From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 08:38:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 08:38:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25234 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 08:38:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25230 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 08:38:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 08:38:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CE0E19A33; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9DC319A17; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E10D619A2D; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FFE319A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0bf494cfae9a7f1d60dc04007a625aa4@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] here documents in functions Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:37:16 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what gives? brahma% fn foo { cat <; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h7VNfmj12165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200308312341.h7VNfmj12165@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] here documents in functions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:37:16 EDT." <0bf494cfae9a7f1d60dc04007a625aa4@sdgm.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:41:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Oh, it has to be after the function body, if I'm not mistaken (which I probably am). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 08:43:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 08:43:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25330 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 08:43:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25326 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 08:43:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 08:43:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C74E519A84; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B5AB19A84; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:43:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 296D0199C0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D680199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] here documents in functions In-Reply-To: <0bf494cfae9a7f1d60dc04007a625aa4@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) /tmp isn't writable? maybe start a ramfs or mount -c /usr/boyd/tmp /tmp From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 08:46:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 08:46:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25441 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 08:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25437 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 08:46:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 08:46:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8B7B19A2D; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43A9C19A72; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:46:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7E4019A77; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F13E5199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7084287831e13885fa10c3622bc078a1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] here documents in functions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ndhdijsakivugvtjfusmdsnuro" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:45:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ndhdijsakivugvtjfusmdsnuro Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take it back, just read the message closer. --upas-ndhdijsakivugvtjfusmdsnuro Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Aug 31 19:43:14 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Aug 31 19:43:12 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F049319A97; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89802199BF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:43:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 296D0199C0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D680199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] here documents in functions In-Reply-To: <0bf494cfae9a7f1d60dc04007a625aa4@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:42:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) /tmp isn't writable? maybe start a ramfs or mount -c /usr/boyd/tmp /tmp --upas-ndhdijsakivugvtjfusmdsnuro-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 08:47:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 08:47:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25470 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 08:47:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25466 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 08:47:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 08:47:14 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C43319AB8; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC1AC199BF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 826F119AA6; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 066DE199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:46:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) 'whatis foo' should give you a clue. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 09:01:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 09:01:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25845 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 09:01:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25841 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 09:01:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 09:01:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0B7819A89; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35E2119AA6; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D58F19A72; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC054199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <490261d06dfa3a2fe0a4631dfa438e34@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] my /tmp Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:00:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% ls -l /tmp --rw------- M 5073 boyd boyd 0 Aug 31 19:53 /tmp/A6818.boydsam --rw-r--r-- M 5073 boyd boyd 0 Aug 31 19:27 /tmp/here18cc.0000 brahma% ls -ld /tmp d-rwxr-xr-x M 5073 boyd boyd 0 Aug 31 19:53 /tmp ahh, but that actually helps, 'cos i won't have a /tmp when my script runs via /mail/box/username/pipeto so i shall stick to echo's. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 09:59:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 09:59:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27770 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 09:59:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27766 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 09:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 09:59:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B84619A96; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4836919A97; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:59:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F319919A72; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60816199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57dbcd0684da6830d1654755467e74ad@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] rc here docs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:58:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is a a horrible bug: brahma% fn foo { cat <; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs In-Reply-To: <57dbcd0684da6830d1654755467e74ad@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-flixkatirbtquqxyirvyphqujq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:05:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-flixkatirbtquqxyirvyphqujq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So what's the fix? For that matter, what should the semantics be? Should it be correct that while scanning a function body, the action of <; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57dbcd0684da6830d1654755467e74ad@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] rc here docs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:58:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is a a horrible bug: brahma% fn foo { cat <; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12984 invoked by uid 991); 1 Sep 2003 01:43:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20030901014301.12983.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to David Presotto message dated "Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:05:37 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:43:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This works correctly (or at least as I expected) in Byron's rc. ; whatis foo fn foo {cat <<<' echo foo '} The `<<<' is a builtin operator, of which the manpage says: Additionally, rc supports ``here strings'', which are like here documents, except that input is taken directly from a string on the command line. Their use is illustrated here: cat <<< 'this is a here string' | wc (This feature enables rc to export functions using here documents into the environment; the author does not expect users to find this feature useful.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 11:24:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 11:24:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30930 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 11:24:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30926 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 11:24:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 11:24:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F195B19AE8; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF8B419AB1; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:24:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D057A19A97; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C57919A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69f5b2e51adfc734027e4cf14ffa8286@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:23:31 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Getting here documents right inside functions and loops and loops inside functions and in the background is tricky. Even Bourne didn't get it right (see BUGS in V7's sh(1)). I think the SVR2 shell (thus the V8 shell) got it mostly right, but I didn't push it hard. There are two main issues to sort out: when to start reading a given here document (and collecting it into a temp file or perhaps into memory nowadays) and when to remove the temp file. This needs to work in the presence of notes too. So consider scripts like this one: fn sigint sigexit { { for (i in 1 2 3) { cat <; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ef339d30bfee33810aa4e1d0c4488af@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:50:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% awk 'END {exit "foo"}' /dev/null ; echo $status brahma% awk 'END {exit 1}' /dev/null ; echo $status awk 8186: 1 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 11:57:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 11:57:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32233 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 11:57:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32229 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 11:57:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 11:57:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E43CA19A92; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D52219AF0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10E3519AAF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4162919A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39512038 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 02:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 02:56:35 -0000 Message-ID: <01d501c37034$9a184d00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <69f5b2e51adfc734027e4cf14ffa8286@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:56:11 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) guess i use here docs 'cos i've written a lotta complex shell scripts. i guess, back with V7, a lotta echo's wouldn't be cheap. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32466 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32462 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:05:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:05:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF82A19AAF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3381C19B34; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:05:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B14119AEC; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 409DB19AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39095767 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 03:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 03:04:18 -0000 Message-ID: <01e301c37035$ae45e660$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030901014301.12983.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:03:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > This works correctly (or at least as I expected) in Byron's rc. i'm drawterm'd to ny and it's plan 9 4th ed. i'm using echo. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32649 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32645 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 147DF19AF0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A50B919B84; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A12DE19B15; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1465519AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:09:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i have this rc script that i want to invoke via pipeto. problem is that i need to know if the auto generated reply is going to come right back at me, filling up dan's proc table. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:11:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:11:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32702 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:11:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32698 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:11:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:11:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66C6A19B67; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF7A619BA8; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:11:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E418D19AF0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2ED7F19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13509 invoked by uid 991); 1 Sep 2003 03:10:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20030901031020.13508.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs In-reply-to: <01e301c37035$ae45e660$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <20030901014301.12983.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <01e301c37035$ae45e660$b9844051@insultant.net> Comments: In-reply-to "boyd, rounin" message dated "Mon, 01 Sep 2003 05:03:55 +0200." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:10:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | > This works correctly (or at least as I expected) in Byron's rc. | | i'm drawterm'd to ny and it's plan 9 4th ed. I heard questions posed about what the right behaviour was, and how to implement it, so I provided an example of what I think is the right answer. | i'm using echo. You might be able to port Byron's shell. :) Did anyone ever get es running under Plan 9? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:15:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:15:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 328 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:15:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 324 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:15:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:15:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A39D719BB5; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A8CA19B3B; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:15:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA85519B6E; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D94B019B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39445701 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 03:14:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 03:14:39 -0000 Message-ID: <020901c37037$2081de40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030901014301.12983.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <01e301c37035$ae45e660$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030901031020.13508.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:14:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You might be able to port Byron's shell. :) hasn't vita already done that with the plethora of shells they have? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:20:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:20:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 456 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:20:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 452 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:20:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:20:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D53B19B9A; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 033E419AA6; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 031C919ACC; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E977F19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3642d6516c1daa93eacc16850ae258e0@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <01d501c37034$9a184d00$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:19:04 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm not suggesting { echo foo; echo bar; echo baz; echo quux } | cmd but rather echo 'foo bar baz quux' | cmd Given one echo command to replace one here document, I don't think the here documents are substantially cheaper than using echo. With echo, you have to load echo from disk (modulo caching) and it writes your message down a pipe. With a here document, the shell writes the here document into a temporary file, then attaches that temporary file as the command's standard input, so the command can read what the shell just wrote, then eventually the shell removes the temporary file; again this is all nominally disk i/o. (To make matters slightly worse, sh did unaligned writes of lengths not a multiple of 512 to the temporary files.) So here documents are not cheap and they do seem to clutter shells with considerable added complexity. I could probably live without them except that bundle uses them, sometimes to transmit large files that might even exceed Plan 9's ability to pass them as command-line arguments. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:34:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:34:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 879 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:34:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 875 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:34:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D268F19A23; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A52F19ACC; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 730A419AC7; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 916C819A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 51495064 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 03:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 03:33:40 -0000 Message-ID: <021a01c37039$c8a4dbc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3642d6516c1daa93eacc16850ae258e0@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:33:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I could probably live without them except that bundle uses them, ... oh i had forgotten about that. bundle is a cool thing. i hate all that tar.gz nonsense; if you have to compress it, well it's too big. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:37:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:37:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 979 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:37:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 975 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:37:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:37:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A7A219BAC; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F9B119BAA; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:37:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 435DE19BAA; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63D0D19AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10681381 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 03:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 03:36:21 -0000 Message-ID: <021f01c3703a$2887ac20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3642d6516c1daa93eacc16850ae258e0@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:35:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > { echo foo; echo bar; echo baz; echo quux } | cmd now it's affordable and it's because more readable i'm using it: { echo Either you''''re a spammer or I don''''t like you or I don''''t know you. echo echo Email me this rejected message with: echo echo ' ' $code echo echo in the Subject: line and I''''ll decide if I''''ll add you to my list echo of people I''''ll accept mail from. } | ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:55:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:55:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1457 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:55:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1453 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:55:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:55:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2EABF19BBE; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB52E19A73; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E7BB19AE1; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D479319A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1dd9823fcf11d59a3bff609689e24807@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vac options In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-navpppyexdysitoagunpjyfeta" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:54:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-navpppyexdysitoagunpjyfeta Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i use both -q and -d in the script to massage emelie's platters onto venti. --upas-navpppyexdysitoagunpjyfeta Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Aug 30 13:55:41 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Aug 30 13:55:39 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7229B19A72; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7A6E19B6D; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:55:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E79B19A00; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C729319981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] vac options Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:53:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'm cleaning up vac's options and will probably drop a few and provide new ways to access the functionality of some others. if you use vac with any of -d, -e, -i, -m, -q, please mail me so i don't drop your favorite option. --upas-navpppyexdysitoagunpjyfeta-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 12:57:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 12:57:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1510 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 12:57:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1505 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 12:57:15 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 12:57:15 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 252DE19BC4; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 259EE19BAE; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:57:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A09FC19AEE; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21ABE19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vac options In-Reply-To: <1dd9823fcf11d59a3bff609689e24807@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:56:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) sorry, i meant that as mail directly to rsc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 14:32:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 14:32:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7313 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 14:32:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7309 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 14:32:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 14:32:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C53E19A64; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9179419A03; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:32:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBF2F199F6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5FE419A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h815Uquj017403 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:30:52 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h815UpU6017399 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:30:52 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs In-Reply-To: <021f01c3703a$2887ac20$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:30:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) have you looked at this: http://tmda.sourceforge.net/ it has the same feel to it as yours does (judging from the little snippet below), even though it's considerably larger and more complex (but can be fooled by the latest '6 degrees of freedom' viruses, just like your filter can)... an added bonus -- it's being used by the FSF for @gnu.org addresses :) and another bonus -- it's written in python, so it could just work in Plan 9. andrey On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > { echo foo; echo bar; echo baz; echo quux } | cmd > > now it's affordable and it's because more readable i'm using it: > > { > echo Either you''''re a spammer or I don''''t like you or I don''''t know > you. > echo > echo Email me this rejected message with: > echo > echo ' ' $code > echo > echo in the Subject: line and I''''ll decide if I''''ll add you to my list > echo of people I''''ll accept mail from. > } | ... > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 14:38:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 14:38:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7777 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 14:38:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7773 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 14:38:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 14:38:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA06419B8E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA6FF19B15; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47F1619A03; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-09.noos.net [212.198.2.80]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69CCA19AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 115930252 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.80 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 05:37:21 -0000 Message-ID: <028701c3704b$0fcc2100$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:36:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > have you looked at this: > > http://tmda.sourceforge.net/ thanks, but no. i can't stand sourcefarce (sic) and the lunix zealots. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 15:07:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 15:07:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9802 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 15:07:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9798 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 15:07:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 15:07:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F234819BC5; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3C3C19BBF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:07:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1648719AEA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7322219A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c646c5b21690799f0fca14e5be647f8@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] mail pipeto Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:06:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) from the manual (and from various tests): Its two arguments are the with arguments of the destination address (e.g. local!gremlin) and the user's mail box path (e.g. /mail/box/gremlin/mbox) which is at odds with filter. i just can't see the point of handing up the destination address. isn't the point to know who it's from? Filter provides simple mail filtering. The first two argu- ments are the recipient's address and mailbox, that is, the same arguments provided to pipeto. btw: i found out more interesting things about here docs; you had better run ramfs _very_ early on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 15:54:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 15:54:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12934 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 15:54:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12917 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 15:54:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 15:54:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA639199C0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AB7719AE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:54:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3C3E19AE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62D26199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3381560b738bad93d88313be8da02a3e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <020901c37037$2081de40$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cdlakuvmdepvfqvclqnuoojhom" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:48:02 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cdlakuvmdepvfqvclqnuoojhom Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we kept mash in case people were using it, but we do everything (or at least roger does) with sh. arguably they are all still too complicated. --upas-cdlakuvmdepvfqvclqnuoojhom Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19tfA2-0001Td-7c; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:15:22 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19tfA2-0001Td-7c for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:15:22 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A39D719BB5; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A8CA19B3B; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:15:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA85519B6E; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D94B019B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39445701 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2003 03:14:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 1 Sep 2003 03:14:39 -0000 Message-ID: <020901c37037$2081de40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030901014301.12983.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> <01e301c37035$ae45e660$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030901031020.13508.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:14:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You might be able to port Byron's shell. :) hasn't vita already done that with the plethora of shells they have? --upas-cdlakuvmdepvfqvclqnuoojhom-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 16:08:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 16:08:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13572 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 16:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13568 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 16:08:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 16:08:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A4B919BCF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 03:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C76719BC1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 03:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E0E819AFD; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 03:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD36B199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 03:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? In-Reply-To: <1ef339d30bfee33810aa4e1d0c4488af@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qxrxqtovldrnartipcitophyzd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:01:52 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qxrxqtovldrnartipcitophyzd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit same reason as this, i suspect: awk 'END {print 1 * "hello"}' /dev/null 0 the rules aren't really given in the manual page except perhaps by implication in the BUGS, but in a context where a number is expected (operand of arithmetic operator) the string is converted to a number, and "hello" or "foo" are both zero, but "5hello" is 5. exit takes an expression but doesn't say whether it's integer or string (but it's integer, as usual on Unix). --upas-qxrxqtovldrnartipcitophyzd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19tems-0004U3-4d; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 02:51:26 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19tems-0004U3-4d for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 02:51:26 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D14F19A87; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E193519A87; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:51:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34D6719A97; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B9BD19A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ef339d30bfee33810aa4e1d0c4488af@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:50:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% awk 'END {exit "foo"}' /dev/null ; echo $status brahma% awk 'END {exit 1}' /dev/null ; echo $status awk 8186: 1 --upas-qxrxqtovldrnartipcitophyzd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 17:42:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 17:42:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17107 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 17:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17103 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 17:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 17:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C05B19B04; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B442619BC1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:42:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7514619AEE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B59C19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19tkAl-0006Pt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:36:27 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3642d6516c1daa93eacc16850ae258e0@collyer.net>, <021a01c37039$c8a4dbc0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:36:22 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: > i hate all that tar.gz nonsense; if you have to compress it, well it's too big. A lot of software systems worth going to the trouble of porting are inherently pretty large, and the compression helps a lot for folks who are stuck with dial-up modem access. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 18:32:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 18:32:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18948 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 18:32:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18944 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 18:32:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 18:32:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F279519B59; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D22EC19AEE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:32:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2391199F2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EF9819AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <978de7791c51fc8896935ee235531c3c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie Keyboard Map Question From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <01dc01c368ed$48cdf1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ergsbjumpuebqwlcmrmqwdmlpn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:31:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ergsbjumpuebqwlcmrmqwdmlpn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the alternate kbd driver with maps is at sources under /nemo. Just pull or copy the files that change and recompile your kernel. If you need help, drop me a line. I've been offline for a whole month and the source in /n/sources/nemo may be old; I'll check that. --upas-ergsbjumpuebqwlcmrmqwdmlpn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Aug 22 22:40:32 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1766219B7C; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDBDD19A0B; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75D3C19A87; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91DF8199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <245496-17124>; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:38:25 -0400 Message-ID: <01dc01c368ed$48cdf1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F46E887.1030509@myrealbox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie Keyboard Map Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:37:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) been there, done that. j'en ai marre ... i think nemo did some stuff with it: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es i did some 3rd Ed stuff with it, but ... it's on a cd somewhere. the other problem is that the 9p2000 changed the dev interface, so _if_ i find it, it's still some work. brucee said it best: http://www.chunder.com/2001/paris ah fuck it, let me look at my CDs ... --upas-ergsbjumpuebqwlcmrmqwdmlpn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 18:58:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 18:58:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19867 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 18:58:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19863 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 18:58:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 18:58:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F30B319B43; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 614E219AC0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:58:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BC5B19A73; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED6D19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3c610490376b5bf51be16250c39085ac@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie Keyboard Map Question From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <978de7791c51fc8896935ee235531c3c@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:58:32 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've been offline for a whole month because Europe was too hot this summer? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 19:55:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 19:55:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21042 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 19:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21038 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 19:55:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 19:55:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5ED0019AFA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEE0B19AAB; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 451D419A9E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1339199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:54:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I'am trying to get APM to work on my desktop machine so I can get it to shutdown after doing a backup each night. I have added 'apm0=' to my plan9.ini but get a message along the lines of: warning: did not change apm0-ax=f000 ... in plan9.ini on boot. The '#P/apm' device does not appear either with or without the 'apm0=' line in plan9.ini Have I missed somthing? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 19:59:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 19:59:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21169 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 19:59:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21165 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 19:59:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 19:59:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D48CE19AC1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE29519A82; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:59:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A15019AC1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36444199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a36842f7c82dff0b467fbbcc03c8916@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:58:15 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you include #P in the kernel? I know it's a silly question... --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 1 12:55:26 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 218D219AC0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEE0B19AAB; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 451D419A9E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1339199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:54:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I'am trying to get APM to work on my desktop machine so I can get it to shutdown after doing a backup each night. I have added 'apm0=' to my plan9.ini but get a message along the lines of: warning: did not change apm0-ax=f000 ... in plan9.ini on boot. The '#P/apm' device does not appear either with or without the 'apm0=' line in plan9.ini Have I missed somthing? -Steve --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 21:49:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 21:49:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23573 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 21:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23569 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 21:49:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 21:49:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21B8A19AEE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22C7B19A98; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A503B19A9D; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5293E19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spam filtering fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:48:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I'am starting to think about a spam filtering again. I plan to use Paul Grahams ideas plus the changes sugested by Gary Robinson; Basicially a Naive Baiesian classifier. I think its best to implement it as a filesystem which overlays upas/fs which is transparent to valid email but opaque to spam, this meanst the token frequency database remains in RAM, not having to be reloaded to test each new email. In order for the filter to learn the user must be able to classify the few spams that slip through, so I propose to wstat() emails to zero length before deletion if they are spam and simply delete them if they are valid. In the longer term I have some ideas about fingerprinting attached images, adding tokens for "is html email", "has MS screen-saver attached" etc. Anyone any opinions on this approach? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 22:00:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 22:00:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23958 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 22:00:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23954 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 22:00:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 22:00:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78C4019B3C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B20A119A2F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:00:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94B3319A2F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67FCC19A98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9b775967f417d90cc227a95f458c1f57@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... In-Reply-To: <2878870179@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pfrtoxtexpwoyvpubvrbruhubt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:58:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pfrtoxtexpwoyvpubvrbruhubt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'am using the kernel as distributed by the labs and /sys/src/9/pc/pcdisk has an entry of the form: apm apmjunk which _I think_ answers your question, "yes I have", but perhaps there is another incantation to make it work. Its a pain as I have been through this before, apm works beautifully on my laptop, but thats at home... -Steve --upas-pfrtoxtexpwoyvpubvrbruhubt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:58:15 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... Message-Id: <2878870179@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj" Content-Id: <2878870179-1@snellwilcox.com> --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <2878870179-2@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline did you include #P in the kernel? I know it's a silly question...= --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj Content-Id: <2878870179-3@snellwilcox.com> Content-Type: message/RFC822; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 1 12:55:26 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 218D219AC0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEE0B19AAB; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 451D419A9E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1339199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:54:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I'am trying to get APM to work on my desktop machine so I can get it to shutdown after doing a backup each night. I have added 'apm0=' to my plan9.ini but get a message along the lines of: warning: did not change apm0-ax=f000 ... in plan9.ini on boot. The '#P/apm' device does not appear either with or without the 'apm0=' line in plan9.ini Have I missed somthing? -Steve --upas-tonenywkbvdyedjsnavpayaehj-- --upas-pfrtoxtexpwoyvpubvrbruhubt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 22:56:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 22:56:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25155 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 22:56:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25151 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 22:56:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 22:56:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAA3319AD1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DABE199D5; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:56:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3E40199FE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBFB3199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <06d2d0989ee04938acc6ac0bfc0a6ecb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:54:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If you run upas/fs over the mail message in your pipetp, you can get at any of the fields. For example: #!/bin/rc # create a /tmp for here documents rfork en bind -c /mail/tmp /tmp RECIP=$1 MBOX=$2 PF=/mail/box/$USER/_pattern TMP=/mail/tmp/mine.$pid BIN=/bin/upas D=/mail/fs/mbox/1 # save and parse the mail file {sed '/^$/,$ s/^From / From /'; echo} > $TMP upas/fs -f $TMP # accept anything sent to license-discuss if( grep -si license-discuss@opensource.org $D/to || grep -si license-discuss@opensource.org $D/cc || grep -si license-discuss@opensource.org $D/from ) { $BIN/deliver $RECIP $D/from $MBOX < $D/raw rv=$status rm $TMP exit $rv } # throw out anything from boyd at his non insultant address if( grep -si 'boyd@(.*\.)?sdgm.net' $D/from ) { $BIN/deliver $RECIP $D/from $MBOX.bounced < $D/raw rv=$status rm $TMP exit $rv } # dump it if the sender is spoofing me if( grep -si '^x-warning: suspect .* domain$' $D/rawheader && grep $USER $D/from) { $BIN/deliver $RECIP $D/from $MBOX.bounced < $D/raw rv=$status rm $TMP exit $rv } ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:09:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:09:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25328 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:09:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25324 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:09:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:09:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08D1D19B18; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BC2919B11; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:09:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FE9A19AE9; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A213519A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:08:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And, by the way, filter looks through the message to get the sender address. You pass it the recipient's address on the command line because that is often different from anything found in the mail message (because of redirection, blank copies, ...). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25383 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:11:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25379 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:11:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:11:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3646D19AAC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE20819B12; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11A2419A20; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 411FF19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <330067-31476>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:53:58 -0400 Message-ID: <02d901c37090$6f9d7ee0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:53:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think awk should be able to exit with a string like everything else does/should with exits(). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:18:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:18:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25632 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:18:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25628 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:18:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:18:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 245C619BD9; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A368419BBA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:18:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A4BD19B7F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BF6719B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b7ff40e59acfd34ede485505064c34a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cenawdsonvhmkmkxrynqzyjouy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:16:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cenawdsonvhmkmkxrynqzyjouy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd prefer a plain filter that could be called form pipeto, and regarding training, I'd prefer to be able to use a different program, say, upas/spam -y ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spam filtering fs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:48:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I'am starting to think about a spam filtering again. I plan to use Paul Grahams ideas plus the changes sugested by Gary Robinson; Basicially a Naive Baiesian classifier. I think its best to implement it as a filesystem which overlays upas/fs which is transparent to valid email but opaque to spam, this meanst the token frequency database remains in RAM, not having to be reloaded to test each new email. In order for the filter to learn the user must be able to classify the few spams that slip through, so I propose to wstat() emails to zero length before deletion if they are spam and simply delete them if they are valid. In the longer term I have some ideas about fingerprinting attached images, adding tokens for "is html email", "has MS screen-saver attached" etc. Anyone any opinions on this approach? -Steve --upas-cenawdsonvhmkmkxrynqzyjouy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:20:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:20:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25682 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:20:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25678 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:20:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:20:18 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61B1319BCC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9625919BD3; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37EAE19BD0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABB0D19B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <2b7ff40e59acfd34ede485505064c34a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:19:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rsc already wrote and is using a bayesian filter via pipeto. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:22:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:22:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25714 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:22:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25710 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:22:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:22:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A515F19BDD; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4F519BD7; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:22:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7208619BD0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83A5219B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38b2c2e8a9b690e8090f26c0e202bc1b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] warning did not change apm0=ax=f000... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:21:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) BTW, I reread your mail, and if you just want to shutdown the machine you only need /dev/console. regarding your apm problem, if you had apm enabled in the bios and the driver in place, I don't know what the problem can be. Does the message show up before loading the kernel or after? If it's before, it's a 9load problem. If it's after, the apm driver might be the place to look at. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25741 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:24:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25737 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:24:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:24:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80A4819AF6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3258D19BE2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:24:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 599FC19BE0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82E6519AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <333990-25794>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:22:56 -0400 Message-ID: <032a01c37094$7b6b34c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:22:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > And, by the way, filter looks through the message to get the > sender address. i see. i wanted to avoid messages in /tmp and 822 parsing. i shall have to think about it. perhaps i should write a tool (i already have the code) to pick the headers apart, although i'm loathed to do it. upas/fs looks interesting. thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:27:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:27:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25796 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:27:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25792 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:27:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:27:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9CD019BDB; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB9519B25; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:27:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDB4D19B16; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BB2A19AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7429a9014e2c8d6af4fa3aff15350193@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mail In-Reply-To: <032a01c37094$7b6b34c0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) upas/fs is just a tool to pick the headers apart. I started thinking of doing a special header tool also and then realized that I'ld already written it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:31:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:31:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25890 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25886 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45E3219BED; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 299CC19BE4; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:31:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C168319BA1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BA9719B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00197 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h81EULj15331 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309011430.h81EULj15331@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:19:10 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:30:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > rsc already wrote and is using a bayesian filter via pipeto. Is it in the distribution? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25984 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25980 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:36:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:36:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9A0719B16; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3504E19B16; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:36:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA5F619BE4; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 367AC19B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2502cdfa926ced83671c86257562fa06@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] apm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:35:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The warning makes it sound like your line in plan9.ini says apm0=ax=f000 ... when it should just say apm0= Could you double check that? Also, the kernel config line should be apm apmjump not apm apmjunk though the latter is probably a better description. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:38:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:38:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26008 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:38:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26004 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:38:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:38:18 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BD6719BF9; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92C0C19BE7; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2754419B14; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C90319BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88fd25c4b29b0d3dcf8b2629d0259786@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <758707399@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:36:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The problem with the "upas/spam -y ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <583829-13440>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:18 -0400 Message-ID: <035501c37096$a0ee8f60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7429a9014e2c8d6af4fa3aff15350193@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:37:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) my case is a bit special is that i receive very little mail at sdgm.net which _isn't_ spam. i don't like the idea of filters, like spamassassin. oh cool: beavis and butthead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:42:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:42:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26099 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26095 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6961D19BFC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5AB819B13; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:42:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 102D819BD6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A716B19B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <04748aeba9f1d96bbf44451f8c131ef2@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <88fd25c4b29b0d3dcf8b2629d0259786@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zxtteezptalanqztdzjkzdsalj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:41:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zxtteezptalanqztdzjkzdsalj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could assume that all mails that have not classified as spam, are not spam. I could then simply define a `S' script and run it from acme to let you know which ones are spam. But if rsc has one already done, we'd better use his interface as is. --upas-zxtteezptalanqztdzjkzdsalj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 1 16:38:20 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C314119BF6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92C0C19BE7; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2754419B14; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C90319BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88fd25c4b29b0d3dcf8b2629d0259786@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <758707399@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:36:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The problem with the "upas/spam -y ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] white listing via upas/token Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:45:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Boyd, if you want to build a white list, all the mechanism is in /mail/lib/pipeto.lib already. Here's an example where bad mail gets spooled in another box _held, and then an example where it gets bounced back for a challenge-response. Russ g% cat pipeto.hold #!/bin/rc USER=rsc KEY=9fans-choate MAILTO=rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com # set up standard environment . /mail/lib/pipeto.lib $* # check against filter patterns filterstatus=`{tokenfilter $TMP.msg} switch($filterstatus){ case !match log dropped $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} # spool /mail/box/$USER/_dropped exit 0 case new log held $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} spool /mail/box/$USER/_held exit 0 case match token if(~ $filterstatus token) log added $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} spool $MBOX listupdate case * log unknown filter status $filterstatus spool $MBOX exit 'unknown filter status' } exit '' g% cat pipeto.token #!/bin/rc USER=rsc KEY=9fans-choate MAILTO=rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com # set up standard environment . /mail/lib/pipeto.lib $* # check against filter patterns filterstatus=`{tokenfilter $TMP.msg} switch($filterstatus){ case !match log dropped $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} # spool /mail/box/$USER/_dropped exit 0 case new log bounced $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} tokenreply # spool /mail/box/$USER/_token exit 0 case match token if(~ $filterstatus token) log added $RECIP From `{cat $D/replyto} spool $MBOX listupdate case * log unknown filter status $filterstatus spool $MBOX exit 'unknown filter status' } exit '' g% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:51:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:51:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26345 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:51:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26341 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:51:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E263519B13; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 126B919C05; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:51:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB59219BD1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2218C19B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <583822-13443>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:49:59 -0400 Message-ID: <037601c37098$424eb460$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <04748aeba9f1d96bbf44451f8c131ef2@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:49:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You could assume that all mails that have not classified as spam, are not > spam. I could then simply define a `S' script and run it from acme to > let you know which ones are spam. i used to do something like that on lunix: http://www.insultant.net/repo/dws.html i _cannot_ use acme. it's just not for me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26445 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:54:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26441 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:54:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:54:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E56EC19C0F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5447919C0C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:54:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2DB819C07; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0721A19BFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bayesian spam filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:53:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've spent a few days here and there working on it, and it's easy to get something half-decent but hard to get something that's really quite good. If you're interested in what I've done already, I just packaged up all the pieces (I think) and put them in /n/sources/extra/spam.tar.gz. See /n/sources/extra/spam.notes for the list of files I included as well as a note about how to use it that I wrote but never circulated. I think my stuff is close -- the biggest wart is that it uses Berkeley DB to store the frequency tables. I think that might be necessary, but I'm not really sure. Tokenization is hard. Msgcat does a reasonable job. I've actually been using Mozilla Thunderbird to process my mail mostly (though I'm typing this in nedmail). The one feature it has that I really like is the spam handling. It could be better in some ways, but the spam interface is much better than what I built. When mail comes in, it's automatically flagged as spam or not. You can then correct its mistakes (if any) by just clicking on lines in the message listing. Then once you're happy you click "Delete Mail Marked as Junk" and away they go. If acme and nedmail had a way way to select disjoint sets of messages, I think that would help a lot. I've found that although Thunderbird's filtering is not as accurate as what I built, the interface makes up for it. Notice I said process, not read. I still read with nedmail and Mail, at least when I'm in Plan 9, but to do things like kill off the spam and manage lots of different mail boxes, the external mail readers seem like a big win. Sad but true. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 1 23:55:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 1 23:55:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26461 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Sep 2003 23:55:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26457 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 23:55:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 23:55:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DADFF19C18; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C10C19C0C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 462E819C17; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ACDC19C15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spamoff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:54:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) #!/bin/rc # spamoff addr mbox # set user to be you user=boyd mdir=/usr/$user/lib/mail # somewhere to put the below allow=$mdir/allow # addr's you'll accept mail from audit=$mdir/audit # audit trail errors=$mdir/errors # error log myname=`{basename $0} { echo $myname $* cat /dev/user echo lc /env pwd ls -l ls -l /tmp echo } > $audit fn err { echo $myname: $* > $errors exit $"* } fn match { addr=$1 awk -v 'addr='$addr ' BEGIN { addr=tolower(addr) # 822 addresses are case insensitive e = 1 } tolower($0) == addr { e=0 exit } END { exit e } ' $allow } fn bitch { addr=$1 mbox=$2 if (match $addr) { cat > $mbox exit } code=`{echo $myname$user$pid | md5sum} echo $code # apart from the rc here document bug we probably don't have a /tmp { echo Either you''''re a spammer or I don''''t like you or I don''''t know you. echo echo Email me this rejected message with: echo echo ' '$code echo echo in the Subject: line and I''''ll decide if I''''ll add you to my list echo of people I''''ll accept mail from. } | cat /fd/0 > $audit err rejected mail from $addr $code } #if (! test -w $errors -a -A $errors -a -L $errors) { if (! test -w $errors -a -A $errors) { exit $myname:' '$errors:' existance/mode/permission problem' } if (! test -r $allow) { err $allow:' existance/permission problem' } switch ($#*) { case 0 err no args case 1 err args: $* case 2 bitch $* case * err args: $* } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 00:31:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 00:31:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27259 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 00:31:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27255 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 00:31:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 00:31:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9757119B0F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD4581998C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD02319ACE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4C3A19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:31:16 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) in light of recent forged To: & From: the challenge/response method is going to generate twice as much traffic for such a mail. As far as I can tell, without trying it, the example pipeto sends a copy of the message, virus payload and all to whoever the From: headers suggest, obviating the need to infect the plan9 host to spread itself. You also run the risk of ending up sending to an infected host and throwing your email address into another steaming pot. The next generation will snarf text from existing mails with the intention of defeating Bayes type filters. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 00:46:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 00:46:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27485 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 00:46:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27481 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 00:46:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 00:46:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A73319C0C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A141319ADC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:46:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BA141998C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 375E019BD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5019caffe3f10e82a2ee6ccadc5f1733@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <1270037699@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-idlufgsmkpbrqkempqehjvzxlp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:45:33 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-idlufgsmkpbrqkempqehjvzxlp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Markov chains are the next generation of spam filtering tools (some of the GPLed tools already do this). It involves keeping frequencies for token sequences rather than just individual tokens. It makes the spammers job a lot harder, though not impossible. The downside is the increase in filters database size as the number of tokens increases exponentially with chain length. It all comes down to making the filters model of written emails have more parameters and being more accurate than the spammers until in the limit the spam email looks like a valid one (IE. it contains usefull information :-) -Steve --upas-idlufgsmkpbrqkempqehjvzxlp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:31:16 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-Id: <1270037699@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <1270037699-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in light of recent forged To: & From: the challenge/response method is going to generate twice as much traffic fo= r such a mail. As far as I can tell, without trying it, the example pipeto sends a copy of= the message, virus payload and all to whoever the From: headers suggest, o= bviating the need to infect the plan9 host to spread itself. You also run the risk of ending up sending to an infected host and throwing= your email address into another steaming pot. The next generation will snarf text from existing mails with the intention = of defeating Bayes type filters. --upas-idlufgsmkpbrqkempqehjvzxlp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 02:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 02:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29585 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 02:36:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29581 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 02:36:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 02:36:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D31719AB2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D261119BE5; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:36:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 903D619BD8; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CA66B19AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by magnum.cooper.edu id AA18236 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu); Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:41:09 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? In-Reply-To: <02d901c37090$6f9d7ee0$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > i think awk should be able to exit with a string like everything > else does/should with exits(). > Taking the original example: >brahma% awk 'END {exit "foo"}' /dev/null ; echo $status > >brahma% awk 'END {exit 1}' /dev/null ; echo $status >awk 8186: 1 I would guess that awk *is* using exits() but first exit converts is arg to a number (if necessary), presumably for compatability w/ unix awk, then converts the num to a string which gets sent to exits(). Ugh. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 02:37:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 02:37:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29652 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 02:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29648 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 02:37:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 02:37:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0817919C02; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19CD219ADC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D34619BD8; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6E0019C15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 738603 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:49:53 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <02d901c37090$6f9d7ee0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:35:47 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i think awk should be able to exit with a string like everything > else does/should with exits(). it's ported from and maintained as a posix program; it calls exit. regex wasn't kept compatible, though, so i suppose exit could go too, but it seems not worth the trouble. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 02:38:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 02:38:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29659 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 02:38:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29655 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 02:38:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 02:38:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D14119C1E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F71819C15; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 502BF19BE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADAD619ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19898 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h81Hbaj15986 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309011737.h81Hbaj15986@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:41:09 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:37:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) That's right. Awk was brought in under the ape, and so doesn't really do exits.... - Dan C. 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--upas-reatpvzcqfrqdyamuuviqzameo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Sep 1 14:47:32 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Sep 1 14:47:30 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DF1319AE3; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC03F19B00; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E733719AEC; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6ABB19AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:47:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi, here's my face hget http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/matt.h.1 | page thanks for looking at me m --upas-reatpvzcqfrqdyamuuviqzameo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 04:25:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 04:25:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31512 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 04:25:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31508 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:25:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:25:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0ADCF19ACA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63D6A19B6E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:25:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 025FD19B22; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22DB919ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h81JOIte007196 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:24:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyone have a picture of them selves in utero? With beard or without? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 04:35:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 04:35:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31641 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 04:35:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31637 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 04:35:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 04:35:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AC7019BE5; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D86119BE2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:35:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF8A619BE6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 77DE719BD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17507 invoked by uid 991); 1 Sep 2003 19:34:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20030901193432.17506.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] in utero? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 1 Sep 2003 15:34:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) So now I'm picturing glenda in the "star baby" scene from 2001. 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Visit our site: http://www.dealsbytheminute.biz/gv/m2c.php?man=st4gv To be removed: http://www.dealsbytheminute.biz/bek/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 07:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 07:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2797 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 07:55:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2793 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 07:55:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 07:55:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5466219C00; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBE6219B1F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 613FA19BBF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7348B19AD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d16e0df5898cadc83f0e6820822dcf3@yourdomain.dom> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:55:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I wasn't content with binding because that meant potentially keeping two sets of .dict files in sync So I've added an extra routine to facedb.c so that it looks in /usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x* before it looks in /lib/face I'm not sure of the best way to post it so it's here : http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/facedb.c From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 09:40:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 09:40:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7544 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 09:40:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7540 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 09:40:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 09:40:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D53B119B29; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E49A19AC0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 716D819AAA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DD0719A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <583986-13440>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:39:18 -0400 Message-ID: <03c701c370ea$959f2940$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:38:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it's ported from and maintained as a posix program; it calls exit. > regex wasn't kept compatible, though, so i suppose exit could > go too, but it seems not worth the trouble. i 'call bullshit on dat'. this plan 9 and we have exits(2). i'll fix it if someone will apply it to the source tree. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 09:44:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 09:44:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7954 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 09:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7950 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 09:44:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 09:44:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2A0D19AC0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18E5819AF3; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:44:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9F4C19AA4; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 052EB19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <337298-31469>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:43:05 -0400 Message-ID: <03eb01c370eb$1cdd5a80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:42:38 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyone have a picture of them selves in utero? no, but i do have some 12MHz scans from last week. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 10:44:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 10:44:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11919 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 10:44:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11915 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 10:44:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 10:44:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F6731998C; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25E9119A98; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:44:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FBEC19AA2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B1531998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821hJvC017488 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:43:19 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821hINY006715 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:43:18 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821hIVU009148 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:43:18 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <5019caffe3f10e82a2ee6ccadc5f1733@yourdomain.dom> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:43:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what if we chuck smtp altogether? no matter how you cut it, the problem originates with smtp and its dependence on the kindness of strangers. That was all fine back in The Good Old Days, but it really sucks now. Could we set up a mail protocol that requires something like this: import somewhere /mail /mail then open files in there and write to them. Maybe just one file, called 'mailto' or some such. The fact that you can import means that you have gotten inside a trust boundary. You'll have a verifiable trace of who wrote what when. If you're filtering messages after you get them, it's already too late -- they've wasted your disk space and your net bandwidth. The numbers for ISPs are depressing, in that most of their net bandwidth is SPAM-width. Obviously you've got to have hosts that span multiple trust boundaries. Maybe that's too easy to get around. Also, this removes the ability of someone you don't know to send you mail, but I'm about ready to give that up, as most of the people I don't know who send me mail now want my bank account numbers or want to send me a ruler. But this business of spam filtering sounds like negotiations with burglars after they are inside your living room and packing up your DVD collection. Just wondering. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 10:56:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 10:56:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12533 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 10:56:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12528 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 10:56:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 10:56:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C83BA199E1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA18119B00; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:56:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A82019AC4; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79F30199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <459928-13850>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:53:46 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c370f4$fc4f6a60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 03:53:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > But this business of spam filtering sounds like negotiations with burglars > after they are inside your living room and packing up your DVD collection. yup, shoot the fuckers ;) 9x19 124 grain FMJ. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 10:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 10:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12614 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 10:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12610 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 10:59:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 10:59:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBC6319B6E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D27119B00; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:59:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35A1419B1F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C44019B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821wIvC018061 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:58:18 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821wIrn024704 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:58:18 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h821wIVU009465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:58:18 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <000901c370f4$fc4f6a60$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:58:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > But this business of spam filtering sounds like negotiations with burglars > > after they are inside your living room and packing up your DVD collection. > > yup, shoot the fuckers ;) 9x19 124 grain FMJ. I was hoping somebody would mention that option, it's probably still legal here in NM. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 11:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 11:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12729 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 11:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12725 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 11:02:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 11:02:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D70F119B2E; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:02:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 904F719B00; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:02:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF5FC19B33; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF5D0199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <341474-13847>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:01:21 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c370f6$0c3b8980$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:00:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > what if we chuck smtp altogether? i like SMTP. it's 822 that makes it a nightmare. i'd chuck it, but ESMTP with challenge/response would be an easy hack. but the real problem is that nobody wants to do security right. been to a US airport lately? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 11:05:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 11:05:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13164 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 11:05:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13160 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 11:05:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 11:05:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAED119BDA; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CF9019A01; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EB8C199FE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E80519A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8224lte000518 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:04:46 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I was hoping somebody would mention that option, it's probably still legal > here in NM. And Iraq. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 11:14:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 11:14:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13860 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 11:14:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13856 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 11:14:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 11:14:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B0E219BF3; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1432519BDE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:14:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B639219A86; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D70D719BC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <584011-13435>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:13:15 -0400 Message-ID: <002a01c370f7$b4fb31a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:12:48 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I was hoping somebody would mention that option, it's probably still legal > here in NM. 3 months, after they've done the rounds of the psych hospitals i'll be able to buy another M9 [beretta 92FS]: http://www.insultant.net/tools From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 11:17:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 11:17:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14026 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 11:17:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14022 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 11:17:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 11:17:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3293319BE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEEC719BEE; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:17:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79C0D19BE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1A8419B9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <336181-22052>; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: <003201c370f8$1be81220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:15:40 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > And Iraq. well i'd dump my M16-A2 and my M4 and get me an MP5-A[35]. and wear level III armor all the time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 15:44:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 15:44:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2301 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 15:44:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2297 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 15:44:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 15:44:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BC7E19B4C; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9606419B39; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:44:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1112619A9D; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1E4D19B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d10d4601b2555c003456d50a0547f8a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <4d16e0df5898cadc83f0e6820822dcf3@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:44:39 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > So I've added an extra routine to facedb.c so that it looks in >/usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x* before it looks in /lib/face By the way, is there anyway to make some portion of the user's file avoid from writing to venti, such those private or secret portrait of someone. ☺ Of course, this should be set by that user, not system administrator. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 21:25:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 21:25:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16424 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 21:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16420 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 21:25:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 21:25:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58E5A19B0B; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48E5B19A8C; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:25:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CCFE19A9B; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 084E819A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5e5f627b9ea3c5ea4b30d69ea2d0e99c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /usr/$user/lib/face in facedb.c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:24:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matt's changes have been added to sources. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 22:57:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 22:57:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18779 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 22:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18775 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 22:57:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 22:57:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 271DC19B0E; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6B5B19AE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8F9519A7F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 133FC19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:56:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Another way of achieving authentication for email is to implement and use S/MIME or PGP. I'm not sure either that or "import ... /mail" solves the computational cost of spam if the bad guys create invalid signatures, but it does make a white-list filter more effective. Any volunteers to implement S/MIME for Plan 9? A couple of us here at Bell Labs have worked on it off and on, but there aren't enough free hands here to get it done promptly. Step one is to implement CMS (also known as PKCS#7 or rfc2315) starting from the ASN.1 goo in /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c or, if you prefer, by porting an ASN.1 compiler. By the way, I've happily used PGP for many years but decided that S/MIME was more likely to catch on because it is already moderately well supported by default in Outlook and Netscape/Mozilla. Eric From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19486 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:17:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19482 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:17:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:17:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 875F119AFE; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3F3E19ADB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:17:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57B7C19AE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FA8B19AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 10:16:21 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([18.24.6.184]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 10:16:20 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F54A631.4090301@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face References: <5d10d4601b2555c003456d50a0547f8a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <5d10d4601b2555c003456d50a0547f8a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:16:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: >>So I've added an extra routine to facedb.c so that it looks in >>/usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x* before it looks in /lib/face >> >> > >By the way, is there anyway to make some portion of the user's file > avoid from writing to venti, such those private or secret portrait >of someone. ☺ Of course, this should be set by that user, not >system administrator. > > Put them on a different file server and bind them into your name space in your profile. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20659 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20655 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:49:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:49:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 774A719B30; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11F1319AEA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77F9719AE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C699C19A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e1325479927d8bc9af31de6553e031e@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, /usr/matt/9fans@yourdomain.dom From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:49:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>By the way, is there anyway to make some portion of the user's file >> avoid from writing to venti, such those private or secret portrait >>of someone. ☺ Of course, this should be set by that user, not >>system administrator. >> >> > > Put them on a different file server and bind them into your name space > in your profile. You could even write a script to download them from a web page and build your lib/face in a ramfs You can also choose to get rid of the a/ b/ c/ d/ ... z/ folders, facesdb doesn't care about the directory names. It does a linear search through the .dict and then walks to $dir/$face so in .dict proweb.co.uk/matt 9fans/matt.1 works just fine then you can bind -bc /n/ftp/secret_faces/9fans /usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x8/9fans and keep a secret matt.1 on your ftp place From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:50:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:50:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20682 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:50:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20678 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:50:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:50:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9E2919B3E; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DF8F19AEA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9B2619B06; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD78419AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8844596bb3afbdda7cc7ba46226170df@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:50:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>By the way, is there anyway to make some portion of the user's file >> avoid from writing to venti, such those private or secret portrait >>of someone. ☺ Of course, this should be set by that user, not >>system administrator. >> >> > > Put them on a different file server and bind them into your name space > in your profile. You could even write a script to download them from a web page and build your lib/face in a ramfs You can also choose to get rid of the a/ b/ c/ d/ ... z/ folders, facesdb doesn't care about the directory names. It does a linear search through the .dict and then walks to $dir/$face so in .dict proweb.co.uk/matt 9fans/matt.1 works just fine then you can bind -bc /n/ftp/secret_faces/9fans /usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x8/9fans and keep a secret matt.1 on your ftp place From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:50:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:50:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20690 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:50:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20686 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:50:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:50:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C38B19AE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A717D19B3A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7296619B31; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F16819AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <331576-17761>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <01a101c37161$41d5c180$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5d10d4601b2555c003456d50a0547f8a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:48:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > So I've added an extra routine to facedb.c so that it looks in >/usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x* before it looks in /lib/face isn't that what bind is for? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:55:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:55:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20824 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:55:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20820 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:55:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:55:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4879C19B36; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3D3619AC2; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D29019B06; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 427B419AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face In-Reply-To: <01a101c37161$41d5c180$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hhfvdypvltvkejnqdxisarswpj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:54:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hhfvdypvltvkejnqdxisarswpj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we'ld need a deep bind or a hell of a lot of binds to personalize the database. as soon as someone writes a deep bind, I'll get rid of this. perhaps someone has? --upas-hhfvdypvltvkejnqdxisarswpj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 10:50:34 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 10:50:31 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DDE419AC2; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0145519AE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7296619B31; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F16819AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <331576-17761>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <01a101c37161$41d5c180$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5d10d4601b2555c003456d50a0547f8a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:48:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > So I've added an extra routine to facedb.c so that it looks in >/usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x* before it looks in /lib/face isn't that what bind is for? --upas-hhfvdypvltvkejnqdxisarswpj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 2 23:57:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 2 23:57:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20873 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Sep 2003 23:57:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20869 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2003 23:57:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Sep 2003 23:57:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C72A419AC2; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D1E119B2F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:57:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA0D919B10; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E25E219AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:57:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the bind is defeated by the .dict files if you want to keep /lib/face in step with /n/sources/plan9/lib/face then once you have a replica of it you will have to rebuild your bound version of the .dict files unless you know different? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 00:05:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 00:05:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21032 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21028 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F8C119AEA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EDEB19B2F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EEC519B06; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F3B819AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h82F4Kuj019541 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:04:21 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h82F4Kv2019537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:04:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1618459641-652745373-1062515060=:19416" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:04:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1618459641-652745373-1062515060=:19416 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > we'ld need a deep bind or a hell of a lot of binds to personalize > the database. as soon as someone writes a deep bind, I'll get rid > of this. perhaps someone has? I use the attached monstrosity to bind the entire /sys/src/cmd/ tree in $home/kern/cmd (some 300+ binds).. this could be automated via du + test, but dealing with non-existing directories in the bind-ee location is uncertain -- should they be created? and it still won't allow me to do a 'cd $home/kern/cmd; mk all' :) andrey ---1618459641-652745373-1062515060=:19416 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=cmdbind Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=cmdbind IyEvYmluL3JjDQoNCiNjbWQNCmJpbmQgLWMgCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kICAJ CQkkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZCANCmJpbmQgLWNhIAkvc3lzL3NyYy9jbWQgCQkJ CSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kIA0KDQpmb3IoaSBpbiBjYyAxYSAxYyAxbCAyYSAy YyAybCA1YSA1YyA1aSA1bCA2YSA2YyA2bCA3YSA3YyA3bCA4YSA4YyA4bCA5 NjYwc3J2IDlhIDljIDlsIDluZnMgYWNpZCBhY21lIGFzdHJvIGF1dGggYXV4 IGF3ayBiaXRzeSBiemlwMiBjZGZzIGNmcyBjb24gY3BwIGN2cyBkYiBkaWN0 IGRpZmYgZGlzayBkb3NzcnYgZXFuIGV4ZWNuZXQgZXhwb3J0ZnMgZXh0MnNy diBmYWNlcyBmYXggZm9zc2lsIGdldGZsYWdzIGdyYXAgZ3JhcGggZ3JlcCBn cyBnemlwIGhvYyBodG1sZm10IGlvc3RhdHMgaXAganBnIGthIGtjIGtpIGts IGxleCBscCBtYXAgbWsgbmRiIHBhZ2UgcGFxZnMgcGljIHBsb3QgcGx1bWIg cG9zdHNjcmlwdCBwcm9vZiBxYSBxYyBxbCByYXRmcyByYyByZXBsaWNhIHJp byBydHN0YXRzIHNhbSBzYW10ZXJtIHNjYXQgc2N1enogc25hcCBzcGVsbCBz cGluIHNydm9sZDlwIHNzaCBzeXNjYWxsIHRhcGVmcyB0YmwgdGNzIHRlbGNv IHRyb2ZmIHRyb2ZmMmh0bWwgdXBhcyB1c2IgdmEgdmFjIHZjIHZlbnRpIHZp IHZsIHZuYyB2dCB3ZWJmcyB3aWtpZnMpIHsNCgliaW5kIC1jICRob21lL2tl cm4vY21kLyRpCQkkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZC8kaQ0KCWJpbmQgLWNhIC9zeXMv c3JjL2NtZC8kaQkJJGhvbWUva2Vybi9jbWQvJGkNCn0NCg0KZm9yIChpIGlu IG1uaWhvbmdvIGZsYXNoZnMgbmEgdmdhKSB7DQoJYmluZCAtYyAkaG9tZS9r ZXJuL2NtZC9hdXgvJGkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL2F1eC8kaQ0KCWJpbmQg LWNhIC9zeXMvc3JjL2NtZC9hdXgvJGkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL2F1eC8k aQ0KfQ0KDQojIGJ6aXAyJ3MgbGliDQoJYmluZCAtYyAkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2Nt ZC9iemlwMi9saWIJJGhvbWUva2Vybi9jbWQvYnppcDIvbGliDQoJYmluZCAt Y2EgL3N5cy9zcmMvY21kL2J6aXAyL2xpYgkJJGhvbWUva2Vybi9jbWQvYnpp cDIvbGliDQoNCmZvcihpIGluIDk2NjAga2ZzIHByZXApIHsNCgliaW5kIC1j ICRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL2Rpc2svJGkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL2Rpc2sv JGkNCgliaW5kIC1jYSAvc3lzL3NyYy9jbWQvZGlzay8kaQkJJGhvbWUva2Vy bi9jbWQvZGlzay8kaQ0KfQ0KDQpmb3IoaSBpbiBiaW4gZG9jIGV4YW1wbGVz IGljY2xpYiBqcGVnIGxpYiBsaWJwbmcgbWFuIG9iaiBzcmMgemxpYikgew0K CWJpbmQgLWMgJGhvbWUva2Vybi9jbWQvZ3MvJGkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21k L2dzLyRpDQoJYmluZCAtY2EgL3N5cy9zcmMvY21kL2dzLyRpCQkJJGhvbWUv a2Vybi9jbWQvZ3MvJGkNCn0NCg0KZm9yKGkgaW4gZnRwZnMgZGhjcGQgaHR0 cGQgcHBwIGltYXA0ZCBzbm9vcHkpIHsNCgliaW5kIC1jICRob21lL2tlcm4v Y21kL2lwLyRpCQkkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZC9pcC8kaQ0KCWJpbmQgLWNhIC9z eXMvc3JjL2NtZC9pcC8kaQkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL2lwLyRpDQp9DQoN CgliaW5kIC1jICRob21lL2tlcm4vY21kL3Bsb3QvbGlicGxvdAkkaG9tZS9r ZXJuL2NtZC9wbG90L2xpYnBsb3QNCgliaW5kIC1jYSAvc3lzL3NyYy9jbWQv cGxvdC9saWJwbG90CQkkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZC9wbG90L2xpYnBsb3QNCg0K DQogZm9yIChpIGluIGJ1aWxkdGFibGVzIGNvbW1vbiBjcm9wbWFya3MgZGV2 cG9zdC5hZGQgZG93bmxvYWQgZzNwOWJpdCBncmFiaXQgaGFyZGNvcHkgbWNv bG9yIG1pc2MgbXBpY3R1cmVzIHA5Yml0cG9zdCBwaWNwYWNrIHBvc3RiZ2kg cG9zdGRhaXN5IHBvc3RkbWQgcG9zdGdpZiBwb3N0aW8gcG9zdG1kIHBvc3Rw cmludCBwb3N0cmV2ZXJzZSBwb3N0dGVrIHByaW50Zm9udCBwc2VuY29kaW5n IHBzZmlsZXMgdGNwb3N0aW8gdGVzdHMgdGV4dDJwb3N0IHRyMnBvc3QgdHJv ZmZ0YWJsZSkgew0KDQoJYmluZCAtYyAkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZC9wb3N0c2Ny aXB0LyRpCQkkaG9tZS9rZXJuL2NtZC9wb3N0c2NyaXB0LyRpDQoJYmluZCAt Y2EgL3N5cy9zcmMvY21kL3Bvc3RzY3JpcHQvJGkJCSRob21lL2tlcm4vY21k L3Bvc3RzY3JpcHQvJGkNCg0KfQ0K ---1618459641-652745373-1062515060=:19416-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 00:07:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 00:07:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21106 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 00:07:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21102 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 00:07:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 00:07:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B67819B4D; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 738C919B2F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD70919B40; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BA019B4D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <338276-8064>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:05:27 -0400 Message-ID: <01d701c37163$949687e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:04:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) du -a | sed ... | rc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 00:58:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 00:58:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22249 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 00:58:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22245 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 00:58:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 00:58:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B154E19B39; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1179519A12; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:58:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B60019A11; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2427199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10559 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h82Fvbj21172 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309021557.h82Fvbj21172@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:43:17 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:57:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > what if we chuck smtp altogether? > > no matter how you cut it, the problem originates with smtp and its > dependence on the kindness of strangers. That was all fine back in The > Good Old Days, but it really sucks now. I mentioned all of this to a well-known Internet apologist once, and was laughed down. The response was, ``you're an idiot if you think good technology will solve this problem.'' I see a problem with perception: people perceive SMTP and other protocols as being good, so they look past their failings. To really make a change, you have to demonstrate on a large scale why doing it the right way (I mean, come on; not authenticating mail connections is just stupid) is better. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 01:09:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 01:09:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22451 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 01:09:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22447 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 01:09:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 01:09:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E146B19B37; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8943619B42; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:09:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3651519A88; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 565D619B28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13629 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h82G8Wj21273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309021608.h82G8Wj21273@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:56:05 EDT." <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:08:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Another way of achieving authentication for email is to implement and > use S/MIME or PGP. I'm not sure either that or "import ... /mail" solves > the computational cost of spam if the bad guys create invalid signatures, > but it does make a white-list filter more effective. I see the two as complimentary. Just because you're securing the contents of the wagon by wrapping them in a patrol of the King's men-at-arms doesn't mean you shouldn't also endeavor to clear out the highway robbers. > Any volunteers to implement S/MIME for Plan 9? A couple of us here at > Bell Labs have worked on it off and on, but there aren't enough free > hands here to get it done promptly. Step one is to implement CMS (also > known as PKCS#7 or rfc2315) starting from the ASN.1 goo in > /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c or, if you prefer, by porting an ASN.1 > compiler. Help! I'm melting! > By the way, I've happily used PGP for many years but decided that S/MIME > was more likely to catch on because it is already moderately well > supported by default in Outlook and Netscape/Mozilla. I thought there was an effort to merge OpenPGP and S/MIME in some way? S/MIME requires a lot of scaffolding to use effectively; PGP has a much lower startup cost. That said, I'm not a big fan of either. Most people don't need that level of privacy (despite what they may think, no one's out to get them and the FBI could care less about their D&D campaign plans). For cutting down on spam, this seems like cutting butter with a chainsaw. A much simpler method would be to just put an X- header with some sort of agreed upon token into one's email. Is it secure? Not really, no, but it'll defeat 99% of the wannabes, and that's a lot of bang for the buck. Of course, either would be nice to have for other reasons (everyone knows the government *really is* out to get Boyd, for instance...). A way to exchange tokens: instead of doing it via email, generate an image for an unknown user, put it on a public web server somewhere, and send them a URL. Once they get there, have them send back a description of the image and then send them a token. This defeats auto-harvesters that are smart enough to send you back a reply to our ``send this string back if you're not a spammer'' token. This will work for a while until the spammers start to implement image recognition software. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 01:54:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 01:54:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23275 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 01:54:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23271 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 01:54:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 01:54:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CFE419B3F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 003EF199E8; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FBAF19ABA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 424AB199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] xscr update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:53:13 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've fixed a memory leak in the screen grabbing routing for my set of XScreensaver ports and decided it's a good time to update the web page. A mkfile was added long time ago and thanx to suggestions from people on IRC it now puts the binaries in their own xscr/ directory. If you're interested in graphics programming for Plan 9, or just would like to waste some cpu cycles doing nothing, check out the (graphics-heavy, because of all the screenshots) web page: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/ (screenshots now in .gif format :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 02:06:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 02:06:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23537 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 02:06:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23533 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 02:06:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 02:06:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD35519ABA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AA8719B0A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:06:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEDE8199E8; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDB65199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 13:05:25 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([18.24.6.184]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 13:05:24 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F54CDD0.4000209@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:05:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto wrote: >we'ld need a deep bind or a hell of a lot of binds to personalize >the database. as soon as someone writes a deep bind, I'll get rid >of this. perhaps someone has? > a deep bind doesn't solve this, really. i have my own face database and i keep them in a directory "rsc/" so that i don't have to worry about the deep bind. the problem is that there's one database per bit depth. if you've got two different directory hierarchies, merging the databases can't be done automatically with a bind. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 02:22:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 02:22:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23806 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 02:22:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23802 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 02:22:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 02:22:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CCDD19B0A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68D8019B56; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:22:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7183199D3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB2D119AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 739440 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "rob pike, esq." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] faces Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:20:22 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the need for multiple resolutions of faces disappeared with the last gnot. the facebase should be collapsed into a single resolution-independent hierarchy. the faces program can handle any resolution; just put all the resolutions in one directory and use .dict to choose which one to show. as for personal versions, i see two solutions. one is to use binding, which would be easier if the hierarchy were collapsed. the other is to use a pair of .dict files and search the personal one first. in the collapsed scheme, there is only one .dict file. faces could easily be modified to take an argument specifying a .dict file to use first, and fall to the official one if no match is found. finally, all the names in .dict are relative. easy change: make it understand absolute names, which would make personal .dict files easier to write. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 05:26:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 05:26:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26448 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 05:26:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26444 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 05:26:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 05:26:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 394FA19B3A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C375419B3A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC9FD199EB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9055199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] more fun with faces Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:26:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here's the reason why I was playing with faces. http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/usr/matt/bin/rc/face_from_pattern_match I get plenty of mail from mailing lists and having the flag of origin doesn't provide many visual clues as to the content. What this script does is grep the rawheaders for patterns in /usr/$USER/lib/face/auto_create_patterns and puts an entry in /usr/$USER/lib/face/48x48x1/.dict but with the face specified in the auto_create_patterns by example : auto_create_patterns contains (tab separated) List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> lists/plan9.9fans.1 So when an email comes in with that List-Id if the sender isn't already in the existing .dict files the sender is added. i.e. globemedia.net/clark.kent lists/plan9.9fans.1 The main flaw in it is if a new person posted to inferno@topica.com before 9fans then I'd have all their posts from then on marked as inferno posts my idea is to regularly delete 48x48x1/* I've been running it for half an hour From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 05:31:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 05:31:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26572 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 05:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26568 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 05:31:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 05:31:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01E1519AAA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03C3D19B3D; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B7E4199EB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6039019AAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4587c171c14c9795f0f9607bc746995a@yourdomain.dom> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] more fun with faces Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:32:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) forgot to mention that I invoke it from /mail/box/$USER/pipeto /usr/matt/bin/rc/face_from_pattern_match $BIN/deliver $RECIP $D/from $MBOX < $D/raw From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 05:51:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 05:51:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26815 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 05:51:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26811 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 05:51:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 05:51:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A984119B56; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 986D019B46; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:51:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3055919B50; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2572E199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <340627-17762>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:49:50 -0400 Message-ID: <002a01c37193$b3655680$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4587c171c14c9795f0f9607bc746995a@yourdomain.dom> Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:49:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > forgot to mention that I invoke it from /mail/box/$USER/pipeto eh? s/USER/user/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 05:59:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 05:59:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26916 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 05:59:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26912 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 05:59:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 05:59:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE04219BC3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FA3119B5B; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:59:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E697019A7A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FE8819B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <461501-20693>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:57:20 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01c37194$bf9de380$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4587c171c14c9795f0f9607bc746995a@yourdomain.dom> Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:56:57 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) did you chmod +al /usr/$user/lib/face/48x48x1/.dict man mail also says the pipeto is run as 'none'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 06:13:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 06:13:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27102 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 06:13:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27098 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 06:13:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 06:13:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2A9519BC7; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D251D19B7F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E04199EB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F1E219B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <71538cfda6316716df05f2dcd186ac0b@yourdomain.dom> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces From: matt@yourdomain.dom In-Reply-To: <002a01c37193$b3655680$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:13:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > forgot to mention that I invoke it from /mail/box/$USER/pipeto eh? s/USER/user/ $USER is set in pipeto, it runs as none sp $user would be 'none' that bit was snarfed From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 06:30:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 06:30:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27458 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 06:30:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27454 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 06:30:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 06:30:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDC6319BE3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7A44199DE; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:30:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52F7419B4F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6430519B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <338301-26094>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:28:28 -0400 Message-ID: <006b01c37199$1912bfe0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309021608.h82G8Wj21273@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:28:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > A way to exchange tokens: instead of doing it via email, generate an > image for an unknown user, put it on a public web server somewhere, and > send them a URL. Once they get there, have them send back a > description of the image and then send them a token. i like this idea but if you stick the token as an X-* (with every message) field it's next to impossible (or i don't know how to do it) to get Outlook and maybe other UAs to a) insert the token and b) insert it. other problem is whether the token is on a per recipient basis. it just can't be done with Outlook. however, if you give out a unique token to people you like Outlook can then apply a rule if it's in the body (say signature) of the message. i know it's susceptible to 'man in the middle' attacks, but it sure would kill a lotta spam. oh shit, it's also harvestable from mailing lists that are archived. in fact you can just mail people 'make sure this token is in your sig or mail from you will be spam killed'. the 'image' in this case is the content of the message sent to you. you wanna try this out, dan? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 06:34:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 06:34:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27506 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27502 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 06:34:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1492519B44; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D5F019B53; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C997A19B44; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2774199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b2af1a8a7f9c286869f142eb1ce1930@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:33:29 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Russ and I wrote ovfs using lib9p for 3rd ed. but never updated it for 4th ed. and the new lib9p. Dan Cross has a copy and may have updated it to 4th ed. by now. I never got it working under heavy load but I didn't fully understand the libthread model of threads at the time and probably went overboard with locking (ovfs appeared to deadlock itself under load). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 06:43:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 06:43:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27682 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 06:43:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27678 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 06:43:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 06:43:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8793D19B5B; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A666C19BC1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8AB7199EB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09CFF19BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <463129-20694>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01c3719a$d177d6a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71538cfda6316716df05f2dcd186ac0b@yourdomain.dom> Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:40:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > $USER is set in pipeto, it runs as none sp $user would be 'none' i don't see anywhere where you mentioned it should be. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 07:19:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 07:19:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28267 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 07:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28263 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 07:19:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 07:19:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B813B19BD3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27FF119B53; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:19:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87F3E19BAE; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFED919B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 135.255.41.49 ([135.255.41.49]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 18:18:43 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <002101c3719f$b78d5ee0$3129ff87@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F54CDD0.4000209@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:15:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You're right of course. Merging the .dicts and the .machinelist is also not solved by binds. I forgot to get my brain our of neutral. Only has one gear anyways and that one is starting to slip. I realized my mistake driving up to Boston. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Cox" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face > David Presotto wrote: > > >we'ld need a deep bind or a hell of a lot of binds to personalize > >the database. as soon as someone writes a deep bind, I'll get rid > >of this. perhaps someone has? > > > > a deep bind doesn't solve this, really. i have my own face database > and i keep them in a directory "rsc/" so that i don't have to worry about > the deep bind. the problem is that there's one database per bit depth. > if you've got two different directory hierarchies, merging the databases > can't be done automatically with a bind. > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 07:20:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 07:20:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28309 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 07:20:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28305 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 07:20:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 07:20:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84F4B19B53; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C918619B53; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0915A19B53; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FD5619BC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 135.255.41.49 ([135.255.41.49]) by plan9; Tue Sep 2 18:19:48 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <002701c3719f$de0145f0$3129ff87@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309021608.h82G8Wj21273@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:16:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What smime (and pgp) can achieve is digital signing so that spammers can't masquerade with From:'s of people in your white list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Cross" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs > > Another way of achieving authentication for email is to implement and > > use S/MIME or PGP. I'm not sure either that or "import ... /mail" solves > > the computational cost of spam if the bad guys create invalid signatures, > > but it does make a white-list filter more effective. > > I see the two as complimentary. Just because you're securing the contents > of the wagon by wrapping them in a patrol of the King's men-at-arms doesn't > mean you shouldn't also endeavor to clear out the highway robbers. > > > Any volunteers to implement S/MIME for Plan 9? A couple of us here at > > Bell Labs have worked on it off and on, but there aren't enough free > > hands here to get it done promptly. Step one is to implement CMS (also > > known as PKCS#7 or rfc2315) starting from the ASN.1 goo in > > /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c or, if you prefer, by porting an ASN.1 > > compiler. > > Help! I'm melting! > > > By the way, I've happily used PGP for many years but decided that S/MIME > > was more likely to catch on because it is already moderately well > > supported by default in Outlook and Netscape/Mozilla. > > I thought there was an effort to merge OpenPGP and S/MIME in some way? > S/MIME requires a lot of scaffolding to use effectively; PGP has a much > lower startup cost. That said, I'm not a big fan of either. Most > people don't need that level of privacy (despite what they may think, > no one's out to get them and the FBI could care less about their D&D > campaign plans). For cutting down on spam, this seems like cutting > butter with a chainsaw. A much simpler method would be to just put an > X- header with some sort of agreed upon token into one's email. Is it > secure? Not really, no, but it'll defeat 99% of the wannabes, and > that's a lot of bang for the buck. Of course, either would be nice to > have for other reasons (everyone knows the government *really is* out > to get Boyd, for instance...). > > A way to exchange tokens: instead of doing it via email, generate an > image for an unknown user, put it on a public web server somewhere, and > send them a URL. Once they get there, have them send back a > description of the image and then send them a token. This defeats > auto-harvesters that are smart enough to send you back a reply to our > ``send this string back if you're not a spammer'' token. This will > work for a while until the spammers start to implement image > recognition software. > > - Dan C. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 07:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 07:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28615 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 07:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28611 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 07:37:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 07:37:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9849219BFB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12CEC19BF0; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:37:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70FF819BF4; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A64219B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h82MaTvC019505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:36:29 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h82MaSps024126 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:36:29 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h82MaSVU012393 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:36:28 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <002701c3719f$de0145f0$3129ff87@bl.belllabs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:36:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, david presotto wrote: > What smime (and pgp) can achieve is digital signing so that spammers > can't masquerade with From:'s of people in your white list. yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, which is why i liked the file system idea. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 09:35:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 09:35:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 737 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 09:35:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 733 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 09:35:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 09:35:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 709C519B6F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFCE519A21; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:35:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52FF819AF3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73EA719A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <337155-26095>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:33:47 -0400 Message-ID: <010601c371b2$fbc4c540$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309011737.h81Hbaj15986@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 02:33:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's right. Awk was brought in under the ape, and so doesn't really > do exits.... bugger it, i'm porting it away from ape. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 10:00:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 10:00:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1599 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 10:00:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1594 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 10:00:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 10:00:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A7A919B23; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2400F199BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:00:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38F6B19B23; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E918199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27989 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h830xQj23628 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:36:27 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:59:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dave writes: > What smime (and pgp) can achieve is digital signing so that spammers > can't masquerade with From:'s of people in your white list. So does having an X-header that has a token in it. One easy way around the harvesting-from-a-mailing-list-archive thing is doing something S/Key-ish: The first time you send an email to someone, send the token sha'ed 100,000 times. The next time, send it sha'ed 99,999 times, etc. Both sides keep track of the token and the current sequence number. Or, and even simpler, take the token and sha it with the contents of the message. The token itself doesn't show up in any archives anywhere, and the scheme is immune to problems with bounces getting sequence numbers out of whack, and you get some modicum of integrity checking on the message itself. A way around the client problem is to build it into the MTA (but the MTA's on both sides have to support it). Ron writes: > yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that > covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, which > is why i liked the file system idea. I think we've lost that battle. Some knocking at the castle gates is always going to happen now days. :-( - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 10:07:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 10:07:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1879 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 10:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1875 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 10:07:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 10:07:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA54219B5C; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88A8E19B71; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:07:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60E6119B5C; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23B3A19B71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c093fad03d6d5f4270a7c0558de7193@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <2b2af1a8a7f9c286869f142eb1ce1930@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:07:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Russ and I wrote ovfs using lib9p for 3rd ed. but never updated it > for 4th ed. and the new lib9p. Dan Cross has a copy and may have > updated it to 4th ed. by now. If we use another file system for no archiving, as the other file svstem I'm using, it's neccessary to make it everyone writable. If not, we have so many isolated files or directories in that 'other' file system. On the other hand, if we have some mechanism to make a file or directory avoid archiving, it's very easy to maintain that tree by individual users. The ovfs is for such purpose? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 10:51:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 10:51:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3489 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 10:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3485 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 10:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 10:51:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9ED219BD1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B82B19B32; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:51:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A67219B32; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62BF819AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a570e17207c62ffa52fda8519ef56ef@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:50:34 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Knocking at the gate is one thing, crashing through with a bus full of aggressive salesmen in loud checks and plaids is another. A scheme that seems to be closer to what Ron wants would be to have the sending system contact the receiving system and announce that user so-and-so has a message of this size with this message-id that he wants to send to user thus-and-such on the receiving system; possibly there's some form of authentication that it really is so-and-so sending it. If thus-and-such's white-list permits it (presumably based on the sending user), the message is let through; if his black-list denies it, the message is refused, and if neither list mentions the sender, the sending system is told `we'll get back to you', the message is not accepted, and the receiving system appends a brief notification to thus-and-such's gray-list. Periodically, maybe once a day, thus-and-such scans his gray-list and if he sees a message that he wants to look at it, he fetches it by message-id from the sending system, incurring the band-width expenditure then. This could almost be cobbled together today using SMTP and POP3 or (god help us) IMAP4. The major change would be to have the sending system hang on to unsent (gray-listed) messages for some period so that they may be retrieved. I suppose that could almost be accomplished by having smtpd return the cabbalistic SMTP return code meaning `try again later'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 11:01:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 11:01:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3919 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 11:01:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3914 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 11:01:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 11:01:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9636A19BF5; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53F7219BF5; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:01:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA37F19B32; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF30F19AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <9c093fad03d6d5f4270a7c0558de7193@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:00:46 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ovfs was originally meant to allow overlaying of the contents of one file server's main file system onto another one, but I can see plenty of other uses for it. I and everybody I've talked to about this says `Yeah, when I first heard about Plan 9's binds, I assumed that they were recursive', thus letting a user customise the system easily and extensively with something like bind -b /usr/$user / Maybe we're all dolts, but I think that something about the way binds are explained sets people's expectations to be at odds with the reality of bind's implementation. Or maybe we just extrapolate what appears to be an obvious extension (though of course it isn't, given the implementation). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 11:01:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 11:01:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3927 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 11:01:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3923 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 11:01:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 11:01:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B261A19AF3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F5F319B71; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:01:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4461719B32; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EAF619AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12653 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h83202j23960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309030200.h83202j23960@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:15:27 EDT." <002101c3719f$b78d5ee0$3129ff87@bl.belllabs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:00:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You're right of course. Merging the .dicts and the .machinelist is also > not solved by binds. I forgot to get my brain our of neutral. Only has > one gear anyways and that one is starting to slip. I realized my mistake > driving up to Boston. Is there a reason one can't get rid of the .dict files entirely? Why not name the image files after the email address? Now that we have long file names, there shouldn't be an issue with file name size. I suppose the only real two issues would be matching domainnames (e.g., user@foo1.bar.com, user@foo2.bar.com, user@foo3.bar.com are probably all the same person and should use the same picture, etc), and it might be convenient to have the same picture for multiple mailboxes at different domains (e.g., presotto@bell-labs.com and presotto@closedmind.org are the same person). I can't think of a particularly good solution to that without some sort of index. Perhaps making filenames regular expressions or something (I don't like that, it does away with a simple walk and turns it into a linear scan of a big directory). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 11:29:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 11:29:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5055 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 11:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5051 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 11:29:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 11:29:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B71A19BF0; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27C6019B71; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE81119B71; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B52E19BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:29:39 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I and everybody I've talked to about this says `Yeah, when I first > heard about Plan 9's binds, I assumed that they were recursive', thus > letting a user customise the system easily and extensively with > something like > > bind -b /usr/$user / I don't want all my personal mails are archived to venti, and something other must be in the same situation. Everybody has his/her peronal matters in his/her home directory, and operating system should allow this, I think. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 11:34:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 11:34:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5235 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 11:34:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5220 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 11:34:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 11:34:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C224719C14; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4443F19B79; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CCE119B5D; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41E7F19B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73a798217642ba3050b09e90f1c4c8e0@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:33:49 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've found it valuable to have mail archived. If your mail is that sensitive, perhaps you should be using PGP for it (and anything else private). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 11:39:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 11:39:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5426 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 11:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5421 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 11:39:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 11:39:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3A7519C19; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0E7719B41; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34B7019B79; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1A9119B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <614f3e08d6bca8840f8e03caec163bb1@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <73a798217642ba3050b09e90f1c4c8e0@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:55 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've found it valuable to have mail archived. If your mail is that > sensitive, perhaps you should be using PGP for it (and anything else > private). No, I don't think so. We could be able to select to archive or not by ourselves. I know we can do it by making /usr/okamoto hieralchie on other file system, and bind it if neccessary. However, It looks not so beautiful solution to me. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 12:37:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 12:37:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7431 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 12:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7426 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 12:37:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 12:37:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2172A19C10; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57C5519B6A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:37:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9176219B6A; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (epaphras.cnm-vra.com [208.21.241.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DDCB19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BE108CE1F; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:35:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030903033517.GB4670@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> References: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> <1a570e17207c62ffa52fda8519ef56ef@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1a570e17207c62ffa52fda8519ef56ef@collyer.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:35:17 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 06:50:34PM -0700, Geoff Collyer wrote: > Knocking at the gate is one thing, crashing through with a bus full of > aggressive salesmen in loud checks and plaids is another. A scheme > that seems to be closer to what Ron wants would be to have the sending > system contact the receiving system and announce that user so-and-so I wonder if a combined approach would work. Once the receiving system gets MAIL FROM and RCPT TO from the sending system, it checks the 'to' user's white list and, if the sender address isn't on it, it refuses the message (maybe delaying somewhat in doing so, i.e. tarpitting) with a 'wait till later' error code and sticks the from address in a grey list. It then constructs a challenge message which is sent to the sender and asks a question that no current computer program can answer. When that question is answered correctly (either by e-mail to a secondary address, i.e. user+auth-@domain.com, or by filling out an HTML form or whatever), the address is put in the user's white-list automatically and further mail is let through. Some difficulty comes when a user whose mail server implements this policy tries to contact another user with a similar anti-spam system. The best way to handle this is to whitelist every address the user sends mail to, however, that may be troublesome to implement in certain situations. Perhaps it would be acceptable to give a unique identifier to every challenge that goes out and make it be from user+auth-@domain.com. Then mail that comes to that kind of address is checked to see if the id matches that of a challenge sent to the from address. Then we know that this message is either an answer to the challenge, or another challenge. These could be differentiated by placing an X-Challenge header on every challenge message. Right and wrong answers would be handled directly, and messages claiming to be a challenge could be placed in a holding area that the user would check periodically. The point of this is that no modification is needed either to the protocol or the user agent. Everything is done on the recipient's mail server. Even if spam did get through (i.e. the challenges aren't good enough, or the spam is masquerading as a challenge), you know that the sending address is a valid, reachable address. This is certainly a win over the current system. There are probably big problems with this, as I haven't applied more than a few minutes of thought to it. But it struck me as I was reading Geoff's message. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 14:53:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 14:53:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16544 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 14:53:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16540 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 14:53:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 14:53:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBF3919B4E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2159A19B65; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:53:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF13D19B45; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls2.std.com [199.172.62.104]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFC4119A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PRESTOT23 (1Cust162.tnt4.bos10.da.uu.net [65.229.156.162]) by TheWorld.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id h835q4F2000731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:52:08 -0400 Message-ID: <005f01c371df$0e59d5c0$2c9ce541@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:48:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'ld rather not have to keep a secret and a counter for everyone I want to exchange mail with. Messages get lost and reordered so at the very least I need to accept some range of possible sha1ings. I also want to accept mail from people I haven't talked to before but have proved to someone else that they aren't spammers. I'm happier with the /mail idea than this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Cross" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs > Dave writes: > > What smime (and pgp) can achieve is digital signing so that spammers > > can't masquerade with From:'s of people in your white list. > > So does having an X-header that has a token in it. One easy way around > the harvesting-from-a-mailing-list-archive thing is doing something > S/Key-ish: The first time you send an email to someone, send the token > sha'ed 100,000 times. The next time, send it sha'ed 99,999 times, > etc. Both sides keep track of the token and the current sequence > number. Or, and even simpler, take the token and sha it with the > contents of the message. The token itself doesn't show up in any > archives anywhere, and the scheme is immune to problems with bounces > getting sequence numbers out of whack, and you get some modicum of > integrity checking on the message itself. A way around the client > problem is to build it into the MTA (but the MTA's on both sides have > to support it). > > Ron writes: > > yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that > > covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, which > > is why i liked the file system idea. > > I think we've lost that battle. Some knocking at the castle gates > is always going to happen now days. :-( > > - Dan C. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 16:16:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 16:16:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22589 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 16:16:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22585 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 16:16:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 16:16:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E2B919B82; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F025919B65; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0008F19B41; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E2519A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6144f67b6e6a5719ee10eae11a318996@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hack for /usr/$user/lib/face From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200309030200.h83202j23960@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:15:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > be convenient to have the same picture for multiple mailboxes at > different domains (e.g., presotto@bell-labs.com and Now that we have venti, we can store the same image 10k times in the file system and be sure that the file would be stored just once. So this is not a problem. I think I like the idea of a /lib/face/domain/^(unknown usr1 usr2 ...) hierarchy; just tired of merging .dicts. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 16:39:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 16:39:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24218 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 16:39:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24214 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 16:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 16:39:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 301B319B96; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1EAD19B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:39:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 439C619B41; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 235EA19B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85915ed97131806df51b712a709c3f0d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200309021608.h82G8Wj21273@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:38:39 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > A way to exchange tokens: instead of doing it via email, generate an > image for an unknown user, put it on a public web server somewhere, and > send them a URL. Once they get there, have them send back a > description of the image and then send them a token. This defeats But I would send/reply then almost no mail; unless I fell it's worth the burden of running your procedure, which is not too often in my case ☺. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 17:12:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 17:12:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25753 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 17:12:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25749 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 17:12:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 17:12:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FFF419B87; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D7F19B65; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2234019B75; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18D2C19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h837xlIw015815 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:59:49 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h837xdvG015814 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:59:39 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030903095933.E15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Eric Grosse on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:56:05AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:59:34 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:56:05AM -0400, Eric Grosse wrote: > > Any volunteers to implement S/MIME for Plan 9? A couple of us here at > Bell Labs have worked on it off and on, but there aren't enough free > hands here to get it done promptly. Step one is to implement CMS (also > known as PKCS#7 or rfc2315) starting from the ASN.1 goo in > /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c or, if you prefer, by porting an ASN.1 > compiler. > No guarantee, but I'm game. I'm neither afraid of ASN.1 nor a fan of reinventing the wheel. Anyone else volunteering? > By the way, I've happily used PGP for many years but decided that S/MIME > was more likely to catch on because it is already moderately well > supported by default in Outlook and Netscape/Mozilla. > PGP and S/MIME address different audiences. What is needed is a lightweight CA that merely certifies an e-mail address (like the PGP public key servers if they were restricted to e-mail addresses on a first-come, first-served basis) so that users are encouraged, not frightened off getting a certificate. And some form of recourse in the event of someone stealing the e-mail address, and that's the hard part, sadly. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 17:26:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 17:26:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26250 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 17:26:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26246 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 17:26:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 17:26:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80DA919B97; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78D6A19A9F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:26:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6189419A9F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 775D019A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <148b8d69b88efdd9415d414c1d481411@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030903095933.E15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:24:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > not frightened off getting a certificate. And some form of recourse > in the event of someone stealing the e-mail address, and that's the > hard part, sadly. Not just the sad, but also the common part. Most of the spam I get seems to use addresses from someone else. I'm afraid that certifying the from address would not work. I hope bayes is right. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 17:57:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 17:57:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27089 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 17:57:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27085 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 17:57:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 17:57:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABD8919C01; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3584B19ABC; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EFBA19B9B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 551E819A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19uTK1-00007y-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Caerwyn Jones Message-ID: <8Lc5b.257535$It4.120621@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> Organization: Comcast Online Subject: [9fans] dict Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:47:42 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) http://home.comcast.net/~caerwyn/dict.tgz contains changes to dict to support the Project Gutenberg Webster dictionary (http://promo.net/pg). Only for people too cheap to buy the OED2 :) -Caerwyn From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 17:57:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 17:57:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27096 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 17:57:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27092 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 17:57:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 17:57:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE2D919C1A; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BDA719ABC; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12F8A19A21; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 455C419B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19uTK1-000084-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <-eCdnf00NKedO8iiU-KYvw@comcast.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200309011737.h81Hbaj15986@augusta.math.psu.edu>, <010601c371b2$fbc4c540$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:48:03 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: > bugger it, i'm porting it away from ape. But there is still a specification for awk to which I urge you to conform. awk runs on a multitude of platforms and it would be nice if awk programs were portable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 18:16:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 18:16:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27769 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 18:16:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27765 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F99C19C23; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A127519BA3; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2790219B89; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5D3919BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h839E0b08726 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:14:02 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:13:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 10:24:54AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > > not frightened off getting a certificate. And some form of recourse > > in the event of someone stealing the e-mail address, and that's the > > hard part, sadly. > > Not just the sad, but also the common part. Most of the spam I get > seems to use addresses from someone else. > > I'm afraid that certifying the from address would not work. > I hope bayes is right. This is the scenario I think would work: My mail exchanger accepts mail that is "certified" and for which it has the certificate public key. Certified mail contains either a signature in the body as with PGP or a header of some description, encrypted with the sender's private key so it can be decrypted and validated. A preferable form of encryption would be at the SMTP protocol level, but this is a different model. The message may convey the public key in the headers as suggested by the Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) RFCs, but then there has to be a CA in the certificate hierarchy that validates the trust. If trust cannot be validated, I suggest that a group of public certificate servers, probably including the existing PGP public key servers, should be queried for the certificate/public key. If the certification cannot be established in this fashion, then the difficult procedure comes into action. Here we expect the exchanger to submit a request to a preferred public certificate server that causes the sender to be polled. If the sender replies with a valid certificate (or public key), it is stored in the public server and forwarded to the exchanger, if not, then within some time limit the exchanger is notified. I hope I didn't abbreviate the above beyond usefulness, I'll be happy to expand if I haven't been clear in any way. And I will of course be interested in flaws as well as improvements. ++L PS: At the SMTP level, I would suggest an exchange between servers that has contractual value. In other words, the sending exchanger ought to accept legal liability for mail it insists in forwarding. Legislation to this effect would have to be enacted, naturally. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 18:32:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 18:32:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28195 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 18:32:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28191 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 18:32:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 18:32:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3638F19C24; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51E1019BA5; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CED9D19B45; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0235319A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h839VHtE016862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:31:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h839VCoH001885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:31:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? In-Reply-To: <-eCdnf00NKedO8iiU-KYvw@comcast.com> Message-ID: <20030903032744.N1234@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <200309011737.h81Hbaj15986@augusta.math.psu.edu>, <010601c371b2$fbc4c540$b9844051@insultant.net> <-eCdnf00NKedO8iiU-KYvw@comcast.com> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:31:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > bugger it, i'm porting it away from ape. > But there is still a specification for awk to which > I urge you to conform. awk? nawk? gawk? mawk? bawk? squawk? Frobbing exit[s] (and making it grok UTF-8?) are not evil designs on life, the universe, and everything. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 19:11:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 19:11:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29279 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 19:11:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29275 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 19:11:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 19:11:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7DB319A80; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81ACB19C28; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:11:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05DB819AE4; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16DA319A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83A9ttE017039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:09:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83A9qoH002007; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: <20030903035930.Y1234@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:09:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > My mail exchanger accepts mail that is "certified" and for which it > has the certificate public key. Certified mail contains either a > signature in the body as with PGP or a header of some description, > encrypted with the sender's private key so it can be decrypted and > validated. A preferable form of encryption would be at the SMTP > protocol level, but this is a different model. SMTP AUTH cannot (reasonably) solve this problem. What SMTP AUTH is intended to address is the problem where a road warrior's laptop needs to inject mail via a home-agent MTA. It can only authenticate the laptop to the home MTA. It cannot authenticate the originator of the mail coming from the laptop. (PGP and S/MIME try to solve that problem.) Open SMTP relays fall into two categories: 1) those operated by people who haven't a clue, or 2) those operated by people who need to allow remote relay but are too stupid (or cheap) to acquire MUA software that supports SMTP AUTH for just this purpose. If people would use SMTP AUTH to solve problem #2, problem #0 (the need for PGP or S/MIME signatures to bypass filters) would mostly just go away. --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:05:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:05:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31602 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:05:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31598 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:05:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:05:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EA5419AF8; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4315319ACB; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BF3319AE4; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 807B919AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <277916-3356>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:04:25 -0400 Message-ID: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030903095933.E15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:03:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > No guarantee, but I'm game. I'm neither afraid of ASN.1 nor a fan of > reinventing the wheel. Anyone else volunteering? last time i was at the labs ['98] presotto was playing with it. S/MIME is probably a better choice if we are determined on overkill. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:10:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:10:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31719 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:10:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31715 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:10:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:10:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A0A419B93; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6979519AE4; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEB1519B63; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91AC19ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <334394-3358>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:09:23 -0400 Message-ID: <01ae01c37214$249283c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <-eCdnf00NKedO8iiU-KYvw@comcast.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:08:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > awk runs on a multitude of platforms and it would be nice if > awk programs were portable. that's always been the plan. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:22:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:22:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32000 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:22:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31995 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:22:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:22:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0692919B63; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1D5C19C29; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:22:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00BCE19B8F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B89C19B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <584028-13925>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: <01cb01c37215$c5a7e420$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030903032744.N1234@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:20:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Frobbing exit[s] (and making it grok UTF-8?) are not evil designs on life, > the universe, and everything. it will behave just like it does now on plan 9 except you can go: exit "foo" now testing it is probably going to be a bugger. i did find this bug: /dev/std* were being used instead of /fd/* From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:28:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:28:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32153 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:28:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32149 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:28:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:28:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8724C19C35; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512B519C3A; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:28:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAC8719C25; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0416219B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <465426-28895>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:26:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01d701c37216$7d6abce0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:25:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the PKI is shot full of holes. hacking [E]SMTP is probably a bad idea and only solves the problem for the hacked implementations. i still go for token in the sig. it's simple and raises the bar -- that's what security is about. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:37:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:37:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32328 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:37:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32324 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:37:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:37:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4772D19C36; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77BCF19C36; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:37:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D76819C37; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0686F19C34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces From: matt@yourdomain.dom In-Reply-To: <009b01c3719a$d177d6a0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dsboltbookfqcnskzdfhvvlzeu" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:37:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dsboltbookfqcnskzdfhvvlzeu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, some of that post was a bit sloppy. it's no excuse but it was hack on top of a hack, I'm sure if you were interested in it, figuringit out wouldn't be too hard. Thanks for the tip on 'none' I hadn't spotted that. The .dict file was empty initially and 'none' had been allowed to create it. --upas-dsboltbookfqcnskzdfhvvlzeu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from cabbage.proweb.net ([195.182.164.29]) by pop.proweb.net (Slinky ver 1.61) with SMTP for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:44:13 GMT Received: from patricia.fasthosts.co.uk ([213.171.192.150]) by cabbage.proweb.net (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id M2003090222433707246 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:43:37 +0100 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] by patricia.fasthosts.co.uk with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id AEFE93D010C; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:43:26 +0100 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E16AA19BEA; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA60819B5B; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:43:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8AB7199EB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09CFF19BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <463129-20694>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009b01c3719a$d177d6a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71538cfda6316716df05f2dcd186ac0b@yourdomain.dom> Subject: Re: [9fans] more fun with faces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:40:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-UIDL: IS,!!Pb"!!heX!!+;g!! > $USER is set in pipeto, it runs as none sp $user would be 'none' i don't see anywhere where you mentioned it should be. --upas-dsboltbookfqcnskzdfhvvlzeu-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:39:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:39:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32388 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32384 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:39:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 113CF19B8D; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18B9E19C3E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:39:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F280919C38; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 196C019B8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <333810-3363>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:38:16 -0400 Message-ID: <022401c37218$2d1a8480$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:37:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that > covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, which > is why i liked the file system idea. vix had already done it years ago with EBGP, but the problem is that spam sites pop up without end. target 'em and then blow 'em away i say, which means you have to accept the message and any solution must be 'fail safe'; no message should be chucked because some 3rd party thing is bust and you can't get to/at it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32508 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:43:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32504 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:43:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:43:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C958819C47; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B8219C39; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:43:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC04519C3E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03CA119C3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <330324-19353>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:42:07 -0400 Message-ID: <022c01c37218$b64eb960$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1a570e17207c62ffa52fda8519ef56ef@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:41:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > This could almost be cobbled together today using SMTP and POP3 or > (god help us) IMAP4. in a previous life i argued (bitterly) for a while about the futility of adding an email interface to a system. i have spent far too many hours/days/weeks/years? with 822 and SMTP and the problem is less than trivial. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:45:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:45:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32547 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:45:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32543 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:45:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:45:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CB2919C3F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B1AF19C3F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:45:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 105BA19C43; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FB1019C3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <339312-19358>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:44:11 -0400 Message-ID: <023c01c37218$ff406e20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309030059.h830xQj23628@augusta.math.psu.edu> <1a570e17207c62ffa52fda8519ef56ef@collyer.net> <20030903033517.GB4670@epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:43:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There are probably big problems with this, ... But > it struck me as I was reading Geoff's message. yes, there are. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 21:58:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 21:58:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 393 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 21:58:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 389 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 21:58:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 21:58:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB1DF19C52; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E062B19C4E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:58:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D39AF19C38; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E05119BA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? In-Reply-To: <01cb01c37215$c5a7e420$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mjxgufskncryjhnbcekqjiebkp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:56:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mjxgufskncryjhnbcekqjiebkp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you're wrong. The only occurrence of /dev/std* in the source is in a table that makes them work in awk programs. That is, awk 'BEGIN {print "hello world" >"/dev/stderr" }' works because of that table. It's not a bug. --upas-mjxgufskncryjhnbcekqjiebkp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Sep 3 08:22:33 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Sep 3 08:22:31 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E72E19C2B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0ED419BA4; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00BCE19B8F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B89C19B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <584028-13925>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: <01cb01c37215$c5a7e420$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030903032744.N1234@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:20:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Frobbing exit[s] (and making it grok UTF-8?) are not evil designs on life, > the universe, and everything. it will behave just like it does now on plan 9 except you can go: exit "foo" now testing it is probably going to be a bugger. i did find this bug: /dev/std* were being used instead of /fd/* --upas-mjxgufskncryjhnbcekqjiebkp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 22:08:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 22:08:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 596 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 22:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 592 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 22:08:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 22:08:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08C1019BAB; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E8C19C57; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B24919C4F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6143E19A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ef4b3faf3e5e706c2220def7e2895f2@yourdomain.dom> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: matt@yourdomain.dom In-Reply-To: <022401c37218$2d1a8480$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:09:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If it is our network bandwidth that we consider to be valuable then perhaps a strategy of assigning variable bandwidth to remote connections dependent on certain tokens could be an option. Bandwidth assigned by a weighting from combinations of remote machine / envelope sender / E?HELO field could mean welcome email is accepted quickly whereas unusual mail is given less resources. If you refused connections from any IP in .ru that didn't have a known envelope sender during peak hours then you could be smoothing your demand. I am thinking that in such a scheme all mail will be delivered eventually. I haven't studied the subject but I suppose that monitoring the connections to your mailserver should be revealing with regard to the weighting system. A sudden rush of email from a remote IP can be reacted to progressively throttling the bandwidth available to that IP. This has little bearing on your mbox management I suppose, except such information can be passed through in extra headers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 22:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 22:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1315 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 22:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1311 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 22:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 22:42:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74FEA19B54; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E993B19B1B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:42:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4AE919B54; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2658A19B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19uXiv-0005BU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:31:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <20f8.3f55ea9f.b73dc@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20030903032744.N1234@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca>, <01cb01c37215$c5a7e420$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:30:44 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd wrote: > it will behave just like it does now on plan 9 except you can go: > > exit "foo" What will it do for exit foo Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 22:43:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 22:43:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1344 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 22:43:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1340 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 22:43:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 22:43:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FAD519C48; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9642819B86; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DEE419B6B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE24E19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41d87c674741ad2e688c507fb77e9fae@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <5ef4b3faf3e5e706c2220def7e2895f2@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:42:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If it is our network bandwidth that we consider to be valuable ... ... then we wouldn't be reading 9fans. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 3 23:28:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 3 23:28:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2092 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Sep 2003 23:28:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2088 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2003 23:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Sep 2003 23:28:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE21C19BF1; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6E1C19B94; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:28:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 567AB19AB9; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1368919A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h83ERmvC006398 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:48 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h83ERjlr022817 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:45 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h83ERjVU002795 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:45 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <20030903095933.E15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:27:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:56:05AM -0400, Eric Grosse wrote: > > > > Any volunteers to implement S/MIME for Plan 9? A couple of us here at > > Bell Labs have worked on it off and on, but there aren't enough free > > hands here to get it done promptly. Step one is to implement CMS (also > > known as PKCS#7 or rfc2315) starting from the ASN.1 goo in > > /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c or, if you prefer, by porting an ASN.1 > > compiler. > > > No guarantee, but I'm game. I'm neither afraid of ASN.1 nor a fan of > reinventing the wheel. Anyone else volunteering? the file system still looks easier to me than all this stuff. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 01:22:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 01:22:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4234 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 01:22:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4230 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 01:22:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 01:22:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B74E19BB7; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A14719B9B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2E6D19B7A; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C86E19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04431 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h83GLZj27376 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309031621.h83GLZj27376@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:42:52 EDT." <41d87c674741ad2e688c507fb77e9fae@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 12:21:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > If it is our network bandwidth that we consider to be valuable ... > > ... then we wouldn't be reading 9fans. 9fans is low bandwidth compared to some of the ridiculously over-used Unix lists. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 03:27:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 03:27:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5949 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 03:27:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5945 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 03:27:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 03:27:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACE8019C0B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0857019B60; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:27:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 965A919B6B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF4EC19B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19ucQr-0001aE-00; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:32:41 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <87ptihzpru.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 4 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] samba server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:32:37 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is it possible to share a plan 9 disk via samba ? --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 04:55:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 04:55:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7159 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 04:55:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7155 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 04:55:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 04:55:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0614419C16; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C3BD19C06; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:55:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1F8519B9F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72AED19B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yqfhzkuabhhzvystqerkedosdh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:54:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yqfhzkuabhhzvystqerkedosdh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have a whole bunch of people here who each started writing an ASN.1 compiler (or stub generator or whatever you call it), gathered up the 4 feet worth of documentation, started writing YACC scripts, and then said ``they can't possibly mean that, this is too much work, I think I'll so something easy instead.'' --upas-yqfhzkuabhhzvystqerkedosdh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Sep 3 08:05:31 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Sep 3 08:05:29 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A956B19AB9; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 686F219AF8; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BF3319AE4; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 807B919AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <277916-3356>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:04:25 -0400 Message-ID: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3c71aba4e63ff62b9994dfa980885f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030903095933.E15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:03:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > No guarantee, but I'm game. I'm neither afraid of ASN.1 nor a fan of > reinventing the wheel. Anyone else volunteering? last time i was at the labs ['98] presotto was playing with it. S/MIME is probably a better choice if we are determined on overkill. --upas-yqfhzkuabhhzvystqerkedosdh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 06:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 06:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8397 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8393 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8611D19B6B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E541719B47; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:21:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CCF919B48; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D84F19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <469654-28895>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:19:12 -0400 Message-ID: <02e001c37260$edbcb4e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20f8.3f55ea9f.b73dc@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:18:11 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > What will it do for > > exit foo smash it into a string. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 06:22:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 06:22:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8404 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 06:22:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8400 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 06:22:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 06:22:18 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1FB2C19C15; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 094D319B48; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:22:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24F8519B48; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1930719B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <465292-28895>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:20:13 -0400 Message-ID: <02e101c37261$12772c20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:19:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think you're wrong. The only occurrence of /dev/std* in the source > is in a table that makes them work in awk programs. That is, > > awk 'BEGIN {print "hello world" >"/dev/stderr" }' noted. > works because of that table. It's not a bug. maybe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 06:29:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 06:29:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8469 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 06:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8465 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 06:29:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 06:29:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF80E19B51; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87A9819B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E6D119B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 624B819B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <340517-3359>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:27:11 -0400 Message-ID: <034201c37262$0bbcf440$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:26:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > and then said ``they can't possibly mean that, this is too much work, > I think I'll so something easy instead.'' oh yes they did. i saw the culprit give an X.[45]00 course and ASN.1 was part of it. i should have retired to the bar. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 07:18:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 07:18:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9127 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 07:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9123 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 07:18:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 07:18:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0132219B7B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE2C419B7B; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:18:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17B3619B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42E4819AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <339668-3366>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:16:35 -0400 Message-ID: <036c01c37268$f0419160$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 00:15:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > awk 'BEGIN {print "hello world" >"/dev/stderr" }' you're right. i've un-broken it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 09:50:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 09:50:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15133 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 09:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15129 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 09:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 09:50:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B406719B80; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 408D519BEE; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:50:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20FF619C03; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9A7F319B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 81408 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 00:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 00:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 00:49:13 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h840nCn235418; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:49:12 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] samba server From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:49:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is it possible to share a plan 9 disk via samba ? Is this what you want? http://www.cotswold.demon.co.uk/dist/aquarela/ Aquarela is a CIFS server for Plan 9. The aim is to provide access to Plan 9 files rather than an NT server clone. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 10:49:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 10:49:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17645 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 10:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17641 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 10:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 10:49:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1308E19C29; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEC0819B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8A1E19B7D; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F08119B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59E6B66B5E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] snapshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I ran a snap -a on my fileserver before leaving on a trip, hoping it would be done when I returned. Now that I have returned, I do not see a fingerprint in the logs, nor are the disks still spinning. That makes me think that it didn't complete. Also, I cannot connect to the fileserver. If I reboot, will I lose all the data in the fossil write cache and/or the venti snapshot? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 11:27:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 11:27:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19190 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 11:27:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19186 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 11:27:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 11:27:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC04A19C2D; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 699A319C26; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:27:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 610EF19B9E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 099B119B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009fac0d17d6461cc0d1937212b3d69e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snapshots From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yhlkcwgrmsrltlfoxfwmrwknfx" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:26:18 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yhlkcwgrmsrltlfoxfwmrwknfx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, fossil is very good at suffering reboots (assuming something has gotten to fossil, but otherwise you wouldn't have a running system, right!?) try mounting fossil's snapshot and archive again and see if they're alive and well, try connecting to the console (con -l /srv/fscons, if you've followed the wiki instructions closely) -- the vac score may be buffered there still. 9fs dump doesn't show you anything? --upas-yhlkcwgrmsrltlfoxfwmrwknfx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.7.68]) by plan9; Wed Sep 3 19:49:46 MDT 2003 Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h841nauj026634 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:36 -0600 Received: (from mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h841nalM026632 for andrey@plan9.ucalgary.ca; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:36 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h841nauj026625 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:36 -0600 Received: from imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.12.45] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for mirtchov@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h841nKMP2640499 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-edns [192.168.1.12]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h841nJ1C011323 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:19 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h841nF9e029960 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:49:19 -0600 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF28E19B8C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6200119B6A; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8A1E19B7D; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F08119B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59E6B66B5E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] snapshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Been-Here-Already: andrey I ran a snap -a on my fileserver before leaving on a trip, hoping it would be done when I returned. Now that I have returned, I do not see a fingerprint in the logs, nor are the disks still spinning. That makes me think that it didn't complete. Also, I cannot connect to the fileserver. If I reboot, will I lose all the data in the fossil write cache and/or the venti snapshot? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin --upas-yhlkcwgrmsrltlfoxfwmrwknfx-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 14:11:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 14:11:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25720 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25716 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B79819C32; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C64C719999; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:11:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 07C5A19B90; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9777819B75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h844v5Iw019244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:07 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h844v4JZ019243 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:04 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030904065702.J15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> <01d701c37216$7d6abce0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <01d701c37216$7d6abce0$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 02:25:27PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 02:25:27PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > the PKI is shot full of holes. > References, please. I'm sure you're right, but I can't just quote you :-) > hacking [E]SMTP is probably a bad idea and only solves > the problem for the hacked implementations. > Might be a good springboard for factotum to get some prime time. > i still go for token in the sig. it's simple and raises the bar -- that's > what security is about. PGP, then? Accessing the public key servers is still a requirement, although that's not hard to implement. Russ should have a partial port of PGP that we'll need. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 14:57:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 14:57:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27423 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 14:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27418 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 14:57:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 14:57:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 678E419C53; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D0E119C44; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42E5B19C40; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C334B19C2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h845guIw019319 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:42:58 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h845grCN019318 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:42:53 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030904074249.M15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 03:54:03PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:42:50 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 03:54:03PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > We have a whole bunch of people here who each started writing an ASN.1 > compiler (or stub generator or whatever you call it), gathered up > the 4 feet worth of documentation, started writing YACC scripts, > and then said ``they can't possibly mean that, this is too much work, > I think I'll so something easy instead.'' Any leftovers that I may be able to use? ASN.1 (well, BER, anyway) looks like a one-off solution to a large number of problems in my unsophisticated view. It is overspecified, but that's ITU-T for you: specifications with no (easily identified) legal loopholes. All ASN.1 compilers I have ever heard mentioned are proprietary tools, having a Plan 9 "open source" version would be real asset. Not that I'm an authority on this, I seem to be working very much in a vacuum every time I consider any ITU-T offering. ++L PS: To be perfectly honest, I think Inferno/Limbo would be even more useful to develop mail processing tools and I wonder if forsyth and friends shouldn't be closely involved. Then we have stuff that will run on Windows, where it is much more necessary. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 15:17:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 15:17:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28148 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 15:17:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28141 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 15:17:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 15:17:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4B8C19C4E; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9915019BFE; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:17:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBBFE19C26; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5142719B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h846Fvs2007146; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:15:57 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h846Fq4K001172; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:15:52 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lucio@proxima.alt.za Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-Id: <20030904161552.4a8ce1d9.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <20030904074249.M15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030904074249.M15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6X) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:15:52 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ISODE. bloatware, but does have YACC based core behaviour. Used to work on it. Marshall Rose code. (lots of lazy eval embedded side-effects in if/then/else logic) but the core of the code is pretty small. his ASN.1 stuff does encode to string, or file descriptor, or parse-struct. I doubt if you'd need the recent code, for a core ASN.1 parser. there are also heaps of stripped-down codebases for SNMP. INRIA did a free parser which was pretty small. Christian Huitema (now with Microsoft research) would know about it. -george From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 15:25:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 15:25:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28465 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 15:25:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28458 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 15:25:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 15:25:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E4D819C59; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEDE919C49; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4ECB19C49; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86D6C19C2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h846AtIw019439; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:10:56 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h846Ao7V019437; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:10:50 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: George Michaelson Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030904081038.N15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: George Michaelson , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030904074249.M15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030904161552.4a8ce1d9.ggm@apnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030904161552.4a8ce1d9.ggm@apnic.net>; from George Michaelson on Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 04:15:52PM +1000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:10:39 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 04:15:52PM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: > > ISODE. bloatware, but does have YACC based core behaviour. Used to work on it. > Hm. I thought ISODE was semi-proprietary? The NetBSD group had some comments on it, but it was a long time ago. I'll have to do some digging. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 15:32:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 15:32:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28720 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 15:32:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28716 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 15:32:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 15:32:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FDBA19C58; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FE7819C54; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:32:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D71219C54; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A473B19C49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h846Ves2025499; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:31:40 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h846Ve30020472; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:31:40 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-Id: <20030904163140.4a552bd1.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <20030904081038.N15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <019201c37213$72df7ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> <9121b85ec02fee5a2d80a8d629e5d0ae@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030904074249.M15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <20030904161552.4a8ce1d9.ggm@apnic.net> <20030904081038.N15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6X) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:31:40 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_RFCI, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:10:39 +0200 Lucio De Re wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 04:15:52PM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: > > > > ISODE. bloatware, but does have YACC based core behaviour. Used to work on > > it. > > > Hm. I thought ISODE was semi-proprietary? The NetBSD group had > some comments on it, but it was a long time ago. I'll have to do > some digging. > > ++L Well post '86/7 sometime yes, a form of ISODE went semi-proprietary, but all code up to that time was fully in the open eye, and it had ASN.1 for sure. the newer'packed encoding' stuff, I don't know how well it does that. but the basic B.E.R. should be fine. I think there would be ISODE code out there post 1990 which was safe too in fact. (it had your basic hold-harmless clause on it, from memory) -George -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3367 0490 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3367 0482 | http://www.apnic.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 16:16:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 16:16:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30659 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 16:16:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30655 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 16:16:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 16:16:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC08A19C5C; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A411E19ACB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64DC419ACB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D145919A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19uoQd-00023Z-00; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:21:15 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] samba server References: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87n0dlxbme.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 04 Sep 2003 02:21:13 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>>> "YAMANASHI" == YAMANASHI Takeshi writes: YAMANASHI> >> Is it possible to share a plan 9 disk via samba ? YAMANASHI> Is this what you want? YAMANASHI> YAMANASHI> http://www.cotswold.demon.co.uk/dist/aquarela/ YAMANASHI> YAMANASHI> Aquarela is a CIFS server for Plan 9. The aim is to provide YAMANASHI> access to Plan 9 files rather than an NT server clone. Yes, I think this is what I am looking for, thanks very much. --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 17:03:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 17:03:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32396 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 17:03:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32392 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 17:03:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 17:03:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 07F4219C63; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6147F19BB1; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:03:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 27D3219B75; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC48219A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f1da0f25d4d6757fe3ee76612b17264@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snapshots From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-doxbxmkwwbmntqzzxuikvpdxqq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:02:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-doxbxmkwwbmntqzzxuikvpdxqq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think you will loose any data; anyway, is the console alive? I'm wondering what happen to your machine. --upas-doxbxmkwwbmntqzzxuikvpdxqq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Sep 4 03:49:29 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AB3519C03; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEC0819B7C; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8A1E19B7D; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F08119B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59E6B66B5E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] snapshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I ran a snap -a on my fileserver before leaving on a trip, hoping it would be done when I returned. Now that I have returned, I do not see a fingerprint in the logs, nor are the disks still spinning. That makes me think that it didn't complete. Also, I cannot connect to the fileserver. If I reboot, will I lose all the data in the fossil write cache and/or the venti snapshot? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin --upas-doxbxmkwwbmntqzzxuikvpdxqq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 18:25:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 18:25:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2507 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 18:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2503 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 18:25:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 18:25:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2448919C65; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 463F819B8B; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAD7219C5D; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (unknown [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9DA119AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34d646444ef75d091a832014195f01e8@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sam refcard, ncpfs, etc. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:24:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I finially built a web page: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/savan/plan9/ On which I put the ncpfs Netware client release. I am using this every day and it has been completely reliable and fairly efficent; I even wrote a manual page. There are also a few scripts, toy programs, and a sam refcard I cobbled together from the sam documentation and messages on the sam-fans mail list. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 23:08:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 23:08:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9325 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 23:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9321 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 23:08:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 23:08:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 766E7199DB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21DF819B76; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:08:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 124AF19B76; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AF67199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h84E7BvC002023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:07:12 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h84E75vj031669; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:07:05 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h84E72VU014677; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:07:02 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: George Michaelson Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <20030904081038.N15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:07:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > Hm. I thought ISODE was semi-proprietary? The NetBSD group had > some comments on it, but it was a long time ago. I'll have to do > some digging. no, I used to cut magtapes for that project (a nice cash cow for UDEL while it lasted). I also dealt with the code, ack, ack, arg. Leaves a lingering distaste in me to this day. But my memory was northrop worked out a kind of open source license but they didn't want to get sued, so it had some odd clauses. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 23:32:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 23:32:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9835 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 23:32:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9831 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 23:32:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 23:32:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B29A219A40; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 794D219A40; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7492F19A32; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3A1719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] rotating one's mbox Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:33:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is it worth worrying about the tiny window of opportunity for a mail to arrive while I have no mailbox? cd /mail/box/$user/ datum = `{cat /dev/time | awk ' { print $1}'} mv mbox mbox.$datum # a mail could arrive now upas/nedmail -c chmod -al mbox.$datum And : is the strategy for people running dump any different? Matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 4 23:41:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 4 23:41:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10021 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10017 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA52B19C40; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5365F19B45; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:41:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5CA019C2F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E770F19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rotating one's mbox In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sgkehuqlnusjqlftluaxcutlju" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:40:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sgkehuqlnusjqlftluaxcutlju Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes. what exactly are you trying to do, i.e., why rotate your mailbox. You'ld be better off with a pipeto that just sticks your mail into a mailbox of the correct date in the first place. Or you could just run upas/fs and copy the raw files out into a mailbox and then remove them. Something like: upas/fs cd /mail/fs/mbox x=`{echo *} > /whatever/mbox.$datum for(i in $x){ { cat $i/unixheader; cat $i/raw; echo }>>/whatever/mbox.$datum echo delete $i > /mail/fs/ctl } Then at least you're safe, so to speak. --upas-sgkehuqlnusjqlftluaxcutlju Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 4 10:32:39 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 4 10:32:36 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34C9819C2E; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B49C19A26; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7492F19A32; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3A1719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] rotating one's mbox Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:33:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is it worth worrying about the tiny window of opportunity for a mail to arrive while I have no mailbox? cd /mail/box/$user/ datum = `{cat /dev/time | awk ' { print $1}'} mv mbox mbox.$datum # a mail could arrive now upas/nedmail -c chmod -al mbox.$datum And : is the strategy for people running dump any different? Matt --upas-sgkehuqlnusjqlftluaxcutlju-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 06:54:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 06:54:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19073 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 06:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19069 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 06:54:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 06:54:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16B7119A03; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3465519A10; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:53:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2493719C57; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D642219ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rotating one's mbox From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:33:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >what exactly are you trying to do, i.e., why rotate your mailbox. I'm just looking to keep upas/fs & faces speedy copy & delete looks the superior method, thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 06:55:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 06:55:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19123 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 06:55:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19119 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 06:55:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 06:55:12 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CA3E19C89; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9113C199D5; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:53:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E574119BCE; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86EE719BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65eba4e67ddb9d0ea10fdca6b32bbe23@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rotating one's mbox From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pigktjuddblgpommfwldwymkug" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:51:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pigktjuddblgpommfwldwymkug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm running dump, but I do not rotate my mbox at all. Actually, our mailboxes are not in a dumped file system, if any user wants to dump his/her mail it suffices to store the mails in folders residing in a dumped file system. hth --upas-pigktjuddblgpommfwldwymkug Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Sep 4 16:32:34 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96A5019C2F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 794D219A40; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7492F19A32; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3A1719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] rotating one's mbox Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:33:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is it worth worrying about the tiny window of opportunity for a mail to arrive while I have no mailbox? cd /mail/box/$user/ datum = `{cat /dev/time | awk ' { print $1}'} mv mbox mbox.$datum # a mail could arrive now upas/nedmail -c chmod -al mbox.$datum And : is the strategy for people running dump any different? Matt --upas-pigktjuddblgpommfwldwymkug-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 08:08:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 08:08:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20625 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 08:08:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20621 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 08:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 08:08:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9B4919B75; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D3C819A76; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C470519A6B; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DE0E199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C872066B5F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:00:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snapshots Message-ID: <20030904210008.GR39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030904014802.GP39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <009fac0d17d6461cc0d1937212b3d69e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <009fac0d17d6461cc0d1937212b3d69e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:00:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Everything is fine. Somehow, everything rebooted while I was gone -- probably a power outage. I normally run clog to capture the fossil console, but it doesn't get restarted on boot. I have the vac score. Thanks for the help. On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 08:26:18PM -0600, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > no, fossil is very good at suffering reboots (assuming something has gotten to fossil, but otherwise you wouldn't have a running system, right!?) > > try mounting fossil's snapshot and archive again and see if they're alive and well, try connecting to the console (con -l /srv/fscons, if you've followed the wiki instructions closely) -- the vac score may be buffered there still. 9fs dump doesn't show you anything? > From: Christopher Nielsen > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:48:02 -0700 > Subject: [9fans] snapshots > > I ran a snap -a on my fileserver before leaving on a > trip, hoping it would be done when I returned. Now > that I have returned, I do not see a fingerprint in > the logs, nor are the disks still spinning. That makes > me think that it didn't complete. Also, I cannot > connect to the fileserver. > > If I reboot, will I lose all the data in the fossil > write cache and/or the venti snapshot? > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 08:11:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 08:11:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20678 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 08:11:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20674 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 08:11:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 08:11:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9A4B19C34; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D24F199FB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A0BE19A6B; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [64.71.129.86]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81878199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2F2B166B51; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 and myrinet Message-ID: <20030904231043.GT39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20030827022147.GA25898@andrew.cmu.edu> <20030829001102.15191.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030829001102.15191.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:10:43 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I started working on myrinet drivers a while back for the same reasons, but I didn't get very far because I don't have hardware available. The best tutorial for writing drivers is reading the source. I know that probably doesn't sound very helpful, but it's true. On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 05:11:02PM -0700, James Horey wrote: > > I would like to play with Plan9 on a myrinet network. > Does anybody know of myrinet drivers for Plan 9 > official or otherwise? If there aren't any, can > anybody point me to a good Plan 9 device drivers > tutorial so that I can begin working on one? Thanks a > bunch! -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 09:35:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 09:35:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22980 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 09:35:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22969 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 09:35:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 09:35:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3A9B19C78; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CD5C19C7C; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:35:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 004CE19C7D; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB11319C79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h850YOvC002511 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:34:24 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h850YLvj029234 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:34:21 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h850YLVU006934 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:34:21 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 and myrinet In-Reply-To: <20030904231043.GT39003@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:34:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) well, if somebody does the myri port, I'm willing to try running plan 9 on the clusters here and get some #s. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 10:34:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 10:34:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24719 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 10:34:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24715 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 10:34:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 10:34:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0F7219AA9; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A30E19C74; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C574E19AA9; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC44919C74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <581514-24789>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <04dd01c3734d$8ce68720$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] rotating one's mbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 03:32:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > is it worth worrying about the tiny window of opportunity for a mail to arrive while I have no mailbox? yes, as the RX02 (iirc) manual said: violation of protcol can result in permanent data loss From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 10:47:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 10:47:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25090 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 10:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25086 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 10:47:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 10:47:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF9C719C91; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E1BB19C84; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEF1F19C8B; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B445919C81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <467037-25553>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:45:08 -0400 Message-ID: <050601c3734f$22c12600$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <66da6c9b445553becc9e3195ef487bb0@proxima.alt.za> <01d701c37216$7d6abce0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030904065702.J15496@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 03:43:08 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) as i've said before (thanks to Pere Ubu and Living Colour): But I don't need a cure D-don't need a cure D-don't need a cure I need a final solution and i want a _simple_, easily implemented 'final solution'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 10:53:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 10:53:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25215 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 10:53:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25211 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 10:53:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 10:53:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0671D199FB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD9D819C7F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:53:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E277019C71; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13E5C199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 4 21:52:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 192.168.2.22 ([68.37.144.8]) by plan9; Thu Sep 4 21:52:41 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <1e5014bac6490b0b0ad954d2d4636a7e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <050601c3734f$22c12600$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:52:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) % cat > /mail/box/boyd/pipeto #!/bin/rc cat > /dev/null exit 0 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 11:20:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 11:20:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25754 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 11:20:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25750 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 11:20:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 11:20:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 597C819C9F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D88819C94; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:20:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F7D119C96; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5C3B19C92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <329711-4327>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:19:19 -0400 Message-ID: <051301c37353$e7752600$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1e5014bac6490b0b0ad954d2d4636a7e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:17:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > % cat > /mail/box/boyd/pipeto > #!/bin/rc > cat > /dev/null > exit 0 LOL but, simple is good. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 11:36:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 11:36:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26316 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 11:36:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26312 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 11:36:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 11:36:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 495F119CA2; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4609419C94; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:36:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 429FE19C9E; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipn.mx (ipn.mx [148.204.103.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABCA519C92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.204.189.85] (HELO scan) by ipn.mx (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 6160812 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:33:16 -0500 X-Mailer: Network Associates, Inc. Webshield SMTP, Version 4.5 MR1a To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: pOsTmAsTeR@vega.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-ID: Subject: [9fans] Virus Detected by Network Associates, Inc. Webshield SMTP V4.5 MR1a Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 04 21:27:10 2003 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_NO_LOWER,FROM_NO_USER,INVALID_DATE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) El servidor de Correo Electronico Institucional del IPN detecto el virus W32/Sobig.f@MM en el archivo adjunto your_details.pif enviado por <9fans@cse.psu.edu> el cual fue Cleaned From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 16:04:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 16:04:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30768 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 14:17:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30764 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 14:17:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 14:17:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AAE519C94; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0514819CA1; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C799119CA6; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C532819CA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] optimizing graphics Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:16:07 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm shopping for optimization suggestions for the following: another xscr port: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/eruption.gif performs relatively slow on plan9 (huge discrepancy between plan9 and X). the application involves drawing a large amount of pixels on the screen and is currently doing a loop very similar to this: foreach y in Dy(screen->r) { foreach x in Dx(screen->r) { "draw() a 1x1 rectangle at (x,y), taking the colour from a previously alloc-ed image" } } i have tried double-buffering (drawing to an offline image, then after the loop is done draw-ing the image itself) and have contemplated drawing to an array of pixels, then displaying it with 'loadimage()'. another possibility is writing the pixel directly to the screen image... this particular one is implemented in X as a XPutPixel() to an offline image, which then gets displayed with XPutImage() after the loop is done. you can find the code on the page abore (xscr.tar.gz), but run it through a C beautifier before you look at it (jwz likes emacs) comments and suggestions welcome -- this is more of a learning issue, than an implementation one. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 16:08:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 16:08:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32499 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 15:41:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32495 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 15:41:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 15:41:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA90619CAD; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3990619CA1; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A532319C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8838D19C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h856ckb12266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:38:48 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:39:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I guess this will keep until Russ gets back, but if he happens to be available he may want to put some effort into getting the daily belleding edge image rebuilt. It is now positively stale :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 5 16:13:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 5 16:13:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32616 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 15:46:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32612 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 15:46:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 15:46:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F32F319CA4; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1973719CB0; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 422D719CA4; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C27519C9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h856VPug022940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:31:29 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h856VM3O022939 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:31:22 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Message-ID: <20030905083120.F19634@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za>; from lucio@proxima.alt.za on Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 08:39:00AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:31:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 08:39:00AM +0200, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > I guess this will keep until Russ gets back, but if he happens to be > available he may want to put some effort into getting the daily > belleding edge image rebuilt. It is now positively stale :-) ^^^^^^^^^ bleeding - Freudian slip? No, finger trouble. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 06:58:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 06:58:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7737 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 20:31:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7733 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 20:31:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 20:31:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46F4919CB0; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3356119C76; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3446F19C6F; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6804219AE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ba342705308bfe94a1966a85387d95c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources In-Reply-To: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uorjqqxdjgkauydlkvhebrwbee" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:30:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uorjqqxdjgkauydlkvhebrwbee Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't understand, it gets made every night from sources. The current one is from 4:35 this morning. --upas-uorjqqxdjgkauydlkvhebrwbee Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 02:41:29 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 02:41:27 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64DC419A6B; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 121AD19C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A532319C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8838D19C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h856ckb12266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:38:48 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:39:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I guess this will keep until Russ gets back, but if he happens to be available he may want to put some effort into getting the daily belleding edge image rebuilt. It is now positively stale :-) ++L --upas-uorjqqxdjgkauydlkvhebrwbee-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:10:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:10:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8046 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 20:43:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8042 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 20:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 20:43:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5E7C19CB8; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5967619C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DBBA19C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 467B619A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <81308325c1b3d692ad367c17f3a09493@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources In-Reply-To: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-okmleclxahpbnjhgsqlhqtiphd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:42:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-okmleclxahpbnjhgsqlhqtiphd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arghh! The link in the web page was wrong. --upas-okmleclxahpbnjhgsqlhqtiphd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 02:41:29 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 02:41:27 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64DC419A6B; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 121AD19C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:41:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A532319C98; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8838D19C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foible.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with SMTP id h856ckb12266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:38:48 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <3b9b03f355eeb8c2a5290775af1d9673@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:39:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I guess this will keep until Russ gets back, but if he happens to be available he may want to put some effort into getting the daily belleding edge image rebuilt. It is now positively stale :-) ++L --upas-okmleclxahpbnjhgsqlhqtiphd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:22:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:22:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8410 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 20:55:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8406 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 20:55:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 20:55:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAA4519CBE; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2416E19CB9; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E4AF19CB1; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E567C19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:54:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Now that I'm pointing to the right place, the bleeding edge is a lot bloodier. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:32:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:32:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8632 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 21:05:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8628 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 21:05:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 21:05:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B82619C76; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99FD719CB4; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69C5319CB9; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3CB519C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:04:44 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The real distribution is also newer... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:46:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:46:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21426 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 07:46:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21422 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 07:46:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 07:46:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E91719A81; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4585919A6D; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB40319A6D; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFAA119A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h85Mj5uj030940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:45:05 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h85Mj5c4030936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:45:05 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:45:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i did try writing the pixels as CMAP8 (uchar) values to an array, and then doing the old: loadimage(img,...) draw(...,img,...); trick. it's much faster now for small sizes, with bigger ones it taps out the connection and becomes slow again (but slightly faster than before). i guess the next step would be one of: - modify the image directly - add a function to draw() that displays an array of pixels (a-la XDrawPixels()). - don't do CMAP8 but create the image with the channel of the screen - do nothing the first one is complex, the second is unnecessary, the third one i'm not sure will work and the fourth is the default. what's really puzzling (perhaps not) is that the new hack i did today, polyominoes: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/polyominoes.gif is much, much, Much faster than eruption, even though it displays many more pixels on the screen (but it does larger rectangles, instead of just pixel by pixel)... for those who care, you can get the latest ones from: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/xscr.tar.gz andrey ps: we need a code convertor to beautify the nasty code those xscreensavers come with. if you don't have anything like that already (seems to me this topic was discussed in 9fans) i may port the gnu indent. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:52:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:52:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14310 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 01:17:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14306 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 01:17:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 01:17:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4C0F19CCC; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16D2119CC2; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:17:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33B8219CCA; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51EAF19CB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] spell dictionary order Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:16:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, What's the expected dictionary order for spell. We're trying to generate a spanish dictionary and it seems that the generated dictionary is not sorted according to what sprog expects. Any clue? thanks PS: We are using non ASCII characters like áé..., which might be causing the problems From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 07:56:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 07:56:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9137 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 21:29:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9133 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 21:29:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 21:29:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5ADC519CCB; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4BD119CC2; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56D7119CC2; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AA9419CBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h85CEKug023509 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:14:25 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h85CEHDK023508 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:14:18 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Message-ID: <20030905141410.K19634@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 07:54:48AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:14:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 07:54:48AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > Now that I'm pointing to the right place, the bleeding edge is > a lot bloodier. We'll see next Friday how well I have scripted my way around the Bell Labs licence etc. acknowledgement buttons. Now it's time for me to get out of town for the weekend. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 08:02:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 08:02:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21662 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 08:02:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21658 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 08:02:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 08:02:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD88519A9D; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91FA19A6B; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90ED719A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A49DC19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <668c415394bcff6b8a6ea2868dc2a576@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:01:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) presotto ported cb, but I don't see it in the distribution. dave, could you put it on sources? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 08:03:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 08:03:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9272 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Sep 2003 21:36:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9268 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2003 21:36:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Sep 2003 21:36:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E13719CCF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AF0A19CC2; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99C9E19CC3; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D256419CBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <584218-9549>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:35:30 -0400 Message-ID: <05e001c373a9$ea37d260$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030905141410.K19634@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:33:30 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) bloodier? i've just about Bio-fided awk. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 08:18:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 08:18:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21809 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 08:18:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21805 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 08:18:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 08:18:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5158E19AA3; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A103119A9E; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:18:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3C5419A8F; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BA9919A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7990f0aa3fae833e82c3b8cc6d5585c2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:17:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 5 18:46:29 EDT 2003, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > ... > ps: we need a code convertor to beautify the nasty code those xscreensavers > come with. if you don't have anything like that already (seems to me this > topic was discussed in 9fans) i may port the gnu indent. > ... Something I looked at recently in the XFree86 distribution had this at the beginning of a number of files: /* * Reformatted with GNU indent (2.2.8), using the following options: * * -bad -bap -c41 -cd0 -ncdb -ci6 -cli0 -cp0 -ncs -d0 -di3 -i3 -ip3 -l78 * -lp -npcs -psl -sob -ss -br -ce -sc -hnl * From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 08:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 08:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22049 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 08:28:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22045 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 08:28:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 08:28:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E43B219ACD; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2382F19AC3; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:28:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1481E19A9E; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45CBC19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <471ce09875b53e578d5c784d83615cbe@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <7990f0aa3fae833e82c3b8cc6d5585c2@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:27:04 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > * -bad -bap -c41 -cd0 -ncdb -ci6 -cli0 -cp0 -ncs -d0 -di3 -i3 -ip3 -l78 > * -lp -npcs -psl -sob -ss -br -ce -sc -hnl > * my plan was to strip everything but the options for Plan 9-style code and then make those the default :) something like the above was the 'recommended' way of submitting assignments for an Operating Systems course I TA'd last semester at the UofCalgary.. can't help but feel sorry for those learning C on EMACS. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 08:31:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 08:31:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13026 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 00:06:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13022 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 00:06:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 00:06:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7150819CB4; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8E9B19C88; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:06:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B419D19C88; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BA4C19BAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pwwswmpixjoqmhjunzgdokdegs" Subject: [9fans] spanish hyphenation for troff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:05:48 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pwwswmpixjoqmhjunzgdokdegs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's silly, but we learned this today and it may be useful for others. To do spanish hyphenation in troff simply put the attached sphyphen.tex at /sys/lib/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/sphyphen.tex and then bind it to (i.e. use it instead of) /sys/lib/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex before running [tn]roff. hth --upas-pwwswmpixjoqmhjunzgdokdegs Content-Type: application/x-tex Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sphyphen.tex Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 JSBUaGUgUGxhaW4gVGVYIGh5cGhlbmF0aW9uIHRhYmxlcyBbTk9UIFRPIEJFIENIQU5HRUQg SU4gQU5ZIFdBWSFdClxwYXR0ZXJuc3sgJSBqdXN0IHR5cGUgPHJldHVybj4gaWYgeW91J3Jl IG5vdCB1c2luZyBJTklURVgKLmNhY2EyCjFiMmxhCjFiMmxlCjFiMmxpCjFiMmxvCjFiMmx1 CjFiMnJhCjFiMnJlCjFiMnJpCjFiMnJvCjFiMnJ1CjFiYQoxYmUKMWJpCjFibwoxYnUKMWMy aGEKMWMyaGUKMWMyaGkKMWMyaG8KMWMyaHUKMWMybGEKMWMybGUKMWMybGkKMWMybG8KMWMy bHUKMWMycmEKMWMycmUKMWMycmkKMWMycm8KMWMycnUKMWNhCjFjZQoxY2kKMWNvCjFjdQox ZDJyYQoxZDJyZQoxZDJyaQoxZDJybwoxZDJydQoxZGEKMWRlCjFkaQoxZG8KMWR1CjFmMmxh CjFmMmxlCjFmMmxpCjFmMmxvCjFmMmx1CjFmMnJhCjFmMnJlCjFmMnJpCjFmMnJvCjFmMnJ1 CjFmYQoxZmUKMWZpCjFmbwoxZnUKMWcybGEKMWcybGUKMWcybGkKMWcybG8KMWcybHUKMWcy cmEKMWcycmUKMWcycmkKMWcycm8KMWcycnUKMWdhCjFnZQoxZ2kKMWdvCjFndQoxamEKMWpl CjFqaQoxam8KMWp1CjFrMmxhCjFrMmxlCjFrMmxpCjFrMmxvCjFrMmx1CjFrMnJhCjFrMnJl CjFrMnJpCjFrMnJvCjFrMnJ1CjFrYQoxa2UKMWtpCjFrbwoxa3UKMWwybGEKMWwybGUKMWwy bGkKMWwybG8KMWwybHUKMWxhCjFsZQoxbGkKMWxvCjFsdQoxbWEKMW1lCjFtaQoxbW8KMW11 CjFuYQoxbmUKMW5pCjFubwoxbnUKMXAybGEKMXAybGUKMXAybGkKMXAybG8KMXAybHUKMXAy cmEKMXAycmUKMXAycmkKMXAycm8KMXAycnUKMXBhCjFwZQoxcGkKMXBvCjFwdQoxcWEKMXFl CjFxaQoxcW8KMXF1CjFyMnJhCjFyMnJlCjFyMnJpCjFyMnJvCjFyMnJ1CjFyYQoxcmUKMXJp CjFybwoxcnUKMXNhCjFzZQoxc2kKMXNvCjFzdQoxdDJyYQoxdDJyZQoxdDJyaQoxdDJybwox dDJydQoxdGEKMXRlCjF0aQoxdG8KMXR1CjF2YQoxdmUKMXZpCjF2bwoxdnUKMXdhCjF3ZQox d2kKMXdvCjF3dQoxeGEKMXhlCjF4aQoxeG8KMXh1CjF5YQoxeWUKMXlpCjF5bwoxeXUKMXph CjF6ZQoxemkKMXpvCjF6dQoyY2FjYS4KMmNhY2FzLgoyY2FnYS4KMmNhZ2FzLgoyY2Fnby4K MmNlcmRvCjJjb2xhLgoyY29sYXMuCjJjdWxhci4KMmN1bG8uCjJjdWxvcy4KMmxvY2EuCjJs b2Nhcy4KMmxvY28uCjJsb2Nvcy4KMm1vY28uCjJtb2Nvcy4KMm11bGEuCjJtdWxhcy4KMnBl ZGEuCjJwZWRhcy4KMnBlZG8uCjJwZWRvcy4KMnBpdG8uCjJwaXRvcy4KMnB1dGEuCjJwdXRh cy4KMnB1dG8uCjJwdXRvcy4KYjFoCmQxaApmMWgKZzFoCmoxaAprMWgKbDFoCm0xaApuMWgK cDFoCnExaApyMWgKczFoCnQxaAp2MWgKdzFoCngxaAp5MWgKejFoCn0KXGh5cGhlbmF0aW9u eyAlIERvIE5PVCBtYWtlIGFueSBhbHRlcmF0aW9ucyB0byB0aGlzIGxpc3QhIC0tLSBERUsK b3MtdGlhcwpwZS1kcmluCn0K --upas-pwwswmpixjoqmhjunzgdokdegs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 11:53:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 11:53:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27650 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 11:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27646 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 11:53:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 11:53:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C201A19A8D; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A5A519A25; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:53:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CB4919A67; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1-haw-R.bigfish.com (mail-haw.bigfish.com [12.129.199.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E9EF199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail1-haw-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD5B149916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:52:46 +0000 (UCT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Policy Filter pOsTmAsTeR@vega.aichi-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <20030906025246.BDD5B149916@mail1-haw-R.bigfish.com> Subject: [9fans] Undeliverable message returned to sender Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:52:46 +0000 (UCT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=FROM_NO_USER,RCVD_IN_RFCI version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. Message violates a policy rule set up by the domain administrator Delivery failed for the following recipients(s): mike.clark@group1.com ----- Original Message Header ----- Received: by mail1-haw (MessageSwitch) id 1062816766750282_3753; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:52:44 +0000 (UCT) Received: from YOUR-G4LZVXOU0C (adsl-64-165-56-50.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.165.56.50]) by mail1-haw.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B99A14991E for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:52:27 +0000 (UCT) From: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> To: Subject: Your details Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:52:28 --0700 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_NextPart_000_05E9D189" Message-Id: <20030906025227.0B99A14991E@mail1-haw.bigfish.com> From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 14:11:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 14:11:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31271 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31267 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 14:11:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8A1019A92; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2067519A78; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF1E019A78; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 084F819A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <263847-12359>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:10:20 -0400 Message-ID: <060e01c37434$ae83cae0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spell dictionary order MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:06:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > PS: We are using non ASCII characters like áé..., > which might be causing the problems well they are ascii, but with diacritics, unlike swedish. if i'm lucky a can type these: °a, ä ,ö nope, but stick the ° above the a. they are real characters and collate after z, in the order i typed. all vowels. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 14:40:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 14:40:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31802 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 14:40:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31798 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 14:40:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 14:40:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B17619AAE; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5402B19A90; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 738A619A93; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A708219A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <581478-3969>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:39:52 -0400 Message-ID: <066a01c37438$cdfe6de0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7990f0aa3fae833e82c3b8cc6d5585c2@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:36:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > /* > * Reformatted with GNU indent (2.2.8), using the following options: > * > * -bad -bap -c41 -cd0 -ncdb -ci6 -cli0 -cp0 -ncs -d0 -di3 -i3 -ip3 -l78 > * -lp -npcs -psl -sob -ss -br -ce -sc -hnl > * 'rain coming down heavily at lords' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 14:42:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 14:42:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31853 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 14:42:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31849 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 14:42:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 14:42:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7ABB819AC3; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18D6719A95; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF09019A9E; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0105919A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <464328-20528>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 01:37:20 -0400 Message-ID: <065801c37438$739a79c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:33:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ps: we need a code convertor to beautify the nasty code those xscreensavers > come with. nope, you write it right the first time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 20:19:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 20:19:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5338 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 20:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5334 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 20:19:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 20:19:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FDD919A77; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A53419A23; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:19:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB56019A23; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CEF619A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <333734-7310>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 07:18:09 -0400 Message-ID: <075401c37467$ebac58a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030905141410.K19634@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:13:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) as one with the knowledge and magic of the source. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 23:08:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 23:08:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7809 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 23:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7805 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 23:08:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 23:08:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3551219A65; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E315E199D6; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58A10199FD; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FE3E199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43143556 invoked by uid 0); 6 Sep 2003 14:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.172.39]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 6 Sep 2003 14:07:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3F59EAF2.5090009@noos.fr> From: "Dr. Francis MUGUET" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: muguet@ensta.fr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Looking for somebody to teach Plan9 in Paris Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: muguet@ensta.fr List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:10:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dear Plan 9 Afficionados, Within the framework of a course I am organizing concerning "Operating Systems" I am looking for somebody that might be interested to give a short introduction to Plan 9. Since this is going to happen in Paris (France), the remaining of the message is in French. ---------------------- Je cherche un intervenant pour donner une introduction aux concepts et à l'évolution de Plan 9 à l'ENSTA http://www.ensta.fr dans le cadre du cours : http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet/DFR/Modules/c2-details.html durant la période du 7 au 23 Janvier 2004. pour une séance de 3.5 H Le cours comprends 8 élèves Il serait souhaitable d'installer aux préalable Plan 9 sur 9 (8 élèves + 1 enseignant ) de nos machines ( en multiple boot avec GNU/Linux ) La rémunération est : Une séance de 3H30 = 1.5 PF + 2 TD PF = 95.75 euros /H TD = 62.11 euros /H La séance est donc payée 267.845 soit environ 268 euros Merci Francis -- ------------------------------------------------------ Francis F. MUGUET LMA/ENSTA 32 Blvd Victor 75739 PARIS cedex FRANCE Phone: (33)1 45 52 60 19 Fax: (33)1 45 52 52 82 muguet@ensta.fr http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet MDPI Foundation http://www.mdpi.net muguet@mdpi.org http://www.muguet.org WSIS Civil Society Working Group coordinator http://www.wsis-si.org http://www.wsis-pct.org ------------------------------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 6 23:56:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 6 23:56:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8716 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Sep 2003 23:56:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8712 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2003 23:56:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Sep 2003 23:56:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F5E219A9A; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64C4B19A89; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24B5519A2C; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61231199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <248c1630a3e59de39e9bccd1cd0736ce@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics In-Reply-To: <668c415394bcff6b8a6ea2868dc2a576@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't remember doing it. It really is hell to get old. I'll see if I can find a version somewhere. I converted rc by applying a sam script to it. --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 19:02:25 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 19:02:22 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EBDB19A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7C0719A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90ED719A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A49DC19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <668c415394bcff6b8a6ea2868dc2a576@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:01:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) presotto ported cb, but I don't see it in the distribution. dave, could you put it on sources? --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 00:01:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 00:01:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8797 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 00:01:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8793 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 00:01:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 00:01:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB15719AB1; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EE2119A9E; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90F6C19AA7; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 996A319A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0c4e34784737145439fd25728872fef4@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics In-Reply-To: <248c1630a3e59de39e9bccd1cd0736ce@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ufpkvwpimnkeftxifhtpmomosn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:00:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ufpkvwpimnkeftxifhtpmomosn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's on sources now. --upas-ufpkvwpimnkeftxifhtpmomosn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 6 10:56:25 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 6 10:56:22 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 767B219A2C; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCB41199D7; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:56:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24B5519A2C; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61231199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <248c1630a3e59de39e9bccd1cd0736ce@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics In-Reply-To: <668c415394bcff6b8a6ea2868dc2a576@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:55:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't remember doing it. It really is hell to get old. I'll see if I can find a version somewhere. I converted rc by applying a sam script to it. --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 19:02:25 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 5 19:02:22 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EBDB19A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7C0719A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90ED719A26; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A49DC19A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <668c415394bcff6b8a6ea2868dc2a576@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:01:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) presotto ported cb, but I don't see it in the distribution. dave, could you put it on sources? --upas-mnutndubjmqglfdypgrlpbcglr-- --upas-ufpkvwpimnkeftxifhtpmomosn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 00:57:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 00:57:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9945 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 00:57:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9941 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 00:57:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 00:57:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1742519AAF; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81789199FC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A87819A17; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01FE9199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <464627-20529>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:56:04 -0400 Message-ID: <077901c3748e$b39d14a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F59EAF2.5090009@noos.fr> Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for somebody to teach Plan9 in Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:51:12 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i could do it / je pourrais le faire. but i'd need some notes (nemo did it right) / mais, j'aurai besoin des notes. i live in the 3rd / j'habite dans le 3è. so, your call / donc, à vous. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Francis MUGUET" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 4:10 PM Subject: [9fans] Looking for somebody to teach Plan9 in Paris > > Dear Plan 9 Afficionados, > > Within the framework of a course > I am organizing concerning "Operating Systems" > I am looking for somebody that might be interested to > give a short introduction to Plan 9. > Since this is going to happen in Paris (France), > the remaining of the message is in French. > > ---------------------- > > Je cherche un intervenant pour donner une introduction > aux concepts et à l'évolution de Plan 9 > à l'ENSTA http://www.ensta.fr > dans le cadre du cours : > > http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet/DFR/Modules/c2-details.html > durant la période du 7 au 23 Janvier 2004. > pour une séance de 3.5 H > > Le cours comprends 8 élèves > Il serait souhaitable d'installer aux préalable Plan 9 > sur 9 (8 élèves + 1 enseignant ) > de nos machines ( en multiple boot avec > GNU/Linux ) > > La rémunération est : > Une séance de 3H30 = 1.5 PF + 2 TD > PF = 95.75 euros /H TD = 62.11 euros /H > La séance est donc payée 267.845 soit environ 268 euros > > Merci > > Francis > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Francis F. MUGUET LMA/ENSTA > 32 Blvd Victor 75739 PARIS cedex FRANCE > Phone: (33)1 45 52 60 19 Fax: (33)1 45 52 52 82 > muguet@ensta.fr http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet > > MDPI Foundation http://www.mdpi.net > muguet@mdpi.org http://www.muguet.org > > WSIS Civil Society Working Group coordinator > http://www.wsis-si.org > http://www.wsis-pct.org > ------------------------------------------------------ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 02:54:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 02:54:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12229 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 02:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12225 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 02:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 02:54:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 122DE19ABC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0FB119ABC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1528A19ABD; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60DDF199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h86HqmH85747; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:52:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for somebody to teach Plan9 in Paris From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <077901c3748e$b39d14a0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:53:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If you're doing a one-lecture overview of Plan 9, I don't think Nemo's notes are what you want. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 03:23:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 03:23:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12779 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 03:23:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12775 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 03:23:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 03:23:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85F9819AE2; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DC4019AC1; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:23:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B41719AC1; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C48DC199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <463074-20534>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:18:50 -0400 Message-ID: <07d101c374a2$9e738280$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Looking for somebody to teach Plan9 in Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:13:46 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If you're doing a one-lecture overview of Plan 9, > I don't think Nemo's notes are what you want. well, it's better than no source material at and me standing up blathering in english or french or both ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 03:25:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 03:25:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12821 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 03:25:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12817 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 03:25:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 03:25:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98E7C19AAC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA77F19ACF; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49C7B19AD5; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D7A219AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <0c4e34784737145439fd25728872fef4@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:24:46 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It's on sources now. i ran all the xscreensaver code through it. some of the improvements are questionable at best :) example: tmpx = xmid + (( radius1 /* * * * * */ - radius2 ) /* This algo simulates */ * cos(( theta /* the rotation of a */ * M_PI ) /* circular disk inside */ / 180 )) /* a hollow circular */ + ( d /* rim. A point on the */ * cos(((( radius1 /* disk dist d from the */ * theta ) /* centre, traces the */ - delta ) /* path given by this */ / radius2 ) /* equation. */ * M_PI /* A deviation (error) */ / 180 ) /* of delta needs to be */ ); /* given, which greatly */ /* adds to the beauty */ tmpy = ymid + ( /* of the figure. */ ( radius1 - radius2 /* */ ) * sin /* Imperfection adds to */ ( /* beauty, symbolically */ ( theta * M_PI /* ... */ ) / 180 /* Algo deduced by */ ) /* Rohit Singh, Jan'00 */ ) + /* based on a toy he */ ( d * sin /* used to play with */ ( /* when he was a kid. */ ( /* * * * * */ but it's not cb's fault, i'm sure! there's a bug in cb.c while parsing comments within structure definitions. for example the following is parsed incorrectly: --------snip---------- static double plane_orig[][2][3] = { /* X goes into screen, Y goes right, Z goes down(up?) */ /* {Normal}, {Point} */ { {1.0, 0, 0}, {0.01, 0, 0} }, --------/snip--------- rezulting in non-compileable code: --------snip---------- static double plane_orig[][2][3] = { {Normal} , { Point} */ { { 1.0, 0, 0}, {0.01, 0, 0 } }, --------/snip--------- here's a diff that fixes this particular problem (and creates a couple of warnings), it works for me, but i'm not really completely 100% surely positive that it's the right solution: --------snip---------- plan9-2% diff cb.c /sys/src/cmd/cb/cb.c 960c960 < return(lastplace); --- > return(beg); plan9-2% --------/snip--------- CB also doesn't recognize C++-style '//' comments, or at least it renders them incorrectly if they contain any tokens suck as '}' or ')', try cb on this for example: // this is a comment with a smiley at the end :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 03:29:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 03:29:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12917 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 03:29:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12913 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 03:29:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 03:29:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E367C19ACF; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E691919ADF; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A56D19ADF; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6C0619ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h86ISQH89716; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <21b6d2a3c48b691f8073153cf8eb67c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:28:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is why it wasn't on sources. it's hardly ever useful. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 03:34:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 03:34:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12979 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12974 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 03:34:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F7E219AF1; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED6E19AE0; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:34:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73AFB19AE4; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9E4819ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <21b6d2a3c48b691f8073153cf8eb67c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:33:18 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > this is why it wasn't on sources. > it's hardly ever useful. back to gnu ident then? i want to convert ported code to the plan 9 style not only for aesthetic reasons, but because it's much easier to read -- case in point is trying to grasp the png library that comes with ghostscript in order to fix the bug in png(1)... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 07:04:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 07:04:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17326 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17322 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 07:04:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71A4E19AF5; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F20019ACA; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:04:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B98B719AD7; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1F3D19AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <21b6d2a3c48b691f8073153cf8eb67c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:03:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have found cb useful, but it probably depends upon the particular bad style used in the original code. You want to invoke it as `cb -sj' for best results. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 11:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 11:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22371 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 10:57:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22367 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 10:57:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 10:57:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 196B619AF4; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9041619AEC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:57:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6AAC119AEC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87DD319AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08561 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h871ucj14201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309070156.h871ucj14201@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:48:45 EDT." <005f01c371df$0e59d5c0$2c9ce541@bl.belllabs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 21:56:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dave wrote: > I'ld rather not have to keep a secret and a counter for everyone I want to > exchange mail with. Messages get lost and reordered so at the very least > I need to accept some range of possible sha1ings. I also want to accept > mail from people I haven't talked to before but have proved to someone else > that they aren't spammers. I'm happier with the /mail idea than this one. Then I reiterate my second suggestion: [...] Or, and even simpler, take the token and sha it with the contents of the message. The token itself doesn't show up in any archives anywhere, and the scheme is immune to problems with bounces getting sequence numbers out of whack, and you get some modicum of integrity checking on the message itself. A way around the client problem is to build it into the MTA (but the MTA's on both sides have to support it). An alternative to this is to provide a nonce in the SMTP transaction or in header, and the result of the HMAC of the nonce keyedwith the secret shared between client and sender. We've already started doing things like this with the ESMTP AUTH stuff; MAL FROM: now has an ``AUTH'' parameter that can be hung off of it. We could add a NONCE field, too. RCPT TO: can take an AUTHSIG or something, which is some sort of signature on the nonce value. We could add an RFC822 style header called `Integrity: ' that contained the base64 encoding of both the nonce and the signature in the form, : (where is the hashing algorithm used for the HMAC construction). Ron had written: > yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that > covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, > which is why i liked the file system idea. [Note: I really enjoyed Geoff's colorful description of the spam problem subsequent to my reply to this....] I've been thinking about this, and come to some conclusions. First, that one has to do whatever it is one decides to do within the context of SMTP or ESMTP. While importing a filesystem would be a nice, elegant solution, it's just not realistic. And the reason is that it's not us that's the problem, but everyone else, and everyone else is firmly mired in the religion of the Internet, which says that SMTP is the one true way to do mail. So, sucky though the protocol is, if you want to do something that has real impact in the next one to two years, you have to do it within the context of the pre-existing theology. I don't like it, but there it is. Anyway, given that, I really think the simplest way is to do is to append some sort of signature to a email in the SMTP transaction, but it doesn't have to be nearly as complex as PGP or S/MIME; something simpler is going to raise the bar sufficiently to thwart a lot of the spammers forever. Just doing an HMAC of a nonce, keyed with a shared token, is going to stop a lot of the garbage that currently filters through. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 13:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 13:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25794 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 13:05:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25790 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 13:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 13:05:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2674919AFF; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 088AE19A86; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD86B19AA2; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D32EC19A07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8744IvC004381 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:04:18 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8744Hcj012901 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:04:17 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8744HVU000799 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:04:17 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <200309070156.h871ucj14201@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:04:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I've been thinking about this, and come to some conclusions. First, > that one has to do whatever it is one decides to do within the context > of SMTP or ESMTP. While importing a filesystem would be a nice, > elegant solution, it's just not realistic. I'm not willing to accept this. You are right, I have no argument with what you are saying, but I started out with 5-level baudot paper tapes and we're not using them any more, so the compatibility argument, while strong, can be trumped at some point by superior technology. I don't want these SPAM bastards putting one byte of data on my machine. That rules out any approach based on *SMTP. That said, you are correct that only *SMTP-based approach will have big impact in the 1-2 year time frame. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 14:35:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 14:35:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27851 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 14:35:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27847 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 14:35:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 14:35:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F183519AFA; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7534C19A89; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96AF019ADE; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE59819A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24926 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h875YNj15037 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309070534.h875YNj15037@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:04:16 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:34:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > I've been thinking about this, and come to some conclusions. First, > > that one has to do whatever it is one decides to do within the context > > of SMTP or ESMTP. While importing a filesystem would be a nice, > > elegant solution, it's just not realistic. > > I'm not willing to accept this. You are right, I have no argument with > what you are saying, but I started out with 5-level baudot paper tapes and > we're not using them any more, so the compatibility argument, while > strong, can be trumped at some point by superior technology. Hopefully, eventually, it *will* change. When I say ``it's just not realistic,'' I should qualify that a bit more. ``It's just not realistic on a large scale any time soon, where soon is defined within the next five years.'' The thing that worries me is that ``at some point'' statement; it took the world a while to get over its fascination with paper tape. What's more, I'm sure we've both seen good technology get glossed over, never fledge, and ultimately fail. Look at Betamax, for instance. > I don't want these SPAM bastards putting one byte of data on my machine. > That rules out any approach based on *SMTP. Well, gosh, they're going to do that anyway even if you go the filesystem route. Tauth transactions, attaches, and reads and writes from/to the auth file all transfer data. Ultimately, this is probably less than putting stuff in an SMTP transaction, but if you > That said, you are correct that only *SMTP-based approach will have big > impact in the 1-2 year time frame. Yeah. Sad but true. Okay, now it's time to get working. After all, ``did we stand still when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?''[*] Who's with me? - Dan C. -- [*] For our non-US readers; that's a line from the movie, `Animal House,' about college fraternities. If you ever get a chance to see it, I recommend it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 17:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 17:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 368 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 17:58:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 363 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 17:58:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 17:58:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED85319AF2; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B415619AE9; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:58:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF74F19AEE; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D8B119AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <581514-2044>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:57:16 -0400 Message-ID: <086b01c3751d$34dff620$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309070534.h875YNj15037@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:51:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Hopefully, eventually, it *will* change. When I say ``it's just not > realistic,'' I should qualify that a bit more. ``It's just not > realistic on a large scale any time soon, where soon is defined within > the next five years.'' yup > Who's with me? i'm with you captain, i can already smell the napalm burning. smells like ... victory ... can we try the 'token in the sig'? it's gotta beat ASN.1 ... btw: i'm with ron all the way, but it's not feasable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 18:00:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 18:00:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 429 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 18:00:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 425 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 18:00:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 18:00:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1A5819B0F; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A947E19AEE; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:00:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53F9819AEE; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.113.222.forward.012.net.il [80.179.113.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1438719AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (skeeve [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h8790oFW008126 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:00:50 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h8790noC008124; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:00:49 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309070900.h8790noC008124@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: <05e001c373a9$ea37d260$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:00:49 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <05e001c373a9$ea37d260$b9844051@insultant.net> you write: >bloodier? i've just about Bio-fided awk. While you were at it, did you look at BWK's current version? http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/bwk/awk.tar.gz Some things (mostly in dark corners of the language) have been fixed over the years. Does anyone know when the Plan 9 awk was forked from BWK's? Boyd: I have archive copies dating back to 1993, so, *if you're interested*, I can send you something close to the original fork time, to help you isolate what's changed. Just let me know off-line. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 18:12:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 18:12:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 685 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 18:12:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 681 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 18:12:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 18:12:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1050719B13; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C9C719B00; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:12:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4811F19B00; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B25A19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <583835-2043>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 05:11:33 -0400 Message-ID: <088701c3751f$333bd120$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200309070900.h8790noC008124@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:05:34 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd: I have archive copies dating back to 1993, ... ta, but i'm _this close_ to getting it load. i just have to deal with manitowok [wchat_t bullshit] so it'll load. i'm typing/mousing in paris but the work is getting done on dan's net in ny, with drawterm. god give me stregnth: that whar_t crap is just insane. yup i got popen/pclose/system all written. and, one more stitch, this time in my forehead and blood all over my CWU-27/P. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 21:37:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 21:37:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5154 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 21:37:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5150 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 21:37:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 21:37:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B80C619AC4; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BD4D19A9E; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DF4A19ABB; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DB9619A9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 08:36:03 EDT 2003 Received: from 192.168.2.22 ([68.37.144.8]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 08:36:01 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <46abee0349bc972af8d87c15a1815507@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <200309070156.h871ucj14201@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ebihkelkqmezywsmcmunwftwuc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:35:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ebihkelkqmezywsmcmunwftwuc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're going to have to derive a canonical form of the message so that you have something to sha1 that won't change as it traverses the network. Not hard, just need a definition. Something that includes the important headers (From:, Sender:, Reply-to:) and the body would be enough. You might want to worry about making cr-lf == lf. Then you need a way to add the signature. I'm happy with an S/MIME attachment but some people here hate S/MIME. Then you need a database of shared keys. If it were public key encryption, you could put the public half on a shared server but since these are secrets, we have to keep them to ourselves somewhere. Finally, you need a way to introduce yourself to someone and give them a token. This is always the hard part. PGP sort of solves it with trusted places to leave the public key and by passing notes that are fingerprints of the public keys. Of course, the easier you make this, the easier it is for the spammers to insert themselves. Anyways, by the time you're done, you've defined PGP. Why not use PGP? If you're trying to be simple, you don't need their encryption (which hardly anyone uses anyways) or their complicated rules for trust relationships. Then you have exactly what you're asking for and you stay compatible with some part of the world. --upas-ebihkelkqmezywsmcmunwftwuc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 6 21:57:27 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 6 21:57:24 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B15B19AF7; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F22B219AEE; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6AAC119AEC; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87DD319AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08561 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h871ucj14201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309070156.h871ucj14201@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:48:45 EDT." <005f01c371df$0e59d5c0$2c9ce541@bl.belllabs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 21:56:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dave wrote: > I'ld rather not have to keep a secret and a counter for everyone I want to > exchange mail with. Messages get lost and reordered so at the very least > I need to accept some range of possible sha1ings. I also want to accept > mail from people I haven't talked to before but have proved to someone else > that they aren't spammers. I'm happier with the /mail idea than this one. Then I reiterate my second suggestion: [...] Or, and even simpler, take the token and sha it with the contents of the message. The token itself doesn't show up in any archives anywhere, and the scheme is immune to problems with bounces getting sequence numbers out of whack, and you get some modicum of integrity checking on the message itself. A way around the client problem is to build it into the MTA (but the MTA's on both sides have to support it). An alternative to this is to provide a nonce in the SMTP transaction or in header, and the result of the HMAC of the nonce keyedwith the secret shared between client and sender. We've already started doing things like this with the ESMTP AUTH stuff; MAL FROM: now has an ``AUTH'' parameter that can be hung off of it. We could add a NONCE field, too. RCPT TO: can take an AUTHSIG or something, which is some sort of signature on the nonce value. We could add an RFC822 style header called `Integrity: ' that contained the base64 encoding of both the nonce and the signature in the form, : (where is the hashing algorithm used for the HMAC construction). Ron had written: > yeah but ... I don't even want the data coming into my machine. Is that > covered too? I really want to get these spammers rejected instantly, > which is why i liked the file system idea. [Note: I really enjoyed Geoff's colorful description of the spam problem subsequent to my reply to this....] I've been thinking about this, and come to some conclusions. First, that one has to do whatever it is one decides to do within the context of SMTP or ESMTP. While importing a filesystem would be a nice, elegant solution, it's just not realistic. And the reason is that it's not us that's the problem, but everyone else, and everyone else is firmly mired in the religion of the Internet, which says that SMTP is the one true way to do mail. So, sucky though the protocol is, if you want to do something that has real impact in the next one to two years, you have to do it within the context of the pre-existing theology. I don't like it, but there it is. Anyway, given that, I really think the simplest way is to do is to append some sort of signature to a email in the SMTP transaction, but it doesn't have to be nearly as complex as PGP or S/MIME; something simpler is going to raise the bar sufficiently to thwart a lot of the spammers forever. Just doing an HMAC of a nonce, keyed with a shared token, is going to stop a lot of the garbage that currently filters through. - Dan C. --upas-ebihkelkqmezywsmcmunwftwuc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 22:49:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 22:49:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7072 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 22:49:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7039 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 22:49:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 22:49:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3464519AFD; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0CA219AF9; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B21019AA6; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F24C3199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 09:48:11 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 09:48:10 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F5B3717.1050604@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200309070900.h8790noC008124@skeeve.com> In-Reply-To: <200309070900.h8790noC008124@skeeve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:48:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Aharon Robbins wrote: > Does anyone know when the Plan 9 awk was forked from BWK's? 19990602 was the last full import, although I think we've picked up one or two individual bug fixes since then. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 22:59:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 22:59:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7316 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 22:59:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7312 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 22:59:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 22:59:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13A0E19B15; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C84DF19AF9; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:59:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EE7D19B02; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB2519AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] awk version Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:58:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% grep version *.[chy] main.c:char *version = "version 19990602"; it's the same as on sources, 'cos i diff'd 'em first. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 23:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 23:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7811 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 23:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7807 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 23:19:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 23:19:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD1D919B1A; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6770019AF9; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:19:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4C9919B05; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.113.222.forward.012.net.il [80.179.113.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C9F6199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (skeeve [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h87EJbFW010553; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:19:38 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h87EJXq8010551; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:19:33 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309071419.h87EJXq8010551@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] awk version X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. Cc: boyd@insultant.net Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:19:33 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article you write: >brahma% grep version *.[chy] >main.c:char *version = "version 19990602"; > >it's the same as on sources, 'cos i diff'd 'em first. There's been 4 years worth of fixes since then. I do have that tarball, and can produce a diff (-c, -u, -e, as you like) against BWK's current, or I can just send you the tarball and let you do the upgrading as you like. I just want to help; it's worth synchronizing with "the one true awk" (:-) every once in a while. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 7 23:24:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 7 23:24:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7914 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Sep 2003 23:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7910 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 23:24:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 23:24:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E8B019B10; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E7019A1F; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74B0A19AF9; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD8F819A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <467968-26904>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:23:34 -0400 Message-ID: <08cd01c3754a$b14f4da0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309071419.h87EJXq8010551@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] awk version MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:16:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I just want to help; it's worth synchronizing with "the one true awk" (:-) > every once in a while. 'the one true awk' lives on sources. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 00:46:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 00:46:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10024 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 00:46:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10020 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 00:46:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 00:46:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1369D19B18; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C959619AE6; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63B7919AE6; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8C4519A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 11:45:02 EDT 2003 Received: from 192.168.2.22 ([68.37.144.8]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 11:45:01 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <712cc99ddb8fbfc58ed486f55c7829e7@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources In-Reply-To: <3F5B3717.1050604@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:45:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) BWK said something about fixing up awk quite recently. I'll ask him what state its in when he comes in next week. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 02:21:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 02:21:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11835 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 02:21:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11831 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 02:21:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 02:21:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64CA319B1B; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA6FA19A9B; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:21:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06D0B19AC2; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3718619A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7cbdcf45a5480e4d053b15cfdb2d8240@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:20:09 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) when adding new users to the system is it better to create their secstore account immediately after the auth one and have them change their password on both the auth server and secstore at the same time? or is it better to let them know they can ask you for it when they really need it? if the former, can we add sectore as an option to auth/changeuser ('create secstore account [y/n]?')? i can see why one wants to keep secstore passwords separate (and different) from the auth/keyfs one, but what's a good practice for educating the users? andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 02:27:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 02:27:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11932 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 02:27:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11928 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 02:27:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 02:27:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56EA419B2B; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B7E919A7C; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 310C719A7C; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3042D19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3838 invoked by uid 66); 7 Sep 2003 17:26:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 39505 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 17:21:48 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 17:21:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 29134 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Sep 2003 17:20:39 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86iso4ms60.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] ACME and find text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:20:39 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, today I play with acme and have a simple problem which I cant solve after reading the acme docs. How can I search a string in a file under acme like /foo under sam does? Many thanks Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 02:35:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 02:35:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12118 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 02:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12114 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 02:35:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 02:35:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1299A19B2E; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76FCA19B20; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:35:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8960319B20; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E16719ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <509db9c0a6496b03c02c46b99087cc13@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ACME and find text From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <86iso4ms60.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sqoxhfrbkghmwpofqbqtcjuoog" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:34:24 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sqoxhfrbkghmwpofqbqtcjuoog Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit select the text and right-click on it. or select it and middle-click 'Look'. there's also a very complex chord for it, which is described in the acme(1) manual pages: For example, to search for literal text one may execute Look text with button 2 or instead point at text with button 1 in any window, release button 1, then execute Look, clicking button 1 while 2 is held down. andrey ps: right clicking on acme(1) will open the manual page for acme ;) --upas-sqoxhfrbkghmwpofqbqtcjuoog Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.7.68]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 11:27:50 MDT 2003 Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h87HRjuj014595 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:45 -0600 Received: (from mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h87HRjNm014593 for andrey@plan9.ucalgary.ca; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:45 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h87HRiuj014586 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:44 -0600 Received: from imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.12.45] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for mirtchov@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h87HR9MP3101811 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-emgw2 [192.168.1.14]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h87HR91C008703 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:09 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by fsc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h87HR8P7027679 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:27:09 -0600 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4709919ABA; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0869E199DD; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:27:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 310C719A7C; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3042D19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3838 invoked by uid 66); 7 Sep 2003 17:26:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 39505 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2003 17:21:48 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2003 17:21:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 29134 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Sep 2003 17:20:39 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86iso4ms60.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] ACME and find text Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:20:39 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-Been-Here-Already: andrey Moin, today I play with acme and have a simple problem which I cant solve after reading the acme docs. How can I search a string in a file under acme like /foo under sam does? Many thanks Matthias --upas-sqoxhfrbkghmwpofqbqtcjuoog-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 02:44:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 02:44:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12265 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 02:44:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12261 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 02:44:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 02:44:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BEF119B32; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE87619B25; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:44:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EF6919B20; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 630D219AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 13:41:04 EDT 2003 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ACME and find text From: Sape Mullender From: sape@plan9.bell-labs.com In-Reply-To: <86iso4ms60.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:30:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > today I play with acme and have a simple problem which I cant solve > after reading the acme docs. How can I search a string in a file > under acme like /foo under sam does? Type the string you want to look for in the title bar, then select it with the right button. If it's a single word you can just click on it with the right button. In acme, the left button selects, the middle button executes and the right button searches or opens. If you want to look for a string that's also a file name and you right-select, you'll open the file instead of looking for the string. In that case, you can execute (middle button!) Look string That's why the word Look is already printed in most title bars. If you need to search for a regular expression, or a line number, type :/string or :number in the title bar and select with the right button. (This is a special case of right clicking on filename:linennumber as in error messages from the compiler. Sape From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 03:27:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 03:27:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13287 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 03:27:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13283 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 03:27:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 03:27:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC48E19B31; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8463C19AE6; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6F4219B25; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEECA19A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com ([135.104.53.11]) by plan9; Sun Sep 7 14:26:16 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F5B7841.9000705@lucent.com> From: Eric Grosse User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? References: <7cbdcf45a5480e4d053b15cfdb2d8240@plan9.ucalgary.ca> In-Reply-To: <7cbdcf45a5480e4d053b15cfdb2d8240@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090706030200000406030608" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:26:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090706030200000406030608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I create a secstore account immediately for new users and set their p9sk1 password to a string with, say, 80 bits of entropy so brute-force attack on sniffed challenge/response packets is infeasible. When creating the initial secstore factotum file, I encourage the new user to install an RSA key as well, for ssh to remote systems without having to type any more passwords. There are other internal procedures we're adjusting here at the Labs before making this a builtin option. Eric mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > when adding new users to the system is it better to create their > secstore account immediately after the auth one and have them change > their password on both the auth server and secstore at the same time? > or is it better to let them know they can ask you for it when they > really need it? > > if the former, can we add sectore as an option to auth/changeuser > ('create secstore account [y/n]?')? > > i can see why one wants to keep secstore passwords separate (and > different) from the auth/keyfs one, but what's a good practice for > educating the users? > > andrey --------------ms090706030200000406030608 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIyzzCC 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BMy2Wi2H75ZV+AxylFP5Bufu6SPDpQJvq/BE6rGlSvgu+NkK47rcw2jAyUV1PAfmq+KvFbnQ 7SQrB8nENAOb5Ry308nglzNgCigG3IvByJhsE0MUBXEw3oYOxujAFDo0cKsiEKQevjr0Xz88 WqkysAbwKJAfyFJVXYYOzcNi3q8xEQAAAAAAAA== --------------ms090706030200000406030608-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 03:39:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 03:39:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13491 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 03:39:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13487 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 03:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 03:39:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A557219B38; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 808FB19B08; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17A2619B08; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BAE019A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c0c961ff3835850b345e0aa09ce2209@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3F5B7841.9000705@lucent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:38:32 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I create a secstore account immediately for new users and set > their p9sk1 password to a string with, say, 80 bits of entropy > so brute-force attack on sniffed challenge/response packets is > infeasible. When creating the initial secstore factotum file, > I encourage the new user to install an RSA key as well, for > ssh to remote systems without having to type any more passwords. such a huge password would be impossible to use in our environment, where we don't have any other means of proving who a user is -- people logging in with drawterm can't be expected to remember an 80-character string, especially a random one... am I missing something? i can't see how one can get access to secstore without first having done a p9sk1 authentication.. on a different topic -- what is the syntax for an rsa key? i'm currently using a secstore entry (on a per-user, per-machine basis) for remote ssh connections similar to: key proto=pass server=some.machone service=ssh user=andrey ... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:06:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:06:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14255 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:06:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14251 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:06:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:06:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B569D19B3C; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF0FC199E1; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:06:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9374E199BB; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C00A1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01161 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h87J5Nj17542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309071905.h87J5Nj17542@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:35:59 EDT." <46abee0349bc972af8d87c15a1815507@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:05:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > You're going to have to derive a canonical form of the message > so that you have something to sha1 that won't change as it > traverses the network. Not hard, just need a definition. > Something that includes the important headers (From:, > Sender:, Reply-to:) and the body would be enough. You > might want to worry about making cr-lf == lf. That's easy enough. Btw- it thinking about it highlights a hole in my idea of the nonce/hmac of nonce method: it's vulnerable to replay attacks, unless you keep a log of nonce's. > Then you need a way to add the signature. I'm happy with an > S/MIME attachment but some people here hate S/MIME. An RFC822 header would be both easier and, I think, more efficient. > Then you need a database of shared keys. If it were public > key encryption, you could put the public half on a shared > server but since these are secrets, we have to keep them to > ourselves somewhere. Here it comes down to only expending effort approriate to the value of the information being defended. This isn't meant to be a mechanism for ensuring the absolute integrity of the message; it's meant to cut down and try to eliminate spam. Appending an HMAC to a message someplace is a low cost way to do that. How you choose to store the keys you use for that hmac is up to you. Putting them in a file in your home directory should be enough; it should be understood up front that this isn't a mechanism for fool-proof identification of the sender. > Finally, you need a way to introduce yourself to someone and > give them a token. This is always the hard part. PGP sort > of solves it with trusted places to leave the public key > and by passing notes that are fingerprints of the public keys. > Of course, the easier you make this, the easier it is for the > spammers to insert themselves. Again, it doesn't have to be foolproof. What it *does* have to do is raise the bar enough to defeat the automated address harvesters. A simple way to transfer tokens is to send someone an image (or a pointer to one) that depicts a string (maybe a sentence of diceware words or something) and use that as the secret. A human being has to look at the image to figure out what the string is, which is going to *drastically* cut down on the ability of machines to harvest addresses for spamming (at least until image recognition software gets more sophisticated). I don't care if the guy sitting next to me sees it, as long as he's not a spammer. > Anyways, by the time you're done, you've defined PGP. Why not > use PGP? If you're trying to be simple, you don't need their > encryption (which hardly anyone uses anyways) or their complicated > rules for trust relationships. Then you have exactly what > you're asking for and you stay compatible with some part of > the world. PGP solves the problem at the wrong level. Here, one can attempt to solve it at the SMTP transaction level. With PGP, that's possible, but more cumbersome; it's really set up for users to do authenticate each other. What's more, I still contend that even PGP has a much higher `startup cost' than a simple HMAC using a shared secret, where sharing the secret isn't really that important, and it's unnecessary to keep it absolutely secure. Besides, using PGP for this is like cutting butter with a chainsaw. I want something simple and lightweight. Since this *can* be really lightweight, getting vendors to incorporate it might be easier; PGP has been around for 20 years, and it's still not a part of most MUA's. Why is that? Even TLS has found it's way into outlook; why not PGP? Are there commercial restrictions? Is it just too complex? Given that it's not universal, what part of the world am I becoming incompatible with? S/MIME is similar: comparatively speaking, nobody uses it. I shouldn't need to write an ASN.1 compiler to put the base64 encoding of an HMAC in an RFC822 style header, and I shouldn't need that much scaffolding to solve this problem. Finally, despite recent changes in legislation, PGP is still crypto, and there may be export problems. An HMAC isn't; it's just hashing, and so doesn't have those problems. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:08:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:08:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14272 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:08:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14268 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:08:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:08:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8763A19B42; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0459F19B2A; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9355D19B36; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5E7019B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? In-Reply-To: <7c0c961ff3835850b345e0aa09ce2209@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:07:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > such a huge password would be impossible to use in our environment, Yes, such considerations are the reason this is not the default. I hope someday we can get factotum integrated well enough into Linux and Windows that you won't feel that way. > logging in with drawterm can't be expected to remember an 80-character I thought drawterm's time had passed and people were migrating to VNC or VMware. If not, then its security should certainly be improved (as has been recently discussed). One item could be borrowing the code from factotum for getting keys. By the way, it's not an 80 character password---just enough randomness for your environment, packed base64. 60 bits = 10 bytes might be enough. > on a different topic -- what is the syntax for an rsa key? It is what you get out of: auth/rsagen > ssh.secret.factotum and should be added to your secstore factotum file. You then auth/rsa2ssh ssh.secret.factotum > ssh.public and "cat ssh.public >> .ssh/authorized_keys" on your Unix server. I feel comfortable using the same ssh.public on remote university accounts, but wouldn't want to use a single password everywhere. Eric From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:14:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:14:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14427 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:14:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14423 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:14:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:14:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA57D19B4C; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C028B199E8; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:14:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 123F319B3F; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D101199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h87JDHj17599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309071913.h87JDHj17599@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:38:32 MDT." <7c0c961ff3835850b345e0aa09ce2209@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:13:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca writes: > Eric wrote: > > I create a secstore account immediately for new users and set > > their p9sk1 password to a string with, say, 80 bits of entropy ^^^^^^^ > > so brute-force attack on sniffed challenge/response packets is > > infeasible. When creating the initial secstore factotum file, > > I encourage the new user to install an RSA key as well, for > > ssh to remote systems without having to type any more passwords. > > such a huge password would be impossible to use in our environment, > where we don't have any other means of proving who a user is -- people > logging in with drawterm can't be expected to remember an 80-character ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > string, especially a random one... > > am I missing something? Yeah; you're confusing bits char bytes. If each character contributed eight bits to the entropy of a password, then a password with 80 bits of entropy would be only 10 bytes long; much more managable than an 80 character password. :-) Of course, in reality it takes a bit more, but not 80 characters. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:26:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:26:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14711 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:26:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14707 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:26:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:26:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 834DB19B4A; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFCAE19B36; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:26:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D3C519B36; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27692199E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e9149cfd102e890ed0e19405a20013a@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:25:01 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I thought drawterm's time had passed and people were migrating > to VNC or VMware. If not, then its security should certainly > be improved (as has been recently discussed). One item could be > borrowing the code from factotum for getting keys. By the way, drawterm has the closest look&feel to a native plan9 terminal... i've found both vnc and vmware difficult to adapt to from an end-user point of view -- they're just not the real thing... i have a vnc session that i use for things that i know are surely going to crash drawterm, but i like to stay away from it as much as possible. it's fast, but as soon as i right click some text in acme i'm reminded bluntly that it's not the real thing. ideally i would have an inexpensive EPIA board hooked to a monitor/mouse/keyboard multiplexor and just boot that as a terminal... either that or fixing drawterm... > it's not an 80 character password---just enough randomness for > your environment, packed base64. 60 bits = 10 bytes might be enough. oops, i misread the original message, my bad. > It is what you get out of: > auth/rsagen > ssh.secret.factotum > and should be added to your secstore factotum file. You then > auth/rsa2ssh ssh.secret.factotum > ssh.public > and "cat ssh.public >> .ssh/authorized_keys" on your Unix server. > I feel comfortable using the same ssh.public on remote university > accounts, but wouldn't want to use a single password everywhere. > i'm using this in linux already, didn't know how to do it in plan9. thanx! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:35:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:35:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14831 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:35:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14827 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:35:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:35:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A446019B67; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E204219B52; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E17CA19B47; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E763119B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JYavC016170 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:37 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JYZF0014727 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:35 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JYZVU016852 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:35 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs In-Reply-To: <086b01c3751d$34dff620$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:34:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > btw: i'm with ron all the way, but it's not feasable. yeah, but we're still going to set it up on the 9grid :-) It's a private party, but all of you will get engraved invites sooner or later. :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14990 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14986 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:42:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:42:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0EFD199E1; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0508719B52; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ECF7819B40; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3406199E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JfYvC016576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:41:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JfYF0015567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:41:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h87JfXVU016963 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:41:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? In-Reply-To: <2e9149cfd102e890ed0e19405a20013a@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:41:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > drawterm has the closest look&feel to a native plan9 terminal... i've > found both vnc and vmware difficult to adapt to from an end-user point > of view -- they're just not the real thing... second that. I like drawterm. > ideally i would have an inexpensive EPIA board hooked to a > monitor/mouse/keyboard multiplexor and just boot that as a terminal... working on it ... ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 04:52:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 04:52:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15383 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 04:52:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15379 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 04:52:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 04:52:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCB1919B73; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA1B219B59; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:52:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE2F919B5F; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72F2819B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93a1c3314bf929cf4a935b7fe0b7670d@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:53:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yep, drawterm every time vnc doesn't cut it vmware is too expensive From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 05:17:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 05:17:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16051 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 05:17:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16047 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 05:17:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 05:17:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4B5419B0E; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1003919B52; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:17:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2659419B52; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4164619B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <475044-26433>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:16:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c3757c$d299dfc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309071905.h87J5Nj17542@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:15:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) outlook does s/mime, but it doesn't let you play with headers :( the trouble is with the MTAs and i/we have no (or not much) control over it. i don't want the tcp connection in the first place, but if i have to accept (which i more or less have too) i wanna shut the spammers down most ricky tick. so it's SMTP, but then how to i get my UA to convince the MTA to let me tell 'em who i am. i see no easy solution to this. a token in the sig would be simple. s/mime would be much better, but then you have to teach all the world about s/mime. pgp is a train wreck. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 05:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 05:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16090 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 05:20:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16086 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 05:20:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 05:20:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD84D19B7D; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ED4619B72; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:20:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 656D319B72; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98D7919B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <329443-17876>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c3757d$300806a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] how do you usually deal with new users and secstore? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:18:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > second that. I like drawterm. me too. that way i don't have to kernel hack so i can type [non qwerty layout]. and the job gets done in ny ;) while i can hack in paris. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 10:10:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 10:10:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23141 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 10:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23137 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 10:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 10:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88A3019B3B; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5768719B00; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E942819B1D; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF64F19A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] optimizing graphics From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <471ce09875b53e578d5c784d83615cbe@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:10:39 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > can't help but feel sorry for those learning C on > EMACS. I may be worse, because I have to coach 40 freshmens Windows this autumn. I don't want to do it, then, I'm planning to do it by CDROM LINUX (Knoppix). If we could have such of Plan 9, I'll use it of course. I think to teach something in blackbox does not make sense in University. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 11:23:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 11:23:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27397 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 11:23:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27386 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 11:23:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 11:23:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBA3E19B24; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92EDB19A08; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:23:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1789919A15; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D68AF19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <97f6c2ef4d9e16dfbaf7e985261fee63@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200309071905.h87J5Nj17542@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:22:04 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The only advantage of PGP is that it's what people use. Phil Zimmermann spoke at Apple last year and said that at that time, if you measured how people encrypted their mail on the wire (when they did, which wasn't terribly often), it was virtually all using PGP's formats (they could be using PGP or gpg or something else). Everything else combined was epsilon (negligible) and PGP was the rest. His comment a year ago was that ``PGP *is* encrypted mail''. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 14:22:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 14:22:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15254 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 14:22:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15237 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 14:22:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 14:22:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BA4E19B64; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3918919A5E; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D61419B64; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19BB619A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h885LCef002562 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:21:12 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h885LBCg002561 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:21:11 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs Message-ID: <20030908072110.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200309071905.h87J5Nj17542@augusta.math.psu.edu> <97f6c2ef4d9e16dfbaf7e985261fee63@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <97f6c2ef4d9e16dfbaf7e985261fee63@collyer.net>; from Geoff Collyer on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:22:04PM -0700 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:21:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:22:04PM -0700, Geoff Collyer wrote: > > The only advantage of PGP is that it's what people use. Phil > Zimmermann spoke at Apple last year and said that at that time, if you > measured how people encrypted their mail on the wire (when they did, > which wasn't terribly often), it was virtually all using PGP's formats > (they could be using PGP or gpg or something else). Everything else > combined was epsilon (negligible) and PGP was the rest. His comment a > year ago was that ``PGP *is* encrypted mail''. If only we could get MUAs configured to handle encrypted mail by default, users would get used to it without even noticing. And only S/MIME (or PEM) would be feasible, as a self-generated certificate can then be included in the message. Not a lot of security, but we're dealing with lusers here. Once everyone has built up a collection of certificates for their correspondents, I believe that some peer pressure could trigger a quest for third-party certification. But the tools must be in place first. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:13:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:13:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28130 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:13:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28126 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:13:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:13:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29B8E19AC6; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5493419AC5; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C778419A26; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07860199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI1o-0007Z0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:09:44 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F58E827.5066474C@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spell dictionary order Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:09:30 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > What's the expected dictionary order for spell. I don't know for Plan 9, but for UNIX (through SVR4) it has always been the order produced by a simple application of "sort". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:13:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:13:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28157 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:13:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28152 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:13:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:13:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36A5819B23; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C265519A26; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B65CB19A96; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECFAF199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI2u-0007bc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:10:52 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Big Rice Message-ID: <2ed03fdc.0309061713.664ea75f@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Can a single plan9 running on vmware be connected to internet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:10:21 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I am a freshman to Plan9. The system can detect my netcard, but how can I config it? Should I build a complete network of plan9? Can I browse web in Plan9? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:14:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:14:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28168 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28164 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:14:04 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D39F19B58; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F123819ACE; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C853619AAB; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D76D5199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI2M-0007ae-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:10:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Roscigno Message-ID: <8ccb030e.0309071004.3c3bd52d@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200307271644.54094.ncj@mcs.vuw.ac.nz>, <20030827030152.GC25898@andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] VMware Workstation 4 install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:10:11 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I was unable to do a regular install, I got to the 'finish' step and the it seemed to finish properly, but the disk image never was bootable. BUT I am able to use the vmware.zip now in Vmware 4.0. I removed the USB controller, the CD drive, and the floppy drive and then started the virtual machine. I am now logged in as glenda. I will attempt to add the CD back in unless I can use an SMB mount. Here is my config file if you would like to have a look: #!/usr/bin/vmware config.version = "6" virtualHW.version = "2" displayName = "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" draw = "gdi" guestOS = "other" ide0:0.present = "TRUE" ide0:0.fileName = "disk.vmdk" ide1:0.present = "FALSE" ide1:0.deviceType = "cdrom-image" ide1:0.fileName = "plan9.iso" floppy0.startConnected = "FALSE" memsize = "96" ethernet0.present = "TRUE" ethernet0.connectionType = "nat" ide1:0.startConnected = "FALSE" tools.remindInstall = "FALSE" floppy0.fileType = "file" floppy0.fileName = "9disk.flp" isolation.tools.dnd.disable = "TRUE" uuid.location = "56 4d 69 91 38 7f 86 2f-db e6 0a c3 d0 fa 53 a6" ethernet0.addressType = "generated" ethernet0.generatedAddress = "00:0c:29:fa:53:a6" ethernet0.generatedAddressOffset = "0" usb.present = "FALSE" priority.grabbed = "normal" priority.ungrabbed = "normal" ide0:0.writeThrough = "TRUE" floppy0.present = "FALSE" crd@andrew.cmu.edu (Chad Dougherty) wrote in message news:<20030827030152.GC25898@andrew.cmu.edu>... > On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:24:09PM -0400, Kris Van Hees wrote: > > I have tried the VMWare disk image in the past, but recently I have simply > > used the standard ISO and installed from there into VMWare rather than using > > the pre-installed disk image. Last time I tried the VMWare image, it did not > > work for me either, but installing from the standard ISO did. > > > > that worked great. Thanks... > > -Chad From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:14:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:14:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28181 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28176 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:14:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B09119B90; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D29A199B7; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:13:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 894A219A0C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0B4719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI2M-0007aY-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:10:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <38858785d4d6d871a9f814a8d42b3f77@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <088701c3751f$333bd120$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:10:01 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: > god give me stregnth: that whar_t crap is just insane. You must not understand it, then. It's just like char except wide enough. Plan 9 "rune" is hardly different apart from the names. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:14:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:14:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28189 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28185 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:14:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B4FC19BA5; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAA2C19B87; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7252519A96; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7540199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI2M-0007aS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:10:18 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <345b.3f5a599b.2f936@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20f8.3f55ea9f.b73dc@blake.inputplus.co.uk>, <02e001c37260$edbcb4e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:09:49 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi boyd,, > > What will it do for > > > > exit foo > > smash it into a string. Oh dear. Why not leave awk's `exit' alone so it works as every awk script in the world expects and add `exits'? Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:14:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:14:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28205 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28201 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:14:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:14:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 515D619BA8; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C9EC19ADD; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59DFF19AAB; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 911EC199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI1n-0007Yu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:09:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F58E775.C6929955@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spanish hyphenation for troff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:09:17 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > /sys/lib/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex before running [tn]roff. Wow, that sure is nonintuitive. troff really looks in the *optional* TeX tree for its hyphenation rules? What if you don't install TeX? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:15:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:15:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28217 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:15:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28212 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:15:00 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:15:00 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF1219BB6; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE31E19ADD; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DC6E19A26; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80D70199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI1G-0007Xi-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:09:10 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F58E6DC.D3BB0594@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] rotating one's mbox Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:09:04 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) matt@pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com wrote: > I'm just looking to keep upas/fs & faces speedy > copy & delete looks the superior method, thanks It's hard to see how an incorrect algorithm can be "superior" just because it's faster. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:47:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:47:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29807 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29803 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:47:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:47:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CD2819AE6; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D335219A8B; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E94219A85; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF9AA199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <473885-16900>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:46:20 -0400 Message-ID: <008c01c375ed$ffa04ba0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309071905.h87J5Nj17542@augusta.math.psu.edu> <97f6c2ef4d9e16dfbaf7e985261fee63@collyer.net> <20030908072110.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] re: spam filtering fs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:45:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If only we could get MUAs configured to handle encrypted mail by > default, users would get used to it without even noticing. And only > S/MIME (or PEM) would be feasible, ... not sure PEM is such a good choice, 'cos many of the UA's don't do it and it means you still have to deliver the message. ron doesn't want that, nor do i. given that, a random token in the sig would avoid the 'chainsaw meets butter' syndrome. next i'd vote for s/mime. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29970 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:54:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29965 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:54:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72C9519AF0; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C78D19A89; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC68719A8B; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1066B19A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <469699-28856>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:52:32 -0400 Message-ID: <00c601c375ee$ddca6140$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:52:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > god give me stregnth: that whar_t crap is just insane. > > You must not understand it, then. that's the problem. it's too complex. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 18:55:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 18:55:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30008 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 18:55:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30004 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 18:55:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 18:55:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E22319AFB; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B84FB19AC2; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E8CC19AD3; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1029519AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <474002-15783>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:54:05 -0400 Message-ID: <00cc01c375ef$13f0fd60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <345b.3f5a599b.2f936@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] is there any good reason why awk does this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:53:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Oh dear. Why not leave awk's `exit' alone so it works as every awk > script in the world expects and add `exits'? nope. it's smashed into a string _anyway_. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 19:16:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 19:16:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30555 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 19:16:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30550 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 19:16:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 19:16:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DED7319B11; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC76C19A7C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:16:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CCF819B01; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB1CF19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h88AFlpi001978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:15:47 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Can a single plan9 running on vmware be connected to internet? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C62@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Can a single plan9 running on vmware be connected to internet? Thread-Index: AcN16al2RZ6wfpO2QpiljupPCErhbgABgBvA From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:15:27 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I am a freshman to Plan9. The system can detect my netcard, but how >can I config it? Should I build a complete network of plan9? Can I >browse web in Plan9? It depends on your VMWare config. If you are bridged and there is a DHCP = server somewhere on your LAN (by far the most common case) a ip/ipconfig is sufficient. Take a look at /rc/bin/termrc and also read the relevant = page in Wiki, http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Network_configuration/index.html As for the browsing, you'll probably want Charon, but that comes with = Inferno.=20 See http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 19:28:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 19:28:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30929 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 19:28:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30925 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 19:28:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 19:28:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D61A19B19; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7091719AEF; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:28:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60AC019B01; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9386A19AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <466641-16903>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:26:10 -0400 Message-ID: <011f01c375f3$91261280$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: "Aharon Robbins" Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309071253.h87Cr41R009888@skeeve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] Re: awk stuff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:25:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Definitely finish getting it to compile/load/run. it runs, but is buggy. hardly suprising given i had to Bio-fi it and write popen/pclose/system and some nasty stdio-ish hacks to avoid diverging too far from the original. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 19:36:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 19:36:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31285 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 19:36:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31281 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 19:36:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 19:36:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04D1719B3F; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 964BC19B33; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA21E19B04; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smith.cs.ucsb.edu (smith.cs.ucsb.edu [128.111.48.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2664919AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smith.cs.ucsb.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smith.cs.ucsb.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h888Zrpk012824 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 03:35:53 -0500 Received: (from marco@localhost) by smith.cs.ucsb.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h888Zr6u012821 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 03:35:53 -0500 From: Marco Cova To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030908083552.GB12799@smith.cs.ucsb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] [LONG] Running Plan 9 on a Acer Travelmate 521TE Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 03:35:53 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi everybody. I'm trying to run Plan 9 on an Acer Travelmate 521TE (video chipset: ATI Rage Mobility Pro AGP 2x: used to work with the Mach64 version of X under Linux). The boot process stops after echoing the following messages: Plan 9 cpu0: 497MHz GenuineIntel PentiumIII/Xeon (cpuid: AX 0x0683 DX 0x383F9FF) ELCR: 0C00 pcirouting: Cannot find south bridge PCI.255.31.7 #y0: 2 slot Intel 82365SL: port 0x3E0 irq 5 #l0: i82557: 10Mbps port 0x7000 irq 10: 0000E23074E7 48803 free pages, 195212K bytes, 734412K swap kfs...version...time... init: starting /bin/rc dossrv: serving #s/dos panic: mmukmap1: pa 81000000 entry 1000183 cpu0: exiting Pressing ctrl-t, ctrl-t, p shows, in particular, 69: vga pc 80100140 dbgpc 266ba Pwrite (Running) ut 3 st 750 bss 4e000 qpc 0 nl 0 nd lpc 80100be7 pri 10 The content of the vgainfo.txt is the following: main->snarf vga->snarf mach64xx->snarf vga->attr: vid=0x1002 vga->attr: did=0x4C4D vga->attr: 0xC0000-0xC0200=MACH64LM vga->dump vga misc E7 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 00 03 00 02 vga crt 73 4F 4F 97 52 83 B4 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 06 E0 91 87 8F 28 1F 8F B5 A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F 0C 00 0F 08 00 vga virtual 0 0 vga panning off vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 8388608 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx pci 4b730 io 8000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 004F0073 mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00030052 mach64xx VTotalDisp 018F01B4 mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 00070191 mach64xx VlineCrntVline 012B03FF mach64xx OffPitch 0A000000 mach64xx IntCntl C0200114 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 02402200 mach64xx OvrClr 5835E5E8 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 59B34456 mach64xx CurClr1 D5BB609C mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04100400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00AC0000 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A001 mach64xx MemCntl 10A57A3B mach64xx ExtMemCntl E0000C81 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF0940 mach64xx DacCntl 8701200A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000000 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00002042 mach64xx ConfigChipId 64004C4D mach64xx ConfigStat0 00C00094 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 005705AA mach64xx DspOnOff 0440057E mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000407 mach64xx LcdData 00007000 mach64xx PLL AC AC 40 4C F9 03 C0 D4 - D4 D4 00 F1 80 1B 00 00 0E CF 40 00 50 F6 AC 03 - 40 00 24 FD 00 00 00 02 mach64xx LCD ConfigPanel 00030274 mach64xx LCD GenCntl 407524DE mach64xx LCD DstnCntl 00000000 mach64xx LCD HfbPitchAddr 00000F00 mach64xx LCD HorzStretch E7F00A00 mach64xx LCD VertStretch 80000000 mach64xx LCD ExtVertStretch 0057FF00 mach64xx LCD LtGio 00007000 mach64xx LCD PowerMngmnt 0200040B mach64xx LCD ZvgPio 0C000000 mach64xx VCLK0 31619314 mach64xx VCLK1 31619314 mach64xx VCLK2 31619314 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset FA freq table offset 9FC memclk 115000000 ref_freq 29500000 ref_divider 64 min_freq 9840000 max_freq 236000000 pd 0 value 4 (|4) post = 3 mach64xx pixel clock = 65140000 ATI BIOS rom 0xfa freq 0x0 clock 0x9fc clocks: 43605 60288 53115 132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 340 0 0 16969 programmable clock: 4 clock to program: 3 reference numerator: 29500 reference denominator: 1 internal clock reference divider in plls can't find lcd bios table0 vmf 0 vmdf 40000000 vf1 0 vbw 75000000 vga->init mach64xx->init rom table offset FA freq table offset 9FC memclk 11500 memclk 11500... x 6.344828...t 6... xprec 3...fifosz 203.034483...fprec 8...prec 3...afifosz 32...fifooff 197.000000...pfc 7...rcc 9...fifoon 43.000000... dbdumpmode type=multisync75, size=800x600x32 frequency=40000000 x=800 (0x320), y=600 (0x258), z=32 (0x20) ht=1056 (0x420), shb=840 (0x348), ehb=1000 (0x3E8) shs=840 (0x348), ehs=1000 (0x3E8) vt=633 (0x279), vrs=605 (0x25D), vre=607 (0x25F) hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0 vga->attr: vid=0x1002 vga->attr: did=0x4C4D vga->attr: 0xC0000-0xC0200=MACH64LM vga->dump vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf vga misc E3 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 0A vga crt 7F 63 68 9D 69 9D277 F0 - 00 60 00 00 00 00 00 00 25D 2F257190 6025D25E A3 -7FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 50 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 41 FF 0F 00 00 vga virtual 800 600 vga panning off vga clock[0] f 31619314 vga clock[0] d i m 0 0 - 64 vga clock[0] n p q r 212 3 - 0 0 vga vm a b 16777216 0 vga vmz 8388608 vga apz 8388608 vga linear 1 mach64xx->dump mach64xx flag Ulinear|Uenhanced|Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf mach64xx pci 4b730 io 8000 pciregs mach64xx ccru 300 mach64xx HTotalDisp 00630083 mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00140068 mach64xx VTotalDisp 02570278 mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 0002025C mach64xx VlineCrntVline 012B03FF mach64xx OffPitch 19000000 mach64xx IntCntl 00000000 mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 03002600 mach64xx OvrClr 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000 mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000 mach64xx CurClr0 59B34456 mach64xx CurClr1 D5BB609C mach64xx CurOffset 00000000 mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000 mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000 mach64xx ScratchReg0 04100400 mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000 mach64xx ClockCntl 00000002 mach64xx BusCntl 7333A001 mach64xx MemCntl 10A57A3B mach64xx ExtMemCntl E0000C81 mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000 mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000 mach64xx DacRegs 00FF0940 mach64xx DacCntl 8701200A mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000000 mach64xx ConfigCntl 00000000 mach64xx ConfigChipId 64004C4D mach64xx ConfigStat0 00C00094 mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000 mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000 mach64xx DspConfig 003A0658 mach64xx DspOnOff 01580628 mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpPixWidth 00060606 mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF mach64xx LcdIndex 00000407 mach64xx LcdData 00007000 mach64xx PLL AC AC 40 4C F9 03 C0 D4 - D4 D4 00 F1 80 1B 00 00 0E CF 40 00 50 F6 AC 03 - 40 00 24 FD 00 00 00 02 mach64xx LCD ConfigPanel 00034274 mach64xx LCD GenCntl 407520DA mach64xx LCD DstnCntl 00000000 mach64xx LCD HfbPitchAddr 00000F00 mach64xx LCD HorzStretch E7F00E80 mach64xx LCD VertStretch C0000320 mach64xx LCD ExtVertStretch 0017FB00 mach64xx LCD LtGio 00007000 mach64xx LCD PowerMngmnt 0200040B mach64xx LCD ZvgPio 0C000000 mach64xx VCLK0 31619314 mach64xx VCLK1 31619314 mach64xx VCLK2 31619314 mach64xx VCLK3 0 rom table offset FA freq table offset 9FC memclk 115000000 ref_freq 29500000 ref_divider 64 min_freq 9840000 max_freq 236000000 pd 0 value 4 (|4) post = 3 mach64xx pixel clock = 65140000 main->exits Any pointer to useful documentation to solve the problem? Thanks, Marco From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 19:40:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 19:40:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31354 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 19:40:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31350 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 19:40:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 19:40:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 906BC19B59; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B450419A1F; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A0CB19A17; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.113.222.forward.012.net.il [80.179.113.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C90CE19B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (skeeve [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h88AeYFW015948; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h88AeY30015946; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309081040.h88AeY30015946@skeeve.com> To: boyd@insultant.net Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: awk stuff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > From: "boyd, rounin" > To: "Aharon Robbins" > Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> > Subject: Re: awk stuff > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:25:44 +0200 > > > Definitely finish getting it to compile/load/run. > > it runs, but is buggy. hardly suprising given i had to Bio-fi it and > write popen/pclose/system and some nasty stdio-ish hacks to > avoid diverging too far from the original. BWK's home page has the code from the awk book in it; that could be massaged into a regression test suite medium easily. I put the original 9906 awk tar ball at http://www.skeeve.com/awk-9906.tar.gz You can do a diff of that against BWK's current, whenever you're ready, and you won't have to wait for me. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 19:53:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 19:53:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31655 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 19:53:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31651 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 19:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 19:53:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9ED6219B62; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4166119A17; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:53:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84C6E19B01; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB18B19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <587600-15835>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:52:40 -0400 Message-ID: <013901c375f7$442122a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309081040.h88AeY30015946@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: awk stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:52:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > BWK's home page has the code from the awk book in it; that could > be massaged into a regression test suite medium easily. oh cool. > I put the original 9906 awk tar ball at > > http://www.skeeve.com/awk-9906.tar.gz thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 20:07:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 20:07:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32010 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 20:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32005 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 20:07:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 20:07:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9173519B8C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F4D419B45; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 674FD19A17; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C457199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9f45e00a956e22de205449a6517711bb@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spanish hyphenation for troff From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3F58E775.C6929955@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mqesverlyskdxypmwwoigubbmh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:06:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mqesverlyskdxypmwwoigubbmh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have tex installed, I found by looking at the troff source that it was using the tex hyphen rules too and that I had one installed despite not having tex. --upas-mqesverlyskdxypmwwoigubbmh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 8 11:14:47 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 604A819BA9; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C9EC19ADD; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59DFF19AAB; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 911EC199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wI1n-0007Yu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:09:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F58E775.C6929955@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spanish hyphenation for troff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:09:17 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > /sys/lib/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex before running [tn]roff. Wow, that sure is nonintuitive. troff really looks in the *optional* TeX tree for its hyphenation rules? What if you don't install TeX? --upas-mqesverlyskdxypmwwoigubbmh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 20:09:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 20:09:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32076 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 20:09:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32072 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 20:09:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 20:09:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A2A919B9D; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62CEB19B89; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:09:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACD6019B89; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C967F19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37d890c75edaa7beb7e35c3f65e89045@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spell dictionary order From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3F58E827.5066474C@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:08:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't know for Plan 9, but for UNIX (through SVR4) it has > always been the order produced by a simple application of "sort". I tried that and didn't work. Probably because the file has accented letters in it (eg.: áñé...) it seems that such thing hurts sprog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 8 22:11:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 8 22:11:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2547 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Sep 2003 22:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2543 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2003 22:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Sep 2003 22:11:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B59919B16; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 461AC19B1E; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99EA819B41; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E62E219B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Sep 8 09:10:33 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Mon Sep 8 09:10:32 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F5C7FC5.3070105@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spanish hyphenation for troff References: <3F58E775.C6929955@null.net> In-Reply-To: <3F58E775.C6929955@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:10:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: >"Fco.J.Ballesteros" wrote: > > >>/sys/lib/texmf/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex before running [tn]roff. >> >> > >Wow, that sure is nonintuitive. troff really looks in the *optional* >TeX tree for its hyphenation rules? What if you don't install TeX? > > That file is not optional. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 02:28:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 02:28:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14657 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 02:28:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14653 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 02:28:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 02:28:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09F0319A65; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B5EF19A1C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:28:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8200019A1C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF2A919A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wPfJ-0001Ya-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86iso3b43r.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] fmt and acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:15:53 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I have some more acme question and hope, its ok. What is the "plan9/acme" way to format a text paragraph which fmt and edit the result in acme again. I play with /mnt/acme but I only get a "permission denied" if I try to get data from body. Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 02:30:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 02:30:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14697 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 02:30:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14693 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 02:30:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 02:30:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B7B719A70; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EC2519A07; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43D3D19A1E; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0F6919A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a191c72118ec789ea1c0bab592e7faf@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fmt and acme From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <86iso3b43r.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xrqcmonumfglrpoksyqqqmprti" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:29:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xrqcmonumfglrpoksyqqqmprti Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Write |fmt in the tag line, select the text, button-2 on |fmt. hth Take a look at the wiki in plan9.bell-labs.com, perhaps it's said there; if it's not, you can perhaps add it there :-) --upas-xrqcmonumfglrpoksyqqqmprti Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 8 19:28:34 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F188D19A70; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B5EF19A1C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:28:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8200019A1C; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF2A919A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wPfJ-0001Ya-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86iso3b43r.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] fmt and acme Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:15:53 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I have some more acme question and hope, its ok. What is the "plan9/acme" way to format a text paragraph which fmt and edit the result in acme again. I play with /mnt/acme but I only get a "permission denied" if I try to get data from body. Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-xrqcmonumfglrpoksyqqqmprti-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 02:31:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 02:31:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14720 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 02:31:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14716 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 02:31:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 02:31:18 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BCD819A8D; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00ECB19A84; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2CDA19A84; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5726E19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 744780 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:44:40 -0500 Message-ID: <32778a9db18c5d86bd63a6f12f0aa6b8@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fmt and acme From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <86iso3b43r.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:29:52 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > What is the "plan9/acme" way to format a text paragraph which fmt > and edit the result in acme again. I play with /mnt/acme but I only > get a "permission denied" if I try to get data from body. select the text, then in the tag of the window type |fmt and execute (middle-button-click) that. you'll see that acme mail already provides the '|fmt' in the tag. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 02:35:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 02:35:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14754 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 02:35:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14750 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 02:35:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 02:35:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99A3519A9A; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DEE219A67; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 877DD19A91; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B03B519A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 744798 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:48:30 -0500 Message-ID: <16d2f27efa70d6b1ca98ab72d6c91245@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:33:42 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You must not understand it, then. It's just like char > except wide enough. Plan 9 "rune" is hardly different > apart from the names. ken and i wrote a paper about how and why it is more than 'hardly different' (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/utf.pdf). there are two important differences. first is that (old) ANSI C did not provide any formatted i/o for wchar_t, rendering them essentially useless. second, more subtle but probably more central, the way plan 9 handles encoding errors with runetochar and chartorune, by introducing the 'error rune' 0x80, is vastly more convenient and effective than the error return values set by mbtowchar stuff. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 14:18:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 14:18:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28421 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 14:18:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28416 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 14:18:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 14:18:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0131E19AF4; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F12219AEE; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58D2D19AEE; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3107919AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 82646 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 05:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 05:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 05:17:16 -0000 Received: from p9t by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h895HEn277043; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:17:16 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <528e8c88ce15cb61881ab4c35d7c9764@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ftpd and httplogin Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:17:18 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) just FYI: Ftpd ignores a directory which contains `.httplogin'. It's not mentioned in ipserv(8) though. -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 17:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 17:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13095 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 17:43:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13091 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 17:43:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 17:43:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8930219B2E; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECD7219B15; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58FB819B18; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FE9619B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wdxd-0007Dc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:34:53 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <16d2f27efa70d6b1ca98ab72d6c91245@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:34:03 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rob pike, esq. wrote: > there are two important differences. first is that (old) ANSI C > did not provide any formatted i/o for wchar_t, rendering them > essentially useless. The target clientele at the time insisted that they did not want us to specify more than the minimum necessary support, and that they would happily invoke the multibyte<->wide conversions when necessary. I remember Plauger relaying that promise. Not surprisingly, as soon as they got the capability they started pushing for the missing functions, which became part of a normative amendment to the C standard by 1995 (along with mode on the stream to control whether automatic conversion is or is not applied). > the way plan 9 handles encoding errors with runetochar > and chartorune, by introducing the 'error rune' 0x80, is vastly > more convenient and effective than the error return values set > by mbtowchar stuff. Since an encoding error should "never" occur, we thought it better to stop scanning rather that plow ahead and convert some unknown amount of garbage once synchronization has been lost. It was also not evident that there would always be a "spare" wide-character code available for in-band signaling. I think the main difference driving the designs is that the Standard C version has to accommodate a huge variety of multibyte and internal encoding systems, whereas Plan 9 could just pick one. Anyway, the C wide-character facilities are quite similar to the legacy char-based ones, so Boyd shouldn't be finding them "confusing". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 9 17:43:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 9 17:43:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13105 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Sep 2003 17:43:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13101 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2003 17:43:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Sep 2003 17:43:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45D4919B15; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 764EC19B20; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:43:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 28C8919B15; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56D9319AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wdwn-0007CW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86ekyrb0yd.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <2ed03fdc.0309061713.664ea75f@posting.google.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: Can a single plan9 running on vmware be connected to internet? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:33:54 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Big Rice writes: > I am a freshman to Plan9. The system can detect my netcard, but how > can I config it? Should I build a complete network of plan9? Can I > browse web in Plan9? You can run ip/ipconfig for dhcp or read /rc/bin/termrc. You dodnt need a complete plan9 network. It runs very well under vmware. Bis dann Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 00:52:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 00:52:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6200 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 00:52:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6196 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 00:52:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 00:52:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44A1519B80; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E1F19B75; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:52:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C121819B6A; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7E0E19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 745746 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:05:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:50:34 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Since an encoding error should "never" occur, we thought it > better to stop scanning rather that plow ahead and convert some > unknown amount of garbage once synchronization has been lost. > It was also not evident that there would always be a "spare" > wide-character code available for in-band signaling. experience tells that 'never' happens many times a day. for most tools, let's say, oh, a terminal program, cat, grep, web browser, ..., you should most certainly plow ahead. for the few programs that absolutely must not make mistakes, it's still possible to discover an error has occurred (error rune + only one byte consumed). the point - often lost on standards committees - is that convenience is often more important than universality or rigidity. i admit that our strategy is tied to utf-8. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 00:52:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 00:52:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6207 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 00:52:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6203 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 00:52:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 00:52:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9D3319B99; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74C8A19B68; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:52:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38DAE19B67; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6229F19B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 745747 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:05:28 -0500 Message-ID: <60daeacb70b35a962967fe444d298342@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:50:35 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Since an encoding error should "never" occur, we thought it > better to stop scanning rather that plow ahead and convert some > unknown amount of garbage once synchronization has been lost. > It was also not evident that there would always be a "spare" > wide-character code available for in-band signaling. experience tells that 'never' happens many times a day. for most tools, let's say, oh, a terminal program, cat, grep, web browser, ..., you should most certainly plow ahead. for the few programs that absolutely must not make mistakes, it's still possible to discover an error has occurred (error rune + only one byte consumed). the point - often lost on standards committees - is that convenience is often more important than universality or rigidity. i admit that our strategy is tied to utf-8. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 02:10:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 02:10:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8139 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 02:10:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8135 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 02:10:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 02:10:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CCA719B7D; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1616119B4F; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 188F319B69; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B2C019B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <72b594bfc91b8b53b4d2793a941fed5c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rc here docs From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <69f5b2e51adfc734027e4cf14ffa8286@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:12:00 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the main advantage of here documents as far as i can see is a syntactic one; it's nicer to see: cat << EOF don't care about ' marks. $home is where the heart is. EOF than its near-equivalent: echo 'don't care about '' marks. '^$"home^' is where the heart is.' | cat particularly when you've got lots of text as a template. balancing single quotes is very easy to get wrong. i do sometime regret the lack of here documents in the inferno shell for that reason (although actually putting them into /tmp seems a little archaic) i wonder if there might be room for a "here word" i.e. something that is equivalent to a word, but looks syntactically something like a here document. dunno what the syntax would look like though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 02:13:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 02:13:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8233 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8229 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 02:13:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CB3C19A66; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1F7619B7C; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:13:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C58F219B67; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA48D19B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wlwm-0003CE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:06:32 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863cf6j634.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:06:15 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I tried to setup a standalone cpu/auth server in VMWare as described in the Wiki. After rebooting and auth the boot process stops with "ip/ipconfig: binding device: '/net/ether0/clone' file does not exist" which is correct because there is not "ether0" in /net. It looks like that plan9 see the network interface. It reports ".ether#0: amd79c970: port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C20002729" earlier in the boot process. I tried to set ipconfig and ether in plan9.ini but this didnt solve the problem. What do I missing? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 03:10:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 03:10:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9682 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 03:10:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9678 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 03:10:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 03:10:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C08819BA2; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83E3C19B68; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EA5119B33; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A81C319B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h89I96H80708; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:09:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <863cf6j634.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zmktmipbxgepdsdzwgpctdmiic" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:09:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zmktmipbxgepdsdzwgpctdmiic Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe you need to bind -a '#l0' /net though I would expect that to be done for you. Does ls '#l0' work? --upas-zmktmipbxgepdsdzwgpctdmiic Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 9 13:13:18 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 9 13:13:16 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA3F319B91; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96D5819B73; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C58F219B67; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA48D19B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19wlwm-0003CE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:06:32 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863cf6j634.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:06:15 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Moin, I tried to setup a standalone cpu/auth server in VMWare as described in the Wiki. After rebooting and auth the boot process stops with "ip/ipconfig: binding device: '/net/ether0/clone' file does not exist" which is correct because there is not "ether0" in /net. It looks like that plan9 see the network interface. It reports ".ether#0: amd79c970: port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C20002729" earlier in the boot process. I tried to set ipconfig and ether in plan9.ini but this didnt solve the problem. What do I missing? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-zmktmipbxgepdsdzwgpctdmiic-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 04:01:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 04:01:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10759 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 04:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10755 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 04:01:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 04:01:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DC2E19BAC; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67BFC19BA1; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:01:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9527419BA1; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B958719B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id PAA23908 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:00:47 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309091900.PAA23908@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:00:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Does your cpu kernel include a driver for your network card? The message of recognition that you see may be coming from 9load, not the kernel itself. - Richard > From 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Tue Sep 9 13:13:09 2003 > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > From: Matthias Teege > Subject: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface > > Moin, > > I tried to setup a standalone cpu/auth server in VMWare as > described in the Wiki. After rebooting and auth the boot process > stops with "ip/ipconfig: binding device: '/net/ether0/clone' file > does not exist" which is correct because there is not "ether0" in > /net. > > It looks like that plan9 see the network interface. It reports > ".ether#0: amd79c970: port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C20002729" earlier in > the boot process. > > I tried to set ipconfig and ether in plan9.ini but this didnt solve > the problem. > > What do I missing? > > Many thanks > Matthias > > -- > Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de > make world not war > PGP-Key auf Anfrage > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 09:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 09:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17471 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 09:08:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17467 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:08:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:08:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D450B19BC0; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 312CD19A75; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E451019BB7; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5631619A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19wsc8-0008MX-00; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:13:40 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <87llsxec0d.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 32 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] getting mail working Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 09 Sep 2003 19:13:38 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I followed the directions on the wiki: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mail_configuration/index.html I noted that it tells you to edit the smtp.conf file, but it doesn't mention doing anything to actually start smtp or make it start automatically on boot. Setting aside for a moment sending mail to the internet, I can't even send mail to another user on the same machine. For example, if as bootes I try to send email to user rgr, this is what I get: 192.168.1.18# mail rgr lasdjkasdfdjalk Mail from 'bootes' to 'rgr' failed with error 'Invalid address'. save in /mail/box/bootes/dead.letter 102.168.1.18# I hoped that something explanatory would appear in the log files, but /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail are both empty, and /sys/log/auth has nothing new in it. I read the man pages for mail, rewrite, and smtp. Any suggestions ? --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 09:17:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 09:17:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17987 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 09:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17983 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:17:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:17:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2D9D19BC5; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4638319B7A; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:17:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF7A519B1C; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBEDB19AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getting mail working From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: <87llsxec0d.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:18:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) sounds like you did copy or bind /lib/mail/rewrite.direct to /lib/mail/rewrite From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 09:47:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 09:47:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20099 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 09:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20095 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:47:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:47:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 027DF19BD1; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 592B319BC4; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:47:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 968EB19BC4; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01EBE19BB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19wtE9-0008OB-00; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:52:57 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getting mail working References: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87fzj5ea6w.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 09 Sep 2003 19:52:55 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>>> "matt" == matt writes: matt> matt> sounds like you did copy or bind /lib/mail/rewrite.direct to /lib/mail/rewrite Copying /mail/lib/rewrite.direct to /mail/lib/rewrite helped; I had editted my domain in there but had not copied it. Now if I run faces as the different users and send mail using the mail command, the right icons pop up and the mail appears in /mail/fs/mbox/#/ appropriately. Mail with an @ sign still vanishes into the void, unless what comes after the @ sign is my own IP address. A simpler question: What is the interface you guys use for reading and sending mail on Plan 9 ? I had gotten the impression from somewhere that you could right-click on the icon in faces and it would send something to acme, which would go into a special mode with a message listing. How do you use acme for composing and sending email ? --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 10:04:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 10:04:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20869 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 10:03:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20850 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 10:03:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 10:03:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F61E19BD2; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBA0719BD2; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA15019BD2; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C74CD19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getting mail working From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: <87fzj5ea6w.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:04:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Mail with an @ sign still vanishes into the void, unless what comes >after the @ sign is my own IP address. are you sure your DNS is working ? now is the time to check /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail for reading : I have two drawterms open one runs faces & irc on monitor 1 on monitor 0 I have acme and my working windows, I have not even tried to get them to talk to each other however I can right click in faces and get a nedmail window presumably you already have upas/fs in your profile to view mail in Acme you also need to have this in your profile : bind -a /acme/mail/$cputype /bin then, middle clicking Mail in Acme will open the mail browser /mail/fs/mbox/ is also worth exploring outside of Mail I also have /usr/matt/email.eml which I use as a kind of email scratchpad I have a few commands relevant to email in there and I send it with one of them : # cat /usr/matt/email.eml | grep -v '^#' | upas/send 9fans@cse.psu.ed # tail -n 5 /sys/log/smtp # tail -n 5 /sys/log/smtp.fail From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 10:48:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 10:48:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23342 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 10:48:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23338 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 10:48:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 10:48:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B89319BC4; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 252B419BE1; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:48:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8677C19BDC; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8A41019AEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 01:46:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3F5E9072.6040705@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:46:10 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hey all, I picked up a HP Apollo PA-RISC 1.1 workstation at UMich recently. I just simply could not pass up the opportunity to snag this machine for $25. I only have one problem. The workstation is in Graphic mode and expects a 3BNC monitor and a HIL keyboard attached in order to access the boot prom. Once in boot prom, I can alter boot conditions to switch over to the serial console. I expected to find these items at my local universities, knowing most of the sysadmins around town. Unfortunately, I'm finding that these small Unis have bailed on this hardware. Recently. Does anyone have access to this hardware and want to throw it to someone that will actually use and study it? If so, email me privately. Have car, will drive Don P.S. The website will be back up soon. Yes the projects haven't stopped progressing. Thanks for your emails and queries regarding updates. http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 14:23:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 14:23:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 570 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 14:23:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 14:23:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 14:23:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B482B19BF1; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B90A419BB8; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:23:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE6AF19BF0; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEBC419BE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6f13965d0ffa470f8dcaf5847d28ca7c@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getting mail working From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:11:12 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>to view mail in Acme you also need to have this in your profile : >>bind -a /acme/mail/$cputype /bin not necessarily. another method is to start up acme once as acme /acme/*/guide which populates a right-hand column with several groups of acme applications, each represented by a text file. each file contains templates for commands, that can be edited as required before use. there are corresponding files /acme/*/readme that give quick summaries of the given application, its conventions, and its templates. see the section ``Applications and guide files'' near the end of acme(1). i said `start up acme once' because typically having set up a desired acme environment you take a snapshot using Dump then have rio's startup script (see rio(1)) run acme -l acme.dump in an appropriate window. i give acme a big window that covers most of the screen and spend most of my time in that. before shutting down each time i do a Dump, which allows me to pick up roughly where i left off. one such guide file is /acme/mail/guide. inside that is a line Mail stored click with button 2 on the word Mail (thus excluding the `stored' argument) and it starts up the mail reader. to read previously saved mail, sweep over that text with button 2 (or select the line with button 1 then click that with button 2), just as usual when working within acme. (how would you read another mailbox?) /acme/mail/readme gives many more instructions. Of course, if you were reading this within acme you could simply click with button 3 on the file name in the line above and it would immediately pop open. (Attachments are handled in a similar way, represented as a cp from /mail/fs/mbox/... to a default name, allowing you to click on the first name with button 3 to see the attachment, or use button 2 to execute the cp command, perhaps after editing.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 14:39:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 14:39:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1202 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 14:39:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1180 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 14:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 14:39:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7785519BF4; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C794B19BF0; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:39:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AD8819BF0; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B56F819BEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d86aabde69e3f9b1dfe81e6900913ec@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] getting mail working From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <6f13965d0ffa470f8dcaf5847d28ca7c@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:38:17 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) [...] > before shutting down each time i do a Dump, which allows me to pick up [...] when using my laptop (and generally everywhere else, since I've gotten used to it) I like to run a separate acme session for reading mail in the background, giving me more desktop real estate for code. the way to do this is to start acme's Mail once and dump the window into a file, say acmemail.dump. then create a function in my profile that runs acme and starts Mail off the dump file. in my case it's: fn amail { acme -l $home/acmemail.dump } at this point you can safely cover the Mail acme window with other stuff -- just right-click on the face of the new mail arriving to bring it back on top. one slight issue with this is that you need to start a second 'plumber' before running acme again, otherwise messages and files will open in both acme sessions. this won't cause any trouble for the editor itself... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 18:28:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 18:28:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11571 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11567 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 18:28:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6675819C01; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D338D19BFC; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C44819BFC; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F81C19BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19x14w-0000xV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:15:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86pti9iw79.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] drawterm cant connect to auth server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:15:33 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, after I put the correct driver for ethernet and vga in the kernel (how awkward) my standalone cpu/authserver is booting. But the auth service didnt start. On if(! test -e /rc/bin/service.auth/il566){ mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566 mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.tcp567 /rc/bin/service.auth/tcp567 mv /rc/bin/service/il566 /rc/bin/service/_il566 mv /rc/bin/service/tcp567 /rc/bin/service/_tcp567 } I get permission errors. I take a look with "ls /rc/bin/service/tcp567" for the old service but it isnt there. Then I try "mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566" and get "can't create /rc/bin/service.auth/il566, access permission denied. Thanks for any hint Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 18:28:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 18:28:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11585 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11581 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 18:28:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3AA819C05; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5292419C03; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 589DC19BFD; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DF2919BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19x15U-0000yj-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:16:32 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <864qzli2kb.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] drawterm can't auth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:16:00 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I hope this isn't a multipost but I can't find my message an the server so here is my problem. After I put the correct driver for ethernet and vga in the kernel (how awkward) my standalone cpu/authserver is booting. But the auth service didnt start. On if(! test -e /rc/bin/service.auth/il566){ mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566 mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.tcp567 /rc/bin/service.auth/tcp567 mv /rc/bin/service/il566 /rc/bin/service/_il566 mv /rc/bin/service/tcp567 /rc/bin/service/_tcp567 } I get permission errors. I take a look with "ls /rc/bin/service/tcp567" for the old service but it isnt there. Then I try "mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566" and get "can't create /rc/bin/service.auth/il566, access permission denied. Thanks for any hint Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 18:28:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 18:28:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11592 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11588 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 18:28:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 18:28:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B020C19C02; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B012219C0C; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:28:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 394A719BFE; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C76C19BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19x14w-0000xb-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:15:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86llsxiw1t.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <863cf6j634.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/cpu server didnt find the network interface Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:15:44 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes: > Maybe you need to bind -a '#l0' /net > though I would expect that to be done > for you. I didnt put the correct driver in the pcauth kernel. I'm so stupid ;-) Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 18:58:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 18:58:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12578 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 18:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12574 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 18:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 18:58:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7FB319C0D; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD95119C09; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:58:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36CCA19C09; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DD3C19BF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19x1fl-0001d9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:54:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Christian Grothaus Message-ID: <3f5ef316_1@news.uni-bielefeld.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <864qzli2kb.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Subject: [9fans] Re: drawterm can't auth Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:51:36 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias Teege wrote: > But the auth service didnt start. On > > if(! test -e /rc/bin/service.auth/il566){ > mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.il566 /rc/bin/service.auth/il566 > mv /rc/bin/service.auth/authsrv.tcp567 /rc/bin/service.auth/tcp567 > mv /rc/bin/service/il566 /rc/bin/service/_il566 > mv /rc/bin/service/tcp567 /rc/bin/service/_tcp567 > } > > I get permission errors. [...] The above command has to be run only once, so you don't need to put it in your cpurc, you can execute it in an rc window. In order to move the files, however, you first have to turn permission checking off via disk/kfscmd allow After you have moved the files, you can turn it on again with disk/kfscmd disallow See kfscmd(8) for more info. HTH Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 19:17:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 19:17:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13339 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 19:17:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13335 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 19:17:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 19:17:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EA1C19C1D; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2124B19C13; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3622119C09; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6A39F199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18450 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:16:22 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-67-154.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.67.154) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:16:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00ec01c37784$cbe421e0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <16d2f27efa70d6b1ca98ab72d6c91245@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:17:49 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I guess I somehow missed what is hard about UTF-8 synchronization. By design there is no problem. > Since an encoding error should "never" occur, we thought it > better to stop scanning rather that plow ahead and convert some > unknown amount of garbage once synchronization has been lost. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 23:39:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 23:39:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19482 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 23:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19478 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 23:39:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 23:39:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39F5119C27; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9B2219C1A; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8D7D19C1E; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4795D19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47014a671bc8fbbe7504f363f1632f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] drawterm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I was looking back in the archives and can't find the messages. Did someone recently say they've got a compilable drawterm that they're working on? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 23:44:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 23:44:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19540 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 23:44:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19536 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 23:44:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 23:44:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E373419C2D; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3005419C29; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43AA719C29; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A23B19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e4581731485220df79f070e004b3b6e@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] libhtml bug - help Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:43:26 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I am trying to track down a libhtml bug / feature. Is there anyone out there who already understands the internals of the parser? It is parsing HTML which is known to be very complex, thus it too is very complex. Its making my head hurt... -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 10 23:49:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 10 23:49:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19680 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Sep 2003 23:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19676 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 23:49:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 23:49:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 76D4719C39; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 320F419C29; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F348919C2A; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ED0C19C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <47014a671bc8fbbe7504f363f1632f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kpybziarmgcalyyeffrvtykjlk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:48:35 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kpybziarmgcalyyeffrvtykjlk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i did.. i've made some small changes to get it to compile on Solaris, Linux and FreeBSD. i've also forced the TCP_NODELAY option which was missing from the distribution one (or so I thought at the time)... --upas-kpybziarmgcalyyeffrvtykjlk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.7.68]) by plan9; Wed Sep 10 08:40:06 MDT 2003 Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8AEe2uj021797 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:40:02 -0600 Received: (from mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8AEe27r021795 for andrey@plan9.ucalgary.ca; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:40:02 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8AEe2uj021788 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:40:02 -0600 Received: from imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.12.45] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for mirtchov@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by imaps.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8AEdsMP3125634 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (ons-edns [192.168.1.12]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8AEdq1C000671 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:39:52 -0600 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8AEdAmR009178 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:39:51 -0600 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBB2D19C1F; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C19C19B06; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:39:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8D7D19C1E; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4795D19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47014a671bc8fbbe7504f363f1632f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] drawterm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.3 required=6.8 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Been-Here-Already: andrey I was looking back in the archives and can't find the messages. Did someone recently say they've got a compilable drawterm that they're working on? --upas-kpybziarmgcalyyeffrvtykjlk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 01:01:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 01:01:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21352 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21348 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 01:01:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7C3E19C1A; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B931B19AEB; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 375A219AEB; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBCD219AEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8AG0Tuj024092 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8AG0TxQ024088 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > i did.. i've made some small changes to get it to compile on Solaris, > Linux and FreeBSD. i've also forced the TCP_NODELAY option which was > missing from the distribution one (or so I thought at the time)... here's the situation with drawterm, as much as i could gather in 1/2 hour: Linux/gcc -- compiles with modifications, works FreeBSD/gcc -- compiles with modifications, works SunOS 5.8/sparc/cc -- compiles, works with a strange palette SunOS 5.8/sparc/gcc -- compiles with extensive modifications to mkfile -- but fails with: error: Error 0 ./drawterm: thr_create failed: -1 0 -1 Error 0 abort 26810 Tru64/cc -- compiles with small modifications to the mkfile -- and tons of warnings. shows login correctly, but -- a black screen afterwards Tru64/gcc -- compiles with small modifications to the mkfile -- and tons of warnings. shows black screen when ran Irix 6.5/cc -- compiles, untested Irix 6.5/gcc -- untested the strange colours and black screens could be due to the fact that all of them were displayed remotely on an X11 running on linux. the Tru64's report as OSF1/5.1 andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 04:47:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 04:47:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25366 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 04:47:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25362 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 04:47:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 04:47:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87EA419BE1; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86B1619BE8; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5E2619BA3; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (SIGBUS.nove.bg [212.50.27.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36B3D19B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (chervarium@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by SIGBUS.nove.bg (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8AJlo1L063924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:47:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from chervarium@SIGBUS.nove.bg) Message-Id: <200309101947.h8AJlo1L063924@SIGBUS.nove.bg> From: Atanas Bachvaroff Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-846930886-1063223273=:63199" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:47:46 +0300 (EEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --0-846930886-1063223273=:63199 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii On 10 Sep, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > Irix 6.5/cc -- compiles, untested Hello Andrey and I got drawterm to compile and work on IRIX 6.5 with MIPSpro 7.3. You may download it from http://SIGBUS.nove.bg/drawterm/ . I have got no gcc on the workstation to try compiling drawterm with. There are problems with the colormap as expected - right click draws blue menu. I believe the same thing causes problems on the SunOS/sparc and shall try to fix it when I have some spare time. Greetings. -- BEATVSHOMOQVIINVENITSAPIENTIAMETQVIAFFLVITPRVDENTIALIVRILVCIFERIVS --0-846930886-1063223273=:63199 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: pAD2q6MB6Q0WhgxpqBJEyTrNbICAMDCF iQA/AwUAP19/5dBNHei75lHEEQLfMACgiA1o6aAVfL892GgI3Nc/sxOoFJ4AoPi/ 8xhxmzyCog8Pv6SX7SfW5CuD =R1Kw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0-846930886-1063223273=:63199-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 06:01:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 06:01:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26660 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 06:01:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26656 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 06:01:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 06:01:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 412D419C25; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09CBD19C07; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44AB319C07; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F418B19B60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67e4d0662728cd9c542ad21896a4ea09@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:00:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) gcc takes greater liberties when optimising than Ken's compilers do, and most Plan 9 code doesn't use `volatile', so I use a wrapper (agcc) to disable some optimisations, and set CC=agcc in my [Mm]a?ke?files on Unix. cpu% cat openbsd/bin/sh/agcc #!/bin/sh # agcc - invoke gcc in ANSI mode with less-aggressive optimisation. # --writable-strings is a concession to pre-ansi programs like pre-plan-9 mk. exec gcc -ansi -pipe -fvolatile -fvolatile-global --writable-strings "$@" If your gcc implements it (e.g. on MacOS 10.2), add `-fvolatile-static'. It's probably best to start with no -O options and see if the resulting binary works correctly before trying to add -O options. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 09:56:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 09:56:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32382 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 09:56:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32378 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 09:56:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 09:56:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4061619B58; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 020EB19B0C; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:56:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CCF019B0C; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sojef.skynet.be (sojef.skynet.be [195.238.2.127]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D72419B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skynet.be (172.133-136-217.adsl.skynet.be [217.136.133.172]) by sojef.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id h8B0tkdu023818 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:55:47 +0200 (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <3F5FC818.7020507@skynet.be> From: Julien User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030906 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] french keyboard Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:55:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi , I am a very new Plan9 user and very impressed by its new ideas. I am a french speaking user and so I use a french keyboard which is actually quite difficult to use as plan9 is pre-configured for an us keyboard. After some research on the internet I did not find any way to configure it. So if the french keyboard is not yet supported can you tell me where I could find doc which explain how to hack plan9 to change this? Thanks to all ,Julien From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 11:04:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 11:04:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3200 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 11:04:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3196 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 11:04:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 11:04:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF59419B74; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBCC719B59; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:04:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E88F19B59; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A97B19B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8B23Wuj025069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:03:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8B23Wpo025065 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:03:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] french keyboard In-Reply-To: <3F5FC818.7020507@skynet.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:03:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) set yourself up with a Plan 9 update account. after your accound has been enabled (should be immediately) do: 9fs sources it will prompt you for the username and password you chose when signing up. cd into /n/sources/ -- this is the where the source repository at Bell Labs is mounted by 9fs. cd to nemo/sys/src/9/pc and you'll find files that you can put in your /sys/src/9/pc/ to enable french keyboard mappings (there are several others available there too). you'll need to recompile the kernel. after booting the new kernel you can switch between the keyboards you've enabled by pressing the F1-F5 keys.. additional documentation could be found in the 9fans archive. andrey On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Julien wrote: > Hi , > > I am a very new Plan9 user and very impressed by its new ideas. > I am a french speaking user and so I use a french keyboard which is > actually quite difficult to use as plan9 is pre-configured for an us > keyboard. > > After some research on the internet I did not find any way to configure > it. So if the french keyboard is not yet supported can you tell me where > I could find doc which explain how to hack plan9 to change this? > > Thanks to all ,Julien > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 11:07:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 11:07:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3340 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 11:07:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3335 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 11:07:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 11:07:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91CB919BA1; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 703CB19B59; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:07:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C9CE19B62; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8577D19B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1261510-3644>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:05:40 -0400 Message-ID: <015c01c37809$23ebca80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <47014a671bc8fbbe7504f363f1632f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:05:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I was looking back in the archives and can't find the messages. > Did someone recently say they've got a compilable drawterm > that they're working on? well i got a windows '98 drawterm paris/ny to work fine. not that i'm hacking drawterm. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 13:33:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 13:33:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9691 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 13:32:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9679 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 13:32:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 13:32:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8B8B19B99; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6983419B16; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:32:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A37C19B36; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F3A119AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8B4UxWc005130 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7a8174a0178308f3f67da9701f82b2ac@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <47014a671bc8fbbe7504f363f1632f02@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:31:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I was looking back in the archives and can't find the messages. > Did someone recently say they've got a compilable drawterm > that they're working on? I think my last update from the sources was about a month ago and I've built drawterm since then (Win2K/VC 6) without any problems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 15:18:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 15:18:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14719 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 15:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14715 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 15:18:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 15:18:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDF0B19B9D; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1FB219AAE; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C67819AD4; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFC3F19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <994208c3c7d3c853c14ad763310963dd@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:18:30 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > the strange colours and black screens could be due to the fact that all of > them were displayed remotely on an X11 running on linux. I happen to use drawterm resides on /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/bin with my redhat 8.0 today. I have no color problem on it. I'm much confused... The darkest point here is that I cannot enter Japanese from drawterm. However, this may help me to do my job in this autumn, teaching something Windows to our 40 newbies. Now, I can show them what is Plan 9 from Win2k at that 'computer' room. I got netkey for Linux/Windows from Emirtchov, thanks a lot. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 16:08:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 16:08:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17203 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 16:08:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17199 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 16:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 16:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1919E19BA2; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEDA119AD5; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FE7F19A87; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A87D19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <711252d7701dcf1b362e10690d7be2b5@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kbd mappings Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:07:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It would be easier if we could include the kbd mappings in the distribution. Is there any objection to do so? If there's any that I could fix I'd be happy to do so. hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 18:13:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 18:13:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23257 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 18:13:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23253 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 18:13:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 18:13:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1480819BAC; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1837319AD5; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:13:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9367219A21; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8FF919A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xNRl-0006UV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <00ec01c37784$cbe421e0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:07:30 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Bruce Ellis wrote: > I guess I somehow missed what is hard about UTF-8 synchronization. We weren't talking about a supposed problem with UTF-8, but about a supposed problem with Standard C wide-character facilities. The Standard C facility has to deal with a much wider variety of multibyte encodings. In any event, flagging a conversion error only by a specific value embedded in the converted data means that the error will be missed unless the application scans the data looking for it. Seems to me that encourages use of erroneous data. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 22:05:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 22:05:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29822 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29818 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCFFB19BDB; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D6D219BC4; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3899619BCD; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CCDC19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:06:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > flagging a conversion error only by a specific value > embedded in the converted data means that the error will > be missed unless the application scans the data looking > for it. Seems to me that encourages use of erroneous data. that argument strikes me as similar to the reasoning used by politicians when they oppose reducing the harm associated with illicit drugs on the grounds that it will encourage their use. surely it's not a matter of encouraging or discouraging the use of erroneous data, but simply of making as best a job of dealing with the situations we encounter. i'm certainly glad that when i accidentally browse a piece of latin-1 text in plan 9, i get almost all the text, with an occasional error character thrown in. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 22:13:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 22:13:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30004 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30000 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D55BB19C05; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 396A319BDF; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 506EC19BD1; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 820FB19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53a1447bf530be1a798a7182264f57ad@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <994208c3c7d3c853c14ad763310963dd@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:12:26 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I happen to use drawterm resides on /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/bin > with my redhat 8.0 today. I have no color problem on it. > I'm much confused... > displaying from linux to linux is fine, but from a proprietary UNIX (like solaris) to linux it is not. colormaps are the suspect, but i haven't investigated :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 23:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 23:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31245 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 23:02:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31241 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 23:02:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 23:02:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44FC219C0D; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FA3919A0B; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:02:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4B8F19BC4; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66F0019A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8BE1Aef014960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:01:13 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8BE19TY014959 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:01:09 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Message-ID: <20030911160106.Y2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from rog@vitanuova.com on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 02:06:48PM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:01:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 02:06:48PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > i'm certainly glad that when i accidentally browse a piece of latin-1 > text in plan 9, i get almost all the text, with an occasional error > character thrown in. That's because you have a good image processor inside your skull. And because you haven't had to solve a complex problem created by the occasional error character. I would personally rather solve the problems caused by the application of discipline than those caused by its relaxation. The question does not even arise in a purely technological context, it is sociology (will the horse bolt if I don't close the stable door?) that makes it difficult to decide whether the enforcement of strict discipline is necessary or counterproductive. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 23:18:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 23:18:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31607 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 23:18:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31603 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 23:18:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 23:18:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74B7D19BFD; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F1DD19A95; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1C3C19BD2; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D564119A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8BEHZRc003585 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:17:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8BEHWmc021387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:17:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8BEHXV29281 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:17:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200309111417.h8BEHXV29281@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0600." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:17:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > SunOS 5.8/sparc/cc -- compiles, works with a strange palette > SunOS 5.8/sparc/gcc -- compiles with extensive modifications to mkfile > -- but fails with: > error: Error 0 > ./drawterm: thr_create failed: -1 0 -1 Error 0 > abort 26810 > the strange colours and black screens could be due to the fact that all of > them were displayed remotely on an X11 running on linux. I'm using on sunos 5.8 a drawterm that I compiled in july 2002; I made minor modifications: I'm using it in 8bit color mode, to avoid the strange palette problem I get when running in 24bit colors. I also recall that without modifying, it aborts when it fails to find the endianness of the X server. Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 11 23:22:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 11 23:22:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31705 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Sep 2003 23:22:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31701 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2003 23:22:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Sep 2003 23:22:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1F5419C1B; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B188D19C01; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:22:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA9F019C01; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E377919A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20030911160106.Y2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:25:00 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's because you have a good image processor inside your skull. > And because you haven't had to solve a complex problem created by > the occasional error character. is truncating a 1MB file to 512K due to a mid-stream dud character really a better solution than just flagging the dud character itself? as you suggest, the answer is subjective, but surely the old maxim is useful: be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you generate. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 00:19:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 00:19:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 514 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 510 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C540C19BB6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0733D19BA3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E72F819BA3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0B7519A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8BFI3ef015107 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:18:05 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8BFI2hc015106 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:18:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Message-ID: <20030911171753.Z2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030911160106.Y2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from rog@vitanuova.com on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 03:25:00PM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:17:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 03:25:00PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > as you suggest, the answer is subjective, but surely the old maxim is > useful: > > be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you generate. Iff this norm is followed by everyone. Think SPAM. In my book, the deciding factor is whether the principle is enforceable. I tried programming a dialogue with a PABX a while back, where the assumption is that the operator is a human. I sympathise with Doug altogether. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 00:44:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 00:44:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1149 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 00:44:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1145 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 00:44:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 00:44:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 219B419C25; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EBD419BF4; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA25219C19; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF492199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 747576 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:58:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:42:58 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) doug, do you think the C committee ever made a mistake? your response to every comment here is that the C committee got it right and any deviation, even hypothetical, is mistaken. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 00:50:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 00:50:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1287 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1283 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 00:50:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C3A619AC6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A7F419AC6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39862199F0; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D0A19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 747586 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:03:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:48:43 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i'm certainly glad that when i accidentally browse a piece of latin-1 > text in plan 9, i get almost all the text, with an occasional error > character thrown in. precisely. the approach taken by the C standard implies you're supposed to error check the conversion and presumably yell about it, maybe exit. but the great majority of text processing code is interactive - editors, browsers, terminal programs - and must soldier on. the `error rune' solution not only solves the problem of soldiering on, it provides a way to yell and takes no code at all in the application. (if you really want to stop processing on errors, it's still a simple check; it's just that you almost never have to bother to check and i can't think of a single program that does.) -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 02:05:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 02:05:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2580 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 02:05:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2576 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 02:05:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 02:05:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E69E319C28; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 176BA19C25; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B096B19BFD; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35F7E19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8BH4Tef015908 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:04:30 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8BH4Twp015907 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:04:29 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Message-ID: <20030911190427.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from rob pike, esq. on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 08:48:43AM -0700 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:04:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 08:48:43AM -0700, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > precisely. the approach taken by the C standard implies you're > supposed to error check the conversion and presumably yell about it, > maybe exit. but the great majority of text processing code is > interactive - editors, browsers, terminal programs - and must soldier > on. the `error rune' solution not only solves the problem of > soldiering on, it provides a way to yell and takes no code at all in > the application. (if you really want to stop processing on errors, > it's still a simple check; it's just that you almost never have to > bother to check and i can't think of a single program that does.) > I'm willing to concede rob's point. In an interactive environment error checking is counterproductive if a user response would be preferable. But you can't design a standard around "the great majority of text processing code" without sacrificing the ability to deal with the exceptions. I've done a good deal of programming using Don Libes' Expect and it's quite a lesson in the cost of relying in real intelligence to deal with contingencies. MS Windows programming really brings the point home: there aren't many operations I would feel comfortable automating unsupervised. Whereas forgetting the "close" function in a pop-up error message isn't too serious, being unable to detect an out-of-memeory or out-of-disk-space condition in a background task can be catastrophic. I had a print spool completion pop-up appearing at the same time as the screen saver Ctl-Alt-Del prompt pop-up: I didn't have to identify myself before acknowledging the print completion, for example. Is something like that worth worrying about? Not really, but is not perhaps symptomatic of a programming style where all contingencies are passed on to the user except when the user isn't available, in which case they are merely glossed over until disaster strikes, at which point the RESET button comes to the rescue? Whereas in Plan 9 (and Unix) it is easy to distinguish between interactive tools and command line utilities, in Windows the distinction is very thoroughly and almost certainly intentionally blurred. In my experience very few Windows programmers actually code with unattended, unsupervised operation in mind. I think Doug's concerns, like mine, are in laying down rules that make it possible to deal with the unexpected programmatically. The ANSI-C committee, like the ITU-T, seemingly strive to remove all possible ambiguity instead of relying on the human brain to make a choice. It is a sane approach to dealing with computers, even though the compromises made in this quest may be atrocious and, I'm sure, occasionally mistaken. As compromises have to be, when trying to address conflicting requirements. What may help considerably is the acknowledgement that different needs can be addressed by different solutions. For example, Perl is a prime example of a language designed to concoct one-off solutions. Some of us have to do this on a regular basis (I know of one instance where data conversions from continually changing formats is a daily occurrence) whereas others can indulge in monumental works to be used for decades. Writing monumental works in Perl should be discouraged, I'm sure, while Limbo may be quite unsuitable as an instrument to write short sysadmin scripts. Another point worth raising (I think it was Geoff Collyer who first pointed it out) is that graphic programming is still at the level of assembly code. A lot of the decision making in interactive programming is similarly at a very low level and therefore seems extremely cumbersome. Somewhere, somehow - I'd expect rob to be the likely genius to come up with something - somebody will have the flash of inspiration that leads to second and third generation graphic languages. Until then, I think we have to accept that we don't have sufficient grounds on which to construct "standards" that address the real problem, we can only base our recommendations on traditional principles that are undoubtedly obsolete. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 02:41:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 02:41:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3222 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 02:41:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3218 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 02:41:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 02:41:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 242DB19C39; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B79AF19C25; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13B8B19C2E; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55A1419C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pr-webmail-1.demon.net ([194.159.244.51] helo=web.mail.demon.net) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19xVQU-000HTh-0W for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:40:14 +0100 Received: from cjl1.demon.co.uk ([62.254.170.97]) by web.mail.demon.net with http; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:40:14 +0100 From: chris@hollis-locke.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030911190427.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources User-Agent: Demon-WebMail/2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:40:14 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > I'm willing to concede rob's point. In an interactive environment > error checking is counterproductive if a user response would be > preferable. But you can't design a standard around "the great > majority of text processing code" without sacrificing the ability > to deal with the exceptions. > But it is very easy to write a conversion function that does do the check. If you have an exceptional requirement, then write the code for it. The general purpose library should do the most convenient thing for the majority of applications. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 10:00:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 10:00:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13946 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 10:00:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13612 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17C7219ACA; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B9EB199A3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:56:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A27C19AC8; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6C71B199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9133 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 00:55:23 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 00:55:23 -0000 Message-ID: <009501c378c8$c4c3e270$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:56:33 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i totally agree. give me a peter face rather than an IO error. tho there may be clinical examples of clever uses of ANSI-C wide characters i see a whole useable system based on the pragmatic use of Runes. > surely it's not a matter of encouraging or discouraging the use of > erroneous data, but simply of making as best a job of dealing with the > situations we encounter. > > i'm certainly glad that when i accidentally browse a piece of latin-1 > text in plan 9, i get almost all the text, with an occasional error > character thrown in. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 10:08:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 10:08:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14369 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 10:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14365 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 10:08:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 10:08:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E402219AE5; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34E4919AE5; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54ED919BE6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1659E19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <941348479fb2daf08d40720d1acd42e8@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <53a1447bf530be1a798a7182264f57ad@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:07:53 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > displaying from linux to linux is fine, but from a proprietary UNIX > (like solaris) to linux it is not. colormaps are the suspect, but i > haven't investigated :) I checked it at home from Win98SE to my home Plan 9 system using the Windows version under /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/bin, and found I have no problem other than that I must use three button emulation. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 10:18:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 10:18:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14813 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 10:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14809 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 10:18:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 10:18:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB5C819BE6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFE0719BE6; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9117119C35; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60F8A19AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:18:32 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > doug, do you think the C committee ever made a mistake? In Japan, we are taught Japanese government offcials never make mistakes. Yeah, then, we have very happy economic problem now. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 11:10:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 11:10:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17291 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 11:10:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17287 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 11:10:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 11:10:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDFBE19C35; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D7A919ACA; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D67C7199F9; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CD48199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <71e88b43fdfe6e267af02e32811d14db@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <200309111417.h8BEHXV29281@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:10:13 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm using on sunos 5.8 a drawterm that I compiled in july 2002; > I made minor modifications: I'm using it in 8bit color mode, > to avoid the strange palette problem I get when running in > 24bit colors. I also recall that without modifying, it aborts > when it fails to find the endianness of the X server. It may be worth to mention that I used 24bpp for RedHat8.0 and 16bpp for Win98SE. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 11:50:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 11:50:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19182 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 11:50:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19155 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 11:50:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 11:50:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DCCB19A78; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FF1B19AAB; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFD4C19AAB; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F8E919A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <386e58699438d17e62f7d525a0c68598@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] g++ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:50:47 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have not traced the discussion on gnu g++ port to Plan 9. As I'm now try to compile hpijs utility, I'm facing this. Is there anyone successfully using Plan 9 ported g++ by dhog? If you do what is the latest version or setting of it? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 11:53:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 11:53:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19336 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 11:53:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19295 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 11:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 11:53:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90D3119A6E; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07FEB19A7C; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:53:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF37F19AB3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09E0619A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 11 22:52:31 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Thu Sep 11 22:52:30 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F6134E1.9070401@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <386e58699438d17e62f7d525a0c68598@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <386e58699438d17e62f7d525a0c68598@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:52:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: >I have not traced the discussion on gnu g++ port to Plan 9. >As I'm now try to compile hpijs utility, I'm facing this. >Is there anyone successfully using Plan 9 ported g++ >by dhog? If you do what is the latest version or setting >of it? > > It mostly works, with some band-aids. It's not ready for prime time. I may have a go at getting it more of the way there, to avoid needing to use other operating systems to write C++, but I may not. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 11:58:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 11:58:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19668 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 11:58:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19661 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 11:58:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 11:58:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 547B719AE8; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5C0919A78; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:58:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 380A719AB3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04D7B19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <3F6134E1.9070401@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:58:31 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It mostly works, with some band-aids. It's not ready for prime time. > I may have a go at getting it more of the way there, to avoid needing > to use other operating systems to write C++, but I may not. We need c++ sometime, because others use it. Please have a go! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 12:02:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 12:02:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19834 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 12:02:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19830 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 12:02:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 12:02:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02FC319A05; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F6C9199A3; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:02:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 811FB19A05; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA02919995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02379 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8C31Oj09744 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309120301.h8C31Oj09744@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:34:03 GMT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:01:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Douglas A. Gwyn" writes: > > rob pike, esq. wrote: > > there are two important differences. first is that (old) ANSI C > > did not provide any formatted i/o for wchar_t, rendering them > > essentially useless. > > The target clientele at the time insisted that they did not want > us to specify more than the minimum necessary support, and that > they would happily invoke the multibyte<->wide conversions when > necessary. I remember Plauger relaying that promise. Not > surprisingly, as soon as they got the capability they started > pushing for the missing functions, which became part of a > normative amendment to the C standard by 1995 (along with mode > on the stream to control whether automatic conversion is or is > not applied). So you're admiting it's a hack? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 12:57:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 12:57:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21980 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 12:56:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21915 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 12:55:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 12:55:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6159A19988; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6C091998A; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49B7919A0C; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77A3319988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <724297-26414>; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:53:56 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c378e1$6f393260$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:53:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We weren't talking about a supposed problem with UTF-8, > but about a supposed problem with Standard C wide-character > facilities. The Standard C facility has to deal with a > much wider variety of multibyte encodings. i don't even understand the doc, it's straight outta µSloth: - it does X - it also does random things - it does not X runes are simpler, better designed and i can carry the doc around i my head. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 13:16:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 13:16:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22924 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 13:16:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22920 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 13:16:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 13:16:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A16F19A78; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9150919A40; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49B2319A40; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C6AE19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <724211-29204>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:13:59 -0400 Message-ID: <009f01c378e4$3cfa0240$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:13:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > But it is very easy to write a conversion function that does do the check. > If you have an exceptional requirement, then write the code for it. > The general purpose library should do the most convenient thing for the > majority of applications. except that it's not very useful. iirc the original rune code did error returns, but it was realised to be pointless, so they return the rune error char. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 13:30:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 13:30:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23601 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 13:30:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23597 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 13:30:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 13:30:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D567199B3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE1119A21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:30:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C8CC19A40; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34630199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <465339-9879>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:28:49 -0400 Message-ID: <011e01c378e6$4f22d580$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:28:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We need c++ sometime, ... no From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 13:47:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 13:47:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24375 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 13:47:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24160 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 13:42:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 13:42:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A8F919A21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFE5719A21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFE2619A21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 869DC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <011e01c378e6$4f22d580$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:41:55 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> We need c++ sometime, ... > > no because you do only complain. In the real world, we need it. kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 14:34:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 14:34:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26791 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 14:34:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26787 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 14:34:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 14:34:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F6C719A7C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF91019A2D; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDC6419A19; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9395919A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 38282 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 05:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 05:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 05:33:01 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8C5X0n390715; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:33:00 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <83a0ba88aa51d60712249234d1ce1bab@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:32:52 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "On Fri Sep 12 13:42:34 JST 2003, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:" > >> We need c++ sometime, ... > > no `We' must have been used in exclusive meaning, maybe. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 16:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 16:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32337 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 16:25:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32333 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 16:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 16:25:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E0A519AA2; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A56F19A91; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A32719A91; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57B9119A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <28e2b7f9fb013db430ff36d8ff277803@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <83a0ba88aa51d60712249234d1ce1bab@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:25:10 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > "On Fri Sep 12 13:42:34 JST 2003, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:" >> >> We need c++ sometime, ... >> > no > > `We' must have been used in exclusive meaning, maybe. What does this mean? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2226 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:17:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2218 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:17:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:17:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C28E19A60; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EB3A19A5E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 199A019A5E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6603219A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 60946 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 08:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 08:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 08:16:03 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8C8G3n422856; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:16:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:16:00 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >> >> We need c++ sometime, ... > > `We' must have been used in exclusive meaning, maybe. `we' sometimes include the person addressed (inclusive), but sometimes doesn't (exclusive). In this case, I thought boyd is not included in `We' obviously. :) But it seems boyd took it otherwise. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:30:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:30:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2774 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:30:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2770 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:30:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:30:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79C0A19A88; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40F0519A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:30:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7210119A28; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BAD1719A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 08:29:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3F6191ED.60409@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <83a0ba88aa51d60712249234d1ce1bab@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:29:17 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >`We' must have been used in exclusive meaning, maybe. > Boyd wa bakasakagen desu. Hito natsukkoi desu. :-) Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:34:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:34:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2873 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:33:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2864 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:33:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:33:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C2A419A99; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9C5119A5E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:33:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2A1719A28; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87CAB19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ce62a438b6f7aa0523332d4cca77a10@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <3F6191ED.60409@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:33:09 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>`We' must have been used in exclusive meaning, maybe. >> > Boyd wa bakasakagen desu. > Hito natsukkoi desu. :-) Yeah, I love his personality, judging from his writing here. However, if he is more productive, I love him much.☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:43:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:43:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3214 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:43:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3210 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:43:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:43:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 945E419A99; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23B8419A5E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A35E219A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 703E619A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4763ae131a392f86049a4313ff09683c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <5ce62a438b6f7aa0523332d4cca77a10@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] shared memory Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:43:38 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm getting familier with g++ on Plan 9. I stalled by the fact that hpijs uses shared memory. I remember Dave announced shared memory support on Plan 9, which could be 3ed, (my memory fades out very quickly these days...) What is the present status of shared memory for Plan 9? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:49:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:49:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3433 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:49:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3425 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:49:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:49:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1216A19AB3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3F16199A3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FF3A19A17; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (unknown [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A54DB1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <4763ae131a392f86049a4313ff09683c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:48:43 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It exists. segattach(2) and rfork(2) should get you started. You'll want to use lock(2), rendezvous(2), or thread(2) to coordinate access. pool(2) can be used to allocate pieces of it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 17:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 17:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3549 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 17:52:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3545 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 17:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 17:52:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC42F19ABA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ABFF199A3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:52:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E83B19A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1949C199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:52:08 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It exists. segattach(2) and rfork(2) should get you started. You'll > want to use lock(2), rendezvous(2), or thread(2) to coordinate access. > pool(2) can be used to allocate pieces of it. Hmm, I'm an application programmer at most, and want some more user friendly functions such as shmat() etc. Isn't it impossible? kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:26:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:26:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4895 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:26:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4890 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:26:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:26:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EEB6D19AC5; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8433319A19; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:26:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCEC519A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE57A19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <60c7fdf45121206846fb9f34f2588b77@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:25:48 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I wouldn't have called shmat `user friendly' and I don't think it's any easier to use than the Plan 9 machinery. shmat, shmget, etc. don't really do much for you; they just do what segattach does, but in a more complicated way. You still have to arrange to coordinate access by the processes sharing the memory. I think char *ss = (char *)segattach(0, "shared", nil, length); is all you need to allocate a shared segment of size `length', though you still have to actually share it, probably by forking. If the processes in question are related, you don't even need segattach, just be careful to keep per-process data on the stack (in automatic variables) and when you rfork(), be sure to include the RFMEM flag. After the rfork, parent and child will share their data segment. If you're looking for a way for unrelated processes to share memory, I think your best bet is to use the undocumented S option of ramfs: ramfs -S shared1 to create a sharable /tmp, then have all the programs that want to share the memory do: mkdir /tmp/shared1 mount -c /srv/shared1 /tmp/shared1 The 'l' permission bit on files in /tmp/shared1 can implement locks. How are you trying to share memory (or what are you trying to accomplish)? All of the above assumes that you want something like System V shared memory. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:28:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:28:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4957 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:18 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4952 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:18 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:28:18 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D0CDB19AC8; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F5D119A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3A9D19A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF9E719991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xk4z-00077S-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Newsgroup Free Message-ID: <3f60b4a8$0$10423$626a54ce@news.free.fr> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France Subject: [9fans] Mysql client on Plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:17:56 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=ADDR_FREE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) First of all, sorry if my english is not very good !! :) I had implemented an MySql client on Plan9 last year called MySqlfs (for my studies). It was almost finished. This client is typically a filesystem wich interact with a MySql server (such as ftpfs did with a ftp server). I would like to complete it (i think it is a good thing to get a database client on Plan9). So, if someone is interesting in this projet or if you have any question, i am waiting for help !!!! thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:28:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:28:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4973 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4969 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:28:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3869719AD9; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E09B19AC6; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE4EE19A9A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9ECF19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xk50-00077q-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030911190427.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:18:44 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) chris@hollis-locke.com wrote: > The general purpose library should do the most convenient thing for the > majority of applications. We disagree about that, especially for standardized libraries. The general purpose library needs to be general purpose, not have some particular preconceived purpose. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:28:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:28:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4985 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4980 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:28:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:28:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A619619AEC; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E72219AC6; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7C1719AAB; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3C8019991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xk50-00077k-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030911190427.A2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:18:33 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Lucio De Re wrote: > I think Doug's concerns, like mine, are in laying down rules that > make it possible to deal with the unexpected programmatically. Yes; in fact I think handling encoding errors is a fine example of a situation where a really good exception-handling facility would be useful. > What may help considerably is the acknowledgement that different > needs can be addressed by different solutions. Indeed, and as C is used for embedded systems that control almost everything we come in contact with these days, the natural inclination when providing new facilities is to make error handling an important component rather than an afterthought. It is easy to use {functions that provide error returns} in a lackadaisical manner; it is hard or impossible to use {functions that are overly permissive} in a safe manner. (Sorry for the braces but there would be ambiguous parsing without them.) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:29:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:29:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5002 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:29:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4995 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:29:00 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:29:00 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EB9919B03; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A30F619A9A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:28:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C43F19A9A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFEAB19991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xk50-00077e-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030911160106.Y2507@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:18:22 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > is truncating a 1MB file to 512K due to a mid-stream dud character > really a better solution than just flagging the dud character itself? > as you suggest, the answer is subjective, but surely the old maxim is > useful: > be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you generate. The trouble is, most programs are data transformers, and garbage in means garbage out *unless* the garbage is detected and an appropriate strategy used to deal with it. What is appropriate depends on the intended application. An impossible character encoding in input text data indicates that the preceding process did not do *its* job. Naturally you want to be able to handle such situations. But merely ignoring the fact that something is wrong and proceeding with the computation just propagates the error; it doesn't "fix" the situation. It probably doesn't matter much if you're just hacking, but if something important depends on having correct data, a better strategy is called for. I would hate to think that the codes sent to a respirator or pneumatic brake hadn't been correctly generated. I admit that lazy programming is more fun. So have fun, but don't think that an approach that has different goals is therefore inherently deficient. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:29:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:29:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5015 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:29:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5011 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:29:14 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:29:14 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF48419AFC; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F054019A9A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:29:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E1A819A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 997F419A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19xk4z-00077Y-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <33a4.3f60f5e6.d0774@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:18:10 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi rob, > doug, do you think the C committee ever made a mistake? your response > to every comment here is that the C committee got it right and any > deviation, even hypothetical, is mistaken. No it isn't. Doug replies generally give the reasoning behind the C committee's decision, and point out the restrictions they had to take into account. That's not the same thing. Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:42:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:42:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5354 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:42:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5350 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:42:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:42:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0760619ACE; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ACEA19A98; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0845D19A98; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CB9019A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <60c7fdf45121206846fb9f34f2588b77@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:30:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>If you're looking for a way for unrelated processes to share memory, I >>think your best bet is to use the undocumented S option of ramfs: there is also segment(3), when configured. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 18:56:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 18:56:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5724 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 18:56:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5720 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:56:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:56:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA5FC19ACE; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0366F19A19; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5439119A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AA03519991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19118 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 09:55:29 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 09:55:29 -0000 Message-ID: <005101c37914$38fda680$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: , <33a4.3f60f5e6.d0774@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:57:02 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) at their best ANSI-C wide chars were a half-baked idea. at the worst they were damaging to programming. Runes are neither. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 19:40:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 19:40:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6862 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 19:40:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6858 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 19:40:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 19:40:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5880419AC8; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4060A19AC7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B02519AC5; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9FC8B19AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 10:39:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3F61B066.5050608@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break References: <3F5E9072.6040705@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:39:18 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Have car, will drive Woo hoo! Got the Apollo booting into serial console mode. Now for the step of attaching the Thinnet card to my 100baseT network. Does anyone know how to do this or can point me to a link where I can find the proper information? Google has not been my friend to{day,night} (Pike, I'm looking at you ;-)). Then again, it could be because I've been auditing and tweaking network stacks all night... guh!@!$^ Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 20:03:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 20:03:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7395 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 20:03:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7391 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 20:03:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 20:03:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D694E19A1F; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35D2219A99; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B922019AA2; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CA01119A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 11:02:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3F61B5D6.2050907@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break References: <3F5E9072.6040705@ameritech.net> <3F61B066.5050608@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:02:30 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Does anyone know how to > do this or can point me to a link where I can find > the proper information? Hah, finally. Ok, I think I have this figured out. It looks like the simplest thing to do is to use a T connector (which I have (thanks zgs)). The T connector connects to the BNC on the Thinnet card. The cable from the T connector has an AUI endpoint, which connects to an AUI adapter. The AUI adapter is like my Asante AUI->10baseT adapter (thanks again, zgs), which converts the connection to 10baseT. Am I missing anything? Do I need to cap the naked side of the T connector in some fashion? All these questions, and more, I hope to have answered by *you* guys! The people with all the experience!!! :-) Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 21:13:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 21:13:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8993 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 21:13:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8989 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 21:13:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 21:13:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22DFF19AD7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 359D019AC0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF24F19AC7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D249919ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jjfznfmqgzjrpxyhjhqtpgyvtv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:12:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jjfznfmqgzjrpxyhjhqtpgyvtv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit man segment I wrote that for a business unit at lucent that needed globally shared segments for in memory databases. EXAMPLE Create a one megabyte segment at address 0x10000000: % bind '#g' /mnt/segment % mkdir /mnt/segment/example % echo 'va 0x10000000 0x100000' > /mnt/segment/example/ctl Put the string ``hi mom'' at the start of the segment: % echo -n hi mom > /mnt/segment/example/data Attach the segment to a process: { ulong va; va = segattach(0, "example", 0, 0); } You'll have to make a kernel with devsegment in it. --upas-jjfznfmqgzjrpxyhjhqtpgyvtv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 04:52:20 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 04:52:18 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3895C19AB3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BA7919A99; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:52:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E83B19A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1949C199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:52:08 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It exists. segattach(2) and rfork(2) should get you started. You'll > want to use lock(2), rendezvous(2), or thread(2) to coordinate access. > pool(2) can be used to allocate pieces of it. Hmm, I'm an application programmer at most, and want some more user friendly functions such as shmat() etc. Isn't it impossible? kenji --upas-jjfznfmqgzjrpxyhjhqtpgyvtv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 21:55:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 21:55:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10056 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 21:55:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10052 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 21:55:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 21:55:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B90D199B3; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 605DD19A6E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBCAC19AB0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54239199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: <011e01c378e6$4f22d580$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:54:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> We need c++ sometime, ... > > no agreed! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 21:56:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 21:56:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10079 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 21:56:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10075 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 21:56:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 21:56:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE2DF19AEC; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26E4B19AC0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:56:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B55FD19AC8; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11A3119AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8CCxkR32319 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:59:46 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break In-Reply-To: <3F61B5D6.2050907@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:59:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > Am I missing anything? > Do I need to cap the naked side of the T connector in > some fashion? Yes, you will need to terminate the connection. You should normally have a T at both ends of the cable and a terminator should be on both of them. You shouldn't just plug the cable onto the BNC connector. -- -- ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 21:56:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 21:56:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10091 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 21:56:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10087 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 21:56:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 21:56:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75FAA19B01; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 689F219AEF; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:56:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 481AF19AB0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB481199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373209dca39092fc95042263b427ceb2@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>> We need c++ sometime, ... >> >> no > > because you do only complain. > In the real world, we need it. why do we need it? to write unreadable and unmaintainable code? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 22:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 22:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10265 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 22:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10261 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 22:08:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:08:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99E9819B01; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C00BF19AEC; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DA8619AD7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E34B019A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CD7Iqw011241 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:07:19 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CD7IvH021631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:07:18 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CD7IRt013455 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:07:18 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break In-Reply-To: <3F61B5D6.2050907@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:07:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > Do I need to cap the naked side of the T connector in > some fashion? you need a 50-ohm terminator on the empty side, or the electrons will leak out, fall on the floor, and fill the room up, and then you won't be able to breath. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 22:13:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 22:13:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10351 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10347 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:13:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3274019B03; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB58F19AB2; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19A2419AD7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:12:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AF4119A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDCZqw011957 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:12:35 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDCWoG009495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:12:32 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDCWRt013615 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:12:32 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <373209dca39092fc95042263b427ceb2@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:12:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Peter Bosch wrote: > why do we need it? to write unreadable and unmaintainable code? that's certainly a big part of it. But, actually, there's a lot of C++ code out there for apps people care about, and if you can't support them, then those potential plan 9 users will go somewhere else. At some point you have to make compromises if you want to have some relevance. I'd like to see Plan 9 come back out of its vmware hole-in-the-ground. To do this, it needs users. So, yes, C++ really sucks. But, if you want to see Plan 9 in wide use (I do), then you get C++ on Plan 9. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 22:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 22:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10763 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 22:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10759 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 22:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:33:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BED319B06; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EA2619A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7066819AB2; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FD3A199DE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:32:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > So, yes, C++ really sucks. But, if you want to see Plan 9 in wide use (I > do), then you get C++ on Plan 9. I'm maintaining a large pile of C++ code under Plan9. There are some oddities, but other than that the code just runs under Plan9. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 22:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 22:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11188 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 22:46:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11184 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 22:46:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:46:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D689199DE; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E558319AD0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C0D119AF7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A63C19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3F6134E1.9070401@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:35:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i found about 8 years ago that it was rather more productive to avoid writing C++. i found it harder to maintain than some other languages. arguably it does more checking that C (say) but the scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance, not to mention private languages by operator (re)definitions made it a nightmare to read and maintain code written by others. in fact, when i came back after several to some C++ code i'd written myself, for the first time, i found i couldn't read some of my own code! sometimes it was pretty, but sometimes it was just pretty confusing. fortunately much of it didn't compile because the language had changed again, and what did compile sometimes broke because g++ was broken, so i gave up and rewrote it in something more sensible. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 12 22:51:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 12 22:51:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11304 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Sep 2003 22:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11300 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 22:51:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:51:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AAB2719B1A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE76319AF7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:51:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3464719AFA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F1F319AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDonqw015631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:50:49 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDonvH031664 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:50:49 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CDonRt014586 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:50:49 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:50:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i found about 8 years ago that it was rather more productive to avoid > writing C++. i found it harder to maintain than some other languages. that's not the issue, though. I don't write in C++ either. The issue is, that some people do, and they won't change just because Plan 9 doesn't support C++. They'll just write plan 9 off as a possible operating system. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 00:19:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 00:19:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13148 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 00:19:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13144 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 00:19:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 00:19:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9205319AEF; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B24BF19ABA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4694C19AB0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C6D819A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 748541 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:33:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:18:03 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We disagree about that, especially for standardized libraries. > The general purpose library needs to be general purpose, not > have some particular preconceived purpose. nonsense. you can't design a proper interface without some idea of how it's going to be used in practice. interfaces designed with only generality in mind are cumbrous and ugly. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 00:34:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 00:34:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13418 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 00:34:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13414 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 00:34:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 00:34:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6595419AD0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DDF819A89; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:34:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31D2A19A89; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C34619A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 2EAE0CD58; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:33:01 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory Message-ID: <20030912153301.GB3969@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <60c7fdf45121206846fb9f34f2588b77@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:33:01 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:30:57AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>If you're looking for a way for unrelated processes to share memory, I > >>think your best bet is to use the undocumented S option of ramfs: > > there is also segment(3), when configured. Did anyone else read that and wonder "how do you ment a seg?" I need more coffee. Or maybe a frosty Hires "High Resolution" root beer. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 00:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 00:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13525 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 00:37:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13521 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 00:37:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 00:37:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE53519B14; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3425919AED; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0494419B01; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 735B719AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:39:47 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i don't think i said it should not be supported. come to think of it, i use pm which is currently still in c++. if i aimed to discourage anything, it was its enthusiastic use, especially for new things. really, though, i was simply making some observations about my own experience, particularly wrt maintenance, since c++ and java enthusiasts often don't spend a lot of time maintaining large quantities of other peoples' code, and at one time, i did. actually, i still do but fortunately none of it is in c++ or java. of course, the language is only part of it, as rapidly becomes evident when reading the linux source code; even to try to find the bits one needs to examine. there's glory for you! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 01:12:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 01:12:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14223 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 01:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14219 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 01:12:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 01:12:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8487719B03; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7D4B19A14; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:12:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B823219A89; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E095E19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] auth/secuser behaviour Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:11:45 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i hit a small problem with auth/secuser today -- i tried adding a new user but mistyped the password. then when i tried again secuser exited with: "new user, but directory %s already exists\n" requiring me to have to go and rm the entry for the user in /adm/secstore/store . is this designed behaviour (what else could cause the directory to exist and the user not, except a failed attempt to run secuser)? if not, deleting the directory when a failed attempt to add a new user may be a good idea, no? not sending a diff: andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 01:13:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 01:13:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14230 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 01:13:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14226 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 01:13:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 01:13:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 009F719B22; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A30119B01; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2CA819A89; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25E4119A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <473182-9877>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:11:26 -0400 Message-ID: <00b901c37948$766a73c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <60c7fdf45121206846fb9f34f2588b77@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:11:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I wouldn't have called shmat `user friendly' ... sysVile IPC was positively hostile; a bolt-on that was very badly engineered. the message queue implementation seemed to been have done by someone who didn't understand queues and/or sleep/wakeup. the shared memory was extremely non portable. where would you like to stick the segment in your virtual address space? think of a random number, a large one, but not too large and make sure it's aligned. rfork make some things very easy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 01:37:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 01:37:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14761 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 01:37:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14757 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 01:37:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 01:37:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5205619ABA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A14419A0B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:37:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3D6F19A0C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 279B0199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a8e641f9b6f96540a2360749d11186f@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:39:47 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rob: > doug: > > We disagree about that, especially for standardized libraries. > > The general purpose library needs to be general purpose, not > > have some particular preconceived purpose. > > nonsense. you can't design a proper interface without some > idea of how it's going to be used in practice. interfaces > designed with only generality in mind are cumbrous and > ugly. not to mention that both the interfaces in question are as general as each other; they differ only in the relative implementation effort required for certain functionalities. doug: > The trouble is, most programs are data transformers, and > garbage in means garbage out *unless* the garbage is detected > and an appropriate strategy used to deal with it. "garbage in, garbage out" seems to imply that "garbage" is all or nothing. that's not the case here: the input can be littered with pieces of garbage, and the question is whether we let one piece of litter trash the whole input or just its locality. > What is appropriate depends on the intended application. given that the error has already occurred, what strategies might be appropriate? there aren't many possibilities here. > But merely ignoring the fact that something is wrong and proceeding > with the computation just propagates the error; it doesn't "fix" the > situation. the situation is not fixable at this point. the error has already occurred. if you're parsing the text, there are likely to be many other possible lexical analysis errors, and the plan 9 approach means that a dud utf8 sequence can be treated in the same way without any special code. > I would hate to think that the codes sent to a respirator or pneumatic > brake hadn't been correctly generated. the input has already been incorrectly generated. i'd hate to think that a code sent to a respirator or a pneumatic brake was ignored because an earlier one had a formatting error. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 02:14:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 02:14:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15367 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 02:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15363 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 02:14:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 02:14:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD6B419A2F; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B476119ABA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BE6A19AD0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EAAE19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Fri Sep 12 13:12:55 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:12:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In order to degrade the quality of this thread--or is it to overload it?--does anyone have any current statistics on the real use of C++ vs. C (or anything else)? This may be one of the few forums that are both informed and likely to accept the truth regarding C++. I thank my Deity that I've avoided C++ so far. Brantley On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:39:47 +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > i don't think i said it should not be supported. > come to think of it, i use pm which is currently still in c++. > > if i aimed to discourage anything, it was > its enthusiastic use, especially for new things. > really, though, i was simply making some observations > about my own experience, particularly wrt maintenance, > since c++ and java enthusiasts often don't spend a lot > of time maintaining large quantities of other peoples' > code, and at one time, i did. actually, i still do > but fortunately none of it is in c++ or java. > of course, the language is only part of it, as > rapidly becomes evident when reading the linux source code; > even to try to find the bits one needs to examine. > there's glory for you! > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 02:21:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 02:21:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15446 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 02:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15442 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 02:21:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 02:21:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5843D19B1A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9ECD19AED; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D43319AEF; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D2D19AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:20:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The industry can generate any number you'ld like to hear. Inside Lucent's BUs, C++ is the flavor of the weak. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 02:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 02:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15464 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 02:25:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15460 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 02:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 02:25:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DE1419B21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F07B519B17; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D347B19AEF; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B83C019AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8df99e6eea74ebbdf2353a51c167b60d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:24:55 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > In order to degrade the quality of this thread--or is it > to overload it?--does anyone have any current statistics on > the real use of C++ vs. C (or anything else)? This may be > one of the few forums that are both informed and likely > to accept the truth regarding C++. > > I thank my Deity that I've avoided C++ so far. > at this here university if it's graphics it's C++. others use Java, a group or two does compiler work with Python and that's it. i reimplemented a graphics language system in Haskell last year (the original was written in C++) and it was much smaller, didn't crash, and the speed was reasonable because it used the accelerated OpenGL libraries already available. it didn't impress anyone enough to say 'ok, let's switch'. the gaming industry is all C++, and that's where the undergrads want to go, so they demand to be taught in it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 03:10:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 03:10:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16482 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 03:10:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16474 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 03:10:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 03:10:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2C3119B32; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16A6B19B22; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD5CB19B27; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D894819B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9Tqw008174 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:30 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9TdT009731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9TRt022822 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Inside Lucent's BUs, C++ is the flavor of the weak. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ true! can I get a T-shirt that says this? I'd wear it around here for as long as I was allowed to live. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 03:57:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 03:57:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17949 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 03:57:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17945 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 03:57:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 03:57:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A1A5319AF7; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AAFE19B21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D2C919B21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B369519AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10019 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 18:56:24 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 18:56:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 4057 invoked by uid 991); 12 Sep 2003 18:56:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20030912185623.4056.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Brantley Coile message dated "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:12:50 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In some recent (non-Plan 9) programming I've used C++. The STL makes it a slam-dunk decision. It's just wrong to use char* instead of string, or writing yet another hand coded container instead of just typing map or vector. Any language without syntactically convenient generics and a standard set of containers is just too painful to use, in general. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:08:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:08:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18244 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18240 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:08:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:08:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D9DA19B53; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30D7C19B21; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8C9919B27; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D14C619AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <611214-27657>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:07:18 -0400 Message-ID: <00d301c37961$0853bcc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:06:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > In order to degrade the quality of this thread--or is it > to overload it?--does anyone have any current statistics on > the real use of C++ vs. C (or anything else)? i don't have any stats, but given there are a large number of machines that run windows and a large number of applications that run on it one can assume there's a lot of C++ code out there. this presumes that the authors are either masochists (writing in C) or writing C++. there are just some things you can't do in C on windows (tooltips iirc) without a lot of pain, but it's relatively trivial in C++. i just don't want to see this poison [C++] spread, but i agree with ron that without it a lotta people will not look at plan 9 -- pragmatism, ick ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:18:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:18:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18464 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:18:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18460 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:18:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:18:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C78319B32; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 967B819B27; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 634D319B45; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B2019B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <722871-23973>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:16:53 -0400 Message-ID: <00e601c37962$5f293d80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030912185623.4056.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:16:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > In some recent (non-Plan 9) programming I've used C++. The STL makes it > a slam-dunk decision. It's just wrong to use char* instead of string, > or writing yet another hand coded container instead of just typing > map or vector. Any language without syntactically > convenient generics and a standard set of containers is just too painful > to use, in general. it's called 'limbo', but no one will use it so it's C++ or python. i don't wanna write any C++ -- ever. i'm not that keen on writing python either. and i certainly don't like writing in C for user mode stuff. i have a native plan 9 awk, but it's buggy. i hate debugging C. i think i know what major bug is, but i haven't analysed it enough to work out what i did wrong, but it's to do with mangling ARGC: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/arg which i had to do 'cos of a name clash. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:26:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:26:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18692 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:26:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18688 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:26:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:26:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3DFE19B3F; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CFE519B05; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:26:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE40919AF9; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91C2919AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ad3d99dc88faf5ee61e19550968240b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zegrimoltsegngbuixfaqeualt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:25:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zegrimoltsegngbuixfaqeualt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll have some made up. --upas-zegrimoltsegngbuixfaqeualt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 14:10:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 14:10:23 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E13F19B33; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7A5419B1C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD5CB19B27; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D894819B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9Tqw008174 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:30 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9TdT009731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8CI9TRt022822 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:09:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Inside Lucent's BUs, C++ is the flavor of the weak. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ true! can I get a T-shirt that says this? I'd wear it around here for as long as I was allowed to live. ron --upas-zegrimoltsegngbuixfaqeualt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:38:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:38:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18845 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:38:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18841 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:38:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:38:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89D2819B05; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 063A319B67; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A0B819B53; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sojef.skynet.be (sojef.skynet.be [195.238.2.127]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CA9E19AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skynet.be (18.101-200-80.adsl.skynet.be [80.200.101.18]) by sojef.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id h8CJbBnV007795 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:37:11 +0200 (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <3F622069.8090908@skynet.be> From: Julien User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030906 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] french keyboard References: <3F5FC818.7020507@skynet.be> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:37:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) andrey mirtchovski wrote: > set yourself up with a Plan 9 update account. after your accound has been > enabled (should be immediately) do: > > 9fs sources > > it will prompt you for the username and password you chose when signing up. > > cd into /n/sources/ -- this is the where the source repository at Bell > Labs is mounted by 9fs. cd to nemo/sys/src/9/pc and you'll find files > that you can put in your /sys/src/9/pc/ to enable french keyboard mappings > (there are several others available there too). you'll need to recompile > the kernel. > > after booting the new kernel you can switch between the keyboards you've > enabled by pressing the F1-F5 keys.. > > additional documentation could be found in the 9fans archive. > > andrey The only problem is that I connect the internet throught a wreless ( prism2 based ) card but it is an usb card which does not seem to be supported. Perhaps is it possible to download the sources from my linux box and then copy them into plan9 ? REM : Is there a way to mount plan9 partitions from linux or mount linux partition from plan9 ? Julien From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:44:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:44:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18989 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18985 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:44:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:44:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A79D119B6D; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FB1719B62; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68A7119B14; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 40FE11998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 19:43:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3F622FE2.5050802@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:43:14 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >The issue is, that some people do, and they won't change just because Plan >9 doesn't support C++. > Right on. And as much as I may not enjoy C++, people should still be allowed to use what ever language they prefer, not enforced to use only what people think they should use. Sure, when it comes to an issue such as security controls, that may not be possible, given limits of a current technology. However, an individual shouldn't be molded into what *Bob* or *I* believe is best for them, unless they seek our guidance. Rather, I believe allowing an individual to explore their computational curiosity by supporting many flavors of a given facet ends up catering to more successful projects, overall. I don't believe the goal is as much to get users running plan9 as it is to get users to *succeed in the computer field* via plan9. Trust your technolust. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:46:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:46:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19021 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19017 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:46:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DDB419B79; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B695119B65; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31F2F19B6A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FB2C19B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <726467-29196>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:44:47 -0400 Message-ID: <011901c37966$44a07f60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2ad3d99dc88faf5ee61e19550968240b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:44:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'll have some made up. cool. i assume the 'weak' was intentional. nice pun. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:48:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:48:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19043 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19039 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:48:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:48:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85D8B19B14; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5491919B75; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFB1C19B7B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 187C019B76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 748833 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:01:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <8Lc5b.257535$It4.120621@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:46:43 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_00_10,HTML_MESSAGE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > http://home.comcast.net/~caerwyn/dict.tgz > > contains changes to dict to support the Project Gutenberg Webster dictionary > (http://promo.net/pg). Only for people too cheap to buy the OED2 :) thanks for this. one comment: the instructions have a glitch in the sam script. use this one instead. ,x//c// ,x/ & /c/ & / 1,0/

/-1d w q From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:53:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:53:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19137 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:53:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19133 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:53:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:53:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91D3B19B84; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A746819B76; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D34019B76; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88E1A19B74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8CJqctE092321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8CJqcfW030759 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030912135038.Q40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:52:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > Only for people too cheap to buy the OED2 :) It's not the cost of the OED2, it's the *shipping* charges. --lyndon (owner of the wimpy two-volume OED2 lite, on account of he had to carry it home on the bus.) ASCII Stupid Question, Get a Stupid ANSI From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 04:53:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 04:53:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19162 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 04:53:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19158 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 04:53:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 04:53:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0468A19B8F; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A5DA19B7E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB1BE19B7C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF30119B74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <475058-32152>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:01 -0400 Message-ID: <012001c37967$47436f60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F622FE2.5050802@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:51:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. that should keep you occupied ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 05:09:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 05:09:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19506 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 05:09:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19502 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 05:09:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 05:09:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C97B619B1F; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F2F619B27; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A334819B35; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 814D719B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 20:08:49 -0000 Message-ID: <3F6235D5.2050601@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <3F622FE2.5050802@ameritech.net> <012001c37967$47436f60$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:08:37 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >that should keep you occupied ;) > Nah, it's no big deal. I only audit/tweak the code paths I know I'm going to use, so in the end the code path I read/alter is very specific. It ends up being much less code than you'd think. I'm already half done and it's been 4 non-full days. Don > http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:00:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:00:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22847 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:00:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22843 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:00:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:00:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5A5019A71; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3945199FD; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D49AE199E4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DE04A1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 22:59:18 -0000 Message-ID: <3F625DCA.5040100@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:59:06 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >you need a 50-ohm terminator on the empty side > Well, I'm not cleaning this floor every few minutes to manage the electron spill, so I'd better get the terminator. I don't think my mop can handle electrons, anyway.... I found a place that sells 50ohm BNC -> 10baseT adapters online, but I do have one last question. Do i *need* a cable connecting the T to the BNC? I'm sure this is probably desirable, but is it absolutely necessary? I'm just trying to minimize the connections. Also, is the cable that I need a patch cable? I'm assuming yes. Thanks for all the tips, guys. I really appreciate this. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:16:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:16:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23120 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:16:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23116 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:16:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:16:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59FB219A6E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0D4619A0C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:16:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 426A6199E6; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48B64199D4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <721579-32153>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:15:03 -0400 Message-ID: <01a001c37983$a440e960$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F625DCA.5040100@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:14:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Well, I'm not cleaning this floor every few minutes to manage the > electron spill, so I'd better get the terminator. I don't think my > mop can handle electrons, anyway.... they won't spill. you'll wind up with a nasty SWR problem. coax must alway be terminated correctly, so chain things together you stick a T connector on each machine and at the ends of the coax you screw on 50 ohm terminators. i have seen bad things happen with unterminated coax. > I found a place that sells 50ohm BNC -> 10baseT adapters online, > but I do have one last question. Do i *need* a cable connecting the > T to the BNC? I'm sure this is probably desirable, but is it > absolutely necessary? I'm just trying to minimize the connections. i'm a bit confused, but read what i said above. you got a URL for the adapter? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:20:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:20:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23209 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:20:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23205 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:20:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:20:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15379199F4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1210F19A0C; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D20C19A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.183]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4FEE9199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 23:19:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3F62629D.20306@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break References: <3F625DCA.5040100@ameritech.net> <01a001c37983$a440e960$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:19:41 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >i'm a bit confused, but read what i said above. you got a URL for >the adapter? > Yes sir, I do. http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=BA2 As you can see, the BNC connector is a Male. The T, of course, has female connectors on the arms of the T. That's why I wondered if it was ok to connect the BNC adapter directly onto an arm of the T. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ FAI the web site is down while i recode the NetBSD kernel. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:34:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:34:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23547 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:34:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23543 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:34:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:34:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6691A19A9D; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE45219A64; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41F1D19A64; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65C26199F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <613986-27661>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:33:19 -0400 Message-ID: <01b101c37986$3126a2a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F625DCA.5040100@ameritech.net> <01a001c37983$a440e960$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F62629D.20306@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:32:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > As you can see, the BNC connector is a Male. The T, of course, has > female connectors on the arms of the T. That's why I wondered if > it was ok to connect the BNC adapter directly onto an arm of the T. i see. stick the adapter on the T and termininator on the other side of the T. you remember the vampire taps on think ethernet? sam principle. it was coax too, but high grade stuff, who name i forget, bu you're using RG-58 [50 ohms]. the high grade stuff had N connectors on the ends and was used for high [UHF/SHF] freq, high power and was low loss. iirc RG-58 losses are 3db/100m. it's good for VHF [< 300Mhz] but not so hot for UHF [> 300Mhz]. the high grade stuff was chosen for 1km 'rings'. you can see i wasted/spent a lotta time with radio stuff. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:42:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:42:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23758 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23754 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:42:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:42:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF7FB19A89; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47C8619A8B; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:42:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CE6219A65; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB288199F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 19:41:12 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Fri Sep 12 19:41:11 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F62598D.2060002@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <20030912185623.4056.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> <00e601c37962$5f293d80$b9844051@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <00e601c37962$5f293d80$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:41:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >i have a native plan 9 awk, but it's buggy. i hate debugging C. > seriously -- what's the point? you could have patched the ape awk to use exits in about five lines of code. and now you've diverged further from the source that bwk maintains. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 08:50:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 08:50:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23941 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 08:50:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23937 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 08:50:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 08:50:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E20519AA4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50FCC199FD; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 949D919A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD199199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <614071-27663>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:48:56 -0400 Message-ID: <01cb01c37988$5fed3480$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030912185623.4056.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> <00e601c37962$5f293d80$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F62598D.2060002@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:48:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > seriously -- what's the point? err, i wanted to do it and it would test out drawterm across the atlantic. why not just get ape on plan 9 and _not port anything_? > you could have patched the ape awk to use exits > in about five lines of code. i know/knew that. so, should i just fix it with rm? or should i countinue to bitch? or both? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 09:41:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 09:41:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25568 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 09:41:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25564 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 09:41:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 09:41:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B40219A6A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DA7219A1E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E27CA19A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3738E19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] awk Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:40:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yes russ, the bwk and plan 9 sources are in 'sync': brahma% pwd /usr/boyd/src/awk/bwk brahma% for (i in *.[chy]) { echo $i ; diff -b $i /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk | wc -l } awk.h 73 awkgram.y 7 b.c diff: cannot open /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/b.c: '/n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/b.c' does not exist 0 lex.c 75 lib.c 120 main.c 37 maketab.c 38 missing95.c diff: cannot open /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/missing95.c: '.../missing95.c' does not exist 0 parse.c 14 proctab.c 4 proto.h 106 run.c 403 tran.c 106 ytab.c diff: cannot open /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/ytab.c: '/n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/ytab.c' does not exist 0 ytab.h diff: cannot open /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/ytab.h: '/n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/awk/ytab.h' does not exist 0 QED From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 10:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 10:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27458 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 10:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27454 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 10:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 10:39:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65FE519AA2; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDF6919A71; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:39:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04A8E19A78; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D13719A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8D1cCj15005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309130138.h8D1cCj15005@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:12:50 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:38:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Brantley Coile writes: > > In order to degrade the quality of this thread--or is it > to overload it?--does anyone have any current statistics on > the real use of C++ vs. C (or anything else)? This may be > one of the few forums that are both informed and likely > to accept the truth regarding C++. I can't sling any numbers, but I think C++ has its place. I currently pay my rent by slinging C++ code around; *I* don't really like it, but times are rough and it's a way to make a living (of course, so is being a two-bit nuckle buster for a loan-shark...). That said, I think there are good reasons to prefer C++ over C sometimes. The existence of the STL is a good one; I don't want to have to waste my time building basic data structures and algorithms in C, and I find the STL implementation less cumbersome than any general purpose C library I've found so far. Certain things, like exceptions, can be nice to have in large applications. Personally, I'd rather just bite the bullet and program in C++ than add all this stuff to C. I think it's terrible that, e.g., Doug wants to put exceptions et al into C; if you already need them, use another language. > I thank my Deity that I've avoided C++ so far. You're a luckier man than me, I suppose. But I'd point out that a programmer can write bad code in any language. The fact that there's more bad code in C++ than in C (I'm not sure I agree with that) might just be a function of their being more C++ code out there than C code. It's also likely a function of two other things; the ability of C++ to `handle more complexity' (which, though intended to reduce complexity, usually doesn't), and because in order to write maintainable C++ code, the programmer has to be really, really disciplined, and most aren't. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 10:44:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 10:44:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27618 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 10:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27614 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 10:44:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 10:44:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D49819AA4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D418819A71; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CB9B19A1E; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40E7D19A1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 749083 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:58:22 -0500 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200309130138.h8D1cCj15005@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:43:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > But I'd point out that a programmer can write bad code in any language. > The fact that there's more bad code in C++ than in C (I'm not sure I > agree with that) might just be a function of their being more C++ code > out there than C code. if it's true - and i think it is true if we consider percentages rather than absolute numbers of lines - it's because it's harder to write good software in C++ but easier to write bad software. it's a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language that takes taste and experience to use well. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 10:46:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 10:46:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27691 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 10:46:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27687 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 10:46:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 10:46:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC89319AAB; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D70219A78; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2ABE19999; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 286D21999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8D1jTj15078 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309130145.h8D1jTj15078@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:52:38 MDT." <20030912135038.Q40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:45:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Only for people too cheap to buy the OED2 :) > > It's not the cost of the OED2, it's the *shipping* charges. Well, the CD isn't so bad. :-) The problem with the Oxford is that, frankly, it's too much dictionary for most people; it sounds stupid, but there's a lot of stuff in there most people don't need. Something like Webster's is far more accessible. - Dan C. ``Professor Weber; have you ever wondered what they etymology of the word, `Cracker' is? Perhaps you will look it up someday and send it to me written on a postcard....'' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 10:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 10:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27760 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 10:49:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27756 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 10:49:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 10:49:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 294E719AB0; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCE1D19AA5; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E62E819AA5; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22C0A19A78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <724000-29196>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:47:56 -0400 Message-ID: <033f01c37998$ff867e60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:47:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it's a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language that takes taste > and experience to use well. as dan pointed out: you can code yourself easily into a very deep hole with c++ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 10:58:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 10:58:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27986 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27982 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 10:58:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F19B19ACA; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0984E19AAB; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AFAE19AB4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E5419AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22088 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8D1vWj15196 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309130157.h8D1vWj15196@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:32:54 +0200." <01b101c37986$3126a2a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:57:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > As you can see, the BNC connector is a Male. The T, of course, has > > female connectors on the arms of the T. That's why I wondered if > > it was ok to connect the BNC adapter directly onto an arm of the T. > > i see. stick the adapter on the T and termininator on the other side of the T. Yes, what Boyd said. Stick a T onto the adapater (the base, the female part, goes onto it), and a terminator onto one side, and a piece of RG-58 coax on the other. Connect the other end of the coax to a T connected to your ethernet adapter, and stick another terminator on the other side of that T. *Both* sides must be properly terminated with a 50-Ohm resister pack (which is what a terminator is) in order to prevent signal reflection on the cable, hence the need for two terminators and two T's at the ends of the network. Also, be careful with media converters; make sure you get the power needs right. In general, I try to avoid converters and instead would get an old hub with both a 10Base-2 connector and some 10Base-T ports, and then run a cross-over cable (UTP) from that to your main hub or switch or whatever you've got. > you remember the vampire taps on think ethernet? sam principle. it > was coax too, but high grade stuff, who name i forget, bu you're using > RG-58 [50 ohms]. the high grade stuff had N connectors on the ends > and was used for high [UHF/SHF] freq, high power and was low loss. I imagine that was probably a bit before his time, but that was RG-1 coax, if I'm not mistaken. It also has a characteristic impedence of 50 Ohms. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 11:04:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 11:04:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28956 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 11:04:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28951 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 11:04:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 11:04:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7359E199E4; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A861619A6A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5B9719A88; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D558F199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8D23jqw019529 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:03:46 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8D23j9R000547 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:03:45 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8D23jRt003505 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:03:45 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Old (hardware) are hard to break In-Reply-To: <3F625DCA.5040100@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:03:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > I found a place that sells 50ohm BNC -> 10baseT adapters online, > but I do have one last question. Do i *need* a cable connecting the > T to the BNC? I'm sure this is probably desirable, but is it > absolutely necessary? I'm just trying to minimize the connections. the T should go right on the bnc on the back of the apollo. Then you connect a cable to one side, and a cable or 50ohm to the other side. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 12:30:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 12:30:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32024 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 12:30:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32020 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 12:30:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 12:30:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0FF719A9A; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C618A19A20; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:30:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6032A19A65; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B05AF19A1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07093 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8D3Tbj15625 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309130329.h8D3Tbj15625@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:43:08 PDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:29:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it's a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language that takes taste > and experience to use well. Thanks. That more eloquently expresses what I was trying to get across. Related, one can write useful, relatively clean code by ignoring 90% of the language. Unfortunately, most people don't do that. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 14:34:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 14:34:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3937 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 14:34:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3933 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 14:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 14:34:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E08A19A8B; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5769419A6A; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:34:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C25B319A6E; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 212B4199B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B106924FE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A491244; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:43 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict Message-ID: <20030913053343.GA15895@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030912135038.Q40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> <200309130145.h8D1jTj15078@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309130145.h8D1jTj15078@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 09:45:29PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > > > Only for people too cheap to buy the OED2 :) > > It's not the cost of the OED2, it's the *shipping* charges. > > Well, the CD isn't so bad. :-) The problem with the Oxford is The thing with the CD is that you can only use it under Windoze (and maybe MacOS?). I'm happy to pay for a copy, but I want to be able to -use- it once I have. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 22:22:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 22:22:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13668 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 22:22:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13664 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 22:22:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 22:22:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE56B19ABA; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED7219AAB; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1671219AB0; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 451BC19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.64.198]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003091313211601300kashme>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3F631775.1050700@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <200309130329.h8D3Tbj15625@augusta.math.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200309130329.h8D3Tbj15625@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:11:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dan Cross wrote: >>it's a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language that takes taste >>and experience to use well. > > > Thanks. That more eloquently expresses what I was trying to get across. > > Related, one can write useful, relatively clean code by ignoring 90% of > the language. Unfortunately, most people don't do that. > To that extent I use embedded C++ standards in my normal C++ development. It usually stays readable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 23:11:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 23:11:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14270 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 23:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14266 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 23:11:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 23:11:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A791C19AC9; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB42019A86; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:11:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A77E119A86; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0244219A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8DDDwK5006354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:13:58 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <01cb01c37988$5fed3480$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:13:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > so, should i just fix it with rm? or should i countinue to bitch? or both? > Oh, please continue to bitch. That's why I read 9fans. ;) Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 13 23:28:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 13 23:28:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14586 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Sep 2003 23:28:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14582 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2003 23:28:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Sep 2003 23:28:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EF4A19A65; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 826CA19A68; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:28:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 535EF19AC6; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88FCF19AB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Sat Sep 13 10:26:53 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed References: <200309130329.h8D3Tbj15625@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3F631775.1050700@nospam.com> From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F631775.1050700@nospam.com> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:26:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) While I've been successful at avoiding C++, I did begin long enough ago to co-exist with PL/I. It too was a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language. We learned a subset, as you suggest, of the language, but that didn't help you when we were faced with other's code. I remeber the first time I read the Pascal report and how excited I was that I could pretty much understand the entire language. The importance of this seems to have been lost. (But even C seems to have grown beyound understanding. I understand the C99 is a 512 page report and an upcomming book that comments on the standard is over 2,000 pages.) Any programming language that takes more than 50 pages to describe is a problem. Brantley On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:11:17 -0400, bs wrote: > Dan Cross wrote: >>> it's a very difficult, tricky, special-case-ridden language that takes taste >>> and experience to use well. >> >> >> Thanks. That more eloquently expresses what I was trying to get across. >> >> Related, one can write useful, relatively clean code by ignoring 90% of >> the language. Unfortunately, most people don't do that. >> > To that extent I use embedded C++ standards in my normal C++ development. It usually stays readable. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 06:21:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 06:21:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23719 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23715 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 06:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90B0119A92; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04C5B19A65; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B14B19A65; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EE46199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yHod-0003MH-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:20:23 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yHg3-0003HE-00 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:11:31 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yHgC-0002FC-00 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:11:40 +0200 From: Faried Nawaz Organization: Integral Domains Lines: 48 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.5 (cassava, berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:VZc2V1kg6KVk7lcFgjJOrAbvtiw= Cache-Post-Path: proxy3.xcess.net.pk!fnn@203.215.182.102 X-Cache: nntpcache 3.0.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Subject: [9fans] a kernel compile problem. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:11:16 +0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, I've tried a few things, but I can't seem to compile a kernel that will use /dev/sdD0/fossil instead of /dev/sdC0/fossil. I installed off a snapshot cd from late July; I didn't want to go through the process of converting from kfs to fossil. To compile the new kernel, I did this: - copy /sys/src/9/pc/pcf to /sys/src/9/pc/pcf2 - change the boot section: "boot boot #S/sdC0/" to "boot boot #S/sdD0/" - change the bootdir section: "bootpcf.out boot" to "bootpcf2.out boot" - copy all of /sys/lib/sysconfig/fl to /sys/lib/sysconfig/f2, and edit to change sdC0 to sdD0 - add /sys/lib/sysconfig/f2/boot, flproto, venti.conf to the bootdir section mk 'CONF=pcf2' && mk 'CONF=pcf2' install 9fat: cp pcf2.gz /n/9fat/ - edited plan9.ini to add bootfile=sdD0!9fat!9pcf2.gz bootargs=local!#S/sdD0/fossil bootdisk=local!#S/sdD0/fossil On boot, I get this: root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdD0/fossil]: user[none]:faried kfs...version...File system main inconsistent Would you like to ream it (y/n0? bad nvram key bad authentication id bad authentication domain tag = Tnone; expected Tdir; addr = 2 kfs init 7: FID1 attach to root kfs 7: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001d649 boot: can't init 9P: EOF receiving fversion reply panic: boot process died: unknown cpu0: exiting What am I missing here? Faried. -- ^self From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 06:59:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 06:59:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24465 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 06:59:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24461 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 06:59:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 06:59:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5C9F19ABB; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96DCD19A97; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17FAA19A97; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 860FE19A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5544cd0abbe4807e98a9a4715cd4a5e9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] a kernel compile problem. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:58:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Unfortunately the documentation is out of date. In order to use 9pcf, you need to put your fossil configuration (flproto) on the fossil disk itself using fossil/conf. Similarly the venti configuration should be written using venti/conf. Then you can use the stock pcf kernel. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 07:29:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 07:29:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25281 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 07:29:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25277 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 07:29:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 07:29:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A180619AC9; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B284B19A9B; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A036B19A9B; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E58D219A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yIs0-0003nn-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:27:56 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yIrz-0003nf-00 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:27:55 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yIs7-00058K-00 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:28:03 +0200 From: Faried Nawaz Organization: Integral Domains Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <5544cd0abbe4807e98a9a4715cd4a5e9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org In-Reply-To: <5544cd0abbe4807e98a9a4715cd4a5e9@plan9.bell-labs.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:58:34 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.5 (cassava, berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:TDTaPlLSwm72qUnUjdqjNl+Qsvc= Cache-Post-Path: proxy3.xcess.net.pk!fnn@203.215.182.102 X-Cache: nntpcache 3.0.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Subject: [9fans] Re: a kernel compile problem. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 03:28:00 +0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Russ Cox" writes: In order to use 9pcf, you need to put your fossil configuration (flproto) on the fossil disk itself using fossil/conf. Similarly the venti configuration should be written using venti/conf. That worked perfectly. Thanks! Faried. -- ^self From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 21:32:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 21:32:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11173 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 21:32:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11169 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 21:32:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 21:32:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85DE419AC1; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4076819A9E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:32:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90C1619A9E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4B6F19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19yW2f-0007U9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:31:49 +0200 Received: from [219.65.132.216] (helo=nivas) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19yW2e-0007fy-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:31:49 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Message-Id: <20030914144757.30e9b14c.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:47:57 +0530 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Charles, On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:39:47 +0100 C H Forsyth wrote: >... > since c++ and java enthusiasts often don't spend a lot I'm interested that you lump in Java with C++ here, since I thought that Java had removed most of the things that you listed as being difficult to control in C++. Java also adds interfaces, which addresses the single biggest flaw (IMHO) of C++. (Types should be based on what things do, not on how they are constructed) What is it about the Java language that you think causes the trouble? (of course, there are many things about Java implementations to dislike.) Looking back at your previous message, perhaps it is the "scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance", in which case are there any "Object Oriented" languages that you think are OK? (I'm assuming that you don't class Limbo as "Object Oriented" here! :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 21:55:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 21:55:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11659 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 21:55:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11655 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 21:55:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 21:55:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E243D19ADA; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A9A819A9E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E9E119AA1; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04AC019A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Sun Sep 14 08:53:34 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <20030914144757.30e9b14c.martin@parvat.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030914144757.30e9b14c.martin@parvat.com> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:53:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:47:57 +0530, Martin C.Atkins wrote: > Looking back at your previous message, perhaps it is the > "scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance", in > which case are there any "Object Oriented" languages that you think > are OK? I'm not Charles, but I also answer. Have you seen Oberon-2? It is OO done well. Brantley Coile From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 14 22:06:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 14 22:06:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11852 invoked by uid 1020); 14 Sep 2003 22:06:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11848 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 22:06:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 22:06:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1674619AE0; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69DB119A9E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7492F19A9E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 478E419A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8ED64kK023570 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:06:04 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C66@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] g++ Thread-Index: AcN6v4CPtI7IkW/sRc6hIZXjKbkCegAAEOhg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:05:52 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Looking back at your previous message, perhaps it is the >> "scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance", in >> which case are there any "Object Oriented" languages that you think >> are OK? > >I'm not Charles, but I also answer. > >Have you seen Oberon-2? It is OO done well. > > Brantley Coile > > Oberon-2 pushes complexity out of the language and into the libraries, = not=20 unlike C. The part I miss most in it is some form of generics. Although = I must agree that its O-O is rather well-designed, indeed. There appears to be some nasty law of physics at work here: the simple = and elegant O-O languages are easy to use right, but at the same time lack = the single biggest trump of O-O -- generics; while the languages that = contain generics are cumbersome and ugly. Go figure. Tiit Lankots From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 01:14:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 01:14:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15521 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 01:14:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15517 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 01:14:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 01:14:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E98D19AE5; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C854519A1D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:14:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A79F619A5E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBA6E19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 749876 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:28:39 -0500 Message-ID: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C66@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:13:14 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There appears to be some nasty law of physics at work here: the simple and > elegant O-O languages are easy to use right, but at the same time lack the > single biggest trump of O-O -- generics; while the languages that contain > generics are cumbersome and ugly. Go figure. i agree. o-o is so easy to do by hand in the few cases it really contributes to the design of software that it seems unimportant to have languages centered on it, yet polymorphism is a genuine boon but implementing it using o-o so difficult you get monstrosities like the STL or lose all compile-time type safety, as with all the casting through Object in Java. don't know much about the generics in the new Java but i've heard a lot of grumbling, so i don't hold out much hope. but here's the bad news: within this state of affairs, we see o-o being accepted as the foundation of good design and we educate our students in that point of view. o-o has its moments, but using it well is very difficult. i think the pattern book is the test that proves the rule; if that's the best you can say, your apprach is wrong. o-o is clumsy, a big hammer that is only occasionally the right tool. when all you have in your hand is the o-o hammer, everything is a thumb. how did we get here? i despair. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 01:50:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 01:50:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16075 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 01:50:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16071 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 01:50:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 01:50:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 673BA19AE3; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CCC919A2F; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F266B19A1D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice01.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B09C0199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8EGnP4f006731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8EGnIwl003435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F649C0E.6090405@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C66@black.aprote.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:18 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've always liked Modula-3. You do have to write code in a somewhat idiomatic fashion to get the full benefit of the OO capabilities, but overall it's quite a simple langueage (passes the "50-page rule.) And it has generics. Shame it never cuaght on. Martin Tiit Lankots wrote: >>>Looking back at your previous message, perhaps it is the >>>"scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance", in >>>which case are there any "Object Oriented" languages that you think >>>are OK? >> >>I'm not Charles, but I also answer. >> >>Have you seen Oberon-2? It is OO done well. >> >>Brantley Coile >> >> > > > Oberon-2 pushes complexity out of the language and into the libraries, not > unlike C. The part I miss most in it is some form of generics. Although I must > agree that its O-O is rather well-designed, indeed. > > There appears to be some nasty law of physics at work here: the simple and > elegant O-O languages are easy to use right, but at the same time lack the > single biggest trump of O-O -- generics; while the languages that contain > generics are cumbersome and ugly. Go figure. > > Tiit Lankots > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 02:03:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 02:03:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16366 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 02:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16362 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 02:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 02:03:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF2DB19AE9; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BB7119A6E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5FFB19AAC; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 73722199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19177 invoked by uid 991); 14 Sep 2003 17:02:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20030914170256.19176.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-reply-to: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> Comments: In-reply-to "rob pike, esq." message dated "Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:13:14 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:02:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | how did we get here? Smart guys at Bell Labs produced an efficient OO language, and spread it around widely, and no one else managed to produce an effective (comfortable, usable, efficient) alternative. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 02:14:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 02:14:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16531 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 02:14:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16527 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 02:14:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 02:14:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49D3319AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46DF919AE1; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E9C519AE1; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7030119A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19237 invoked by uid 991); 14 Sep 2003 17:13:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20030914171321.19236.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-reply-to: <3F649C0E.6090405@Princeton.EDU> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C66@black.aprote.com> <3F649C0E.6090405@Princeton.EDU> Comments: In-reply-to Martin Harriss message dated "Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:49:18 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:13:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | I've always liked Modula-3. You do have to write code in a somewhat | idiomatic fashion to get the full benefit of the OO capabilities, but | overall it's quite a simple langueage (passes the "50-page rule.) And | it has generics. | | Shame it never cuaght on. But completely understandable. The designers thought that sylistic compatability with Modula-2 was important, but in reality the many differences put off M2 users, while the Wirth style lack of ergonimics put off C users. Things like mandatory upper case keywords, and unnecessary semicolons just screamed "B&D language". Also, the quality of implementation wasn't that good. Simple programs created huge, slow executables. Why suffer when g++ does so much better? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 03:27:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 03:27:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18021 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 03:27:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18017 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 03:27:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 03:27:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1195319AF5; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AD6119AED; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:27:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 278D619AE8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A7E0719A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19419 invoked by uid 991); 14 Sep 2003 18:26:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20030914182625.19418.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] X11 vs 8.5 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 14 Sep 2003 14:26:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Found on the web: http://users.rcn.com/enf/lore/ Are you envious of Plan 9 users because their window system is named after a movie and yours isn't? Well, envy no more, because it turns out there's an X11 painting! That's niftier than a movie, right? (Marty Busse informs me that there are actually two X movies, though neither of them has 11 in its name: X, the Man with the X-Ray Eyes and X the Unknown.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 04:58:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 04:58:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19727 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 04:58:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19723 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 04:58:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 04:58:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4F3519AFA; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F47919AF7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C2E019AF8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu (goliat.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5414119AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id 903AA78D09; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:57:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A042BE5D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:57:07 +0200 (MEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> Message-ID: References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:57:06 +0200 (MEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: ... > implementing it using o-o so difficult you get monstrosities like the > STL or lose all compile-time type safety, as with all the casting > through Object in Java. don't know much about the generics in the new ... I suppose it wasn't rob but bwk, who wrote: "It is a testament to the fundamental soundness of the STL design that these changes required only substituting ...." tpop, p81 I've been always wondering who wrote this. gergo ps: tpop.awl.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 05:29:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 05:29:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20342 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 05:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20338 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 05:29:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 05:29:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B84F619B02; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27F2519A9C; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 963CB19AE8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C034619A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1249132-20001>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <00da01c37afe$980ee260$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:27:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i think the pattern book is the test that > proves the rule; if that's the best you can say, your apprach is > wrong. i don't understand these 'design pattern' zealots. i don't need a pattern -- i'll just code it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 05:32:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 05:32:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20446 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 05:32:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20442 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 05:32:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 05:32:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54C0219AFE; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEEC119A81; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3154119AF6; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F3C719A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <732252-25108>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:30:11 -0400 Message-ID: <00e501c37afe$dfd0f0c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C66@black.aprote.com> <3F649C0E.6090405@Princeton.EDU> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:29:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've always liked Modula-3. i'm not really sure that was the solution either. one of the nails in its coffin was that SRC voted for C++ with the help of some really fine taylor psychological manipulation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 05:32:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 05:32:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20453 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 05:32:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20449 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 05:32:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 05:32:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8654C19B0F; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B9F019AF9; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:32:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A01A619B01; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFD7519A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <727483-3320>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:31:17 -0400 Message-ID: <00ed01c37aff$074c5cc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> <20030914170256.19176.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:30:24 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > | how did we get here? > > Smart guys at Bell Labs produced an efficient OO language, and spread > it around widely, and no one else managed to produce an effective > (comfortable, usable, efficient) alternative. so why isn't plan 9 coded in C++? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 05:39:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 05:39:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20585 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 05:39:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20581 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 05:39:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 05:39:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6C2A19B18; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E533819B05; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:39:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7DB719B01; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E47319980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <815e6866d61e184c779dc973a14c1253@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <00ed01c37aff$074c5cc0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:38:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun Sep 14 16:32:39 EDT 2003, boyd@insultant.net wrote: > > | how did we get here? > > > > Smart guys at Bell Labs produced an efficient OO language, and spread > > it around widely, and no one else managed to produce an effective > > (comfortable, usable, efficient) alternative. > > so why isn't plan 9 coded in C++? > Because we weren't anywhere near smart enough to build a working kernel in C++. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 06:59:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 06:59:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21938 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 06:59:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21934 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 06:59:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 06:59:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8688719B1A; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C85A519B0D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03E8819B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6696D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19896 invoked by uid 991); 14 Sep 2003 21:58:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20030914215815.19895.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-reply-to: <00da01c37afe$980ee260$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> <00da01c37afe$980ee260$b9844051@insultant.net> Comments: In-reply-to "boyd, rounin" message dated "Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:27:17 +0200." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:58:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | i don't understand these 'design pattern' zealots. i don't need | a pattern -- i'll just code it. I didn't either, until I had to explain to some undergraduates how to write programs. Then suddenly you realize that there are ways and means that you learned by reading "software tools" and a pile of open source software and other stuff, but that these kids have never seen, and are not going to see between now and monday, if ever. So how do you communicate those ideas in digestible chunks? And after you've written something for the ninth or tenth time, don't you want to reuse it? The interesting critique I've heard about design patterns is that a higher level/more powerful programming langauge is a better use of effort. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 07:08:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 07:08:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22103 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 07:08:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22099 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 07:08:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:08:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A0A519B0D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ED2E19B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44DCC19B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mx2.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 954BB199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10910 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 22:07:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915095630.00a8a7c8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] g++ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:06:53 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > implementing it using o-o so difficult you get monstrosities like the > STL Stepanov has denied that the STL is object-oriented, and has very unkind things to say about OO in general: http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html Personally I've totally lost my grip on what "OO" is supposed to mean, except that it seems to be some kind of magic fairy dust which automatically results in good software, a bit like "structured" a few years back. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 07:09:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 07:09:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22111 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 07:09:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22107 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 07:09:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:09:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4A719B28; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 380BE19B1E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F128419B0D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB6A819B0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <731131-11606>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:07:19 -0400 Message-ID: <013401c37b0c$6de5b320$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2c45af7b985c5fcc1e3bcf51edbbd9e4@mightycheese.com> <00da01c37afe$980ee260$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030914215815.19895.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:06:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I didn't either, until I had to explain to some undergraduates how > to write programs. patterns is just a shake 'n bake approach. the only way to get good at it is to do it and have good teachers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 07:11:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 07:11:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22187 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 07:11:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22183 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 07:11:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:11:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD8CC19B2A; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC53719B10; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F30B19B1E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7231A19B0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 750055 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:24:59 -0500 Message-ID: <9bfed3d0d76e302f8a1259e74b3acd9e@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915095630.00a8a7c8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:09:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Stepanov has denied that the STL is object-oriented of course not. do people think it is? that's insane! -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 07:59:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 07:59:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22991 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 07:59:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22987 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 07:59:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:59:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 675BF19B10; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BCED19B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31CC219B10; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A33C19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id 7EA471881 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10986 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 22:13:15 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 22:13:15 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] g++ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:13:05 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Because we weren't anywhere near smart enough to build a working > kernel in C++. But surely, if you'd built a Use Case Driven Object Model of the kernel using UML, and used the Generic Iteration Workflow concept of the Rational Unified Process for the Implementation Phase, you would have had no trouble at all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 09:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 09:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24278 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 09:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24274 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 09:03:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 09:03:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D0FA19A19; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5AFB19AC1; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:03:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2CF119AE5; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (mx2.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 756F419AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12376 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2003 23:58:08 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 14 Sep 2003 23:58:08 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915114928.00af0a68@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] g++ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:58:00 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > of course not. do people think it is? that's insane! I think I detect the merest hint of sarcasm here, but seriously, what do you mean by "o-o"? I've seen people earnestly arguing about whether or not the STL is "really" object-oriented, and I don't really know what the term means any more. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 09:14:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 09:14:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24462 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 09:14:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24458 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 09:14:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 09:14:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4802919B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 136FF19AE0; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C61B19AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 969AA19AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 750124 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: <8306ea46f23b26cbe38e09021c0ee66e@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915114928.00af0a68@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:13:27 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i was not being sarcastic. polymorphism is the dual of o-o. o-o fixes the data and varies the functions (this->a(), this->b(), etc.); polymorphism fixes the functions and varies the data (sort(type1), sort(type2), etc.). the stl uses macros to pretend all is o-o while the data varies unpredictably in your hand. have a look at how to define a custom hash or allocator in STL. somehow o-o + macros = polymorphism. if you can see the logic in that, you're probably insane; hence my comment. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 09:57:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 09:57:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25341 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 09:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25337 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 09:57:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 09:57:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDA2619B0F; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67DCF19AE8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:57:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FB0619AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7F78019A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8851 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 00:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (81.196.245.146) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 00:53:39 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030915004901.GA1290@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:49:01 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The C compiler accepts '//..' C++ -like comments, but not in '#define' directives. ----------------------- #include #include // this one OK #ifndef FOO #define EXITS "wow!" // this won't work #endif // this one OK too void main() { exits(EXITS); } ----------------------- Is this deliberate behaviour ? (sorry if it's already fixed, my plan9 is a bit out of date). Thanks, Adi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 10:03:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 10:03:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25489 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 10:03:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25485 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 10:03:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 10:03:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCDFF19AF8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41DDA19AAC; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:03:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2233519AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80DF619A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:02:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It accepts it just fine. You're just defining a macro as "wow!" // this won't work and when it gets expanded in the exits you get void main() { exits("wow!" // this won't work); } which eats up the '); }' at the end of the function. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 10:19:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 10:19:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25638 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 10:19:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25634 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 10:19:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 10:19:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC6C119B0E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DAE019AAC; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:19:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CA6C19AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1C06F19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19655 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 01:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (81.196.245.97) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 01:15:23 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-ID: <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:16:58 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 a.d., David Presotto wrote: > It accepts it just fine. You're just defining a macro as > > "wow!" // this won't work > > and when it gets expanded in the exits you get > > void main() { exits("wow!" // this won't work); } > > which eats up the '); }' at the end of the function. Thanks for clarifying this. Notice however that this is different from other compilers/preprocessors. (FWIW, I prefer to stick to old '/* ... */' comments). Regards, Adi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 10:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 10:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25820 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 10:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25816 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 10:25:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 10:25:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9E4219B1D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C87C419AAC; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBA8C19AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F24019A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <736189-27591>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:24:08 -0400 Message-ID: <016f01c37b27$e920fca0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:23:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Notice however that this is different from other compilers/preprocessors. > (FWIW, I prefer to stick to old '/* ... */' comments). the problem didn't exist till C++ added // things were not helped by the complexity of the reiser cpp either. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 11:14:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 11:14:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26900 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26896 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E8C19B14; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51A7B19AF8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8340719AE9; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6428219AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19yiha-0001AU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:02:54 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Rifaat Saeed AL-Shehhi Message-ID: <0669117c.e2a426fb@ozavnol.ac.id> Organization: Copyright 2003 The Media Foundation. 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From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 11:24:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 11:24:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27178 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 11:24:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27174 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 11:24:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 11:24:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C55D19B1A; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D31B19AE7; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:24:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D85AC19AF8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 94840199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18995 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 02:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (81.196.247.25) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 02:20:35 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-ID: <20030915022121.GC1290@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:21:21 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 a.d., David Presotto wrote: > > It accepts it just fine. You're just defining a macro as > > > > "wow!" // this won't work > > > > and when it gets expanded in the exits you get > > > > void main() { exits("wow!" // this won't work); } Judging about what I understand of cmd/cc/macbody:237-260, ex. the /**/ comments are not passed through macros to be dealt with later, but discarded during the parsing of the '#define' directive. So the handling of '//' comments is just special in this case. Regards, Adi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 12:07:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 12:07:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27903 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 12:07:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27899 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 12:07:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 12:07:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C29819B2B; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EC8119B1D; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:07:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A40219B1A; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2165619B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: enache@rdslink.ro, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-agdthactmrkbuhgmmqvephaiuq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:06:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-agdthactmrkbuhgmmqvephaiuq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like just the opposite to me. /**/ comments are handled specially. The prepocessor doesn't know anything about // comments. If you want to change it, I wouldn't mind. I think nobody ever thought of or cared to do it before because we frown so much on programming with the preprocessor. The // at the end of your endif makes it through only because everything after the endif is ignored. --upas-agdthactmrkbuhgmmqvephaiuq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 14 22:24:18 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 14 22:24:16 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CE4419B1E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2046D199D5; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:24:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D85AC19AF8; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 94840199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18995 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 02:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (81.196.247.25) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 02:20:35 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-ID: <20030915022121.GC1290@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <1e56ac67c75ab0ab0d61e9569b44f97f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030915011658.GB1290@ratsnest.hole> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:21:21 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 a.d., David Presotto wrote: > > It accepts it just fine. You're just defining a macro as > > > > "wow!" // this won't work > > > > and when it gets expanded in the exits you get > > > > void main() { exits("wow!" // this won't work); } Judging about what I understand of cmd/cc/macbody:237-260, ex. the /**/ comments are not passed through macros to be dealt with later, but discarded during the parsing of the '#define' directive. So the handling of '//' comments is just special in this case. Regards, Adi --upas-agdthactmrkbuhgmmqvephaiuq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 12:15:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 12:15:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28127 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 12:15:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28123 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 12:15:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 12:15:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B89A919B2B; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78AAA19AFC; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24E1819B1E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 548D219AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1f19c193a87d1ceb768da05813099c79@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:14:48 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think nobody ever thought of or cared to > do it before because we frown so much on programming with the preprocessor. I admit as was truly disappointed when I didn't read "people who program using the preprocessor should be shot" in Boyd's post :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 12:20:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 12:20:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28215 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 12:20:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28211 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 12:20:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 12:20:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01CA319B36; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89EE219B21; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9D0F19B2B; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 220E119B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <091866070e78bbd2b2d1b8c920fadb9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments In-Reply-To: <1f19c193a87d1ceb768da05813099c79@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Of course, even our cpp gets it wrong... If you feel like fixing it, might as well go whole hog. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 12:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 12:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28242 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28238 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 12:21:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C018019B21; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E4319B2E; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80F3019B34; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7E54619B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29114 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 03:20:10 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 03:20:10 -0000 Message-ID: <00e801c37b38$809aa7b0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:21:42 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I did the special /**/ stuff because some crappy code depends on them being elided. I probably should have done // as well but decided not to for some reason lost in the past. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Presotto" To: ; <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments > Looks like just the opposite to me. /**/ comments are handled specially. > The prepocessor doesn't know anything about // comments. If you want to > change it, I wouldn't mind. I think nobody ever thought of or cared to > do it before because we frown so much on programming with the preprocessor. > > The // at the end of your endif makes it through only because everything after the > endif is ignored. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 13:20:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 13:20:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29621 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 13:20:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29617 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 13:20:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 13:20:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F11919B35; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0057B19B1A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7EE419B1D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7F819199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11595 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 04:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (10.100.0.23) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 04:16:01 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: enache@rdslink.ro Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-ID: <20030915040637.GA1376@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, enache@rdslink.ro References: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:06:37 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 a.d., David Presotto wrote: > Looks like just the opposite to me. /**/ comments are handled specially. > The prepocessor doesn't know anything about // comments. If you want to > change it, I wouldn't mind. I think nobody ever thought of or cared to > do it before because we frown so much on programming with the preprocessor. Never mind. I stumbled on this when trying to get stuff cut-n-pasted from external headers working. I actually fixed that issue with sed. This should be probably changed only if the compiler is ported outside plan9 (to make it work like MSVC or gcc, in order to avoid gratuitous incompatibilities -- but then the whole '#if A && defined(B)' madness should be probably put in too). Regards, Adi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 15:34:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 15:34:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32101 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 15:34:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32097 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 15:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 15:34:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C67819B3A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1233019B21; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:34:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2204519B28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E74C19AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h8F6Xjba002273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:33:45 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h8F6Xiq3015204; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:33:44 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h8F6XioN015202; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:33:44 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200309150633.h8F6XioN015202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@strakt.com Subject: [9fans] Design and Workmanship Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:33:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm going to use David Pye's defintion here from _The Nature and Aesthetic of Design_ and _The Nature and Art of Workmanship_. (These books are wonderful to read, byt the way. Pye is a now deceased professor of woodworking and architecture who also designed ships during ww2. So no computers, in them, but a good language to describe the whole creative process. Paperback, reasonably priced, and if your csc library has collected the works of Chris Alexander, you should try to get them to stock these as well. According to Pye, 'Design is what you can communicate using words and pictures'. 'Workmanship is that which you cannot'. This does not mean that you cannot talk _about_ workmanship. Talk about Workmanship is called 'technique'. 'The Practice of Programming' is all about technique. But when you draw or write something on paper, and hand it to somebody and say 'make this', you are handing him a design. The notion of 'and do the job well' is all about workmanship, and generally goes without saying. We are living in a time of mass production. Machines can stamp out identical copies of most of the things we live with in whatever quantity we desire. But a machine, by defintion, produces _highly regulated workmanship_. Somebody designs a machine (and then somebody has to make or assemble it with good workmanship, but that is forgotten) and then the result comes out. Thus a false relationship between 'good work' is a result of 'good design' is widely believed. Designers, in all trades, are most victim to this. They specify a job, and get good work, and soon come to expect that people will do the job well. Then comes the day when they use a firm which isn't up to the standard they require. All there is to do is to request that they do the job over. When the result comes back, still shoddy, the designer has nothing to do but throw up his hand in despair, and either hire a different firm, or specify something within the range of the ability of the people doing the work. Good Workmanship can overcome modest Design flaws. Poor Wookmanship defeats the best in design. So where does that leave us? But you don't get to be a good Workman by getting your heads filled up with theory. You get to be a good Workman by spending 18 hell filled weeks working for Henry Spencer, when you are 18, willing to do _anything_ to get a driver into the utzoo kernel. Getting up at 4 am to read the v7 kernel _one more time_. And writing code, writing code, writing code, and having Henry Spencer and Geoff Collyer say 'that's bad' about it a lot. (Thanks Geoff). Hanging out with people who already know what good Workmanship is, failing to produce it, again, and again, and again, until you finally do something worthwhile. This is the experience csc majors, most of them, come to university hoping to get. Something that will make them good programmers. Unfortunately, they like everybody else, think that they need to become good designers. I don't know how to train good design into you. I can teach you to recognise bad workmanship, which generally comes with bad Design, and a certain amount of bad Design. But good Design? It may be a matter of 'either you've got it or you don't'. Unfortunately, I cannot treat you the way Henry Spencer treated me. This will just make you change your major, which I would love, but will get me in trouble with the university. I don't know if it is true that high school guidance teachers have all conspired to take all the smart, lazy, and completely unimaginative people that come to their offices wondering what to do in their lives, and tell them -- 'Computer Science, that's for you!' but it sure feels that way sometimes. But 'Design Patterns' is misnamed. It would be better named as 'Workmanship Patterns'. They are tools. They are things for regulating your work. They are like jigs, and vises, and the other things you use to make sure that you don't spoil the job as you work 'freely'. (Free workmanship == make a mistake and the job is ruined. Its opposite Completely Regulated Workmanship == push a button, get it done. Again, from David Pye). Boyd doesn't need them, because Boyd already works to an extremely high standard of workmanship, awesomely high, all the time. Boyd is also a fine designer. But he couldn't teach us that, much, either. He knows how to do it, not how to teach it, curse it all. But Design Patterns -- and read the Smalltalk one, not the C++ one, where half the book is not about the Patterns, but more fruitfully titled 'my struggles trying to do polymorphism with the C++ type system' (and there are better ways to do that than in the book) -- is a box of techniques of good Workmanship. We give them to the students who summer here. And one of the most wonderful moments of my life was when I showed this book to a new student, and said, the bookstore hasn't delivered yours yet but they've arrived ... when he looked at it he said 'I can get to the bookstore in 15minutes, and they shut in 30. Let me get it.' I said 'no'. He was totally excited. he had to get this book and show it to a friend. It had the solution to what was wrong with the engineering undergraduate students website and lab registration problem.... (I let him know that he could borrow my book until the delivery happened.) He and his friend hacked all weekend, and on Monday it was clear that they had hardly slept. But the site was better. They were going to refactor it _again_ next weekend, though ....) That's what its for. If you don't need that, then you won't understand, why its so important. But the world is full of people who desparately want to improve their workmanship, and _don't even know that that is what they are wanting_. More algorithm classes won't help them with this, nor will most of the things we teach at university. Most progamming problems can be served with very modest designs. 'Good rough work' is all you need when you want to take a list of your friends, and the pictures of your grandchildren from your digtal camera, and mail the second to the first without spending all day pasting in your Windows Gui. (I just taught a 70 year old woman enough Python to do that). If you need more regulated work, then DP is a tremendous help. And if you're an Artist, and want to do perfectly free work, and don't screw it up, you will probably get something better than if you just use good workmanship to properly assemble known components. Might be harder to maintain, though. Sorry for those of you I bored with my ramblings... Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:00:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:00:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32758 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:00:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32754 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:00:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:00:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 216E719B3F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E25BB19B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:00:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0584F19B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA54419AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8F6xnU0030132 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:59:50 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Design and Workmanship X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C67@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Design and Workmanship Thread-Index: AcN7U4SAJM9LZT0lSku82pfNVNrOngAAOhOQ From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:59:37 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) applause, no, standing ovations Hardly possible to express it more clearly. Almost any sane adult can be = taught good workmanship by trial and error; whereas good design indeed seems to be something, = mm, 'ethereal', that some have and some don't. Unfortunately the classic universitas-style CS = education (at least here in Estonia) tries to mold everybody into an designer slash scientist. = This per se isn't that bad, but in the process workmanship gets lost because nobody ever gets their = hands dirty. The net result is that alot of horrible code floats around, designed by people who = don't have it, programmed=20 by people who don't have it.=20 Tiit Lankots From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:03:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:03:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 347 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 343 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:03:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 130EC19B40; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 795D219B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:03:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0F8919B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E944619AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h8F72kba002936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:02:46 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h8F72kq3015329; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:02:46 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h8F72eNd015327; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:02:40 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200309150702.h8F72eNd015327@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, henry@spsystems.net, ian@darwinsys.com Cc: lac@strakt.com Subject: [9fans] somebody wants a well-researched essay on the history of the internet Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:02:40 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) he wants to assign as reading for some senior high school students. Suggestions? I already know about http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:14:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:14:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 549 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 545 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:14:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:14:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6033D19B42; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3334119B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18A7319B35; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00A7F19AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <448d9263fc982cedc0a1b6d3bfa10102@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030915040637.GA1376@ratsnest.hole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:03:06 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>incompatibilities -- but then the whole '#if A && defined(B)' madness >>should be probably put in too). no, there's already a useful, separate cpp, from a venerable source, that isolates all that complexity. use -p with ?c to get it when you need it. use -+ as well if you need // comments. (with it, cpp handles the #define ... // case being discussed.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:22:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:22:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 762 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:22:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 758 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:22:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:22:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13D5719B42; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B648919B2E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70F9F19B35; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 82C0F19AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:21:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3F657661.1090902@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bcopy in APE Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:20:49 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Finishing out my network stack redesign in netbsd, I glanced at the source of the bcopy function. The BSD implementation, found at /sys/lib/libsa/bcopy.c, increments while copying octets if arg1 is greater than arg2. However, the plan9 APE implementation of bcopy (found at /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/gen/memmove.c) decrements. My question is, why does the function need to increment or decrement at all? And if there is a specific reason, why does plan9's implementation do it opposite of the netbsd? I really have no idea why the if(x < y) clause is needed. Comments? Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Yes, soon. Just email me if you need something off the site. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:22:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:22:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 769 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:22:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 765 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:22:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:22:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98D9419B48; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41F4A19B40; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:22:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02B0A19B35; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7D8519AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <973cfda7f3eca67fb079e934aae1b0e3@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <091866070e78bbd2b2d1b8c920fadb9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-osgamqrearvrunzbdotedvytre" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:11:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-osgamqrearvrunzbdotedvytre Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try adding -+ to allow C++ comments. worked for me. --upas-osgamqrearvrunzbdotedvytre Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19yjug-0000AN-6v; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:20:30 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19yjug-0000AN-6v for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:20:30 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01CA319B36; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89EE219B21; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:20:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9D0F19B2B; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 220E119B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <091866070e78bbd2b2d1b8c920fadb9d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments In-Reply-To: <1f19c193a87d1ceb768da05813099c79@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Of course, even our cpp gets it wrong... If you feel like fixing it, might as well go whole hog. --upas-osgamqrearvrunzbdotedvytre-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:33:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:33:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 952 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:33:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 948 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:33:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:33:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB15E19B46; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF1A319B40; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9EBC19B35; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCABC19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46a49abf9f3cb8bedf2a83b89dff8fcc@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <016f01c37b27$e920fca0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:21:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>things were not helped by the complexity of the reiser cpp either. the remarkable thing is that later work on C ADDED to the preprocessor, and even more later! ``when you're in a hole ...'' fortunately, it must be said that even in some of the worst code i've seen the authors kept to the simpler constructions. the main problems in practice tend to be the use of it at all (eg, Linux enumerating arbitrarily many platforms in a single file controlled by #ifdef!), and overly complex #if expressions (which, not being checked much can easily go wrong). a little gem recently was ``#if ndef ...''. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:37:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:37:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1017 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1013 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:37:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:37:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 556D319AF6; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 652B519B3E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:37:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B98419B40; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 17C3A19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:36:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3F657A14.1090709@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bcopy in APE References: <3F657661.1090902@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:36 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > My question is, why does the function need to increment or > decrement at all? Oh, I get it. Because we're preserving the source vector as best we can. I was just overthinking. Anyone care to confirm or elaborate? > And if there is a specific reason, why does > plan9's implementation do it opposite of the netbsd? Aha! I just realized that the destination argument in the plan9 memmove is the source argument in the BSD bcopy. And, the memmove call in bcopy (/sys/src/ape/lib/bsd/bcopy.c) flips the arguments appropriately. Hah, okay. Duh. Obviously, I need sleep. G'night. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Yes, soon. Just email me if you need something off the site. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:39:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:39:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1037 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:39:20 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1033 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:39:20 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:39:20 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D7B819B4E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DD46199D8; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5782819B43; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B95C19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ynwN-0002Vd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:38:31 +0200 Received: from [219.65.141.107] (helo=nivas) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19ynwJ-0003yq-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:38:29 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Message-Id: <20030915130330.53d99a2b.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20030914144757.30e9b14c.martin@parvat.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:03:30 +0530 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:53:26 -0400 Brantley Coile wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:47:57 +0530, Martin C.Atkins wrote: > > > Looking back at your previous message, perhaps it is the > > "scope rules and silent actions associated with inheritance", in > > which case are there any "Object Oriented" languages that you think > > are OK? > > I'm not Charles, but I also answer. Sorry, I really meant: Hi Charles, Everyone, > > Have you seen Oberon-2? It is OO done well. I know of it. I suppose the thread that I was trying to pursue was that Charles' message implied that the problems he had with C++ are fundamental to the object-oriented approach (i.e. inheritance). What does Oberon-2 do that mitigates the complications of "silent actions associated with inheritance", for example? On this question - Charles, would the modification of the 'self' reference (so that it did not allow calls to overriding methods) address your problems? I've seen plenty of discussion (hype) over the last 20 years about the advantages of the object-oriented approach, but precious little analysis or discussion of the problems associated with it! In this light, much of the following thread has been interesting, especially the comments about generics, and polymorphism, but threads such as Rob's comment: > i agree. o-o is so easy to do by hand in the few cases it really > contributes to the design of software that it seems unimportant to > have languages centered on it, yet polymorphism is a genuine boon but >... really begin to address the question of whether object-oriented (whatever it means - that's another problem, but for now, maybe I mean specifically the inheritance aspects) might be a step too far for the understandable, maintainable construction of programs, and what might be the alternatives. As I touched on in my first message. I believe that better type-compatibility rules in conventional languages (based on interfaces, rather than construction) would be a step forward in promoting the "o-o is so easy to do by hand in the few cases..." part of Rob's message. The Plan9 compiler's 'anonymous substructures' extension was an interesting experiment in this direction. But what about making pointers to struct { int a; int b} and struct { int a; int b; int c} type compatible in the correct circumstances? This would provide support for much of the power of o-o, but would it also open the door to the abuses/difficulties? This discussion also reminds me of Sussman and Abelson's approach that the language should allow programming in the style appropriate to the problem, whether that style be o-o, logic, functional, etc. The problem in using different languages for each of these styles is that intercalling becomes difficult. The problem with using the same language is that no current (strongly-typed) language seems capable of (conveniently) supporting the whole range of styles. I want a compile-time strongly typed language for other, orthogonal but important, reasons. > > Brantley Coile > Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com{/,/martin} From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:52:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:52:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1432 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:52:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1428 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:52:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:52:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 278B119B4D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A0D519B49; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:52:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D950A19AF6; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FDD8199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <732621-8391>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:51:16 -0400 Message-ID: <01a201c37b5d$f612ad60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:49:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think nobody ever thought of or cared to do it before because > we frown so much on programming with the preprocessor. is it the plan 9 C compiler paper that states that use of the preprocessor has been cut down to the core and its overuse is discouraged and, in fact, unnecessary? iirc i have awk regression tests to run, which are running quite nicely against /bin/awk which should allow me to incorporate some of bwk's fixes and then i'll run 'em on my native 'port'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 16:53:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 16:53:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1441 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 16:53:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1437 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 16:53:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 16:53:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84AAC19B51; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4899019ABA; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:53:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF6BB19ABA; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BDFD199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <730307-16089>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:52:46 -0400 Message-ID: <01aa01c37b5e$2ad8cf20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1f19c193a87d1ceb768da05813099c79@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:51:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I admit as was truly disappointed when I didn't read "people who > program using the preprocessor should be shot" in Boyd's post :) i was too busy with awk and thought that anyone using // comments AND the preprocessor was a fool. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:02:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:02:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1557 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:02:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1553 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:02:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:02:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 963E919B53; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13B2619AC1; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4ECB819AC1; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4975C199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <01a201c37b5d$f612ad60$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 01:01:26 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cpp gets abused, but we need it (or m4 or something of the sort), if only for #include, so it's not completely unnecessary. The bad old days, when we walked 5 miles uphill to and from school, were not pretty: when cpp was an optional compiler pass and /usr/include didn't exist yet, only the kernel bothered to #include headers, and the number of bugs in V6 Unix programs because somebody had copied a struct declaration out of a manual page and then the real struct changed (or they had copied it incorrectly in the first place) was considerable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:03:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:03:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1580 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:03:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1576 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:03:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:03:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2AB019B52; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A33019B4D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:03:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F297719B4D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18B4819AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <733868-8393>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: <01b401c37b5f$7e91cda0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4474ff21207aa9cf44a6e3f715f6b492@plan9.bell-labs.com> <00e801c37b38$809aa7b0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:00:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I did the special /**/ stuff because some crappy code depends on > them being elided. I probably should have done // as well but > decided not to for some reason lost in the past. i wrote a cpp once, when i really wasn't up to the job. the problem is: do you remove the comment from the macro text or just leave it in? in the case of /* ... */ it doesn't make a lotta difference 'cos during the expansion they could dissappear. if the case of // they had better be removed from the macro text 'cos when the expansion comes along you are in a 'world of pain'. reiser's cpp was blinding fast, and almost unreadable so you had your work cut out to work out the semantics of the damn thing. he had worked out this insight that you were just writing a _slightly_ smarter version of cat; it didn't tokenise much and used one i/o buffer to do all the dirty work. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:26:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:26:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1890 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:26:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1886 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:26:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:26:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 302C419B49; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F40BE19AC1; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:26:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A069619B36; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D04C5199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <464723-8401>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <01c801c37b62$a975ffc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1f19c193a87d1ceb768da05813099c79@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:23:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I admit as was truly disappointed when I didn't read "people who > program using the preprocessor should be shot" in Boyd's post :) or as grampaw pettibone woulda said: Land a goshen, only a dadburned idiot would fly into the break at five hundred knots. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:44:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:44:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2154 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2150 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:44:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B17F19AF6; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 020BE19AE0; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF77B19B43; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16C5C19AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <725665-1104>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01f301c37b65$23b23220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309150633.h8F6XioN015202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:41:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd doesn't need them, because Boyd already works to an extremely > high standard of workmanship, awesomely high, all the time. Boyd is > also a fine designer. But he couldn't teach us that, much, either. > He knows how to do it, not how to teach it, curse it all. i know how to teach it. it's just: are you gonna listen? And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps! -- Gunnery Sergeant Hartman From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:44:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:44:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2169 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2165 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:44:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D85019B62; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07C0C19B52; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C1E219B43; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4909119AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19yoiR-0003Hl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:28:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <005101c37914$38fda680$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] ... in the Kingdom of Sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:27:36 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Bruce Ellis wrote: > at their best ANSI-C wide chars were a half-baked idea. at the worst > they were damaging to programming. Runes are neither. Well reasoned. Runes rule, dude! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:44:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:44:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2176 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2172 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:44:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:44:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 979CF19B65; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C41A19AE0; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 039FF19B49; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34BFA19AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19yoiR-0003Hr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:28:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <1e24.3f6347f8.d270@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <01cb01c37988$5fed3480$b9844051@insultant.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:27:48 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Sam, > > so, should i just fix it with rm? or should i countinue to bitch? > > or both? > > Oh, please continue to bitch. That's why I read 9fans. I read it for the joy of hearing, just one more time, how Boyd wrote an ftpfs as an NFS server. Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:45:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:45:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2189 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:45:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2185 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:45:07 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:45:07 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCDE619B61; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD36B19B5E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:44:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E21A019B4A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F2D819AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19yoiR-0003Hx-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:28:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: James Message-ID: Organization: Kraftwerk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [9fans] ftpfs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:27:58 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi, just got plan9 installed and i can't figure out how to get the namespace mounted on /n/ftp from the process/window that started it in acme into another window so i can use the mouse to traverse the file structures. also, i can start the ftpd by aux/listen tcp but how do i start just the ftp service? aux/listen tcp21 doesn't do it. thanks, James From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 17:49:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 17:49:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2238 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 17:49:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2234 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 17:49:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 17:49:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 76DE419B62; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F0AA19AE0; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1067919B43; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 365AF199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <222437-1108>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:48:04 -0400 Message-ID: <020701c37b65$e22206e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F657661.1090902@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] bcopy in APE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:46:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Finishing out my network stack redesign in netbsd, I glanced > at the source of the bcopy function. The BSD implementation, > found at /sys/lib/libsa/bcopy.c, increments while copying > octets if arg1 is greater than arg2. is this not the overlapping memory bcopy problem? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:01:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:01:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2467 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2463 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:01:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:01:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17DB819B63; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD8FD19AE0; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92CE519B4A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C098119AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <732264-16095>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:00:02 -0400 Message-ID: <024601c37b67$8dc2aee0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8306ea46f23b26cbe38e09021c0ee66e@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:58:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > polymorphism is the dual of o-o. i think it means o-oh, 'holy shit, man, this is one unstable sumbitch. we had better watch our fucking step'. -- john keene From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:18:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:18:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3013 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:18:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3009 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:18:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:18:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 585A919B68; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A851719B48; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4629219B48; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6673199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <150737122ff47880b1029e391e01d18e@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bcopy in APE From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3F657A14.1090709@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bmwlsnxtcexiaquuasehpmxnwd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:20:29 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bmwlsnxtcexiaquuasehpmxnwd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit memmove(s+1, s, 8); it's usually desirable that after the copy s[2] gets what s[1] had in it, not s[0] (and so on). just checking the initial pointers is fractionally cheaper than the full check for overlap, but is enough to guarantee safety. i did find that on 386 it was better to do the full check because the forward copy was much faster, and the cheap check, though safe, meant that arbitrarily many copies ended up taking the reverse-copy path, just because of malloc outcomes (say). overlapped copy was used on some architectures to set whole buffers to a value having set the first byte, but it's otherwise not usually what's desired. --upas-bmwlsnxtcexiaquuasehpmxnwd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 19ynvH-0005RI-Ck; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:37:24 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19ynvH-0005RI-Ck; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:37:24 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6919419B4B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51EF719AF6; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B98419B40; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 17C3A19B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 07:36:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3F657A14.1090709@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bcopy in APE References: <3F657661.1090902@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:36:36 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > My question is, why does the function need to increment or > decrement at all? Oh, I get it. Because we're preserving the source vector as best we can. I was just overthinking. Anyone care to confirm or elaborate? > And if there is a specific reason, why does > plan9's implementation do it opposite of the netbsd? Aha! I just realized that the destination argument in the plan9 memmove is the source argument in the BSD bcopy. And, the memmove call in bcopy (/sys/src/ape/lib/bsd/bcopy.c) flips the arguments appropriately. Hah, okay. Duh. Obviously, I need sleep. G'night. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Yes, soon. Just email me if you need something off the site. --upas-bmwlsnxtcexiaquuasehpmxnwd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:28:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:28:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3197 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:28:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3193 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:28:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:28:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2E5819B6A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30D9019B5A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:28:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEF4319B63; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE8B119B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ypaA-0004Q2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:23:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86oexmv29j.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Standalone Fileserver with IDE disk? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:23:40 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, after setup a cpu/auth server under VMware I want to build a fileserver on a old pc. The wiki says, that I can use IDE drives but in /sys/src/fs/pc there is no driver for a IDE drive. Is it possible to use IDE disk? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:38:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:38:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3326 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:38:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3322 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:38:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:38:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB5E819B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ABAF19B6A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8C9E19B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB17E19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Standalone Fileserver with IDE disk? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <86oexmv29j.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:37:21 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) See /sys/src/fs/pc/devata.c; IDE == ATA == PATA. It works; I have 4 IDE disks on my file server. You need to declare the controllers as apparently not described in plan9.ini(8) (to my surprise): ata0=type=ata irq=14 ata1=type=ata irq=15 The bad news is, as jmk noted, that the driver uses programmed I/O, not DMA, so use of the IDE disks chews up the file server's CPU. I haven't had time to fix it and just making the cache disk into a SCSI disk would largely solve the problem; doing the same for `other' would almost entirely solve it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:51:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:51:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3519 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3515 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:51:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05D6C19B68; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4AF319B6F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9587319B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0148A19B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id E7DA8187C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h8F9m8ba005887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:48:28 +0200 Received: from strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h8F9lgq3015867; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:47:42 +0200 Message-Id: <200309150947.h8F9lgq3015867@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: martin@mca-ltd.com Cc: lac@strakt.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Laura Creighton Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:47:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >From: Martin C.Atkins >To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ >Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited >Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >This discussion also reminds me of Sussman and Abelson's approach >that the language should allow programming in the style appropriate >to the problem, whether that style be o-o, logic, functional, etc. >The problem in using different languages for each of these styles is >that intercalling becomes difficult. The problem with using the same >language is that no current (strongly-typed) language seems capable >of (conveniently) supporting the whole range of styles. I want a >compile-time strongly typed language for other, orthogonal but >important, reasons. > > >Martin >-- >Martin C. Atkins martin@mca-ltd.com >Mission Critical Applications Ltd, U.K. http://www.mca-ltd.com{ >/,/martin} > We're working on writing a JIT specialised compiler for Python. http://www.codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home One of the people on the project is Armin Rigo, author of Psyco. http://psyco.sourceforge.net/introduction.html If we are as successful as we intend to be, will that take care of your reasons? Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 18:54:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 18:54:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3537 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 18:54:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3533 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 18:54:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:54:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91F8819B72; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE07E19B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:54:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE70019B68; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3570119AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] awk bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:53:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% echo a b c | awk 'BEGIN { f[0] = 2 } { print $f[0] } ' awk: syntax error at line 2 context is { print >>> $f[ <<< awk: illegal statement at line 2 brahma% echo a b c | awk '{ print $2 }' b From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 19:05:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 19:05:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3923 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 19:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3897 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 19:05:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 19:05:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4165319B77; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8DE719B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F1AD19B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EE7A19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] awk bug In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 03:04:35 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm not sure if `$f[0]' should work as you intend (maybe `($f)[0]' is the right parse), but parentheses can fix things to work as you intend: ; echo a b c | awk 'BEGIN { f[0] = 2 } { print $(f[0]) }' b From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 19:16:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 19:16:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4032 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 19:16:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4028 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 19:16:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 19:16:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94A3019B5A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE9C319B5A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9FC319B61; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1777819AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <732638-5428>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:15:40 -0400 Message-ID: <028f01c37b72$1c6d01e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] awk bug MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:14:11 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > (maybe `($f)[0]' is the right parse), ... roger that. fixed the test and the plan 9 awk passes it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 20:03:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 20:03:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4651 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 20:03:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4647 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 20:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 20:03:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F22A19B7D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D798219B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3A8619B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D115199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments In-Reply-To: <1630899296@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:01:58 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, ape/cpp also attempts to do single quote (') matching inside C++ style comments. Thus int fred = 0; // fred's number causes cpp to spew. Its on my list of things to track down but not at the top... -Steve --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:19:35 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-Id: <1630899296@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <1630899296-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of course, even our cpp gets it wrong... If you feel like fixing it, might as well go whole hog. --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 20:21:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 20:21:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4904 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4900 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16D7519B7A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45DD319B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11D1619B74; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EE6419B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0df32db811157d246b82ea43f64ee63d@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:23:03 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it was quicker to add the few lines of code to fix it rather than discuss it further: so i did. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 20:24:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 20:24:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4930 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 20:24:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4926 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 20:24:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 20:24:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5B5119B82; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B3C619B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:24:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C08A819B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 632F419B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dastokaeuggyqzuvykvkvplegl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:26:40 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dastokaeuggyqzuvykvkvplegl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i can only get that effect when i do NOT include the -+ option, but in that case it's not supposed to do C++ comments so the effect is correct. --upas-dastokaeuggyqzuvykvkvplegl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 19yr8f-00007c-3H; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:03:25 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19yr8f-00007c-3H; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:03:25 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 804B619B7A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E141199D5; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3A8619B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D115199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments In-Reply-To: <1630899296@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:01:58 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, ape/cpp also attempts to do single quote (') matching inside C++ style comments. Thus int fred = 0; // fred's number causes cpp to spew. Its on my list of things to track down but not at the top... -Steve --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:19:35 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu bcc: "Steve Simon" From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sender: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Importance: normal Priority: normal Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9's C compiler and // comments Message-Id: <1630899296@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <1630899296-1@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of course, even our cpp gets it wrong... If you feel like fixing it, might as well go whole hog. --upas-ngugqqtspbvmqwiiytlfvuxkdf-- --upas-dastokaeuggyqzuvykvkvplegl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 20:42:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 20:42:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5227 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 20:42:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5223 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 20:42:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 20:42:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0EC919B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2E8A19B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA76019B6C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.113.222.forward.012.net.il [80.179.113.222]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07FBF19B5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (skeeve [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h8FBiGFW032198; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:44:16 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h8FBiFuc032196; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:44:15 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309151144.h8FBiFuc032196@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] awk bug X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:44:15 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article you write: >brahma% echo a b c | awk 'BEGIN { f[0] = 2 } > { print $f[0] } > ' >awk: syntax error at line 2 > context is > { print >>> $f[ <<< >awk: illegal statement at line 2 >brahma% echo a b c | awk '{ print $2 }' >b This is a bug that was introduced when BWK switched from the lex scanner to a hand-written one. (Guess who told him about it? :-) It's fixed in the current version: $ echo a b c | nawk 'BEGIN { f[0] = 2} > { print $f[0] }' b $ nawk -V awk version 20030731 Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 23:37:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 23:37:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8138 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 23:37:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8134 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 23:37:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 23:37:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D46419B81; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5959319B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:37:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 329BE19B28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9947619B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8FETx630648 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:29:59 -0400 Message-ID: <0b7701c37b97$a0ef95c0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309150633.h8F6XioN015202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:42:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Laura, I found your message quite interesting, so I went to see where you teach and ended up at Strakt, which I also found interesting. I'm working on a comprehensive new approach to secure collaborative spaces, starting with a book that describes the approach. Would you be interested in reviewing it? Thanks, Wes Kussmaul www.village.com www.pkipress.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Creighton" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:33 AM Subject: [9fans] Design and Workmanship > > I'm going to use David Pye's defintion here from _The Nature and > Aesthetic of Design_ and _The Nature and Art of Workmanship_. (These > books are wonderful to read, byt the way. Pye is a now deceased > professor of woodworking and architecture who also designed ships > during ww2. So no computers, in them, but a good language to describe > the whole creative process. Paperback, reasonably priced, and if > your csc library has collected the works of Chris Alexander, you > should try to get them to stock these as well. > > According to Pye, 'Design is what you can communicate using words and > pictures'. 'Workmanship is that which you cannot'. This does not > mean that you cannot talk _about_ workmanship. Talk about Workmanship > is called 'technique'. 'The Practice of Programming' is all about > technique. > > But when you draw or write something on paper, and hand it to somebody > and say 'make this', you are handing him a design. The notion of > 'and do the job well' is all about workmanship, and generally goes > without saying. > > We are living in a time of mass production. Machines can stamp out > identical copies of most of the things we live with in whatever > quantity we desire. But a machine, by defintion, produces _highly > regulated workmanship_. Somebody designs a machine (and then > somebody has to make or assemble it with good workmanship, but > that is forgotten) and then the result comes out. Thus a false > relationship between 'good work' is a result of 'good design' is > widely believed. Designers, in all trades, are most victim to this. > > They specify a job, and get good work, and soon come to expect that > people will do the job well. Then comes the day when they use a > firm which isn't up to the standard they require. All there is to > do is to request that they do the job over. When the result comes > back, still shoddy, the designer has nothing to do but throw up his > hand in despair, and either hire a different firm, or specify something > within the range of the ability of the people doing the work. > > Good Workmanship can overcome modest Design flaws. Poor Wookmanship > defeats the best in design. > > So where does that leave us? > > But you don't get to be a good Workman by getting your heads filled > up with theory. You get to be a good Workman by spending 18 hell > filled weeks working for Henry Spencer, when you are 18, willing > to do _anything_ to get a driver into the utzoo kernel. Getting > up at 4 am to read the v7 kernel _one more time_. And writing > code, writing code, writing code, and having Henry Spencer and > Geoff Collyer say 'that's bad' about it a lot. (Thanks Geoff). > Hanging out with people who already know what good Workmanship > is, failing to produce it, again, and again, and again, until > you finally do something worthwhile. > > This is the experience csc majors, most of them, come to university > hoping to get. Something that will make them good programmers. > Unfortunately, they like everybody else, think that they need to > become good designers. I don't know how to train good design into > you. I can teach you to recognise bad workmanship, which generally > comes with bad Design, and a certain amount of bad Design. But > good Design? It may be a matter of 'either you've got it or > you don't'. > > Unfortunately, I cannot treat you the way Henry Spencer treated me. > This will just make you change your major, which I would love, but > will get me in trouble with the university. I don't know if it > is true that high school guidance teachers have all conspired to > take all the smart, lazy, and completely unimaginative people that > come to their offices wondering what to do in their lives, and > tell them -- 'Computer Science, that's for you!' but it sure feels > that way sometimes. > > But 'Design Patterns' is misnamed. It would be better named as > 'Workmanship Patterns'. They are tools. They are things for > regulating your work. They are like jigs, and vises, and the other > things you use to make sure that you don't spoil the job as you > work 'freely'. (Free workmanship == make a mistake and the job is > ruined. Its opposite Completely Regulated Workmanship == push > a button, get it done. Again, from David Pye). > > Boyd doesn't need them, because Boyd already works to an extremely > high standard of workmanship, awesomely high, all the time. Boyd is > also a fine designer. But he couldn't teach us that, much, either. > He knows how to do it, not how to teach it, curse it all. > > But Design Patterns -- and read the Smalltalk one, not the C++ one, > where half the book is not about the Patterns, but more fruitfully > titled 'my struggles trying to do polymorphism with the C++ type > system' (and there are better ways to do that than in the book) -- > is a box of techniques of good Workmanship. > > We give them to the students who summer here. And one of the most > wonderful moments of my life was when I showed this book to a new > student, and said, the bookstore hasn't delivered yours yet but > they've arrived ... when he looked at it he said 'I can get to the > bookstore in 15minutes, and they shut in 30. Let me get it.' I said > 'no'. He was totally excited. he had to get this book and show it > to a friend. It had the solution to what was wrong with the engineering > undergraduate students website and lab registration problem.... > > (I let him know that he could borrow my book until the delivery happened.) > He and his friend hacked all weekend, and on Monday it was clear that > they had hardly slept. But the site was better. They were going to > refactor it _again_ next weekend, though ....) > > That's what its for. If you don't need that, then you won't > understand, why its so important. But the world is full of people who > desparately want to improve their workmanship, and _don't even know > that that is what they are wanting_. More algorithm classes won't > help them with this, nor will most of the things we teach at > university. Most progamming problems can be served with very modest > designs. 'Good rough work' is all you need when you want to take a > list of your friends, and the pictures of your grandchildren from your > digtal camera, and mail the second to the first without spending all > day pasting in your Windows Gui. (I just taught a 70 year old woman > enough Python to do that). > > If you need more regulated work, then DP is a tremendous help. > > And if you're an Artist, and want to do perfectly free work, and don't > screw it up, you will probably get something better than if you just > use good workmanship to properly assemble known components. Might > be harder to maintain, though. > > Sorry for those of you I bored with my ramblings... > > Laura > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 15 23:55:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 15 23:55:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8443 invoked by uid 1020); 15 Sep 2003 23:55:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8439 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 23:55:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 23:55:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8337E19B87; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB45D19B74; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5386219B7A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B12FE19B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 3CD16CD6E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:54:43 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Message-ID: <20030915145443.GA8164@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:54:43 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 10:13:05AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > > Because we weren't anywhere near smart enough to build a working > > kernel in C++. > > But surely, if you'd built a Use Case Driven Object Model of the kernel > using UML, and used the Generic Iteration Workflow concept of the Rational > Unified Process for the Implementation Phase, you would have had no trouble > at all. You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from the protected memory archive. Duh. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:01:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:01:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8609 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:01:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8605 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:01:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:01:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C56D919B88; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29FBA19B79; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60F5019B81; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B415B19B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pd6mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd6mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.216]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HL900G2QGCOWD@l-daemon> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml2so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml2so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.146]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HL9006D5GCPR0@l-daemon> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zk6veaghhlt7u5 (h24-78-141-79.ss.shawcable.net [24.78.141.79]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HL90013UGCOCB@l-daemon> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:00:24 -0600 (MDT) From: James To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-id: <001801c37b93$676dbd80$0100a8c0@zk6veaghhlt7u5> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [9fans] ftpfs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:12:32 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi, just got plan9 installed and i can't figure out how to get the namespace mounted on /n/ftp from the process/window that started it in acme into another window so i can use the mouse to traverse the file structures. also, i can start the ftpd by aux/listen tcp but how do i start just the ftp service? aux/listen tcp21 doesn't do it. ip/ftpd says it needs a network address but it seems proper protocol that aux/listen is used from the man pages thanks, James From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:04:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:04:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8649 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:04:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8643 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:04:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:04:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63F2C19B8B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E879D19B79; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 190F319B7F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3AB419B74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8FF49Xs002243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:04:09 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C6A@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] g++ Thread-Index: AcN7mXPeYGkWjHbBR4mfxnYc4ChgRAAAKBjg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:03:56 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would >depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace >field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from >the protected memory archive. Duh. > That's nonsense. If you depolarize the resonance frequency generators = you get a tachyon resonance cascade that will phase all positronic = equipment. Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:21:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:21:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9022 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:21:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9018 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:21:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:21:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84ADE19B87; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0519C19B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 996F619B86; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FF6A19B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30d67801812489a7cdc7e0ad045ff5ad@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ftpfs From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <001801c37b93$676dbd80$0100a8c0@zk6veaghhlt7u5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:20:26 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > hi, > > just got plan9 installed and i can't figure out how to get the namespace > mounted on /n/ftp from the process/window that started it in acme into > another window so i can use the mouse to traverse the file structures. you can't jump across namespaces easily in Plan 9. if you think of them as hierarchical structures much like directory trees then it'd be obvious that in order to have the same mount/bind show up in two different rio windows they have to be descendants of the same namespace where the bind happened. for example, at the end of lib/profile's execution there's a uniform namespace in which rio starts. therefore every new rio window you open will be a descendant of this namespace (that's why you can import another machines' /net on top of your /net, open another window and see no effects of it whatsoever). so, to start a new window in rio sharing the same namespace with a previous one, you'll need to run 'window -m' in the second to create the first. then running acme /n/ftp will show the right thing, instead of an empty directory. this is exemplified in the following example, creating two different windows, one acting as the input for an irc client, the otheracting as a display (so the text i type doesn't mangle the text i receive from the server): % bind '#|' /tmp # this pipe connects the two windows % window -m # create the new window, sharing the same namespace % irc < /tmp/data # start the display, taking input from one end of the pipe now in the other window: % cat > /tmp/data1 # start the input ..... > > also, i can start the ftpd by aux/listen tcp but how do i start just the ftp > service? aux/listen tcp21 doesn't do it. ip/ftpd says it needs a network > address but it seems proper protocol that aux/listen is used from the man > pages > copy the tcp21 file in a new directory, say $home/ftp and run "aux/listen -d $home/ftp". better yet, check the listen1(8) man page, which will open just one port executing just one command. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:30:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:30:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9158 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:30:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9154 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:30:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:30:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4DA019B91; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CFBE19B86; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:30:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C23A19B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21D4919B86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FFTFqw028828 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:15 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FFTE9R005089 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:15 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FFTERt019341 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:14 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C6A@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Tiit Lankots wrote: > > >You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would > >depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace > >field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from > >the protected memory archive. Duh. > > > > That's nonsense. If you depolarize the resonance frequency generators you > get a tachyon resonance cascade that will phase all positronic equipment. yikes, even Star Trek script writers use Plan 9 now. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:33:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:33:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9300 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:33:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9296 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:33:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:33:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC01219B95; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11A3519B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4FC919B8A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23CCC19B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13972 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8FFWVj27370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309151532.h8FFWVj27370@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:33:43 EDT." <20030913053343.GA15895@mero.morphisms.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) William Josephson writes: > The thing with the CD is that you can only use it under > Windoze (and maybe MacOS?). I'm happy to pay for a copy, > but I want to be able to -use- it once I have. Hmm; are we talking about the same CD? I was under the impression that they one they use at the labs (under Plan 9) is the same as the one you can buy from Oxford. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:33:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:33:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9307 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:33:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9303 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:33:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:33:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E13B19B9B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F89D19B94; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:33:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 132AB19B86; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 426C119B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id LAA27713 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:48 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309151532.LAA27713@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ftpfs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:32:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > just got plan9 installed and i can't figure out how to get the namespace > mounted on /n/ftp from the process/window that started it in acme into > another window so i can use the mouse to traverse the file structures. Andrey is correct, but if you want to change the namespace for an already-running instance of acme you can use the "Local" builtin -- i.e., type "Local some_namespace_changing_command" in a tag and sweep it with B2. Doing this won't affect instances of "win" that you're already running, but it will affect new ones that you start. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:42:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:42:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9455 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9451 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:42:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:42:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7E6519B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 289AD19B49; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B522819B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13E6019B8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15720 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8FFfKj27475 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309151541.h8FFfKj27475@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:06:19 +0200." <013401c37b0c$6de5b320$b9844051@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:41:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "boyd, rounin" writes: > patterns is just a shake 'n bake approach. the only way to get > good at it is to do it and have good teachers. I like that: patterns is a shake 'n bake approach. The only advance that the ``patterns'' community made was inventing a common nomenclature. That's it. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:44:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:44:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9475 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:44:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9471 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:44:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:44:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F306519B81; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74D7819B57; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:44:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 27C8219B8A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A56519B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847C524FE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 814E944; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:43:35 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict Message-ID: <20030915154335.GA30699@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030913053343.GA15895@mero.morphisms.net> <200309151532.h8FFWVj27370@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309151532.h8FFWVj27370@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 11:32:31AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > William Josephson writes: > > The thing with the CD is that you can only use it under > > Windoze (and maybe MacOS?). I'm happy to pay for a copy, > > but I want to be able to -use- it once I have. > > Hmm; are we talking about the same CD? I was under the impression that > they one they use at the labs (under Plan 9) is the same as the one you > can buy from Oxford. The data is the same (or nearly so) as the old version of the CD. There is a newer one with some updates and possibly corrections. However both versions of the CD are, to the best of my knowledge, encrypted (and use some lame copy protection scheme, too). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 00:53:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 00:53:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9656 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 00:53:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9652 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 00:53:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 00:53:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6562C19B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 347F419B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:53:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6796F19B57; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E59019B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 750603 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:07:03 -0500 Message-ID: <68441caaf2cd49d4b09e2a114e75e910@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ftpfs From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <200309151532.LAA27713@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:51:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> just got plan9 installed and i can't figure out how to get the namespace >> mounted on /n/ftp from the process/window that started it in acme into >> another window so i can use the mouse to traverse the file structures. > > Andrey is correct, but if you want to change the namespace for an > already-running instance of acme you can use the "Local" builtin -- > i.e., type "Local some_namespace_changing_command" in a tag and sweep > it with B2. Doing this won't affect instances of "win" that you're > already running, but it will affect new ones that you start. right. and clever uses of srvfs (see exportfs(4)) allow a name space created in one window visible in another. in your case, if the ftp is already going, you could run srvfs ftp /n/ftp in that window, then run mount /srv/ftp /n/ftp in another window or Local mount /srv/ftp /n/ftp in acme. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 01:03:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 01:03:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9827 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 01:03:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9823 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 01:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 01:03:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AFA319B97; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7601419AE9; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:03:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84CB319B57; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4AF319992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8FG2nj27665 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309151602.h8FG2nj27665@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:41:19 +0200." <01f301c37b65$23b23220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:02:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack > the gear to serve in my beloved Corps! Oo rah! s/f, - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 01:21:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 01:21:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10099 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 01:21:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10095 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 01:21:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 01:21:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0492619B9E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB48B19B8F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:21:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBA4719B83; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E839919AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Sep 2003 18:19:38 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8FGKnhK014498 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:20:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id RAA21758 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:20:48 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Positrons (was Re: [9fans] g++) Message-ID: <20030915172048.C25502@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030915145443.GA8164@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20030915145443.GA8164@sigint.cs.purdue.edu>; from splite@purdue.edu on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:54:43AM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:20:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:54:43AM -0500, splite@purdue.edu wrote: > You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would > depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace > field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from > the protected memory archive. Duh. One thing I always found amusing about the use of 'positronics' vs electronics in SF was what heppens if the back up battery is turned off? *poof* Daneel's head vanished in a flash of blinding light and gamma rays. DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 01:59:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 01:59:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10801 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 01:59:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10797 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 01:59:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 01:59:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C565F19B9A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63C2219B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 452C019B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 681CA19B8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ywX7-0006FB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] /dist is empty Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:48:13 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I have setup a standalone fileserver. All looks god and I can mount the fileserver to the cpu/auth server to install plan9.9gz. But my /dist on the cpu/auth server is empty except "replica". Is it possible, to build a plan9.9gz from the installation CD, transfer it to the cpu/auth server and then install it on the fileserver? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 03:06:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 03:06:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11790 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 03:06:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11786 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 03:06:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 03:06:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E10B319B73; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C66519A8E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:06:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC04119A94; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magnum.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E2BE0199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from robin.cooper.edu by magnum.cooper.edu with SMTP id AA00532 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>); Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:11:14 -0400 Received: from localhost by robin.cooper.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01336; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:05:15 -0400 From: Joel Salomon To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Positrons (was Re: [9fans] g++) In-Reply-To: <6A0A0B7110C3894CB8D5CF8FA591C09A01F0424D@nycoms01.hq.bn-corp.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 09:54:43AM -0500, splite@purdue.edu wrote: > You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would > depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace > field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from > the protected memory archive. Duh. A phased verteron pulse! Of course, I should have tried it. I tried the exact same procedure but I used a verteron stream! I now realize that althought the verteron stream is defined by a function that is everywhere discontinuous (so it should just have been very fast pulse) I errred on that one.. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 03:12:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 03:12:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11887 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 03:12:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11883 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 03:12:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 03:12:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0762C19A94; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 301FD199D4; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2604D19B67; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBA0219A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8FIBMSF003435 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:11:22 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE056152@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] g++ Thread-Index: AcN7nmNDbh+oCDZ3R+if2SzDzfiWgQAFdBG2 From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:11:08 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BASE64_ENC_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Pnlpa2VzLCBldmVuIFN0YXIgVHJlayBzY3JpcHQgd3JpdGVycyB1c2UgUGxhbiA5IG5vdy4gDQog DQpzaG91bGQgaSBmZWVsIGVsZXZhdGVkIG9yIGRlcHJlc3NlZCBub3cgOykNCiANClRpaXQNCiAN ClBTIGlmIHRoZXkgd2VyZSwgd2Ugd291bGQgaGF2ZSBzZWVuIGFjbWUgb24gc2NyZWVucyBpbiBF bnRlcnByaXNlLiBQbGFuIDkgaGFzIGEgdGVuZGVuY3kgdG8gc3RpY2suDQpQcm9iYWJseSBqdXN0 IGJlY2F1c2UgaXQncyBkbyBkYW1uIGJlYXV0aWZ1bC4NCg== From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:11:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:11:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13069 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:11:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13065 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:11:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:11:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D430419B3D; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83FCE19AF7; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5A5E19B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B97D819A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8FJACH06161; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dfmfkjiqfojvrkpiugnglilerf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dfmfkjiqfojvrkpiugnglilerf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit plan9.9gz? that's the old 3e format. the new format is just a cd. you want to mount the cd and then replica/pull -v script where script is an edited copy of /dist/replica/cd. --upas-dfmfkjiqfojvrkpiugnglilerf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Sep 15 12:59:36 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Sep 15 12:59:33 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 920F219BA1; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB71D19B99; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:59:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 452C019B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 681CA19B8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19ywX7-0006FB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] /dist is empty Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:48:13 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Moin, I have setup a standalone fileserver. All looks god and I can mount the fileserver to the cpu/auth server to install plan9.9gz. But my /dist on the cpu/auth server is empty except "replica". Is it possible, to build a plan9.9gz from the installation CD, transfer it to the cpu/auth server and then install it on the fileserver? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-dfmfkjiqfojvrkpiugnglilerf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:32:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:32:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13790 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13786 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1131F19B8C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2DC719AA8; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:32:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92AD719B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9277519A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FJVcqw009125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:38 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FJVcKk019194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:38 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8FJVcRt030011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:38 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE056152@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Tiit Lankots wrote: > Probably just because it's do damn beautiful. This is an interesting point. Plan 9 esthetics are really nice. colors, fonts, and so on just "look good". Who did all that? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:41:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:41:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14110 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14106 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AA7319B49; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC5F19AF7; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B69419B38; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E70C19AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Sep 2003 12:40:42 -0700 Received: from edi-view2.cisco.com (edi-view2.cisco.com [144.254.112.71]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8FJeZXq015743 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (dfawcus@localhost) by edi-view2.cisco.com (8.11.2/CISCO.WS.1.2) id h8FJeZG23341 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:40:35 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Subject: [9fans] OED Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:40:35 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) So does anyone know if the dict code can cope with the OED 2ed v3 CD (i.e. whay's currently being sold)? I'm just wondering 'cause despite the comment about simplistic encryption, (which I've now deleted so can't recall who wrote it), I can't see anything that looks like decryption code in oed.c (p9 3rd dist) and the info available from the oed website suggests it is encrypted (somehow). If dict can cope, then I may well buy a copy. DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:44:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:44:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14173 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:44:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14169 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:44:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:44:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4733719BA1; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCCF219B28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B45FE19B38; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F182519AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8FJhKH08655; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:43:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <0f178123b1c5bc07e506baec4e56a10b@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OED From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:43:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > So does anyone know if the dict code can cope with the OED 2ed v3 CD > (i.e. whay's currently being sold)? i'm certain it cannot. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14205 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:46:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:46:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:46:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAEBC19B28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE05119AF7; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30D7119B38; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40EA219AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 750853 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: <76e793970632356f612216865bdb5456@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OED From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:43:17 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i may be wrong, but i believe the code in dict was used to process an unencrypted, pre-production edition of the electronic OED that some of the folks at bell labs had access to. i don't think the CD was the origin of the data. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:47:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:47:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14213 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:47:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14209 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:47:17 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:47:17 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D4DF19B9E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8201119B9F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9DA919B9E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4A1119BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA0724FF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D90EB46; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:27 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OED Message-ID: <20030915194627.GC31436@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:40:35PM +0100, Derek Fawcus wrote: > So does anyone know if the dict code can cope with the OED 2ed v3 CD > (i.e. whay's currently being sold)? > I'm just wondering 'cause despite the comment about simplistic encryption, > (which I've now deleted so can't recall who wrote it), I can't see anything > that looks like decryption code in oed.c (p9 3rd dist) and the info > available from the oed website suggests it is encrypted (somehow). > That's because there isn't any -- the CD is encrypted but dict assumes it is not. You'll have to crack it... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 04:54:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 04:54:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14381 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14377 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 04:54:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8878419BAD; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C354919B5C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 700CC19B5C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40B18199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <616864-24353>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:53:54 -0400 Message-ID: <034901c37bc2$d6ef8880$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309151602.h8FG2nj27665@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:52:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Oo rah! s/f, who-ah!! (sp?) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 05:07:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 05:07:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14683 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 05:07:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14679 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 05:07:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 05:07:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA3C119BAA; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0010A19B5C; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:07:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C71C419B66; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FE53199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <341665-5927>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:05:13 -0400 Message-ID: <038601c37bc4$6a7eb0c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309151144.h8FBiFuc032196@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] awk bug MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:03:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > This is a bug that was introduced when BWK switched from the lex scanner > to a hand-written one. (Guess who told him about it? :-) It's fixed in > the current version: i understand that. i'd prefer to mangle the test scripts than to hack awk. my reasoning being is that the side effects of hacking the test script are minimal, but hacking awk is fraught with peril (i knew that before i bio-fied it). the rand() based tests are pretty much useless. the problem is to make the right choice :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 06:12:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 06:12:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16257 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 06:12:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16253 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 06:12:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 06:12:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9754619B38; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F2AA19B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:12:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA67719B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D29E19A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56239f4134943732876b3ad1bb2f0790@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] g++ From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:10:56 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I believe Rob is the Plan 9 æsthete. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 06:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 06:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16452 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 06:25:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16448 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 06:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 06:25:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6189019B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1588419B09; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D878319B19; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7576F19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23299 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 21:18:01 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 21:18:01 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030916090722.00a98c58@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: [9fans] g++ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:17:52 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_ORBS,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The only advance that the ``patterns'' community made was inventing a common nomenclature. That, and inventing the "Singleton" design pattern, for use on those occasions when someone's holding a gun to your head trying to force you to create an unnecessary second instance of a class. I invented the "Doppelganger" and "Trifecta" patterns, for when you need exactly two or three instances of a class, but they've never caught on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 06:27:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 06:27:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16479 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 06:27:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16475 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 06:27:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 06:27:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED78019B96; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6354919B19; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69E6019B19; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EC3919AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] dict In-Reply-To: <200309151532.h8FFWVj27370@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:26:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Tying things back to the original message in this thread, I've merged Caerwyn Jones's pgw changes into the distribution dict and put the result on sources. If you update you'll get the new dict, and a /lib/dict/README.pgw that says: To get the Project Gutenberg dictionary use 9fs sources cp /n/sources/extra/pgw.tar.bz2 /tmp cd /lib/dict bunzip2 < /tmp/pgw.tar.bz2 | tar x Dict now uses the first dictionary on the system as the default, so even though oed is listed first, if all you have is the pgw that's what it will use. I like this one: dict computer Thanks, Caerwyn. This is great. It's really nice to be able to use adict on my local machine. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 07:42:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 07:42:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18222 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 07:42:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18218 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 07:42:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 07:42:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E54F619A28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D37019A94; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2623619ABA; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0CD519A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OED From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <76e793970632356f612216865bdb5456@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ssziqozsyqhyxtitqbwebsmhgj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:29:17 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ssziqozsyqhyxtitqbwebsmhgj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i asked about it some time during the 1990s and discovered that the data was taken from an unencrypted reel of magnetic tape. i've got the email somewhere but it won't help if you've only got the CD. --upas-ssziqozsyqhyxtitqbwebsmhgj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19yzIm-0002WF-8c; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:46:24 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19yzIm-0002WF-8c for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:46:24 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAEBC19B28; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE05119AF7; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30D7119B38; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40EA219AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.239.45.4] (HELO glenda.corp.google.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 750853 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: <76e793970632356f612216865bdb5456@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] OED From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20030915204035.B27509@edi-view2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:43:17 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i may be wrong, but i believe the code in dict was used to process an unencrypted, pre-production edition of the electronic OED that some of the folks at bell labs had access to. i don't think the CD was the origin of the data. -rob --upas-ssziqozsyqhyxtitqbwebsmhgj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 07:46:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 07:46:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18294 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 07:46:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18290 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 07:46:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 07:46:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29B3D19B57; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF8CF19AB8; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 267E819B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80BF019A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c224497bf50efa48d06a0a304fc5918@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030915145443.GA8164@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jtznbkcyfhgnnmyzpyzhcfviap" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:33:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jtznbkcyfhgnnmyzpyzhcfviap Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i believe it is much quicker and indeed far more effective to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. --upas-jtznbkcyfhgnnmyzpyzhcfviap Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19yulI-0003wc-4j; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:55:33 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19yulI-0003wc-4j for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:55:32 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8337E19B87; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB45D19B74; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5386219B7A; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B12FE19B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 3CD16CD6E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:54:43 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Message-ID: <20030915145443.GA8164@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030915100743.00a98ff0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:54:43 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 10:13:05AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > > Because we weren't anywhere near smart enough to build a working > > kernel in C++. > > But surely, if you'd built a Use Case Driven Object Model of the kernel > using UML, and used the Generic Iteration Workflow concept of the Rational > Unified Process for the Implementation Phase, you would have had no trouble > at all. You'd still need to slap it with a phased verteron pulse, which would depolarize the resonance frequency generators and generate a subspace field implosion, inducing a reload of the positronic subprocessors from the protected memory archive. Duh. --upas-jtznbkcyfhgnnmyzpyzhcfviap-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 08:18:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 08:18:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18792 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 08:18:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18788 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 08:18:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 08:18:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 649B119B2B; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7286719A8E; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA01719A94; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6EBE199E0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <733149-16094>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: <03f901c37bdf$2a3d74e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6c224497bf50efa48d06a0a304fc5918@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:14:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i believe it is much quicker and indeed far more effective > to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. i think the the 9x19mm, 124 grain, FMJ round [about 30] from an MP5-A5 would be a lot simpler; deadly accurate, highly reliable and not much recoil [roller locked, closed bolt]. might make a bit of noise but you could get the MP5SD version which has a silencer: http://www.hkpro.com/video/MP5SD.mov From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 10:21:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 10:21:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23512 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 10:19:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23432 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 10:17:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 10:17:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E793F19A6F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B9119AE9; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 404D419AFB; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8867E19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18f00dec7b37fe3bd36c86f66d82f0a6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf Content-Disposition: inline --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from nj9620exch001p.wins.lucent.com ([135.222.4.21]) by plan9; Mon Sep 15 20:36:43 EDT 2003 Received: by nj9620exch001p.mh.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Trickey, Howard W (Howard)" To: "Presotto, David Leo (Dave)" Subject: RE: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:36:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Yes, I did dict. The source of the data was unencrypted data from someone, now at AT*&T, whose name escapes me at the moment. - Howard -----Original Message----- From: David Presotto [mailto:presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:56 PM To: howard@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Didn't you do dict? What was the source of the oed data? --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 12:07:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 12:07:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29616 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 12:07:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29612 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 12:07:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 12:07:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1092619B15; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0EE519AFB; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:07:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBDD419AE9; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 923F319A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <500490e850e39f6bcca34fe83e4d221f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:07:14 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > man segment Thanks Geoff and David. I've been in a small holidays, and had time to work with hpijs for three days. Tough I had to watch TV of Hansin Tigers baseball games everyday. ☺ Anyway, shared memory is proved not to be neccessary in the present case if I neglect the compatibility of older versions of hpijs. Then, I decided to neglect it. I'll use your teaching in some another chance, thank you very much. By the way, I have now compiled hpijs using Plan 9 g++. Yes, it worked very fine with some small band-aids. I needed hpijs driver, because I got purchased all-in-one type inkjet printer (HP psc2110, connected to usb port by Sape), and want to make it work on my home Plan 9 system. Russ, have you revised the ghostscript to newest version? kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 13:24:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 13:24:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 992 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 13:24:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 988 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 13:24:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 13:24:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4110F19B09; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7938E19A8B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D71C19AAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 791B919A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21ff68b72cbb488c658c940b3300b958@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory In-Reply-To: <500490e850e39f6bcca34fe83e4d221f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:23:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Russ, have you revised the ghostscript to newest version? no. i did update our internal copy to gs 8.00, but that seemed to break more than it fixed. they just released 8.11, "the first stable release since 8.00", whatever that means. all i know is that i can't view the intel architecture manuals using 8.00. they're all shifted half a page up off the screen. i have not been impressed since peter deutsch handed over the reins. there used to be a mailing list for people interested in announcements about new releases. we'd get a mail a month saying "this just came out and fixes such-and-such." there's no equivalent now, so i never know when something is worth trying or not, and i haven't been very aggressive in watching for new releases. the instructions for pulling in new source are in /sys/src/cmd/gs/mkfile. mk try-8.11 should do most of the work. you may need to tweak it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 14:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 14:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4851 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 14:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4847 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 14:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 14:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3348819B16; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07BF919AAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9600119AAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mightycheese.com (mail.mightycheese.com [209.61.186.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCAF719A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [67.122.68.143] (HELO mightycheese.com) by mail.mightycheese.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 751299 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:56:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6F2B7C62-E808-11D7-B45E-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:41:35 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAD_CREDIT,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS, USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > This is an interesting point. Plan 9 esthetics are really nice. colors, > fonts, and so on just "look good". Who did all that? > glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about it. i can take no credit for the fonts except for having the good luck to know chuck bigelow and kris holmes well enough to ask them to do a deal with bell labs and let us use their fonts. the postscript fonts used in the manual, which are related to the screen fonts (primarily those used in acme), were the first font designed specifically for unicode. i also rather like the screen fonts, which were also maybe the first. the clean appearance of the screen comes mostly from laziness, but the color scheme is (obviously) deliberate. the intent was to build on an observation by edward tufte that the human system likes nature and nature is full of pale colors, so something you're going to look at all day might best serve if it were also in relaxing shades. renee french helped me with the specifics of the color scheme (she's a professional illustrator and my color vision is suspect), once i'd figured out how i wanted it to look. there are still some features of the color system that i put in that i think no one has ever noticed. that's a good thing, in my opinion; the colors should fade away, if you'll pardon the expression. having used other systems with different approaches to color screens, most especially windows XP (extra pukey), i think tufte was right. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 15:42:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 15:42:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7783 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 15:42:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7779 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 15:42:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 15:42:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FA7F19B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 536C819ACB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D6A1C19AE9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E94819AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e6b95a9c7615719b09ecff68cb85fed@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <6F2B7C62-E808-11D7-B45E-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:16:49 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > having used other systems with different approaches to color screens, > most especially windows XP (extra pukey), i think tufte was right. I really love the color scheme of acme, too. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 16:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 16:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11571 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 16:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11567 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 16:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 16:51:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0267719AB6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B521219A8E; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A249F19AB6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D7A419A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6856de85f92f04da380ed2982ce23c03@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <18f00dec7b37fe3bd36c86f66d82f0a6@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-adcxjhgoguypkxykjfvzsezuvm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:38:23 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-adcxjhgoguypkxykjfvzsezuvm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i found the email message i mentioned, from 1994, and the relevant bit said The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Ed., that goes with Plan 9 "dict" came from a tape that Bell Labs acquired for linguistic research, so we cannot redistribute it. The Bell Labs researcher who obtained it says: .... followed by a brief description of how the material was obtained from OUP but the process did not seem to be easy to repeat. there was a contact email address but if i did follow it up at the time--i cannot remember--i am certain it did not get me the data. --upas-adcxjhgoguypkxykjfvzsezuvm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19z4TH-0002kD-A0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:17:35 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19z4TH-0002kD-A0 for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:17:35 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E793F19A6F; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B9119AE9; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 404D419AFB; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8867E19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18f00dec7b37fe3bd36c86f66d82f0a6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf Content-Disposition: inline --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from nj9620exch001p.wins.lucent.com ([135.222.4.21]) by plan9; Mon Sep 15 20:36:43 EDT 2003 Received: by nj9620exch001p.mh.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Trickey, Howard W (Howard)" To: "Presotto, David Leo (Dave)" Subject: RE: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:36:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Yes, I did dict. The source of the data was unencrypted data from someone, now at AT*&T, whose name escapes me at the moment. - Howard -----Original Message----- From: David Presotto [mailto:presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:56 PM To: howard@plan9.bell-labs.com Subject: Didn't you do dict? What was the source of the oed data? --upas-yizpgvcegvnqdisnpklvlrtitf-- --upas-adcxjhgoguypkxykjfvzsezuvm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 17:44:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 17:44:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13909 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 17:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13905 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 17:44:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 17:44:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EECF719B11; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AB7419AB0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:44:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 390CC19AB0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5840819AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zBHd-00049y-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86fzixyy92.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:55 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes: > to mount the cd and then replica/pull -v script > where script is an edited copy of > /dist/replica/cd. I solved my CD problem, transfer the plan9.iso to the cpu/auth server and mount it via "mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /usr/bootes/plan9.iso". After that I read man 1 replica and the "cd" script but I didnt get it. I mount the fileserver via "9fs batida" to /n/batida and change the "cd" script on the cpu/auth server like that: s=/n/dist/dist/replica serverroot=/n/dist serverlog=/dist/replica/plan9.log serverproto=$s/plan9.proto fn servermount { status='' } fn serverupdate { status='' } fn clientmount { status='' } c=/dist/replica clientroot=/n/batida clientproto=$c/plan9.proto clientdb=$c/client/plan9.db clientexclude=(dist/replica/client) clientlog=$c/client/plan9.log applyopt=(-u -T$c/client/plan9.time) replica/pull -v script runs without error (after touching /dist/replica/plan9.log) but there are no files transfered to the fileserver. What do I missing? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 17:44:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 17:44:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13936 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 17:44:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13932 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 17:44:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 17:44:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0782219B57; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3615919B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:44:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2586119ACB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B85419AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zBHd-00049s-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86pti1z2e4.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:45 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes: > plan9.9gz? that's the old 3e format. > the new format is just a cd. you want Ok, is because the documentation in the wiki. I'll change this. > to mount the cd and then replica/pull -v script > where script is an edited copy of > /dist/replica/cd. I have a problem whith the CD. My cpu/auth server run under vmware and vmware try to boot from the CDROM every time. To work around I make a copy of the Plan9 CD with "mkisofs -o mp9.iso /cdrom" (under BSD) which is not bootable. This cd image I can mount but I'm not sure, if this is a exact copy of the Plan9 CD. What is the best way to create a non bootable Plan9 CD? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 17:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 17:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14534 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 17:54:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14530 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 17:54:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 17:54:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7C8619B57; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1EBD19B57; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83CB519ACB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98D6619ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <610157-23614>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:52:57 -0400 Message-ID: <04bd01c37c2f$8b03e020$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6F2B7C62-E808-11D7-B45E-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:50:11 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about > it. i never liked the colours, but the don't worry me now and are infinitely better than that child's playground known as XP. OTOH i retract what i said about being able to 'pull on the side of a transparent object' being a bad idea. in retrospect, i always wanted to resize labs' window systems' windows without having to resort to 'Resize'. i just wanted to change its size, not reposition it too. i have had to unlearn a lot of bad lunix habits i have picked up. i always liked the fonts and the simplicity over the X11: -*-fuck-*-this-*-will-*-never-*-work-*- (ahem) 'design'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 18:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 18:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16387 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 18:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16383 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 18:51:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 18:51:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6F3E19B71; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6D3319B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9FD819B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF6319A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:52:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You may have noticed that Verisign has decided to return 69.94.110.11 as the IP for any .com or .net DNS lookup that would otherwise have returned "host not found" How to people feel about ndb coding round this ? matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 18:56:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 18:56:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16543 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 18:56:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16539 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 18:56:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 18:56:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DED6E19B4F; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AC0B19B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02F8E19B57; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA5C419B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <842372fd9f5543a768c65ba3da54c70d@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] shared memory From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <500490e850e39f6bcca34fe83e4d221f@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:30:56 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Russ, have you revised the ghostscript to newest version? Hmm, fntem.ps... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 19:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 19:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17421 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 19:25:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17416 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 19:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 19:25:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F1D419B92; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E48AB19AD4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:25:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B4EA19B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8399819A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1245885-23482>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:23:53 -0400 Message-ID: <051001c37c3c$380d8d00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:16:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You may have noticed that Verisign has decided ... Verisad (sic) are just a disaster. i have always tried avoiding them (as much as possible) and doing things myself (if possible). they have a tiresome habit of breaking stuff. i saw some other DNS weirdness as of yesterday. it may not be DNS related (i have side info), but it is very strange. iirc they are a root CA -- what a foul quasi-monopoly. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 19:38:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 19:38:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17767 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 19:38:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17763 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 19:38:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 19:38:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1F9B19B97; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28BAC19A72; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F166919B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A508419A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8GAbbef010207 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:37:38 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8GAbY30010206 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:37:34 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick Message-ID: <20030916123731.D9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from matt@proweb.co.uk on Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 06:52:20AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:37:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 06:52:20AM -0400, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > You may have noticed that Verisign has decided to return 69.94.110.11 as the IP for any .com or .net DNS lookup that would otherwise have returned "host not found" > > How to people feel about ndb coding round this ? > You mean, removing their root server from the root cache and declaring the cache static, as it has certainly become? If the other root servers are not as stupid, we may be able to defeat their grand plans. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 20:08:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 20:08:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18565 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 20:08:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18561 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 20:08:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 20:08:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAC8719B80; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9999819B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:08:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6157919B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A77F19AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8GB7Wef010252 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:07:34 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8GB7Ui5010251 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:07:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick Message-ID: <20030916130725.E9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030916123731.D9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030916123731.D9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za>; from Lucio De Re on Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 12:37:32PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:07:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 12:37:32PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > You mean, removing their root server from the root cache and declaring > the cache static, as it has certainly become? > Oops, no, we need to ignore their .COM and .NET nameservers, hoping that their madness hasn't infected anyone else. Where's Randy Bush when it's time to wield a large baseball bat? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 20:29:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 20:29:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18983 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 20:29:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18979 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 20:29:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 20:29:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CF0B19B9F; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 730ED19A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:29:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A803419AA0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web40405.mail.yahoo.com (web40405.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AA4AF19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030916112821.99028.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [218.39.19.168] by web40405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:28:21 PDT From: hooh pxw To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:28:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Let me introduce fasm to you. The flat assembler is a fast and efficient *self-assembling* 80x86 assembler for DOS, Windows and Linux and Menuetos. It supports all 8086-80486/Pentium instructions with MMX, SSE, SSE2 and 3DNow! extensions, can produce output in binary, MZ, PE or COFF format. Has the advanced but easy to use macroinstruction support and does multiple quick passes to optimize the code for size. It is self-compilable and the full source code is included. http://flatassembler.net/ http://menuetos.org So is there possibility flatassembler on Plan 9? -- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 20:41:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 20:41:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19209 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19205 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 20:41:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F3FE19BAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA59319A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 085F219AD4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0D4A19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <282f44088209648de9f41b949ff0e73f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030916112821.99028.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jbxppjdajefltaaocyyfixlxbl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:28:12 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jbxppjdajefltaaocyyfixlxbl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not counting /sys/src/9/pc/*.root.s, the assembly code in the system including libraries is perhaps 1500 to 2000 lines (mostly little hand-optimised functions in the libraries, and chunks of code for the machine-level support for bootstrap and kernel). so that seems a waste of time to change. a real-mode assembler would indeed be easier than the #defines for the few dozen lines of code that needs them but otherwise, not. and if, as i understand it, the assembler is itself written in assembler, that seems rather unattractive here. just my own feelings about it. --upas-jbxppjdajefltaaocyyfixlxbl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19zE1h-0007iE-6G; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:30:23 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19zE1h-0007iE-6G for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:29:46 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CF0B19B9F; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 730ED19A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:29:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A803419AA0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web40405.mail.yahoo.com (web40405.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AA4AF19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030916112821.99028.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [218.39.19.168] by web40405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:28:21 PDT From: hooh pxw To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:28:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Let me introduce fasm to you. The flat assembler is a fast and efficient *self-assembling* 80x86 assembler for DOS, Windows and Linux and Menuetos. It supports all 8086-80486/Pentium instructions with MMX, SSE, SSE2 and 3DNow! extensions, can produce output in binary, MZ, PE or COFF format. Has the advanced but easy to use macroinstruction support and does multiple quick passes to optimize the code for size. It is self-compilable and the full source code is included. http://flatassembler.net/ http://menuetos.org So is there possibility flatassembler on Plan 9? -- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --upas-jbxppjdajefltaaocyyfixlxbl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 20:48:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 20:48:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19362 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 20:48:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19358 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 20:48:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 20:48:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80C2F19B23; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CCE519A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:48:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7308C19B23; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 536E719A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8GBlrRx011533 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:47:53 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C6B@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? Thread-Index: AcN8R4wFURHpFHx0S86lwOPPXIaMCAAAHFxA From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:47:38 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > [snip] >just my own feelings about it. couldn't agree more. Plan 9 is almost assembler-free, and let's keep it = that way. Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 20:57:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 20:57:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19537 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 20:57:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19533 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 20:57:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 20:57:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B664019BAA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8843419A7D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:57:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36BFA19A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04920199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8GBv2aI011634 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:57:02 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C6C@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? Thread-Index: AcN8R4wFURHpFHx0S86lwOPPXIaMCAAAesjA From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:56:47 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) $ find sys -name '*.s' -exec wc -l \{\} \; |awk 'BEGIN {sum=3D0} > {print $0; sum +=3D $1} > END {print sum}' 423 sys/src/9/alphapc/l.s 197 sys/src/9/alphapc/memmove.s 61 sys/src/9/alphapc/memset.s 103 sys/src/9/bitsy/bitsyreset.s 12 sys/src/9/bitsy/init9.s 856 sys/src/9/bitsy/l.s 119 sys/src/9/mtx/inb.s 567 sys/src/9/mtx/l.s 110 sys/src/9/pc/apbootstrap.s 98 sys/src/9/pc/apmjump.s 23 sys/src/9/pc/initcode.s 830 sys/src/9/pc/l.s 52 sys/src/9/pc/plan9l.s 126 sys/src/9/pc/ptclbsum386.s 54 sys/src/9/pc/rebootcode.s 29 sys/src/9/ppc/init9.s 841 sys/src/9/ppc/l.s 4501 That's 4501 lines of assembly for _all_ architechtures.=20 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 21:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 21:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19779 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 21:08:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19775 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 21:08:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 21:08:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFBF919B73; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1395819A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21C7419B71; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E475B19AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0273225410386b77a50342a0d54fb22e@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] /sys/man/2/rand Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:07:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it would appeared to be peter-ed out. now what where we saying about this being bad? i think this diff fixes it: brahma% diff /sys/man/2/rand $home/man/2 54c54 < .RI 0≤ x <2\u\s715\s10\d. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < 2\u\s715\s10\d." 60c60 < .RI 0≤ x <2\u\s731\s10\d. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < 2\u\s731\s10\d." 66c66 < .RI 0.0≤ x <1.0, --- > .RI "0.0 <= " x " < 1.0", 74c74 < .RI 0≤ x < val. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < val." 118c118 < .RI 0≤ x < val ≤ 2\u\s732\s10\d-1. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < " val " <= 2\u\s732\s10\d-1." 149c149 < .RI 0≤ x < 2\u\s732\s10\d-1. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < 2\u\s732\s10\d-1." 157c157 < .RI 0≤ x < val ≤ 2\u\s732\s10\d-1. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < " val "<= 2\u\s732\s10\d-1." been a long time since i wrote any troff. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 21:11:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 21:11:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19857 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 21:11:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19853 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 21:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 21:11:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 474C019BA8; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8819219A7D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4BF419AD4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16FE219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2296847-1160>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:09:57 -0400 Message-ID: <055301c37c4b$042f3560$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] rand(2) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is this same rand as the old unix rand? my problem being is that i want to seed it so i can get rand based regression tests to go. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 21:23:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 21:23:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20267 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 21:23:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20263 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 21:23:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 21:23:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBFD119BA7; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B3C619B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:23:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDFF719B19; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2AC619A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] rand(2) In-Reply-To: <055301c37c4b$042f3560$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zscvpjawignewjbpnnuxyzsaiv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:22:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zscvpjawignewjbpnnuxyzsaiv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's seedable and can be used for regression tests. I don't remember when I picked it up though so its probably different than Linux. --upas-zscvpjawignewjbpnnuxyzsaiv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 08:11:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 08:11:23 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2ABB819A9C; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E30CB19AD4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:11:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4BF419AD4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16FE219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2296847-1160>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:09:57 -0400 Message-ID: <055301c37c4b$042f3560$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] rand(2) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is this same rand as the old unix rand? my problem being is that i want to seed it so i can get rand based regression tests to go. --upas-zscvpjawignewjbpnnuxyzsaiv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 21:32:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 21:32:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20457 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 21:32:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20451 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 21:32:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 21:32:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4CF9199F2; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1805F199E0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:32:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B895319B46; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1A1B19B19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1246725-28667>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:05 -0400 Message-ID: <056c01c37c4d$f57c5cc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] rand(2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:27:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It's seedable and can be used for regression tests. I don't remember when I picked > it up though so its probably different than Linux. i think it is. i'll have a look at the code, but i think i'm hosed, unless i use another unorthodox solution: i have a buncha files that were generated somewhere on lunix, so i'll just snarf the output of the plan 9 awk regression tests and use them as the tree to compare against, but i have the odd other problem to look at first. then i can run the tests against the bio-fied (hazard?) awk. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 21:34:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 21:34:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20546 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 21:34:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20542 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 21:34:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 21:34:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1013D199D8; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E974919B73; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:34:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E26F819B73; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28CF2199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ziftiqjpqebwvtzavffizojmfz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:33:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ziftiqjpqebwvtzavffizojmfz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm actually mailing everyone I know to get it to stop. Anyone know the reason for it? Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or trying to circumvent something? --upas-ziftiqjpqebwvtzavffizojmfz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 05:51:25 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 05:51:23 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E6A19B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00E1119B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9FD819B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDF6319A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 05:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:52:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You may have noticed that Verisign has decided to return 69.94.110.11 as the IP for any .com or .net DNS lookup that would otherwise have returned "host not found" How to people feel about ndb coding round this ? matt --upas-ziftiqjpqebwvtzavffizojmfz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:38:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:38:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22100 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:38:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22096 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:38:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:38:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFF8819B73; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A0D019A00; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5895819A0D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B2819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <710509de3c2f084f95a1b4ba8df3d49b@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:39:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or trying to circumvent something? It is a business model. They return that IP which with a web browser takes you to a verisign web page offering web searches domain registrations. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:40:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:40:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22139 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22135 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:40:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:40:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2BC619A7D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64F4019A6B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2CE619A2A; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 327BB19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:39:55 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:39:54 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F6712A3.7090601@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty References: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> <86pti1z2e4.fsf@gic.mteege.de> In-Reply-To: <86pti1z2e4.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:39:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I have a problem whith the CD. My cpu/auth server run under vmware >and vmware try to boot from the CDROM every time. To work around I >make a copy of the Plan9 CD with "mkisofs -o mp9.iso /cdrom" (under >BSD) which is not bootable. This cd image I can mount but I'm not >sure, if this is a exact copy of the Plan9 CD. > >What is the best way to create a non bootable Plan9 CD? > > just uncheck "connected at power on" from the cd config. and then connect it manually when you want to use it. that's like leaving the cd out of the drive until you need it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:41:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:41:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22168 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:41:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22164 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:41:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:41:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D61CE19B95; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B69219A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 627D019A6B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CDA619A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:40:56 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:40:54 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F6712E0.70204@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty References: <86u17eypdh.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> <86fzixyy92.fsf@gic.mteege.de> In-Reply-To: <86fzixyy92.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias Teege wrote: >rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes: > > > >>to mount the cd and then replica/pull -v script >>where script is an edited copy of >>/dist/replica/cd. >> >> > >I solved my CD problem, transfer the plan9.iso to the cpu/auth >server and mount it via "mount /srv/9660 /n/dist >/usr/bootes/plan9.iso". After that I read man 1 replica and the >"cd" script but I didnt get it. > >I mount the fileserver via "9fs batida" to /n/batida and change the >"cd" script on the cpu/auth server like that: > >s=/n/dist/dist/replica >serverroot=/n/dist >serverlog=/dist/replica/plan9.log >serverproto=$s/plan9.proto >fn servermount { status='' } >fn serverupdate { status='' } > >fn clientmount { status='' } >c=/dist/replica >clientroot=/n/batida >clientproto=$c/plan9.proto >clientdb=$c/client/plan9.db >clientexclude=(dist/replica/client) >clientlog=$c/client/plan9.log > >applyopt=(-u -T$c/client/plan9.time) > >replica/pull -v script runs without error (after touching >/dist/replica/plan9.log) but there are no files transfered to the >fileserver. > >What do I missing? > > i'm not sure exactly, but i bet you should be setting c=/n/batida/dist/replica. as it is, it's using your local machines /dist database to decide how to handle /n/batida. if your local machine is up-to-date then no copying is going to happen on /n/batida. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:48:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:48:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22368 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22364 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:48:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C9CF19B9F; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FD8719A66; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A75F19A72; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9D6D19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:47:57 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:47:56 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F671486.2000704@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2/rand References: <0273225410386b77a50342a0d54fb22e@sdgm.net> In-Reply-To: <0273225410386b77a50342a0d54fb22e@sdgm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:47:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd@sdgm.net wrote: >it would appeared to be peter-ed out. now what where we saying about >this being bad? i think this diff fixes it: > > works fine for me, with g% whatis font font=/lib/font/bit/lucm/unicode.9.font g% your suggestion is to replace nice unicode symbols with crude ascii equivalents. my suggestion is to use a better font. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:49:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:49:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22386 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:49:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22382 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:49:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:49:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D3A519AFC; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC8A219A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:49:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 026DE19A28; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F9E919A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:48:56 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:48:55 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F6714C1.3060604@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto wrote: >I'm actually mailing everyone I know to get it to stop. Anyone >know the reason for it? Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or >trying to circumvent something? > it's a top story on google news. apparently they're trying to get extra web traffic? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:53:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:53:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22504 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:53:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22500 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:53:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:53:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D64FA19A72; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EA2C19A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:53:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5FE619AFC; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23CF619A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: <3F6714C1.3060604@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It's a real swine. I have a script that checks submitted email addresses for existing domains, no domain and you can't register in a bid to hopefully catch typos (you should see the number of ways poeple can type hotmail). Now my check always succeeds and I'm back to square one. I'm going to check the returned IP but I expect them to change it regularly to defeat such workarounds m . From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 22:59:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 22:59:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22671 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 22:59:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22666 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 22:59:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 22:59:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4888E19BAA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2EFC199F9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA7CB199F9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E512D19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:58:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > catch typos (you should see the number of ways poeple can type hotmail). ↑↑↑↑↑ You should see the number of ways people type people ☺ Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 23:02:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 23:02:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22776 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 23:02:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22772 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 23:02:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 23:02:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7799B19BB1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0F2819A72; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4704E19A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5021119988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6fec88de938a3b1d55c0536be44c1e58@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:03:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hehe in my defence it was word wrapped in Acme I was looking at it thinking "I'm sure that doesn't look right" but I'm lazy From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 23:20:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 23:20:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23291 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 23:20:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23287 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 23:20:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 23:20:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE1E119B95; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCC1019A6B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:20:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AEAA199F9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 519D419A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 14:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3F6729CE.7040706@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong References: <6fec88de938a3b1d55c0536be44c1e58@juice.thebigchoice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:18:38 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You could always use the whois information for a given IP, if you're not positive. blueberry.north_ % nslookup j8s489s8438s4.net Server: water.autumn.net.sc Address: 1.3.27.2 Name: j8s489s8438s4.net Address: 64.94.110.11 blueberry.north_ % whois -h whois.arin.net 64.94.110.11 Internap Network Services PNAP-05-2000 (NET-64-94-0-0-1) 64.94.0.0 - 64.95.255.255 VeriSign/Network Solutions PNAP-LAX-VERISI-RM-13 (NET-64-94-110-0-1) 64.94.110.0 - 64.94.110.255 # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-09-15 19:15 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. blueberry.north_ % Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Soon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 23:29:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 23:29:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23487 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 23:29:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23483 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 23:29:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 23:29:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08ED619BB4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C97A019A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2406519A6B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A67E6199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4120 invoked by uid 991); 16 Sep 2003 14:28:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20030916142854.4119.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to David Presotto message dated "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:33:22 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:28:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | I'm actually mailing everyone I know to get it to stop. Anyone | know the reason for it? Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or | trying to circumvent something? They want to MAKE MONEY FAST by sending all typos their search engine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 23:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 23:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23743 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 23:39:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23739 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 23:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 23:39:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D88D219BC1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAD5019BAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:39:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3824D19B95; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2C8C19BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] Version detecting nmap Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:39:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) There's a new version of nmap out that claims to do service fingerprinting as well as port detection. http://www.insecure.org/nmap/versionscan.html seems like none of the 21 testers consider plan9 worth bothering with : Interesting ports on tiger (192.168.1.109): (The 1191 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION 7/tcp open echo 9/tcp open discard? 19/tcp open chargen? 21/tcp open ftp 22/tcp open ssh? 23/tcp open telnet? 25/tcp open smtp 53/tcp open domain? 80/tcp open http? 110/tcp open pop-3? 113/tcp open auth? 143/tcp open imap 513/tcp open login? 565/tcp open whoami? 567/tcp open banyan-rpc? 993/tcp open imaps? 995/tcp open pop3s? 7070/tcp open realserver? 8080/tcp open http-proxy? 17007/tcp open isode-dua? 9 services unrecognized despite returning data. While I imagine someone might submit the fingerprints sooner or lter it is nice to know that sometimes obscurity works in our favour. matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 16 23:43:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 16 23:43:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23822 invoked by uid 1020); 16 Sep 2003 23:43:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23818 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2003 23:43:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 23:43:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97D2619BBC; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE95919BBB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6793419BAE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A977519B95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 14:42:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3F672F63.6000907@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Version detecting nmap References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:42:27 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) All previous versions recognize plan9's network stack as Plan 9 revision 3. Fingerprints were based on mail-in's, so expect some to come. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Soon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:11:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:11:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24540 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:11:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24536 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:11:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:11:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C48A19BBA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0426D19BA4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D118F19BAE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4479A199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04886 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8GFA3j02163 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309161510.h8GFA3j02163@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:12 EDT." <5a6e29f573b54e7ededf51c0d3ef6b9b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:10:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > plan9.9gz? that's the old 3e format. > the new format is just a cd. you want > to mount the cd and then replica/pull -v script > where script is an edited copy of /dist/replica/cd. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *Ahem* That's what /dist/replica/inst is for. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:14:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:14:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24627 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:14:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24623 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:14:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:14:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BC2719BC1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB7A4199CF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8B21199CF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ED6119BA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8GFDcj02200 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309161513.h8GFDcj02200@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:52:03 +0200." <034901c37bc2$d6ef8880$b9844051@insultant.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:13:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > who-ah!! (sp?) Oh, are you playing doggie now? That's it phonetically, but I believe they write it as, ``Ho-ah''. I have no idea what that means. Like most things they do, it's...weird...and probably has little if any meaning. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:17:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:17:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24753 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:17:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24749 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:17:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:17:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F87319BCF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2347219BAE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:17:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF52F19BBA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1249919BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06530 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8GFG2j02250 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309161516.h8GFG2j02250@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:17:52 +1200." <5.1.1.6.0.20030916090722.00a98c58@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:16:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That, and inventing the "Singleton" design pattern, for use on those > occasions when someone's holding a gun to your head trying to force you to > create an unnecessary second instance of a class. I invented the > "Doppelganger" and "Trifecta" patterns, for when you need exactly two or > three instances of a class, but they've never caught on. I like `trifecta'. I've never had much luck at the aquaduct, though. I'm not sure they invented the idea of a singleton, though (and I agree; it's actually useful). I believe they themselves say that nothing in the book was new, it was just a collection of the better known, and useful constructions. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:19:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:19:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24776 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:19:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24772 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:19:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:19:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FB0B19B46; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43A8619BAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CB5619BAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DCBE199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d1a5af1e7deb8fbbc3411966392935f@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <200309161513.h8GFDcj02200@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:18:38 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> who-ah!! (sp?) > > Oh, are you playing doggie now? That's it phonetically, but I believe > they write it as, ``Ho-ah''. I have no idea what that means. Like > most things they do, it's...weird...and probably has little if any > meaning. reminded me of 'scent of a woman'. in the good tradition of movie references on this list :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:20:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:20:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24785 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:20:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24781 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:20:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:20:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3079819BCF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FEE119BBA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:20:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D345E19BCE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 454A319BBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2760007f10ca3381191429437c40f887@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <200309161516.h8GFG2j02250@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:19:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm not sure they invented the idea of a singleton, though (and I agree; > it's actually useful). I believe they themselves say that nothing in the > book was new, it was just a collection of the better known, and useful > constructions. Yes. To me they are just the OO generation of idioms. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:32:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:32:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25035 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:32:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25031 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:32:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:32:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A36F19BBA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B9C219BC9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:32:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97F4519BC9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2D1319BBA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09575 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8GFVjj02457 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309161531.h8GFVjj02457@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:40:48 EDT." <3F6712E0.70204@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:31:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Russ Cox writes: > i'm not sure exactly, but i bet you should be setting > c=/n/batida/dist/replica. > as it is, it's using your local machines /dist database to decide > how to handle /n/batida. if your local machine is up-to-date > then no copying is going to happen on /n/batida. Please don't do this. Use what's already there. 9fs batida bind -c /n/batida /n/inst mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /path/to/plan9.iso replica/inst -v /dist/replica/inst If /dist/replica/inst doesn't exist on your system (it should; it used to be on sources, at least) you can try something else. You don't even really need the CD (except to be nice to the labs). Ostensibly, you could just do: mount -c /srv/batida /n/inst 9fs sources bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist replica/inst -v /dist/replica/inst I do something like that to update my fileserver from sources all the time. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:34:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:34:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25101 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:34:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25089 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:34:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:34:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E655919BD1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C65119BC9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:34:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CACC19BC9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0B6819BBA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10045 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8GFXuj02504 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309161533.h8GFXuj02504@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:28:54 EDT." <20030916142854.4119.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:33:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Scott Schwartz writes: > > | I'm actually mailing everyone I know to get it to stop. Anyone > | know the reason for it? Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or > | trying to circumvent something? > > They want to MAKE MONEY FAST by sending all typos their > search engine. All your typo are belong to us! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:36:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:36:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25153 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:36:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25149 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:36:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:36:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A68719BD8; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C90719BBC; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDF4A19BC9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26337199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <616f0c88d4d9cacc230a6593fd84805c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] flatassembler on Plan 9? In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C6C@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:35:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_ORBS,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Sep 16 07:57:27 EDT 2003, t.lankots@aprote.ee wrote: > $ find sys -name '*.s' -exec wc -l \{\} \; |awk 'BEGIN {sum=0} > > {print $0; sum += $1} > > END {print sum}' > 423 sys/src/9/alphapc/l.s > 197 sys/src/9/alphapc/memmove.s > 61 sys/src/9/alphapc/memset.s > 103 sys/src/9/bitsy/bitsyreset.s > 12 sys/src/9/bitsy/init9.s > 856 sys/src/9/bitsy/l.s > 119 sys/src/9/mtx/inb.s > 567 sys/src/9/mtx/l.s > 110 sys/src/9/pc/apbootstrap.s > 98 sys/src/9/pc/apmjump.s > 23 sys/src/9/pc/initcode.s > 830 sys/src/9/pc/l.s > 52 sys/src/9/pc/plan9l.s > 126 sys/src/9/pc/ptclbsum386.s > 54 sys/src/9/pc/rebootcode.s > 29 sys/src/9/ppc/init9.s > 841 sys/src/9/ppc/l.s > 4501 > > That's 4501 lines of assembly for _all_ architechtures. A few weeks ago I looked for an alternative to writing x86 assembler (especially the 16-bit mode stuff) and this was one I looked at, but it didn't look worth the effort to change the output format and figure out how to bootstrap it. Others I looked at all seemed to have similar problems or were handicapped by some form of licence. I'm always in 2 minds when it comes to this. We'd manage much better code for bootstraps, etc. but we'd run the risk of overusing it. Also, every time I need to use it is, I'm sure, the last time... The list above is a minimal set, you really do need to write some stuff in the C library in assembler too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:37:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:37:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25161 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:37:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25157 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:37:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:37:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 142E219BDE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F416619BCF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:37:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E7B819BD1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77D3F19BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8GFacH95552; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <0eccc927f753f78eeeeece72f142ffe4@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200309161531.h8GFVjj02457@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:36:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_ORBS, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Please don't do this. Use what's already there. > > 9fs batida > bind -c /n/batida /n/inst > mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /path/to/plan9.iso > replica/inst -v /dist/replica/inst Dan is right. I'd forgotten this. > If /dist/replica/inst doesn't exist on your system (it should; it used to > be on sources, at least) you can try something else. You don't even really > need the CD (except to be nice to the labs). Ostensibly, you could just > do: > > mount -c /srv/batida /n/inst > 9fs sources > bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist > replica/inst -v /dist/replica/inst > > I do something like that to update my fileserver from sources all the time. This is great for updating your file server once it's going. It's not so great for populating it from scratch -- copying from a CD will be a lot faster, due to the latency of 9P to sources. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:44:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:44:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25257 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:44:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25253 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:44:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:44:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C195519BDE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0231E19BB1; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C2F019BCF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F48019BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) id LAA16769 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309161543.LAA16769@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > This is an interesting point. Plan 9 esthetics are really nice. colors, > > fonts, and so on just "look good". Who did all that? > > glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about > it. On the contrary -- I second Ron's sentiment. I think I've had enough faux-3d chrome to last a lifetime. - Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 00:52:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 00:52:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25403 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 00:52:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25399 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 00:52:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 00:52:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B09EF19BD0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9622C19AB6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:52:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 008CF19BD0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EEBD19BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8GFpjuj015650 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:51:45 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8GFpjM2015646 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:51:45 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <200309161543.LAA16769@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:51:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > glad you like it. really glad. most people say something rude about > it. > i had to dig deep to find my comments about it, sent in a private email a few months ago: i realized something: don't know whether it's the color scheme of rio, or just the fact that plan9 is so much simpler and elegant, but i realized that my stress level goes down tremendously as soon as i start up drawterm and do some work in plan9. i find out that i can concentrate better there and spend more time thinking about what i'm doing, rather than think about why my X is running at nice -19, ponder over a bash one-liner, or wonder why xinetd keeps usb port 840 open... it was the same thing with linux and freebsd a few years back -- as soon as i moved to freebsd i realized i was swimming in calmer waters... Ron didn't comment on my email back then, but he has seen the light now :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 02:14:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 02:14:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26913 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 02:14:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26909 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 02:14:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 02:14:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5DE719BC3; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36BCC19A8B; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7DB419B90; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D4B4199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8GHD8ef010947 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8GHD6nm010946 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:06 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030916191304.H9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] PXE Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I now have a VXL Precio diskless workstation that I would like to run Plan 9 on. I can convince it to use PXE to boot, but I don't know quite what's involved to make it work properly. Right now, it looks like it doesn't even register a DHCP requests, but I really don't know enough about PXE (in fact, I think I know precisely nothing about PXE) to judge. What seems I ought to know, anyway, is how I can tuck a plan9.ini somewhere for 9pxeload to find it, if I can get PXE to load it, of course. Is anyone preapred to give me a crash course on PXE for Plan 9? Or point me to relevant documentation? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 02:29:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 02:29:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27242 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 02:29:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27238 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 02:29:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 02:29:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E24E19BC6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B586719B95; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE50419BAB; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCF4B19B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zJUH-00069I-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:19:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86brtky8lz.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3F6712E0.70204@plan9.bell-labs.com>, <200309161531.h8GFVjj02457@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:19:06 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cross@math.psu.edu (Dan Cross) writes: > Please don't do this. Use what's already there. > 9fs batida > bind -c /n/batida /n/inst > mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /path/to/plan9.iso > replica/inst -v /dist/replica/inst Is it necessary to create the directorys (29000, 68000, 68020, i386 ...) on the fileserver before running replica? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 03:07:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 03:07:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28089 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 03:07:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28085 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 03:07:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 03:07:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B1CE19ACD; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A838D19B46; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:07:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8ACC19ACD; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED37B19ACD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8GI6oH08075; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <4204c8ee4dcf7301f257cfa0c8b18fe7@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <86brtky8lz.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_ORBS, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is it necessary to create the directorys (29000, 68000, 68020, i386 > ...) on the fileserver before running replica? No, replica will do that. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 08:38:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 08:38:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2762 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 08:38:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2758 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 08:38:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 08:38:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52CBC19B71; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D117519B2E; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C594E19B46; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A7FB19ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:37:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) brahma% whatis font font=/lib/font/bit/lucm/unicode.9.font this is (more or less) what i was gonna post the other day. russ you jumped-up PhD student idiot. do your research. we don't all live in 1127[1] so don't expect the rest of the world to be like it. the troff was broken. you only accept stuff when it suits you and if it don't, well hell, i'm gonna 'do a choate' here: you don't want plan 9 fans to contribute? well i'll go an burn my bowling shirt right now punk! ps. sorry dan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 08:40:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 08:40:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2822 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 08:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2817 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 08:40:21 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 08:40:21 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9118A19BBE; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0960B19BB3; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:40:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9104E19BB0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE47C19B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4394842-18154>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:07 -0400 Message-ID: <059e01c37cab$11376240$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0273225410386b77a50342a0d54fb22e@sdgm.net> <3F671486.2000704@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2/rand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:34:24 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > your suggestion is to replace nice unicode symbols with > crude ascii equivalents. my suggestion is to use a better font. crude response on the way ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 08:48:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 08:48:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3203 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 08:48:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3199 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 08:48:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 08:48:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81A8D19BC5; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3176C19BB6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53E9B19B4A; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B06519B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8GNlIH34240; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <1c45bfbedc4dd75fbdcfdb61acb984a3@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_ORBS,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd: it would appeared to be peter-ed out. now what where we saying about this being bad? i think this diff fixes it: brahma% diff /sys/man/2/rand $home/man/2 54c54 < .RI 0≤ x <2\u\s715\s10\d. --- > .RI "0 <= " x " < 2\u\s715\s10\d." ... the troff was broken. no it isn't. it has unicode less-than-or-equal-to symbols (0x2264) in it. peter faces mean you are using a font without that symbol, somehow. or did i miss the point of your post? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 08:49:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 08:49:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3260 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 08:49:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3256 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 08:49:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 08:49:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD05A19BCF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 472CF19B36; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:49:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4236019BC6; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66EBA19BB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1245225-28666>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:52 -0400 Message-ID: <05c301c37cac$6d17c7c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309161513.h8GFDcj02200@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Design and Workmanship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:44:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I have no idea what that means. context dependant. it can be a question and the response can be an affirmative answer. not limited to the corps ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 08:52:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 08:52:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3510 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 08:52:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3506 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 08:52:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 08:52:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E22919BC7; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A49219BB0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:52:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AC7A19BB0; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D36919B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <616871-23610>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: <05dc01c37cac$e0213e40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0eccc927f753f78eeeeece72f142ffe4@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] /dist is empty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:47:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From: "Russ Cox" > Dan is right. I'd forgotten this. more fine research. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 16:30:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 16:30:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27809 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 16:30:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27805 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 16:30:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 16:30:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F74F19A96; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F10BA19A85; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2891919A7B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C274F199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27501dcbdc3060e6cf3b7d7da2c25a10@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-Reply-To: <3F6714C1.3060604@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-plqwhekscowqjeposxeshfrqxw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:17:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-plqwhekscowqjeposxeshfrqxw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit have they patented it yet? --upas-plqwhekscowqjeposxeshfrqxw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19zGCq-0004Ap-6l; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:52:24 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19zGCq-0004Ap-6l for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:49:24 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D3A519AFC; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC8A219A8D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:49:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 026DE19A28; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F9E919A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:48:56 EDT 2003 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([64.36.89.66]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:48:55 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <3F6714C1.3060604@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto wrote: >I'm actually mailing everyone I know to get it to stop. Anyone >know the reason for it? Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or >trying to circumvent something? > it's a top story on google news. apparently they're trying to get extra web traffic? --upas-plqwhekscowqjeposxeshfrqxw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:03:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:03:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32388 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:03:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32384 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:03:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:03:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1D3D19B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91E2819A8F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:03:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E99DF19A8F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEAB919A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:50:05 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>the troff was broken. i'm not sure that's right; i think the problem lies elsewhere. if it had been the use of that character, a better thing to do might have been to use \(<= so it looks right when actually printed, or run through proof or page. unfortunately \(<= would produce a different discouraging effect in your case, so there's little point in doing that. >>we don't all live in 1127[1] so don't expect the rest of >>the world to be like it. actually, i suspect russ is elsewhere, but if not, it still doesn't matter because it does work correctly at two other Plan 9 sites, with that font= (and the ones i normally use). if there is a problem, it might have been with the font file (arguably all but special-purpose ones should have those symbols), or perhaps with the troff configuration. perhaps it's drawterm (seems possible to me, but i haven't yet booted Windows to try it). might be something else, but nonetheless that original Unicode input is intended to work (in Plan 9 troff). /sys/lib/tmac/tmac.uni (which i think is undocumented) is sometimes used by documents to get even more unicode to work. the use of ≤ is built-in though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:14:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:14:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 788 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:14:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 784 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:14:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:14:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C93BE19A6D; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E935A199E5; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8170319A8B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B714119A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zYJ3-0002Ta-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Kamal R. Prasad" Message-ID: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] process migration Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:08:49 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, Im new to Plan9 for the most part. I would like to know if Plan9 supports (dynamic) process migration to achieve load balancing. If yes, pl. provide info on techniques used. thanks -kamal ------------------- UNIX systems consultant kamalp@acm.org; http://kamalpr.tripod.com/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:14:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:14:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 800 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:14:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 795 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:14:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:14:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73A5B19B80; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 072DB19B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6D2719A6D; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBCE9199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zYJ3-0002TU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Caerwyn Jones Message-ID: Organization: Comcast Online Subject: [9fans] bio bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:08:33 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The following bug in libbio occurs when seeking within the buffer: ; cat b1.c #include #include #include void main(int, char *argv[]) { Biobuf *bin; long r, n; bin = Bopen(argv[1], OREAD); n = Bseek(bin, 0, 2); Bseek(bin, n/2, 0); while((r = Bgetrune(bin)) != Beof) print("%C", r); Bseek(bin, 0, 0); while((r = Bgetrune(bin)) != Beof) print("%C", r); exits(0); } ; 8c b1.c ; 8l b1.8 ; cat t1 a b ; ./8.out t1 b b ; What I should be getting is b a b Here is the fix. ; diff /sys/src/libbio/bgetc.c bgetc.c 29a30 > bp->state = Bracteof; -Caerwyn From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:18:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:18:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 982 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:18:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 978 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:18:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:18:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D78B119BC6; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9856319A7A; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:18:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCDCC19B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F2D9199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mdlvcjhkskxwilzumipxwnaevb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:17:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mdlvcjhkskxwilzumipxwnaevb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Plan 9 processes feel so good in their nodes that they don't move. However, they are free to choose where to live on by means of cpu, rx and similar commands. hth --upas-mdlvcjhkskxwilzumipxwnaevb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Sep 17 11:14:32 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2C8119AF0; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E935A199E5; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8170319A8B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B714119A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zYJ3-0002Ta-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Kamal R. Prasad" Message-ID: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [9fans] process migration Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:08:49 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Im new to Plan9 for the most part. I would like to know if Plan9 supports (dynamic) process migration to achieve load balancing. If yes, pl. provide info on techniques used. thanks -kamal ------------------- UNIX systems consultant kamalp@acm.org; http://kamalpr.tripod.com/ --upas-mdlvcjhkskxwilzumipxwnaevb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1134 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:22:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1130 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:22:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:22:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D8EC19A26; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CFC1199B3; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:22:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4F3119A7A; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D90FB199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e09135afcb8c90696c17c6d3aea00e4@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:17:59 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it's something to do with drawterm. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 18:38:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 18:38:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1756 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 18:38:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1752 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 18:38:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 18:38:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B18A19BCF; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C01919A26; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B03F119A7C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A06719A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2927cdb2e7ad4131ebb10617c9461a89@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran In-Reply-To: <7e09135afcb8c90696c17c6d3aea00e4@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dhjbytqjocmscjrzlfmcxjrnjz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:34:32 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dhjbytqjocmscjrzlfmcxjrnjz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the instance of drawterm was simply using a different font (latin1.8.font), presumably so i could cram more on the screen, but when i switched to another one, it was fine. --upas-dhjbytqjocmscjrzlfmcxjrnjz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19zYW9-0005TA-DI; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:23:57 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19zYW9-0005TA-DI for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:22:33 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D8EC19A26; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CFC1199B3; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:22:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4F3119A7A; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D90FB199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e09135afcb8c90696c17c6d3aea00e4@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /sys/man/2:ran In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:17:59 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it's something to do with drawterm. --upas-dhjbytqjocmscjrzlfmcxjrnjz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 19:29:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 19:29:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3415 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 19:29:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3411 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 19:29:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 19:29:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77E4319BCF; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C015F19BCD; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B3AE19A8C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DF1119A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zZNW-0004Gu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:17:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86ad93wyis.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] phase error? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:17:06 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, After more 9fans reading I transfered the system to the fileserver. After that I want to make a dump but «9fs dump» gives me «mount /n/dump: attach --bad specifier». So I read 9fans archive again and try: srv -q il!batida mount /srv/il!batida /n/dump dump This works and I can do «ls /n/dump/2003» and get «0916». But a «ls /n/dump/2003/0916» gives me «phase error -- cannot happen». Nice error message. It looks like, that there is a problem with the geometry of the harddrive because the BIOS reports only 84MB where the drive is 4GB. The fs says «atasize(875545f0) 8421840->263168. So I first go for new hardware to build my fileserver or is there any I can do to get it run? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 20:58:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 20:58:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5510 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 20:58:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5506 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 20:58:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 20:58:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B595E19B42; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BB1A19A05; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 144ED19A31; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45ECE199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e05a75208976c21ab2f7f64686ea840@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ In-Reply-To: <6F2B7C62-E808-11D7-B45E-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:37:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this isn't directly related to the colo(u)?r scheme (sorry, i'm on an extended stay in London), but the esthetics more generally are really wonderful. as is the user interface in a more broad sense. just over a year ago, i began using Mac OS X as my primary OS, and my Plan 9 usage (aside from server usage) dropped significantly, much to my dismay. in general i find the Mac OS X interface really, really nice. but there remain several things i miss from plan 9, almost every hour i'm using it. i miss ^W and ^U all the time (oh, and i miss having caps lock be control, of course). i try to fade the colors as much as possible, although OS X does a much better job by default than the teletubby OS that is Win XP. Terminal.app is good, but i long for the rio windows. and any time i'm doing any programming work or lower-level admin work, i miss acme. i find it somewhat ironic that while i love the UI of OS X, there remain many elements i think Plan 9 does better. i guess about a year and a half ago, maybe longer, i saw russ demonstrate running plan 9 as a process on Win32. i'd love to be able to do this on OS X. i've tried Inferno's version, but the OS X port of Inferno is buggy, and not officially supported. i'd pay decent money for a copy of either solution. we use Macs extensivly at work, and i believe my employer would pay, as well. i realize it's exceedingly dificult to make a business out of things like that, but it remains frustrating that a solution is so close, but just out of reach. anyway: the plan 9 UI is amazing. calming, easy to use (once you understand how), and consistant. wonderful. oh, and nobody has anything *close* to how rio uses the mouse. a From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 22:40:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 22:40:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7781 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 22:40:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7777 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 22:40:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 22:40:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CDEF19B43; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F4E219A99; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40F9A19AB6; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42EB219A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8HDd9qw014857 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:09 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8HDd89R025576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:08 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8HDd8Rt008604 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:08 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Kamal R. Prasad wrote: > Im new to Plan9 for the most part. I would like to know if Plan9 > supports (dynamic) process migration to achieve load balancing. That's not properly a part of the OS, so it's not really a sensible question from my point of view. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 22:58:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 22:58:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8305 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 22:58:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8301 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 22:58:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 22:58:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44EA719B59; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 644ED19B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:58:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40E9919B45; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88D1019A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gaya.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42E63AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:57:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> Message-ID: References: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:38:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Plan9 has cpu-servers where processes reside! It is a different ball-game.. -ishwar On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Kamal R. Prasad wrote: > Hello, > > Im new to Plan9 for the most part. I would like to know if Plan9 > supports (dynamic) process migration to achieve load balancing. If > yes, pl. provide info on techniques used. > > thanks > -kamal > > ------------------- > UNIX systems consultant > kamalp@acm.org; http://kamalpr.tripod.com/ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 17 23:07:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 17 23:07:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8468 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Sep 2003 23:07:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8464 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2003 23:07:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Sep 2003 23:07:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B31D19BB5; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C43F419AF0; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:07:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAD8919B06; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 422B219AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECE624FDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DEE1927; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:18 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick Message-ID: <20030917140618.GC87883@mero.morphisms.net> References: <3F6714C1.3060604@plan9.bell-labs.com> <27501dcbdc3060e6cf3b7d7da2c25a10@caldo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27501dcbdc3060e6cf3b7d7da2c25a10@caldo.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 08:17:37AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > have they patented it yet? I'm sure they're working on it; in the meantime ISC promises a BIND patch. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 04:58:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 04:58:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15603 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 04:58:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15599 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 04:58:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 04:58:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 884F419A7C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0F3119B1B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:58:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A2AE19A90; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB0E19A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aloawkqopuxfpwjlyflhofjscm" Subject: [9fans] interested in fixing png(1)? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:57:30 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aloawkqopuxfpwjlyflhofjscm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you may have noticed that png(1) doesn't work for large png images. you may have also noticed my ramblings about it, and the fact that it still hasn't been fixed. the reason it's not fixed is because the bug appears to be very subtle. the fact that we're dealing with archived data and inflate(2) doesn't help either. the images attached and the description below are sent with hopes that somebody more experienced in dealing with libflate can find the error and fix it. if you're not interested skip the explanation below. ------ the images included in this email are what i used to debug png. they are 2x2 checkered black/white raw images of sizes 200x5103 (g.png), 200x5104 (s.png) and 200x5105 (b.png). the program I used to create them is available upon request. the first image (g.png) works fine with png(1). the second image (merely 200 bytes difference) will cause the following error, triggered at /sys/src/libflate/inflatezlib.c:62 -- plan9-2% png s.png png: inflatezlib corrupted data plan9-2% the third image doesn't work and returns: plan9-2% png b.png png: header said 5105 rows; data goes further plan9-2% ------ b.png is immensely more interesting because it happens much more often than the other one. after lacing /sys/src/cmd/jpg/readpng.c with prints (haven't gotten used to acid yet, working on it) i found out that the image uncompresses fine until the last chunk of data -- zwrite (/sys/src/cmd/jpg/readpng.c:124) is always called with the maximum amount of data (0x8000), and if you remove the check for overflow on line :152 it'll try and write data that goes way beyond what the image contains. since /sys/src/cmd/jpg/readpng.c is the only file in plan9 that uses inflatezlib() at /sys/src/libflate/inflatezlib.c:29 it's possible that inflatezlib() is in fact at fault. it becomes even more interesting if one uses writeimage() to see what actually comes as the result of the inflate procedure. adding the following to the end of zwrite() at /sys/src/cmd/jpg/readpng.c:158 shows that the image is in fact fine, apart from the last chunk of data, which it is unable to decode: { int fd; char name[10]; Rawimage *c = totruecolor(image, CRGB24); sprint(name, "%4.4x.bit", z->row); fd = create(name, OWRITE, 0644); if(writerawimage(fd, c) < 0) fprint(2, "png: out.png: write error: %r\n"); free(c->chans[0]); free(c); close(fd); } all images (g.png, s.png and b.png) are being decoded identically until the last call to zwrite. however, with larger images (i've tried with a 4000x4000 checkered b/w image) there's an off-by-one error somewhere at the middle of the image. i haven't been able to pinpoint what triggers it, whether it happens at a specific offset of the image, memory or size. if you use the above code to monitor the decoding of a normal, multi-colored png image (a screenshot, for example) you will see that the result actually makes even less sense -- the colors are off towards the black, and the image's position is slightly askew. results vary with the image... that's about it, if you need the program that created the attached images email me off the list... g'luck: andrey --upas-aloawkqopuxfpwjlyflhofjscm Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=g.png Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAMgAABPvCAIAAABupYoUAAAAB3RJTUUH0wkRERk29JVjbAAA 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4jowf3xszKvrwJx4bo05cR2YPz425tV1YE48t8acuA7MHx8b8+o6MCeeW2NOXAfmj4+NeXUd mBPPrTEnrgPzx8fGvLoOzInn1pgT14H542NjXl0H5sRza8yJ68D88bExr64Dc+K5NebEdWD+ +NiYV9eBOfHcGnPiOjB/fGzMq+vAnHhujTlxHZg/Pjbm1XVgTjy3xpy4DswfHxvz6jowJ55b Y05cB+aPj415dR2YE8+tMSeuA/PHx8a8ug7MiefWmBPXgfnjY2NeXQfmxHNrzInrwPzxsTGv rgNz4rk15sR1YP742JhX14E58dwac+I6MH98bMyr68CceG6NOXEdmD8+NubVdXjsy7EBADAI AyD/v7of1JiZjQXmxNM15sTnwLy4bMxfnwNz4ukac+JzYF5cNuavz4E58XSNOfE5MC8uG/PX 58CceLrGnPgcmBeXjfnrc2BOPF1jTnwOzIvLxvz1OTAnnq4xJz4H5sVlY/76HJgTT9eYE58D 8+KyMX99DsyJp2vMic+BeXHZmL8+B+bE0zXmxOfAvLhszF+fA3Pi6Rpz4nNgXlw25q/PgTnx dI058TkwLy4b89fnwJx4usac+ByYF5eN+etzYE48XWNOfA7Mi8vG/PU5MCeerjEnPgfmxWVj /vocmBNP15gTnwPz4rIxf30OzImna8yJz4F5cdmYvz4H5sTTNebE58C8uGzMX58Dc+LpGnPi c2BeXDbmr8+BOfF0jTnxOTAvLhvz1+fAnHi6xpz4HJgXl43563NgTjxdY058DsyLy8b89Tkw J56uMSc+B+bFZWP++hyYE0/XmBOfA/PisjF/fQ7MiadrzInPgXlx2fi1L8cGAMAgDID8/+p+ YBNnNhZ4dR2YE8+tMSeuA/PHx8a8ug7MiefWmBPXgfnjY2NeXQfmxHNrzInrwPzxsTGvrgNz 4rk15sR1YP742JhX14E58dwac+I6MH98bMzak+QsAAAABklEQVSrH6QGas0d3jd+AAAAAElF TkSuQmCC --upas-aloawkqopuxfpwjlyflhofjscm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 06:09:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 06:09:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16574 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 06:09:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16570 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 06:09:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 06:09:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E92F19B50; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C121199BC; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:09:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6AA0B19B31; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.46.36.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 84F9419B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h8HL7pkf036554 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:07:54 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup10.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.25]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h8HL7msD090896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:07:49 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03091800052700.00523@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:05:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://ask.km.ru/3p/plan9faq.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 07:24:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 07:24:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17847 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 07:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17843 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 07:24:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 07:24:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB8D319B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6644819B17; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13EF519AF6; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D77D19B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e2318da21f80c48c27b2c04d778b4bb@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] phase error? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <86ad93wyis.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:23:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) dumps are created automatically at 05:00 (5 AM) each day or if you type "dump" on the file server console. The phase error is worrisome; you might try typing cfs main check on your file server console to see if it's okay. The atasize message is reporting that the ata driver sees 8,421,840 sectors (4,311,982,080 bytes), which is equivalent to 263,168 file server blocks (it's discarding 464 sectors for some reason), which implies that you are using a block size of 16K, which is rather large for magnetic-media cw file systems; 4K is more typical. What does typing "printconf" on your file server console produce? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 08:29:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 08:29:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18890 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 08:29:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18886 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 08:29:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 08:29:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D8B919BB0; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2F1C19B1C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E7D519B25; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9B9219B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from woo (mail@pm3n4p26.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.170]) by idiom.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8HNSqae035900 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:28:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@idiom.com) Received: from ru by woo with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19zliQ-0000Zs-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:28:06 -0700 To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt Message-Id: Subject: [9fans] size of Plan 9 user base Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:28:06 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) one way to estimate the size of a software's user base is to measure the volume of traffic on mailing lists devoted to the software. so, here's some statistics about the 9fans mailing list, created by looking at the file size information on the 9fans archive web page http://bio.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/9fans/ from Dec 2002 through May of this year, the latest month for which the web page has information, there was 5.0 "megs" of traffic on the list. that volume of traffic is about the same as that of the first 6 months of 2002 (5.05 megs) and the first 6 months of 2001 (5.11 megs). for the 6 months starting the month third edition was released, under the new Plan 9 Open-Source License (Jun 2000), volume was slightly higher (5.3 megs) mostly because of very heavy traffic the month of the release and the month after. in conclusion, traffic on 9fans has not gone up since the Plan 9 Open-Source License, but it hasn't gone down significantly either: latest results are only 6% less than the results for the first 6 months of the 3d edition's release, which is probably within the range of experimental error (from, eg, my not consistently using the same 6 months of the year). I'm hoping that the new, open-source-initiative-approved license will grow the user base next few years. P.S. tedious details. since Plan 9 users tend to be perfectionists and I do not want to be corrected, I point out that by "meg" this message probably means 1000*1024 bytes (because the web page's information is mostly in units of KB but I did not want to use KB because of the false impression it gives of accuracy). also, there was a change in mailing list software Sep 2000 which might skew volume a little if one software adds more headers than the other. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 08:32:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 08:32:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18980 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 08:32:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18976 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 08:32:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 08:32:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAB6019B31; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B1F4199B3; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30AB919B1C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D22C199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from woo (mail@pm3n4p26.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.170]) by idiom.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8HNVcae038160 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@idiom.com) Received: from ru by woo with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19zlkw-0000aH-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:30:42 -0700 To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt Message-Id: Subject: [9fans] name resolution Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:30:42 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) in Linux, probably because of glibc, a web browser (well, only tested with Lynx) doing a domain-name lookup cannot be interrupted by the "stop button" (more precisely, the "z" key in Lynx). so, if you mistakenly follow a link and the name server takes 10 seconds to respond, the "stop button" in particular and the browser in general freezes for 10 seconds. I'm wondering if Plan 9 has the same restriction/property. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 09:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 09:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20671 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 09:21:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20666 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 09:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 09:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96E9619B1B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1759E19B66; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7645519B1B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A44FE199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8I1ch101221 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:38:43 -0400 Received: from 135.214.150.100 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61137.135.214.150.100.1063849123.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <1e05a75208976c21ab2f7f64686ea840@9srv.net> References: <1e05a75208976c21ab2f7f64686ea840@9srv.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:38:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, These are the things I like in Plan 9 user interface: - When the OS starts, it gives me a really clean screen. No menu bar, no icons, nothing. Just a clean slate. I liked it so much, I manually removed most of the icons in my Windows machine just to get closer to Plan 9 style. May be I should also set my Wallpaper to a plain gray image. :-) I also like the windows with just the borders. - I like Acme a lot. It is simple and powerful. In particular, I like the 3- button mouse usage and the Euro font (default font). One problem, though, is I like the font so much, I find it difficult to use Plan 9 with a resolution less than 1280x1024. And I miss Cut-and-Paste (with mouse) feature of Plan 9 UI in every other OSes. Cant they atleast add it as a configurable feature? Regards dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 10:06:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 10:06:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22506 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 10:06:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22502 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 10:06:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 10:06:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4427519B66; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CEB319A6F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7D9119A7A; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 57A6419A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17141 invoked by uid 991); 18 Sep 2003 01:05:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20030918010513.17140.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] name resolution In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Richard Uhtenwoldt message dated "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:30:42 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:05:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | in Linux, probably because of glibc, a web browser (well, only tested | with Lynx) doing a domain-name lookup cannot be interrupted by the | "stop button" (more precisely, the "z" key in Lynx). Nah, if the program isn't event driven, a signal still ought to be able to interrupt the syscall. Lynx probably just doesn't bother. | I'm wondering if Plan 9 has the same restriction/property. Plan 9 has a much better bug: if a fileserver doesn't answer 9p messages, a communicating process blocked in read/write never gets unblocked and can't be killed with a signal. Sigh. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 10:24:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 10:24:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23289 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 10:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23285 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 10:24:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 10:24:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 442C619B4F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D10AB19A6F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2997F19A7A; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 810AD19A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id E58833939; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D9113937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3168.199.98.17.56.1063847853.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <20030918010513.17140.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> References: <20030918010513.17140.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] name resolution From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:17:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > | in Linux, probably because of glibc, a web browser (well, only tested > | with Lynx) doing a domain-name lookup cannot be interrupted by the > | "stop button" (more precisely, the "z" key in Lynx). > > Nah, if the program isn't event driven, a signal still ought to be able > to interrupt the syscall. Lynx probably just doesn't bother. > Pressing "z" sends a signal? Lynx is pretty good with "z" during other operations - I'd guess that under *n!x socket connection is harder to mulithread (?) - I got the same result under ScumOS. > | I'm wondering if Plan 9 has the same restriction/property. The Plan 9 browser has no bugs. ☺ > Plan 9 has a much better bug: if a fileserver doesn't answer 9p messages, > a communicating process blocked in read/write never gets unblocked and > can't be killed with a signal. Sigh. Coool!!! --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 11:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 11:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25089 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 11:02:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25085 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 11:02:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 11:02:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDA1F19A8B; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F2E419A31; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:02:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AEB519A7C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF3D519A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a5f19ac9308c5baf2cf3ecf8ac24146@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] size of Plan 9 user base From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:01:28 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Can you also provide stats for the number of messages, so we can compare ourselves to the *BSDs? Here's what they amount to: http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=78526&cid=6962570 That will also give us a chance to prepare in case slashdot suddenly opens up a Plan 9 section :) andrey PS: One theory that i find interesting is that Plan 9 has already been dead for a while. We gather here just to worship Glenda. "We just do it for Glenda" they said... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 11:13:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 11:13:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25612 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 11:13:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25601 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 11:13:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 11:13:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 398A819B4F; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5775119A7C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBE3519A7C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0416D19A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0850b30202afde9bdd64b574ee5cd0c0@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <61137.135.214.150.100.1063849123.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:12:52 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > - I like Acme a lot. It is simple and powerful. In particular, I like the 3- > button mouse usage and the Euro font (default font). One problem, though, > is I like the font so much, I find it difficult to use Plan 9 with a > resolution less than 1280x1024. And I miss Cut-and-Paste (with mouse) > feature of Plan 9 UI in every other OSes. Cant they atleast add it as a > configurable feature? add the font as a configurable feature? that's available as the -f and -F options to acme (the Font acme command switches between the two)... i can cope reading email at 1024x768 with the euro.8 font (doing that right now, in fact) but for programming in such small resolutions i switch to 7x13, which is thinner, fixed size and gives you more space for code. it also supports more unicode glyphs than euro.8... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 12:52:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 12:52:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30146 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 12:52:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30140 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 12:52:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 12:52:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29FE119B66; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10E1B19A0C; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:52:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9362819A12; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2E7119A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8I5AV101584 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:10:31 -0400 Received: from 172.193.216.254 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1065.172.193.216.254.1063861831.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <0850b30202afde9bdd64b574ee5cd0c0@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <0850b30202afde9bdd64b574ee5cd0c0@plan9.ucalgary.ca> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:10:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> - I like Acme a lot. It is simple and powerful. In particular, I like >> the 3- button mouse usage and the Euro font (default font). One >> problem, though, is I like the font so much, I find it difficult to >> use Plan 9 with a resolution less than 1280x1024. And I miss >> Cut-and-Paste (with mouse) feature of Plan 9 UI in every other OSes. >> Cant they atleast add it as a configurable feature? > > add the font as a configurable feature? that's available as the -f and > -F options to acme (the Font acme command switches between the two)... No, I meant having Plan9-like cut-and-paste feature in Windows and Linux (X Windows). > i can cope reading email at 1024x768 with the euro.8 font (doing that > right now, in fact) but for programming in such small resolutions i > switch to 7x13, which is thinner, fixed size and gives you more space > for code. it also supports more unicode glyphs than euro.8... If I am right, the font wasnt as neat looking as the euro.8. The euro.8 is as good as an anti-aliased font in PDF. dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 13:15:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 13:15:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31245 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 13:15:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31241 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 13:15:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 13:15:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B00C719BCD; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF54319BBA; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCC2D19B4F; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 48E8C199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5998 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 04:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 04:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 04:14:26 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8I4EQn79302; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:14:26 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <1d917f12f35efeace54f8b4bb37c6a52@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] g++ From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:14:24 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "On Thu Sep 18 12:53:25 JST 2003, vdharani@infernopark.com wrote:" > No, I meant having Plan9-like cut-and-paste feature in Windows and Linux (X > Windows). Mouse chording is my best beloved feature of acme. If an editor has the chording and searching on button 3, I would be sufficiently comfortable with it. Even if it's the Windows Notepad, really. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 16:18:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 16:18:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7917 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 16:18:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7908 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 16:18:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 16:18:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0519019BD2; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A07D119A05; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:18:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 938C319B17; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B32CC19A05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sources changes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:17:06 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Roughly 150 files have just been pushed out to sources. Could somebody at the labs summarise the changes? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 18:14:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 18:14:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13290 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 18:14:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13286 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 18:14:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 18:14:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9BD019B21; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 592EE19B21; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D61A219B17; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1A4019A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zucv-0004Y9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:59:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Kamal R. Prasad" Message-ID: <181e352f.0309172305.5c4b343d@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <181e352f.0309162302.3a4bd65a@posting.google.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:58:04 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ishwar@cps.cmich.edu (Ishwar Rattan) wrote in message news:... > Plan9 has cpu-servers where processes reside! It is a > different ball-game.. > > -ishwar > > does it allow processes from moving from cpu server A to cpu server B after executing from sometime on server A? how is this different from UNIX? thsnks -kamal > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Kamal R. Prasad wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Im new to Plan9 for the most part. I would like to know if Plan9 > > supports (dynamic) process migration to achieve load balancing. If > > yes, pl. provide info on techniques used. > > > > thanks > > -kamal > > > > ------------------- > > UNIX systems consultant > > kamalp@acm.org; http://kamalpr.tripod.com/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 19:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 19:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15772 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 19:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15768 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 19:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 19:06:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5395919BB9; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03A09199FD; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:06:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03F1919A6A; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1698919A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <948281b86b66dede835fe0b44ba0c92b@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] eia overruns at 115k baud... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:05:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, This is not really surprising but I get serial port overruns on /dev/eia1 when reading at 115k baud (450Mhz PII). Unfortunately I need this rate to talk to the bootstrap the embedded systems we use here, and big xilinxes have BIG image files. The serial interface does not use any handshaking, though it is a stop and wait protocol and the packest are only 512 bytes, so that size of RX buffer should be sufficent. Just before I start hacking, anyone know of any inherent limitations in the which might scupper me? I guess I need 1ms interrupt latency (16 byte FIFOs), is this too much to expect from a multitasking kernel? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 22:04:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 22:04:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20467 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 22:04:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20463 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 22:04:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 22:04:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 122CF19AA5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0AD319A15; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:04:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6485F19A15; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D03BD1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sources changes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:03:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Roughly 150 files have just been pushed out to sources. > Could somebody at the labs summarise the changes? A summer's worth of us falling behind. Nothing major. New features documented. Almost all of it well soaked. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 22:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 22:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21128 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 22:25:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21124 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 22:25:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 22:25:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2294719BBA; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ED8619AA6; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6339119AE0; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE99419A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3faca6e98b4b576f7c74aa1e573b9aab@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sources changes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:24:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I should add that there will be many new binaries appearing today, to finish the job. If you're not into tracking the latest churn, you might want to wait a few days before pulling. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 22:26:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 22:26:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21153 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 22:26:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21149 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 22:26:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 22:26:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90F9919B32; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 652D719AA6; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03CAD19B32; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4D2319B89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309172305.5c4b343d@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:25:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) No, there is no process migration. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 22:39:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 22:39:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21777 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 22:39:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21773 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 22:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 22:39:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DD4A19BCF; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B336919AEC; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:39:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81B2819AEC; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7984919A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcRqw012104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:29 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcRdT002561 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcQ7W002696 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:26 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309172305.5c4b343d@posting.google.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Kamal R. Prasad wrote: > does it allow processes from moving from cpu server A to cpu server B > after executing from sometime on server A? how is this different from > UNIX? it's not, neither Plan 9 nor Unix support this in a general way. There are systems that support this in a limited way, however. People keep wanting migration across OS instances to work the way that it works on CPUs in an SMP. It doesn't, and never has, except in very special cases. It's easy to get the easy parts right, hard to get the hard parts right, and impossible to get the impossible parts right. Most people stop at easy and call it a day. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 23:12:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 23:12:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22847 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 23:12:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22843 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 23:12:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 23:12:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E0E819B4A; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B852019A33; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:12:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AA9419AA6; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8108B19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e796feeedc8d5eaafbe5763d5fa8e09@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gwvsmftdqwuqqwfdjwroahpoyq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:08:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gwvsmftdqwuqqwfdjwroahpoyq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit some years ago, with an early Plan 9, when i was still at the university, an undergraduate looked at process migration as his 3rd year and MEng project, using Plan 9 running on several loosely-coupled 68030 cards in an Eltec VME crate, with a PC running Plan 9 providing some form of monitoring and control. as a project it worked out quite well, and he'd got it to the stage where he could shift processes from one card to another. the student made any necessary kernel changes himself even though he hadn't touched any operating system before, with relatively little advice from me. (I'd done the Eltec port for an earlier frame-grabbing robot control project.) my view of OS-based process migration (outside rather specialised cases) before the project would have been quite well summed up by ron minnich's comment; i don't think it has changed much since then (outside rather specialised cases). --upas-gwvsmftdqwuqqwfdjwroahpoyq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 19zz0L-0002De-99; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:39:30 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 19zz0L-0002De-99 for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:39:30 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DD4A19BCF; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B336919AEC; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:39:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81B2819AEC; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7984919A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcRqw012104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:29 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcRdT002561 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8IDcQ7W002696 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:26 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] process migration In-Reply-To: <181e352f.0309172305.5c4b343d@posting.google.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:38:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Kamal R. Prasad wrote: > does it allow processes from moving from cpu server A to cpu server B > after executing from sometime on server A? how is this different from > UNIX? it's not, neither Plan 9 nor Unix support this in a general way. There are systems that support this in a limited way, however. People keep wanting migration across OS instances to work the way that it works on CPUs in an SMP. It doesn't, and never has, except in very special cases. It's easy to get the easy parts right, hard to get the hard parts right, and impossible to get the impossible parts right. Most people stop at easy and call it a day. ron --upas-gwvsmftdqwuqqwfdjwroahpoyq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 23:35:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 23:35:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23480 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 23:35:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23476 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 23:35:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 23:35:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08DD119B21; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CE9F19A40; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:35:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 776CB19A9F; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98F5319A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c16c62c8022fced7a7716e8db4a7118@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-Reply-To: <710509de3c2f084f95a1b4ba8df3d49b@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zvyfhtlccupvsplezsmtttspqn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:34:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zvyfhtlccupvsplezsmtttspqn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All that address ever did for me was send packets into never never land. Guess they crashed before I ever got to see their web page. --upas-zvyfhtlccupvsplezsmtttspqn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:38:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 09:38:24 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD55B19A28; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 756B3199CF; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:38:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5895819A0D; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B2819A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <710509de3c2f084f95a1b4ba8df3d49b@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:39:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is verisign incompetent, hacked, or trying to circumvent something? It is a business model. They return that IP which with a web browser takes you to a verisign web page offering web searches domain registrations. --upas-zvyfhtlccupvsplezsmtttspqn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 23:39:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 23:39:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23568 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 23:39:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23564 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 23:39:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 23:39:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EFFC19AB5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DB7C19AA2; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:39:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2602319AA2; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2063419A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2bddc1075830651aa9e8a909c6a4991d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong In-Reply-To: <3F6729CE.7040706@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fwqgufttkcpgznglpkqckzdmvh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:38:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fwqgufttkcpgznglpkqckzdmvh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tain't good enough. The whois database is very flakey. I've been using it for plan 9's country check and once you leave arin, you start getting some very odd stuff. Like the netherlands claiming the whole address space, bad redirections from arin to the other db's, ... --upas-fwqgufttkcpgznglpkqckzdmvh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 10:20:33 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 10:20:30 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 448F019BA4; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D97D7199F9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AEAA199F9; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 519D419A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-32-231.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.32.231 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2003 14:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3F6729CE.7040706@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong References: <6fec88de938a3b1d55c0536be44c1e58@juice.thebigchoice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:18:38 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You could always use the whois information for a given IP, if you're not positive. blueberry.north_ % nslookup j8s489s8438s4.net Server: water.autumn.net.sc Address: 1.3.27.2 Name: j8s489s8438s4.net Address: 64.94.110.11 blueberry.north_ % whois -h whois.arin.net 64.94.110.11 Internap Network Services PNAP-05-2000 (NET-64-94-0-0-1) 64.94.0.0 - 64.95.255.255 VeriSign/Network Solutions PNAP-LAX-VERISI-RM-13 (NET-64-94-110-0-1) 64.94.110.0 - 64.94.110.255 # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-09-15 19:15 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. blueberry.north_ % Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Soon. --upas-fwqgufttkcpgznglpkqckzdmvh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 18 23:46:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 18 23:46:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23718 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Sep 2003 23:46:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23714 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2003 23:46:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 23:46:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1488319B31; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D93319B89; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8321619AA2; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0D6F19A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <76e6091ee713d2fb1857a0dd75d58ac0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PXE In-Reply-To: <20030916191304.H9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pyrtmuveqllhykugjjqejjpgic" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:45:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pyrtmuveqllhykugjjqejjpgic Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No documentation. I have to finish the PXE stuff to make it a little easier. Right now, I use PXE to get a 9load and then type the real kernel address by hand when 9load prompts. What I intend to do is have an extra entry in the ndb that indicates which file to download for PXE and which for 9load. I can distinguish using the vendor id (or some such). I'm on vacation but I'll finish it when I get back, not a lot of work. --upas-pyrtmuveqllhykugjjqejjpgic Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 13:14:38 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 16 13:14:35 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AA2719BBA; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE25F199D7; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7DB419B90; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D4B4199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8GHD8ef010947 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8GHD6nm010946 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:06 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030916191304.H9751@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] PXE Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_ORBS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I now have a VXL Precio diskless workstation that I would like to run Plan 9 on. I can convince it to use PXE to boot, but I don't know quite what's involved to make it work properly. Right now, it looks like it doesn't even register a DHCP requests, but I really don't know enough about PXE (in fact, I think I know precisely nothing about PXE) to judge. What seems I ought to know, anyway, is how I can tuck a plan9.ini somewhere for 9pxeload to find it, if I can get PXE to load it, of course. Is anyone preapred to give me a crash course on PXE for Plan 9? Or point me to relevant documentation? ++L --upas-pyrtmuveqllhykugjjqejjpgic-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 00:11:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 00:11:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24231 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 00:11:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24227 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 00:11:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 00:11:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D71BA19AB5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12E8119AF5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BD7C19A9F; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 514C619A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] eia overruns at 115k baud... In-Reply-To: <948281b86b66dede835fe0b44ba0c92b@yourdomain.dom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wrfgwnklgbpuhahytepgobfzqt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:10:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wrfgwnklgbpuhahytepgobfzqt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shouldn't be, I use 115k serial ports all the time. Sure the fifo's are on? Sure they are at 16? Look at the uart code. --upas-wrfgwnklgbpuhahytepgobfzqt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 18 06:06:21 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 18 06:06:18 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C40DB19B1C; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81A5B19A6A; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03F1919A6A; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1698919A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <948281b86b66dede835fe0b44ba0c92b@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] eia overruns at 115k baud... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:05:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, This is not really surprising but I get serial port overruns on /dev/eia1 when reading at 115k baud (450Mhz PII). Unfortunately I need this rate to talk to the bootstrap the embedded systems we use here, and big xilinxes have BIG image files. The serial interface does not use any handshaking, though it is a stop and wait protocol and the packest are only 512 bytes, so that size of RX buffer should be sufficent. Just before I start hacking, anyone know of any inherent limitations in the which might scupper me? I guess I need 1ms interrupt latency (16 byte FIFOs), is this too much to expect from a multitasking kernel? -Steve --upas-wrfgwnklgbpuhahytepgobfzqt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 00:26:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 00:26:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24626 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 00:26:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24622 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 00:26:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 00:26:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E952619B89; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C370419A17; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:26:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FD66199F0; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C346F19AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20878 invoked by uid 991); 18 Sep 2003 15:25:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20030918152533.20877.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] eia overruns at 115k baud... In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to David Presotto message dated "Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:10:12 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:25:33 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | Shouldn't be, I use 115k serial ports all the time. Sure the fifo's | are on? Sure they are at 16? Look at the uart code. We talked about this a few months ago... at that time the uart was definately getting overruns, but we decided it was ok because the network layer retried the few lost packets automatically. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 00:55:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 00:55:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24981 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 00:55:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24977 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 00:55:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 00:55:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3217519BCA; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8656B19B89; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:55:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87A7F19B06; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB02D199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34c61bd8a1c16622d30fd58689593db6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] eia overruns at 115k baud... In-Reply-To: <20030918152533.20877.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:54:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu Sep 18 11:26:34 EDT 2003, schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu wrote: > | Shouldn't be, I use 115k serial ports all the time. Sure the fifo's > | are on? Sure they are at 16? Look at the uart code. > > We talked about this a few months ago... at that time the uart was > definately getting overruns, but we decided it was ok because the network > layer retried the few lost packets automatically. I don't remember that being the conclusion at all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 01:07:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 01:07:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25195 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 01:07:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25191 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 01:07:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 01:07:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4DA719BAA; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E432119B06; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:07:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E03619B06; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AAA0A19AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-40-43.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.40.43 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2003 16:06:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3F69E5ED.8060806@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong References: <2bddc1075830651aa9e8a909c6a4991d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:05:49 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >The whois database is very flakey. > Right, I'm just saying it seems to work for Verisign network addresses (for the time being). Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Soon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 02:23:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 02:23:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26660 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 02:23:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26656 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 02:23:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 02:23:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D560F19BCF; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CB0219A21; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:23:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C865119B89; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74CC1199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from woo (mail@pm3n4p17.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.161]) by idiom.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8IHM6NJ099714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@idiom.com) Received: from ru by woo with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A02Sz-0001Vz-00; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:21:17 -0700 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] name resolution From: Richard Uhtenwoldt Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:21:17 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Nah, if the program isn't event driven, a signal still ought to be able >to interrupt the syscall. Lynx probably just doesn't bother. that's right: during a name resolution in Lynx, sig intr (^c) and sig susp (^z) have their usual effect: namely, sig intr kills the Lynx. because the ftp command does so, it is almost certain that Lynx _could_ have a handler (terminology?) that customizes the behavior of sig intr. in particular, if ftp is blocked on a name lookup, sig intr gets you right back to the command prompt. but like you say they did not bother. >Plan 9 has a much better bug: if a fileserver doesn't answer 9p messages, >a communicating process blocked in read/write never gets unblocked and >can't be killed with a signal. Sigh. I'm curious whether _that_ is because no one has bothered (to fix it) or because previous design and implementation decisions make fixing it really awkward. if a fileserver doesn't answer 9p messages, can a signal (note) kill the _parent_ of the blocked process? can the parent be made to handle a signal by killing the child? (I hope that's clear!) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 03:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 03:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27342 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27338 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53F0D19BAA; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B187619ACE; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:02:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BB0719AB5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DF7C1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8II10j14706 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309181801.h8II10j14706@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] size of Plan 9 user base In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:01:28 MDT." <2a5f19ac9308c5baf2cf3ecf8ac24146@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ``Glenda, save us!'' (Okay, sorry, I couldn't resist the Star Trek reference.) - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 04:59:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 04:59:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29174 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 04:59:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29170 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 04:59:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 04:59:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3388819BDC; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE6BC19AD5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EFF219AD5; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4399A199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8IJwAtE025045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8IJwAfW067677 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Verisign's new "all your unregistered domains belong to us" trick In-Reply-To: <4c16c62c8022fced7a7716e8db4a7118@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: <20030918135623.D40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <4c16c62c8022fced7a7716e8db4a7118@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:58:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > All that address ever did for me was send packets into never never land. Some network carriers have installed null routes for that IP address, so one of your upstream networks could be sending the packets into the black hole. --lyndon She was attracted to me by my intellectual curiosity. -- Vice President Dan Quayle, talking about wife Marilyn From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 13:21:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 13:21:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15155 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 13:21:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15151 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 13:21:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 13:21:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B15D19AD3; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E7C19A9B; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C734019AA9; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCCE5199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8J4KBbk007911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:20:11 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8J4KBcZ016533 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:20:11 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8J4KA7W001197 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:20:10 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] some good news Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:20:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) we just verifed that 9load darn near works on the EPIA-800 under linuxbios. You can get these boards for cheap: see cwlinux.com or look at the M100 mediabox from ituner.com. I think a little tweaking and we're there. One thing though: any via-rhine support pending in Plan 9 :-) And it has video! So that's our next target. Runs on a 12V wall wart. Small, simple, and I have determined that you can drop them and they still work. That was of course part of a formal test program. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 15:08:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 15:08:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20733 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 15:08:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20729 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 15:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 15:08:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A509119AD3; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85EF019ABC; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49AC719A9B; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CAA219A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <839cda4a8f51f642839cac76de286f23@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] bayesian spam filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:07:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Nemo cleaned up my spam filtering scripts to make them work again, and then I cleaned up some other things, and I put them in the distribution. They're still fairly experimental -- at the least I plan to rename the internal commands to make a little more sense. Here's an overview that will serve as documentation until I get a chance to do a better job. I'm pushing this out because the minutely 150kB attachments I've been getting were enough to make me want to have a filter in place before going to sleep for a few hundred messages. The basic idea is that your mail and your spam are so different that simple word frequency analysis is more than enough to tell them apart. Further, the character of spam changes only slowly over time, so as long as the filter can keep up, it never falls out of date. To use it, run /mail/lib/setup.bayes. That will save a copy of your current pipeto, if you have one, and write a pipeto that invokes the bayes filter. Each user has their own profile of what is spam and what is normal mail. To start, setup.bayes copies profiles based on the spam we've collected over the last year and based on my own mailbox from a few months ago. These should be good enough to get you started, and then the profiles will adapt to you as you use the system. When mail comes in, it is classified. The result is logged in /mail/box/you/_bounced. If the message is deemed spam, it is delivered normally but marked with SPAM: at the beginning of the subject line. This is a good way to run the filter at first, when you're still training it. Once you're more confident in the filter's choices, you can edit $mail/pipeto to change what happens to spam. Change the line "spool-tagged-spam" to, say, "spool /mail/box/$USER/spam" to spool spam into a separate "spam" mbox. Occasionally you will want to "mail -f spam" to view the spam mail box and see if anything important has fallen into it. I've found that commercial email (like receipts from online stores) and spam are very hard for this filter to tell apart, so these almost always must be fished out of the spam box. Except for that, I get hardly any misclassified messages. It's fine to delete the spam that has accumulated. When the filter classifies a message as spam or not, it updates its internal profiles. Assuming it's making correct decisions, this helps it track changing message profiles. Of course, if it makes a wrong decision, updating the profile will compound that wrong decision, making it more likely next time. So you need to explicitly tell it about mistakes so that the mistakes don't compound. At a nedmail prompt after viewing the misclassified message, you can do one of ||upas/spam - note that message should be spam ||upas/unspam - note that message is NOT spam ||upas/isspam - show words used to make decision about whether message is spam For example, if you got a message about the Holmdel Coffee Hour, you might run ||upas/spam followed by ||upas/isspam to see if the profile had changed enough to mark that message as spam. If not, and you were feeling persistent, you might run ||upas/spam again and again until the profile had changed enough. Acme Mail users can type and then execute Spam, Unspam, or Isspam in the message tag to accomplish the same things. The spam filter is computationally a little expensive. It adds a second or two to the delivery of messages. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 19 17:44:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 19 17:44:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28445 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Sep 2003 17:44:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28441 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2003 17:44:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 17:44:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C00BF19AAD; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AA6D19A9B; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A71E519A9B; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4EA019A9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A0Gkk-0001xs-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86oexhdgpu.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <86ad93wyis.fsf@gic.mteege.de>, <9e2318da21f80c48c27b2c04d778b4bb@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] phase error? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:36:07 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) geoff@collyer.net (Geoff Collyer) writes: > What does typing "printconf" on your file server console produce? I made a mistake on config. I use =ABfilsys ch0fh0=BB in the fs config which can't work. ;-) My fileserver is now up and running. Realy nice system. Thanks for the help Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 01:00:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 01:00:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7815 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7811 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5785D19BD6; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95F8119AD8; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:00:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 776BB19A9D; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E848319A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A0Na5-0001yV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:54:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dennis Decker Jensen Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] a plan9 for apple Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:51:43 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=SEMIFORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,WORK_AT_HOME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Greetings, I'm a student currently using a debian gnu/linux workstation at home (being a fan of free software and all). For the future I'm considering a laptop, specifically an ibook or powerbook from apple. I've searched the wiki and usenet, but nothing turned up. Can there be a plan9 for an apple? :-) I've been using a plan9 environment on my debain box for a while, and have fallen more and more in love with it. Now that plan9 is opened up (I only found out about the new license a little while ago) I would make sense to buy something suitable. Thanks, Dennis Decker Jensen From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 01:19:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 01:19:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8475 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 01:19:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8471 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 01:19:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 01:19:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAB1019BAA; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0869C19AD3; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43EB319ADD; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phoenix.aztec-net.com (thc.anet.to [216.185.73.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51A5619AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309191215.AA76283966@phoenix.aztec-net.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: X-Sender: To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , <9fans@cse.psu.edu>, To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , Cc: ".alt.za"@phoenix.aztec-net.com, , , , , Cc: , , , , , Cc: , , , , , Cc: , X-Mailer: Subject: [9fans] WARNING: YOU WERE SENT A VIRUS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:15:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ******************************************************************************* ** Aztec Virus Warning ** ******************************************************************************* ** ** ** Our virus detection system on mail.aztec-net.com has intercepted a virus. ** ** ** ** This message is generated automatically, replies will not be Answered ** ** For more information use the information below or contact your Provider. ** ** ** ******************************************************************************* Message Summary: ---------------- Sender : info@dennysbuslines.ca Subject : "message returned to sender" Send Date : 09/19/2003,12:15:42 EST. Virus ID [Outlook 'MIME Header' Vulnerability] Action : Cleaned or Quarantined Message Details: (useful if sender info is not shown above) ---------------- Source host/server : dennysbuslines.ca Mail Server Queue Name : D2b880dbb01528ff4.SMD Message Header : Displayed Below Message Header: --------------- Received: from byovyxs [216.185.72.184] by phoenix.aztec-net.com (SMTPD32-7.07) id AB88DBB0152; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:15:04 -0400 FROM: "" TO: "network user" SUBJECT: message returned to sender Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="jnlayzzuyb" Message-Id: <200309191215623.SM00784@byovyxs> Virus Info: ---------- http://www.antivirus.com/vinfo/ ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 08:42:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 08:42:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16903 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 08:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16899 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 08:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 08:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1970A19ADD; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDBAC19A27; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CC5719A77; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F368D19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <23140fe058db1d7e62c93042758db558@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] uart Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've fiddled with the uart code to allow setting the FIFO trigger level via the "i" command to the ctl file. I also fixed an awful bug in the transmit side data buffering. updated to sources: /sys/src/9/port/devuart.c /sys/src/9/pc/uarti8250.c /sys/man/3/uart --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 12:11:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 12:11:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24280 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 12:11:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24276 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 12:11:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 12:11:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A260519AF4; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E10B519A6E; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5954419AE1; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfilter.pdx.uci.net (mailfilter.pdx.uci.net [216.104.72.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9757C19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Unicom Anti-Virus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030920031033.9757C19A6E@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] WARNING: YOU WERE SENT A VIRUS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) UNICOM's Anti-Virus software has reported that you were sent an E-mail from alhowe@uci.net containing the virus Exploit.IFrame.Gen. The E-mail containing the virus has been quarantined to prevent further damage. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 12:11:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 12:11:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 12:11:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24286 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 12:11:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 12:11:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 712D619B01; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AD8E19AF2; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:11:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F05E119AE6; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfilter2.pdx.uci.net (mailfilter02.pdx.uci.net [216.104.72.79]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E299B19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11033 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 03:08:51 -0000 Received: from mail.iceinternet.com (HELO iceinternet.com) (216.104.72.32) by mailfilter2.pdx.uci.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 03:08:51 -0000 Message-Id: <10309192006.AA81529131@iceinternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Postmaster" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Subject: [9fans] Undeliverable Mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:06:56 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) User mailbox exceeds allowed size: alhowe@uci.net Original message follows. Received: from mailfilter.pdx.uci.net [216.104.72.39] by iceinternet.com (SMTPD32-8.01) id A44D4D2100A8; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:06:53 -0700 From: Unicom Anti-Virus To: alhowe@uci.net Subject: WARNING: YOU MAY HAVE A VIRUS UNICOM's Anti-Virus software has reported that you sent an E-mail to 9fans@cse.psu.edu containing the virus Exploit.IFrame.Gen. The E-mail containing the virus has been quarantined to prevent further damage. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 12:25:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 12:25:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24709 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 12:25:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24705 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 12:25:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 12:25:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5B6F19B00; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2612D19A23; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81C2219AE1; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E453419A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] uart In-Reply-To: <23140fe058db1d7e62c93042758db558@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:24:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The fix I posted to /sys/src/9/port/devuart.c breaks proper draining of the output on close. I've undone the updates to sources until I get it right. Sorry about that. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 15:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 15:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30719 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 15:49:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30715 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 15:49:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 15:49:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3B9319AF2; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5961719AA4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:49:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B8E719AA4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F4A319A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by ns.0xfe.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0bYp-0002a3-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:49:39 +0900 From: Vester Thacker To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:49:32 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_KMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Just in case some folks haven't read about it, an article was written about a Plan9 exploit. The article can be found at http://phrack.unixchicks.com/ p62-0x09.txt I found it disheartening, but interesting nonetheless. Comments? -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 15:56:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 15:56:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30898 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 15:56:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30894 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 15:56:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 15:56:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7C0119AF8; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E02D019AAC; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:56:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC07D19AAC; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49BAA19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5db94a9eccdf9b8a171e87996c71c67a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:55:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) He exploited a buffer overrun in his own program. It would be more interesting if he exploited a buffer overrun in some system program, preferably one that listens to the network. But then, he'd still be none. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 16:01:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 16:01:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31007 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31003 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 16:01:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8494D19B00; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC1DD19AA4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7641A19AF4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA1BA19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 95637 invoked by uid 66); 20 Sep 2003 07:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 92850 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 64552 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smms9c7y.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:59:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, with a lot of help from the 9fans my Plan9 network is now up and running. I have a cpu/auth- and a fileserver and I can remote boot terminals. After booting the terminals they are using the fileserver as expected. I also play with drawterm. I can connect to the cpu/auth server, authenticate a user and login. But if I login with drawterm, the filesystem isn't mounted from the fileserver but from the cpu/auth server. How do I tell drawterm to work like the remote booted terminal? I also have s problem with =AB9fs dump=BB. This command gives me =ABmount: mount /n/dump: attach -- bad specifier=BB. 9fs batida works and I can also mount the dump with: srv -q il!batida mount /srv/il!batida /n/dump dump Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 16:10:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 16:10:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31196 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 16:10:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31192 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 16:10:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 16:10:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F79619B04; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3494119AE1; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CB7D19ADE; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDDC719AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver In-Reply-To: <86smms9c7y.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:08:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You can actually set up your cpu/auth server to boot from the file server directly rather than from its own local disk. Then drawterming in will show you the file server (and you won't have to maintain the local disk on the cpu server!). See plan9.ini(8) and boot(8) for the options. You want to boot from IL, and since you won't have anyone to set up your IP configuration you'll have to put that in too. (Something like bootargs=il!-g 192.168.5.1 ether /net/ether0 192.168.5.123 255.255.255.0 fs=192.168.5.234 if I remember correctly. The auth id for the file server needs to be the same as the auth id you're using on the cpu server in order for the bootstrap to work without having an auth server already. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 16:19:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 16:19:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31385 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 16:19:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31381 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 16:19:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 16:19:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D04A519B0D; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 262BD19B05; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0179E19AE1; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EF6819ADA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0c1n-0002fN-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:19:35 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030920071935.GA10246@ns.0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Subject: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:19:35 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Just in case some folks haven't read about it, an article was written about a Plan9 exploit. The article can be found at http://phrack.unixchicks.com/p62-0x09.txt I found it disheartening, but interesting nonetheless. Comments? -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 16:59:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 16:59:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32571 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 16:59:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32567 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 16:59:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 16:59:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3626D19AE1; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3197B19A65; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:59:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9FD419AD8; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 906FC19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46c56be2fca23401566d24a82fe5ce91@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030920071935.GA10246@ns.0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:43:02 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>I found it disheartening, but interesting nonetheless. as far as i could tell: - the only `buffer overflow' exploited was one in his own program - the technique used will work on any conventional architecture that implements C; - all he did was work out the details of Plan 9 system call conventions, rather painfully (he could just look at the mkfile) - he's learnt enough acid to peep at code but claims he can't find the editor - he seems to think that factotum remembering a password he's had to give it is equivalent to opening the door to everyone - the author seems aggressively ignorant (fairly typical of failing students in my experience) i'd say he's actually just trying to show off to his phellow phile-istines. i thought it was splendid: it's written in a breathless, manic style that rushes so quickly from each misconception to the next. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 17:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 17:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 639 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 17:24:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 17:24:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 17:24:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4453019A65; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82EF219A65; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E4ED19AD8; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6937A19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: Charles Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:07:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>listens to the network. But then, he'd still be none. n0ne, surely? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 19:19:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:19:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2809 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 19:19:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2805 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 19:19:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 19:19:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9A1719B0B; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C7B519A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B0E019ADE; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dmzms01.aramiska.net (ns2.aramiska.net [80.242.32.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C142519A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (ip-80-242-39-157.aramiska-arc.aramiska.net [80.242.39.157]) by dmzms01.aramiska.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21E1110465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:18:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (Postfix, from userid 90) id 174CB3E34; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:08:31 +0000 (UTC) From: postmaster@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030920010831.174CB3E34@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net> Subject: [9fans] Virus detected in email (from tony@rhclifting.com) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:08:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) V I R U S A L E R T The Aramiska Arc virusscanner has detected the I-Worm.Swen virus in an email to you from: tony@rhclifting.com The email has been deleted. Please contact the sender or your system administrator for more information. For your reference, here are the SMTP envelope originator and headers from your email: ------------------------- BEGIN HEADERS ----------------------------- Received: from okfuc (ip-192-168-1-111.internal.rhclifting.com [192.168.1.111]) by ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9420C263; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:08:24 +0000 (UTC) From: "Network Security Section" To: "Commercial User" SUBJECT: Last Network Critical Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="vzsatxqmiztdip" Message-Id: <20030920010824.9420C263@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:08:24 +0000 (UTC) -------------------------- END HEADERS ------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 19:20:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:20:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2829 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 19:20:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2825 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 19:20:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 19:20:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B975919B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73A2B19B00; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:20:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 629E219ADE; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 044C219A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:19:06 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:18:58 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, I can't create mail box by mail -c Permission bit of /mail/box of my system is term% ls -l /mail d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 upas upas 0 Jun 6 2002 /mail/box d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/faxoutqueue d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/faxqueue d-r-xr-xr-x M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/fs d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 upas upas 0 Jun 7 22:51 /mail/lib d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 17 2002 /mail/queue d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 arisawa upas 0 May 17 2002 /mail/ratify d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 Nov 17 2002 /mail/tmp The bit came from plan9.db term% grep mail plan9.db ... mail - 20000000775 upas upas 1019918807 0 mail/box - 20000000775 upas upas 1019918807 0 mail/box/glenda - 20000000775 glenda glenda 1019918807 0 ... How a user can create mail box under d-rwxrwxr-x ? I suspect the mode bit must be d-rwxrwxrwx Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 19:28:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:28:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2966 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 19:28:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2962 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 19:28:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 19:28:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6940919B26; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A65AC19B0E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:28:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 912C819A5E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dmzms01.aramiska.net (ns2.aramiska.net [80.242.32.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB7D61999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (ip-80-242-39-157.aramiska-arc.aramiska.net [80.242.39.157]) by dmzms01.aramiska.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F00D11045C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (Postfix, from userid 90) id 93F8B3F0E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:09:51 +0000 (UTC) From: postmaster@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20030920010951.93F8B3F0E@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net> Subject: [9fans] Virus detected in email (from tony@rhclifting.com) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:09:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) V I R U S A L E R T The Aramiska Arc virusscanner has detected the I-Worm.Swen virus in an email to you from: tony@rhclifting.com The email has been deleted. Please contact the sender or your system administrator for more information. For your reference, here are the SMTP envelope originator and headers from your email: ------------------------- BEGIN HEADERS ----------------------------- Received: from hlzah (ip-192-168-1-111.internal.rhclifting.com [192.168.1.111]) by ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 93C5821; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:09:44 +0000 (UTC) From: "MS Internet Delivery System" To: "Mail Client" SUBJECT: Error Message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="isltrbbghdzwhn" Message-Id: <20030920010944.93C5821@ip-10-2-35-140.arc.aramiska.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:09:44 +0000 (UTC) -------------------------- END HEADERS ------------------------------ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 19:43:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:43:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3201 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 19:43:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3197 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 19:43:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 19:43:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAB6B19B20; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E64519A1F; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B9C919A5E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (SIGBUS.nove.bg [212.50.27.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DADC199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (chervarium@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by SIGBUS.nove.bg (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8KAjFC9042212 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:45:18 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from chervarium@SIGBUS.nove.bg) Message-Id: <200309201045.h8KAjFC9042212@SIGBUS.nove.bg> From: Atanas Bachvaroff Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <20030920071935.GA10246@ns.0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-596516649-1064054720=:31233" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:45:11 +0300 (EEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --0-596516649-1064054720=:31233 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii On 20 Sep, Vester Thacker wrote: > Just in case some folks haven't read about it, an article was written > about a Plan9 exploit. The article can be found at > http://phrack.unixchicks.com/p62-0x09.txt > > I found it disheartening, but interesting nonetheless. Comments? > > -- Vester Thacker Blah! I've just read that crap at the url given. What I see is misconception and ignorance plus very, very, very nice "conclusions"... Just as expected, a kid from the crackbrained generation who read their grandiose-hack-the-world things but no further... Several more things come to my mind but these have no place in this mailing list. Greetings -- BEATVSHOMOQVIINVENITSAPIENTIAMETQVIAFFLVITPRVDENTIALIVRILVCIFERIVS --0-596516649-1064054720=:31233 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: vyUKoWBDSo/4KzRsPIhnznVxejiGqFSd iQA/AwUAP2wvu9BNHei75lHEEQKgWgCeLsQ9o9CfyaW2bp57QqQgGR2eWagAnj5P 76pbUg+z5m3wEQDUHZtHZQrc =NJ8p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0-596516649-1064054720=:31233-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 21:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 21:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5120 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 21:32:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5116 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 21:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 21:32:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AF9219B27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B9219B22; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:32:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9955A19AE1; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D07A019A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by ns.0xfe.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1A0gto-000084-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:31:40 +0900 From: Vester Thacker To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309202131.39582.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> Subject: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x0e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:31:39 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_KMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thanks to all whom replied earlier about the Phrack article. Since I am relatively new to Plan9, discerning the validity of the such claims was a little difficult. I'd much rather address the issue and ask the experts, than falsely speculate and come to the wrong conclusions. Thanks for clearing the air. -- Vester Thacker p.s. - I apologize to all for mistakenly sending my last post twice. I've been experiencing some long delays in receiving mail from 9fans lately. I've been reading the archives in the meantime to keep up. --Vester From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 22:51:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 22:51:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6084 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6080 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57E0B19B30; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E22019B24; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B9F219A81; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B914319A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <620e34c0efc29a59bae0648c104ddf18@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: matthias@mteege.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You don't, its just a cpu connection to a cpu server. Drawterm isn't an emulation of a plan 9 terminal, just an emulation of a plan 9 terminal at the end of a connection to a cpu server. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:27 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:24 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD57D19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50DAF19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7641A19AF4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA1BA19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 95637 invoked by uid 66); 20 Sep 2003 07:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 92850 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 64552 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smms9c7y.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:59:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, with a lot of help from the 9fans my Plan9 network is now up and running. I have a cpu/auth- and a fileserver and I can remote boot terminals. After booting the terminals they are using the fileserver as expected. I also play with drawterm. I can connect to the cpu/auth server, authenticate a user and login. But if I login with drawterm, the filesystem isn't mounted from the fileserver but from the cpu/auth server. How do I tell drawterm to work like the remote booted terminal? I also have s problem with =AB9fs dump=BB. This command gives me =ABmount: mount /n/dump: attach -- bad specifier=BB. 9fs batida works and I can also mount the dump with: srv -q il!batida mount /srv/il!batida /n/dump dump Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 23:05:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 23:05:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6368 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 23:05:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6364 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 23:05:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 23:05:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F314B19B12; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24CC919B13; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E3C119B2C; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51B4519B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9bc4a4acd9a62f74221edf7a484d062d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cxxgvxzjmgytaxzufwvirskhlt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:04:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cxxgvxzjmgytaxzufwvirskhlt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We protect /mail/box 777. It is a hole, i.e., someone can remove your mail directory should it ever be empty, though that's not ever supposed to be the case. Also, they can rename your mail box though they can't remove it and replace it with a new one. I should think of something better. --upas-cxxgvxzjmgytaxzufwvirskhlt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 06:20:20 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 06:20:18 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2431B19B1A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03DD7199E4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:20:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 629E219ADE; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 044C219A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 19:19:06 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:18:58 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, I can't create mail box by mail -c Permission bit of /mail/box of my system is term% ls -l /mail d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 upas upas 0 Jun 6 2002 /mail/box d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/faxoutqueue d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/faxqueue d-r-xr-xr-x M 8 upas upas 0 May 2 2002 /mail/fs d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 upas upas 0 Jun 7 22:51 /mail/lib d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 May 17 2002 /mail/queue d-rwxrwxr-x M 8 arisawa upas 0 May 17 2002 /mail/ratify d-rwxrwxrwx M 8 upas upas 0 Nov 17 2002 /mail/tmp The bit came from plan9.db term% grep mail plan9.db ... mail - 20000000775 upas upas 1019918807 0 mail/box - 20000000775 upas upas 1019918807 0 mail/box/glenda - 20000000775 glenda glenda 1019918807 0 ... How a user can create mail box under d-rwxrwxr-x ? I suspect the mode bit must be d-rwxrwxrwx Kenji Arisawa --upas-cxxgvxzjmgytaxzufwvirskhlt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 23:08:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 23:08:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6426 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 23:08:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6422 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 23:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 23:08:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19ACF19B4C; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90C1219B1D; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B8419B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CF8619B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver In-Reply-To: <620e34c0efc29a59bae0648c104ddf18@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could do what rsc suggested, but if you want your auth server on a stand alone machine and it is also the cpu server, you could have whatever name space you want when you cpu into the cpu server just by using the -n argument on aux/listen. --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 09:51:31 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 09:51:28 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D6F419A33; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7C7619AAA; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B9F219A81; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B914319A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <620e34c0efc29a59bae0648c104ddf18@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: matthias@mteege.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You don't, its just a cpu connection to a cpu server. Drawterm isn't an emulation of a plan 9 terminal, just an emulation of a plan 9 terminal at the end of a connection to a cpu server. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:27 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:24 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD57D19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50DAF19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7641A19AF4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA1BA19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 95637 invoked by uid 66); 20 Sep 2003 07:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 92850 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 64552 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smms9c7y.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:59:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, with a lot of help from the 9fans my Plan9 network is now up and running. I have a cpu/auth- and a fileserver and I can remote boot terminals. After booting the terminals they are using the fileserver as expected. I also play with drawterm. I can connect to the cpu/auth server, authenticate a user and login. But if I login with drawterm, the filesystem isn't mounted from the fileserver but from the cpu/auth server. How do I tell drawterm to work like the remote booted terminal? I also have s problem with =AB9fs dump=BB. This command gives me =ABmount: mount /n/dump: attach -- bad specifier=BB. 9fs batida works and I can also mount the dump with: srv -q il!batida mount /srv/il!batida /n/dump dump Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr-- --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 23:16:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 23:16:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6555 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 23:16:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6551 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 23:16:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 23:16:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B7C819B52; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B714A19B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D6D819B2C; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 917A519B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49cc09c4a0e723a3cac057a2809f5ae9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qcjurfgiilfwsnjpchmfouszga" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:15:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qcjurfgiilfwsnjpchmfouszga Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Argh! I know I'm crazy when I continually contradict my own email messages. cpu does its own newns so giving a -n namespace to aux/listen won't work. However, you could do the appropriate binds in the cpu case of your profile to see whatever namespace you'ld like: switch($service){ case terminal ... case cpu bind -a /mnt/term/mnt/wsys /dev bind /mnt/term/dev/cons /dev/cons bind /mnt/term/dev/consctl /dev/consctl bind -a /mnt/term/dev /dev srv fileserver mount /srv/fileserver /n/fileserver bind /n/fileserver/usr /usr bind /n/fileserver/sys /sys ... } None of this will result in a direct connection from the machine you run drawterm on to the fileserver. It'll always be filtered through cpu. --upas-qcjurfgiilfwsnjpchmfouszga Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 10:08:26 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 10:08:23 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6738019B13; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83EA219B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B8419B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CF8619B1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver In-Reply-To: <620e34c0efc29a59bae0648c104ddf18@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:07:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could do what rsc suggested, but if you want your auth server on a stand alone machine and it is also the cpu server, you could have whatever name space you want when you cpu into the cpu server just by using the -n argument on aux/listen. --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 09:51:31 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 09:51:28 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D6F419A33; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7C7619AAA; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B9F219A81; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B914319A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <620e34c0efc29a59bae0648c104ddf18@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: matthias@mteege.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:50:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You don't, its just a cpu connection to a cpu server. Drawterm isn't an emulation of a plan 9 terminal, just an emulation of a plan 9 terminal at the end of a connection to a cpu server. --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:27 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 03:01:24 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD57D19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50DAF19A27; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7641A19AF4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA1BA19ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 95637 invoked by uid 66); 20 Sep 2003 07:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 92850 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 64552 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Sep 2003 06:59:57 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smms9c7y.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Drawterm and fileserver Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:59:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, with a lot of help from the 9fans my Plan9 network is now up and running. I have a cpu/auth- and a fileserver and I can remote boot terminals. After booting the terminals they are using the fileserver as expected. I also play with drawterm. I can connect to the cpu/auth server, authenticate a user and login. But if I login with drawterm, the filesystem isn't mounted from the fileserver but from the cpu/auth server. How do I tell drawterm to work like the remote booted terminal? I also have s problem with =AB9fs dump=BB. This command gives me =ABmount: mount /n/dump: attach -- bad specifier=BB. 9fs batida works and I can also mount the dump with: srv -q il!batida mount /srv/il!batida /n/dump dump Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-smrekcuydbrjwxxzzdqsffwkhr-- --upas-ppitnqlygjoopihqisfbzjlhfa-- --upas-qcjurfgiilfwsnjpchmfouszga-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 20 23:48:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 20 23:48:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7210 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Sep 2003 23:48:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7206 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 23:48:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 23:48:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5AA8E19B55; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 923C8199E4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FA67199FE; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30E8A19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <426f707cb128b29b440a1762f5efd0d2@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:47:05 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I can't create mail box by > mail -c this is a problem that needs to be addressed in Plan 9. currently you have two solutions: - chmod 777 /mail/box and let the user create their mailbox when they run /sys/lib/newuser - add your administrator user to the upas group the second one creates a problem because with fossil you won't be able to chmod -u to the user you've just created, unless you boot in allow mode (open AW) the first solution is the one i currently use on my box, but it creates an even bigger problem -- i _must_ create the mail box as soon as i add the user, otherwise anybody can create a pipeto file that serves as a spam bouncer! so currently to add a new user i need to: - create the user in fossil - add the user's password - create the user's secstore password - login as the user and run /sys/lib/newuser which creates the mailbox (i used to wstat /mail/box to 777 on fossil's console just for this part, but gave up and left it like that) it's a bit of an overkill, isn't it? :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 00:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 00:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7503 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 00:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7499 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 00:01:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 00:01:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 842CF19B61; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6483819B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36AC119B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE40419A07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2307bd1d59d40a3d69dcd0c8f443bd17@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <426f707cb128b29b440a1762f5efd0d2@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:00:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) you could fsys main create /mail/box/andrey andrey andrey d775 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 00:36:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 00:36:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8339 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 00:36:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8335 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 00:36:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 00:36:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67CA419B63; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE16719B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:36:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE1AB19B53; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC8C119B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.arcor.net (dsl-213-023-023-168.arcor-ip.net [213.23.23.168]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85DEFA8459 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:35:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: by localhost.arcor.net (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 24B832D044; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:35:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Message-ID: <20030920153514.GA25835@folly> References: <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> <5db94a9eccdf9b8a171e87996c71c67a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5db94a9eccdf9b8a171e87996c71c67a@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:35:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) AFAIK, phrack 62 is fake, a hoax. On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:55:37AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > He exploited a buffer overrun in his own program. > It would be more interesting if he exploited a buffer > overrun in some system program, preferably one that > listens to the network. But then, he'd still be none. > > Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 00:41:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 00:41:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8406 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 00:41:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8402 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 00:41:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 00:41:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 324C119B70; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7D4919B53; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EC9819B5A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C17AC19B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3fcbe37d6708ae0b034b1eed13d72d28@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <2307bd1d59d40a3d69dcd0c8f443bd17@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:40:21 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > you could fsys main create /mail/box/andrey andrey andrey d775 hadn't thought of that... presumably it needs to be: : create /mail/box/andrey andrey upas d775 right? then mail -c complains that it can't chmod 722 /mail/box/andrey/mbox, even though i can do it by hand. strange. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 00:41:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 00:41:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8413 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 00:41:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8409 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 00:41:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 00:41:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C0AB19B68; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EF1019B68; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:41:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E408319B5B; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26BE419B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <2307bd1d59d40a3d69dcd0c8f443bd17@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:40:48 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) make that: > : create /active/mail/box/andrey andrey upas d775 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 01:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 01:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9217 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 01:21:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9212 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 01:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 01:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F342C199F0; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16E5D19A19; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BD8B19B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 945E5199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e96e8fe011e73bcded96b967190b6c5@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3fcbe37d6708ae0b034b1eed13d72d28@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:20:18 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > then mail -c complains that it can't chmod 722 /mail/box/andrey/mbox, group: upas; mode: 720... that should be the right one, no? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 01:24:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 01:24:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9293 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 01:24:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9289 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 01:24:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 01:24:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F0F619B7F; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A87AA19B5A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2804D19B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D89B19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8KGNap60144; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:23:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <5ac5482c2c100443186c9be2d17c2239@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <1e96e8fe011e73bcded96b967190b6c5@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:23:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > group: upas; mode: 720... that should be the right one, no? the group is not relevant. nothing runs in group upas. it is important that the world permissions include x so that none can open your mailbox to append to it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:15:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:15:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10409 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:15:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10405 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:15:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:15:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BDC119B55; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 002A219B08; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:15:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 790E719B08; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA7C319AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHE4j24603 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201714.h8KHE4j24603@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:49:32 +0900." <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Wow; I haven't laughed _that_ hard in a *long* time. I especially like the last few paragraphs, and the part about him flunking his high-school english class. In terms of a technical reaction, the first thing that strikes me is: We have 51 system calls now? Wow; we've porked up. How many of those are for compatability with the 3rd Edition? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:18:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:18:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10484 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:18:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10480 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:18:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:18:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E7F3199F0; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C61FD19B08; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE49519B08; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DA90199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00739 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHH6j24641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201717.h8KHH6j24641@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:43:02 BST." <46c56be2fca23401566d24a82fe5ce91@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:17:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I think phrack sites should attach slashdot-style discussion software to articles. After wading through endless messages that say nothing more than ``woot! First! lol'', Charles could post his last comment, which gave me quite a chuckle. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10552 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:22:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10548 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:22:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:22:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F020E19B82; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55A4819999; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B386519B7F; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 132F219B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01371 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHLAj24693 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201721.h8KHLAj24693@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:04:02 EDT." <9bc4a4acd9a62f74221edf7a484d062d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:21:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Simply augment newuser on the fileserver console to create /mail/box/whomever in addition to /usr/whomever. I have a script I run to create the mailbox that I run whenever I create a new user. It echo's the fs(8) commands and I read them in my C session. It works reasonably well. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:23:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:23:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10565 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:23:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10561 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:23:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:23:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F354919BAA; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E692F1998C; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D58F719B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED4271998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8KHMlp64067; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200309201714.h8KHE4j24603@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,UPPERCASE_25_50,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i count 36 essential system calls, up from 35 in 2e. basically fd2path is the only change. 4e essential: #define BIND 2 #define CHDIR 3 #define CLOSE 4 #define DUP 5 #define ALARM 6 #define EXEC 7 #define EXITS 8 #define FAUTH 10 #define SEGBRK 12 #define OPEN 14 #define SLEEP 17 #define RFORK 19 #define PIPE 21 #define CREATE 22 #define FD2PATH 23 #define BRK_ 24 #define REMOVE 25 #define NOTIFY 28 #define NOTED 29 #define SEGATTACH 30 #define SEGDETACH 31 #define SEGFREE 32 #define SEGFLUSH 33 #define RENDEZVOUS 34 #define UNMOUNT 35 #define SEEK 39 #define FVERSION 40 #define ERRSTR 41 #define STAT 42 #define FSTAT 43 #define WSTAT 44 #define FWSTAT 45 #define MOUNT 46 #define AWAIT 47 #define PREAD 50 #define PWRITE 51 2e essential: #define ERRSTR 1 #define BIND 2 #define CHDIR 3 #define CLOSE 4 #define DUP 5 #define ALARM 6 #define EXEC 7 #define EXITS 8 #define FSESSION 9 #define FAUTH 10 #define FSTAT 11 #define SEGBRK 12 #define MOUNT 13 #define OPEN 14 #define READ 15 #define SEEK 16 #define SLEEP 17 #define STAT 18 #define RFORK 19 #define WRITE 20 #define PIPE 21 #define CREATE 22 #define BRK_ 24 #define REMOVE 25 #define WSTAT 26 #define FWSTAT 27 #define NOTIFY 28 #define NOTED 29 #define SEGATTACH 30 #define SEGDETACH 31 #define SEGFREE 32 #define SEGFLUSH 33 #define RENDEZVOUS 34 #define UNMOUNT 35 #define WAIT 36 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:40:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:40:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10804 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10800 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:40:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:40:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 338BC19B53; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA17319B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:40:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C48119AD8; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B334E199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from waakzaamheid (none@glenda.corp.google.com [10.3.18.97]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8KHdDRM024525 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:39:17 -0700 Message-ID: <4ea2d0cc1b5225626c699db469bef952@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Rob 'Commander' Pike" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] GoogleJam Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:39:13 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Announcing the second google programming contest: http://www.google.com/codejam -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:50:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:50:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11042 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11038 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:50:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9BE9B19B7A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F248199F0; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:50:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70E9F19B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C085E199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05984 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHnuj24873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201749.h8KHnuj24873@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:47 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And presumably the rest are for binary compatibility with older (pre-4e) systems? Hmm.... That's a lot of compatibility to be carrying around. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:54:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:54:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11167 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:54:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11163 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:54:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3516119B94; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE3F019B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6093319B52; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE2EA199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C70F24FF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6850027; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:29 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Message-ID: <20030920175329.GA6811@mero.morphisms.net> References: <200309201749.h8KHnuj24873@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309201749.h8KHnuj24873@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 01:49:56PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > And presumably the rest are for binary compatibility with older (pre-4e) > systems? Hmm.... That's a lot of compatibility to be carrying around. How else are you going to run mpm? ;-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:55:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:55:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11186 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11182 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:55:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A802719BDB; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE6BE19B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:55:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5BE019B7A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CA38199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06719 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHsij24920 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201754.h8KHsij24920@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GoogleJam In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:39:13 PDT." <4ea2d0cc1b5225626c699db469bef952@google.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:54:44 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is it intentional that `codejam' sort of rhymes with `toejam'? Also, is 3rd prize really $3500, or $2500? It would appear as though price amounts go down by half, but 3rd price is out of sequence. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 02:58:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 02:58:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11321 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 02:58:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11317 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 02:58:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 02:58:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8C2119BAA; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFDD719B4C; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F8EE19B12; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB96F199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07119 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHv3j24962 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201757.h8KHv3j24962@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:53:29 EDT." <20030920175329.GA6811@mero.morphisms.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Funny you should mention that... it's exactly what I was thinking of in terms of NOT eliminating compatibility. I suppose the obvious answer would be to just recompile it with g++ or otherwise release it (mpm). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 03:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 03:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11448 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 03:02:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11444 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3B0A19BAA; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E131D19B22; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:02:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D66D19B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A333D199D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8KI1lp66589; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:01:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <34b8becbb30946e8fd4397ce2952e9e6@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200309201757.h8KHv3j24962@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:01:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Funny you should mention that... it's exactly what I was thinking of > in terms of NOT eliminating compatibility. I suppose the obvious answer > would be to just recompile it with g++ or otherwise release it (mpm). it's not just mpm. i can run almost every binary that has ever been compiled on plan 9 (for my current architecture). that's useful occasionally, and it's 100 lines of code to implement. if you don't want to carry it around, you could chop it out of your copy, but there are much bigger things you could drop instead. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 03:35:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 03:35:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12273 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 03:35:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12269 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 03:35:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 03:35:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1449619B99; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2726319B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:35:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B79D319B75; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 04C2F19B65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-47-56.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.47.56 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 18:34:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3F6CAB8B.3040802@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GoogleJam References: <4ea2d0cc1b5225626c699db469bef952@google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:33:31 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >Announcing the second google programming contest: > Bleh, I was going to enter before I saw that C wasn't an accepted programming language. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Debug period. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 03:38:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 03:38:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12337 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 03:38:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12333 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 03:38:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 03:38:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 825F719BD6; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1C1C19B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12F3819B30; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A26D19AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KIbfj25158 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201837.h8KIbfj25158@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:01:46 EDT." <34b8becbb30946e8fd4397ce2952e9e6@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it's not just mpm. i can run almost every binary that has > ever been compiled on plan 9 (for my current architecture). > that's useful occasionally, and it's 100 lines of code to implement. > if you don't want to carry it around, you could chop it out > of your copy, but there are much bigger things you could drop > instead. Oh, I don't know; it depends on what the compatibility routines do. If they just marshall arguments around (for instance, dealing with the widening of types and the like), that's one thing. On the other hand, if they represent entirely different implementations of common system calls, such as in cases where semantics have changed and some amount of compatibility with the old semantics was desired, that's another. If we find the system call table filling up with the latter, I'd say it's time to start thinking about recompiling things that are usefully brought forward and chopping out the compatibility stuff. Yes, there are bigger fish to fry, but if you can kill this one while it's still a tadpole, it seems like a good idea. That said, I'd note that some of the more interesting programs in, e.g., 2nd edition are affected not by the lack or change in system calls, but by fundamental changes in subsystems (ie, the introduction of /dev/draw as a replacement for /dev/bitblt and friends, which affects a number of things). - Dan C. (Ps- I really do think it would be nice to get mpm out and give people the opportunity to either rewrite it or recompile it with g++.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 03:40:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 03:40:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12357 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 03:40:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12353 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 03:40:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 03:40:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAA4C19BDC; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33A4019B8A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9393F19B8A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6EEF19B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8KIdhp69225; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: <4845cc59d5c55feed1065ef7661ec2db@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <200309201837.h8KIbfj25158@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > (Ps- I really do think it would be nice to get mpm out and give people > the opportunity to either rewrite it or recompile it with g++.) didn't rob post it a few years ago? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 03:46:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 03:46:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12500 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 03:46:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12496 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 03:46:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 03:46:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6754F19BDB; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2984319B85; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 466A519B4E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B1EF19AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8KIivp69517; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:44:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <4845cc59d5c55feed1065ef7661ec2db@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] mpm again Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:44:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > didn't rob post it a few years ago? yes, yes he did. february 2002. /n/sources/extra/mpm.bundle has what he posted. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 04:08:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 04:08:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13046 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 04:08:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13042 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 04:08:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 04:08:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C52E519BDC; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1106C19B3B; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9328519B53; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB4F619AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6337D24FF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1A97327; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:07:18 -0400 From: "William K. Josephson" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Message-ID: <20030920190718.GA8070@mero.morphisms.net> References: <34b8becbb30946e8fd4397ce2952e9e6@plan9.bell-labs.com> <200309201837.h8KIbfj25158@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309201837.h8KIbfj25158@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:37:41PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > (Ps- I really do think it would be nice to get mpm out and give people > the opportunity to either rewrite it or recompile it with g++.) Rob has posted the source before; I use it under Unix with some frequency, in fact. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 05:11:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 05:11:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14562 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 05:11:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14558 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 05:11:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 05:11:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 814AE19BDB; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7037D19B67; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 788CC19B9A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9072319B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a565a8fea529ea357e534c0189c2af4@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: <200309201714.h8KHE4j24603@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rpbfuqraligwnzmezveqtzlgqo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:10:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rpbfuqraligwnzmezveqtzlgqo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are actually on 48. 10 are there for backward compatibilit. /sys/src/libc/9syscall/sys.h Not much that wasn't there 3rd edition. I'm looking at adding a passfd thought my first attempt wasn't pretty. Actually passfd was easy but making it work across systems was a bit strained. I'm working on that. --upas-rpbfuqraligwnzmezveqtzlgqo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 13:15:31 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 13:15:28 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A569119B3E; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8123919AD8; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 790E719B08; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA7C319AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHE4j24603 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201714.h8KHE4j24603@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:49:32 +0900." <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Wow; I haven't laughed _that_ hard in a *long* time. I especially like the last few paragraphs, and the part about him flunking his high-school english class. In terms of a technical reaction, the first thing that strikes me is: We have 51 system calls now? Wow; we've porked up. How many of those are for compatability with the 3rd Edition? - Dan C. --upas-rpbfuqraligwnzmezveqtzlgqo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 05:13:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 05:13:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14650 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 05:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14646 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 05:13:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 05:13:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94A5119BE4; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8861C19B98; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F7BF19B98; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C45E819B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <493a68136ac9c97f514a93649e20ecad@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: <200309201749.h8KHnuj24873@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-csyifynjsuxxtzxnplliavkqwe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:12:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-csyifynjsuxxtzxnplliavkqwe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not much code, just syscall space. We can probably nuke most of them. --upas-csyifynjsuxxtzxnplliavkqwe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 13:50:29 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Sep 20 13:50:27 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB1AA19B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18C9D199D9; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:50:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70E9F19B10; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C085E199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05984 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8KHnuj24873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309201749.h8KHnuj24873@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:22:47 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:49:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And presumably the rest are for binary compatibility with older (pre-4e) systems? Hmm.... That's a lot of compatibility to be carrying around. - Dan C. --upas-csyifynjsuxxtzxnplliavkqwe-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 11:05:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 11:05:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21722 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 11:05:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21718 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 11:05:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 11:05:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 781F019B28; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A7D019AF7; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E0819AF7; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAAD919A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Sep 2003 04:03:19 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8L24ZfE012019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:04:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id DAA14482 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 03:04:31 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GoogleJam Message-ID: <20030921030430.H11650@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <4ea2d0cc1b5225626c699db469bef952@google.com> <3F6CAB8B.3040802@ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3F6CAB8B.3040802@ameritech.net>; from dbailey27@ameritech.net on Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:33:31PM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 03:04:31 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:33:31PM -0500, northern snowfall wrote: > > > > > >Announcing the second google programming contest: > > > Bleh, I was going to enter before I saw that C wasn't an > accepted programming language. The C like subset of C++ ? DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 17:21:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 17:21:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29535 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 17:21:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29531 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 17:21:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 17:21:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8485019B5C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DEC219B49; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9960819B4D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 86B4C19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14449 invoked by uid 66); 21 Sep 2003 08:21:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 1295 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 77749 invoked by uid 1001); 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863ceqr1w6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] CPU/auth server panic at boot Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:17:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, yesterday I changed my setup in that way, that the cpu/auth server bootes from the fileserver. The cpu/auth server get its kernel from a dhcp/tftp server which runs under FreeBSD. Yesterday it works, today it is broken. ;-) I changed the timezone (cp GMT local) and try to reboot the cpu/auth server. The server download the kernel and ask for the root location. I set the bootargs in plan9.ini so I only hit enter. After that the boot process died with the following message: auth_proxy rpc write: coonection refused trying mount anyways boot mount /: attach -- unknown user failed auth panic boot process died unknown For me It looks like, that the server can't authenticate because there is no auth server. The chicken egg problem. What is the "workaround"? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 21:33:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 21:33:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2467 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 21:33:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2463 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 21:33:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 21:33:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DB5D19ACB; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C26E719A88; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:33:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C98C1199B7; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AC0A199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 21:32:25 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5ac5482c2c100443186c9be2d17c2239@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:32:19 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, Thanks all. Especially sharpshooting > they can rename your mail box by David Presotto was helpful to me. My conclusion is that permission bits of /mail/box must be 775 and we should create /mail/box/$user using fs console. I think it is convenient if /mail/box/$user is automatic created at the time when /usr/$user is created. And I have a naive question: In a directory of permission 777, everyone can delete or rename anyone's file or directory(if empty in case deletion). Is this necessary or sound property? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 22:30:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 22:30:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3635 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 22:30:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3631 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 22:30:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 22:30:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADBEB19AE4; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBF3919AC4; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:30:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED58019AD4; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6636719AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <77039d6c59c342f67caf5e2532653730@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) There's nothing wrong with having directories anyone can do anything in. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 22:36:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 22:36:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3793 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 22:36:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3789 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 22:36:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 22:36:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0DD919B76; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A42B19B16; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:36:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB85B19B16; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DABE919A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22a421f99ba944b7e6b3bcd308cef27b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] CPU/auth server panic at boot In-Reply-To: <863ceqr1w6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ishtniyfbkmvyypxjazxxnnuus" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:35:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ishtniyfbkmvyypxjazxxnnuus Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If the cpu server and the file server use the same authid, authdom, and password, you've solved the huhn/egg problem. I don't understand how it could work one day and not the next. --upas-ishtniyfbkmvyypxjazxxnnuus Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 04:21:37 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 04:21:34 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B3AE19B4D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA3AD19AE9; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:21:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9960819B4D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 86B4C19AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14449 invoked by uid 66); 21 Sep 2003 08:21:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 1295 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 77749 invoked by uid 1001); 21 Sep 2003 08:17:46 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863ceqr1w6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] CPU/auth server panic at boot Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:17:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, yesterday I changed my setup in that way, that the cpu/auth server bootes from the fileserver. The cpu/auth server get its kernel from a dhcp/tftp server which runs under FreeBSD. Yesterday it works, today it is broken. ;-) I changed the timezone (cp GMT local) and try to reboot the cpu/auth server. The server download the kernel and ask for the root location. I set the bootargs in plan9.ini so I only hit enter. After that the boot process died with the following message: auth_proxy rpc write: coonection refused trying mount anyways boot mount /: attach -- unknown user failed auth panic boot process died unknown For me It looks like, that the server can't authenticate because there is no auth server. The chicken egg problem. What is the "workaround"? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-ishtniyfbkmvyypxjazxxnnuus-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 21 23:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 21 23:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4616 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Sep 2003 23:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4612 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 23:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 23:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E11D419AB3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EE6019A0D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7612519A72; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7090519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19440 invoked by uid 66); 21 Sep 2003 14:21:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 3422 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 14:17:48 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 14:17:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 77671 invoked by uid 1001); 21 Sep 2003 14:17:48 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] CPU/auth server panic at boot References: <22a421f99ba944b7e6b3bcd308cef27b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <22a421f99ba944b7e6b3bcd308cef27b@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:35:10 -0400") Message-ID: <86pthup6nn.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:17:48 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > I don't understand how it could work one day and not the next. Playing without understanding. Try and error and one passwd to much. Now it works and I love it. Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 00:17:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 00:17:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5552 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 00:17:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5548 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 00:17:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:17:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83B6819B3B; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4163819A8E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:17:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32A6A19A8E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A231E19A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 41861 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2003 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from yaren by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8LFGsn272754; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:16:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <8b2f9ac4add9fd0ada953b3e225799c2@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:16:53 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "On Sun Sep 21 21:33:30 JST 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote:" > I think it is convenient if /mail/box/$user is automatic created > at the time when /usr/$user is created. I'm afraid to contradict you, but /mail and /usr is not necessarily on the same file system. And more, this should be relevant to the cron directory too. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 00:47:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 00:47:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6018 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 00:47:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6014 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 00:47:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:47:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BBEE19B52; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9D1419A84; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:47:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C5E719B0C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58CED19A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8LFqqi00672; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:52:52 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <8b2f9ac4add9fd0ada953b3e225799c2@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:52:52 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, YAMANASHI Takeshi wrote: > "On Sun Sep 21 21:33:30 JST 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote:" > > I think it is convenient if /mail/box/$user is automatic created > > at the time when /usr/$user is created. > > I'm afraid to contradict you, but /mail and /usr is not > necessarily on the same file system. And more, this should > be relevant to the cron directory too. Perhaps, but that is clearly the long way around the bend. The reasonable appreoach is exactly what Yamanashi Takeshi wrote, If you're going to create users then mount all the relevant namespaces and do it at one time - and then test it. That way you don't get trouble calls later on down the road. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 00:50:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 00:50:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6050 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 00:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6046 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 00:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:50:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6C1719B83; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C18319A84; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:50:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8CD319B0C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CAE719A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8LFtnT00706 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:55:49 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <77039d6c59c342f67caf5e2532653730@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:55:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > There's nothing wrong with having directories anyone can do anything in. Depends on context which is the real answer to the question. If you want anyone to be able to do anything to a particular branch that's cool, use 777. For most everything else it's a problem so you reduce permissions. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 00:52:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 00:52:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6091 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 00:52:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6087 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 00:52:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:52:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 62B0319B8C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4898719A0D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:52:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8697E19B52; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75EE119A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8LFv7R00714; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:57:07 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: permission bit of /mail/box (type correction) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:57:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > The reasonable appreoach is exactly what Yamanashi Takeshi wrote, If ^ not -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 06:44:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 06:44:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11324 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 06:44:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11320 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 06:44:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 06:44:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E52319B73; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C12119B3C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D244419B1F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7BE3199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ad1e12d7a51c44a1f173c8e88ba7c58@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] support for more dictionary files Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:43:42 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've added support for dictd (http://www.dict.org) files to dict(7). There is a large amount of small dictionary files for many european languages available too. They are too small and incomplete in their current form, however more complete entries are floating on the net, converted to dictd format from various other electronic sources (example of that is the bulgarian dictionary there). I've provided information on how to convert dictd files to be used with a dict(7) which is patched to understand these flat files. all required information is at: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/dict/ The code also fixes a small bug with mkfile in /sys/src/cmd/dict which leaves a dangling mkindex after a 'mk clean', which is then distributed through sources.cs... The file right now is compiled for MIPS :) Russ, the changes to the dict source are non-intrusive. If there's no objection can you include them to the default dict from Bell Labs? I will take care with the distribution of the actual dictionaries that I support (bg/en and en/bg). The other dictionaries are not (and need not be) included for now -- until somebody finds a relatively complete entry for their language of choice :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 06:51:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 06:51:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11391 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 06:51:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11387 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 06:51:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 06:51:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D0B619A0D; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A942719B3C; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:51:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF6019B52; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D34919B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8LLoej01186 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309212150.h8LLoej01186@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:55 EDT." <77039d6c59c342f67caf5e2532653730@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There's nothing wrong with having directories anyone can do anything in. With qualifiers. It depends on who's doing those things. Or, perhaps more importantly, how much you trust them. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 07:01:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 07:01:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11636 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 07:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11632 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 07:01:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 07:01:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA00619B8F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11EA919A91; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8D0919B7B; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A30419A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8LM0Sj01232 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309212200.h8LM0Sj01232@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:16:53 +0900." <8b2f9ac4add9fd0ada953b3e225799c2@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:00:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm afraid to contradict you, but /mail and /usr is not > necessarily on the same file system. And more, this should > be relevant to the cron directory too. Good point, but I'd respectfully point out that in that case, it wouldn't really matter. In maybe the most common case, /mail and /usr are on the same filesystem, so creating them at the same time wouldn't hurt anything and might help some. Perhaps a good solution would be to make the newuser command somewhat scriptable, so it could create directories and the like on the appropriate filesystems all at once. Or maybe add a small script function or macro facility to the command interpreter on the filesystem console. But then, we're getting pretty close to something like a real shell. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 09:07:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 09:07:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15031 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 09:07:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15027 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 09:07:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 09:07:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0855019B93; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E31819B96; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:07:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D627219B91; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 41C7819A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 82307 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 00:06:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:06:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 00:06:20 -0000 Received: from yaren by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8M06Jn349048; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:06:19 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:06:18 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "On Mon Sep 22 07:01:30 JST 2003, cross@math.psu.edu wrote:" > In maybe the most common case, /mail and /usr are on the > same filesystem, so creating them at the same time wouldn't hurt anything > and might help some. OKay. I (alone it seems :) am not comfortable with the situation that /mail sits on fossil and some sensitive mail can remain on the venti forever after a snapshot. By the way, is there a way to delete all instances of a file on venti completely? > Or maybe add a small script > function or macro facility to the command interpreter on the filesystem > But then, we're getting pretty close to something like a real > shell. Yes, looks like a shell. I would like to leave the job to the existing shell 'rc' rather than complicating kfscmd and fossilcons. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 09:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 09:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16352 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16348 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D9F319B9F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 917C619B92; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:36:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C52419B93; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBA9119B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17533 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8M0Z8j01783 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:06:18 +0900." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > OKay. I (alone it seems :) am not comfortable with the > situation that /mail sits on fossil and some sensitive > mail can remain on the venti forever after a snapshot. I kind of like the idea that I can get my mail back after I delete it, but I don't have much of a sensitive nature sitting in my mailbox, as a general rule. I guess I'm just not that interesting of a person. :-) > By the way, is there a way to delete all instances of > a file on venti completely? Good question. There was not with the old fileserver, but I remember thinking it might be a good thing for a pseudo-worm at different points in time. I suppose, with venti, the idea is sort of moot; I think of venti as an associative store, so data names its address anyway. If one treats venti as a black box, just knowing where the data is on disk implies that you already have it. Of course, in practice, it's not quite so simple, since the address space of venti hugely outstraps the size of any storage device, and we have indexes that match up block signatures to actual addresses. I suppose the idea of a tool to delete certain (signature,address) pairs from the index wouldn't be bad. Making it delete all such pairs associated with a file (perhaps scrubbing the reclaimed blocks) seems like it should be easy, and would solve the problem nicely. > > Or maybe add a small script > > function or macro facility to the command interpreter on the filesystem > > But then, we're getting pretty close to something like a real > > shell. > > Yes, looks like a shell. I would like to leave the job to > the existing shell 'rc' rather than complicating kfscmd > and fossilcons. Yeah. Maybe fossilcons could be replaced by an rc in a sandbox with nothing but fossil `commands' and scripts in it. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 09:38:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 09:38:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16444 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 09:38:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16440 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 09:38:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 09:38:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87A4019BAE; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6925E19B93; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:38:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D2CA19B93; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D455019B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8M0hJV04922; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:43:20 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:43:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > OKay. I (alone it seems :) am not comfortable with the > > situation that /mail sits on fossil and some sensitive > > mail can remain on the venti forever after a snapshot. > > I kind of like the idea that I can get my mail back after I delete it, > but I don't have much of a sensitive nature sitting in my mailbox, as > a general rule. I guess I'm just not that interesting of a person. :-) Encrypt the mailbox. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 10:34:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 10:34:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19622 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 10:34:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19616 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:34:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E444719B9E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A53F819B8F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 103C319B93; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCBBE19B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372ffdd9683c9edc28fcec23db9d138b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:34:30 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > OKay. I (alone it seems :) am not comfortable with the > situation that /mail sits on fossil and some sensitive > mail can remain on the venti forever after a snapshot. No, you are not alone. It I suppose belonging to some philosophical point. Is there any information which has no value? Yes, I think it is. Don't force me into another one's philosophy. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 10:41:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 10:41:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19893 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 10:41:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19889 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:41:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:41:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7524919BA5; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1ABC19A07; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C22BC19BA3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC0B119B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <200309212150.h8LLoej01186@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vfajhmccqvqefvpjsauhfmpked" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vfajhmccqvqefvpjsauhfmpked Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I meant it without qualifiers. We have 2^9 possible permissions. One of them is to allow anyone (that can attach the fs) to do anything. I can see when that's a useful thing. For the /mail/box directory its a bit too much. Geoff Collyer suggested making the 'a' bit on directories mean that you can't rename files (ala unix sticky bit?). I wouldn't mind that for the mail directory. --upas-vfajhmccqvqefvpjsauhfmpked Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 17:51:37 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 17:51:35 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C02419B8A; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BFF419B1F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF6019B52; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D34919B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8LLoej01186 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309212150.h8LLoej01186@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:55 EDT." <77039d6c59c342f67caf5e2532653730@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:50:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There's nothing wrong with having directories anyone can do anything in. With qualifiers. It depends on who's doing those things. Or, perhaps more importantly, how much you trust them. - Dan C. --upas-vfajhmccqvqefvpjsauhfmpked-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 10:41:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 10:41:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19916 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 10:41:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19911 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:41:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:41:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23C9219B9E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A08BA19BBD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:41:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0186319A07; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2C6D19BA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M1epbk013123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:40:51 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M1epDl032732 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:40:51 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M1eo7W031450 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:40:50 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:40:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I kind of like the idea that I can get my mail back after I delete it, > but I don't have much of a sensitive nature sitting in my mailbox, as > a general rule. I guess I'm just not that interesting of a person. :-) actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 10:59:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 10:59:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20681 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 10:59:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20645 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:58:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:58:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DD1E19BA3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9B8119B9E; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B4F419B8F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D878B19B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:58:04 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. Actually, I smelled this kind of philosopy to my discussion that we should give an oppotunity not to make archive something. At least, the user should be able to choose it. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 11:05:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:05:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21004 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 11:05:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20972 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 11:04:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 11:04:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB2A019BAD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5534319B71; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D165719B96; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D02119B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <72d8fea855f2459c74beb58303af040c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] HP PSC-2110 available to us Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:04:47 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is not a CM mail.☺ My all-in-one type (Printer/Scanner/Copy) type HP PSC-2110 connected to Sape's usb port is now working to print postscript files using g++ ported by dhog (with a little band-aids), and hpijs-1.4.1 driver for ghostscript 8.11. I chose HP, because it has maximum open source driver named as hpijs cowork with gs greater than 7.05. The PSC 2110 has comparable functionallity with Canon and Epson candidates though. I'm now cleaning up the sources. Yes, it's time for you, using Plan 9 at home, to buy that printer model.☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 11:08:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:08:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21162 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 11:08:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21134 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 11:07:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 11:07:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4419519BA3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03E5719BAD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B05419BAD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBB8519BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8M267j02291 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309220206.h8M267j02291@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:40:49 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:06:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dave wrote: > There's nothing wrong with having directories anyone can do anything in. And then I wrote: > With qualifiers. It depends on who's doing those things. Or, perhaps > more importantly, how much you trust them. And then David Presotto writes: > Actually, I meant it without qualifiers. We have 2^9 possible permissions. > One of them is to allow anyone (that can attach the fs) to do anything. I > can see when that's a useful thing. For the /mail/box directory its a bit > too much. Geoff Collyer suggested making the 'a' bit on directories mean > that you can't rename files (ala unix sticky bit?). I wouldn't mind that > for the mail directory. Ahh, I think we're talking at cross-purposes. I see now what you mean, or at least I think I do: there's nothing wrong with being able to create directories that anyone can do anything in. I thought you meant there was nothing wrong with having directories that anyone can do anything in on any given system. Clearly, there are some systems where such directories would not be desired, even though the possibility exists to create them. - Dan C. (As an aside, thinking about this lead to a nice mental diversion on pondinger the ambiguities inherent in the English language, and how much we lose when we communicate in such a way that body langage, tone of voice, etc disappear.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 11:11:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:11:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21333 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 11:11:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21275 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 11:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 11:10:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7E7319BC3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3A9619A2A; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:10:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C64E19A19; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01FD1199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c8251f3d87317f9660e0e05a15162e3@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] HP PSC-2110 available to us From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <72d8fea855f2459c74beb58303af040c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:10:07 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Yes, it's time for you, using Plan 9 at home, to buy that printer model.☺ Of course, all the other ink jet and laser printers connected to usb or conventional printer port will work by this gs-8.11 and hpijs driver. If you have expensive color postscript printer, you may not need it. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 11:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21470 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 11:13:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21466 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 11:13:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 11:13:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A893319BD5; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37DD519BA3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7445919BC2; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2021619BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:12:19 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2E2DA000-ECA2-11D7-BC2F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:12:13 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What I don't understand is the needs for the directory to allow anyone to do anything. I am afraid that the existence of such a directory is something like a trap door. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 11:23:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:23:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22159 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 11:23:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22150 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 11:23:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 11:23:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D7CD19BD9; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB70519BBD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 469E919BC3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CDE6C19BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29167 invoked by uid 991); 22 Sep 2003 02:22:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20030922022256.29166.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-reply-to: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Dan Cross message dated "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | Yeah. Maybe fossilcons could be replaced by an rc in a sandbox with | nothing but fossil `commands' and scripts in it. Maybe we're reinventing tcl---the lean original before it tried to compete with perl. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 13:02:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:02:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26534 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 12:57:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26486 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 12:56:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 12:56:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1428319BE3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EDA619BA8; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:56:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E88C19BBD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB56119B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8M41Ax06943 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:01:10 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Austin Cypherpunks Monthly Social (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:01:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Time: October 14, 2003 Second Tuesday of each month 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) Location: Central Market HEB Cafe 38th and N. Lamar Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables. If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside the building proper. Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography" book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick. Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr There is an irc channel that is available 24/365 at irc.open-forge.org on port 6667. This resource is made available by the good graces of Open Forge, LLC. The mailing list can be joined by sending an email to majordomo@ssz.com with 'subscribe austin-cpunks' in the body. News & Events: The H18 Plan 9 efforts are well underway with three three (3) boxes available in Austin (more on the way) and other boxes in places like Russia, Spain, and Portugal. We are currently working on kernel patches that allow an increased pool of cpu servers to be available to user processes. Another P9 effort is integrating RSA into the factotum. We've got several wireless nodes available now and will be upgrading the SSZ node in particular in the next couple of weeks. We're expanding our system from just 802.11b to include a, b, & g. There will be a road trip to Dallas on Oct. 4 for the 1st Saturday Computer Sale that is held each month. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 13:02:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:02:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26533 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 12:57:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26463 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 12:55:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 12:55:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0089E19BD5; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A227619BA8; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:55:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AA8619BAB; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68F7E19B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8M40Bl06939 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:00:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Weekly Hangar 18 Social (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:00:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Asymmetric Clustering... Distributed Name Space... Global Sign-on... Guerrilla Networking... Open Source Technology... Do these words make your heart beat faster and your breath go shallow? If so then perhaps you should become involved with Hangar 18. We are a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source technology. We don't focus on any one form of technology but instead focus on real world applications in grid or large scale distributed computing. Time: Oct. 25, 2003 (last Thu. of month) Every Thursday, excluding national holidays 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) http://open-forge.org Location: The location varies from week to week so be sure to check with an active Hangar 18 member (or join the mailing list!) for more information. The last Thursday of each month we meet at the Robot Group. Please contact them directly for directions, per their request. http://robotgroup.net Identification: We'll be the group with the Plan 9 stuff...;) Homepage: http://open-forge.org/hangar18/ Mailing List: Send 'majordomo@open-forge.org' an email which has in the body 'subscribe hangar18-general' and nothing else. You should be subscribed to the list and recieve a notification back from the server. There are a variety of mailing lists currently available. Internet Relay Chat: kraken.open-forge.org 6667 The Open Forge group tries to meet each evening at 10PM (Austin, Tx.). The server is available for use 24/365. Austin Contacts: Open Forge, LLC helpdesk: 512-695-4126 (24/365) vmb: 512-451-7087 help@open-forge.com Events & News: There is a 1st Saturday Sale road trip scheduled for Oct. 4. We'll be starting a re-write of the installation How To over the next week or so. Look for it around the first couple of Oct. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 13:19:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:19:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27531 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 13:19:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27527 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 13:19:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 13:19:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFEAA19BDC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95C0C19BB7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:19:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B246019BB7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (unknown [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B338A19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:18:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-122-71-174.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.122.71.174]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8M4IQbD009339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:18:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:18:45 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Actually, I smelled this kind of philosopy to my discussion that > we should give an oppotunity not to make archive something. > At least, the user should be able to choose it. but then you need a user interface to make the choice. not worth it. just archive everything. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 13:29:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:29:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28035 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 13:29:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28031 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 13:29:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 13:29:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DC6919BE2; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2104419BB7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C364B19BD5; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D05919B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:28:16 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030922022256.29166.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Message-Id: <2C0EE556-ECB5-11D7-BC2F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:28:10 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) YAMANASHI Takeshi: > "On Sun Sep 21 21:33:30 JST 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote:" >> I think it is convenient if /mail/box/$user is automatic created >> at the time when /usr/$user is created. > > I'm afraid to contradict you, Not contradicted. I don't said mail box should be archived. I don't hope my mail is archived nor stored in public machine. I always forward my mail to my personal machine. Dan C: > Yeah. Maybe fossilcons could be replaced by an rc in a sandbox with > nothing but fossil `commands' and scripts in it. More strong and comfortable administration may be: "nemo's single-user-allow fossilcons" + "deletion allowing archiver" Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 13:49:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 13:49:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29349 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 13:49:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29339 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 13:49:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 13:49:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73E0A19BE7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A734C19BDB; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C52EA19BB7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FFEE19BDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e7b2b8a93d679bbbe783e5bb0492ca6@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:49:32 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Actually, I smelled this kind of philosopy to my discussion that >> we should give an oppotunity not to make archive something. >> At least, the user should be able to choose it. > > but then you need a user interface to make the choice. not worth > it. just archive everything. I'm not a kernel person, however, I suppose we can do it without not so much efforts (Oh!, please don't ask myself to do it, because it's beyond my ability). When count a reference in fossil server, make a flag which indicates not to go archive, and those files/directories should not be archived. Those directoies should be confined only under /usr/$user directory. If a user doesn't set that flag, all goes to archive. On such a fossil, I can live with very comfortablly. Am I thinking wrong? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:01:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:01:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29862 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:01:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29857 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:01:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:01:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CA7D19BEB; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 088E319992; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C83119BE2; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D12C219BB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:00:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. And some in Gov't situations were rather taken aback to discover that mail they thought they'd deleted was in fact archived. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:19:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:19:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30659 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:19:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30640 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:19:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:19:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA5719BED; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FE1019BE5; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54EBF19BE1; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FABD19992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5I7bk018719 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:18:07 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5I7Dl016643 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:18:07 -0600 Received: from pink.lanl.gov (pink.lanl.gov [128.165.250.188]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5I77W004209 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:18:07 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] why do we need 9load? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:18:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) OK, I just a little while back RTFM (well, Andrey Read The FM, and said "Ron, why don't you ever R The FM", so I did) and noticed /dev/reboot. Hey, plan 9 can reboot Plan 9 kernels. Hey, the code is really slick. Why can't I write code this good any more? Too old? Time for me to move into management or something? So now I'm wondering, after spending a few months jiggering 9load, why do we need it? Could we use Plan 9 to boot Plan 9? It seems like it ought to be possible, and would remove the burden of keeping 9load up to date (which was a bit of work for the Geodes and CF). Seems to me I could load Plan 9 from flash, and then just have it load the real kernel we want. Inquiring minds, minds which on rare occasions RTFM, want to know. What I'd really like to do is test this out on EPIA, the currently really cool cheapo mobo. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:21:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:21:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30740 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:20:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30695 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:20:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:20:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AA7819BF0; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A6AC19BE7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AAB3719BF0; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9732319BE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5JNbk018742 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:19:24 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5JNPK031104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:19:23 -0600 Received: from pink.lanl.gov (pink.lanl.gov [128.165.250.188]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5JN7W004232 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:19:23 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:19:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Dennis Ritchie wrote: > > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. > > And some in Gov't situations were rather taken > aback to discover that mail they thought they'd > deleted was in fact archived. yeah, that's always a good time when that happens :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:23:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:23:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30884 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:23:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30877 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:23:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:23:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3DF219BF1; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26CEB19BEB; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:23:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 384C119BEC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BE1219BE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why do we need 9load? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:22:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > OK, I just a little while back RTFM (well, Andrey Read The FM, and said > "Ron, why don't you ever R The FM", so I did) and noticed /dev/reboot. > Hey, plan 9 can reboot Plan 9 kernels. Hey, the code is really slick. Why > can't I write code this good any more? Too old? Time for me to move into > management or something? > > So now I'm wondering, after spending a few months jiggering 9load, why do > we need it? Could we use Plan 9 to boot Plan 9? It seems like it ought to > be possible, and would remove the burden of keeping 9load up to date > (which was a bit of work for the Geodes and CF). that was the plan. like many projects, it got stalled for lack of manpower. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:26:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:26:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31028 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:26:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31024 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:26:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:26:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 367C019BFD; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 478B119BFC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:26:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDB2A19BEC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA86C19BDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5Pmbk018887 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:25:48 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5PmDl017210 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:25:48 -0600 Received: from pink.lanl.gov (pink.lanl.gov [128.165.250.188]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8M5Pl7W004370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:25:47 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why do we need 9load? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:25:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > that was the plan. like many projects, it got stalled for lack of manpower. ok, so there's nothing insane about it. I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. It's easier to fix Plan 9 for linuxbios, then to fix both 9load and Plan 9 for linuxbios -- my calculator claims it is twice as easy to fix half the number of things. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 14:57:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 14:57:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32396 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 14:57:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32382 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 14:57:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 14:57:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5B8B19C03; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F30919BF7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:57:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24AF919BF9; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1922819BF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <206301CE-ECBD-11D7-BC2F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:56:04 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Russ tells me that one can run a fossil filesystem with just a write buffer and no venti backing store to get the effect of the `other' file system on Ken's file server. So if you have a normal fossil `main' file system using venti as backing store and an `other' file system without venti backing store, you can put your /mail or /mail/box on `other' and bind -c it over /mail or /mail/box respectively in /lib/namespace.local, and you've got the effect you want, if I understand you correctly. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:07:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:07:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 513 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:07:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 509 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:07:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:07:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DAEC19C02; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 367B019BE7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:07:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DAB319BEC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A654319BE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: subject: Re: [9fans] why do we need 9load? From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:09:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Seems to me I could load Plan 9 from flash, and then just have it load the >>real kernel we want. it was done on some older Plan 9 platforms. it's also what we do with Inferno on some (not enough) platforms. the kernel has got most of the drivers, after all. if you keep a collection of commands in #/, you can do flash management conveniently through a name space. one of the dangers in spending too long on a bootstrap is that you'll end up writing an operating system, with its own drivers, its own command structure of course, with less thought than you'd put into a proper one. it's often as much code than the thing it's booting, or even more, and certainly that much more to port and maintain. you sometimes do need something small during the initial stages of a port to a platform, especially if you must load it as S records, but it's best not to go overboard. 9load is probably at the limit. in other words, you realise 9load is not too bad, once you've had to look at one of the sourceforge alternatives and weighed it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:12:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:12:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 664 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:11:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 655 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:11:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:11:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0870219C04; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E7CE19BF8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4A8519BFC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BC8419BEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f4afda7d3b5d4a89b9d83d59ba6a57e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:10:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It is not at clear to me that an "no archive" bit is such a good idea. My main objection is that it is implicit -- if I set the bit for /usr/rsc, it's hard to see quickly that /usr/rsc/lib/profile is not archived. Then again, we already have this property with walk -- if I chmod 700 /usr/rsc then even if /usr/rsc/lib/profile is mode 666, no one else can edit it. Further, if you wondered why "cat `{yesterday lib/profile}" wasn't working, it would tell you: glenda% cat `{yesterday /usr/r/lib/profile} cat: can't open /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile: '/n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r' does not exist glenda% or at least it should -- the error-generating code appears not to be working properly. It actually says: glenda% cat `{yesterday /usr/r/lib/profile} cat: can't open /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile: '/n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile' does not exist glenda% which is wrong. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1329 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:22:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1325 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:22:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:22:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 599C019C0D; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4C0C19BF8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EAE419C02; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85EDF19B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <75e7381881d834cde7f12f6cbf3dca98@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <2f4afda7d3b5d4a89b9d83d59ba6a57e@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:22:25 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It is not at clear to me that an "no archive" bit is such > a good idea. My main objection is that it is implicit -- if > I set the bit for /usr/rsc, it's hard to see quickly that > /usr/rsc/lib/profile is not archived. Really? I thought it must be done easily. Of course, I have no good knowledge of it. Is it really difficult? All the default setting is going to archive, and only some directories, (or it should be confined to files only, I'm not sure yet), will be set by the user to no archive. Of if a directory is set so, underlying directories must be so. If it's not easy to many user, s/he will not use it. It's not important. The point is there is such an oppotunity to trained user. It's freedom to use that operating system related, I believe. > Then again, we already > have this property with walk -- if I chmod 700 /usr/rsc then > even if /usr/rsc/lib/profile is mode 666, no one else can edit it. > Further, if you wondered why "cat `{yesterday lib/profile}" wasn't > working, it would tell you: > > glenda% cat `{yesterday /usr/r/lib/profile} > cat: can't open /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile: > '/n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r' does not exist > glenda% > > or at least it should -- the error-generating code appears > not to be working properly. It actually says: > > glenda% cat `{yesterday /usr/r/lib/profile} > cat: can't open /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile: > '/n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile' does not exist > glenda% > > which is wrong. Both are not wrong. User must know what s/he did on his/her home directory. Is it really difficult, once again? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:27:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:27:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1618 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:27:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1612 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:27:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:27:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3775219C13; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BD4419C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B91819C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3E2619BE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:26:44 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <2f4afda7d3b5d4a89b9d83d59ba6a57e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:26:43 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Russ Cox: > It is not at clear to me that an "no archive" bit is such > a good idea. My main objection is that it is implicit -- if > I set the bit for /usr/rsc, it's hard to see quickly that > /usr/rsc/lib/profile is not archived. I think "no archive" bit is not allowed directory if we introduce it, though I am skeptical about the necessity of the bit. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:31:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:31:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1816 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:31:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1808 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:31:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:31:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F96319BFC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7903319C0E; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 95F9419C0E; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B48019BFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h8M6UPxQ025937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:25 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h8M6UPh9025928; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:25 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h8M6UOQY025926; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:24 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200309220630.h8M6UOQY025926@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: rminnich@lanl.gov Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, lac@strakt.com Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:24 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail >un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. Any time you want to buy a CAPS system, Ron, you know where to find us :-) (Though having received over 3000 copies of the blaster worm this weekend has convinced me that anybody, who like us offers this has got to have a 'this mail is virtually identical to that mail, so just store one copy and make a database link' option.) Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 15:52:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 15:52:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2939 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 15:52:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2935 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 15:52:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 15:52:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1038A19C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 794A119A66; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:52:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0C9319C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AF5319BEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <75e7381881d834cde7f12f6cbf3dca98@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Both are not wrong. > User must know what s/he did on his/her home directory. If accessing /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile fails because .../usr/r does not exist, then the error should say '/usr/r does not exist' instead of saying '/usr/r/lib/profile does not exist'. Both messages are true, but the first is more specific and thus more useful. The kernel used to produce the first message, but now produces the second. > Is it really difficult, once again? I meant to finish my last message with this point but I got sidetracked by the error message not being what I expected. I think the noarchive bit would be trivial to implement -- the necessary code already exists in order to avoid archiving /n/snap. I'm just not sure it's a good idea. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:13:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:13:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4243 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:13:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4238 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:13:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:13:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0291219C1C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2D9019C10; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A31519C15; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB4C519C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:12:59 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think the noarchive bit would be trivial to implement -- the > necessary code already exists in order to avoid archiving /n/snap. > I'm just not sure it's a good idea. I expected this answer. I think it depends on how we consider what is junk. I believe there are many junks in the real world, and we should be able to judge which is junk or not by ourselves when it is concerned ourselves at least. I'm receiving thousands of junk mails describing MS Custermer etc. I think those are definetly junks and never to go archive. Some students may gather some kinds of pictures in his home directory. Those must not be archived! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:26:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:26:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4817 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:25:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4800 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:24:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:24:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4BF019C23; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7024619C1C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01D4719C1E; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96C1919BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-giklgodcnjaumismnlmgdtqudz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:22:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-giklgodcnjaumismnlmgdtqudz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem is how do you know what's junk and what's not without requiring human intervention. For example, it's nice to have a different not archived fs because users know that all in the main one gets archived; thus there's no opportunity for them to forget to set the noarchive bit. I thought of adding the noarchive bit, to unify our main (archived) and once (not archived) file systems; but after thinking twice, I thought users would forget to set the bit on tars downloaded and the like. Regarding abusing the dump, i.e. student homes, right now their homes here are in a not archived file system. Next semester I'm going to experiment with putting them in a fossil with snap but without archiving. BTW, we're receiving *a*lot* of fake upgrade/patch/download mails pretending to be from MS; i.e. 50M just for me just the last weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening to you? --upas-giklgodcnjaumismnlmgdtqudz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 22 09:13:30 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B32B519C1F; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2D9019C10; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A31519C15; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB4C519C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:12:59 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think the noarchive bit would be trivial to implement -- the > necessary code already exists in order to avoid archiving /n/snap. > I'm just not sure it's a good idea. I expected this answer. I think it depends on how we consider what is junk. I believe there are many junks in the real world, and we should be able to judge which is junk or not by ourselves when it is concerned ourselves at least. I'm receiving thousands of junk mails describing MS Custermer etc. I think those are definetly junks and never to go archive. Some students may gather some kinds of pictures in his home directory. Those must not be archived! Kenji --upas-giklgodcnjaumismnlmgdtqudz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:35:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:35:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5223 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:34:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5216 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:34:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 334CF19C29; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6519D19C1B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F56E19C1A; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0473A19ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <757050202256e322181981c36cf96101@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:34:17 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter > does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening > to you? When I logged in to my 9terminal this morning. I thought something wrong happened to our system. It's too much of junk mails such as MS Custermer, Update, returned mail... As long as the noarchive bit concerns, I believe it's worth to have some test implementation to our fossil server. After that, then we can decide which is better. To have a 'other' file system is not a bad idea at now. Because we have no other choise. However, if we don't have problem when we have that bit installed, it looks like not so cool solution to me. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:39:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:39:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5443 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:39:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5433 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:39:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:39:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4480C19C2B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A0FF19C19; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC58719C1B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F23D119BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e8ca53f47a1ecebc2ac0c77009ac30f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <757050202256e322181981c36cf96101@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:38:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) We use the not-archived file system here for /mail/box, for secstore, for /sys/log, for a per-user directory to keep big stuff, for /n/music files and the like. It's been a big success. Since the fs is still in a mirror, we feel kind of secure about the data on it, but we dont get all the useless stuff into venti. If you havent tried it, give it a try for a while and IMHO you'll never want to get back to using just a main file system. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:50:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:50:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6099 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6090 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:50:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 381DA19C32; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68AD519C2B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2045719C21; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 89E8A19BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39038 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 07:49:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 07:49:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 07:49:07 -0000 Received: from yaren by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h8M7n7n425144; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:49:07 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <8cd35cc18e83429adf1a9dc8bec4cd60@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:49:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "On Mon Sep 22 16:13:37 JST 2003, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:" > I'm receiving thousands of junk mails describing MS Custermer etc. > I think those are definetly junks and never to go archive. It is ok those junk mail to be archived. Those disk blocks will never (in practical meaning :) be used unless the bunch of junk is received. > Some students > may gather some kinds of pictures in his home directory. However, this case could be different. Someday they would notice that their deeds cannot be undone. not if throwing the disk into the fire of Mount Doom. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:51:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:51:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6145 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6140 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:51:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:51:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E19E619C37; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B64C019C2C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:51:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CCA619C2C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8C5319BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ken is out of building Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:51:47 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I saw this kind of error message at home, although I don't remember when it appeared exactly. Where this error message came from? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6259 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6252 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:54:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:54:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 076FD19C3C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2378D19C35; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:54:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5484319C32; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2744E19BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <7e8ca53f47a1ecebc2ac0c77009ac30f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:54:31 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We use the not-archived file system here for /mail/box, for secstore, for > /sys/log, for a per-user directory to keep big stuff, for /n/music > files and the like. What must be a beautifule file tree of 'other' file system! ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:55:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:55:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6299 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:55:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6295 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:55:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:55:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8237D19C41; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93A2219C2C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79CA119C2C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53F4D19BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <8cd35cc18e83429adf1a9dc8bec4cd60@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:55:45 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Someday they would > notice that their deeds cannot be undone. not if throwing > the disk into the fire of Mount Doom. If he could ne Einstein, it may be. However, most cases, they are not. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 16:58:23 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 16:58:23 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6437 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 16:58:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6429 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 16:58:22 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 16:58:22 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2518D19C46; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54E3419C3C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:58:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF8F19C2C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7294819BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D16624FF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 17A2027; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:57:10 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ken is out of building Message-ID: <20030922075710.GA27020@mero.morphisms.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I saw this kind of error message at home, although I don't > remember when it appeared exactly. Where this error message > came from? That's Egreg; it "can't happen". You'd need to know what you were doing to figure out the instance. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 17:43:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 17:43:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8878 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 17:43:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8874 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 17:43:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 17:43:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAE9219C2E; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E50A619B8B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08A4319BF8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39C5319B8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4404011-12561>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:42:16 -0400 Message-ID: <02c801c380e5$5d9c5b20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309220630.h8M6UOQY025926@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From: "Laura Creighton" > > Any time you want to buy a CAPS system, Ron, you know where to find > us :-) yeah, i recall something about a thing called the IFC: http://www.strakt.com/docs/IFC200304.pdf From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 18:03:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 18:03:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9443 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 18:03:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9437 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 18:03:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 18:03:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 767B219C46; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B70AD19C27; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBD3B19C31; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.30.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E9219C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8M92q4Z018595; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 87B772D044; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: Dan Cross Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Message-ID: <20030922090242.GB25704@folly> References: <46c56be2fca23401566d24a82fe5ce91@caldo.demon.co.uk> <200309201717.h8KHH6j24641@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309201717.h8KHH6j24641@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 01:17:06PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > I think phrack sites should attach slashdot-style discussion software to > articles. After wading through endless messages that say nothing more > than ``woot! First! lol'', Charles could post his last comment, which > gave me quite a chuckle. but it's a hoax and it makes fun of phrack articles. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 18:14:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 18:14:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9807 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 18:14:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9803 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 18:14:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 18:14:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36F3C19C4A; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C48819C33; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA34919C33; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91E119C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A1Mby-0006Ji-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: I phantom Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200309201549.32709.vthacker@tp9ug.jp>, <20030920153514.GA25835@folly> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:01:14 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=SEMIFORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) markus@openbsd.org (Markus Friedl) wrote in message news:<20030920153514.GA25835@folly>... > AFAIK, phrack 62 is fake, a hoax. > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:55:37AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > He exploited a buffer overrun in his own program. > > It would be more interesting if he exploited a buffer > > overrun in some system program, preferably one that > > listens to the network. But then, he'd still be none. > > > > Russ If you had actually bothered to read the introduction you would know that Phrack 62 is not fake but merely a change of direction. But actually reading..... (a zine, documentation, literature, openssh code) is 2 much to expect from anyone@openbsd.org. To everyone else on this list, I apologize. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 19:22:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 19:22:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11745 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 19:22:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11741 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 19:22:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 19:22:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AB0319A96; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39DF919AE8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A95A19AE8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DDB819A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3792041-30276>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:21:10 -0400 Message-ID: <041b01c380f3$2e8237c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030922075710.GA27020@mero.morphisms.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ken is out of building MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:20:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's Egreg; it "can't happen". You'd need to know what > you were doing to figure out the instance. it's all greg's fault. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 19:25:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 19:25:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11798 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 19:25:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11794 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 19:25:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 19:25:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17C3619C4C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01D7D19AE8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1AC819C27; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0DC9C19AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22032 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:24:14 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:24:14 -0000 Message-ID: <011301c380f3$eecac420$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:26:00 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) there are goofy laws here where some things must be kept for seven years and other things must be expelled after seven. they [banks] use warehouses full of elves and are a difficult sell. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Ritchie" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box > > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. > > And some in Gov't situations were rather taken > aback to discover that mail they thought they'd > deleted was in fact archived. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 19:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 19:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12213 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 19:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12209 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 19:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 19:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB09419BBC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 788A819A19; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:42:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DCED19BBC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5FFA919A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18759 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 10:41:25 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 10:41:25 -0000 Message-ID: <015401c380f6$554b3c50$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030922075710.GA27020@mero.morphisms.net> <041b01c380f3$2e8237c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ken is out of building Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:43:12 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think the current research inferno says "philw fixed it", tho it's still called Egreg. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] ken is out of building > > That's Egreg; it "can't happen". You'd need to know what > > you were doing to figure out the instance. > > it's all greg's fault. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 21:31:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 21:31:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14388 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 21:31:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14384 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 21:31:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 21:31:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5AFA419BD8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0E6819AD3; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFE7719AD3; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81FD019A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92560d757af041062975ae03181213ae@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030922090242.GB25704@folly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wmskjoeeidlcsmptsbqpjugawv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:33:01 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wmskjoeeidlcsmptsbqpjugawv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't know how i'd ever be able to tell the difference! --upas-wmskjoeeidlcsmptsbqpjugawv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A1MbX-00043f-5s; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:53:16 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A1MbX-00043f-5s for forsyth@vitanuova.com; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:03:35 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44B2719C45; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E7AB19C33; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:03:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBD3B19C31; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.30.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1E9219C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by faui03.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8M92q4Z018595; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by folly.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 31451) id 87B772D044; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Friedl To: Dan Cross Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 buffer overflow exploit explained in Phrack Volume 0x0b, Issue 0x3e, Phile #0x09 of 0x0f Message-ID: <20030922090242.GB25704@folly> References: <46c56be2fca23401566d24a82fe5ce91@caldo.demon.co.uk> <200309201717.h8KHH6j24641@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309201717.h8KHH6j24641@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:02:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 01:17:06PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > I think phrack sites should attach slashdot-style discussion software to > articles. After wading through endless messages that say nothing more > than ``woot! First! lol'', Charles could post his last comment, which > gave me quite a chuckle. but it's a hoax and it makes fun of phrack articles. --upas-wmskjoeeidlcsmptsbqpjugawv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:16:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:16:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16794 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:16:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16790 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:16:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:16:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15D7219B22; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD44419ACD; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:16:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE02919AF1; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C530619A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <547ab858ceb9db7f4276e17bc2348226@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-favatokfjmwsqttdlxxxkpbilc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:15:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-favatokfjmwsqttdlxxxkpbilc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You going to fix the error message problem? --upas-favatokfjmwsqttdlxxxkpbilc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Sep 22 02:52:48 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Sep 22 02:52:46 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3750619BB6; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27052199EB; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:52:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0C9319C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AF5319BEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <75e7381881d834cde7f12f6cbf3dca98@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:51:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Both are not wrong. > User must know what s/he did on his/her home directory. If accessing /n/dump/2003/0921/usr/r/lib/profile fails because .../usr/r does not exist, then the error should say '/usr/r does not exist' instead of saying '/usr/r/lib/profile does not exist'. Both messages are true, but the first is more specific and thus more useful. The kernel used to produce the first message, but now produces the second. > Is it really difficult, once again? I meant to finish my last message with this point but I got sidetracked by the error message not being what I expected. I think the noarchive bit would be trivial to implement -- the necessary code already exists in order to avoid archiving /n/snap. I'm just not sure it's a good idea. Russ --upas-favatokfjmwsqttdlxxxkpbilc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:19:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:19:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16833 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16829 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5006F19BDB; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E637119BA2; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C81CD19BD8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D452819BA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c0619a1b523900d0b34aa32cc6cdd41@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <20030922022256.29166.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uacuipjukxqfsmbexeylvemxky" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:17:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uacuipjukxqfsmbexeylvemxky Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Its easy enough to throw one liners at fossilcons by just using echo. With a tiny little wrapper, you can even deal with errors. If you want to write a shell script that does a whole bunch of stuff, this is a better way to do it than turning fossilcons into another emacs. --upas-uacuipjukxqfsmbexeylvemxky Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 22:23:44 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 22:23:41 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FA5919BD8; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9685219BA3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:23:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 469E919BC3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CDE6C19BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29167 invoked by uid 991); 22 Sep 2003 02:22:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20030922022256.29166.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-reply-to: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200309220035.h8M0Z8j01783@augusta.math.psu.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Dan Cross message dated "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:35:08 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:22:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | Yeah. Maybe fossilcons could be replaced by an rc in a sandbox with | nothing but fossil `commands' and scripts in it. Maybe we're reinventing tcl---the lean original before it tried to compete with perl. --upas-uacuipjukxqfsmbexeylvemxky-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:34:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:34:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17113 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:34:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17109 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:34:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:34:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E504C19BA2; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DA0B19B59; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8703E19BA2; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E610719B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id E7C853938; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 919C93937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1442.199.98.17.56.1064240863.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> References: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:27:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp said: > I'm receiving thousands of junk mails describing MS Custermer etc. > I think those are definetly junks and never to go archive. Some students > may gather some kinds of pictures in his home directory. Those must > not be archived! > That question occurred to me as well. Say a user downloads some gigabytes of RIAA bait. Since the next, greatest, version of file-swapping software is a 9p application ;) , how do I delete the files to comply with a court order? Worst case scenario, but... --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:37:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:37:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17215 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:37:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17211 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:37:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:37:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCA9019C50; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB1019C48; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 841AA19C22; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9221719B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <2E2DA000-ECA2-11D7-BC2F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qeygadolsejoewyzyspwuxxzci" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:35:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qeygadolsejoewyzyspwuxxzci Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Then don't use it. We have a very open environment at the labs. Lots of non-critical stuff is in directories or files that anyone can muck with. All systems stuff isn't. There has to be an ability to create `trust everyone' files and directories in such an environment. If you want to hack your file server to not allow it, that's why the source is open. If you are arguing that its too easy to leak things if you leave anything writable except by small interest groups, then you end up spending a lot of time changing group membership. Eventually, every group ends up being way too inclusive. You are right that, lacking proper protection modes, the catch all can be too easily used in inappropriate ways (like for /mail/box). I believe that chopping off everyones hands to avoid anyone stealing is perhaps not the best solution. I think the boyd/geoff/rminnich/alii solution to make the 'a' bit meaningful in directories is a good one. The trick is making it intuitive also so that people are less likely to make mistakes. --upas-qeygadolsejoewyzyspwuxxzci Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 22:13:42 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 22:13:40 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A16A19BBD; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8FB819B96; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7445919BC2; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2021619BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 11:12:19 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2E2DA000-ECA2-11D7-BC2F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:12:13 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What I don't understand is the needs for the directory to allow anyone to do anything. I am afraid that the existence of such a directory is something like a trap door. Kenji Arisawa --upas-qeygadolsejoewyzyspwuxxzci-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:37:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:37:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17223 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:37:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17219 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:37:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:37:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DFC019C5E; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B59C19C52; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5048619C2F; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE87F19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id DD1823938; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 6894C3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1447.199.98.17.56.1064241033.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Fco.J.Ballesteros said: > BTW, we're receiving *a*lot* of fake upgrade/patch/download mails > pretending to be from MS; i.e. 50M just for me just the last > weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter > does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening > to you? > Since these mails are substantially identical, is the problem the 50MB (which should compact to 5-6 versions of the 140kb virus) or the clutter in the directory tree? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:42:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:42:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17379 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17375 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:42:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFA5619C5F; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA2419B92; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4B8C19A9D; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD05119ACD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8MEf7bk005352 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:41:07 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8MEf7Dl006182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:41:07 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8MEf77W016399 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:41:07 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <1442.199.98.17.56.1064240863.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:41:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > That question occurred to me as well. Say a user downloads some gigabytes > of RIAA bait. Since the next, greatest, version of file-swapping software > is a 9p application ;) , how do I delete the files to comply with a court > order? as per a note on usenet a long, long time ago: - take the disks into a parking lot, run over with tank. - put the disks on top of a *REALY* big magnet. The one the user had was so strong it bent the platters. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:43:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:43:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17408 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:43:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17399 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:43:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:43:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BAC219A9D; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5108719C58; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8115F19C4F; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E49F19A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <126eb906e4893fa3ed3e192c47b1c8d3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-frxcebrvaekgtossikvxbptxyc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:42:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-frxcebrvaekgtossikvxbptxyc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We keep a separate file system that isn't backed up. Many people here keep there /usr/xxx/tmp there, both to avoid filling up the dump with trash and to have someplace to put files that they don't want trapped in amber. You could easily put mail files there also, given the correct bind's in /lib/namespace. --upas-frxcebrvaekgtossikvxbptxyc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 21:58:46 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 21 21:58:44 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FDB919B96; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DAE919988; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B4F419B8F; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D878B19B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:58:04 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. Actually, I smelled this kind of philosopy to my discussion that we should give an oppotunity not to make archive something. At least, the user should be able to choose it. Kenji --upas-frxcebrvaekgtossikvxbptxyc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 22 23:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 22 23:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17555 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Sep 2003 23:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17551 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2003 23:48:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Sep 2003 23:48:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97E6319C64; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A204219C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 962C419C56; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 022A419C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 283943939; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id BF2DA3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1493.199.98.17.56.1064241714.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <1442.199.98.17.56.1064240863.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > - take the disks into a parking lot, run over with tank. > - put the disks on top of a *REALY* big magnet. The one the user had > was so strong it bent the platters. OK, now how do I protect myself without destroying my system? Threaten the luser with dismemberment and defenestration if he saves copyrighted stuff, probably. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 00:31:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18639 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 00:31:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18635 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 00:31:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 00:31:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7AD919B3B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BCCF19A9D; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4052819A9D; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8444119B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8MFUWj05085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309221530.h8MFUWj05085@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:00:30 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dennis Ritchie writes: > > > actually in many Gov't situations, a mail system that made mail > > un-deletable would be considered a huge plus. > > And some in Gov't situations were rather taken > aback to discover that mail they thought they'd > deleted was in fact archived. Some CEO's, too, as US Marshalls led them out of their offices in handcuffs. Score one for the little guy! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:44:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 00:44:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18862 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 00:44:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18858 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 00:44:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 00:44:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6735219C3B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F421019B22; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A18E19AD0; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC63419A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21808 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8MFhej05190 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309221543.h8MFhej05190@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Weekly Hangar 18 Social (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:00:10 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:43:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > > Guerrilla Networking... You know, when I enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps, one of the first things I learned about the illustrious history of that organization was that it had participated in many different Guerilla operations in various places around the world, perhaps most notably with the Marine Raiders in World War II, who participated in commando style operations on Japanese-held Islands, and members of the Marine detachment at Peking and the Fourth Marines, who, after the fall of most of mainland China and the of Luzon and Corrigidor in the Phillipines, respectively, refused to surrender and took off for the hills (e.g., of Mindanao), fighting behind enemy lines, living off the land, etc, etc. Consequently, whenever I hear or read this phrase, `Guerilla Networking,' I tend to think of Marines, looking worse for wear after months or even years in the boondocks, standing around at a cocktail party drinking homemade gin. It's a strange mental image. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 01:57:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 01:57:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20248 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 01:57:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20244 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 01:57:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 01:57:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29FA919C07; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35CA119B6B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B54BF19B01; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 589A6199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <95a4ac6b316732befada8221d1c79216@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <1447.199.98.17.56.1064241033.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-luatmftwxdxdwmmhowzlyoggky" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:56:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-luatmftwxdxdwmmhowzlyoggky Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the problem was that the mbox got just too big for the memory we use to have. that was all. --upas-luatmftwxdxdwmmhowzlyoggky Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Sep 22 16:37:53 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E039C19C58; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B59C19C52; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5048619C2F; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE87F19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id DD1823938; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 6894C3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1447.199.98.17.56.1064241033.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <018171da47f1d62ed7e0278bf14eb90c@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> <9ab9f5fd9ed2f70293e8d8f61c1a2167@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Fco.J.Ballesteros said: > BTW, we're receiving *a*lot* of fake upgrade/patch/download mails > pretending to be from MS; i.e. 50M just for me just the last > weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter > does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening > to you? > Since these mails are substantially identical, is the problem the 50MB (which should compact to 5-6 versions of the 140kb virus) or the clutter in the directory tree? --Joel --upas-luatmftwxdxdwmmhowzlyoggky-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 02:53:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 02:53:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21211 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 02:53:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21207 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 02:53:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 02:53:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CD2B19BA7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC0CC19BA7; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:53:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2769519B3B; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42D4419A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15c12bbcce92d2cf7367991f8544bee5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why do we need 9load? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:52:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon Sep 22 01:26:56 EDT 2003, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > > that was the plan. like many projects, it got stalled for lack of manpower. > > ok, so there's nothing insane about it. I'm going to give it a try and see > how it goes. It's easier to fix Plan 9 for linuxbios, then to fix both > 9load and Plan 9 for linuxbios -- my calculator claims it is twice as easy > to fix half the number of things. > > ron I still tinker with it from time to time. There are some things about the current /dev/reboot which I don't like. It still doesn't solve the problem (for us great unwashed) of getting the first kernel into memory from somewhere other than flash without writing more 16-bit code without a real assembler. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 04:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 04:38:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23262 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 04:38:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23258 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 04:38:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 04:38:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC8CC19C52; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B2319C0C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1233019C0C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swpostal.com (host166-165.discord.birch.net [65.16.166.165]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C462A19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309221436.AA8978588@swpostal.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Postmaster" To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> To: , , , , , To: Cc: r.aichi-u.ac.jp@cse.psu.edu, , , , , Cc: , , , , , Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>, , , , , Cc: , X-Mailer: X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by gne-ws.com JunkMail for spam. X-Spam-Tests-Failed: None Subject: [9fans] WARNING: YOU WERE SENT A VIRUS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:36:35 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=ADDR_NUMS_AT_BIGSITE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The Anti-Virus Server software on swpostal.com has reported that you were sent an E-mail from cprewitt@swpostal.com, containing the W32/Swen.A@mm virus in the q379238.exe attachment. The subject of the E-mail was "Current Internet Critical Pack". The E-mail containing the virus has been quarantined to prevent further damage. Headers Follow: Received: from fyaec [67.11.243.160] by gne3.gne-ws.com (SMTPD32-8.02) id AF3E86009C; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:36:30 -0500 FROM: "Microsoft Corporation Security Support" TO: "Commercial Customer" SUBJECT: Current Internet Critical Pack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="cqcounyivnow" Message-Id: <200309221436703.SM01136@fyaec> ------- ------- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by GNE-WS.com AntiVirus Software] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 09:54:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 09:54:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28501 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 09:54:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28497 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 09:54:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 09:54:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9766919B05; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B36E19B43; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:54:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D66B19B23; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DE1719B40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5432442e7284d003f96152cbf8d24cd5@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] HELO & /dev/sysname Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:54:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, my /dev/sysname is tiger my ipnet is called punx Subsequently when I try and send email some mailservers reject mail when tiger.punx is given as my HELO domain. I can perform a dance to get mail to be sent using upas/smtp but I cannot repeat this dance from within Acme or nedmail. I though that I could bind something over /dev/sysname in my profile but that sounds plain wrong. Any suggestions ? matt From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 11:32:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 11:32:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31030 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 11:32:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31026 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 11:32:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 11:32:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1AE919BE6; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2C2C19B93; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D81A19BE6; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B23D819B3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <803248-13496>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:30:47 -0400 Message-ID: <076e01c3817a$5aa100c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:25:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > - take the disks into a parking lot, run over with tank. > - put the disks on top of a *REALY* big magnet. The one the user had > was so strong it bent the platters. thermite grenade. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 13:20:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:20:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1154 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 13:20:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1150 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 13:20:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 13:20:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BCD719C4F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D66B19C22; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D9C319C27; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71C0F19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:19:41 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <95a4ac6b316732befada8221d1c79216@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: <097ADE44-ED7D-11D7-8968-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:18:51 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > BTW, we're receiving *a*lot* of fake upgrade/patch/download mails > pretending to be from MS; i.e. 50M just for me just the last > weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter > does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening > to you? I received 44MB mails in a night. bash$ ls -l ... -rw--w---- 1 arisawa wheel 44534584 Sep 23 08:20 mbox ... bash$ grep '^From ' mbox > x bash$ wc x 360 3960 25975 x bash$ cat x From mpgv.com!pkotula Tue Sep 23 00:11:21 JST 2003 remote from ar ... From earthlink.net!gillouise Tue Sep 23 07:56:00 JST 2003 remote from ar bash$ Mails that is really for me were only 5. bash$ grep 9fans x From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:44:39 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 01:57:43 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 02:53:41 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 04:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar bash$ It seems /mail/lib/blocked is ineffective to block these SPAM. I don't know the reason. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 13:21:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:21:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1181 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 13:21:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1177 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 13:21:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 13:21:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 980DF19BA8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC4E419C35; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7028219C4A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5A3F19C22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:20:38 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <95a4ac6b316732befada8221d1c79216@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: <48C88D0E-ED7D-11D7-98E3-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:20:37 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > BTW, we're receiving *a*lot* of fake upgrade/patch/download mails > pretending to be from MS; i.e. 50M just for me just the last > weekend. I resorted to /mail/lib/patters because the spam filter > does not seem to be enough by now to stop it. Is the same happening > to you? I received 44MB mails in a night. bash$ ls -l ... -rw--w---- 1 arisawa wheel 44534584 Sep 23 08:20 mbox ... bash$ grep '^From ' mbox > x bash$ wc x 360 3960 25975 x bash$ cat x From mpgv.com!pkotula Tue Sep 23 00:11:21 JST 2003 remote from ar ... From earthlink.net!gillouise Tue Sep 23 07:56:00 JST 2003 remote from ar bash$ Mails that is really for me were only 5. bash$ grep 9fans x From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 00:44:39 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 01:57:43 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 02:53:41 JST 2003 remote from ar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 04:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar bash$ It seems /mail/lib/blocked is ineffective to block these SPAM. I don't know the reason. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 13:40:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:40:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1490 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1486 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 13:40:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AB4E19C76; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A81819C6D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C958519C6E; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89D6E19C6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 13:39:03 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:39:02 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto: > Then don't use it. We have a very open environment at the labs. Lots > of non-critical stuff is in directories or files that anyone can muck > with. > All systems stuff isn't. .... Thanks David. I complain only to the property: Anyone can remove or rename other person's file or directory. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 17:33:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 17:33:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6913 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 17:33:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6903 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 17:33:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 17:33:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 746D719C7C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F3B019C69; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 472DC19C6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shake.cse.psu.edu (shake.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.7]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 798C919C69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by shake.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 755761B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] HELO & /dev/sysname From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <5432442e7284d003f96152cbf8d24cd5@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wszmnzmhzmkjdozkqtgimrtqan" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:31:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wszmnzmhzmkjdozkqtgimrtqan Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If environment variable 'site' is defined, its value will be used for the HELO message instead of /dev/sysname. --upas-wszmnzmhzmkjdozkqtgimrtqan Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Delivered-To: miller@B Received: (qmail 53700 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 00:54:38 -0000 Received: from lon-mail-1.gradwell.net (193.111.200.125) by pop3.gradwell.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 00:54:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 5141 invoked by uid 800); 23 Sep 2003 00:54:37 -0000 Delivered-To: forwarding-9fans@hamnavoe.com X-Envelope-To: 9fans@hamnavoe.com X-Forwarding-To: 9fans@hamnavoe.com Received: (qmail 5126 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 00:54:36 -0000 Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.4.6) by lon-mail-1.gradwell.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 00:54:36 -0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03E3B19B62; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0CD119B05; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D66B19B23; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (pc1-nott2-3-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DE1719B40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5432442e7284d003f96152cbf8d24cd5@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Subject: [9fans] HELO & /dev/sysname Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:54:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, my /dev/sysname is tiger my ipnet is called punx Subsequently when I try and send email some mailservers reject mail when tiger.punx is given as my HELO domain. I can perform a dance to get mail to be sent using upas/smtp but I cannot repeat this dance from within Acme or nedmail. I though that I could bind something over /dev/sysname in my profile but that sounds plain wrong. Any suggestions ? matt --upas-wszmnzmhzmkjdozkqtgimrtqan-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 17:59:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 17:59:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7458 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 17:59:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7454 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 17:59:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 17:59:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D081119A7D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FFDF199F0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5341A199F0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78D30199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A1iqz-0000yJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F6F73E4.1CB015E9@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:46:30 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dennis Ritchie wrote: > And some in Gov't situations were rather taken > aback to discover that mail they thought they'd > deleted was in fact archived. In fact there is a legal requirement to archive it all. I think that was reinterpreted to include only material involved in formulating "executive decisions". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 19:12:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 19:12:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9008 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 19:12:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9004 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 19:12:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 19:12:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D0BF19C7B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DFBA19BB0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:12:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F52519BB0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F86919A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NABFbk020274 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:11:15 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NABFDl009764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:11:15 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NABE7W022143 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:11:14 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <097ADE44-ED7D-11D7-8968-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:11:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) well, I have stopped even looking at posts to my mailing lists from non-subscribers. I am linking non-SMTP approaches to email more and more. importing /mail/box from 9grid is working well at present. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 21:58:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 21:58:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12182 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 21:58:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12178 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 21:58:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 21:58:09 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8983519BB0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF77019AEB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:57:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 611E419AEB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C754519AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 5C9AB3939; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A3BB3938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from discostu.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.57]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1254.199.98.17.57.1064321404.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <097ADE44-ED7D-11D7-8968-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:50:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I am linking non-SMTP approaches to email more and more. importing s/linking/liking/ ? > /mail/box from 9grid is working well at present. After receiving 1700 (minimum) copies of the Gibe-F/Swen virus over the last five days, I'll go for almost *anything*. Someone *please* implement import /mail/box in a non-p9 mail client - SMTP deserves a decent burial, but it needs to be killed off first. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 22:24:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 22:24:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12663 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 22:24:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12659 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 22:24:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 22:24:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5378A19C52; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A954019AA9; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2F4519AD4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5888619A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <96771f6090eec078acd0e24c01e9e560@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <48C88D0E-ED7D-11D7-98E3-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:23:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) if you pull the current mail/lib/pipeto.lib, you can add if(isvirus) exit 0 to your pipeto files in order to drop this particular virus on the ground before it gets to your mailbox. dave is also experimenting with dropping executable attachments. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 22:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 22:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12878 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 22:36:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12874 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 22:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 22:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 162AE19C89; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7044119AF9; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D16819C73; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DFA319AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b166cf92566d8717211870c9f98c86c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <1254.199.98.17.57.1064321404.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:35:51 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > After receiving 1700 (minimum) copies of the Gibe-F/Swen virus over the > last five days, I'll go for almost *anything*. why are we hardest hit? none of my other email addresses (which generally receive more spam than @cpsc.ucalgary) have had any problems whatsoever. the one address I use for posting to 9fans (and pretty much no external communication) received 350MB worth of viruses since last thursday, in 2000+ messages. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 22:49:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 22:49:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13173 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 22:49:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13169 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 22:49:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 22:49:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53F8619C8F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7625519C73; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:49:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CDE819C24; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AAEF19C73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8585768-20631>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:48:09 -0400 Message-ID: <0c8301c381d6$b8727880$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2b166cf92566d8717211870c9f98c86c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:29:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > why are we hardest hit? 'Sender domain must resolve' = () From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 22:51:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 22:51:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13204 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 22:51:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13200 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 22:51:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 22:51:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD9C919C8E; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EB7219C73; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 733B419C6B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6498B19C73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8NDo4jp001264 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:50:04 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C70@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Thread-Index: AcOB18ZTqjFOh4CxTpe3bMlbZgTwTAAAQuww From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:50:00 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >why are we hardest hit? none of my other email addresses (which >generally receive more spam than @cpsc.ucalgary) have had any problems >whatsoever. the one address I use for posting to 9fans (and pretty >much no external communication) received 350MB worth of viruses since >last thursday, in 2000+ messages. highly strange, indeed. of my company (~ 30 workers) i am the *only* one = hit,=20 and i'm getting about 700 viruses/day. (not to mention all the 'delivery = impossible' messages.) what's more strange, it seems that i was among the first to = be hit. i wonder if they did some email scavenging from usenet before releasing = it... Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 22:56:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 22:56:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13412 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 22:56:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13408 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 22:56:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 22:56:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8514419C90; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E17919C7D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:56:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 809F919C82; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07B3319C7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 8AB21CC7E; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:55:44 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box Message-ID: <20030923135544.GA21299@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <2b166cf92566d8717211870c9f98c86c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <0c8301c381d6$b8727880$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0c8301c381d6$b8727880$b9844051@insultant.net> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:55:44 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 03:29:29PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > why are we hardest hit? > > 'Sender domain must resolve' = () All your domain are belong to VeriSign. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 23:02:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 23:02:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13704 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 23:02:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13700 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 23:02:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 23:02:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4999119C24; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B848519C24; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:02:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A01E519C94; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78C8A19C24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8ND5XAo019376 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:05:34 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <2b166cf92566d8717211870c9f98c86c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:05:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > why are we hardest hit? none of my other email addresses (which I'm sure it has nothing to do with our community's tendency to lambast uneducated dissenters on their pilgrimage for the one true license. "Hey, those guys made fun of stallman. Get 'em!" "YEAH!" "... but they're smarter than us, boss ... " "well, then, let's spam 'em!" "YEAH!" The events, characters and situations in this story are fictitious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or to actual events is purely coincidental. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 23 23:41:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 23 23:41:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14556 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Sep 2003 23:41:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14552 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 23:41:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 23:41:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C515919C7D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C263719B1C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:41:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BB1B19A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07F61199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NEecbk024014 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:40:38 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NEebPK004415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:40:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NEea7W029425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:40:36 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <2b166cf92566d8717211870c9f98c86c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:40:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > why are we hardest hit? none of my other email addresses (which > generally receive more spam than @cpsc.ucalgary) have had any problems > whatsoever. the one address I use for posting to 9fans (and pretty > much no external communication) received 350MB worth of viruses since > last thursday, in 2000+ messages. we may not be the hardest hit. Oon my other email accounts there is a lot of filtering being done @lanl. I assume there is no filtering being done on your 9fans address. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 00:15:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 00:15:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15416 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 00:15:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15412 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 00:15:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 00:15:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1212C19C88; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7934B19AA8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:15:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C93D019AA8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B96F919A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NFEubk001038 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:14:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NFEso3023231 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:14:55 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NFEs7W031063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:14:54 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] why do we need 9load? In-Reply-To: <15c12bbcce92d2cf7367991f8544bee5@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:14:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > I still tinker with it from time to time. There are some things about the > current /dev/reboot which I don't like. one thing that would be real nice would be to seperate the loading of the new image from the boot. So I could: echo /386/9pctest > /dev/rebootfile disk/kfscmd sync disk/kfscmd halt echo reboot > /dev/reboot Clean shutdown/restart. Anyway I'll be looking at this quick mod if nobody beats me to it (or it's already done and once again I have failed to R The FM). ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 00:23:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 00:23:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15702 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 00:23:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15690 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 00:23:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 00:23:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE2FB19C98; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E813319B17; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F49819A14; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BFC7199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8NFM2p78243; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:22:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:22:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > we may not be the hardest hit. Oon my other email accounts there is a lot > of filtering being done @lanl. I assume there is no filtering being done > on your 9fans address. it appears that the virus scavenges usenet for addresses, at least looking at the strings in the binary. and we're all posting to usenet regularly. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 00:54:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 00:54:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16495 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 00:54:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16491 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 00:54:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 00:54:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 770B719C9B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F72819B4A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15D9319B21; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB371199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h8NFr9RB009603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:53:09 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h8NFr9h9001934; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:53:09 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h8NFr9An001932; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:53:09 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: lac@strakt.com Subject: [9fans] hardest hit ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:53:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Well, I had the misfortune to once write a python PEP. Now I am still getting 2 - 3 *thousand* of the things _every day_, and so are the other PEP writers I have spoken with. Thank you, thank you Stephen R. van den Berg for procmail. Never needed it more. I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. Write this up so that after we deduct our legal costs, we send all the money we are awarded to Amnesty International, or the Red Cross or something. Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:04:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:04:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16766 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16762 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:04:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B8CE19B46; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBE4019AAE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:04:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 624AE19AAE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD4A8199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E6324FF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3CD0527; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:40 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... Message-ID: <20030923160340.GA44848@mero.morphisms.net> References: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 05:53:09PM +0200, Laura Creighton wrote: > Well, I had the misfortune to once write a python PEP. Now I am > still getting 2 - 3 *thousand* of the things _every day_, and so > are the other PEP writers I have spoken with. Thank you, thank > you Stephen R. van den Berg for procmail. Never needed it more. > > I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against > Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. > Write this up so that after we deduct our legal costs, we send all > the money we are awarded to Amnesty International, or the Red Cross or > something. Hear Hear! I'm not as bad off and a hacked copy of upas running on unix is enough to let me reject the vast majority of the crud on the basis of SHA1 hash alone, but still it is a real pisser to be wasting resources on this much junk. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:24:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:24:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17058 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:24:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17054 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:24:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:24:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7171119BC4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A4AC19BC4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A59F19BC4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEFF2199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc0vj.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.3.243] helo=acm.org) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A1pwl-0000oE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:23:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3F7010DE.8030807@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030726 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... References: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20030923160340.GA44848@mero.morphisms.net> In-Reply-To: <20030923160340.GA44848@mero.morphisms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:22:38 +0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) alot of people have an ISP that limits the size of the incoming mailbox. mine was good enough to jam through an email telling me that mine was filled, so I used their mail software to empty it, but it looks as though I must do that, now, every morning. noticed that the bayesian filter of Mozilla 1.4 is very effective with all the stuff that purports to be from microsoft ... - Don William Josephson wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 05:53:09PM +0200, Laura Creighton wrote: > >>Well, I had the misfortune to once write a python PEP. Now I am >>still getting 2 - 3 *thousand* of the things _every day_, and so >>are the other PEP writers I have spoken with. Thank you, thank >>you Stephen R. van den Berg for procmail. Never needed it more. >> >>I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against >>Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. >>Write this up so that after we deduct our legal costs, we send all >>the money we are awarded to Amnesty International, or the Red Cross or >>something. > > > Hear Hear! I'm not as bad off and a hacked copy of upas running on unix > is enough to let me reject the vast majority of the crud on the basis of > SHA1 hash alone, but still it is a real pisser to be wasting resources > on this much junk. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:24:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:24:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17078 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:24:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17073 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:24:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:24:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EEDC19CA0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12EDD19C9A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:24:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85515199D1; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7028B19B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NGNdbk022650 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:23:41 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NGNco3025345 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:23:39 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NGNc7W001658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:23:38 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:23:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > it appears that the virus scavenges usenet for addresses, > at least looking at the strings in the binary. and we're all > posting to usenet regularly. anybody here read usenet anymore? it's tempting to start closing all these gateways. usenet signal/noise is so darn low anyway. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:29:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:29:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17246 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:29:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17242 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:29:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:29:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BB1519A0C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4627319A11; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1206B19C9A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5653119AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8NGSCp82991; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) we could close the "official" gateway but there would still be things like gmane. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:32:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:32:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17361 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:32:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17357 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:32:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:32:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A78C19B46; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 236D919C9F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 886BC19B46; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D87119A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48b75dd7cef91db4fc4b9ded89babaea@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:32:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > anybody here read usenet anymore? google groups From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 01:34:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 01:34:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17423 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 01:34:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17419 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 01:34:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 01:34:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 893A719B11; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 350B819C13; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20C9C19CA0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E777119C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8NGdkO15936 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:39:46 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... In-Reply-To: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:39:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Laura Creighton wrote: > I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against > Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. > Write this up so that after we deduct our legal costs, we send all > the money we are awarded to Amnesty International, or the Red Cross or > something. Adjust your meds. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:01:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:01:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17886 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:01:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17882 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:01:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:01:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0909319CB7; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33D29199D2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14EFA19A12; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68A0B199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06645 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8NH0Uj11016 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309231700.h8NH0Uj11016@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:05:33 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:00:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > "Hey, those guys made fun of stallman. Get 'em!" This deserves inclusion in the fortune file. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18309 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18305 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:27:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:27:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0F1A19C8F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADEE019B1C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 097DF19B17; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47B44199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8NHQSj11091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309231726.h8NHQSj11091@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:12 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:26:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've proposed getting rid of the gateway on several occasions, but always met with resistance. I say go for it. USENET couldn't even charitably be considered the CB radio of the Internet now. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:28:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:28:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18323 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:28:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18319 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:28:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:28:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3DC719CB3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D41F819CB2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:28:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A8AA19CAF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 768B419B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16381 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8NHRPj11115 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309231727.h8NHRPj11115@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:39:46 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:27:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > Adjust your meds. Jim, you're projecting! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:35:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:35:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18406 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:35:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18402 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:35:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:35:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7B3A19CB9; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C13D19C9F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C32E19CAE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BAF019B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d43dc1f7898d30fc51b9e9df24451a4@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:38:14 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>it appears that the virus scavenges usenet for addresses, >>at least looking at the strings in the binary. and we're all >>posting to usenet regularly. i have long noticed a big increase in spam whenever i sent something to 9fans. i'd forgotten about the usenet gateway. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:37:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:37:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18459 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:37:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18455 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:37:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:37:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DDEB19CC8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBDDE19CB1; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:37:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFF4A19A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B296E199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8NIuj109700 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:56:45 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.68 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:56:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I am also getting a lot of emails everyday that claims to be from Microsoft. Is it that all the people in 9fans list are affected? Unfortunately, I use squirrelmail to read my mails. So I have to delete all the junk mails manually. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:38:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:38:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18502 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:38:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18498 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:38:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:38:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 28A0619CD3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 758FA19CC2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 007BA19CC3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E075C19CC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:37:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NHbRbk013525 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:37:28 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NHbRPK027611 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:37:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NHbR7W004759 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:37:27 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] spam Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:37:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) wonder if we could have an address to mail to that means "don't gateway this mail" and then only mail people want to let out would go to usenet? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:41:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:41:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18591 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:41:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18586 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:41:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:41:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1247819CB6; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3820919AA2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:41:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFA7C19AAC; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FCDA19A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc0vj.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.3.243] helo=acm.org) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A1r9j-0003E1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3F702306.10809@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030726 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... References: <200309231727.h8NHRPj11115@augusta.math.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200309231727.h8NHRPj11115@augusta.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:06 +0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) touche! Dan Cross wrote: > Jim Choate writes: > >>Adjust your meds. > > > Jim, you're projecting! > > - Dan C. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:44:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:44:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18690 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:44:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18686 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:44:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3684719CBC; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8AE919AA2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:44:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FDA119C8C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thefrayedknot.armory.com (thefrayedknot.armory.com [192.122.209.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 63FDF19AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11367 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Sep 2003 17:43:30 -0000 From: Andrew To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... Message-ID: <20030923174330.GA11328@thefrayedknot.armory.com> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:43:30 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) im getting tons of them (over 9mb just last night), a friend of mine had the idea to filter out attachments with .bat .exe .pif .scr and .com extensions on them (since he doesnt get any of those from people he knows). Its worked pretty well for me. On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 02:56:45PM -0400, vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: > Hi, > > I am also getting a lot of emails everyday that claims to be from > Microsoft. Is it that all the people in 9fans list are affected? > > Unfortunately, I use squirrelmail to read my mails. So I have to delete all > the junk mails manually. > > Thanks > dharani > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:47:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:47:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18738 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:47:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18734 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:47:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:47:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC55E19CC3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E0E819CBD; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9BAD19CBF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tiger.punx (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6100719A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52f1f026ba13b09b2715de2692589d8c@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:47:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > wonder if we could have an address to mail to that means "don't gateway > this mail" and then only mail people want to let out would go to usenet? why not just strip *all* of the email addresses or replace them with a dummy address. I'd go along with that. If you really need someone's address you can always look it up in the archives From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:51:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:51:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18776 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:51:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18772 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:51:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7D5E19CC7; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4EAB19C8C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:51:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79DEE19CB1; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B398B19CC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1113524FF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 04F3327; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:50:41 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam Message-ID: <20030923175041.GA46093@mero.morphisms.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-No-Archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:37:26AM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > wonder if we could have an address to mail to that means "don't gateway > this mail" and then only mail people want to let out would go to usenet? There's still the web archive and my experience is that spammers can and do find it. Moreover, it doesn't honor X-No-archive the way google does and you can't get messages removed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:53:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:53:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18803 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:53:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18799 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:53:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:53:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 111C719CC4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E12819B17; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:53:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 019CE199F0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 902F1199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8NHqFI4003437 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:52:15 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C71@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] spam Thread-Index: AcOB+uNqXKjfV+XTTiyCl/p71H819AAAF7zA From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:52:12 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >why not just strip *all* of the email addresses or replace=20 >them with a dummy address. Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all, actually. The more I think=20 about it the more I like it. Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 02:58:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 02:58:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18923 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 02:58:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18919 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 02:58:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 02:58:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65DC319CD6; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA6A619CCB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:58:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E241E19CCB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29C7F19CAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8NH1ZAo020788 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:01:36 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C71@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:01:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >why not just strip *all* of the email addresses or replace > >them with a dummy address. I nominate the dummy address ravage@ssz.com. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 03:00:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 03:00:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18973 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 03:00:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18969 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 03:00:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 03:00:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D08E19CD8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8C3919CAF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98D2319CD8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FC9719CCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8NI5Uw16790 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:05:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... In-Reply-To: <200309231727.h8NHRPj11115@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:05:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Jim Choate writes: > > Adjust your meds. > > Jim, you're projecting! Not at all, just tired of the witch hunt. Complaints that are nothing more than appeals to popular opinion are bogus. And the current societal discussion is nothing more than that. My fellings are hurt, you do something about it. What a lazy, irresponsible attitude. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 03:01:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 03:01:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19011 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19007 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 03:01:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C097D19CBA; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D41219CBA; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 565C119CAF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E195D19CCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8NI71I16802 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:07:01 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:07:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Sam wrote: > > >why not just strip *all* of the email addresses or replace > > >them with a dummy address. > > I nominate the dummy address ravage@ssz.com. Be carefull for what you wish for. You won't like the consequences one damn bit. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 03:50:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 03:50:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19691 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 03:50:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19687 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 03:50:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 03:50:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7520119AA2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E159619AA0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:50:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85BBF19AA2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5199E199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Tue Sep 23 14:49:21 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:49:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I was getting blasted by these a week ago. I have the plan9 nasty gram in place for my normal ID, but was getting them thru some side accounts I have. So, for those, I wrote a check to make sure the mail had my name in the To: or CC:, otherwise I just ditched it. Haven't seen one since. Borf.com gets close to 200,000 emails a day for the cross product of all known account names and all known domain names. It made a real good test for my new NAPT software. :) Brantley On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:56:45 -0400 (EDT), wrote: > Hi, > > I am also getting a lot of emails everyday that claims to be from > Microsoft. Is it that all the people in 9fans list are affected? > > Unfortunately, I use squirrelmail to read my mails. So I have to delete all > the junk mails manually. > > Thanks > dharani > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 04:18:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 04:18:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20274 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 04:18:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20270 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 04:18:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 04:18:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEA5519A90; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3493019AA8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00FAD19AA6; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26E5319A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9f976859a75c4eea7e7aaf29399e01ab@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <200309231726.h8NHQSj11091@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:17:05 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've proposed getting rid of the gateway on several occasions, but > always met with resistance. I say go for it. USENET couldn't even > charitably be considered the CB radio of the Internet now. i search on google news all the time, and only the 9fans archive -- wouldn't like to see that go... i'd say strip the email is a better idea. even if not stripped on the psu.edu archive site that's still an improvement. by the way, if you look at pse.edu archives of 9fans you'll see that messages appear to contain only 9fans@cse address, so the only thing you're left with, that contains the original poster's email address, are the raw mailbox archives there. Judging from the fact that none of the addresses i've previously posted to 9fans from are affected (i.e. the virus can find only the most recent posts on usenet), i'd say substituting something bogus at the usenet gateway will fix at least 90% of our problems... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 04:59:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 04:59:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20948 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 04:59:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20944 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 04:59:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 04:59:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82E3419A12; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE9ED19AA6; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2258F19AB5; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67E5E19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <99fd0d6884d8267962e274f3b784a0e4@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:58:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It turns out that the Lucent gateway does a not-too-bad job of filtering at least some viruses, and also .exe . They do forward the mail along with a note. So during the last go-around I added a simple 'pass through our email gateway' /mail/box/dmr/virus \ to my pipeto. Works pretty well. This is even without the newer stuff Russ & Dave are working on. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 05:23:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 05:23:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21397 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 05:23:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21393 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 05:23:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 05:23:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA13F19B14; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0344319A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:23:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 636BF19A71; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu (goliat.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8AC5199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id 3992DB164A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:22:33 +0200 (MEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] acl.lanl.gov gone forever? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:22:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I remember seeing a message about the 1024 node cluster at acl.lanl.gov shutting down. Is all information about it lost/deleted? I am mainly interested in the power supply to the nodes, the arrangement of the mainboards and the cooling. If there is still any information could somebody point to it? I plan to build a small 10-20 node network from cheap via epia parts. I want to run it at home, so it should be rather silent. thanks: gergo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 05:34:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 05:34:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21538 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 05:34:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21534 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 05:34:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 05:34:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1615C19B89; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95FE819B41; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CCD119B31; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5824D19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NKX2bk029379 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:02 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NKX2Dl015004 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:02 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8NKX17W012048 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:02 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acl.lanl.gov gone forever? In-Reply-To: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, FODEMESI Gergely wrote: > I remember seeing a message about the 1024 node cluster at acl.lanl.gov > shutting down. um, no idea what you're talking about and I'm one of the guys running it. You may mean Nirvana, the 16-node, 2048 CPU SGI Origin cluster. > I plan to build a small 10-20 node network from cheap via epia parts. I > want to run it at home, so it should be rather silent. you'll need a via-rhine driver, which we are working on. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 05:54:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 05:54:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21780 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 05:54:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21776 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 05:54:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 05:54:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5737319C50; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D01E19BCF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:54:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFFA919B41; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D9C0199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8NMDS110578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:13:29 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25769.135.214.42.162.1064355209.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acl.lanl.gov gone forever? From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> References: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:13:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, > I remember seeing a message about the 1024 node cluster > at acl.lanl.gov shutting down. If I am right, there was a note sent sometime back that the Plan9-related website is not hosted by LANL anymore (which is now located at: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/). However, I tried to locate the s-expr port in the new location but couldnt get it. Any problem? Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 06:34:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 06:34:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22358 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 06:34:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22354 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 06:34:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 06:34:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BE4919BCF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A90619AA0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09D6D19AEB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C8D919AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acl.lanl.gov gone forever? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:33:37 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I remember seeing a message about the 1024 node cluster > at acl.lanl.gov shutting down. what Ron said, plus a mirror of www.acl.lanl.gov/plan9 here: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/ you can still see the configuration of the plan9 installation at the ACL, but it wasn't 1024 nodes, not even close :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 06:37:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 06:37:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22386 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 06:37:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22382 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 06:37:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 06:37:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C4F419B22; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 245C0199D8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:37:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E58F199E0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu (goliat.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4363199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id D1E81B164A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:36:41 +0200 (MEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acl.lanl.gov gone forever? Message-ID: <20030923213641.GA9578@eik.bme.hu> References: <20030923202232.GA6928@eik.bme.hu> <25769.135.214.42.162.1064355209.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <25769.135.214.42.162.1064355209.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:36:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, sorry I mixed up the plan9 network and the 1024 node cluster. gergo On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 06:13:29PM -0400, vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: > Hi, > > > I remember seeing a message about the 1024 node cluster > > at acl.lanl.gov shutting down. > > If I am right, there was a note sent sometime back that the Plan9-related > website is not hosted by LANL anymore (which is now located at: > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/). > > However, I tried to locate the s-expr port in the new location but couldnt > get it. Any problem? > > Thanks > dharani > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:07:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:07:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24273 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:07:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24269 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:07:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:07:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 873B9199E5; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F44D199FE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E4C119B32; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CA3B199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02221 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8NN6vj12318 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309232306.h8NN6vj12318@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:17:05 MDT." <9f976859a75c4eea7e7aaf29399e01ab@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca writes: > > > I've proposed getting rid of the gateway on several occasions, but > > always met with resistance. I say go for it. USENET couldn't even > > charitably be considered the CB radio of the Internet now. > > i search on google news all the time, and only the 9fans archive -- > wouldn't like to see that go... > > i'd say strip the email is a better idea. even if not stripped on the > psu.edu archive site that's still an improvement. > > by the way, if you look at pse.edu archives of 9fans you'll see that > messages appear to contain only 9fans@cse address, so the only thing > you're left with, that contains the original poster's email address, > are the raw mailbox archives there. > > Judging from the fact that none of the addresses i've previously > posted to 9fans from are affected (i.e. the virus can find only the most > recent posts on usenet), i'd say substituting something bogus at the > usenet gateway will fix at least 90% of our problems... For years I've been meaning to create a searchable archive of 9fans. (It's not a difficult thing to do, I've just been too lazy to actually do it.) If a decent interface to search the list archives existed, I don't think it'd be a big deal to turn off the usenet gateway. One could make it password protected, but anyone could get a password automatically, to defeat the automated harvesters. But I question whether it would fix the spam problem. Google already has archives going back years; one can't really get rid of those, and they contain many addresses that are still valid. Btw- while the `archiver' thing mailman uses on lists.cse.psu.edu sucks, there is a link to the ``raw mailbox'' or some such there, from whence you can download the entire archives of 9fans since it was moved to mailman. That contains full headers. Further, Scott has links to older archives on his web page, if I'm not mistaken. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:10:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:10:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24304 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:10:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24296 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:10:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:10:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F174A19C85; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A748419A8C; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E674A199FE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E3AFC199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-47-56.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.47.56 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 20:49:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:48:59 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hey all, Thanks for all the previous HP advice. I finally got the cables/caps/etc in the mail, today. I noticed, however, that the BNC terminators come in three parts: + The cap + A metal cylinder of some sort + The pin that functions as the male part of a BNC connector The item(s) can be seen in this photograph, in the lower center. http://www.pacificcable.com/photos/BNC.jpg There are no instructions on how to put this together. If I drop in the pin through the center of the Cap, it doesn't lock. If it tips, the pin will just fall back out. As far as the metal cylinder? I have no idea what it's supposed to do. It doesn't *fit* anywhere that I can tell. These are 50 ohm terminators. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Debug period. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:10:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:10:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24314 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:10:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24310 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:10:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:10:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9DA819C86; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6983419C9A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F17119A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 767F4199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e8f9cbb1030f89aedd4ca469791b70d@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:11:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) To: /dev/sysname, &, HELO, re:, Subject:, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, Subject:, re:, HELO, &, /dev/sysname From: matt@proweb.co.uk Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:11:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I did what I should have done yesterday : acme /sys/src/cmd/upas as well as the -h option to smtp you can also use /env/site so all I needed to do was add site = juice.thebigchoice.com to /mail/box/matt/pipefrom From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:11:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:11:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24338 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:11:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24334 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:11:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:11:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 105DD19B32; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68FF719C82; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4466F19A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DB86199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b9c2d4b03d2870df0dbc71d37b8c7fa@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:11:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) To: /dev/sysname, &, HELO, re:, Subject:, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, Subject:, re:, HELO, &, /dev/sysname From: matt@proweb.co.uk Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:11:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I did what I should have done yesterday : acme /sys/src/cmd/upas as well as the -h option to smtp you can also use /env/site so all I needed to do was add site = juice.thebigchoice.com to /mail/box/matt/pipefrom From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:14:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:14:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24429 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:14:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24425 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:14:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:14:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8F8519CB3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45A1819C83; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C34D19C83; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 142A719B40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <1b9c2d4b03d2870df0dbc71d37b8c7fa@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:15:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oops, I'm almost used to it I didn't notice |fmt munged my post, sorry oh, and sorry for the double, the first attempt reported an error in pipeto and I didn't realise it had been sent 8) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:22:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:22:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24536 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:22:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24532 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:22:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:22:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3903419CBA; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CABD19C98; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:22:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 905B119C98; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C944719C7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07693 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8NNLWj12415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309232321.h8NNLWj12415@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:48:59 CDT." <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:21:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) northern snowfall writes: > > Hey all, > Thanks for all the previous HP advice. I finally > got the cables/caps/etc in the mail, today. I noticed, > however, that the BNC terminators come in three parts: > > + The cap > + A metal cylinder of some sort > + The pin that functions as the male part of a BNC connector > > The item(s) can be seen in this photograph, in the lower center. > http://www.pacificcable.com/photos/BNC.jpg > > There are no instructions on how to put this together. If > I drop in the pin through the center of the Cap, it doesn't > lock. If it tips, the pin will just fall back out. As far as > the metal cylinder? I have no idea what it's supposed to do. It > doesn't *fit* anywhere that I can tell. Oh, you should have gotten pre-made cables. You need a crimp-tool, soldering iron, and wire stripers to put those together, if you got what I think you did (I haven't looked at the website). My gut is to send that stuff back, go to your local radio shack, and ask them to make you a length of RG-58 coax with BNC connectors on either end. Trust me; don't waste your time. I swore that sometime in 1993 was the last time I'd ever crimp BNC connectors onto RG-58. > These are 50 ohm terminators. I hope they're not terminators at all, but rather, connectors. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:31:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:31:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24755 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:31:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24751 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:31:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:31:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2504419CC4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CECC019C98; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 741FB19C7B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8043B19B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27a52931bee0a6b8cf628dd1df202ab4@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: cross@math.psu.edu, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 23 20:11:34 EDT 2003 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > For years I've been meaning to create a searchable archive of 9fans. > (It's not a difficult thing to do. hget -o 9fans.mbox https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans.mbox/9fans.mbox keeps a local version of the full archive in sync If you were feeling adventurous you could even do upas/fs -f 9fans.mbox curiously the full archive starts in Sep 2000 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:31:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:31:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24768 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:31:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24763 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:31:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:31:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5506419CCD; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DA6D19CC6; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:31:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0FA419C7B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0B3919AEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f2f39138e69e1af3d4a1b3153b9df98@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:32:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > For years I've been meaning to create a searchable archive of 9fans. > (It's not a difficult thing to do. hget -o 9fans.mbox https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans.mbox/9fans.mbox keeps a local version of the full archive in sync If you were feeling adventurous you could even do upas/fs -f 9fans.mbox curiously the full archive starts in Sep 2000 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 08:47:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 08:47:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25300 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 08:47:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25296 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 08:47:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 08:47:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC23A19CC3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A36919CC2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:47:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E138619C9D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03D6C19C82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4631827fe81a940a758760e14cc77848@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200309232321.h8NNLWj12415@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:46:38 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) 50Ω resistors, perhaps? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 09:15:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 09:15:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26359 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 09:14:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26305 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 09:13:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 09:13:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D144719CD2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F46E19CC2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:13:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C389419CBA; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9085319C83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8O0Ig119996 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:18:42 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. In-Reply-To: <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:18:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, northern snowfall wrote: > There are no instructions on how to put this together. If > I drop in the pin through the center of the Cap, it doesn't > lock. If it tips, the pin will just fall back out. As far as > the metal cylinder? I have no idea what it's supposed to do. It > doesn't *fit* anywhere that I can tell. You purchased crimp style connectors probably, You'll need the crimp tool at least, and perhaps a soldering iron for that center connector (ala PL-259). You might want to see about just purchasing solder style connectors since they are much easier to use, but not as robust to physical abuse in general as the crimp style. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 09:35:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 09:35:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27120 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 09:30:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27038 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 09:28:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 09:28:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A00A719A03; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A115319A15; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:28:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C31F219A03; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F01519A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01646 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8O0ROj12684 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309240027.h8O0ROj12684@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:32:29 EDT." <5f2f39138e69e1af3d4a1b3153b9df98@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > For years I've been meaning to create a searchable archive of 9fans. > > (It's not a difficult thing to do. > > hget -o 9fans.mbox https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans.mbox/9fans.mbox > > keeps a local version of the full archive in sync That's not very centralized. By definition, I realize, but still. > If you were feeling adventurous you could even do > > upas/fs -f 9fans.mbox And use up a lot of memory.... Actually, everyone would use up a lot of memory. Ick. > curiously the full archive starts in Sep 2000 That corresponds to about the time the CompSci department at Penn State switched from Majordomo to Mailman. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 09:35:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 09:35:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27325 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 09:35:22 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27176 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 09:32:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 09:32:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF4919B22; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A404A199E4; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:32:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F7E619A15; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C58A6199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8O0Vqj12747 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309240031.h8O0Vqj12747@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:46:38 PDT." <4631827fe81a940a758760e14cc77848@collyer.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:31:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > 50Ω resistors, perhaps? Well, yes; terminators in this context are just 50Ω worth of resistors stuck on the back of a BNC connector. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 10:13:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 10:13:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29354 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 10:13:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29350 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 10:13:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 10:13:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 955AD19BCF; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0442B19B31; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5F8619AEB; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33ABA19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <261228-31049>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:12:15 -0400 Message-ID: <0d9201c38233$720e7940$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <48b75dd7cef91db4fc4b9ded89babaea@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:33:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > google groups complete with qualude and burrows. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 11:52:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 11:52:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32330 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 11:03:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32324 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 11:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 11:03:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EAF219CCE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 526B719A15; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BE4819CA0; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E830419A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8O28Ux26799 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:08:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:08:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Eric Grosse wrote: > Amphenol, a top name in RF connectors, has a guide that may help: > http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/AssemblyInstructions/bnc.pdf > One useful trick, if you find dealing with the braid is a mess, > is to tin the braid before cutting. Just make sure the connector doesn't require the braid to be folded back before you solder it, otherwise you'll just have to start all over. Also a dental pick and small edge cutters are best for working with braid. Another hint if you're going to be soldering braid is not to use a standard soldering iron but a soldering gun. The soldering iron usually doesn't have enough heat to heat and wet the braid fast enough not to damage the insulation between it and the core. A gun that is suitable for working on old tubes will be perfect for this. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 11:59:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 11:59:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3037 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 11:58:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3024 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 11:58:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 11:58:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B610219ACC; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C696119AF1; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:58:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9935F19AB2; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2B20919A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18940 invoked by uid 991); 24 Sep 2003 02:57:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20030924025739.18939.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-reply-to: <200309240027.h8O0ROj12684@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200309240027.h8O0ROj12684@augusta.math.psu.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Dan Cross message dated "Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:27:24 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:57:39 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | > curiously the full archive starts in Sep 2000 | | That corresponds to about the time the CompSci department at Penn State | switched from Majordomo to Mailman. Yes. Earlier archives are on my web page. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 12:11:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 12:11:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30789 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 10:40:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30784 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 10:40:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 10:40:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B467119B14; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3890199D8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:40:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69ED819A02; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EB80199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. In-Reply-To: <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rzitnocpzxepjjstvdmwcopfof" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:39:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rzitnocpzxepjjstvdmwcopfof Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amphenol, a top name in RF connectors, has a guide that may help: http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/AssemblyInstructions/bnc.pdf One useful trick, if you find dealing with the braid is a mess, is to tin the braid before cutting. 73 de Eric N2VI --upas-rzitnocpzxepjjstvdmwcopfof Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.9]) by plan9; Tue Sep 23 19:10:25 EDT 2003 Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8NNAMJl051947 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by dusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8NNFE49080298 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57BFF19C76; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E0CD19A6F; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:10:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E674A199FE; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.181]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E3AFC199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-21-47-56.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.21.47.56 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 20:49:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:48:59 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hey all, Thanks for all the previous HP advice. I finally got the cables/caps/etc in the mail, today. I noticed, however, that the BNC terminators come in three parts: + The cap + A metal cylinder of some sort + The pin that functions as the male part of a BNC connector The item(s) can be seen in this photograph, in the lower center. http://www.pacificcable.com/photos/BNC.jpg There are no instructions on how to put this together. If I drop in the pin through the center of the Cap, it doesn't lock. If it tips, the pin will just fall back out. As far as the metal cylinder? I have no idea what it's supposed to do. It doesn't *fit* anywhere that I can tell. These are 50 ohm terminators. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Debug period. --upas-rzitnocpzxepjjstvdmwcopfof-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 12:41:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 12:41:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5030 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 12:41:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5025 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 12:41:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 12:41:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36A8819C21; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B62DB19C13; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:41:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1E3B19C0B; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE12919BD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <580ddc8b7111c39f7cd256e21b6a6508@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <126eb906e4893fa3ed3e192c47b1c8d3@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:41:24 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We keep a separate file system that isn't backed up. Many people > here keep there /usr/xxx/tmp there, If do so, the 'other' file system looks like "garbage" to me. It doesn't cause any problem.., yes, I agree. However, I feel it's not the way of Plan 9 which seaks most elegant way to solve ones. Then, I asked why we don't use noarchive flag in main filesystem. The other filesystem can be used for such as spaces for database, common to whole the system, and of course, for swap etc. Am I thinkng wrong? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 13:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 13:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7846 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 13:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7841 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 13:33:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 13:33:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E440819BB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0713C199D6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88CD519BF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BD9019B43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8O4WBUq021810 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:32:11 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8O4WBSB021806 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:32:11 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box In-Reply-To: <580ddc8b7111c39f7cd256e21b6a6508@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:32:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > However, I feel it's not the way of Plan 9 which seaks most > elegant way to solve ones. I believe Presotto's reasoning was exactly that -- there is no easy and intuitive way to implement a 'do-not-archive' bit. At least not intuitive to the users. People are used to /scratch space already on other systems, just in Plan 9 it would mean 'this will not be backed up, but you could bind it anywhere you like'. A reverse /tmp of sorts :) I'm so happy to have the 'always archive' option with venti that I don't mind it requiring me to be a wee bit careful where I put mp3's :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 17:56:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 17:56:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21114 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 17:56:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21110 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 17:56:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 17:56:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F0AE19BF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98ABA19B89; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F305B19B73; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C59719AA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <688096-3122>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:54:59 -0400 Message-ID: <006801c38279$78f0b340$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:54:30 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against > Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. nope, i say we try my smtp level connection killer. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 17:57:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 17:57:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21158 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 17:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21154 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 17:57:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 17:57:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF99C19C01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7622F19B89; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:57:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 307E919BC3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F19919B40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3784953-516>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:56:27 -0400 Message-ID: <007101c38279$abb00880$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309231553.h8NFr9An001932@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20030923160340.GA44848@mero.morphisms.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:55:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I say we all get together, and make a class-action suit against > Microsoft for writing operating systems that permit such nonsense. run plan 9 run , not lunix. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:08:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:08:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21639 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:08:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21631 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:08:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:08:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 999DF19C0A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEC9619BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:08:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 584C819BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88FB819BAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3688040-17794>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:07:27 -0400 Message-ID: <008701c3827b$34831520$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Adjust your meds. yeah, in my pharmacological opinion you need IV Thioridazine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:12:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:12:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21830 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:12:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21821 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:12:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F85119C16; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B3F719A95; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:12:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61D8D19A95; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEAA519A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <597fdf052e4773580b161eaf7e169012@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] upas/vf Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:11:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I just updated upas/vf, upas/smtpd, and /sys/lib/mimetypes to dump any mail that contains file extentions that in /sys/lib/mimetypes have an 'r' in the 5th field. At the moment that includes .exe, .com, .scr, .bat, .com, and .pif; all of which I saw the virus being spread with. To use it, you'll need the following two files 1) an updated /rc/bin/service/tcp25 #!/bin/rc #smtp serv net incalldir user exec upas/smtpd -m /mail/lib/vfsend -n $3 2) the file /mail/lib/vfsend #!/bin/rc rfork s /bin/upas/vf -r|upas/send $* If you take out the -r option to vf, it will also wrap any attachments that have 'n' in the 5th field of mimetypes with a wrapper that keeps them from accidentally being executed (its old behaviour). If you take out the rfork s, the smtpd won't even send an error return to the other end, it'll just die. You might want to do this. I don't on the off chance that someone might legitimately send something. I still have to correct rfc822.y so that it doesn't get confused by badly fomed headers but I have to relearn yacc error recovery and experiment a bit first. Luckily, those messages are in the noise. This is not to turn anyone off to the bayesian stuff. I just want to catch the cruft earlier and waste as little of my system as possible, ala Boyd. Also, the smtod now has a flag -D that delays response for 15 seconds on the hope that spamers will go away. It works some of the time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22397 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:24:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22393 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:24:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:24:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6034219C2B; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D37A19C05; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92CB219BAC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC625199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3785209-516>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:23:00 -0400 Message-ID: <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:22:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) not @sdgm.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:26:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:26:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22463 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:26:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22459 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:26:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:26:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 690A719C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B9A919C05; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:26:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8892D19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9AC719C34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8590071-7506>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:24:09 -0400 Message-ID: <00c801c3827d$7b1e1dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309231727.h8NHRPj11115@augusta.math.psu.edu> <3F702306.10809@acm.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:23:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > touche! touché From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:31:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:31:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22608 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:31:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22588 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 938DD19C37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:31:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A13DF19C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E61F19C13; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5773F19C37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] upas/vf From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <597fdf052e4773580b161eaf7e169012@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:32:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >This is not to turn anyone off to the bayesian stuff. >I just want to catch the cruft earlier and waste as >little of my system as possible, ala Boyd. This is actually wise. Bayes is for catching Spam. You should filter out viruses *before* they hit the Bayes because they can poison your corpus with their "as legitimate as possible" message bodies. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:31:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:31:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22613 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:31:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22597 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:31:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:31:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9102419C4D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8588D19C5A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:31:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A777519C33; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F69C19C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0204ac29b4d1ba1ee38dae790abdb279@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... In-Reply-To: <00c801c3827d$7b1e1dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:30:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Sep 24 05:26:45 EDT 2003, boyd@insultant.net wrote: > > touche! > > touché touchy By the way, at 05:25:06, our site went 11 whole seconds without an attempt to mail us the virus. Longest we've gone in a while. Maybe its slowing down. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:36:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:36:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22844 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:36:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22840 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:36:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:36:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83F5B19C71; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5913E19C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DBFF19C33; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40B2419C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8O9Z7FO011495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:35:07 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [9fans] hardest hit ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C72@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] hardest hit ... Thread-Index: AcOCfsoLPPCdT+yJT12VXCtjZStaYAAAEiFQ From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:35:03 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BASE64_ENC_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Pk1heWJlIGl0cyBzbG93aW5nIGRvd24uDQoNClllcywgaXQncyBmYWRpbmcgYXdheS4NCg0KVGlp dA0K From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:37:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:37:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22868 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22862 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:37:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:37:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE47719C85; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81CD819C5A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:37:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C41E19C61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C40A19C34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8589949-7512>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <52f1f026ba13b09b2715de2692589d8c@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:34:04 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > why not just strip *all* of the email addresses or replace them with a dummy address. > > I'd go along with that. no way. what's that ben franklin quote about liberty and security? like Brass Balls Obradovitch i refuse to give up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 18:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 18:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23240 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 18:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23236 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64D9419C90; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97E9019C61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:46:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF7AE19C61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1BBF19C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <942be5837002d2b7f61512c1f1edce21@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:47:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) SMTP is free and liberal. Adding tokens or auth is trading this for temporary security. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:02:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:02:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23752 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:02:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23744 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:02:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:02:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9CB0719C43; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5CC919AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F150E19AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E996919ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:01:54 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I think the spam situation is making (at least some of) us a little crazed. The 9grid technique might work among cooperating plan 9 sites if we can figure out how to make the authentication require less effort by the site administrators. It's really easy when the authentication is set up; to deliver mail to user@machine, import -bp machine /mail/box mail user It just works. No SMTP involved, just local delivery. Thanks, Dave. For those who can't talk 9P, I'm trying the experiment of asking friends to also listen on an alternate port for SMTP; I'm already doing so. Once we get a few sites doing it, a few lines in rewrite can select the alternate port for those sites. I'm not publishing the port number in public, to discourage spamming. Mail arriving on the alternate port gets less scrutiny and eventually mail to port 25 might get tossed into a `probably crap' mailbox. Oh, there's a sick idea: revive UUCP over TCP. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:09:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:09:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23969 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:09:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23965 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:09:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:09:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B9A319C61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6969919AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:09:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35AB919ABC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B2DA19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h8OA8j4Z023553 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org (wynne-lap [10.34.17.20]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.5) with ESMTP id h8OA8fCV021447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F716D28.6050508@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam References: <52f1f026ba13b09b2715de2692589d8c@juice.thebigchoice.com> <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:08:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) They that give up liberty for safety deserve neither. --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:10:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:10:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23982 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:10:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23978 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:10:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:10:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A13019C92; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3454C19C16; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:10:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94EF419C21; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0884C19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2EE5866B4F; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam Message-ID: <20030924100942.GE834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <52f1f026ba13b09b2715de2692589d8c@juice.thebigchoice.com> <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:09:42 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 11:34:04AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > no way. what's that ben franklin quote about liberty and security? in my sig. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:16:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:16:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24183 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:16:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24179 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:16:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:16:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5955419ABB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E7CA19ABB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4097F19ABC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76E98199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3796077-14054>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:15:10 -0400 Message-ID: <018701c38284$234dc8a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309232306.h8NN6vj12318@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:10:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ... Google already has archives going back years; ... say hi to mike burrows from me rob. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:29:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:29:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24639 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:29:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24622 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:28:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:28:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D83A19C9E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D270919C01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:28:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 120B919B14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8CC619B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <802902-3107>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:27:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01a501c38285$de50bbc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F70BFCB.50401@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:23:15 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The item(s) can be seen in this photograph, in the lower center. > http://www.pacificcable.com/photos/BNC.jpg left to right you have: - unknown thing - f/f connector - t connector - terminator - f? crimpable connector foreground: - m pin - crimp cylinder (for the coax) - m BNC the foreground stuff is: get the coax, soldering iron, and crimp tool out. i like BNC's but they are a bitch to assemble by hand. god knows i've done enough of 'em. just don't say 'F connector'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 19:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 19:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25167 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25163 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E50119C5A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ADD519C28; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:51:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B556B19C47; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7528199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <01a501c38285$de50bbc0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:49:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) we've got appropriate bits in our cupboard and i'd send them too if i didn't suspect there must be someone closer to him that could do so. it seems more straightforward than all this DIY advice, however fascinating. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 20:14:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 20:14:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25785 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 20:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25781 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 20:14:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 20:14:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2631F19CA2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3944519ACA; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDD1819C49; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DF0D199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4399196-1075>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:12:54 -0400 Message-ID: <020a01c3828b$e0c6dd20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309240027.h8O0ROj12684@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:06:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > And use up a lot of memory.... Actually, everyone would use up a lot > of memory. Ick. something that would become altavista used this method. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 20:23:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 20:23:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26156 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 20:23:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26152 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 20:23:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 20:23:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2494519CA3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC35D19AB7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F20719A97; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76DEB19A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3785462-1081>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:21:03 -0400 Message-ID: <023101c3828c$dc7fc820$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:13:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > One useful trick, if you find dealing with the braid is a mess, > is to tin the braid before cutting. that's for sissies, 73 de VK2BHR. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 20:32:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 20:32:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26416 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 20:32:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26412 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 20:32:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 20:32:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51EAB19CA1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0286F19C43; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 356CF19C9E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5762719C43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3798388-14055>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:30:54 -0400 Message-ID: <025c01c3828e$235bede0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:22:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Just make sure the connector doesn't require the braid to be folded back > before you solder it, otherwise you'll just have to start all over. Also a > dental pick and small edge cutters are best for working with braid. but you forgot the essential M-203 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 21:10:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 21:10:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27371 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 21:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27367 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 21:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 21:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6904319CAF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E28D19C49; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82A2819BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB19619AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <803021-3108>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:09:19 -0400 Message-ID: <02af01c38293$235b5f60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <580ddc8b7111c39f7cd256e21b6a6508@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:58:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Am I thinkng wrong? yes. save _everything_. as it has been pointed out before various financial institutions are required by law to keep records for n years. anyway, disk is cheap. the old fileserver only copied the tree, with pointers to blocks, so an un-modified block would have one copy, but with multiple pointers. as for venti/fossil i can't say -- there's only so many thing a rounin can do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:01:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:01:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28913 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:01:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28909 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:01:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:01:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E08819BF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9FFC19AB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE5D819A99; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACC3A19AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@noviruses.snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fvkwejppvhilwdbjwdyeffiqwg" Subject: [9fans] virus rate & spline Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:00:20 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fvkwejppvhilwdbjwdyeffiqwg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In a silly mood about I decided to graph the virus reception rate here (attached). Its only been running since Friday afternoon and dips below zero and bounces back due to a network outage bringing the rate to zero and spline smooting this into a cubic curve; its not me sending them out, honest! In the process ported the V7 spline command (also attached) BTW our IT dep have a virus catching firewall which sends me an email telling me what its done, its these I am graphing. -Steve --upas-fvkwejppvhilwdbjwdyeffiqwg Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=spline.bundle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # To unbundle, run this file echo spline.1g sed 's/.//' >spline.1g <<'//GO.SYSIN DD spline.1g' -.TH SPLINE 1G -.SH NAME -spline \- interpolate smooth curve -.SH SYNOPSIS -.B spline -[-a \fBn\fR] [-k \fBn\fR] [-n \fBn\fR] [-p] [-x \fBlo hi\fR] [file...] -.SH DESCRIPTION -.I Spline -takes pairs of numbers from the standard input as abcissas and ordinates -of a function. -It produces a similar set, which -is approximately equally spaced and -includes the input set, on the standard output. -The cubic spline output -(R. W. Hamming, -.ft I -Numerical Methods for Scientists and Engineers, -.ft R -2nd ed., 349ff) -has two continuous derivatives, -and sufficiently many points to look smooth when plotted, for -example by -.IR graph (1). -.PP -The following options are recognized, -each as a separate argument. -.TP 5 -.B \-a -Supply abscissas automatically (they are missing from -the input); spacing is given by the next -argument, the default is 1. -.TP 5 -.B \-k -The constant -.IR k "" -used in the boundary value computation -.IP -.if n .ig -.ti +1.5i -.ds ' \h'-\w'\(fm\(fm'u' -.EQ -.nr 99 \n(.s -.nr 98 \n(.f -'ps 10 -.ft I -.ds 11 "y\(fm\(fm -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\*' -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -'ps 8 -.ds 13 "\fR0\fP -.nr 13 \w'\*(13' -.as 12 \v'18u'\s8\*(13\|\s10\v'-18u' -'ps 10 -.nr 12 \n(12+\n(13+\w'\s8\|' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|=\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "ky\(fm\(fm -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\*' -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -'ps 8 -.ds 13 "\fR1\fP -.nr 13 \w'\*(13' -.as 12 \v'18u'\s8\*(13\|\s10\v'-18u' -'ps 10 -.nr 12 \n(12+\n(13+\w'\s8\|' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 ", -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "y\(fm\(fm -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\*' -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -'ps 8 -.ds 13 "n -.nr 13 \w'\*(13' -.as 12 \v'18u'\s8\*(13\|\s10\v'-18u' -'ps 10 -.nr 12 \n(12+\n(13+\w'\s8\|' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|=\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\|\| -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "ky\(fm\(fm -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 12 "\*' -.nr 12 \w'\*(12' -'ps 8 -.ds 13 "n\|\(mi\|\fR1\fP -.nr 13 \w'\*(13' -.as 12 \v'18u'\s8\*(13\|\s10\v'-18u' -'ps 10 -.nr 12 \n(12+\n(13+\w'\s8\|' -.as 11 "\*(12 -.nr 11 \w'\*(11' -.ds 11 \x'0'\fI\*(11\s\n(99\f\n(98 -.ne 78u -\*(11 -'ps \n(99 -.ft \n(98 -.EN -.. -.if t .ig -.ce -(2nd deriv. at end) = k*(2nd deriv. next to end) -.. -.IP -.br -is set by the next argument. -By default -.IR k "" -= 0. -.TP 5 -.B \-n -Space output points -so that approximately -.I n -intervals occur between the lower and upper -.I x -limits. -(Default -.I n -= 100.) -.TP 5 -.B \-p -Make output periodic, i.e. match -derivatives at ends. -First and last input values should normally agree. -.TP 5 -.B \-x -Next -1 (or 2) arguments are lower (and upper) -.I x -limits. -Normally these limits are calculated from the data. -Automatic abcissas start at lower limit -(default 0). -.SH "SEE ALSO" -graph(1) -.SH DIAGNOSTICS -When data is not strictly monotone in -.I x, -.I spline -reproduces the input without interpolating extra points. -.SH BUGS -A limit of 1000 input points is enforced silently. //GO.SYSIN DD spline.1g echo spline.c sed 's/.//' >spline.c <<'//GO.SYSIN DD spline.c' -/* spline.c - curve smoothing ported from edition 7 source */ -#include -#include -#include - -#define NP 1000 /* max # of points read */ -#define INF 1.e37 /* default upper and lower limits */ - -struct proj { - int lbf, ubf; - float a, b, lb, ub, quant, mult, val[NP]; -} x, y; - -Biobuf bout; -float *diag, *r; -float dx = 1.0; -float ni = 100.0; -int n; -int auta; -int periodic; -float konst = 0.0; -float zero = 0.0; - -float rhs(int); -int spline(void); -void readin(Biobuf *bp); -int getlim(struct proj *); -void usage(void); - -float -rhs(int i) -{ - int i_; - double zz; - i_ = i == n - 1 ? 0 : i; - zz = (y.val[i] - y.val[i-1]) / (x.val[i] - x.val[i-1]); - return(6 * ((y.val[i_+1] - y.val[i_]) / (x.val[i+1] - x.val[i]) - zz)); -} - - -int -spline(void) -{ - float d, s, u, v, hi, hi1; - float h; - float D2yi, D2yi1, D2yn1, x0, x1, yy, a; - int end; - float corr; - int i, j, m; - if (n < 3) - return(0); - if (periodic) - konst = 0; - d = 1; - r[0] = 0; - s = periodic ? -1 : 0; - for (i = 0; ++i < n - !periodic; ) { /* triangularize */ - hi = x.val[i] - x.val[i-1]; - hi1 = i == n - 1 ? x.val[1] - x.val[0] : - x.val[i+1] - x.val[i]; - if (hi1 * hi <= 0) - return(0); - u = i == 1 ? zero : u - s * s / d; - v = i == 1 ? zero : v - s * r[i-1] / d; - r[i] = rhs(i) - hi * r[i-1] / d; - s = -hi * s / d; - a = 2 * (hi + hi1); - if (i == 1) - a += konst * hi; - if (i == n - 2) - a += konst * hi1; - diag[i] = d = i == 1 ? a : - a - hi * hi / d; - } - D2yi = D2yn1 = 0; - for (i = n - !periodic; --i >= 0; ) { /* back substitute */ - end = i == n - 1; - hi1 = end ? x.val[1] - x.val[0] : - x.val[i+1] - x.val[i]; - D2yi1 = D2yi; - if (i > 0) { - hi = x.val[i] - x.val[i-1]; - corr = end ? 2 * s + u : zero; - D2yi = (r[i] - hi1 * D2yi1 - s * D2yn1 + end * v) / - (diag[i] + corr); - if (end) - D2yn1 = D2yi; - if (i > 1) { - a = 2 * (hi + hi1); - if (i == 1) - a += konst * hi; - if (i == n - 2) - a += konst * hi1; - d = diag[i-1]; - s = -s * d / hi; - } - } else - D2yi = D2yn1; - - if (!periodic) { - if (i == 0) - D2yi = konst * D2yi1; - if (i == n - 2) - D2yi1 = konst * D2yi; - } - if (end) - continue; - m = (hi1 > 0) ? ni : -ni; - m = 1.001 * m * hi1 / (x.ub - x.lb); - if (m <= 0) - m = 1; - h = hi1 / m; - for (j = m; j > 0 || i == 0 && j == 0; j--) { /* interpolate */ - x0 = (m - j) * h / hi1; - x1 = j * h / hi1; - yy = D2yi * (x0 - x0 * x0 * x0) + D2yi1 * (x1 - x1 * x1 * x1); - yy = y.val[i] * x0 + y.val[i+1] * x1 - hi1 * hi1 * yy / 6; - Bprint(&bout, "%f ", x.val[i] + j * h); - Bprint(&bout, "%f\n", yy); - } - } - return(1); -} - - -void -readin(Biobuf *bp) -{ - char *p, *a[4]; - - for (n = 0; n < NP && (p = Brdline(bp, '\n')) != nil; n++){ - p[Blinelen(bp)-1] = 0; - if (tokenize(p, a, nelem(a)) == 0) - continue; - if (auta){ - x.val[n] = n * dx * x.lb; - y.val[n] = atof(a[0]); - } - else{ - x.val[n] = atof(a[0]); - y.val[n] = atof(a[1]); - } - } -} - - -getlim(struct proj *p) -{ - int i; - for (i = 0; i < n; i++) { - if (!p->lbf && p->lb > (p->val[i])) - p->lb = p->val[i]; - if (!p->ubf && p->ub < (p->val[i])) - p->ub = p->val[i]; - } -} - - -void -main(int argc, char *argv[]) -{ - int i; - Biobuf *bp, bin; - - x.lbf = x.ubf = y.lbf = y.ubf = 0; - x.lb = INF; - x.ub = -INF; - y.lb = INF; - y.ub = -INF; - - Binit(&bin, 0, OREAD); - Binit(&bout, 1, OWRITE); - - ARGBEGIN{ - case 'a': - auta = 1; - dx = atof(EARGF(usage())); - break; - case 'k': - konst = atof(EARGF(usage())); - break; - case 'n': - ni = atof(EARGF(usage())); - break; - case 'p': - periodic = 1; - break; - case 'x': - x.lbf = atof(EARGF(usage())); - x.ubf = atof(EARGF(usage())); - break; - - }ARGEND; - if (auta && !x.lbf) - x.lb = 0; - - if (argc == 0) - readin(&bin); - else - for(; argc--; argv++){ - if ((bp = Bopen(*argv, OREAD)) == nil){ - fprint(2, "%s: %s cannot open, %r", argv0, *argv); - continue; - } - readin(bp); - Bterm(bp); - } - - getlim(&x); - getlim(&y); - - if ((diag = malloc((n+1) * sizeof(dx))) == nil) - sysfatal("no memory"); - if ((r = malloc((n+1) * sizeof(dx))) == nil) - sysfatal("no memory"); - - if (spline() == 0) - for (i = 0; i < n; i++) { - Bprint(&bout, "%f ", x.val[i]); - Bprint(&bout, "%f\n", y.val[i]); - } - Bflush(&bout); - Bterm(&bout); - exits(0); -} - -void -usage(void) -{ - fprint(2, "usage: %s [-a n] [-k n] [-n n] [-p] [-x lo hi]\n", argv0); - exits("usage"); -} //GO.SYSIN DD spline.c --upas-fvkwejppvhilwdbjwdyeffiqwg Content-Type: image/gif Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=virus-rate.gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhZQJCArf/AAAAAAAARAAAiAAAzABEAABERABEiABEzACIAACIRACIiACIzADMAADM RADMiADMzADd3REREQAAVQAAmQAA3QBVAABVVQBMmQBJ3QCZAACZTACZmQCT3QDdAADdSQDd kwDungDu7iIiIgAAZgAAqgAA7gBmAABmZgBVqgBP7gCqAACqVQCqqgCe7gDuAADuTwD/VQD/ 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xW9+9btf/vbXv/8FcIAFPGACF9jAB0ZwghW8YAY32MEPhnCEIxwQADs= --upas-fvkwejppvhilwdbjwdyeffiqwg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:11:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:11:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29172 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:11:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29168 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:11:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:11:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C55BC19C37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60C6919C05; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4256019C01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CBA919AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8590771-7502>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:07:50 -0400 Message-ID: <035f01c3829a$20ebbac0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] upas/vf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:48:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >little of my system as possible, ala Boyd. à la ... > You should filter out viruses *before* they hit the Bayes because they can poison > your corpus with their "as legitimate as possible" message bodies. i have a beer-mat / coaster / back of the envelope design to kill 'em at the smtp level, which will 'learn' and fail 'safe'. actually, it's currently on both sides of a an A4 page, 1 metre from me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:11:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:11:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29185 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:11:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29181 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:11:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:11:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9855819C9F; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77FC319C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C6E819BFD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C3DD19AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <804433-3106>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:09:52 -0400 Message-ID: <036501c3829a$66c88e60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0204ac29b4d1ba1ee38dae790abdb279@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:50:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > touché > > touchy it means wounded/shot too. i wanna shoot these fools. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:16:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:16:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29301 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:16:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29296 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:16:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:16:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B1A019C01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F46619C05; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:16:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B95D19ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9665019AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8587888-7506>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:15:06 -0400 Message-ID: <038001c3829a$fe10e380$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:54:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > import -bp machine /mail/box > mail user ooh, i _like_ unorthodox solutions. i'll do it, with dans' net in ny. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:27:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:27:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29531 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:27:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29527 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:27:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:27:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FDCE19C98; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 237EF19ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:27:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 727B719AC6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B38719AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3688090-17797>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:25:58 -0400 Message-ID: <038a01c3829c$71e8d820$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <52f1f026ba13b09b2715de2692589d8c@juice.thebigchoice.com> <00f601c3827e$ff10ff20$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F716D28.6050508@place.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:04:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > They that give up liberty for safety deserve neither. --Benjamin Franklin yup that's it, donc je refuse de ne pas publier mon vrai mél. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:30:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:30:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29605 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:30:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29601 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:30:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:30:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B1B719CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45AE519AEB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:30:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFDC419AEB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C64019AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a7b608c1640a44a421d63fceec839f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <038a01c3829c$71e8d820$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:29:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Sep 24 09:27:49 EDT 2003, boyd@insultant.net wrote: > > They that give up liberty for safety deserve neither. --Benjamin Franklin > Sounds like the opposite of the current US policy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:32:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:32:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29650 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:32:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29646 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:32:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:32:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6879519CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47DA419CA3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:32:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDB9F19CA3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B56F19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f3aba6f6d08c39b9104e0210b77c9de@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: <9a7b608c1640a44a421d63fceec839f3@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:31:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Wed Sep 24 09:27:49 EDT 2003, boyd@insultant.net wrote: >> > They that give up liberty for safety deserve neither. --Benjamin Franklin >> > > Sounds like the opposite of the current US policy. T-shirt? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:35:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:35:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29709 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:35:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29705 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:35:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:35:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C44FA19CA3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D71E519CA3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB8D519CB4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 598BC19CA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <5f3aba6f6d08c39b9104e0210b77c9de@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:34:18 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I think the t-shirt would need a bush or rumsfeld quote to match the franklin one. I'll let you find it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 22:38:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 22:38:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29762 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 22:38:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29758 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 22:38:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 22:38:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDFC019CCB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C847919C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C782819C47; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA3B019A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b9270241715642750a17cbd0d92533e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <038001c3829a$fe10e380$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:36:10 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > import -bp machine /mail/box > mail user a disadvantage of this approach is that without more work it makes visible the names of all users on machine, details of their mail boxes, and the contents of its /mail/lib and /mail/queue* (not to mention /mail/tmp). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:02:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:02:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30348 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:02:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30344 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:02:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:02:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31EFA19C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D87619AC6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:02:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC14819C4D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E767819AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <803031-3105>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:01:02 -0400 Message-ID: <03b901c382a1$1af33d80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:38:12 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hell, i'd fly there and do it if someone would pick up the airfare. spent a lotta time with RG-58/BNC/F/SO-259/PL-259/N-connectors/vampire taps ... that SWR will ruin your whole day(s). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:13:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:13:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30708 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:13:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30704 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:13:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:13:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 608E619CC6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E7E319A97; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49C0319B50; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6740A19A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] permission bit of /mail/box From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <018701c38284$234dc8a0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:14:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ... Google already has archives going back years; ... unless you want to see the attachments From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:21:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:21:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30905 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:21:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30901 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:21:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:21:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D51C419A97; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F10919AA7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6963F19AB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6203E19A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OEKXXx022407 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:20:33 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OEKWDl029000 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:20:32 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OEKW7W011599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:20:32 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <038001c3829a$fe10e380$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:20:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > import -bp machine /mail/box > > mail user > > ooh, i _like_ unorthodox solutions. > > i'll do it, with dans' net in ny. it works wonderfully well. acme mail from an imported /mail/box is fantastic to use. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:27:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:27:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31063 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:27:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31059 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:27:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:27:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 575C319CD5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27A8C19CBD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:27:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34492199E5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9498A199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 7ED553939; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 26E0D3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bumblebeeman.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.94]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1139.199.98.16.94.1064413209.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin said: > not @sdgm.net > > good idea - ignore ignorethispart in my address. when email address trawlers can filter out all the user@SPAMTRAP.domain, have they passed the turing test? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:30:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:30:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31109 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:30:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31105 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:30:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:30:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3622719CDD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1BE119CC5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C41B219CBD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEE5B199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OET8Xx025310 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:08 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OET7o3000469 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:07 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OET57W011891 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:05 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: <7b9270241715642750a17cbd0d92533e@caldo.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > import -bp machine /mail/box > > mail user > > a disadvantage of this approach is that without more work it makes > visible the names of all users on machine, details of their mail > boxes, and the contents of its /mail/lib and /mail/queue* > (not to mention /mail/tmp). if you can import it, you can already cpu to the machine. I'm not sure it's an issue. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:31:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:31:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31134 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31130 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:31:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 913C919CE5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58BDF19CE2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A585F19CBD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF4F5199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <805388-3108>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:29:37 -0400 Message-ID: <041301c382a4$45bf05a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:00:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think the t-shirt would need a bush or rumsfeld quote to match the franklin one. > I'll let you find it. oh, there's a heap of 'em in _task force dagger_ which i'm reading now. There will be times of swift, dramatic action. There will be times of steady, quiet progress. Over time, with patience and precision, the terrorists will be persued. The will be isolated, surrounded, cornered, until there is no place to run or to hide. -- little george, oct 11 2001 take your pick. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:35:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:35:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31179 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:35:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31175 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:35:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:35:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3060219CED; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 814BA19CD8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3E9619CD8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21E5519CBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8591179-7506>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:33:56 -0400 Message-ID: <041e01c382a4$c4c50700$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <03b901c382a1$1af33d80$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] An Apollo Night Cap. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:04:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ... SO-259 ... merde. SO-239. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:37:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:37:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31249 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:37:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31243 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:37:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:37:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4FAC19CE2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1255A19CD8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:37:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97BFA19CE3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B2019CD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 06D833939; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id BC3C13937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bumblebeeman.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.94]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1161.199.98.16.94.1064413817.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <035f01c3829a$20ebbac0$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <035f01c3829a$20ebbac0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] upas/vf From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin said: > i have a beer-mat / coaster / back of the envelope design to kill 'em > at the smtp level, which will 'learn' and fail 'safe'. > > actually, it's currently on both sides of a an A4 page, 1 metre from me. > Can you post/link to/describe it? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:41:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:41:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31337 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31333 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C15CA19CF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4FB219CD8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:41:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 95A3C19CE2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C132F19CD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <292230-14059>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:40:11 -0400 Message-ID: <042401c382a5$9d7dfc00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7b9270241715642750a17cbd0d92533e@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:10:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a disadvantage of this approach is that without more work it makes > visible the names of all users on machine, details of their mail > boxes, and the contents of its /mail/lib and /mail/queue* > (not to mention /mail/tmp). well yeah, but if it's all owned by upas and stuff owned by none is append+write only other the worst (i think) is that someone will fill up /mail -- which they are already doing. kill 'em at the smtp level. it'd even work on lunix. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Sep 24 23:46:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Sep 24 23:46:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31399 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Sep 2003 23:46:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31395 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 23:46:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 23:46:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B00819CFA; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1647319C50; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:46:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AF3319C50; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6B36E19A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 93386 invoked by uid 66); 24 Sep 2003 14:45:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 30502 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 14:42:24 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 14:42:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 29683 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Sep 2003 14:42:24 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86n0cujlin.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:42:24 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I've installed a terminal which bootes from my fileserver. I login as glenda and all works as expected but =AB9fs dump=BB. 9fs dump gives me: mount: mount /n/dump: attach -- unknow user or failed authetication mount: mount /n/dump/: '/n/dump' does not exist If I login on the same cpu server with drawterm (bootet from fs), 9fs dump works. What do I missing? Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:01:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:01:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31791 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:01:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31787 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:01:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:01:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0A3019CCB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 684F919BFC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2438219C0A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E494D19BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 93857 invoked by uid 66); 24 Sep 2003 15:01:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 30582 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 14:57:46 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Sep 2003 14:57:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 30645 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Sep 2003 14:57:46 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86isnijkt1.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Hardware for CPU server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:57:46 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, after playing with old hardware and VMWare I would like to by hardware for a standalone cpu/auth server. My network will not be very big, somthing like 5-10 terminals/users for reading mail and editing some text. Fanless, low power consumtion hardware would be nice but adequate speed is more important. What processor and how much RAM should I choose? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:06:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:06:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31916 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:06:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31912 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:06:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:06:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7BA119CBC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A385819B29; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C40AF19BFC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 344A419B29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41d0e73f3d3025ea52a231b85f086ade@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: <041301c382a4$45bf05a0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:05:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> I think the t-shirt would need a bush or rumsfeld quote to match the franklin > one. >> I'll let you find it. > > oh, there's a heap of 'em in _task force dagger_ which i'm reading now. > > There will be times of swift, dramatic action. There will be times > of steady, quiet progress. Over time, with patience and precision, > the terrorists will be persued. The will be isolated, surrounded, > cornered, until there is no place to run or to hide. > > -- little george, oct 11 2001 not everybody can wear a XXL T-shirt. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:14:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:14:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32219 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:14:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32197 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:14:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:14:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D809019BFC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66E8519C71; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DB0119BFC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54E7C19CC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <293596-14059>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:12:09 -0400 Message-ID: <043b01c382a9$fbb2f880$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] virus rate & spline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:41:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) in some failsafe mode i was delivering all the spams into an audit log style mail file [thanks dave]. in one day it hit 50Mb, so now i'm just auditing the 822 headers. it forced me to write the rather crude zero: http://www.insultant.net/code/plan9/zero i have my own version of pipeto.sample From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:24:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:24:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32467 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:24:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32463 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:24:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:24:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD2ED19CE5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83F3919BB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8404A19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A046F19C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3787365-26921>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:22:07 -0400 Message-ID: <045801c382ab$139bc520$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:49:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it works wonderfully well. acme mail from an imported /mail/box is > fantastic to use. as i've said before, i can't cope with acme, but /bin/mail works great, since i got spamoff to keep the infidels out of my mail file. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:25:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:25:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32504 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:25:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32500 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:25:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AB3B19CF7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F04919C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B89D319BB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE3AA19CB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <292002-14051>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:23:35 -0400 Message-ID: <046001c382ab$40e258a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> <1139.199.98.16.94.1064413209.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:50:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > good idea - ignore ignorethispart in my address. nope, mail boyd@sdgm.net and see. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:26:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:26:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32548 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:26:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32544 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:26:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:26:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E19A919CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA05819C47; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B730A19BB1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF2DE19A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <803036-3120>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:24:56 -0400 Message-ID: <046601c382ab$672062a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:51:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if you can import it, you can already cpu to the machine. I'm not sure > it's an issue. i'm with you, captain ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:27:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:27:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32562 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:27:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32558 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:27:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:27:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB1C219D00; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1362119CF8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C8B519CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.38.126.forward.012.net.il [80.179.38.126]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9A0819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (deva [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8OFM05f011805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:01 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8OFLuMf011798 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309241521.h8OFLuMf011798@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] virus filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) As BWK once said, "Let someone else do the hard part." I just called my ISP. For a mere $2 a month, *they* will filter out the viruses etc. I deduct those expenses, and the time I don't have to spend putting a filter in place is worth the cost. So, thought I'd pass that idea along. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:29:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:29:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32582 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:29:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32578 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:29:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:29:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FB7319D0B; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B586019C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1FF8F19C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0582819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8OFYku05625; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:34:46 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] virus filtering (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:34:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Somebody with a clue...I salute them! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] virus filtering As BWK once said, "Let someone else do the hard part." I just called my ISP. For a mere $2 a month, *they* will filter out the viruses etc. I deduct those expenses, and the time I don't have to spend putting a filter in place is worth the cost. So, thought I'd pass that idea along. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32675 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32671 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:33:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18B0919CE2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A7B219A89; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 367A019A0D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0662E199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8592716-7511>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: <047801c382ac$2a1c7640$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <035f01c3829a$20ebbac0$b9844051@insultant.net> <1161.199.98.16.94.1064413817.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] upas/vf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:57:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Can you post/link to/describe it? i can, but it might be described as too 'crude' and we wouldn't want that ... and there will be no more mvs fiascos. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:36:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:36:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32722 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:36:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32718 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:36:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:36:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B80219CEB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F008119BAC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8006719BF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CC1619A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:37:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> > import -bp machine /mail/box >> > mail user >> >> a disadvantage of this approach is ... > > if you can import it, you can already cpu to the machine. I'm not sure > it's an issue. if you can cpu to the machine then why not utilise that machines smtp system which respects the users pipefrom and other configuration options ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:38:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:38:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32747 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:38:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32743 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:38:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:38:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A56D619CEC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B69A19A0D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7544B19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EC7719A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ac6d3427c7888cc91d2228bca0c6aa9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] virus filtering In-Reply-To: <200309241521.h8OFLuMf011798@skeeve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very good point. --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Sep 24 11:27:15 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Sep 24 11:27:13 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 121DF19D04; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9D3F19C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C8B519CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.38.126.forward.012.net.il [80.179.38.126]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9A0819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (deva [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8OFM05f011805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:01 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8OFLuMf011798 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309241521.h8OFLuMf011798@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] virus filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) As BWK once said, "Let someone else do the hard part." I just called my ISP. For a mere $2 a month, *they* will filter out the viruses etc. I deduct those expenses, and the time I don't have to spend putting a filter in place is worth the cost. So, thought I'd pass that idea along. Arnold --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:39:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:39:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32755 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:39:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32751 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:39:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:39:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29AA119D16; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C6C819C37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:39:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 167CE19C37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3313C19C88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <688029-3121>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:21 -0400 Message-ID: <048e01c382ac$a9334080$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <41d0e73f3d3025ea52a231b85f086ade@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:00:34 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > not everybody can wear a XXL T-shirt. i said: take your pick [of any of the sentences] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:40:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:40:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 317 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:40:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 313 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:40:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:40:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E8C019D1F; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5470E19D12; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:40:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18F6719D0E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7496E19C71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1076eb63f3a5aaf38270d02a9cc1d15a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] virus filtering From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <4ac6d3427c7888cc91d2228bca0c6aa9@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lnmuzvknkhvnhhztxrynswoilc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:39:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lnmuzvknkhvnhhztxrynswoilc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Except that my ISP is our gov and they're not too receptive to accepting more work to do :-) couldn't resist. --upas-lnmuzvknkhvnhhztxrynswoilc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Sep 24 17:38:27 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B87819D0C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B69A19A0D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7544B19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EC7719A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ac6d3427c7888cc91d2228bca0c6aa9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] virus filtering In-Reply-To: <200309241521.h8OFLuMf011798@skeeve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very good point. --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Sep 24 11:27:15 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Sep 24 11:27:13 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 121DF19D04; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9D3F19C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C8B519CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.38.126.forward.012.net.il [80.179.38.126]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9A0819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (deva [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8OFM05f011805 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:01 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8OFLuMf011798 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309241521.h8OFLuMf011798@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] virus filtering Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:21:56 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) As BWK once said, "Let someone else do the hard part." I just called my ISP. For a mere $2 a month, *they* will filter out the viruses etc. I deduct those expenses, and the time I don't have to spend putting a filter in place is worth the cost. So, thought I'd pass that idea along. Arnold --upas-doaosfolnuqfjyeprcurlywynt-- --upas-lnmuzvknkhvnhhztxrynswoilc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:42:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:42:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 445 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:42:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 440 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:42:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:42:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BAAC19D20; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2976019D11; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E290C19D11; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A0D419C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 277A7393B; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id B89C1393A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from discostu.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.57]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2337.199.98.17.57.1064417750.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <046001c382ab$40e258a0$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> <1139.199.98.16.94.1064413209.squirrel@wish> <046001c382ab$40e258a0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Either you're a spammer or I don't like you or I don't know you. Cute. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:55:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:55:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 645 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:55:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 641 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:55:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:55:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E9AC19CF8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 190E119A93; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:55:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAE6319BD7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E613D19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3786781-26922>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: <04d001c382ae$540a7e00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <56217.135.214.42.68.1064343405.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <00c001c3827d$52423760$b9844051@insultant.net> <1139.199.98.16.94.1064413209.squirrel@wish> <046001c382ab$40e258a0$b9844051@insultant.net> <2337.199.98.17.57.1064417750.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] hardest hit ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:12:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Either you're a spammer or I don't like you or I don't know you. so, do it and i might 'like you' :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 00:57:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 00:57:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 686 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 00:57:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 682 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 00:57:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 00:57:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F26A619D19; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D1BE19D03; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:57:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 625F919D06; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A80119D03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OFuNXx028102 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:56:23 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OFuNDl011818 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:56:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OFuN7W015945 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:56:23 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:56:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > if you can cpu to the machine then why not utilise that machines smtp > system which respects the users pipefrom and other configuration options > ? this discussion has come full circle. The whole point of what we're doing is to try out an SMTP-free mail system. I don't want anonymous messages (99% of which are spam at this point) even darkening my door. If you are filtering them, you've already lost (in my view anyway). I don't want to take part in the filter wars. I don't want their messages in my pipeto. I want them locked out. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:09:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:09:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 868 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:09:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 864 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:09:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:09:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD6E819D15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AF1F19CF7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24BBE19CB5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FFE719C80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <802989-3122>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:24 -0400 Message-ID: <04ef01c382b0$39f94bc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:26:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't want to take part in the filter wars. I don't want their messages > in my pipeto. I want them locked out. yeah! no more smtp, just import from people you like. 'local' delivery. simple solution and it will 'raise the bar' a lot, until they see that 9p is in the clear. then we go to styx. well the auth ain't, and they can hijack the tcp connection and as soon as they do that we go to styx. fuck 'em. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:15:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:15:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1036 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:15:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1032 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:15:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:15:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4B4719D09; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A55FF19C98; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FC0E19ABC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B4C519A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A2CDk-0001hU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:10:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "S.Nikhil" Message-ID: Organization: Lucent Technologies Subject: [9fans] not able to pull Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:10:18 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi, when i do replica/pull i get error saying connection timed out. cpu% replica/pull /dist/replica/network srv: timeout establishing connection to tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com!9fs bind: /n/sources/plan9: '/n/sources/plan9' does not exist servermount: bind 2119: bind cpu% echo 'tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com!9fs' | ndb/csquery > /net/tcp/clone 204.178.31.8!564 > cpu% but i am able to ping sources.cs.bell-labs.com cpu% ip/ping sources.cs.bell-labs.com sending 32 64 byte messages 1000 ms apart 0: rtt 347701 us, avg rtt 347701 us, ttl = 238 1: rtt 348336 us, avg rtt 348336 us, ttl = 238 i am behind the firewall. is this a problem ? if yes then what ports should be enabled on the firewall to make pull work ? thanks and regards devaraj From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:19:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:19:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1110 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:19:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1106 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:19:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:19:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5220E19D1D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F208119A12; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:19:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B709219A12; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2527519BF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] not able to pull In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:18:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You need to allow outgoing connections to port 564 (9fs) and 567 (ticket). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:31:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:31:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1369 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:31:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1365 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:31:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:31:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA03D19CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49B9219AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A1B919AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F026F19AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <04ef01c382b0$39f94bc0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jhfgoxrqjyuidwlhzwuetctgcu" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jhfgoxrqjyuidwlhzwuetctgcu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 9p needn't be in the clear, and i thought exportfs defaulted to rc4_256 sha1 --upas-jhfgoxrqjyuidwlhzwuetctgcu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A2CCt-00025G-3x; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:09:35 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A2CCt-00025G-3x for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:09:35 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD6E819D15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AF1F19CF7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24BBE19CB5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FFE719C80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <802989-3122>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:08:24 -0400 Message-ID: <04ef01c382b0$39f94bc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:26:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't want to take part in the filter wars. I don't want their messages > in my pipeto. I want them locked out. yeah! no more smtp, just import from people you like. 'local' delivery. simple solution and it will 'raise the bar' a lot, until they see that 9p is in the clear. then we go to styx. well the auth ain't, and they can hijack the tcp connection and as soon as they do that we go to styx. fuck 'em. --upas-jhfgoxrqjyuidwlhzwuetctgcu-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:43:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:43:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1494 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:43:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1490 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:43:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:43:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C3B419CC6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF53019ABC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2CD019B50; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C719119AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8593672-7513>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:42:02 -0400 Message-ID: <051601c382b4$97d13420$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:57:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) why RC4? wht not RC5? ITAR? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1636 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:49:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1632 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:49:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:49:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C92619CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6021819AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86DD919AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD85819A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc0m6.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.2.198] helo=acm.org) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2Coi-0005VX-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3F716844.2050005@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; NetBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030726 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:47:48 +0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here is my wishlist: 1. get a static IP address 2. host my own mail service 3. have the ability to reject incoming mail based on: 3.1 size 3.2 attachment type, if any 3.3 reg. expr. match of sender/recipient 4. bayseian filter on anything that gets through -- not automatically reject these, but flag them for possible wholesale deletion of suspected messages This would save me a lot of time, considering the latest rash of mail-from-microsoft, and I couldn't cuss brain-damaged, inflexible ISP filtering any more. A lot depends on one's definition of "spam." Don From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 01:51:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 01:51:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1709 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1705 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 01:51:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75F3219D0C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D23F719AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 176FC19BD7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3615C19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <592a8d84cc69f89ccf4656c86ce81229@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@noviruses.snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ncpfs obscure bugfix Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Fixed a bug that caused ncpfs to suicide (is anyone is using it?) It dies if you do a read _starting_ beyond EOF. I will put an updated copy on my website in a day or so. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 02:11:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 02:11:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2061 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 02:11:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2057 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 02:11:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 02:11:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32BA419BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DADE19ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:11:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46E7019AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39ECC19A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:12:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > this discussion has come full circle. The whole point of what we're doing > is to try out an SMTP-free mail system. I don't want anonymous messages I thought the point of the CPUing was to cut out the anonymous messages > I don't want their messages in my pipeto. I want them locked out. my point was that once you've the them through the gate via CPU/import then they should use the normal channels to continue to deliver the message, not have write access to some mailbox file. Unless, of course, you are proposing to drop the RFC 2822 format ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 02:18:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 02:18:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2176 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 02:18:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2172 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 02:18:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 02:18:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A9F519CA2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80FDE19BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:18:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F258119BE5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E78F819BA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OHH9Xx021424 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:17:09 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OHH8Dl021104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:17:09 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8OHH67W019476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:17:06 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:17:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > I thought the point of the CPUing was to cut out the anonymous messages CPUing and running acme is painful. Importing /mail/box is delightful. rno From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 02:20:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 02:20:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2192 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 02:20:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2188 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 02:20:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 02:20:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E94EA19CCE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42A1D19BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 685EB19BD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E47D19ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b5999db62bf601960ff0c0104927d56@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu subject: re: [9fans] spam From: Charles Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:18:55 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>yeah! no more smtp, just import from people you like. even people you like might not like you enough to want to give you access to more than you need to send mail to a specified user (and it's not necessarily true that just because you can import you can cpu). one approach is to have a service that presents a mail-sending name space through which mail can be sent, and the name space can then be exported, with authentication. it also insulates sender and recipient from detailed knowledge of current mbox conventions. for reading mail, import seems fine, because given authentication it's presumably the owner (or someone authorised by the owner) that's reading it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 03:25:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 03:25:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3729 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 03:25:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3724 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 03:25:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 03:25:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B5ED19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1406619BD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2F0019B6D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8F1D199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <299103-14056>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:24:01 -0400 Message-ID: <054a01c382c2$491fe840$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F716844.2050005@acm.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:35:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) here is my smtp level spam killer idea. we need some terms first: Pok = probability that it's ok to deliver Pspam = means spam Pgood = some value <= Pspam i think Pspam = 1 - Pok and Pok == 0.001 [1/1000, 1 message in a 1000] Pbip = probability of a bad IP address Pbm = probability of a bad sender/address/message [MAIL FROM <...>] so then we need a black and a white list (per user or global or a mix). these must be small, otherwise we have a 9 mil round in the foot. black list: seeded with a small number of open smtp relays/whatever IP addresses [dotted quads] which a human can administer. white list: seeded with a small number (or none) people you 'like' which a human can administer. both lists are a key/value pair. the key is the dotted quad or the person you like. the value is a number. so as soon as we get the MAIL FROM we calculate [dc follows]: Pbip Pbm * Pbip Pbm * 1 Pbip - 1 Pbm - * + / and we call that Pgood and if the result is: > Pspam it gets returned <= Pspam it gets delivered now, before you say 'division by zero': - iff the IP address is not found Pok is returned - iff the 'person' you like is not found Pok is returned Pbip = 1 1 n / - iff n > 1 Pbm = 1/n iff n > 1 0 means 'not found' and in this and all other cases Pok is returned. if you've got this far then the interesting stuff happens: law 1: it MUST fail safe a message that has Pgood <= Pspam gets delivered and 2 things happen when the Pgood is evaluated: 1) Pgood > Pspam : 'bad' dotted quads have their n++ 2) Pgood <= Pspam : good 'people's have there n++, ['bad' dotted quads could have their n---] well it's more than that, 'cos you can say in the case where Pgood > Pspam that the dotted quad is _automatically_ added to the black list. using these techniques i believe it can 'learn'. when Pgood > Pspam we kill 'em, potentially auditing the transaction, BUT also sending a reply (iirc MAIL FROM <> is for that) so they can say i'm not a T [bad guy] in a form that a machine/program could not (or it would take a significant effort defeat). this is the moat. the filter is the castle walls. i would more than appreciate mail of the form: boyd, you fuckhead, you overlooked this case this stuff is hard. i know what i know, but; i'm just a small town white boy tryin' ta make ends meet going back to 'law 1' any 'spam' must be saved in an easily retrievable form; upas/deliver can do this. but it's double edged sword, but disk is cheap. the purpose is to get the machine to do '1 shot 1 kill', so you don't wind up with a bunch of shit to sift through. voilà (c) Boyd Roberts (All Rights Reserved) ps. i blame it all on 4 hours sleep, new 'zep DVD and red -- Kashmir!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 03:34:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 03:34:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3866 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 03:34:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3862 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 03:34:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 03:34:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 781CC19BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31B9C19BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A091E19C0A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8550A19BFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3790664-26920>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:31:53 -0400 Message-ID: <055901c382c3$41f7d360$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:42:40 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ... you are proposing to drop the RFC 2822 format ? yes. it should be sliced to pieces. only good thing about it is that groups used to smash µSloth UAs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 03:36:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 03:36:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3926 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 03:36:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3922 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 03:36:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 03:36:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C041319C9D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F13219ADB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CACC819C91; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B711619C48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <300118-14052>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <056501c382c3$73c304a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:44:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Importing /mail/box is delightful. i'm with you captain ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 03:38:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 03:38:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4000 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 03:38:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3996 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 03:38:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 03:38:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81F0319CEB; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D01319C3E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:38:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8954D19CB8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D89019C85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <295187-5468>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:36:41 -0400 Message-ID: <056b01c382c3$c23395a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1b5999db62bf601960ff0c0104927d56@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:46:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > even people you like might not like you enough to want to give you > access to more than you need to send mail to a specified user (and > it's not necessarily true that just because you can import you can > cpu). yada, yada, yada. can i have my DES back that runs in vita's inferno? maybe i don't want vita to use it anymore. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 03:52:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 03:52:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4220 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 03:52:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4215 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 03:52:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 03:52:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6563E19A97; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C8A31998C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A05A19C3E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2FDF19ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id A9B253939; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 4493F3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from duffman.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.56]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1124.199.98.17.56.1064429119.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <054a01c382c2$491fe840$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <3F716844.2050005@acm.org> <054a01c382c2$491fe840$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > here is my smtp level spam killer idea. Sound good to me. I can't use it myself, though - my account here at cooper is accessed either via pine or squirelmail :-( I'm trying to get approval to install p9 on an old machine, and if that works I'll try boyd's idea or the bayes scripts, but classes don't leave much time for playing. Sigh.. Big thank you to boyd, russ, nemo, and anyone else who is working on spam obliteration. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:04:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:04:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4416 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:04:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4412 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:04:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:04:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82A9019CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C45A19AC9; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:04:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EF9119B77; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 333FA19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <299404-14052>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:02:19 -0400 Message-ID: <059a01c382c6$bbe3a660$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F716844.2050005@acm.org> <054a01c382c2$491fe840$b9844051@insultant.net> <1124.199.98.17.56.1064429119.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:07:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Big thank you to boyd, russ, nemo, and anyone else who is working on spam > obliteration. when i was on good terms with vix ('cos we talked a lot about it, until i flamed some 'old family' prick in boston) his EBGP spam killer was cool. but the DNS and blendmail (sic) have gone to shit since it was delegated to lesser mortals -- that stuff is hard. and, as Van Halen say: you can't get this stuff no more From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:24:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:24:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4760 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:24:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4756 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:24:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:24:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A72F19C69; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B83E319ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC6B619B96; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 442B519A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8OJNHj16647 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309241923.h8OJNHj16647@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:47:13 EDT." <942be5837002d2b7f61512c1f1edce21@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:23:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > SMTP is free and liberal. So is dog shit. > Adding tokens or auth is trading this for temporary security. No, it's solving the problem the only way it can be solved. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:35:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:35:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4998 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:35:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4994 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:35:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:35:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1330F19CC8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 430FD19C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:35:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D206919C61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 317E119BD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18004 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8OJYDj16686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309241934.h8OJYDj16686@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:01:54 PDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:34:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > For those who can't talk 9P, I'm trying the experiment of asking > friends to also listen on an alternate port for SMTP; I'm already > doing so. Once we get a few sites doing it, a few lines in rewrite > can select the alternate port for those sites. I'm not publishing the > port number in public, to discourage spamming. Mail arriving on the > alternate port gets less scrutiny and eventually mail to port 25 might > get tossed into a `probably crap' mailbox. This will work for a time, but it's just a bandaid.... > Oh, there's a sick idea: revive UUCP over TCP. It's been done. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:41:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:41:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5247 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5243 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF95219CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B53D19C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:41:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1476A19C7D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71B7819C34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19270 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8OJeZj16764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309241940.h8OJeZj16764@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:34:18 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) How about a characture of Rumsfeld throwing rocks at kids on Halloween? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:52:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:52:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5520 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:52:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5515 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:52:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:52:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 392B519BD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADD8919AD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:52:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1487419C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33ADC19AD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55273108 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 -0000 Message-ID: <05e501c382cd$52c8be20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F716844.2050005@acm.org> <054a01c382c2$491fe840$b9844051@insultant.net> <1124.199.98.17.56.1064429119.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:52:04 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > obliteration? i'm thinkin' along the lines of an MC-130 gunship ... http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/socom/sof-ref-2-1/SOFREF_Ch5.htm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:52:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:52:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5527 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:52:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5523 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:52:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:52:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE04E19CE7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AB1119CD4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:52:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2275519AD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3538019B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 54588265 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 19:51:32 -0000 Message-ID: <05e401c382cd$529f8b40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:50:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what's the longest, physical distance drawterm connection? prizes from /dev/null From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 04:59:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 04:59:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5642 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 04:59:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5638 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:59:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:59:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F197719C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F4C919ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CE6819B22; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFA4919A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 28F2CCD70; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:58:41 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Message-ID: <20030924195841.GC23885@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <05e401c382cd$529f8b40$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05e401c382cd$529f8b40$b9844051@insultant.net> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:58:41 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 08:50:21PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > what's the longest, physical distance drawterm connection? > > prizes from /dev/null Let's see, my keyboard cable is 6 feet long, my arms plus fingers are about 32 inches... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 05:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 05:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5728 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 05:02:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5724 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 05:02:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 05:02:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B5F919CEC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76CA419CA6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00DFD19C82; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B78A119BFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8OK7cv08436 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:07:38 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: <05e401c382cd$529f8b40$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:07:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > what's the longest, physical distance drawterm connection? > > prizes from /dev/null How far is it from Austin, TX to the Czech Republic (not sure where)? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 05:12:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 05:12:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6020 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 05:12:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6016 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 05:12:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 05:12:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 427F719CF0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75CB719CA6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:12:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04EDB19CA2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F94319A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5573991 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 20:11:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 20:11:05 -0000 Message-ID: <060701c382cf$c90699c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309241940.h8OJeZj16764@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:12:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How about a characture of Rumsfeld throwing rocks at kids on Halloween? come on, dan, he's an old guy. give him a chance. it'd be fair fight if he had an M-79 :) and they'd probably chop him to pieces with a MAC-10 :) :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 05:33:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 05:33:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6672 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 05:33:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6668 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 05:33:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 05:33:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B204719BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BCCC19C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2F9F19BDC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2E8A19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:32:10 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > >> what's the longest, physical distance drawterm connection? >> >> prizes from /dev/null > > How far is it from Austin, TX to the Czech Republic (not sure where)? > two entries: from: Latitude = 42º08'N Longitude = 024º48'E to: Latitude = 51°04' N Longitude = 114°08' W and: from: Latitude = 42º08'N Longitude = 024º48'E to: Latitude = 35° 53N Longitude = 106° 40W i have a different trivia question -- "What's the longest running drawterm session that actually was doing something?" my entry is 6 days, running a graphical demo full-screen on a freebsd box. the machine ran out of memory at the end :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 05:40:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 05:40:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6748 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 05:40:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6744 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 05:40:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 05:40:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3637419CE5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6158819C80; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:40:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D75E819C01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A359F19AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8OKjHF09383 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:45:17 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:45:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > i have a different trivia question -- "What's the longest running > drawterm session that actually was doing something?" If you count testing purposes then about two weeks and it was taken down manually and intentionally. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 05:54:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 05:54:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6927 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 05:54:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6923 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 05:54:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 05:54:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AD9819CF8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 517E019BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E29FC19BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1454519AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55599617 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 20:53:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 20:53:03 -0000 Message-ID: <061f01c382d5$55a30da0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:52:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How far is it from Austin, TX to the Czech Republic (not sure where)? i'll see your 'not sure where' and raise you 5849 klicks. btw: it's great circles in klicks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 06:35:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 06:35:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7617 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 06:35:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7613 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:35:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:35:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9F5319C9F; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4F3119C07; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E89419BF5; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 562A219B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11344 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8OLYnj17238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309242134.h8OLYnj17238@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:04 MDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ron minnich writes: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > > import -bp machine /mail/box > > > mail user > > > > a disadvantage of this approach is that without more work it makes > > visible the names of all users on machine, details of their mail > > boxes, and the contents of its /mail/lib and /mail/queue* > > (not to mention /mail/tmp). > > if you can import it, you can already cpu to the machine. I'm not sure > it's an issue. To do it on a larger scale, where you may not trust everyone who wants to send you mail to cpu into your machine, it is. I might want someone to send me mail without logging into my machine. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 06:50:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 06:50:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7844 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 06:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7840 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:50:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:50:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4B5819B15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E1F319B14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D8E619B15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29C6119AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <891608626012563549e908139052de7d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <7b9270241715642750a17cbd0d92533e@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:49:45 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a disadvantage of this approach is that without more work it makes > visible the names of all users on machine, details of their mail > boxes, and the contents of its /mail/lib and /mail/queue* (not to > mention /mail/tmp). this would be true if we imported /mail, but my (working) example is: > import -bp machine /mail/box which reveals much less. > one approach is to have a service that presents a mail-sending name > space through which mail can be sent, and the name space can then be > exported, with authentication. it also insulates sender and recipient > from detailed knowledge of current mbox conventions. right, this is what i actually suggested as a Future Direction in the RSMTP paper; `import /mail/box' is just a first-cut approximation that requires no new code. i don't think it's worth implementing the synthetic mail-receiving file system until we've figured out how to make the cross-domain authentication less manual. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 06:56:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 06:56:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7967 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 06:56:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7963 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:56:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:56:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79B8619CF7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12BE119BDC; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:56:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1204F19CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C65B19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55214421 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 21:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 21:55:10 -0000 Message-ID: <065001c382dd$c6e84540$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:52:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i have a different trivia question -- "What's the longest running > drawterm session that actually was doing something?" mine run till i get routing problems, but a week is doable. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 06:59:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 06:59:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7981 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7977 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:59:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E010019CF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 625C319ABD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44FF619B15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7670C199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25789 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 21:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 21:58:23 -0000 Message-ID: <065401c382de$395c3280$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:55:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > from: Latitude = 42º08'N Longitude = 024º48'E sounds like paris. > to: Latitude = 51°04' N Longitude = 114°08' W sounds like ny. no miles or nautical miles. great circle distances in klicks. ahh -- Kashmir ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:00:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:00:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8018 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:00:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8014 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:00:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:00:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E989019D00; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8E9719C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:00:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A523A19ABD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A61919CF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26090 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 21:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 21:59:19 -0000 Message-ID: <065801c382de$5b2e08c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:56:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Kashmir: all will be revealed From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:11:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:11:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8276 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:11:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8272 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:11:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:11:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 239BF19CF2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 922EF19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:11:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78ECF19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7019B19BDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Hardware for CPU server From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <86isnijkt1.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:10:34 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Memory is cheap and most x86 PC motherboards can't handle more than 2GB, so just buy all the memory your motherboard(s) will permit. Don't worry about the processor; any CPU you can buy new is far faster than Plan 9 needs. If you can afford a dual- (or more) processor system, that should help the machine stand up to load better than getting a CPU that's twice as fast. jmk could give better advice. Look at the sizes of L1 and L2 (and L3, if you have one) caches; bigger is better. If you need more detailed advice, consult the wiki for currently-supported peripherals, and the O'Reilly PC Hardware in a Nutshell book, 3rd edition, ISBN 0-596-00513-X for general PC advice, and pay more attention to their comments on Linux than on Windows. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:14:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:14:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8342 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8338 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:14:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1B4219CF7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65D8219AB7; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4FB419ABD; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C83019A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 146913972 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 22:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 22:13:52 -0000 Message-ID: <066a01c382e0$3802d220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:10:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If you count testing purposes then about two weeks and it was taken down > manually and intentionally. testing? that's for sissies. try again when you understand production grade systems. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:23:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:23:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8484 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:23:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8480 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:23:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:23:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2563919D09; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C30419CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:23:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91AE219CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D079019BDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8OMT2A12582 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:02 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: <066a01c382e0$3802d220$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > If you count testing purposes then about two weeks and it was taken down > > manually and intentionally. > > testing? that's for sissies. try again when you understand production grade > systems. Production? You mean like controlling 10,000 machines of 22 architectures on 5 continents from a single desktop? I'm familiar with production. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:26:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:26:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8520 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:26:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8516 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:26:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:26:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DFAA19CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B92719CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:26:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6825919CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D75419CFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8OMUaZ12820 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:30:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:30:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > > If you count testing purposes then about two weeks and it was taken down > > > manually and intentionally. > > > > testing? that's for sissies. try again when you understand production grade > > systems. > > Production? You mean like controlling 10,000 machines of 22 architectures > on 5 continents from a single desktop? > > I'm familiar with production. And it's 5 9's end to end... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:29:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:29:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8581 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:29:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8577 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:29:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:29:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FBDC19C3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26F4C19A14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:29:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B6E1F19CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B279E19C3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:28:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-122-70-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.122.70.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8OMSIMO024836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:28:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <065001c382dd$c6e84540$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-Id: <670B8898-EEDE-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:28:20 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i routinely run a drawterm for a few weeks. i once ran one from sydney to new jersey. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 07:48:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 07:48:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9064 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 07:48:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9060 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 07:48:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 07:48:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15E6C19C71; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D70219ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D90D19BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A541F19AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69094543 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 22:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 22:47:35 -0000 Message-ID: <069c01c382e4$71943ac0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:40:15 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Production? You mean like controlling 10,000 machines of 22 architectures oh a pissing competition. i just love that. zuul.pa.dec.com who had the root pasword on zuul? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 08:09:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 08:09:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9643 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 08:09:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9634 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 08:09:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 08:09:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA14619CF1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD8A019BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22D0519BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-15.noos.net [212.198.2.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6191419ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31580 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 2003 23:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.123 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Sep 2003 23:08:22 -0000 Message-ID: <06b601c382e7$29ca83e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <670B8898-EEDE-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:59:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i once ran one from sydney to new jersey. cool. i shall try sydney to new york at xmas. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 08:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 08:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9942 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 08:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9938 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 08:21:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 08:21:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA7AC19CFF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A8B419C71; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:21:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B39619C71; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0405819ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8ONKgj17780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309242320.h8ONKgj17780@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:02 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:20:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm familiar with production. Dude, don't you do QA? That's not the same thing. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:06:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:06:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11130 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:06:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11126 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:06:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:06:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC66219CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A25719B77; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B56C219ACF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9225219A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P0Bcf19076 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:11:38 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: <069c01c382e4$71943ac0$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:11:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > Production? You mean like controlling 10,000 machines of 22 architectures > > oh a pissing competition. i just love that. > > zuul.pa.dec.com who had the root pasword on zuul? Boyd, it amazes me how far you can stick your head up your ass. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:08:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:08:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11214 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:08:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11210 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:08:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:08:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1295A19D01; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2118C19B77; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF61E19C34; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CF0D19ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P0DfA19121 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:13:41 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: <200309242320.h8ONKgj17780@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:13:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > I'm familiar with production. > > Dude, don't you do QA? That's not the same thing. No. Haven't done QA since I quit working on C-Beam clocks about 25 years ago. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:11:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:11:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11379 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:11:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11375 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:11:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:11:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAFC119D16; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 036D819CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:11:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D48FA19CF1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D958F19BA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:10:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-122-70-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.122.70.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P0AlMO026211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:10:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:10:50 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd, it amazes me how far you can stick your head up your ass. boyd is tall and very thin. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:16:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:16:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11611 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:16:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11607 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:16:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:16:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83C8219D18; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8114A19D14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0943819CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-15.noos.net [212.198.2.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4888519C34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12111 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 00:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.123 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 00:15:05 -0000 Message-ID: <072201c382ef$3b3db400$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:57:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd, it amazes me how far you can stick your head up your ass. so, i have skill. do you have any? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:21:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:21:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11839 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:21:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11814 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:20:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:20:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D2D819D1C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5C2219D14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FF7919D15; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8E5419D14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P0JKv0001125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:19:20 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h8P0JJE1001060; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:19:19 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Message-Id: <20030925101919.0055912c.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws14 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6Z) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:19:19 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd, it amazes me how far you can stick your head up your ass. Faced with a choice between doing it to myself, or having it stuck up somebody else's, maybe he's right? (false dichotomy, I know..) anyway, since he's the 'headless horseman of the apocalypse' around here, I suspect by definition he can't do that. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:24:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:24:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12082 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:24:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12073 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:24:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:24:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40B5619BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 499AD19CF1; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:24:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DDF619D14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9468119CF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69053454 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 00:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 00:23:44 -0000 Message-ID: <073f01c382f0$3742ea40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:04:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > -rob think of berkeley. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:33:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:33:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12471 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:32:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12326 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:29:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:29:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5F1C19D1D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A26E19CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BD1619CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-14.noos.net [212.198.2.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B948B19BA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29749 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 00:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.122 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 00:28:06 -0000 Message-ID: <074601c382f0$cbb981c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030925101919.0055912c.ggm@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:08:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > anyway, since he's the 'headless horseman of the apocalypse' around here, I > suspect by definition he can't do that. 'game of travel scrabble, death'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:39:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:39:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12753 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:38:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12664 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7358F19D26; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADB8C19CBF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0329A19D14; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F14B19C92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P0ZMv0001627; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:35:22 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h8P0ZLZM002042; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:35:21 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: boyd@insultant.net Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes Message-Id: <20030925103521.770f931c.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <074601c382f0$cbb981c0$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <20030925101919.0055912c.ggm@apnic.net> <074601c382f0$cbb981c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws14 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6Z) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:35:21 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oh no.. bad karma.. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:41:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:41:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12838 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:39:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12716 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:38:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:38:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0EE019C92; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2DB619C92; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD08A19D23; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E0C19D1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23175892 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 00:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Sep 2003 00:37:07 -0000 Message-ID: <076a01c382f1$da0b2ac0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: "Wilyarti Howard" Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] Re: Grammar Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:16:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) fuck you very much. grammar? i speak english and french fluently. i know some swedish, which works in countries that have languages of germanic origin. i spoke/read japanese some 10 years ago, after 5 years of study. don't try 'old english' with me. thou seriez enculer, baka yaro!! i have the last laugh, 'cos you're signed up with big-pile-of-pus (aka telstra). speak/read anything but english? mail - it's a plural noun. so 'e-mails' is just wrong. oh yeah, i can read a bit of russian too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilyarti Howard" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 12:50 AM Subject: Grammar > Could you please include grammar in your e-mails, 'tis extremely > annoying when someone presses on about spelling, when they do not > understand the first thing about English grammar. > > Thank you. > > -wilyarti From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:42:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:42:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13053 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:42:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13049 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:42:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:42:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5BC119D26; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3704D19BD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:42:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E785719D20; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7CA119AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8P0fQj18173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309250041.h8P0fQj18173@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:13:41 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:41:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > > Dude, don't you do QA? That's not the same thing. > > No. Haven't done QA since I quit working on C-Beam clocks about 25 years > ago. So what do you do? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:56:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:56:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13855 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13851 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDCC519D2A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A53319BD2; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:56:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6B0319C92; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D65A319AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73396317 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 00:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 00:55:29 -0000 Message-ID: <079501c382f3$f4b87920$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:31:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > No. Haven't done QA since I quit working on C-Beam clocks about 25 years > ago. voilà, QED. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 09:59:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 09:59:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13974 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 09:59:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13970 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:59:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:59:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2FE719CFF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A826219A0C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C14F519C92; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2BD519AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <073f01c382f0$3742ea40$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:58:04 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> -rob > > think of berkeley. Somebody asked what that means, we replied that it roughly translates to 'think of berserkeley' and one thing let to another: "9fans are a class of legendary OS heroes, who fight frenzied by intoxicating liquors, and naked, regardless of wounds, or the fact that Plan 9 is dead." With apologies to Webster's 1913 and Longfellow: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/berserk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:04:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:04:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14280 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:04:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14276 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:04:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:04:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4290C19D31; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F11719C62; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:04:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02AC919CFF; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A16F19BD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P1A2919887; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:10:02 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: <200309250041.h8P0fQj18173@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:10:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CASHCASHCASH,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > So what do you do? Now? What it take to make $$$$, but seriously; Well I quit IBM about a month ago and besides doing 24/365 onsite computer repair we're doing full-time P9 development. And no I'm not going to spend a great deal of time talking about that at this point ;) open-forge.org While I worked for IBM? I was a Tivoli employee doing enterprise scale management (eg stock exchanges in NY and Chicago), in particular I was responsible for the 24/365 trouble team across our CORBA based products. This involved customers like Intel, DoD, Human Genome Project, etc. That was from 97 to 2000. I quit in 2000 to do P9 stuff but they hounded me into coming back to take care of the CORBA certification issues. I was responsible for managing the production upgrades for all our customers across all the various platforms and CORBA products. I basically sandboxed upgrades of production systems and resolved problems before the customer did. Over the the three years I also helped resolve technical questions that had sales stalled, I had the only group that could respond fast enough and had the tools and experience. We averaged between $85-100M in saved sales in those three years. That job closed down last Dec. and was moved to China. I was hoping that I wouldn't get reassigned but was given a job at the Linux Technology Center helping develop Linux distros for internal product apps. Can't tell you (or even other IBM employees for that matter) more. The main problem once IBM bought Tivoli was they prevented me from doing any programming for anyone but them (to answer the many questions on that point that people have asked). It was so boring and the people so unintersting I just quit. Before that? I worked for Austin Community College developing a Semiconductor Technology program that was meant to train technicians to work in fabs. It was only the fourth such program to ever be certified. I was responsible for the course development and lab design. Before that I worked for CompuAdd doing technical support for things like Desert Storm. I also worked in the Point of Sale group doing real time support of the bejillion stores that McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Sears, etc. had using our equipment. Before that I worked for UT Austin in their security section. Myself and one other engineer built the larget private computer controlled security system on the planet, at that time (about '88). While doing that I also worked with Dr. Jack Turner [1], Dr. Karl Trappe, and several other individuals doing a hands-on science museum. I was responsible for the exhibit construction and management. Among other things I helped kick start the Robot Group and the Childrens Museum here in Austin. [1] http://order.ph.utexas.edu Before that I did geophysics work (magneto-tellurics) and before that I worked on c-beam atomic clocks. Before that (very early 80's) I worked as a student at UT Austin on a DoD project that was part of the same NSF project that led to Sun. My group was approaching the 'router problem' using a non-Von Neumann architecture cpu. It was a mono-bus design using CAM w/ built in processing (ala 74181's) build entirely from 7400 chips. My job was to build the cpu's and bus controllers (it has a multi-split bus so that you could create these really nifty parallel isolated computers at will). It was based around the RTL (register transfer language and not resistor transistor logic) theory. It ran at 40MHz when everybody else was hollering about 4.77. It kicked butt. We saturated the network at UT so the only way we could test its full throughput was to program it to be a 64 voice synthesizer. It's fortunate the synth player for Journey was teaching a class at the time and one of the other students was taking the course. Before that I worked fixing 2-way radios, repairing tv's and home appliances, and my first job as a cook at McDonalds. Hope that answers your (and others) questions. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:06:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:06:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14350 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:06:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14345 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:06:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:06:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 847CB19D35; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8175019C62; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A740919D32; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 503E919D2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P1BOD19897 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:11:25 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:11:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > "9fans are a class of legendary OS heroes, who fight frenzied > by intoxicating liquors, and naked, regardless of wounds, or > the fact that Plan 9 is dead." God you guys really do read your press releases...:( -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:19:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:19:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15031 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:19:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15027 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:19:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:19:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 338F619D26; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4306A19C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:19:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E728419C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18CAA19CA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69368783 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 01:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 01:18:51 -0000 Message-ID: <07af01c382f7$0f2c4b80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:53:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >> -rob > > > > think of berkeley. > > Somebody asked what that means, we replied that it roughly translates > to 'think of berserkeley' and one thing let to another: nope, only rob, maltby, (maybe) brucee and i know what that means. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:24:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:24:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15300 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:23:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15274 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:23:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:23:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C417C19D32; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BF9519C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:23:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38C5319CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1CC119C56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P1SYD20040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:28:34 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Speaking of puzzles... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:28:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And to add one more item to my answer about what I do.... And in the spirit of puzzling clues about who we know and such. Here's some clues.... Steve Jackson Games The Phoenix Project BBS Who was user #19? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:26:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:26:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15406 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:25:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15393 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:25:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:25:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B7DB19CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80BF319C56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C6CC19CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D1E19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4724077 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 01:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 01:23:59 -0000 Message-ID: <07c001c382f7$bec01c20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:58:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Hope that answers your (and others) questions. you know the 3 phases of a Spec Op? SNAFU TARFU FUBAR From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 10:35:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 10:35:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15985 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 10:35:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15977 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 10:35:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 10:35:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAF1819D35; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6D3819A77; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4F8319CE4; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA54419A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.75]) by mta02bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLQ00ALUX6XYY@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:23:24 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by bwmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 20/1521723); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:23:21 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 Subject: [9fans] Re: Grammar Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:52:06 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Aha! Good to see some spirit! No need to prove yourself I know perfectly well whom you are and what you have achieved. It is just that some of us like to start sentences with the odd capital. In my opinion using expletives to express your feeling of frustration to the exactness of my point does nothing to your argument. To your question of weather I speak an other languages? Well for one I speak Bahasa Indonesia, and the local Aboriginal language Pitjantjatjara. What I do find rather confusing is your reference to the "last laugh". I find Telstra's/Bigpond's performance as an ISP quite high, for they are able to deliver high-speed Internet to isolated parts of Australia. I think someone can't operate their mail client or themselves are signed up to a "big-pile-of-pus" because they sent me the same e-mail three times. My apologies for upsetting you but I am Australian and I like to see standards upheld. Also email also spelt e-mail is correct, so please pick up your dictionary and have a look for yourself. By the way, there is also no need to forward my e-mail with your reply to 9fans. I might just CC mine. Have a nice day. -wilyarti boyd, rounin wrote: fuck you very much. grammar? i speak english and french fluently. i know some swedish, which works in countries that have languages of germanic origin. i spoke/read japanese some 10 years ago, after 5 years of study. don't try 'old english' with me. thou seriez enculer, baka yaro!! i have the last laugh, 'cos you're signed up with big-pile-of-pus (aka telstra). speak/read anything but english? mail - it's a plural noun. so 'e-mails' is just wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilyarti Howard" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 12:50 AM Subject: Grammar > Could you please include grammar in your e-mails, 'tis extremely > annoying when someone presses on about spelling, when they do not > understand the first thing about English grammar. > > Thank you. > > -wilyarti > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:04:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:04:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17296 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:04:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17291 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:04:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:04:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18C6319D37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37CE919D19; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:04:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2656219BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 873A519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41c0b24991a900aeb5ee095343ac1af1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-Reply-To: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:03:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Luckily I have a copy of Macquarie at hand. Perhaps Boyd has been using one of those inferior British or American dictionaries... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:13:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:13:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17702 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:13:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17698 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:13:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:13:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BB0D19D3B; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75FA619BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3303619BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com (mta06bw.bigpond.com [144.135.24.156]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3427219AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.24.75]) by mta06bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLQ00EVEWQUEY@mta06bw.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by bwmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 20/1503676); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:42 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard In-reply-to: <070b01c382ed$30acd900$b9844051@insultant.net> To: "boyd, rounin" Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F7240F5.406@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 References: <3F721FD1.1060109@bigpond.com> <070b01c382ed$30acd900$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: [9fans] Re: Grammar Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:42:21 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Aha! Good to see some spirit! No need to prove yourself I know perfectly well whom you are and what you have achieved. It is just that some of us like to start sentences with the odd capital. In my opinion using expletives to express your feeling of frustration to the exactness of my point does nothing to your argument. To your question of weather I speak an other languages? Well for one I speak Bahasa Indonesia, and the local Aboriginal language Pitjantjatjara. What I do find rather confusing is your reference to the "last laugh". I find Telstra's/Bigpond's performance as an ISP quite high, for they are able to deliver high-speed Internet to isolated parts of Australia. I think someone can't operate their mail client or themselves are signed up to a "big-pile-of-pus" because they sent me the same e-mail three times. My apologies for upsetting you but I am Australian and I like to see standards upheld. Also email also spelt e-mail is correct, so please pick up your dictionary and have a look for yourself. By the way, there is also no need to forward my e-mail with your reply to 9fans. I might just CC mine. Have a nice day. -wilyarti boyd, rounin wrote: >fuck you very much. > >grammar? i speak english and french fluently. >i know some swedish, which works in countries that >have languages of germanic origin. i spoke/read >japanese some 10 years ago, after 5 years of study. > >don't try 'old english' with me. thou seriez enculer, baka yaro!! > >i have the last laugh, 'cos you're signed up with big-pile-of-pus (aka telstra). > >speak/read anything but english? > >mail - it's a plural noun. so 'e-mails' is just wrong. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Wilyarti Howard" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 12:50 AM >Subject: Grammar > > > > >>Could you please include grammar in your e-mails, 'tis extremely >>annoying when someone presses on about spelling, when they do not >>understand the first thing about English grammar. >> >>Thank you. >> >>-wilyarti >> >> >> > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:23:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:23:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18172 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:23:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18132 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:22:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:22:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5C7519D3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E6E219BA8; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:22:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D56E919D19; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0CA019BA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1538718 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 02:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 02:21:40 -0000 Message-ID: <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:54:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is really OT, but it's me. anyway, if you wanna do this pissing contest let's take it of 9fans -- they don't need it. choate V2? > Aha! Good to see some spirit! No need to prove yourself I know perfectly spirit? well i was gonna attach an image, but as i was typing this i realised that no-one on 9fans wants a 165Kb image dumped in their mail file. i could give a url, but that would spoil the fun. > well whom you are and what you have achieved. It is just that some of us well who [grammar] monsieur zero knowledge proof. who am i? > like to start sentences with the odd capital. In my opinion using > expletives to express your feeling of frustration to the exactness of my > point does nothing to your argument. nope, lower case does it fine. > To your question of weather I speak an other languages? err, don't you mean 'whether'? > Well for one I speak Bahasa Indonesia, and the local Aboriginal language > Pitjantjatjara. What I do find rather confusing is your reference to the > "last laugh". I find Telstra's/Bigpond's performance as an ISP quite > high, for they are able to deliver high-speed Internet to isolated parts > of Australia. telstra are an outrageously, incompetent quasi-monopoly. > I think someone can't operate their mail client or themselves are signed someone who [grammar] > up to a "big-pile-of-pus" because they sent me the same e-mail three times. nah, that's a mailing list bug (i think). > My apologies for upsetting you but I am Australian and I like to see > standards upheld. Also email also spelt e-mail is correct, so please > pick up your dictionary and have a look for yourself. so what? i'm 6th generation australian (which disprooves your claim that 'I know perfectly well whom (sic) you are ': do you want my gold NSW driver's licence number? my passport number? you won't get 'em 'cos it's bad security. > By the way, there is also no need to forward my e-mail with your reply > to 9fans. I might just CC mine. > Have a nice day. go right ahead. you wanted to 'play' so 'get in the ring'. you sent it. now it's mine, posted to 9fans and blogged. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:30:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:30:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18552 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:30:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18542 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:30:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:30:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35A4F19D3A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA1F119D20; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:30:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B25BA19A0C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB97D199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28871 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 02:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 02:29:39 -0000 Message-ID: <080101c38300$9d0205e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <41c0b24991a900aeb5ee095343ac1af1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:01:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Luckily I have a copy of Macquarie at hand. Perhaps Boyd has been using > one of those inferior British or American dictionaries... nah, i been usin' synapses ;) but it is a good dictionary. i'm sure it has: boofhead [without the labs pronounciation] buggery [in the #! exec code in 9th Ed, written by brucee, but removed at the request of dennis] no dictionaries there ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:42:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:42:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19418 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:42:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19407 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:42:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:42:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CDA519D3C; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5206919D3D; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:42:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21F5419D37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA8.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha8.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DD3019D20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.83]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L12X27VGBG8WXARG@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:54:57 +1000 Received: from splat.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E5623C005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:54:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (nbk-9978.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.170]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by splat.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFF2164002 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:54:57 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-reply-to: <670B8898-EEDE-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F724AED.2080600@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030923 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <670B8898-EEDE-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:54:53 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Rob Pike wrote: > i routinely run a drawterm for a few weeks. > i once ran one from sydney to new jersey. I celebrated immensely when I first got one to run the 19km from home to work (Linux box, 33k modem, Ascend thing that sometimes answers the phone, assorted bits of blue wire and switch, Auth/CPU box). > -rob Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:ajft@ajft.org Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 11:55:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 11:55:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20051 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 11:55:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20047 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 11:55:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 11:55:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 945A119D41; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97C0B19D32; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:55:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC12A19BFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07ps.bigpond.com (mta07ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.132]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E1E19D32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.75]) by mta07ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLR007S815509@mta07ps.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:48:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 83/1363329); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:48:41 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-reply-to: <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:17:26 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I most probably meant "whether", as to the question of whom you are I couldn't really care further than you are arrogant and have a great love of buzz words. Who cares if your a 6 generation Australian, to my knowledge you are living in Sweden. I am a 7th generation Australian, my decedents were some of the first to settle here. But I still stay loyal to my country and don't desert unlike some. I don't care too much about your comments about Telstra either, and I won't bother to argue anymore over it. I have no interested in mindless arguing, my original request was for you to take your own medicine and take some criticism over your grammar. I have nothing further to say, although I am sure you will reply with some more expletives and misguided insults and negative comments. Have a nice day, I really mean it. But with a web page name such as insultant, a g'day from yourself seems unexpected. -wilyarti boyd, rounin wrote: >this is really OT, but it's me. anyway, if you wanna do this pissing contest >let's take it of 9fans -- they don't need it. choate V2? > > > >>Aha! Good to see some spirit! No need to prove yourself I know perfectly >> >> > >spirit? well i was gonna attach an image, but as i was typing this i realised >that no-one on 9fans wants a 165Kb image dumped in their mail file. >i could give a url, but that would spoil the fun. > > > >>well whom you are and what you have achieved. It is just that some of us >> >> > >well who [grammar] > >monsieur zero knowledge proof. who am i? > > > >>like to start sentences with the odd capital. In my opinion using >>expletives to express your feeling of frustration to the exactness of my >>point does nothing to your argument. >> >> > >nope, lower case does it fine. > > > >>To your question of weather I speak an other languages? >> >> > >err, don't you mean 'whether'? > > > >>Well for one I speak Bahasa Indonesia, and the local Aboriginal language >>Pitjantjatjara. What I do find rather confusing is your reference to the >>"last laugh". I find Telstra's/Bigpond's performance as an ISP quite >>high, for they are able to deliver high-speed Internet to isolated parts >>of Australia. >> >> > >telstra are an outrageously, incompetent quasi-monopoly. > > > >>I think someone can't operate their mail client or themselves are signed >> >> > >someone who [grammar] > > > >>up to a "big-pile-of-pus" because they sent me the same e-mail three times. >> >> > >nah, that's a mailing list bug (i think). > > > >>My apologies for upsetting you but I am Australian and I like to see >>standards upheld. Also email also spelt e-mail is correct, so please >>pick up your dictionary and have a look for yourself. >> >> > >so what? i'm 6th generation australian (which disprooves your claim that 'I >know >perfectly well whom (sic) you are ': do you want my gold NSW driver's licence >number? my passport number? > >you won't get 'em 'cos it's bad security. > > > >>By the way, there is also no need to forward my e-mail with your reply >>to 9fans. I might just CC mine. >>Have a nice day. >> >> > >go right ahead. you wanted to 'play' so 'get in the ring'. > >you sent it. now it's mine, posted to 9fans and blogged. > > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:20:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:20:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21252 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:20:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21229 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:20:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:20:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0458419D40; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AD7119CFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:20:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B26619AE6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C06419A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:19:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-121-121-151.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.121.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P3JeMO028066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:19:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> Message-Id: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:19:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > decedents i laughed out loud when i read this. i think you meant your 'descendants' helped settle australia. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:23:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:23:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21415 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:23:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21411 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:23:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:23:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C5EA19D47; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05E3819D37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19D6619CA0; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6C2A19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1574530 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:22:23 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c38314$2c9a4c40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:21:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I most probably meant "whether", as to the question of whom you are I > couldn't really care further than you are arrogant and have a great love > of buzz words. shock, horror, you made a _mistake_ > Who cares if your a 6 generation Australian, to my knowledge you are > living in Sweden. nope, not in sweden. i'm so glad you're so well informed. > I am a 7th generation Australian, my decedents were > some of the first to settle here. But I still stay loyal to my country > and don't desert unlike some. "Who cares if your a Nth generation Australian" my country right or wrong -- the 'oils is that it? > I don't care too much about your comments about Telstra either, and I > won't bother to argue anymore over it. I have no interested in mindless > arguing, my original request was for you to take your own medicine and > take some criticism over your grammar. which prooved in your reply, that you don't have a clue. let's go beavis and butthead: telstra suck. > I have nothing further to say, although I am sure you will reply with > some more expletives and misguided insults and negative comments. have you read 1984? hey shithead, in france there is 'la liberté d'expression' very much like the US 1st amendment. the libel/defamation laws in oz are a joke. ever read 'the justice game' by geoffrey robertson? > Have a nice day, I really mean it. But with a web page name such as > insultant, a g'day from yourself seems unexpected. no you don't. don't bullshit me. no one in oz says 'have a nice day'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:30:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:30:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21796 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:30:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21791 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:30:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:30:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD10D19D37; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 992DB19D46; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:30:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C152819AFE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F263119AA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9533 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:29:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:29:55 -0000 Message-ID: <005301c38315$3a65ae40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:29:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > decedents > > i laughed out loud when i read this. i think you meant your > 'descendants' helped > settle australia. what idiot wrote that? i don't think i wrote it. musta been one of my nemeses (that's the plural, right?). it is pretty fuckin' funny ... oh god no, he's used alliteration. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:32:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:32:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21896 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:32:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21890 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:32:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:32:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57BE319D4A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3160219AC3; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10DD019D49; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 782C219AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <534e81af741ae8a56c3b91f456170dd9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-Reply-To: <080101c38300$9d0205e0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:31:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Sep 24 22:31:01 EDT 2003, boyd@insultant.net wrote: > > Luckily I have a copy of Macquarie at hand. Perhaps Boyd has been using > > one of those inferior British or American dictionaries... > > nah, i been usin' synapses ;) You have synapses? I wish I did. My neurons communicate by shouting. It gets pretty noisy in my head. Some times all six of them are shouting at the same time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:35:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:35:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22020 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:35:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22015 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:35:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:35:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E089719D53; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90A9619D48; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E1A419D4A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8720619D46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73251679 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:34:14 -0000 Message-ID: <005b01c38315$d4e47640$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:33:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > decedents oh i see now, 'cos i just got the reply. it's 0530 in paris and red has been drunk. hell, that's some of story behind acme. rob: the car/bobf thing i apologise for, it was a bad time for me, but you were gracious. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:37:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:37:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22115 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:37:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22110 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:37:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:37:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61BE019D53; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A148619D48; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E03B019D51; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74B4E19D37 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P3Zrv0000838 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:35:53 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h8P3Zrlf003234; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:35:53 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar Message-Id: <20030925133553.0d2709a7.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <534e81af741ae8a56c3b91f456170dd9@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <080101c38300$9d0205e0$b9844051@insultant.net> <534e81af741ae8a56c3b91f456170dd9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws14 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6Z) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:35:53 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) synapses? hah! we have perceptrons here.. "confectionist modelling, the sweet smell of AI success..." -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:38:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:38:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22166 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:38:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22162 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:38:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:38:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49DF119D61; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A4B319D56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:38:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AAA819D4A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-15.noos.net [212.198.2.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 979E019D4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21837 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.123 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:37:04 -0000 Message-ID: <006701c38316$39f3bd20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:36:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > decedents yup, that's hyusterical. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:41:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:41:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22306 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:41:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22296 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:41:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:41:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7A6B19D56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2141A19D56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:41:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0977B19D48; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta01ps.bigpond.com (mta01ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.155]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DEC6319D4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.75]) by mta01ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLR00IIB33UXM@mta01ps.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:31:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 83/1437753); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:31:06 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-reply-to: <001701c38314$2c9a4c40$b9844051@insultant.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F72612D.4050402@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> <001701c38314$2c9a4c40$b9844051@insultant.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:59:49 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: >>I most probably meant "whether", as to the question of whom you are I >>couldn't really care further than you are arrogant and have a great love >>of buzz words. >> >> > >shock, horror, you made a _mistake_ > > Yes the defining characteristic of a human. > > >>Who cares if your a 6 generation Australian, to my knowledge you are >>living in Sweden. >> >> > >nope, not in sweden. i'm so glad you're so well informed. > > > Err, I said to my knowlegde. It was someone else whom said you where is Sweden, that was some time ago. >>I am a 7th generation Australian, my decedents were >>some of the first to settle here. But I still stay loyal to my country >>and don't desert unlike some. >> >> > >"Who cares if your a Nth generation Australian" > > my country right or wrong -- the 'oils > >is that it? > > > >>I don't care too much about your comments about Telstra either, and I >>won't bother to argue anymore over it. I have no interested in mindless >>arguing, my original request was for you to take your own medicine and >>take some criticism over your grammar. >> >> > >which prooved in your reply, that you don't have a clue. > >let's go beavis and butthead: telstra suck. > > > No, being 15 I believe I don't. But time will heal. >>I have nothing further to say, although I am sure you will reply with >>some more expletives and misguided insults and negative comments. >> >> > >have you read 1984? > >hey shithead, in france there is 'la liberté d'expression' very much like the >US 1st amendment. the libel/defamation laws in oz are a joke. > >ever read 'the justice game' by geoffrey robertson? > > No, can't say that I have. 1984 came before myself. > > >>Have a nice day, I really mean it. But with a web page name such as >>insultant, a g'day from yourself seems unexpected. >> >> > >no you don't. don't bullshit me. no one in oz says 'have a nice day'. > > > > No, they don't. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:42:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:42:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22352 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:42:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22346 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:42:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D35519D67; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2F0719D65; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:42:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2A5919D51; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta03ps.bigpond.com (mta03ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.157]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B06A19D48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.75]) by mta03ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLR00I3V37GZZ@mta03ps.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:33:19 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 83/1441826); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:33:15 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-reply-to: <005301c38315$3a65ae40$b9844051@insultant.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F7261B1.4090707@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> <005301c38315$3a65ae40$b9844051@insultant.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:01 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: >>>decedents >>> >>> >>i laughed out loud when i read this. i think you meant your >>'descendants' helped >>settle australia. >> >> > >what idiot wrote that? i don't think i wrote it. > >musta been one of my nemeses (that's the plural, right?). > >it is pretty fuckin' funny ... oh god no, he's used alliteration. > > > > > No Boyd, you didn't, I did in a hurried e-mail. I must remember to check them next time. -wilyarti From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22422 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:44:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22418 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:44:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:44:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A61E19D57; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E083819D51; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52D6F19D63; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85C8E19D57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1554113 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:43:11 -0000 Message-ID: <008801c38317$14b50540$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <080101c38300$9d0205e0$b9844051@insultant.net><534e81af741ae8a56c3b91f456170dd9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030925133553.0d2709a7.ggm@apnic.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:42:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > synapses? hah! we have perceptrons here.. yeah, but yer in bloody QLD, right? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:45:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:45:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22480 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22475 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:45:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:45:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B637A19D6B; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7F6A19D56; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EC1C19D60; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta07ps.bigpond.com (mta07ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.132]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C367019D51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigpond.com ([144.135.25.75]) by mta07ps.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLR005AB3JGXP@mta07ps.email.bigpond.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:30 +1000 (EST) Received: from c26.66.135.144.satellite.bigpond.com ([144.135.66.26]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 83/1454431); Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:28 +0000 From: Wilyarti Howard Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar In-reply-to: <006701c38316$39f3bd20$b9844051@insultant.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F72635F.2060103@bigpond.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> <006701c38316$39f3bd20$b9844051@insultant.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:09:11 +0930 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: >>decedents >> >> > >yup, that's hyusterical. > > > > I can see your going to drag this out aren't you? -wilyarti From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:45:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:45:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22511 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:45:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22507 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:45:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:45:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B45A19D6F; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54D11199FE; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:45:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02B3F19D6E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCB8B19D58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5816250 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:44:19 -0000 Message-ID: <008e01c38317$3d4dc820$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> <006701c38316$39f3bd20$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:43:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > yup, that's hyusterical. fait chier! hysterical. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:50:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:50:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22699 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:50:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22695 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:50:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:50:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 056EA19D5E; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA49719D0A; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:50:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3434519D57; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BB8219D41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1580501 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 03:49:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 03:49:29 -0000 Message-ID: <009801c38317$f63598e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> <001701c38314$2c9a4c40$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F72612D.4050402@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:49:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilyarti Howard" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar if you wanna do this pissing contest mail me directly, as i said before. this is a better address: mail boyd@sdgm.net 9fans are not interested, but your fine use of english made rob laugh. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 12:50:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 12:50:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22713 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 12:50:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22709 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 12:50:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 12:50:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32DFC19D73; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90C9719D38; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:50:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D17E019D62; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (garlic.apnic.net [202.12.29.224]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F75F19D57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garlic.apnic.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8P3ngv0000908 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:42 +1000 (EST) Received: (from ggm@localhost) by garlic.apnic.net (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h8P3ngoC000967; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:42 +1000 (EST) From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar Message-Id: <20030925134941.41a48bf0.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <008801c38317$14b50540$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <080101c38300$9d0205e0$b9844051@insultant.net> <534e81af741ae8a56c3b91f456170dd9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030925133553.0d2709a7.ggm@apnic.net> <008801c38317$14b50540$b9844051@insultant.net> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws14 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6Z) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:41 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:42:44 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > synapses? hah! we have perceptrons here.. > > yeah, but yer in bloody QLD, right? I'd reply, but it takes 20 years for anything sensible to come out of QLD into the real world... -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 13:07:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 13:07:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23727 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 13:07:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23723 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 13:07:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 13:07:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0133319D56; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1818019C62; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:07:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF71919C62; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BBCF19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8P4DCE21889 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:13:13 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Subject: [9fans] WANTED: LEGO Mindstorms Educators (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:13:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:03:19 GMT From: Tonya Witherspoon To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com Subject: WANTED: LEGO Mindstorms Educators WANTED: Lego Mindstorms Educators Are you an educator using Lego Mindstorms Robotics? Would you like to participate in a global online pilot project using Lego Mindstorms? Wichita State University=92s (WSU) College of Education Robotics Team is lo= oking for a small group of educators who are interested in piloting a global collaborative project using the Internet and Lego Mindstorms Robotics. Thi= s pilot project will involve K-20 educators, but is designed to be replicated= with students in a 4th grade or higher classroom setting. Participants must have an Internet connection and Lego Mindstorms Robotics equipment. To read about WSU=92s Robotics Project visit our website: http://education.wichita.edu/mindstorms To apply to participate in this pilot project, go to: http://education.wichita.edu/mindstorms/global -- Did you check the web site first?: http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 13:13:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 13:13:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24137 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 13:13:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24131 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 13:13:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 13:13:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31E1719D72; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5305119D0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:13:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C860319D19; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0387A19C62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23280071 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 04:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 04:12:49 -0000 Message-ID: <00d101c3831b$384f90c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] WANTED: LEGO Mindstorms Educators (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:12:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) lego? isn't that for kids? i think i'll just turn up the led zep double DVD set up. oh-yeah!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 16:01:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 16:01:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32760 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 16:01:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32756 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 16:01:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 16:01:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED2C419D79; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0A6E19D78; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7978F19D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5F8DC19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5427 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 07:00:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 35137 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 97277 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smmlica8.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:59:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I've installed a terminal which bootes from my fileserver. I login as glenda and all works as expected but =AB9fs dump=BB. 9fs dump gives me: mount: mount /n/dump: attach -- unknow user or failed authetication mount: mount /n/dump/: '/n/dump' does not exist If I login on the same cpu server with drawterm (bootet from fs), 9fs dump works. What do I missing? Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 18:13:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 18:13:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6062 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 18:13:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6058 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 18:13:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 18:13:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFBAD19D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79DEE19CA0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C660219B03; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC15919A96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14b767bdeaee2dbdea968abe5d74f12c@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Charles Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spam Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:11:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I thought the spam/virus problem had been dealt with when I went to bed this morning, then I woke this morning to find my mail box full of rubbish. Then I discovered they were apparently real 9fans messages! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 18:22:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 18:22:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6380 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 18:22:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6376 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 18:22:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 18:22:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AF1E19D7A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEEDA19D15; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38ADC19D15; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5066819BFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22181 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:21:39 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:21:39 -0000 Message-ID: <007e01c38346$b2ba2980$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F721FD1.1060109@bigpond.com> <070b01c382ed$30acd900$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F7240F5.406@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:23:30 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "does nothing to your argument." what language? or should i ask "from nothing of you argument do you mean". boyd can explete you, in my humble opinion. and yes, i have taught remedial english i have no need for caps in e-mail. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilyarti Howard" To: "boyd, rounin" Cc: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 11:12 AM Subject: [9fans] Re: Grammar > Aha! Good to see some spirit! No need to prove yourself I know perfectly > well whom you are and what you have achieved. It is just that some of us > like to start sentences with the odd capital. In my opinion using > expletives to express your feeling of frustration to the exactness of my > point does nothing to your argument. blah blah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 18:33:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 18:33:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6759 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 18:33:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6755 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 18:33:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 18:33:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAA7019D87; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B0B319D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E923D19D78; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 262F719D15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10649 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 09:32:54 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-64-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.64.219) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 09:32:54 -0000 Message-ID: <010501c38348$44fcd490$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F72433E.9050004@bigpond.com> <07f201c382ff$98c62660$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F72573E.3000003@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:32:22 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "don't desert unlike some" hey, when i worked at the labs was i deserter? not at all. would i do it again? sure. bondi beach was 30C today, rather warm for spring. the water temp is only 18 tho. if you don't like aussies working at the labs then i hope you are not using venti. brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 19:12:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 19:12:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7956 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 19:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7952 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 19:12:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 19:12:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46C8419D87; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 070BC19D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:12:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD64819D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5A9519AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@noviruses.snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] replica - getting back Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:11:14 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I am obviously wrong but I understood that the -s and -c options to replica pull defined the immediate and future behaviour of the pull. IE the file should always (or never) be updated always from the remote heirarchy (sources in my case). The latter seems to work fine - I can opt out of updates to files I have modified locally. Now I wish to opt back in for some of those files; how do I do that? do I have to edit plan9.log by hand? Feeling foolish -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 20:37:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 20:37:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10693 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 20:37:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10689 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 20:37:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 20:37:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D3F219D53; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E6AC19B06; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FA7919B06; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.179.37.163.forward.012.net.il [80.179.37.163]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51F3819B02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (deva [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8PBW4Gs018522 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:04 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8PBW3gR018520 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:03 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200309251132.h8PBW3gR018520@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:03 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Well, the ISP's filtering consists essentially of removing the virus or rather the attachment with the virus in it. The letter itself still comes through. This is still an improvement; the emails are around 4K in size instead of 140K. But I still have to postprocess the results of my current (underpowered) spam filter. At least it all downloads a lot faster now. FWIW. Arnold From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 20:48:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 20:48:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10987 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 20:48:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10983 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 20:48:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 20:48:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7010F19D6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D04DF19B03; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51BC819AFF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AE8419B0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal In-Reply-To: <86smmlica8.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dybhdxoaoyqnjwxxezcwgfverx" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:47:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dybhdxoaoyqnjwxxezcwgfverx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you running an old style file server or a fossil+venti? --upas-dybhdxoaoyqnjwxxezcwgfverx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 03:01:53 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 03:01:51 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AD7F19D6F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0F2F19D75; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7978F19D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5F8DC19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5427 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 07:00:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 35137 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 97277 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 06:59:27 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86smmlica8.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:59:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I've installed a terminal which bootes from my fileserver. I login as glenda and all works as expected but =AB9fs dump=BB. 9fs dump gives me: mount: mount /n/dump: attach -- unknow user or failed authetication mount: mount /n/dump/: '/n/dump' does not exist If I login on the same cpu server with drawterm (bootet from fs), 9fs dump works. What do I missing? Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-dybhdxoaoyqnjwxxezcwgfverx-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 21:24:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 21:24:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11718 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 21:24:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11714 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 21:24:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 21:24:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 664BF19D06; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB8A819AC9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 168DF199DE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33DDA199D3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6043421 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 12:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 12:23:06 -0000 Message-ID: <041901c3835f$9beae460$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309251132.h8PBW3gR018520@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:21:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yeah, i wanted my filer to be fail safe, so it'd save the rejected message in an 'al' file with deliver. this prooved to be impractical, so now i just save the headers: the code reads: # so we can $upas/fs it later, if necessary # # this is lunacy, but correct #$upas/deliver $to $mbox/replyto $audit < $mbox/raw # this is manageable, but not correct $upas/deliver $to $mbox/replyto $audit < $mbox/rawheader From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 21:39:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 21:39:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12156 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 21:39:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12152 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 21:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 21:39:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E79DF19AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64AB719A7C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:39:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11C7619A3E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A84F199E0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8PCcsMW016175 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:38:46 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think the t-shirt would need a bush or rumsfeld quote to match the franklin one. "There ought to be limits to freedom" --at a Press conference at the Texas State House, May 21, 1999, referring to GWBush.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 21:50:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 21:50:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12380 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 21:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12376 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 21:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 21:50:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 658DF19D44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8EC119D44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A7AB19D58; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7579C19AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0e0da23776e4b4fc4f330ff23108f5f7@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Grammar From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <1A009649-EF07-11D7-8191-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:41:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i think you meant your 'descendants' helped settle australia. I think you both mean antecedents. Your decendents are your children. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 22:43:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 22:43:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14014 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 22:43:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14009 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 22:43:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 22:43:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9758919D8B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EDDB19D4B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3E6A19CA0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9855F19D44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PDgnXx006607 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:42:51 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PDgno3001023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:42:49 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PDgn7W024797 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:42:49 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251132.h8PBW3gR018520@skeeve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:42:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Aharon Robbins wrote: > FWIW. not a lot, over time. I had 5,000 messages to deal with on the linuxbios list from this thing (oh, wait, rm -r, that was easy). Not having attachments didn't help much. ISPs say that something like 90+% of their BW goes to SPAM now. Two SPAM blacklisting services just shut down due to DDOS attacks. Whatever we're doing, it ain't working very well. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 22:44:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 22:44:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14094 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 22:44:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14090 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 22:44:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 22:44:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9336219D92; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73D1919D4B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:44:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9709919D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42FA619D44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8PDc8ef019243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:10 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8PDc6cR019242 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:06 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030925153805.C8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] /dev/key Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) auth/iam uses /dev/key but on my auth server (heaven forbid!) there is no such device. I also can't seem to find it in /sys/man/3/* so I guess I have to ask: where is it? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 22:48:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 22:48:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14222 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 22:48:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14218 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 22:48:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 22:48:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC39319BD3; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFEF919AA1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEC7919AA1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 105B4199DE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d4d5ba38a3d34a1215d73efc46231ce@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] /dev/key In-Reply-To: <20030925153805.C8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-izhyhssmnjyyghlkghsakythuq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:47:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-izhyhssmnjyyghlkghsakythuq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shouldn't be one anywhere any more. auth/iam is a thing of the past. I'll nuke it. --upas-izhyhssmnjyyghlkghsakythuq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 09:44:40 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 09:44:37 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A67619D8F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DD0919D44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9709919D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42FA619D44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8PDc8ef019243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:10 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8PDc6cR019242 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:06 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20030925153805.C8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] /dev/key Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:38:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) auth/iam uses /dev/key but on my auth server (heaven forbid!) there is no such device. I also can't seem to find it in /sys/man/3/* so I guess I have to ask: where is it? ++L --upas-izhyhssmnjyyghlkghsakythuq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 23:25:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 23:25:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15141 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 23:25:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15137 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 23:25:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:25:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B715019D77; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0C9919BD3; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF61419D06; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D06E419B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-whrrytiegdkrobomxatoetrmwy" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:24:20 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-whrrytiegdkrobomxatoetrmwy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My only barely-usefull contribution to the antivirus/antispam debate. Attached are two faces I use which allow me to chose to read interesting email first. They work in conjunction with some very crude pipeto rules, if the file has an MS executable attachement then it is a virus. if the username is not in my whitelist then it is spam. -Steve --upas-whrrytiegdkrobomxatoetrmwy Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=virus.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Y29tcHJlc3NlZAogICAgICAgICBrNCAgICAgICAgICAgMCAgICAgICAgICAgMCAgICAgICAg ICA0OCAgICAgICAgICA0OCAgICAgICAgICA0OCAgICAgICAgMTAxNSCXRFeKuph3ia//+GZl VFZmZVVEREVVZnVFjURmi4d2ZneO/9hlVVVFABUEAIJFZEWNaKpmeFVVab//hlRERVQEF4BU AAOBVUSJZVREV2ZmaK/9ZQQOgFYEFAQwgFSIVENERnu4jP/XBBEAXwwXgUREh3hlREav/Zz8 CBCBRmcYF4d8hlVp/v6u+whAgkVodRQXh4iId6/ZqH76DBcEpgwAiHZneN51Z53/lQgYgVVF DI+BRESIZVZnrVRXjP/4DDAAFQgIgEOIVVVmuERp16/8DCYAwQxKiFVFaJZVbOev/BBZgmZV ZggJiERFa4VmfMvf6BANg1aIrsYA+YBEiERFelVnh4/tdgwXhFZn3f//BMSJREV2VVZ4z/pl VQhghVaHv87/hQAIiERVZVZXy+/3VQwXhUWHapqvxgAIiERWpmZmq//GVRBfhHuad6+mAAiH RWe3aLe/+3UQF4VVe+yK3XYACIdWe8l4ut+2VQwXiUVXre2sp2VUVVWFVr24ZpffAEYMF4Ro 3//7hgAMgFWGeaqGVWaO1hRGhGr//vhkABaAVoHumQAegHwALwEYgEUAF4G//wQXgURVhf+o hmhlagBfACwAJoRojP36hQSyhr7+zt+GepYEF4BFARuEaI7/7/gFbYWK/67YeMwASwAWiJiH eHq+7K3/dQAvh539nqh6/YZUASuIaO/bud//2Xv/BcyS78ebdnnftlRVRVZ7///93f/YWQoy lP+HqHis78ZVVEVWjP6t+6n/uGr8ZAAXhv+Xh2qqu4YAXohnj8ln+XaN6o8J0oX/1mrNu5kC m4pWmL7aZ6hla+/v1gThhP/GapmHAZSLVVe5q5uHaIVnvf+2BBeD/7dmZgUci1Vpm7hnd6h4 eJzv9gRHgf92ETKKaKuZZmdnh3icz/sED4D9ABcJqYpY7bt3l2d4mZev/gSngP8E6gm3iaze zKl2iMyHr/8AhYBVgf+ZDi+LRVV87e7rdnerur3+BJ2C//+3BDaARQAKjHi7zOmXi//N2ndl RFaDve/5hgRgBaOLZ7z/x67vuHmXZUVVgnes3gFkAC4FfYeJ7qje/7h3dgAPgme9/AkEgHcE xYpoq5v/7HeWVUVURJOb3/6WVVRGfP//dmZlVnmbqHZWeASHk8z83+dVVVed7v/Ym7hlZnh3 ZVVnBBeC75euAW+JWqzav////3VWZgCDhFVFaWRDgsyHjAGfiFi8yZ3/3v+GVgTkhFRFZmZl jIp3vP91VVfNdnnZi/8J/gMzglRVaIppqIz7ZVVWraeN+gAXB48HY4FEVYNmq6vIAKGFa/3P +57rAUMEFwQAgmVolwVphVjvzc3fygQXgDQCdgAA --upas-whrrytiegdkrobomxatoetrmwy Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=spam.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Y29tcHJlc3NlZAogICAgICAgICBrNCAgICAgICAgICAgMCAgICAgICAgICAgMCAgICAgICAg ICA0OCAgICAgICAgICA0OCAgICAgICAgICA0OCAgICAgICAgIDk3NiCA/1AAVACF///+//7u BAWC7u7vIBWB//8YDYDvAACD7t7u7gAlgf//gv/+/iw+CB2B7/8AB4D9LD8EAIHb/4T/z//9 3wg0gN4IawwAgfv/g/+t//0MDwQDge2uDF6B/v+C/3iKBCgcg4bv3t7/75//hv+EREVmmrwg G4D+CAuM/3Q33tpldlVVZoirzQihgezfBHGX/4RO52zo7u7slVWLZVVVVVZmiZh2Z7//l/90 bsRF183Wju1X7uZV7u5lVrqndVbP/5f/hF7cZVXN5VrebO3qVX3dlVvt6WVWzv+U/3Q93t61 ruVc7n6s7VVe7uVe3tVVAC+U/4M0vu7avtne3K5o76Ve3teu7sVVAC+G/3SJNZ3uvQB3iO6H 7dVert3c3Qgvkv+EfkRJ7c7lVVft7u/mXpvu1+4AF4HO/5L/czzJfdrN5VVb5VV92l6l3eXt ACOBz/+S/4Mznd627elVftZ3be5epc6V7gAXgc7/kv90MzM0RWZ3VY3peb7ezudbVe0IX4H/ ZAAXjERUVVVnd3iJq7y5VUoAOwBfDBeNVVZneHd5eIeYdWVFVmUELwgXjld3eYmIZ5iZiYeY eGVURQQXABeQNFZ3zu/ImpiKtqp5mIdlRVQEdwAXiUV3iYz+yqmqqogAAIB3BC8Ap4n/ZTRH iYiJn5mpABiEiYplZlUEF4HO/47/ZVaImIqomou5mZm5mpgBoIBkCF+T/2VnmIipmamJmaqZ qqmqhkVVQzQEp5P/lpiImpmpl2momZuqurmYVURDMwQvl/+HiJiYqplld4iam5uaurhURERE ZVa+/5D/pnmImKmWWbp4mZurqpmYUwEUg2hWv/+U/6Znd4moZaqambqYmamamUM0NFt6AC+U /6ZWZmh2Wam7l5mqiaqpmDMzM2VqAC+L/7VbZWdmqZuqq4qbAEaFlzRDRERpAC+U/8Vn23ma q6qquniam6mahURUZHuZAC+X/9VFnIaKqpq6qbeqqau6dVVEdmeWZr7/hf/lRFvJmAC7i7uX iqq5qqh1RHa8lQAvhP/1REaeAKmPqqqGe6qquamolr7YVVaf/wAXgkRodwAAjnhlmazMqqmH Xft0VVav/wQXjkVpp2ZlVER3mevd27q/twK8ga3/gf+1BPmMZ4qqq73oeO3c7Nu6rAFPga3/ BC+BREQB9omb3u/u7qjJuczOAC+Bjv+C//6VBBcCEIhWd3d6vdzczLwCBYGe/wc4gtu5hwcS jFVVeHdlREVZVFVWff8YAIPty4dmBBuBd3UAL4G//ywAhu3LmodVVWkBllQA --upas-whrrytiegdkrobomxatoetrmwy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Sep 25 23:43:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Sep 25 23:43:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15527 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Sep 2003 23:43:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15523 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 23:43:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:43:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C377519D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1735C19AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B8F19AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E4D019AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PEmQO29008 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:26 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:26 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > ISPs say that something like 90+% of their BW goes to SPAM now. Two SPAM > blacklisting services just shut down due to DDOS attacks. That is good, where do you think spammers get their lists of relays and such? Besides they commit trespass and harassment in the process of doing their supposedly 'good' deeds. Blah, may the fascist bastards rot in hell. > Whatever we're doing, it ain't working very well. That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. You need to be using the existing harassment and trespass laws and careful choice of case to set precedent. Just think of somebody ringing your doorbell over and over... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 00:00:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 00:00:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15880 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 00:00:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15876 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 00:00:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:00:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9996219D8C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C326619D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:00:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6847519BD3; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newmail.esc8.net (unknown [65.240.106.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92B5619BFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <10309250728.AA02456@newmail.esc8.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Postmaster" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, zeedthefirst@hotmail.com, presotto@closedmind.org, plan9@kp.km.ua, boyd@insultant.net, lucio@proxima.alt.za To: matt@proweb.co.uk, enache@rdslink.ro, phxufwtw02@sneakemail.com, alex@usenix.org, r.szczesnycutethis@mail.ru, honne@lucent.com To: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com, chris@hollis-locke.com, uncover@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp, dbailey27@ameritech.net To: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com, jkw@eecs.harvard.edu, schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu, steve.simon@snellwilcox.com, martin@mca-ltd.com, chris@vitanuova.com To: forsyth@vitanuova.com, rcbilson@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca, rog@vitanuova.com, dmr@bell-labs.com, micah@cnm-vra.com, fst@centurytel.net To: rminnich@lanl.gov, fragment@nas.com, wes@village.com, nehal@ccs.lanl.gov, bhancock@rutgers.edu, brucee@chunder.com To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org, ravage@einstein.ssz.com, afrayedknot@thefrayedknot.armory.com, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com, gaph@swbell.net, steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk To: ralph@inputplus.co.uk, stevetux@sonic.net, vdharani@infernopark.com, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp, nigel@9fs.org, postmaster@iol.it To: mailer-daemon@aol.com, cancel@consumerinfo.com X-Mailer: Subject: [9fans] Virus Detected Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:28:34 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) A message for this address contained a virus and was not delivered. Virus detected - Worm.Automat.AHB The message was from From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 00:13:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 00:13:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16161 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 00:13:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16157 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 00:13:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:13:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71DF019D8A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BED719B44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22D5119B95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 308DD19B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8PF7vef019572 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:08:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8PF7pPP019571 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:51 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925170746.J8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Choate on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:48:26AM -0500 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:48 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:48:26AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > > > ISPs say that something like 90+% of their BW goes to SPAM now. Two SPAM > > blacklisting services just shut down due to DDOS attacks. > > That is good, where do you think spammers get their lists of relays and > such? Besides they commit trespass and harassment in the process of doing > their supposedly 'good' deeds. Blah, may the fascist bastards rot in hell. > To some extent, I agree with you. Early days of the Internet, disconnections were instigated by net-deities that had the respect of the community, these days, it's a matter of self-appointed, never challenged authority. On the other hand, the enemy isn't exactly playing clean either. > > Whatever we're doing, it ain't working very well. > > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. You need to be > using the existing harassment and trespass laws and careful choice of case > to set precedent. > Not in the USA (or anywhere else where there exists a culture of litigation). It used to be that "Justice is the interest of the strongets" (Aristotle, if I recall right) but power is now in the hands of the plutocrats. > Just think of somebody ringing your doorbell over and over... > More like somebody having wired your doorbell to a remote control that you can't disconnect. Not really a good analogy. And it's going to be expensive to prosecute in a court of law. Maybe if Oprah comes out strongly against SPAM, will we see some results. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 00:29:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 00:29:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16604 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 00:29:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16600 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 00:29:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:29:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B04419B95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3F7B19B1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C7D4199DC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 639E519A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PFYC429739 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:34:12 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030925170746.J8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:34:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:48:26AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > > > > > ISPs say that something like 90+% of their BW goes to SPAM now. Two SPAM > > > blacklisting services just shut down due to DDOS attacks. > > > > That is good, where do you think spammers get their lists of relays and > > such? Besides they commit trespass and harassment in the process of doing > > their supposedly 'good' deeds. Blah, may the fascist bastards rot in hell. > > > To some extent, I agree with you. Early days of the Internet, > disconnections were instigated by net-deities that had the respect > of the community, these days, it's a matter of self-appointed, > never challenged authority. On the other hand, the enemy isn't > exactly playing clean either. Nope, never have they been 'good'. I can say from personal experience that everytime I move my physical IP I see a pattern. The first is the hackers, the record so far is 24 minutes from going live to first port scans. Not a problem. What's interesting is that the spam load is nearly zero (as in 1-2 a day) until the first blacklist probes happen. Then within 72 hours there is a avalanche of spam. You call the blacklist and explain it to them and ask them to both remove you from their database (which if refused is basically indentured servitude since they make money off your system yet don't pay you for your participation) and cease probes of the machines (which after the first request to cease qualifies as harassment) and what do yo get? A "Fuck off". Why? Because they want the double stream of income. > > > Whatever we're doing, it ain't working very well. > > > > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. You need to be > > using the existing harassment and trespass laws and careful choice of case > > to set precedent. > > > Not in the USA (or anywhere else where there exists a culture of > litigation). It used to be that "Justice is the interest of the > strongets" (Aristotle, if I recall right) but power is now in the > hands of the plutocrats. If you want to be a victim of circumstances then you have the first clue of why you're observation has any truth. > > Just think of somebody ringing your doorbell over and over... > > > More like somebody having wired your doorbell to a remote control that > you can't disconnect. Not really a good analogy. Actually it is, the law sees no different between doing an act yourself or via a proxy. > And it's going to > be expensive to prosecute in a court of law. The first time. > Maybe if Oprah comes out strongly against SPAM, will we see some > results. Spam is speech, people have a right to try to talk to you. It is your responsibility to hand the 'no soliciting' or 'no trespass' signs on the property line. That's the fundamental flaw with the current mail mechanisms. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 00:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 00:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16676 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 00:36:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16672 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 00:36:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:36:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 013A219B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8E3C199DC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:36:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F37E219B1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.46.36.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA3BE199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [217.196.174.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/ic) with ESMTP id h8PFZQ1M007807 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:35:30 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup6-X25.kp.km.ua [217.196.174.13]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/kp-branch) with SMTP id h8PFZOeG099030 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:35:24 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <03092518353000.00510@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] isdn cards Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:37:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what isdn cards are supported? thanks From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:02:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:02:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17057 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:02:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17053 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:02:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:02:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C9FA19A87; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3263B19A77; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:02:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3AB719A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E650F19A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PFqu603512 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:52:56 -0400 Message-ID: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:06:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate: > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. You need to be > using the existing harassment and trespass laws and careful choice of case > to set precedent. > > Just think of somebody ringing your doorbell over and over... ...in which case you look out the window to get a good look at the perpetrator, call the cops and give a reliable description, perhaps including a car description, license plate, etc. Either that or you open the door and punch his lights out. Where do we get reliable ID information from a mail header? The bell is being rung by an innocent neighbor turned into a zombie by the real, unknown perpetrator. Boyd had the right idea (not the current one (though that one's good too)) but... let's see if I can find it... quoted it in my book... The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. When you have identity you can resort to your nice, civilized due process. Until then it's terror, plain and simple. If applying harrassment and trespass laws is effective against terror then our other big problem is solved, just serve criminal complaints and lawsuits against bin Laden et al. Wes Kussmaul From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:11:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:11:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17258 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:11:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17254 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:11:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:11:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E90519AF4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C282819A6B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D50A19A77; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 77D4D19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12806 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 16:11:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 38097 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 37064 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (David Presotto's message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:47:15 -0400") Message-ID: <867k3wj1gg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:07:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > Are you running an old style file server or a fossil+venti? It is an old style fileserver. I've created a new user account and there is the same problem. But after I =ABmkdir /n/dump=BB it works. Is it necessary to create /n/dump by hand? Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:16:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:16:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17374 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:16:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17370 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:16:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:16:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9103199D7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBD5D19A21; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:16:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3B4019A6B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E0F23199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12851 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 16:15:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 38179 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 37498 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863cekj17l.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Transfer cpu/auth server vom VMware to real hardware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:13:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, my cpu/auth server is running under vmware booting from the fileserver. Now I have a pc without harddisk which should be the new cpu/auth server. Is it sufficient to make a bootable floppy, load 9load and plan9.ini from floppy and get the rest via network? How do I create a bootable floppy? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:22:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:22:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17541 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:22:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17537 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:22:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:22:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 430C719ADA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7402A19A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5D6819A6B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7252199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <787b5529a9f626babbe4de6180c6a2ca@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Transfer cpu/auth server vom VMware to real hardware In-Reply-To: <863cekj17l.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cvyoyqpzklhwenkqrznjofcdpi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cvyoyqpzklhwenkqrznjofcdpi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit man format there's an example for making a bootable floopy. --upas-cvyoyqpzklhwenkqrznjofcdpi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 12:16:40 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 12:16:37 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CFE919A76; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86A06199D7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:16:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3B4019A6B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E0F23199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12851 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 16:15:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 38179 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 37498 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 16:13:18 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <863cekj17l.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Transfer cpu/auth server vom VMware to real hardware Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:13:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, my cpu/auth server is running under vmware booting from the fileserver. Now I have a pc without harddisk which should be the new cpu/auth server. Is it sufficient to make a bootable floppy, load 9load and plan9.ini from floppy and get the rest via network? How do I create a bootable floppy? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-cvyoyqpzklhwenkqrznjofcdpi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:22:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:22:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17549 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:22:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17545 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:22:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:22:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08EB319B05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD19019A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:22:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D64F19AB6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13CF819A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal In-Reply-To: <867k3wj1gg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-chmnexxgmjxzarrdhpbrikelsx" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-chmnexxgmjxzarrdhpbrikelsx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, unless you are running mntgen. --upas-chmnexxgmjxzarrdhpbrikelsx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 12:11:52 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 12:11:49 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C97BA19A89; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73DC419A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D50A19A77; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 77D4D19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12806 invoked by uid 66); 25 Sep 2003 16:11:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 38097 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 37064 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (David Presotto's message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:47:15 -0400") Message-ID: <867k3wj1gg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:07:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > Are you running an old style file server or a fossil+venti? It is an old style fileserver. I've created a new user account and there is the same problem. But after I =ABmkdir /n/dump=BB it works. Is it necessary to create /n/dump by hand? Many thanks Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage --upas-chmnexxgmjxzarrdhpbrikelsx-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 01:45:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 01:45:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18239 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 01:45:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18235 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 01:45:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 01:45:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5DB219AF2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA71C19A9F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32CB219AB4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DD6F19A9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A2ZDl-0003sc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F7314CE.241884EE@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20030925170746.J8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:41:46 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate wrote: > Spam is speech, people have a right to try to talk to you. Not unless you invite them to. If you're thinking about the 1st Amendment to the US constitution, that is just a prohibition against government suppression of otherwise normal political discourse, not permission for others to intrude themselves upon your attention. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:13:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:13:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18772 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:13:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18768 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:13:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:13:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E59919AE9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8F8119A1C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 317D219A66; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A873199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03678 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHBwj22599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251711.h8PHBwj22599@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fs dump wont work from terminal In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:07:59 +0200." <867k3wj1gg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:11:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias Teege writes: > It is an old style fileserver. I've created a new user account and > there is the same problem. But after I «mkdir /n/dump» it works. Is > it necessary to create /n/dump by hand? Normally, one runs mntgen, mounted on /n. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:14:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:14:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18779 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:14:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18775 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:14:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:14:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05F4F19AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E59D619AF4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:14:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19ED919AF4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF88219A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHK0U30908 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:20:00 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <3F7314CE.241884EE@null.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:20:00 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Jim Choate wrote: > > Spam is speech, people have a right to try to talk to you. > > Not unless you invite them to. Wrong, and it's demostrated many times before why this is wrong. If they don't have a right to try to contact you then how do they get your permission? The fundamental flaw in the 'unsolicted email' approach. It's called a "Catch 22". There is a deeper philosophical problem with respect to what is meant by democracy, individualism, and privacy. I suggest the following, Individualism and Economic Order F.A. Hayek ISBN 0-226-3209306 In particular read chapter 1, "Individualism: True or False", as it addresses this supposition head on, and demolishes it. If you withdraw from society, you lose your say in that society. You have no right to reap the benefits of a society if you don't participate. Otherwise it is simply theft. There are two types of activity in a democratic society, passive and active. In a democratic society the active options are left to your personal choice (ala Zamyatkins "We"), however the passive components are what -you owe others- as a member of that society. Freedom is not free. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:16:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:16:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18882 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:16:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18877 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:16:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:16:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E32A319B39; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6245319B00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E29819B00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA68119A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHLKP30916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:20 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Wes Kussmaul wrote: > ...in which case you look out the window to get a good look at the > perpetrator, call the cops and give a reliable description, perhaps > including a car description, license plate, etc. Either that or you open the > door and punch his lights out. What a bullshit example, you sit at home all day peeking out the window? What a paranoid streak you have. Face it, you live in a fantasy world of your paranoia. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18907 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:17:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18903 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:17:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:17:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8EF519B47; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFC1619B00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:17:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 223A319B23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61A6F19AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04838 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHGgj22699 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251716.h8PHGgj22699@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] drawterm sweepstakes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:10:02 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > Well I quit IBM about a month ago and besides doing 24/365 onsite computer > repair we're doing full-time P9 development. And no I'm not going to spend > a great deal of time talking about that at this point ;) > > open-forge.org So, when can we expect to see something come of this? > [...] > I basically sandboxed > upgrades of production systems and resolved problems before the customer > did. Over the the three years I also helped resolve technical questions > that had sales stalled, I had the only group that could respond fast > enough and had the tools and experience. > [...] You'll forgive me, but this sounds an awful lot like QA to me. It sounds like you ran acceptance tests for customers. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:20:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:20:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18958 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:20:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18954 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:20:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:20:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69D2919B51; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7AC719B00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E86F619B2E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AE9819AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05317 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHJgj22734 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251719.h8PHJgj22734@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:26 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:19:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. You know, Jim, every once in a while you start to make some sense, and say something that folks might find it worthwhile to listen to, and then you make a statement like this and come across as a megalomaniac, and it turns people off and they go back to ignoring you. If you want to make a difference, then I strongly suggest you change your approach slightly. A different demeanor would make all the difference in the world. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:27:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:27:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19150 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:27:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19146 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:27:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:27:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89E2B19B63; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B176C19B4B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:27:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00A1A19AFF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5CD919AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHWdN31039 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:32:39 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251719.h8PHJgj22734@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:32:39 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > You know, Jim, every once in a while you start to make some sense, and > say something that folks might find it worthwhile to listen to, and > then you make a statement like this and come across as a megalomaniac, > and it turns people off and they go back to ignoring you. If you want > to make a difference, then I strongly suggest you change your approach > slightly. A different demeanor would make all the difference in the > world. You really should take your own advice. Try arguing with facts instead of ad hominims which seems to be your forte. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:27:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:27:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19157 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:27:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19153 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:27:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:27:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00E3819B7B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F67A19AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B1B519AFF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E0C019AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHQQj22789 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:21:20 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Wes Kussmaul wrote: > > ...in which case you look out the window to get a good look at the > > perpetrator, call the cops and give a reliable description, perhaps > > including a car description, license plate, etc. Either that or you open the > > door and punch his lights out. > > What a bullshit example, you sit at home all day peeking out the window? > > What a paranoid streak you have. > > Face it, you live in a fantasy world of your paranoia. [This is a perfect example backing up my earlier thesis.] But to address the point.... If you're not home, why would you care if someone stood outside your house all day ringing your doorbell, which was the example you gave? As long as it's not disturbing your pets, who cares? They're hardly wasting your time, just their own. Then again, if someone is repeatedly ringing your doorbell, and you're home, and it bothers you, it doesn't take that big a stretch of the imagination to come to the conclusion that you could then, at that point, have a look out the window and see who's doing it (or punch his or her or their lights out [or call their mom]). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:29:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:29:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19179 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:29:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19175 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:29:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:29:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6C0B19B05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2C3C19AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5896919B00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4C5019AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <3F7314CE.241884EE@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:28:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,OPT_OUT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) As far as I can tell, using laws to stop spammers is not very effective. Spam is essentially a nuisance. There are indeed many local nuisance laws. However, an attempt to injunct someone in another state from bothering you is pretty hard. Local laws against bulk faxing got passed partially with the support of businesses that claimed the fax spam was wasting their paper and losing them business when their fax machines didn't have paper to take orders. Similar argument may work with spam but only once the problem gets much worse than it is. Read HR 2515 for a fairly reasoned description of the problem, though the solution wouldn't really help much. They request that each sender (not transmitter) of spam have an opt-out mechanism and that they have valid reply info so that you can opt out. However, you get into the same problem as opting out of telemarketing calls. If you have to opt-out with each spammer, you could easily spend your whole life opting out. A opt-out registry would be nice, but look what's happening with the FTC's do-not-call registry. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:31:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:31:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19209 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:31:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19205 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:31:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:31:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1291619B95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2E5B19B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F090619B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37AA919B6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHUBj22851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251730.h8PHUBj22851@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:32:39 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:30:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > You really should take your own advice. You're projecting again. > Try arguing with facts instead of ad hominims which seems to be your > forte. Wow, you know, you really amaze me. You really do live in a fantasy world. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:38:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:38:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19305 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:38:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19301 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:38:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:38:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47A2D19BA7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4E2D19B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C71B19B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD19D19B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09821 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PHbBj22897 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251737.h8PHbBj22897@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:28:12 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,OPT_OUT,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > > As far as I can tell, using laws to stop spammers is not > very effective. Spam is essentially a nuisance. There > are indeed many local nuisance laws. However, an attempt > to injunct someone in another state from bothering you > is pretty hard. > > Local laws against bulk faxing got passed partially with the > support of businesses that claimed the fax spam was wasting > their paper and losing them business when their fax machines > didn't have paper to take orders. Similar argument may work > with spam but only once the problem gets much worse than > it is. Read HR 2515 for a fairly reasoned description of > the problem, though the solution wouldn't really help much. > They request that each sender (not transmitter) of spam > have an opt-out mechanism and that they have valid reply > info so that you can opt out. However, you get into the same > problem as opting out of telemarketing calls. If you have > to opt-out with each spammer, you could easily spend your > whole life opting out. Or they just set up shop off-shore and ignore your laws. Unlike international phone calls, the cost deterent for doing so isn't nearly as strong. > A opt-out registry would be nice, but look what's happening > with the FTC's do-not-call registry. Actually, I understand that Congress fast-tracked a bill granting the FTC explicit permission to host a national do-not-call registry, effectively voiding the court's descision that it was out of the scope of the FTC's authority. I believe it goes to the Senate later today (or maybe tomorrow or something). Anyway, with luck, it'll be signed into law before October 1, unless Bush decides it would hurt his buddies in the telemarketing business. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:40:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:40:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19372 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:40:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19368 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:40:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:40:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2AA419B7F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42634199DD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F48F19AD8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17B8B199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHjKo31111 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:45:20 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:45:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > But to address the point.... If you're not home, why would you care if > someone stood outside your house all day ringing your doorbell, which > was the example you gave? What makes you think they're going to sit there and do it over and over? It's the same thing as if they do it once everyday at 4pm for a year. Trespass isn't a crime if you're not home....hmmmmm How about if somebody breaks into your house and watches your television when you're not home? That's not burglary? The reality is that ones control over their property and access to it is their right whether they are at home or not. It's the principle that matters. What happened to -your deciding what to do with your property-? You don't believe in that apparently. Dan, you have a fundamental conflict here you need to deal with, in a manner other than emotional I might add. Why is emotional argument worthless with respect to what is right or wrong in a democracy? Why is one of the goals of this country the pursuit of happiness, why not a guarantee of happiness? And why is happiness important? First, people are inherently unhappy. Everybody. So somebody saying you can't do this because it makes me unhappy is a empty argument. Second, what can possibly make everyone happy? Nothing, we each have our own goals and desires so a single approach to solving the problems of life won't work. Not that it hasn't stopped many people from trying (eg socialism). Now let's address your earlier comment about my 99.9% statement. If it were not true we wouldn't have topics like 'critical thinking' and we wouldn't have the spam problem in the first place. Each of these people would understand what their role and responsibility in society was and they would follow it. Since we do have this problem then clearly the vast majority of people don't do it. Hence, I stand by my statement. Most people don't think analytically very well at all, they respond in emotional ways which in the long run are self-defeating. If they weren't then again, why do we have the problems we have? In this entire discussion you haven't once offered real counter examples or drilled down anywhere close to basic principles of personal responsiblity. Your forte seems to be the strawman and the ad hominim. As to megalomania, I'd say your behaviour is more akin to thinking oneself to be grand than I. Your commentary is shallow and lacks any logical depth. You are of course welcome to your opinions, even if you can't back them up with reasonable arguments or facts. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:41:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:41:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19404 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:41:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19400 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:41:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:41:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D11E419AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C9A019BAB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:41:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A1F6319AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A48219B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHlAN31123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:47:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:47:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > As far as I can tell, using laws to stop spammers is not > very effective. Spam is essentially a nuisance. I"m with you 100% here, I see the only workable solution as a technical one controlled by the individual or groups of individuals who share the same views. The catch is that there must be a mechanism from that behaviour getting out of hand and infringing others rights. That isn't a technical solution, nor is it based in criminal law. The only solution there is civil action. The approaches that are being tried today are not based on this simple and clear realization. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:42:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:42:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19411 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:42:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19407 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:42:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:42:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA16019BD4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C585119B6E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:42:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7032619BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A739819AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivfikb.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.139] helo=acm.org) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2a7B-0005rS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:41:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3F732878.7040609@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:40:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,OPT_OUT,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It looks as though the congress is acting to pass a law that would effect much of what the administrative law would do, with respect to the do-not-call list. For the spam problem, we need a "killer-app," mailizard, which, like a lizard, just hangs-out waiting for insects to come by. David Presotto wrote: > As far as I can tell, using laws to stop spammers is not > very effective. Spam is essentially a nuisance. There > are indeed many local nuisance laws. However, an attempt > to injunct someone in another state from bothering you > is pretty hard. > > Local laws against bulk faxing got passed partially with the > support of businesses that claimed the fax spam was wasting > their paper and losing them business when their fax machines > didn't have paper to take orders. Similar argument may work > with spam but only once the problem gets much worse than > it is. Read HR 2515 for a fairly reasoned description of > the problem, though the solution wouldn't really help much. > They request that each sender (not transmitter) of spam > have an opt-out mechanism and that they have valid reply > info so that you can opt out. However, you get into the same > problem as opting out of telemarketing calls. If you have > to opt-out with each spammer, you could easily spend your > whole life opting out. > > A opt-out registry would be nice, but look what's happening > with the FTC's do-not-call registry. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:44:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:44:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19448 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:44:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19444 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:44:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:44:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E90DC19BBF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D893C19BCD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:44:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24A1E19BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A51519B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PHYx608304 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:59 -0400 Message-ID: <0b6501c3838d$4c211610$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From: "Jim Choate" > Try arguing with facts instead of ad hominims which seems to be your > forte. That's ad hominems, not ad hominims. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:50:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:50:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19600 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:50:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19596 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:50:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:50:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C21919B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F5D519BCD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F42519BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4FBD19B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHtPS31231 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:55:25 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Inferno: CNN.com - House votes for do-not-call registry - Sep. 25, 2003 (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:55:25 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "50 million Americans can't be wrong." Let's see, there are 300M Americans...this is a logical flaw, an appeal to the majority when in fact it isn't even a majority. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/25/congress.no.call/index.html Now let me make this clear I support the do-not-call list, in fact I believe it should be the defacto and people should have to sign up to be called, not the other way around. Such an approach would resolve the 'unsolicted' issues as well. As usual we have the cart in front of the horse. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:51:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:51:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19637 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:51:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19632 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:51:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:51:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C5EB19C64; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7AAF619BE1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAF8219BF9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 851CF19BFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PHuf831247 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:56:42 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <0b6501c3838d$4c211610$6400a8c0@dell01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:56:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Wes Kussmaul wrote: > > From: "Jim Choate" > > > Try arguing with facts instead of ad hominims which seems to be your > > forte. > > That's ad hominems, not ad hominims. And you just commited it. Don't address the issue, but the speaker. Go back to sleep wanna be english teacher. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 02:58:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 02:58:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19768 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 02:58:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19759 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 02:58:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:58:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6460219AFE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D9E919A65; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FB1E19A6E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4188919A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PHno609000 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:49:51 -0400 Message-ID: <0bb001c3838f$5fcae400$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > > > > Try arguing with facts instead of ad hominims which seems to be your > > > forte. > > > > That's ad hominems, not ad hominims. > > And you just commited it. Don't address the issue, but the speaker. > > Go back to sleep wanna be english teacher. Hey, that's a GREAT example of an ad hominem for my first class! Thanks! WK From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:04:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:04:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19866 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:04:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19862 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:04:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:04:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17B0719B77; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5320A19A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:04:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0EDB19B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B78519A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 2DA393939; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id EC9A73937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from seacaptain.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.54]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1484.199.98.17.54.1064512643.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <200309251719.h8PHJgj22734@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:48:26 CDT." <200309251719.h8PHJgj22734@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. Are there a thousand of us that such a measurement means anything? Or are there 500 9fans and one of us half understands something? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:04:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:04:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19873 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:04:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19869 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:04:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:04:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB12C19C05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43F4119A95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:04:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78C9519B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E0BF19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PIA7S31503 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:10:07 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <0bb001c3838f$5fcae400$6400a8c0@dell01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:10:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Wes Kussmaul wrote: > Hey, that's a GREAT example of an ad hominem for my first class! Thanks! Actually it's not, he had no position to attack other than his desire to denigrate via personal attack. If this is the best reasoning you have then I pity your class. But they're young and there's hope they'll hit somebody who argues facts instead of feelings. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:06:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:06:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19912 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:06:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19908 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:06:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:06:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB24319C01; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D069119B7E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0AA919A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4AF919A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15192 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PI5Nj23029 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251805.h8PI5Nj23029@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:45:20 CDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23026.1064513122.1@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > But to address the point.... If you're not home, why would you care if > > someone stood outside your house all day ringing your doorbell, which > > was the example you gave? > > What makes you think they're going to sit there and do it over and over? > It's the same thing as if they do it once everyday at 4pm for a year. If they do it every day at the same time, and it bothers you, it's also a big leap of imagination to see where someone might be peaking out the window at that time one day to see who's bothering them. If they're not doing it regularly and annoyingly, then it's not really harassment, is it? The Fedex guy rang my doorbell yesterday. I opened the door and got my package from him. I hardly consider that harassment, as I understand the term. > Trespass isn't a crime if you're not home....hmmmmm How about if somebody > breaks into your house and watches your television when you're not home? > That's not burglary? The reality is that ones control over their property > and access to it is their right whether they are at home or not. It's the > principle that matters. > > What happened to -your deciding what to do with your property-? You don't > believe in that apparently. No, you just don't understand what I was saying. Go back and reread it. What I was saying is that if someone is actively harassing you, it's not being `paranoid' to try and figure out who they are. Maybe one way to do that is peak out the window when someone is actually engaged in the act of harassing you. If, on the other hand, you don't know that someone is trying to harass you, they can't really be said to be harassing you, can they? They're certainly not doing a bang-up job of it. I would have thought this was self-evident, as would most reasonable people. > Dan, you have a fundamental conflict here you need to deal with, in a > manner other than emotional I might add. I've already proposed a technical solution. Why don't you get your army of programmers in OpenForge! to go implement it? My arguments aren't emotional. > Why is emotional argument worthless with respect to what is right or wrong > in a democracy? Why is one of the goals of this country the pursuit of > happiness, why not a guarantee of happiness? And why is happiness > important? First, people are inherently unhappy. Everybody. So somebody > saying you can't do this because it makes me unhappy is a empty argument. > Second, what can possibly make everyone happy? Nothing, we each have our > own goals and desires so a single approach to solving the problems of life > won't work. Not that it hasn't stopped many people from trying (eg > socialism). What does this have to do with anything? > Now let's address your earlier comment about my 99.9% statement. If it > were not true we wouldn't have topics like 'critical thinking' and we > wouldn't have the spam problem in the first place. Each of these people > would understand what their role and responsibility in society was and > they would follow it. > > Since we do have this problem then clearly the vast majority of people > don't do it. No, we have the spam problem because some people aren't very nice and are willing to take advantage of others. Period. Don't try to disect this into some philosophical argument. That's just elitist, and you're not that clever. > Hence, I stand by my statement. Most people don't think analytically very > well at all, they respond in emotional ways which in the long run are > self-defeating. If they weren't then again, why do we have the problems we > have? Once again, because there are some bad apples out there who took advantage of a poorly-conceived technical infrastructure with so much mass that it's almost impossible to displace now. You can fault the vision of the people who designed SMTP and didn't make provisions for authentication, but it has nothing to do with the things you think it does. > In this entire discussion you haven't once offered real counter examples > or drilled down anywhere close to basic principles of personal > responsiblity. Your forte seems to be the strawman and the ad hominim. Because it has nothing to do with those things. But let's talk about personal responsibility: you have a message you want to get across. You have a responsibility to yourself to try and do so in the way that will make your audience most receptive. By all accounts, you fail at that. > As to megalomania, I'd say your behaviour is more akin to thinking oneself > to be grand than I. Your commentary is shallow and lacks any logical > depth. Jim, why are you so hostile to having people debate your ideas? > You are of course welcome to your opinions, even if you can't back them up > with reasonable arguments or facts. Projecting. Ugh. I'm amazed. Jim, you're sick, and need help. Go seek professional councilling to deal with your feelings of inferiority that are manifesting themselves in megalomania. Really. I can't spend any more time on it; it just makes my head hurt. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:06:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:06:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19919 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:06:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19915 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:06:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:06:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0174A19C65; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E33719B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E35F419A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 225FE19A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:05:43 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Why is one of the goals of this country the pursuit of > happiness, why not a guarantee of happiness? Why not force people to be happy altogether? (Btw, Zamyatin's "We" was just as relevant in Soviet Russia as it is in Bush's America). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:09:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:09:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19966 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:09:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19950 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:09:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:09:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EAB319CA2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 536E919C01; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68F6319A2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6481D19A2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PI89j23063 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251808.h8PI89j23063@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:10:07 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > If this is the best reasoning you have then I pity your class. But they're > young and there's hope they'll hit somebody who argues facts instead of > feelings. Like you, you mean? One of these days, I'm going to write a Choate-bot to spit out random Choate-like sentences. Most of them will just be, ``consider suicide.'' ``Up the meds.'' ``I pity your class.'' ``Fuck your T-shirts.'' ``Tact sucks.'' etc, etc, etc. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:11:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:11:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20120 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20116 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:11:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9773019BFD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BB1819BFD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E71C419CBC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5B5819C75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PIGPS31648 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:25 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:16:25 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > Why is one of the goals of this country the pursuit of > > happiness, why not a guarantee of happiness? > > Why not force people to be happy altogether? (Btw, Zamyatin's "We" > was just as relevant in Soviet Russia as it is in Bush's America). Actually it's the book that caused both 1984 and Brave New World to be written. It's amazing how time after time people who steal with skill get fame and fortune but the people who did the actual original work get forgotten but for a few (eg Tesla and radio). -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:13:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:13:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20147 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:13:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20143 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:13:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:13:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A35919AD8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5A7419A95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2C3A19A95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE7B8199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICgXx019521 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:42 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICfPK002272 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICf7W002777 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251737.h8PHbBj22897@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Or they just set up shop off-shore and ignore your laws. Unlike > international phone calls, the cost deterent for doing so isn't > nearly as strong. that was the complaint of the blacklisters. It was hard to take anonymous people in China to court under US Laws. China, for some reason, did not appear to want to cooperate. Actually, concerning the current tone of this discussion, is it not comforting that we didn't end up with a world where us rational, logical, scientific types run the show? Man, what a place that would be if our words on this list could be backed up with an army and secret police ... oh yeah ... been there, done that, ca. Oct. 1917. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:15:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:15:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20196 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20192 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:15:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:15:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F5B619B0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0351319A95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:15:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9027D19B0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50352199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PILBi31689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:12 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251808.h8PI89j23063@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:11 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Like you, you mean? One of these days, I'm going to write a Choate-bot > to spit out random Choate-like sentences. Most of them will just be, > ``consider suicide.'' ``Up the meds.'' ``I pity your class.'' ``Fuck > your T-shirts.'' ``Tact sucks.'' etc, etc, etc. Dan, as usual your argument is so full of holes. Now go back and look at the context of those statements instead of taking them out of it and using them to your own emotional ends. Each one of them was in response to others out of line behaviour. I stand behind them in their context. Let's pick one, it's my favorite, 'fuck your t-shirts' was said to the VN rep who made one of the most snide and stupid comments I've ever heard from a commercial rep to a user group. It deservicd a lot more than that, why did I say it? Becuase VN has been completey irresponsible in the way it deals with user groups and the promotion of Plan 9. The amount of effort and work they've put into is clearly demonstrates they really have no intent on selling Plan 9 to a -growing- audience. That attitude is what I say 'fuck you' to and say so today. Oh, you forgot the 'inbred' comment....you're slipping. It says a lot that you keep this on hand saved up for an attempted shot across the bow. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:18:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:18:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20378 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:18:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20374 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:18:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:18:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6689619BB4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B631119AE9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:18:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 977C619AE9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72629199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PINKF31739 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:23:20 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <1484.199.98.17.54.1064512643.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:23:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. > > Are there a thousand of us that such a measurement means anything? Or are > there 500 9fans and one of us half understands something? 300M is a decent estimate of the current population. OK, if you understand the problem Joel what is your solution? Don't have one? Then I guess you go in that 99.9% who don't understand it. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:19:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:19:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20390 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:19:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20386 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:19:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:19:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FE6219B93; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B465319AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4562419B9E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07F3E19A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PIPB831759 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:25:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:25:11 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > Actually, concerning the current tone of this discussion, is it not > comforting that we didn't end up with a world where us rational, logical, > scientific types run the show? Man, what a place that would be if our > words on this list could be backed up with an army and secret police ... > oh yeah ... been there, done that, ca. Oct. 1917. There was nothing rational or scientific about socialism. Socialism is based on fear. Stalin and Lenin were neither sane nor scientific. Consider their biology program as an example. You cast one as another, and do a disservise in the process. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:20:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:20:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20410 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20406 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:20:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CE1F19B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE3CE19AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:20:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE3CF19BEC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1C8419BAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <54a8dd26d4aef051c6c100b35ff8f100@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yquoedbiutmrgdqmjwikfuedwi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yquoedbiutmrgdqmjwikfuedwi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Bush regime is trying to correct that slight problem. Two countries down, a whole bunch to go. --upas-yquoedbiutmrgdqmjwikfuedwi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 14:13:39 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 14:13:37 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0096919B10; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39922199DD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2C3A19A95; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE7B8199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICgXx019521 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:42 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICfPK002272 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PICf7W002777 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251737.h8PHbBj22897@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Or they just set up shop off-shore and ignore your laws. Unlike > international phone calls, the cost deterent for doing so isn't > nearly as strong. that was the complaint of the blacklisters. It was hard to take anonymous people in China to court under US Laws. China, for some reason, did not appear to want to cooperate. Actually, concerning the current tone of this discussion, is it not comforting that we didn't end up with a world where us rational, logical, scientific types run the show? Man, what a place that would be if our words on this list could be backed up with an army and secret police ... oh yeah ... been there, done that, ca. Oct. 1917. ron --upas-yquoedbiutmrgdqmjwikfuedwi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:27:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:27:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20519 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:27:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20515 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:27:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:27:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2234619CC8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CBB219B96; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:27:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C446119AEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6C48199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20217 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PIQ7j23163 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251826.h8PIQ7j23163@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:11 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:26:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > Dan, as usual your argument is so full of holes. Now go back and look at > the context of those statements instead of taking them out of it and using > them to your own emotional ends. > > Each one of them was in response to others out of line behaviour. I stand > behind them in their context. Wow. What a great way to resolve your disagreements with others. Whenever someone says something you don't like, extend your middle finger and shout, ``fuck you!'' > Let's pick one, it's my favorite, 'fuck your t-shirts' was said to the > VN rep who made one of the most snide and stupid comments I've ever heard > from a commercial rep to a user group. It deservicd a lot more than that, > why did I say it? Becuase VN has been completey irresponsible in the way > it deals with user groups and the promotion of Plan 9. The amount of > effort and work they've put into is clearly demonstrates they really have > no intent on selling Plan 9 to a -growing- audience. That attitude is what > I say 'fuck you' to and say so today. Actually, you made the comment to presotto, who doesn't work for Vita Nuova, and as far as I know, never did. What's more, you flipped out over something that Charles Forsyth said that was entirely innocent and not rude at all, but you interpreted it as such. When it was pointed out to you why it wasn't rude, your flared. > Oh, you forgot the 'inbred' comment....you're slipping. Yes, I did forget it. But there's such a large corpus to choose from, I can hardly be faulted for it. > It says a lot that you keep this on hand saved up for an attempted shot > across the bow. Please. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:30:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:30:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20554 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:30:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20550 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:30:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:30:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EF1D19B0B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B19A619A65; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5209B1998A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5487919A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PITlXx022355 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:29:47 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PITlPK009737 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:29:47 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PITl7W003413 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:29:47 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:29:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > You cast one as another, and do a disservise in the process. you're right. we're worse. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:31:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:31:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20576 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:31:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20572 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:31:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:31:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E185219B7A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3693719B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B75019A14; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4E231998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8PHYiAo000938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm as guilty as any about shooting spitwads from the back of the room, but if the ego battles must continue with such fervency perhaps we could create another list so people can insult each other and still feel like they have an audience? Or maybe all that wasted energy could be redirected at writing a web browser? Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:32:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:32:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20589 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:32:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20585 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:32:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:32:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBCCC19B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 704F319A1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FFB119B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 949A619A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PINW610597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:23:32 -0400 Message-ID: <0be201c38394$1495b5a0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ron minnich wrote > that was the complaint of the blacklisters. It was hard to take anonymous > people in China to court under US Laws. China, for some reason, did not > appear to want to cooperate. And there is more recourse against the operator of a server in China than, say, an operator of a dozen servers with one in Nigeria, one in Antigua, one in the Jersey Islands, etc. Picture an Akamai for thieves and pornographers. > Actually, concerning the current tone of this discussion, is it not > comforting that we didn't end up with a world where us rational, logical, > scientific types run the show? Man, what a place that would be if our > words on this list could be backed up with an army and secret police ... > oh yeah ... been there, done that, ca. Oct. 1917. Isn't Slobodan Milosevic a psychiatrist? Howbout the remarkable intellectual named Josef Goebbels? wk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:32:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:32:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20597 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:32:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20593 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:32:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:32:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 07F7F19BD5; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DD0C19A76; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3ECF219B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6698F1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PIbuw31943 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:56 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <200309251826.h8PIQ7j23163@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:56 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Wow. What a great way to resolve your disagreements with others. > Whenever someone says something you don't like, extend your middle > finger and shout, ``fuck you!'' No Dan, that's you. It's not that I don't agree with them, that is irrelevant to the comments I made. My response, as with you butthead, is to the tone of your submission and it's intent. There are three ways to say something, positive, neutral, and negative. Say something to me negative expect to get a negative back. I don't start it but I'll damn well finish it if I have to. As usual you take it out of context. Ta ta. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:33:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:33:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20634 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:33:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20629 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:33:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:33:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A7C919C05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CB2719A1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CB5F1998A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59C5B1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21446 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PIVxj23261 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309251831.h8PIVxj23261@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:44 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It exists. Hangar18-general@open-forge.org. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:34:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:34:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20654 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:34:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20650 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:34:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:34:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA79E19C0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46C5419C48; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C4F919C28; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C89A19A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PIdmS31973 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:39:48 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:39:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > > You cast one as another, and do a disservise in the process. > > you're right. we're worse. I'm not sure I agree with that. I can say that during the 20th century several million peoples were killed simply because they didn't agree with one party or another. I have no desire to see that continued. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:38:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:38:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20731 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:38:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20727 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:38:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:38:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FD5619CAA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60DC019BD1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 197B619C28; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 898EA19A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 5C05C3939; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 060D13937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from seacaptain.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.54]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1801.199.98.17.54.1064514666.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <200309251826.h8PIQ7j23163@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Will someone accept a new name for the anti-neutron? Even with the neutron's charge, an antiparicle *still* exists. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:38:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:38:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20738 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:38:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20734 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:38:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:38:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0022819C48; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D927719BD1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:38:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E02B19C28; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B557519A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PITF610885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:29:15 -0400 Message-ID: <0be801c38394$e11d5420$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:43:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From Jim Choate > Dan, as usual your argument is so full of holes. Now go back and look at > the context of those statements instead of taking them out of it and using > them to your own emotional ends. > > Each one of them was in response to others out of line behaviour. I stand > behind them in their context. Hey, Jim, I admit the spelling correction was just to push your buttons (and I admit to enjoying the result) but how was my preceding message that continued your doorbell metaphor out of line? Wes From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20837 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:45:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20833 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:45:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:45:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D43C19CC8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9585419A14; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E5AE19BF0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 750EF19A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <185b75904663dac5cd24a50a729d1ea8@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <1801.199.98.17.54.1064514666.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:44:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) nortuen? nice to see some relevance coming to the discussion. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:47:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:47:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20905 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20901 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:47:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFF4819BF0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E547F19B0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:47:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DD0319B8D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C7D019B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6956c36e2aeac3bfee7cdebbff99cd76@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <1484.199.98.17.54.1064512643.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:46:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu Sep 25 14:04:56 EDT 2003, salomo3@cooper.edu wrote: > > That's because 99.9% of you don't understand the problem. > > Are there a thousand of us that such a measurement means anything? Or are > there 500 9fans and one of us half understands something? > > --Joel Or maybe we're just 2000 halfwits. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 03:52:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 03:52:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20994 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 03:52:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20990 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 03:52:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:52:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E09019C9E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C41A19B2F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:52:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C212119B0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC8FF19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:51:32 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There was nothing rational or scientific about socialism. Socialism is > based on fear. Stalin and Lenin were neither sane nor scientific. Consider > their biology program as an example. Marx and Engels were scientific. Lenin too, to the extent that he contemplated on the previous two's musings. Socialism (and Communism for that matter) are based on a very solid theoretical background. Pity they didn't force you to read "Das Kapital" in high school :) Ultimately it didn't work in Russia for the same reason it wouldn't work in Texas -- the people aren't right for it there. It works on other places -- look at Sweden. So many russians come to Canada to discover that indeed socialism could be, and is, implemented. But I digress. What was the original topic of discussion again? Oh, right, Plan 9... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:00:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:00:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21184 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:00:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21180 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:00:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:00:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D356C19CEF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BC4519CCA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:00:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C30A19B93; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA1E419B2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PJ5Jw32273 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:19 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <0be801c38394$e11d5420$6400a8c0@dell01> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Wes Kussmaul wrote: > Hey, Jim, I admit the spelling correction was just to push your buttons (and > I admit to enjoying the result) but how was my preceding message that > continued your doorbell metaphor out of line? I wasn't addressing that message. The point of the doorbell analogy is to make some comparison between well understood limits on behavior and how that maps onto new technology. It's just like the 4th search and the courts running around asking questions about this that or the other being allowed. The bottem line is that if you have probable cause any method is allowed. What the courts want to avoid is the probable cause in the first place. In general (and if it isn't general why are the laws there and were passed with so little opposition?) the powers that be want to make sure that we keep doing the same old same old. It means the status quo stays, but that isn't the point of a free market. The point of a free market is to find better ways, this means those who stick to the old ways lose what they got. Simply because you're rich today doesn't mean you have a right to keep it tomorrow, if it did how did you get it in the first place (I'm assuming your business was more efficient and not more criminal but examples of both abound)? The real point that few seem to get is that the means or mechanism isn't the issue. How one does something abusive is irrelevant, what we punish is being abusive. That the current law recognized electrons tied to a person as sufficient to hold the person accountable for their behavior yet doesn't recognize that other electrons acting in proxy for that person in another technology doesn't is a flaw in the law, the technology is irrelevant. Whether I ring your doorbell or your sendmail, it is still yours to decide how it should be used (within limits of course). The purpose of a doorbell is to let people know they have visitors. The same for a street address or a email address. When somebody abuses that then nail their scummy ass to the wall for a warning to the next reprobate. Another aspect is that business don't have rights (irrespective of the wrong headed laws that was passed after the Civil War) and yet we as citizens have sat on our butts and been lead to a world where business now controls the very system that was put up to protect us from it. It amazes me that so few people understand Santyana. Part of that was the growth of socialism in the late 1800's and how different ideas have crept into other political views. Look at the way the personal income tax was passed. The mechanism alone is enough, in a honest democracy, to have it invalidated. Consider, my right to religion and the 1st stricture against infringing it. Yet the tax laws do that every time that a person is put to death using public funds. I am forced to participate in the murder of another human being. Now some will argue that what they did justified this. Bullshit. Let he without stone cast the first stone. And what did the person in that example who was without sind od? Told the adultress to go home and sin no more. Stop throwing stones. One persons failure does not justify your own. But one does have a right to use force in -immediate- self defence to ensure that such an attack against themselves and future attacks against others are stopped at that point in time. Once that immediacy issue is over, the killer is in custody, no immediate threat remains and hence no justification for capital punishment remains. A similar failure in legal logic is the 'fire in a theatre' argument about controlling speech. Consider if I cause damage in a theatre, even with speech, the owner of the theatre and the patrons harmed have both civil and criminal recourse to make me pay. However, the courts use this in a very slimey manner to justify -a priori- limitations on speech with the supposition that harm -might- occur. Mainly harm to their political or economic position. It's just a guess on my part but a reasonably well democracy could probably function on about 200 laws. They just need to be based on principle and not political/economic expediency. Hope that is clearer. To all and sundry, I've other things to do now that are way more important. I'm out of here, color me Casper as I'm going to d-key on my end from this point on. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:01:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:01:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21210 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21206 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:01:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:01:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAC0C19D01; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FC0D19CCA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:01:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A51AE19B47; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4149119B2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8PJ6ao32281 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > Marx and Engels were scientific. Not hardly, they certainly threw numbers around but that's hardly scientific. Try reading a Communist Manifesto sometime. I can hardly get through the first section without giving up in frustration. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:22:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:22:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21588 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:22:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21584 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:22:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:22:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DCC819B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97F5A199D2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:22:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3641419AC1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E914199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLgXx001938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:42 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLfPK031946 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:42 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLf7W005481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] 9 boots 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I mentioned that it would be nice to have /dev/rebootfile to load a file, then do kfscmd halt, so we would have a really clean shutdown/reboot scenario. It was pointed out that adding another file to #s is hardly a good idea. So, could we add another command to /dev/reboot? Currently we have two commands for /dev/reboot reboot and reboot filename could we add rebootfile filename e.g. you could then do this: echo 'rebootfile /386/test' > /dev/reboot disk/kfscmd sync disk/kfscmd halt echo reboot > /dev/reboot Is this acceptable? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:27:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:27:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21674 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:27:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21670 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:27:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:27:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D0BF719B9B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA58A19B94; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:27:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4501D19B68; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6513619AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5512268 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 19:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 19:26:01 -0000 Message-ID: <011c01c3839a$cb436620$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:25:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Or maybe all that wasted energy could be > redirected at writing a web browser? sounds like a plan, but it's an 'army of programmers' because of the complexity of the problem. i don't like the exploder, but it works a darn sight better than netscrape. unless i'm missing something, this is a serious 'death march'. mothra might be a start and the netscrape code is pub domain (iirc and probably bloody awful). duff would know what to do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:32:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:32:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21761 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:32:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21757 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:32:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:32:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDB3C19B10; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A31919B6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B54C019B6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE6919BAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4bf3f15d61c9da101c8a91a9c54c9036@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <011c01c3839a$cb436620$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:30:47 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>duff would know what to do. i think he did: he stopped (didn't he) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:34:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:34:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21794 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21789 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:34:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8712819C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CDFA19B6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:34:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12C8019C05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-11.noos.net [212.198.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ABF319B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 154849751 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 19:33:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.82 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 19:33:02 -0000 Message-ID: <012601c3839b$c61154e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:32:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There are three ways to say something, > > positive, neutral, and negative. > > Say something to me negative expect to get a negative back. I don't start > it but I'll damn well finish it if I have to. there are 3 answers to every question: - yes - no - hmm, judgement call most Spec Ops forces do mock interrogations. what they want is intelligent killers and not serious psychopaths. the latter are always failed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:36:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:36:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21835 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:36:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21831 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:36:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:36:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D296C19C05; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F75F19A1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 227DA19C0B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53EAE199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:35:25 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Not hardly, they certainly threw numbers around but that's hardly > scientific. *poof*, there goes 70 years worth of Dialectic Materialism in the Soviet Union.. they've been living a lie all these years, behind the Iron Courtain :) With apologies to D. Adams: "The Great Hyperlobic Omni-Cognate Neutron Wrangler," said Deep Thought thoroughly rolling the r's, "could talk all four legs off an Arcturan MegaDonkey - but only Choate could persuade it to go for a walk afterwards." From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:36:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:36:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21842 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:36:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21838 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:36:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:36:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D62119CEB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC6319A1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47FCC19B7D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D4CB199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5242a264d58cea1f282b7d81b87fa21f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <4bf3f15d61c9da101c8a91a9c54c9036@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is howard's browser being used in Inferno at all? The auto translated limbo->c version 'i' is pretty crufty but only because the conversion never got finished. It would be good starting point. Even if you disagree with the style, it is relatively small and might have pieces that can be salvaged. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21965 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:44:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21961 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:44:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3461419CC8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FE0619A89; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:44:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 261DC19B78; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-15.noos.net [212.198.2.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C8B219A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24865 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 19:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.123 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 19:43:28 -0000 Message-ID: <014f01c3839d$3b7a97e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:43:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm not sure I agree with that. I can say that during the 20th century > several million peoples were killed simply because they didn't agree with > one party or another. > > I have no desire to see that continued. There's nothing wrong with shooting, just as long as the right people get shot. -- Harry Calahan From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22041 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22035 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:48:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0004319CEC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0F8619A89; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0238619C9D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1536819A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55914347 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 19:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 19:47:00 -0000 Message-ID: <015901c3839d$b9da4720$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309251826.h8PIQ7j23163@augusta.math.psu.edu> <1801.199.98.17.54.1064514666.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:46:04 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=NO_COST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Will someone accept a new name for the anti-neutron? Even with the > neutron's charge, an antiparicle *still* exists. charge? iirc they are notoriously hard to detect, 'cos they have no charge. or did you mean anti-neuron? ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:49:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:49:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22065 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:49:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22061 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:49:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:49:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8FAA19D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B80C919A89; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:49:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E136D19CF0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2578E19A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16013 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 19:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 19:48:51 -0000 Message-ID: <016901c3839d$fc46ac20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:48:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It works on other places -- look at Sweden. oh no it don't. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 04:59:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 04:59:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22433 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 04:59:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22429 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 04:59:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 04:59:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 562BC19CEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 343E919B42; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:59:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0B7219BE0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 792AA19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1ec62e24e6552005dee54fbd2158c823@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <5242a264d58cea1f282b7d81b87fa21f@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ybucdzwkewrjzrbzgchmqwhcje" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:57:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ybucdzwkewrjzrbzgchmqwhcje Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, and chris has worked on it (and john for Ecmascript) so it does well enough that amongst most (not all) other sites i can use it to access my credit card, and complete the Inland Revenue online Tax Return. the Charon source is in the free download. amongst other things, you might need to change the configuration so that it lies about which browser it is. it's a reasonable place to start. it's probably easier to work on its interface to plan9 than it is to try translating it all into C or C++ or Erlang or something. (the emu source is also now on our Plan 9 CD and will be in the download shortly.) for listeners in the United Kingdom: for the Revenue site, it's important not to use a Digital Certificate to access via the Government Gateway: use the password scheme. if you try the digital certificate, first you'll need to buy one after playing a guessing game about your credit record with a credit company that then gives you a certificate with a root CA in California to identify me to my own non-Californian Government; then you'll need to pay them to renew it each year, playing the same game again; and finally, it doesn't actually work even with Windows. (``ah yes, we've had a lot of trouble with those digital certificates.'') it should be obvious that the only thing the game does is show that i have access to my credit record not who i am. the really clever bit comes when a loan has been farmed out by one company to another so you haven't got the slightest idea what they're talking about. but you can guess. --upas-ybucdzwkewrjzrbzgchmqwhcje Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A2bux-0004a7-9a; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:36:48 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A2bux-0004a7-9a for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:36:48 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D62119CEB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC6319A1D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:36:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47FCC19B7D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D4CB199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5242a264d58cea1f282b7d81b87fa21f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <4bf3f15d61c9da101c8a91a9c54c9036@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is howard's browser being used in Inferno at all? The auto translated limbo->c version 'i' is pretty crufty but only because the conversion never got finished. It would be good starting point. Even if you disagree with the style, it is relatively small and might have pieces that can be salvaged. --upas-ybucdzwkewrjzrbzgchmqwhcje-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:01:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:01:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22494 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:01:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22490 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:01:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:01:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ECC4B19D16; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22A5519C4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:01:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3009A19D23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-07.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D180919D20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69824470 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:00:11 -0000 Message-ID: <01a201c3839f$91797240$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:59:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Boyd had the right idea (not the current one (though that one's good too)) > but... let's see if I can find it... quoted it in my book... > > The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace > it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. that's it. thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:17:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:17:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22776 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:17:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22772 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:17:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:17:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C40C419CBF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AE9219A71; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:17:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9479519B78; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C159219A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PK85615546 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:08:05 -0400 Message-ID: <0c9c01c383a2$b02e70c0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> <01a201c3839f$91797240$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:22:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Boyd had the right idea (not the current one (though that one's good too)) > > but... let's see if I can find it... quoted it in my book... > > > > The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace > > it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. > > that's it. thanks. It really is the right place to start. Now the trick(s) is (are) 1. Who can you rely on to authenticate identities and enroll people with meaningful credentials, i.e. key pairs 2. How do you protect individual privacy once people start using these universal identifiers 3. (ducking) access to key escrow for law enforcement 4. Reality check: who's going to pay for it Please please please do not start a flame war over #3. We are all way too busy for that. Wes Kussmaul From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:18:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:18:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22784 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:18:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22780 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:17:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:17:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3299E19A71; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C423119D08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:17:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE92719B78; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3066D19A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26692 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:16:47 -0000 Message-ID: <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:16:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace > it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. i need to read up on ZKPs, but not today. well, i read a 'bit' :) a simpler solution would be to add to ESMTP some cool auth option. maybe there is one, but i already have too many things to juggle, read and do. if i'm gonna read an rfc it's gonna burn a lotta energy. you _do not_ mis-implement an rfc. not in my beloved corps. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:29:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:29:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22995 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:29:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22991 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:29:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:29:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF63319C64; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3A5C19AE9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:29:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBC6119B13; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D04D5199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56165271 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:28:51 -0000 Message-ID: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1ec62e24e6552005dee54fbd2158c823@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:28:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > you might need to change the configuration so that > it lies about which browser it is. that's a very good point. these dickhead web 'designers' who use browser specific junk should be hunted down. but it's one big 'arms race'; they change stuff on a whim and then it doesn't work anymore. the number of broken web pages/sites is truly astounding/horrifying. my swedish bank went beserk when it saw i was using mozilla. they do, however, hand you a cryptokey so you can auth yourself over the TLS/SSL connection. so i went back to the exploder, on a non lunix box. i know one bank that uses 6 char [a-z0-9] case insensitive 'pawwords' over TLS/SSL. said bank asked me for my 'password' over the phone, in _direct violation_ of their own stupid 'security' rules. my response to that 'raised some pulses'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:31:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:31:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23063 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:31:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23059 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:31:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:31:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2B3219C92; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 118F319C85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60C5819C85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FD2619BBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32196 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:30:31 -0000 Message-ID: <01ef01c383a3$ce075200$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1ec62e24e6552005dee54fbd2158c823@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:30:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if you try the digital certificate, first > you'll need to buy one after playing > a guessing game about your credit record with a credit > company that then gives you a certificate with a root CA > in California to identify me to my own non-Californian Government; > then you'll need to pay them to renew it each year, playing the > same game again; and finally, > it doesn't actually work even with Windows. > (``ah yes, we've had a lot of trouble with those digital certificates.'') yes, the PKI is broken. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23106 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:34:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23102 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:34:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6495D19D30; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 544D219CEB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3229D19CEB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A2B819C4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gaya.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A7F3B5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:33:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:13:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Amen -ishwar On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Sam wrote: > I'm as guilty as any about shooting spitwads > from the back of the room, but if the ego > battles must continue with such fervency > perhaps we could create another list so > people can insult each other and still feel > like they have an audience? > > Or maybe all that wasted energy could be > redirected at writing a web browser? > > Sam > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:38:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:38:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23192 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23188 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22DDB19D40; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F251B19D2E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A030C19C4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CBF219CEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05175cf3824e7dc637a230b0097f153a@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <01ef01c383a3$ce075200$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vjuamtxdrgpzqdekcghnlvsmgg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:40:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vjuamtxdrgpzqdekcghnlvsmgg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes and no. yes, x.509 chain-to-essentially-ignorant-root-CA is broken, but i gathered that at least some of the PKI inventors did not really intend that, but its liberal, decentralised opposite. fortunately there is a counter-culture. (i suppose one could add: unfortunately, there are three.) --upas-vjuamtxdrgpzqdekcghnlvsmgg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A2clm-00019A-9z; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:31:22 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A2clm-00019A-9z; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:31:22 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C018319CE7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A32119BD4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60C5819C85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FD2619BBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32196 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:30:31 -0000 Message-ID: <01ef01c383a3$ce075200$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1ec62e24e6552005dee54fbd2158c823@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:30:05 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if you try the digital certificate, first > you'll need to buy one after playing > a guessing game about your credit record with a credit > company that then gives you a certificate with a root CA > in California to identify me to my own non-Californian Government; > then you'll need to pay them to renew it each year, playing the > same game again; and finally, > it doesn't actually work even with Windows. > (``ah yes, we've had a lot of trouble with those digital certificates.'') yes, the PKI is broken. --upas-vjuamtxdrgpzqdekcghnlvsmgg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:39:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:39:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23200 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:39:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23196 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:39:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:39:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D584519D3D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB01C19D3E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D470A19D45; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A262D19D36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55775388 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 20:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 20:38:56 -0000 Message-ID: <021701c383a4$fb60b4c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> <01a201c3839f$91797240$b9844051@insultant.net> <0c9c01c383a2$b02e70c0$6400a8c0@dell01> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:38:30 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Now the trick(s) is (are) i'm workin' on it ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:40:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:40:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23255 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:40:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23249 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:40:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:40:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1467419D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8114819D4C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7315719D4C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 891D719D3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8PKVO616636 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:31:24 -0400 Message-ID: <0cc301c383a5$f20a2720$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:45:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update > > The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace > > it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. > > i need to read up on ZKPs, but not today. well, i read a 'bit' :) Stefan Brands, _Rethinking Public Key Policy & Building In Privacy_ , ISBN 0262024918 > a simpler solution would be to add to ESMTP some cool > auth option. maybe there is one, but i already have too > many things to juggle, read and do. if i'm gonna read an > rfc it's gonna burn a lotta energy. > > you _do not_ mis-implement an rfc. not in my beloved corps. Instead you write a new one. And since a lot of what's called for is outside the realm of technology, you need a new organization to deal with the non-tech parts. That's the formal source of the rfc. wk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:45:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:45:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23370 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:45:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23366 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:45:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:45:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89CC219BF7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CA4F19A3E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:45:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E78719A11; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80AB119A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <612666aa3b6104145843bbcec61e797d@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:48:07 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>my swedish bank went beserk when it saw i was using >>mozilla. they do, however, hand you a cryptokey so >>you can auth yourself over the TLS/SSL connection. i could have added that the problem--sorry, one problem--with the Government Gateway and certificates was that it used a Java applet to fetch your certificate from your certificate safe (ha ha), and sign something with it, and the implementation produces a bizarre diagnostic if you happen to have ticked the box that chooses Sun's Java in Explorer (diagnostic roughly equivalent in appearance to ed's `?' but manages to be less informative yet somehow more worrying); if you work out your mistake and untick the box to use Microsoft's Java it still fails, with a different but at least legible diagnostic (``the certificate is invalid''). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:47:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:47:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23393 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23389 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:47:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:47:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44C1A19D16; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A39F219A11; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:47:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45CF619B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D4EF19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:46:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) esmtp is a pretty quick read. If I were to do something for mutual auth, that's a reasonable place. The biggest problem is controlling entry into the `good guys' group of authenticated entities. Who gets to say yeah/nay to people wanting to get in? At first its easy since there are no grey areas. I would be perfectly happy if entry was controlled by the conjunction of boyd, cross, and choate. I figure anyone that all three found acceptable would be pretty milktoast. Over time, it'll become harder but I'ld be happy with a single registry that contains certificates of good guys. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 05:54:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 05:54:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23482 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 05:54:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23478 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 05:54:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 05:54:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2307E19D28; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B90619B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:54:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20CE319B9D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85D7119A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32a7b35d4e018dddc7ebfe860f418c9e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:53:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'd go for it if you changed the syntax to echo kernel /386/9pctest >/dev/reboot echo reboot >/dev/reboot there's no need for all the ctl messages to start with "reboot" -- we're talking to /dev/reboot after all. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:26:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:26:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23989 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:26:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23985 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:26:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:26:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C0BD19C9E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD50619B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:26:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2F2119B0A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED1B219A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21463 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 21:25:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 21:25:46 -0000 Message-ID: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:25:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Over time, it'll become harder but I'ld be happy with > a single registry that contains certificates of good guys. funny you mention that. i was idly thinking about how you'd build one. oh shit, i split an infinitive. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:37:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:37:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24148 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:37:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24144 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:37:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:37:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1D5A19B4B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E000019B85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A95C19B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 437EE19A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:35:14 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8PLabii024208 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:36:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id WAA06027 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:36:38 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd@insultant.net on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:25:19PM +0200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:36:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:25:19PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > oh shit, i split an infinitive. So what? This is English not Latin. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:40:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:40:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24226 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:40:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24222 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:40:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:40:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A2C719D25; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 640DD19CA0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:40:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB05119B85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F315519B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:38:15 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8PLdcQX024578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:39:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id WAA06211 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:39:40 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@einstein.ssz.com on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 12:45:20PM -0500 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:39:40 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 12:45:20PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Trespass isn't a crime if you're not home Rather depends upon the nature of the respective legal system. Here there is no such crime as trespass. Go a hundred miles or so south, and there is. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:49:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:49:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24345 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24341 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:49:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:49:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D29119CF1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81C2819B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:49:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AD5219B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32A4419B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5550324 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 21:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 21:48:13 -0000 Message-ID: <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:47:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Trespass isn't a crime if you're not home > > Rather depends upon the nature of the respective legal system. bingo. iirc i know one legal system where you are only trespassing _after_ you have been asked to leave and refuse to. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:51:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:51:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24392 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:51:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24388 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:51:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:51:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCA0619CEC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2C14199E6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C63CF19B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2CEA7199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29586 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 21:50:28 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 21:50:28 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:50:17 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 22:36 25/09/2003 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:25:19PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > oh shit, i split an infinitive. > >So what? This is English not Latin. It wasn't an infinitive anyway. Is it even possible to split an infinitive in Latin? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 06:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 06:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24482 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 06:57:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24478 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 06:57:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 06:57:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D79D519D5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A48E19B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19F4219B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from india-ironport-1.cisco.com (india-ironport-1.cisco.com [64.104.129.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95BA8199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (64.104.129.221) by india-ironport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Sep 2003 03:47:14 +0530 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by india-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8Q3OIR5019964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:24:26 GMT Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id WAA06978 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:56:26 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925225625.F26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd@insultant.net on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:47:44PM +0200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:56:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:47:44PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > iirc i know one legal system where you are only trespassing _after_ > you have been asked to leave and refuse to. As I recall, that's the case (at least sometimes) in England. e.g. if someone walks up your garden path, they aren't trespassing 'til asked to leave. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:00:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:00:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24539 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:00:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24535 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:00:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:00:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B32E519B08; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4980D199E6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:00:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2394D19D2C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4880B199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5523367 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 21:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 21:59:09 -0000 Message-ID: <02e301c383b0$2e428520$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:58:40 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It wasn't an infinitive anyway. yeah, it wasn't. the 'grammar war' and 3 hours sleep have not improved my thinking. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24611 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:08:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24607 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:08:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:08:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7371C19D6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62E7F19B27; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BEFB019D2C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF1E19B0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PM75Xx009065 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:07:05 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PM75PK007658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:07:05 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PM757W011924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:07:05 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:07:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > but it's one big 'arms race'; they change stuff on a whim > and then it doesn't work anymore. the number of broken > web pages/sites is truly astounding/horrifying. it's even worse. FrontPage generaete HTML that works with ... Internet Explorer. Sometimes it works with other browsers, usually by happenstance. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:10:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:10:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24750 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:10:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24746 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5C6B19D70; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6FFB19B27; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A2C019D5F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2389619B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23840772 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:09:01 -0000 Message-ID: <02f901c383b1$8e752dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925225625.F26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:08:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > As I recall, that's the case (at least sometimes) in England. > > e.g. if someone walks up your garden path, they aren't trespassing > 'til asked to leave. yup it's oz law, based on english law. i think it gets kinda vague if you open the door and watch the tv. maybe you'd be done for 'entering' (as in 'breaking and entering'), if such a crime exists. theft, maybe, 'cos you 'stole' the electricity by turning the tv on, but i digress ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:11:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:11:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24805 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24801 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:11:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:11:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9281019D84; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 040D219B27; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:11:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB20619D6E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p420.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.85.164]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EDA9819D59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22767 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Sep 2003 22:10:52 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925221052.GA21717@mithrandi.za.net> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:10:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:50:17 +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > It wasn't an infinitive anyway. Is it even possible to split an infinitiv= e=20 > in Latin? No, it's not. mithrandi --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/c2fsgfSlm3IcLfgRAs8uAJ4/cETIi1TIvZvvu1Q6b+EowmCnmACfU18T upp2qrpCGme/xB9/KW466WI= =sTYR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:13:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:13:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24848 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:13:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24844 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:13:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:13:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B70419D59; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B76319D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:13:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC22A19D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E310E19B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2082328 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:12:43 -0000 Message-ID: <030701c383b2$124c1820$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:12:12 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it's even worse. FrontPage generaete HTML that works with ... Internet > Explorer. Sometimes it works with other browsers, usually by happenstance. yup been there. had to fix that. non-trivial, given the way they had set up their dmz, firewalls and web servers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:15:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:15:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24874 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:15:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24870 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:15:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:15:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9709719B27; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10FEF19D73; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D33A19D89; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p420.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.85.164]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AF35719B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22806 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Sep 2003 22:14:43 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030925221443.GB21717@mithrandi.za.net> References: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:14:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 16:07:04 -0600, ron minnich wrote: > it's even worse. FrontPage generaete HTML that works with ... Internet=20 > Explorer. Sometimes it works with other browsers, usually by happenstance. Even with Internet Explorer, you still take your chances. mithrandi --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/c2jTgfSlm3IcLfgRAsbbAKC7HRYDlhQxulenDokHRhV7iUOgtQCgm8rL m6QCkHmZgutaeqwJjG7JXFo= =ZlEo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hQiwHBbRI9kgIhsi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:21:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:21:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24981 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:21:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24977 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:21:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:21:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E5EB19D9A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 351CE19D8C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:21:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D9AA19D8C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4706A19D61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2003 15:18:22 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8PMJxJs000015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id XAA08132 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:19:53 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz>; from andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:50:17AM +1200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:19:53 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:50:17AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote: > > It wasn't an infinitive anyway. Is it even possible to split an infinitive > in Latin? That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. The whole 'split infinitive' crusade seems to have been started by some nutty Grammer School teachers who have wanted to make comparisions to Latin. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:28:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:28:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25105 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:28:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25101 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:28:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:28:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A3E719D9B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FDF119D45; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1304F19B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A6F919A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8PMRIF2006025 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno: CNN.com - House votes for do-not-call registry - Sep. 25, From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:27:16 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > "50 million Americans can't be wrong." Let's see, there are 300M > Americans...this is a logical flaw, an appeal to the majority when in fact > it isn't even a majority. Quickly: how many people voted for GW in the last election (not counting the deciding 7 votes in the Supreme Court)? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:28:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:28:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25112 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:28:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25108 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:28:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:28:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACC1619D9F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F3F219DA4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:28:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9153219B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E51F319A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8PMRWj24464 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309252227.h8PMRWj24464@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:46:06 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > [...] I would be > perfectly happy if entry was controlled by the conjunction > of boyd, cross, and choate. I figure anyone that all three found > acceptable would be pretty milktoast. [...] That would only be true if you accepted the axiom of choice. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:32:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:32:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25182 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:32:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25178 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:32:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:32:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 751EF19DA7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EAC619B15; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:32:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D1DF19B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9949D19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:30:31 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8PMVsJJ001633 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:31:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id XAA08869 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:31:55 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030925233154.D7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925225625.F26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02f901c383b1$8e752dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <02f901c383b1$8e752dc0$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd@insultant.net on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 12:08:14AM +0200 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:31:55 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 12:08:14AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > i think it gets kinda vague if you open the door and watch the tv. > > maybe you'd be done for 'entering' (as in 'breaking and entering'), Yeah - I'm not sure there either, though I suspect the common law will be that if there was no form of lock, then there is no crime. > if such a crime exists. theft, maybe, 'cos you 'stole' the electricity I guess. I recal before the 'computer crime' laws were added, people were charged (amost other things) with stealing electricity. Mind I'm not sure if burglary would apply unless you put the electricity in a bucket and carried it away with you. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25189 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25185 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:33:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F46B19DAA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 471DB19B15; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C308319B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B27E019A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PMWwXx014167 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:32:58 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PMWvDl021539 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:32:57 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PMWv7W012897 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:32:57 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:32:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > oh shit, i split an infinitive. when you do that, do you get a finitive and a -finitive? this physics stuff always leaves me confused. I remember hearing that Plan 9 once ran the 800 service for ATT. A registry of good guys would be a bit smaller than the register of 800 numbers, I hope. Seems like a plan. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:36:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:36:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25228 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:36:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25224 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0EC119DAD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2BAF19B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CDF119DA1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B90D19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73692963 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:35:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:35:14 -0000 Message-ID: <031501c383b5$370fafc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925221052.GA21717@mithrandi.za.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:34:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) how about putting the text in the message body and not as attachments? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:37:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:37:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25253 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:37:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25249 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:37:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:37:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0CF219DB4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C13D419B4F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:37:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1220C19DB0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D3BE19B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56171677 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:36:32 -0000 Message-ID: <031e01c383b5$650ee4e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925221443.GB21717@mithrandi.za.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:35:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From: "Tristan Seligmann" ditto From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:39:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:39:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25271 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:39:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25267 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:39:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:39:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74FE519D7A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACB9319D2A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:39:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C86FC19DB0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE7AF19DAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56222990 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:38:00 -0000 Message-ID: <032401c383b5$9968b040$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:37:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. eh? to boldy go ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:43:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:43:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25347 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:43:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25343 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:43:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:43:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCF2C19DB5; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E263B19BED; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 486BA19C85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6DA8F19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30195 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 22:42:14 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 22:42:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <011c01c3839a$cb436620$b9844051@insultant.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:42:04 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >sounds like a plan, but it's an 'army of programmers' because of >the complexity of the problem. i don't like the exploder, but it >works a darn sight better than netscrape. > >unless i'm missing something, this is a serious 'death march'. > >mothra might be a start and the netscrape code is pub domain >(iirc and probably bloody awful). > Don't shout at me, but I've been using Mozilla Firebird for the past few months, and really like it. It feels much snappier and less bloated than Mozilla, especially when you start it up, and the screen layout is, to my eye, very clean and uncluttered. I particularly like the layout of the options - all the ones I want to change are easy to get at, not buried ten levels deep - and the fact that you can leave Javascript on but disable popup windows. No idea what the source code is like though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 07:54:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 07:54:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25581 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 07:54:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25577 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 07:54:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 07:54:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6FEA19DBF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C8E019D82; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E63E19DB6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C04F019D44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5624195 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 22:53:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 22:53:48 -0000 Message-ID: <033b01c383b7$cc13a840$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309252227.h8PMRWj24464@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:53:12 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > David Presotto writes: > > [...] I would be > > perfectly happy if entry was controlled by the conjunction > > of boyd, cross, and choate. I figure anyone that all three found > > acceptable would be pretty milktoast. [...] > > That would only be true if you accepted the axiom of choice. i fear it would be the null list with such a 'trinity'. anyway what is 'milktoast', apart from a band, a guy i refused to hire, given he had such a login name and didn't belong in my beloved corps? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:03:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:03:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25688 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:03:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25684 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:03:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:03:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A9CC19D82; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FD5619BE1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:03:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0291119BA7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1583419B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92e908b296a937df58263e18186702ed@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gighllkeoazwupmfgpwbzmlcqk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:02:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gighllkeoazwupmfgpwbzmlcqk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Firebird has turned into the browser of choice in our group also. It is less bloated, and can navigate most of our internal, built expressly for Exploder, web pages. I haven't looked at the code but ehg has gotten it to compile for µsoft I believe. I use it by vncing to a linux box. To tell you the truth, in the absence of anything, I'ld be more than willing to accept whatever is offered. I'll start by getting a new emu (mu old one just crashes and burns) and running charon again. --upas-gighllkeoazwupmfgpwbzmlcqk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 18:43:46 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 18:43:43 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 95AF919DB2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F9C219D44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:43:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 486BA19C85; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.mbmnz.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6DA8F19B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30195 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 22:42:14 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 22:42:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <011c01c3839a$cb436620$b9844051@insultant.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:42:04 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >sounds like a plan, but it's an 'army of programmers' because of >the complexity of the problem. i don't like the exploder, but it >works a darn sight better than netscrape. > >unless i'm missing something, this is a serious 'death march'. > >mothra might be a start and the netscrape code is pub domain >(iirc and probably bloody awful). > Don't shout at me, but I've been using Mozilla Firebird for the past few months, and really like it. It feels much snappier and less bloated than Mozilla, especially when you start it up, and the screen layout is, to my eye, very clean and uncluttered. I particularly like the layout of the options - all the ones I want to change are easy to get at, not buried ten levels deep - and the fact that you can leave Javascript on but disable popup windows. No idea what the source code is like though. --upas-gighllkeoazwupmfgpwbzmlcqk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:08:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:08:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25766 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:08:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25762 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B93C19DB9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB4C19BE1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:08:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB1C619BE1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E387C19B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PN76Xx022039 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:06 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PN76o3021427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:06 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PN757W014131 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:05 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <92e908b296a937df58263e18186702ed@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:07:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, David Presotto wrote: > To tell you the truth, in the absence of anything, I'ld be more > than willing to accept whatever is offered. I'll start by > getting a new emu (mu old one just crashes and burns) > and running charon again. This brings up a more interesting question. Now that the Plan 9 and Inferno code bases are open source, is some sort of convergance in the future? Seems like it'd be nice to have them all in one code tree, somehow. Limbo and all that things that come with it seem quite neat. Possible? Ridiculous? Uninformed, inquiring minds want to know! ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:10:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:10:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25782 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:10:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25778 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:10:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:10:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E505919DC3; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 516BE19DA2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 924B519DA2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3D9B19B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d77323e9c6e9eda78cc814ec01658bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-okiuqrhzfaapafcemufbzunefr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:09:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-okiuqrhzfaapafcemufbzunefr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm happy with it given rsc's observation of the redundant reboot. --upas-okiuqrhzfaapafcemufbzunefr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 15:22:49 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Sep 25 15:22:46 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 482DC19AE9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 473AF19AB1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3641419AC1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E914199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLgXx001938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:42 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLfPK031946 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:42 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8PJLf7W005481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] 9 boots 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I mentioned that it would be nice to have /dev/rebootfile to load a file, then do kfscmd halt, so we would have a really clean shutdown/reboot scenario. It was pointed out that adding another file to #s is hardly a good idea. So, could we add another command to /dev/reboot? Currently we have two commands for /dev/reboot reboot and reboot filename could we add rebootfile filename e.g. you could then do this: echo 'rebootfile /386/test' > /dev/reboot disk/kfscmd sync disk/kfscmd halt echo reboot > /dev/reboot Is this acceptable? ron --upas-okiuqrhzfaapafcemufbzunefr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:10:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:10:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25794 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:10:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25790 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:10:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:10:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A099319DC4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20DD419DC9; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:10:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 507C619D9C; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 523D119B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6940d7edef85c187f9f351b1190c8611@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <92e908b296a937df58263e18186702ed@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:08:16 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>than willing to accept whatever is offered. I'll start by >>getting a new emu (mu old one just crashes and burns) >>and running charon again. wait a day or so and the newest one with the current charon will be there. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:12:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:12:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25816 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25812 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:12:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:12:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA06F19DBC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E14CB19A11; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:12:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79EEE19DCC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D652D19BE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30531 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 23:11:48 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:11:48 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <92e908b296a937df58263e18186702ed@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:11:38 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 19:02 25/09/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Firebird has turned into the browser of choice in our group also. It >is less bloated, and can navigate most of our internal, built expressly >for Exploder, web pages. I haven't looked at the code but ehg has >gotten it to compile for =C2=B5soft I believe. I use it by vncing >to a linux box. There are also versions for Windows and MacOSX to be had at: http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:12:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:12:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25824 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:12:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25820 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:12:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:12:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC7F319DCF; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F71F19A25; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:12:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B018719DBC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 053A919DC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc1mg.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.6.208] helo=acm.org) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2fH5-0003PM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:11:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F737603.8040709@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:10:59 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. > Latin actually has some two-worded infinitives; for example, "portaturus esse" -- "to be about to carry" (future infinitive), where the present infinitive is "portare." So, a Latin infinitive could be "split," if "to split" is to insert something between the first and second words. "portatus esse" may be the perfect passive infinitive -- I may be mistaken. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:22:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:22:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26010 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:22:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26006 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:22:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:22:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAE1F19DCD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A8EB19C6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:22:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBD1B19DA2; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6BDE19C6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <882db6ef58fc59530bfe5951f8233985@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:19:59 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Possible? Ridiculous? Uninformed, inquiring minds want to know! there are points where the systems take significantly different directions, but there are indeed significant areas where they don't. >>Limbo and all that things that come with it seem quite neat. i'd prefer to do most of the programming i do in Limbo (sounds quite detached, doesn't it), and i've therefore got some incentive to make that possible without (completely) screwing up either system. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:22:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:22:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26022 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:22:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26018 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:22:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:22:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B89E019DDB; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27C8919DD4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:22:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8631A19DA1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CB46319A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30626 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 23:21:50 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 23:21:50 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926112038.00aba198@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <3F737603.8040709@acm.org> References: <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:21:40 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 16:10 25/09/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. > >Latin actually has some two-worded infinitives; for example, >"portaturus esse" -- "to be about to carry" (future infinitive), >where the present infinitive is "portare." So, a Latin infinitive >could be "split," if "to split" is to insert something between the >first and second words. > >"portatus esse" may be the perfect passive infinitive -- I may >be mistaken. That's the trouble with this list. No matter what topic I choose to spout ill-informed drivel on, there's always some one who knows what they're talking about. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:29:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:29:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26111 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:29:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26104 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:29:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:29:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12BEC19D2A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0179619A28; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:29:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C303919DCE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p420.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.85.164]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 15C4B19DA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28332 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Sep 2003 23:28:45 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030925232845.GA28299@mithrandi.za.net> References: <01dc01c383a3$92a37680$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925221443.GB21717@mithrandi.za.net> <031e01c383b5$650ee4e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <031e01c383b5$650ee4e0$b9844051@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:28:45 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 00:35:59 +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > From: "Tristan Seligmann" > > ditto Yeah ok, I normally use PGP/MIME... mithrandi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:31:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:31:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26153 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:31:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26149 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:31:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:31:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F51819DD4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAA9019CD1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C72D119D97; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web86002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web86002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.33]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F0A1119B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20030925233040.76441.qmail@web86002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.98.50.22] by web86002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:30:40 BST From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sven=20Lundquist?= Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:30:40 +0100 (BST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > there's always some one who knows what they're talking > about. How come it's never Choate? ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:54:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:54:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26612 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:54:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26607 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:54:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:54:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EC8A19DDD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3484719D36; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82FFB19C4E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B826419BE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27eb4250e83f59d5cf26e85221dd9cf4@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20030925233040.76441.qmail@web86002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] IMPORTANT: a blueprint for future 9fans flamewars Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:53:06 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) please stick to the official guidelines for flamewars on this list, as per the examples cited on this web page: http://www.corplawblog.com/archives/000142.html thank you: management. ps: posted with delay because we stole it from another site, whose name shall be unmentioned From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:56:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:56:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26692 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:56:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26688 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:56:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:56:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C613A19DDE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1AE319DD6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:56:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB1A319D36; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E69A19D0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55032727 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 23:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 23:54:59 -0000 Message-ID: <035901c383c0$55dfddc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:54:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Limbo and all that things that come with it seem quite neat. limbo is the business. no more having to hack C in user mode or write in 'orrible python or in various other disgusting hacks, err, programming languages. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:57:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:57:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26720 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:57:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26716 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:57:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:57:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B850819DE6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B7919DE7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6589F19DDC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83D1019BE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55902189 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 23:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 23:56:58 -0000 Message-ID: <036801c383c0$9bd6a200$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2d77323e9c6e9eda78cc814ec01658bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:56:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm happy with it given rsc's observation of the redundant reboot. me too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 08:59:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 08:59:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26764 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 08:59:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26760 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 08:59:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 08:59:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B33419DE7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83A9F19DEA; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:59:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3951419DDC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6398C19DDF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 147356886 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 23:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 23:58:38 -0000 Message-ID: <037201c383c0$d5af49a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:57:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/ when i hear the word mozilla i reach for my MP5. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:03:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:03:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26947 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:03:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26943 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:03:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:03:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CA3119D5D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 672F019B1A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:03:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 503F619A1F; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00F0219A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <036801c383c0$9bd6a200$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-klikfdtycefhzyvrypzengnvkc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:01:32 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-klikfdtycefhzyvrypzengnvkc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, it's nice to see that the `pursuit of happiness' can be successful at least from time to time. --upas-klikfdtycefhzyvrypzengnvkc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A2fzJ-0006bl-3N; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:57:33 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A2fzJ-0006bl-3N for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:57:33 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B850819DE6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B7919DE7; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6589F19DDC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-05.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83D1019BE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55902189 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 2003 23:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Sep 2003 23:56:58 -0000 Message-ID: <036801c383c0$9bd6a200$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2d77323e9c6e9eda78cc814ec01658bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:56:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm happy with it given rsc's observation of the redundant reboot. me too. --upas-klikfdtycefhzyvrypzengnvkc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:03:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:03:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26957 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:03:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26953 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:03:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:03:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 160C419CF5; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6340619DC0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:03:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E03D319A25; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-02.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1636219A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6483943 invoked by uid 0); 26 Sep 2003 00:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Sep 2003 00:02:44 -0000 Message-ID: <038301c383c1$65dcc5c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926112038.00aba198@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:01:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > That's the trouble with this list. No matter what topic I choose to spout > ill-informed drivel on, there's always some one who knows what they're > talking about. i disagree. 99.9% of the readers are idiots ;) or whatever the choate-ism was :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:12:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:12:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27304 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:12:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27300 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:12:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:12:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A632F19D7A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DF7519B0B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:12:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FBEC19B0B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DD5219B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Sep 2003 02:09:39 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8Q0B1TY013647 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:11:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id BAA13593 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:11:01 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926011100.B10729@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> <3F737603.8040709@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3F737603.8040709@acm.org>; from brownlee@acm.org on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:10:59PM -0700 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:11:00 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:10:59PM -0700, D. Brownlee wrote: > > > That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. > > Latin actually has some two-worded infinitives; for example, > "portaturus esse" -- "to be about to carry" (future infinitive), > where the present infinitive is "portare." So, a Latin infinitive > could be "split," if "to split" is to insert something between the > first and second words. > > "portatus esse" may be the perfect passive infinitive -- I may > be mistaken. Well what d'ya know. So I guess it must come (ref to anal latin teachers) from there being some rule in latin grammer that such infinitives shouldn't have another word inserted between them? Whereas english has alowed this form. actually one quote I always liked (can't remember from whom) is that "grammer is the dead husk left as a language evolves" DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:14:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:14:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27362 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:14:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27358 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:14:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:14:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8243819DAD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 266BF19DC0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:14:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8172319DB5; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IS.NOVELL.COM (prv-nm4.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D207C19D28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from novell.com not authenticated [137.65.81.121] by IS.NOVELL.COM with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.9 $ on Novell NetWare; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:18:20 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: GWAVA Notification Service From: "GWAVA" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [GWAVA:z8h1x38f] Body text filter message notification Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:12:40 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is an automated Notification e-mail message from GWAVA. The message you sent, from the address 9fans@cse.psu.edu to [No To Addresses] Concerning: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Was not delivered because it contained content not accepted by the e-mail system in use at the intended recipient's organization. The message contained the following text: %%FilterContent From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:35:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:35:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28361 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:35:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28356 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:35:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:35:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DB6619B44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D110819D25; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:35:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3A8D19B44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB07719AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6f6c6d830c4ba3a5ddb87bb1f81b957c@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <882db6ef58fc59530bfe5951f8233985@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:34:15 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>limbo is the business. no more having to hack C in user mode i've sometimes wondered whether i might like to have a variant that can be used for lower-level implementation (cf. ESPOL). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:43:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:43:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29055 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:43:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29050 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:43:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:43:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3C8819D88; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17BDE19C9B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D149B19C9B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (frontdoor.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8E33219B7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31316 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 00:42:40 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 00:42:40 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926124141.00b15230@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <037201c383c0$d5af49a0$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:42:29 +1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > >when i hear the word mozilla i reach for my MP5. I think it might narrow the field down more if you told us under what circumstances you wouldn't reach for your MP5. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:47:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:47:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29264 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:47:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29259 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:47:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:47:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB8EC19D9D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA5D719CF1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:47:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E65819C9B; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A920D19B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivfi08.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.200.8] helo=acm.org) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2gkF-0005zu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3F738C17.8050603@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update References: <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <029b01c383ab$855089c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925223637.D26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926094929.03366d70@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <20030925231952.C7137@edinburgh.cisco.com> <3F737603.8040709@acm.org> <20030926011100.B10729@edinburgh.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20030926011100.B10729@edinburgh.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:45:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dunno -- can't cite any examples. But even the Romans took liberties. In the case of the two-worded infinitives, the second word, "esse," may be omitted. So, I just looked-up "split infinitives" in a dusty "Harbrace College Handbook" (must have been printed on acid-free paper), and it says: AWKWARD You should now begin to, if you wish to succeed, hunt for a job. BETTER If you wish to succeed, you should now begin to hunt for a job. Note: Although all split infinitives were once considered undesirable, those needed for smoothness or clarity are now acceptable. Americans seem to always be searching for something new. - NEWSWEEK In English, or any language, in my occasionally mistaken opinion, it shouldn't matter as long as an "ungrammatical" expression is understandable; "he be over there," for example. Derek Fawcus wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:10:59PM -0700, D. Brownlee wrote: > >>>That's the point. Latin has single word infinitives, English doesn't. >> >>Latin actually has some two-worded infinitives; for example, >>"portaturus esse" -- "to be about to carry" (future infinitive), >>where the present infinitive is "portare." So, a Latin infinitive >>could be "split," if "to split" is to insert something between the >>first and second words. >> >>"portatus esse" may be the perfect passive infinitive -- I may >>be mistaken. > > > Well what d'ya know. So I guess it must come (ref to anal latin teachers) > from there being some rule in latin grammer that such infinitives shouldn't > have another word inserted between them? Whereas english has alowed this > form. > > actually one quote I always liked (can't remember from whom) is that > > "grammer is the dead husk left as a language evolves" > > DF > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:54:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:54:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29581 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:54:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29577 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:54:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:54:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30F0F19C75; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AAE219D23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A455919BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IS.NOVELL.COM (prv-nm4.provo.novell.com [137.65.81.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E18BB19B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from novell.com not authenticated [137.65.81.121] by IS.NOVELL.COM with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.9 $ on Novell NetWare; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:58:00 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: GWAVA Notification Service From: "GWAVA" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [GWAVA:1eb1gf1o] Body text filter message notification Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:52:47 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is an automated Notification e-mail message from GWAVA. The message you sent, from the address 9fans@cse.psu.edu to [No To Addresses] Concerning: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Was not delivered because it contained content not accepted by the e-mail system in use at the intended recipient's organization. The message contained the following text: %%FilterContent From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 09:59:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 09:59:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29796 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 09:59:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29785 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 09:59:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 09:59:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDDA119DA1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE30C19CD1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4791B19D23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3208719CD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44a6a272ef706cf46bb77346bfe7a91b@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lrrpithxycnandmrlygvsnkgpz" Subject: [9fans] spamoff Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:58:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lrrpithxycnandmrlygvsnkgpz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here is a first cut. if you can read rc you can work it out. just change: user=boyd to be: user= stick it in $home/bin/rc and then: spamoff -c use it at your peril. bugs/flames to me. btw: it assumes $home/^(lib log) exist. bbtw: it's chucked away 1000's of spams and has been in use for a week. --upas-lrrpithxycnandmrlygvsnkgpz Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=spamoff.bundle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # To unbundle, run this file echo spamoff sed 's/.//' >spamoff <<'//GO.SYSIN DD spamoff' -#!/bin/rc - -# -# spamoff addr mbox -# -# to setup: spamoff -c -# - -rfork en - -ramfs >[2] /dev/null - -# set user to be you -user=boyd - -lib=/usr/$user/lib/mail # somewhere to put the below -log=/usr/$user/log/mail -allow=$lib/allow # addr's you'll accept mail from -audit=$log/audit # audit trail -errors=$log/errors # error log -rejects=$log/rejects # list of addresses and codes - -upas=upas # upas bin -mp=/tmp/upasfs.$pid # upas mbox file-system mount point -ctl=$mp/ctl -mbox=$mp/mbox/1 - -myname=`{basename $0} - -# install like mail -c - -switch ($#*^$1) { -case 1-c - flag +e - - pipeto=/mail/box/$user/pipeto - - { - echo '#!/bin/rc' - echo - echo /usr/$user/bin/rc/$myname '$*' - } > $pipeto - - chmod +x $pipeto - - for (i in $lib $log) { - if (! test -d $i) - mkdir $i - } - - for (i in $audit $allow $errors $rejects) > $i - - for (i in $audit $errors $rejects) { - chmod 622 $i - chmod +al $i - } - - echo 'postmaster -'$user' -local!$user -' > $allow - - exit -} - -# get $upas/fs to smash the message into manageable pieces -mkdir $mp || exit mkdir -msgtmp=/tmp/pipeto.$pid -bind -ac /mail/tmp /tmp -cat > $msgtmp -$upas/fs -f $msgtmp -m $mp - -# try to cleanp the mess we have made -fn cleanup { - unmount $mp - rm -f $mp - rm -f $msgtmp - unmount /tmp -} - -# report error and give up -fn err { - echo $myname: $* > $errors - cleanup - exit '' -} - -# match $1 against a 'white list' -fn match { - awk -v 'addr='$1 ' -BEGIN { e = 1} - -$0 ~ /^#.*/ || $0 == "" { next } - -$0 == addr { - e = 0 - exit -} - -END { exit e } -' $allow -} - -# see if it had been rejected, but is ok now -fn reject { - awk -v 'addr='$1 -v 'code='$2 ' -BEGIN { e = 1 } - -$1 == addr && $2 == code { - e = 0 - exit -} - -END { exit e } -' $rejects > $audit -} - -# deliver it or bitch about it to the sender -fn bitch { - to=$1 - mfile=$2 - - # 822 addresses are case insensitive, so go for lower case - addr=`{tr A-Z a-z < $mbox/replyto >[2] /dev/null} - - # this had better be ok - if (~ $addr '') - err null reply address - - # spammers sometimes bounce 'em back - if (~ $addr /dev/null) - err bounce from '<'$addr'>' - - if (match $addr || reject $addr `{cat $mbox/subject >[2] /dev/null}) { - $upas/deliver $to $mbox/replyto $mfile < $mbox/raw - cleanup - exit '' - } - - code=`{echo $myname$pid$addr | md5sum} - - echo $code - - { - echo From: $user - echo Subject: $user''''s $myname autoresponder - echo - echo Either you''''re a spammer or I don''''t like you or I don''''t know you. - echo - echo Email me this rejected message with exactly this code: - echo - echo ' '$code - echo - echo in the Subject: line and I''''ll decide if I''''ll add you to my list - echo of people I''''ll accept mail from. - echo - echo ' ---- Original Message ----' - echo - cat $mbox/raw - - } | $upas/send $addr - - # so we can $upas/fs it later, if necessary - # - # this is lunacy, but correct - #$upas/deliver $to $mbox/replyto $audit < $mbox/raw - - # this is manageable, but not correct - $upas/deliver $to $mbox/replyto $audit < $mbox/rawheader - - echo $addr $code > $rejects - err rejected mail from $addr $code -} - -# these files had better be setup right - -if (! test -w $errors -a -A $errors -a -L $errors) { - echo $myname: $errors: existance/mode/permission problem >[1=2] - exit $errors -} - -for (i in $audit $rejects) { - if (! test -w $i -a -A $i -a -L $i) { - err $i: existance/permission problem - } -} - -if (! test -r $allow) { - err $allow: existance/permission problem -} - -switch ($#*) { -case 2 - bitch $* - -case * - err args: $* -} //GO.SYSIN DD spamoff --upas-lrrpithxycnandmrlygvsnkgpz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 10:01:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 10:01:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29925 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 10:01:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29897 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 10:01:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 10:01:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D15D19D6D; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1286719D23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:01:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C035D19D23; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-13.noos.net [212.198.2.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05AEC19BFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25445 invoked by uid 0); 26 Sep 2003 01:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([::ffff:81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.121 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Sep 2003 01:00:51 -0000 Message-ID: <03d001c383c9$76da77c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926124141.00b15230@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:59:39 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think it might narrow the field down more if you told us under what > circumstances you wouldn't reach for your MP5. yes, a cache miss cache :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 10:08:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 10:08:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30362 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 10:07:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30350 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 10:07:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 10:07:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B319D19DAD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6203019D80; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:07:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 690E019D84; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C28F619D23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivfi08.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.200.8] helo=acm.org) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2h3d-0006lN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3F7390CA.3000806@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926124141.00b15230@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <03d001c383c9$76da77c0$b9844051@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <03d001c383c9$76da77c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:05:14 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) could a cache miss cache be classified as a "feature request/enhancement" bug? boyd, rounin wrote: >>I think it might narrow the field down more if you told us under what >>circumstances you wouldn't reach for your MP5. > > > yes, a cache miss cache :) > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 10:19:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 10:19:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31010 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 10:19:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30998 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 10:19:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 10:19:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49BDF19D96; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67F2C19B44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:19:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F29519CC8; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EE9219AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8Q2cd122816; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:38:39 -0400 Received: from 135.214.150.100 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <10179.135.214.150.100.1064543919.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6f6c6d830c4ba3a5ddb87bb1f81b957c@caldo.demon.co.uk> References: <6f6c6d830c4ba3a5ddb87bb1f81b957c@caldo.demon.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cc: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:38:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>limbo is the business. no more having to hack C in user mode > > i've sometimes wondered whether i might like to have a variant that can > be used for lower-level implementation (cf. ESPOL). First, I am not an expert in languages and implementation but I just want to share my opinion. I used to think a new C derivative with Limbo features into it would be very nice (and this should have been the actual sequel to C instead of C++). There are nice features in Limbo (like modules, adts, slicing, automatic declaration(?), etc) that could as well be in C while retaining C's core style (without the need for GC) but increasing the reliability and robustness. Then, again, one has to worry about another C variations and cross-platform issues. In 1996, I wrote a small protocol stack in restricted C (that resembled Limbo code). That time all I had was just Kernighan's Limbo tutorial paper. Eventually I was easily able to convert it to Limbo by using scripts. After that I followed the same style (restricted C, resembling Limbo) for implementing many protocols and drivers in C. I like that approach and would like to stick to it till I see a better alternative. As as aside, it would be nice to have a Limbo-to-C transator so that one can code in Limbo (atleast in the initial stages of the development process) and then convert it to C. Of course, things like arrays (as they use GC in Limbo) may not be trivial but then I think it would be a good approach. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 10:34:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 10:34:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31672 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 10:34:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31614 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 10:31:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 10:31:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 605B119BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF1FF19BBD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:31:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C04319D44; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FA3719BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <1254925-27399>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:29:54 -0400 Message-ID: <041101c383cd$800a5140$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030926103508.00b193e8@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926111030.00aa8fb0@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <5.1.1.6.0.20030926124141.00b15230@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> <03d001c383c9$76da77c0$b9844051@insultant.net> <3F7390CA.3000806@acm.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:28:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > could a cache miss cache be classified as a "feature > request/enhancement" bug? iirc kre wrote one for the 4.2 BSD namei, so typos wouldn't cause a zillion instructions to get executed just to return ENOENT. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:05:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:05:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1707 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:04:21 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1643 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:03:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:03:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97BBA19DA4; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FA0419D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5289919C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65A7119C5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <262115-14061>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:01:03 -0400 Message-ID: <045401c383d1$d3894ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6f6c6d830c4ba3a5ddb87bb1f81b957c@caldo.demon.co.uk> <10179.135.214.150.100.1064543919.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:59:30 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I used to think a new C derivative with Limbo features into it would be > very nice (and this should have been the actual sequel to C instead of > C++). There are nice features in Limbo (like modules, adts, slicing, > automatic declaration(?), etc) that could as well be in C while retaining > C's core style (without the need for GC) but increasing the reliability and > robustness. what is this? a language super-collider? i don't want to see two perfectly good languages smashed together, producing yet another bastardised piece of junk. have you looked at C# [reaches for ...]? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:05:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:05:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1744 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:05:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1714 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:04:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:04:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B98A19DBE; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D238E19D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C7F519D84; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6940319C5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <482b746bfc97f1c361018319658bc3c6@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <14b767bdeaee2dbdea968abe5d74f12c@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:04:01 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I thought the spam/virus problem had been dealt with when I went > to bed this morning, then I woke this morning to find my > mail box full of rubbish. Then I discovered they were apparently > real 9fans messages! I had same feeling this morning. When too much of boyd, and Jim Choate, we have to be careful. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:08:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:08:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1977 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:08:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1973 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9A2C19DC0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58F8819C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54E0B19D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E56619BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8Q279e7056427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:07:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 Message-ID: <2147483647.1064520422@[192.168.42.6]> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b7 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========E9D3FC3CA71F3BE11FF1==========" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:07:02 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --==========E9D3FC3CA71F3BE11FF1========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday, September 26, 2003 1:01 AM +0100 Charles Forsyth=20 wrote: > well, it's nice to see that the `pursuit of happiness' can be = successful > at least from time to time. Indeed. It's not often that a band from Edmonton, Alberta, measures any=20 great level of success. Not that they stormed the world, but they got=20 wider airplay than, say, SNFU. I'm not sure what Mo's doing these days,=20 though. If you're interested in their earlier material, before reincarnating as=20 TPOH they were known as Facecrime. I still have the original LP kicking=20 around here someplace ... --lyndon (okay, how can this be any more off-topic than all the other crud that's been floating around the list this week?) (do NOT answer that rhetorical question) --==========E9D3FC3CA71F3BE11FF1========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Mulberry PGP Plugin v3.0 Comment: processed by Mulberry PGP Plugin iQA/AwUBP3OfTeLnPQjwN7SAEQKSSQCguQdRkvj3qXNR/JiTm65BGgg+8pEAnRkV DFwmeaWockbtEWQonE1sIY22 =BXvq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========E9D3FC3CA71F3BE11FF1==========-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:14:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:14:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2309 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:14:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2305 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99E1019DCD; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEECC19D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:14:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C770E19D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0BEC19BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 74109802 invoked by uid 0); 26 Sep 2003 02:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coma) ([81.64.132.185]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Sep 2003 02:13:28 -0000 Message-ID: <046b01c383d3$8e278a80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2147483647.1064520422@[192.168.42.6]> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:11:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yup TPOH. great band. saw 'em twice in sydney. still have the t-shirt. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:19:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:19:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2532 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:19:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2526 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:19:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:19:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A46C519DD1; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41E4819CEC; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:19:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47A3519C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BAA519B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8Q2Hke7056504; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: "boyd, rounin" Subject: Re: [9fans] 9 boots 9 Message-ID: <2147483647.1064521058@[192.168.42.6]> In-Reply-To: <046b01c383d3$8e278a80$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <2147483647.1064520422@[192.168.42.6]> <046b01c383d3$8e278a80$b9844051@insultant.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b7 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========77912188F624F2049A8A==========" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:17:38 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --==========77912188F624F2049A8A========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday, September 26, 2003 4:11 AM +0200 "boyd, rounin"=20 wrote: > yup TPOH. great band. saw 'em twice in sydney. still have the > t-shirt. I just KNEW you were going to say that ;-) --lyndon --==========77912188F624F2049A8A========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Mulberry PGP Plugin v3.0 Comment: processed by Mulberry PGP Plugin iQA/AwUBP3OhyuLnPQjwN7SAEQLjtACg6iISuCuqdA3BovBWn+oGZ0zMdVwAnAix hkM70khrDH83V9NOSQNz0Rif =vql8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========77912188F624F2049A8A==========-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:25:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:25:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2822 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:25:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2817 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:25:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:25:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F92E19DD6; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C319419C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4052719D0E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA9.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha9.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3353719B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.84]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L14BNAM1YQ8ZIYKS@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:03:36 +1000 Received: from blammo.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5A239C006 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:03:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (nbk-9978.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.170]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by blammo.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7FE12DC003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:03:28 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-reply-to: <3F7314CE.241884EE@null.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F739E6B.6060407@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030923 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <20030925170746.J8693@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3F7314CE.241884EE@null.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:03:23 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Jim Choate wrote: > >>Spam is speech, people have a right to try to talk to you. A "right"? According to what, I can't see any reference to it in the UN declaration of human rights. Even there it wouldn't help much, since many places don't accept that document, or enshrine it in local law. > Not unless you invite them to. > If you're thinking about the 1st Amendment to the US constitution, Is that relevant to an account in Australia receiving spam from Turkey via a Korean spammer? > that is just a prohibition against government suppression of > otherwise normal political discourse, not permission for others > to intrude themselves upon your attention. Maybe *your* government against suppression of *your* political discourse, not particularly relevant w.r.t. the international nature of the Internet. We can't even successfully prosecute the law between seperate states in a single country, what chance has an attempt at prosecuting spammers in law got? Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:ajft@ajft.org Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 11:27:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 11:27:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2920 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 11:27:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2916 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:27:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:27:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C428F19DC0; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14A2119C5E; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:27:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4875119D7A; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4436A19B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8Q2QrXx001394 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:26:53 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8Q2QrPK029749 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:26:53 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8Q2Qr7W019727 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:26:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spamoff In-Reply-To: <44a6a272ef706cf46bb77346bfe7a91b@sdgm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:26:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) my favorite part of the attachment: //GO.SYSIN DD spamoff I still miss the 'old' dd command, which looked so much like a DD statement. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 13:39:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 13:39:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10005 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 13:39:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10001 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 13:39:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 13:39:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66AAE19C36; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D27819B48; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:39:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E375519B48; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B296719B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8Q4Xdef023211 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:40 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8Q4XThI023210 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:29 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926063328.C19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:46:06PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:46:06PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > esmtp is a pretty quick read. If I were to do something for > mutual auth, that's a reasonable place. The biggest problem > is controlling entry into the `good guys' group of authenticated > entities. Who gets to say yeah/nay to people wanting to get in? > At first its easy since there are no grey areas. I would be > perfectly happy if entry was controlled by the conjunction > of boyd, cross, and choate. I figure anyone that all three found > acceptable would be pretty milktoast. Over time, it'll become > harder but I'ld be happy with a single registry that contains > certificates of good guys. Agreed on the entrance qualifications. But as for the contents of the list, the same judges could be used in an "or" rather than "and" fashion to promote a blacklist (Choate would be in an envious position, although he'd squirm his way out of it with some hand waving of philosophical higher principle) that requires you to justify being dropped. Hm, how do we put everyone in there to start with? No, the right idea is to build your own, white- or blacklist. In PGP, you ask your friends to sign your key, eventually you may be lucky to hit common signatories and the web of trust starts happening. Can't say I've seen it in action, but it may well work. A new RFC suits me just fine, I'll toss PGP or the PKI web of trust Thawte suggested (someone mailed me a URL, but I didn't get to it - still, I may be able to approach Shuttleworth if it's necessary) as the authentication/non-repudiation protocol, with legal implications (call it a contract to avoid having to legislate it) if a sender turns out to be harrassing its recipients. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 15:01:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 15:01:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13929 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 15:01:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13924 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 15:01:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 15:01:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC34E19AF7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D6ED19B10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB7D819AF9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D333C19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8Q614F2018109 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c08a526ad47825f91c864ccf73bbd44@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <10179.135.214.150.100.1064543919.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:01:03 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I used to think a new C derivative with Limbo features into it would be > very nice (and this should have been the actual sequel to C instead of > C++). There are nice features in Limbo (like modules, adts, slicing, > automatic declaration(?), etc) that could as well be in C while retaining > C's core style (without the need for GC) but increasing the reliability and > robustness. Take a look at Pike (the language, not the man). It is the C like language that the Roxen web server is written in. It extends lists, arrays, etc to first class types, has GC, adts, slicing, etc. It is expressive enough, but it is inconsistent and perhaps the most tedious are the type declarations like: array(array(string)) x; // Pike compare this to: x : array of array of string; # Limbo Also the notation := in Limbo is pretty convenient and lacking in Pike. FYI, Pike homepage is: http://pike.ida.liu.se/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 15:31:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 15:31:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15936 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 15:31:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15932 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 15:31:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 15:31:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37DA019C36; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8E1019B3D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:31:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F2CE19A75; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DDE519B2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from woo (mail@pm3n4p11.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.155]) by idiom.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8Q6UFZp079195 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@idiom.com) Received: from ru by woo with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A2m6J-0000Qj-00; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:29:11 -0700 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] size of Plan 9 user base From: Richard Uhtenwoldt References: <2a5f19ac9308c5baf2cf3ecf8ac24146@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <2a5f19ac9308c5baf2cf3ecf8ac24146@plan9.ucalgary.ca> In-reply-to: <2a5f19ac9308c5baf2cf3ecf8ac24146@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:29:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Can you also provide stats for the number of messages, so we can >compare ourselves to the *BSDs? here you go. the archive for the FreeBSD lists does not list folder sizes, so no i have no info on BSD. but i subscribe to lists covering the Erlang and Haskell functional-programming languages, so here's a summary of traffic volume from 2002 dec 1 to 2003 may 1. plan9 9.9 megs in 1242 messages, haskell 28.5 megs in 781 messages, erlang 13.0 megs in ??? messages, where plan9 == 9fans erlang == Erlang-Questions haskell == haskell@haskell.org, haskell-cafe@haskell.org, glasgow-haskell-bugs@haskell.org, glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org, ffi@haskell.org, nhc-bugs@haskell.org the data above imply that on average, a haskell message is at least 3 times the size of a Plan-9 message! so, a check of the data is in order. for the check, I did not take pains to start and stop at specific dates: rather I just picked 3 files of plan9 archives and 3 files of haskell archives. since we are interested in a ratio (average characters per message), we do not need to ensure that one set of archives covers a different start (or end) date. $ wc -c plan9.old[def] 5089705 plan9.oldd 5701148 plan9.olde 5568847 plan9.oldf 16359700 total $ grep 'Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu>' plan9.old[def]|wc -l 4478 16359700 divided by 4478 messages == 3653 characters per messsage $ wc -c haskell.old[bcd] 4751391 haskell.oldb 3023976 haskell.oldc 3672447 haskell.oldd 11447814 total $ grep 'Delivered-To: haskell@haskell.org' haskell.old[bcd]|wc -l 808 11447814 divided by 808 == 14168 characters per message. $ wc -c erlang- 24533390 erlang- $ grep 'Return-path: ' erlang-|wc -l 5150 24533390 divided by 5150 == 4763 characters per message. summarizing, the avg 9fans message is 3653 characters. the avg erlang message is 4763 the avg haskell message is 14168 so, on average, a Haskell message really is bigger: 3.8 times the size of a 9fans message. the haskell lists apply to every message a "footer" that says, "to unsubscribe to this mailing list...", etc, of 137 characters. but that 137 bytes is trivial compared to the differences in average message size (over 10,000 bytes). (i'm relying here on the fact that subtracting 137 bytes from _every_ message causes the _average_ bytes per message to decrease by exactly 137 bytes.) finally, I tried to explain the discrepancy by measuring the size of the headers of a few messages, but that does not explain it either. about half of the Haskell posters are professors, and I suppose professors are just more verbose. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 16:56:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 16:56:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20515 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 16:56:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20510 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 16:56:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 16:56:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20DA419C64; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B53019AEE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:56:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00EDB19AF7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A65719ADC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <864e46c53cc7799881c1962cb0d44afc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <5242a264d58cea1f282b7d81b87fa21f@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:54:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is howard's browser being used in Inferno at all? The auto If you refer to charon, it's what I use all the time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 17:45:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 17:45:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22811 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 17:45:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22807 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 17:45:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 17:45:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE56A19B86; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 352DF19AF4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0BD319AF4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF84119AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A2oC9-0005TK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:43:21 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno: CNN.com - House votes for do-not-call registry Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:42:28 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate wrote: > "50 million Americans can't be wrong." Let's see, there are 300M > Americans...this is a logical flaw, an appeal to the majority when in fact > it isn't even a majority. Nobody (except you) even thought they were claiming that it was a majority. But 50 million Americans signing up in advance indicates that there is a tremendous problem that people are happy to see a fix for. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 18:39:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 18:39:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24793 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 18:39:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24785 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 18:39:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 18:39:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4900E19C92; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 744E019B4D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:39:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C47219BE6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9842019B4D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 200.1.1.34 ([200.1.1.34]) by doppio; Fri Sep 26 10:42:30 BST 2003 Message-ID: <002901c38454$34c54a50$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309251808.h8PI89j23063@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:32:49 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What size are you? I'll have a T-shirt despatched today. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 18:42:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 18:42:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24910 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 18:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24906 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 18:42:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 18:42:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8D5C19D3D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE4B019BE6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:42:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4408819CCA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4715719BE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0911e74bedb579b0a5ddd702ce37783e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <045401c383d1$d3894ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:40:26 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i must remember `language super-collider'. that reminded me of several remarks by Peter Brown: If the programming language has all the grace of Georgian architecture it is a sin to build a concrete and glass extension. Taken as a whole the OS macro-assembler is utilitarian rather than conceptually beautiful; not the girl you would dream about, but the sort you might marry. {Macro Processors and Techniques for Portable Software, P.J. Brown, Wiley & Sons, London, 1974.} From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 19:15:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 19:15:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25953 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 19:15:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25949 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 19:15:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 19:15:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E836519D59; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EC6019B79; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4763319C0A; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FF0319A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luchie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.185.65]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A2pcA-00023K-0Z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:14:18 +0100 Message-ID: <3F741147.60208@luchie.demon.co.uk> From: David Lukes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update References: <200309251726.h8PHQQj22789@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20030925223940.E26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02cf01c383ae$a74d1220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030925225625.F26720@edinburgh.cisco.com> <02f901c383b1$8e752dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> In-Reply-To: <02f901c383b1$8e752dc0$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:13:27 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: >maybe you'd be done for 'entering' (as in 'breaking and entering'), if >such a crime exists. theft, maybe, 'cos you 'stole' the electricity >by turning the tv on, but i digress ... > > Maybe you don't digress ... it wouldn't surprise me if the first criminal prosecution of a spammer was under some ancient common law such as deprivation right to natural light by sending spams with black backgrounds. BTW: regarding the "you wouldn't be stealing the electricity unless you took the electrons off the premises in a bucket" argument": remind me to walk into the proponents house, eat the contents of their refrigerator then leave (after digestion, of course). An afterthought: you have stolen the photons that landed on your retinas. Now back to normal programming ... After these messages: ChoateWar!!! Dave. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 19:30:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 19:30:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26392 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 19:30:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26388 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 19:30:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 19:30:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72FD419D93; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85F6319D5E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F6B519B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD66219AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A2pgj-00075e-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Marcus Andersson Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:16:48 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_HAS_UNDERLINE_NUMS, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SEMIFORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ravage@einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate) wrote in message news:... > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > > Marx and Engels were scientific. > > Not hardly, they certainly threw numbers around but that's hardly > scientific. Whatever one thinks of Mr Marx... but it is a fact that parts of marxist theory is taken seriously in all university basic economics classes. > Try reading a Communist Manifesto sometime. I can hardly get through the > first section without giving up in frustration. > > -- -- > > God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we > can't prove it. > Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu > > ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 19:33:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 19:33:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26473 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 19:33:16 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26453 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 19:33:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 19:33:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9BE2219DAB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52BD519DA4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:30:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A27F219B79; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D1219AA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A2pgj-00075k-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Marcus Andersson Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:17:00 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_HAS_UNDERLINE_NUMS, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SEMIFORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote in message news:<333a733fcdfce696b4a6019f4ee60cce@plan9.ucalgary.ca>... > > There was nothing rational or scientific about socialism. Socialism is > > based on fear. Stalin and Lenin were neither sane nor scientific. Consider > > their biology program as an example. > > Marx and Engels were scientific. Lenin too, to the extent that he > contemplated on the previous two's musings. Socialism (and Communism > for that matter) are based on a very solid theoretical background. > Pity they didn't force you to read "Das Kapital" in high school :) > > Ultimately it didn't work in Russia for the same reason it wouldn't > work in Texas -- the people aren't right for it there. People aren't right for it anywhere. > It works on other places -- look at Sweden. No it doesn't. > So many russians come to > Canada to discover that indeed socialism could be, and is, > implemented. Why would they discover that in Canada of all places? > But I digress. What was the original topic of discussion again? Oh, > right, Plan 9... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 19:51:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 19:51:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26954 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 19:51:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26950 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 19:51:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 19:51:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1A5E19DB7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E22319B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:51:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A30CA19C63; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0C2019AE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4404861-7505>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:49:39 -0400 Message-ID: <054001c3841b$58ba65a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030926063328.C19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:45:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > A new RFC suits me just fine, I'll toss PGP or the PKI web of trust > Thawte suggested (someone mailed me a URL, but I didn't get to it no way am i gonna pay ~$50 for an x.509 bit stream which has been 'blessed'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 20:10:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 20:10:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27458 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 20:10:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27454 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 20:10:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 20:10:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6688719D59; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A62C919B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E697419D5E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2086219AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <219764-17793>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:09:38 -0400 Message-ID: <057901c3841d$e9fa0320$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] size of Plan 9 user base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:04:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > about half of the Haskell posters are professors, and I suppose > professors are just more verbose. verbosity in academia == success how does it go? 'publish or perish'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 20:21:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 20:21:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27825 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 20:21:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27821 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 20:21:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 20:21:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9335219DC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3A9619D82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:21:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0215319D82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E9A7719B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24475 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 11:20:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 43160 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 11:19:11 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 11:19:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 18696 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 11:19:11 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86ad8rhk6e.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:18:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, my new cpu/auth server is up now. Very nice. The only problem is the graphic on the console which didnt work. The computer I use for the cpu server has a shared memory graphic and I don't know, if plan9 support somthing like that. I set monitor=vga and vgasize=640x480x8 but the picture is not very usefull. ;-) Anyhow I can work with the cpu server. Is plan9 supporting shared memory graphic? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 20:55:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 20:55:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28496 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 20:55:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28492 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 20:55:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 20:55:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE18C19DB7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50E1319C36; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:55:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FCE419D16; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4350C19C0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <255839-14059>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:54:03 -0400 Message-ID: <060301c38423$8d45f5c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:44:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > It works on other places -- look at Sweden. > > No it doesn't. it most certainly doesn't work. i came, i saw, i got the fuck out. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:08:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:08:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28935 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:08:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28928 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:08:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:08:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEDD719D96; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C24D919A7C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD62119B05; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0F1A199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f3c75ef821ce85dba22942ef0ea545e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030926063328.C19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uyrxcptktjlvcyokcdnyhizgux" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:07:16 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uyrxcptktjlvcyokcdnyhizgux Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, the right idea is to build your own, white- or blacklist. In > PGP, you ask your friends to sign your key, eventually you may be > lucky to hit common signatories and the web of trust starts happening. > Can't say I've seen it in action, but it may well work. SMTP mostly comes from providers (ISP's) and not your friends (unless your friends happen to own ISP's). --upas-uyrxcptktjlvcyokcdnyhizgux Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 00:39:56 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 00:39:53 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D9A819C64; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 698A219B23; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E375519B48; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B296719B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8Q4Xdef023211 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:40 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8Q4XThI023210 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:29 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926063328.C19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <01b501c383a1$e2db44e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:46:06PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:33:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 04:46:06PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > esmtp is a pretty quick read. If I were to do something for > mutual auth, that's a reasonable place. The biggest problem > is controlling entry into the `good guys' group of authenticated > entities. Who gets to say yeah/nay to people wanting to get in? > At first its easy since there are no grey areas. I would be > perfectly happy if entry was controlled by the conjunction > of boyd, cross, and choate. I figure anyone that all three found > acceptable would be pretty milktoast. Over time, it'll become > harder but I'ld be happy with a single registry that contains > certificates of good guys. Agreed on the entrance qualifications. But as for the contents of the list, the same judges could be used in an "or" rather than "and" fashion to promote a blacklist (Choate would be in an envious position, although he'd squirm his way out of it with some hand waving of philosophical higher principle) that requires you to justify being dropped. Hm, how do we put everyone in there to start with? No, the right idea is to build your own, white- or blacklist. In PGP, you ask your friends to sign your key, eventually you may be lucky to hit common signatories and the web of trust starts happening. Can't say I've seen it in action, but it may well work. A new RFC suits me just fine, I'll toss PGP or the PKI web of trust Thawte suggested (someone mailed me a URL, but I didn't get to it - still, I may be able to approach Shuttleworth if it's necessary) as the authentication/non-repudiation protocol, with legal implications (call it a contract to avoid having to legislate it) if a sender turns out to be harrassing its recipients. ++L --upas-uyrxcptktjlvcyokcdnyhizgux-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:15:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:15:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29210 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:15:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29204 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:15:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:15:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E04C819DCC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1895F19B3A; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:15:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F1DC19D16; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3BCA19B3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QC9Qef024394 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:09:26 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QC9Pos024393 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:09:25 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926140924.M19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926063328.C19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <7f3c75ef821ce85dba22942ef0ea545e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <7f3c75ef821ce85dba22942ef0ea545e@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:07:16AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:09:24 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:07:16AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > > No, the right idea is to build your own, white- or blacklist. In > > PGP, you ask your friends to sign your key, eventually you may be > > lucky to hit common signatories and the web of trust starts happening. > > Can't say I've seen it in action, but it may well work. > > SMTP mostly comes from providers (ISP's) and not your friends (unless > your friends happen to own ISP's). But SMTP "has" to specify a MAIL FROM which should match a whitelist entry (with certificate to stop repudiation). That doesn't take much unless the certificate needs to be exchanged too. The other option is to use SSL or TLS to carry SMTP (surely such a thing already exists?) and assign responsibility for delivered spam to the client establishing the session. In other words, I inspect your certificate, decide I can identify you in front of a judge and accept the mail. Otherwise, you're out of luck. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:22:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:22:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29417 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:22:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29413 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:22:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:22:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B944A19D8F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B6B819AF9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:22:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FA8A19B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1BA319A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0709ac44e3c21cc35b75d8f441aca754@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030926140924.M19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:21:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 26 08:15:58 EDT 2003, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > The other option is to use SSL or TLS to carry SMTP (surely such > a thing already exists?) and assign responsibility for delivered > spam to the client establishing the session. It does indeed, our SMTP supports it thanks to Dan. > In other words, I > inspect your certificate, decide I can identify you in front of > a judge and accept the mail. Otherwise, you're out of luck. Yes that is indeed the scheme we're talking about. The problem is proving anything. If most mail is delivered by a third party (i.e. an ISP) and you only have certs belonging to your friends then you have nothing to check unless you have CERTs for the ISPs. Somewhere we need a list of credible ISP CERTs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:28:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:28:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29603 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:28:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29599 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:28:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:28:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A81BB199B6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FEE419B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD9FE19B68; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8A3D199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8599691-7503>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:26:34 -0400 Message-ID: <063c01c38427$b3339900$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7f3c75ef821ce85dba22942ef0ea545e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:14:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > SMTP mostly comes from providers (ISP's) and not your friends (unless > your friends happen to own ISP's). yup, i'm thinking about a clever auth method based on a cryptographic hash: - 'public key' is some random string - shared secret is a shared string - cat the two and hash them i need to think about this more. i don't care about encryption. i want authentication [ZKP]. reading _network security_ i see the example is based on transforms on large graphs. the public key is a list of large [500 node] graphs while the private key is the transform between randomly chosen graphs and an isomorphic graph. as the doc says 'this is impracticle'. then i started to think about graphs. now, what is the web? this is all probably flawed, but i haven't given up yet. buddy, can you spare a neuron? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:39:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:39:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29853 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:39:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29849 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:39:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:39:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2797F19DC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EB9E19D4E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:39:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 546C719B68; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carl.elitel.it (carl.elitel.it [212.34.224.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3094119D3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 90021 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 12:30:34 -0000 Message-ID: From: postasicura@elitel.it To: ryanjjones@mail.com To: nic@aub.dk To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org To: brucee@chunder.com To: bhancock@rutgers.edu To: nehal@ccs.lanl.gov To: rob@mightycheese.com To: wes@village.com To: fragment@nas.com To: rminnich@lanl.gov To: fst@centurytel.net To: micah@cnm-vra.com To: dmr@bell-labs.com To: rog@vitanuova.com To: rcbilson@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca To: chris@vitanuova.com To: martin@mca-ltd.com To: steve.simon@snellwilcox.com To: schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu To: jkw@eecs.harvard.edu To: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com To: dbailey27@ameritech.net To: uncover@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp To: chris@hollis-locke.com To: lucho@ionkov.net To: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk To: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca To: honne@lucent.com To: r.szczesnycutethis@mail.ru To: alex@usenix.org To: phxufwtw02@sneakemail.com To: boyd@insultant.net To: enache@rdslink.ro To: forsyth@vitanuova.com To: presotto@closedmind.org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: matt@proweb.co.uk To: lucio@proxima.alt.za To: tslmikrkdzirzgv@njl.com To: oewrwlksxan_upgffqhc@ton.com To: johnxyz@yahoo.com To: ciberado@hotmail.com To: srikanth@unlserve.unl.edu To: javaprofessor2003@yahoo.com To: xgygoxbrhpjty-wojcbcp@sqdub.com To: abc@def.ghi To: p03090067@brookes.ac.uk To: a-one@a-two.a-three To: zxvsdgs@freeuk.com To: dhodgin1661@rogers.com To: rrschulz@cris.com To: gah@ugcs.caltech.edu To: timberwolf@yahoo.com To: stuart@bmsi.com To: olaf@hobbes.in-berlin.de To: wjdennis@rmi.net To: jjjinc@worldpath.net To: chris.uppal@metagnostic.remove-this.org To: none@none.com To: polo@insightbb.com To: dzimm@hiddenmind.com To: slafond@abo.fi To: noone@all.net To: stevewjackson@charter.net To: jensen@real-time.org To: willz@btopenworld.com To: 03090067@brookes.ac.uk To: news@qades.com To: error@online.no To: f.mezzina@eminds.it To: rvprasad@cis.ksu.edu To: mark.bottomly@rogers.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="h8QEUY301589283" X-Mailer: KAVKeeper 4.0.0.0 X-Priority: 1 (High) Subject: [9fans] Posta Sicura Elitel: notifica antivirus Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 26 Sep 2003 12:30:34 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.3 required=5.0 tests=BASE64_ENC_TEXT,NO_REAL_NAME,X_PRIORITY_HIGH version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a MIME message ! --h8QEUY301589283 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QnVvbmdpb3JubyBkYWwgc2lzdGVtYSBQb3N0YSBTaWN1cmEgZGkgRWxpdGVsLgoKSWwgbm9zd HJvIHNpc3RlbWEgYW50aXZpcnVzIGRlbGxhIHBvc3RhIGluIGVudHJhdGEgaGEgdHJvdmF0bw p1biB2aXJ1cyBpbiB1biBtZXNzYWdnaW8gYSB2b2kgaW5kaXJpenphdG8uCklsIG1lc3NhZ2d pbyBvcmlnaW5hbGUgZScgc3RhdG8gYWxsZWdhdG8gZG9wbyBjaGUgaWwgc2lzdGVtYSBoYSBl bGltaW5hdG8gbGUgcGFydGkgaW5mZXR0ZS4KClBlciB1bHRlcmlvcmkgaW5mb3JtYXppb25pI HN1bCBzZXJ2aXppbyBQb3N0YSBTaWN1cmEgZGkgRWxpdGVsIHZpc2l0YXRlCmwnaW5kaXJpen pvOgpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmVsaXRlbC5iaXovcG9zdGFzaWN1cmE= --h8QEUY301589283 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from unknown (HELO fxgnqxox) (212.183.167.85) by carl.elitel.it with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 12:30:15 -0000 FROM: "Net Service" < > TO: "Mail Receiver" SUBJECT: Undeliverable Mail Returned To Sender Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="dptvmsi" --dptvmsi Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm afraid = I wasn't able to deliver your message = to one or more destinations.



Undeliverable message to vjqqzzxbhe@puremail.net


Message follows:



--dptvmsi-- --h8QEUY301589283-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:45:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:45:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30015 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:45:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30010 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:45:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:45:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2717719D25; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5E8C19D4E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B73819D4E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 562C719DC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QCdxef024495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:40:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QCdspf024494 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:39:54 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926140924.M19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <0709ac44e3c21cc35b75d8f441aca754@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <0709ac44e3c21cc35b75d8f441aca754@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:21:51AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:39:50 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:21:51AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > It does indeed, our SMTP supports it thanks to Dan. > Yes, I've been meaning to explore this in detail, but I've been accepting it as gospel truth in the meantime :-( > > In other words, I > > inspect your certificate, decide I can identify you in front of > > a judge and accept the mail. Otherwise, you're out of luck. > > Yes that is indeed the scheme we're talking about. The problem is > proving anything. If most mail is delivered by a third party > (i.e. an ISP) and you only have certs belonging to your friends > then you have nothing to check unless you have CERTs for the > ISPs. Somewhere we need a list of credible ISP CERTs. Well, the alternative I had in mind was to have a short dialogue: S: Are you willing to accept responsibility for this piece of mail? C: Me?! you must be joking! This is spam disguised as a virus. S: Cool, go try your luck elsewhere. Also, I'm not sure so many ISPs are responsible for delivering mail over SMTP. Certainly, I have been proposing to my clients that they set up a small dial-in server for their travelling users to dial into instead of risking ISP inspection of what could be confidential information. Over time, I think this may well become a trend unless (or maybe especially if) the POTS migrates to IP. Then again, my life brightens up when people suggest using UUCP to deliver mail (or transfer files from Windows, as I wish I could do in one recent instance). Has nobody tried to port BNU or Taylor UUCP to Plan 9? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:50:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:50:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30126 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:50:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30122 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:50:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79E7319AB0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8815119B20; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BC0919AB0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7B2019B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86ad8rhk6e.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What kind of video card is it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:50:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:50:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30137 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:50:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30133 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:50:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:50:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47E8619DE8; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DD7719DE1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:50:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1818119B68; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22AD719AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46016185506c42950346d712e2f1d96f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <063c01c38427$b3339900$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-luntwmqgncifkbnjzelxphcenb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-luntwmqgncifkbnjzelxphcenb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -> random1 <- random2, hmac(random1, shared key) -> hmac(random2, shared key) This is incredibly weak authenitcation (susceptible to main in the middle) but works if all you're trying to do is keep out spammers who ar just injecting messages from their home machines. They can't authenticate without knowing the shared key. The problem is always how many shared keys are there. You could have one per pair of communicating individuals but then you need an introduction protocol. You could have a trusted third party to automate that introduction and you've essentially got plan 9's authentication protocol (we mix with DES rather than a keyed hash but its pretty much the same). Public keys have the advantage that the amount of cruft kept secret is small, i.e., your own private key part and nothing else. You don't need cert's per se. Just a place to get public keys that you trust. That could be a place that just has to be kept secure, not secret. --upas-luntwmqgncifkbnjzelxphcenb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 08:28:47 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 08:28:45 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC38E19DC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59FFD199B6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:28:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD9FE19B68; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8A3D199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8599691-7503>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:26:34 -0400 Message-ID: <063c01c38427$b3339900$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7f3c75ef821ce85dba22942ef0ea545e@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:14:13 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > SMTP mostly comes from providers (ISP's) and not your friends (unless > your friends happen to own ISP's). yup, i'm thinking about a clever auth method based on a cryptographic hash: - 'public key' is some random string - shared secret is a shared string - cat the two and hash them i need to think about this more. i don't care about encryption. i want authentication [ZKP]. reading _network security_ i see the example is based on transforms on large graphs. the public key is a list of large [500 node] graphs while the private key is the transform between randomly chosen graphs and an isomorphic graph. as the doc says 'this is impracticle'. then i started to think about graphs. now, what is the web? this is all probably flawed, but i haven't given up yet. buddy, can you spare a neuron? --upas-luntwmqgncifkbnjzelxphcenb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:59:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:59:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30338 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:59:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30334 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:59:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:59:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABC5F19DEC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B961819DDD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:59:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93ACB19DE1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A1D519DDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c3926d1a7517b520d07a0b749aa6d1c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <46016185506c42950346d712e2f1d96f@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zhjqlfblxybggwynqcymfbvhyi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:01:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zhjqlfblxybggwynqcymfbvhyi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit none of this works if spammers use dubious means (e.g. viruses) to harness home machines (and by implication the authentication info that allows the home user to send emails) to send their spam for them. doesn't this already happen? or is it just for the DDOS attacks? --upas-zhjqlfblxybggwynqcymfbvhyi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -> random1 <- random2, hmac(random1, shared key) -> hmac(random2, shared key) This is incredibly weak authenitcation (susceptible to main in the middle) but works if all you're trying to do is keep out spammers who ar just injecting messages from their home machines. They can't authenticate without knowing the shared key. The problem is always how many shared keys are there. You could have one per pair of communicating individuals but then you need an introduction protocol. You could have a trusted third party to automate that introduction and you've essentially got plan 9's authentication protocol (we mix with DES rather than a keyed hash but its pretty much the same). Public keys have the advantage that the amount of cruft kept secret is small, i.e., your own private key part and nothing else. You don't need cert's per se. Just a place to get public keys that you trust. That could be a place that just has to be kept secure, not secret. --upas-zhjqlfblxybggwynqcymfbvhyi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 21:59:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 21:59:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30346 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 21:59:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30342 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 21:59:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 21:59:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06B8619DF2; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0174B19DDC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:59:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 371F419DE1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 944A019DDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:58:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 26 08:46:00 EDT 2003, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > Also, I'm not sure so many ISPs are responsible for delivering mail > over SMTP. Certainly, I have been proposing to my clients that Surely you jest. Every cable provider, DSL provider, telco, railroad, band big company in the USA is a store and forward SMTP server. I think they could all be brought into the fold since it only increases the cost of entering their club. I'm worried about places like China though. My friends there have the choice of using multiple ISP's all of whom are also great spam generators. I can't trust them in any case but don't want to stop talking to my friends. If I have authenticated SMTP agents, I also need authenticated mail messages to cover the people who can't use authenticated SMTP agents. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:06:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:06:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30502 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:06:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30498 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:06:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:06:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A00C919A06; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8891C199C0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:06:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3F1A19EC6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8E01F19EBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25808 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 13:05:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 43742 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 13:03:31 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 13:03:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 57637 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 13:03:31 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (Russ Cox's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:49:43 -0400") Message-ID: <86u16zg0rg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:03:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Russ Cox" writes: > What kind of video card is it? S3 Graphics ProSavage8 http://us.shuttle.com/specs_access.asp?pro_id=285 http://www.via.com.tw/en/ProSavage%20Chipsets/km266.jsp Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:10:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:10:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30604 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:10:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30600 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:10:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:10:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 876D519DF9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FE19199CC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:10:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B12DD199D6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FA66199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:09:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > none of this works if spammers use dubious means > (e.g. viruses) to harness home machines (and by implication > the authentication info that allows the home user to send emails) > to send their spam for them. > > doesn't this already happen? > or is it just for the DDOS attacks? Not really. Most spam is generated willingly on machines. Lots of it is redirected using open relay sites. The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated email, we're screwed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:16:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:16:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30741 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:16:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30737 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:16:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:16:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1B0D19DF9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7E2E199CF; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:16:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09B65199F0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A646199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d30a4ad07948929d514fa373844eadc@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86u16zg0rg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:15:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It's likely that the driver doesn't require significant work to get it running on the ProSavage8 (the Savage series seem to all be very similar), but it would take a little. If you're game, you might look at the X driver to see how the ProSavage8 is handled differently from the cards that our Savage driver supports, and then apply those differences. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:19:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:19:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30794 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:19:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30790 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:19:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:19:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB71E19DFB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52291199CF; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5820D199FC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F5BB199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4406103-26924>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:17:44 -0400 Message-ID: <06ba01c3842e$7fc22da0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <46016185506c42950346d712e2f1d96f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:02:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > -> random1 > <- random2, hmac(random1, shared key) > -> hmac(random2, shared key) i know. i really want my final solution: The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. but there are problems with that too: backwards compatibility, a heap of work, integration, testing, QA, ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:29:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:29:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31017 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:29:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31013 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:29:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:29:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0F6519DE2; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBC1F19A0C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:29:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2581C19A0C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74CA319AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QDNwef024681 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:24:00 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QDNvJ6024680 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:23:57 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:58:42AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:23:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:58:42AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > On Fri Sep 26 08:46:00 EDT 2003, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > Also, I'm not sure so many ISPs are responsible for delivering mail > > over SMTP. Certainly, I have been proposing to my clients that > > Surely you jest. Every cable provider, DSL provider, telco, railroad, > band big company in the USA is a store and forward SMTP server. > I actually don't, but that's because here in Africa bandwidth is still the currency of the Internet. But I ought to have pointed out that there are (meant to be) damn few open SMTP relays, so ISPs ought (and are able) to identify the clients that stray. Once this goes to court instead of the client being dismissed (we have ridiculously tight, recent legislation in respect of identification of users of telecommunications service in South Africa; laughable, in fact, but it could be made to have teeth) with a rap on the knuckles or less, it may slow spamming and malicious mailing down. > I think they could all be brought into the fold since it only increases > the cost of entering their club. I'm worried about places like China > though. My friends there have the choice of using multiple ISP's > all of whom are also great spam generators. I can't trust them > in any case but don't want to stop talking to my friends. > Ideally, the ISP ought to be the "agent" for the endpoint. It baffles me that we find it so difficult to deal with direct connections. After all, if Plan 9 smtpd does authentication, what would it take for you to issue your Chinese friends with certificates, ask them to connect directly to Bell Labs' server if their mail by another path is rejected? How much would SMTP need to change to escalate the connection at the user agent level? To put (hopefully) more plainly, Outlook speaks SMTP, attempts to deliver through ISP server, gets rejected (oops, that will be store and forward, so notification will take a little while, unfortunately) so uses a direct circuit to Bell Labs second time 'round. The opposite may also work: try the MX for the destination first, with a bit of luck you'll have a certificate to grant you access. If not, you're stuck with your most accommodating ISP. > If I have authenticated SMTP agents, I also need authenticated mail > messages to cover the people who can't use authenticated SMTP agents. That is an orthogonal issue, isn't it? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:34:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:34:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31139 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:34:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31135 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:34:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:34:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F266519DFC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8728019AB0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C84EA19DF7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4071B19DCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:33:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My friends in china have dial ups. The cost of a call to the US is prohibitive. Having to change their configuration to call the US only for mail messages to me is just silly. If we're looking for a solution that only works for people on 9fans to talk to each other, then we don't have to think very hard. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31540 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31536 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:51:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EA9419AB0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 475FA19AF7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:51:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAF0819D5F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2E8C19AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QDk3ef024735 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QDk2q9024734 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926154600.P19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:33:11AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:33:11AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > My friends in china have dial ups. The cost of a call to the US > is prohibitive. Having to change their configuration to call > the US only for mail messages to me is just silly. > Hey, that's not what I meant! Or, yes, I _did_ consider it for my clients that can afford even (short) international calls, but I can dial an ISP and establish an SMTP connection with "sources" through it, surely? Well, maybe not "sources", but whatever Bell Labs use as the incoming SMTP server? > If we're looking for a solution that only works for people on > 9fans to talk to each other, then we don't have to think very > hard. That wasn't it, at all. I'm just thinking that SMTP with a little savvy and moderate security (I like to think of it as Certified MTP, but I'm probably misusing the English language), will go a long way and requires much greater social adjustment than technical change. The former is long overdue anyway. Sorry if in my terseness I manage to be cryptic too. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 22:53:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 22:53:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31601 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 22:53:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31597 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 22:53:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 22:53:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 727FB19E03; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2B9F19AF7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:53:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 124F319CCA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B13AD19A17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4b162e39c126d89cc7215ad5f3e79bd3@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:55:06 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) fundamental problem: i like the fact that people i haven't previously contacted on the net can email me (but not spammers!). i like the fact that i can send email out of the blue to someone on the net (but i'm not a spammer!). if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of incoming mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the spammers might find it hard going. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:02:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:02:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31884 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:02:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31880 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:02:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:02:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF54419D85; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DA0619B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:02:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E6C119D70; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CF4519B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9cac6a9142de412903ed4df2868d18f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <20030926154600.P19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fmmyfxdksgmhjpjojouiixcwky" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:01:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fmmyfxdksgmhjpjojouiixcwky Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri Sep 26 09:51:53 EDT 2003, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > Hey, that's not what I meant! Or, yes, I _did_ consider it for my > clients that can afford even (short) international calls, but I > can dial an ISP and establish an SMTP connection with "sources" > through it, surely? Well, maybe not "sources", but whatever Bell > Labs use as the incoming SMTP server? You're right, sort of. Their connectivity is really crappy with very long delays. They'ld have to stay connected for a very long time to make sure of delivery after multiple retries. Still too much of an onus to assign them just so they can send mail to me. On Fri Sep 26 09:53:48 EDT 2003, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > fundamental problem: > > i like the fact that people i haven't previously contacted on the net > can email me (but not spammers!). > > i like the fact that i can send email out of the blue to someone on > the net (but i'm not a spammer!). > This too is my problem. If all the major SMTP servers were in the scheme it would be less of one but still a problem. Once we started including enough servers to make the scheme useful to me, it would start letting spam in. > > if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of incoming > mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the spammers > might find it hard going. > It's been proposed often. One possible way to do it is to do something computationally difficult to slow the home spammer down. If it takes a long time to send each message, it would stop being useful. You could even drop the requirement for servers you like so that it doesn't slow down all communication. --upas-fmmyfxdksgmhjpjojouiixcwky Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 09:51:46 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 09:51:43 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2002819DF1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E00C119AB0; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAF0819D5F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2E8C19AB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QDk3ef024735 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QDk2q9024734 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926154600.P19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:33:11AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:33:11AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > My friends in china have dial ups. The cost of a call to the US > is prohibitive. Having to change their configuration to call > the US only for mail messages to me is just silly. > Hey, that's not what I meant! Or, yes, I _did_ consider it for my clients that can afford even (short) international calls, but I can dial an ISP and establish an SMTP connection with "sources" through it, surely? Well, maybe not "sources", but whatever Bell Labs use as the incoming SMTP server? > If we're looking for a solution that only works for people on > 9fans to talk to each other, then we don't have to think very > hard. That wasn't it, at all. I'm just thinking that SMTP with a little savvy and moderate security (I like to think of it as Certified MTP, but I'm probably misusing the English language), will go a long way and requires much greater social adjustment than technical change. The former is long overdue anyway. Sorry if in my terseness I manage to be cryptic too. ++L --upas-fmmyfxdksgmhjpjojouiixcwky-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:07:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:07:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31977 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:07:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31973 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:07:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:07:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA79E19E04; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9184D19DD5; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:07:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C3B619CF5; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB51C19AF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25a3c50ca144d25c46d14d4a078e0a1f@plan9.bell-labs.com> BadHeader: From jmk Fri Sep 26 10:06:42 EDT 2003 remote from plan9 From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86u16zg0rg.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:06:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 26 09:06:46 EDT 2003, matthias@mteege.de wrote: > "Russ Cox" writes: > > > What kind of video card is it? > > S3 Graphics ProSavage8 > > http://us.shuttle.com/specs_access.asp?pro_id=285 > http://www.via.com.tw/en/ProSavage%20Chipsets/km266.jsp > > Matthias > -- > Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de > make world not war > PGP-Key auf Anfrage Kenji Okamoto did a driver for the ProSavage8 in August and it is included in /lib/vgadb, /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga on sources. Perhaps you have a variant not understood by that code, what is the PCI VID/DID of the chip? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:16:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:16:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32114 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:16:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32110 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:16:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:16:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D862A19DF8; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C52919A17; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:16:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D66F19A17; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4228A199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26830 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 14:15:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 44220 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 14:13:58 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 14:13:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 62799 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 14:13:58 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <2d30a4ad07948929d514fa373844eadc@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <2d30a4ad07948929d514fa373844eadc@plan9.bell-labs.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:15:27 -0400") Message-ID: <86llsbfxi1.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Russ Cox" writes: > It's likely that the driver doesn't require significant > work to get it running on the ProSavage8 (the Savage > series seem to all be very similar), but it would take > a little. If you're game, you might look at the X driver > to see how the ProSavage8 is handled differently from the > cards that our Savage driver supports, and then apply > those differences. I'm not a great programmer but it maybe interesting to read the code. How can I make sure, that plan9 uses the correct driver? Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:31:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:31:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32425 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:31:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32421 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:31:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:31:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80D99199D8; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED1D8199D8; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:31:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B7BC199FD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8529F199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8QEPNef024881 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:25:27 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8QEPKAj024880 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:25:20 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030926162519.Q19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <4b162e39c126d89cc7215ad5f3e79bd3@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <4b162e39c126d89cc7215ad5f3e79bd3@vitanuova.com>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 02:55:06PM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:25:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 02:55:06PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > fundamental problem: > > i like the fact that people i haven't previously contacted on the net > can email me (but not spammers!). > Of course it's a problem: spammers have effectively eliminated this option altogether. > i like the fact that i can send email out of the blue to someone on > the net (but i'm not a spammer!). > ... and this one, reflexively. > > if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of incoming > mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the spammers > might find it hard going. Charging requires authentication, unless we invent the equivalent of postage stamps (that's an interesting idea in itself, as the solution addresses both the issue of microcharging and a global 'net currency). But once you can extort money out of someone, you can equally successfully sue them for damages, however small, if they send you unsolicited mail. With some legislation in place to exaggerate the financial impact, the effect will be the same as charging per message. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:34:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:34:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32448 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:34:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32444 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:34:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:34:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61B0819A33; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BBEF199DD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98A9619A02; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04F2E199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0556a2cb886b9185e973f72d72873892@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86llsbfxi1.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm not a great programmer but it maybe interesting to read the > code. How can I make sure, that plan9 uses the correct driver? Actually it may be a bit easier than that, as jmk said. Run pci | grep ' 03' (That's a tab not a space before the 03.) It will print a line like 0.3.0: 03.00.00 5333/8811 9 0:f8000000 67108864 the 5333/8811 is the vid/did (vendor and device id) of the PCI device. That's the line for the video card because field 2 is the type, and 03.xx.xx is video cards. The vid will be 5333 (S3), but the did will be different. Note it. Then look in /lib/vgadb for the line vid=0x5333 did=0x8D04 # ProSavage8 in P4M266 chipset and add a line like it except with your did. Finally, edit /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/virge.c and everywhere there is a "case 0x8D04:" add a "case your-did:" as well. Then cd /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga; mk install and give it a try. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:34:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:34:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32461 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:34:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32457 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:34:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:34:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A13B819A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3734E199DD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:34:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63B3D199EE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67959199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <9cac6a9142de412903ed4df2868d18f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:36:31 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of incoming > > mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the spammers > > might find it hard going. > > It's been proposed often. One possible way to do it is to do something > computationally difficult to slow the home spammer down. If it takes a > long time to send each message, it would stop being useful. You could even > drop the requirement for servers you like so that it doesn't slow down all > communication. that shouldn't be hard to do. using SMTP, the protocol might look like: -> HELO (optional-pk-signature-of-message) <- 9999 computation required (challenge) -> COMPUTED (response) <- 250 go ahead and send me mail -> MAIL FROM: blahdiblah etc... the signature could be taken from the subject line of the message by the SMTP client; if the public key is not on the recipient's white-list, or if no signature is provided, then some compute resources are requested at the client side. for backward compatibility, you could make the style of HELO different; mail delivered using old style HELO gets shunted through the usual spam filtering channels, or (in time) just binned. in this way, you can give the public keys of those people you like to the smtp agent, so they don't have to pay the compute cost, but others can still get through to you. you also have the ability to drop the connection before receiving any of the message. i'm probably missing something. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:36:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:36:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32498 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:36:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32494 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:36:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:36:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68F3019A7B; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 794B319A1F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:36:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E59019A02; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 79B5A199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27183 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 14:36:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 44315 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 14:31:55 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 14:31:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 64091 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 14:31:55 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <25a3c50ca144d25c46d14d4a078e0a1f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <25a3c50ca144d25c46d14d4a078e0a1f@plan9.bell-labs.com> (jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:06:42 -0400") Message-ID: <86he2zfwo4.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:31:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > Perhaps you have a variant not understood by that code, what is > the PCI VID/DID of the chip? 5333/8D04 !? Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:48:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:48:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32694 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:48:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32690 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:48:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:48:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 587A7199DB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A24219A06; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B17619A06; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2295199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86he2zfwo4.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:47:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 26 10:36:42 EDT 2003, matthias@mteege.de wrote: > jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > > > Perhaps you have a variant not understood by that code, what is > > the PCI VID/DID of the chip? > > 5333/8D04 !? > > Matthias > > -- > Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de > make world not war > PGP-Key auf Anfrage OK. There should be code for that, done by Kenji. Check you have up to date /lib/vgadb and aux/vga. what is the output of 'aux/vga -p >somefile; cat somefile'? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:50:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:50:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32713 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32709 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:50:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BE9119A6C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0747F19A1F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4C7319A1F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70D9F19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h8QEnieY005083 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:49:51 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] ISP filtering - update X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C74@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Thread-Index: AcOEO1obkpzYK6+uSAqEl+qh6SFfiwAAXZWw From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:49:39 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >i'm probably missing something. and when the other party fails to calculate the response to the challenge, we send a bounce a la boyd ('either i don't like you...'), witch 1) lets us use this beefed-up SMTP while the rest of the world catches up; 2) gives the other side an opportunity to send us their public key for addition into the whitelist. Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Sep 26 23:58:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Sep 26 23:58:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 425 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Sep 2003 23:58:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 421 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 23:58:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 23:58:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0642619A7B; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA3F19A6F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 666D819A6F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0F6919A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 78ED93939; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 055F33937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2332.199.98.17.55.1064587902.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <015901c3839d$b9da4720$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <200309251826.h8PIQ7j23163@augusta.math.psu.edu> <1801.199.98.17.54.1064514666.squirrel@wish> <015901c3839d$b9da4720$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:51:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Will someone accept a new name for the anti-neutron? Even with the >> neutron's charge, an antiparicle *still* exists. > > charge? iirc they are notoriously hard to detect, 'cos they have no > charge. > > or did you mean anti-neuron? ;) > > I was commenting on the "three ways to say something: positive, neutral, and negative." and the fact that some neutral stimuli can provoke violent reactions. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:01:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:01:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 468 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:01:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 464 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:01:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:01:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F1C119ABB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCB9319A72; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:01:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F336D19A72; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA9A19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:03:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > the signature could be taken from the subject line of the message by oops, for "subject line", read "header". From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:01:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:01:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 481 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:01:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 475 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:01:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:01:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F365219ACA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C29A519ADE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:01:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65A6219A72; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3CA1919A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27569 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 15:00:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 44526 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 14:56:56 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 14:56:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 65909 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 14:56:56 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:47:00 -0400") Message-ID: <868yobfvif.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:56:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: > OK. There should be code for that, done by Kenji. > Check you have up to date /lib/vgadb and aux/vga. Yes, I've seen the entry in /lib/vgadb after send my last email. > what is the output of 'aux/vga -p >somefile; cat somefile'? vga->attr: vid=0x5333 vga->attr: did=0x8D04 vga misc E3 vga feature 00 vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 0A vga crt 5F 4F 52 9F 53 1F 0B 3E - 00 40 00 00 00 00 FF 00 EB 2D DF 50 60 EB EC A3 - FF vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 50 05 0F - FF vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 41 FF 0F 00 00 vga virtual 0 0 vga panning off vga clock[1] f 135000000 vga clock[1] d i m 0 0 - 127 vga clock[1] n p q r 31 0 - 0 3 vga apz 0 vga linear 1 virge Crt30 E1 8D 40 28 10 04 BF DB - 5B BD 14 59 00 00 virge Crt40 01 03 00 00 00 01 00 00 - 00 00 00 FF 01 2C 02 01 virge Crt50 40 00 00 08 E8 00 00 00 - 99 00 00 00 00 00 40 00 virge Crt60 00 00 00 00 00 04 88 00 - FF 00 00 01 00 FD 00 EE virge hde 280 640 virge shb 298 664 virge ehb 29F 671 virge ht 320 800 virge vde 1E0 480 virge vrs 1EB 491 virge vre 1ED 493 virge vt 20D 525 virge Crt70 10 C0 07 1F 1F 1F 00 1F - 01 01 1F 1F 17 17 17 17 00 97 12 41 F6 10 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 50 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 virge Seq08 06 00 0A 00 0C 00 0E 0F virge Seq10 00 00 00 00 00 02 2B 00 - 40 02 02 02 00 00 0A 00 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 04 - 0C 00 2A 02 03 00 2E 2F 10 06 41 63 00 00 01 52 - 5D 00 3A 3B 3C 00 3E 00 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 - 48 49 4A 4B 4C 4D 4E 00 virge Crt2D 8D 04 00 virge dclk m n r 14318180 0 - 0 0 virge mclk m n r 14318180 0 - 0 0 Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:03:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:03:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 507 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:03:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 503 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:03:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:03:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 343A819A72; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B03E5199E3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2B0119AEB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11AC919ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8QErv601910 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:53:57 -0400 Message-ID: <10a801c3843f$fb0f5d00$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <46016185506c42950346d712e2f1d96f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <06ba01c3842e$7fc22da0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:08:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i know. i really want my final solution: > > The final solution is to either beef up IP (bad idea) or replace > it with a mutually authenticaticated, encrypted protocol. > > but there are problems with that too: backwards compatibility, > a heap of work, integration, testing, QA, ... It is nothing less than building a new layer on top of the Internet. But if you step back you see that it solves so many problems that it has a chance. The thing to start with is not the solution but rather the buzz. How do you get lots of people thinking along these lines. (I have some ideas) (as if I needed to mention that.) (488 pages worth) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:07:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:07:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 574 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:07:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 570 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:07:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:07:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 959AA19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49E14199E3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:07:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FA2519A10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA1D8199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f7ef4f5e3afeffae76ddd44306ac91d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <868yobfvif.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:06:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You don't have an up-to-date aux/vga. cd /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga; mk install. The binary is out-of-date. I have been working on rebuilding the out-of-date binaries all morning. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:23:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:23:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 898 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:23:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 894 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:23:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:23:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E45419AA1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0168E199DB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5EA919A70; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FD81199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <383c3f5c0037844b4e8ca2b48f541fcb@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] upas Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I changed rfc822.y to not stop parsing when it hits a bad header line. Now it just tags it as a BadHeader: and continues. This should solve some problems with reading mime mail that has bad headers. It should also make life a little easier when filtering spam. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 00:23:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 00:23:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 906 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 00:23:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 902 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 00:23:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 00:23:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2EA31199DB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D21D19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:23:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1136E19A33; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A569199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivfjs8.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.207.136] helo=acm.org) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A2uQq-0000v1-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:22:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3F74599D.1010004@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:22:05 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is there an analogy here: We have the post office and several alternate carriers, like UPS and FedEx. They all use the same infrastructure to make deliveries: roads, bridges, etc., but the trucks, offices and employees are different. Where is the separation with email? It seems that all the email carriers use some of the same infrastructure, like cables, satellites and networking equipment, but is software part of that infrastructure? SMTP? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:01:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:01:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1484 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:01:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1480 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:01:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:01:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1B7319ABD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B76A419A73; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:01:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B50D419A11; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 40868199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28527 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 16:00:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 44928 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 15:55:35 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 15:55:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 70308 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 15:55:35 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <0f7ef4f5e3afeffae76ddd44306ac91d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <0f7ef4f5e3afeffae76ddd44306ac91d@plan9.bell-labs.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:06:57 -0400") Message-ID: <863cejfsso.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:55:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Russ Cox" writes: > You don't have an up-to-date aux/vga. > cd /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga; mk install. Thanks, works now. Only the cursor is a big fat quadrat, but for the console it maybe ok. Many thanks Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:07:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:07:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1553 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1549 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D7B319A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E23F819A73; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:07:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC05619A6F; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B511199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a356051b05e2cf4967cd098e0dab4ff@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <863cejfsso.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:06:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It looks like there's no kernel support for the ProSavage8. You'll need that for the cursor. You could probably add it to /sys/src/9/pc/vgasavage.c easily enough -- just do what was done for PROSAVAGEK and see if it works. (If so, send us a new source file!) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:12:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:12:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1631 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:12:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1627 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:12:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:12:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7262219AA6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC38219A8C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:12:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10F2719A11; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C8C2199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3acd264620efd5f309c727229b36ad6f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <2a356051b05e2cf4967cd098e0dab4ff@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:11:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Sep 26 12:07:54 EDT 2003, rsc@mit.edu wrote: > It looks like there's no kernel support for the ProSavage8. > You'll need that for the cursor. You could probably add it > to /sys/src/9/pc/vgasavage.c easily enough -- just do what > was done for PROSAVAGEK and see if it works. (If so, send > us a new source file!) > > Russ Failing that, you will have to wait for Kenji to comment on the cursor problem (it's already the weekend in Japan). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:20:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:20:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1805 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:20:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1801 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:20:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:20:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1606419ADD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70D1519AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:20:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DC0919A11; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED0F1199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <863cejfsso.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:17:54 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i often leave cpu consoles in cga mode or make them use a uart From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:23:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:23:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1856 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:23:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1852 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:23:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:23:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4868519AF1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA3DD19A11; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:23:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2833219AA6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76E22199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8QGMtj28514 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309261622.h8QGMtj28514@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <28511.1064593375.1@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:22:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I used to think a new C derivative with Limbo features into it would be > very nice (and this should have been the actual sequel to C instead of > C++). There are nice features in Limbo (like modules, adts, slicing, > automatic declaration(?), etc) that could as well be in C while retaining > C's core style (without the need for GC) but increasing the reliability and > robustness. I've become a fan of Cyclone in the last year or so. I sort of think of it as a C on steroids, and frankly, I'd much rather be programming in it for many common programming tasks than programming in strict ANSI C. http://www.research.att.com/projects/cyclone/ - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2130 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:45:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2126 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:45:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:45:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2479919AEB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61B6919A8C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB07819A8C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D0A219A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07727 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8QGidj28682 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309261644.h8QGidj28682@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:09:07 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:39 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > email, we're screwed. If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by them sending mail. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 01:51:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 01:51:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2271 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 01:51:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2267 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 01:51:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 01:51:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAC8819B05; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD3EF19AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:51:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A76F319ADE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD7F619A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08734 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8QGo1j28740 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309261650.h8QGo1j28740@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:55:06 BST." <4b162e39c126d89cc7215ad5f3e79bd3@vitanuova.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:50:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of incoming > mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the spammers > might find it hard going. If you can find them to make them pay. Some people used to advertise web pages where they would `correct the spelling of email sent to the following address:'. The cost would be US$500/Hour, with a minimum of two hours. You accepted their services by sending them email. Naturally, it didn't work; how do you go through the end of the anonymous pipe to find who to bill your time to? One way is just to send Boyd after them with this 92FS (I'd choose a Ka-Bar, myself). - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:18:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:18:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2789 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:18:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2785 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:18:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:18:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6442719AFC; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD12219A6E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:18:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 885F019A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A58D619A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8QH9J608070 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:09:19 -0400 Message-ID: <11f801c38452$e4a1cea0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309261644.h8QGidj28682@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:23:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > email, we're screwed. > > If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by > them sending mail. Yes, but with the latest worms you may not know you're screwed for months or longer. Meanwhile your machine is cranking away as a spam server, espionage server (credit card #s, kids' usernames etc.) and perhaps with a side job as a DDOS server. The worms that immediately destroy registry files etc. seem to get the media attention but they are relatively a thing of the past. The modern ones don't call attention to themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that some group among the worm underground is planning attacks on critical infrastructure. They're just in development mode now. If we don't do something, someday we will wish for the good old days when the worst we had to worry about was spam. Wes Kussmaul From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:21:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:21:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2840 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:21:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2836 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:21:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:21:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A1D5319B11; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CBE419A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:21:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2ECBD19ACA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0DFA519AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29674 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 17:21:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 45393 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 17:19:01 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 17:19:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 76405 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 17:19:01 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <3acd264620efd5f309c727229b36ad6f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <3acd264620efd5f309c727229b36ad6f@plan9.bell-labs.com> (jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:11:31 -0400") Message-ID: <86vfrfead6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com writes: >> to /sys/src/9/pc/vgasavage.c easily enough -- just do what >> was done for PROSAVAGEK and see if it works. (If so, send >> us a new source file!) > Failing that, you will have to wait for Kenji to comment on > the cursor problem (it's already the weekend in Japan). Yes, it failed and i will wait for a comment from kenji. Thanks, Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:26:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:26:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2902 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:26:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2898 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:26:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:26:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFC5019B17; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33C3E19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:26:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9D7119AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AE2EF19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29710 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 17:25:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 45538 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 17:22:20 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 17:22:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 76856 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 17:22:20 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (Charles Forsyth's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:17:54 +0100") Message-ID: <86r823ea7n.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:22:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Charles Forsyth writes: > i often leave cpu consoles in cga mode or make them use a uart Yes, this was adequate for a cpu server but in this special case it would be nice to have full graphic support because the shuttle boxes are nice and cheap terminals to. To much CPU power but compact. Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:30:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:30:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2916 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:30:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2912 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:30:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:30:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A56019B10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54D9419AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93D8E19AEB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD0B619A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91874672edab9f31ab110d2a39106476@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] binaries on sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm going to be updating almost all the binaries on sources today (anything that rebuilds to a different binary, even if I've previously noted that the changes are due to irrelevant library functionality). If you don't want bleeding edge binaries, avoid pulling for a few days. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:32:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:32:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2942 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:32:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2938 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:32:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:32:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A5A719AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 822C8199CF; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:32:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F93319B1B; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A9FF19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89f6844ced8164d3c03be11393a3fd99@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <11f801c38452$e4a1cea0$6400a8c0@dell01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vkaiulxllevjhtcdvfmjikjvfl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:31:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vkaiulxllevjhtcdvfmjikjvfl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > email, we're screwed. > > If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by > them sending mail. I think you didn't read the sentence very well. If they take over MY machine, I am indeed screwed. However, the sentence said YOUR and WE. I was just agreeing with rog that if the prevalent source of spam were attacks, then this would indeed be useless. However, it is not. --upas-vkaiulxllevjhtcdvfmjikjvfl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 13:18:50 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 13:18:47 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE84719ACA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88BA719AB5; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:18:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 885F019A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A58D619A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8QH9J608070 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:09:19 -0400 Message-ID: <11f801c38452$e4a1cea0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309261644.h8QGidj28682@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:23:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > email, we're screwed. > > If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by > them sending mail. Yes, but with the latest worms you may not know you're screwed for months or longer. Meanwhile your machine is cranking away as a spam server, espionage server (credit card #s, kids' usernames etc.) and perhaps with a side job as a DDOS server. The worms that immediately destroy registry files etc. seem to get the media attention but they are relatively a thing of the past. The modern ones don't call attention to themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that some group among the worm underground is planning attacks on critical infrastructure. They're just in development mode now. If we don't do something, someday we will wish for the good old days when the worst we had to worry about was spam. Wes Kussmaul --upas-vkaiulxllevjhtcdvfmjikjvfl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 02:34:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 02:34:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3038 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 02:34:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3034 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 02:34:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 02:34:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F226819B21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CB7A19B10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:34:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB1EB19B10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03EDE19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <11f801c38452$e4a1cea0$6400a8c0@dell01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:33:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a DDOS server. The worms that immediately destroy registry files etc. seem > to get the media attention but they are relatively a thing of the past. The > modern ones don't call attention to themselves. Ehg noted recently that one DSL provider says that 1/3 of the machines attaching to his service are already infected and the owners don't know it. Perhaps they're switching from Cable to DSL because the cable network seems to have gotten slower... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:24:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:24:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4036 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:24:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4032 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:24:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:24:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E68F819B1A; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCF5A19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:24:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C4BE19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D8F219A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8QIF1611080 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:15:01 -0400 Message-ID: <125101c3845c$12129050$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <89f6844ced8164d3c03be11393a3fd99@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:29:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > > email, we're screwed. > > > > If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by > > them sending mail. > > I think you didn't read the sentence very well. If they take over MY > machine, I am indeed screwed. However, the sentence said YOUR and WE. > I was just agreeing with rog that if the prevalent source of spam were > attacks, then this would indeed be useless. However, it is not. You're right, I didn't properly note the pronouns. I stand corrected. However, the point remains that today's prevalent souce of spam may not be tomorrow's. We're thinking about two different problems: fixing today's spam problem asap and fixing the whole online infrastructure before it gets hijacked. I admit mine is OT. But it does need attention. I'll go back to work now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:26:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:26:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4069 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:26:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4065 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:26:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:26:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19E5A19B10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7ADEF19A96; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:26:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5AA0F19B1B; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1299619A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30438 invoked by uid 66); 26 Sep 2003 18:25:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 45851 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2003 18:24:09 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2003 18:24:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 81266 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Sep 2003 18:24:09 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <3acd264620efd5f309c727229b36ad6f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <86vfrfead6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <86vfrfead6.fsf@gic.mteege.de> (Matthias Teege's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:01 +0200") Message-ID: <86n0cre7cm.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:24:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias Teege writes: >> Failing that, you will have to wait for Kenji to comment on >> the cursor problem (it's already the weekend in Japan). > Yes, it failed and i will wait for a comment from kenji. Now it works. To my surprise I got it. Where do I drop the new sources? Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:32:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:32:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4169 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:32:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4165 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:32:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5089819B22; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8405C19A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4612819AB5; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE48F19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <21238f8dd7d51532affbe96f0d743546@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server In-Reply-To: <86n0cre7cm.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:31:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) you can mail them to 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com and we'll put them in the distribution. thanks! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:40:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:40:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4347 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:40:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4343 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:40:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:40:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 372AC19B28; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3BDD19A6E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:40:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2BEF19A15; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7316199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8QJxx126337 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:59:59 -0400 Received: from 135.214.150.100 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25494.135.214.150.100.1064606399.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <045401c383d1$d3894ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <045401c383d1$d3894ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:59:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> I used to think a new C derivative with Limbo features into it would >> be very nice (and this should have been the actual sequel to C instead >> of C++). There are nice features in Limbo (like modules, adts, >> slicing, automatic declaration(?), etc) that could as well be in C >> while retaining C's core style (without the need for GC) but >> increasing the reliability and robustness. > > what is this? a language super-collider? i don't want to see two > perfectly good languages smashed together, producing yet another > bastardised piece of junk. I dont know how to put it but if I am right, Limbo is very good but one cant use it for low level programming (like GC reducing predicatable timing). C can be used well for low-level programming but there are concerns about pitfalls, reliability and robustness (more because of bad usage). I thought a balance between the two could greatly be useful for kernel and embedded code. BTW, I was once reading about profile-guided compilation by Intel for IA-64 and what all it does to check what the pointers actually point to at any point (some localization). I was wondering how easy it is to do in a language like Limbo and the opportunities Limbo give for a compiler writer for optimization. So, why cant there be a better C that is clean too? Again, I am not an expert in these areas but I am just telling my opinion. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:41:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:41:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4370 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:41:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4366 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:41:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:41:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E6A319B31; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A56019B0D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:41:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D53119AC1; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D63D19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c41cd584d1969b6a4f6b295d113b3f5@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:43:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i've just been queried by a friend (and i'd like to know anyway): a) has anyone bundled up the plan9 libthread into a package portable to other systems? b) i seem to remember another very lightweight portable thread library produced by someone plan 9 related, but can't seem to find any references. any ideas? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:52:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:52:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4584 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:52:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4580 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:52:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:52:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26B2119B39; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A78719B08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:52:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3551E19AAA; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B5A819B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8QIp6j29275 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309261851.h8QIp6j29275@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:31:24 EDT." <89f6844ced8164d3c03be11393a3fd99@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > > email, we're screwed. > > > > If they take over your machine, you're a lot more screwed than just by > > them sending mail. > > I think you didn't read the sentence very well. If they take over MY > machine, I am indeed screwed. However, the sentence said YOUR and WE. > I was just agreeing with rog that if the prevalent source of spam were > attacks, then this would indeed be useless. However, it is not. There's that too. The fact of the matter is, everybody's screwed. ``Can I screw you?'' ``What would you want to screw me for? I'm a lawyer!'' ``Punative damages. Screw you, screw me, screw everybody!'' - Dan C. (Apologies to the Jerky Boys.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 03:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 03:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4667 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 03:58:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4663 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 03:58:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 03:58:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 492B419AC4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB06119A02; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:58:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32E1319A03; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CAC3199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries In-Reply-To: <8c41cd584d1969b6a4f6b295d113b3f5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:57:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a) has anyone bundled up the plan9 libthread into a package portable > to other systems? just yesterday, in fact, i packaged up libthread and the current versions of the other libraries. i haven't put them out for playing yet. i'm a little worried that my unix implementation of the rendezvous system call is too heavyweight for switch-intensive jobs. > b) i seem to remember another very lightweight portable thread library > produced by someone plan 9 related, but can't seem to find any > references. any ideas? if all you want is user-level threads (only one proc) then i have an even lighter-weight library that works better for programs you're willing to tailor to unix. you can designate an idle function. on unix it works well to make this a wrapper around select. sadly. the original tra sources (and perhaps the ones still in the anonymous cvs) used a stack-copying thread implementation that was fairly portable. the stack copying got around stack overflow -- you were always on the system stack -- though it introduced the plan 9 "all stack variables are thread local" complication/feature. the initial plan 9 stab at this version is below. russ /* * Stack-copying context switching. * Assumes stack grows toward lower addresses. */ #include #include jmp_buf mainjmp; typedef struct Label Label; struct Label { void *stk; jmp_buf jb; }; void* emalloc(int n) { void *a; a = mallocz(n, 1); if(a==nil) sysfatal("out of memory"); return a; } static void swtch0(Label*, Label*); static void swtch1(Label*); static void swtch2(Label*); /* the abort() calls keep smart compilers from optimizing the tail recursion */ void switchlabel(Label *cur, Label *nxt) { /* * save the current stack position and registers * the first time through. swtch0 won't return. */ if(setjmp(cur->jb)==0){ swtch0(cur, nxt); abort(); } } static void swtch0(Label *cur, Label *nxt) { uchar *lo, *hi; int n; /* save the stack for the current thread */ lo = (uchar*)cur->jb[JMPBUFSP]; hi = (uchar*)mainjmp[JMPBUFSP]; n = hi-lo; cur->stk = emalloc(n); memmove(cur->stk, lo, n); /* switch to the next thread */ swtch1(nxt); abort(); } static void swtch1(Label *nxt) { uchar buf[64]; /* take up stack space */ /* recurse until we're out of the area the new stack will occupy. */ if(nxt->jb[JMPBUFSP] < (ulong)buf) swtch1(nxt); /* do the copy */ swtch2(nxt); abort(); } static void swtch2(Label *nxt) { uchar *lo, *hi; int n; /* put the next stack in place */ lo = (uchar*)nxt->jb[JMPBUFSP]; hi = (uchar*)mainjmp[JMPBUFSP]; n = hi-lo; memmove(lo, nxt->stk, n); free(nxt->stk); nxt->stk = nil; /* hop to it */ longjmp(nxt->jb, 1); abort(); } void initlabel(Label *l, void (*fn)(void*), void *arg) { ulong *stk; int n; n = 16; l->stk = emalloc(n); stk = (ulong*)((uchar*)l->stk + n); --stk; *--stk = (ulong)arg; *--stk = 0; /* return address */ *--stk = 0; /* new pc */ l->jb[JMPBUFPC] = (ulong)fn+JMPBUFDPC; l->jb[JMPBUFSP] = mainjmp[JMPBUFSP]-n; } Label ml, pl; void printthread(void *a) { print("printthread runs, arg is %d\n", (int)a); switchlabel(&pl, &ml); } void main(int argc, char **argv) { setjmp(mainjmp); initlabel(&pl, printthread, (void*)12345); print("main runs\n"); switchlabel(&ml, &pl); print("main runs again\n"); exits(nil); } From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 04:22:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 04:22:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5138 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 04:22:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5134 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 04:22:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 04:22:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51ECF19A96; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC64C19A0D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:22:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2055A19A08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8579D19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:21:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software/ has current libutf, libfmt, libbio, libregexp, lib9 (libc bits that don't fit anywhere else), libthread, mk, and sam4e (thanks to scott schwartz). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 04:41:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 04:41:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5338 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 04:41:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5334 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 04:41:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 04:41:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5374719A03; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50FE019A08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:41:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61B2319A1D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C150819A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f54679ad3aaa0a6df1f03d4d103efd7@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <25494.135.214.150.100.1064606399.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:43:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>I dont know how to put it but if I am right, Limbo is very good but one >>cant use it for low level programming (like GC reducing predicatable >>timing). C can be used well for low-level programming but there are ESPOL was an extended subset of the Burroughs Extended ALGOL language that was tuned to implement systems programs such as the operating system (MCP). (i'd hoped the MCP source code was online by now but i couldn't find it; its use of call-by-name to wait for an event was fascinating.) anyhow, i thought it would be not too hard to do the same for Limbo, once i'd decided it was really a sensible idea, that is. i did think that in practice it might boil down to just preventing the use of expensive things and limiting it to reference counting, which could probably be done without actually creating a true dialect. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 04:42:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 04:42:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5360 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 04:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5356 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 04:42:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 04:42:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DAA719ADD; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2481919A21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:42:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A12B19AC4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A0D419A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4388873-17791>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:41:18 -0400 Message-ID: <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:18:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The opposite may also work: try the MX for the destination first, > with a bit of luck you'll have a certificate to grant you access. > If not, you're stuck with your most accommodating ISP. say there are no MX's but the host you are mailing has multiple IP addresses and they might be forwarders or whatever. one thing i do know is that BIND returns the A records randomly; it's there to provide load balancing. this is a non-trivial problem, in the general case. i want a solution for the general case. patching [E]SMTP is a waste of time. the whole thing is a nightmare. it's like a jigsaw puzzle (or IKEA furniture) and the pieces don't fit. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 04:45:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 04:45:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5415 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 04:45:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5411 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 04:45:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 04:45:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF63619A21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C742E19A21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B75F19AB5; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2C3E19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a3a8bca7c0cdca238313dae9debb88d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:44:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) our dns also returns the A records randomly From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 04:48:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 04:48:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5452 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 04:48:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5448 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 04:48:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 04:48:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F21919A6D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E26BF19A03; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DD2719A6D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5616219980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8600729-18064>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0400 Message-ID: <077801c38463$bcad2b40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9cac6a9142de412903ed4df2868d18f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:23:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It's been proposed often. One possible way to do it is to do something > computationally difficult to slow the home spammer down. i like this idea. then again, it means i have more procs hanging around filling up my proc table :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 05:01:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 05:01:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5606 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 05:01:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5602 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 05:01:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 05:01:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03AFA19B05; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7135F199F2; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:01:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E619019A96; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC6E199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8b319e29c2cdef38a3180c1317bbc926@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <077801c38463$bcad2b40$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ixjeibzdhskcczuhasqskbveqj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:00:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ixjeibzdhskcczuhasqskbveqj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not really, they'ld just give up. --upas-ixjeibzdhskcczuhasqskbveqj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 15:48:42 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Fri Sep 26 15:48:40 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EF3D19AC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CFED19980; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DD2719A6D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5616219980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8600729-18064>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0400 Message-ID: <077801c38463$bcad2b40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9cac6a9142de412903ed4df2868d18f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:23:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It's been proposed often. One possible way to do it is to do something > computationally difficult to slow the home spammer down. i like this idea. then again, it means i have more procs hanging around filling up my proc table :( --upas-ixjeibzdhskcczuhasqskbveqj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 05:04:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 05:04:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5636 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 05:04:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5632 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 05:04:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 05:04:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D85C719ACB; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A3EE19A6D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:04:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4949919A08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EF8C199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557133-3105>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:03:04 -0400 Message-ID: <07a401c38465$c234a820$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <4b162e39c126d89cc7215ad5f3e79bd3@vitanuova.com> <20030926162519.Q19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:38:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Charging requires authentication, unless we invent the equivalent > of postage stamps ... sort of, but presotto is right. slow 'em down, but that means hacks at the smtp level (as i have outlined). and they are hacks. they are not clean. i'd like to try out my hack, but just at a logging of what it would do as a first cut; leave no man behind, drop no valid message. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 05:07:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 05:07:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5658 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 05:07:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5654 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 05:07:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 05:07:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 141E619B17; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BC7F19A6D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:07:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B88119A82; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC75019A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <07a401c38465$c234a820$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:06:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Actually its not a hack, just a payment scheme. They're paying you with their cycles. Now if we could give them some useful work to do as the computation, we'ld have a really good scheme. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 05:09:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 05:09:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5793 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 05:09:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5789 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 05:09:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 05:09:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 307A119B00; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EBC719AC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEE3219B00; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F26F919AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <726794-27395>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: <07ae01c38466$3d2b89e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:41:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i'm probably missing something. you are. you don't get to see the Subject: line (if there is one) until after DATA and then it's too late. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 05:16:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 05:16:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6048 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 05:16:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6044 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 05:16:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 05:16:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56C7619B21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4686D19A08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:16:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89B9219AC9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B07BF19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4398331-17794>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:15:16 -0400 Message-ID: <07bd01c38467$3e866980$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C74@black.aprote.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:49:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ... a la boyd ('either i don't like you...'), witch ... [à la :-] i was thinking more along the lines of GnR: back off, back off bitch down in the gutter dyin' in the ditch From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:05:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:05:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6815 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:05:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6811 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:05:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:05:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4114419AB9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15C7019A6E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:05:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7981519A21; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98BFA199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8588018-18053>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:03:26 -0400 Message-ID: <080d01c3846d$20820740$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309261650.h8QGo1j28740@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:31:11 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > One way is just to send Boyd after them with this 92FS (I'd choose a > Ka-Bar, myself). knives -- i don't like knives 'cos there's no 'stand off' range. with the M-9/92FS/G-1 i have a 10 metre standoff range (i'm pretty good at 10m ;). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:34:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:34:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7326 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:34:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7322 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:34:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:34:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 474F919A10; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1248199B7; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:34:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC862199B9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.mccme.ru (ns.mccme.ru [62.117.108.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE75619992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.mccme.ru (8.12.9/8.12.9) with UUCP id h8QK5a9K025787 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:05:36 +0400 Received: by donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C0C1759C82; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:57:25 +0400 (MSD) From: goga@bronnikov.mccme.ru To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries Message-ID: <20030926215725.GA24878@donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:57:25 +0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 03:21:23PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rsc/software/ > has current libutf, libfmt, libbio, libregexp, > lib9 (libc bits that don't fit anywhere else), > libthread, mk, and sam4e (thanks to scott schwartz). > I couldn't download about half of the files -- the server gives me 404. goga From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:37:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:37:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7378 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:37:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7374 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:37:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:37:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21DAC199BE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6381519980; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:37:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FDDD199B9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EB7A19980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4aa59a28438ddd23811539231b613abd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries In-Reply-To: <20030926215725.GA24878@donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:36:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I couldn't download about half of the files -- the server gives me 404. Whoops. The ones that did download were old. I had named today's files .tar.gz but the links .tgz. It should be fixed now. Thanks. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:48:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:48:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7696 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:48:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7692 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:48:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:48:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97782199B9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EEFE199D2; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4282E199F4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65E7C199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4398574-17796>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:46:23 -0400 Message-ID: <085701c38471$ff038ee0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <045401c383d1$d3894ca0$b9844051@insultant.net> <25494.135.214.150.100.1064606399.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:06:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I dont know how to put it but if I am right, Limbo is very good but one > cant use it for low level programming (like GC reducing predicatable > timing). C can be used well for low-level programming but there are > concerns about pitfalls, reliability and robustness (more because of bad > usage). I thought a balance between the two could greatly be useful for > kernel and embedded code. use the right tool for the job. i'll stick with the M-9, dan can stick with K-bar, but i might have a backup plan too: http://www.insultant.net/barstow/MVC-764F.JPG From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:54:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:54:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7817 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:54:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7813 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:54:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:54:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 195C319A69; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C503E19A3E; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96A0519A1D; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1D10199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557101-3121>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:53:39 -0400 Message-ID: <086f01c38472$c0ba9f60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5f54679ad3aaa0a6df1f03d4d103efd7@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:11:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ESPOL was an extended subset of the Burroughs Extended ALGOL language > that was tuned to implement systems programs such as the operating system (MCP). MCP? i think we had such a beast at basser. it was a horrible thing, but it did had some damn interesting ideas. M[aster] C[ontrol] P[rogram], right? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 06:58:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 06:58:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7933 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 06:58:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7929 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 06:58:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 06:58:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B661E19A85; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04561199F4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:58:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C58FE199F4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3423199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3683956-17797>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:56:18 -0400 Message-ID: <087701c38473$05588a60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9a3a8bca7c0cdca238313dae9debb88d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:13:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > our dns also returns the A records randomly cool. i learnt this thing 'cos mockapetris did a full blown sim on a PDP-10. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 07:45:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 07:45:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8929 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 07:45:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8925 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 07:45:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 07:45:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 25FBC19A0C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7913199D2; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1716199D6; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02FEB199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557228-3106>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:44:00 -0400 Message-ID: <08f601c38478$25af6720$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] Fw: Bug Letter Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:50:04 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what i don't understand is this purpose of this stupidity? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Network Email Service" To: "Mail Recipient" Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:10 AM Subject: Bug Letter Hi. Undeliverable to jrzovcvlu@puremail.net From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 09:30:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 09:30:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11949 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 09:30:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11945 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 09:30:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 09:30:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D5A9199FE; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 656A7199E3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C77D199F4; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B66D5199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c8ef52fac9a29ff758b2e7ccbd4126f@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:29:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Forsyth writes, > ESPOL was an extended subset of the Burroughs Extended ALGOL language > that was tuned to implement systems programs such as the operating system (MCP). > (i'd hoped the MCP source code was online by now but i couldn't find it; > its use of call-by-name to wait for an event was fascinating.) I haven't found MCP, but ESPOL and extended ALGOL manuals are to be found at Al Kossow's site: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/burroughs/B5500/ Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 11:21:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 11:21:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15733 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 11:21:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15729 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 11:21:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 11:21:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBB3A19A63; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C941819A08; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:21:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45E0119A0C; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A103F19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-38lc0ad.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.77] helo=yahoo.com) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A34gm-0001O9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:20:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3F74F3A2.9040604@yahoo.com> From: Ya Hoo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <6c8ef52fac9a29ff758b2e7ccbd4126f@plan9.bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <6c8ef52fac9a29ff758b2e7ccbd4126f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] confessions of a spam king Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:14 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM_2, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here's a link to an article (NY Times - may requre registration). It looks like it will be in the Sunday "Magazine" section. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28SPAMLT.html Ya From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 12:31:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 12:31:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18563 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 12:31:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18559 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 12:31:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 12:31:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 938F519A70; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1AB3199D9; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:31:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A732E199E3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90685199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <214701-26921>; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:29:24 -0400 Message-ID: <097c01c3849d$fe933ce0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6c8ef52fac9a29ff758b2e7ccbd4126f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <3F74F3A2.9040604@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] confessions of a spam king MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 04:20:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BULK_EMAIL,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28SPAMLT.html First off, Colbert doesn't think about spam the way I do (or, most probably, the way you do). He likes to call it ''bulk e-mailing,'' for starters. And he considers it just one of the many exciting new markets available on the Internet. He's the kind of guy who is always interrupting himself to tell you about some smart economic angle he has figured out, some new edge. i hope he's excited when the _men in black_ turn up with their MP5-SD3's. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 14:09:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 14:09:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21303 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 14:09:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21299 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 14:09:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 14:09:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFEC219A76; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A0F919A1D; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:09:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09CC319A2A; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myownemail.com (unknown [220.121.17.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D8CC5199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14e701c384a5$61803bd0$f6c6ce5f@d> From: rhodescixuehi@myownemail.com To: "friend" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: Subject: [9fans] How to Use Movie Magic to become wealthy Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rhodescixuehi@myownemail.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:13:53 -1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.6 required=5.0 tests=HOME_EMPLOYMENT,NO_REAL_NAME,PRIORITY_NO_NAME, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REMOVE_IN_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) How to Make a Fortune with Movies [I've tried hard to make sure I'm sending this only to people who have expressed an interest in receiving email on this subject, but if I've sent this to you in error, please forgive me, and hit the "remove" link at the bottom of the letter.] Dear Friend, I'm going to show you how you can quickly start generating hundreds, even thousands of dollars weekly, in less than two weeks, using the Power of Movies! I know that sounds hard to believe... But it's 100% true. Top marketing experts agree (but few will tell you) that if you talk to 600 people per month, you'll likely find around 5%, or 30 people who'll respond to ANY offer you make, no matter how good it is. Of those 30, you might get 1 or 2 people who actually do something about it! And they're not likely to do much. Pretty bad odds, huh? Lots of disappointing work, too, spending all that time with people who wind up thinking you're a liar, nuts, or stupid. No wonder most good people with good intentions fail in starting a home based business after pouring their money, time, heart and soul into it. It's a gut wrenching shame! Heres Your Chance... To break the law of averages! Everyone loves great movies, right? Making money watching movies would be a dream come true for millions of people! You can attract your 600 folks every single month to that idea fast and easy, and I can show you how. Next, I can show you how that 95% who aren't going to respond are quickly, often automatically screened out. Finally, I can show you how to make that 5% who do respond into champions in no time flat! If you like, I can introduce you personally to other successful friends of mine -- millionaires who will be happy to show you how we do it. You won't believe the support you get and the effectiveness of our business, using movies. HIGHLIGHTS OF OUR BUSINESS: · Great movies every week, and personal coaching and development to become a champion! · Start the money flowing within two weeks, with checks every week delivered to your door. Have your friends and relatives asking you "How is it you've changed so much? You're so much happier and more confident!" Rub elbows with some of the Greatest People On The Planet, and watch your self grow daily. · Notice significantly improved relationships with friends, family and acquaintances. The list goes on and on, but I don't want to take too much of your time. Now I'm going to try and bribe you a little bit. If you respond to this email, I'll give you a free bonus surprise gift. No, I'm not going to tell you what it is, but it'll put a smile on your face! Right now, I'm only looking for a few select people to work with: People with integrity, vision, ambition, communication skills, and a love of great movies. Do you see a fit so far? If so, and if you and I hit it off, I can give you a jump-start I haven't even mentioned, because I don't know you yet. Don't wait. Do it and I promise you will be on your way as quickly as possible! Respond right now with your name and phone number to: personalsuccesscoach@moomia.com Sincerely, Arline Brooks President Darjanea, Inc 1-206-298-8687 mailto:personalsuccesscoach@moomia.com PS: I am a business woman who has chosen to be successful and raise my kids at the same time. I "make money with movies" in my spare time. You can too. Believe me, you won't regret looking into this. To remove: Send to takemeoff@moomia.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 15:07:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 15:07:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22668 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 15:07:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22664 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 15:07:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 15:07:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B350A19A9F; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0EEE19A71; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:07:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70FAD19A72; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C034619A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8R61Zef027895 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:01:36 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8R61YcE027894 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:01:34 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:18:42PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:01:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 09:18:42PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > The opposite may also work: try the MX for the destination first, > > with a bit of luck you'll have a certificate to grant you access. > > If not, you're stuck with your most accommodating ISP. > > say there are no MX's but the host you are mailing has multiple > IP addresses and they might be forwarders or whatever. > Well, you could tighten up the rules, we are after all trying to solve a problem. But multiple MXs remain a problem, as you'd want to talk to the exchanger that knows you and there is no guarantee that all MXs have the same certificate list. Part of the weakness in RFC-821/2 lies in its fallback recovery features, which is really where SPAM has hurt the most, forcing Internet services to be trimmed. It may be a philosophical point, but I'd still like to make it: abuse has led to the loss of the socially desirable features of the Internet. Addressing the technological issues without restoring the trust will not bring back the good ole days and that, at the very minimum, is a shame. > the whole thing is a nightmare. it's like a jigsaw puzzle (or IKEA > furniture) and the pieces don't fit. I agree, but there are enough people interested that one can seek and will probably find a solution. It is a matter of critical mass (what an ugly pun!) and a touch of unselfish development. In fact, against my principles, I'd advocate prototyping something that even half works at identifying the participants and spreading it as far as it will reach. Hard to do, but there are places like slashdot and even google where one can broadcast the details and presumably find a receptive audience (no comments required about the neurological complexity of these collective brains!). In my opinion, the biggest failing in RFC-821/2 lies with the redundancy provided by the envelope and the message headers and the contradictions these can lead to. I believe this feature ought to be the first thing to be eliminated, which is no small change. I also can't help agreeing with Heinlein that a society that demands identification documents is best abandoned, but I fail to see a viable alternative. Whichever way one turns, one needs to be able to create a boundary between the perceived good and evil. Wasn't that the first step in the evolution of life on Earth? Just for the sake of stirring the pot, I've been considering an anonymising mail server ever since anon.penet.fi (it's been such a long time I can't even tell if I got the right name) was established and recent thinking was along the lines of a public pool of messages that could be indexed by the user's certificate hash value (I guess Venti has had quite an impact on my thinking). If the message is encrypted, only the recipient would be able to decrypt it, more or less minimising the likelihood that anyone else would want to collect it. I don't quite see that this would assist in our current objective, but it may be worth something elsewhere in the development of a different electronic mail exchange scheme. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 16:34:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 16:34:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24836 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 16:34:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24832 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 16:34:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 16:34:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6AD119A87; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8506F19A9E; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:34:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8E3F19A91; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.mccme.ru (ns.mccme.ru [62.117.108.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB6D419A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.mccme.ru (8.12.9/8.12.9) with UUCP id h8R673d5004900 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:07:03 +0400 Received: by donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 48DBC59C82; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:54:46 +0400 (MSD) From: goga@bronnikov.mccme.ru To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] portable 9-style threads libraries Message-ID: <20030927075446.GA32312@donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru> References: <20030926215725.GA24878@donkey.bronnikov.mccme.ru> <4aa59a28438ddd23811539231b613abd@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4aa59a28438ddd23811539231b613abd@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:54:46 +0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 05:36:58PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > I couldn't download about half of the files -- the server gives me 404. > > Whoops. The ones that did download were old. > I had named today's files .tar.gz but the links .tgz. > It should be fixed now. > > Thanks. > Now it works. Thank you! goga From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 18:23:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 18:23:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27181 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 18:23:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27177 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 18:23:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 18:23:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0C1D19AAF; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 336CE19A0C; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:23:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FF4C199BF; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 116D519980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3691232-17789>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:21:53 -0400 Message-ID: <09cd01c384cd$6603e800$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] PEM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:00:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i had a quick re-cap on PEM last night. i'm not sure outlook supports it but it would raise the bar in that it would be simple to just filter on having the right sort of PEM glop in the message body. this is just for auth, not for encryption; the message is sent in the clear. the PEM glop could even be fake ;) avoiding the hideous x.509 root CA nightmare. now, if i could get my hands on a CA that i could trust without chucking money at Verisad (sic) [who i don't trust] et al ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 18:25:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 18:25:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27224 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 18:25:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27220 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 18:25:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 18:25:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49A4B19AB2; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7730B19A76; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:25:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 25BC219A87; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47BE7199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <229052-14061>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:24:02 -0400 Message-ID: <09d101c384cd$b304bc60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:02:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Just for the sake of stirring the pot, I've been considering an > anonymising mail server ever since anon.penet.fi (it's been such > a long time I can't even tell if I got the right name) was established what was the screwup where an anonymiser spat out everyone in the clear? anyway, i don't want to be anonymous. i just wanna takes these T's [spammers] down. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 18:49:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 18:49:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27737 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 18:49:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27733 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 18:49:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 18:49:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDC3A19A9C; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3E3B19A76; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:49:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 456FF19A87; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73F2F19A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8R9h1ef028253 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:43:04 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8R9h1ZG028252 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:43:01 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] PEM Message-ID: <20030927114259.E27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <09cd01c384cd$6603e800$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <09cd01c384cd$6603e800$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 10:00:19AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:43:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 10:00:19AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > i had a quick re-cap on PEM last night. i'm not sure outlook supports it > but it would raise the bar in that it would be simple to just filter on having > the right sort of PEM glop in the message body. this is just for auth, > not for encryption; the message is sent in the clear. > PEM is not supported, to the best of my knowledge, by any mail user agent, presumably it never got taken seriously. There may have been add-ons out there, but they'd be forgotten by now. S/MIME is the successor to PEM and a logical one at that, even though it is saddled with the unavoidable bloat of MIME. There was another contender for that crown, way back early days, but I can't recall the details. > the PEM glop could even be fake ;) avoiding the hideous x.509 root > CA nightmare. now, if i could get my hands on a CA that i could trust > without chucking money at Verisad (sic) [who i don't trust] et al ... PGP imitates PEM pretty closely in the e-mail context, so you could check for PGP signatures and their ilk in the message body. Expecting the headers to contain certificates etc would be a bit much. The problem is that Ron's requirements are not being met: the message has to be accepted before being scanned, whereas it ought to be rejected at the envelope level. And the envelope is [E]SMTP. SSL is one mechanism, but then Dave's Chinese friends have a problem because their certificate is inside the message. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 18:58:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 18:58:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27927 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 18:58:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27923 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 18:58:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 18:58:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6052319A1D; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E928619A63; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:58:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF6B519A63; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02B5519A1D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <8593307-18019>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:56:57 -0400 Message-ID: <0a0201c384d1$afd355c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <09cd01c384cd$6603e800$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927114259.E27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] PEM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:31:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The problem is that Ron's requirements are not being met: the > message has to be accepted before being scanned, whereas it ought > to be rejected at the envelope level. don't i bloody know it :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 19:21:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 19:21:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28374 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 19:21:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28370 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 19:21:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 19:21:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68DA519AB2; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EF4B19A70; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:21:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0A7519A91; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF0D219A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8RAFNef028336 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:15:25 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8RAFMRD028335 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:15:22 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030927121521.F27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2e7e48ea41b82dbd542a007030b41e0a@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030926152349.O19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <076101c38463$002bb900$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030927080132.A27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <09d101c384cd$b304bc60$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <09d101c384cd$b304bc60$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 10:02:29AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:15:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 10:02:29AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > Just for the sake of stirring the pot, I've been considering an > > anonymising mail server ever since anon.penet.fi (it's been such > > a long time I can't even tell if I got the right name) was established > > what was the screwup where an anonymiser spat out everyone > in the clear? anyway, i don't want to be anonymous. i just wanna > takes these T's [spammers] down. That's a programming error, they deserve what they got :-) In the PEM spec is an option whose name escapes me now (I have the PEM RFCs not quite at hand) where the certificate asserts you _are_not_ the designated (oh, yes!) "persona". That is how an anonymous server would operate. You submit your PGP public key in the name of and I file it in the database. All mail encrypted with your private key (identified by your key hash) is decrypted using your public key and re-encrypted with the server private key before being forwarded to the recipients. You can naturally encrypt the contents with the recipients' keys to ensure the server does not have access to information you want to protect. Seeing that you're already using one level of encryption, you may as well use two, if it's worth it. Likewise, all mail to will be encrypted on arrival with your public key and posted to a public queue. You can then request your messages by PGP key hash. I haven't thought of a sensible removal mechanism, but I suppose you could have a proper identity on the server and use standard filesystem permissions - at which point one may as well provide POP or IMAP services - or I could just expire the messages after some agreed time period and you'd have to figure how to avoid repeatedly reading the same information. Quite frankly, upas/fs would seem perfectly suitable here. Use the PGP hash (or equivalent for PKI suckers) as the user ID. I just thought that having a public pool of messages would be somehow worthwhile, maybe as a newsboard? As the sole details I have of your identity are the hash and a public key that asserts you _are_not_ , there isn't much an authority could do to force me to reveal who you are. ++L PS: this is not as remote as one may think, I already need to upgrade the HIVEMIND.NET server that provides a number of mailing list services to the broad Internet community in South Africa. I may well add ANON capabilities to it: it also serves the local NetRaver community and there have been many requests to/not to archive the mail for obvious reasons, so ANONimising their mail would probably be well received there. PPS: I'd appreciate if anyone who can identify loopholes in the above would raise the issue with me, as I'm not very good at conceiving all possible facets in a situation such as this. PPPS: One more OT thing. I use RAV Antivirus on the NetBSD servers at my clients. It isn't perfect, but it sure beats not having it. It isn't either pricey or cheap, I think it's fairly priced. But having looked at its functionality as well as the dreadful offering from F-Secure as regards central management of their perfectly reasonable workstation-level virus checker, it struck me that Inferno would be the perfect platform to deploy an e-mail infrastructure for the medium, possibly large corporation. In other words, as soon as MS-Exchange collapses under the weight of thoughtless implementation combined with multiple global attacks by more and more aggressive viruses and spam, there will be a huge gap for a replacement tool developed entirely as an Inferno application. Vitanuova Notes, anyone? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Sep 27 19:57:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Sep 27 19:57:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29042 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Sep 2003 19:57:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29037 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2003 19:57:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Sep 2003 19:57:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDC1119AAF; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B65199F0; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:57:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EBDB19A76; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 614C7199F0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b52be1917cd440d351f37a9ffc7634a@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030926143949.N19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:56:13 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Taylor uucp 1.07 compiles under APE after the usual fighting with configure and fixing a few type errors. This time I ran configure on Mac OS X to generate the Makefiles, copied the source tree to Plan 9 and corrected the Makefiles and config.h by hand. config.h was way off for Plan 9 and I deleted all the .Po crud in the Makefiles to avoid recompiling the world on every `make'. I also simplified uucp.h (read `deleted huge chunks') by making the simplifying assumption of an ANSI C implementation, *as any sane person would nowadays*! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 01:22:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 01:22:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3018 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 01:22:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3014 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 01:22:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 01:22:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9E1C19A76; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99A86199DD; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:22:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D233D19A3E; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E3AA199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <086f01c38472$c0ba9f60$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:19:18 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // M[aster] C[ontrol] P[rogram], right? yeah, from Tron! what a great movie... :-) ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 01:26:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 01:26:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3135 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 01:26:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3131 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 01:26:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 01:26:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A754719A84; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21A1019A6F; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:26:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CE65199EB; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DFD9199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Sat Sep 27 12:24:56 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:24:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ah, youth. And the Beatles Revolution is the Nike song. :) Brantley On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:19:18 -0400, wrote: > // M[aster] C[ontrol] P[rogram], right? > > yeah, from Tron! what a great movie... > :-) > ã‚¢ > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 01:39:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 01:39:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3368 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 01:39:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3364 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 01:39:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 01:39:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC51A19A91; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4797B199EB; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C9C919A3E; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 930AD199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:36:44 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i actually didn't know Nike used it. that's kind of... amusing. and the beatles had a *few* revolutions. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 16:56:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 16:56:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26523 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 16:56:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26519 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 16:56:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 16:56:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 712CD19ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26BA719ABC; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:56:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60CB219ABC; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61D9D19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3WPE-0000B2-SZ for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:55:48 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20030928075548.GA666@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Subject: [9fans] 9load and 9fat Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:55:48 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I know that under Plan 9 the 9fat directory is a FAT file system. I know that 9load accesses the 9fat directory for plan9.ini and kernels. If 9load were to be replaced with a means for Plan 9 to be booted without 9load, would there be a need to have the 9fat directory? Or would there be any need for a FAT filesystem in Plan 9? I'm asking this after reading prep(8) and Ron Minnich's earlier post in 9fans. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 17:16:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 17:16:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27060 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 17:16:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27056 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 17:16:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 17:16:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A99A19AE4; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFD1F19ACF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:16:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A28619ACF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6880B19ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8S8Aqef001222 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:10:57 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8S8ApJU001221 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:10:51 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from ron minnich on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 04:46:50PM -0600 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:10:50 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 04:46:50PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > > We have a half-working solution now on 9grid. I agree with everything > everyone has said about the limitations of import /mail/box but I don't > see the current SMTP-based systems lasting a whole lot longer if you can't > even say > > Subject: Thank you > > in a mail message. > Choate is quite correct that the solution is not a technological one, but a social one. It has always been: in NetNews, the recommended response to unacceptable behaviour was to ignore it, which still applies, in spades. Not reject it, not get angry about it, simply ignore it, as early as possible. Choate suggests legal recourse, within the existing system. Again, harrassment could be used, I think it would work if one could target the perpetrator rather than some innocent, unwitting victim. Our job is to provide the tools that make prosecution possible, together with the features that diminish unprosecuted/unprosecutable harrassment to a level where communication is not worse than lack of communication. But the objective will be to get rid of SPAM and e-mail viruses altogether, whether attainable or not. 9grid proposes a distributed mailbox. We have that already, just a different model, the difference is that the new model is still under development and does not carry the legacy baggage of RFC821/2 with it. I don't think it's such a big deal to admit that RFC821/2 are obsolete (I do mean RFC2822 and any other successor as well) and that a new approach is required. The difficulties can be listed: - Legacy: can't be helped, that's where the problem lies in the first place. - Acceptance: critical mass problem, will probably sort itself out, possibly making somebody very, very rich. - Design: Once the actual issues are properly identified, there is really very little left other than redefine the concepts of RFC821/2 for a new world order. One can even safely discard all the legacy stuff that RFC822 addressed as it no longer exists. Of course, one can jump into the breach and provide a totally new solution (distributed fileservices for mailboxes), but that's a technicality. I'm sure even Collyer will agree. So what are the issues? - Unsolicited mail: I want to be able to send some, receive some, but most of it is unwanted. Maybe the "Don't speak to strangers" rule applies and one ought to get an introduction. Historically, it seems to me this has happened before (the Renaissance?). It puts certain introduction agents in an enviable position, but then they probably are there because they can be trusted (notaries, that type of thing, perhaps?). I think it boils down to identity and I think the PEM people and the ITU-T tried to provide a mechanical solution to a political problem and we may have to undo this. As long as a technical solution is sought or believed to be valid, there will be an option for social enginnering to subvert it. - Theft of Identity: somebody has hijacked a trusted identity. We've lived with this for a long time, one makes it as difficult as possible for the identity to be stolen, then makes is as easy as possible to recover from the damage. A Choate solution would report it to the "authorities", in my understanding of Choate's opinion more to deter future perpetrators than to punish the current one. It's a judgement call, my opinion is more neutral, but doesn't conflict with Choate's and certainly requires an "authority" capable of prosecuting a perpetrator. How one persuades a sensitive organisation to disclose such attacks when it may damage its reputation? By threatening with much more damaging sanctions if it doesn't. Yet another social rather than technical solution. But the tools are technological ones and need careful design not to become a form of oppression. I'm sure I ought to list more issues and problems, but this is boring enough, let someone else add to this list. Keep in mind that I believe Ron is right: we don't have a lot of time left. ++L PS: I don't have a problem with each mail recipient acting as its own CA and issuing certificates left, right and centre that can be used to further certify agents on behalf of the sender. X.509's certification hierarchy allows for this and it may be best employed as a certification audit trail. I'm not (yet) competent enough to code the tools to create and inspect such a certification audit trail, but I believe there is ample competence on this list to do it, and do it timeously. PPS: Choate, I hope I haven't ruined your reputation irreparably by agreeing with you. I certainly could have miscronstrued your opinions and I apologise in advance if I did. Please do not hesitate to correct me (in private would be preferable, I won't hesitate to issue public corrections if required). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 17:20:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 17:20:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27188 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 17:20:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27184 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 17:20:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 17:20:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86D0F19AF3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9217E19AD3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0193A19ACF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A578119ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8S8F8ef001265 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:15:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8S8F7hj001264 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:15:07 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat Message-ID: <20030928101506.K27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928075548.GA666@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <20030928075548.GA666@0xfe.org>; from Vester Thacker on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 04:55:48PM +0900 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:15:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 04:55:48PM +0900, Vester Thacker wrote: > > I know that under Plan 9 the 9fat directory is a FAT file system. > I know that 9load accesses the 9fat directory for plan9.ini and > kernels. If 9load were to be replaced with a means for Plan 9 to > be booted without 9load, would there be a need to have the 9fat > directory? Or would there be any need for a FAT filesystem in > Plan 9? I'm asking this after reading prep(8) and Ron Minnich's > earlier post in 9fans. > I think the more recent 9loads can read the Plan 9 filesystem so, no, there is no need for a FAT partition, although the chicken and egg problem of where to find plan9.ini is still haunting Plan 9 boot. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 17:35:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 17:35:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27469 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 17:35:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27465 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 17:35:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 17:35:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5806419AE3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F58F19AB8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:35:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED2D219AD3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28D2319AB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3X10-0000D3-5D for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:34:50 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat Message-ID: <20030928083450.GA771@0xfe.org> References: <20030928075548.GA666@0xfe.org> <20030928101506.K27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030928101506.K27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:34:50 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 10:15:06AM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: > > I think the more recent 9loads can read the Plan 9 filesystem so, > no, there is no need for a FAT partition, although the chicken and > egg problem of where to find plan9.ini is still haunting Plan 9 > boot. I'd suggest /sys/boot for the files, but I was really just interested in the relationship between 9fat, the FAT file system, and 9load. Thanks for clearing this up. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 18:01:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 18:01:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28677 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 18:01:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28673 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 18:01:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:01:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E650619AE4; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0FB919ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:01:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3E1519AA6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68B8719AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <224530-26923>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:00:02 -0400 Message-ID: <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:59:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Choate is quite correct that the solution is > not a technological one, but a social one. nonsense, he thinks like an american; litigation being the 'solution'. > ignore it, which still applies, in spades. ignore it? how do do you ignore it whenit is thrown in your mailbox and some of it is just plain harrassment. > Not reject it, not get angry about it, simply ignore it, as early > as possible. it's a 'no can do'. > Choate suggests legal recourse, within the existing system. Again, > harrassment could be used, I think it would work if one could target > the perpetrator rather than some innocent, unwitting victim. you can't target the T -- that is the root of the problem. the Received: headers give you a clue, but they are by no means certain. > Our job is to provide the tools that make prosecution possible, > together with the features that diminish unprosecuted/unprosecutable > harrassment to a level where communication is not worse than lack > of communication. But the objective will be to get rid of SPAM > and e-mail viruses altogether, whether attainable or not. no, i know when to use a technical solution and when to use a legal/political one. in this case a technical solution would work. in any case the courts don't really recognise a stream of, completely forgable, bits as any form of proof: eg. al capone finally got done for _tax evasion_, rather than hist other 'activities'. litigation is a fools game. read _the justice game_: http://www.portia.org/books/jgame.html > PS: I don't have a problem with each mail recipient acting as its > own CA and issuing certificates left, right and centre that can be > used to further certify agents on behalf of the sender. X.509's > certification hierarchy allows for this and it may be best employed > as a certification audit trail. you don't understand the the faults of PKI. issuing certs left right and center breaks the 'trust'. paying money to root CA's (which i don't trust) is a waste of money and time. look at the bastion of security Verisad (sic). since the wildcard A records where installed spam has skyrocketed and so has the discussion about it on 9fans. like my man dave [not presotto] told me that 'i' should 'cut that shit out'. however, since i got spamoff to go [@sdgm.net], which included filling up dan's proc table once, the thousands of spam just get flung back at 'em and then they bounce and then they get trashed, rather than filling up /mail/box/boyd/mbox, which keeps me (and i suppose dan) happy. it chews up resources, but it doesn't fill /n/dump. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 18:03:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 18:03:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28706 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 18:03:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28702 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 18:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:03:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8A5119AFF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9357519ABD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:03:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20E3D19ABD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4818E19A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <224707-26924>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:02:29 -0400 Message-ID: <020601c3859f$2a2b9760$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928075548.GA666@0xfe.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:01:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) not really. russ explained it pretty well: http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/usbflop.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 18:10:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 18:10:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28916 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 18:10:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28912 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 18:10:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:10:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70F8B19AF5; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E64019ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6663619ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B4B119A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <331a35e5f9d4b8aabb95e6e7c3e3675e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <00fd01c3855d$62e91100$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:08:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > everyone has said about the limitations of import /mail/box but I don't > see the current SMTP-based systems lasting a whole lot longer ... i used to think that about XML then again, there aren't whole conferences about SMTP so you might be lucky. more seriously, what's more likely is that Microsoft (say) will suddenly leap in to point out that SMTP clearly doesn't work and therefore everyone ought to use such-and-such a scheme that, curiously, works best with their servers everywhere and where the protocol is lightly documented and hard to match. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 18:19:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 18:19:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29131 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 18:19:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29127 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 18:19:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:19:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FD191999B; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04764199FD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B621A19A07; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D516B1999B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2550287-18053>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:17:47 -0400 Message-ID: <023101c385a1$378ca960$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <331a35e5f9d4b8aabb95e6e7c3e3675e@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:16:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Forsyth" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits > > everyone has said about the limitations of import /mail/box but I don't > > see the current SMTP-based systems lasting a whole lot longer ... > > i used to think that about XML > then again, there aren't whole conferences about SMTP > so you might be lucky. XML what a mess [reaches ...] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 18:48:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 18:48:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29954 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 18:48:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29950 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 18:48:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:48:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A92A019AF0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5283D19A0C; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:48:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0B3319A2D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DC75199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 05:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8S9gSef001456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:29 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8S9gRhG001455 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:28 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 10:59:25AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 10:59:25AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > Choate is quite correct that the solution is > > not a technological one, but a social one. > > nonsense, he thinks like an american; litigation being the 'solution'. > Ron agrees with him, too: in the good ole days we cut miscreants out. Not a _legal_ solution, a _social_ one. The tool was technology, but if no one else gave you a connection or account, you were out for good. > > ignore it, which still applies, in spades. > > ignore it? how do do you ignore it whenit is thrown in your mailbox > and some of it is just plain harrassment. > OK, then: receive it, resend it, get it delivered elsewhere and rejected once again. It's pity it can't start a loop, I suppose? > > Not reject it, not get angry about it, simply ignore it, as early > > as possible. > > it's a 'no can do'. > Objection, my Lord! Ignoring it at the door knock level is as early as one can wish for. Now, how do we do it? > > Choate suggests legal recourse, within the existing system. Again, > > harrassment could be used, I think it would work if one could target > > the perpetrator rather than some innocent, unwitting victim. > > you can't target the T -- that is the root of the problem. the Received: > headers give you a clue, but they are by no means certain. > So what's the solution? Generating traffic and punish everyone else? Sounds like Pharaoh and the Plagues of Egypt. > no, i know when to use a technical solution and when to use a > legal/political one. in this case a technical solution would work. > Both require _new_ tools. As a technologist, it is easy to think that politicians are fools. Which is why no technologist has ever run a country, into the ground or otherwise. > you don't understand the the faults of PKI. issuing certs left right and > center breaks the 'trust'. paying money to root CA's (which i don't trust) > is a waste of money and time. > Between you and Choate, you're getting irritating: "You don't understand..." Maybe you can explain, if you're so fucking clever! > look at the bastion of security Verisad (sic). since the wildcard A records > where installed spam has skyrocketed and so has the discussion about > it on 9fans. > What's that got to do with X.509? Mark Shuttleworth explained to me that there were two official top-level CAs, a third one never took itself seriously. The key, apparently, was in the policy document, which is of course what you now criticise. It was worth a whole lot of money, to Mark and associates. Anyone can be a CA, it's just too late to ride the Netscape bandwagon. But for private use, all that's needed is a set of easy to use tools. Not far from what MS released with Win2K. I haven't looked at Shuttleworth's (Thawte's) web of trust model, but it probably undermines the CA monopoly pretty successfully. > however, since i got spamoff to go [@sdgm.net], which included filling > up dan's proc table once, the thousands of spam just get flung back > at 'em and then they bounce and then they get trashed, rather than > filling up /mail/box/boyd/mbox, which keeps me (and i suppose dan) > happy. it chews up resources, but it doesn't fill /n/dump. > Well, it's probably a good solution in the First and New Worlds. But here in Africa bandwidth is more expensive than disk space or instruction cycles (we pay for our mail to get to you _and_ your mail to get to us). Generating traffic is not appropriate. It really never was, and will never be as there will always be some other use for the bandwidth that is more deserving. ++L PS: Any bet how long it will take for spammers to figure a way around Boyd's block? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 19:18:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 19:18:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30590 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 19:18:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30586 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 19:18:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 19:18:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86DB919AF3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD15F19AB8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:18:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C0CF19AC0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4E9919AB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37477b39bbe70b4ef8ddcfdb150ea72e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:16:41 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> PS: I don't have a problem with each mail recipient acting as its >> own CA and issuing certificates left, right and centre that can be >> used to further certify agents on behalf of the sender. X.509's >> certification hierarchy allows for this and it may be best employed >> as a certification audit trail. >you don't understand the the faults of PKI. issuing certs left right and >center breaks the 'trust'. paying money to root CA's (which i don't trust) >is a waste of money and time. there has been quite a bit of work done and published before and after x.509 (and PGP as well for that matter). i recently discovered http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/EC/Bled03.html, which is quite a good brisk survey, with trenchant observations. Carl Ellison has a good web site with lots of useful links: to other good web sites: http://world.std.com/~cme/html/spki.html. aside: the parent site has a link that takes a good whack at ASN.1 ``ASN.1 is viewed differently by writers of standards and implementers. Neither group is unanimous in its evaluation, but it tends to be predominantly favoured by the former and predominantly despised by the latter.'' http://world.std.com/~cme/P1363/asn1.html ``... for a total code size [for ASN.1] of 55085 characters, as compared to the original 48 characters [for the obvious if less flexible C version] ... an expansion in code by a factor of 1148'' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 19:21:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 19:21:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30642 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 19:21:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30638 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 19:21:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 19:21:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97E4519ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B782919ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:21:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DB3D19ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26B6A19AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2550042-18171>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:19:42 -0400 Message-ID: <026801c385a9$d58c1300$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:18:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > PS: Any bet how long it will take for spammers to figure a way around > Boyd's block? i understand its failure modes, but it raises the bar and it's in the public domain so it's open to scrutiny. brahma% cd log/mail brahma% ls -l alrw--w--w- M 262286 boyd boyd 65712 Sep 28 05:57 audit alrw--w--w- M 262286 boyd boyd 126632 Sep 28 05:57 errors alrw--w--w- M 262286 boyd boyd 88174 Sep 28 05:57 rejects brahma% wc -l errors 1349 errors brahma% so when stuff starts winding up in my mbox, i'll just raise the bar. that's how security works: what have you got to guard? how much is it worth to guard it? short of hacking an stmp server (which i'm loathed to do) i'd implement a stat based black/white list. you do not, in my beloved corps, screw up with smtp. btw: whoever got snarf/copy/paste right on windows' drawterm did a great job. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 19:25:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 19:25:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30698 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 19:25:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30694 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 19:25:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 19:25:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E57919ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5352B19AAA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA85A19ACA; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 240FC19A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2550275-18171>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:24:35 -0400 Message-ID: <026e01c385aa$84c2cf80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <37477b39bbe70b4ef8ddcfdb150ea72e@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:23:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > is quite a good brisk survey, with trenchant observations. 'tranchant' [cutting] now that's a good present participle. 'double tranchant' == double edged sword From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 19:53:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 19:53:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31337 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 19:53:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31333 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 19:53:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 19:53:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D6ADF19AFE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2907E19AFD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:53:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C2EC19AD9; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B21319AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3694068-17790>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 06:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <029301c385ae$4a244300$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:50:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) now is all ISPs enforced the rule that the MGRS coords of the ISP or the sender were added as the standard sig at least you could call in a JDAM on them, but this is very open to blue-on-blue man-in-the-middle attacks. -- MGRS 31U DQ 52579 12613 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 20:09:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 20:09:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31952 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 20:09:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31945 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 20:09:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 20:09:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B226E19B10; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E34E519AF3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:09:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 55AD319AF9; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E16519AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <263932-27389>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:06:51 -0400 Message-ID: <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:05:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Between you and Choate, you're getting irritating: "You don't > understand..." Maybe you can explain, if you're so fucking clever! you need a root CA or some other CA you trust. this depends on the DNS, which can be spoofed, hence possiblty giving you a false public key. key revocation never worked. TLS/SSL is so complex that the bugs kept turning up. someone at the labs even had a theoretical [impractical, but possible] an attack on it. that's why we don't use 2DES, 'cos there is theoretical attack where you meet in the the middle. sure, it's costly, but the solution is to go to 3DES. DES 'died' back in the early '90s (unless you were the NSA, where it probably died well before that). once you had encrypted the 'crack' dictionary [~50k 'words'] with all the 4096 salts busting a password file with a shell script and took seconds. generating the dictionary back then took a month. i did this once, as an experiment and to test internal security. on that point i'm NDA'd on any further discussion. # 248 622 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 20:24:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 20:24:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32340 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 20:24:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32336 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 20:24:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 20:24:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6ED3D19AC0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6757B19B00; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:24:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F2C719AE7; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91CCD19A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8SBIpef001649 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:18:53 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8SBIpjA001648 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:18:51 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030928131850.O27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <029301c385ae$4a244300$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <029301c385ae$4a244300$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 12:50:09PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:18:50 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 12:50:09PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > now is all ISPs enforced the rule that the MGRS coords of the > ISP or the sender were added as the standard sig at least > you could call in a JDAM on them, but this is very open to > blue-on-blue man-in-the-middle attacks. > -- > MGRS 31U DQ 52579 12613 ICBMs? :-) :-) There's a definite need for delegation of authority with associated acceptance of responsibility in the sender-exchanger relationship. ISPs have rules about use, but enforcement by severance is inadequate. I maintain that the solution has to involve punishment, probably to the point where the few that are caught will have to pay on behalf of those who get away. Our recent legislation (in South Africa) attempted to address the problem, but lacked the understanding (oops, I'm doing a Choate here) to arrive at a sensible product (the ECT Act is online somewhere, but it's frightfully irritating in its ability to get close to bone without quite ever making it, mail me and I'll look for it). What I found immensely annoying is that no one was able to provide sensible alternatives to even the most inappropriate sections of the Act. And it's not through lack of interest, it just seemed impossible to formulate in legislative terms what was technologically obvious. And I don't exclude myself from the list of attempts. There is a serious communication gap between technologists and users and it looks insurmountable. Let's not ignore that in our quest. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 20:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 20:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 378 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 20:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 369 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 20:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 20:48:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0D7B19AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B950219A8E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA7B919AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 064C319A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2550077-18052>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:47:07 -0400 Message-ID: <02e501c385b5$dadd0b00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <029301c385ae$4a244300$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928131850.O27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:44:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) JDAM: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/ppcp97c1.htm From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 20:52:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 20:52:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 449 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 20:52:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 445 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 20:52:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 20:52:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6735419B10; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61E7719A8E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:52:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB27919ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EEFA19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8SBl3ef001708 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:47:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8SBl282001707 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:47:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030928134701.P27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:05:19PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:47:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:05:19PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > Between you and Choate, you're getting irritating: "You don't > > understand..." Maybe you can explain, if you're so fucking clever! > > you need a root CA or some other CA you trust. this depends on > the DNS, which can be spoofed, hence possiblty giving you a false > public key. > That was the point I was trying to make. I'll issue you a certificate (a tiny one, without all the stupid frills). Not only, I'll issue you a CA certificate, so you can in turn certify your ISP or your pretty cousin that acts as your SMTP gateway. I'll accept their certificates as being your agent. I probably won't accept them as proof of their identity, however. That's an interesting aside not to be indulged here. > key revocation never worked. > I accept that. It doesn't look like it could conceivably be taken seriously by anyone. We've had our banks (we have only a few here as the entrance qualifications are absurdly steep) fall foul of expiry. But why I should trust Veristupid (sic) in preference to a bank that's more or less managed my overdraft for the past 25 years, I fail to understand. Yet everyone jumped in horror when MSIE raised the alarm. More of that lack of communication between tech and non-tech. Even within one's brain, seemingly, as the only squawkers I heard were techies. But when I revoke the certificate I issued to you, I will (hopefully) know about it. That type of revocation had better work. > TLS/SSL is so complex that the bugs kept turning up. someone at the > labs even had a theoretical [impractical, but possible] an attack on it. > That was addressed and fixed. I assume that real cryptographers know what they are doing, the maths is too convoluted (life is too short) for me to do it myself. But I'm prepared to respect the experts with a reputation (Steve Bellovin come to mind, but there are plenty others). If there is a preferable approach, it hasn't made any dent in my awareness. And I accept I'm not on the coal face, nor does "good" imply "successful", nor do all clever schemes get published for the health of the Internet (think NSA), still, if SSL could migrate to TLS against entropy, maybe further migration towards greater entropy is possible. > that's why we don't use 2DES, 'cos there is theoretical attack where > you meet in the the middle. sure, it's costly, but the solution is to go > to 3DES. DES 'died' back in the early '90s (unless you were the NSA, > where it probably died well before that). > DES has yet to be shown not to be intentionally back-doored. But respected encryption algorithms are ten-a-penny, to the great confusion of those who have to make decisions and cannot possibly be expected to know everything cryptographic. I thought TLS used blowfish and that rijndael had been picked as the final word in international trusted encryption schemes? > once you had encrypted the 'crack' dictionary [~50k 'words'] with all > the 4096 salts busting a password file with a shell script and took > seconds. generating the dictionary back then took a month. > Cracking the Unix security to read /etc/shadow or /etc/master.passwd takes a different approach. As you suggest, the solution should be less expensive than the problem. You forget that the price you pay has little in common with the gains of your enemy. That is also an important factor. I'm upgrading a site of some two hundred users right now, with the option to change from DES to RC5 for login passwords. The trauma involved in the migration is going to offset any possible security gain by orders of magnitude, specially as the sharing of passwords seems more the norm than the exception around here. Why bother? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 21:03:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 21:03:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 767 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 21:03:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 763 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 21:03:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 21:03:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3CE219AFD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA11B19AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0040319ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35F0119A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <225109-26923>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:01:51 -0400 Message-ID: <02fb01c385b7$e6620a00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928134701.P27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:58:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Why bother? at the time i had a small concern about virii turning up in the dynamically loadable microcode. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 21:14:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 21:14:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 962 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 958 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A201A19AFF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D36419AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:14:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A288F19A8E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1196819AD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1baaaf5b9996d13f681c862dd8d41439@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat In-Reply-To: <20030928101506.K27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:12:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think the more recent 9loads can read the Plan 9 filesystem so, > no, there is no need for a FAT partition, although the chicken and > egg problem of where to find plan9.ini is still haunting Plan 9 > boot. Only if your Plan 9 file system is the now-obsolete kfs. Reading a kernel from a fossil+venti file system is quite a lot more code, so it seems 9fat is going to stay for a bit longer. Sadly. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 21:23:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 21:23:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1223 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 21:23:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1219 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 21:23:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 21:23:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E37419AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5145819AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:23:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EDBA19A8E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEBD019A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8SCHHef001792 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:17:19 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8SCHGjh001791 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:17:16 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030928141715.R27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030928134701.P27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <02fb01c385b7$e6620a00$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <02fb01c385b7$e6620a00$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:58:56PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:17:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:58:56PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > Why bother? > > at the time i had a small concern about virii turning up in the dynamically > loadable microcode. Life was a lot easier for those of us who, like me, admired in wonderment the behaviour of the ping-pong virus without giving it much more of a thought because it had only so far affected the computers of other, less sophisticated users. I guess my security days started when my PC was eventually compromised and I had to figure out what was going on. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Sep 28 21:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Sep 28 21:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1309 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Sep 2003 21:27:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1305 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 21:27:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 21:27:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8513519B1E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F8FD19AAD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:27:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D2CB19AD4; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0916C19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8SCLXef001820 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:21:33 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8SCLXqM001819 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:21:33 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat Message-ID: <20030928142132.S27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928101506.K27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <1baaaf5b9996d13f681c862dd8d41439@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <1baaaf5b9996d13f681c862dd8d41439@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from Russ Cox on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 08:12:55AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:21:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 08:12:55AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > Only if your Plan 9 file system is the now-obsolete kfs. > Reading a kernel from a fossil+venti file system is quite > a lot more code, so it seems 9fat is going to stay for > a bit longer. Sadly. > There's always the floppy drive, although that may cost a little more than 10MB of hard disk. Nice thing about the floppy is that the kernel can be compiled without support for it, so it remains secure against alterations. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 00:34:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 00:34:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5305 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 00:34:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5301 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 00:34:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 00:34:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 321D119AD0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF27619AB6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBEA419AB6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D75C319A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8SFXrXx003351 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:33:53 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8SFXrPK002450 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:33:53 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8SFXq7W008237 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:33:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: <20030928114226.L27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:33:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > Ron agrees with him, too: in the good ole days we cut miscreants > out. I wouldn't go that far. In the good 'ole days, DARPANET was an elitist institution: nobody got in unless DARPA said ok. The boundaries were both institutional and economic -- getting a DARPANET link at your site was costly. We didn't cut them out; they never had a chance to get in. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 00:42:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 00:42:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6169 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 00:42:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6165 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 00:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 00:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8792F19ADD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D158F19AB8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A99B719AB8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C33A019A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <225456-26924>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:40:16 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c385d6$bff7f5e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:39:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I wouldn't go that far. In the good 'ole days, DARPANET was an elitist > institution: nobody got in unless DARPA said ok. bingo. it was designed to be a closed, fault tolerant, net for the military. run by bob ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 00:55:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 00:55:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6454 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 00:55:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6450 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 00:55:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 00:55:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 639FF19AE3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFF8419AB6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:55:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C661719AB8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p206.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.84.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 257FC19AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1688 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Sep 2003 15:53:59 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20030928155359.GA571@mithrandi.za.net> References: <46016185506c42950346d712e2f1d96f@plan9.bell-labs.com> <9c3926d1a7517b520d07a0b749aa6d1c@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9c3926d1a7517b520d07a0b749aa6d1c@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:53:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 14:01:25 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > none of this works if spammers use dubious means > (e.g. viruses) to harness home machines (and by implication > the authentication info that allows the home user to send emails) > to send their spam for them. > > doesn't this already happen? > or is it just for the DDOS attacks? According to what I've read, none of the big spammers are doing that. Of course, they might resort to that if forced. mithrandi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 01:12:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 01:12:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6748 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 01:12:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6744 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 01:12:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 01:12:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5008219ACF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9584619A32; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:12:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C49919ACD; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E00519A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <277663-14055>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:10:38 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c385da$fe0dfc40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] now the fun should begin or ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:10:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) 9fans is on my white list. let's hope it works. -- MGRS 31U DQ 52579 12613 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 01:12:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 01:12:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6756 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 01:12:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6752 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 01:12:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 01:12:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D5A319AFF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F3A319ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:12:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4279119ABB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p206.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.84.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5678B199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3277 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Sep 2003 16:11:32 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Fw: Bug Letter Message-ID: <20030928161132.GB571@mithrandi.za.net> References: <08f601c38478$25af6720$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <08f601c38478$25af6720$b9844051@insultant.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:11:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HTML_00_10,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_RELAYING_FRAME,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 23:50:04 +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > what i don't understand is this purpose of this stupidity? The HTML source contains an messages are now killed by outlook. frames ... [reaches ...] From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 03:03:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 03:03:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9115 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 03:03:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9108 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 03:03:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 03:03:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DBB619B08; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4DAE19AC2; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:03:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CE0E19AD0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3E3819A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] forget authing the senders Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:01:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) why not just use a lamport hash and auth the smtp servers? it'd slow 'em down and you could do it during the 'greeting' phase. whether you accept or deny is up to you, but if you accecpt you could tag the message with: X-did-the-wrong-thing: ip and filter those. back-pressure will kill 'em eventually, which was my initial response when faced with 'you must send iso-latin-1 across a 7 bit channel' (IMP's where the cause of the right?). no new rfc's, no new technology (not much) and the only problem (iirc) is communicating the shared secret. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 03:41:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 03:41:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9926 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 03:41:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9922 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 03:41:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 03:41:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2405E19B05; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CC8919AD0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:41:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 947FD19AE3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3311319A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8SIZXef002405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:35:35 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8SIZUUa002404 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:35:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] forget authing the senders Message-ID: <20030928203528.U27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from boyd@sdgm.net on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 02:01:47PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:35:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 02:01:47PM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > > why not just use a lamport hash and auth the smtp servers? > We're juggling a bunch of hot potatoes. Understand that I have collected: total 134 23753 94484 the above number of instances of SMTP connections from hosts with no reverse lookup (PTR RR) for their IP(v4) address. The first number is the number of such messages in the last 24 hours, the second is the accumulation of _unique_ addresses, the third is the total number of messages over a rather long period, say 600 days. I don't think it's that long, I'm sure it's less than a year. This on a single, fairly busy host. I must try to remember the URL that displays this information in some detail... Anyway, I was all set to reject this traffic on that particular host, as well as my one largish client's mail server. It turns out that the risk of losing mail is greater than the incentive for the senders to repair their sloppy configuration. Pragmatically, I had to buck. That's reality. As long as we are prepared to tolerate, aid and abet poor 'net practices, the spammers will be able to exploit the same attitudes to their ends. If no one replied to SPAM advertising, it would die a natural death. If all relay exchangers were closed, spamming would be too hard to do. At the end of the day, I believe that only legislating spam as a form of criminal activity and being able to identify and prosecute at least a majority of the perpetrators is going to eliminate the problem. It's unlikely, but not impossible and should not be discarded as an option. ++L PS: Here's the promised URL: http://network.hivemind.net/cgi-bin/spamshow.sh it delivers quite a large file, so don't expect fast response (I'm still waiting). Yes, I see I started collection on February 13th. I do appreciate that many of the IP addresses may well have been repaired since they were added to this list. It's hardly of any more than curiosity value, but it's given me pause for thought. And the IP address sort is only feebly numeric. Enough for a guideline. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 03:50:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 03:50:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10034 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 03:50:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10030 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 03:50:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 03:50:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F112319A94; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04D8819AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:50:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCAB119AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E647319A94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83c23cb62374b86a2b9ed16f04a56629@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3F761D1E.9080303@nospam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:48:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>MCP sources were never available online, however, any site could have i thought it might have ended up being made visible by its owner(s) in a similar way to the old unix sources but apparently not. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 03:52:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 03:52:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10138 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 03:52:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10134 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 03:52:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 03:52:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44D7019B00; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4EEA19AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:52:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77C4B19ACB; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC9DB19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c31e1e429810c8df2a896d6b7bfdbb9@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] forget authing the senders In-Reply-To: <20030928203528.U27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:51:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) you don't need a reverse lookup. you never use domain name. getpeername(2) on lunix will hand up the address -- always use dotted quads. anyway? where is your face? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 04:09:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 04:09:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10422 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 04:09:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10418 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 04:09:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 04:09:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6595C19B08; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5790519AE4; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EC8C19AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE09219ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93c064c5169e5ee4b96c1716c6eb5623@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] forget authing the senders In-Reply-To: <20030928203528.U27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:08:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) no At the end of the day, I believe that only legislating spam as a form of criminal activity and being able to identify and prosecute at least a majority of the perpetrators is going to eliminate the problem. It's unlikely, but not impossible and should not be discarded as an option. jurisdiction, proof, varied legal systems -- it will NOT work. i want my 'final solution' and every spam i get motivates me to take these T's down -- with a technical solution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 05:36:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 05:36:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12460 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 05:36:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12456 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 05:36:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 05:36:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57C1A19B08; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C980E19AFF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:36:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4599719AB6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 384FF19AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02125 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8SKZSj10101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309282035.h8SKZSj10101@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Everyone's been talking a good game, but so far, no one's really thought up a comprenehsive *plan* to fix the problem. There are several issues at work here: 1) A lot of people seem to believe that the problem is social in nature, and can be solved legally. 2) Others think a purely technical solution will work. 3) Some feel we should ditch SMTP entirely and come up with something new. 4) Some feel strong authentication will fix the problem, 5) Others feel probabilistic analysis of mail will catch everything, or most everything. 1) Isn't realistic. You can't solve a problem with a law unless you have some way to enforce the law. Currently, we don't. 2) Is only part of the solution. Yes, one needs technical infrastructure before anything else will work. However, technical instrastructure by itself won't solve the problem. 3) That's all well and good, but one needs to be cogniscent of the existing installed base and inertia behind those protocols. They aren't going to be displaced over night, and what's more, unless the alternative solution is *really* *really* good, with all the migration issues worked out, and with clear advantages over the existing status quo, it won't happen at all. A lot of people are fond of saying that a better technical solution will solve everything, that people will be compelled to switch once they see how great the new thing is, etc, etc, etc. However, I'm afraid that just won't pan out. Experience has shown that all too often a technical superior alternative doesn't displace the reigning leader for other, non-technical issues: installed base, lack of a clear migration path, intellectual and emotional investment in the existing infrastructure, etc. 4) See point 2, above. 5) This will never work. The spammers will just find there way around them. How/Why? Because the probabilities involved are simply too big. It's too easy to just flood the user with spams that are better and better to that user's approximations of what isn't spam. Eventually, something will get through. In the process, we've managed to generate probably on the order of 500 or more email messages about it, but without much real progress. While this is fun, kinda, it's not very productive. I suggest doing the following: a) Come up with a meta-protocol for delivery of email in a special-purpose hierarchy. What I mean by this, is design a filesystem that can be imported for delivering mail. Just importing /mail isn't going to fly; it's too big of a hammer. b) Make sure that protocol is relatively straight-forward, and then mimic it in a `standard' protocol that could be approved by the IETF as a replacement for ESMTP/SMTP. This would have to include a meta-protocol for strong authentication, and the protocol would have to have some major advantage over SMTP, such as much better performance, or lower latency, or what have you. I'd say start with something like RSMTP, but that's patented. :-( Note: authentication has to be by some meta-protocol, because people are going to have to transition to it. It's not going to happen over night. c) Contact the authors/maintainers of the most common MTA's and convince them to implement this protocol, and the scaffolding around it. If they don't, you're screwed. But if sendmail and postfix implement it, exim will come along. If you can somehow convince Dan Bernstein to implement it, you've covered a pretty significant portion of Internet email. Once that happens, Microsoft might even come on board. You could even keep SMTP over TLS using SASL authentication for message submission from your (yet-to-be-converted) MUA's, but make MTA<->MTA communication use the new protocol. d) Once you have something in place, go to the IETF and get it standardized, and then get them to ratify it as the replacement for SMTP. Anyway, that's my plan to start on building a new email infrastructure. I suppose the first step is to design a filesystem for message submission over 9p. Anyone got any ideas? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 05:39:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 05:39:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12573 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 05:39:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12569 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 05:39:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 05:39:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2F2A19B00; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55E331998A; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:39:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7164E19AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEAD819AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <200309282035.h8SKZSj10101@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:38:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i got some From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 06:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 06:38:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13662 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 06:38:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13658 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 06:38:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 06:38:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17B6619B0A; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 972FD19A7D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:38:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A260219AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D284A19A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39b17e26a926e5f512cfa9ac236b8ff3@sdgm.net> From: cross@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Patch to secstore to unforce STA authentication. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My CPU server has two interfaces, with seperate IP stacks. I run secstored listening on both. This works reasonably well, except that when using the `-x' flag to get secstored to listen on the second stack (mounted on /net.alt), it forces STA authentication. This isn't really the behavior I want; I don't need STA authentication there. So, I finally got around to adding a flag to secstored to tell it to disable STA authentication in all cases. Here's the patch; could this please be incorporated onto sources? Thanks. - Dan C. brahma% ape/diff -u /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/auth/secstore/secstored.c secstored.c --- /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/auth/secstore/secstored.c Tue Sep 2 13:55:49 2003 +++ secstored.c Sun Sep 28 17:32:17 2003 @@ -319,7 +319,7 @@ void main(int argc, char **argv) { - int afd, dfd, lcfd, forceSTA = 0; + int afd, dfd, lcfd, forceSTA = 0, unforceSTA = 0; char adir[40], ldir[40], *remote; char *serve = "tcp!*!5356", *p, aserve[128], net[128]; char *S = "secstore"; @@ -340,12 +340,18 @@ setnetmtpt(net, sizeof(net), p); forceSTA = 1; // for any non-standard network setting, be paranoid break; + case 'u': + unforceSTA = 1; + break; case 'v': verbose++; break; default: usage(); }ARGEND; + + if(unforceSTA) + forceSTA = 0; if(!verbose) switch(rfork(RFNOTEG|RFPROC|RFFDG)) { brahma% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 06:54:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 06:54:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14215 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14211 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03ACB19B0C; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1961C19A8B; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 809F019AA0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 992B719A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: ehg@plan9.bell-labs.com, cross@sdgm.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Patch to secstore to unforce STA authentication. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cvtzctrcgkwdaziblekoygrduy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:53:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cvtzctrcgkwdaziblekoygrduy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actaully, I think that this is one case of too much paranoia. Is there anyone else besides Bell Labs that uses secstored with STA turned on? If not, I'ld like to just make it an option and not force it just because we're using an alternate stack. --upas-cvtzctrcgkwdaziblekoygrduy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Sep 28 17:38:56 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Sep 28 17:38:53 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DF6319B01; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 974F519A77; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A260219AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D284A19A77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39b17e26a926e5f512cfa9ac236b8ff3@sdgm.net> From: cross@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Patch to secstore to unforce STA authentication. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:37:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My CPU server has two interfaces, with seperate IP stacks. I run secstored listening on both. This works reasonably well, except that when using the `-x' flag to get secstored to listen on the second stack (mounted on /net.alt), it forces STA authentication. This isn't really the behavior I want; I don't need STA authentication there. So, I finally got around to adding a flag to secstored to tell it to disable STA authentication in all cases. Here's the patch; could this please be incorporated onto sources? Thanks. - Dan C. brahma% ape/diff -u /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/auth/secstore/secstored.c secstored.c --- /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/auth/secstore/secstored.c Tue Sep 2 13:55:49 2003 +++ secstored.c Sun Sep 28 17:32:17 2003 @@ -319,7 +319,7 @@ void main(int argc, char **argv) { - int afd, dfd, lcfd, forceSTA = 0; + int afd, dfd, lcfd, forceSTA = 0, unforceSTA = 0; char adir[40], ldir[40], *remote; char *serve = "tcp!*!5356", *p, aserve[128], net[128]; char *S = "secstore"; @@ -340,12 +340,18 @@ setnetmtpt(net, sizeof(net), p); forceSTA = 1; // for any non-standard network setting, be paranoid break; + case 'u': + unforceSTA = 1; + break; case 'v': verbose++; break; default: usage(); }ARGEND; + + if(unforceSTA) + forceSTA = 0; if(!verbose) switch(rfork(RFNOTEG|RFPROC|RFFDG)) { brahma% --upas-cvtzctrcgkwdaziblekoygrduy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 06:59:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 06:59:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14610 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 06:59:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14606 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 06:59:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 06:59:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED4DE19AFF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A841019A8B; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:59:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31EDA19AA0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85DAA19A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8SLwjj10625 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309282158.h8SLwjj10625@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Patch to secstore to unforce STA authentication. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:53:08 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:58:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Sounds good to me. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 07:36:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 07:36:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15225 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 07:36:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15220 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 07:36:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 07:36:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD98D19B11; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1641B19AC2; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C95A519AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF690199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Patch to secstore to unforce STA authentication. From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:34:29 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'd made a similar change From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 07:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 07:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15522 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 07:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15518 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 07:48:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 07:48:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A81319B12; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DF2119AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:48:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53E2B19AC2; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F116C19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200309282035.h8SKZSj10101@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:47:40 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Actually, as far as I know, RSMTP isn't patented yet; the application is still being processed/ignored by the patent office. (The original hope was that this would go *much* faster and that we could then persuade Lucent to dedicate the patent to the public, per set-id, and thus not charge licence fees.) Authentication is the hard part: how do you prove, in court if necessary, that a given message came from a particular real person? Short of legal liability, I think PGP provides the most obvious way to provide a degree of authentication that would be useful for filtering by sender. Note again that I only import /mail/box, not /mail. Point (c) can be simpler: make the transmitter and listener programs drop into sendmail, postfix, upas, etc. and (x)inetd, respectively, so anybody can choose to use the new protocol without hacking (just tweaking configuration files). One can maintain a list of other domains known to listen for the new protocol; one can also just try to connect using the new protocol for a moment before falling back to smtp. Points (b) and (d) seem dauntingly hard to me: the IETF has become a political organisation, with legendarily fearsome politics. I don't know what it takes to get a protocol through the IETF relatively undamaged. Do you have to know the right people and have them like you? Does the protocol have to avoid use of the most-significant bit (gag)? Does it have to use CRLF line termination (in text)? Just how dumbed-down and compatible with all past mistakes does it have to be? I'd be inclined instead to just build something that works and let the IETF catch up, as done with UTF-8. (Also with Unix and C; POSIX and ANSI eventually caught up, and I'm glad that Unix and C weren't designed with acceptability to standards bodies in mind.) So my plan would be: build something good that doesn't require a flash cut-over, document it, make drop-in components for sendmail, etc. and inetd, etc., distribute the works freely, and let the IETF write it up when they get around to it. (This actually is how the IETF theoretically works: they supposedly bless existing practice, rather than inventing untested protocols and decreeing that the serfs shall use them.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 07:50:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 07:50:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15555 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 07:50:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15551 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 07:50:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 07:50:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7373419B13; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95EDB19AD0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 378D919AD0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A72C19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0b44bf18cd9b6fc09bc6739654620101@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <200309282035.h8SKZSj10101@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:49:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If you can somehow convince Dan Bernstein to implement it that's a big fucking _if_. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 07:53:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 07:53:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15678 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 07:53:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15674 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 07:53:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 07:53:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A42B19B0E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B926419A8E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:53:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2FB2199D6; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20598199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:52:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'd be inclined instead to just build something that works and let the IETF catch up, as done with UTF-8. i'm with you, captain. i know dan wants to do it right, but it's just too hard. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 07:57:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 07:57:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15708 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 07:57:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15704 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 07:57:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 07:57:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F0EF19B18; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7DF119A07; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:57:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4568119A07; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A513619A1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8ae4687934facc1d2b7f35c15ca649af@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:56:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i know dan wants to do it right, but it's just too hard. then again, he may be crazy enough and smart enough to do it anyway. hoo-ahh!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 08:22:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 08:22:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16162 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 08:22:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16158 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 08:22:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 08:22:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEDE819B1F; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53A4D19B10; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:22:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29A4A19B10; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FD7C19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Sep 2003 01:19:56 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8SNLMAR024305 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:21:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id AAA17964 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:21:24 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. Message-ID: <20030929002124.H28514@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <200309282035.h8SKZSj10101@augusta.math.psu.edu> <0b44bf18cd9b6fc09bc6739654620101@sdgm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <0b44bf18cd9b6fc09bc6739654620101@sdgm.net>; from boyd@sdgm.net on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 06:49:15PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:21:24 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 06:49:15PM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > If you can somehow convince Dan Bernstein to implement it > > that's a big fucking _if_. Well he seems to have already come to the conclusion that some form of postage is needed for email... Mind there are a lot of addon patches distributed for qmail, and it's quite easy to plug things into it. So one could produce an alternate transport mechanism as a program to run instead of the qmail-smtpd and qmail-remote (? can't remember which is SMTP client) programs. DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 08:45:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 08:45:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16726 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 08:45:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16722 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 08:45:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 08:45:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D605719B1D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D08519AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43FFD19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91CE219AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8SNi5j11147 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309282344.h8SNi5j11147@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:56:05 EDT." <8ae4687934facc1d2b7f35c15ca649af@sdgm.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:44:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > then again, he may be crazy enough and smart enough to do it anyway. Thanks Boyd, that's flattering. :-) > hoo-ahh!! But one thing I have to say. You keep using Marine Corps imagery, but in the Corps, we say, ``Ooo-Rah.'' ``Hoo-ahh'' is something the US Army says. Ooorah has an interesting history; apparantly it originated in the 1950's as a mutation of ``aarugha'', which was the sound made by the dive klaxon on the old diesel submarines of the era. Recon platoons used to be transported on those, and they adopted the sound as a running chant. When belted out from the stomach, as when running, it sounds like ``ooorah.'' - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 08:59:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 08:59:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17089 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 08:59:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17085 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 08:59:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 08:59:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9056C19B1C; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 189BB19AAE; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:59:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F3C119B16; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10A1C19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <200309282344.h8SNi5j11147@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:58:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i call it as see it & i got the the Hoo-ahh from my mate in the PAARNG. another good man. from ny. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 09:05:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 09:05:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17520 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 09:05:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17516 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 09:05:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 09:05:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B428E19B22; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36F9A19B0F; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:05:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CC9819B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1AE819AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03240 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8T04Fj11389 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309290004.h8T04Fj11389@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:58:46 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:04:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i call it as see it & i got the the Hoo-ahh from my mate in the PAARNG. > > another good man. from ny. That is no excuse, maggot! You will not laugh, you will not cry! You will learn by the numbers. I will teach you. Now get up! Get on your feet! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 09:17:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 09:17:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18044 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 09:17:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18037 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 09:17:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 09:17:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE6EC19B19; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E89519B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:17:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2CC8199D8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C00199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <200309290004.h8T04Fj11389@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:16:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) :) this guy is an lt and drives an M-1 abrambs and spent 8 months in bosnia (un peackeeping). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 09:21:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 09:21:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18183 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 09:21:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18173 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 09:21:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 09:21:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C6D619B17; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D3BE19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:21:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 894AC19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECE3B19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65bcb34dde147425a7a109a12d3bce64@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <200309282344.h8SNi5j11147@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:20:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i see :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 09:24:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 09:24:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18301 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 09:24:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18297 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 09:24:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 09:24:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 065C219B28; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CBB119B0F; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:24:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EDBE19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CFFF19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Thoughts on squashing the spam bug. In-Reply-To: <20030929002124.H28514@edinburgh.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:23:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) bernstein is a lot like choate, except bernstein is smart. i have had the odd engagement with him ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 10:19:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 10:19:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21519 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 10:19:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21515 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 10:19:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 10:19:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91A3819B20; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF91D19AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47CC519AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5163919AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8T1IVtq010369 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7f53924991ccee1fa568d61153a2d396@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20030928231632.37325.qmail@web80109.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] And now for something completely different... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:18:34 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2002/02/25/ashcroft.sings.wbtv.med.html If we could only get a video of him singing in a Karaoke bar, with a goat on his lap! That might also work for people on standard committees. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 10:34:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 10:34:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22216 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 10:34:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22212 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 10:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 10:34:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5197719B29; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF03C19B1E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:34:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1315F19B1E; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E2819B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] And now for something completely different... In-Reply-To: <7f53924991ccee1fa568d61153a2d396@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) but i thought it was the goats who ran the standards committees ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 11:37:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 11:37:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25534 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 11:37:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25530 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 11:37:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 11:37:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C95719B26; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7958519A88; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:37:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EE8A19AF8; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16AE619A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:37:07 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 a@9srv.net wrote: >> yeah, from Tron! what a great movie... I thought it's a OS in Japan. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 11:42:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 11:42:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25736 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 11:41:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25653 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 11:39:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 11:39:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 311B819AF0; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1503C19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:39:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AF9919B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 716DF19A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:38:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oh kenji-kun, you've just given me an evil idea. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:01:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:01:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27036 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:01:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27032 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:01:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:01:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49A0519B35; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17FFD19B0D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:01:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7F6F19B2A; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FA0819B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:01:29 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > oh kenji-kun, you've just given me an evil idea. When you are younger than me, I believe it, you should not call me -kun, instead call -san. right? ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:02:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:02:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27077 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:02:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27073 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:02:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:02:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72BB319B31; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1D82199D2; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:02:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E8CC19B2A; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAF7719B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1f4f0a131a54241535f0f1d71c6035e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <86n0cre7cm.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:18 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Matthias Teege writes: > > >>> Failing that, you will have to wait for Kenji to comment on >>> the cursor problem (it's already the weekend in Japan). > >> Yes, it failed and i will wait for a comment from kenji. > > Now it works. To my surprise I got it. Where do I drop the new > sources? Does this mean, we have two different card with same ID? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:15:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:15:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27667 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:15:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27659 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:15:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:15:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9EEE19B3F; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B48AD19B38; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0C4A19B39; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A9CE19B34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2334496b99f3ccb861d6591be7697271@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:14:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i know that. guess how old i am? but it's more complicated. -kun is used with people who are 'friends'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:22:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:22:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27926 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:21:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:20:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:20:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B8D019B47; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79ECB19B34; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D9D119B34; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECEA819A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e91870a917702c3fd855245196de54b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <2334496b99f3ccb861d6591be7697271@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:20:48 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i know that. guess how old i am? I have confidence that you are younger than me from your many writings. > but it's more complicated. -kun is used with people who > are 'friends'. friends? I don't know you. ☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:25:22 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:25:22 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28038 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:25:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28007 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:23:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:23:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDF5219B48; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC48A19B3D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D589F19B39; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 336AC19B34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e59c08e63c248bfabae1a91dff9dcec@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <1e91870a917702c3fd855245196de54b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:22:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I don't know you QED From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:30:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:30:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28312 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:30:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28307 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:30:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:30:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BB5C19AA3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3D5519B34; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 813F419B38; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF12919AA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 73C113938; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A6023937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup-67.31.14.208.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.14.208]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2896.67.31.14.208.1064805819.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <026e01c385aa$84c2cf80$b9844051@insultant.net> References: <37477b39bbe70b4ef8ddcfdb150ea72e@caldo.demon.co.uk> <026e01c385aa$84c2cf80$b9844051@insultant.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:23:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> is quite a good brisk survey, with trenchant observations. > > 'tranchant' [cutting] now that's a good present participle. > > 'double tranchant' == double edged sword Yup, Like the scottish claymore. None of your wimpy M60s or whatever you carry. These are weapons for *real* men - the scourge of spammers, etc.. :-) joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 12:33:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 12:33:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28398 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 12:33:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28392 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 12:33:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 12:33:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2B3819B52; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAEC619B46; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:33:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D42019B49; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B036919B34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <023c99744feab1c9acd4105cd498c549@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: <2896.67.31.14.208.1064805819.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:32:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) effective, but no 'stand off' range. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 14:24:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 14:24:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1971 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 14:24:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1967 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 14:24:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 14:24:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ECE5519B4C; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E92019B3D; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:24:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DEFD19B3B; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9277B19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8T5J0ef004517 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:19:03 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8T5Iu2R004516 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:56 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Message-ID: <20030929071853.W27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <2896.67.31.14.208.1064805819.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> <023c99744feab1c9acd4105cd498c549@sdgm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <023c99744feab1c9acd4105cd498c549@sdgm.net>; from boyd@sdgm.net on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 11:32:09PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 11:32:09PM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > > effective, but no 'stand off' range. Real fighters are not afraid to face their enemy. Read "Dune" by (need I say it) Frank Herbert (avoid the sequels). ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 14:44:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 14:44:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3263 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 14:44:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3258 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 14:44:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 14:44:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E17A19B4F; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E943819B34; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:44:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C60519B3D; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6FD219B34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8T5d7ef004542 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:39:09 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8T5d43W004541 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:39:04 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] forget authing the senders Message-ID: <20030929073858.X27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030928203528.U27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <7c31e1e429810c8df2a896d6b7bfdbb9@sdgm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <7c31e1e429810c8df2a896d6b7bfdbb9@sdgm.net>; from boyd@sdgm.net on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 02:51:46PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:38:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 02:51:46PM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > > you don't need a reverse lookup. you never use domain name. > getpeername(2) on lunix will hand up the address -- always > use dotted quads. > Thing is, I can suppress SPAM to my own workstation, but not to my client's users, on the off chance that something important arrives unsolicited. I can't afford to reply and request confirmation, because then I've alerted the spammer that my address is in fact valid; something in the current climate I'd rather avoid (our discussion has omitted that fact, but I can see why). I _could_ demand that the DNS for the connecting exchanger be set up in both directions, preferably matched, as my mail exchanger can validate such details. But at the user level this is unacceptable: too many exchangers are _not_ set up in such a fashion and many of them are legitimate forwarders. The same with relays, but more pervasive. In case you wonder, my own exchanger (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) will reject mail from exchangers with unresolved IP addresses. I keep stats for that as well, but they are not as high, understandably, and they are not web-accessible. > anyway? where is your face? Rhetoric question? It's in the Plan 9 distribution. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 15:22:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 15:22:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5327 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 15:22:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4915 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 15:15:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 15:15:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2C4819B40; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8842319B21; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:15:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D8A519B0F; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8125F19AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3b6b67c0806b02b89afd64dcc39fe25b@sdgm.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: cross@sdgm.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bmujxfdlvhkfqbskqnzuqqhyfs" Subject: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:14:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_00_10,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME,PATCH_CONTEXT_DIFF version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bmujxfdlvhkfqbskqnzuqqhyfs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ip/httpd/httpd doesn't dynamically create web pages indexing directories the way some other httpd's can be configured to (apache is an obvious example here). This is probably to the good; it prevents people from snooping around your directory structure unnecessarily. However, it can also be annoying; for instance, if you want to expose the contents of a directory hierarchy to the world. A simple solution there is to simply write a script that creates directory listings for you, and then use it to generate static HTML pages, and create links to those. However, that's annoying because (a) you have to maintain the pages, and (b) they clutter up your namespace with things you ordinarily wouldn't have there. But nothing is stopping us from implementing a tool to do that automatically, so I did just that. Here is webls, a server in the same vein as man2html (indeed, I started with the man2html source when building webls), to be run via the /magic, er, magic, and which generates ls-like output for a directory on the fly. So far, it seems to work rather well. I've only tested it myself, I guess, and rather lightly, but it's simple enough to not be a big deal. It also has support for specifying two files, /sys/lib/webls.allowed and /sys/lib/webls.denied for restricting access to what parts of the web space it will create listings for (the two files fit together in a pretty obvious way, but the rules for them are specified in the source). In a nutshell, add lines to webls.allowed with regular expressions for what you want to be visible, and regular expressions in webls.denied for what you don't want to be visible. Webls.allowed overrides webls.denied. If webls.allowed exists and webls.denied does not, then access is only granted for filenames match regular expressions explicitly listed in webls.allowed. If webls.denied exists and not webls.allowed, then access is only denied for requests for directories explicitly listed in webls.denied. If neither exists, access is granted everywhere; the rationale here is that only things in your publically viewable web namespace are visible, anyhow.. A safe thing to do is simply, ``echo '.*' > /sys/lib/webls.denied' and then explicitly list those things you want to be listable. Anyway, a patch to /sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/mkfile follows, as well as the default `turn everything off' webls.denied and webls.c itself. This is, I think, useful enough to go in the base distribution. - Dan C. brahma% ape/diff -c /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/mkfile mkfile *** /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/mkfile Wed Nov 27 19:23:25 2002 --- mkfile Mon Sep 29 01:44:15 2003 *************** *** 10,15 **** --- 10,16 ---- man2html\ save\ wikipost\ + webls\ LIB=libhttps.a.$O brahma% --upas-bmujxfdlvhkfqbskqnzuqqhyfs Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=webls.denied Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .* --upas-bmujxfdlvhkfqbskqnzuqqhyfs Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=webls.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include #include #include #include #include #include #include "httpd.h" #include "httpsrv.h" static Hio *hout; static Hio houtb; static HConnect *connect; static int vermaj, gidwidth, uidwidth, lenwidth, devwidth; static int okfd = -1, notokfd = -1; void error(char *title, char *fmt, ...) { va_list arg; char buf[1024], *out; va_start(arg, fmt); out = vseprint(buf, buf+sizeof(buf), fmt, arg); va_end(arg); *out = 0; hprint(hout, "%s 404 %s\r\n", hversion, title); hprint(hout, "Date: %D\r\n", time(nil)); hprint(hout, "Server: Plan9\r\n"); hprint(hout, "Content-type: text/html\r\n"); hprint(hout, "\r\n"); hprint(hout, "\n"); hprint(hout, "%s\n", title); hprint(hout, "\n"); hprint(hout, "

%s

\n", title); hprint(hout, "%s\n", buf); hprint(hout, "\n"); hprint(hout, "\n"); hflush(hout); writelog(connect, "Reply: 404\nReason: %s\n", title); exits(nil); } /* * Are we actually allowed to look in here? * * Rules: * 1) If neither allowed nor denied files exist, access is granted. * 2) If allowed exists and denied does not, dir *must* be in allowed * for access to be granted, otherwise, access is denied. * 3) If denied exists and allowed does not, dir *must not* be in * denied for access to be granted, otherwise, access is enied. * 4) If both exist, okay if either (a) file is not in denied, or * (b) in denied and in allowed. Otherwise, access is denied. */ static int allowed(char *dir) { char *p, *t; Reprog *re; int okay; Resub match; Biobuf aio, dio; if (okfd < 0 && notokfd < 0) return(1); Binit(&aio, okfd, OREAD); Binit(&dio, notokfd, OREAD); okay = !(notokfd < 0); while (okay && (p = Brdstr(&dio, '\n', 0)) != nil) { t = strchr(p, '#'); if (t != nil) *t = '\0'; t = p + strlen(p); while(--t > p && isspace(*t)) *t = '\0'; if (strlen(p) == 0) { free(p); continue; } re = regcomp(p); if (re == nil) { free(p); continue; } if (regexec(re, dir, &match, 1) == 1) okay = 0; free(re); free(p); } if (okfd < 0) return(okay); while (!okay && (p = Brdstr(&aio, '\n', 0)) != nil) { t = strchr(p, '#'); if (t != nil) *t = '\0'; t = p + strlen(p); while(--t > p && isspace(*t)) *t = '\0'; if (strlen(p) == 0) { free(p); continue; } re = regcomp(p); if (re == nil) { free(p); continue; } if (regexec(re, dir, &match, 1)) okay = 1; free(re); free(p); } return(okay); } /* * Comparison routine for sorting the directory. */ static int compar(Dir *a, Dir *b) { return(strcmp(a->name, b->name)); } /* * These is for formating; how wide are variable-length * fields? */ static void maxwidths(Dir *dp, long n) { long i; char scratch[64]; for (i = 0; i < n; i++) { if (snprint(scratch, sizeof scratch, "%ud", dp[i].dev) > devwidth) devwidth = strlen(scratch); if (strlen(dp[i].uid) > uidwidth) uidwidth = strlen(dp[i].uid); if (strlen(dp[i].gid) > gidwidth) gidwidth = strlen(dp[i].gid); if (snprint(scratch, sizeof scratch, "%lld", dp[i].length) > lenwidth) lenwidth = strlen(scratch); } } /* * Do an actual directory listing. * asciitime is lifted directly out of ls. */ char * asciitime(long l) { ulong clk; static char buf[32]; char *t; clk = time(nil); t = ctime(l); /* 6 months in the past or a day in the future */ if(lCannot read directory %s: %r

\n", dir); return; } if (vermaj) { hokheaders(connect); hprint(hout, "Content-type: text/html\r\n"); hprint(hout, "\r\n"); } hprint(hout, "\n"); hprint(hout, "Index of %s\n", dir); hprint(hout, "\n"); hprint(hout, "

Index of %s

\n", dir); n = dirreadall(fd, &d); close(fd); maxwidths(d, n); qsort(d, n, sizeof(Dir), (int (*)(void *, void *))compar); hprint(hout, "
\n");
	for (i = 0; i < n; i++) {
		f = smprint("%s/%s", dir, d[i].name);
		cleanname(f);
		if (d[i].mode & DMDIR) {
			p = smprint("/magic/webls?dir=%H", f);
			free(f);
			f = p;
		}
		hprint(hout, "%M %C %*ud %-*s %-*s %*lld %s %s\n",
		    d[i].mode, d[i].type,
		    devwidth, d[i].dev,
		    uidwidth, d[i].uid,
		    gidwidth, d[i].gid,
		    lenwidth, d[i].length,
		    asciitime(d[i].mtime), f, d[i].name);
		free(f);
	}
	f = smprint("%s/..", dir);
	cleanname(f);
	hprint(hout, "\nGo to parent directory\n", f);
	free(f);
	hprint(hout, "
\n\n\n"); hflush(hout); free(d); } /* * Handle unpacking the request in the URI and * invoking the actual handler. */ static void dosearch(char *search) { if (strncmp(search, "dir=", 4) == 0){ search = hurlunesc(connect, search+4); dols(search); return; } /* * Otherwise, we've gotten an illegal request. * spit out a non-apologetic error. */ search = hurlunesc(connect, search); error("Bad directory listing request", "

Illegal formatted directory listing request:

\n" "

%H

\n", search); } void main(int argc, char **argv) { fmtinstall('H', httpfmt); fmtinstall('U', hurlfmt); fmtinstall('M', dirmodefmt); if(argc == 2){ hinit(&houtb, 1, Hwrite); hout = &houtb; dols(argv[1]); exits(nil); } close(2); connect = init(argc, argv); hout = &connect->hout; vermaj = connect->req.vermaj; if(hparseheaders(connect, HSTIMEOUT) < 0) exits("failed"); if(strcmp(connect->req.meth, "GET") != 0 && strcmp(connect->req.meth, "HEAD") != 0){ hunallowed(connect, "GET, HEAD"); exits("not allowed"); } if(connect->head.expectother || connect->head.expectcont){ hfail(connect, HExpectFail, nil); exits("failed"); } okfd = open("/sys/lib/webls.allowed", OREAD); notokfd = open("/sys/lib/webls.denied", OREAD); bind("/usr/web", "/", MREPL); if(connect->req.search != nil) dosearch(connect->req.search); else error("Bad argument", "Need a search argument"); hflush(hout); writelog(connect, "200 webls %ld %ld\n", hout->seek, hout->seek); exits(nil); } --upas-bmujxfdlvhkfqbskqnzuqqhyfs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 15:22:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 15:22:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5340 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 15:22:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4955 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 15:16:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 15:16:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A80B19B4E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 869C219AE7; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:16:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4C1819B4E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8C1D519B21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 62936 invoked by uid 66); 29 Sep 2003 06:15:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 61881 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 06:12:02 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 06:12:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 46859 invoked by uid 1001); 29 Sep 2003 06:12:02 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Shared memory graphic on cpu server References: <1f4f0a131a54241535f0f1d71c6035e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <1f4f0a131a54241535f0f1d71c6035e9@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> (okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp's message of "Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:18 +0900") Message-ID: <86smmgqg25.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:12:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp writes: > Does this mean, we have two different card with same ID? No, the ID was in /lib/vgadb but there was no support in the kernel. I copy the code from PROSAVAGEK and it works. Matthias -- Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:15:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:15:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15165 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15161 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:15:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC6FA19B53; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 244FF19B11; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 164AF19B22; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EB9019AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u6T-0005uK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F7492D1.C25B1060@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <0ab301c3837f$0acf0310$6400a8c0@dell01> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:11:25 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Frankly, that only works to a limited degree, because the problem is that communicants in whom you initially have trust are being used as proxies by the virus; whatever authentication is done will have to accept what a proxy sends you. Full authentication might allow you to build an "ignore" list when you see you have received a virus from infected hosts, but you'll end up with millions of entries in that list, after you have flagged millions of pieces of spams. Not a solution. If the authentication was really good *and* absolutely required embedding of all source identities in an irrevocable way, one could at least nail down the identity of the *originator* of a virus; but even that doesn't work since the proxy *is* the originator. The only mechanism I know of that can overcome that problem (which is much like a "man in the middle" attack) is to use "capabilities" with absolute enforcement down to the lowest levels. Even then it seems that one could always simulate the hardware and in effect create fake hosts that *originate* on some proxy host, meaning that that is as far back as you could trace them. If you try to build a "ring of trust" a la PGP, the moment there is one breakage by anyone in the ring, the whole ring becomes infected and untrustworthy. Even replacing SMTP with a new protocol for which an official rule would be, no active enclosures, doesn't work, because Microsoft would go ahead and do as they have done in the past, namely tunnel active elements into their mail readers, making their hosts proxies for viruses. Perhaps trying to solve this problem via technology is much like trying to eliminate terrorists by killing mature ones rather than indoctrinating potential ones. I.e. the root cause is social, not technical, and since a good solution would need to deal with the cause, we need to better raise our youth so they aren't inclined to engage in such activity. Of course there would still be the professional terrorist and career criminal to deal with, but they started out as youth and formed their value systems then, for the most part, so that is still where we need to concentrate attention. I frankly don't think it's going to happen, thus this problem is never going to be solved. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:16:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:16:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15189 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:16:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15185 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:16:06 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:16:06 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D6F0E19B51; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E65C719AE7; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E088419AEC; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECF2619AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u6U-0005uQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bs Message-ID: Organization: Comcast Online Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <25494.135.214.150.100.1064606399.squirrel@www.infernopark.com>, <5f54679ad3aaa0a6df1f03d4d103efd7@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@nospam.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:13:23 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) C H Forsyth wrote: >>>I dont know how to put it but if I am right, Limbo is very good but one >>>cant use it for low level programming (like GC reducing predicatable >>>timing). C can be used well for low-level programming but there are > > > ESPOL was an extended subset of the Burroughs Extended ALGOL language > that was tuned to implement systems programs such as the operating system (MCP). > (i'd hoped the MCP source code was online by now but i couldn't find it; > its use of call-by-name to wait for an event was fascinating.) > anyhow, i thought it would be not too hard to do the same for Limbo, > once i'd decided it was really a sensible idea, that is. > i did think that in practice it might boil down to just preventing > the use of expensive things and limiting it to reference counting, > which could probably be done without actually creating a true dialect. Truly the Burroughs ALGOL derivatives are excellent: NEWP(New Prog Lang) for the OS DMALGOL for Databases DCALGOL for DataComm each have extensions to suite their purpose. IIRC ESPOL was also implemented on Burroughs systems, but I cannot recall specific references. MCP sources were never available online, however, any site could have the sources to MCP, DMSII, COMS if they wanted. In fact many sites had their own communications systems (before COMS, after GEMCOS), and a lot of sites did submit patches to all the above. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:16:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:16:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15196 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15192 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:16:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F231819AEC; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D329C19AF8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9F6719AF8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D236619B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u6U-0005uc-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20030928101050.J27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:13:52 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Lucio De Re wrote: > Choate suggests legal recourse, within the existing system. Again, > harrassment could be used, I think it would work if one could target > the perpetrator rather than some innocent, unwitting victim. Not really, since perpetrators can spring up so much more quickly than the legal system can move to punish them. If you think that "setting an example" would help much, look at previous prosecution of hackers and see what a deterrent it was. > - Legacy: can't be helped, that's where the problem lies > in the first place. Indeed, if you want to leave your mailbox open to receive mail from people using other systems, you're stuck, because there is no reliable way to distinguish between legitimate mail and proxy mail. The only technical fix for that would have to be at those systems, which need to stop acting on directions received remotely. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:17:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:17:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15223 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:17:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15219 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:17:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:17:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F57719B68; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74C9A19B63; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:17:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D459819AFF; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCBA219B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u6U-0005uW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <5YacnaqnHatkiuiiXTWJkA@comcast.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6c8ef52fac9a29ff758b2e7ccbd4126f@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:13:36 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dennis Ritchie wrote: > I haven't found MCP, but ESPOL and extended ALGOL manuals > are to be found at Al Kossow's site: I may have some of the "internals" manuals (blue cover as opposed to the usual red cover) buried in my archives; they would be left over from my days at Rice in the late 1960s. Unfortunately it will be quite some time before I can look for them. If I find them I'll try to get copies to Al. By the way, I sure hope that somebody is making an archival backup of his site in case it goes away some day. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:18:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:18:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15236 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:18:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15232 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:18:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:18:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1075E19B69; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4FCD19B13; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:17:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDBBB19AE7; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0CEF19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u6T-0005uE-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Hanman Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Some questions concerning Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:11:15 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hallo, at first, I'm sorry for my broken english, but I'm still learning. I'm thinking about installing Plan 9, to have a stable and secure OS for surfing in the WWW, writting some (text-) files, learning more about C and networks and hanging up in IRC Chans (list not in order haha). 1. For whom is Plan 9? For programmers only or "normal" users, too? 2. Are there lists about hardware support? 3. How much software is avaibel? Regards, Hanno From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:19:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:19:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15276 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:19:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15272 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:19:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:19:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FBFA19B74; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8807919B65; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:19:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E170719B65; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F93619B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <974c7bec473699837161064cc732eee7@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: <20030929071853.W27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:18:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) real fighters [Sun Tsu] are smart enough to want to live to fight another day, UNLESS they are placed in 'death ground'. in that case _all bets are off_. what is the value of a dead warrior who could have tactically withdrawn to grease more of them the next time? look at the VC or the 'muj'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:23:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:23:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15604 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:23:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15597 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:23:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:23:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5312619B6F; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C8BB19B7F; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:23:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D056719B57; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44BE219B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2fadbabc43a21880950fae89333b0a07@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] forget authing the senders In-Reply-To: <20030929073858.X27821@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:22:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) build a filtering firewall. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:30:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:30:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15851 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:30:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15847 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:30:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:30:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD09A19A7A; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED9AA199B9; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E3B7199B9; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 380D819A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u79-0005vk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <029701c385b0$686b32e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:14:13 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: > that's why we don't use 2DES, 'cos there is theoretical attack where > you meet in the the middle. sure, it's costly, but the solution is to go > to 3DES. DES 'died' back in the early '90s (unless you were the NSA, > where it probably died well before that). DES was never authorized for protecting classified information (except in a true emergency). AES, however, is authorized for two levels of protection (e.g. SECRET in an unclassified environment), and since AES is much faster than 3DES it seems a much better choice. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:31:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:31:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15880 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:31:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15875 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:31:09 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:31:09 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB80619B88; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B7EB19B65; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:30:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5A4419A7A; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F1DF19AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3u79-0005ve-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:14:43 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <020001c3859e$d209f220$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:14:01 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd, rounin wrote: > in any case the courts don't really recognise a stream of, completely > forgable, bits as any form of proof: eg. al capone finally got done > for _tax evasion_, rather than hist other 'activities'. Al Capone predated the digital age. Tax evasion was within Federal jurisdiction, whereas most of his crimes were not. It is true that tax evasion was relatively easy to prove. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:34:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:34:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15948 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:34:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15944 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:34:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:34:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6BB019B79; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9FA519B82; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:34:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E91119B76; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E114A19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <3F7492D1.C25B1060@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:33:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Full authentication might allow you to build an "ignore" list when you see you have received a virus from infected hosts, but you'll end up with millions of entries in that list, after you have flagged millions of pieces of spams. Not a solution. yes, i know i want to minimise that. it has to be a scaleable solution. Perhaps trying to solve this problem via technology is much like trying to eliminate terrorists by killing mature ones rather than indoctrinating potential ones. cut the heads of their C & C and that will (either) get their attention or leave them in dissarray; snipers _always_ kill officers first, unless the REMFs get in their way or the stupid ROEs. I frankly don't think it's going to happen, thus this problem is never going to be solved. i have a 'bad feeling' you're right, but i'm not done with 'em yet. maybe i am crazy enough to beat 'em ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:35:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:35:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15976 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:35:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15972 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:35:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:35:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11A7B19B89; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2804819B92; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:35:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0598E19B84; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 472DB19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3uQL-0000gL-6G for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:34:33 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030929093433.GA2569@0xfe.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:34:33 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:01:29PM +0900, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > oh kenji-kun, you've just given me an evil idea. > > When you are younger than me, I believe it, you should not > call me -kun, instead call -san. right? ??? > > Kenji Right, Kanji-san would be more appropriate in this case. If both of you don't know the other well, then -san should be used. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:39:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:39:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16047 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:39:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16043 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:39:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:39:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F24E019B87; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 776A619B97; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:39:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8467019B82; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED7F219A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <158f9f8b44cdd84500d8e070fc5f4894@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:37:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) DES was never authorized for protecting classified information (except in a true emergency). yup. but the point is that is that if mere mortal only has DES then go for 3DES. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:41:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:41:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16147 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:41:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16142 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:41:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:41:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1406419B76; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB33919B97; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:41:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44C1F19B95; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB00119B76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <20030929093433.GA2569@0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:40:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Right, Kanji-san would be more appropriate in this case. If both of you don't know the other well, then -san should be used. so, i should stick -san on everone's name or call them Mr/Ms/Mrs/Sir/Madam ... ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 18:46:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 18:46:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16288 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 18:46:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16283 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 18:46:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 18:46:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C01BD19AC4; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512E519B61; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:46:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B93319B50; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D6D219B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:44:41 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>If you think that "setting an example" would help much, >>look at previous prosecution of hackers and see what a >>deterrent it was. clearly it didn't deter them all, but how can we know that that detection and prosecution didn't deter some, perhaps even quite a few, from attempting it? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 19:05:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 19:05:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16782 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 19:05:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16771 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 19:04:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 19:04:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E7B419B83; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A97FC19B64; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:04:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AAC8919B61; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E78B419B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3usW-0000hC-IT for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:03:40 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030929100340.GA2664@0xfe.org> References: <20030929093433.GA2569@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:03:40 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:40:51AM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > Right, Kanji-san would be more appropriate in this case. If both of > you don't know the other well, then -san should be used. > > so, i should stick -san on everone's name or call them Mr/Ms/Mrs/Sir/Madam ... ? No, but if you are going to use -kun you should use it correctly don't you think. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 19:11:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 19:11:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16938 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 19:11:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16934 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 19:11:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 19:11:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6211E19B5C; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CDE819B80; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 652AB19B61; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3CA4D199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 66453 invoked by uid 66); 29 Sep 2003 10:10:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 63046 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 10:09:18 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 10:09:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 63743 invoked by uid 1001); 29 Sep 2003 10:09:17 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some questions concerning Plan 9 References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (Hanman's message of "Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:11:15 GMT") Message-ID: <86k77rq52q.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:09:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hanman writes: > I'm thinking about installing Plan 9, to have a stable and secure OS > for surfing in the WWW, writting some (text-) files, learning more > about C and networks and hanging up in IRC Chans (list not in order > haha). For that you can use Plan9 but I dont know about IRC. > 1. For whom is Plan 9? For programmers only or "normal" users, too? Not for "normal" but for users. If you know, how to make address administration with editor, cat and grep you are welcome. > 2. Are there lists about hardware support? Yes, http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html > 3. How much software is avaibel? Enough, for your tasks you need a editor, compiler, make, debugger. You can read mail with =ABmail=BB and browse the web with infernos charon. Bis dann Matthias --=20 Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de make world not war PGP-Key auf Anfrage From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 19:12:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 19:12:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16973 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 19:12:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16969 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 19:12:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 19:12:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E0B119B80; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B0719B9E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5ADD19B66; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C98719B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e6e5d2d7207d0e84d6b102ce0dba201@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <20030929100340.GA2664@0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'm calling nobody sir et al or -san, except when i'm in bullshit business situation. liberté, égalité fraternité ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 19:21:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 19:21:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17277 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17273 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA0319B94; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5E7E19B98; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:21:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADFE819B8B; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2151619995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d97830c2b053c1dcfd66426cec76c7b@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spam Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:20:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i have _no spam_ @sgdm.net and only 8 @cs.su.oz.au (which is being used as a spam trap). that's over a 6 hour period, while i received some 100 rejected spams. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 20:08:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 20:08:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18578 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 20:08:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18574 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 20:08:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 20:08:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 018291998A; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 169B019BAD; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:08:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F62219BAA; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DA6519BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 5E6BE73CC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3vGN-0000i1-25 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:28:19 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030929102819.GA2684@0xfe.org> References: <20030929100340.GA2664@0xfe.org> <1e6e5d2d7207d0e84d6b102ce0dba201@sdgm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1e6e5d2d7207d0e84d6b102ce0dba201@sdgm.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:28:19 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 06:11:42AM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > i'm calling nobody sir et al or -san, except when i'm in bullshit business situation. > > libert??, ??galit?? fraternit?? ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it off the list and to irc.freenode.org #plan9 if you got time to kill. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 20:19:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 20:19:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18869 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 20:19:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18865 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 20:19:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 20:19:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D62419BAD; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7C6519BBA; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:19:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AB2E19B9E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A213419BAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: <20030929102819.GA2684@0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cdpbjlyoxpnsyxbuwqckjtfykh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cdpbjlyoxpnsyxbuwqckjtfykh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judging from the last few weeks, boyd's got time to kill and the weapons to do it with. --upas-cdpbjlyoxpnsyxbuwqckjtfykh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Sep 29 07:08:55 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Sep 29 07:08:53 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E3F219BB8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F2E419BA6; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F62219BAA; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wintermute.cse.psu.edu (wintermute.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DA6519BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by wintermute.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 5E6BE73CC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A3vGN-0000i1-25 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:28:19 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? Message-ID: <20030929102819.GA2684@0xfe.org> References: <20030929100340.GA2664@0xfe.org> <1e6e5d2d7207d0e84d6b102ce0dba201@sdgm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1e6e5d2d7207d0e84d6b102ce0dba201@sdgm.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:28:19 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 06:11:42AM -0400, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > i'm calling nobody sir et al or -san, except when i'm in bullshit business situation. > > libert??, ??galit?? fraternit?? ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it off the list and to irc.freenode.org #plan9 if you got time to kill. -- Vester Thacker --upas-cdpbjlyoxpnsyxbuwqckjtfykh-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 20:20:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 20:20:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18879 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 20:20:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18875 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 20:20:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 20:20:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7285E19BCA; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BAD419BC7; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:19:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC76F19BAB; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E7CD19BB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:18:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <792af7e68004b800533cad672faab871@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: Han.man@gmx.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Some questions concerning Plan 9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:54:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) You would have to also install the vita nuova Inferno emu if you want to surf the web. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 20:25:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 20:25:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19088 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 20:25:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19084 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 20:25:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 20:25:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 033ED19B00; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6511F19B54; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26A0F19B0A; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E7619AF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9fans-ego-wars? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:24:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ooo-Rah!! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 23:01:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 23:01:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22522 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 23:01:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22518 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 23:01:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 23:01:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B91119B63; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27C7919B61; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:01:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9E1A19B59; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63FD2199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 4FAC83938; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id DD6123937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1179.199.98.17.55.1064843635.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <023c99744feab1c9acd4105cd498c549@sdgm.net> References: <2896.67.31.14.208.1064805819.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> <023c99744feab1c9acd4105cd498c549@sdgm.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:53:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd@sdgm.net said: > effective, but no 'stand off' range. > that's for the bagpipe to do. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 23:04:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 23:04:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22607 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 23:04:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22602 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 23:04:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 23:04:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5861B19B9E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE83F19B7E; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:04:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDEBA19AC8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2513619B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 23:03:41 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] cpdir Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:03:35 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello 9fans. cpdir is updated to ver.1.4 -x option is added # # Usage # Usage: cpdir [-vugRm] [-l file] [-x xfile] srcdir destdir [path ...] Options and arguments: -v: verbose -u: copy owner info -g: copy group info -R: remove redundant files and directories in dstdir -m: merge -l file: A file of path list to be processed. Path list must be a path per line. -x xfile A file of path list that should not be copied. Path list must be a path per line. Rc style globe expression is allowed for the path. In the matching rule, "/" is simply a character. srcdir: source dir from which copy is made. destdir: destination dir in which copy is made. path ... : pathes in source to be processed. Function: `cpdir' makes effort to make a copy of file in srcdir to dstdir. Those that are copied are: - contents - modification time - permissions - group if possible. (under -g option) - owner if possible. (under -u option) What happens if there are files of same name in both source and destination? Let s.mtime and d.mtime be modification time of source and destination respectively. Then `cpdir' copies: - contents (if s.mtime > d.mtime) - modification time (if source.mtime > destination.mtime) - permissions (if s.mtime >= d.mtime) - group (under -g option, if s.mtime >= d.mtime) - owner if possible. (under -u option, if s.mtime >= d.mtime) With -R option, `cpdir' removes files and directories in destination that are non-existent in source. Kenji Arisawa E-mail: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp NOTE: replace "@ar." by "@" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Sep 29 23:35:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Sep 29 23:35:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23358 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Sep 2003 23:35:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23353 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 23:35:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 23:35:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B23D19B71; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BA9719B6A; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:35:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6475219B56; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8552F19A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3c1ab0e504904dc07ac110fd059e4d64@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bio bug In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tktafrtbasedbsbcdrpzaimmhd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:34:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tktafrtbasedbsbcdrpzaimmhd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, it tool me so long. Your fix is now on sources. --upas-tktafrtbasedbsbcdrpzaimmhd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Sep 17 05:14:41 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Sep 17 05:14:39 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D205319BB5; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D756199E5; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:14:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6D2719A6D; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBCE9199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 19zYJ3-0002TU-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:09:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Caerwyn Jones Message-ID: Organization: Comcast Online Subject: [9fans] bio bug Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:08:33 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The following bug in libbio occurs when seeking within the buffer: ; cat b1.c #include #include #include void main(int, char *argv[]) { Biobuf *bin; long r, n; bin = Bopen(argv[1], OREAD); n = Bseek(bin, 0, 2); Bseek(bin, n/2, 0); while((r = Bgetrune(bin)) != Beof) print("%C", r); Bseek(bin, 0, 0); while((r = Bgetrune(bin)) != Beof) print("%C", r); exits(0); } ; 8c b1.c ; 8l b1.8 ; cat t1 a b ; ./8.out t1 b b ; What I should be getting is b a b Here is the fix. ; diff /sys/src/libbio/bgetc.c bgetc.c 29a30 > bp->state = Bracteof; -Caerwyn --upas-tktafrtbasedbsbcdrpzaimmhd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 00:30:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 00:30:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24943 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 00:30:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24939 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 00:30:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 00:30:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6169819BAB; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B730019BB4; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:30:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A685A19BA3; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8BC719BAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A3zqd-0004Lz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:22:03 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F784A92.84FDE48B@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:21:51 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Charles Forsyth wrote: > but how can we know that that > detection and prosecution didn't deter > some, perhaps even quite a few, from attempting it? The problem is, it just drives the worst offenders deeper into the underground. Drug trafficking and terrorism have been targets of detection and prosecution, and overall this appears to have made those problems worse, in some ways, than they might otherwise have been. Of course that's a judgment call, and there is no way to perform the experiment to find out for sure. I would prefer to see development of a social climate in which it is so universally acknowledged that such attacks are not acceptable that ordinary people take steps to stop it when they detect it, instead of delegating the problem to government agents. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 01:06:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 01:06:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25652 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 01:06:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25648 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 01:06:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 01:06:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A061019BD4; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86B6719BC9; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:05:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B0B019BC0; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DECE519BB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <09e3a0357cd27ecc9d360dd521679f2e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qygkleanhemeczbcfubnvmllwv" Subject: [9fans] cvs patch Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:36 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qygkleanhemeczbcfubnvmllwv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The attached file allows one to use cvs with CVS_RSH=ssh. Problem: when CVS_RSH is set to 'ssh' cvs will attempt to execute a command in the following format: ssh host -l user cvs server which the ssh client on Plan 9 does not support. The patch will change the name to: ssh user@host cvs server instead, which appears to work fine. To compile just put the file as /sys/src/cvs/src/client.c and do a mk; mk install... To use with ssh (user andrey, repository in /home/cvs): % CVS_RSH=ssh % CVSROOT=:ext:andrey@somebox:/home/cvs % cvs co somethingthere ... % regards, andrey --upas-qygkleanhemeczbcfubnvmllwv Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=client.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /* JT thinks BeOS is worth the trouble. */ /* CVS client-related stuff. This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) any later version. This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. */ #ifdef HAVE_CONFIG_H #include "config.h" #endif /* HAVE_CONFIG_H */ #include #include "cvs.h" #include "getline.h" #include "edit.h" #include "buffer.h" #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT #include "md5.h" #if defined(AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT) || HAVE_KERBEROS || defined(SOCK_ERRNO) || defined(SOCK_STRERROR) # ifdef HAVE_WINSOCK_H # include # else /* No winsock.h */ # include # include # include # include # endif /* No winsock.h */ #endif /* If SOCK_ERRNO is defined, then send()/recv() and other socket calls do not set errno, but that this macro should be used to obtain an error code. This probably doesn't make sense unless NO_SOCKET_TO_FD is also defined. */ #ifndef SOCK_ERRNO #define SOCK_ERRNO errno #endif /* If SOCK_STRERROR is defined, then the error codes returned by socket operations are not known to strerror, and this macro must be used instead to convert those error codes to strings. */ #ifndef SOCK_STRERROR # define SOCK_STRERROR strerror # if STDC_HEADERS # include # endif # ifndef strerror extern char *strerror (); # endif #endif /* ! SOCK_STRERROR */ #if HAVE_KERBEROS #define CVS_PORT 1999 #include extern char *krb_realmofhost (); #ifndef HAVE_KRB_GET_ERR_TEXT #define krb_get_err_text(status) krb_err_txt[status] #endif /* HAVE_KRB_GET_ERR_TEXT */ /* Information we need if we are going to use Kerberos encryption. */ static C_Block kblock; static Key_schedule sched; #endif /* HAVE_KERBEROS */ #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI # include "xgssapi.h" /* This is needed for GSSAPI encryption. */ static gss_ctx_id_t gcontext; static int connect_to_gserver PROTO((int, struct hostent *)); #endif /* HAVE_GSSAPI */ static void add_prune_candidate PROTO((char *)); /* All the commands. */ int add PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int admin PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int checkout PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int commit PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int diff PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int history PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int import PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int cvslog PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int patch PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int release PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int cvsremove PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int rtag PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int status PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int tag PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); int update PROTO((int argc, char **argv)); /* All the response handling functions. */ static void handle_ok PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_error PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_valid_requests PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_checked_in PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_new_entry PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_checksum PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_copy_file PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_updated PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_merged PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_patched PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_rcs_diff PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_removed PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_remove_entry PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_set_static_directory PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_clear_static_directory PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_set_sticky PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_clear_sticky PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_set_checkin_prog PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_set_update_prog PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_module_expansion PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_wrapper_rcs_option PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_m PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_e PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_f PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_notified PROTO((char *, int)); static size_t try_read_from_server PROTO ((char *, size_t)); #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT /* We need to keep track of the list of directories we've sent to the server. This list, along with the current CVSROOT, will help us decide which command-line arguments to send. */ List *dirs_sent_to_server = NULL; static int is_arg_a_parent_or_listed_dir PROTO((Node *, void *)); static int is_arg_a_parent_or_listed_dir (n, d) Node *n; void *d; { char *directory = n->key; /* name of the dir sent to server */ char *this_argv_elem = (char *) d; /* this argv element */ /* Say we should send this argument if the argument matches the beginning of a directory name sent to the server. This way, the server will know to start at the top of that directory hierarchy and descend. */ if (strncmp (directory, this_argv_elem, strlen (this_argv_elem)) == 0) return 1; return 0; } static int arg_should_not_be_sent_to_server PROTO((char *)); /* Return nonzero if this argument should not be sent to the server. */ static int arg_should_not_be_sent_to_server (arg) char *arg; { /* Decide if we should send this directory name to the server. We should always send argv[i] if: 1) the list of directories sent to the server is empty (as it will be for checkout, etc.). 2) the argument is "." 3) the argument is a file in the cwd and the cwd is checked out from the current root 4) the argument lies within one of the paths in dirs_sent_to_server. */ if (list_isempty (dirs_sent_to_server)) return 0; /* always send it */ if (strcmp (arg, ".") == 0) return 0; /* always send it */ /* We should send arg if it is one of the directories sent to the server or the parent of one; this tells the server to descend the hierarchy starting at this level. */ if (isdir (arg)) { if (walklist (dirs_sent_to_server, is_arg_a_parent_or_listed_dir, arg)) return 0; /* If arg wasn't a parent, we don't know anything about it (we would have seen something related to it during the send_files phase). Don't send it. */ return 1; } /* Try to decide whether we should send arg to the server by checking the contents of the corresponding CVSADM directory. */ { char *t, *this_root; /* Calculate "dirname arg" */ for (t = arg + strlen (arg) - 1; t >= arg; t--) { if (ISDIRSEP(*t)) break; } /* Now we're either poiting to the beginning of the string, or we found a path separator. */ if (t >= arg) { /* Found a path separator. */ char c = *t; *t = '\0'; /* First, check to see if we sent this directory to the server, because it takes less time than actually opening the stuff in the CVSADM directory. */ if (walklist (dirs_sent_to_server, is_arg_a_parent_or_listed_dir, arg)) { *t = c; /* make sure to un-truncate the arg */ return 0; } /* Since we didn't find it in the list, check the CVSADM files on disk. */ this_root = Name_Root (arg, (char *) NULL); *t = c; } else { /* We're at the beginning of the string. Look at the CVSADM files in cwd. */ this_root = Name_Root ((char *) NULL, (char *) NULL); } /* Now check the value for root. */ if (this_root && current_parsed_root && (strcmp (this_root, current_parsed_root->original) != 0)) { /* Don't send this, since the CVSROOTs don't match. */ free (this_root); return 1; } free (this_root); } /* OK, let's send it. */ return 0; } #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #if defined(CLIENT_SUPPORT) || defined(SERVER_SUPPORT) /* Shared with server. */ /* * Return a malloc'd, '\0'-terminated string * corresponding to the mode in SB. */ char * #ifdef __STDC__ mode_to_string (mode_t mode) #else /* ! __STDC__ */ mode_to_string (mode) mode_t mode; #endif /* __STDC__ */ { char buf[18], u[4], g[4], o[4]; int i; i = 0; if (mode & S_IRUSR) u[i++] = 'r'; if (mode & S_IWUSR) u[i++] = 'w'; if (mode & S_IXUSR) u[i++] = 'x'; u[i] = '\0'; i = 0; if (mode & S_IRGRP) g[i++] = 'r'; if (mode & S_IWGRP) g[i++] = 'w'; if (mode & S_IXGRP) g[i++] = 'x'; g[i] = '\0'; i = 0; if (mode & S_IROTH) o[i++] = 'r'; if (mode & S_IWOTH) o[i++] = 'w'; if (mode & S_IXOTH) o[i++] = 'x'; o[i] = '\0'; sprintf(buf, "u=%s,g=%s,o=%s", u, g, o); return xstrdup(buf); } /* * Change mode of FILENAME to MODE_STRING. * Returns 0 for success or errno code. * If RESPECT_UMASK is set, then honor the umask. */ int change_mode (filename, mode_string, respect_umask) char *filename; char *mode_string; int respect_umask; { #ifdef CHMOD_BROKEN char *p; int writeable = 0; /* We can only distinguish between 1) readable 2) writeable 3) Picasso's "Blue Period" We handle the first two. */ p = mode_string; while (*p != '\0') { if ((p[0] == 'u' || p[0] == 'g' || p[0] == 'o') && p[1] == '=') { char *q = p + 2; while (*q != ',' && *q != '\0') { if (*q == 'w') writeable = 1; ++q; } } /* Skip to the next field. */ while (*p != ',' && *p != '\0') ++p; if (*p == ',') ++p; } /* xchmod honors the umask for us. In the !respect_umask case, we don't try to cope with it (probably to handle that well, the server needs to deal with modes in data structures, rather than via the modes in temporary files). */ xchmod (filename, writeable); return 0; #else /* ! CHMOD_BROKEN */ char *p; mode_t mode = 0; mode_t oumask; p = mode_string; while (*p != '\0') { if ((p[0] == 'u' || p[0] == 'g' || p[0] == 'o') && p[1] == '=') { int can_read = 0, can_write = 0, can_execute = 0; char *q = p + 2; while (*q != ',' && *q != '\0') { if (*q == 'r') can_read = 1; else if (*q == 'w') can_write = 1; else if (*q == 'x') can_execute = 1; ++q; } if (p[0] == 'u') { if (can_read) mode |= S_IRUSR; if (can_write) mode |= S_IWUSR; if (can_execute) mode |= S_IXUSR; } else if (p[0] == 'g') { if (can_read) mode |= S_IRGRP; if (can_write) mode |= S_IWGRP; if (can_execute) mode |= S_IXGRP; } else if (p[0] == 'o') { if (can_read) mode |= S_IROTH; if (can_write) mode |= S_IWOTH; if (can_execute) mode |= S_IXOTH; } } /* Skip to the next field. */ while (*p != ',' && *p != '\0') ++p; if (*p == ',') ++p; } if (respect_umask) { oumask = umask (0); (void) umask (oumask); mode &= ~oumask; } if (chmod (filename, mode) < 0) return errno; return 0; #endif /* ! CHMOD_BROKEN */ } #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT or SERVER_SUPPORT */ #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT int client_prune_dirs; static List *ignlist = (List *) NULL; /* Buffer to write to the server. */ static struct buffer *to_server; /* The stream underlying to_server, if we are using a stream. */ static FILE *to_server_fp; /* Buffer used to read from the server. */ static struct buffer *from_server; /* The stream underlying from_server, if we are using a stream. */ static FILE *from_server_fp; /* Process ID of rsh subprocess. */ static int rsh_pid = -1; /* We want to be able to log data sent between us and the server. We do it using log buffers. Each log buffer has another buffer which handles the actual I/O, and a file to log information to. This structure is the closure field of a log buffer. */ struct log_buffer { /* The underlying buffer. */ struct buffer *buf; /* The file to log information to. */ FILE *log; }; static struct buffer *log_buffer_initialize PROTO((struct buffer *, FILE *, int, void (*) (struct buffer *))); static int log_buffer_input PROTO((void *, char *, int, int, int *)); static int log_buffer_output PROTO((void *, const char *, int, int *)); static int log_buffer_flush PROTO((void *)); static int log_buffer_block PROTO((void *, int)); static int log_buffer_shutdown PROTO((void *)); /* Create a log buffer. */ static struct buffer * log_buffer_initialize (buf, fp, input, memory) struct buffer *buf; FILE *fp; int input; void (*memory) PROTO((struct buffer *)); { struct log_buffer *n; n = (struct log_buffer *) xmalloc (sizeof *n); n->buf = buf; n->log = fp; return buf_initialize (input ? log_buffer_input : NULL, input ? NULL : log_buffer_output, input ? NULL : log_buffer_flush, log_buffer_block, log_buffer_shutdown, memory, n); } /* The input function for a log buffer. */ static int log_buffer_input (closure, data, need, size, got) void *closure; char *data; int need; int size; int *got; { struct log_buffer *lb = (struct log_buffer *) closure; int status; size_t n_to_write; if (lb->buf->input == NULL) abort (); status = (*lb->buf->input) (lb->buf->closure, data, need, size, got); if (status != 0) return status; if (*got > 0) { n_to_write = *got; if (fwrite (data, 1, n_to_write, lb->log) != n_to_write) error (0, errno, "writing to log file"); } return 0; } /* The output function for a log buffer. */ static int log_buffer_output (closure, data, have, wrote) void *closure; const char *data; int have; int *wrote; { struct log_buffer *lb = (struct log_buffer *) closure; int status; size_t n_to_write; if (lb->buf->output == NULL) abort (); status = (*lb->buf->output) (lb->buf->closure, data, have, wrote); if (status != 0) return status; if (*wrote > 0) { n_to_write = *wrote; if (fwrite (data, 1, n_to_write, lb->log) != n_to_write) error (0, errno, "writing to log file"); } return 0; } /* The flush function for a log buffer. */ static int log_buffer_flush (closure) void *closure; { struct log_buffer *lb = (struct log_buffer *) closure; if (lb->buf->flush == NULL) abort (); /* We don't really have to flush the log file here, but doing it will let tail -f on the log file show what is sent to the network as it is sent. */ if (fflush (lb->log) != 0) error (0, errno, "flushing log file"); return (*lb->buf->flush) (lb->buf->closure); } /* The block function for a log buffer. */ static int log_buffer_block (closure, block) void *closure; int block; { struct log_buffer *lb = (struct log_buffer *) closure; if (block) return set_block (lb->buf); else return set_nonblock (lb->buf); } /* The shutdown function for a log buffer. */ static int log_buffer_shutdown (closure) void *closure; { struct log_buffer *lb = (struct log_buffer *) closure; int retval; retval = buf_shutdown (lb->buf); if (fclose (lb->log) < 0) error (0, errno, "closing log file"); return retval; } #ifdef NO_SOCKET_TO_FD /* Under certain circumstances, we must communicate with the server via a socket using send() and recv(). This is because under some operating systems (OS/2 and Windows 95 come to mind), a socket cannot be converted to a file descriptor -- it must be treated as a socket and nothing else. We may also need to deal with socket routine error codes differently in these cases. This is handled through the SOCK_ERRNO and SOCK_STRERROR macros. */ static int use_socket_style = 0; static int server_sock; /* These routines implement a buffer structure which uses send and recv. The buffer is always in blocking mode so we don't implement the block routine. */ /* Note that it is important that these routines always handle errors internally and never return a positive errno code, since it would in general be impossible for the caller to know in general whether any error code came from a socket routine (to decide whether to use SOCK_STRERROR or simply strerror to print an error message). */ /* We use an instance of this structure as the closure field. */ struct socket_buffer { /* The socket number. */ int socket; }; static struct buffer *socket_buffer_initialize PROTO ((int, int, void (*) (struct buffer *))); static int socket_buffer_input PROTO((void *, char *, int, int, int *)); static int socket_buffer_output PROTO((void *, const char *, int, int *)); static int socket_buffer_flush PROTO((void *)); /* Create a buffer based on a socket. */ static struct buffer * socket_buffer_initialize (socket, input, memory) int socket; int input; void (*memory) PROTO((struct buffer *)); { struct socket_buffer *n; n = (struct socket_buffer *) xmalloc (sizeof *n); n->socket = socket; return buf_initialize (input ? socket_buffer_input : NULL, input ? NULL : socket_buffer_output, input ? NULL : socket_buffer_flush, (int (*) PROTO((void *, int))) NULL, (int (*) PROTO((void *))) NULL, memory, n); } /* The buffer input function for a buffer built on a socket. */ static int socket_buffer_input (closure, data, need, size, got) void *closure; char *data; int need; int size; int *got; { struct socket_buffer *sb = (struct socket_buffer *) closure; int nbytes; /* I believe that the recv function gives us exactly the semantics we want. If there is a message, it returns immediately with whatever it could get. If there is no message, it waits until one comes in. In other words, it is not like read, which in blocking mode normally waits until all the requested data is available. */ *got = 0; do { /* Note that for certain (broken?) networking stacks, like VMS's UCX (not sure what version, problem reported with recv() in 1997), and (according to windows-NT/config.h) Windows NT 3.51, we must call recv or send with a moderately sized buffer (say, less than 200K or something), or else there may be network errors (somewhat hard to produce, e.g. WAN not LAN or some such). buf_read_data makes sure that we only recv() BUFFER_DATA_SIZE bytes at a time. */ nbytes = recv (sb->socket, data, size, 0); if (nbytes < 0) error (1, 0, "reading from server: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (nbytes == 0) { /* End of file (for example, the server has closed the connection). If we've already read something, we just tell the caller about the data, not about the end of file. If we've read nothing, we return end of file. */ if (*got == 0) return -1; else return 0; } need -= nbytes; size -= nbytes; data += nbytes; *got += nbytes; } while (need > 0); return 0; } /* The buffer output function for a buffer built on a socket. */ static int socket_buffer_output (closure, data, have, wrote) void *closure; const char *data; int have; int *wrote; { struct socket_buffer *sb = (struct socket_buffer *) closure; *wrote = have; /* See comment in socket_buffer_input regarding buffer size we pass to send and recv. */ #ifdef SEND_NEVER_PARTIAL /* If send() never will produce a partial write, then just do it. This is needed for systems where its return value is something other than the number of bytes written. */ if (send (sb->socket, data, have, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "writing to server socket: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); #else while (have > 0) { int nbytes; nbytes = send (sb->socket, data, have, 0); if (nbytes < 0) error (1, 0, "writing to server socket: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); have -= nbytes; data += nbytes; } #endif return 0; } /* The buffer flush function for a buffer built on a socket. */ /*ARGSUSED*/ static int socket_buffer_flush (closure) void *closure; { /* Nothing to do. Sockets are always flushed. */ return 0; } #endif /* NO_SOCKET_TO_FD */ /* * Read a line from the server. Result does not include the terminating \n. * * Space for the result is malloc'd and should be freed by the caller. * * Returns number of bytes read. */ static int read_line (resultp) char **resultp; { int status; char *result; int len; status = buf_flush (to_server, 1); if (status != 0) error (1, status, "writing to server"); status = buf_read_line (from_server, &result, &len); if (status != 0) { if (status == -1) error (1, 0, "end of file from server (consult above messages if any)"); else if (status == -2) error (1, 0, "out of memory"); else error (1, status, "reading from server"); } if (resultp != NULL) *resultp = result; else free (result); return len; } #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #if defined(CLIENT_SUPPORT) || defined(SERVER_SUPPORT) /* * Zero if compression isn't supported or requested; non-zero to indicate * a compression level to request from gzip. */ int gzip_level; /* * Level of compression to use when running gzip on a single file. */ int file_gzip_level; #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT or SERVER_SUPPORT */ #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT /* * The Repository for the top level of this command (not necessarily * the CVSROOT, just the current directory at the time we do it). */ static char *toplevel_repos = NULL; /* Working directory when we first started. Note: we could speed things up on some systems by using savecwd.h here instead of just always storing a name. */ char *toplevel_wd; static void handle_ok (args, len) char *args; int len; { return; } static void handle_error (args, len) char *args; int len; { int something_printed; /* * First there is a symbolic error code followed by a space, which * we ignore. */ char *p = strchr (args, ' '); if (p == NULL) { error (0, 0, "invalid data from cvs server"); return; } ++p; /* Next we print the text of the message from the server. We probably should be prefixing it with "server error" or some such, because if it is something like "Out of memory", the current behavior doesn't say which machine is out of memory. */ len -= p - args; something_printed = 0; for (; len > 0; --len) { something_printed = 1; putc (*p++, stderr); } if (something_printed) putc ('\n', stderr); } static void handle_valid_requests (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *p = args; char *q; struct request *rq; do { q = strchr (p, ' '); if (q != NULL) *q++ = '\0'; for (rq = requests; rq->name != NULL; ++rq) { if (strcmp (rq->name, p) == 0) break; } if (rq->name == NULL) /* * It is a request we have never heard of (and thus never * will want to use). So don't worry about it. */ ; else { if (rq->flags & RQ_ENABLEME) { /* * Server wants to know if we have this, to enable the * feature. */ send_to_server (rq->name, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 0); } else rq->flags |= RQ_SUPPORTED; } p = q; } while (q != NULL); for (rq = requests; rq->name != NULL; ++rq) { if ((rq->flags & RQ_SUPPORTED) || (rq->flags & RQ_ENABLEME)) continue; if (rq->flags & RQ_ESSENTIAL) error (1, 0, "request `%s' not supported by server", rq->name); } } /* This variable holds the result of Entries_Open, so that we can close Entries_Close on it when we move on to a new directory, or when we finish. */ static List *last_entries; /* * Do all the processing for PATHNAME, where pathname consists of the * repository and the filename. The parameters we pass to FUNC are: * DATA is just the DATA parameter which was passed to * call_in_directory; ENT_LIST is a pointer to an entries list (which * we manage the storage for); SHORT_PATHNAME is the pathname of the * file relative to the (overall) directory in which the command is * taking place; and FILENAME is the filename portion only of * SHORT_PATHNAME. When we call FUNC, the curent directory points to * the directory portion of SHORT_PATHNAME. */ static char *last_dir_name; static void call_in_directory (pathname, func, data) char *pathname; void (*func) PROTO((char *data, List *ent_list, char *short_pathname, char *filename)); char *data; { char *dir_name; char *filename; /* This is what we get when we hook up the directory (working directory name) from PATHNAME with the filename from REPOSNAME. For example: pathname: ccvs/src/ reposname: /u/src/master/ccvs/foo/ChangeLog short_pathname: ccvs/src/ChangeLog */ char *short_pathname; char *p; /* * Do the whole descent in parallel for the repositories, so we * know what to put in CVS/Repository files. I'm not sure the * full hair is necessary since the server does a similar * computation; I suspect that we only end up creating one * directory at a time anyway. * * Also note that we must *only* worry about this stuff when we * are creating directories; `cvs co foo/bar; cd foo/bar; cvs co * CVSROOT; cvs update' is legitimate, but in this case * foo/bar/CVSROOT/CVS/Repository is not a subdirectory of * foo/bar/CVS/Repository. */ char *reposname; char *short_repos; char *reposdirname; char *rdirp; int reposdirname_absolute; reposname = NULL; read_line (&reposname); assert (reposname != NULL); reposdirname_absolute = 0; if (strncmp (reposname, toplevel_repos, strlen (toplevel_repos)) != 0) { reposdirname_absolute = 1; short_repos = reposname; } else { short_repos = reposname + strlen (toplevel_repos) + 1; if (short_repos[-1] != '/') { reposdirname_absolute = 1; short_repos = reposname; } } reposdirname = xstrdup (short_repos); p = strrchr (reposdirname, '/'); if (p == NULL) { reposdirname = xrealloc (reposdirname, 2); reposdirname[0] = '.'; reposdirname[1] = '\0'; } else *p = '\0'; dir_name = xstrdup (pathname); p = strrchr (dir_name, '/'); if (p == NULL) { dir_name = xrealloc (dir_name, 2); dir_name[0] = '.'; dir_name[1] = '\0'; } else *p = '\0'; if (client_prune_dirs) add_prune_candidate (dir_name); filename = strrchr (short_repos, '/'); if (filename == NULL) filename = short_repos; else ++filename; short_pathname = xmalloc (strlen (pathname) + strlen (filename) + 5); strcpy (short_pathname, pathname); strcat (short_pathname, filename); if (last_dir_name == NULL || strcmp (last_dir_name, dir_name) != 0) { int newdir; if (strcmp (command_name, "export") != 0) if (last_entries) Entries_Close (last_entries); if (last_dir_name) free (last_dir_name); last_dir_name = dir_name; if (toplevel_wd == NULL) { toplevel_wd = xgetwd (); if (toplevel_wd == NULL) error (1, errno, "could not get working directory"); } if (CVS_CHDIR (toplevel_wd) < 0) error (1, errno, "could not chdir to %s", toplevel_wd); newdir = 0; /* Create the CVS directory at the top level if needed. The isdir seems like an unneeded system call, but it *does* need to be called both if the CVS_CHDIR below succeeds (e.g. "cvs co .") or if it fails (e.g. basicb-1a in testsuite). We only need to do this for the "." case, since the server takes care of forcing this directory to be created in all other cases. If we don't create CVSADM here, the call to Entries_Open below will fail. FIXME: perhaps this means that we should change our algorithm below that calls Create_Admin instead of having this code here? */ if (/* I think the reposdirname_absolute case has to do with things like "cvs update /foo/bar". In any event, the code below which tries to put toplevel_repos into CVS/Repository is almost surely unsuited to the reposdirname_absolute case. */ !reposdirname_absolute && (strcmp (dir_name, ".") == 0) && ! isdir (CVSADM)) { char *repo; char *r; newdir = 1; repo = xmalloc (strlen (toplevel_repos) + 10); strcpy (repo, toplevel_repos); r = repo + strlen (repo); if (r[-1] != '.' || r[-2] != '/') strcpy (r, "/."); Create_Admin (".", ".", repo, (char *) NULL, (char *) NULL, 0, 1, 1); free (repo); } if ( CVS_CHDIR (dir_name) < 0) { char *dir; char *dirp; if (! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "could not chdir to %s", dir_name); /* Directory does not exist, we need to create it. */ newdir = 1; /* Provided we are willing to assume that directories get created one at a time, we could simplify this a lot. Do note that one aspect still would need to walk the dir_name path: the checking for "fncmp (dir, CVSADM)". */ dir = xmalloc (strlen (dir_name) + 1); dirp = dir_name; rdirp = reposdirname; /* This algorithm makes nested directories one at a time and create CVS administration files in them. For example, we're checking out foo/bar/baz from the repository: 1) create foo, point CVS/Repository to /foo 2) .. foo/bar .. /foo/bar 3) .. foo/bar/baz .. /foo/bar/baz As you can see, we're just stepping along DIR_NAME (with DIRP) and REPOSDIRNAME (with RDIRP) respectively. We need to be careful when we are checking out a module, however, since DIR_NAME and REPOSDIRNAME are not going to be the same. Since modules will not have any slashes in their names, we should watch the output of STRCHR to decide whether or not we should use STRCHR on the RDIRP. That is, if we're down to a module name, don't keep picking apart the repository directory name. */ do { dirp = strchr (dirp, '/'); if (dirp) { strncpy (dir, dir_name, dirp - dir_name); dir[dirp - dir_name] = '\0'; /* Skip the slash. */ ++dirp; if (rdirp == NULL) /* This just means that the repository string has fewer components than the dir_name string. But that is OK (e.g. see modules3-8 in testsuite). */ ; else rdirp = strchr (rdirp, '/'); } else { /* If there are no more slashes in the dir name, we're down to the most nested directory -OR- to the name of a module. In the first case, we should be down to a DIRP that has no slashes, so it won't help/hurt to do another STRCHR call on DIRP. It will definitely hurt, however, if we're down to a module name, since a module name can point to a nested directory (that is, DIRP will still have slashes in it. Therefore, we should set it to NULL so the routine below copies the contents of REMOTEDIRNAME onto the root repository directory (does this if rdirp is set to NULL, because we used to do an extra STRCHR call here). */ rdirp = NULL; strcpy (dir, dir_name); } if (fncmp (dir, CVSADM) == 0) { error (0, 0, "cannot create a directory named %s", dir); error (0, 0, "because CVS uses \"%s\" for its own uses", CVSADM); error (1, 0, "rename the directory and try again"); } if (mkdir_if_needed (dir)) { /* It already existed, fine. Just keep going. */ } else if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) /* Don't create CVSADM directories if this is export. */ ; else { /* * Put repository in CVS/Repository. For historical * (pre-CVS/Root) reasons, this is an absolute pathname, * but what really matters is the part of it which is * relative to cvsroot. */ char *repo; char *r, *b; repo = xmalloc (strlen (reposdirname) + strlen (toplevel_repos) + 80); if (reposdirname_absolute) r = repo; else { strcpy (repo, toplevel_repos); strcat (repo, "/"); r = repo + strlen (repo); } if (rdirp) { /* See comment near start of function; the only way that the server can put the right thing in each CVS/Repository file is to create the directories one at a time. I think that the CVS server has been doing this all along. */ error (0, 0, "\ warning: server is not creating directories one at a time"); strncpy (r, reposdirname, rdirp - reposdirname); r[rdirp - reposdirname] = '\0'; } else strcpy (r, reposdirname); Create_Admin (dir, dir, repo, (char *)NULL, (char *)NULL, 0, 0, 1); free (repo); b = strrchr (dir, '/'); if (b == NULL) Subdir_Register ((List *) NULL, (char *) NULL, dir); else { *b = '\0'; Subdir_Register ((List *) NULL, dir, b + 1); *b = '/'; } } if (rdirp != NULL) { /* Skip the slash. */ ++rdirp; } } while (dirp != NULL); free (dir); /* Now it better work. */ if ( CVS_CHDIR (dir_name) < 0) error (1, errno, "could not chdir to %s", dir_name); } else if (!isdir (CVSADM)) { /* * Put repository in CVS/Repository. For historical * (pre-CVS/Root) reasons, this is an absolute pathname, * but what really matters is the part of it which is * relative to cvsroot. */ char *repo; if (reposdirname_absolute) repo = reposdirname; else { repo = xmalloc (strlen (reposdirname) + strlen (toplevel_repos) + 10); strcpy (repo, toplevel_repos); strcat (repo, "/"); strcat (repo, reposdirname); } Create_Admin (".", ".", repo, (char *)NULL, (char *)NULL, 0, 1, 1); if (repo != reposdirname) free (repo); } if (strcmp (command_name, "export") != 0) { last_entries = Entries_Open (0, dir_name); /* If this is a newly created directory, we will record all subdirectory information, so call Subdirs_Known in case there are no subdirectories. If this is not a newly created directory, it may be an old working directory from before we recorded subdirectory information in the Entries file. We force a search for all subdirectories now, to make sure our subdirectory information is up to date. If the Entries file does record subdirectory information, then this call only does list manipulation. */ if (newdir) Subdirs_Known (last_entries); else { List *dirlist; dirlist = Find_Directories ((char *) NULL, W_LOCAL, last_entries); dellist (&dirlist); } } } else free (dir_name); free (reposdirname); (*func) (data, last_entries, short_pathname, filename); free (short_pathname); free (reposname); } static void copy_a_file (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { char *newname; #ifdef USE_VMS_FILENAMES char *p; #endif read_line (&newname); #ifdef USE_VMS_FILENAMES /* Mogrify the filename so VMS is happy with it. */ for(p = newname; *p; p++) if(*p == '.' || *p == '#') *p = '_'; #endif /* cvsclient.texi has said for a long time that newname must be in the same directory. Wouldn't want a malicious or buggy server overwriting ~/.profile, /etc/passwd, or anything like that. */ if (last_component (newname) != newname) error (1, 0, "protocol error: Copy-file tried to specify directory"); if (unlink_file (newname) && !existence_error (errno)) error (0, errno, "unable to remove %s", newname); copy_file (filename, newname); free (newname); } static void handle_copy_file (args, len) char *args; int len; { call_in_directory (args, copy_a_file, (char *)NULL); } static void read_counted_file PROTO ((char *, char *)); /* Read from the server the count for the length of a file, then read the contents of that file and write them to FILENAME. FULLNAME is the name of the file for use in error messages. FIXME-someday: extend this to deal with compressed files and make update_entries use it. On error, gives a fatal error. */ static void read_counted_file (filename, fullname) char *filename; char *fullname; { char *size_string; size_t size; char *buf; /* Pointers in buf to the place to put data which will be read, and the data which needs to be written, respectively. */ char *pread; char *pwrite; /* Number of bytes left to read and number of bytes in buf waiting to be written, respectively. */ size_t nread; size_t nwrite; FILE *fp; read_line (&size_string); if (size_string[0] == 'z') error (1, 0, "\ protocol error: compressed files not supported for that operation"); /* FIXME: should be doing more error checking, probably. Like using strtoul and making sure we used up the whole line. */ size = atoi (size_string); free (size_string); /* A more sophisticated implementation would use only a limited amount of buffer space (8K perhaps), and read that much at a time. We allocate a buffer for the whole file only to make it easy to keep track what needs to be read and written. */ buf = xmalloc (size); /* FIXME-someday: caller should pass in a flag saying whether it is binary or not. I haven't carefully looked into whether CVS/Template files should use local text file conventions or not. */ fp = CVS_FOPEN (filename, "wb"); if (fp == NULL) error (1, errno, "cannot write %s", fullname); nread = size; nwrite = 0; pread = buf; pwrite = buf; while (nread > 0 || nwrite > 0) { size_t n; if (nread > 0) { n = try_read_from_server (pread, nread); nread -= n; pread += n; nwrite += n; } if (nwrite > 0) { n = fwrite (pwrite, 1, nwrite, fp); if (ferror (fp)) error (1, errno, "cannot write %s", fullname); nwrite -= n; pwrite += n; } } free (buf); if (fclose (fp) < 0) error (1, errno, "cannot close %s", fullname); } /* OK, we want to swallow the "U foo.c" response and then output it only if we can update the file. In the future we probably want some more systematic approach to parsing tagged text, but for now we keep it ad hoc. "Why," I hear you cry, "do we not just look at the Update-existing and Created responses?" That is an excellent question, and the answer is roughly conservatism/laziness--I haven't read through update.c enough to figure out the exact correspondence or lack thereof between those responses and a "U foo.c" line (note that Merged, from join_file, can be either "C foo" or "U foo" depending on the context). */ /* Nonzero if we have seen +updated and not -updated. */ static int updated_seen; /* Filename from an "fname" tagged response within +updated/-updated. */ static char *updated_fname; /* This struct is used to hold data when reading the +importmergecmd and -importmergecmd tags. We put the variables in a struct only for namespace issues. FIXME: As noted above, we need to develop a more systematic approach. */ static struct { /* Nonzero if we have seen +importmergecmd and not -importmergecmd. */ int seen; /* Number of conflicts, from a "conflicts" tagged response. */ int conflicts; /* First merge tag, from a "mergetag1" tagged response. */ char *mergetag1; /* Second merge tag, from a "mergetag2" tagged response. */ char *mergetag2; /* Repository, from a "repository" tagged response. */ char *repository; } importmergecmd; /* Nonzero if we should arrange to return with a failure exit status. */ static int failure_exit; /* * The time stamp of the last file we registered. */ static time_t last_register_time; /* * The Checksum response gives the checksum for the file transferred * over by the next Updated, Merged or Patch response. We just store * it here, and then check it in update_entries. */ static int stored_checksum_valid; static unsigned char stored_checksum[16]; static void handle_checksum (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *s; char buf[3]; int i; if (stored_checksum_valid) error (1, 0, "Checksum received before last one was used"); s = args; buf[2] = '\0'; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { char *bufend; buf[0] = *s++; buf[1] = *s++; stored_checksum[i] = (char) strtol (buf, &bufend, 16); if (bufend != buf + 2) break; } if (i < 16 || *s != '\0') error (1, 0, "Invalid Checksum response: `%s'", args); stored_checksum_valid = 1; } /* Mode that we got in a "Mode" response (malloc'd), or NULL if none. */ static char *stored_mode; static void handle_mode PROTO ((char *, int)); static void handle_mode (args, len) char *args; int len; { if (stored_mode != NULL) error (1, 0, "protocol error: duplicate Mode"); stored_mode = xstrdup (args); } /* Nonzero if time was specified in Mod-time. */ static int stored_modtime_valid; /* Time specified in Mod-time. */ static time_t stored_modtime; static void handle_mod_time PROTO ((char *, int)); static void handle_mod_time (args, len) char *args; int len; { if (stored_modtime_valid) error (0, 0, "protocol error: duplicate Mod-time"); stored_modtime = get_date (args, NULL); if (stored_modtime == (time_t) -1) error (0, 0, "protocol error: cannot parse date %s", args); else stored_modtime_valid = 1; } /* * If we receive a patch, but the patch program fails to apply it, we * want to request the original file. We keep a list of files whose * patches have failed. */ char **failed_patches; int failed_patches_count; struct update_entries_data { enum { /* * We are just getting an Entries line; the local file is * correct. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_CHECKIN, /* We are getting the file contents as well. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE, /* * We are getting a patch against the existing local file, not * an entire new file. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_PATCH, /* * We are getting an RCS change text (diff -n output) against * the existing local file, not an entire new file. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_RCS_DIFF } contents; enum { /* We are replacing an existing file. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING, /* We are creating a new file. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_NEW, /* We don't know whether it is existing or new. */ UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW } existp; /* * String to put in the timestamp field or NULL to use the timestamp * of the file. */ char *timestamp; }; /* Update the Entries line for this file. */ static void update_entries (data_arg, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data_arg; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { char *entries_line; struct update_entries_data *data = (struct update_entries_data *)data_arg; char *cp; char *user; char *vn; /* Timestamp field. Always empty according to the protocol. */ char *ts; char *options = NULL; char *tag = NULL; char *date = NULL; char *tag_or_date; char *scratch_entries = NULL; int bin; #ifdef UTIME_EXPECTS_WRITABLE int change_it_back = 0; #endif read_line (&entries_line); /* * Parse the entries line. */ scratch_entries = xstrdup (entries_line); if (scratch_entries[0] != '/') error (1, 0, "bad entries line `%s' from server", entries_line); user = scratch_entries + 1; if ((cp = strchr (user, '/')) == NULL) error (1, 0, "bad entries line `%s' from server", entries_line); *cp++ = '\0'; vn = cp; if ((cp = strchr (vn, '/')) == NULL) error (1, 0, "bad entries line `%s' from server", entries_line); *cp++ = '\0'; ts = cp; if ((cp = strchr (ts, '/')) == NULL) error (1, 0, "bad entries line `%s' from server", entries_line); *cp++ = '\0'; options = cp; if ((cp = strchr (options, '/')) == NULL) error (1, 0, "bad entries line `%s' from server", entries_line); *cp++ = '\0'; tag_or_date = cp; /* If a slash ends the tag_or_date, ignore everything after it. */ cp = strchr (tag_or_date, '/'); if (cp != NULL) *cp = '\0'; if (*tag_or_date == 'T') tag = tag_or_date + 1; else if (*tag_or_date == 'D') date = tag_or_date + 1; /* Done parsing the entries line. */ if (data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE || data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_PATCH || data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_RCS_DIFF) { char *size_string; char *mode_string; int size; char *buf; char *temp_filename; int use_gzip; int patch_failed; read_line (&mode_string); read_line (&size_string); if (size_string[0] == 'z') { use_gzip = 1; size = atoi (size_string+1); } else { use_gzip = 0; size = atoi (size_string); } free (size_string); /* Note that checking this separately from writing the file is a race condition: if the existence or lack thereof of the file changes between now and the actual calls which operate on it, we lose. However (a) there are so many cases, I'm reluctant to try to fix them all, (b) in some cases the system might not even have a system call which does the right thing, and (c) it isn't clear this needs to work. */ if (data->existp == UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING && !isfile (filename)) /* Emit a warning and update the file anyway. */ error (0, 0, "warning: %s unexpectedly disappeared", short_pathname); if (data->existp == UPDATE_ENTRIES_NEW && isfile (filename)) { /* Emit a warning and refuse to update the file; we don't want to clobber a user's file. */ size_t nread; size_t toread; /* size should be unsigned, but until we get around to fixing that, work around it. */ size_t usize; char buf[8192]; /* This error might be confusing; it isn't really clear to the user what to do about it. Keep in mind that it has several causes: (1) something/someone creates the file during the time that CVS is running, (2) the repository has two files whose names clash for the client because of case-insensitivity or similar causes, (3) a special case of this is that a file gets renamed for example from a.c to A.C. A "cvs update" on a case-insensitive client will get this error. Repeating the update takes care of the problem, but is it clear to the user what is going on and what to do about it?, (4) the client has a file which the server doesn't know about (e.g. "? foo" file), and that name clashes with a file the server does know about, (5) classify.c will print the same message for other reasons. I hope the above paragraph makes it clear that making this clearer is not a one-line fix. */ error (0, 0, "move away %s; it is in the way", short_pathname); if (updated_fname != NULL) { cvs_output ("C ", 0); cvs_output (updated_fname, 0); cvs_output ("\n", 1); } failure_exit = 1; discard_file_and_return: /* Now read and discard the file contents. */ usize = size; nread = 0; while (nread < usize) { toread = usize - nread; if (toread > sizeof buf) toread = sizeof buf; nread += try_read_from_server (buf, toread); if (nread == usize) break; } free (mode_string); free (scratch_entries); free (entries_line); /* The Mode, Mod-time, and Checksum responses should not carry over to a subsequent Created (or whatever) response, even in the error case. */ if (stored_mode != NULL) { free (stored_mode); stored_mode = NULL; } stored_modtime_valid = 0; stored_checksum_valid = 0; if (updated_fname != NULL) { free (updated_fname); updated_fname = NULL; } return; } temp_filename = xmalloc (strlen (filename) + 80); #ifdef USE_VMS_FILENAMES /* A VMS rename of "blah.dat" to "foo" to implies a destination of "foo.dat" which is unfortinate for CVS */ sprintf (temp_filename, "%s_new_", filename); #else #ifdef _POSIX_NO_TRUNC sprintf (temp_filename, ".new.%.9s", filename); #else /* _POSIX_NO_TRUNC */ sprintf (temp_filename, ".new.%s", filename); #endif /* _POSIX_NO_TRUNC */ #endif /* USE_VMS_FILENAMES */ buf = xmalloc (size); /* Some systems, like OS/2 and Windows NT, end lines with CRLF instead of just LF. Format translation is done in the C library I/O funtions. Here we tell them whether or not to convert -- if this file is marked "binary" with the RCS -kb flag, then we don't want to convert, else we do (because CVS assumes text files by default). */ if (options) bin = !(strcmp (options, "-kb")); else bin = 0; if (data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_RCS_DIFF) { /* This is an RCS change text. We just hold the change text in memory. */ if (use_gzip) error (1, 0, "server error: gzip invalid with RCS change text"); read_from_server (buf, size); } else { int fd; fd = CVS_OPEN (temp_filename, (O_WRONLY | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC | (bin ? OPEN_BINARY : 0)), 0777); if (fd < 0) { /* I can see a case for making this a fatal error; for a condition like disk full or network unreachable (for a file server), carrying on and giving an error on each file seems unnecessary. But if it is a permission problem, or some such, then it is entirely possible that future files will not have the same problem. */ error (0, errno, "cannot write %s", short_pathname); goto discard_file_and_return; } if (size > 0) { read_from_server (buf, size); if (use_gzip) { if (gunzip_and_write (fd, short_pathname, (unsigned char *) buf, size)) error (1, 0, "aborting due to compression error"); } else if (write (fd, buf, size) != size) error (1, errno, "writing %s", short_pathname); } if (close (fd) < 0) error (1, errno, "writing %s", short_pathname); } /* This is after we have read the file from the net (a change from previous versions, where the server would send us "M U foo.c" before Update-existing or whatever), but before we finish writing the file (arguably a bug). The timing affects a user who wants status info about how far we have gotten, and also affects whether "U foo.c" appears in addition to various error messages. */ if (updated_fname != NULL) { cvs_output ("U ", 0); cvs_output (updated_fname, 0); cvs_output ("\n", 1); free (updated_fname); updated_fname = 0; } patch_failed = 0; if (data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE) { rename_file (temp_filename, filename); } else if (data->contents == UPDATE_ENTRIES_PATCH) { /* You might think we could just leave Patched out of Valid-responses and not get this response. However, if memory serves, the CVS 1.9 server bases this on -u (update-patches), and there is no way for us to send -u or not based on whether the server supports "Rcs-diff". Fall back to transmitting entire files. */ patch_failed = 1; } else { char *filebuf; size_t filebufsize; size_t nread; char *patchedbuf; size_t patchedlen; /* Handle UPDATE_ENTRIES_RCS_DIFF. */ if (!isfile (filename)) error (1, 0, "patch original file %s does not exist", short_pathname); filebuf = NULL; filebufsize = 0; nread = 0; get_file (filename, short_pathname, bin ? FOPEN_BINARY_READ : "r", &filebuf, &filebufsize, &nread); /* At this point the contents of the existing file are in FILEBUF, and the length of the contents is in NREAD. The contents of the patch from the network are in BUF, and the length of the patch is in SIZE. */ if (! rcs_change_text (short_pathname, filebuf, nread, buf, size, &patchedbuf, &patchedlen)) patch_failed = 1; else { if (stored_checksum_valid) { struct cvs_MD5Context context; unsigned char checksum[16]; /* We have a checksum. Check it before writing the file out, so that we don't have to read it back in again. */ cvs_MD5Init (&context); cvs_MD5Update (&context, (unsigned char *) patchedbuf, patchedlen); cvs_MD5Final (checksum, &context); if (memcmp (checksum, stored_checksum, 16) != 0) { error (0, 0, "checksum failure after patch to %s; will refetch", short_pathname); patch_failed = 1; } stored_checksum_valid = 0; } if (! patch_failed) { FILE *e; e = open_file (temp_filename, bin ? FOPEN_BINARY_WRITE : "w"); if (fwrite (patchedbuf, 1, patchedlen, e) != patchedlen) error (1, errno, "cannot write %s", temp_filename); if (fclose (e) == EOF) error (1, errno, "cannot close %s", temp_filename); rename_file (temp_filename, filename); } free (patchedbuf); } free (filebuf); } free (temp_filename); if (stored_checksum_valid && ! patch_failed) { FILE *e; struct cvs_MD5Context context; unsigned char buf[8192]; unsigned len; unsigned char checksum[16]; /* * Compute the MD5 checksum. This will normally only be * used when receiving a patch, so we always compute it * here on the final file, rather than on the received * data. * * Note that if the file is a text file, we should read it * here using text mode, so its lines will be terminated the same * way they were transmitted. */ e = CVS_FOPEN (filename, "r"); if (e == NULL) error (1, errno, "could not open %s", short_pathname); cvs_MD5Init (&context); while ((len = fread (buf, 1, sizeof buf, e)) != 0) cvs_MD5Update (&context, buf, len); if (ferror (e)) error (1, errno, "could not read %s", short_pathname); cvs_MD5Final (checksum, &context); fclose (e); stored_checksum_valid = 0; if (memcmp (checksum, stored_checksum, 16) != 0) { if (data->contents != UPDATE_ENTRIES_PATCH) error (1, 0, "checksum failure on %s", short_pathname); error (0, 0, "checksum failure after patch to %s; will refetch", short_pathname); patch_failed = 1; } } if (patch_failed) { /* Save this file to retrieve later. */ failed_patches = (char **) xrealloc ((char *) failed_patches, ((failed_patches_count + 1) * sizeof (char *))); failed_patches[failed_patches_count] = xstrdup (short_pathname); ++failed_patches_count; stored_checksum_valid = 0; free (mode_string); free (buf); free (scratch_entries); free (entries_line); return; } { int status = change_mode (filename, mode_string, 1); if (status != 0) error (0, status, "cannot change mode of %s", short_pathname); } free (mode_string); free (buf); } if (stored_mode != NULL) { change_mode (filename, stored_mode, 1); free (stored_mode); stored_mode = NULL; } if (stored_modtime_valid) { struct utimbuf t; memset (&t, 0, sizeof (t)); /* There is probably little point in trying to preserved the actime (or is there? What about Checked-in?). */ t.modtime = t.actime = stored_modtime; #ifdef UTIME_EXPECTS_WRITABLE if (!iswritable (filename)) { xchmod (filename, 1); change_it_back = 1; } #endif /* UTIME_EXPECTS_WRITABLE */ if (utime (filename, &t) < 0) error (0, errno, "cannot set time on %s", filename); #ifdef UTIME_EXPECTS_WRITABLE if (change_it_back == 1) { xchmod (filename, 0); change_it_back = 0; } #endif /* UTIME_EXPECTS_WRITABLE */ stored_modtime_valid = 0; } /* * Process the entries line. Do this after we've written the file, * since we need the timestamp. */ if (strcmp (command_name, "export") != 0) { char *local_timestamp; char *file_timestamp; (void) time (&last_register_time); local_timestamp = data->timestamp; if (local_timestamp == NULL || ts[0] == '+') file_timestamp = time_stamp (filename); else file_timestamp = NULL; /* * These special version numbers signify that it is not up to * date. Create a dummy timestamp which will never compare * equal to the timestamp of the file. */ if (vn[0] == '\0' || vn[0] == '0' || vn[0] == '-') local_timestamp = "dummy timestamp"; else if (local_timestamp == NULL) { local_timestamp = file_timestamp; /* Checking for command_name of "commit" doesn't seem like the cleanest way to handle this, but it seem to roughly parallel what the :local: code which calls mark_up_to_date ends up amounting to. Some day, should think more about what the Checked-in response means vis-a-vis both Entries and Base and clarify cvsclient.texi accordingly. */ if (!strcmp (command_name, "commit")) mark_up_to_date (filename); } Register (ent_list, filename, vn, local_timestamp, options, tag, date, ts[0] == '+' ? file_timestamp : NULL); if (file_timestamp) free (file_timestamp); } free (scratch_entries); free (entries_line); } static void handle_checked_in (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_CHECKIN; dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_new_entry (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_CHECKIN; dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = "dummy timestamp from new-entry"; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_updated (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE; dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_created PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_created (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE; dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_NEW; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_update_existing PROTO((char *, int)); static void handle_update_existing (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE; dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_merged (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_UPDATE; /* Think this could be UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING, but just in case... */ dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = "Result of merge"; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_patched (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_PATCH; /* Think this could be UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING, but just in case... */ dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void handle_rcs_diff (args, len) char *args; int len; { struct update_entries_data dat; dat.contents = UPDATE_ENTRIES_RCS_DIFF; /* Think this could be UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING, but just in case... */ dat.existp = UPDATE_ENTRIES_EXISTING_OR_NEW; dat.timestamp = NULL; call_in_directory (args, update_entries, (char *)&dat); } static void remove_entry (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { Scratch_Entry (ent_list, filename); } static void handle_remove_entry (args, len) char *args; int len; { call_in_directory (args, remove_entry, (char *)NULL); } static void remove_entry_and_file (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { Scratch_Entry (ent_list, filename); /* Note that we don't ignore existence_error's here. The server should be sending Remove-entry rather than Removed in cases where the file does not exist. And if the user removes the file halfway through a cvs command, we should be printing an error. */ if (unlink_file (filename) < 0) error (0, errno, "unable to remove %s", short_pathname); } static void handle_removed (args, len) char *args; int len; { call_in_directory (args, remove_entry_and_file, (char *)NULL); } /* Is this the top level (directory containing CVSROOT)? */ static int is_cvsroot_level (pathname) char *pathname; { if (strcmp (toplevel_repos, current_parsed_root->directory) != 0) return 0; return strchr (pathname, '/') == NULL; } static void set_static (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { FILE *fp; fp = open_file (CVSADM_ENTSTAT, "w+"); if (fclose (fp) == EOF) error (1, errno, "cannot close %s", CVSADM_ENTSTAT); } static void handle_set_static_directory (args, len) char *args; int len; { if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) { /* Swallow the repository. */ read_line (NULL); return; } call_in_directory (args, set_static, (char *)NULL); } static void clear_static (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { if (unlink_file (CVSADM_ENTSTAT) < 0 && ! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "cannot remove file %s", CVSADM_ENTSTAT); } static void handle_clear_static_directory (pathname, len) char *pathname; int len; { if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) { /* Swallow the repository. */ read_line (NULL); return; } if (is_cvsroot_level (pathname)) { /* * Top level (directory containing CVSROOT). This seems to normally * lack a CVS directory, so don't try to create files in it. */ return; } call_in_directory (pathname, clear_static, (char *)NULL); } static void set_sticky (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { char *tagspec; FILE *f; read_line (&tagspec); /* FIXME-update-dir: error messages should include the directory. */ f = CVS_FOPEN (CVSADM_TAG, "w+"); if (f == NULL) { /* Making this non-fatal is a bit of a kludge (see dirs2 in testsuite). A better solution would be to avoid having the server tell us about a directory we shouldn't be doing anything with anyway (e.g. by handling directory addition/removal better). */ error (0, errno, "cannot open %s", CVSADM_TAG); free (tagspec); return; } if (fprintf (f, "%s\n", tagspec) < 0) error (1, errno, "writing %s", CVSADM_TAG); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (1, errno, "closing %s", CVSADM_TAG); free (tagspec); } static void handle_set_sticky (pathname, len) char *pathname; int len; { if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) { /* Swallow the repository. */ read_line (NULL); /* Swallow the tag line. */ read_line (NULL); return; } if (is_cvsroot_level (pathname)) { /* * Top level (directory containing CVSROOT). This seems to normally * lack a CVS directory, so don't try to create files in it. */ /* Swallow the repository. */ read_line (NULL); /* Swallow the tag line. */ read_line (NULL); return; } call_in_directory (pathname, set_sticky, (char *)NULL); } static void clear_sticky (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { if (unlink_file (CVSADM_TAG) < 0 && ! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "cannot remove %s", CVSADM_TAG); } static void handle_clear_sticky (pathname, len) char *pathname; int len; { if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) { /* Swallow the repository. */ read_line (NULL); return; } if (is_cvsroot_level (pathname)) { /* * Top level (directory containing CVSROOT). This seems to normally * lack a CVS directory, so don't try to create files in it. */ return; } call_in_directory (pathname, clear_sticky, (char *)NULL); } static void template PROTO ((char *, List *, char *, char *)); static void template (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { /* FIXME: should be computing second argument from CVSADM_TEMPLATE and short_pathname. */ read_counted_file (CVSADM_TEMPLATE, ""); } static void handle_template PROTO ((char *, int)); static void handle_template (pathname, len) char *pathname; int len; { call_in_directory (pathname, template, NULL); } struct save_prog { char *name; char *dir; struct save_prog *next; }; static struct save_prog *checkin_progs; static struct save_prog *update_progs; /* * Unlike some responses this doesn't include the repository. So we can't * just call call_in_directory and have the right thing happen; we save up * the requests and do them at the end. */ static void handle_set_checkin_prog (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *prog; struct save_prog *p; read_line (&prog); if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) return; p = (struct save_prog *) xmalloc (sizeof (struct save_prog)); p->next = checkin_progs; p->dir = xstrdup (args); p->name = prog; checkin_progs = p; } static void handle_set_update_prog (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *prog; struct save_prog *p; read_line (&prog); if (strcmp (command_name, "export") == 0) return; p = (struct save_prog *) xmalloc (sizeof (struct save_prog)); p->next = update_progs; p->dir = xstrdup (args); p->name = prog; update_progs = p; } static void do_deferred_progs PROTO((void)); static void do_deferred_progs () { struct save_prog *p; struct save_prog *q; char *fname; FILE *f; if (toplevel_wd != NULL) { if (CVS_CHDIR (toplevel_wd) < 0) error (1, errno, "could not chdir to %s", toplevel_wd); } for (p = checkin_progs; p != NULL; ) { fname = xmalloc (strlen (p->dir) + sizeof CVSADM_CIPROG + 10); sprintf (fname, "%s/%s", p->dir, CVSADM_CIPROG); f = open_file (fname, "w"); if (fprintf (f, "%s\n", p->name) < 0) error (1, errno, "writing %s", fname); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (1, errno, "closing %s", fname); free (p->name); free (p->dir); q = p->next; free (p); p = q; free (fname); } checkin_progs = NULL; for (p = update_progs; p != NULL; ) { fname = xmalloc (strlen (p->dir) + sizeof CVSADM_UPROG + 10); sprintf (fname, "%s/%s", p->dir, CVSADM_UPROG); f = open_file (fname, "w"); if (fprintf (f, "%s\n", p->name) < 0) error (1, errno, "writing %s", fname); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (1, errno, "closing %s", fname); free (p->name); free (p->dir); q = p->next; free (p); p = q; free (fname); } update_progs = NULL; } struct save_dir { char *dir; struct save_dir *next; }; struct save_dir *prune_candidates; static void add_prune_candidate (dir) char *dir; { struct save_dir *p; if ((dir[0] == '.' && dir[1] == '\0') || (prune_candidates != NULL && strcmp (dir, prune_candidates->dir) == 0)) return; p = (struct save_dir *) xmalloc (sizeof (struct save_dir)); p->dir = xstrdup (dir); p->next = prune_candidates; prune_candidates = p; } static void process_prune_candidates PROTO((void)); static void process_prune_candidates () { struct save_dir *p; struct save_dir *q; if (toplevel_wd != NULL) { if (CVS_CHDIR (toplevel_wd) < 0) error (1, errno, "could not chdir to %s", toplevel_wd); } for (p = prune_candidates; p != NULL; ) { if (isemptydir (p->dir, 1)) { char *b; if (unlink_file_dir (p->dir) < 0) error (0, errno, "cannot remove %s", p->dir); b = strrchr (p->dir, '/'); if (b == NULL) Subdir_Deregister ((List *) NULL, (char *) NULL, p->dir); else { *b = '\0'; Subdir_Deregister ((List *) NULL, p->dir, b + 1); } } free (p->dir); q = p->next; free (p); p = q; } prune_candidates = NULL; } /* Send a Repository line. */ static char *last_repos; static char *last_update_dir; static void send_repository PROTO((char *, char *, char *)); static void send_repository (dir, repos, update_dir) char *dir; char *repos; char *update_dir; { char *adm_name; /* FIXME: this is probably not the best place to check; I wish I * knew where in here's callers to really trap this bug. To * reproduce the bug, just do this: * * mkdir junk * cd junk * cvs -d some_repos update foo * * Poof, CVS seg faults and dies! It's because it's trying to * send a NULL string to the server but dies in send_to_server. * That string was supposed to be the repository, but it doesn't * get set because there's no CVSADM dir, and somehow it's not * getting set from the -d argument either... ? */ if (repos == NULL) { /* Lame error. I want a real fix but can't stay up to track this down right now. */ error (1, 0, "no repository"); } if (update_dir == NULL || update_dir[0] == '\0') update_dir = "."; if (last_repos != NULL && strcmp (repos, last_repos) == 0 && last_update_dir != NULL && strcmp (update_dir, last_update_dir) == 0) /* We've already sent it. */ return; if (client_prune_dirs) add_prune_candidate (update_dir); /* Add a directory name to the list of those sent to the server. */ if (update_dir && (*update_dir != '\0') && (strcmp (update_dir, ".") != 0) && (findnode (dirs_sent_to_server, update_dir) == NULL)) { Node *n; n = getnode (); n->type = NT_UNKNOWN; n->key = xstrdup (update_dir); n->data = NULL; if (addnode (dirs_sent_to_server, n)) error (1, 0, "cannot add directory %s to list", n->key); } /* 80 is large enough for any of CVSADM_*. */ adm_name = xmalloc (strlen (dir) + 80); send_to_server ("Directory ", 0); { /* Send the directory name. I know that this sort of duplicates code elsewhere, but each case seems slightly different... */ char buf[1]; char *p = update_dir; while (*p != '\0') { assert (*p != '\012'); if (ISDIRSEP (*p)) { buf[0] = '/'; send_to_server (buf, 1); } else { buf[0] = *p; send_to_server (buf, 1); } ++p; } } send_to_server ("\012", 1); send_to_server (repos, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); if (supported_request ("Static-directory")) { adm_name[0] = '\0'; if (dir[0] != '\0') { strcat (adm_name, dir); strcat (adm_name, "/"); } strcat (adm_name, CVSADM_ENTSTAT); if (isreadable (adm_name)) { send_to_server ("Static-directory\012", 0); } } if (supported_request ("Sticky")) { FILE *f; if (dir[0] == '\0') strcpy (adm_name, CVSADM_TAG); else sprintf (adm_name, "%s/%s", dir, CVSADM_TAG); f = CVS_FOPEN (adm_name, "r"); if (f == NULL) { if (! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "reading %s", adm_name); } else { char line[80]; char *nl = NULL; send_to_server ("Sticky ", 0); while (fgets (line, sizeof (line), f) != NULL) { send_to_server (line, 0); nl = strchr (line, '\n'); if (nl != NULL) break; } if (nl == NULL) send_to_server ("\012", 1); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (0, errno, "closing %s", adm_name); } } if (supported_request ("Checkin-prog")) { FILE *f; if (dir[0] == '\0') strcpy (adm_name, CVSADM_CIPROG); else sprintf (adm_name, "%s/%s", dir, CVSADM_CIPROG); f = CVS_FOPEN (adm_name, "r"); if (f == NULL) { if (! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "reading %s", adm_name); } else { char line[80]; char *nl = NULL; send_to_server ("Checkin-prog ", 0); while (fgets (line, sizeof (line), f) != NULL) { send_to_server (line, 0); nl = strchr (line, '\n'); if (nl != NULL) break; } if (nl == NULL) send_to_server ("\012", 1); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (0, errno, "closing %s", adm_name); } } if (supported_request ("Update-prog")) { FILE *f; if (dir[0] == '\0') strcpy (adm_name, CVSADM_UPROG); else sprintf (adm_name, "%s/%s", dir, CVSADM_UPROG); f = CVS_FOPEN (adm_name, "r"); if (f == NULL) { if (! existence_error (errno)) error (1, errno, "reading %s", adm_name); } else { char line[80]; char *nl = NULL; send_to_server ("Update-prog ", 0); while (fgets (line, sizeof (line), f) != NULL) { send_to_server (line, 0); nl = strchr (line, '\n'); if (nl != NULL) break; } if (nl == NULL) send_to_server ("\012", 1); if (fclose (f) == EOF) error (0, errno, "closing %s", adm_name); } } free (adm_name); if (last_repos != NULL) free (last_repos); if (last_update_dir != NULL) free (last_update_dir); last_repos = xstrdup (repos); last_update_dir = xstrdup (update_dir); } /* Send a Repository line and set toplevel_repos. */ void send_a_repository (dir, repository, update_dir) char *dir; char *repository; char *update_dir; { if (toplevel_repos == NULL && repository != NULL) { if (update_dir[0] == '\0' || (update_dir[0] == '.' && update_dir[1] == '\0')) toplevel_repos = xstrdup (repository); else { /* * Get the repository from a CVS/Repository file if update_dir * is absolute. This is not correct in general, because * the CVS/Repository file might not be the top-level one. * This is for cases like "cvs update /foo/bar" (I'm not * sure it matters what toplevel_repos we get, but it does * matter that we don't hit the "internal error" code below). */ if (update_dir[0] == '/') toplevel_repos = Name_Repository (update_dir, update_dir); else { /* * Guess the repository of that directory by looking at a * subdirectory and removing as many pathname components * as are in update_dir. I think that will always (or at * least almost always) be 1. * * So this deals with directories which have been * renamed, though it doesn't necessarily deal with * directories which have been put inside other * directories (and cvs invoked on the containing * directory). I'm not sure the latter case needs to * work. * * 21 Aug 1998: Well, Mr. Above-Comment-Writer, it * does need to work after all. When we are using the * client in a multi-cvsroot environment, it will be * fairly common that we have the above case (e.g., * cwd checked out from one repository but * subdirectory checked out from another). We can't * assume that by walking up a directory in our wd we * necessarily walk up a directory in the repository. */ /* * This gets toplevel_repos wrong for "cvs update ../foo" * but I'm not sure toplevel_repos matters in that case. */ int repository_len, update_dir_len; strip_trailing_slashes (update_dir); repository_len = strlen (repository); update_dir_len = strlen (update_dir); /* Try to remove the path components in UPDATE_DIR from REPOSITORY. If the path elements don't exist in REPOSITORY, or the removal of those path elements mean that we "step above" current_parsed_root->directory, set toplevel_repos to current_parsed_root->directory. */ if ((repository_len > update_dir_len) && (strcmp (repository + repository_len - update_dir_len, update_dir) == 0) /* TOPLEVEL_REPOS shouldn't be above current_parsed_root->directory */ && ((repository_len - update_dir_len) > strlen (current_parsed_root->directory))) { /* The repository name contains UPDATE_DIR. Set toplevel_repos to the repository name without UPDATE_DIR. */ toplevel_repos = xmalloc (repository_len - update_dir_len); /* Note that we don't copy the trailing '/'. */ strncpy (toplevel_repos, repository, repository_len - update_dir_len - 1); toplevel_repos[repository_len - update_dir_len - 1] = '\0'; } else { toplevel_repos = xstrdup (current_parsed_root->directory); } } } } send_repository (dir, repository, update_dir); } /* The "expanded" modules. */ static int modules_count; static int modules_allocated; static char **modules_vector; static void handle_module_expansion (args, len) char *args; int len; { if (modules_vector == NULL) { modules_allocated = 1; /* Small for testing */ modules_vector = (char **) xmalloc (modules_allocated * sizeof (modules_vector[0])); } else if (modules_count >= modules_allocated) { modules_allocated *= 2; modules_vector = (char **) xrealloc ((char *) modules_vector, modules_allocated * sizeof (modules_vector[0])); } modules_vector[modules_count] = xmalloc (strlen (args) + 1); strcpy (modules_vector[modules_count], args); ++modules_count; } /* Original, not "expanded" modules. */ static int module_argc; static char **module_argv; void client_expand_modules (argc, argv, local) int argc; char **argv; int local; { int errs; int i; module_argc = argc; module_argv = (char **) xmalloc ((argc + 1) * sizeof (module_argv[0])); for (i = 0; i < argc; ++i) module_argv[i] = xstrdup (argv[i]); module_argv[argc] = NULL; for (i = 0; i < argc; ++i) send_arg (argv[i]); send_a_repository ("", current_parsed_root->directory, ""); send_to_server ("expand-modules\012", 0); errs = get_server_responses (); if (last_repos != NULL) free (last_repos); last_repos = NULL; if (last_update_dir != NULL) free (last_update_dir); last_update_dir = NULL; if (errs) error (errs, 0, "cannot expand modules"); } void client_send_expansions (local, where, build_dirs) int local; char *where; int build_dirs; { int i; char *argv[1]; /* Send the original module names. The "expanded" module name might not be suitable as an argument to a co request (e.g. it might be the result of a -d argument in the modules file). It might be cleaner if we genuinely expanded module names, all the way to a local directory and repository, but that isn't the way it works now. */ send_file_names (module_argc, module_argv, 0); for (i = 0; i < modules_count; ++i) { argv[0] = where ? where : modules_vector[i]; if (isfile (argv[0])) send_files (1, argv, local, 0, build_dirs ? SEND_BUILD_DIRS : 0); } send_a_repository ("", current_parsed_root->directory, ""); } void client_nonexpanded_setup () { send_a_repository ("", current_parsed_root->directory, ""); } /* Receive a cvswrappers line from the server; it must be a line containing an RCS option (e.g., "*.exe -k 'b'"). Note that this doesn't try to handle -t/-f options (which are a whole separate issue which noone has thought much about, as far as I know). We need to know the keyword expansion mode so we know whether to read the file in text or binary mode. */ static void handle_wrapper_rcs_option (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *p; /* Enforce the notes in cvsclient.texi about how the response is not as free-form as it looks. */ p = strchr (args, ' '); if (p == NULL) goto handle_error; if (*++p != '-' || *++p != 'k' || *++p != ' ' || *++p != '\'') goto handle_error; if (strchr (p, '\'') == NULL) goto handle_error; /* Add server-side cvswrappers line to our wrapper list. */ wrap_add (args, 0); return; handle_error: error (0, errno, "protocol error: ignoring invalid wrappers %s", args); } static void handle_m (args, len) char *args; int len; { /* In the case where stdout and stderr point to the same place, fflushing stderr will make output happen in the correct order. Often stderr will be line-buffered and this won't be needed, but not always (is that true? I think the comment is probably based on being confused between default buffering between stdout and stderr. But I'm not sure). */ fflush (stderr); fwrite (args, len, sizeof (*args), stdout); putc ('\n', stdout); } static void handle_mbinary PROTO ((char *, int)); static void handle_mbinary (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *size_string; size_t size; size_t totalread; size_t nread; size_t toread; char buf[8192]; /* See comment at handle_m about (non)flush of stderr. */ /* Get the size. */ read_line (&size_string); size = atoi (size_string); free (size_string); /* OK, now get all the data. The algorithm here is that we read as much as the network wants to give us in try_read_from_server, and then we output it all, and then repeat, until we get all the data. */ totalread = 0; while (totalread < size) { toread = size - totalread; if (toread > sizeof buf) toread = sizeof buf; nread = try_read_from_server (buf, toread); cvs_output_binary (buf, nread); totalread += nread; } } static void handle_e (args, len) char *args; int len; { /* In the case where stdout and stderr point to the same place, fflushing stdout will make output happen in the correct order. */ fflush (stdout); fwrite (args, len, sizeof (*args), stderr); putc ('\n', stderr); } /*ARGSUSED*/ static void handle_f (args, len) char *args; int len; { fflush (stderr); } static void handle_mt PROTO ((char *, int)); static void handle_mt (args, len) char *args; int len; { char *p; char *tag = args; char *text; /* See comment at handle_m for more details. */ fflush (stderr); p = strchr (args, ' '); if (p == NULL) text = NULL; else { *p++ = '\0'; text = p; } switch (tag[0]) { case '+': if (strcmp (tag, "+updated") == 0) updated_seen = 1; else if (strcmp (tag, "+importmergecmd") == 0) importmergecmd.seen = 1; break; case '-': if (strcmp (tag, "-updated") == 0) updated_seen = 0; else if (strcmp (tag, "-importmergecmd") == 0) { char buf[80]; /* Now that we have gathered the information, we can output the suggested merge command. */ if (importmergecmd.conflicts == 0 || importmergecmd.mergetag1 == NULL || importmergecmd.mergetag2 == NULL || importmergecmd.repository == NULL) { error (0, 0, "invalid server: incomplete importmergecmd tags"); break; } sprintf (buf, "\n%d conflicts created by this import.\n", importmergecmd.conflicts); cvs_output (buf, 0); cvs_output ("Use the following command to help the merge:\n\n", 0); cvs_output ("\t", 1); cvs_output (program_name, 0); if (CVSroot_cmdline != NULL) { cvs_output (" -d ", 0); cvs_output (CVSroot_cmdline, 0); } cvs_output (" checkout -j", 0); cvs_output (importmergecmd.mergetag1, 0); cvs_output (" -j", 0); cvs_output (importmergecmd.mergetag2, 0); cvs_output (" ", 1); cvs_output (importmergecmd.repository, 0); cvs_output ("\n\n", 0); /* Clear the static variables so that everything is ready for any subsequent importmergecmd tag. */ importmergecmd.conflicts = 0; free (importmergecmd.mergetag1); importmergecmd.mergetag1 = NULL; free (importmergecmd.mergetag2); importmergecmd.mergetag2 = NULL; free (importmergecmd.repository); importmergecmd.repository = NULL; importmergecmd.seen = 0; } break; default: if (updated_seen) { if (strcmp (tag, "fname") == 0) { if (updated_fname != NULL) { /* Output the previous message now. This can happen if there was no Update-existing or other such response, due to the -n global option. */ cvs_output ("U ", 0); cvs_output (updated_fname, 0); cvs_output ("\n", 1); free (updated_fname); } updated_fname = xstrdup (text); } /* Swallow all other tags. Either they are extraneous or they reflect future extensions that we can safely ignore. */ } else if (importmergecmd.seen) { if (strcmp (tag, "conflicts") == 0) importmergecmd.conflicts = atoi (text); else if (strcmp (tag, "mergetag1") == 0) importmergecmd.mergetag1 = xstrdup (text); else if (strcmp (tag, "mergetag2") == 0) importmergecmd.mergetag2 = xstrdup (text); else if (strcmp (tag, "repository") == 0) importmergecmd.repository = xstrdup (text); /* Swallow all other tags. Either they are text for which we are going to print our own version when we see -importmergecmd, or they are future extensions we can safely ignore. */ } else if (strcmp (tag, "newline") == 0) printf ("\n"); else if (text != NULL) printf ("%s", text); } } #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #if defined(CLIENT_SUPPORT) || defined(SERVER_SUPPORT) /* This table must be writeable if the server code is included. */ struct response responses[] = { #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT #define RSP_LINE(n, f, t, s) {n, f, t, s} #else /* ! CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #define RSP_LINE(n, f, t, s) {n, s} #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ RSP_LINE("ok", handle_ok, response_type_ok, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("error", handle_error, response_type_error, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Valid-requests", handle_valid_requests, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Checked-in", handle_checked_in, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("New-entry", handle_new_entry, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Checksum", handle_checksum, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Copy-file", handle_copy_file, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Updated", handle_updated, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Created", handle_created, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Update-existing", handle_update_existing, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Merged", handle_merged, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Patched", handle_patched, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Rcs-diff", handle_rcs_diff, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Mode", handle_mode, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Mod-time", handle_mod_time, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Removed", handle_removed, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Remove-entry", handle_remove_entry, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Set-static-directory", handle_set_static_directory, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Clear-static-directory", handle_clear_static_directory, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Set-sticky", handle_set_sticky, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Clear-sticky", handle_clear_sticky, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Template", handle_template, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Set-checkin-prog", handle_set_checkin_prog, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Set-update-prog", handle_set_update_prog, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Notified", handle_notified, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Module-expansion", handle_module_expansion, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("Wrapper-rcsOption", handle_wrapper_rcs_option, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("M", handle_m, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("Mbinary", handle_mbinary, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("E", handle_e, response_type_normal, rs_essential), RSP_LINE("F", handle_f, response_type_normal, rs_optional), RSP_LINE("MT", handle_mt, response_type_normal, rs_optional), /* Possibly should be response_type_error. */ RSP_LINE(NULL, NULL, response_type_normal, rs_essential) #undef RSP_LINE }; #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT or SERVER_SUPPORT */ #ifdef CLIENT_SUPPORT /* * If LEN is 0, then send_to_server() computes string's length itself. * * Therefore, pass the real length when transmitting data that might * contain 0's. */ void send_to_server (str, len) char *str; size_t len; { static int nbytes; if (len == 0) len = strlen (str); buf_output (to_server, str, len); /* There is no reason not to send data to the server, so do it whenever we've accumulated enough information in the buffer to make it worth sending. */ nbytes += len; if (nbytes >= 2 * BUFFER_DATA_SIZE) { int status; status = buf_send_output (to_server); if (status != 0) error (1, status, "error writing to server"); nbytes = 0; } } /* Read up to LEN bytes from the server. Returns actual number of bytes read, which will always be at least one; blocks if there is no data available at all. Gives a fatal error on EOF or error. */ static size_t try_read_from_server (buf, len) char *buf; size_t len; { int status, nread; char *data; status = buf_read_data (from_server, len, &data, &nread); if (status != 0) { if (status == -1) error (1, 0, "end of file from server (consult above messages if any)"); else if (status == -2) error (1, 0, "out of memory"); else error (1, status, "reading from server"); } memcpy (buf, data, nread); return nread; } /* * Read LEN bytes from the server or die trying. */ void read_from_server (buf, len) char *buf; size_t len; { size_t red = 0; while (red < len) { red += try_read_from_server (buf + red, len - red); if (red == len) break; } } /* * Get some server responses and process them. Returns nonzero for * error, 0 for success. */ int get_server_responses () { struct response *rs; do { char *cmd; int len; len = read_line (&cmd); for (rs = responses; rs->name != NULL; ++rs) if (strncmp (cmd, rs->name, strlen (rs->name)) == 0) { int cmdlen = strlen (rs->name); if (cmd[cmdlen] == '\0') ; else if (cmd[cmdlen] == ' ') ++cmdlen; else /* * The first len characters match, but it's a different * response. e.g. the response is "oklahoma" but we * matched "ok". */ continue; (*rs->func) (cmd + cmdlen, len - cmdlen); break; } if (rs->name == NULL) /* It's OK to print just to the first '\0'. */ /* We might want to handle control characters and the like in some other way other than just sending them to stdout. One common reason for this error is if people use :ext: with a version of rsh which is doing CRLF translation or something, and so the client gets "ok^M" instead of "ok". Right now that will tend to print part of this error message over the other part of it. It seems like we could do better (either in general, by quoting or omitting all control characters, and/or specifically, by detecting the CRLF case and printing a specific error message). */ error (0, 0, "warning: unrecognized response `%s' from cvs server", cmd); free (cmd); } while (rs->type == response_type_normal); if (updated_fname != NULL) { /* Output the previous message now. This can happen if there was no Update-existing or other such response, due to the -n global option. */ cvs_output ("U ", 0); cvs_output (updated_fname, 0); cvs_output ("\n", 1); free (updated_fname); updated_fname = NULL; } if (rs->type == response_type_error) return 1; if (failure_exit) return 1; return 0; } /* Get the responses and then close the connection. */ int server_fd = -1; /* * Flag var; we'll set it in start_server() and not one of its * callees, such as start_rsh_server(). This means that there might * be a small window between the starting of the server and the * setting of this var, but all the code in that window shouldn't care * because it's busy checking return values to see if the server got * started successfully anyway. */ int server_started = 0; int get_responses_and_close () { int errs = get_server_responses (); int status; if (last_entries != NULL) { Entries_Close (last_entries); last_entries = NULL; } do_deferred_progs (); if (client_prune_dirs) process_prune_candidates (); /* The calls to buf_shutdown are currently only meaningful when we are using compression. First we shut down TO_SERVER. That tells the server that its input is finished. It then shuts down the buffer it is sending to us, at which point our shut down of FROM_SERVER will complete. */ status = buf_send_output (to_server); if (status != 0) error (0, status, "flushing output to server"); status = buf_shutdown (to_server); if (status != 0) error (0, status, "shutting down buffer to server"); status = buf_shutdown (from_server); if (status != 0) error (0, status, "shutting down buffer from server"); #ifdef NO_SOCKET_TO_FD if (use_socket_style) { if (shutdown (server_sock, 2) < 0) error (1, 0, "shutting down server socket: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); } else #endif /* NO_SOCKET_TO_FD */ { #if defined(HAVE_KERBEROS) || defined(AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT) if (server_fd != -1) { /* BUG: shutdown(1) doesn't FIN the connection. for now, kill it */ fclose(to_server_fp); close(fileno(from_server_fp)); to_server_fp = NULL; } else #endif #ifdef SHUTDOWN_SERVER SHUTDOWN_SERVER (fileno (to_server_fp)); #else /* ! SHUTDOWN_SERVER */ { #ifdef START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW if (pclose (to_server_fp) == EOF) #else /* ! START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW */ if (fclose (to_server_fp) == EOF) #endif /* START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW */ { error (1, errno, "closing connection to %s", current_parsed_root->hostname); } } if (! buf_empty_p (from_server) /* || getc (from_server_fp) != EOF */) error (0, 0, "dying gasps from %s unexpected", current_parsed_root->hostname); else if (ferror (from_server_fp)) error (0, errno, "reading from %s", current_parsed_root->hostname); fclose (from_server_fp); #endif /* SHUTDOWN_SERVER */ } if (rsh_pid != -1 && waitpid (rsh_pid, (int *) 0, 0) == -1) error (1, errno, "waiting for process %d", rsh_pid); buf_free (to_server); buf_free (from_server); server_started = 0; /* see if we need to sleep before returning to avoid time-stamp races */ if (last_register_time) { sleep_past (last_register_time); } return errs; } #ifndef NO_EXT_METHOD static void start_rsh_server PROTO((int *, int *)); #endif int supported_request (name) char *name; { struct request *rq; for (rq = requests; rq->name; rq++) if (!strcmp (rq->name, name)) return (rq->flags & RQ_SUPPORTED) != 0; error (1, 0, "internal error: testing support for unknown option?"); /* NOTREACHED */ return 0; } #if defined (AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT) || defined (HAVE_KERBEROS) static struct hostent *init_sockaddr PROTO ((struct sockaddr_in *, char *, unsigned int)); static struct hostent * init_sockaddr (name, hostname, port) struct sockaddr_in *name; char *hostname; unsigned int port; { struct hostent *hostinfo; unsigned short shortport = port; memset (name, 0, sizeof (*name)); name->sin_family = AF_INET; name->sin_port = htons (shortport); hostinfo = gethostbyname (hostname); if (hostinfo == NULL) { fprintf (stderr, "Unknown host %s.\n", hostname); error_exit (); } name->sin_addr = *(struct in_addr *) hostinfo->h_addr; return hostinfo; } #endif /* defined (AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT) || defined (HAVE_KERBEROS) */ #ifdef AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT /* Generic function to do port number lookup tasks. * * In order of precedence, will return: * getenv (envname), if defined * getservbyname (portname), if defined * defaultport */ static int get_port_number (envname, portname, defaultport) const char *envname; const char *portname; int defaultport; { struct servent *s; char *port_s; if (envname && (port_s = getenv (envname))) { int port = atoi (port_s); if (port <= 0) { error (0, 0, "%s must be a positive integer! If you", envname); error (0, 0, "are trying to force a connection via rsh, please"); error (0, 0, "put \":server:\" at the beginning of your CVSROOT"); error (1, 0, "variable."); } return port; } else if (portname && (s = getservbyname (portname, "tcp"))) return ntohs (s->s_port); else return defaultport; } /* get the port number for a client to connect to based on the port * and method of a cvsroot_t. * * we do this here instead of in parse_cvsroot so that we can keep network * code confined to a localized area and also to delay the lookup until the * last possible moment so it remains possible to run cvs client commands that * skip opening connections to the server (i.e. skip network operations entirely) * * and yes, I know none of the the commands do that now, but here's to planning * for the future, eh? cheers. * * FIXME - We could cache the port lookup safely right now as we never change * it for a single root on the fly, but we'd have to un'const some other * functions */ int get_cvs_port_number (root) const cvsroot_t *root; { if (root->port) return root->port; switch (root->method) { case gserver_method: case pserver_method: return get_port_number ("CVS_CLIENT_PORT", "cvspserver", CVS_AUTH_PORT); #ifdef HAVE_KERBEROS case kserver_method: return get_port_number ("CVS_CLIENT_PORT", "cvs", CVS_PORT); #endif default: error(1, EINVAL, "internal error: get_cvs_port_number called for invalid connection method (%s)", method_names[root->method]); break; } } /* Read a line from socket SOCK. Result does not include the terminating linefeed. This is only used by the authentication protocol, which we call before we set up all the buffering stuff. It is possible it should use the buffers too, which would be faster (unlike the server, there isn't really a security issue in terms of separating authentication from the rest of the code). Space for the result is malloc'd and should be freed by the caller. Returns number of bytes read. */ static int recv_line (sock, resultp) int sock; char **resultp; { char *result; size_t input_index = 0; size_t result_size = 80; result = (char *) xmalloc (result_size); while (1) { char ch; int n; n = recv (sock, &ch, 1, 0); if (n <= 0) error (1, 0, "recv() from server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, n == 0 ? "EOF" : SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (ch == '\012') break; result[input_index++] = ch; while (input_index + 1 >= result_size) { result_size *= 2; result = (char *) xrealloc (result, result_size); } } if (resultp) *resultp = result; /* Terminate it just for kicks, but we *can* deal with embedded NULs. */ result[input_index] = '\0'; if (resultp == NULL) free (result); return input_index; } /* Connect to a forked server process. */ void connect_to_forked_server (tofdp, fromfdp) int *tofdp, *fromfdp; { /* This is pretty simple. All we need to do is choose the correct cvs binary and call piped_child. */ char *command[3]; command[0] = getenv ("CVS_SERVER"); if (! command[0]) command[0] = program_path; command[1] = "server"; command[2] = NULL; if (trace) { fprintf (stderr, " -> Forking server: %s %s\n", command[0], command[1]); } if (! piped_child (command, tofdp, fromfdp)) error (1, 0, "could not fork server process"); } /* Connect to the authenticating server. If VERIFY_ONLY is non-zero, then just verify that the password is correct and then shutdown the connection. If VERIFY_ONLY is 0, then really connect to the server. If DO_GSSAPI is non-zero, then we use GSSAPI authentication rather than the pserver password authentication. If we fail to connect or if access is denied, then die with fatal error. */ void connect_to_pserver (tofdp, fromfdp, verify_only, do_gssapi) int *tofdp, *fromfdp; int verify_only; int do_gssapi; { int sock; #ifndef NO_SOCKET_TO_FD int tofd, fromfd; #endif int port_number; char *username; /* the username we use to connect */ struct sockaddr_in client_sai; struct hostent *hostinfo; char no_passwd = 0; /* gets set if no password found */ sock = socket (AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (sock == -1) { error (1, 0, "cannot create socket: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); } port_number = get_cvs_port_number (current_parsed_root); hostinfo = init_sockaddr (&client_sai, current_parsed_root->hostname, port_number); if (trace) { fprintf (stderr, " -> Connecting to %s(%s):%d\n", current_parsed_root->hostname, inet_ntoa (client_sai.sin_addr), port_number); } if (connect (sock, (struct sockaddr *) &client_sai, sizeof (client_sai)) < 0) error (1, 0, "connect to %s(%s):%d failed: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, inet_ntoa (client_sai.sin_addr), port_number, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); /* Run the authorization mini-protocol before anything else. */ if (do_gssapi) { #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI if (! connect_to_gserver (sock, hostinfo)) { error (0, 0, "authorization failed: server %s rejected access to %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, current_parsed_root->directory); goto rejected; } #else error (1, 0, "This client does not support GSSAPI authentication"); #endif } else { char *begin = NULL; char *password = NULL; char *end = NULL; if (verify_only) { begin = "BEGIN VERIFICATION REQUEST\012"; end = "END VERIFICATION REQUEST\012"; } else { begin = "BEGIN AUTH REQUEST\012"; end = "END AUTH REQUEST\012"; } /* Get the password, probably from ~/.cvspass. */ password = get_cvs_password (); username = current_parsed_root->username ? current_parsed_root->username : getcaller(); /* Send the empty string by default. This is so anonymous CVS access doesn't require client to have done "cvs login". */ if (password == NULL) { no_passwd = 1; password = scramble (""); } /* Announce that we're starting the authorization protocol. */ if (send (sock, begin, strlen (begin), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); /* Send the data the server needs. */ if (send (sock, current_parsed_root->directory, strlen (current_parsed_root->directory), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, "\012", 1, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, username, strlen (username), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, "\012", 1, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, password, strlen (password), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, "\012", 1, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); /* Announce that we're ending the authorization protocol. */ if (send (sock, end, strlen (end), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); /* Paranoia. */ memset (password, 0, strlen (password)); } { char *read_buf; /* Loop, getting responses from the server. */ while (1) { recv_line (sock, &read_buf); if (strcmp (read_buf, "I HATE YOU") == 0) { /* Authorization not granted. * * This is a little confusing since we can reach this while loop in GSSAPI * mode, but if GSSAPI authentication failed, we already jumped to the * rejected label (there is no case where the connect_to_gserver function * can return 1 and we will not receive "I LOVE YOU" from the server, barring * broken connections and garbled messages, of course). * * i.e. This is a pserver specific error message and shoiuld be since * GSSAPI doesn't use username. */ error (0, 0, "authorization failed: server %s rejected access to %s for user %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, current_parsed_root->directory, username); /* Output a special error message if authentication was attempted with no password -- the user should be made aware that they may have missed a step. */ if (no_passwd) { error (0, 0, "used empty password; try \"cvs login\" with a real password"); } goto rejected; } else if (strncmp (read_buf, "E ", 2) == 0) { fprintf (stderr, "%s\n", read_buf + 2); /* Continue with the authentication protocol. */ } else if (strncmp (read_buf, "error ", 6) == 0) { char *p; /* First skip the code. */ p = read_buf + 6; while (*p != ' ' && *p != '\0') ++p; /* Skip the space that follows the code. */ if (*p == ' ') ++p; /* Now output the text. */ fprintf (stderr, "%s\n", p); goto rejected; } else if (strcmp (read_buf, "I LOVE YOU") == 0) { free (read_buf); break; } else { /* Unrecognized response from server. */ if (shutdown (sock, 2) < 0) { error (0, 0, "unrecognized auth response from %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, read_buf); error (1, 0, "shutdown() failed, server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); } error (1, 0, "unrecognized auth response from %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, read_buf); } free (read_buf); } } if (verify_only) { if (shutdown (sock, 2) < 0) error (0, 0, "shutdown() failed, server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); return; } else { #ifdef NO_SOCKET_TO_FD use_socket_style = 1; server_sock = sock; /* Try to break mistaken callers: */ *tofdp = 0; *fromfdp = 0; #else /* ! NO_SOCKET_TO_FD */ server_fd = sock; close_on_exec (server_fd); tofd = fromfd = sock; /* Hand them back to the caller. */ *tofdp = tofd; *fromfdp = fromfd; #endif /* NO_SOCKET_TO_FD */ } return; rejected: if (shutdown (sock, 2) < 0) { error (0, 0, "shutdown() failed (server %s): %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); } error_exit(); } #endif /* AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT */ #ifdef HAVE_KERBEROS /* This function has not been changed to deal with NO_SOCKET_TO_FD (i.e., systems on which sockets cannot be converted to file descriptors). The first person to try building a kerberos client on such a system (OS/2, Windows 95, and maybe others) will have to make take care of this. */ void start_tcp_server (tofdp, fromfdp) int *tofdp, *fromfdp; { int s; const char *portenv; int port; struct hostent *hp; struct sockaddr_in sin; char *hname; s = socket (AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (s < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot create socket: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); port = get_cvs_port_number (current_parsed_root); hp = init_sockaddr (&sin, current_parsed_root->hostname, port); hname = xmalloc (strlen (hp->h_name) + 1); strcpy (hname, hp->h_name); if (trace) { fprintf (stderr, " -> Connecting to %s(%s):%d\n", current_parsed_root->hostname, inet_ntoa (client_sai.sin_addr), port); } if (connect (s, (struct sockaddr *) &sin, sizeof sin) < 0) error (1, 0, "connect to %s(%s):%d failed: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, inet_ntoa (client_sai.sin_addr), port, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); { const char *realm; struct sockaddr_in laddr; int laddrlen; KTEXT_ST ticket; MSG_DAT msg_data; CREDENTIALS cred; int status; realm = krb_realmofhost (hname); laddrlen = sizeof (laddr); if (getsockname (s, (struct sockaddr *) &laddr, &laddrlen) < 0) error (1, 0, "getsockname failed: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); /* We don't care about the checksum, and pass it as zero. */ status = krb_sendauth (KOPT_DO_MUTUAL, s, &ticket, "rcmd", hname, realm, (unsigned long) 0, &msg_data, &cred, sched, &laddr, &sin, "KCVSV1.0"); if (status != KSUCCESS) error (1, 0, "kerberos authentication failed: %s", krb_get_err_text (status)); memcpy (kblock, cred.session, sizeof (C_Block)); } server_fd = s; close_on_exec (server_fd); free (hname); /* Give caller the values it wants. */ *tofdp = s; *fromfdp = s; } #endif /* HAVE_KERBEROS */ #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI /* Receive a given number of bytes. */ static void recv_bytes (sock, buf, need) int sock; char *buf; int need; { while (need > 0) { int got; got = recv (sock, buf, need, 0); if (got <= 0) error (1, 0, "recv() from server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, got == 0 ? "EOF" : SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); buf += got; need -= got; } } /* Connect to the server using GSSAPI authentication. */ static int connect_to_gserver (sock, hostinfo) int sock; struct hostent *hostinfo; { char *str; char buf[1024]; gss_buffer_desc *tok_in_ptr, tok_in, tok_out; OM_uint32 stat_min, stat_maj; gss_name_t server_name; str = "BEGIN GSSAPI REQUEST\012"; if (send (sock, str, strlen (str), 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); sprintf (buf, "cvs@%s", hostinfo->h_name); tok_in.length = strlen (buf); tok_in.value = buf; gss_import_name (&stat_min, &tok_in, GSS_C_NT_HOSTBASED_SERVICE, &server_name); tok_in_ptr = GSS_C_NO_BUFFER; gcontext = GSS_C_NO_CONTEXT; do { stat_maj = gss_init_sec_context (&stat_min, GSS_C_NO_CREDENTIAL, &gcontext, server_name, GSS_C_NULL_OID, (GSS_C_MUTUAL_FLAG | GSS_C_REPLAY_FLAG), 0, NULL, tok_in_ptr, NULL, &tok_out, NULL, NULL); if (stat_maj != GSS_S_COMPLETE && stat_maj != GSS_S_CONTINUE_NEEDED) { OM_uint32 message_context; OM_uint32 new_stat_min; message_context = 0; gss_display_status (&new_stat_min, stat_maj, GSS_C_GSS_CODE, GSS_C_NULL_OID, &message_context, &tok_out); error (0, 0, "GSSAPI authentication failed: %s", (char *) tok_out.value); message_context = 0; gss_display_status (&new_stat_min, stat_min, GSS_C_MECH_CODE, GSS_C_NULL_OID, &message_context, &tok_out); error (1, 0, "GSSAPI authentication failed: %s", (char *) tok_out.value); } if (tok_out.length == 0) { tok_in.length = 0; } else { char cbuf[2]; int need; cbuf[0] = (tok_out.length >> 8) & 0xff; cbuf[1] = tok_out.length & 0xff; if (send (sock, cbuf, 2, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); if (send (sock, tok_out.value, tok_out.length, 0) < 0) error (1, 0, "cannot send: %s", SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); recv_bytes (sock, cbuf, 2); need = ((cbuf[0] & 0xff) << 8) | (cbuf[1] & 0xff); if (need > sizeof buf) { int got; /* This usually means that the server sent us an error message. Read it byte by byte and print it out. FIXME: This is a terrible error handling strategy. However, even if we fix the server, we will still want to do this to work with older servers. */ buf[0] = cbuf[0]; buf[1] = cbuf[1]; got = recv (sock, buf + 2, sizeof buf - 2, 0); if (got < 0) error (1, 0, "recv() from server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, SOCK_STRERROR (SOCK_ERRNO)); buf[got + 2] = '\0'; if (buf[got + 1] == '\n') buf[got + 1] = '\0'; error (1, 0, "error from server %s: %s", current_parsed_root->hostname, buf); } recv_bytes (sock, buf, need); tok_in.length = need; } tok_in.value = buf; tok_in_ptr = &tok_in; } while (stat_maj == GSS_S_CONTINUE_NEEDED); return 1; } #endif /* HAVE_GSSAPI */ static int send_variable_proc PROTO ((Node *, void *)); static int send_variable_proc (node, closure) Node *node; void *closure; { send_to_server ("Set ", 0); send_to_server (node->key, 0); send_to_server ("=", 1); send_to_server (node->data, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); return 0; } /* Contact the server. */ void start_server () { int tofd, fromfd, rootless; char *log = getenv ("CVS_CLIENT_LOG"); /* Clear our static variables for this invocation. */ if (toplevel_repos != NULL) free (toplevel_repos); toplevel_repos = NULL; /* Note that generally speaking we do *not* fall back to a different way of connecting if the first one does not work. This is slow (*really* slow on a 14.4kbps link); the clean way to have a CVS which supports several ways of connecting is with access methods. */ switch (current_parsed_root->method) { #ifdef AUTH_CLIENT_SUPPORT case pserver_method: /* Toss the return value. It will die with error if anything goes wrong anyway. */ connect_to_pserver (&tofd, &fromfd, 0, 0); break; #endif #if HAVE_KERBEROS case kserver_method: start_tcp_server (&tofd, &fromfd); break; #endif #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI case gserver_method: /* GSSAPI authentication is handled by the pserver. */ connect_to_pserver (&tofd, &fromfd, 0, 1); break; #endif case ext_method: #if defined (NO_EXT_METHOD) error (0, 0, ":ext: method not supported by this port of CVS"); error (1, 0, "try :server: instead"); #else start_rsh_server (&tofd, &fromfd); #endif break; case server_method: #if defined(START_SERVER) START_SERVER (&tofd, &fromfd, getcaller (), current_parsed_root->username, current_parsed_root->hostname, current_parsed_root->directory); # if defined (START_SERVER_RETURNS_SOCKET) && defined (NO_SOCKET_TO_FD) /* This is a system on which we can only write to a socket using send/recv. Therefore its START_SERVER needs to return a socket. */ use_socket_style = 1; server_sock = tofd; # endif #else /* FIXME: It should be possible to implement this portably, like pserver, which would get rid of the duplicated code in {vms,windows-NT,...}/startserver.c. */ error (1, 0, "\ the :server: access method is not supported by this port of CVS"); #endif break; case fork_method: connect_to_forked_server (&tofd, &fromfd); break; default: error (1, 0, "\ (start_server internal error): unknown access method"); break; } /* "Hi, I'm Darlene and I'll be your server tonight..." */ server_started = 1; #ifdef NO_SOCKET_TO_FD if (use_socket_style) { to_server = socket_buffer_initialize (server_sock, 0, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); from_server = socket_buffer_initialize (server_sock, 1, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); } else #endif /* NO_SOCKET_TO_FD */ { /* todo: some OS's don't need these calls... */ close_on_exec (tofd); close_on_exec (fromfd); /* SCO 3 and AIX have a nasty bug in the I/O libraries which precludes fdopening the same file descriptor twice, so dup it if it is the same. */ if (tofd == fromfd) { fromfd = dup (tofd); if (fromfd < 0) error (1, errno, "cannot dup net connection"); } /* These will use binary mode on systems which have it. */ to_server_fp = fdopen (tofd, FOPEN_BINARY_WRITE); if (to_server_fp == NULL) error (1, errno, "cannot fdopen %d for write", tofd); to_server = stdio_buffer_initialize (to_server_fp, 0, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); from_server_fp = fdopen (fromfd, FOPEN_BINARY_READ); if (from_server_fp == NULL) error (1, errno, "cannot fdopen %d for read", fromfd); from_server = stdio_buffer_initialize (from_server_fp, 1, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); } /* Set up logfiles, if any. */ if (log) { int len = strlen (log); char *buf = xmalloc (len + 5); char *p; FILE *fp; strcpy (buf, log); p = buf + len; /* Open logfiles in binary mode so that they reflect exactly what was transmitted and received (that is more important than that they be maximally convenient to view). */ /* Note that if we create several connections in a single CVS client (currently used by update.c), then the last set of logfiles will overwrite the others. There is currently no way around this. */ strcpy (p, ".in"); fp = open_file (buf, "wb"); if (fp == NULL) error (0, errno, "opening to-server logfile %s", buf); else to_server = log_buffer_initialize (to_server, fp, 0, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); strcpy (p, ".out"); fp = open_file (buf, "wb"); if (fp == NULL) error (0, errno, "opening from-server logfile %s", buf); else from_server = log_buffer_initialize (from_server, fp, 1, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); free (buf); } /* Clear static variables. */ if (toplevel_repos != NULL) free (toplevel_repos); toplevel_repos = NULL; if (last_dir_name != NULL) free (last_dir_name); last_dir_name = NULL; if (last_repos != NULL) free (last_repos); last_repos = NULL; if (last_update_dir != NULL) free (last_update_dir); last_update_dir = NULL; stored_checksum_valid = 0; if (stored_mode != NULL) { free (stored_mode); stored_mode = NULL; } rootless = (strcmp (command_name, "init") == 0); if (!rootless) { send_to_server ("Root ", 0); send_to_server (current_parsed_root->directory, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } { struct response *rs; send_to_server ("Valid-responses", 0); for (rs = responses; rs->name != NULL; ++rs) { send_to_server (" ", 0); send_to_server (rs->name, 0); } send_to_server ("\012", 1); } send_to_server ("valid-requests\012", 0); if (get_server_responses ()) error_exit (); /* * Now handle global options. * * -H, -f, -d, -e should be handled OK locally. * * -b we ignore (treating it as a server installation issue). * FIXME: should be an error message. * * -v we print local version info; FIXME: Add a protocol request to get * the version from the server so we can print that too. * * -l -t -r -w -q -n and -Q need to go to the server. */ { int have_global = supported_request ("Global_option"); if (noexec) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -n\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -n option."); } if (quiet) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -q\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -q option."); } if (really_quiet) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -Q\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -Q option."); } if (!cvswrite) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -r\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -r option."); } if (trace) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -t\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -t option."); } if (logoff) { if (have_global) { send_to_server ("Global_option -l\012", 0); } else error (1, 0, "This server does not support the global -l option."); } } /* Find out about server-side cvswrappers. An extra network turnaround for cvs import seems to be unavoidable, unless we want to add some kind of client-side place to configure which filenames imply binary. For cvs add, we could avoid the problem by keeping a copy of the wrappers in CVSADM (the main reason to bother would be so we could make add work without contacting the server, I suspect). */ if ((strcmp (command_name, "import") == 0) || (strcmp (command_name, "add") == 0)) { if (supported_request ("wrapper-sendme-rcsOptions")) { int err; send_to_server ("wrapper-sendme-rcsOptions\012", 0); err = get_server_responses (); if (err != 0) error (err, 0, "error reading from server"); } } if (cvsencrypt && !rootless) { #ifdef ENCRYPTION /* Turn on encryption before turning on compression. We do not want to try to compress the encrypted stream. Instead, we want to encrypt the compressed stream. If we can't turn on encryption, bomb out; don't let the user think the data is being encrypted when it is not. */ #ifdef HAVE_KERBEROS if (current_parsed_root->method == kserver_method) { if (! supported_request ("Kerberos-encrypt")) error (1, 0, "This server does not support encryption"); send_to_server ("Kerberos-encrypt\012", 0); to_server = krb_encrypt_buffer_initialize (to_server, 0, sched, kblock, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); from_server = krb_encrypt_buffer_initialize (from_server, 1, sched, kblock, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); } else #endif /* HAVE_KERBEROS */ #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI if (current_parsed_root->method == gserver_method) { if (! supported_request ("Gssapi-encrypt")) error (1, 0, "This server does not support encryption"); send_to_server ("Gssapi-encrypt\012", 0); to_server = cvs_gssapi_wrap_buffer_initialize (to_server, 0, gcontext, ((BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL)); from_server = cvs_gssapi_wrap_buffer_initialize (from_server, 1, gcontext, ((BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL)); cvs_gssapi_encrypt = 1; } else #endif /* HAVE_GSSAPI */ error (1, 0, "Encryption is only supported when using GSSAPI or Kerberos"); #else /* ! ENCRYPTION */ error (1, 0, "This client does not support encryption"); #endif /* ! ENCRYPTION */ } if (gzip_level && !rootless) { if (supported_request ("Gzip-stream")) { char gzip_level_buf[5]; send_to_server ("Gzip-stream ", 0); sprintf (gzip_level_buf, "%d", gzip_level); send_to_server (gzip_level_buf, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); /* All further communication with the server will be compressed. */ to_server = compress_buffer_initialize (to_server, 0, gzip_level, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); from_server = compress_buffer_initialize (from_server, 1, gzip_level, (BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL); } #ifndef NO_CLIENT_GZIP_PROCESS else if (supported_request ("gzip-file-contents")) { char gzip_level_buf[5]; send_to_server ("gzip-file-contents ", 0); sprintf (gzip_level_buf, "%d", gzip_level); send_to_server (gzip_level_buf, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); file_gzip_level = gzip_level; } #endif else { fprintf (stderr, "server doesn't support gzip-file-contents\n"); /* Setting gzip_level to 0 prevents us from giving the error twice if update has to contact the server again to fetch unpatchable files. */ gzip_level = 0; } } if (cvsauthenticate && ! cvsencrypt && !rootless) { /* Turn on authentication after turning on compression, so that we can compress the authentication information. We assume that encrypted data is always authenticated--the ability to decrypt the data stream is itself a form of authentication. */ #ifdef HAVE_GSSAPI if (current_parsed_root->method == gserver_method) { if (! supported_request ("Gssapi-authenticate")) error (1, 0, "This server does not support stream authentication"); send_to_server ("Gssapi-authenticate\012", 0); to_server = cvs_gssapi_wrap_buffer_initialize (to_server, 0, gcontext, ((BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL)); from_server = cvs_gssapi_wrap_buffer_initialize (from_server, 1, gcontext, ((BUFMEMERRPROC) NULL)); } else error (1, 0, "Stream authentication is only supported when using GSSAPI"); #else /* ! HAVE_GSSAPI */ error (1, 0, "This client does not support stream authentication"); #endif /* ! HAVE_GSSAPI */ } #ifdef FILENAMES_CASE_INSENSITIVE if (supported_request ("Case") && !rootless) send_to_server ("Case\012", 0); #endif /* If "Set" is not supported, just silently fail to send the variables. Users with an old server should get a useful error message when it fails to recognize the ${=foo} syntax. This way if someone uses several servers, some of which are new and some old, they can still set user variables in their .cvsrc without trouble. */ if (supported_request ("Set")) walklist (variable_list, send_variable_proc, NULL); } #ifndef NO_EXT_METHOD /* Contact the server by starting it with rsh. */ /* Right now, we have two different definitions for this function, depending on whether we start the rsh server using popenRW or not. This isn't ideal, and the best thing would probably be to change the OS/2 port to be more like the regular Unix client (i.e., by implementing piped_child)... but I'm doing something else at the moment, and wish to make only one change at a time. -Karl */ #ifdef START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW /* This is actually a crock -- it's OS/2-specific, for no one else uses it. If I get time, I want to make piped_child and all the other stuff in os2/run.c work right. In the meantime, this gets us up and running, and that's most important. */ static void start_rsh_server (tofdp, fromfdp) int *tofdp, *fromfdp; { int pipes[2]; /* If you're working through firewalls, you can set the CVS_RSH environment variable to a script which uses rsh to invoke another rsh on a proxy machine. */ char *cvs_rsh = getenv ("CVS_RSH"); char *cvs_server = getenv ("CVS_SERVER"); int i = 0; /* This needs to fit "rsh", "-b", "-l", "USER", "host", "cmd (w/ args)", and NULL. We leave some room to grow. */ char *rsh_argv[10]; if (!cvs_rsh) /* People sometimes suggest or assume that this should default to "remsh" on systems like HPUX in which that is the system-supplied name for the rsh program. However, that causes various problems (keep in mind that systems such as HPUX might have non-system-supplied versions of "rsh", like a Kerberized one, which one might want to use). If we based the name on what is found in the PATH of the person who runs configure, that would make it harder to consistently produce the same result in the face of different people producing binary distributions. If we based it on "remsh" always being the default for HPUX (e.g. based on uname), that might be slightly better but would require us to keep track of what the defaults are for each system type, and probably would cope poorly if the existence of remsh or rsh varies from OS version to OS version. Therefore, it seems best to have the default remain "rsh", and tell HPUX users to specify remsh, for example in CVS_RSH or other such mechanisms to be devised, if that is what they want (the manual already tells them that). */ cvs_rsh = "rsh"; if (!cvs_server) cvs_server = "cvs"; /* The command line starts out with rsh. */ rsh_argv[i++] = cvs_rsh; #ifdef RSH_NEEDS_BINARY_FLAG /* "-b" for binary, under OS/2. */ rsh_argv[i++] = "-b"; #endif /* RSH_NEEDS_BINARY_FLAG */ /* Then we strcat more things on the end one by one. */ if (current_parsed_root->username != NULL) { rsh_argv[i++] = "-l"; rsh_argv[i++] = current_parsed_root->username; } rsh_argv[i++] = current_parsed_root->hostname; rsh_argv[i++] = cvs_server; rsh_argv[i++] = "server"; /* Mark the end of the arg list. */ rsh_argv[i] = (char *) NULL; if (trace) { fprintf (stderr, " -> Starting server: "); for (i = 0; rsh_argv[i]; i++) fprintf (stderr, "%s ", rsh_argv[i]); putc ('\n', stderr); } /* Do the deed. */ rsh_pid = popenRW (rsh_argv, pipes); if (rsh_pid < 0) error (1, errno, "cannot start server via rsh"); /* Give caller the file descriptors. */ *tofdp = pipes[0]; *fromfdp = pipes[1]; } #else /* ! START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW */ static void start_rsh_server (tofdp, fromfdp) int *tofdp; int *fromfdp; { /* If you're working through firewalls, you can set the CVS_RSH environment variable to a script which uses rsh to invoke another rsh on a proxy machine. */ char *cvs_rsh = getenv ("CVS_RSH"); char *cvs_server = getenv ("CVS_SERVER"); char *command; if (!cvs_rsh) cvs_rsh = "rsh"; if (!cvs_server) cvs_server = "cvs"; /* Pass the command to rsh as a single string. This shouldn't affect most rsh servers at all, and will pacify some buggy versions of rsh that grab switches out of the middle of the command (they're calling the GNU getopt routines incorrectly). */ command = xmalloc (strlen (cvs_server) + strlen (current_parsed_root->directory) + 50); /* If you are running a very old (Nov 3, 1994, before 1.5) * version of the server, you need to make sure that your .bashrc * on the server machine does not set CVSROOT to something * containing a colon (or better yet, upgrade the server). */ sprintf (command, "%s server", cvs_server); { char *argv[10]; char userhost[1024]; /* that should do for now */ char **p = argv; *p++ = cvs_rsh; if(! strcmp(cvs_rsh, "ssh")) { /* plan9 doesn't have the -l option */ sprintf(userhost, "%s@%s", current_parsed_root->username, current_parsed_root->hostname); *p++ = userhost; } else { *p++ = current_parsed_root->hostname; /* If the login names differ between client and server * pass it on to rsh. */ if (current_parsed_root->username != NULL) { *p++ = "-l"; *p++ = current_parsed_root->username; } } *p++ = command; *p++ = NULL; if (trace) { int i; fprintf (stderr, " -> Starting server: "); for (i = 0; argv[i]; i++) fprintf (stderr, "%s ", argv[i]); putc ('\n', stderr); } rsh_pid = piped_child (argv, tofdp, fromfdp); if (rsh_pid < 0) error (1, errno, "cannot start server via rsh"); } free (command); } #endif /* START_RSH_WITH_POPEN_RW */ #endif /* NO_EXT_METHOD */ /* Send an argument STRING. */ void send_arg (string) char *string; { char buf[1]; char *p = string; send_to_server ("Argument ", 0); while (*p) { if (*p == '\n') { send_to_server ("\012Argumentx ", 0); } else { buf[0] = *p; send_to_server (buf, 1); } ++p; } send_to_server ("\012", 1); } static void send_modified PROTO ((char *, char *, Vers_TS *)); /* VERS->OPTIONS specifies whether the file is binary or not. NOTE: BEFORE using any other fields of the struct vers, we would need to fix client_process_import_file to set them up. */ static void send_modified (file, short_pathname, vers) char *file; char *short_pathname; Vers_TS *vers; { /* File was modified, send it. */ struct stat sb; int fd; char *buf; char *mode_string; size_t bufsize; int bin; if (trace) (void) fprintf (stderr, " -> Sending file `%s' to server\n", file); /* Don't think we can assume fstat exists. */ if ( CVS_STAT (file, &sb) < 0) error (1, errno, "reading %s", short_pathname); mode_string = mode_to_string (sb.st_mode); /* Beware: on systems using CRLF line termination conventions, the read and write functions will convert CRLF to LF, so the number of characters read is not the same as sb.st_size. Text files should always be transmitted using the LF convention, so we don't want to disable this conversion. */ bufsize = sb.st_size; buf = xmalloc (bufsize); /* Is the file marked as containing binary data by the "-kb" flag? If so, make sure to open it in binary mode: */ if (vers && vers->options) bin = !(strcmp (vers->options, "-kb")); else bin = 0; #ifdef BROKEN_READWRITE_CONVERSION if (!bin) { /* If only stdio, not open/write/etc., do text/binary conversion, use convert_file which can compensate (FIXME: we could just use stdio instead which would avoid the whole problem). */ char tfile[1024]; strcpy(tfile, file); strcat(tfile, ".CVSBFCTMP"); convert_file (file, O_RDONLY, tfile, O_WRONLY | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC | OPEN_BINARY); fd = CVS_OPEN (tfile, O_RDONLY | OPEN_BINARY); if (fd < 0) error (1, errno, "reading %s", short_pathname); } else fd = CVS_OPEN (file, O_RDONLY | OPEN_BINARY); #else fd = CVS_OPEN (file, O_RDONLY | (bin ? OPEN_BINARY : 0)); #endif if (fd < 0) error (1, errno, "reading %s", short_pathname); if (file_gzip_level && sb.st_size > 100) { size_t newsize = 0; if (read_and_gzip (fd, short_pathname, (unsigned char **)&buf, &bufsize, &newsize, file_gzip_level)) error (1, 0, "aborting due to compression error"); if (close (fd) < 0) error (0, errno, "warning: can't close %s", short_pathname); { char tmp[80]; send_to_server ("Modified ", 0); send_to_server (file, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); send_to_server (mode_string, 0); send_to_server ("\012z", 2); sprintf (tmp, "%lu\n", (unsigned long) newsize); send_to_server (tmp, 0); send_to_server (buf, newsize); } } else { int newsize; { char *bufp = buf; int len; /* FIXME: This is gross. It assumes that we might read less than st_size bytes (true on NT), but not more. Instead of this we should just be reading a block of data (e.g. 8192 bytes), writing it to the network, and so on until EOF. */ while ((len = read (fd, bufp, (buf + sb.st_size) - bufp)) > 0) bufp += len; if (len < 0) error (1, errno, "reading %s", short_pathname); newsize = bufp - buf; } if (close (fd) < 0) error (0, errno, "warning: can't close %s", short_pathname); { char tmp[80]; send_to_server ("Modified ", 0); send_to_server (file, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); send_to_server (mode_string, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); sprintf (tmp, "%lu\012", (unsigned long) newsize); send_to_server (tmp, 0); } #ifdef BROKEN_READWRITE_CONVERSION if (!bin) { char tfile[1024]; strcpy(tfile, file); strcat(tfile, ".CVSBFCTMP"); if (CVS_UNLINK (tfile) < 0) error (0, errno, "warning: can't remove temp file %s", tfile); } #endif /* * Note that this only ends with a newline if the file ended with * one. */ if (newsize > 0) send_to_server (buf, newsize); } free (buf); free (mode_string); } /* The address of an instance of this structure is passed to send_fileproc, send_filesdoneproc, and send_direntproc, as the callerdat parameter. */ struct send_data { /* Each of the following flags are zero for clear or nonzero for set. */ int build_dirs; int force; int no_contents; int backup_modified; }; static int send_fileproc PROTO ((void *callerdat, struct file_info *finfo)); /* Deal with one file. */ static int send_fileproc (callerdat, finfo) void *callerdat; struct file_info *finfo; { struct send_data *args = (struct send_data *) callerdat; Vers_TS *vers; struct file_info xfinfo; /* File name to actually use. Might differ in case from finfo->file. */ char *filename; send_a_repository ("", finfo->repository, finfo->update_dir); xfinfo = *finfo; xfinfo.repository = NULL; xfinfo.rcs = NULL; vers = Version_TS (&xfinfo, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0, 0); if (vers->entdata != NULL) filename = vers->entdata->user; else filename = finfo->file; if (vers->vn_user != NULL) { /* The Entries request. */ send_to_server ("Entry /", 0); send_to_server (filename, 0); send_to_server ("/", 0); send_to_server (vers->vn_user, 0); send_to_server ("/", 0); if (vers->ts_conflict != NULL) { if (vers->ts_user != NULL && strcmp (vers->ts_conflict, vers->ts_user) == 0) send_to_server ("+=", 0); else send_to_server ("+modified", 0); } send_to_server ("/", 0); send_to_server (vers->entdata != NULL ? vers->entdata->options : vers->options, 0); send_to_server ("/", 0); if (vers->entdata != NULL && vers->entdata->tag) { send_to_server ("T", 0); send_to_server (vers->entdata->tag, 0); } else if (vers->entdata != NULL && vers->entdata->date) { send_to_server ("D", 0); send_to_server (vers->entdata->date, 0); } send_to_server ("\012", 1); } else { /* It seems a little silly to re-read this on each file, but send_dirent_proc doesn't get called if filenames are specified explicitly on the command line. */ wrap_add_file (CVSDOTWRAPPER, 1); if (wrap_name_has (filename, WRAP_RCSOPTION)) { /* No "Entry", but the wrappers did give us a kopt so we better send it with "Kopt". As far as I know this only happens for "cvs add". Question: is there any reason why checking for options from wrappers isn't done in Version_TS? Note: it might have been better to just remember all the kopts on the client side, rather than send them to the server, and have it send us back the same kopts. But that seemed like a bigger change than I had in mind making now. */ if (supported_request ("Kopt")) { char *opt; send_to_server ("Kopt ", 0); opt = wrap_rcsoption (filename, 1); send_to_server (opt, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); free (opt); } else error (0, 0, "\ warning: ignoring -k options due to server limitations"); } } if (vers->ts_user == NULL) { /* * Do we want to print "file was lost" like normal CVS? * Would it always be appropriate? */ /* File no longer exists. Don't do anything, missing files just happen. */ } else if (vers->ts_rcs == NULL || args->force || strcmp (vers->ts_user, vers->ts_rcs) != 0) { if (args->no_contents && supported_request ("Is-modified")) { send_to_server ("Is-modified ", 0); send_to_server (filename, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } else send_modified (filename, finfo->fullname, vers); if (args->backup_modified) { char *bakname; bakname = backup_file (filename, vers->vn_user); /* This behavior is sufficiently unexpected to justify overinformativeness, I think. */ if (! really_quiet) printf ("(Locally modified %s moved to %s)\n", filename, bakname); free (bakname); } } else { send_to_server ("Unchanged ", 0); send_to_server (filename, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } /* if this directory has an ignore list, add this file to it */ if (ignlist) { Node *p; p = getnode (); p->type = FILES; p->key = xstrdup (finfo->file); (void) addnode (ignlist, p); } freevers_ts (&vers); return 0; } static void send_ignproc PROTO ((char *, char *)); static void send_ignproc (file, dir) char *file; char *dir; { if (ign_inhibit_server || !supported_request ("Questionable")) { if (dir[0] != '\0') (void) printf ("? %s/%s\n", dir, file); else (void) printf ("? %s\n", file); } else { send_to_server ("Questionable ", 0); send_to_server (file, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } } static int send_filesdoneproc PROTO ((void *, int, char *, char *, List *)); static int send_filesdoneproc (callerdat, err, repository, update_dir, entries) void *callerdat; int err; char *repository; char *update_dir; List *entries; { /* if this directory has an ignore list, process it then free it */ if (ignlist) { ignore_files (ignlist, entries, update_dir, send_ignproc); dellist (&ignlist); } return (err); } static Dtype send_dirent_proc PROTO ((void *, char *, char *, char *, List *)); /* * send_dirent_proc () is called back by the recursion processor before a * sub-directory is processed for update. * A return code of 0 indicates the directory should be * processed by the recursion code. A return of non-zero indicates the * recursion code should skip this directory. * */ static Dtype send_dirent_proc (callerdat, dir, repository, update_dir, entries) void *callerdat; char *dir; char *repository; char *update_dir; List *entries; { struct send_data *args = (struct send_data *) callerdat; int dir_exists; char *cvsadm_name; if (ignore_directory (update_dir)) { /* print the warm fuzzy message */ if (!quiet) error (0, 0, "Ignoring %s", update_dir); return (R_SKIP_ALL); } /* * If the directory does not exist yet (e.g. "cvs update -d foo"), * no need to send any files from it. If the directory does not * have a CVS directory, then we pretend that it does not exist. * Otherwise, we will fail when trying to open the Entries file. * This case will happen when checking out a module defined as * ``-a .''. */ cvsadm_name = xmalloc (strlen (dir) + sizeof (CVSADM) + 10); sprintf (cvsadm_name, "%s/%s", dir, CVSADM); dir_exists = isdir (cvsadm_name); free (cvsadm_name); /* * If there is an empty directory (e.g. we are doing `cvs add' on a * newly-created directory), the server still needs to know about it. */ if (dir_exists) { /* * Get the repository from a CVS/Repository file whenever possible. * The repository variable is wrong if the names in the local * directory don't match the names in the repository. */ char *repos = Name_Repository (dir, update_dir); send_a_repository (dir, repos, update_dir); free (repos); /* initialize the ignore list for this directory */ ignlist = getlist (); } else { /* It doesn't make sense to send a non-existent directory, because there is no way to get the correct value for the repository (I suppose maybe via the expand-modules request). In the case where the "obvious" choice for repository is correct, the server can figure out whether to recreate the directory; in the case where it is wrong (that is, does not match what modules give us), we might as well just fail to recreate it. Checking for noexec is a kludge for "cvs -n add dir". */ /* Don't send a non-existent directory unless we are building new directories (build_dirs is true). Otherwise, CVS may see a D line in an Entries file, and recreate a directory which the user removed by hand. */ if (args->build_dirs && noexec) send_a_repository (dir, repository, update_dir); } return (dir_exists ? R_PROCESS : R_SKIP_ALL); } static int send_dirleave_proc PROTO ((void *, char *, int, char *, List *)); /* * send_dirleave_proc () is called back by the recursion code upon leaving * a directory. All it does is delete the ignore list if it hasn't already * been done (by send_filesdone_proc). */ /* ARGSUSED */ static int send_dirleave_proc (callerdat, dir, err, update_dir, entries) void *callerdat; char *dir; int err; char *update_dir; List *entries; { /* Delete the ignore list if it hasn't already been done. */ if (ignlist) dellist (&ignlist); return err; } /* * Send each option in a string to the server, one by one. * This assumes that the options are separated by spaces, for example * STRING might be "--foo -C5 -y". */ void send_option_string (string) char *string; { char *copy; char *p; copy = xstrdup (string); p = copy; while (1) { char *s; char l; for (s = p; *s != ' ' && *s != '\0'; s++) ; l = *s; *s = '\0'; if (s != p) send_arg (p); if (l == '\0') break; p = s + 1; } free (copy); } /* Send the names of all the argument files to the server. */ void send_file_names (argc, argv, flags) int argc; char **argv; unsigned int flags; { int i; int level; int max_level; /* The fact that we do this here as well as start_recursion is a bit of a performance hit. Perhaps worth cleaning up someday. */ if (flags & SEND_EXPAND_WILD) expand_wild (argc, argv, &argc, &argv); /* Send Max-dotdot if needed. */ max_level = 0; for (i = 0; i < argc; ++i) { level = pathname_levels (argv[i]); if (level > max_level) max_level = level; } if (max_level > 0) { if (supported_request ("Max-dotdot")) { char buf[10]; sprintf (buf, "%d", max_level); send_to_server ("Max-dotdot ", 0); send_to_server (buf, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } else /* * "leading .." is not strictly correct, as this also includes * cases like "foo/../..". But trying to explain that in the * error message would probably just confuse users. */ error (1, 0, "leading .. not supported by old (pre-Max-dotdot) servers"); } for (i = 0; i < argc; ++i) { char buf[1]; char *p = argv[i]; char *line = NULL; if (arg_should_not_be_sent_to_server (argv[i])) continue; #ifdef FILENAMES_CASE_INSENSITIVE /* We want to send the file name as it appears in CVS/Entries. We put this inside an ifdef to avoid doing all these system calls in cases where fncmp is just strcmp anyway. */ /* For now just do this for files in the local directory. Would be nice to handle the non-local case too, though. */ /* The isdir check could more gracefully be replaced with a way of having Entries_Open report back the error to us and letting us ignore existence_error. Or some such. */ if (p == last_component (p) && isdir (CVSADM)) { List *entries; Node *node; /* If we were doing non-local directory, we would save_cwd, CVS_CHDIR like in update.c:isemptydir. */ /* Note that if we are adding a directory, the following will read the entry that we just wrote there, that is, we will get the case specified on the command line, not the case of the directory in the filesystem. This is correct behavior. */ entries = Entries_Open (0, NULL); node = findnode_fn (entries, p); if (node != NULL) { line = xstrdup (node->key); p = line; delnode (node); } Entries_Close (entries); } #endif /* FILENAMES_CASE_INSENSITIVE */ send_to_server ("Argument ", 0); while (*p) { if (*p == '\n') { send_to_server ("\012Argumentx ", 0); } else if (ISDIRSEP (*p)) { buf[0] = '/'; send_to_server (buf, 1); } else { buf[0] = *p; send_to_server (buf, 1); } ++p; } send_to_server ("\012", 1); if (line != NULL) free (line); } if (flags & SEND_EXPAND_WILD) { int i; for (i = 0; i < argc; ++i) free (argv[i]); free (argv); } } /* Send Repository, Modified and Entry. argc and argv contain only the files to operate on (or empty for everything), not options. local is nonzero if we should not recurse (-l option). flags & SEND_BUILD_DIRS is nonzero if nonexistent directories should be sent. flags & SEND_FORCE is nonzero if we should send unmodified files to the server as though they were modified. flags & SEND_NO_CONTENTS means that this command only needs to know _whether_ a file is modified, not the contents. Also sends Argument lines for argc and argv, so should be called after options are sent. */ void send_files (argc, argv, local, aflag, flags) int argc; char **argv; int local; int aflag; unsigned int flags; { struct send_data args; int err; /* * aflag controls whether the tag/date is copied into the vers_ts. * But we don't actually use it, so I don't think it matters what we pass * for aflag here. */ args.build_dirs = flags & SEND_BUILD_DIRS; args.force = flags & SEND_FORCE; args.no_contents = flags & SEND_NO_CONTENTS; args.backup_modified = flags & BACKUP_MODIFIED_FILES; err = start_recursion (send_fileproc, send_filesdoneproc, send_dirent_proc, send_dirleave_proc, (void *) &args, argc, argv, local, W_LOCAL, aflag, 0, (char *)NULL, 0); if (err) error_exit (); if (toplevel_repos == NULL) /* * This happens if we are not processing any files, * or for checkouts in directories without any existing stuff * checked out. The following assignment is correct for the * latter case; I don't think toplevel_repos matters for the * former. */ toplevel_repos = xstrdup (current_parsed_root->directory); send_repository ("", toplevel_repos, "."); } void client_import_setup (repository) char *repository; { if (toplevel_repos == NULL) /* should always be true */ send_a_repository ("", repository, ""); } /* * Process the argument import file. */ int client_process_import_file (message, vfile, vtag, targc, targv, repository, all_files_binary, modtime) char *message; char *vfile; char *vtag; int targc; char *targv[]; char *repository; int all_files_binary; /* Nonzero for "import -d". */ int modtime; { char *update_dir; char *fullname; Vers_TS vers; assert (toplevel_repos != NULL); if (strncmp (repository, toplevel_repos, strlen (toplevel_repos)) != 0) error (1, 0, "internal error: pathname `%s' doesn't specify file in `%s'", repository, toplevel_repos); if (strcmp (repository, toplevel_repos) == 0) { update_dir = ""; fullname = xstrdup (vfile); } else { update_dir = repository + strlen (toplevel_repos) + 1; fullname = xmalloc (strlen (vfile) + strlen (update_dir) + 10); strcpy (fullname, update_dir); strcat (fullname, "/"); strcat (fullname, vfile); } send_a_repository ("", repository, update_dir); if (all_files_binary) { vers.options = xmalloc (4); /* strlen("-kb") + 1 */ strcpy (vers.options, "-kb"); } else { vers.options = wrap_rcsoption (vfile, 1); } if (vers.options != NULL) { if (supported_request ("Kopt")) { send_to_server ("Kopt ", 0); send_to_server (vers.options, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } else error (0, 0, "warning: ignoring -k options due to server limitations"); } if (modtime) { if (supported_request ("Checkin-time")) { struct stat sb; char *rcsdate; char netdate[MAXDATELEN]; if (CVS_STAT (vfile, &sb) < 0) error (1, errno, "cannot stat %s", fullname); rcsdate = date_from_time_t (sb.st_mtime); date_to_internet (netdate, rcsdate); free (rcsdate); send_to_server ("Checkin-time ", 0); send_to_server (netdate, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); } else error (0, 0, "warning: ignoring -d option due to server limitations"); } send_modified (vfile, fullname, &vers); if (vers.options != NULL) free (vers.options); free (fullname); return 0; } void client_import_done () { if (toplevel_repos == NULL) /* * This happens if we are not processing any files, * or for checkouts in directories without any existing stuff * checked out. The following assignment is correct for the * latter case; I don't think toplevel_repos matters for the * former. */ /* FIXME: "can't happen" now that we call client_import_setup at the beginning. */ toplevel_repos = xstrdup (current_parsed_root->directory); send_repository ("", toplevel_repos, "."); } static void notified_a_file (data, ent_list, short_pathname, filename) char *data; List *ent_list; char *short_pathname; char *filename; { FILE *fp; FILE *newf; size_t line_len = 8192; char *line = xmalloc (line_len); char *cp; int nread; int nwritten; char *p; fp = open_file (CVSADM_NOTIFY, "r"); if (getline (&line, &line_len, fp) < 0) { if (feof (fp)) error (0, 0, "cannot read %s: end of file", CVSADM_NOTIFY); else error (0, errno, "cannot read %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); goto error_exit; } cp = strchr (line, '\t'); if (cp == NULL) { error (0, 0, "malformed %s file", CVSADM_NOTIFY); goto error_exit; } *cp = '\0'; if (strcmp (filename, line + 1) != 0) { error (0, 0, "protocol error: notified %s, expected %s", filename, line + 1); } if (getline (&line, &line_len, fp) < 0) { if (feof (fp)) { free (line); if (fclose (fp) < 0) error (0, errno, "cannot close %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); if ( CVS_UNLINK (CVSADM_NOTIFY) < 0) error (0, errno, "cannot remove %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); return; } else { error (0, errno, "cannot read %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); goto error_exit; } } newf = open_file (CVSADM_NOTIFYTMP, "w"); if (fputs (line, newf) < 0) { error (0, errno, "cannot write %s", CVSADM_NOTIFYTMP); goto error2; } while ((nread = fread (line, 1, line_len, fp)) > 0) { p = line; while ((nwritten = fwrite (p, 1, nread, newf)) > 0) { nread -= nwritten; p += nwritten; } if (ferror (newf)) { error (0, errno, "cannot write %s", CVSADM_NOTIFYTMP); goto error2; } } if (ferror (fp)) { error (0, errno, "cannot read %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); goto error2; } if (fclose (newf) < 0) { error (0, errno, "cannot close %s", CVSADM_NOTIFYTMP); goto error_exit; } free (line); if (fclose (fp) < 0) { error (0, errno, "cannot close %s", CVSADM_NOTIFY); return; } { /* In this case, we want rename_file() to ignore noexec. */ int saved_noexec = noexec; noexec = 0; rename_file (CVSADM_NOTIFYTMP, CVSADM_NOTIFY); noexec = saved_noexec; } return; error2: (void) fclose (newf); error_exit: free (line); (void) fclose (fp); } static void handle_notified (args, len) char *args; int len; { call_in_directory (args, notified_a_file, NULL); } void client_notify (repository, update_dir, filename, notif_type, val) char *repository; char *update_dir; char *filename; int notif_type; char *val; { char buf[2]; send_a_repository ("", repository, update_dir); send_to_server ("Notify ", 0); send_to_server (filename, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); buf[0] = notif_type; buf[1] = '\0'; send_to_server (buf, 1); send_to_server ("\t", 1); send_to_server (val, 0); } /* * Send an option with an argument, dealing correctly with newlines in * the argument. If ARG is NULL, forget the whole thing. */ void option_with_arg (option, arg) char *option; char *arg; { if (arg == NULL) return; send_to_server ("Argument ", 0); send_to_server (option, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 1); send_arg (arg); } /* Send a date to the server. The input DATE is in RCS format. The time will be GMT. We then convert that to the format required in the protocol (including the "-D" option) and send it. According to cvsclient.texi, RFC 822/1123 format is preferred. */ void client_senddate (date) const char *date; { char buf[MAXDATELEN]; date_to_internet (buf, (char *)date); option_with_arg ("-D", buf); } void send_init_command () { /* This is here because we need the current_parsed_root->directory variable. */ send_to_server ("init ", 0); send_to_server (current_parsed_root->directory, 0); send_to_server ("\012", 0); } #endif /* CLIENT_SUPPORT */ --upas-qygkleanhemeczbcfubnvmllwv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 01:10:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 01:10:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25803 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 01:10:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25799 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 01:10:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 01:10:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9521919B45; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9024719BC0; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE18519AC8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C2D419B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id C6AAF3938; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 78B273937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from discostu.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.57]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1255.199.98.17.57.1064851357.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <3F784A92.84FDE48B@null.net> References: , <3F784A92.84FDE48B@null.net> Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I would prefer to see development of a social climate in which > it is so universally acknowledged that such attacks are not > acceptable that ordinary people take steps to stop it when they > detect it, instead of delegating the problem to government > agents. > Boyd, you may fire when ready. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 05:45:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 05:45:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31011 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 05:45:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31007 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 05:45:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 05:45:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF7B419B66; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71E0219BC6; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92A3219B9D; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E5A619B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.131.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 05:44:20 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] cpdir Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:44:18 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > cpdir is updated to ver.1.4 > -x option is added Sorry I forgot to say: You will find at http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/cmd/cpdir-1.4.tgz Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 06:15:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 06:15:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31780 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 06:15:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31776 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 06:15:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 06:15:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDC56199F6; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C80A19BBC; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D54919BAC; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB01A199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] cpdir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:14:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cpio From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 06:25:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 06:25:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31928 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 06:25:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31924 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 06:25:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 06:25:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2951119BA5; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C56319BCE; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:25:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7499E19ADB; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C57F719BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: SPAM: Re: [9fans] spam rejection after reception does have limits In-Reply-To: <1255.199.98.17.57.1064851357.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:24:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Boyd, you may fire when ready. aquire, target, verify [with a 3rd party], shoot. we'd prefer a lot of things, but it's not gonna happen. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 09:50:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 09:50:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5552 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 09:49:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5546 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 09:49:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 09:49:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BA2D19BE0; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECF8C19BE1; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03D1E19BCD; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A60A19BD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08629 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h8U0mUj16473 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Dan Cross Subject: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:48:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I mentioned this before, perhaps back in January. My mail server has two network interfaces, with seperate IP stacks for each. The internal stack gets mounted on /net, and the external stack gets mounted on /net.alt. However, for the last few months, I've noticed that when I try to send mail, smtp blocks and hangs trying to send it out the internal interface (mounted on /net); I've not spent the time to track down when and where it's hanging, but worked around it by adding: ``bind /net.alt /net'' to /mail/lib/remotemail before invoking smtp. That seems like an imperfect solution; what if I decide to add a machine on the internal network that accepts mail via SMTP? I suppose I could hack remotemail to try and be smart about binding stacks around based on where one is sending to, but one would hope for something more automatic. Indeed, it seems it used to be different. In particular, I remember dhog once saying that if DNS failed, it would try the lookup on /net.alt, and if that succeeded, use that stack instead. What's more, I distinctly remember this working. On the other hand, Dave said it was a terrible hack (and indeed, it is). But Dave had also changed the IP stack so that if a default route didn't exist on an interface, an error would immediately be bounced up the stack if a packet couldn't be sent, and higher-level code (such as that which tries /net.alt) could take over and try something else. Only it seems that somewhere along the way, something broke, and the `try /net.alt next' trick no longer works. Lamentable hack though it was, it did serve a purpose, and its disappearance makes me sad. :-( Does anyone know what happened, and how to either a) `fix' it, or b) do something to give the same effect? Thanks. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 10:14:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 10:14:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6769 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 10:14:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6740 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 10:13:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 10:13:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F69F19BC6; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B206719BE3; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:13:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8534319BE3; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E87FD19AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. In-Reply-To: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:12:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) That sounds exactly like out setup. Dial(2) actually tries first /net and then /net.alt, which is a terrible hack I did years ago to deal with out situation. However it continues to work for us. I take it that you were relying on exactly the same dial(2) roll over. It sounds like the dial used to fail on the inside before and then get tied on the outside. Now it sounds like perhaps it is succeeding on the inside but that where it succeeds to isn't something that really won't deliver your mail. Is there perhaps a system on the inside that is advertising MX entries for everything? The best thing to do is turn on debugging on smtp (in /mail/lib/remotemail) and see what's really going on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 11:51:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 11:51:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12507 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 11:51:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12479 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 11:50:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 11:50:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9917519BEF; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE3F819BE4; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:50:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4491B19BD9; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44DFA19BA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8U2nEXx002223 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:14 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8U2nDSa019206 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:13 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8U2nB7W001124 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:13 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] vmware.zip in "other" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:49:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I know this has been answered, but ... is the vmware.zip now a fossil-based install? If so, I want to try it out and have something to show off to people. (I did do a Google but failed to find anything -- sorry). thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 12:09:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 12:09:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13252 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 12:09:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13229 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 12:08:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 12:08:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3BE719BEA; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1768319BED; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:08:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F367B19BE8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D7CD19BD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8U36s6q010429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <87a1db1411793620f68d11ca55a2570b@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Google's GFS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:06:54 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Interesting paper. I'm curious why the authors didn't cite ken fs, or venti/fossil. Surely they'ld have heard of them. http://www.cs.rochester.edu/sosp2003/papers/p125-ghemawat.pdf From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 12:38:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 12:38:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14896 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 12:38:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14891 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 12:38:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 12:38:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FAED19BE8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DED2019BF0; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:38:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB65719AF5; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF94819BB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Google's GFS From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <87a1db1411793620f68d11ca55a2570b@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:37:34 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Interesting paper. I'm curious why the authors didn't cite > ken fs, or venti/fossil. Surely they'ld have heard of them. > > http://www.cs.rochester.edu/sosp2003/papers/p125-ghemawat.pdf ten years have passed since Ken's file server -- that's plenty enough to start reinventing it. i doubt they've heard of fossil -- google hasn't discovered plan9 yet. ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 12:47:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 12:47:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15329 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 12:47:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15302 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 12:46:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 12:46:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BC2619BF0; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 433D919BF8; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:46:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9883219AF5; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14AE319BED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <66c403e204056af41d6f606ceb874472@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware.zip in "other" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:44:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I did a fresh install inside VMware using the current "bleeding edge" CD from the extras page with no problems at all. Use that. The vmware.zip is old. It's too hard to regenerate. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 13:15:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 13:15:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16633 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 13:12:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16378 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 13:09:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 13:09:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 07FF919BFB; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25DC819A64; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:09:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4632219AD5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C7C919A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8U48H6q009902 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36601fa81b1616b7755a274e93c53ba7@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware.zip in "other" From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <66c403e204056af41d6f606ceb874472@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:08:20 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I did a fresh install inside VMware using the current > "bleeding edge" CD from the extras page with no problems > at all. Use that. The vmware.zip is old. It's too hard > to regenerate. What version of vmware? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 13:16:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 13:16:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17075 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 13:16:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16599 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 13:11:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 13:11:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA7E519A64; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04FDD19BF9; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BA3319A64; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7627B19BDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8U4AI6q013756 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Google's GFS From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:08:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ten years have passed since Ken's file server -- that's plenty enough > to start reinventing it. i doubt they've heard of fossil -- google > hasn't discovered plan9 yet. Hmm... Rob Pike was one of the reviewers of the paper, according to them. (i am become boyd, annoyer of the worlds) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 13:17:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 13:17:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17131 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 13:16:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16793 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 13:14:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 13:14:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6D8019C03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13B0D19C04; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:14:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 591B519ADB; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7D1A19BDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55422b604476322f2bea23dd787e06a5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware.zip in "other" In-Reply-To: <36601fa81b1616b7755a274e93c53ba7@centurytel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:13:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i was using 4, but i expect it to work fine in 3. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 13:21:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 13:21:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17479 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 13:21:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17474 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 13:21:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 13:21:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C73319BBB; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F19219BFE; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:21:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23A3E19BF2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8950C19BBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9812e67daef53f156869db4757afba62@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Google's GFS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:19:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Interesting paper. I'm curious why the authors didn't cite > ken fs, or venti/fossil. Why would they? Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, but I really don't think that either Plan 9 file server is anything like Google's file system. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 13:25:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 13:25:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17663 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 13:25:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17659 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 13:25:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 13:25:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C400B19C0D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B41919C0A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B921519BFE; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8132819BF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Google's GFS From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <9812e67daef53f156869db4757afba62@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:25:05 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Interesting paper. I'm curious why the authors didn't cite >> ken fs, or venti/fossil. > > Why would they? > > Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, but I really don't think > that either Plan 9 file server is anything like Google's file system. Yeah! those two have quite diffrent goal. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 15:28:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 15:28:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23670 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 15:28:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23665 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 15:28:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 15:28:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9777D19AC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BED2E19C13; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C713D19AD2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailnw.centurytel.net (mailnw.centurytel.net [209.206.160.237]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7EE119A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by mailnw.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8U6Rb6q003974 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Google's GFS From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <9812e67daef53f156869db4757afba62@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:27:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, but I really don't think > that either Plan 9 file server is anything like Google's file system. I find it hard to believe that a comparative analysis wouldn't have included at least one of the Plan9 fs'es. To my (novice) thinking some concepts sounded similar: append-only writes, namespace management, snapshots, two tiered architecture. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 16:27:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 16:27:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26552 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 16:27:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26538 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 16:27:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 16:27:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3FC019C16; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8617519C1D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:27:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9110719B43; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7BC419C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <229151-18053>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:24:49 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c38723$deaeab20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] ?AS protocol botch: No error Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:24:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what gives? and just when i had spam killed :( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:06:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:06:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28331 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:06:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28327 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:06:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:06:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9247E19B26; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D914319B45; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:06:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A5C619B31; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFF9019B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8U80Uef008362 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:00:32 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8U80ORb008361 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:00:25 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:12:04PM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:00:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 09:12:04PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > That sounds exactly like out setup. Dial(2) actually tries first > /net and then /net.alt, which is a terrible hack I did years ago > to deal with out situation. However it continues to work for us. > Would it be out of the question to teach dial to consult the routing table(s)? Plan 9 makes networking so painless, it is hard to become an expert, so questions like this may have obvious answers that are anything but obvious :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:25:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:25:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29142 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:25:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29131 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:24:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:24:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 816F519AA3; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7FFC19B48; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:24:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6028E19B31; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D11C19AA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d4c26dfb451cc7698c41750926e582d@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:10 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the stacks #I0, #I1, ... are all independent and have their own routing tables. you don't use separate stacks just to support several physical interfaces. you use separate stacks to provide complete isolation of each from the others. thus you still need to control which routing tables dial checked. furthermore, one or more stacks can be imported from another machine. furthermore, dial works across a range of protocols including non-internet ones. routing tables are internet-specific. thus you still need to search somehow through the name space, not #I... nor can routing tables as such be used. on the other hand, {/net /net.alt} only works for dial for two interfaces, which does suggest that Something Must Be Done. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:45:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:45:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29977 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:45:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29973 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:45:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:45:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1016F19A8A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CDF919B9E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8E9E19B69; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1656E19B26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <226594-19005>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:43:20 -0400 Message-ID: <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:42:41 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Would it be out of the question to teach dial to consult the routing > table(s)? maybe. i feel you'd be walking into a minefield. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:48:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:48:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30161 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:48:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30157 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:48:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:48:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 527FC19B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7865D19AC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:48:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4BA519A9D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50CFE19A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8U8g0ef008470 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:42:01 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8U8fxZZ008469 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:41:59 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930104158.C8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3d4c26dfb451cc7698c41750926e582d@caldo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3d4c26dfb451cc7698c41750926e582d@caldo.demon.co.uk>; from Charles Forsyth on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 09:20:10AM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:41:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 09:20:10AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > the stacks #I0, #I1, ... are all independent and have their own routing tables. Good point, bad idea... I guess IP will require IP routes and other things user other routes, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. > you don't use separate stacks just to support several physical interfaces. > you use separate stacks to provide complete isolation of each from the others. ... I was wondering how one makes a router out of a Plan 9 host. This bit I find a little out of the ordinary. > thus you still need to control which routing tables dial checked. > furthermore, one or more stacks can be imported from another machine. > furthermore, dial works across a range of protocols including non-internet ones. > routing tables are internet-specific. > Well, by that name. Some sort of routing has to exist, no matter the protocol, at best it's totally trivial. > thus you still need to search somehow through the name space, not #I... > nor can routing tables as such be used. > So it's a generic solution one needs to find, as you point out. It helps if the available information is associated with the interface, which is a namespace issue. Perhaps /net/ndb can be used, maybe a full routing only database? > on the other hand, {/net /net.alt} only works for dial for two interfaces, > which does suggest that Something Must Be Done. It should not be necessary to break the model, from net!dest!port we want to resolve to an interface, which is the leading field, is it not? But it is easy to fall into the trap of "all the world is IP". ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:57:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:57:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30518 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:57:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30514 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:57:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:57:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A61F519A68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AFCE19ABC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:57:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2A7219A68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D323419A8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <280040-17790>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:55:01 -0400 Message-ID: <010501c38730$6e0e0b60$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <3d4c26dfb451cc7698c41750926e582d@caldo.demon.co.uk> <20030930104158.C8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:54:16 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > But it is easy to fall into the trap of "all the world is IP". all the world is IP. many of the problems are _hard_. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 17:58:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 17:58:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30576 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 17:58:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30572 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 17:58:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 17:58:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 255B119AA3; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E51C319B29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:58:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F1ED19ABC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08B0A19B29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8U8qfef008516 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:52:44 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8U8qbPh008515 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:52:37 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 10:42:41AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:52:33 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 10:42:41AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > Would it be out of the question to teach dial to consult the routing > > table(s)? > > maybe. i feel you'd be walking into a minefield. IP without routing is 40 bytes too big in each packet. May as well define IL over HDLC (I've been wanting to do this for a long time), of course I mean Ethernet, and retain 9P over TCP over IP only for connections via Internet Access Villans. I'm sure dropping all IP routing bloat will make the LAN Plan 9 workstation kernel a whole lot simpler. We can relegate IP and routing to specialised nodes, as loadable kernel modules :-) ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:18:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:18:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31415 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:18:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31405 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:17:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:17:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E58319B88; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 481F019B6F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:17:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4838A19B29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EE8819A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f595b48898a172d97bbfb76ca53b24e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:16:26 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > connections via Internet Access Villans. I'm sure dropping all IP > routing bloat will make the LAN Plan 9 workstation kernel a whole > lot simpler. But now that we have the common idiom (i.e. ip) being adopted by everything in the world, it seems to be a mistake to fall appart and go back to il. We had lots of problems because our atm vlan config prior to adopting tcp for 9p connections. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:20:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:20:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31465 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:20:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31453 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:19:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:19:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7376519AE6; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAD2B19B29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:19:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1243319B29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3700C19B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <225430-19015>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:17:22 -0400 Message-ID: <011301c38733$8a60fe00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:16:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > IP without routing is 40 bytes too big in each packet. tried ATM? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:32:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:32:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31855 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:32:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31851 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:32:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:32:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02C7319A8F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 439F419B69; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 589C519B2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F184119AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <903863930e138f263fe2bf934522d5e4@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <010501c38730$6e0e0b60$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:34:34 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > But it is easy to fall into the trap of "all the world is IP". there are indeed many networks, even new ones, that aren't Internet Protocol, nor should it be necessary (in the Plan9/Inferno environment) to require an IP stack if you don't need one. part of the point of dial is to insulate you from many of the assumptions that some other systems make (including ``it's all IP'') From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:33:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:33:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31894 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:33:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31890 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:33:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:33:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 886FF19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F35519BA8; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:33:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B99D119B26; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E504819B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8U9RNef008609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:29 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8U9RJPI008608 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:19 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930112708.G8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <2f595b48898a172d97bbfb76ca53b24e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <2f595b48898a172d97bbfb76ca53b24e@plan9.escet.urjc.es>; from Fco.J.Ballesteros on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:16:26AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:16:26AM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > > > connections via Internet Access Villans. I'm sure dropping all IP > > routing bloat will make the LAN Plan 9 workstation kernel a whole > > lot simpler. > > But now that we have the common idiom (i.e. ip) being adopted by > everything in the world, it seems to be a mistake to fall appart > and go back to il. We had lots of problems because our atm vlan > config prior to adopting tcp for 9p connections. Sort of. There are certainly economies of scale involved, where a router today costs less than a trivial HDLC controller for the 8-bit PC bus did in 1982, but is it really all for the better? Now that it's dawning on the trend setters that they've forgotten to establish the social rules to play by, maybe somebody will also realise that a large fraction of the "developing world" could make good use of the obsolete equipment that the developed world is set on getting rid of, if only one could stop the marketing tide that insists that only tomorrow's products are any good for the present circumstances. And the refrain that suggests that "it costs too much" to recycle technology when perhaps the correct sentence is "it would undercut our sales". Yes, we've definitely slipped up on the ethical end of things. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:36:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:36:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31974 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:36:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31970 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:36:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:36:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 934C219AEC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5ADAE19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DE2E19B83; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9111219B26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <2f595b48898a172d97bbfb76ca53b24e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:38:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>and go back to il. We had lots of problems because our atm vlan >>config prior to adopting tcp for 9p connections. that one can't reliably add new IP protocols and have them work on the Internet in practice is fairly pathetic. worse, as far as i can tell, IPv6 replicated many of the mistakes of v4! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:40:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:40:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32084 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:40:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32079 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:40:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:40:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D514F19A8F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6197D19B83; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:40:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08E4019B00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (unknown [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E14C19B2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:39:23 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) those weren't mistakes, they were time-tested and proven practices! like 7-bit smtp.... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:42:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:42:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32168 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:42:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32164 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:42:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:42:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4E7C19BC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1262F19BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0437F19BAD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13ADD19B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4447df5b1d0853c0dd0f099400dd8b95@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:41:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oh, and NAPT is what seemed to mess up IL for me. IP itself doesn't contain port numbers and, as i recall, IL put its port numbers at different offsets in the packet than TCP and UDP did. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:43:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:43:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32206 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:43:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32202 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:43:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:43:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 233DB19BAD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1483919BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:43:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D6F619B00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AD1F19B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a40498f09ae12f2b08ca9e3bd68ec20@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <2f595b48898a172d97bbfb76ca53b24e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:41:49 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) of course, IL ran on top of IP, but never mind. i believe that one can still write `add net1 net2' messages to /net*/cs to tell the connection servers which of the available interfaces to try, and in what order. perhaps instead of separate connection servers for each stack (/net, /net.alt, etc.), we want one connection server that scans /net*/*/clone instead of /net/*/clone at startup, and can (also) be told add /net/tcp /net.alt/tcp or perhaps an inside connection server and an `inside and outside' server that one could bind on top of /net in some windows. incidentally, one problem with `net!dest!service' is that the service and destination names depend upon the network, so although `dk!nj/astro/helix!smtp' and `tcp!helix.cs.bell-labs.com!smtp' might be valid names, one can't easily try the `other' network by swapping `dk' and `tcp', since `tcp!nj/astro/helix' isn't a meaningful name, nor is (was) `dk!helix.cs.bell-labs.com', so to use the search facility of cs across dissimilar networks, it's necessary to define short names carefully in ndb and use only those. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:44:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:44:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32232 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:44:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32221 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:44:07 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:44:07 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1050B19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5C4319C0B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:43:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0213819B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 282F219BBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8U9bWef008660 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:34 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8U9bUE0008659 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:31 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930113724.H8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <011301c38733$8a60fe00$b9844051@insultant.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <011301c38733$8a60fe00$b9844051@insultant.net>; from boyd, rounin on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:16:32AM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:16:32AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > IP without routing is 40 bytes too big in each packet. > > tried ATM? No, I have never gone even near it. Neither do I know anything about Ethernet, to be perfectly honest. I had a brush with HDLC, a long time ago, and it looked quite adequate to my uneducated eye. I guess it would not serve wireless very well, but seeing it reintroduced in PPP had me curious. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:47:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:47:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32339 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:47:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32334 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:47:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:47:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 086AC19B9E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F36919BE7; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:47:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0A0919B00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0FA6719B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21734 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 09:46:34 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 09:46:34 -0000 Message-ID: <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:16 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) froggie uses BPMP (brucee's pci mailbox protocol) to serve the subservient frog legs. it screams. dial is the way to go. i have services that bind a dir onto /net and get dialed just fine. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "C H Forsyth" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. > >>and go back to il. We had lots of problems because our atm vlan > >>config prior to adopting tcp for 9p connections. > > that one can't reliably add new IP protocols and have them work > on the Internet in practice is fairly pathetic. > worse, as far as i can tell, IPv6 replicated many of the mistakes of v4! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:54:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:54:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32630 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:54:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32626 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:54:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:54:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 951BD19B29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EFE519BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:54:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4671719B2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBC2719BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <273e7c8f1143cd139b4150ed41fc3105@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-quedlvsrrnppcvjptsdbtnnbxt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:55:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-quedlvsrrnppcvjptsdbtnnbxt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit absolutely. --upas-quedlvsrrnppcvjptsdbtnnbxt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A4H6f-00063u-4T; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:48:00 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4H6f-00063u-4T; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:47:45 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6494119B00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 838B919BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:47:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0A0919B00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0FA6719B9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21734 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 09:46:34 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 09:46:34 -0000 Message-ID: <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:16 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) froggie uses BPMP (brucee's pci mailbox protocol) to serve the subservient frog legs. it screams. dial is the way to go. i have services that bind a dir onto /net and get dialed just fine. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "C H Forsyth" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. > >>and go back to il. We had lots of problems because our atm vlan > >>config prior to adopting tcp for 9p connections. > > that one can't reliably add new IP protocols and have them work > on the Internet in practice is fairly pathetic. > worse, as far as i can tell, IPv6 replicated many of the mistakes of v4! --upas-quedlvsrrnppcvjptsdbtnnbxt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:55:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:55:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32639 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:55:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32635 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:55:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:55:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5BCA19BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B9A219BBD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 718B219B31; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B0BC19B29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0c5dff05fa1c8b14196fcb9e3daf0cd7@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20030930113724.H8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:53:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) One view is that ATM is the less-interesting parts of Datakit (small cells, but no in-network authentication nor name service). In a dial string like `dk!nj/astro/helix!smtp', one handed `nj/astro/helix' to one's Datakit interface (I forget how the service was passed); there was none of this ARP and insecure DNS rubbish. PPP is a classic of second-system effect (see Brooks). SLIP was simple but didn't provide for transporting DECnet frames nor BISYNC nor OSI nor lots of other now-dead or at least not-very-well protocols (`i feel happy, i feel happy'). So rather than just adding support for ICMP or whatever was missing but actually desirable, and just clubbing the other protocols over the head and throwing their carcasses on the wagon, the standards people got involved, and decided that PPP needed oodles of negotiation and Assinine One (ASN.1) obfuscation and other needless complexity. (The negotiation isn't even guaranteed to terminate, but details, details.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 18:55:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 18:55:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32672 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 18:55:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32668 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 18:55:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 18:55:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A08E319C1B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11FDF19C0D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:55:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1205D19C1F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 440F419C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <219868-19005>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:53:41 -0400 Message-ID: <014201c38738$90226f40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309300048.h8U0mUj16473@augusta.math.psu.edu> <059e0e4c3d608815aebfbb2f219e5ac9@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20030930100020.B8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <00eb01c3872e$d06919a0$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030930105233.E8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <011301c38733$8a60fe00$b9844051@insultant.net> <20030930113724.H8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:52:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > tried ATM? > > No, I have never gone even near it. quick summary: 53 byte packets, 5 byte header, 48 byte payload. ATM is like X.25 on crack. do the math. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 19:13:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 19:13:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 908 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 19:13:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 904 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 19:13:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 19:13:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0903C19BF0; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2087C19BE1; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9EC719BBB; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C9819B76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <557162-3109>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:12:23 -0400 Message-ID: <015301c3873b$2a4b3d20$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0c5dff05fa1c8b14196fcb9e3daf0cd7@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:11:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > (The negotiation isn't even guaranteed to terminate, but details, details.) yes, hacked the 1st Ed PP server and THEN i read the RFC. i has no guarantee of termination. what !?! SLIP seems like a BSD-ism that was hacked up in a night; Simple Lousy Incompetent Protocol. dial is a good thing. it removes all that horrible 'how the hell do i set up this call' problem. datakit: not known to work reliably at any speed, but the code is huge ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 19:15:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 19:15:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 966 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 19:15:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 962 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 19:15:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 19:15:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6AAF19B87; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D62719C07; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:15:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3862519BF3; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A7E019B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3693834-17794>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:14:21 -0400 Message-ID: <015701c3873b$700e2020$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0c5dff05fa1c8b14196fcb9e3daf0cd7@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:13:04 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ATM 'crankback' is interesting, but you need it 'cos of the 5 byte header, which is kinda self defeating. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 20:49:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 20:49:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3842 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 20:49:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3838 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 20:49:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 20:49:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 059EC19A68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4837E19BF8; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:49:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C049F19C03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFFEC19B2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <68f908878e1fd11cd469901e268a5271@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <0c5dff05fa1c8b14196fcb9e3daf0cd7@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:51:02 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>and decided that PPP needed oodles of negotiation and Assinine One (ASN.1) there's asn.1 in ppp? i've forgotten (or i never had to do that bit) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 20:57:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 20:57:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4004 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 20:57:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3997 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 20:57:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 20:57:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F7A019C24; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11BB719B74; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:57:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D46A19A68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0743E19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8UBpKef008935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:51:24 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8UBpIFM008934 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:51:18 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. Message-ID: <20030930135113.I8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e>; from Bruce Ellis on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 07:48:16PM +1000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:51:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 07:48:16PM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > > froggie uses BPMP (brucee's pci mailbox protocol) to serve the > subservient frog legs. it screams. dial is the way to go. i have > services that bind a dir onto /net and get dialed just fine. > I detect a degree of consensus: dial is where the routing needs to be determined. Now we need to figure out how to tech dial all sorts of independent tricks to establish the relationships between destinations and interfaces (network stacks). I don't think we need to worry unduly about the reverse: once a packet has arrived over an interface, it can be assumed that that interface is the right one for the connection. If it can't be, one can make special arrangements. *** disclaimer - loose cannon below :-) *** Maybe we can have a "reach" file or control command in each protocol stack that returns a positive or negative response when queried as to whether a given "address" can be reached through that interface. How clever such a facility could be is for better designers than I to figure out. I imagine that some "hints" could be added to speed things up whenever possible. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 21:05:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 21:05:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4201 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 21:05:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4197 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 21:05:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 21:05:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F29A19A68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 900FA19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:05:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F21719AC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34CAE19A68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d4b3c6f92f111cbfc05f983cdf7b065@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <4447df5b1d0853c0dd0f099400dd8b95@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ixqszgokdmwwampwrrxcteomhz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:07:27 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ixqszgokdmwwampwrrxcteomhz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm not sure it would have helped (much). the checksums are in different locations even between tcp and udp. why must you change the checksum? well .... --upas-ixqszgokdmwwampwrrxcteomhz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A4H1k-0007Fb-AD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:43:15 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4H1k-0007Fb-AD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:42:40 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8749419B2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36B7D19BBD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:42:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0437F19BAD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13ADD19B00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4447df5b1d0853c0dd0f099400dd8b95@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:41:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oh, and NAPT is what seemed to mess up IL for me. IP itself doesn't contain port numbers and, as i recall, IL put its port numbers at different offsets in the packet than TCP and UDP did. --upas-ixqszgokdmwwampwrrxcteomhz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 22:30:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 22:30:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6488 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 22:30:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6484 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:30:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:30:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC4CA19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72BD419B53; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:30:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9874319B2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D357319B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:29:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) From the comments, I see that some people are confused. My terrible hack is only to live with totally separate stacks. If you want to openly route between different interfaces, or just have different interfaces to the 'open' internet, there's no reason for separate stacks. Any stack can have as many interfaces as you'ld like. The record so far was on the path star switch which support 256 interfaces on a single stack. In addition to multiple stacks, there are also multiple mount points. More than one network type can be on a single mount point. For example, you can have and IP stack and a datakit stack unioned on the same mount point. 'cs' is artificially intelligent and tries to figure out which you mean by the name you give it. If the name is possible on multiple network types, it gives you back the union of possibilities for you to work through. We lived that way for a long time while datakit was reliable and IP wasn't. Eventually datakit just died to be replaced by the monstrosity called ATM to later be replaced by the super-monstrosity called MPLS... Nothing against wasting bandwidth (it makes money for our company) just against the amazingly complex connection setup in those two networks. They are to datakit, what PPP is to SLIP. Clearly, dial doing what it does is a mistake, though I doubt it is Dan's problem. I could have made cs smart enough that I don't nead one per network mount point but instead one per system that understands all the mount points. That way it could consult all the stacks/mount points and see what is possible. The reason for not doing that to date is that the cs doesn't know which mount points/stacks the user process has in its name space. If I import an outside stack from our outside machine, there's no way for my cs to know that or even have access to that stack. Having cs under the mount point makes that a non-problem but pushes the responsibility to the library. To wit, I don't have a good idea for the correct solution and continue the hack until someone comes up with one. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 22:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 22:38:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6724 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 22:38:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6720 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:38:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:38:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E70919C03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7819D19BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:38:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BA3319BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A8C6B19B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:36:53 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:36:49 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F7986F1.000001.01549@tajfun.atc.cz> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] color of window border Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:36:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hallo planiners :-) i'd like to ask a question about graphics: is there any way to change the color of window border by libdraw function= ? window border is usualy green, i'd like to change it to black. is that possible? sasa babic ----------> Created by Email.cz http://www.email.cz <---------- Get Your= Free Email =20 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 22:49:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 22:49:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6918 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 22:49:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6914 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:49:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:49:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EF5E19B47; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1085719BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:49:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E683C19A20; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0892619B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26d3257790d8e6497b0838e0cb726b79@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3F7986F1.000001.01549@tajfun.atc.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:51:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > window border is usualy green, i'd like to change it to black. change the source! plan 9 doesn't go in for configurable styles in general (changing the font is as far as it goes). why black? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 22:52:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 22:52:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7016 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 22:52:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7012 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:52:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:52:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBB2619B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFCFB19BF5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:52:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAAD319B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2709619A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM1006014PPTN@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM1005F355M0O@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:22 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-reply-to: <3F7986F1.000001.01549@tajfun.atc.cz> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <8d19439ae11d1433db52212d6c18d1a2@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:38 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Sep 30 15:36:49 MDT 2003, a.b@email.cz wrote: > is there any way to change the color of window border by libdraw function? > window border is usualy green, i'd like to change it to black. > is that possible? I guess you can only change it by modifying the rio sources. The border color is set in /sys/src/cmd/rio/wind.c. Greetings Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 22:59:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 22:59:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7174 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 22:59:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7170 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:59:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:59:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F83C19C1A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C3E719C02; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:59:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE24819A20; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E592819A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:58:39 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F798C0F.000001.07115@tajfun.atc.cz> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] color of window border From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:58:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) for example, i made screensaver. i ran my screensaver program in window 8= 00x600, screensaver's background is black, but i hoped i could change border colo= r. :-(((( i don't want go into rio sources. sasa. _________________________________________________________________________= _______ ZNA=C8KOV=C9 PO=C8=CDTA=C8E DEXX - v=EDt=ECz testu hern=EDch PC v Computeru 11/2003 - dr=BEitel Chip TIP a TIP Po=E8=EDta=E8 pro ka=BEd=E9ho - cenov=FD trh=E1k -> kompletn=ED PC s 19" monitorem za 19.990 s DPH! - http://www.email.cz/dexx From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 23:04:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 23:04:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7347 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 23:04:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7343 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 23:04:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 23:04:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE8C419C22; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 456E919C0D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:04:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DE7119B9E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A00C19AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <032b4a63e4bf374e27e3bb880289ba6b@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <26d3257790d8e6497b0838e0cb726b79@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:03:44 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > why black? just to be different? or introduce more strain to the eye, so that you _really_ need that stiff drink after a day of Plan 9-ing? i live with black borders on white xterms in lunix, partly because it makes me feel more comfortable in rio and forces me to switch to its window more often. rampant themeing is sure to come -- it's a sign of a healthy userbase and the first step towards taking over the world (and turning Plan 9 into the next OS-everybody-loves-to-hate :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 23:06:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 23:06:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7407 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 23:06:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7403 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 23:06:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 23:06:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01AE419BC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 420A019C09; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:06:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5174219C1E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A58419C09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8UE02ef009227 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:00:08 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h8UDxvZ5009226 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:59:57 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Message-ID: <20030930155955.C8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <3F798C0F.000001.07115@tajfun.atc.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <3F798C0F.000001.07115@tajfun.atc.cz>; from a.b@email.cz on Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 03:58:39PM +0200 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:59:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 03:58:39PM +0200, a.b@email.cz wrote: > > for example, i made screensaver. i ran my screensaver program in window 800x600, > screensaver's background is black, but i hoped i could change border color. :-(((( > i don't want go into rio sources. > You don't need to. The stuff is fine as is. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 23:07:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 23:07:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7434 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 23:07:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7430 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 23:07:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 23:07:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEB8519C09; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4973C19C25; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:07:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E7C819AED; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E98C19BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91d6a5598b745cdfb742984515f4ce64@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3F798C0F.000001.07115@tajfun.atc.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:08:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > for example, i made screensaver. i ran my screensaver program in > window 800x600, screensaver's background is black, but i hoped i could > change border color. :-(((( i don't want go into rio sources. if your window doesn't move, you *can* change the window border colour (probably by drawing on _screen->image, although i haven't checked). as soon as the window gets moved or resized, rio will draw the window borders again however (probably isn't a problem for a screensaver) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 23:20:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 23:20:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7606 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 23:20:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7602 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 23:20:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 23:20:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCC3F19BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FC2819BC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:20:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9260F19B67; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9766F19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEJAXx004476 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:19:10 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEJAo3006324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:19:10 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEJA7W016234 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:19:10 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <3F798C0F.000001.07115@tajfun.atc.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:19:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 a.b@email.cz wrote: > i don't want go into rio sources. no, go into them. It's painless and quite neat. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Sep 30 23:21:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Sep 30 23:21:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7660 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Sep 2003 23:21:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7656 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 23:21:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 23:21:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12C7B19C29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 371C219C2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:21:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B52E319B20; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9CD119C03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEKPXx004833 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:20:25 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEKOPK022783 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:20:24 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UEKO7W016289 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:20:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <032b4a63e4bf374e27e3bb880289ba6b@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:20:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > rampant themeing is sure to come -- it's a sign of a healthy userbase > and the first step towards taking over the world (and turning Plan 9 > into the next OS-everybody-loves-to-hate :) yeah, for example, I want <= and => arrows to mean 'cycle to next window' instead of 'do whatever down-arrow does'. So I'm looking at the source and .. it's realy nice stuff. ron