From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:01:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:01:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8494 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:01:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8490 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:00:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:00:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7107E19BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E342B19BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:00:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D622A19BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF9D419B2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8UExb9j020473 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:59:37 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8UExbXK020469 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:59:37 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:59:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, ron minnich wrote: > yeah, for example, I want <= and => arrows to mean 'cycle to next window' > instead of 'do whatever down-arrow does'. So I'm looking at the source and > .. it's realy nice stuff. and very soon we arrive at very beautiful desktops that are unusable by anyone but the person who created them, worse yet -- we'd have something like Enlightenment, is a sensory overkill, nevermind that extra 50% of one's cpu time (back in the day) went for calculating funky resize animations... i see it every day -- someone says 'hey, andrey, come take a look at this', i'd sit on their terminal and say helplessly 'please open me a new xterm'... i really like rio as the common denominator -- simple is better.. i admit, i would like to see multiple virtual desktops for that little extra spice when my monitor gets cluttered with windows, but i'm not pushing it too hard :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8714 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:10:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8710 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:10:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:10:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C922819C0F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D70719C03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96B6C19A7F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0EFF19BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM1008018LUH1@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM100G0N8R2A1@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:02 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-reply-to: <91d6a5598b745cdfb742984515f4ce64@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Sep 30 16:08:56 MDT 2003, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if your window doesn't move, you *can* change the window border colour > (probably by drawing on _screen->image, although i haven't checked). Cool, it works! (Since I once tried to write a screensaver myself, I tried it out.) I did back=allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 1, 1), CMAP8, 1, DBlack); draw(_screen->image, _screen->image->r, back, nil, ZP); (If you put the draw() call in eresized, it doesn't even matter if the window is moved or resized.) But how is it possible in rio to create a window exactly as large as the screen (without modifying the source)? Also, for a screensaver, the mouse has to be hidden (or disabled if the screen is to be locked). It would be nice to have a screensaver/-locker in Plan 9, maybe one that incorporates Andrey's xscreensaver ports! We have all the pieces, there's just some cosmetics left to do. Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:11:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:11:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8735 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:11:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8731 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:11:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:11:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64FCB19BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BFB119C27; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F25719C1C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 97AB319A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:18 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:10:15 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F799CD7.000001.23308@tajfun.atc.cz> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] color of window border Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:10:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) thanx for so many answers. i don't want rio to converge to classic window managers! i don't want to start a flamewar :-)))) i'll try this: ... drawing on screen->image sasa babic. _________________________________________________________________________= _______ ZNA=C8KOV=C9 PO=C8=CDTA=C8E DEXX - v=EDt=ECz testu hern=EDch PC v Computeru 11/2003 - dr=BEitel Chip TIP a TIP Po=E8=EDta=E8 pro ka=BEd=E9ho - cenov=FD trh=E1k -> kompletn=ED PC s 19" monitorem za 19.990 s DPH! - http://www.email.cz/dexx From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:12:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:12:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8761 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:12:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8757 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:12:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:12:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E84F19C02; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 493F619C15; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B776B19BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57E6E19BCA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:13:46 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>would like to see multiple virtual desktops for that little extra spice when you could run several rios in big windows and hide them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:14:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:14:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8799 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:14:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8795 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:14:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:14:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EC5019BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93F0319C29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F23BF19BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93ADC19A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45ac63056307c841a8e7a0b88b7ed26a@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fqqwwujzoxngzyanejmtvoxexw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fqqwwujzoxngzyanejmtvoxexw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there was a lock.c posted to the list some time ago. It's what we use. Take a look at it; I think that'll answer you questions. hth --upas-fqqwwujzoxngzyanejmtvoxexw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Sep 30 17:10:40 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 27A1A19A7F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D70719C03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96B6C19A7F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0EFF19BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM1008018LUH1@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM100G0N8R2A1@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:02 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-reply-to: <91d6a5598b745cdfb742984515f4ce64@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Sep 30 16:08:56 MDT 2003, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if your window doesn't move, you *can* change the window border colour > (probably by drawing on _screen->image, although i haven't checked). Cool, it works! (Since I once tried to write a screensaver myself, I tried it out.) I did back=allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 1, 1), CMAP8, 1, DBlack); draw(_screen->image, _screen->image->r, back, nil, ZP); (If you put the draw() call in eresized, it doesn't even matter if the window is moved or resized.) But how is it possible in rio to create a window exactly as large as the screen (without modifying the source)? Also, for a screensaver, the mouse has to be hidden (or disabled if the screen is to be locked). It would be nice to have a screensaver/-locker in Plan 9, maybe one that incorporates Andrey's xscreensaver ports! We have all the pieces, there's just some cosmetics left to do. Christian --upas-fqqwwujzoxngzyanejmtvoxexw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:18:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:18:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8964 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:18:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8960 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:18:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:18:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFBB219BF5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF2819C32; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D00C19C1B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C069219C09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:16:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > back=allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 1, 1), CMAP8, 1, DBlack); There are already black and white images allocated for you as display->black and display->white. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:21:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:21:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9051 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:21:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9047 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:21:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:21:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A06B19C3A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80D9719C3E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:21:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E821919C29; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF54B19C32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8UEOfAo027113 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:24:42 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:24:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > yeah, for example, I want <= and => arrows to mean 'cycle to next window' > instead of 'do whatever down-arrow does'. So I'm looking at the source and > .. it's realy nice stuff. While we're talking about rio hacks, has anyone thought of uses for a four-button mouse? I've seen some mice with a nifty thumb button (button-4?) and can see myself doing window management with thumb chords a la, thumb-and-forefinger pick up window to move it. The main downside to every thumb-button mouse I've seen is the always present scroll-wheely. Cheers, Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:22:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:22:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9066 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:22:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9062 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:22:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:22:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 62FDA19C44; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68E1A19C32; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:22:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A82419C15; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B90419C29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKuXx024967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKuPK020694 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKu7W018626 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > you could run several rios in big windows and hide them. yeah, I've done this, but it's clumsy. I have to admit, watching people switch desktops with keyboards, and then watching them cycle windows with keyboards, I like it. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:28:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:28:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9225 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:28:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9220 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:28:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:28:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9868619C40; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 830CE19B35; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:28:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B633319C3C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BD7419A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM100701973EP@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:27:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM100GMC9L8A1@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:27:08 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <2cd2c2559099c9dfe6f3b6019505d078@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:27:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Sep 30 17:16:56 MDT 2003, rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > back=allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 1, 1), CMAP8, 1, DBlack); > > There are already black and white images allocated for you > as display->black and display->white. Oh well, i guess i should read graphics(2), draw(2), ... Thanks! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:31:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:31:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9293 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:31:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9289 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:31:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:31:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DDFF19B2C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E211C19AC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:31:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBF5019C48; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFFC319C15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:33:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) that might be nice the feature that keeps me using Enlightenment is alt & mouse 1 to grab a window for moving. When I change to other systems it's the one thing that I keep doing instinctively. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:32:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:32:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9322 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:32:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9317 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:32:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:32:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44DB319C59; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D22EF19C15; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E47519B2C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8271719C49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:30:52 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > But how is it possible in rio to create a window exactly as large as the > screen (without modifying the source)? Also, for a screensaver, the mouse > has to be hidden (or disabled if the screen is to be locked). > unless you're in a resized drawterm you can do: % fn fullscr {echo 0 0 \ `{hoc -e `{echo $vgasize | sed 's/x/ /g' | awk '{print $1}'}^-^1} \ `{hoc -e `{echo $vgasize | sed 's/x/ /g' | awk '{print $2}'}^-^1} \ } % window -r `{fullscr} /bin/lock 'some screensaver name' assuming lock will lock the screen and run the graphical program in it. it's on the xscr page (together with many changes and additions) http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/ i'll probably substitute the images for links to images -- it gets too graphics-heavy now... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:37:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:37:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9467 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:37:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9463 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:37:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:37:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6433A19C3D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D813D19C4C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 388F619C41; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B83D19C49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vcysdxejksvcspbtjsrraisedb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:39:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vcysdxejksvcspbtjsrraisedb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have the opposite feeling watching windows/unix users cycle through windows that way. i can't help thinking there must be a more direct way-- i don't know what it is, partly because with acme i've got very few windows, and in acme everything else is right there. when charon ends up underneath, which it often does, i'd prefer not to cycle through them to get to it but to have it end up somewhere better in the first place. --upas-vcysdxejksvcspbtjsrraisedb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A4MKd-0001r9-Fn; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:23:20 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4MKd-0001r9-Fn; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:22:31 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D932819C42; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A7C619C1C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:22:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A82419C15; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B90419C29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKuXx024967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKuPK020694 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UFKu7W018626 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > you could run several rios in big windows and hide them. yeah, I've done this, but it's clumsy. I have to admit, watching people switch desktops with keyboards, and then watching them cycle windows with keyboards, I like it. ron --upas-vcysdxejksvcspbtjsrraisedb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 00:39:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 00:39:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9541 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 00:39:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9537 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 00:39:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 00:39:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A61519AC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2CEC19C46; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:39:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59EBB19C41; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A66B19A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:38:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-64-175-44-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [64.175.44.111]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8UFcQux004476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:38:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <2324ef413663ec175a9c6128abfc5499@uni-bielefeld.de> Message-Id: <260E23C8-F35C-11D7-A311-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:38:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i posted code for a screensaver/locker a few months ago. should be easy to find in the archive. you can customize how it saves your screen to your heart's content. mine turns the display off. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 01:18:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 01:18:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10185 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 01:18:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10181 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 01:18:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 01:18:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 880CD19C02; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6803B19BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:18:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4397B19A86; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (unknown [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94CDD19B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id DD6EB3938; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 86F983937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proffrink.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.58]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1648.199.98.17.58.1064938272.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: "Joel Salomon" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:11:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Sam said: > The main downside to every thumb-button mouse I've > seen is the always present scroll-wheely. Until some function is applied to the thumb button (unlikely, except on private modifications - 3 button mice are a decent standard to adhere to, and *no one* wants standard "features" only accessible to owners of special hardware), why not assign the "middle button" function to the thumb button? Or maybe even let the thumb-button be the "left" button, and have the left become the "middle" ? The scroll-wheel is convenient (under windoze) for *small* scrollings. On sources, iirc, there is a patch to rio to let scroll-wheeling emulate up-arrow and down-arrow - I couldn't get it to work with my USB mouse, though. Is there a wheel patch for usbmouse? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 01:53:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 01:53:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10629 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 01:53:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10625 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 01:53:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 01:53:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2092919BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4049C19C1C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:53:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1F5E19BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07C3719B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UGqfv18047 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:52:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301652.h8UGqfv18047@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:52:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The main downside to every thumb-button mouse I've > seen is the always present scroll-wheely. Logitech has made them with three real buttons plus the thumb button, and no wheel. I know, because I have one. I probably bought it at least five years ago, though, so I don't know if they still make them. The world seems to have become wheel-obsessed in the interim. Unfortunately, I have never found a good use for the thumb button. I like your chording-for-window-management idea (it has occurred to me before), but the payoff has never seemed worth the effort: even if I taught the mouse driver and the window manager to do the right things, it still wouldn't work over vnc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:01:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:01:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10769 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:01:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10765 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:01:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:01:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5099119C1A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BC6519C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:01:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E10BD19C1A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3808E19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM100L01DD8RF@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:59:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM10003WDV8NH@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:59:32 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-reply-to: <260E23C8-F35C-11D7-A311-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <8305b02940fe907ed4eb1e88c5984c58@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:59:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thank you, Nemo, Andrey and Rob, for your tips. I've found lock.c in the archive -- actually that does all i want. Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:04:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:04:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10791 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:04:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10787 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:04:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:04:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B25A199DC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C91D319C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:04:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD68919BC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2730199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <260302-17791>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:02:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01fa01c38774$697d95e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <68f908878e1fd11cd469901e268a5271@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:00:53 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > there's asn.1 in ppp? i've forgotten (or i never had to do that bit) not iirc. i think it's just a gramatical problem. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:11:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:11:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10926 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:11:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10922 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:11:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:11:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B678519C2C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0D7719C3B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E35C919C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C364619B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <244348-27389>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: <020101c38775$5a0c8840$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <20030930135113.I8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:07:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I detect a degree of consensus: dial is where the routing needs to > be determined. Now we need to figure out how to tech dial all > sorts of independent tricks to establish the relationships between > destinations and interfaces (network stacks). hard > I don't think we need to worry unduly about the reverse: once a > packet has arrived over an interface, it can be assumed that that > interface is the right one for the connection. If it can't be, > one can make special arrangements. the interface my die. the net/route may go down. there my be mutiple interfaces on the same net. no, this is the 'ultrix school of coding to fix improbable kernel conditions', which can't be tested. it goes: error 1 try to fix error 1 error 2 try to fix error 2 error 3 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:13:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:13:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10993 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:13:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10989 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:13:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:13:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44E4119C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9920319C4A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FC4E19C46; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DAC519C15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <721313-14058>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:25 -0400 Message-ID: <021501c38775$a06801c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5d4b3c6f92f111cbfc05f983cdf7b065@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:09:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) checksums? we don't need no stinkin' [UDP] checksums -- Sun From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:20:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:20:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11076 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:20:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11071 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:20:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:20:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8F1219C43; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0216219C44; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73CFD19C44; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63E9119BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UHImXx003570 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:48 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UHImo3030998 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:48 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UHIl7W023712 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:47 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. In-Reply-To: <021501c38775$a06801c0$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:18:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > checksums? we don't need no stinkin' [UDP] checksums -- Sun well and lots of other people who have been fooled. HP, for example, had a 'smart NIC' in the 80s. Worked great. Except you couldn't ftp certain files. And then there was atm. and hippi 800. and myrinet. and quadrics. I'm sure infiniband will make the same mistake. People keep forgetting: end to end does NOT mean card-to-card. We just saw this the other day on myrinet: a certain data pattern would induce a problem in one out of 2048 links, on one point-to-point link, on one tcp port. Fun to diagnose, as the symptom was a stuck tcp queue. It was a bad switch port. ah well. Networks (and network designers) should stop trying to make promises they can't keep. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:31:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:31:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11409 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:31:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11405 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:31:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:31:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86C5C19B67; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDBCF19C50; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:31:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D23E919BA5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C749519BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8UGXxAo027675 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:34:04 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <200309301652.h8UGqfv18047@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Joel said: > Until some function is applied to the thumb button (unlikely, except on > private modifications - 3 button mice are a decent standard to adhere > to, and *no one* wants standard "features" only accessible to owners of > special hardware), why not assign the "middle button" function to the > thumb button? Or maybe even let the thumb-button be the "left" button, > and have the left become the "middle" ? I agree that mouse specific features would be irritating. I've been trying to think of ways to make the basic set of rio tasks easier with a thumb button. Just because we can use thumb chords to mimic common tasks without going to the menus (move, resize, new) doesn't mean the menus have to go away. Richard said: > Unfortunately, I have never found a good use for the thumb button. I > like your chording-for-window-management idea (it has occurred to me > before), but the payoff has never seemed worth the effort: even if I > taught the mouse driver and the window manager to do the right things, > it still wouldn't work over vnc. Similar point -- the menus would still be accessible over vnc. Sam From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:42:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:42:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11541 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:42:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11537 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:42:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:42:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E33019B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BB2319C1A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:42:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4A7219B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3C4C199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <237322-19015>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:39:49 -0400 Message-ID: <025601c38779$54c38c40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8d19439ae11d1433db52212d6c18d1a2@uni-bielefeld.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:36:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > is there any way to change the color of window border by libdraw function? if you want X11 ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 02:43:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 02:43:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11548 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 02:43:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11544 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 02:43:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 02:43:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4580719B60; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8EC719C3F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:43:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2969619C4E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4395219B60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <98397f279a10a182604af7dc180fa743@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <021501c38775$a06801c0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nljelaoktrzftraizqppssgfdn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:45:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nljelaoktrzftraizqppssgfdn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, that wasn't what i meant. having the checksums on the data is all very well, for the reasons mentioned. why do you need to change them? well .... --upas-nljelaoktrzftraizqppssgfdn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A4O48-0002lL-Fp; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:37 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4O48-0002lL-Fp; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:37 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B9F419C3B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACD3D19C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:13:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FC4E19C46; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DAC519C15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <721313-14058>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:25 -0400 Message-ID: <021501c38775$a06801c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5d4b3c6f92f111cbfc05f983cdf7b065@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:09:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) checksums? we don't need no stinkin' [UDP] checksums -- Sun --upas-nljelaoktrzftraizqppssgfdn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:01:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:01:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11829 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:01:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11825 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:01:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:01:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C23919C58; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A80FC19C3F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:01:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7D8E19C32; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A42BF19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UI06123513 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301800.h8UI06123513@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:00:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Similar point -- the menus would still be accessible over vnc. Yes, of course, but if I do most of my work over vnc then the payoff for me is small, since I'm using the menu most of the time anyway. And then I can't rely on "muscle memory" when I want to move a window -- I have to consciously think about whether I'm talking to vnc or not (lest I wind up moving the whole vnc session). And another thought: I think the real brilliance of chords in acme is not that they optimize common operations, but that by optimizing a few important operations they enable a different and more productive style of working. It's remarkable how much it has cut down on repetitive typing for me. On the other hand, I can't imagine chords ever having the same sort of fundamental impact on the way I use the window manager. Which makes me question whether it's really worth doing. None of this should dissuade you, of course, if you feel like trying it. In fact, if I remember tonight I'll send you the model number for my mouse. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:06:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:06:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11857 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:06:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11853 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:06:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:06:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B340819AC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F124519C44; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:06:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12CA319BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45BD719A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UI50l24099 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301805.h8UI50l24099@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] NAT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I realize that there are a number of reasons why network address translation is a bad idea, but I'm curious: has anyone ever implemented it using a plan 9 system, and, if so, what have your experiences been? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:11:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:11:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11943 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:11:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11939 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:11:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:11:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E16D319BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76E1E19C50; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8D4F19A2C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 828D919BD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <468568-14059>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:09:05 -0400 Message-ID: <02bd01c3877c$95091240$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309301652.h8UGqfv18047@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:59:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'd prefer to have my machine/terminal in an area where i don't need to lock it (which always goes off when i'm just about to do something). if you can't have a secure area and your terminal/machine has a usb port i think that a user mode 'monitor' of some crypto-secure usb ram/disk might be nice. i rip it out when i walk away from the machine, i jam it back in when i come back. same sort of thing any half way decent bank uses with their tellers. can't be too hard to code. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:13:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:13:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11969 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:13:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11965 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:13:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:13:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F003419B48; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C520919BC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:13:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AB5B19AB4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FB4919BA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Tue Sep 30 14:12:43 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT References: <200309301805.h8UI50l24099@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200309301805.h8UI50l24099@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:12:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The first commerical NAT product, the Network Translation PIX Firewall was written using Plan 9. Nat didn't bother us because the routers all trashed the IL anyway. Guess one of the reasons it was called Pix? On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT), Richard C Bilson wrote: > I realize that there are a number of reasons why network address > translation is a bad idea, but I'm curious: has anyone ever implemented > it using a plan 9 system, and, if so, what have your experiences been? > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:23:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:23:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12221 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:23:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12217 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:23:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:23:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F2D519C27; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2592E19AF2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:23:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B722419B74; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9920D19AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8UJiQ113209 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:44:26 -0400 Received: from 135.214.150.100 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15299.135.214.150.100.1064951066.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The first commerical NAT product, the Network Translation PIX Firewall > was written using Plan 9. Nat didn't bother us because the routers all > trashed the IL anyway. > > Guess one of the reasons it was called Pix? to mean Plan 9 (P - IX)? Right or wrong? WOW, forget NAT. It feels good to know Plan 9 was used for building a commercial network product. Regards dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:27:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:27:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12312 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:27:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12308 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:27:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:27:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 657C919C39; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2FA319C48; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:27:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DBDE19C27; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B207619AB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: ynl@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:25:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) We (ehg, ynl) implemented a stateful IPv6-IPv4 nat (address/port/protocol translator) in Plan9. Works fine. - Lakshman From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:37:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:37:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12535 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:37:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12531 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:37:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:37:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E73E19B20; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE2DE19BF8; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:37:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93F4F19B70; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8FE119AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Tue Sep 30 14:36:23 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed References: <15299.135.214.150.100.1064951066.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15299.135.214.150.100.1064951066.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:36:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT), wrote: >> The first commerical NAT product, the Network Translation PIX Firewall >> was written using Plan 9. Nat didn't bother us because the routers all >> trashed the IL anyway. >> >> Guess one of the reasons it was called Pix? > > to mean Plan 9 (P - IX)? Right or wrong? Correct in one! And it meant Private Internet eXchange, a pun on PBX, but it still meant P9 as well. > > WOW, forget NAT. It feels good to know Plan 9 was used for building a > commercial network product. > > Regards > dharani > > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:46:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:46:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12761 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:45:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12757 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:45:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:45:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C99AA19B20; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6C8A19C3D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA7F419AE6; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4185319BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92f848eb1b18661062ea870639204301@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200309301805.h8UI50l24099@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vwafdlhdssthvdswfggetpogkp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:39:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vwafdlhdssthvdswfggetpogkp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm not sure it is inherently a bad idea. it's as messy as it is (and frankly it's not that bad), mainly because many important ipv4 things were designed before it, and the ipv6 people apparently thought they needn't even try, similar to the length field in 802.? --upas-vwafdlhdssthvdswfggetpogkp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A4Otb-0001lw-Ec; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:06:47 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4Otb-0001lw-Ec for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:06:47 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B340819AC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F124519C44; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:06:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12CA319BD4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45BD719A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UI50l24099 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301805.h8UI50l24099@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] NAT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I realize that there are a number of reasons why network address translation is a bad idea, but I'm curious: has anyone ever implemented it using a plan 9 system, and, if so, what have your experiences been? --upas-vwafdlhdssthvdswfggetpogkp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 03:47:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 03:47:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12792 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 03:47:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12788 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:47:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:47:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A06019C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB74419B03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:47:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCFFD19BE9; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2113D19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32b3237b7feb002a35dfdafe30731d84@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <02bd01c3877c$95091240$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:49:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) should there be bordered windows at all? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:13:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:13:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13150 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:13:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13146 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:13:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:13:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FB8019B60; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A19419BC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E088919B03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C03FB19BE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <283236-18062>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:07:57 -0400 Message-ID: <032901c38784$13291c40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <92f848eb1b18661062ea870639204301@caldo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:52:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think it's a terrible idea. NAT'd UDP really requires state and that's what TCP is (roughly). but the port space is too small and with UDP you have no idea for how long to wait or if the datagram will come back, so you're open to a denial of service attack (the T's can be on the inside too). i've seen DNS's refuse UDP requests, which have been NAT'd, 'cos they don't come from port 53 -- argh ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:15:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:15:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13162 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:15:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13158 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:15:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:15:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B47819BE9; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2E6F19C4E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EFF519BC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CE5219AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UJEXN29405 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301914.h8UJEXN29405@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:14:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We (ehg, ynl) implemented a stateful IPv6-IPv4 nat (address/port/protocol translator) in Plan9. > Works fine. Any source available? I just learned today that my ISP charges $10 per month per extra IP address (how's *that* for a profit margin), so it has become something more than a casual interest for me. I'm not particularly trusting of those little NAT firewall boxes that everyone seems so enamored with these days. I realize that IPv6-IPv4 is a different kind of translation, but it would be nice to have something to start with. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:21:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:21:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13217 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:21:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13213 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:21:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:21:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A75319C0D; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA06219C4E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:21:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FEDF19B03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56F1419BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8UKgd113465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:42:39 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32217.135.214.42.162.1064954559.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200309301914.h8UJEXN29405@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> References: <200309301914.h8UJEXN29405@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:42:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> We (ehg, ynl) implemented a stateful IPv6-IPv4 nat >> (address/port/protocol translator) in Plan9. Works fine. > > Any source available? > > I just learned today that my ISP charges $10 per month per extra IP > address (how's *that* for a profit margin), so it has become something > more than a casual interest for me. I'm not particularly trusting of > those little NAT firewall boxes that everyone seems so enamored with > these days. whats wrong with it? I think those boxes works well (and act as plug-and- play firewalls). > I realize that IPv6-IPv4 is a different kind of translation, but it > would be nice to have something to start with. this is for use in the IPv6/IPv4 network. if your ISP gives you IPv4 network connectivity, you wouldnt need it. am i right? or am i missing something? dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:25:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:25:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13290 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:25:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13285 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:25:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:25:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2C1419BCA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 667F219C4E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F70519BC2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD97B19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UJObr00040; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:24:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301924.h8UJObr00040@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: NAT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:24:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ah. I found the paper by ehg and ynl. Nice, but I don't have any spare network processors lying around. Of course, I wouldn't actually need them to do the simple/low volume stuff that I want to do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:39:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:39:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13503 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:39:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13499 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:39:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:39:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 905DE19C59; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AB0E19C57; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5ECDD19C58; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FC5319BD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: NAT In-Reply-To: <200309301924.h8UJObr00040@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:38:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Richard C Bilson wrote: > Ah. I found the paper by ehg and ynl. Nice, but I don't have any > spare network processors lying around. Of course, I wouldn't actually > need them to do the simple/low volume stuff that I want to do. IEEE Network, July/August 2003, 17:4,35-39 We also did it in Plan 9 on a simple PC, for comparison and to get the code right before diving into IXP1200 assembler. As far as Plan 9 experience is concerned, the nice part was how easily IPv6 went in. NAT itself is pretty straightforward on any OS. The Lucent Firewall product runs (a mix of Inferno and) Plan 9. > Any source available? Because of the commercial products, we decided not to polish our NAT implementation and put it into the standard distribution. With decent home NAT devices available for $50 or less, it hardly seemed worth the extra effort. Eric From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:48:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:48:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13632 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:48:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13628 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:48:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:48:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD86419C55; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8FDF19C66; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:48:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44F2A19C64; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6704219BD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h8UJlZC02108 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200309301947.h8UJlZC02108@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:47:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > whats wrong with it? I think those boxes works well (and act as plug-and- > play firewalls). Plug-and-play is good, no question. But you're placing your trust in a vendor who has undoubtedly disclaimed all responsibility for providing you with any real security. You don't know what's going on under the hood, and have no guarantee that the vendor is actually fixing security problems, or that they will continue to do so. There have been enough network-accessible back-doors to make me nervous. At least if I have the code I have control. I also have the responsibility, but it's better than having responsibility without control. > > I realize that IPv6-IPv4 is a different kind of translation, but it > > would be nice to have something to start with. > this is for use in the IPv6/IPv4 network. if your ISP gives you IPv4 > network connectivity, you wouldnt need it. am i right? or am i missing > something? The point is that they did stateful NAT, which is what I'm considering. If there is code available, I could potentially modify it to do internal/external translation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 04:52:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 04:52:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13685 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 04:52:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13681 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 04:52:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 04:52:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAB5619BAD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DE9919BE9; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:52:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C315C19BD5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B58F819C62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8ULDL113560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:21 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52815.135.214.42.162.1064956401.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: NAT From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:13:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Richard C Bilson wrote: >> Ah. I found the paper by ehg and ynl. Nice, but I don't have any >> spare network processors lying around. Of course, I wouldn't actually >> need them to do the simple/low volume stuff that I want to do. > IEEE Network, July/August 2003, 17:4,35-39 > > We also did it in Plan 9 on a simple PC, for comparison and to get the > code right before diving into IXP1200 assembler. As far as > Plan 9 experience is concerned, the nice part was how easily IPv6 > went in. NAT itself is pretty straightforward on any OS. > > The Lucent Firewall product runs (a mix of Inferno and) Plan 9. > >> Any source available? > Because of the commercial products, we decided not to polish our > NAT implementation and put it into the standard distribution. > With decent home NAT devices available for $50 or less, it > hardly seemed worth the extra effort. sometime back there was a mail that said NAT and firewall code will be integrated to Plan 9 kernel. i was wondering whether it is really a good idea to put NAT/firewall code into the OS. i think it is better to seperate NAT/firewall code from the kernel (unlike linux, FreeBSD, Win, etc). At times, it may look really needed (like a standalone box connected to an ISP network directly), but i think at best we can have it as a user-level application to meet these scenarios. Just my opinion. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 05:30:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 05:30:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14185 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 05:30:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14181 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:30:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:30:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ECD2B19B03; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3195119BC4; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:30:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B50D019B02; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A72A319B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <230287-13993>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:28:54 -0400 Message-ID: <036001c3878f$45492340$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309301947.h8UJlZC02108@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:13:09 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > At least if I have the code I have control. I also have the > responsibility, but it's better than having responsibility without > control. yup, gimme the code and get outa the way ;) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 05:31:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 05:31:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14207 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 05:31:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14203 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:31:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:31:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F61019B02; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 188D619CA9; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:31:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6039619CC8; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 672A319B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8UKM8619658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:22:08 -0400 Message-ID: <0ae601c38792$90f2ebc0$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309301652.h8UGqfv18047@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <02bd01c3877c$95091240$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:36:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if you can't have a secure area and your terminal/machine > has a usb port i think that a user mode 'monitor' of some > crypto-secure usb ram/disk might be nice. i rip it out when i > walk away from the machine, i jam it back in when i come > back. How about a proximity token or vicinity token. The vicinity token is clipped to your shirt or embedded in an ID badge. When you walk away your monitor and keyboard are disabled, when you come back within (settable) range they reactivate. Typically uses Bluetooth or rfid. The prox token uses IrDA and must be placed close to the port. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 05:35:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 05:35:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14291 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 05:35:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14287 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:35:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:35:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1824919C6C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B41419C59; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 127B619AF2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C651119B93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UKY6Xx016627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:34:06 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UKY3PK008760 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:34:03 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h8UKY27W031578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:34:02 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <32b3237b7feb002a35dfdafe30731d84@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:34:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > should there be bordered windows at all? looking at that beautiful rio code, seems like it ought to be easy. And the true fun is, it is so easy to muck around with rio and then test it in a rio window ... compare that to trying to tweak ANYTHING in an X desktop manager. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 05:36:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 05:36:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14312 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 05:36:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14308 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:36:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:36:10 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5CB219C69; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47B3319C79; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AA1819B4A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73D2D19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <228100-13992>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:32:59 -0400 Message-ID: <037f01c3878f$d7fc11c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <52815.135.214.42.162.1064956401.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: NAT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:16:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > sometime back there was a mail that said NAT and firewall code will be > integrated to Plan 9 kernel. i was wondering whether it is really a good > idea to put NAT/firewall code into the OS. no it isn't. bugs will kill you dead. if it's in user mode the problem can be contained and a lot easier to code/run/test. no root on plan 9 :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 05:52:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 05:52:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14559 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 05:52:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14555 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:52:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:52:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 144E519C78; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7C3619C69; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:52:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84FC719AF2; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BBBD19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <289186-18170>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:48:36 -0400 Message-ID: <038a01c38792$064d2580$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200309301652.h8UGqfv18047@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <02bd01c3877c$95091240$b9844051@insultant.net> <0ae601c38792$90f2ebc0$6400a8c0@dell01> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:32:51 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How about a proximity token or vicinity token. hmm that's not so hot. at CRL 'we' had active badges. that was kinda cool. there are attacks on proximity and active id's. the métro in paris now has passive proxity monthy passes, with old h/w style tickets for backup. i love 'em, but it's only protecting a métro ride. we had passive badges at PRL to get into the lab, but physical badges for ID, which we never wore 'cos we knew everyone and if you did wear a badge you obviously didn't 'belong'. but, some of the 'machine rooms' you had to know the code for the electronic digital locks. those code we're _never_ given out to anybody wasn't trusted (and after some idiot kicked the power cable out of one of my uVAX's i was at the point of saying: only these small n people, who i trust, can have thim). but everything had gone to shit by then anyway ... maybe at this job fair tomorrow they'll have some usb ram disks to give out as toys, so i might have a go at it with 'coma'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 06:00:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 06:00:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14632 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 06:00:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14628 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 06:00:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 06:00:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8530619C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E36A19C67; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:00:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8737019A8F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A059A19B48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f382669702c91ed49cb7144bb0d4b37@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <0ae601c38792$90f2ebc0$6400a8c0@dell01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:58:48 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How about a proximity token or vicinity token. The vicinity token is clipped > to your shirt or embedded in an ID badge. When you walk away your monitor > and keyboard are disabled, when you come back within (settable) range they > reactivate. Typically uses Bluetooth or rfid. The prox token uses IrDA and > must be placed close to the port. the Sun Ray terminals were good that way -- you plug in your card, do your stuff and take the card out when you're done. plug in somewhere and continue from where you left before... i've wanted to see that in Plan 9 for 3 years (no, vnc doesn't count :) http://wwws.sun.com/sunray/sunray150/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 06:26:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 06:26:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15176 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 06:26:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15172 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 06:26:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 06:26:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8AEB19C6C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C056319C6B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:26:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3533B19C39; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B92719C6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8ULPTe7089495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT Message-ID: <2147483647.1064935529@[192.168.42.6]> In-Reply-To: <32217.135.214.42.162.1064954559.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <200309301914.h8UJEXN29405@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <32217.135.214.42.162.1064954559.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:29 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:42 PM -0400 vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: >> more than a casual interest for me. I'm not particularly trusting of >> those little NAT firewall boxes that everyone seems so enamored with >> these days. > whats wrong with it? I think those boxes works well (and act as > plug-and- play firewalls). Only if all[*] of your internal hosts do the uPnP dance with the NAT box. None of mine do. --lyndon [*] Well, the ones that need to communicate with the world at large. In my case that's all of the hosts on my internal network. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 07:34:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 07:34:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16217 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 07:34:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16213 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 07:34:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 07:34:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32E5019B93; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0D8719B63; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:34:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C313219B42; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D2A519B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1064935529@[192.168.42.6]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-epqiirwnhfcfcersgoojdzdrag" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:29:21 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-epqiirwnhfcfcersgoojdzdrag Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what??? i send messages out and things come back. what on earth are they doing? sounds more of a PRAT than a NAT box --upas-epqiirwnhfcfcersgoojdzdrag Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A4S1F-00021N-9w; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:26:53 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4S1F-00021N-9w for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:26:53 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8AEB19C6C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C056319C6B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:26:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3533B19C39; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B92719C6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (peregrin.orthanc.ab.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8ULPTe7089495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] NAT Message-ID: <2147483647.1064935529@[192.168.42.6]> In-Reply-To: <32217.135.214.42.162.1064954559.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <200309301914.h8UJEXN29405@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <32217.135.214.42.162.1064954559.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:25:29 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:42 PM -0400 vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: >> more than a casual interest for me. I'm not particularly trusting of >> those little NAT firewall boxes that everyone seems so enamored with >> these days. > whats wrong with it? I think those boxes works well (and act as > plug-and- play firewalls). Only if all[*] of your internal hosts do the uPnP dance with the NAT box. None of mine do. --lyndon [*] Well, the ones that need to communicate with the world at large. In my case that's all of the hosts on my internal network. --upas-epqiirwnhfcfcersgoojdzdrag-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 08:38:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 08:38:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17482 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 08:38:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17478 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 08:38:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 08:38:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1AE919C55; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3BD519C67; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5EDB19C58; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AB6619B71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A4UBG-0000e9-00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:45:22 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border References: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87k77pu9gt.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 30 Sep 2003 18:45:22 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>>> "ron" == ron minnich writes: ron> looking at that beautiful rio code, seems like it ought to be ron> easy. And the true fun is, it is so easy to muck around with rio ron> and then test it in a rio window ... compare that to trying to ron> tweak ANYTHING in an X desktop manager. ron> ron> ron You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type "startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ? --Rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 08:49:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 08:49:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17931 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 08:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17927 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 08:49:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 08:49:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16CC519A06; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 224EF19C68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:49:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2B1019A06; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6AE619AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <87k77pu9gt.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:50:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If you were really developing a rio tweak you would have the necessary command for starting rio in Acme somewhere something like window rc -c rio so your analogy should be "You mean the pain and torment of middle click compared to the ease and simplicity of typing ctrl-alt-f7 startx --:2 enter" add into that the new rio will run next to your editor sorry, you lose From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 08:58:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 08:58:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18159 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 08:57:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18149 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 08:57:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 08:57:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 346EC19C68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0622719C74; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13FC519C6E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A8BE19BD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <558832-3121>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:55:39 -0400 Message-ID: <041a01c387ab$c88dcf00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:37:15 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yeah, i have this file [good god no] $home/lib/windows which gets run when rio starts and i have all my windows running what i want, where i want it. but i'm sure it's far to complex :-P From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 09:08:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 09:08:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18672 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 09:08:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18664 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 09:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 09:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94AA119C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB12019C72; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63C8519C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82FD219C6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: NAT In-Reply-To: <037f01c3878f$d7fc11c0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dqjztukkspxpesofsxszyobzsi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:07:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dqjztukkspxpesofsxszyobzsi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's an inferno firewall. Ehg and ynl did a NAT but I don't know what the status of it is. --upas-dqjztukkspxpesofsxszyobzsi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Sep 30 16:36:18 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Sep 30 16:36:15 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4669319C76; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 117C919C71; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AA1819B4A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73D2D19BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <228100-13992>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:32:59 -0400 Message-ID: <037f01c3878f$d7fc11c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <52815.135.214.42.162.1064956401.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: NAT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:16:56 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > sometime back there was a mail that said NAT and firewall code will be > integrated to Plan 9 kernel. i was wondering whether it is really a good > idea to put NAT/firewall code into the OS. no it isn't. bugs will kill you dead. if it's in user mode the problem can be contained and a lot easier to code/run/test. no root on plan 9 :) --upas-dqjztukkspxpesofsxszyobzsi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 09:11:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 09:11:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18803 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 09:11:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18749 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 09:10:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 09:10:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D514119C68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3721719C81; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:10:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E70D19C68; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7654E19C7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <68d356259e75d4c1ddde221b8fa07a15@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <68f908878e1fd11cd469901e268a5271@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:29 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Odd, I remember a PPP implementor telling me years ago that he'd had to implement ASN.1 as part of a from-scratch PPP implementation, yet I see no reference to ASN.1 in the Plan 9 PP*P* code and only this reference in the PPP RFCs (in the PPP CHAP RFC): The Name field is one or more octets representing the identification of the system transmitting the packet. There are no limitations on the content of this field. For example, it MAY contain ASCII character strings or globally unique identifiers in ASN.1 syntax. The Name should not be NUL or CR/LF terminated. The size is determined from the Length field. Maybe the people he was working for decided to use ASN.1 here for some perverse reason. Nevertheless, PPP is the sendmail of serial line framing protocols. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 09:28:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 09:28:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19547 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 09:28:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19542 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 09:28:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 09:28:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0534519C43; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1246419C7C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFF2219C43; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF60919C69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428ac862defe79a6f5357786ab8f9160@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <68d356259e75d4c1ddde221b8fa07a15@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:23:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Odd, I remember a PPP implementor telling me years ago that he'd had >>to implement ASN.1 as part of a from-scratch PPP implementation, yet I i'm sure someone has or will find a use for it somewhere. if they'd done it today it would use XML for negotiation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 09:30:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 09:30:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19637 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 09:30:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19633 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 09:30:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 09:30:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD33319C81; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7165919C8C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:30:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E87E19C7C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC89019C53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e4cc7ddc13c96197b7401485a43bd88@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <87k77pu9gt.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-acfsesehrrulvoqqtiaycgmsgf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:24:47 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-acfsesehrrulvoqqtiaycgmsgf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i suspect he was talking about also modifying the CODE of an X11 window manager. flipping is right. --upas-acfsesehrrulvoqqtiaycgmsgf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A4U4i-0006Zd-BV; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:38:36 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A4U4i-0006Zd-BV for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:38:36 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1AE919C55; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3BD519C67; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5EDB19C58; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgristroph-austin.ath.cx (cs24356-14.austin.rr.com [24.243.56.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AB6619B71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rgr by rgristroph-austin.ath.cx with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A4UBG-0000e9-00; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:45:22 -0500 From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border References: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87k77pu9gt.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 30 Sep 2003 18:45:22 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>>> "ron" == ron minnich writes: ron> looking at that beautiful rio code, seems like it ought to be ron> easy. And the true fun is, it is so easy to muck around with rio ron> and then test it in a rio window ... compare that to trying to ron> tweak ANYTHING in an X desktop manager. ron> ron> ron You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type "startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ? --Rob --upas-acfsesehrrulvoqqtiaycgmsgf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 09:45:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 09:45:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20640 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 09:45:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20636 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 09:45:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 09:45:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C76BA19C3E; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5979119C77; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:45:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44F7019C6B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 515DA19C3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:40:21 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > should there be bordered windows at all? i really meant `borders' in the larger sense, not (just) lines drawn round them. it seems odd to me that there is significant hardware available casually now but on XP MacOSX Redhat it's all the same old thing. different twiddles, perhaps (though often not even that), but so far of the environments i've seen only acme has really stood out. is that it, then? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 10:01:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 10:01:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21526 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 10:01:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21522 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 10:01:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 10:01:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4C8919C43; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BAE119C8C; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:01:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10AD519C77; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ACAA19A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CE65F66B50; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:00:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Message-ID: <20031001010021.GG834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:00:21 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:40:21AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > should there be bordered windows at all? > > i really meant `borders' in the larger sense, > not (just) lines drawn round them. it seems > odd to me that there is significant hardware > available casually now but on XP MacOSX Redhat > it's all the same old thing. different twiddles, > perhaps (though often not even that), but so > far of the environments i've seen only acme > has really stood out. > > is that it, then? i wrote a short rant on this in response to Sun's announcement of there mad hatter desktop. i adore acme for coding. whenever i go back to anything else, it always feels clunky and frustrating. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 11:03:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 11:03:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24558 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 11:03:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24554 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 11:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 11:03:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4113B19C9A; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A900D19C84; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:03:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8F7119B94; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E808519A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9122IXx027544 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:02:18 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9122Ho3018782 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:02:17 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9122H7W009916 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:02:17 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: <97bca9a7ee8ffaa6861f51703c185b96@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:02:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) or, like me, spending a day with two seemingly-identical sets of code, one of which is an ugly pile of shit, and can blank the cursor; the other, a bit less ugly, and which can't. And of course the only error is BadOp. Which is why, on my web page to this day, the pictures of my Sarnoff tiled display cluster still have an 'X' cursor in the middle: I couldn't blank the damned thing. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 11:06:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 11:06:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24206 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 10:58:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24158 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 10:58:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 10:58:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1FBA19C91; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 034F719C77; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:58:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4821119C56; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46D3519B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <97bca9a7ee8ffaa6861f51703c185b96@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <87k77pu9gt.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:57:32 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type > "startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as > compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select > new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ? > > --Rob it's more like this (because i've done it): - finding what to edit in X's source -- 1 hour (500mb source!) - editing a small change -- 5 minutes repeat: - rethinking whether you did the right thing while it compiles -- 5 minutes - waiting for the rest of the compile to finish -- 1 hour (varies) - goto repeat unless you're happy -- 0 minutes - pressing ctlr+alt+Fx -- 0 minutes - pressing ctlr+alt+Fx a few more times because you can't find where your last session where -- 0 minutes - cursing and typing your username at the login: window -- 1 minute - typing startx :2 to start new X -- 1 minute (and waiting for it to start) - finding the consequences of your change -- 5 minutes - killing X because you realized you started the wrong binary -- 0 minutes - typing $home/src/somewhere/blah/startx -- 5 minutes (includes making sure it didn't _still_ start the wrong binary) Frustration: endless... I'm sorry, you can't beat the functionality you get for something as simple as Rio. And as a developer you really can't beat the ~7000 (!) lines of code that it comprises. ok, there are differences (vga drivers are in the kernel, for example). still it's much simpler and even complete idiots like me can understand it. somewhat. inflamatory subject though, i admit :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 13:05:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 13:05:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30454 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 13:05:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30450 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 13:05:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 13:05:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81A2719C8A; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DA1819B15; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1E3019C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33A8119B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 8E944CD70; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:04:41 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Message-ID: <20031001040441.GA712@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:04:41 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 12:33:40PM -0400, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > that might be nice > > the feature that keeps me using Enlightenment is alt & mouse 1 to grab a > window for moving. > > When I change to other systems it's the one thing that I keep doing > instinctively. That's hardly a reason to suffer a monstrosity like E. Even old-sk00l twm does that by default. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 14:23:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 14:23:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2160 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 14:22:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2145 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 14:22:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 14:22:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69EC619B0B; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2711F19C77; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:22:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40A6D19B0B; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6A8A19B7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17962 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 05:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 05:21:11 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h915LBb215430; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:21:11 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <8a0a335a1266c14c62a1b5b805dd4079@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:21:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) just from curiosity. "On Tue Sep 30 18:34:55 JST 2003, cross@sdgm.net wrote:" > It also has support for specifying two files, > /sys/lib/webls.allowed and /sys/lib/webls.denied for restricting > access to what parts of the web space it will create listings for why not bind all the desired directories on somewhere, let's say /usr/web/webls for example, and make webls services only under the directory? these whatever.^(allowed denied) files remind me of unix somehow. thanks. -- YAMANASHI Takeshi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 14:40:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 14:40:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3425 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 14:40:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3421 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 14:40:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 14:40:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19B6119C53; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC4E419C77; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98F1B19C23; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC16F19B31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26613 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h915d3j23173 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310010539.h915d3j23173@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:21:06 +0900." <8a0a335a1266c14c62a1b5b805dd4079@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:39:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) YAMANASHI Takeshi writes: > just from curiosity. > > "On Tue Sep 30 18:34:55 JST 2003, cross@sdgm.net wrote:" > > It also has support for specifying two files, > > /sys/lib/webls.allowed and /sys/lib/webls.denied for restricting > > access to what parts of the web space it will create listings for > > why not bind all the desired directories on somewhere, > let's say /usr/web/webls for example, and make webls services > only under the directory? > > these whatever.^(allowed denied) files remind me of unix somehow. Hmm, that's an idea. I'll think about it. My initial reaction is that you'd have to do all the binds somewhere, and have a skeletal directory structure under /usr/web/webls, which strikes me as tedious. Still, I'll give it some thought. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 14:47:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 14:47:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3941 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 14:47:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3937 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 14:47:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 14:47:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 162EA19C9D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E38B19C9C; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71CA219C94; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 764D819C84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h915fbef012271 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:40 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h915fYn5012270 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:34 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. Message-ID: <20031001074131.F8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <8a0a335a1266c14c62a1b5b805dd4079@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> <200310010539.h915d3j23173@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200310010539.h915d3j23173@augusta.math.psu.edu>; from Dan Cross on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:39:03AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:39:03AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > > > > why not bind all the desired directories on somewhere, > > let's say /usr/web/webls for example, and make webls services > > only under the directory? > > > > these whatever.^(allowed denied) files remind me of unix somehow. > > Hmm, that's an idea. I'll think about it. My initial reaction is > that you'd have to do all the binds somewhere, and have a skeletal > directory structure under /usr/web/webls, which strikes me as tedious. > Still, I'll give it some thought. > Bind(1) does not have an "exclude" function that I can know of, which means that exclusions can only be effected by enumerating the inclusions. This can get extremely tedious. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 14:52:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 14:52:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4364 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 14:52:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4360 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 14:52:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 14:52:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 382C819C9A; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D99B19C77; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:33:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ECD1919C8C; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4350B19B7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h915W2j23127 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310010532.h915W2j23127@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:40:21 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:32:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Charles Forsyth writes: > > > should there be bordered windows at all? > > i really meant `borders' in the larger sense, > not (just) lines drawn round them. it seems > odd to me that there is significant hardware > available casually now but on XP MacOSX Redhat > it's all the same old thing. different twiddles, > perhaps (though often not even that), but so > far of the environments i've seen only acme > has really stood out. > > is that it, then? It's a sad state of affairs. Well, there's still Squeak and Oberon, but neither has any mainstream traction. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 17:07:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 17:07:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11771 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 17:07:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11759 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 17:07:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 17:07:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1049B19B04; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F86419BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:07:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5988319B04; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BE7EC19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39338 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 08:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 08:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 08:06:01 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h91861b244346; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:06:01 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <8822f5d6871b810fee4cdcc1a65bdb49@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:05:56 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 1 14:47:34 JST 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > Bind(1) does not have an "exclude" function that I can know of, > which means that exclusions can only be effected by enumerating > the inclusions. This can get extremely tedious. ten points for Griffindor. i neglected the case that fine grained access control is necessary. Thank you for your replies. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 17:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 17:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12865 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 17:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12861 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 17:33:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 17:33:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 996C019BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D4AC19C93; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:33:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 737BA19C81; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22B5319BE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 04:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <020101c38775$5a0c8840$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zsxhmurbrrurapvlyctihpjodv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:32:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zsxhmurbrrurapvlyctihpjodv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I don't think dial could be teached at all. It depends on user preferences. Perhaps a sort of microlenguage to program such preferences could be the way to go (together with reasonable defaults so you could forget about it if you dont mind). --upas-zsxhmurbrrurapvlyctihpjodv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Sep 30 19:11:49 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A101D19C27; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0D7719C3B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E35C919C23; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C364619B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <244348-27389>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: <020101c38775$5a0c8840$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <968b6a09adf6724f3bdd4525efee97a1@vitanuova.com> <009701c38738$06a39cd0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <20030930135113.I8268@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] Multi-stack mail problem. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:07:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I detect a degree of consensus: dial is where the routing needs to > be determined. Now we need to figure out how to tech dial all > sorts of independent tricks to establish the relationships between > destinations and interfaces (network stacks). hard > I don't think we need to worry unduly about the reverse: once a > packet has arrived over an interface, it can be assumed that that > interface is the right one for the connection. If it can't be, > one can make special arrangements. the interface my die. the net/route may go down. there my be mutiple interfaces on the same net. no, this is the 'ultrix school of coding to fix improbable kernel conditions', which can't be tested. it goes: error 1 try to fix error 1 error 2 try to fix error 2 error 3 ... --upas-zsxhmurbrrurapvlyctihpjodv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 18:14:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 18:14:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14574 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 18:14:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14570 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 18:14:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 18:14:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 448F219A01; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A0F219CA1; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:14:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89CE519C6C; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C20119A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <75cd803eaaff86d53f52dddad60fe147@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20031001040441.GA712@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vsuulwiswfnrxwnmpjdtllracn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:16:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vsuulwiswfnrxwnmpjdtllracn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's hardly a reason to suffer a monstrosity like E. Well I'm not exactly suffering I only keep X at all for dual monitors and a web browser I didn't know twm did it but I know 9wm doesn't 8( --upas-vsuulwiswfnrxwnmpjdtllracn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from cabbage.proweb.net ([195.182.164.29]) by pop.proweb.net (Slinky ver 1.61) with SMTP for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 04:08:25 GMT Received: from patricia.fasthosts.co.uk ([213.171.192.150]) by cabbage.proweb.net (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id M2003100105054104642 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:05:41 +0100 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6] by patricia.fasthosts.co.uk with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.00) id A28242B200DE; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:05:22 +0100 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2338419C27; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09FB819C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:05:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1E3019C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33A8119B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 8E944CD70; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:04:41 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Message-ID: <20031001040441.GA712@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:04:41 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-UIDL: CD:e9$2Ae93Z^!!n$1!! On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 12:33:40PM -0400, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > that might be nice > > the feature that keeps me using Enlightenment is alt & mouse 1 to grab a > window for moving. > > When I change to other systems it's the one thing that I keep doing > instinctively. That's hardly a reason to suffer a monstrosity like E. Even old-sk00l twm does that by default. --upas-vsuulwiswfnrxwnmpjdtllracn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 19:09:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 19:09:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16409 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 19:09:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16405 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 19:09:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 19:09:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16CB519A01; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A460819C9E; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:09:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CBB419A01; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5656819BF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <220457-9176>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:07:06 -0400 Message-ID: <00aa01c38803$b4b758e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <75cd803eaaff86d53f52dddad60fe147@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:06:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I only keep X at all for dual monitors and a web browser > > I didn't know twm did it but I know 9wm doesn't 8( twm did. you could 'fairly' easily beat into some sort of 8 1/2. when faced with X i just 'leave it alone', edit my .Xdefaults, install sam and THAT'S IT. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 20:42:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 20:42:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18814 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 20:42:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18809 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 20:42:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 20:42:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3D8619C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3C8B19AEF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:42:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B75119B2D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9624319AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. In-Reply-To: <20031001074131.F8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rknkehfcusvbkddetxhygwuwhw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rknkehfcusvbkddetxhygwuwhw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few years ago I wrote a filterfs exclude files matching a regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in the past, there can be times when you need to effectively delete things from Venti. It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. Eric --upas-rknkehfcusvbkddetxhygwuwhw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.10]) by plan9; Wed Oct 1 01:47:33 EDT 2003 Received: from rusty.research.bell-labs.com (rusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.5]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h915lV0C057387 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by rusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h915lUAd085238 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A33019C94; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B7AC19C9B; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71CA219C94; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 764D819C84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h915fbef012271 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:40 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h915fYn5012270 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:34 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. Message-ID: <20031001074131.F8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <8a0a335a1266c14c62a1b5b805dd4079@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> <200310010539.h915d3j23173@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <200310010539.h915d3j23173@augusta.math.psu.edu>; from Dan Cross on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:39:03AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:39:03AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > > > > why not bind all the desired directories on somewhere, > > let's say /usr/web/webls for example, and make webls services > > only under the directory? > > > > these whatever.^(allowed denied) files remind me of unix somehow. > > Hmm, that's an idea. I'll think about it. My initial reaction is > that you'd have to do all the binds somewhere, and have a skeletal > directory structure under /usr/web/webls, which strikes me as tedious. > Still, I'll give it some thought. > Bind(1) does not have an "exclude" function that I can know of, which means that exclusions can only be effected by enumerating the inclusions. This can get extremely tedious. ++L --upas-rknkehfcusvbkddetxhygwuwhw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 20:55:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 20:55:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19068 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 20:55:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19064 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 20:55:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 20:55:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5C0819C75; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93B1A19C9D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84ECB19AE2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 685C519AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19105 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 11:54:14 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 11:54:14 -0000 Message-ID: <00b301c38813$0830fc10$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <75cd803eaaff86d53f52dddad60fe147@juice.thebigchoice.com> <00aa01c38803$b4b758e0$b9844051@insultant.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:56:15 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i don't find X useable at all. i just install sam and pretend it was 20 years ago and i was using a blit. tho i haven't found an xterm lookalike that is as useable as even 9term. featurism is endemic. i look at this screen and see drawterm and a lot of other useless crap, barking at me. i have no views on windor border colours. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border > > I only keep X at all for dual monitors and a web browser > > > > I didn't know twm did it but I know 9wm doesn't 8( > > twm did. you could 'fairly' easily beat into some sort of 8 1/2. > > when faced with X i just 'leave it alone', edit my .Xdefaults, > install sam and THAT'S IT. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 23:25:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 23:25:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22831 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 23:25:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22827 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 23:25:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 23:25:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9588B19CA1; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22D3E19C82; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6E8C19C9E; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idoru.mine.nu (cpc2-cdif1-6-0-cust172.cdif.cable.ntl.com [80.3.231.172]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D14D19C9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rasputin by idoru.mine.nu with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A4htl-0001BN-Pz for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:24:13 +0100 From: Rasputin To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031001142413.GA6395@lb.tenfour> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Rasputin List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:24:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm having trouble getting rio to start on my LifeBook (errors about no entries in vgadb - tried a few different colour depths, no joy). I've limped to the end of the install, and can now login as glenda. I figured if I could bring the box up to the latest version I might be able to get rio up later - Google seems to think i810 is supported(ish). Now, I'm a total newbie, I know my BSDs but I realise I'm not in Kansas anymore. I've looked over the wiki and install guide, which helped, but wondered if I could get a couple of pointers until I find my bearings: First off I need a text editor to get ndb configured, but sam seems to want to use a GUI (errors about $wsys)? Anything else I can use (preferably vi-ish but i'm not fussy at the moment as long as it's a step up from ed). Also each time I run man I get the whole page thrown at the terminal; should I have set a pager or something? The manpage for man is sadly too long to fit in my terminal :) I'm impressed with how much I can do with cat and echo, but a little nudge in the right direction would go a long wsy. Thanks a lot. -- "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" "Not where it counts, baby." -- goats Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 23:31:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 23:31:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22992 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 23:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22988 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 23:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 23:31:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEC7A19AF4; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02C9019CAD; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B369119CB0; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2973E19CA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <574760429920898f3805d1470f452a05@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: rasputin@idoru.mine.nu, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:29:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ed is the only non-gui editor. Sorry. "p" is the equivalent of "more". Run "man man|p". Most of the time the |p is unnecessary because of rio's scrolling mode. The man pages are also online at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/man/index.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 23:36:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 23:36:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23138 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 23:36:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23134 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 23:36:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 23:36:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8896219BF7; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F29E19CAD; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:36:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA51E19BF7; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5B219BDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h91EUbef013421 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:30:38 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h91EUatv013420 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:30:36 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20031001163034.U8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:30:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have now four copies of plan9-new.iso.bz2 with identical size and checksum. That last two are dated Can someone check and see if it also has the following characteristics: MD5 (plan9-new.iso.bz2) = 8d26235db284b44116e140bf8e27c9b8 -rw-r--r-- 1 lucio staff 70156273 Aug 11 01:44 plan9-new.iso.bz2 ? That would pretty old. It is meant to be: # An installation CD, but built from the current snapshot of sources.cs.bell-labs.com last night. The ``bleeding edge'' version. Can also be used to update your Plan 9 installation. Download, mount, and use replica/pull -v /dist/replica/cd. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 23:42:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 23:42:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23289 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 23:42:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23285 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 23:42:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 23:42:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 725F119CAE; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D862419CB6; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:42:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CB4019BF7; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9A9E19CAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85e83d82e479037bccfa881892d377e0@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20031001142413.GA6395@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:44:36 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > First off I need a text editor to get ndb configured, > but sam seems to want to use a GUI (errors about $wsys)? > Anything else I can use (preferably vi-ish but i'm not fussy at the > moment as long as it's a step up from ed). until you've got a GUI, your only options are ed or sam -d (which is similar in style). plan 9 gains a lot of simplicity by leaving all the tty emulation stuff out of the kernel and the initial console code. it useful to learn how to use ed anyway, for those "command-line-only moments). > Also each time I run man I get the whole page thrown > at the terminal; should I have set a pager or something? > The manpage for man is sadly too long to fit in my terminal :) man p hope this is the right sort of nudge! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 1 23:59:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 1 23:59:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23690 invoked by uid 1020); 1 Oct 2003 23:59:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23686 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 23:59:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 23:59:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9866F19CCD; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0A1C19CBA; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AD8C19C97; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96A9419BD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20e2ce348fa4946018e4fe761afe0a6e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 In-Reply-To: <20031001163034.U8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:58:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Yup, for some reason the cron job hasn't been copying in new versions. I'll copy one in and then figure out why. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:03:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:03:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23869 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23865 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:03:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45A8A19C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEF0219CAE; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:03:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 017C719B44; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7103A199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 In-Reply-To: <20031001163034.U8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:02:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Sorry, these are the files we're currently serving. achille% ls -l --rw-rw-rw- M 5401 sys adm 70503500 Sep 30 04:35 plan9-new.iso.bz2 --rw-rw-rw- M 5401 presotto adm 70168747 Aug 14 04:47 plan9.iso.bz2 achille% Neither looks like yours. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:06:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:06:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23937 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:06:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23933 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:06:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:06:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 012C319BD5; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75B5F19C80; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:06:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6ED8319A6D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4EA019AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2bc3f21020ad217e8d558a12aba9c8bb@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:04:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I take it back. I looked at the wrong file. The plan9.iso.bz2 was old but plan9-new.iso.bz2 is from last night. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:13:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:13:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23991 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:13:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23987 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:13:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:13:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 699A519A68; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B324819C80; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E743719BD5; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F11EE19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <1baaaf5b9996d13f681c862dd8d41439@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:11:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Only if your Plan 9 file system is the now-obsolete kfs. Is kfs really obsolete now? What about a laptop which is normally used standalone "on the road" and occasionally synchronised with the home fileserver? Is kfs still more suited to that environment, or would it be better to configure a fossil without venti backing? -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:15:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:15:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24015 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:15:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24011 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:15:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:15:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F9A419C53; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 112AC19CB1; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 952A719CBB; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB66E19B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <63e3baf7aeedf9c8580aaad00f8dfc4c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20031001142413.GA6395@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:14:22 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm having trouble getting rio to start on my LifeBook > (errors about no entries in vgadb - tried > a few different colour depths, no joy). what graphics card do you have? see the archives for anyone with a similar problem, and possibly a soluion :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:17:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:17:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24068 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:17:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24064 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:17:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:17:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4967E19CCB; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 676B519CBC; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:17:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E213919CB1; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F6219CBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0be8f41fe0b5efd9ba0d0323dd39b83f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hwvrairuqlbaryrekjmeevpjeb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:15:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hwvrairuqlbaryrekjmeevpjeb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My laptop is running a fossil, and the nice thing is that you get snapshots although I don't archive them. I use rm without thinking twice. --upas-hwvrairuqlbaryrekjmeevpjeb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Oct 1 17:13:35 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C5C919AF4; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B324819C80; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E743719BD5; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F11EE19A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <1baaaf5b9996d13f681c862dd8d41439@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:11:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Only if your Plan 9 file system is the now-obsolete kfs. Is kfs really obsolete now? What about a laptop which is normally used standalone "on the road" and occasionally synchronised with the home fileserver? Is kfs still more suited to that environment, or would it be better to configure a fossil without venti backing? -- Richard --upas-hwvrairuqlbaryrekjmeevpjeb-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:19:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:19:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24108 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24104 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:19:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E633F19B44; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AF3619CC0; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:19:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C083419CBC; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25E5219CC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is kfs really obsolete now? What about a laptop which is normally > used standalone "on the road" and occasionally synchronised with > the home fileserver? Is kfs still more suited to that environment, > or would it be better to configure a fossil without venti backing? If I were installing a new system, I would run fossil. If you run without venti backing you can still keep daily dumps (in /n/snap) and retire them as you need the disk space back. Even without any of that, fossil is much more resilient to being turned off abruptly, and it supports long file names. If you run fossil+venti, then it takes absolutely forever to fill up even a few gigabytes of Venti, and it's easy to back up the laptop by simply backing up the Venti server to another Venti server, incrementally. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:19:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:19:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24125 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:19:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24121 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:19:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:19:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD53619C97; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA84719CA2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:19:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 317EE19A75; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9833419B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:18:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I just went through the web pages and got a new version. It was the correct one. The current sums are: 79a9c85142d2d63e7178fb89f4ee53d5 plan9-new.iso.bz2 279d3731b0e909e98b46610320c351fc plan9.iso.bz2 I also just used the URL you included and got the same version. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:23:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:23:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24211 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:23:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24207 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:23:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:23:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7C2319C33; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08A4919CC0; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60E0F19B52; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0808619C24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h91FH4ef013587 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:17:07 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h91FH2CM013586 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:17:02 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 Message-ID: <20031001171700.W8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <2bc3f21020ad217e8d558a12aba9c8bb@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <2bc3f21020ad217e8d558a12aba9c8bb@plan9.bell-labs.com>; from David Presotto on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 11:04:57AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:17:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 11:04:57AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > I take it back. I looked at the wrong file. The plan9.iso.bz2 was old > but plan9-new.iso.bz2 is from last night. I'm sure both Russ and Dave are right and I'm missing something. It's hell of a time consuming task to download 70Megs, so I'm hoping someone else can confirm that the URL I posted in fact would fetch a newer version. One way or another I'm flummoxed. I use wget to submit a GET request: extract the URL for plan9-new.iso.bz2 from the returned document and submit that for collection. I forced wget to perform the fetch and the result was disappointing. A newer URL is the one I posted. And, yes, I suppose a public forum is an ugly place to post these things :-( ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24317 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:26:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24313 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:26:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:26:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9341D19B52; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 534A719CC7; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:26:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47E5B19C33; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7CC119B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h91FKcef013613 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:20:39 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h91FKbkX013612 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:20:37 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 Message-ID: <20031001172035.X8964@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: ; from David Presotto on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 11:18:28AM -0400 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:20:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 11:18:28AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > > I just went through the web pages and got a new version. It was the > correct one. > > The current sums are: > > 79a9c85142d2d63e7178fb89f4ee53d5 plan9-new.iso.bz2 > 279d3731b0e909e98b46610320c351fc plan9.iso.bz2 > > I also just used the URL you included and got the same version. Oh, well, I may as well do the same, then. I just wish I could fathom where wget finds the one I keep retrieving. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 00:54:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 00:54:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24814 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 00:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24810 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 00:54:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 00:54:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B424319C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE93819CBA; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:54:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A670F19C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9 (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E7A519C53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ab6ddd4f3546ad1f530a19e4bc6cee4@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Static plan9-new.iso.bz2 From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:53:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Took me a while to figure it out. You're using the wrong URL. 9down4e2 is the link we used to try the new fossil version of the release before making it the official one. Perhaps we gave you the link or perhaps you got in before I'ld changed all the new links from 9down4e2 back to 9down4e. Either way, if you change your initial URL to you'll be fine. Also, I should disable the 9down4e2 stuff till we next do a new distribution. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 01:18:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 01:18:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25227 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 01:18:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25223 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 01:18:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 01:18:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 012F119CDC; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A7DA19C53; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:18:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 248E319C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2461E199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91GGtXx017073 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:16:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91GGto3019527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:16:55 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91GGt7W031713 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:16:55 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:16:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) w.r.t fossil and configuration a machine. Say I have a 4 gB partition disk. Do I make the whole disk 'plan9' and put (e.g.) fossil on 2 gB, venti on 2 GB? Or do I make 'plan9' 2 gB and plan to put venti on the other 2 gB? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 01:18:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 01:18:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25234 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 01:18:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25230 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 01:18:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 01:18:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3E8119B35; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C69D19CC6; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:18:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A13F519BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE64219B31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16725 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h91GHMj25569 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310011617.h91GHMj25569@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:41:41 EDT." <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:17:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Eric Grosse writes: > A few years ago I wrote a filterfs exclude files matching a > regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing > part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in > the past, there can be times when you need to effectively > delete things from Venti. > > It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm > willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. Yeah, go for it. It sounds interesting, if nothing else.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 01:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 01:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25662 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 01:40:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25658 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 01:40:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 01:40:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AF7319A81; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECC0E19C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF76219A9A; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC68A19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3bf4d3f39cb2ab57f509a57a62f4d6c6@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:38:23 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If I were installing a new system, I would run fossil. > [... good reasons deleted] OK, I'm sold. But I find the concept of backing up a venti server onto another venti server makes my brain hurt. - if you lost the venti partition on the laptop, how would you restore it from the other server? - looking at /sys/src/cmd/venti/backup.example why do you have to subtract blockSize from the arena offset? -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 01:44:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 01:44:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25753 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 01:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25749 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 01:44:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 01:44:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AB3D19AB1; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FE7919C53; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:44:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 545A519A81; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE63F199D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3bf4d3f39cb2ab57f509a57a62f4d6c6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kyhfpwkdteppabcxzxzilhwmdg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:43:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kyhfpwkdteppabcxzxzilhwmdg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO, if you run fossil in your laptop you usually make it archive on your venti file server, which is supossed to be reliable and backed up (eg. by using devfs). If you run both a laptop and a real file server, I've found it useful to keep a fossil with just snapshots (no archives) in the laptop and keep it replica(1)ted from your real file server, that makes archives too. hth --upas-kyhfpwkdteppabcxzxzilhwmdg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Oct 1 18:40:36 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F2AD19A65; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECC0E19C24; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF76219A9A; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC68A19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3bf4d3f39cb2ab57f509a57a62f4d6c6@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:38:23 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If I were installing a new system, I would run fossil. > [... good reasons deleted] OK, I'm sold. But I find the concept of backing up a venti server onto another venti server makes my brain hurt. - if you lost the venti partition on the laptop, how would you restore it from the other server? - looking at /sys/src/cmd/venti/backup.example why do you have to subtract blockSize from the arena offset? -- Richard --upas-kyhfpwkdteppabcxzxzilhwmdg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 03:30:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 03:30:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28027 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 03:30:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28023 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 03:30:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 03:30:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A74AA19BF5; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B597219C7F; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:30:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05CC119BF5; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37EFA19AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h91ISbp71387; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:28:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <3bf4d3f39cb2ab57f509a57a62f4d6c6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:28:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > - if you lost the venti partition on the laptop, how would > you restore it from the other server? you'd venti/copy the latest root hash you had, and that would get you the entire history of your laptop fossil. > - looking at /sys/src/cmd/venti/backup.example why do you > have to subtract blockSize from the arena offset? because the code is sloppy about exactly what the arena offset means. in the c code the arena base typically points just after the header, but when you set up an arena by pointing venti at a particular location on disk, you have to give it the pointer to the beginning of the header. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 03:30:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 03:30:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28034 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 03:30:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28030 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 03:30:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 03:30:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10CC419C94; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FC2919C9D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:30:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A145919B03; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6BFA19B93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h91ITWp71458; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:29:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:29:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Say I have a 4 gB partition disk. Do I make the whole disk 'plan9' and put > (e.g.) fossil on 2 gB, venti on 2 GB? Or do I make 'plan9' 2 gB and plan > to put venti on the other 2 gB? you can do whatever you want. i find it nicer to make plan9 the whole disk because then i can use arbitrary names for the subpartitions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 04:29:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 04:29:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29346 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 04:29:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29342 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 04:29:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 04:29:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BC7119B09; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21E2119B2C; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44B8D19B04; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E1AD19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <574292-2429>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:27:33 -0400 Message-ID: <01e301c38851$fef05e40$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <85e83d82e479037bccfa881892d377e0@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:27:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ed(1) is the last line of defence. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 04:32:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 04:32:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29525 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29521 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 04:32:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4B5C19CD0; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F02419BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:32:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E23A19B71; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FACE19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <235690-13993>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:29:54 -0400 Message-ID: <01f501c38852$533e6640$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:29:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is kfs really obsolete now? What about a laptop which is normally > used standalone "on the road" and occasionally synchronised with > the home fileserver? Is kfs still more suited to that environment, > or would it be better to configure a fossil without venti backing? i guess kfs was a jump start. a long time ago i was talking to honeyman about how he could sync with AFS once he got off the road and back 'home'. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 06:19:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 06:19:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31529 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 06:19:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31525 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 06:19:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 06:19:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F00119B74; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AC2E19BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:19:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF5D219AD8; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.32]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2F646199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-74-13-111.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.13.111 with plain) by smtp1.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 20:25:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3F7B462F.10203@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:25:03 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hey all, Does anyone have a manual for the MB86903 SPARC CPU? I have two SPARCstation IPX with this CPU in them and I'd love more information. Fujitsu isn't taking my requests seriously. I'm pretty sure when I called the labs yesterday that the secretary pretended to take down my phone number. :-| Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Debug period. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 06:24:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 06:24:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31673 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 06:24:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31669 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 06:24:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 06:24:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68A7E19AE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5455C19BE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:24:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C62D319B74; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DFDB19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629825A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:24:22 +0100 (WEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <71B50E63-F455-11D7-89ED-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] ati radeon support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:23:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi there, I was trying to boot Plan9 on my laptop which has a ATI Radeon Mobility 7500 which doesn't seem to be supported. Is there any support or work being done in Radeon support for Plan9? My card pci is 1002/4c57. Hugo Santos From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 07:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 07:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32264 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 07:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32260 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 07:02:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 07:02:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED63719BE2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 658DD19A0D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DF3C19B20; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B20519A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <71B50E63-F455-11D7-89ED-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:01:43 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Hi there, > > I was trying to boot Plan9 on my laptop which has a ATI Radeon Mobility > 7500 which doesn't seem to be supported. > Is there any support or work being done in Radeon support for Plan9? > My card pci is 1002/4c57. > > Hugo Santos Philippe Anel has written the radeon driver: http://mapage.noos.fr/philippe.anel/plan9rxxx.html unfortunately the current drivers don't support the 7500 (which iswhat I have, same as yours). I provided him with as much info as possible on on the model as I could (or as he needed) some time ago... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 07:33:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 07:33:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 660 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 07:33:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 656 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 07:33:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 07:33:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59C7F19AAB; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA2919B4D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:33:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C13419A81; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 598A4199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91MW6Xx020999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:32:06 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91MW5o3005536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:32:05 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h91MW47W014508 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:32:04 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <01e301c38851$fef05e40$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:32:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > ed(1) is the last line of defence. as such, I think it's the first thing you should learn, esp. regex. I'm actually grateful that I had to spend a few years with only ed, as it continues to save my life from time to time. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 08:13:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 08:13:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1438 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 08:13:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1434 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 08:13:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 08:13:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5B9C19C3B; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B45919AE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C4D119AE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88E0D19AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <231513-14005>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:11:14 -0400 Message-ID: <031701c38871$3e92dcc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 01:10:44 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > ed(1) is the last line of defence. > > as such, I think it's the first thing you should learn, ... i meant that given i did most of my comp sci with ed it's a damn useful tool/skill to have. eventually, in 3rd year i started to use vi and read/hacked some of the code -- the horror, the horror ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 09:49:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 09:49:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6091 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 09:49:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6087 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 09:49:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 09:49:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AE1319AE2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 095BC19B67; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBFAD19AEF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C01119AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20031001142413.GA6395@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:49:43 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I might be able to get rio up later - Google seems to think i810 is > supported(ish). I sent i81x driver, and it is included in the sources tree. However, I don't know wheather you can get that binary version. Some daya ago, Teege from Germany asked another vga which I also updated, and reported it didn't work. I was much confused why that can be happen if he has the same ID card to mine. Then, I sent my sources, and asked him. Are those same to that you have? His answer was no. Then, I decided I will not send sources to them. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 09:55:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 09:55:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6427 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 09:55:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6423 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 09:55:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 09:55:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4AB719C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C8C219C33; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:55:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C763819BE2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9147419AEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ce025363bb9db95d5b2ef0f99107f29@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:55:03 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I have, same as yours). I provided him with as much info as possible > on on the model as I could (or as he needed) some time ago... I'm not Philippe, however, I think it's very hard to write vga dirver when the developper has no access to that very card. Those things sometimes does not behave as written. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 11:30:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 11:30:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11387 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 11:30:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11063 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 11:24:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 11:24:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6917519A6D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C73C219BDD; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:24:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3EB619A80; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (postoffice02.Princeton.EDU [128.112.130.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F415219A6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.148]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h922NJek017213 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Princeton.EDU (lane.Princeton.EDU [128.112.52.125]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpserver2.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h922NDf9002528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F7B8C11.6090503@Princeton.EDU> From: Martin Harriss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! References: <3F7B462F.10203@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 22:23:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Wouldn't a SPARC achitecture manual suffice? (Mine's at work so I can't check to see if it contains anything specific about the device in question...) Martin northern snowfall wrote: > Hey all, > Does anyone have a manual for the MB86903 SPARC > CPU? I have two SPARCstation IPX with this CPU in them and > I'd love more information. > > Fujitsu isn't taking my requests seriously. I'm > pretty sure when I called the labs yesterday that the > secretary pretended to take down my phone number. > > :-| > > Don > > http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ > > Debug period. > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 11:33:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 11:33:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11735 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 11:33:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11731 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 11:33:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 11:33:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8CA419A00; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2E8F19BF8; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:33:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7131119AD8; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D2C019A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dtmvenxnrigcerihszvkcloqeu" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:33:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dtmvenxnrigcerihszvkcloqeu Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I shoud have been more verbose on this. I sent those drivers with the wish some new commer to Plan 9 will face hardware problem, if I don't send the drivers. Therefore, I expect the binaries for those drivers are also included in the primary distribution, which may be CDROM... Kenji --upas-dtmvenxnrigcerihszvkcloqeu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp; Thu Oct 2 09:50:37 JST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3p2/3.7W-03092514) with ESMTP id JAA19205 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:49:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AE1319AE2; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 095BC19B67; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBFAD19AEF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C01119AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20031001142413.GA6395@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:49:43 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I might be able to get rio up later - Google seems to think i810 is > supported(ish). I sent i81x driver, and it is included in the sources tree. However, I don't know wheather you can get that binary version. Some daya ago, Teege from Germany asked another vga which I also updated, and reported it didn't work. I was much confused why that can be happen if he has the same ID card to mine. Then, I sent my sources, and asked him. Are those same to that you have? His answer was no. Then, I decided I will not send sources to them. Kenji --upas-dtmvenxnrigcerihszvkcloqeu-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 12:34:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 12:34:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14329 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 12:34:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14314 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 12:34:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 12:34:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C37119C56; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0334B19C46; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 621C819AE9; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.36]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3E2D519B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-74-13-111.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.13.111 with plain) by smtp1.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 03:33:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3F7BAA86.6080007@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! References: <3F7B462F.10203@ameritech.net> <3F7B8C11.6090503@Princeton.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:33:10 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Wouldn't a SPARC architecture manual suffice? (Mine's at work so I > can't check to see if it contains anything specific about the device > in question...) Yes and no. The SPARC architecture defines the generic rules for designing a SPARCv8 implementation, but does leave much up to the designer. For example: + MMU implementation can be either the SPARC reference MMU or an implementation of the designer's choice. The capability of the MMU has a huge impact on the design of supervisor code, obviously. + Ancillary registers for implementation specific functionality are left up to the designer as to use + much Coprocessor/FPU functionality is implementation dependent. The MB86903 has an onboard FPU, but I have no details on its specific capability. There are other important facets that are implementation specific and not bound to choices defined in the manual. Of course, the general functionality of this SPARC CPU is v8 compatible. However, I'd love to know what else the item is capable of. For example, the IPX that were shipped with the Weitek CPU have an AT&T MMU on the board. My IPX seem to have an LSI chip where the AT&T MMU should be. I'm assuming this means the LSI WK34430P is the MMU, but I don't know for sure. Google isn't pulling any info. Also, this CPU is SPARCv7, which makes me even more interested in specifics. Don http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_ Debug period. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 12:55:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 12:55:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15122 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 12:55:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15118 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 12:55:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 12:55:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0072F19C6C; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07F7419C79; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:55:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DADF619BF8; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 01A7019B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8554 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 03:53:59 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 03:53:59 -0000 Message-ID: <037501c38899$1c0d66c0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3F7B462F.10203@ameritech.net> <3F7B8C11.6090503@Princeton.EDU> <3F7BAA86.6080007@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:54:54 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I hope this is correct and useful. SPARCstation: 2 IPX ELC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROCESSOR Fujitsu MB86903 Fujitsu MB86903 CPU CY7C601 or Weitek W8701 or Weitek W8701 CPU (clock) 40 40 33 FPU TI TMS390C601A on CPU chip on CPU chip MMU Sun-4c Sun-4c sun-4c Hard. Contexts 16 8 8 other stuff at http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_hardware/hwref1.html > Yes and no. The SPARC architecture defines the generic rules > for designing a SPARCv8 implementation, but does leave much up > to the designer. For example: > > + MMU implementation can be either the SPARC reference MMU > or an implementation of the designer's choice. The capability > of the MMU has a huge impact on the design of supervisor code, > obviously. > > + Ancillary registers for implementation specific functionality > are left up to the designer as to use > > + much Coprocessor/FPU functionality is implementation dependent. > The MB86903 has an onboard FPU, but I have no details on its > specific capability. > etc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 13:08:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 13:08:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15801 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 13:08:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15797 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 13:08:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 13:08:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B2EF19C45; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 122C019C5B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35A8A19A7C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E89C219A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9247fXx010111 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:07:41 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9247eSa000474 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:07:40 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9247e7W023401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:07:40 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! In-Reply-To: <3F7B8C11.6090503@Princeton.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:07:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Martin Harriss wrote: > Wouldn't a SPARC achitecture manual suffice? (Mine's at work so I can't > check to see if it contains anything specific about the device in > question...) no, the arch manual is pretty useless if you're going to port an OS. That is by design. Ask anybody who tried to get BSD on this thing (or any SPARC for that matter) ca. 10 years ago. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:06:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:06:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25127 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:06:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25123 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:06:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:06:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B7E419C76; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA96919C6B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:06:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DB4619B00; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2B3D19C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <232544-13994>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:04:44 -0400 Message-ID: <04ae01c388b3$63e3c1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:04:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) a story i heard is that if you took a fault during a FP operation you were in a world of pain and they Sun were not gonna tell you how to code around it. you needed internel sun docs/code. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25741 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:17:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25737 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:17:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:17:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FD2119C89; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F005719C79; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:17:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EC8819C56; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.32]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9FBC919A9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-74-13-111.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.13.111 with plain) by smtp1.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 07:15:49 -0000 Message-ID: <3F7BDE97.9000006@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! References: <04ae01c388b3$63e3c1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 03:15:19 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > >you needed internel sun docs/code. > Tee hee... twenty# mount givingtree:/archive /mnt twenty# cd /mnt/os/source twenty# ls -F Solaris/. SunOS/. Solaris/.: 2.5/ 2.6/ 2.7/ 2.8/ SunOS/.: 4.1.3/ 4.1.4/ twenty# From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:18:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:18:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25769 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:18:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25765 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:18:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:18:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E64DE19C9A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92BA519C75; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:18:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB5FE19C7D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.36]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 791D119C1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-68-74-13-111.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net (HELO ameritech.net) (dbailey27@ameritech.net@68.74.13.111 with plain) by smtp1.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 07:17:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3F7BDEE2.3060109@ameritech.net> From: northern snowfall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020518 Netscape6/6.2.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! References: <04ae01c388b3$63e3c1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 03:16:34 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Just kiddin ;-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:47:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:47:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27388 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:47:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27380 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:47:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:47:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D22D6199E3; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BEE719C56; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E90F19A2C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C47C199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h927kSfo003467 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:46:28 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Thread-Index: AcOIccT/SZEjnuOXQaWn1tIdTrNxyQARz/ig From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:46:23 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >eventually, in 3rd year i started to use vi and read/hacked >some of the code -- the horror, the horror ... mm, i've heard before that vi' source code is . it (vi) must've made a world of difference back then, tho. who wrote it, anyway? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:51:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:51:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27544 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:51:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27540 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:51:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:51:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87B4319C1C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18CA619C6B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:51:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6969119A7C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx01.netapp.com (mx01.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DF37199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01.netapp.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id h927nw4Z025754 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from place.org ([192.168.75.247]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/NTAP-1.5) with ESMTP id h927nvCV023835 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F7BD8A5.7010801@place.org> From: Stephen Wynne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:49:57 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Bill Joy wrote vi, of course. And the C-shell. 'Nuff said. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 16:55:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 16:55:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27766 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 16:55:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27762 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 16:55:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 16:55:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EA05199E3; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 967A819C6B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD167199E3; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7225199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <561631-2417>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 03:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: <068a01c388ba$22e47d00$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:52:28 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > it (vi) must've made a world of difference back then, tho. > who wrote it, anyway? pretty sure joy smashed 'ex' into horton's curses (how aptly named). ask any vi fan how ~ was implemented. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 17:22:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 17:22:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28977 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 17:22:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28973 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 17:22:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 17:22:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 167A819AB6; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9362619C55; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:22:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 960E719AEF; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBE6919AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM400901EPU0B@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:11:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.4.17]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM4007A4ERDXC@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:11:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (cgrothau@localhost) by mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_28810)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00373 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:11:36 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-reply-to: "Your message of Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:01:43 MDT." To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <200310020811.KAA00373@mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:11:36 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The driver already works with the Radeon Mobility 7500, when you connect a CRT to the laptop. What's missing yet is just LCD/DFP support. Phillipe mailed me a while ago that he's working on it, but I can imagine it's ungrateful work when there are differences from card to card... Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 17:26:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 17:26:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29091 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 17:26:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29084 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 17:26:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 17:26:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 562C119AE1; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6AA219C6B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:26:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF59419C1C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0306B19AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <097974ce49ab884fbdddff5ae115380f@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9load and 9fat From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:24:34 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> - if you lost the venti partition on the laptop, how would >> you restore it from the other server? > > you'd venti/copy the latest root hash you had, and that > would get you the entire history of your laptop fossil. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic ... very nice. >> - looking at /sys/src/cmd/venti/backup.example why do you >> have to subtract blockSize from the arena offset? > > ... in the c code the arena > base typically points just after the header ... Got it. Unfortunately the example script doesn't work for me because my arena blocksize is not the same as the index blocksize. That's what I get for not sticking to default values. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 17:37:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 17:37:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29607 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 17:37:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29603 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 17:37:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 17:37:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A571319AE1; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6DE819C76; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:37:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41CE719AE1; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.88]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9661E19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) id <0HM400101F9U42@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:30:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.15 (built Apr 28 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HM400708FNJXC@mail1.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:30:56 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-reply-to: <200310020811.KAA00373@mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <262316525aa5b44cf3c9a63e4e839f84@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:31:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > LCD/DFP support. Phillipe mailed me a while ago that he's s/Phillipe/Philippe/ I'm sorry! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 18:03:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 18:03:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30651 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 18:03:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30647 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 18:03:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 18:03:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D009419A23; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6175019C7A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:03:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8344919C76; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 881CB19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 05:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! In-Reply-To: <3F7BDE97.9000006@ameritech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:58:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ./sys/src/9.95/ss in /extra/sun.tgz on sources drives the sparcstation 2 but i think it handled some varieties of IPX as well. if you've got a microsparc-based Sun it will be closer to the LX/Classic, and you can get the lx.tgz from my own web site. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 2 22:59:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 2 22:59:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7129 invoked by uid 1020); 2 Oct 2003 22:59:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7125 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 22:59:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 22:59:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B497919AA9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 451D219BB0; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:59:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5617419A80; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5653819AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92DwHXx006670 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:58:17 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92DwGPK000367 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:58:16 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92DwD7W004177 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:58:13 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rub your feet on the carpet! In-Reply-To: <04ae01c388b3$63e3c1a0$b9844051@insultant.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:58:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > a story i heard is that if you took a fault during a FP operation > you were in a world of pain and they Sun were not gonna tell > you how to code around it. you needed internel sun docs/code. or just ask about the MMU on the classic ... or ... the list is long, Sun's attitude hard to figure out. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 01:40:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 01:40:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11856 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 01:40:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11852 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 01:40:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 01:40:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FBD519A7B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03A6519A85; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 173B319A7A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A63A19A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id E7261CD70; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Message-ID: <20031002163936.GC3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> <3F7BD8A5.7010801@place.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F7BD8A5.7010801@place.org> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:39:36 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:49:57AM -0700, Stephen Wynne wrote: > Bill Joy wrote vi, of course. And the C-shell. 'Nuff said. Him? He's harmless. Back in the '70s he was part of the CSRG at Berkeley; I think he did a little too much LDS. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 02:27:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 02:27:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13027 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 02:27:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13023 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 02:27:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 02:27:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 371E219980; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 998A319A89; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:27:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA1E219A0B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3974019980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luchie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.185.65]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A57D4-000NYX-0Z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:25:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3F7C5F65.4000604@luchie.demon.co.uk> From: David Lukes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> <3F7BD8A5.7010801@place.org> <20031002163936.GC3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> In-Reply-To: <20031002163936.GC3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:24:53 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Him? He's harmless. Back in the '70s he was part of the CSRG at Berkeley; >I think he did a little too much LDS. > > Bill Joy was a Mormon? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 02:31:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 02:31:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13177 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 02:31:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13173 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 02:31:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 02:31:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA13919AC2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C0EF19AB2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:31:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2FD319AC1; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E44CC19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A577s-0002NC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:20:28 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Manuel Simoni Message-ID: Organization: Customers chello Austria Subject: [9fans] Geforce 4 MX 420 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:19:54 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Last time I tried it didn't work, but the required hardware page has changed... Does anyone know if it works? Thanks Manuel Simoni From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 03:14:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 03:14:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13891 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 03:14:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13887 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 03:14:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 03:14:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51CB019A73; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68C6819AAB; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:14:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0433919A8C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BFE019A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20031002163936.GC3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:13:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu Oct 2 12:40:56 EDT 2003, splite@purdue.edu wrote: > On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:49:57AM -0700, Stephen Wynne wrote: > > Bill Joy wrote vi, of course. And the C-shell. 'Nuff said. > > Him? He's harmless. Back in the '70s he was part of the CSRG at Berkeley; > I think he did a little too much LDS. When Joy announced last month that he was leaving Sun, the following 2 articles from The Register lovefest give you an idea of how he is regarded, and what he gets credit for, in some circles (but not by anyone I know). http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/32732.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/32780.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 03:20:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 03:20:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13999 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 03:20:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13995 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 03:20:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 03:20:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C59C719AD2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4709B19A8B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C003119A9D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C61D719A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92IJ6Xx017155 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:19:06 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92IJ6Sa002164 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:19:06 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h92IJ67W014444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:19:06 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:19:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Joy was one of the first Rock Star OS guys. At 1982 or so Usenix they were handing out 'The Joy of Unix' badges. Now it's Linus. Wonder who's next? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 03:57:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 03:57:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14754 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14750 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D66C519AC2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 474EA19AD5; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:57:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 479CD19A1C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F2B619A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CC45A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:58:05 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200310020811.KAA00373@mitch.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> Message-Id: <2A5AD64E-F50A-11D7-89ED-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:56:43 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Shouldn't there be support for 'standard' VESA 2.0 if native support isn't available? That way "all" the unsupported cards/chips would at least have (poor slow) graphics. Hugo On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 09:11 AM, Christian Grothaus wrote: > The driver already works with the Radeon Mobility 7500, when > you connect a CRT to the laptop. What's missing yet is just > LCD/DFP support. Phillipe mailed me a while ago that he's > working on it, but I can imagine it's ungrateful work when > there are differences from card to card... > > Christian > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 04:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 04:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14949 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 04:08:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14945 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 04:08:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 04:08:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8451919AD2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20B4319AFC; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E585B19A96; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 146DE19A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2c6c628b9dfa5810de450e0179f33030@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <2A5AD64E-F50A-11D7-89ED-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:07:16 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Shouldn't there be support for 'standard' VESA 2.0 if native support > isn't available? That way "all" the unsupported cards/chips would at > least have (poor slow) graphics. > nobody cared enough to write it, though it has been discussed on the list many times: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=VESA&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.plan9 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 05:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 05:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16663 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16659 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 05:38:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F94419A86; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D9319AE9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3602419A8C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94AB119A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1c23693f9d92d8dc332e201a133435b8@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:37:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) what joy? the tape copier? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:05:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:05:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17219 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17215 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:05:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B15F719A7B; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40E1619AF7; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86AE8199E3; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B703219AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <2296194-21058>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:03:21 -0400 Message-ID: <07e801c38928$8935afc0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> <3F7BD8A5.7010801@place.org> <20031002163936.GC3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> <3F7C5F65.4000604@luchie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:02:32 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Bill Joy was a Mormon? s/rm/r/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:08:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:08:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17253 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:08:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17249 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:08:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:08:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14C1519AF2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E434419AE9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:08:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C8D219AD5; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECA1519A26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <07e801c38928$8935afc0$b9844051@insultant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:06:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Bill was/is many things but moron is not one of them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:12:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:12:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17364 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:12:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17360 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:12:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:12:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F3E619B3F; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20A4719B03; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7911919AEF; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 007AA19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id BC6F1CD70; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:11:16 -0500 (EST) From: boydomatic To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Message-ID: <20031002211116.GD3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <07e801c38928$8935afc0$b9844051@insultant.net> <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:11:16 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 05:06:54PM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > Bill was/is many things but moron is not one of them. anyone who goes around unarmed is a moron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:13:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:13:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17462 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:13:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17457 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:13:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:13:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4450819AE9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 646C919B43; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:13:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E7E719AF7; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FD1B199E3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <342525-31259>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:11:52 -0400 Message-ID: <07f301c38929$b946df80$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:11:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What happened is that Ken Thompson came to Berkeley and brought this broken Pascal system, and we got this summer job to fix it. While we were fixing it, we got frustrated with the editor we were using which was named ed. ed is certainly frustrating. err yes, i remember doing assignments in 'pi' and hacking in procedures (etc ...) that were basically threads. not all my work. strangely enough one of the guys who did a lot of the work was killed in 9/11. another one of those (somewhat less annoying) australians. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:15:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:15:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17479 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:15:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17475 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:15:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:15:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08E5219B03; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7150E19B35; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:15:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A06A919A31; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C56A619AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <577908-14599>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:14:09 -0400 Message-ID: <07f901c3892a$0ad3f2c0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:13:34 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Joy was one of the first Rock Star OS guys. At 1982 or so Usenix they were > handing out 'The Joy of Unix' badges. ahh yes, i remember a usenix (in SFO) where i could here this voice flaming this guy to death. it was honeyman -- we had a fun time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:23:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:23:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17583 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:23:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17579 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:23:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:23:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D6CA19A9D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F0AC19B26; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:23:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D1A619AF7; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 605F919988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <258782-21064>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:21:26 -0400 Message-ID: <082701c3892b$0fd19ba0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:20:52 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Bill was/is many things but moron is not one of them. perhaps, but when you write a 'C shell' and get the mc carthy (sp?) and/or ops 'round the wrong way, well ... give me duff's rc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:25:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:25:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17608 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:25:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17604 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:25:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:25:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7713F19B9E; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A95EF19B69; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:25:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A81FB19B4A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D91B819988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <721311-25587>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:23:18 -0400 Message-ID: <083101c3892b$51e27320$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <07e801c38928$8935afc0$b9844051@insultant.net> <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20031002211116.GD3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:22:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > anyone who goes around unarmed is a moron since when did boyd or his 'boydomatic' go around armed? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 06:52:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 06:52:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18310 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 06:52:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18296 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 06:52:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 06:52:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B173519A33; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCFA519B2D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A81D19AFD; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D97519A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <916bbab4b6aaad3c21edca96091c2240@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spamoff -- rasining the bar Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:51:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_00_10,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i had a thought to use fortune to randomise and hide the md5 to make it harder for any spammer stupid enough to try and defeat spamoff. i have a nastier idea: add a spam/flak-trap at insultant.net which is a list of names which is linked from a page that says 'here are people i like and their email addresses'. BUT, on the page there just a list ('hidden' as a
    ') of names which will generate a bunch of false positives for the harvesters or a lotta work trying to find out which 'john j. doe' by a a human harvester -- NO email addresses. i might do both tonight. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 10:24:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 10:24:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26249 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 10:23:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26227 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 10:23:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 10:23:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4456919AF2; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C925419B5C; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:23:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2347E19B3F; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 454A919AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coma ([81.64.132.185]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <4407186-27393>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:19:23 -0400 Message-ID: <08c801c3894c$4cfd62e0$b9844051@insultant.net> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <07e801c38928$8935afc0$b9844051@insultant.net> <774075214afad63e3b71411fcf2f1062@plan9.bell-labs.com> <20031002211116.GD3954@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:18:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > anyone who goes around unarmed is a moron anyone who goes around armed is a moron, or leaves their weapons lying around is a moron. this is not virginia, toto. the 'cooling off period here' is _at least_ a year, after belonging to a range, passing a test (in french), 6 month wait, 3 month application period and any firearm must be kept in a safe; mine has a key/token and a code. not only is it the the LAW, it's not a bad idea. btw: part of the 3 months is checking around the psych hospitals to verify that you've spent no time in one. bbtw. this is way OT, but you _do not_ fuck around with firearms. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 10:25:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 10:25:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26400 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 10:25:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26396 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 10:25:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 10:25:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D82819B4A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0C1519BB6; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:25:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 225FC19B4A; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IS.NOVELL.COM (unknown [192.233.80.128]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77FF319B31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from novell.com not authenticated [137.65.81.123] by IS.NOVELL.COM with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.9 $ on Novell NetWare; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:29:24 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: GWAVA Notification Service From: "GWAVA" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [GWAVA:sheta7nd] Body text filter message notification Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:23:57 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is an automated Notification e-mail message from GWAVA. The message you sent, from the address 9fans@cse.psu.edu to [No To Addresses] Concerning: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Was not delivered because it contained content not accepted by the e-mail system in use at the intended recipient's organization. The message contained the following text: %%FilterContent From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 11:29:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 11:29:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29542 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 11:29:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29537 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 11:29:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 11:29:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E14E819AEF; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E8C919B31; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:29:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D764D19AA9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4550919AF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <116d662d03e096fc1e529c4a1fe1b37c@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [GWAVA:sheta7nd] Body text filter message notification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:27:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this guy is annoying me. time to up the ante and tell him to spamoff ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 11:41:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 11:41:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30130 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 11:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30126 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 11:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 11:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF74F19A9D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E4C019B2D; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC99F19AA9; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AA6219A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [GWAVA:sheta7nd] Body text filter message notification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:40:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hmm, this could be some unstable sumbitch, we had better watch our fucking step -- bouncing stuff leading to loops :( i'm with ron, we wither import /mail or shut 'em down at the smtp level or do some sort of auth. the import of /mail has a certain elegance and simplicity about it. this will require thought ... and maybe a lot of Zep on DVD. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 17:46:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 17:46:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16589 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 17:46:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16585 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 17:46:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 17:46:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0418F19AA7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27C7D19B51; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B6DEC19AA7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E520C19AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A5LXd-0003aK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3F7CA907.8C9F61@null.net> Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <2A5AD64E-F50A-11D7-89ED-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net>, <2c6c628b9dfa5810de450e0179f33030@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:43:43 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > nobody cared enough to write it, though it has been discussed on the > list many times: Of course the ironic thing is that Plan 9 really doesn't need more than VESA provides; all those 3D graphics features of today's cards are being wasted under Plan 9. A single VESA driver would have prevented having to keep hacking drivers for each new card. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 17:54:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 17:54:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16874 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 17:54:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16869 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 17:54:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 17:54:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0993919AB9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6732E19B6F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A5D219ABF; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B46BA19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [GWAVA:sheta7nd] Body text filter message notification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:53:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think this one is now a KIA too :) i'm just waiting for the next attempt ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 17:56:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 17:56:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16988 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 17:56:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16984 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 17:56:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 17:56:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3384519B93; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7104119BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:56:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 765E019ABA; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0A8619AA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86dd9d2d7f12e52a313a5faf8ed4e854@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] [GWAVA:sheta7nd] Body text filter message notification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:55:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is now KIA From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:01:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:01:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17163 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:01:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17159 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:01:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:01:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1532119BB6; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02B5319BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:01:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2990519B3F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DF7519A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A5LYb-0003bu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:45:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: kim kubik Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:44:11 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rminnich@lanl.gov (ron minnich) wrote in message > Joy was one of the first Rock Star OS guys. At 1982 or so Usenix they were > handing out 'The Joy of Unix' badges. > my admittedly weak memory is that the badges read 'The Joy of SUN', being handed out at to announce that he had joined the new company. Lore around this time as well was that HP had given Joy a large sum of cash to port Unix to a 32-bit microprocessor they had developed, the thing sat in a chunk of solid gold the size of a kitchen tile, necessary as a heat sink. A workstation based on it may have actually shipped a couple of units. Anyhow, all this supposedly kept him from getting back across the Bay to UCB to complete his PhD. - k From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:05:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:05:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17268 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:05:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17264 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:05:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:05:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBF1419BB0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC3519BD0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D22619A8B; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D780119B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a0629550e4fa85cef9e27094e7ab321@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:04:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) gold sounds bad. copper or silver are better heat conductors, right? but the gold may have been there for other purposes ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:09:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:09:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17451 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:09:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17447 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:09:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:09:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 414D519BFB; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA90C19BEB; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:09:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E319419BC1; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3A4219A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h93988eC017485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:08:08 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] ati radeon support X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7A@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] ati radeon support Thread-Index: AcOJiutW4Fpj7V+OQWWjou1Z0TKuMAAAfYEg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:07:58 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > A single VESA driver would have >prevented having to keep hacking drivers for each new card. No wonder nobody has written a VESA driver -- VESA is loathsome.=20 You only have a 64K (or maybe even less) sliding window into the=20 framebuffer; to do any real work you need to regularly engage in "bank switching", which is *slow*. Not to mention all the real-mode 16-bit interupt goo. Yuck. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:12:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:12:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17630 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:12:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17626 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:12:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:12:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 403D619BF7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70D4619BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB20619BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8272319BEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h939BDNg017522 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:11:13 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7B@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Thread-Index: AcOJjZ7v3lrUZxBkQGeaZceigqnYJQAAFjFg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:11:03 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >gold sounds bad. copper or silver are better heat conductors, right? nope. gold beats them both in all kinds of conductivities, just to be=20 beaten to death in the same game by platinum. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:17:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:17:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17877 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:17:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17873 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:17:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:17:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF92619A8B; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E38D019BD0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:17:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1270E19B3F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (SIGBUS.nove.bg [212.50.27.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4F6219A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SIGBUS.nove.bg (chervarium@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by SIGBUS.nove.bg (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h939H9sI049991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:17:12 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from chervarium@SIGBUS.nove.bg) Message-Id: <200310030917.h939H9sI049991@SIGBUS.nove.bg> From: Atanas Bachvaroff Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7A@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-424238335-1065172633=:42213" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:17:03 +0300 (EEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --0-424238335-1065172633=:42213 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii On 3 Oct, Tiit Lankots wrote: > No wonder nobody has written a VESA driver -- VESA is loathsome. > You only have a 64K (or maybe even less) sliding window into the > framebuffer; to do any real work you need to regularly engage in > "bank switching", which is *slow*. > > Not to mention all the real-mode 16-bit interupt goo. Yuck. > there is VESA32 standard with 32bit entries and linear framebuffer, but I don't know how many cards support that thing... -- BEATVSHOMOQVIINVENITSAPIENTIAMETQVIAFFLVITPRVDENTIALIVRILVCIFERIVS --0-424238335-1065172633=:42213 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: t4mIl+e30/rSJmVwy9xh3he4Aswqm1eA iQA/AwUAP30+lNBNHei75lHEEQJQpQCfRgrhuyjtwkipcAbaofk9WXBcqh4AoJyW fVU02u1ikul3WoQ4TuySbU5Z =cyHQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0-424238335-1065172633=:42213-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 18:28:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 18:28:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18248 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 18:28:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18244 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 18:28:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 18:28:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9308119C0D; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C32C019BF9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4EA319BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D227A19BE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a5ffa61e305f29dcebbe41d2dde451f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200310030917.h939H9sI049991@SIGBUS.nove.bg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:27:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>there is VESA32 standard with 32bit entries and linear framebuffer, but >>I don't know how many cards support that thing... roger used 16-bit mode in the bootstrap to set up a linear framebuffer because nothing much actually supported the 32-bit mode, even if you could trust the BIOS not to do something silly. it might have changed. i was going to tar up his code and put it on a web site, once i'd located the pieces again, in case anyone was sufficiently keen. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 20:39:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 20:39:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21464 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 20:39:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21460 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 20:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 20:39:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 556FA199D9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF40019AC9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:39:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC1EE19ABD; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ECF9199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 20:38:18 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <115AB500-F596-11D7-BEBE-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] Pegasus 2.0b Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:38:11 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello 9fans, Pegasus is updated. Changes are: - bug fix in reading namespace_80 - removal of some unused codes. Look at http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/ Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 20:39:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 20:39:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21495 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 20:39:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21490 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 20:39:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 20:39:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4370619BFA; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3BF519BD0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:39:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22606199D9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C23A219A6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-Reply-To: <0a5ffa61e305f29dcebbe41d2dde451f@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xlxtcmsmnfjabmfpbfkgjbmfzt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:42:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xlxtcmsmnfjabmfpbfkgjbmfzt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've put it in http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/vesa.tgz --upas-xlxtcmsmnfjabmfpbfkgjbmfzt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A5MEj-0004Rc-7O; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:31:05 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A5MEj-0004Rc-7O; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:28:33 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 067DB19BFE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4730019BEE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:28:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4EA319BC2; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D227A19BE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a5ffa61e305f29dcebbe41d2dde451f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200310030917.h939H9sI049991@SIGBUS.nove.bg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:27:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>there is VESA32 standard with 32bit entries and linear framebuffer, but >>I don't know how many cards support that thing... roger used 16-bit mode in the bootstrap to set up a linear framebuffer because nothing much actually supported the 32-bit mode, even if you could trust the BIOS not to do something silly. it might have changed. i was going to tar up his code and put it on a web site, once i'd located the pieces again, in case anyone was sufficiently keen. --upas-xlxtcmsmnfjabmfpbfkgjbmfzt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 21:54:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 21:54:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23488 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 21:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23484 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 21:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 21:54:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A763619B93; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C03B219BC6; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B57119AB9; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nanionic.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc106.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5075119B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <3F7CA907.8C9F61@null.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:53:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Of course the ironic thing is that Plan 9 really doesn't need more > than VESA provides; all those 3D graphics features of today's cards > are being wasted under Plan 9. A single VESA driver would have > prevented having to keep hacking drivers for each new card. On last discussion I understood that there is a problem with hw cursor (noone supports it even if the standard VESA does). Before using VESA, someone has to write support for software cursor. Another issue may be that VESA may not be as standard as one might expect (for example BIOS bugs are card dependant). Take a look at the vesa X driver for example. Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:10:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:10:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23921 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:10:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23917 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:10:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:10:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4EE819AFB; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC7D819BF0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 571BC199FE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7210919A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <543e21d05a66f04bff57ce80f26cffc5@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:12:19 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On last discussion I understood that there is a problem with hw cursor > (noone supports it even if the standard VESA does). Before using VESA, > someone has to write support for software cursor. you're right: the inferno stuff that forsyth posted relied on software cursor support, something that plan 9 no longer has, i believe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:13:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:13:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24020 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:13:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24016 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:13:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:13:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F048719BF7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80F6B19BC6; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD3D4199FE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idoru.mine.nu (cpc2-cdif1-6-0-cust172.cdif.cable.ntl.com [80.3.231.172]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6DD919AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rasputin by idoru.mine.nu with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A5Pjg-0006sv-LR for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:12:44 +0100 From: Rasputin To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Message-ID: <20031003131244.GA13386@lb.tenfour> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Rasputin List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:12:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) * okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [1034 03:34]: > I shoud have been more verbose on this. > > I sent those drivers with the wish some new commer to Plan 9 > will face hardware problem, if I don't send the drivers. Therefore, > I expect the binaries for those drivers are also included in the > primary distribution, which may be CDROM... > However, I don't know wheather you can get that binary version. > Some days ago, Teege from Germany asked another vga which I > also updated, and reported it didn't work. I was much confused > why that can be happen if he has the same ID card to mine. > Then, I sent my sources, and asked him. Are those same to that > you have? His answer was no. Then, I decided I will not send > sources to them. I don't know whether this *should* be supported, but NetBSD sees it as: pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 pchb0: Intel 82830MP CPU to I/O Bridge 1 (rev. 0x04) agp0 at pchb0: detected 8060k stolen memory agp0: aperture size is 128M agp0: aperture at 0xe8000000, size 0x8000000 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0: Intel 82830MP Integrated Video (rev. 0x04) wsdisplay0 at vga1 kbdmux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsmux1: connecting to wsdisplay0 Intel 82830MP Integrated Video (miscellaneous display) at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured - anyone know if that might work with the latest sources? I'll try get online using ed - it's just vi through a letterbox, isn't it - at least I can read docs now..... Cheers for all replies, anyway. -- If God had intended Man to Walk, He would have given him Feet. Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:18:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:18:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24132 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:18:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24127 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:18:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:18:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9EEF519BFA; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF54819BFF; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5998719B4F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 021DE199FE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57b1791a090ba8120df51e57ec4d09a8@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <543e21d05a66f04bff57ce80f26cffc5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kqxvzusagtgbtqilzqbarcvksj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:16:54 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kqxvzusagtgbtqilzqbarcvksj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the code for that is in there (done by someone at Lucent) but the connections in devdraw aren't there any more. i thought the interface could be simpler. --upas-kqxvzusagtgbtqilzqbarcvksj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A5PhU-00012p-Bz; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:10:59 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A5PhU-00012p-Bz for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:10:28 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4EE819AFB; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC7D819BF0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 571BC199FE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7210919A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <543e21d05a66f04bff57ce80f26cffc5@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:12:19 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On last discussion I understood that there is a problem with hw cursor > (noone supports it even if the standard VESA does). Before using VESA, > someone has to write support for software cursor. you're right: the inferno stuff that forsyth posted relied on software cursor support, something that plan 9 no longer has, i believe. --upas-kqxvzusagtgbtqilzqbarcvksj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:39:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:39:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24828 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:39:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24824 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:39:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:39:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B050019BD0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B391E19C02; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:39:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C93DF19A1F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9CEF19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h93Dc39j002689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h93Dc3xW002685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:38:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, kim kubik wrote: > Lore around this time as well was that HP had given > Joy a large sum of cash to port Unix to a 32-bit > microprocessor they had developed, the thing sat in > a chunk of solid gold the size of a kitchen tile, > necessary as a heat sink. A workstation based on it > may have actually shipped a couple of units. > Bulgaria, who was destined by its government to become the microelectronics technology center of the Warsaw Pact countries, also used gold as the connectors of the circuit boards it made. Reverse engineered Apple IIs... I don't know if that was common practice in the west at the time, maybe 20 years earlier :) Part of our high-school 'hands-on' education involved electronics. In grade 6 and 7 part of the curriculum involved learning how to use a soldering iron and taking the gold (very gently) off the old circuit boards and into a cup... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25115 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:46:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25111 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7628219BF7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B68D119BC6; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:46:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A3FC19A98; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91A4319A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Oct 3 09:45:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 68.37.150.92 ([68.37.150.92]) by plan9; Fri Oct 3 09:45:40 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <003301c389b3$dc61e3e0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:39:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) gold was very common as pad wires. AT&T used to require gold (or at least gold plating) on all board contacts. A gold stratum for a chip would have been odd, not sure what it would be good for. Bill could have finished his thesis while he was at UCB if he had a mind to. He didn't. Sun was pretty much after he'ld given up on it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 22:56:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 22:56:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25321 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 22:56:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25317 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 22:56:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 22:56:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB71D19C26; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA50519C02; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:56:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C0D819C02; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02AFE19BC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Oct 3 09:55:42 EDT 2003 Received: from 68.37.150.92 ([68.37.150.92]) by plan9; Fri Oct 3 09:55:41 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <003f01c389b5$4207a8f0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003301c389b3$dc61e3e0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:49:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Looked at the original message and saw that it said gold hat sink. There were a lot of gold 'plated' heat sinks floating around (still are some). Don't believe I ever saw any that were solid gold. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 23:32:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 23:32:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26495 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 23:32:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26491 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 23:32:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 23:32:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BEFE19AA1; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA83C19C02; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 50AB919A3E; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EE5519A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20031003131244.GA13386@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:31:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 09:13:51 EDT 2003, rasputin@idoru.mine.nu wrote: > ... > I don't know whether this *should* be supported, > but NetBSD sees it as: > ... > Intel 82830MP Integrated Video > ... If the PCI device ID of that function is 0x3577 then it is in the current driver. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 23:35:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 23:35:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26579 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 23:35:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26575 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 23:35:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 23:35:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2978C19C0D; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 309D019A11; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:35:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AA1419AA1; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A50919A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3308f46c395bce82502b731fc273af8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-Reply-To: <543e21d05a66f04bff57ce80f26cffc5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 09:10:45 EDT 2003, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > On last discussion I understood that there is a problem with hw cursor > > (noone supports it even if the standard VESA does). Before using VESA, > > someone has to write support for software cursor. > > you're right: the inferno stuff that forsyth posted relied on software > cursor support, something that plan 9 no longer has, i believe. I haven't ever looked at VESA, so forgive me if this is a stupid question: once you have used VESA to set up the hardware, if you know how to drive the hardware cursor is there anything stopping you from doing that? Usually, writing the code for a hardware cursor is fiddly but not hard. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 3 23:45:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 3 23:45:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26820 invoked by uid 1020); 3 Oct 2003 23:45:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26816 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2003 23:45:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 3 Oct 2003 23:45:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B5C719BFF; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E885319A11; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:45:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B30F719A11; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45FEC19B93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3308f46c395bce82502b731fc273af8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:46:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I haven't ever looked at VESA, so forgive me if this is a stupid question: > once you have used VESA to set up the hardware, if you know how to drive the > hardware cursor is there anything stopping you from doing that? Usually, > writing the code for a hardware cursor is fiddly but not hard. no... just that if you're doing that, you still need to have *some* sort of graphics-card specific driver, whereas the potential bonus of using VESA graphics is that you can use almost any card regardless of driver availability. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 00:31:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 00:31:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27868 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 00:31:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27864 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 00:31:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 00:31:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9011219C0F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44F4819C1A; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0551019C0D; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 294F319BD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A5Rht-0002Q5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:19:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <1e6b.3f7d8e40.4eeb0@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <200309251132.h8PBW3gR018520@skeeve.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:17:03 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Arnold, > Well, the ISP's filtering consists essentially of removing the virus > or rather the attachment with the virus in it. The letter itself > still comes through. This is still an improvement; the emails are > around 4K in size instead of 140K. But I still have to postprocess > the results of my current (underpowered) spam filter. At least it all > downloads a lot faster now. I ssh into my ISP and run a little Python script that talks POP3 to the ISP to get the first 60 lines of each email and delete it if it matches one of two regexps. The POP3 is within the ISPs network so is fast. The ssh is done using .fetchmailrc's `options preconnect'. The end result is I don't notice it happening unless I want to read the output of what text matched with regexp and how many were deleted. Means this 33.6 modem is still usable. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 01:33:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 01:33:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29360 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 01:33:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29356 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 01:33:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 01:33:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAA1419A0C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 491C719BF7; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:33:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A87819C26; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE61E19C04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22580 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h93GWUj06889 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:49:53 EDT." <003f01c389b5$4207a8f0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:32:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Looked at the original message and saw that it said gold hat sink. There > were a lot of gold 'plated' heat sinks floating around (still are some). > Don't believe I ever saw any that were solid gold. I don't know about you, but if *I* saw a solid gold heat sink, I'd buy it, take it home, melt it down, and sell it at a bank, and then replace it with something made out of some other metal. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 01:35:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 01:35:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29379 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 01:35:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29375 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 01:35:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 01:35:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3AB919C45; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21D2A19C31; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:35:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3271619BE0; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CAF319C0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23517 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h93GYdj06910 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310031634.h93GYdj06910@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:32:29 EDT." <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:34:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't know about you, but if *I* saw a solid gold heat sink, I'd > buy it, take it home, melt it down, and sell it at a bank, and then > replace it with something made out of some other metal. Err, make that STEAL it. I guess my fundamentally honest nature led to a Freudian slip. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 01:36:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 01:36:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29406 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 01:36:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29402 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 01:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 01:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCE9F19C2A; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6767C19C37; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD64D19C34; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A0D919BE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:34:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Maybe that's why I never saw them; Dan has a pile of gold bullion in his closet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 01:43:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 01:43:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29505 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 01:43:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29501 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 01:43:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 01:43:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 229B819BFF; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52C2919C37; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 667DA19C33; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FF9F19C20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h93GgcXx005291 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:42:38 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h93GgbSa025111 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:42:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h93Ggb7W018816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:42:37 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:42:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > I don't know about you, but if *I* saw a solid gold heat sink, I'd > buy it, take it home, melt it down, and sell it at a bank, and then > replace it with something made out of some other metal. I worked at HP as in intern in the good old (gold) days when many HP divs made their own boards. There was a room in it with lotsa gold bars for the boards. I still have a PC board with a huge HP logo on it from those days. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 02:11:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 02:11:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29923 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 02:11:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29919 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 02:11:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 02:11:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9AC419C49; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 624F219C37; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:11:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D37F019C0F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E86EE19C20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93HA1hA014021 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:10:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <533a726c191bf56f5cf3e3b860143b76@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:10:10 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't know about you, but if *I* saw a solid gold heat sink, I'd > buy it, take it home, melt it down, and sell it at a bank, and then > replace it with something made out of some other metal. - Dan "Jack Handy" Cross From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 02:37:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 02:37:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30355 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 02:37:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30351 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 02:37:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 02:37:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29B6B19C49; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A62719C26; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:37:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A65A19A08; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D09A519C20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C79@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:36:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) and on-the-job training as an admin, was vi. for years that's all i ever used. then one day at work i had to use ed on a system with something busted with the console. an older unix type had to show me where to start, but learning the regexp stuff was amaxing. i still used vi regularly, but the stuff i learned in ed made me much more productive there. and that's saying nothing of the tons of other places the regexp stuff shows up. a friend of mine is currently in school for a CS degree. they taught him vi and emacs, but without any of the regexp stuff. i tried to get him to learn ed, but he couldn't understand why you'd want to. i guess it'll take until he's got nothing else to understand. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 02:45:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 02:45:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30536 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 02:45:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30532 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 02:45:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 02:45:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3218F19A1F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64E4F19C37; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:45:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C323219C26; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFBAD19A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8064d510adc42c502c194605e0d4d407@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:47:13 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > the stuff i learned in ed made me much > more productive there. and that's saying nothing of the tons of > other places the regexp stuff shows up. i'd have grave difficulty surviving without the sam command language... (there are a couple of annoying little things i still haven't worked out a good way of doing though) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 02:57:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 02:57:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30699 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 02:57:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30695 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 02:57:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 02:57:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D74B19C20; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3662319C3C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF82619C09; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9FFB199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3308f46c395bce82502b731fc273af8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kcvfdykuptoorzmhwqwakerptt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:59:41 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kcvfdykuptoorzmhwqwakerptt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, the problem with graphics cards is really the strange card-specific stuff needed to put it into a reasonable large, deep linear colour mode. if we had only to write code for the hw cursor for each one, that would be much less of a problem. even some of the hardware drawing code doesn't look hard to exploit ... once the card is in a sensible mode. the cursor code always seemed fairly similar, so it might not be too hard to have a table of ids just for that if necessary, and certainly card-specific code for that is fairly easy to write. one of the changes i was making to the software cursor in inferno is to bring it into a common interface with the hardware one (allowing for the need to interact a bit with devdraw re. screen access). --upas-kcvfdykuptoorzmhwqwakerptt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A5R1h-00071Z-A3; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:35:25 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A5R1h-00071Z-A3; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:35:25 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AC5619C09; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4154019C09; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:35:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AA1419AA1; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A50919A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3308f46c395bce82502b731fc273af8b@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-Reply-To: <543e21d05a66f04bff57ce80f26cffc5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:34:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 09:10:45 EDT 2003, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > On last discussion I understood that there is a problem with hw cursor > > (noone supports it even if the standard VESA does). Before using VESA, > > someone has to write support for software cursor. > > you're right: the inferno stuff that forsyth posted relied on software > cursor support, something that plan 9 no longer has, i believe. I haven't ever looked at VESA, so forgive me if this is a stupid question: once you have used VESA to set up the hardware, if you know how to drive the hardware cursor is there anything stopping you from doing that? Usually, writing the code for a hardware cursor is fiddly but not hard. --upas-kcvfdykuptoorzmhwqwakerptt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 03:29:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 03:29:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31370 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 03:29:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31366 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 03:29:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 03:29:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8315B19B12; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FEA719C3C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:29:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06E3419ADE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CD0819AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92f0483b4252b9cd48e240d6d4122c65@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 13:57:55 EDT 2003, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > yes, the problem with graphics cards is really the strange card-specific stuff > needed to put it into a reasonable large, deep linear colour mode. > if we had only to write code for the hw cursor for each one, > that would be much less of a problem. even some of the hardware > drawing code doesn't look hard to exploit ... once the card is in a sensible mode. > > the cursor code always seemed fairly similar, so it might not be too hard > to have a table of ids just for that if necessary, and certainly card-specific > code for that is fairly easy to write. one of the changes i > was making to the software cursor in inferno is to bring it > into a common interface with the hardware one > (allowing for the need to interact a bit with devdraw re. screen access). The reason the software cursor disappeared form Plan 9 was, by the time devdraw went in, the cursor and mouse code had accumulated so much cruft after years of adapting to new graphics models and hardware that it was a constant source of lockups and crashes. There was an attempt when changing to devdraw to pare all that back and simplify it. The software cursor was the cause of many of the problems. The software cursor is OK for getting started, but I'd hate to use it in earnest. The flicker when scrolling text was awful and I'm trying to imagine what it would be like with vnc. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 04:04:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 04:04:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32130 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 04:04:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32126 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 04:04:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 04:04:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8914219C65; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFBC419C4A; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 313CE19AFB; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idoru.mine.nu (cpc2-cdif1-6-0-cust172.cdif.cable.ntl.com [80.3.231.172]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75E1E19A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rasputin by idoru.mine.nu with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A5VDK-0003FK-8h for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:03:42 +0100 From: Rasputin To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Message-ID: <20031003190342.GA2096@lb.tenfour> References: <20031003131244.GA13386@lb.tenfour> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Rasputin List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:03:42 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) * jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com [1033 15:33]: > On Fri Oct 3 09:13:51 EDT 2003, rasputin@idoru.mine.nu wrote: > > ... > > I don't know whether this *should* be supported, > > but NetBSD sees it as: > > ... > > Intel 82830MP Integrated Video > > ... > > If the PCI device ID of that function is 0x3577 then it is in > the current driver. According to NetBSDs pcidevs.h, that's the fella. So if I can get up to the latest driver, I'm set, right? [ Sorry if that's a stupid question, I'm not sure if by 'current driver' you mean the 4th ed. release, or if I need to upgrade. ] Last stupid question (err, of the night ;] ) - is the data on http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Staying_up_to_date/index.html up to date? Thanks again for all the help, hopefully next time I post it'll be from a Plan9 system. -- Life may have no meaning -- or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove. Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 04:21:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 04:21:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32429 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 04:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32425 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 04:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 04:21:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60C7519BBE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7B9119C4A; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:21:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51E5A199BF; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A62BA19AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7726fcaef79afbe86c5a39b406ac9bde@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20031003190342.GA2096@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:20:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 15:04:53 EDT 2003, rasputin@idoru.mine.nu wrote: > ... > So if I can get up to the latest driver, I'm set, right? > > [ Sorry if that's a stupid question, I'm not sure if by > 'current driver' you mean the 4th ed. release, or if I need to upgrade. ] > ... I'm not sure if it was in the 4th Ed. or not, but it should be in the current downloads (Intel i81x). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 04:25:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 04:25:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32560 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 04:25:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32556 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 04:25:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 04:25:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C48D619A9E; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 892D319C4D; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:25:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B94019C1C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5CE8199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <92f0483b4252b9cd48e240d6d4122c65@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pqpoqukorppnbgzrrgtuajcijd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:22:31 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pqpoqukorppnbgzrrgtuajcijd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that code was indeed quite complicated (it seemed to wander back and forth between draw, mouse and screen in a way that was probably straightforward but always left me a little confused for a few passes). for performance, i think it depends how it's done. i didn't do the Inferno one, but i did use it without obvious trouble with Inferno on a 486sx33 processor. in one of my own os's i did the software cursor in a process on a 386sx16 and that was fine too, although that was only 16x16 in bits on a monochrome screen. neither controlled it with the clock, though, which might have made it smoother. --upas-pqpoqukorppnbgzrrgtuajcijd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A5UgN-0003oP-Al; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:29:39 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A5UgN-0003oP-Al for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:29:39 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8315B19B12; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FEA719C3C; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:29:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06E3419ADE; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CD0819AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92f0483b4252b9cd48e240d6d4122c65@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:28:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 3 13:57:55 EDT 2003, forsyth@vitanuova.com wrote: > yes, the problem with graphics cards is really the strange card-specific stuff > needed to put it into a reasonable large, deep linear colour mode. > if we had only to write code for the hw cursor for each one, > that would be much less of a problem. even some of the hardware > drawing code doesn't look hard to exploit ... once the card is in a sensible mode. > > the cursor code always seemed fairly similar, so it might not be too hard > to have a table of ids just for that if necessary, and certainly card-specific > code for that is fairly easy to write. one of the changes i > was making to the software cursor in inferno is to bring it > into a common interface with the hardware one > (allowing for the need to interact a bit with devdraw re. screen access). The reason the software cursor disappeared form Plan 9 was, by the time devdraw went in, the cursor and mouse code had accumulated so much cruft after years of adapting to new graphics models and hardware that it was a constant source of lockups and crashes. There was an attempt when changing to devdraw to pare all that back and simplify it. The software cursor was the cause of many of the problems. The software cursor is OK for getting started, but I'd hate to use it in earnest. The flicker when scrolling text was awful and I'm trying to imagine what it would be like with vnc. --upas-pqpoqukorppnbgzrrgtuajcijd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 08:44:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 08:44:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4401 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 08:44:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4397 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 08:44:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 08:44:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2141519C69; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B7D719C4A; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:44:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A868819B4F; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A63F219A07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6086b2a9e69f58c793b7f861fbf2c186@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ati radeon support From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 00:41:32 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>for performance, i think it depends how [software cursor] is done. which doesn't mean that i prefer it to using a hardware cursor, which can do more with less overhead and disturbance. i don't really understand why graphics adapter makers can apparently agree to change anything except the hopelessly obsolete VGA interface. soon you'll need to visit three registers to collect enough bits for screen width. i don't mind if there's a standard bit Think= 1<<0, /* acquire a brain */ in a standard place that must be set to enable a more reasonable interface for current and future displays and otherwise it defaults to 1983 say. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 10:55:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 10:55:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9521 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 10:55:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9517 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 10:55:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 10:55:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE7FA19ACD; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 061B519C40; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:55:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D6A0319B1B; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C93619ACD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda.corp.google.com (none@glenda.corp.google.com [10.3.18.97]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h941ragr001609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:53:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1ce82796010ca1336dfae191b74ebb33@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <8064d510adc42c502c194605e0d4d407@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:53:36 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > (there are a couple of annoying little things i still haven't > worked out a good way of doing though) if they're annoying, don't do them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 16:59:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 16:59:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20441 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 16:59:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20432 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 16:58:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 16:58:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9C2519B38; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6986E19B36; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:58:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7809319ACD; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4F7C19B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <003301c389b3$dc61e3e0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:57:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) oh yeah pad wires, sure. otherwise heavy, thick ... :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 17:01:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 17:01:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20594 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 17:01:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20590 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 17:01:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 17:01:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FF2D19B37; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8101619C1A; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89E1619B2E; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E84B419B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e68bb7d9dec529cc4401644b0f8d7c0@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <003f01c389b5$4207a8f0$1602a8c0@bl.belllabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:00:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) trouble with 'pure' [24 carat] gold is that it's very maleable, a bit too much. it's early so '24 carat' maybe totally bogus. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 17:04:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 17:04:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20645 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 17:04:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20641 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 17:04:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 17:04:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B79D19C41; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5347819C2D; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:04:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33BFE19C26; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9284A19AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b58cc084a8034bb865525620103a9d5@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:02:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) LOL. i'm with you captain, ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 17:08:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 17:08:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20828 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 17:08:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20824 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 17:08:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 17:08:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D3A319C49; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F38119C40; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:08:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E999619B30; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EE2019B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <82ac392a997c252fc72c93ac12ab69a5@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:06:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,TRACKER_ID version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) control-meta-clusterfuck From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 17:15:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 17:15:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20922 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 17:15:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20918 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 17:15:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 17:15:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 27C0D19C5C; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75A5319C41; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:15:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4ED6B19ADE; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8B5019C1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <8064d510adc42c502c194605e0d4d407@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:14:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) as it says in one of the sam papers: few people use the command language nor did i, but now i do, a lot. with 'perfect undo', so simply implemented, you can either: - smash the file(s) - build up a meta command if it doan work, just type 'u'. this is 'rollback'. buncha times i've thought of: do it again [SD] but i guess i'm just being a lazy mouse-er. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 4 17:18:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 4 17:18:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21055 invoked by uid 1020); 4 Oct 2003 17:18:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21051 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2003 17:18:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 4 Oct 2003 17:18:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 414EE19C66; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6635A19C49; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:18:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 50D6B19C1A; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9715D19C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <1ce82796010ca1336dfae191b74ebb33@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 04:17:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) if they're annoying, don't do them. good call. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 00:45:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 00:45:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30182 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 00:45:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30178 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 00:45:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 00:45:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C889A19A8E; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 073F719AD9; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:45:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 787DC19AC5; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF78819A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aSqueakSystem (max2-d39.nas.com [206.63.102.168]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E781EC7E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.5180 Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jack Johnson Message-Id: <20031004153831.9E781EC7E5@edoras.nas.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 07:50:38 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ron minnich wrote: > Joy was one of the first Rock Star OS guys. The Rock Stars of Unix. It sounds like a bad VH1 special. Or a good VH1 special. They do some damn good documentary work. -J From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 00:45:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 00:45:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30196 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 00:45:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30192 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 00:45:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 00:45:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 916AF19B18; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2C7419B19; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:45:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB35719AA8; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edoras.nas.com (edoras.nas.com [206.63.100.8]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C5A219A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aSqueakSystem (max2-d39.nas.com [206.63.102.168]) by edoras.nas.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 55313EC7C3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:38:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.5180 Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Jack Johnson Message-Id: <20031004153832.55313EC7C3@edoras.nas.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 07:58:12 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "boyd, rounin" wrote: > bbtw. this is way OT, but you _do not_ fuck around with firearms. Still OT, but well said & spoken. As a former member, I only wish more people like you could be in charge of the NRA. -J P.S. WAY OT, I've always been pissed that concealed carry laws don't allow chemical sprays or knives. One could argue that concealed carry is about the perception of security rather than true security, so allowing a trained citizen to carry something that helps them feel secure but disallowing arms that might have a more limited lethal range -- or be non-lethal -- seems asinine. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 00:48:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 00:48:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30252 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 00:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30248 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 00:48:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 00:48:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E934519AD9; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0927A19B1A; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:48:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0380F19B10; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IS.NOVELL.COM (unknown [192.233.80.128]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5350919AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from novell.com not authenticated [137.65.81.123] by IS.NOVELL.COM with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.9 $ on Novell NetWare; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:51:45 -0600 Message-Id: <6aa6pvntqps1h> X-Mailer: GWAVA Notification Service From: "GWAVA" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [GWAVA:kfqags1u] Body text filter message notification Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is an automated Notification e-mail message from GWAVA. The message you sent, from the address 9fans@cse.psu.edu to [No To Addresses] Concerning: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Was not delivered because it contained content not accepted by the e-mail system in use at the intended recipient's organization. The message contained the following text: %%FilterContent From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 01:08:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 01:08:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30712 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 01:08:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30708 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 01:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 01:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D23E19AC7; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8A9519AD4; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20B2E19AC7; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83E9319A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0cca7a7212610c2b3c1c5f029fbc6167@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] spamoff: trashed mail from boyd@it.usyd.edu.au Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:07:20 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) that GWAVA noise is KIA. on [lots of] reflection this filtering is: 1. hard to get right [NPROC] 2. difficult to test 3. resource consuming 4. a serious waste of my time [which i have a lot of] 5. if you're gonna do it you need 'interlocking fields of fire' 6. kill everything, except people you like [white list] i'm thinking 9grid. i'll just import nets i like. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 06:50:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 06:50:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7406 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 06:50:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7402 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 06:50:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 06:50:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43E2819AD1; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C104619ACC; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:50:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDB7319AC1; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend-2.cgpmail.ua.pt (mail.ua.pt [193.136.80.79]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D398219A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 17:49:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UA-Spam: No X-UA-Spam-Status: hits=-5.4 required=5.0 X-UA-Spam-Report: BAYES_01 USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA Received: from [81.193.31.9] (account a27621@alunos.det.ua.pt HELO users.sourceforge.net) by frontend-2.cgpmail.ua.pt (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP-TLS id 12107769 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:49:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3F7F4070.6080708@users.sourceforge.net> From: Hugo Santos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] detaching a process from its window Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:49:36 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello there, Is it possible to detach a process from its rio window, and then reatach it in another one? E.g. detaching acme from a window, and then reatach it in a window from a rio running from drawterm. Hugo Santos From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 09:40:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 09:40:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11105 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 09:40:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11101 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 09:40:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 09:40:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D69E19AB5; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D077B19AC0; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:40:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B69F219AAB; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD51E19AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <07f7e8d81880994a322ebade4d13dc78@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] detaching a process from its window From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3F7F4070.6080708@users.sourceforge.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:39:22 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is it possible to detach a process from its rio window, and then reatach > it in another one? E.g. detaching acme from a window, and then reatach > it in a window from a rio running from drawterm. no... you can use vnc for some of that functionality, or you can use 'aan' to be able to reattach to processes from different hosts (imported fd's) but the functionality you're thinking of isn't there. people have discussed possible ways of implementing it, but i keep thinking that if there was an easy, clean way it would've been done already... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 12:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 12:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15713 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 12:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15709 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 12:46:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 12:46:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 167BD19A8E; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F18A19AC0; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EDEA19AD1; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E54A19AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h953jOXx009101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:45:24 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h953jOo3006764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:45:24 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.9/8.12.9/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h953jN7W000389 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:45:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spamoff: trashed mail from boyd@it.usyd.edu.au In-Reply-To: <0cca7a7212610c2b3c1c5f029fbc6167@sdgm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 21:45:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > i'm thinking 9grid. i'll just import nets i like. hey, we arrived at the same place, by different paths, but that's cool with me :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 12:49:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 12:49:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15807 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 12:49:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15803 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 12:49:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 12:49:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A533119B0F; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9F8219ACC; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6F5419A03; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BC93199BE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0e8fb44ed3a79128fd0787aea81602fa@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] spamoff: trashed mail from boyd@it.usyd.edu.au In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:48:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hey, we arrived at the same place, by different paths, but that's cool with me :-) funny old world :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 15:03:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 15:03:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19585 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 15:03:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19581 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 15:03:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 15:03:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77A6419AC1; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2178A19AE0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2C0019A73; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0C41F19A8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14755 invoked by uid 991); 5 Oct 2003 06:02:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20031005060248.14754.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] detaching a process from its window In-reply-to: <07f7e8d81880994a322ebade4d13dc78@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <07f7e8d81880994a322ebade4d13dc78@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Comments: In-reply-to mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca message dated "Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:39:22 -0600." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:02:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It'd have been easier with 8.5, I think, where windows are purely recursive (change 8.5 to work like unix's screen program). Pushing state into /dev/draw makes it harder. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 17:22:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 17:22:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22820 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 17:22:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22816 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 17:22:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 17:22:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8BAB19AB5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18C2019AD9; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:22:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05B0019AB5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C628419AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 94955 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 08:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 08:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 08:21:05 -0000 Received: from p9c by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h958L4L148654; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:21:04 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:21:02 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i just happened to wonder if there is a user-level file server which serves the classic pcfs file system. i have an old 3rd ed. file system and copying all of its /n/dump to new venti is time consuming. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 17:34:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 17:34:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22973 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 17:34:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22969 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 17:34:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 17:34:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A6AE19B05; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F077C19ADB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B47619AC2; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7365419AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86369fd12d588b0f292c6af333f7e36d@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:33:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) doing it and waiting could be a plan. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 18:06:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 18:06:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23924 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 18:06:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23920 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 18:06:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 18:06:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E255C19AD9; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 05:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28D6219AF5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 05:06:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5178A19ADB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 05:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0556B19AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 05:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 18:05:24 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <0DAE6CEA-F713-11D7-B35A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:05:23 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a user-level file server > classic pcfs file system what do these mean? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 19:38:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 19:38:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25827 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 19:38:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25823 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 19:38:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 19:38:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3B6619ACB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3DE119AF5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:38:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34FA219AC0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 944FF19ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6948 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 10:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 10:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 10:37:13 -0000 Received: from p9c by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h95AbDL170015; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:37:13 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3b8ce016af852302e76a03f7df7c3a67@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 19:37:12 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun Oct 5 17:34:34 JST 2003, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > doing it and waiting could be a plan. yup, it could be. i would like to look into this anyway. it would make a great study to understand some file system. i hadn't done that so far and i think plan 9 one is way suitable for this purpose compared to other fs'es. On Sun Oct 5 18:06:34 JST 2003, Kenji Arisawa wrote: > > a user-level file server a user process file server running on cpu server (or terminal) that serves disks which had been used by pcfs once before. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 20:26:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 20:26:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27057 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 20:26:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27052 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 20:26:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 20:26:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F06B019AD9; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E028C19ADE; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:26:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BB5419ACB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4A1B019A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55809 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 11:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 2318 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 11:24:08 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 11:24:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 62868 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 11:24:08 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <864qyodj1j.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] snarf/copy text to sam window Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:24:08 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, how do I copy text from a rc window to a sam window. Snarf and paste didnt work. Thanks Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 20:42:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 20:42:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27449 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 20:42:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27445 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 20:42:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 20:42:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FAA519AC0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38C3119ADE; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:42:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1887719AC2; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 712A219AD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tackle.hq.iba.co.za (none@p9cpu.iba.co.za [172.24.16.12]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id h95Bfk000911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:41:47 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <8eecda1ed38a9219cee0d2f7897310e5@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snarf/copy text to sam window Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 Acme Mail X-Disclaimer: Everything expressed is an opinion From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <864qyodj1j.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Lucio De Re List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:47:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Moin, > > how do I copy text from a rc window to a sam window. Snarf and > paste didnt work. > The option in the sam button-2 menu exchanges the contents of the snarf buffers. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 20:52:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 20:52:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27637 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 20:52:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27633 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 20:52:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 20:52:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99F6819B17; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF02519AF5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:52:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E745C19AD5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.0xfe.org (pc-211-8-214-187.ctktv.ne.jp [211.8.214.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1440F19AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A67QD-0000Dk-SR for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:51:33 +0900 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031005115133.GA842@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Vester Thacker Subject: [9fans] Booting from a thumb drive Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:51:33 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Has anyone booted Plan 9 from a thumb drive? I've had partial success so far. I'm attempting to use the thumb drive as a floppy drive replacement for my epia cpu server to minimize moving parts and reduce turnaround times during reboots. I'm just curious if anyone else has attempted this and had any tips. Thanks in advance. -- Vester Thacker From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 21:16:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 21:16:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28131 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28127 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5316319AF5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BF319AF0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFEC919ADE; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BDB3519AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56353 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 12:15:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2618 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 12:12:49 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 12:12:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 67228 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 12:12:49 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snarf/copy text to sam window References: <8eecda1ed38a9219cee0d2f7897310e5@proxima.alt.za> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <8eecda1ed38a9219cee0d2f7897310e5@proxima.alt.za> (lucio@proxima.alt.za's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:47:17 +0200") Message-ID: <86zngfdgse.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:12:49 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) lucio@proxima.alt.za writes: > The option in the sam button-2 menu exchanges the contents of > the snarf buffers. Hmm, but snarf (in rc window), , paste didn't copy the text to my sam file?! Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 21:42:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 21:42:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28693 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 21:42:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28689 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 21:42:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 21:42:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE75319B31; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4203E19B17; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:42:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F07F19B08; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2154619A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56632 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 12:41:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 2715 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 12:37:55 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 12:37:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 69212 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 12:37:55 -0000 To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege Message-ID: <86vfr3dfmk.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:37:55 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin, I tried to connect with different clients to a plan9 imap server. With kmail I get a folderlist and the number of messages stored in the folders but if I select a folder there is no message. With Operas M2 I only get a folder INBOX but also no message and mutt gives me a =ABCRAM-MD5 auth failed=BB. Maybe this is a configuration problem on the server but it would be nice to know, which imap/pop clients working with the plan9 pop/imap server. Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:00:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:00:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28997 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:00:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28993 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:00:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:00:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3A1D19AF0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B70819B17; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:00:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57E4719B13; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B815219AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58c70e5d094de271e6375e4b15821566@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? In-Reply-To: <0DAE6CEA-F713-11D7-B35A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:59:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > a user-level file server > classic pcfs file system what do these mean? good question. i assumed pc kfs. but assumption being the mother of all ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:04:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:04:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29067 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:04:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29063 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:04:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:04:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A52719B33; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B63719B1A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44CB919B16; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AACC719AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] snarf/copy text to sam window In-Reply-To: <864qyodj1j.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:03:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) button 2 sam and rio have separate snarf buffers. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:05:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:05:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29081 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29077 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:05:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F7E019AA6; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D458F19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F8BB19B14; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 958AD19B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8b33576521fcd283acf7c4d94c209fa3@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86vfr3dfmk.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Moin eh? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:07:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:07:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29134 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:07:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29130 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:07:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:07:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6247619B31; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A059119B1D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:07:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DFC419B14; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7CD719B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39b56dc971a208384ea3ce25c37c77da@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86vfr3dfmk.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:06:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) pop - highway to hell imap - superhighway to hell From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29305 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:17:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29301 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:17:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:17:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82A6219A5E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29D2919B2A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:17:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AB8719B17; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AF0319A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h95DGhQ6012104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:16:43 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7D@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server Thread-Index: AcOLQbanKDA63p0sTaOZHLDTtIkWqgAACT5w From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:16:23 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >pop - highway to hell >imap - superhighway to hell especially nice is to know that your passwords float=20 in cleartext into the better tomorrow From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:41:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:41:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29811 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:41:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29807 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:41:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:41:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F210919B4B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A979E19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B53E199D3; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6EAD419A9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57256 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 13:40:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 3039 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 13:37:43 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 13:37:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 73874 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 13:37:43 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <39b56dc971a208384ea3ce25c37c77da@sdgm.net> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <39b56dc971a208384ea3ce25c37c77da@sdgm.net> (boyd@sdgm.net's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:06:05 -0400") Message-ID: <86r81rdcuw.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:37:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd@sdgm.net writes: > pop - highway to hell > imap - superhighway to hell mut% nmap www.sdgm.net Starting nmap 3.27 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2003-10-05 15:34 CEST Interesting ports on brahma.sdgm.net (64.32.179.49): (The 1613 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) Port State Service 22/tcp open ssh 25/tcp open smtp 53/tcp open domain 80/tcp open http 110/tcp open pop-3 113/tcp open auth 443/tcp open https 567/tcp open banyan-rpc 993/tcp open imaps 17007/tcp open isode-dua I'm with you ... ;-) Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:41:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:41:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29819 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:41:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29815 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:41:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:41:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE23D19B1F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DEBD19B31; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:41:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A25219A6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B15AC19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57259 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 13:40:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 3047 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 13:40:18 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 13:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 74042 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 13:40:18 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <8b33576521fcd283acf7c4d94c209fa3@sdgm.net> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <8b33576521fcd283acf7c4d94c209fa3@sdgm.net> (boyd@sdgm.net's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:04:45 -0400") Message-ID: <86n0cfdcql.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:40:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) boyd@sdgm.net writes: > Moin > eh? http://groups.google.de/groups?as_umsgid=20011003154527.B3841%40book.mteege.de From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29900 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:46:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29896 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:46:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:46:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C3E2199F2; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7CED19A73; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:46:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56F9B19A10; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 40BEE19A6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57303 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 13:45:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 3075 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 13:43:57 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 13:43:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 74292 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 13:43:57 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7D@black.aprote.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7D@black.aprote.com> (Tiit Lankots's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:16:23 +0300") Message-ID: <86isn3dcki.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:43:57 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Tiit Lankots" writes: > especially nice is to know that your passwords float > in cleartext into the better tomorrow Yes, sure but I dont need to encrypt a password if dont get any message. ;-) I dont want run pop or imap to the world. If I ever run such a server I'll use some kind of encryption. Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:51:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:51:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30044 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:51:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30040 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:51:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:51:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6D7019B1D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4118C19B2A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:51:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 976C519B1D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E13A19A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <70ef6af477a1257f51f0c6022ce2174e@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86r81rdcuw.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:49:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) that's dan's work. i'm just a squatter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 5 22:53:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 5 22:53:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30067 invoked by uid 1020); 5 Oct 2003 22:53:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30063 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 22:53:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 22:53:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B452A19A10; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B59819B2B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:53:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BE6219B17; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D070C19A19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0563948864d01ad3bef5e4df6b34e021@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86n0cfdcql.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:52:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ok :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:15:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:15:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32188 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:15:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32183 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:15:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:15:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1532719B1F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5797719B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F473199E4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C011D19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86vfr3dfmk.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) We normally talk to our plan 9 imap server with netscape or microsoft outlook. I haven't tried opera. We normally start it under tlssrv but I've also run it without. If you don't manage to debug the problem, I'll bring up opera M2 in a few days and give it a try. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:15:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:15:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32196 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:15:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32192 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:15:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:15:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0562819B45; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1C4219B2A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2146219AC8; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0230219AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FLTF20819 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:21:29 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:21:28 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Perhaps I've missed something obvious, an example in a man page perhaps; but... I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the bootfloppy. I am assuming that I can/could use this same process to grab screenshots during/after the install as well. I can of course simply take a digital image of the screen but that seems rather lo-tech. The reason is that I'm writing an article to be published and this is pretty much the final stage. Thanks. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:17:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:17:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32225 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:17:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32221 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:17:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:17:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C17119B47; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1590319B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:17:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B485519B1D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 314E9199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <934ecacf5ea3fedbbda2e969427573cd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:16:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) By pcfs do you mean a DOS FAT file system? If so, just use dossrv. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:20:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:20:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32312 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32308 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:20:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53BF219B27; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6029819B38; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:20:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9539119B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 001D619B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86r81rdcuw.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:21:16 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) interestingly, nmap 3.45 reports your https as "Microsoft IIS SSL" From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:23:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:23:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32378 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:23:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32374 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:23:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:23:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC14E19B56; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F68719B2B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A977819B1E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A637A19B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5bfe7fb4638c8ad6e54cb3bef9114a7b@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:24:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:27:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:27:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32615 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:27:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32610 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:27:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:27:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9612919B1A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B66F19B2B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:27:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F10C219B1F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA0019B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FX1h20929 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:33:01 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: <5bfe7fb4638c8ad6e54cb3bef9114a7b@juice.thebigchoice.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:33:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 Cool, I knew I could do that but is this a raw dump or a jpg or what? If it's not a standard format what utility converts it? I don't see any examples of how to process the actual data. What's the standard graphics viewer for P9? For that matter what's the best tool to play .wav and .mp3 files? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:32:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:32:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32671 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:32:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32667 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:32:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:32:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 840B019B31; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26CB919B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:32:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F1F419B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F39C19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03350d703f659750550cd44494097747@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:33:06 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) man file From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:33:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:33:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32711 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:33:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32707 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:33:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:33:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD39B19B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C17B219B2B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:33:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3ADB19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE3E119B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95Fcmt20945 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:38:48 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:38:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 Try that under drawterm and you get a screen full of 1's and 0's. Very ugly. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:35:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:35:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 346 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 342 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:35:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A27BF19B55; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1878019B4F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BC0B19B2A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD84F19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05e10ec870bfc36b017f7a26310a8176@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:33:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Perhaps I've missed something obvious, an example in a man page perhaps; but... land a goshen ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:36:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:36:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 388 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:36:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 383 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:36:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:36:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AE1B19B4F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5319219B61; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:36:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22A3219B49; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDBB019B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FgBc20968 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:42:11 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:42:11 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And while we're talking about how the display works, when there is an error condition you get those little black blocks with text in them, how do you refresh after it screws your display up? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:41:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:41:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 493 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:41:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 488 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:41:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:41:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 742CA19B5B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 974F619B4B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4FEA19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFAF019B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FkwG21011 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:46:58 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:46:57 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "man file" Doesn't answer the question. If this is the most help you can provide, stop please. Been there , done that. Not a single example just a bunch of gibberish about file formats. No examples, nothing. I just love the bug section... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > And while we're talking about how the display works, when there is an > error condition you get those little black blocks with text in them, how > do you refresh after it screws your display up? > > -- -- > > God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we > can't prove it. > Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu > > ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:45:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:45:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 549 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:45:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 545 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:45:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:45:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0711B19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF2A419B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:45:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D34D819A03; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE8E119A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:44:00 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the if that's the rio that comes up after the installation (glenda+acme and docs) then do: togif < /dev/screen > $home/scr.gif if you want to take a snapshot of the booting screen beforehand (with 'root is from:' prompts and whatnot) you're better off using a camera, or copy/pasting the text as it comes off the serial console :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:50:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:50:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 753 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:50:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 747 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:50:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:50:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BBA319B4B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 461BA19B4F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:50:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7EEB19B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B43A019AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FtjQ21045 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:55:45 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:55:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 It's actually... cp /dev/screen /tmp/grab01 Just another perfect example why this group is inbred. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:50:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:50:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 762 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:50:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 758 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:50:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:50:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1A4019B6D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 592CB19B5A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F4BB19B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F05519B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? In-Reply-To: <934ecacf5ea3fedbbda2e969427573cd@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:49:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If by pcfs you mean the old worm file server running 9pcfs, there's no user-level version. It probably wouldn't be too much work to move into user space (that's how kfs happened, though kfs drops the interesting bits) but it hasn't been done. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:52:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:52:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 909 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:52:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 905 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:52:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:52:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EC9319AC4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9104B19B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:52:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30C3619B4C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CB3919B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95FvmQ21057 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:57:48 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <21a55d642f78f53fb753f9a156a18846@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Q about screenshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:57:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) And just exactly what happens if the cp occurs while the screen is in the middle of an update. Does it grab the old frame, wait for the new frame to complete, or just give you a gibberish dump of the interim buffer contents which are almost certainly worthless? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:54:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:54:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 937 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:54:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 933 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:54:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:54:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D19D019B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030A019B55; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4D1319B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7561319B51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95Fxp321067 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:59:51 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:59:51 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Andrey, On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > I'm trying to grab a snapshot of the initial boot screen from the > > if that's the rio that comes up after the installation (glenda+acme > and docs) then do: > > togif < /dev/screen > $home/scr.gif > > if you want to take a snapshot of the booting screen beforehand (with > 'root is from:' prompts and whatnot) you're better off using a camera, > or copy/pasting the text as it comes off the serial console :) Thank you very much for the clear and direct answer. I intend to include this in future H18 How To's. Can I have your permission to credit you for this? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 00:59:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 00:59:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1055 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 00:59:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1051 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 00:59:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 00:59:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B663919B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7512419B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:59:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6F6419B51; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BF3619B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CD55A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:59:30 +0100 (WEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] latest plan9 and vmware4 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:57:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Has anyone tried to install using the latest iso (plan9-new.iso) in vmware4? I manage to install fine, using fossil instead of kfs, but when i reboot, the bootloader fails to boot the system. It stalls after: dev A0 port 1F0 config 427A capabilities 2F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 dev A0 port 170 config 85C4 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 Anyone with similiar problems? If i boot from cd all is fine. Hugo Santos From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:01:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:01:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1122 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:01:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1118 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:01:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:01:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBD2E19ABB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D73519B80; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77E4219B51; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6326019ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 58866 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 16:00:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 3799 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 15:59:23 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 15:59:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 84895 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 15:59:23 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (matt@proweb.co.uk's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:21:16 +0100") Message-ID: <86d6dbd6as.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:59:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) matt@proweb.co.uk writes: > interestingly, nmap 3.45 reports your https as "Microsoft IIS SSL" In my case, nmap is wrong. Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1137 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1133 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:02:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:02:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E201D19B61; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F047C19B64; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EB1319B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7A2E19B7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:03:22 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) please die From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:04:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:04:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1146 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:04:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1142 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:04:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:04:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEF6519AF0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC89619B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BAE919B55; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7376319B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95G9wI21120 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:09:58 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:09:58 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > please die Nope. Suffer. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:04:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:04:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1155 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:04:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1151 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:04:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:04:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FC7619B95; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D3A19B7C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:04:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2402019B64; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91E4C19B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86d6dbd6as.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) nmap does an incredibly bad job identifying whats behind plan 9 ports because we're not worth their time to know about. At least it finds the open ports, even though we often have different services there than others do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:05:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:05:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1162 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:05:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1158 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:05:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:05:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A26419B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACABF19B7C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4C7619B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBD7F19B64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lpcflwllgcpjopuwffcxajtysg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:03:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lpcflwllgcpjopuwffcxajtysg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You first --upas-lpcflwllgcpjopuwffcxajtysg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sun Oct 5 12:02:41 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sun Oct 5 12:02:38 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D9BB19B80; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F358A19B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:02:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EB1319B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7A2E19B7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:03:22 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) please die --upas-lpcflwllgcpjopuwffcxajtysg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:07:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:07:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1203 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:07:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1199 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:07:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:07:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 194F419B92; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C6FF19B77; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:07:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49F0C19B55; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A759119B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B875A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:08:02 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:06:29 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This looks like the openbsd lists :-) Hugo On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 05:03 PM, David Presotto wrote: > You first > From: matt@proweb.co.uk > Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 5:03:22 PM Europe/Lisbon > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots > Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > > please die > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:09:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:09:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1248 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:09:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1244 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:09:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:09:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FB2119B75; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3728E19B7C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:09:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D857219B73; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB06A19B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95GFDa21176 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:13 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:15:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It has been proposed to only import those grids one likes. Unfortunatley this won't work unless you're intending to demand that others limit their expansion choices to your choices. I suspect most people won't 'like' you very much on that point. Let's assume that we have three grids named A, B, & C. A doesn't 'like' C, but B does. A 'likes' B. A <-> B <-> C is equivalent through transivity to: A <-> C Back to the drawing board on that one.... -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:11:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:11:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1317 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1313 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:11:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C68319ABB; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9B6019B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6596119B72; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBF1C19B6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43071c8a33a4beecd134ce507f7cc5d1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] latest plan9 and vmware4 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:09:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyone with similiar problems? If i boot from cd all is fine. In the VMware 4 setup, I bet you have an ATAPI CD-ROM set up configured to map to the real hardware CD-ROM drive. If so, you need to check the "Legacy Emulation" box in the configuration. This is one of the "features" of VMware 4 -- they broke the CD-ROM support in most of the guest operating systems and then gave us a checkbox to unbreak it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:11:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:11:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1324 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1320 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:11:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C10D19B8C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D69FB19B8E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DF7E19B79; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DC3419B6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95GGnv21188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:16:49 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:16:49 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Hugo Santos wrote: > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) It looks like every social group I've ever participated in ;) I suspect it's healthy when there is disagreement, and a sign of trouble when there isn't. Conflict motivates people to do things, though they sometimes get confused as to the exact line for what is acceptable. It's really no big deal, so long as P9 keeps growing! -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:11:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:11:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1331 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1327 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:11:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:11:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C0C219BB4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54D6019B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3D6A19B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB7A719B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 58984 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 16:10:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 3887 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 85684 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:05 -0400") Message-ID: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:06:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > We normally talk to our plan 9 imap server with netscape or > microsoft outlook. Thats nice, not because outlook but because that there are working clients out there. ;) > I haven't tried opera. We normally start it under tlssrv but I've also run it > without. If you don't manage to debug the problem, I'll bring up opera M2 > in a few days and give it a try. It isn't important so much but it would be nice. I'll test mozilla, kmail, gnus and mutt to. Maybe the result is worth a wiki page. Many thanks Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:14:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:14:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1375 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:14:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1371 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:14:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:14:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E8C419B77; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B092319B81; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D19ED19B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B79D19B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF755A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:14:55 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [9fans] latest plan9 and vmware4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <43071c8a33a4beecd134ce507f7cc5d1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:13:21 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thanks Russ, that did it. Hugo On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 05:09 PM, Russ Cox wrote: >> Anyone with similiar problems? If i boot from cd all is fine. > > In the VMware 4 setup, I bet you have an ATAPI CD-ROM set up > configured to map to the real hardware CD-ROM drive. If so, > you need to check the "Legacy Emulation" box in the configuration. > This is one of the "features" of VMware 4 -- they broke the > CD-ROM support in most of the guest operating systems and then > gave us a checkbox to unbreak it. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:16:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:16:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1478 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:16:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1474 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:16:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:16:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF9F719B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CA3819B3D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:16:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99EE819B82; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DCF819AF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:58 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I would like to work with all possible clients. I've had to change it a number of times to work with outlook and netscape. If there's something we do that bothers the others, I'ld like to know exactly what. IMAP is a big protocol and I know that at least some of my tweaks were to get around idiosyncrocies in the clients rather than bugs in the server. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:24:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:24:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1597 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:24:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1593 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:24:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:24:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2C2E19B92; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E20E19B57; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A0D619B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D45D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95GTnx21244 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:29:49 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:29:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Matthias Teege wrote: > It isn't important so much but it would be nice. I'll test mozilla, > kmail, gnus and mutt to. Maybe the result is worth a wiki page. Of course it is. To save the next person the time and effort of repeating the same old same old. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:24:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:24:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1622 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:24:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1618 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:24:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:24:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A38019B93; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B346019B81; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:24:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7ACAC199C0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BF9C19ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-obezgouclicdwbyqhllpikmeat" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-obezgouclicdwbyqhllpikmeat Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use Mozilla/Thunderbird as an IMAPS client talking to Plan 9 without trouble. I also use upas/fs to fetch mail via IMAPS from an elderly Exchange server. There was an issue with zero-length reads recently fixed in devtls. Eric --upas-obezgouclicdwbyqhllpikmeat Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.10]) by plan9; Sun Oct 5 12:11:56 EDT 2003 Received: from rusty.research.bell-labs.com (rusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.5]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h95GBs0C043778 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by rusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95GBqOs096746 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90B1A19B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B00B19B82; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:11:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3D6A19B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB7A719B81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 58984 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 16:10:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 3887 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 85684 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 16:06:00 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:05 -0400") Message-ID: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:06:00 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > We normally talk to our plan 9 imap server with netscape or > microsoft outlook. Thats nice, not because outlook but because that there are working clients out there. ;) > I haven't tried opera. We normally start it under tlssrv but I've also run it > without. If you don't manage to debug the problem, I'll bring up opera M2 > in a few days and give it a try. It isn't important so much but it would be nice. I'll test mozilla, kmail, gnus and mutt to. Maybe the result is worth a wiki page. Many thanks Matthias --upas-obezgouclicdwbyqhllpikmeat-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:27:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:27:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1707 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:27:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1703 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:27:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:27:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA44D19B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59EE019B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5CBA19B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D277C199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h95GQ89j016319 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:26:08 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h95GQ8bS016315 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:26:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:26:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) That transitive closure would work in the non-Plan 9 world. Luckily what we're designing is better: In the 9grid we envision, if somebody is from C they are still considered as a C client for any/all authentication purpouses even though they may be coming from B, or from [AD-Z] for that matter. So filtering C /lib/ndb/auth-style is still going to work, with or without trusting B. some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. andrey ps: there's a 9grid list where this could be continued. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:30:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:30:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1778 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:30:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1774 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:30:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:30:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DEC619B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 763A619B56; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:30:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 216F019B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D5EA199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h95GTO9j016331 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:29:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h95GTOvv016327 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:29:24 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:29:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > nmap does an incredibly bad job identifying whats behind plan 9 ports > because we're not worth their time to know about. At least it finds > the open ports, even though we often have different services there > than others do. nmap shows 564 as '9pfs': 564/tcp open 9pfs 566/tcp open streettalk 567/tcp open banyan-rpc that's a start... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:35:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:35:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1898 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:35:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1894 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:35:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:35:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2628719B3D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F91719B57; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:35:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 154BB19AD1; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D546519B27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95GexA21342 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:40:59 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:40:59 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > That transitive closure would work in the non-Plan 9 world. Luckily what > we're designing is better: > > In the 9grid we envision, if somebody is from C they are still considered > as a C client for any/all authentication purpouses even though they may > be coming from B, or from [AD-Z] for that matter. So filtering C > /lib/ndb/auth-style is still going to work, with or without trusting B. How would you know? Are you going to require that B authenticate all its exports through A? That's going to require a fully connected network between all nodes. Slow and tedious. Look into 'small networks'. So you're going to prevent anyone from acting as a proxy? Won't work, there are many sites that will require some degree of anonymity. > some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. What a snide and insulting response. Keep thinking. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:40:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:40:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2312 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:40:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2308 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:40:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:40:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88D6919B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D82F719B57; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:40:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1409519B22; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A5519A9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h95Gde9j016398 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:39:40 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h95GdekL016394 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:39:40 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:39:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > What a snide and insulting response. Just like a school bully somebody has slapped in the face -- you jump on everybody in sight looking for revenge... > Keep thinking. I will, but I refuse to do your thinking for you hereafter. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:52:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:52:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2819 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:52:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2815 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:52:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:52:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97E5619992; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8516519B3C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:52:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 617BD19A73; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3755419992 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95Gw7n21429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:07 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] And what about secure computing? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:58:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) One of the problems we've been looking at on H18 is how to handle security issues with regard to users programs and where they run. The current idea is that each process has a 'security' tag that sets some level of sensitivity with regard to public exposure. And then a 'trust' parameter for each machine or cluster of machines. So a site might have processes running at verious levels of 'security' and then assign them to clusters based on 'trust'. So internal accounting programs would run only on machines that had the highest trust level, whereas a webpage might be accessible to all and thus processes related to it might run in a public cluster of processors. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:54:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:54:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2855 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2851 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:54:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D284819B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEA5219B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1572419A01; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12FEA19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49a88ace9550f0d0dd0f6802396cbb42@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:55:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) IMAP is an example of what 9p *could* have been. Shudder! m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 01:55:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 01:55:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2928 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2924 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:55:26 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22D5419B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C80F519B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:55:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D5D119A01; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 834BD19B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95Gslj18325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051654.h95Gslj18325@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:37:43 +0200." <86r81rdcuw.fsf@gic.mteege.de> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:54:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias Teege writes: > > boyd@sdgm.net writes: > > > pop - highway to hell > > imap - superhighway to hell > > mut% nmap www.sdgm.net > > Starting nmap 3.27 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2003-10-05 15:34 CEST > Interesting ports on brahma.sdgm.net (64.32.179.49): > (The 1613 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) > Port State Service > 22/tcp open ssh > 25/tcp open smtp > 53/tcp open domain > 80/tcp open http > 110/tcp open pop-3 > 113/tcp open auth > 443/tcp open https > 567/tcp open banyan-rpc > 993/tcp open imaps > 17007/tcp open isode-dua > > I'm with you ... ;-) Umm, I own sdgm.net (the hardware, domain, etc), so it's configured the way *I* like it. Boyd just uses it. He's entitled to his opinions, but if you're making a judgement on those based on what services run on sdgm.net, you're doing so under false pretenses; it's really my opinions you're judging. :-) - Dan C. (Which, for the record, in this case are: Hey, a POP and IMAP server would be useful for the mostly non-Plan 9 types who use the system....) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:00:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:00:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3071 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:00:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3066 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:00:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:00:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 060C019B81; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6D8319B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:00:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8DC419B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8464719B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95H6Tq21482; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:06:29 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: , In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] The small world approach of H18 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:06:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What we envision is a agent has control of a auth server and some amount of resources they use for their own use. Each node has only a handfull of connections (we're looking at ln(#_conn) currently). Each node decides for itself what it wants to do. Encrypting the various connections between a node and the other nodes it connects to is critical. It needs to be the default instead of clear-text, clear-text needs to be supported for those who just must know what is going on. This approach is called 'small world networks' (or you know it as the Kevin Bacon Game). This means that the two gateway machines for two clusters would have a single shared key. All traffic would be wrapped in that. The actual data in the packets so wrapped would have keys based not only on apps (perhaps) but also the users. This provides several layers of anonymity, and in addition brings the DMCA in against those who try to crack the shell. H18 has decided that it's A's problem to manage it's connections, and B's problem to manage their connections. And there's no reason C needs to know anything about any of the A-B dealings, even if C happens to be carrying said traffic. We intend to fully support anonymity. Each node is the king of its own little kingdom, the connection between two kingdoms is a compromise between those two kingdoms and doesn't (and shouldn't) be extended to any other node. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:08:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:08:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3254 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:08:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3250 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:08:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:08:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43F2519A69; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE8DD19B5A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D64C119B77; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obrian.innerghost.net (a213-22-116-61.netcabo.pt [213.22.116.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EEAE19B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from users.sourceforge.net (haven.innerghost.net [192.168.1.10]) by obrian.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B0E5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:09:19 +0100 (WEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7077E01A-F756-11D7-869E-000A9579613E@users.sourceforge.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] fossil questions and more Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:07:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Now that i have a system using fossil running, i have some questions. I wish to have a setup that is something like: a cpu server, a auth server and a venti server, and then when i'm at home, i'll just boot my laptop from the network, but when i'm on the move, i wish to use it as a terminal, change files, and then sync them back to venti. My laptop is just one possible workstation, and there might be others. Is this possible with just 1 venti server? What should i do to setup something like this? Will i be able to have the same filesystem available to my laptop users (in this case just one) while in terminal as the one in the plan9 network? Thanks, Hugo From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:09:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:09:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3299 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3295 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:09:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04AEE19B7D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 929AE19B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:09:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11A0219B57; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DC2519B82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e9788389211a35add99032040c38ea0@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <200310051654.h95Gslj18325@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:04:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > pop - highway to hell > > imap - superhighway to hell if you're already in hell that woul dmake them the way out. Maybe would should offer X-Frame-of-Reference : In theory, theory and practice are the same. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:10:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:10:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3308 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:10:24 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3304 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:10:24 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:10:24 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15D1F19B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DA7219B82; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFFD219B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29A5C19B5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19914 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95H8nj18423 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051708.h95H8nj18423@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:55:45 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:08:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > > > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > > > > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 > > It's actually... > > cp /dev/screen /tmp/grab01 Umm, don't those do roughly the same thing? Sure, cp has a few additional bells and whistles, but the loops to actually copy the data are nearly identical. > Just another perfect example why this group is inbred. I guess you do't `speak C', as they say. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:12:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:12:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3375 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:12:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3371 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:12:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:12:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0613419B54; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16D4D19B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:12:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00A7719B1C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E113419B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95HHd421568 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:17:39 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: <200310051708.h95H8nj18423@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:17:39 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Umm, don't those do roughly the same thing? Try it. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:13:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:13:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3394 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:13:23 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3390 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:13:23 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:13:23 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35C6319B9B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C644419B92; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D1F519B57; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E7C319B1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22998 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95HBnj18465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051711.h95HBnj18465@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:59:51 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:11:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > Thank you very much for the clear and direct answer. I intend to include > this in future H18 How To's. Can I have your permission to credit you for > this? I love this guy. From the 9fans archives: ---- Return-Path: Received: from einstein.ssz.com (einstein.ssz.com [204.96.2.99]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38428199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:47:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA21056 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:01:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:01:50 -0600 (CST) >From: Jim Choate To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <3AA8196B.43C119F4@mail.usask.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Re: Inferno "wm/wm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: I didn't 'insult' anyone. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > are you sure you are insulting the right people? Have you considered suicide? ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Now he wants to credit him in a `paper' he's writing. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:23:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:23:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3550 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:23:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3546 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:23:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:23:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A86119B56; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0AD719B7D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:23:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC22E1999B; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9EBB19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95HSwv21618 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:28:58 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] cat v cp Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:28:58 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The problem with, cat /dev/screen > /tmp/screen01 went away after a reboot. At the same time, cp /dev/screen /tmp/screen02 worked just fine before the reboot. After a reboot they both behave the same. My box has been up about three weeks and I rebooted this morning as part of the testing of these. Hmmmm, something is getting out of sync over time. Once I'm done I'll do some long term testing and see if I can recreate reliably. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4202 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:51:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4198 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:51:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F75419B56; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 886AF19B76; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:51:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E861119B6D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CFED719B09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 60210 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 17:50:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4527 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 17:50:06 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 17:50:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 93646 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 17:50:06 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (Eric Grosse's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:23:07 -0400") Message-ID: <86wubjefqp.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 19:50:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Eric Grosse writes: > I use Mozilla/Thunderbird as an IMAPS client talking to > Plan 9 without trouble. Yes, my first success ;-) runs out of the box. Mutt now authenticate with Plan9/imap but has problems to open the folders. Maybe a config problem. Many thanks Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:51:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:51:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4227 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:51:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4223 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:51:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:51:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 639B219B9A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20DDC19B8E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:51:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9818519B09; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7A12B19B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 60207 invoked by uid 66); 5 Oct 2003 17:50:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4519 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 17:47:13 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 17:47:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 93472 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Oct 2003 17:47:12 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <200310051654.h95Gslj18325@augusta.math.psu.edu> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <200310051654.h95Gslj18325@augusta.math.psu.edu> (Dan Cross's message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:54:46 -0400") Message-ID: <861xtrfufz.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 19:47:12 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Dan Cross writes: > sdgm.net, you're doing so under false pretenses; it's really my opinions > you're judging. :-) Yes, my mistake ;-) > (Which, for the record, in this case are: Hey, a POP and IMAP server > would be useful for the mostly non-Plan 9 types who use the system....) Yes and that is exactly what I try to do. I plan to replace a lot of unix servers (pop/imap/smtp/http) with one plan9 network. For the non-Plan 9 guys I need support for the different clients. I can live with =ABmail=BB and as boyd says imap sucks. Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 02:57:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 02:57:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4321 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 02:57:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4317 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 02:57:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 02:57:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3960A19AC5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD25519B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BD8F19ABA; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D9519B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08435 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95HuUj18681 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051756.h95HuUj18681@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:03:40 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > > nmap does an incredibly bad job identifying whats behind plan 9 ports > because we're not worth their time to know about. At least it finds > the open ports, even though we often have different services there > than others do. I don't know about that; if Matthias's list was complete, nmap missed about four open ports I have running pure Plan 9 services (rexexec, cpu, etc). However, he did show me that I had a pop3 running that I didn't want (which I've now turned off. Thanks, Matthias!). Then again, I don't suppose nmap scans every possible port i in Z_65536. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 03:00:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 03:00:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4355 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 03:00:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4351 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 03:00:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 03:00:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B03019B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CE7D19B89; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:00:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBC2E19B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D98C19ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11569 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95HxYj18748 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051759.h95HxYj18748@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:06:29 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:59:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hugo Santos writes: > > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) No there isn't enough megalomania for it to be an OpenBSD list. Oh, wait, Choate provides all that. Nevermind; I stand corrected. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 03:02:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 03:02:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4411 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4407 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 03:02:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD0A819B9A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D2519B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:02:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDF5F19ABA; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FC8F19B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95I10j18787 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051801.h95I10j18787@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:15:13 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:01:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > It has been proposed to only import those grids one likes. Unfortunatley > this won't work unless you're intending to demand that others limit their > expansion choices to your choices. I suspect most people won't 'like' you > very much on that point. > > Let's assume that we have three grids named A, B, & C. > > A doesn't 'like' C, but B does. A 'likes' B. > > A <-> B <-> C > > is equivalent through transivity to: > > A <-> C > > Back to the drawing board on that one.... Umm, who ever said import was transitive? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 03:08:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 03:08:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4565 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 03:08:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4560 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 03:08:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 03:08:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 150F819B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DD4419B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D708F19B80; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D4BA19B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95I7Bj18865 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051807.h95I7Bj18865@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] And what about secure computing? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:58:07 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:07:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > One of the problems we've been looking at on H18 is how to handle security > issues with regard to users programs and where they run. > > The current idea is that each process has a 'security' tag that sets some > level of sensitivity with regard to public exposure. And then a 'trust' > parameter for each machine or cluster of machines. > > So a site might have processes running at verious levels of 'security' and > then assign them to clusters based on 'trust'. So internal accounting > programs would run only on machines that had the highest trust level, > whereas a webpage might be accessible to all and thus processes related to > it might run in a public cluster of processors. Dude, have you actually implemented a SINGLE THING yet? All you do is posture and make bombastic claims, but this `hangar 18' thing has been around for what, over a year now, and hasn't produced one single thing of merit. I know this is going to come as a shock to you, so brace yourself: No one listens to you, because you're all talk. If you had produced something six months ago, maybe some people would have listened. But you didn't. So you've lost all credibility. Now would you please get lost? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 03:10:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 03:10:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4577 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 03:10:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4573 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 03:10:27 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 03:10:27 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD51119B9C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 309E219B98; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:10:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0489B19B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6335319AC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21491 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95I9Ij18898 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051809.h95I9Ij18898@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:17:39 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:09:18 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > Try it. I did. Worked for me. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 03:36:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 03:36:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5040 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 03:36:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5036 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 03:36:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 03:36:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B9B319B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89AFE19B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:36:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0567F19B6D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C863119A3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95IgJh21910; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:42:19 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: <200310051801.h95I10j18787@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:42:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Umm, who ever said import was transitive? It's the export of the import, and Plan 9 has transivity built into it. Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person doing the export to the next person doing the export. That makes it transitive. Once the person can get the bits they can send them out without the source even being aware (eg proxy). Further, without this sort of transivity the utility of grid computing (especially in a public sharing context) is pretty much nil. Among other things it causes way too much network traffic. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 04:14:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 04:14:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5929 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 04:14:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5925 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 04:14:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 04:14:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2B3519B8E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1267019B98; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FC8919B6C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CB4A19B77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots (putting things in perspective) From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ntxfqzokntbfjxcsjlmtmhkmos" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:13:26 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ntxfqzokntbfjxcsjlmtmhkmos Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for those of you who find the usefulness of /dev/screen questionable and would like to see (in the good ol' unix tradition) a special-purpose tool whose only job is to take a screenshot and write it do stdout, i present the 'screenshot' utility attached. note, to be compliant with various lunixes you may need to copy it as 'snapshot', 'screengrab', 'grabscreen', 'screendump', 'snap' and 'xv -grab -root -quit' so there will be no confusion among those used to different unix variants. i'll start working on the gui as soon as i'm done adding the -v option. cheers, andrey to compile: % 8c -FVw screenshot.c % 8l screenshot.8 to use: % 8.out | page here's the man page: SCREENSHOT(1) SCREENSHOT(1) NAME screenshot - take a snapshot of the current display. SYNOPSIS screenshot DESCRIPTION Screenshot takes a snap of the current display and writes it as an image(6) format to standard output. SEE ALSO graphics(2),rio(1) BUGS Lacks a '-v' option. If the display is updated while the image is being written out the machine crashes and requires several reboots. --upas-ntxfqzokntbfjxcsjlmtmhkmos Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=screenshot.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include #include #include void main() { initdraw(nil, nil, "choatesnap"); writeimage(1, display->image, 0); exits(""); } --upas-ntxfqzokntbfjxcsjlmtmhkmos-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 04:27:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 04:27:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6272 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 04:27:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6268 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 04:27:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 04:27:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE5FA19B97; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66EAC19B91; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:27:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E34819AF1; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8481E19AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00307; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95JPhj19396; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051925.h95JPhj19396@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: hangar18-general@open-forge.org Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:42:19 CDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:25:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate writes: > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > Umm, who ever said import was transitive? > > It's the export of the import, and Plan 9 has transivity built into it. > Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person > doing the export to the next person doing the export. That makes it > transitive. Once the person can get the bits they can send them out > without the source even being aware (eg proxy). Uhh. I import into a namespace. I can export another namespace that doesn't include whatever I imported. So import doesn't have to be `transitive,' as I said. Your analogy with NFS doesn't make sense, because in Unix-land (where I assume you're talking about), you have a single, global namespace. Not so in Plan 9. > Further, without this sort of transivity the utility of grid computing > (especially in a public sharing context) is pretty much nil. Among other > things it causes way too much network traffic. Uh, okay. Note to the world: I've finally started filtering out Choate. Hooray! I get to join the rest of the masses in ignoring his inanities! - Dan C. (Actually, I'm filtering him into another folder, so that I have something to laugh at every now and again when I'm feeling bored.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 04:31:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 04:31:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6344 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 04:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6340 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 04:31:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 04:31:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D84BF19AC4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 506B419B98; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E062F19B77; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA80C19AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95JbUQ22148; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:37:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: <200310051925.h95JPhj19396@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:37:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Uhh. I import into a namespace. I can export another namespace that > doesn't include whatever I imported. So import doesn't have to be > `transitive,' as I said. Dan, you're creating a strawman. Changing the point of discussion and then claiming it's the same. Your assertion as to what I said is simply wrong. Further, what you do doesn't map to everyone else's needs. So sad. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 04:55:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 04:55:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6715 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 04:55:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6711 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 04:55:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 04:55:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FC8919A0C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A441E19B77; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:55:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75BAA19A27; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C06E219A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 975C366B2C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server Message-ID: <20031005195431.GI834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <200310051756.h95HuUj18681@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310051756.h95HuUj18681@augusta.math.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:31 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:56:30PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > David Presotto writes: > > > > nmap does an incredibly bad job identifying whats behind plan 9 ports > > because we're not worth their time to know about. At least it finds > > the open ports, even though we often have different services there > > than others do. > > I don't know about that; if Matthias's list was complete, nmap missed > about four open ports I have running pure Plan 9 services (rexexec, > cpu, etc). However, he did show me that I had a pop3 running that I > didn't want (which I've now turned off. Thanks, Matthias!). Then > again, I don't suppose nmap scans every possible port i in Z_65536. nmap, by default, doesn't check all ports; just most of the well-known ports. you can set a command line switch to have it check specific ranges. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 06:47:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 06:47:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8384 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 06:47:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8380 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 06:47:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 06:47:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 110CF19B9D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F82D19B89; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CBA0199D7; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E17819980 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62b7f5143b97a535c09b7e42d86dfa80@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:44:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Just like NFS does. The transivity isn't in the control of the person this touches an old nerve: NFS didn't (at least in Sun's implementation). indeed, it limited exports to a physical file system, so that every machine needed to know the mounting hierarchy of every other. scales up well, as you can well imagine! anyhow, to get transitivity, you need to work at it (patches possibly available on request, if i can find them in my archive) and even then it doesn't work completely (but it's much better than nothing), until you patch the clients... one annoying thing is that it never became part of the traditional Jumbo Patch. still, you're right: NFS could have done that, and perhaps the suenix re-implementations do. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 06:54:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 06:54:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8576 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8572 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 06:54:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6D2419BB3; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9938619B97; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2197A19B97; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (smtp.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5D15F19AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6170 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 21:53:09 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 21:53:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031006105114.00afb998@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons In-Reply-To: <62b7f5143b97a535c09b7e42d86dfa80@caldo.demon.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:52:57 +1300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) 300M is a flaw in the first stone. The transivity isn't in the late 1800's and how that maps onto new technology. As to megalomania, I'd say your behaviour is more akin to thinking oneself to be based on principle and not more criminal but examples of both abound. My response, as with you butthead, is to find better ways, this means those who stick to the next reprobate. I don't start it but I'll damn well finish it if I cause damage in a theatre, even with speech. The point of the most snide and stupid comments I've ever heard from a commercial rep to a world where business now controls the very system that was the growth of socialism in the first place. When somebody abuses that then nail their scummy ass to the VN rep who made one of the goals of this country the pursuit of happiness. Don't address the issue, but the people who did the person accountable for their behavior yet doesn't recognize that other electrons acting in proxy for that person in that example who was without sind od? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 06:54:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 06:54:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8583 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 06:54:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8579 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 06:54:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 06:54:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 982EB19BA8; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9BBB19BAD; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8637919AC4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B2D4199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12ff5c604eb9a4d19d3ca176384ac632@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <200310051756.h95HuUj18681@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kokuusiyqgdufbrdgopfxieooi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:51:00 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kokuusiyqgdufbrdgopfxieooi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i just use netstat (on each separate interface as required). i believe it finds all the ports and that way at least i surprise myself! --upas-kokuusiyqgdufbrdgopfxieooi Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A6D8M-0000mB-6N; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:57:31 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A6D8M-0000mB-6N for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:57:31 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3960A19AC5; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD25519B8A; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BD8F19ABA; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9D9519B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08435 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h95HuUj18681 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310051756.h95HuUj18681@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:03:40 EDT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:56:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > > nmap does an incredibly bad job identifying whats behind plan 9 ports > because we're not worth their time to know about. At least it finds > the open ports, even though we often have different services there > than others do. I don't know about that; if Matthias's list was complete, nmap missed about four open ports I have running pure Plan 9 services (rexexec, cpu, etc). However, he did show me that I had a pop3 running that I didn't want (which I've now turned off. Thanks, Matthias!). Then again, I don't suppose nmap scans every possible port i in Z_65536. - Dan C. --upas-kokuusiyqgdufbrdgopfxieooi-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 06:58:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 06:58:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8693 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 06:58:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8689 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 06:58:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 06:58:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54AC919BA0; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 872DE19B9D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:58:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85E0A19B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FE8319AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h95M3dJ22774 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:03:39 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: <62b7f5143b97a535c09b7e42d86dfa80@caldo.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:03:39 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > still, you're right: NFS could have done that, and perhaps the suenix > re-implementations do. NFS has been doing that for at least two yeas on Solaris, HP/UX, and AIX. Might want to review the man pages. When I used to work for Tivoli we had to make sure this was turned off because of some low level sys call conflicts with Tivoli during installs from NFS images. Wasn't a big deal since most sites didn't see it as very usefull. In a public namespace/filesystem context however the importance changes dramatically. If you don't allow transitivity in the mounts (and lazy-update is another must have in the real world) then the source servers get completely bogged down. Just imagine trying to export the Gutenburg Project by forcing everyone to go to the project itself. By using this technology a handfull of sites around the country could make the primary connections and then export those out to their immediate region. Then as users hit the second level server, only files that have never been hit before (or have changed content even one bit) need be re-propogated. This whole 'a few sites share to another set of few sites' is the heart of 'small world networks'. It allows the network to scale without traffic growing with it, provided the number of connections per node is not too small or too large. Sort of like Goldilocks ;) -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 07:14:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 07:14:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9021 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 07:14:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9017 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 07:14:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 07:14:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD41A19B9D; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5195E19B62; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B56D619A7F; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B623C19AF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16735040cee7694e1da0c313f30f7c2f@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:10:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>NFS has been doing that for at least two yeas on Solaris, HP/UX, and AIX. >>Might want to review the man pages. When I used to work for Tivoli we had that would explain it. our solaris system `pazzo' is older than that. much had changed even then. i see that `exporting' is out, and `sharing' is in. quite. very touchy-feely. actually, that was one of the things about Sun's Joyless announcement that worried me a bit: something about him instilling something in the hearts --and souls-- [emphasis mine] of those working for Sun. what WAS going on there? even my friends who worked for Microsoft never spoke of anything like that. (it was always about shares or share options with them.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 07:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 07:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9636 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 07:43:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9632 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 07:43:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 07:43:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F0B819B84; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9045119B8E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C84919B6E; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A414F19A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18309 invoked by uid 991); 5 Oct 2003 22:42:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20031005224205.18308.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] From the writings of Mark V. Choatey In-reply-to: <5.1.1.6.0.20031006105114.00afb998@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031006105114.00afb998@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> Comments: In-reply-to Andrew Simmons message dated "Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:52:57 +1300." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:42:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ok, enough is enough. Let's please keep the flames out of 9fans. They're off topic, and just plain boring. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 10:49:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 10:49:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17440 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 10:49:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17436 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 10:49:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 10:49:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA59619AC4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DB5119B6C; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13B1C19AC4; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D472B199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8986 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 01:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 01:48:01 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h961m0L303780; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:48:00 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcfs as a user-level server? From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:47:52 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) sorry everyone for my confusing word `pcfs'. I meant the old worm file server by that as Russ kindly mentioned. Thank you all. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 15:47:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 15:47:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2560 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 15:47:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2495 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 15:46:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 15:46:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D10D19B8E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 837D619B9D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B56B19B82; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB06719ACE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 02:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9688B103715; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:08:11 -0400 Received: from 172.193.184.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2068.172.193.184.162.1065427691.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <0dd70d22f88d7f6d4dcc49c0a2b9f009@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cc: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:08:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I happened to read an article in Fortune magazine. Thought of sharing it to you: http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,490598-1,00.html Regards dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:12:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:12:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10244 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:12:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10239 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:12:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:12:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBABE199E3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 677BE19BAC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:12:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 540B619B98; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5CD119B6C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <664dbf406c8a05abab66463da04d60fd@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:11:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) bloody 'gaijin' crispin and that IMAP abortion. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:15:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:15:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10337 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:15:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10333 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:15:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:15:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2274119BBE; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAC7A19BBB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDC2A19BB9; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A7BE19BA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8701cf91edc9e6485575288a049bfeef@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:14:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) some of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about it. i'm with you captain .... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:16:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:16:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10383 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10379 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:16:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4003519BBB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FA1D19BC2; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C603C19BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFC6019BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RFn-0000Wf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:02:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <2c57.3f7daf65.8372b@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <20030926154600.P19995@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, <9cac6a9142de412903ed4df2868d18f4@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:01:32 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi David, > > if everyone charged a small sum (e.g. $.01) for each item of > > incoming mail from an address that's not on their whitelist, the > > spammers might find it hard going. > > It's been proposed often. One possible way to do it is to do > something computationally difficult to slow the home spammer down. If > it takes a long time to send each message, it would stop being useful. > You could even drop the requirement for servers you like so that it > doesn't slow down all communication. hashcash is an example. http://www.cypherspace.org/hashcash/ Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:16:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:16:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10392 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10388 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:16:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AAAF19BE6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F7B219BCB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09DC519BC0; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC48D19BAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RFn-0000Wr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:02:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20031004153832.55313EC7C3@edoras.nas.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:02:03 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jack Johnson wrote: > WAY OT, I've always been pissed that concealed carry laws don't allow > chemical sprays or knives. Some of them do, and in many jurisdictions no license is required for those. > One could argue that concealed carry is > about the perception of security rather than true security, ... Not really; it's about being prepared for the worst case. When a bad guy starts shooting people do you want to be armed with a knife? If a bad guy pulls a knife at some distance, probably a gun will suffice to stop him, but if you get involved in a knife-to-knife fight, you can expect to be hurt. Pepper spray is too often ineffective to be one's defensive weapon of choice. It may be reasonable to expect police to be prepared with a range of options for level of force employed, but it's going to far to expect civilians to carry such an array of equipment. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:16:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:16:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10406 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10402 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:16:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:16:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CC3519BF6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C096719BD8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2F9519BAA; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8F5519BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RGJ-0000Xw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:02:39 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <3afe.3f805918.d2234@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:02:22 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Jim, > > This looks like the openbsd lists :-) > > It looks like every social group I've ever participated in ;) Ever get bored by them all being the same? > I suspect it's healthy when there is disagreement, and a sign of > trouble when there isn't. Yes, when the disagreement is about technically interesting things, or even about the colours chosen for the windows and why. And when the disagreement is expressed politely with justification. But not the gobby name-calling that c.o.plan9 often descends into these days. > It's really no big deal, so long as P9 keeps growing! Plan 9 can keep growing without c.o.plan9 being like all the other social groups you've participiated in. ;-) Cheers, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:17:12 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:17:12 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10414 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:17:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10410 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:17:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:17:12 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8780319BD8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A50C219BE1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D726719BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C909119B7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RFn-0000Wl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:02:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: kim kubik Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <200310031632.h93GWUj06889@augusta.math.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:01:44 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rminnich@lanl.gov (ron minnich) wrote in message > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > > > I don't know about you, but if *I* saw a solid gold heat sink, I'd > > buy it, take it home, melt it down, and sell it at a bank, and then > > replace it with something made out of some other metal. > I worked at HP as in intern in the good old (gold) days when many HP divs > made their own boards. There was a room in it with lotsa gold bars for the > boards. Alright, I checked best I could, it seems to have been a large chunk of copper (no wonder I don't have any money: "Wow, you'll give me ALL those pennies for this little handful of gold coins?"). But I still remember the badges reading, "The Joy of SUN", part of the company's nascant marketing effort. Too bad they can't do anything now. ---------------------------------------------- First some info on the original HP 9000 series and cpu: www.gaby.de/e9ktxt.htm www.openpa.net/history.html and two postings from people with functioning brain cells: =============================== A little bit of HP 9000 history: The 500 series, announced 12/1982: Deep down inside they ran an OS called SunOS, before Sun Microsystems existed. On top of that they ran either HP-UX or HP Basic. These were based on HP's own 32bit 1.um NMOS CPU, it was the first 32bit microprocessor. 1.um might not sound that much, but the company I worked for at the time had just got there 5.um technology out of the labs and sent it to production, and we weren't that far behind the big boys. The HP9000 model 520 was a workstation, before the name existed. It had so many fans in it that if you put one on a trolly it would move around the lab. Heat was such a problem on these chips, that the whole of the MB was a large copper heat sink. ========================================== Newsgroups: net.works Date: 1982-12-12 HP's SuperDesktop System, the HP9000 Today in Palo Alto, Hewlett Packard presented a seminar highlighting Computer Aided Engineering applications of its small computer products. The HP9000 is obviously HP's new pride and joy. One of the presentations had been a glossy video taped presentation which recounted some of the history of the 9000. HP's primary representative, Mike Radisich of HP Ft. Collins CO (the home of the 9000), introduced the video tape. The 9000 is described by HP as a real technological breakthrough. The HP processor chips are not mounted in ceramic or plastic casings to be attached to boards. Rather, the little (1/4") chips themselves are mounted directly on the teflon coated copper boards. Using this technique, the 9000 boards pack a great deal of power into a small area. For example, the memory boards support 256KB of memory in an area of approximately 30 square inches. In that area are mounted, 16 memory chips as well as some other interface and integrity support chips. The copper substratum of the boards is required to help dissipate heat. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:17:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:17:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10431 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:17:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10427 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:17:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:17:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3B5419BCF; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87D3D19BE3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:17:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D42B19B7A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF11C19BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RFB-0000Vd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:01:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <2889.3f7d9e85.4e7aa@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:01:20 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi David, > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > email, we're screwed. What I don't understand is why the worms don't trigger some harm at some point in the future, like setting the hard drive password to a random string. Requiring the `master' password from the drive manufacturer or OEM would cause enourmous amounts of hassle. The worm would have meanwhile re-produced elsewhere so its not `shooting itself in the head'. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:24:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:24:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10724 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:24:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10718 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:24:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:24:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C05DA19B98; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08E6819BC8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C36EE19BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A9819B98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <586a7b4bfb440dd5611828112e81a745@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <2c57.3f7daf65.8372b@blake.inputplus.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:22:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) double edged sword. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:31:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:31:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11023 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11019 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:31:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:31:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A86719BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9A6F19BC8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46BAE19BC4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DE3719B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a6947fba578570dfacd178fa5ebcae6@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Pepper spray is too often ineffective to be one's defensive weapon of choice. that even extends to guns. the T may still be up for a 'while', depending on a number of factors. It may be reasonable to expect police to be prepared with a range of options for level of force employed, but it's going to far to expect civilians to carry such an array of equipment. you need escalation (in general). pepper got me out of an L shaped ambush one night -- stand off range; it wasn't amazingly effective, but it worked [tactically]. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:31:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:31:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11030 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:31:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11026 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:31:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:31:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B40519C07; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBD0D19BF1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 562B619BA7; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EB1DE19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 68953 invoked by uid 66); 6 Oct 2003 09:31:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7841 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 56814 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Oct 2003 09:30:07 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:05 -0400") Message-ID: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:30:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > without. If you don't manage to debug the problem, I'll bring up opera M2 > in a few days and give it a try. I've made a snapshot of the opera/imap conversation. Opera has problems to fetch the message. * OK coco IMAP4rev1 server ready 3 CAPABILITY * CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 3 OK CAPABILITY 4 AUTHENTICATE CRAM-MD5 + PGI5N2Q5MDRlMTVjNWZhYmIuOWYzZjUzNTliYzU5ZGM3M0Bjb2NvPg== bXRnIDBmMmQzNWI3NTBmM2Q2YzBmYjA1OWYzZGQwYTM1ZGZk 4 OK AUTHENTICATE 5 STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES UIDNEXT RECENT) * STATUS (MESSAGES 1 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 85) 5 OK STATUS completed 6 SELECT INBOX * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 1 exists * 0 recent * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 85] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065365553] 6 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT INBOX completed 7 FETCH 1:* (UID FLAGS) * 1 FETCH (uid 48) * 1 fetch (flags (\Seen)) 7 OK FETCH completed 8 UID FETCH 0 (UID FLAGS RFC822.SIZE RFC822.HEADER) 8 BAD UID bad syntax Mutt fetches the header of the messages but has problems with the format. I get a listing of the folders in mutt and kmail but both cant display the messages. * OK coco IMAP4rev1 server ready a0000 CAPABILITY * CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 a0000 OK CAPABILITY a0001 AUTHENTICATE CRAM-MD5 + PDlkNWFiNzY5NDBmNWNmOTkuYmExYTdiZTY1Y2MyMjc5QGNvY28+ bXRnIGQzNGNkNTY0YjM4NDI3YTUxMmM3MWI3NDQ4ZmVjZjYz a0001 OK AUTHENTICATE a0002 LIST "" "" * LIST (\Noselect) "/" "" a0002 OK LIST a0003 SELECT "INBOX/" * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 1 exists * 0 recent * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 85] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065365553] a0003 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT INBOX completed a0004 FETCH 1:1 (UID FLAGS INTERNALDATE RFC822.SIZE BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (DATE FROM SUBJECT TO CC MESSAGE-ID REFERENCES CONTENT-TYPE IN-REPLY-TO REPLY-TO LINES X-LABEL)]) * 1 FETCH (uid 48 internaldate " 5-Oct-2003 16:50:44 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2518 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {356} Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:58 -0400 ) * 1 fetch (flags (\Seen)) a0004 OK FETCH completed a0005 NAMESPACE * namespace (("" "/")) nil nil a0005 OK NAMESPACE completed a0006 LIST "" "%" * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" INBOX * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" presotto * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" steve.simon * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" cross * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" jmk * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" rsc * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" matthias * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" fst * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" somefile * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" arisawa * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" stored * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" Trash * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" mirtchov * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" vdharani a0006 OK LIST completed a0007 SELECT "arisawa" * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 2 exists * 0 recent * OK [UNSEEN 1] * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 3] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065290476] a0007 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT arisawa completed a0008 FETCH 1:2 (UID FLAGS INTERNALDATE RFC822.SIZE BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (DATE FROM SUBJECT TO CC MESSAGE-ID REFERENCES CONTENT-TYPE IN-REPLY-TO REPLY-TO LINES X-LABEL)]) * 1 FETCH (uid 1 internaldate "30-Sep-2003 03:07:13 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2574 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {367} Subject: Re: [9fans] cpdir Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:44:18 +0900 ) * 2 FETCH (uid 2 internaldate " 3-Oct-2003 11:40:34 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2572 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {357} Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <115AB500-F596-11D7-BEBE-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Subject: [9fans] Pegasus 2.0b Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:38:11 +0900 ) * 1 fetch (flags ()) * 2 fetch (flags ()) a0008 OK FETCH completed a0009 LOGOUT * bye a0009 OK LOGOUT completed Read the imap rfc will take some time. ;-) Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:33:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:33:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11115 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:33:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11111 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:33:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:33:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E2A219BE4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A77B19BDC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE54A19BE1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B87219BA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <050e0e6b24bc07351ce8cc0b9563eec3@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:32:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) not the 9000, please ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:46:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:46:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11631 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11627 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 288CE19BE6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2013819BC3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43E1A19BA7; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6024019BC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RvG-0001D9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:58 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brian Inglis Message-ID: <4oj0ovghs2osuq3jgtb6gf56igbtcm4gt2@4ax.com> Organization: Systematic Software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031004153832.55313EC7C3@edoras.nas.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:44:47 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 15:45:56 GMT in comp.os.plan9, fragment@nas.com (Jack Johnson) wrote: >"boyd, rounin" wrote: >> bbtw. this is way OT, but you _do not_ fuck around with firearms. > >Still OT, but well said & spoken. > >As a former member, I only wish more people like you could be in charge >of the NRA. > >-J > >P.S. > >WAY OT, I've always been pissed that concealed carry laws don't allow >chemical sprays or knives. One could argue that concealed carry is >about the perception of security rather than true security, so allowing >a trained citizen to carry something that helps them feel secure but >disallowing arms that might have a more limited lethal range -- or be >non-lethal -- seems asinine. wear your hiking boots and carry bear spray at all times Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:49:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:49:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11716 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:49:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11712 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:49:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:49:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B9DF19B84; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FFFA19BC8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA46219B98; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23C3A19B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8164db20e9f56222ed11ca584eb83a99@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Observation about sharing network/grid In-Reply-To: <200310051925.h95JPhj19396@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:47:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Note to the world: I've finally started filtering out Choate. Hooray! I get to join the rest of the masses in ignoring his inanities! yeah, spamoff has a 'trash' function now. i could just add it in or change one line and bounce 'em. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 18:57:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 18:57:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12033 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 18:56:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12024 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 18:56:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 18:56:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF38319BC3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D89919BF1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:56:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A578419BC3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A29219B98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The small world approach of H18 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:55:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) where is my DSM IV? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:00:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:00:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12200 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:00:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12196 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:00:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:00:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3709E19C0B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3BA319BF1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:00:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6009C19BF0; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C182D19B98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80c763564aa3737334843bd11fc4cc40@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <200310051654.h95Gslj18325@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:58:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Umm, I own sdgm.net (the hardware, domain, etc), so it's configured the way *I* like it. i _like_ it. i can drawterm across [no pun intended] the atlantic and dan has done it it the way i would do it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:07:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:07:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12415 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:07:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12411 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:07:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:07:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC13819B77; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 573C519BF3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:07:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0A8119BE1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:06:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4E3C19B77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20f7fb23ff2f9f876f79b937ce12cdb4@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:03:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>It may be reasonable to expect police to be prepared with >>a range of options for level of force employed, but it's >>going to far to expect civilians to carry such an array of >>equipment. our police still (for the most part) speak softly and carry a stick. is that true anywhere else? on the whole, it still seems to work. ``an armed constabulary is a sign of weak Law''. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:10:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:10:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12558 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:10:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12553 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:10:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:10:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15AB619C1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EBD219BFF; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9885419BF4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B89319BBC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5082e6abc5473ac9231081539df2423c@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20f7fb23ff2f9f876f79b937ce12cdb4@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) untrue. they have S0-19 and a buncha cars with MP5's etc in 'em. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:10:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:10:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12586 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:10:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12582 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:10:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:10:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C015F19C25; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB69B19C0C; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96C6B19BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B410A19BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <96e1b83e39c12f6fde32722f47b18fa4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:09:46 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> > cat /dev/screen > /tmp/grab01 > > Try that under drawterm and you get a screen full of 1's and 0's. Very > ugly. That's why I love computer science, it's all 1s and 0s. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:27:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:27:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13027 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13023 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:27:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:27:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D901419C0F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 486DA19BF3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CC6C19BF3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 037DF199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <989527903cff3f417e470cfba22e3e95@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <5082e6abc5473ac9231081539df2423c@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pcfmbcflttasutvptstocbmhnl" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:24:01 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pcfmbcflttasutvptstocbmhnl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's why i wrote >(there are specially-trained groups when something more is needed.) except that for some reason that wasn't in the message as posted! in the main, though, they do indeed not carry firearms. --upas-pcfmbcflttasutvptstocbmhnl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A6SK5-0002kL-ET; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:10:37 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A6SK5-0002kL-ET for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:10:37 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15AB619C1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EBD219BFF; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9885419BF4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B89319BBC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5082e6abc5473ac9231081539df2423c@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20f7fb23ff2f9f876f79b937ce12cdb4@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:09:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) untrue. they have S0-19 and a buncha cars with MP5's etc in 'em. --upas-pcfmbcflttasutvptstocbmhnl-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:29:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:29:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13064 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:29:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13060 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:29:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:29:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9B7C19C09; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C9E619C00; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42EB219BF4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AAC6199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h96AT08G023755 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:29:00 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7E@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Thread-Index: AcOL8jj0qQ1NgtJXSweyzEWoD1m6fwAAOekQ From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:28:36 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >untrue. they have S0-19 and a buncha cars with MP5's etc in 'em. Completely OT, but what the hell. We're already there anyway :) Guns present a problem tied inherently to the human nature and thus not solvable by social rules. There are basically two approaches that have apparently worked in the past: (1) you allow them for everyone; and (2) you rule them out completely. (1) seems to be the preffered = style of countries where freedom is (or was) appreciated, while (2) is the way of the big brother. Neither works for extended periods of time, but then again, no system does because of the way human society is fluctuating. Maybe we need a new kind of law that is not rigid but follows the=20 ups and downs of the Herd closely. Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:32:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:32:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13164 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:32:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13160 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:32:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:32:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18C4919BFD; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0896A19C04; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:32:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0BFF19A69; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90101199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h96AVBXr023792 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:31:12 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7F@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Thread-Index: AcOL9HxNBqRajJZUQ4+T1lO7XQbYDQAAC8Rw From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:30:47 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >except that for some reason that wasn't in the message as posted! i've experienced this, too: sometimes (complete) sentences disappear. anybody else? Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:44:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:44:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13640 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:44:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13636 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:44:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:44:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D935119C31; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E19F819C16; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7335819C11; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A28919BAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67cb762c067efa06acd6ce126fda649b@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7F@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-trvzmobtynswspbcolhrcjidir" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:40:43 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-trvzmobtynswspbcolhrcjidir Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've always supposed that, as in this case, i did write something, then shuffled things round to change the wording, but accidentally failed to paste in something i'd intended to say. --upas-trvzmobtynswspbcolhrcjidir Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A6SfK-0002xo-Eo; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:37:14 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A6SfK-0002xo-Eo for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:32:34 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18C4919BFD; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0896A19C04; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:32:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0BFF19A69; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90101199B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h96AVBXr023792 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:31:12 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7F@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Thread-Index: AcOL9HxNBqRajJZUQ4+T1lO7XQbYDQAAC8Rw From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:30:47 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >except that for some reason that wasn't in the message as posted! i've experienced this, too: sometimes (complete) sentences disappear. anybody else? Tiit --upas-trvzmobtynswspbcolhrcjidir-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:44:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:44:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13648 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:44:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13644 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:44:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:44:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98CC519C04; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 688A219C2B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11DFC19C11; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73DCB19C00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <989527903cff3f417e470cfba22e3e95@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:43:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ok, they don't carry, well SO-19 does. but an MP5 in a car is still pretty serious. anyway this is way off topic, but: 1. carry a firearm 2. wear a vest From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 19:45:28 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 19:45:28 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13657 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 19:45:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13653 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 19:45:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 19:45:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C29C19C37; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D314519C2A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:45:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E4B219C26; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8738819C16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <251ad47ab91f9da871dfc918e7e5d9fb@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C7E@black.aprote.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:44:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i have a 3rd solution, but i do like the 2nd ammendement. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 20:08:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 20:08:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14280 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 20:08:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14276 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 20:08:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 20:08:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A4C419BBE; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D0E219C22; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EBE519BBE; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idoru.mine.nu (cpc2-cdif1-6-0-cust172.cdif.cable.ntl.com [80.3.231.172]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CBF419BBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rasputin by idoru.mine.nu with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A6TCb-0000Dl-2g for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:06:57 +0100 From: Rasputin To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio Message-ID: <20031006110657.GA24183@lb.tenfour> References: <20031003190342.GA2096@lb.tenfour> <7726fcaef79afbe86c5a39b406ac9bde@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7726fcaef79afbe86c5a39b406ac9bde@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: Rasputin List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:06:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) * jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com [1022 20:22]: > On Fri Oct 3 15:04:53 EDT 2003, rasputin@idoru.mine.nu wrote: > > ... > > So if I can get up to the latest driver, I'm set, right? > > > > [ Sorry if that's a stupid question, I'm not sure if by > > 'current driver' you mean the 4th ed. release, or if I need to upgrade. ] > > ... > > I'm not sure if it was in the 4th Ed. or not, but it should be > in the current downloads (Intel i81x). Ah, thanks - since my last post I found the plan9-new source snapshot ISO, and that's helped. The installer now inits the graphics card , but only wants to use the first dozen rows of the display (jokes about ed being vi through a letterboux jump up and bite me on the ass once more). I'll try random variations on res/colour depth tonight unless this rings bells with anyone? -- It's the thought, if any, that counts! Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 20:12:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 20:12:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14483 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 20:12:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14479 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 20:12:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 20:12:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 389B919C1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94D4519C31; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEA1019C21; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A53619C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6b61f8f3a9500c18d78e5afb7ee8db3d@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio In-Reply-To: <20031006110657.GA24183@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:11:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) start with the lowest colour depth and then go higher. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 20:31:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 20:31:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14895 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 20:31:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14891 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 20:31:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 20:31:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD9F119BF2; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8550919BCC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBBE019BB3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E308419C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6TOu-0002rN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:19:40 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <124e.3f813d05.b3ff5@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <2c57.3f7daf65.8372b@blake.inputplus.co.uk>, <586a7b4bfb440dd5611828112e81a745@sdgm.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:19:23 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi boyd, > double edged sword. If you don't bother giving your opinion as to why, your post is useless noise. Please either refrain from posting or spend that little more time making a useful post. Thanks, Ralph. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 21:05:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 21:05:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15842 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 21:05:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15838 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 21:05:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 21:05:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA3019BD8; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 031DE19BBB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 982B719BA2; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E28319B8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 21:03:59 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <96e1b83e39c12f6fde32722f47b18fa4@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: <27F1F6CE-F7F5-11D7-874A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:03:53 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 21:27:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 21:27:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16370 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 21:27:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16366 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 21:27:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 21:27:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AE3E19BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04A8B19BCD; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1A3D19BB9; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AD7219BBC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:25:55 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thanks. I'll get to it later in the week; I'll be out of town till then. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 21:50:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 21:50:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17160 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 21:50:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17156 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 21:50:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 21:50:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C48A919BA0; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B673E19BBC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78B7019A6A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 028EF19BB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8956812abe51c0fe7669680d4d907d9a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1ce82796010ca1336dfae191b74ebb33@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sam command language Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:52:43 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > (there are a couple of annoying little things i still haven't > > worked out a good way of doing though) > > if they're annoying, don't do them. they're annoying *because* i can't do them! for instance, suppose i've got a little sam expression that nicely isolates particular subregions of text. i can't work out a way to match only characters which appear at the very beginning (or end) of "dot". kind of similar to ^ and $ except with respect to the boundaries of the current selection. e.g. here's an expression that matches mbox entries in an acme Mail window (tab replaced by \t): ,x/.+\n(\t.+\n)*/y/^\(deleted\)-/g/./ it would be useful to be able to guard by message number on the resulting message lines (without worrying about the contents of the subject line). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 21:56:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 21:56:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17273 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 21:56:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17269 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 21:56:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 21:56:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5911019BED; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBD6B19BC4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:56:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47E7A19AA4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F9AD19BB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <2889.3f7d9e85.4e7aa@blake.inputplus.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-snhalllgojqduzvpbmzkgcreie" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:55:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-snhalllgojqduzvpbmzkgcreie Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't even realize that there were hardware enforced passwords on disks. I just looked up ata specs and found a whole slew of security cruft I never knew about. Thanks. --upas-snhalllgojqduzvpbmzkgcreie Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 6 05:17:41 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Oct 6 05:17:38 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C396919C00; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E81219BF3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:16:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D42B19B7A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF11C19BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6RFB-0000Vd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:01:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <2889.3f7d9e85.4e7aa@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:01:20 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi David, > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > email, we're screwed. What I don't understand is why the worms don't trigger some harm at some point in the future, like setting the hard drive password to a random string. Requiring the `master' password from the drive manufacturer or OEM would cause enourmous amounts of hassle. The worm would have meanwhile re-produced elsewhere so its not `shooting itself in the head'. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ --upas-snhalllgojqduzvpbmzkgcreie-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 22:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 22:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17732 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 22:17:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17728 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 22:17:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 22:17:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 95DE119BC4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1B0919B7A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:17:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A05119BBB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6197D19B7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h96DNTf26882; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:23:29 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] Update on cat v cp & /dev/screen Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:23:28 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have recreated the problem by allowing a drawterm connection to stay open for just over half a day (I can't say exactly because I didn't note the start time of last reboot yesterday). Also, it appears that if you do the command from drawterm before you do it from a local cli the local cli will then fail on subsequent commands. I am using a basic image from June 18 that was last pulled about 3 weeks ago. The system went through a complete rebuild at that time. I see several potential paths of cause: - hardware - bad os build somehow unique to this combination - an actual bug in P9 - something about the combo of drawterm and SuSE 8.0 Once I've completed the curent phase of work I'm in I will be able to reload the box in toto and re-test. It will be interesting to see if the middle mouse button will work in drawterm on a reload as well with respect to this SuSE 8.0 load. In addition the plan is to update this machine to SuSE 8.2 in the next week or so. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 6 22:59:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 6 22:59:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18858 invoked by uid 1020); 6 Oct 2003 22:59:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18854 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 22:59:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 22:59:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E14A319B1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6560719AEC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:59:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E8BB19A9E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDD4819ACB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8423dfb14616ec7c5f8fc790759260b3@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <27F1F6CE-F7F5-11D7-874A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:57:49 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? > > Kenji Arisawa no... the mouse cursor is drawn by hardware so it's separate from display->image... it isn't impossible to fake it, though -- just grab the cursor location from /dev/mouse and draw() a plan9 cursor mask (static for the most part) at this point andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 00:09:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 00:09:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20993 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 00:09:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20989 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 00:09:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 00:09:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9719519AC6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7CFF19ADB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:09:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C06F199A3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04C1119AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:08:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-122-68-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.122.68.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96F8Y3g024273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:08:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <8956812abe51c0fe7669680d4d907d9a@vitanuova.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:08:45 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > for instance, suppose i've got a little sam expression that nicely > isolates particular subregions of text. i can't work out a way to > match only characters which appear at the very beginning (or end) of > "dot". kind of similar to ^ and $ except with respect to the > boundaries of the current selection. long ago, i considered making ^ and $ mean this in sam. they clearly need to mean beginning and end of line at the top level, but when we x down, maybe they should mean beginning and end of the substring. i think i even tried to implement it. in any case, i decided against it; i think it was a combination of not liking the shift in meaning and the fact that ^ and $ meaning bol and eol at the top level meant that they required special handling already, since sam really doesn't know much about lines, unlike ed. if the whole file is just one long string, which is exactly how sam works, shouldn't ^ and $ then mean beginning of file and end of file? that's not very useful. and then, in the end, i felt the need for the modified version of ^ and $ so rarely that i don't really mind not having them. unlike in the modern world, back then adding a feature was considered something to consider carefully, rather than just adding it in case someone might conceivably want it one day. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 00:33:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 00:33:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21574 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 00:33:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21567 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 00:33:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 00:33:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DD5319AC3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4778419AEC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:33:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66BD919AD5; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8227E19ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30ac0b502acf4c13cf3a9f0cc6452841@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] /386/lib/libthread.a in friday's pull Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:32:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It seems that it required but didn't include "tos" that seems to be defined in 386.c. Just recompiling made the problem go away. hth From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 00:49:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 00:49:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21850 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 00:49:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21846 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 00:49:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 00:49:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71B1019ADD; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBC6519ADD; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67D8219ACE; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB03019ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h96Ft2w27716 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:55:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Rob Pike wrote: > long ago, i considered making ^ and $ mean this in sam. they clearly > need to mean beginning and end of line at the top level, but when we > x down, maybe they should mean beginning and end of the substring. > that ^ and $ meaning bol and eol at the top level meant that they > required > special handling already, since sam really doesn't know much about > lines, unlike ed. if the whole file is just one long string, which is > exactly > how sam works, shouldn't ^ and $ then mean beginning of file and end > of file? that's not very useful. Isn't a line just a substring of a file. The extension of ^ and $ from line to sub-string is natural. Confusing it with files isn't. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 01:34:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 01:34:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22799 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 01:34:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22795 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 01:34:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 01:34:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41CDB19ABB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC03B19AF4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63BB419ABB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8809919A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B9A03CEA9; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Message-ID: <20031006163511.GB16159@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> References: <8956812abe51c0fe7669680d4d907d9a@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:35:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > lines, unlike ed. if the whole file is just one long string, which is > exactly > how sam works, shouldn't ^ and $ then mean beginning of file and end > of file? that's not very useful. I would tend to expect that they meant beginning and end of selection. Then if you want to match at the beginnings and ends of lines, it's just ',x /^...$/', and beginning and end of file is ',/^...$/'. I suppose that has its disadvantages, too, like ',x /$/i/foo/' would put foo at the beginning of every line but the first, it's logical, but it's a little unexpected. Having to match '\n' when you wanted it, wouldn't be that bad, though. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 01:42:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 01:42:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22967 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 01:42:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22963 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 01:42:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 01:42:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1AB8619AEC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2227E19B08; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 173E719AEC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCEAB19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:41:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-120-92-159.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.120.92.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h96GfESP025903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:41:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031006163511.GB16159@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:41:26 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) consistency with ed's regexes was paramount when sam was written. it may be less so now. i was trying to build an editor that treated the whole file as one string yet didn't offer too many surprises when used by someone accustomed to ed. i think it worked out well. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 01:47:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 01:47:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23147 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 01:47:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23143 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 01:47:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 01:47:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3022C19B17; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7C8019B18; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F28C119ACE; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4689419AF4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.inhouse.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 48249CEAB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:47:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Message-ID: <20031006164744.GC16159@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> References: <20031006163511.GB16159@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:47:44 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > by someone accustomed to ed. i think it worked out well. I agree. Sam is a triumph. I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining. Thanks for a tool I use almost every day and thank God for often. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 03:00:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 03:00:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24817 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 03:00:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24813 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:00:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:00:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D5BAC19ADB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9911C19B0E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:00:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4474619AF4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 725AD19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7AF4166B4F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update Message-ID: <20031006175930.GK834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <2889.3f7d9e85.4e7aa@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:59:30 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I discovered it when I implemented 48-bit LBA. I didn't bother with it at the time, but adding support to the driver might be useful for some. Also, as soon as I can get my hands on a SATA card, I'll add support to the ATA driver, unless someone beats me to it. On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 08:55:34AM -0400, David Presotto wrote: > I didn't even realize that there were hardware enforced passwords on > disks. I just looked up ata specs and found a whole slew of security > cruft I never knew about. Thanks. > From: Ralph Corderoy > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:01:20 GMT > Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update > > Hi David, > > > The worm/virus problem is not really addressed. If they take over > > your machine and you have a legitimate way to send authenticated > > email, we're screwed. > > What I don't understand is why the worms don't trigger some harm at some > point in the future, like setting the hard drive password to a random > string. Requiring the `master' password from the drive manufacturer or > OEM would cause enourmous amounts of hassle. The worm would have > meanwhile re-produced elsewhere so its not `shooting itself in the > head'. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 03:03:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 03:03:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24918 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 03:03:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24914 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:03:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:03:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98CA719AA4; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53E9519B0E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:03:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1321D19B0E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C50C19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 02-026.015.popsite.net ([66.248.18.26] helo=acm.org) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6ZgR-0007HJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3F81AE26.3040609@acm.org> From: "D. Brownlee" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The small world approach of H18 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:02:14 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) at your doctor's office? ;-) boyd@sdgm.net wrote: >where is my DSM IV? > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 03:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 03:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24990 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 03:10:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24986 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:10:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:10:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE31A19B28; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42F0019AF1; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0268D19AFA; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22BBF19B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <868c9473d85d2f5f50aea32c5bc11600@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ISP filtering - update In-Reply-To: <124e.3f813d05.b3ff5@blake.inputplus.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:09:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > double edged sword. If you don't bother giving your opinion as to why, your post is useless noise. Please either refrain from posting or spend that little more time making a useful post. like i said above: doomed if you post to little, doomed if you post too much. perhaps i should get you to edit my posts for me? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 03:25:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 03:25:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25249 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 03:25:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25245 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:25:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:25:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB09019B41; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1454119B40; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06E3C19B2B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A515819B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5bccbcda156d42f4ad5ee5aa38aef5bd@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:24:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think it worked out well. so do i. i've used it for some 12 years now and it only ever screws up when i do (but i have undo) or /tmp fills up. once you master 'x' it's a seriously powerful tool, without all that crap you find in things like emacs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 03:43:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 03:43:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25726 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 03:43:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25722 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:43:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:43:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 28757199BB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FB7A19B27; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B7FA19B3B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B14EA19B3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16693 invoked by uid 10003); 6 Oct 2003 15:11:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20031006151100.16692.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] All-Star Weekend 2004 | February 12-16 | Los Angeles | Hotel Accomodations Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 6 Oct 2003 15:11:00 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Need Hotel Accomodations for All-Star Weekend 2004 February 12-16, Los Angeles California? 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I will try. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 08:30:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 08:30:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32699 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 08:30:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32695 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 08:30:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 08:30:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 652FB199D7; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B128819AEB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21CC019AEB; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 719CB199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4287 invoked by uid 10003); 6 Oct 2003 19:58:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20031006195809.4286.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 6 Oct 2003 19:58:09 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.7 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. You MUST click on the link below to have your address removed from our list. This is to ensure that someone doesn't remove your address from our list without your knowledge or consent. Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=743686 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 09:32:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 09:32:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2963 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 09:31:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2944 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 09:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 09:31:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE5AE19A97; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C9D119B15; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:31:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4093199BC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA2219A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8aa8ef0eb4d9bcfa76aa6691f4ae9119@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 'wall' messages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:30:14 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i have a few users logged in to a machine i'd really love to reboot (say, because i'm adding an option to cpurc). in a unix world i'd use "wall" to tell them "reboot forthcoming in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1..." but in plan 9 i can't do anything short of forcing them to listen to some "announcement" file descriptor from /src... how could i do something similar in Plan 9 with minimal effort? i know at some point it was customary to warn users by shouting across the unix room, but some of the users here are rather far away... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 09:37:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 09:37:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3093 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 09:35:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3066 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 09:34:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 09:34:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7548C199BC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C87419B15; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4E5219B0A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26490199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7cf04f845f60745c1b406890a3fd0a9e@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <8aa8ef0eb4d9bcfa76aa6691f4ae9119@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:33:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) reboot it. say nothing. i think sam etc will survive it. no vi -r :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 09:38:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 09:38:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3228 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 09:38:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3136 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 09:36:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14F4719A97; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CCB619B18; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B284319B08; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28C0819B15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7ff3f01c9994da4c533c749c14e09ea3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <8aa8ef0eb4d9bcfa76aa6691f4ae9119@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:35:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Send them mail from the console saying 'reboot at 21:00'. Put it in a file in /lib/news too so anyone just logging in or logging in afterwards knows what happened. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 09:54:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 09:54:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4267 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 09:54:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4256 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 09:54:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 09:54:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 173EF19B05; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A37519B28; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:54:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C19619ADF; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1395C19AAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Newbie: life without rio From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20031006110657.GA24183@lb.tenfour> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:53:42 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The installer now inits the graphics card , but only wants to > use the first dozen rows of the display (jokes about ed being > vi through a letterboux jump up and bite me on the ass once more). i830 device was used by dhog only for his LCD in notebook. If you were using LCD, it may be my fault to make it unwork. Please let me know personally the details of your situation, dump list of vga driver etc. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:22:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:22:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9470 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:22:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9466 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:22:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:22:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAB6B19B33; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E12119B19; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:22:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B3EC19AED; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 172F819AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h972SOP31850 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:28:24 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <7ff3f01c9994da4c533c749c14e09ea3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:28:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Send them mail from the console saying 'reboot at 21:00'. > Put it in a file in /lib/news too so anyone just logging > in or logging in afterwards knows what happened. Pity you can't do something like: echo "WARNING: REBOOT AT 21:00" > /dev/display/* >> /lib/news or something similar. Shouldn't each users display be accessible into bootes' namespace for just this sort of stuff. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:25:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:25:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9629 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:25:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9625 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:25:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:25:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44CF119AF6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BE2C19B1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09E0F19AFA; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB9CB19AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h972Uhd31886; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:30:43 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: <7ff3f01c9994da4c533c749c14e09ea3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] A final question on regex Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:30:43 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I guess the only point I don't grasp at this point is why it's an either/or situation. Why not simply provide both in the engine. A simple switch for th non-standard aspects would give people the best of both worlds. Using pipes you could even mix the two modes. Standards are fine, but they are meant as a means and not an ends. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:28:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:28:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9804 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:28:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9800 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:28:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:28:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF63619A7F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8329919B19; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:28:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B71619AFA; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E469419A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0ab0110ee18fd781fea20472b6e7b5ed@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:27:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Pity you can't do something like: echo "WARNING: REBOOT AT 21:00" > /dev/display/* >> /lib/news or something similar. Shouldn't each users display be accessible into bootes' namespace for just this sort of stuff. one word: namespace 2nd work: permissions plumb/seemail could be a solution though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:38:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:38:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10400 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:38:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10396 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:38:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:38:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45F5619B18; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5D7E19AEC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B80519B13; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA61619A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6573 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 02:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 02:37:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 02:37:46 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h972bjL07328; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:37:45 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:37:41 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > plumb/seemail could be a solution though. plumbing might have to face the namespace boundary too. how about making news(1) to continue running and pops up when news arrives in /lib/news? -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:39:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:39:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10423 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:39:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10418 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:39:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:39:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0005119B1F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 070A119B3D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6033719A7F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D7E419A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id A59DD3938; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F4EE3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup-67.31.80.167.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.80.167]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2280.67.31.80.167.1065493871.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> From: "Joel Salomon" To: "plan 9 fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] port of libdraw Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is the bit of libdraw in drawterm usable as a libdraw port - or as the start of one? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:40:25 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:40:25 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10452 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:40:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10432 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:39:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:39:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 819CB19B46; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46DE619B52; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:39:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EA5519B1A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5F88B19B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12111 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 00:46:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007004650.12110.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 00:46:50 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?a=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:43:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:43:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10676 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:43:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10626 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:43:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:43:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B970019B0A; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1D2F19B2B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6682E19B18; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 464E319AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:41:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) nope From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:48:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:48:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11052 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:48:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11039 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:48:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:48:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B967619B40; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC63619B40; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 157E419B33; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4867199D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h972sLr31991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:54:21 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <0ab0110ee18fd781fea20472b6e7b5ed@sdgm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:54:21 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > Pity you can't do something like: > > echo "WARNING: REBOOT AT 21:00" > /dev/display/* >> /lib/news > > or something similar. Shouldn't each users display be accessible into > bootes' namespace for just this sort of stuff. > > one word: namespace bootes should be able to alias into any users namespace on that box. That means he should be able to export resources as well. > 2nd work: permissions bootes should be able to alias into any users namespace on that box. That means he should be able to export resources as well. > plumb/seemail could be a solution though. Yep, let's add another layer of complexity. Another set of tools and syntax. Make it simple. It should also work for sound so that somebody could, play foo.mp3 > /dev/sound/* And everyone who has their soundcard exported would get it. You could do the same sort of thing with SMPT time codes, MIDI, USB, Firewire, I2C, etc. After all it is -just- a namespace. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 11:49:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 11:49:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11140 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 11:49:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11136 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:49:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:49:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A656199D7; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A7F319B58; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0A5919B58; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDAB919B38 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5e9fcfeec887add4f9b812bf832a28bb@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] You've Been Removed! In-Reply-To: <20031007004650.12110.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:48:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) travel@heatwavefunfest.com i zapped it from windows, with some help from traceoute. interesting trace 'cos it zinged around one 'net' for a 'long' time and then it got back to C&W. well maybe i didn't, but my next plan was to take it down with spamoff. i am less than fond of spam ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:08:24 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:08:24 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12061 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:07:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12039 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:07:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:07:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67BE319B41; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 247DF19B4D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D69C19B05; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C058D19B1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20864 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 03:06:06 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 03:06:06 -0000 Message-ID: <027d01c38c80$456eaed0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <7ff3f01c9994da4c533c749c14e09ea3@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:08:19 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this solution works very well in practice, particularly if everyone runs seemail - the ominous bootes face herding everyone to the coffee machine. giving bootes some god-awful power to hijack other namespaces is not a very good solution. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages > Send them mail from the console saying 'reboot at 21:00'. > Put it in a file in /lib/news too so anyone just logging > in or logging in afterwards knows what happened. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:12:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:12:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12246 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12242 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:12:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:12:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F67F19B4D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3090F19B52; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:12:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8346219B33; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E189F19B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2c0af1ee1e13963c40f7b3642c64e94a@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <027d01c38c80$456eaed0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:11:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yeah, like i just said in the #plan9 irc chat. when you see the 'reboot of death' face you close up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:26:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:26:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13094 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:26:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13090 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:26:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:26:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E48019B47; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CD7519B1F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35CA319B1F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02BDF19AD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h973VjP32139 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:45 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <027d01c38c80$456eaed0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Bruce Ellis wrote: > this solution works very well in practice, particularly if everyone > runs seemail - the ominous bootes face herding everyone to > the coffee machine. > > giving bootes some god-awful power to hijack other namespaces > is not a very good solution. Wait a minute, the users don't own those resources, they're borrowing them. Within the context of the particular hardware it is completely reasonable to leave bootes in control. Nobody is suggesting that bootes necessarily be able to go out off that hardware and act as that user. You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something that isn't theirs. Yuck! -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:41:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:41:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13706 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:40:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13685 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:40:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:40:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9BBFE19B5D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8150319A9B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAA3919A81; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40600199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <822951d1220e7698027d20d05999510c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] port of libdraw In-Reply-To: <2280.67.31.80.167.1065493871.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:39:39 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is the bit of libdraw in drawterm usable as a libdraw port no. > - or as the start of one? yes. in fact, i built a usable libdraw from it last week. rob and i have samterm from /sys/src/cmd/samterm compiling and running on mac os x, freebsd, and linux. i will post it in a day or two. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:41:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:41:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13726 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:41:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13694 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:40:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:40:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B50BA19B3D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5269219B4F; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:40:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 95F0D199B6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC904199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8155236c953ef3881a682002f2b314a2@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] pitching 9fans Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:39:44 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If you're pitching Plan 9 in any environment, here's a good quote that most of 9fans already know, and others instinctively feel: So what should we look out for in IT fashion? The biggest fashion killer is the ratio of complexity to functionality, or simply Value-Add. The problem with EJB was that you had to put so much effort in to get so little out. It brought back the 'knives and daggers' that Java promised to remove. The latest EJB spec has promised to hide the complexity, but in reality it's too late; IT vendors don’t often get a second bite at the apple (Apple, ironically, being the exception). Plan 9 beats _almost_ everything (exception being possibly inferno ;) when it comes to the Functionality/Complexity ratio... Whole article (somewhat curmudgeonly): http://www.softwarereality.com/soapbox/softwarefashion.jsp Ten years too late: Andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:44:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:44:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13894 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:44:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13869 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:44:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:44:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06C5619A10; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E31019A9E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 912D819A69; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DBD8E199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28497 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 03:53:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007035324.28492.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Added! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 03:53:24 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:48:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:48:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14073 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:48:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14069 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:48:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:48:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 106D6199B6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D13519B3C; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EC13199F6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 482B2199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h973scH32302 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:54:38 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <822951d1220e7698027d20d05999510c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] What's up with the wiki? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:54:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Went over to look at the installation instructions and none of the links work. Just dead text....:( -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:49:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:49:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14145 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:49:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14140 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:49:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:49:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A556199E6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3CBB19B3C; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94EE519B64; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E26BB199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24553 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h973mXj26726 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310070348.h973mXj26726@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:08:19 +1000." <027d01c38c80$456eaed0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:48:33 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Bruce Ellis" writes: > giving bootes some god-awful power to hijack other namespaces > is not a very good solution. Yes. That's just a reinvention of root; not a good idea. We've spent many long years getting away from that. Going back would be, well, a step backwards. If someone wants Linux, they know where to find it. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:53:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:53:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14386 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14382 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:53:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C544619B61; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45CC819B3B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87A8919B61; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB63119A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <200310070348.h973mXj26726@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:51:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If someone wants Linux, they know where to find it. texas? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:53:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:53:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14399 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14395 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:53:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DF6419B81; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F1E219B64; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A69E199E6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 87F6119A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23972 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 04:58:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007045827.23970.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 04:58:27 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. 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Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=114675 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:53:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:53:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14424 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14420 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:53:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:53:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43D6619A69; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19AE119B7E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:53:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA7C619A5E; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F001619AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24392 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 04:58:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007045852.24391.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 04:58:52 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. 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Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=205270 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:57:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:57:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14621 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:57:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14617 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:57:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:57:13 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B028819B5D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0413F19B3D; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:56:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4A419B3B; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBF76199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h973tI9j025939 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:55:18 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h973tITF025935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:55:18 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] What's up with the wiki? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:55:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > Went over to look at the installation instructions and none of the links > work. Just dead text....:( > if you had looked at the history you'ld have noticed that some serbian d00d had "haxx0red" it, and somebody from utexas.edu had restored it as text only, no links... (ok, maybe not serbian, from the former yugoslav republic...) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 12:57:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 12:57:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14637 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 12:57:25 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14633 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 12:57:25 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 12:57:25 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEBD319A10; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 982FA19AED; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:56:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD03F199E6; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2742619A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25174 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:02:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007050257.25173.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:02:57 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?a=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:01:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:01:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14866 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:01:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14862 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:01:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:01:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AD0A19AED; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E792C19B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A753019B3B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8632A199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h97478K32521 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:07:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20031007045852.24391.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] bootes aliasing as other users... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:07:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If the general point is not to allow bootes access to other users resources then of what use is this stanza: hostid=bootes uid=!sys uid=!adm uid=* Doesn't this allow bootes to hijack users, except sys and adm? -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:04:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:04:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15082 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15078 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:04:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00D8E19B61; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 690F119B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:04:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04B3319B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C958B199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h9749gY32611 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:09:42 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <200310070348.h973mXj26726@augusta.math.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:09:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Dan Cross wrote: > Yes. That's just a reinvention of root; not a good idea. We've spent No it's not. It simply lets bootes have access to -his- local resources so that he could do things like dump a message to all logged in users. When the original pointers are setup to the resources, a link is made into bootes namespace. It could even be one way, bootes to the device, it wouldn't necessary for bootes to read the device. The same for sound and other such. So, no, it's not the same at all. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:05:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:05:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15118 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15111 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:05:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:05:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A7ED19B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 952F719B76; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4168119AED; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4971719B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9744Z9j026012 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:04:35 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h9744ZLE026008 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:04:35 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:04:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something > that isn't theirs. Yuck! how very, very wrong. if you want to be a dictator on your network you surely won't get many users (how many does H18 have, exactly?). in the real world, users are exactly the ones who pay for the hardware you want to 'play god' on; sysadmins are only there to protect them from each other. recommended reading: scary.devil.monastery archives From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:06:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:06:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15243 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:06:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15239 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:06:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:06:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FEBF19B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E34C319B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4196C19B84; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECDCE19B75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h974C2c32630 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:12:02 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] What's up with the wiki? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:12:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > > Went over to look at the installation instructions and none of the links > > work. Just dead text....:( > > > > if you had looked at the history you'ld have noticed that some serbian d00d > had "haxx0red" it, and somebody from utexas.edu had restored it as text > only, no links... > > (ok, maybe not serbian, from the former yugoslav republic...) No kidding? Duh. The point is that somebody really should roll the edits back to something before those 'fixes'. That should probably be somebody on the server side to ensure that there isn't something else going on. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:06:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:06:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15256 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:06:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15251 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:06:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:06:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1676519A9B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 237F419B1E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:06:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1097F19B84; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2344E19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25985 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:12:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007051232.25984.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Added! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:12:32 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:11:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:11:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15534 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:11:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15530 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:11:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:11:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 705B119B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54EB119995; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA46A19B1E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A15EC19995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h974HaJ32689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:17:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:17:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > > You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something > > that isn't theirs. Yuck! > > how very, very wrong. if you want to be a dictator on your network you > surely won't get many users (how many does H18 have, exactly?). I'm not being a dictator at all. I'm simply ensuring that bootes who is responsible for the integrity of the system (which if compromised effects -all- users) can reach all users easily and in a -elegant- way (as in simple, easy to follow). Having to invoke several other programs and jump through hoops that can be accomplished by a simple extension is the wrong approach. Complicating the users environment is -never- a -good- thing, It's not supposed to be a IQ test, it's supposed to do the work for you. > in the real world, users are exactly the ones who pay for the hardware > you want to 'play god' on; sysadmins are only there to protect them from > each other. And the sys admin. Bottom line, it should be simple and consistent. A wo access to local resources for users is not unreasonable. I challenge you to specifically detail why this is being a dictator. Extreme claims require extreme evidence. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:15:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:15:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15744 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:15:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15736 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:15:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:15:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4349919B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D6A419B63; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:15:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10CED19B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5B0CC19AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26592 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:21:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007052124.26591.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:21:24 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. You MUST click on the link below to have your address removed from our list. This is to ensure that someone doesn't remove your address from our list without your knowledge or consent. Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=823742 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:16:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:16:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15774 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:16:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15770 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:16:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:16:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D65E319B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A458519B63; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6148919B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E897A19B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84f5a8bf637e94e1e8c94e61c056a6f5@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:15:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it has nothing to do with the namespace. bootes is a 'bit' special. but, it can't write on, say, /usr/boyd/foo if it's 644, a) try and hack into sdgm.net b) tyy and create /usr/boyd/foo as bootes ps. prizes from /dev/null btw: if you hack into sdgm.net (which i doubt you can do) you'd be up on a 'data crime' charge. do you like gaol? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:17:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:17:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15830 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:17:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15825 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:17:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:17:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA73519B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BCF219B7E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:17:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBCDE19B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3119E19B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h974NHD32719; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:23:18 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] A fine point on 'lazy update' Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:23:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It needs to have two modes: - The lazy update goes through the system that exports the mount - The lazy update goes from the client of the site, to the source of the intermediate sites export. This takes the intermediate site out of the transfer protocol. The first should be default, the second for those sites that want to act as diretories but don't have the resources (or need/want) to handle the raw data streams. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:23:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:23:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16107 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:23:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16103 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:23:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:23:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9E0219A27; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F89919B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:23:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D38F199B3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93D0B19B5D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3bdd4fb278d8aabc8579c6ae26a5faee@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] locking files Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:22:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i assume they have a queue of procs trying to get lock. i'm seeing some strange stuff with +al files. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:27:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:27:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16272 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:26:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16245 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:26:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:26:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A0EC19B8B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D53D319B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C44619B40; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DA2F419A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27523 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:32:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007053238.27522.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:32:38 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?a=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:27:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:27:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16296 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:27:14 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16261 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:26:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:26:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D9B619B7E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F41CA19B7F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:26:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE26319B40; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF70519B33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h974PD9j026186 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:25:13 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h974PDit026182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:25:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:25:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > I challenge you to specifically detail why this is being a dictator. > plus: > bootes should be able to alias into any users namespace on that box. one word: "1984" ok, real life example -- North Korea, ca 1988, the hotel in Pyongyang where all foreigners from the 'friendly' countries stay has all pictures on the walls in every room _obviously_ bugged with miniature cameras. but that's OT, now back to our previously scheduled program :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:34:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:34:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16608 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:33:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16584 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:33:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:33:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 338DE19A27; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C55D19B75; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2FA819A69; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 269F619B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <332a3aaafb1547debffdb5bf5918cbb6@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] oh cool Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:32:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) spamoff: trashed mail from 9fans@cse.psu.edu From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:37:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:37:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16851 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:37:29 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16726 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:36:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:36:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A542319B77; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0AD519B61; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:36:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1591719A27; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5EC9D19B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28315 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:42:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007054224.28314.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Added! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:42:24 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:38:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:38:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16936 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:38:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16932 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:38:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:38:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 058E719B77; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DED2319B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:38:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5296D19B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5226C19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id F2BA63938; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id B64F93937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup-67.31.80.167.dial1.newyork1.level3.net ([67.31.80.167]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3653.67.31.80.167.1065500992.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] port of libdraw From: "Joel Salomon" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <822951d1220e7698027d20d05999510c@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <2280.67.31.80.167.1065493871.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> <822951d1220e7698027d20d05999510c@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:29:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Is the bit of libdraw in drawterm usable as the start of a libdraw port? > > yes. in fact, i built a usable libdraw from it last week. > rob and i have samterm from /sys/src/cmd/samterm compiling > and running on mac os x, freebsd, and linux. > How much work is it? I wanted to start on a windows port and I'd like some encouraging news like "it's real easy". I'm a wimp, I know ;-) I've got a programming assignment that needs to run under windoze and anything to make the graphics portion easier is worth it. > i will post it in a day or two. > Cool! Thanks. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:45:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:45:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17217 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:45:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17206 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:44:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:44:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4046919B3B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3559419B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9454D19B76; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D80E319B3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29132 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:51:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007055103.29131.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:51:03 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. You MUST click on the link below to have your address removed from our list. This is to ensure that someone doesn't remove your address from our list without your knowledge or consent. Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=170088 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 13:51:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 13:51:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17780 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 13:51:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17776 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 13:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 13:51:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB12219B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B82119B88; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C32F119B76; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2728219B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29813 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 05:57:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007055747.29812.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 05:57:47 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?a=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 14:02:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 14:02:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18347 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 14:01:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18338 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:01:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:01:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAD8119A27; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CCCD19B46; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDA3719B08; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E401919A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30802 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 06:07:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007060724.30801.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Added! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:07:24 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 14:11:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 14:11:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18892 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 14:11:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18887 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:11:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:11:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8CE119B90; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B731219B46; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8168819AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C97D419A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31523 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 06:17:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007061723.31522.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:17:23 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. 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Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=738538 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 14:21:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 14:21:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19520 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 14:21:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19514 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:21:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:21:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B281019B1E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1B4819B4B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FE8819A10; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 90DD319ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32085 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 06:27:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007062725.32084.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:27:25 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! 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Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:37:26 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu to the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 14:41:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 14:41:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20579 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 14:41:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20574 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C0D319B4C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1287719ADF; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B06E19B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 18D7519ADF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1061 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 06:47:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007064745.1060.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] Your Confirmation Required Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:47:45 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to verify that you wish to have your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu removed from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. You MUST click on the link below to have your address removed from our list. This is to ensure that someone doesn't remove your address from our list without your knowledge or consent. Thank you, http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?r=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu&p=260587 America Online users, please click: Here NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 14:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 14:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20980 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 14:49:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20976 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 14:49:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 14:49:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45DDD19A1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3C0019B47; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4978E19A1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server1.internetbox.com (server1.internetbox.com [66.139.79.109]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 98E5419A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1667 invoked by uid 10003); 7 Oct 2003 06:55:48 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007065548.1666.qmail@server1.internetbox.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: travel@heatwavefunfest.com Subject: [9fans] You've Been Removed! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 7 Oct 2003 06:55:48 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: 9fans@cse.psu.edu from the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the NetLinkz Market Force mailing list at our website: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/ to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.netlinkzgroup.com/cgi-bin/s.pl?a=1&l=25&e=9fans=:cse.psu.edu Thank you, NetLinkz Market Force From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 16:24:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 16:24:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25607 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 16:24:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25600 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 16:24:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 16:24:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88E3D19B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BADB619B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:24:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDD0419B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A239819B58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:22:50 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:22:36 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F8269BC.000001.28961@tajfun.atc.cz> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] Re:Q about screenshots Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:22:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >And just exactly what happens if the cp occurs while >the screen is in t= he >middle of an update. >Does it grab the old frame, wait for the new frame to >complete, or just >give you a gibberish dump of the interim buffer >contents which are almo= st >certainly worthless? I don't know it exactly, nevertheless I think the display is locked when redraw is in process. So, cp /dev/screen blbla should wait. Sasa. _________________________________________________________________________= _______ ZNA=C8KOV=C9 PO=C8=CDTA=C8E DEXX - v=EDt=ECz testu hern=EDch PC v Computeru 11/2003 - dr=BEitel Chip TIP a TIP Po=E8=EDta=E8 pro ka=BEd=E9ho - cenov=FD trh=E1k -> kompletn=ED PC s 19" monitorem za 19.990 s DPH! - http://www.email.cz/dexx From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 17:59:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 17:59:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30246 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 17:59:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30242 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 17:59:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 17:59:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D74D19B47; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22C0F19B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD73719B47; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B499319B4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c5e49035d04f0c0297234eb957186ba@yourdomain.dom> From: steve.simon@nospam.snellwilcox.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:58:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i think it worked out well. One day I must make a serious effort to learn acme but I feel no pressure to as sam is so wonderfull. The only thing that bugs me is that sed isn't ssam, I know about sam -d but it doesn't stream. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 18:40:29 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 18:40:29 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31723 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 18:40:28 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31719 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 18:40:28 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 18:40:28 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6F7919B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16DCD19B5B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF2BE199E3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2E98199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h979cpaK017345 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:38:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h979cnFx011266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:38:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h979cme16137 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:38:48 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200310070938.h979cme16137@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:58:44 +0100." <6c5e49035d04f0c0297234eb957186ba@yourdomain.dom> References: <6c5e49035d04f0c0297234eb957186ba@yourdomain.dom> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:38:48 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The only thing that bugs me is that sed isn't ssam, > I know about sam -d but it doesn't stream. There is a unix ssam (streaming sam) http://www.westley.demon.co.uk/software.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 18:51:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 18:51:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32240 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 18:51:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32235 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 18:51:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 18:51:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D9C919B2C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A859519B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:51:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A5CD19B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 44ABB19AED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28971 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 09:50:07 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 09:50:07 -0000 Message-ID: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:50:08 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) absolute horseshit. i guess you don't understand that the namepace of the user is in their terminal p9, not on the cpu server. as for your claims about user priv, well you don't understand auth either. oh and i found this on another mailing list. "The relentless mass spamming by professor rat and Jim Choate keeps new comers away, since 99% of the posts to the list is from people who hate the ideas that the list was created to further, and seek to shut it down, to prevent thought about and discussion of such ideas..." Now I know what you do when you don't sprout garbage here. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Choate" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages > Wait a minute, the users don't own those resources, they're borrowing > them. Within the context of the particular hardware it is completely > reasonable to leave bootes in control. Nobody is suggesting that bootes > necessarily be able to go out off that hardware and act as that user. > > You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something > that isn't theirs. Yuck! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 19:48:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 19:48:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2164 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 19:48:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2160 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 19:48:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 19:48:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5C3819B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98EEB19B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:48:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 763A919B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35BF7199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h97AfVef005437 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:41:41 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h97AfFAf005435 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:41:15 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Message-ID: <20031007124103.J4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e>; from Bruce Ellis on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:50:08PM +1000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:41:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:50:08PM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > > absolute horseshit. i guess you don't understand that the namepace > of the user is in their terminal p9, not on the cpu server. as for your > claims about user priv, well you don't understand auth either. > On the other hand, a reply that explains that the namespace is sacred and inviolate, otherwise users cannot trust the operating system, that security in Plan 9 hinges on the absence of superior privilege (root user) which prevents malicious users from being able to hijack the CPU server, that "eve" and not "bootes" is allowed to provide a trampoline for a user to access a file server, all these things make better archive material than tirades about lack of understanding. Just my opinion, of course. Also, in passing, Jim Choate is not very active on the Lego Robotics mailing list, but I've found most of his comments there (I ought to shut up, oughtn't I? Maybe I'll unsubscribe from there, now) to be a lot less inflammatory than here. Mostly useful, only occasionally unhelpful. Never really insulting. For what it's worth... ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 20:02:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 20:02:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2831 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 20:02:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2827 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 20:02:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 20:02:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E73219B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D61C819B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:02:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A065E19B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nanionic.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc106.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B75E619B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f4201a9cd37344d433ad0b5595fe908@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <29BD818B-F84D-11D7-86CE-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:01:27 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> >>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? >>> >>> Kenji Arisawa Yup. with vmware :-). Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 20:26:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 20:26:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3604 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 20:26:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3600 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 20:26:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 20:26:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C055819B82; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9473B19B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79BEF19ADF; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9D79B19A81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32284 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 11:25:39 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 11:25:39 -0000 Message-ID: <018501c38cc6$0edb4450$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <20031007124103.J4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:27:54 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) perhaps a longer sentence may have been more instructive to me. when i see stuff like this: > echo "WARNING: REBOOT AT 21:00" > /dev/display/* >> /lib/news and > You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something > that isn't theirs. Yuck! i think that someone should be reading the manuals and ... i give up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucio De Re" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages > On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:50:08PM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > > > > absolute horseshit. i guess you don't understand that the namepace > > of the user is in their terminal p9, not on the cpu server. as for your > > claims about user priv, well you don't understand auth either. > > > On the other hand, a reply that explains that the namespace is > sacred and inviolate, otherwise users cannot trust the operating > system, that security in Plan 9 hinges on the absence of superior > privilege (root user) which prevents malicious users from being > able to hijack the CPU server, that "eve" and not "bootes" is > allowed to provide a trampoline for a user to access a file server, > all these things make better archive material than tirades about > lack of understanding. > > Just my opinion, of course. > > Also, in passing, Jim Choate is not very active on the Lego Robotics > mailing list, but I've found most of his comments there (I ought > to shut up, oughtn't I? Maybe I'll unsubscribe from there, now) to > be a lot less inflammatory than here. Mostly useful, only occasionally > unhelpful. Never really insulting. For what it's worth... > > ++L > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 20:44:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 20:44:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3983 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 20:44:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3979 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 20:44:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 20:44:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BBAF199DB; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B37CE19B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60E6819B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09A36199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp ([61.211.130.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 20:42:55 JST 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <8f4201a9cd37344d433ad0b5595fe908@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: <5FCD048A-F8BB-11D7-AD0A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:42:48 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>> >>>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? >>>> >>>> Kenji Arisawa > > Yup. with vmware :-). > Gorka Yes, such an environment is really useful in writing manual. We can get snapshots of installation process that are impossible on native OS. I am using Virtual PC for this purpose. I really want Plan 9 can work with network on Virtual PC. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 20:58:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 20:58:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4259 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 20:58:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4254 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 20:58:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 20:58:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6594619A69; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E74119B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:58:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BEF5319A69; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B6C619B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h97BqYef005571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:52:36 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h97BqXGx005570 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:52:33 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Message-ID: <20031007135230.K4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e> <20031007124103.J4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <018501c38cc6$0edb4450$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <018501c38cc6$0edb4450$c901a8c0@cc77109e>; from Bruce Ellis on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 09:27:54PM +1000 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:52:31 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 09:27:54PM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > > when i see stuff like this: > > > echo "WARNING: REBOOT AT 21:00" > /dev/display/* >> /lib/news > > and > > > You're position basically lets the user have free reign over something > > that isn't theirs. Yuck! > > i think that someone should be reading the manuals and ... i give up. ... which contributes to the impression that we're a bunch of inbred fanatics on this list My mentor (one of them, but the first I thought of as such) had a neat little phrase: "Think of them as competition". Here, a more appropriate one may be "Think of them as the majority". Someone here ought to get across to them, instruct them. Not necessarily you or I, but by being critical we may be making it difficult for those who would otherwise be willing to try. And even though I believe that "there is no such thing as good example" I have no difficulty recognising a bad example when I see it. And those are much, much easier to follow. What I'm hoping is that we'll all learn from the recent inane debacles to make the tone on this mailing list more instructive or, at least, less destructive. There's an amazing amount of learning I find in the topical postings here and I'm not afraid to admit that almost all the regulars have contributed in some manner to this learning, let's encourage that type of message. But Bruce, please don't take it personally, the only reason I chose your posting was because it was the most recent example. I'm sure I could have found one of my own, had I looked for it. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 21:11:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 21:11:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4883 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 21:11:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4879 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 21:11:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 21:11:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 32DEB19B71; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE84219B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FD2119B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2E8A19B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4b5896c2fd67bab2c8149940087d8d0f@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <20031007135230.K4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:10:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) my bets are on brucee From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 21:12:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 21:12:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4894 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 21:12:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4890 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 21:12:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 21:12:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 543CC19B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 882C219B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:12:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E461219B61; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B59DE19B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7eb4361c017cfb41f9cdd359a0388cf3@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <20031007135230.K4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:15:51 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Someone here ought to get across to them, instruct them. Not >necessarily you or I, but by being critical we may be making it >difficult for those who would otherwise be willing to try. "willing to try" implies that they won't insult you when you answer their simple questions m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 21:39:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 21:39:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5648 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5644 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14BFE19B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9EB319B88; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 230AC19B65; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75A6319B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h97CXXef005686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:35 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h97CXURt005685 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:30 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Message-ID: <20031007143327.M4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20031007135230.K4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <7eb4361c017cfb41f9cdd359a0388cf3@juice.thebigchoice.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <7eb4361c017cfb41f9cdd359a0388cf3@juice.thebigchoice.com>; from matt@proweb.co.uk on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 02:15:51PM +0100 Organization: Proxima Research & Development Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 02:15:51PM +0100, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > "willing to try" implies that they won't insult you when you answer their simple questions > I rather mangled what I wanted to say. I meant that our being critical would discourage those who would, in our stead, be prepared to teach, would be less likely to get emotional or personal. Specially with recalcitrant learners. ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 22:34:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 22:34:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6764 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 22:34:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6760 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 22:34:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 22:34:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F36E19B7B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3A6719B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10FF119991; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B561B19B65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h97Deac02878; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:40:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <20031007124103.J4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:40:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Lucio De Re wrote: > On the other hand, a reply that explains that the namespace is > sacred and inviolate, otherwise users cannot trust the operating > system, Users can't trust the OS, they can only trust the group running it, or not. A fundamental and basic security flaw that has let more than one hacker into a system. And will continue to do so until people get burned enough to realize that 'trust' -only- applies to people, never things. And even then it's mercurial (eg anybody ever had a girlfriend cheat on them?). This is one advantage, security through obscurity, where closed source OS'es -are- more secure than Open Source. And yes, it is a thin edge, but a edge never the less. The owners of the vast majority of boxes can't de-compile the binaries and then modify them for what is effectively a MITM attack. Open Source OS'es don't have this, in fact it's a common suggestion that people should in fact work on their own boxes (and many do). > that security in Plan 9 hinges on the absence of superior > privilege (root user) which prevents malicious users from being > able to hijack the CPU server, that "eve" and not "bootes" is And bootes is absolutely prevented from aliasing as eve, ever? Even if they're running on the same box at the same time? I think somebody is more interested in cannon than reality. Does bootes -ever- have a process that is running the cpu in supervisor mode? A single NOP that can be replaced with a jump or branch? If bootes (or eve for that matter) ever run the cpu in supervisor mode then they can take control of the VMM on that machine and snapshot everything a user does or has. So, unless you've got some sort of secure vault to run in (eg WOM on DSS smart cards) your security with respect to the hardware and basic OS are really a mirage. > allowed to provide a trampoline for a user to access a file server, > all these things make better archive material than tirades about > lack of understanding. And that's not written down clearly anywhere. One of the perennial complaints I hear is that the documentation of Plan 9 sucks. And yes, Hangar 18 is doing something about that. I've read -every- damn P9 document that's out there on the site, they suck. They're out of date, they're written in the wrong tone, etc., etc., etc. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 22:41:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 22:41:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6965 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 22:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6961 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 22:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 22:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91A3419B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2270C19B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D82219AF6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37F0C19B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38d954a5d27b3145900d481a32aca753@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re:Q about screenshots From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3F8269BC.000001.28961@tajfun.atc.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:40:28 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't know it exactly, nevertheless I think the > display is locked when redraw is in process. > So, cp /dev/screen blbla should wait. no, you get an image beginning with the first screen and ending with the updated one -- try it with some of the faster xscr programs, it almost always occurs.. you can get display locking (man lockdisplay) however most programs don't use it From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 22:43:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 22:43:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7047 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 22:43:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7043 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 22:43:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 22:43:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DBA219B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F97319B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1187719B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DB7819B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h97DnOQ02987 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:49:24 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <00d301c38cb8$b5d6f320$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:49:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Bruce Ellis wrote: > absolute horseshit. i guess you don't understand that the namepace > of the user is in their terminal p9, not on the cpu server. as for your > claims about user priv, well you don't understand auth either. Really? And where is that when I'm running Drawterm for example? And Where do programs run when they're not on the P9 terminal? Do those processes ever need access to those namespaces and the resources made available at that point? As to understanding auth, I didn't write the documents. I'm not the one who has never written a architecture document that is actually in date. > oh and i found this on another mailing list. Cypherpunks, a list I helped operate and define the parameters for. At least until last week when I got tired of taking all the heat, two federal cases in 5 years, five or six subpeonas, enough crap to make a mountain of molehills. > "The relentless mass spamming by professor rat and Jim Choate > keeps new comers away, since 99% of the posts to the list is > from people who hate the ideas that the list was created to > further, and seek to shut it down, to prevent thought about and > discussion of such ideas..." > > Now I know what you do when you don't sprout garbage here. You really should have dug deeper, I run (well ran) one of the Cypherpunks nodes. The 'mass spamming' is a long running conflict between the democratic and CACL contingents on that list. It demonstrates a fundamental hypocrisy in their approach. It's why they did -exactly- what they're supposedly against, create 'statist havens' where they can control other actions. Why don't you explain -exactly- the context of that statement? It shouldn't be hard, I've been on the Cypherpunks list nearly since day one back in '92. There are lots of archives. Why not track it back and better understand the dynamics that caused those comments to be made. And while you're at it, explain what those dynamics. I'll even give you a hint, free speech and users managing their own mailbox instead of appealling to 'daddy' to take care of it. You speak from utter ignorance of the Cypherpunks and the dynamics of that group. Apples and Oranges for no other reason than to satisfy your bruised ego. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 22:50:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 22:50:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7151 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 22:50:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7147 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 22:50:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 22:50:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5449219B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECC7719B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E279A19AEC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A702819B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h97Du9j03020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:56:09 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:56:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > > I challenge you to specifically detail why this is being a dictator. > > > > plus: > > > bootes should be able to alias into any users namespace on that box. > > one word: "1984" I'm still waiting. As to 1984, why read a copy, go to the original source. Zamyatin's "We". 1984 and Brave New World are shallow clones. Typical of the 'western' approach. You can find copies at your local bookstore (both new and used). At least Zamyatkin can say he lived it by putting his own life on the line with that book. > ok, real life example -- North Korea, ca 1988, the hotel in Pyongyang where Ok chuckles, news flash. I'm -not- North Korea. You're blowing smoke. It's called a 'strawman'. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 23:10:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 23:10:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7804 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 23:10:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7800 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 23:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 23:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33AA319B7B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C299E19B1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F5B819B05; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1BA719A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h97E97j29131 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071409.h97E97j29131@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:33:29 +0200." <20031007143327.M4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:09:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Lucio De Re writes: > Specially with recalcitrant learners. There's a difference between recalcitrant learners and ignorant megalomaniacs pushing agendas. I'm all for the former, but trying to win over the latter is a waste of time. It's like trying to have a rational discussion with theo deraddt. I'm sorry, but after *two years* of Choate and his antics, I'm just not willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt anymore. The ignorance, arrogance, posturing, and every post ended by a one-line insult to either someone's intelligence or `tone' is just counter productive. He's been around here a long time, and his posts still indicate he doesn't really know what's going on, but it's for want of listening, not lack of people trying to help him. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time on someone who can't find anything better to do than insult me in return for the time I devote to patiently trying to discuss things with him. Hell, the guy can't even figure out that cat and cp do roughly the same thing. I've even started filtering him out, but I still read his drivel in what other's quote. Oh well. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 23:10:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 23:10:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7811 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 23:10:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7807 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 23:10:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 23:10:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0F0619B7E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C24919B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:10:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3359519991; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E78519A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <678ede1514b04b768f514ef5a7008ce6@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:09:25 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Ok chuckles, news flash. > > I'm -not- North Korea. uninteligent. guess you couldn't see what i was telling you, so you decided it isn't there. go back to dumbing down documentation down "texas style". obviously that's the only contribution you can make to Plan 9. (please, though, let some of your people who speak english do it; someone who knows that "you're" != "your"). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 23:20:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 23:20:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8060 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 23:20:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8056 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 23:20:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 23:20:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C24019B7A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38F0719B88; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 590F619B05; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA43519B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23115 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h97EJ5j29196 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071419.h97EJ5j29196@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:09:25 MDT." <678ede1514b04b768f514ef5a7008ce6@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:19:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca writes: > go back to dumbing down documentation down "texas style". obviously > that's the only contribution you can make to Plan 9. (please, though, > let some of your people who speak english do it; someone who knows > that "you're" != "your"). Actually, I kind of wish he wouldn't do it; incorrect information is even worse than no information, and his information doesn't stand a very good chance of being correct. You know, I'd like to see a picture of Choate. Put a face to the (infamous) name. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 23:39:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 23:39:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8418 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 23:39:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8414 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 23:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 23:39:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E935199E0; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CEEB19A1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9CCD19AEC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7F0519AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-5) with ESMTP id h97EcMeS013291 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:22 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h97EcMh9015214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:22 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h97EcMcc015212 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:22 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:22 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'll post my problem here. It's off topic, but not as there-and-hell-and-gone as a lot of the off topic posts here. I am trying to get the EU to fund my Python-In-Python Project. You can read all about it at http://www.codespeak.net/pypy We're going to do this anyway, but it would be nice to get this done for real in a stretch, rather than on our vacations like we are doing now, even if we get 6 weeks a year unlike you poor Americans with 2. But JIT is not new. Smalltalk did it, and then self did it. We are way more flexible, do type inference (only since last week!!! it works!!!) And we can redo our high level analysis on execution. We will (don't yet) refactor the generated code while interpreting the actual application. This might be thought as "just in time program analysis". Somebody got a sexy word to use to describe us? We need to say 'more than just a JIT' but we aren't so hot with words. Ideas? This has got to be more fun than picking fights with Jim Choate ... Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 7 23:59:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 7 23:59:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8831 invoked by uid 1020); 7 Oct 2003 23:59:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8827 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 23:59:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 23:59:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4632719B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7729D19B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B68319AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nietze.cachelogic.com (unknown [195.74.108.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A73DD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amavis by nietze.cachelogic.com with scanned-ok (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t6i-00033K-NU for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:46:36 +0100 Received: from plato.saviso.com ([192.168.0.2]) by nietze.cachelogic.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6t6b-00033D-7z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100 Received: from 9fs.org (cronus.saviso.com [192.168.0.86]) by plato.saviso.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97Eu6d29414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:56:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3F82D4A4.5030408@9fs.org> From: Nigel Roles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. References: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In-Reply-To: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:58:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Yes, also, while we're at it, shouldn't we get XML into rio? I read about the idea of using XML as a graphics protocol on Slashdot so it must be important... http://slashdot.org/articles/03/10/06/2310218.shtml?tid=104&tid=185&tid=189&tid=190 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:02:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:02:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8919 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:02:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8915 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:02:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:02:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3874119B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D48419B7B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:02:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F111019AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D68019B67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h97F6JX03642; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:06:19 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: Cc: , , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] [texas-hpr] University of Tennessee Amateur Science Survey (fwd) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:06:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.1 required=5.0 tests=GROUPS_YAHOO_1,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, TONER,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:49:56 -0000 From: ron_gilmour Reply-To: rocketry-texas-hpr@yahoogroups.com To: rocketry-texas-hpr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [texas-hpr] University of Tennessee Amateur Science Survey We would like to invite you to participate in the Amateur Science Information Survey (AMSIS). The AMSIS is being conducted by information professionals at the University of Tennessee. This anonymous survey is an attempt to determine where and how amateur scientists find information related to their scientific interests. The online survey takes approximately 10 minutes to fill out. The results of this survey will help libraries provide services and materials to better meet the diverse needs of amateur scientists. To take the survey please go to http://www.lib.utk.edu/cic/amsci/amscisurvey.htm. Sincerely, Travis Dolence Ron Gilmour University of Tennessee Libraries ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/PMYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:14:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:14:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9260 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9256 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:14:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14DC919B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA3E719B6F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E7B9199B6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6E9A19B6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1653 invoked by uid 991); 7 Oct 2003 15:13:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007151306.1652.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-reply-to: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Comments: In-reply-to Laura Creighton message dated "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:38:22 +0200." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:13:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | This might | be thought as "just in time program analysis". Somebody got a sexy word | to use to describe us? We need to say 'more than just a JIT' but we aren't | so hot with words. How about OOE, "optimization upon execution"? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:17:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:17:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9338 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:17:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9334 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:17:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:17:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E285F19B61; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE50519B5D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:17:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE48F199F6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E9A219B72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12636 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h97FGlj29457 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310071516.h97FGlj29457@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:13:06 EDT." <20031007151306.1652.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:16:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How about OOE, "optimization upon execution"? Err, wouldn't that be ``OUE''? - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:24:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:24:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9556 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:24:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9552 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:24:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:24:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2330B19B84; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 595C819B89; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A51A719AC3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E63BE19B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1779 invoked by uid 991); 7 Oct 2003 15:23:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007152322.1778.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-reply-to: <200310071516.h97FGlj29457@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200310071516.h97FGlj29457@augusta.math.psu.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Dan Cross message dated "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:16:47 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:23:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | > How about OOE, "optimization upon execution"? | | Err, wouldn't that be ``OUE''? Me spell good. I was thinking "on" at first, but in hindsight I like how it came out. :) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:41:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:41:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9917 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:41:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9913 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:41:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:41:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60ED219AE1; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE6E219AB6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BBCA19A9E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7476319AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h97FVK610304 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:31:20 -0400 Message-ID: <0efb01c38cea$37428c90$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200310071516.h97FGlj29457@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20031007152322.1778.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:46:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ORT = Optimization at Run Time ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. > | > How about OOE, "optimization upon execution"? > | > | Err, wouldn't that be ``OUE''? > > Me spell good. > > I was thinking "on" at first, but in hindsight I like how > it came out. :) > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:51:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:51:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10066 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:51:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10062 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:51:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:51:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63532199F6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E1DA19AA6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:51:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8F7F19AA6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2FA1199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h97FoaW28350 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200310071550.h97FoaW28350@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ESP = Execution-time Specialization of Programs (or, Python) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:52:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:52:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10091 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:52:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10087 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:52:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:52:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 464FA19B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78C6F199B6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:52:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EEDB119A25; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8419F19AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32e3be4d0c65c2b20684709888fd45ad@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <3F82D4A4.5030408@9fs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:48:31 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) XML everywhere they won't be satisfied until we're using XML/IP. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 00:53:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 00:53:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10103 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 00:53:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10099 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 00:53:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 00:53:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61F3A19B6B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77C1919B9F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:53:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6706C19AC3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2605919991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8333656e713f8c01b24c6e21afac2c3d@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <0efb01c38cea$37428c90$6400a8c0@dell01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:56:33 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Python inside Python I would call it SOS - Spit or Swallow From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 01:02:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 01:02:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10244 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 01:02:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10239 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 01:02:54 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 01:02:54 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C281A19B47; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D93119B67; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:02:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53A15199F6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02403199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b360c003cec01c5d14f0012529624d0@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <32e3be4d0c65c2b20684709888fd45ad@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:05:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) now that is weird, that certainly isn't what I thought I posted I had taken out the length and included a data part with some base64'd data ah, I think maybe I know. I might have pressed escape and taken it out of raw mode then gone back into it again. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 01:03:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 01:03:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10254 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 01:03:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10250 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 01:03:04 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 01:03:04 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6E4619B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E43A19B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:02:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22B1E19A9E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 755C919B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:01:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-121-121-11.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.121.121.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97G1ESP010934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:01:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-Id: <817F1598-F8DF-11D7-B395-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:01:26 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) JIT is even older than that. there was an HP implementation of APL in the 70's that did several layers of optimization on loops. first it interpreted them, then if they were busy it did some collapsing, then if it stayed busy it did some more, then finally it compiled to bare, highly optimized code. i wished i remembered the details. maybe it wasn't done at HP but for an HP machine at BNR. not sure any more. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 01:04:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 01:04:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10278 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 01:04:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10274 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 01:04:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 01:04:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA75919AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBD3119B04; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:04:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC4E319B72; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A64119B97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h97Fre611335 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: <0f1401c38ced$55ac7850$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200310071550.h97FoaW28350@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:09:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ESP = Execution-time Specialization of Programs (or, Python) "Execution" carries some heavy baggage. "Optimization" is a great word, connotes improvement of life at the push of a button. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 02:32:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 02:32:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11728 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 02:32:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11724 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 02:32:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 02:32:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 990F319B2B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BD9219B79; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97AEC19B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD47619B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A6vd1-00066b-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:28:07 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: <4a4c.3f82e457.c7793@blake.inputplus.co.uk> Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: <678ede1514b04b768f514ef5a7008ce6@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <200310071419.h97EJ5j29196@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:27:50 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Dan, > You know, I'd like to see a picture of Choate. Which one of you is Roadrunner, that's what I want to know. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 03:33:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 03:33:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13099 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 03:33:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13095 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 03:33:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 03:33:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5DE319B6B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2805B19B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D07619B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B726219A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69239ed0eda4832cf8644e945d012b7e@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:34:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > and then, in the end, i felt the need for the modified version of ^ > and $ so rarely that i don't really mind not having them. for me, it's been frequent enough to feel a little frustrated by it (particularly when dealing non-line-oriented files). i wouldn't modify the meaning of ^ and $, rooted as they are in antiquity. one could always take a brave leap into the almost unsullied waters of Unicode... for instance, one could use « (unicode 0xab) and » (unicode 0xbb) to indicate a regex anchored to the start or end of "dot". e.g. ,x/[a-zA-Z0-9]+/g/«A/d would delete all alphanumeric sequences starting with the letter 'A'; or ,y/[ \t\n]/y/«./g/./|tr 'A-Z' 'a-z' would lowercase all but the first letter of all words. (aside: has anyone found a good use for the fact that "y" selects null ranges?) or ,x/^\.TS/.,/^\.TE/y/«...\n/y/...»/x/.*\n»/g/pattern/d would delete the last line of a tbl table if it contained "pattern". it seems useful and quite natural to use (and the implementation looks trivial, in acme at any rate). BTW while on minor sam/acme gripes, is it a bug or a feature that if a file is written, changed, and the change undone, the file is not marked as changed? this means that X/'/w is not guaranteed to write out all files that have been modified from their on-disk copies, and has bitten me more than once (i don't use that idiom any more!) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 03:49:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 03:49:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13495 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 03:49:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13491 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 03:49:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 03:49:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 981A119A14; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63F0019A9E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:49:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05DD119A14; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C465B19A9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97ImCgr011605 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:48:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <69239ed0eda4832cf8644e945d012b7e@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:48:12 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> and then, in the end, i felt the need for the modified version of ^ >> and $ so rarely that i don't really mind not having them. > > for me, it's been frequent enough to feel a little frustrated by it > (particularly when dealing non-line-oriented files). > > i wouldn't modify the meaning of ^ and $, rooted as they are in > antiquity. one could always take a brave leap into the almost > unsullied waters of Unicode... the waters of special characters for regex hacking are muddy enough already. i've been in them before and i'm nice and clean now. no, thanks. > BTW while on minor sam/acme gripes, is it a bug or a feature that if a > file is written, changed, and the change undone, the file is not > marked as changed? this means that X/'/w is not guaranteed to write > out all files that have been modified from their on-disk copies, and > has bitten me more than once (i don't use that idiom any more!) feature. otherwise you couldn't undo to the point it was clean. ever do this? (probably not) X/'/u send that until nothing happens and you've backed up to the last clean instance. you can even snarf and send a bunch of them: X/'/u X/'/u X/'/u X/'/u X/'/u X/'/u X/'/u ... weird, but it works. (to do a particular file, put more detail in the pattern.) -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 03:54:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 03:54:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13632 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 03:54:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13628 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 03:54:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 03:54:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0338619A14; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C53D319B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:54:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D99319A02; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B8D619A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97KGj108816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:16:45 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <11968.135.214.42.162.1065557805.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <69239ed0eda4832cf8644e945d012b7e@vitanuova.com> References: <69239ed0eda4832cf8644e945d012b7e@vitanuova.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:16:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i wouldn't modify the meaning of ^ and $, rooted as they are in > antiquity. one could always take a brave leap into the almost > unsullied waters of Unicode... > > for instance, one could use « (unicode 0xab) and » (unicode 0xbb) to > indicate a regex anchored to the start or end of "dot". > before taking a brave leap, i think we need to make sure the concept will work on all environments. Can we enter unicode characters easily in Plan 9, Inferno, and Sam for Windows and any other ports with Plan9/Inferno origin (like Inferno IE plugin) using a single method and without any problem? If not, I suggest we try something else (Is it possible to use multiple characters instead?). It becomes easier for users to remember a single style. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 04:00:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 04:00:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13802 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 04:00:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13798 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 04:00:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 04:00:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2071019B8D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8535319B8A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91C1219AC3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5B87199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glenda (none@glenda.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.226]) by amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97IxR606033; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:59:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsc@swtch.com) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: <11968.135.214.42.162.1065557805.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:59:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) just what we need -- more characters to escape in regular expressions. if you're going to change anything, it makes more sense to sully ^ and $ even further. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 04:08:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 04:08:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14034 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 04:08:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14030 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 04:08:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 04:08:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20B8C19B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AD4B19B91; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13B1E19B8A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF73A19B70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97KUW108874 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42665.135.214.42.162.1065558632.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Eric, > A few years ago I wrote a filterfs exclude files matching a > regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing > part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in > the past, there can be times when you need to effectively > delete things from Venti. > > It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm > willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. I just want to know what you decided on. It would be nice if you can put it on sources. Things like filterfs are special-purpose ones but I think it is worth saving the code in a way it is usable when needed. Let it be there like a parachute lying somewhere in the flight. We will use it when needed. Thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 04:17:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 04:17:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14236 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 04:17:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14232 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 04:17:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 04:17:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC0D919B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4D4C19B9C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE2F619B97; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5880F19A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3309 invoked by uid 991); 7 Oct 2003 19:16:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20031007191642.3308.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-reply-to: b97cf5005ac1ff07062eb59326e4ec1b@plan9.bell-labs.com References: b97cf5005ac1ff07062eb59326e4ec1b@plan9.bell-labs.com Comments: In-reply-to "Russ Cox" rsc@swtch.com message dated "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:59:27 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:16:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | just what we need -- more characters to escape in regular expressions. | if you're going to change anything, it makes more sense to sully ^ and $ | even further. Alternatively, do what perl does: punctuation uses backslash to turn the magic off, letters use punctuation to turn it on. So \a and \z could be the end markers. You'd seldom type that, so they're free to use. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 04:22:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 04:22:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14388 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 04:22:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14384 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 04:22:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 04:22:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91C0619B8A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C02619BA6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6AC6E19B7B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49E0419B90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97JKWgr023238 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:20:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20031007191642.3308.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:20:32 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Alternatively, do what perl does: punctuation uses backslash > to turn the magic off, letters use punctuation to turn it on. > So \a and \z could be the end markers. You'd seldom type > that, so they're free to use. This breaks the rules we worked so hard to establish in Plan 9 regular expressions: \ is used only to make something unmagic. The double meaning of \ in Unix and especially Perl REs is regrettable at best. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 04:36:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 04:36:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14831 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 04:36:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14827 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 04:36:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 04:36:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09A16199DE; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BCC219B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F87919B0C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61E8D19AE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2142415fdf60928b17e4ecd46b4b8335@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <817F1598-F8DF-11D7-B395-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:31:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ronald L Johnston, The Dynamic Incremental Compiler of APL3000. APL79 Conference Proceedings, pages 82-87, June 1979. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 05:32:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 05:32:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16323 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 05:32:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16319 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 05:32:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 05:32:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3025F19B9E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8620C19B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:32:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF77419AAF; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2890519A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97KVPgr012081 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:31:25 -0700 Message-ID: <9146ea5f65b76ea40501ef723c52012a@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <2142415fdf60928b17e4ecd46b4b8335@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:31:24 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Ronald L Johnston, The Dynamic Incremental Compiler of APL3000. > APL79 Conference Proceedings, pages 82-87, June 1979. maybe. i think i saw one older than that, or maybe later but derived from it. its salient feature was that it did multiple compilations, devoting more energy to optimization as the usage of the code went up. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 06:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 06:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18128 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 06:40:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18124 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 06:40:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 06:40:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CF9519B0C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B50F319B6B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3207F19B05; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 591F219B2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30060 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 21:39:06 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 21:39:06 -0000 Message-ID: <02d201c38d1b$c20dbee0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:35:36 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> absolute horseshit. i guess you don't understand that the namepace >> of the user is in their terminal p9, not on the cpu server. as for your >> claims about user priv, well you don't understand auth either. > >Really? And where is that when I'm running Drawterm for example? where do you think? drawterm sets up and maintains a namespace which is exported to the cpu server just as a p9 terminal does. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 07:15:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 07:15:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19014 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 07:15:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19010 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 07:15:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 07:15:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88EE119B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0304C19B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:15:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F3CE19B6B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07F1D19B2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 4E8A0393A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id DE3653937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pnp110.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.110]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3766.199.98.20.110.1065564450.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <02d201c38d1b$c20dbee0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> References: <02d201c38d1b$c20dbee0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:07:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Really? And where is that when I'm running Drawterm for example? > > where do you think? drawterm sets up and maintains a namespace > which is exported to the cpu server just as a p9 terminal does. > from drawterm(8): > drawterm serves its local name space as well as some devices (the > keyboard, mouse, and screen) to a remote CPU server Seems to me that this is a *minimal* namespace - /dev/draw, mouse, and cons; as well as some serving of the local (windows or *n?x) file system. VNC might have been a better example - it doesn't appear to provide *anything* but the keyboard/mouse/screen --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 07:40:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 07:40:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19603 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 07:40:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19599 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 07:40:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 07:40:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A766919A97; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D09C19B7F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BA6319B6B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5E7519B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:38:49 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) look jim, don't go 'head to head' with brucee. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 07:43:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 07:43:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19705 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 07:43:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19701 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 07:43:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 07:43:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9390019B09; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6157C19B73; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39CE119AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C34819A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <200310071438.h97EcMcc015212@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:42:16 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) pypy is a joke. and where is my book? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 07:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 07:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19750 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 07:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19746 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 07:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 07:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C799619B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B832E19A93; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91D8919B23; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 028DB199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <8333656e713f8c01b24c6e21afac2c3d@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:45:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'm with you, captain ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 08:08:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 08:08:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20174 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 08:08:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20170 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 08:08:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 08:08:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3AFE19B88; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFA119B91; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:08:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33F0219AF3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 698D619B6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dell01 (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h97Mw5630793 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:58:05 -0400 Message-ID: <108701c38d28$a1272010$6400a8c0@dell01> From: "Wes Kussmaul" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:13:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > pypy is a joke. and where is my book? You want ~500 pages on your screen or would you rather have paper. I can send the former right now, the latter in a week. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 08:29:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 08:29:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20650 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 08:29:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20646 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 08:29:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 08:29:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3B6E19B91; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3859419B9E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A675B19B3C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C94AE19AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:19:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) another problem with the 'echo 'rebooting now' > /dev/screen/*' or whatever is the fact that it requires more specific resources to exist. my primary interaction with plan 9 these days is (sadly) via ssh (ether on Virtual PC, anyone?), so most of the common /dev entries present on a terminal, via drawterm, or via vnc won't show up for me. i've used a system based around /chan in inferno (/chan is more or less inferno's version of /srv), and been quite pleased. it's been a few years, but we may have even had the same file visable in both plan 9 and inferno. we had a little logger window that printed out messages and un-minimized itself when one came in, or you could just cat it if you're on a text console. the point of doing it that way was it offered a ton of flexability as far as the software that presented the message to the user (from 'cat' to our Limbo/Tk app). and whatever the software was, it was really simple, and the user could choose where the notifications went, how they were presented, &c.; not so with the schemes using direct manipulation of things in /dev. i suspect the plumber could be used to great effect here. that's another amazing bit of kit. i've also played around with system-wide "profiles", executed via /rc/lib/rcmain, before the $home/lib/profile, but wasn't sure what i though of that. it's useful, to be sure, but another thing to maintan and another thing going on more-or-less without the users knowledge. which isn't always a bad thing, but... this is all in addition to the security/architecture complaints people have pointed out so far, which i think are dead on. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 08:35:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 08:35:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20814 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 08:35:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20809 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 08:35:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 08:35:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1F3019A93; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F49419B4B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:35:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B159019A93; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A55C199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39492b1a68c11205a013b8bc19221f27@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:34:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) After another context-free belly-rumble: On Tue Oct 7 18:46:49 EDT 2003, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > i'm with you, captain ... perhaps someone should take you up on this: On Mon Oct 6 14:11:00 EDT 2003, boyd@sdgm.net wrote: > > double edged sword. > > If you don't bother giving your opinion as to why, your post is useless > noise. Please either refrain from posting or spend that little more > time making a useful post. > > like i said above: doomed if you post to little, doomed if you post too much. > > perhaps i should get you to edit my posts for me? I know how I would edit most of your posts. Seriously, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 08:46:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 08:46:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21205 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 08:46:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21201 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 08:46:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 08:46:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1EBA19B23; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3105019AC7; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 517A619A93; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF87A19B1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4570605b02afeab2d6bf3061ac5bd370@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <39492b1a68c11205a013b8bc19221f27@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:45:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Seriously, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say it. yeah, that has not crossed my mind. so when you're all fired, well ... i'll just unsubscribe. hell, maybe i'll do it right now. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 08:56:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 08:56:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21517 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 08:56:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21487 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 08:56:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 08:56:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 807BB19AC7; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EFB719B6A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F64B19A8C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3E0D19B3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4bdcafd0e3e8e97e4cfa1e22f0a64350@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re:Q about screenshots In-Reply-To: <38d954a5d27b3145900d481a32aca753@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rexuqrhzkqjjimpsamkwjyphku" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:51:50 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rexuqrhzkqjjimpsamkwjyphku Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think that's locking for processes sharing the display data structures within a shared address space, not locking the display itself, and indeed that's what {man lockdisplay} seems to describe! --upas-rexuqrhzkqjjimpsamkwjyphku Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1A6s5o-0006k7-Fg; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:48:41 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A6s5o-0006k7-Fg for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:41:36 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91A3419B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2270C19B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D82219AF6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37F0C19B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38d954a5d27b3145900d481a32aca753@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re:Q about screenshots From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3F8269BC.000001.28961@tajfun.atc.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:40:28 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I don't know it exactly, nevertheless I think the > display is locked when redraw is in process. > So, cp /dev/screen blbla should wait. no, you get an image beginning with the first screen and ending with the updated one -- try it with some of the faster xscr programs, it almost always occurs.. you can get display locking (man lockdisplay) however most programs don't use it --upas-rexuqrhzkqjjimpsamkwjyphku-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 09:19:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 09:19:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22559 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 09:17:11 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22502 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 09:16:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 09:16:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92ED419B87; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 315D719B1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E239919AC7; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CA9919A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2dafe90cc358619b135ef3612fffaffd@sdgm.net> From: boyd@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. In-Reply-To: <39492b1a68c11205a013b8bc19221f27@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:15:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Seriously, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say it. i'm unsubscribed. have fun ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 09:27:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 09:27:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23326 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 09:27:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23199 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 09:27:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 09:27:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3B8F19B2C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4232B19B20; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:27:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26D2C19A40; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FC1719A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h980Q8gr024705 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: <45320ca980f518c157dcce30eee2a2b8@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <2dafe90cc358619b135ef3612fffaffd@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:26:08 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i'm unsubscribed. have fun ... well done, jmk! -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 10:44:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 10:44:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27471 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 10:44:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27453 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 10:44:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 10:44:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A4BA19B04; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD46C19AF3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E8A019AC7; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C77A19AD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4dfb25ecb707c8577004bb236728616b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <4b5896c2fd67bab2c8149940087d8d0f@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:43:48 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > my bets are on brucee Because Jim Choate pretends he knows that! Of course, unfortunately, he doesn't. If someone who wants to be teached by someone, he should say, "May I ask you..." Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:18:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:18:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29540 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:18:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29533 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:18:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:18:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AA8719AA6; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6A5319AFC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98D8419AD8; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 671E119AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19c3de2ec4c89ec8a9c63ebf2579ac6b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <4570605b02afeab2d6bf3061ac5bd370@sdgm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:18:23 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > so when you're all fired, well ... Seriously, what will hapeen if this comes real... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:26:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:26:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30029 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:26:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29936 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:25:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:25:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 355FE19B1F; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5EBB19B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 105C719AE2; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C708319AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18814d09032655e7112ad11263b117be@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] mouse dragging Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:25:46 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I was asked by a very newbie where is "trash can". Well, we haven't one. I tried to tell her why we don't need it. However, in my deep mind, I doubted it to myself. I really don't need it? We have no use of mouse dragging. If we can drag a file object in a directory window to another window, and if it means copying the object, or if we have choding of left+middle to a file in a directory window means to delete the object, we have any problem? Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:30:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:30:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30154 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:29:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30135 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:29:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:29:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA40D19B3D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C43C19B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13A1019AC5; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B77AC19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h982Z8L07071; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:35:08 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:35:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 a@9srv.net wrote: > another problem with the 'echo 'rebooting now' > /dev/screen/*' or > whatever is the fact that it requires more specific resources to > exist. my primary interaction with plan 9 these days is (sadly) via > ssh (ether on Virtual PC, anyone?), so most of the common /dev > entries present on a terminal, via drawterm, or via vnc won't show > up for me. I don't see that as a serious problem. After all rio runs from a rc prompt. Looks to me like all connections start with a rc shell that then invokes other programs in some manner. So track the initial connection and then as other things get cranked up (eg rio) you simply follow the chain. The OS has to have a means (probably vector tables of one sort or another) to keep track of it. And as to there not being a /dev, that's a simple issue of creating a logical alias on that initial rc connection into /dev/display/*. As that gets updated (ie I execute the 'rio' command) another logical device could be added or even replace the rc connection. In the case of a serial device the logical link would work the same way once the handshaking was completed. It's not like there is any magic there, it's bits, it -all- breaks down to read/write/and/or/not/shift/jump on bits in ram or a register in the final analysis. The bottom line is that my view is that the complexity should be in the OS hidden from the users (including bootes/eve) and the users shouldn't have to jump through hoops to do things as simple as sending a note to all logged in users. The exact scope of that permission (ie should it be bootes/eve or all users or just particular groups) should be left up to the system operators and a config script of some sort. The ability to share resources -is just as important- as being able to prevent access. Perhaps more so if you're speaking of individuals working on groups. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:31:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:31:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30214 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:31:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30209 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:31:29 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:31:29 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2399619B23; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A10F819AFC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:31:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFA1619AAD; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93FDD19AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h982bMt07098; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:37:22 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: <18814d09032655e7112ad11263b117be@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:37:22 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I was asked by a very newbie where is "trash can". > Well, we haven't one. I tried to tell her why we don't need it. > However, in my deep mind, I doubted it to myself. > I really don't need it? Of course you don't need it if you don't have a iconic display and from what I can tell rio may be graphical it isn't iconic. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:41:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:41:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30756 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:41:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30739 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:41:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:41:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5322B19B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CED8D19B1E; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C970C19B04; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CD63219B26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18655 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 02:40:31 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 02:40:31 -0000 Message-ID: <005501c38d45$ddb19b10$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:42:46 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) jmk's original solution achieves this without the operating system knowing about rio or any other program. > users shouldn't have to jump through hoops to do things as simple as > sending a note to all logged in users. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31017 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:46:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31013 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2661319B52; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4BE919B20; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23E1219AC3; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF44319B04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h982q1D07202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:52:01 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <005501c38d45$ddb19b10$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:52:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Bruce Ellis wrote: > jmk's original solution achieves this without the operating system > knowing about rio or any other program. Really? What solution was that, plumbing? That is certainly another program. If that were true this would be a non-issue and the original question would have been some simple command line that had a message string and some sort of target list (where all users would be a wild card like *). It is certainly possible to only want to send messages to classes or groups of users so using a regex needs to be available in the solution s well. If it runs it's a program, if it doesn't run its data. Period. There is zero gray area. If the user has to do anything other than provide the name of the program, the message, and some identifier for the target group it's too complicated. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 11:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 11:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31327 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 11:51:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31323 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 11:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 11:51:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAC1419AFC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B01E19B2A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A671619B20; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.monitorbm.co.nz (www.monitorbm.co.nz [203.167.201.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D371219AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6671 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 02:50:41 -0000 Received: from mercury.mbmnz.co.nz (HELO MERCURY.monitorbm.co.nz) (192.168.0.63) by mail.monitorbm.co.nz with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 02:50:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20031008154611.00aec290@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> X-Sender: andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz@pop.monitorbm.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Andrew Simmons Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: <18814d09032655e7112ad11263b117be@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac .jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:50:29 +1300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 11:25 8/10/2003 +0900, you wrote: >I was asked by a very newbie where is "trash can". >Well, we haven't one. I tried to tell her why we don't need it. >However, in my deep mind, I doubted it to myself. >I really don't need it? > >We have no use of mouse dragging. If we can drag a file object >in a directory window to another window, and if it means copying >the object, or if we have choding of left+middle to a file in a directory >window means to delete the object, we have any problem? > >Kenji The trash can on the Mac is supposed to provide a safety net, so that after a file is "deleted", it stays in the trash can until you explicitly empty the trash, giving you a chance to change your mind about the deletion. I find in practice that I always empty the trash without thinking immediately after putting a file there, so that in my case the safety net is illusory, and only slows me down. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 12:49:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 12:49:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1617 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 12:49:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1613 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 12:49:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 12:49:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A96F619B1A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B43E019991; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FC6A19B0C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4E6219AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8594FCEA9; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. Message-ID: <20031008034954.GA20607@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> References: <200310071516.h97FGlj29457@augusta.math.psu.edu> <20031007152322.1778.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031007152322.1778.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:49:54 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > | > How about OOE, "optimization upon execution"? > | > | Err, wouldn't that be ``OUE''? > > Me spell good. > > I was thinking "on" at first, but in hindsight I like how > it came out. :) I think my script has an oweee. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 13:05:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 13:05:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32478 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 12:16:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32357 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 12:13:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 12:13:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 154BA19B20; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D3D419B2C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:13:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3092E19B23; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 947CA19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 79042 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 03:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 03:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 03:12:43 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h983CgL249132; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:12:42 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <832a6c57bb30de122edf49083616c7c4@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:12:35 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 8 11:25:35 JST 2003, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I was asked by a very newbie where is "trash can". > Well, we haven't one. I tried to tell her why we don't need it. > However, in my deep mind, I doubted it to myself. > I really don't need it? if you are discussing about the safety net property of trash-can, i should say you don't need it as long as you are backed up by either worm file system or venti/fossil. you can retrieve it from /n/dump whenever you want it with specific date. or if the user interface is in question, you might need the trash-can for a certain kind of user. but you can easily achieve some form of the interface in acme(1). just type `rm' in tag line, select the file name to delete, execute the `rm' on the tag line with middle-left mouse chording. furthermore, you can copy rm(1) to whatever you like and use it instead. eg. `Gomibako' or `trash'. even Japanese Kanji command name is fine in Plan 9. :) -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 13:48:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 13:48:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5070 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 13:48:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5066 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 13:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 13:48:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 969CC19B1A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 716F719B67; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0481D199F6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBCCA19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h984kvFR026717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:46:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] some of you guys clearly need something else to think about. From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:46:55 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We're going to do this > anyway, but it would be nice to get this done for real in a stretch, rather > than on our vacations like we are doing now, even if we get 6 weeks a year > unlike you poor Americans with 2. We get the other 4 weeks in the form of a national entertainment extravaganza called the "California Recall Elections". > This has got to be more fun than picking fights with Jim Choate ... Wounldn't bet on it. How about "Optimizing Python In a Unique Manner" or "Optimizing Python Is Useful, Mostly" -- both have the same acronym: OPIUM And the obvious logo should be a python consuming itself. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 14:28:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 14:28:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7562 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 14:28:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7551 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 14:28:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 14:28:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FC7C19B43; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCDA119B81; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:28:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7182619AAD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBE1419B04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h985YGN08201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:34:16 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <3766.199.98.20.110.1065564450.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:34:16 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Joel Salomon wrote: > VNC might have been a better example - it doesn't appear to provide > *anything* but the keyboard/mouse/screen I'm not sure I follow your exact point here, so I'll respond to what I think you mean... But processes don't run on the VNC console so this example is actualy moot. So if you could write to that display on that box the fact its exported by VNC would not be an issue. If it did then VNC would be capable of -modifying- the bit stream, not just creating a copy and sending it elsewhere, and that should be a no no. It's on somebody elses hardware and generaly trying to impose your views there is a Bad Thing (TM) without their consent. The rc and rio processes would still be running on the server, not the VNC console. And that is where you want to write the wall to. The VNC will pick it up as part of its normal operations. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 14:42:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 14:42:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8368 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 14:42:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8364 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 14:42:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 14:42:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 009FF19B05; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10B4719B87; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0911419A14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D55A19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h985m2h08246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:48:02 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <02d201c38d1b$c20dbee0$c901a8c0@cc77109e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:48:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Bruce Ellis wrote: > drawterm sets up and maintains a namespace > which is exported to the cpu server just as a p9 terminal does. Exactly! So if a write to the structures on the cpu would work locally they will work with drawterm, since the processes are running on the cpu server side and that is the box that wants to send the shutdown warning. The fact that I'm accessing those resources via drawterm is really moot. With reference to the box the drawterm itself is running on, that's a function of that OS and isn't an issue with drawterm or the cpu server. When that box goes down drawterm will be killed in some manner and as a result the connection to the cpu server is closed and those resources are released and there isn't anything else to send a message to about the cpu shutdown (assuming there aren't other users on of course) because that resource pool has already been released. And I challenge the 'just as a P9 terminal does', I am assuming by 'terminal' you mean I/O server. The difference is that the I/O server can run processes locally whereas drawterm can't. So there is clearly a difference in the way namespaces can interact, and the limits on which the two approaches can interact with that data stream. One example is that a I/O server could export its local kfs to a process on that cpu server, but drawterm can't export its local filesystem. Near as I can tell if you want that you need to use native tools to export that to the cpu server and then you can import it into a namespace. The final observation about drawterm is that it's one way, a user can use drawterm on a box to modify the cpu server but the cpu server can't modify the drawterm host outside of the drawterm resources. If you could run a process on the cpu server and use that to 'tunnel' through drawterm and, for example, reset the drawterm host that would clearly be a bug in drawterm. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 17:08:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 17:08:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17055 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 17:08:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17050 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:08:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:08:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 404FC19B2C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 629B619B4B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6C9E199F6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBB7A19A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:07:05 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > rio may be graphical it isn't iconic No, Plan 9 users can read. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 17:10:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 17:10:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17243 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 17:10:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17239 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:10:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:10:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 446A819A96; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 037B619B1E; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:10:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2ADEC19A6A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FF2819A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <42665.135.214.42.162.1065558632.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xebuurzuqpmtovriycxiboarsr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:09:43 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xebuurzuqpmtovriycxiboarsr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to get filterfs too. thanks in any case. --upas-xebuurzuqpmtovriycxiboarsr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Oct 7 21:08:44 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8294319B81; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6AD4B19B91; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13B1E19B8A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF73A19B70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97KUW108874 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42665.135.214.42.162.1065558632.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, > A few years ago I wrote a filterfs exclude files matching a > regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing > part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in > the past, there can be times when you need to effectively > delete things from Venti. > > It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm > willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. I just want to know what you decided on. It would be nice if you can put = it on sources. Things like filterfs are special-purpose ones but I think it = is worth saving the code in a way it is usable when needed. Let it be there like a parachute lying somewhere in the flight. We will use it when neede= d. Thanks dharani --upas-xebuurzuqpmtovriycxiboarsr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 17:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 17:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19468 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 17:46:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19463 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C16AE19B79; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B1A619B70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:46:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C735319A1D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C59A519B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A79qX-0007KC-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20031007191642.3308.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu>, Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:37:39 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rob pike, esq. wrote: > ... The double meaning of \ in Unix and especially > Perl REs is regrettable at best. And especially in troff macro diversions. I recall seeing \\\\\\\\ on more than one occasion. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 17:46:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 17:46:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19493 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 17:46:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19489 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:46:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:46:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBF3419BA5; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1095219B98; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:46:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB72519B69; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD61D19B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A79rK-0007Lp-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:39:50 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20031007124103.J4625@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:39:08 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jim Choate wrote: > Users can't trust the OS, they can only trust the group running it, or > not. A fundamental and basic security flaw that has let more than one > hacker into a system. And will continue to do so until people get burned > enough to realize that 'trust' -only- applies to people, never things. ... Sheesh. People are things too. > This is one advantage, security through obscurity, ... That is an abuse of the term "security through obscurity", originally introduced only as a label for a failed idea, not as a recommendation. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 17:47:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 17:47:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19528 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 17:47:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19524 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:47:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:47:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3DFC19B4B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CE3619B23; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:47:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A9D519B35; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E25E619B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:45:55 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:45:44 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'd like to get filterfs too. > thanks in any case. me too. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 18:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 18:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22163 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 18:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22159 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 18:46:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E85FB19AF7; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7F3119A0D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37F1619B75; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 044C619A8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A7Amb-0000SA-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:36:43 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi Jim, > It's not like there is any magic there, it's bits, it -all- breaks > down to read/write/and/or/not/shift/jump on bits in ram or a register > in the final analysis. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing that technical solutions can't be implemented -- it's just a simple matter of programming... > The bottom line is that my view is that the complexity should be in > the OS hidden from the users but it could be that they feel it's better to not have the facility until a non-complex method can be conceived rather than add complexity anywhere, including the OS. Cheers, -- Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 18:46:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 18:46:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22194 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 18:46:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22189 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 18:46:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 18:46:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFF4319B9C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EF3F19B98; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:46:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B95D019B83; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8B0119B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 05:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A7Amb-0000SG-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: Organization: InputPlus Ltd. References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:36:54 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > look jim, don't go 'head to head' with brucee. Butt out, boyd. Go-orrn, brucee. 'it 'im. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 22:31:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 22:31:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28745 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 22:31:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28741 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 22:31:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 22:31:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D24219B2D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5C7619AC5; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFFBE19AAD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64E4819A97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98Dc7H01396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:38:07 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:38:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > > The bottom line is that my view is that the complexity should be in > > the OS hidden from the users > > but it could be that they feel it's better to not have the facility > until a non-complex method can be conceived rather than add complexity > anywhere, including the OS. I understand that point, clearly. I want it to be as simple as possible with a couple of provisos, * there should be -no- additional programming or commands for a user to do this. The basic skeleton is already there in the namespace and that is where it needs to stay. Not in some command line solution. That's an ugly kludge at best. In other words it must be consistent with the current cat/cp sort of approach, if another approach is taken the this add another layer of commands and that complicates things. People expect to be able to cat/cp to anything in a namespace, and that includes hardare. It's all a filesystem after all, and any other approach will break that paradigm and add confusion. * it needs to be available to all users, with the owner of the box where the hardware is resident being in control of the security. * it needs to work across -all- hardware devices such as displays, keyboards, mice, soundcards, etc. It is critical that P9 make it as easy as possible to share these resources, as well as deny the sharing. Standard file permissions look like the cats meow to me. * the owner of the box is the one who decides the range of these services and nobody else. * since there are at least two filesystems that a cpu server can run native (ie kfs and fossil) it needs to be outside of those; otherwise you've got to write the code twice - yuck. That leaves only -one- place, the kernel. This implies two points worth delineating; 1. devices need to be 'logged' at boot. 2. each new user connection that generates a std out/std err needs to be included. 3. it can't make any different to the command syntax or the recipient of such messages what their interface is. I see this functionality as critical to the real world success of P9. For example with this VoIP becomes easy; I cat my microphone to your sound card and visa versa. Musicians sharing a set of MIDI channels from several seperate locations becomes easy. It would have a big impact in training & education with regard to being able to grab students displays one at a time, as well as being able to dump content to them all at once. Robotics with respect to agent clouds becomes a lot simpler than anything that's out there now. MMOG's would recieve a massive boost from this sort of sharing with regard to having the actual engine running in a processor cloud. This helps solve the 'shared world synchronicity' problem in a big way (for examples ping times become something the game can use directly to level the playing field). Couple this with things like global sign-on and you really start to see the power. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 22:33:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 22:33:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28778 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 22:33:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28774 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 22:33:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 22:33:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96D0819A97; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D15CF19B46; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9996319B43; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F40E19A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98DeeZ01405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:40:40 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:40:39 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > Sheesh. People are things too. Oh god... > > This is one advantage, security through obscurity, ... > > That is an abuse of the term "security through obscurity", > originally introduced only as a label for a failed idea, > not as a recommendation. No it's not. It injects a level of complexity or resource usage that makes the cost of doing the job higher. The intent of that is to lock out those who don't have the entry level resources. It's an -exactly- fair use of the term. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 22:40:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 22:40:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28929 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 22:40:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28925 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 22:40:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 22:40:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C441D19B47; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A49C19B73; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A5C119B70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0273119B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98DlRv01458 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:47:27 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:47:27 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Richard Miller wrote: > > rio may be graphical it isn't iconic > > No, Plan 9 users can read. Which isn't necessarily a plus, and in fact in some cases may be hubris. It is often true that a picture is worth a thousand words. In addittion there are issues about efficiency where a non-iconic interface is deficient when compared to a iconic one. The reason being it takes a lot longer to type than click once. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 22:58:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 22:58:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29397 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 22:58:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29393 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 22:58:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 22:58:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B094A19B75; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3563419B86; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 206FC19AF3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69AF019B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07586 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h98DvGj00069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310081357.h98DvGj00069@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:36:54 GMT." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:57:16 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Ralph Corderoy writes: > > > look jim, don't go 'head to head' with brucee. > > Butt out, boyd. > > Go-orrn, brucee. 'it 'im. You know, as much as you complain about it, you should take your own advice about zero-content posts. In particular, you might have noticed that boyd unsubscribed, so you're just talking to thin air. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 23:19:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 23:19:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30087 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30083 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 23:19:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BA0219A70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A087019AF3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C90E519A70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86D8E19AC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88a44f3d3a458f1355166670212ff726@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:21:08 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Exactly! So if a write to the structures on the cpu would work locally they > will work with drawterm, since the processes are running on the cpu server > side and that is the box that wants to send the shutdown warning. The fact > that I'm accessing those resources via drawterm is really moot. you're assuming, i believe, that connections to the cpu server are uniform: i.e. that each connection to the cpu server imports a namespace from the remote side that contains a draw device, etc. in fact that's not necessarily the case: if i distrust the cpu server, i might export to it a namespace containing only my /dev/cons. in fact, if i telnet to the cpu server, there's no namespace (and who's to say that i'm not running some odd protocol over the telnet link?) to get back to the original request (how do we inform all users that the machine is going down?): while mail is an option, it doesn't necessarily work well, particularly if there are many cpu servers, going up and down frequently: users would be likely to get many irrelevant messages. surely all one needs is a per-machine service that provides such information to whoever asks for it? something simple in /srv should do the job. that way, users can choose to display the info however their GUI preferences might indicate; moreover, the information is potentially available to non-interactive programs that might wish to take evasive action in the fact in imminent shutdown. rog. PS. of course, "wall" in unix-like systems doesn't necessarily help much in these GUI-oriented days: who's to say a user is displaying the output from any ptys? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 23:31:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 23:31:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30387 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 23:31:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30383 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:31:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 23:31:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DACEB19AA9; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C88519B46; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 006C019AC9; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8669219B18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01f875bc44c8a8eb4a88b148e8984f4f@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:33:22 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > just what we need -- more characters to escape in regular expressions. > if you're going to change anything, it makes more sense to sully ^ and $ > even further. s'pose so. seems a pity. it seems to work quite nicely now i've implemented it. it's not like « and » are common characters to search for. one could double them, i guess: ^^ and $$. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 23:42:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 23:42:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30601 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 23:42:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30597 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:42:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 23:42:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06D7E19B05; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3D3B19B69; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7930B19B5F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F7E019AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <901ffe144ad4644ef2996d3de65bae17@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:44:16 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > feature. otherwise you couldn't undo to the point it was clean. hmm. "was clean" is quite different from "is clean". (both are useful, but they're orthogonal to one another). perhaps the 'f' line could indicate both (e.g. with an extra space/backquote to indicate "is clean"). while on the subject of undo/redo, would it be terrible to have a "Redoall" command? as when clicking repetitively on "Redo" i invariably click one too many times (whereupon the "Redo" has replaced itself by "Put") and write the file unintentionally, sometimes with annoying results. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 23:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 23:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30633 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 23:44:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30629 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:44:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 23:44:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C444319B5C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA6A619B87; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 481C319B2C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E1AF19B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: rt@anothy.9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:24:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // After all rio runs from a rc prompt. the process, of course, might not be around. see exec in rc(1). // So track the initial connection and... *who* tracks the initial connectin? you're adding complexity here, either directly to rc (which is likely unproductive for the above reason, among others) or to the OS (some sort of "reporting mechanism", most likely). // ...not being a /dev, that's a simple issue of creating a logical // alias on that initial rc connection into /dev/display/*. uh, what? i'm going to have something *pretend* to be a graphics device, just for the purposes of system notices? and how does it tell other gui apps (or how do they all figure out) that it's not a *real* graphics device? again, added complexity. part of the "everything is a file, and *just* a file" model, with plan 9's namespace system, means that the only way these apps know what's what is convention. apps *assume* /dev/draw is a graphics device. you could put your net or audio device there without issue, but thigs are gonna get fsck'd up. what hoops are you worried about users jumping through? we (or the guys at the labs) make a change to /sys/lib/newuser to start some listener, or /rc/lib/rcmain sources some system-wide startup, containing reasonable defaults. plumber starts every time i log in, my apps know how to talk to it, and i get all these "magical" benifits of things working nicely together, all without any hoop-jumping. i have no idea what you're concerned about here. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 8 23:45:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 8 23:45:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30659 invoked by uid 1020); 8 Oct 2003 23:45:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30655 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 23:45:32 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 23:45:32 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C37CB19B91; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 573DF19B9F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2582B19BA8; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 327E619B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2003 16:43:05 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h98Eifu6027334 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:44:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id PAA17688 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:44:45 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Message-ID: <20031008154445.L22396@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <01f875bc44c8a8eb4a88b148e8984f4f@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <01f875bc44c8a8eb4a88b148e8984f4f@vitanuova.com>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 03:33:22PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:44:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 03:33:22PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > it's not like « and » are common characters to search for. Well I seem to recall that they are in the sam source so that one can do the click-inside-quote and have the selection cover the whole quote. So which (natural, I assume) language uses those as quote characters? DF From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:00:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:00:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31169 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:00:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31165 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:00:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:00:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2E6C19B90; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E0F719B73; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E20DE199F0; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29C1119A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353097f40f2449ca8e926155cfc09c2d@9srv.net> From: rt@anothy.9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:46:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i confess i don't remember whhat jmk's proposal was. however... note brucee said "knowing about" not "running". using the plumber (or something like the one-off system-message-notifier we did for Inferno) the OS doesn't have to possess any special knowledge of *anything* to enable this. in everything you've described, the shell, the OS, rio, other apps, or some combination thereof have to have special-purpose logic built in, and would likely require some knowledge of each other (you'd need to build the "registration service" or whatever). the point of things like not including a terminal driver in the windowing system, or not putting an editor in the shell, wasn't as much about putting complexity "in the right place" (i believe) as not having it there at all. to quote one of the brightest things boyd ever said (here, at least): missing components don't make mistakes, are secure, and don't need testing, documentation, or maintenance. paraphrasing Gordon Bell, who said it even better: The cheapest, fastest, and most reliable components are those that arn't there. we can do a "wall" without kernel hacks, without touching any existing apps, and with a minimum of new code. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:02:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:02:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31228 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:02:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31224 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:02:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:02:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4D1919B88; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 753B019BA4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3FA919B88; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8762819B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98F9Uc01972 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:09:30 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-Reply-To: <901ffe144ad4644ef2996d3de65bae17@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:09:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > hmm. "was clean" is quite different from "is clean". (both are > useful, but they're orthogonal to one another). Actually they're not. Orthogonal means they are not related or dependent. Cleary 'was' is related to 'is' when applied the thing what has the state 'clean'. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:03:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:03:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31260 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:03:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31256 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:03:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:03:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57C9A19BB7; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5763919B3F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:03:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E625A19BA4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE95719BAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98FAbD01988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:10:37 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:10:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 rt@9srv.net wrote: > // After all rio runs from a rc prompt. > > the process, of course, might not be around. see exec in rc(1). True enough, but rc hands off to rio so there is zero problem here. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:28:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:28:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31778 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:28:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31774 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:28:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:28:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3968119A97; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8508119B67; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 473BB19B04; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E908199F6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25976 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h98FRHj27526 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310081527.h98FRHj27526@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:44:45 BST." <20031008154445.L22396@edinburgh.cisco.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:27:17 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Derek Fawcus writes: > So which (natural, I assume) language uses those as quote characters? Russian. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:42:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:42:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32130 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:42:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32126 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:42:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:42:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E14B19A7C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04ACD19ABD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3CEF19A7C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 447C319A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1f658d639bc64be022f293978f1a35cb@9srv.net> From: rt@anothy.9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031008154611.00aec290@pop.monitorbm.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:59:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // ...in practice that I always empty the trash without thinking immediately... i do as well, although i do sometimes forget or batch things. it has saved me some greif a few times, but dump's saved me weeks, at least. the "Trash" is to dump what a real trash can is to a large stoorroom. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:43:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:43:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32148 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:43:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32144 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:43:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:43:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D2C019B2C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C014119AA7; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4778D19B4A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48C2319A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from waakzaamheid (none@glenda.corp.google.com [10.3.18.97]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98FgBgr006765 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:42:12 -0700 Message-ID: <45a1363e50d95898516db9a4a68174a5@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:42:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > rob pike, esq. wrote: >> ... The double meaning of \ in Unix and especially >> Perl REs is regrettable at best. > > And especially in troff macro diversions. I recall > seeing \\\\\\\\ on more than one occasion. That wasn't the double meaning I was referring to, but yes. I meant that \w makes w special but that \* makes * not special. Back to troff: in qed, \ was linear. You added a backslash to quote something. In a macro, you added two backslashes. In a macro calling a macro you added three, etc. Instead of 2^N, you needed N. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:45:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:45:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32271 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:45:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32267 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:45:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:45:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3886D19B97; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E339B19B5C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:45:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C160F19BAC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6E8519B5C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ae1bc29fbeaf5638864b6aa18c30477@9srv.net> From: rt@anothy.9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:42:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // The reason being it takes a lot longer to type than click once. i'm not disagreeing, but i'm no longer willing to take that claim at face value, at least not as a blanket statement. your brain pays more attention to "interesting" tasks than "booring" ones. an interesting study was done WRT mouse-based vs. keyboard-based cursor positioning for text editing. the article has been linked on this list list a few times, but there's too much going on at work right now for me to find it. it was pretty informative. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:47:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:47:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32359 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:47:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32355 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:47:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:47:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 760C619B9C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DD0119BB6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:47:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 197E719B5C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1176719BB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from waakzaamheid (none@glenda.corp.google.com [10.3.18.97]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h98FkNgr007737 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:46:23 -0700 Message-ID: <4b84e0f7df20cdd551c0f8844b315396@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <901ffe144ad4644ef2996d3de65bae17@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:46:23 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > while on the subject of undo/redo, would it be terrible to have a > "Redoall" command? as when clicking repetitively on "Redo" i > invariably click one too many times (whereupon the "Redo" has replaced > itself by "Put") and write the file unintentionally, sometimes with > annoying results. you're in a vale of tears these days, aren't you? try u100 or some such. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 00:51:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 00:51:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32412 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 00:51:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32408 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 00:51:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 00:51:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3258819BCA; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 847DC19BB6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DCFB19ABD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B138419AA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83f6e17cee1108ce171fe1d3b7f01d0b@9srv.net> From: rt@anothy.9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:47:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // ...rc hands off to rio so there is zero problem here. you're missing the point again. right now, the "handing off" process is really simple. what you're suggesting would require rc to be able to communicate with rio in some other channel of communication. you'd have to define the interface and implement it. thus adding complxity to both programs. it also seems like a pre-requisite would be getting some sort of hook between the OS and apps (the thing rc would be "handing off" presumably). ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 02:34:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 02:34:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2415 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 02:34:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2411 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 02:34:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 02:34:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8257219A0D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA70E19B3F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4302B19B46; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4CFE19A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26d5e02ab7f78b72991a858f62d7bdbd@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:02:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // there should be -no- additional programming or commands for a user // to do this. on the part of the user, i assume you mean. otherwise it seem you'd have to hope for it to magically apear. so you must be okay with some programming on the part of , well, programmers, although it's clearly desirable to minimize that, as well. kernel hacking is time consuming and more dificult (at least to test and debug, if not to write) than user-level code. so it seems like that'd be preferable, if we can get what we want there. we'll see that we can in a minute. // it needs to be available to all users, with the owner of the box // where the hardware is resident being in control of the security. the problem here is that there's more then one box involved, with more than one owner. using the example at hand, if i cpu in to a remote server, most (much?) of /dev is owned by me, parts by glenda (and, ahem, none by bootes). so what gives the owner of the cpu server the "right" to write to my devices? clearly, i need to be able to allow the cpu server to, but that's *my* control. so i (or, more likely, something acting on my behalf) needs to present to the cpu server a way to get notices to me. default behavour should always err on the side of too little sharing by default. // since there are at least two filesystems that a cpu server can // run native (ie kfs and fossil) it needs to be outside of those; // ...That leaves only -one- place, the kernel. falacy of false alternatives. "It can't be A so it must be B". The correct initial response to such statements is almost *always* "What about C?" (no pun intended). we've still not explained why this can't be done in user mode ("i've seen it done!"). i come back to the example of the plumber. the user does nothing to start it, the user maintains controll of all the relevant resources, and applications on multiple platforms communicate without knowing anything about each other - just the plumber interface. you seem to be under the impresion (especailly in your last paragraph) that people are arguing that we shouldn't be allowed to share resources. that's not at all what people are saying. we just don't think kernel hacks to allow a privlidged user to get access to a users's namespace - globally, generally - is any sort of good idea. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 02:50:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 02:50:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2636 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 02:50:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2632 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 02:50:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 02:50:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 417F719B95; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEDDB19B70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 866A419B69; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E25919B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:40:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // The final observation about drawterm is that it's one way... again, i must disagree. cd /mnt/term and have a look around. want your local file system? there it is. your /dev is even sorta in there, as well as a "constructed" Plan9-style /dev. the reason this isn't a problem is because, by default, my connections to other machines are not automatically reciprocal. glenda has no access to those files, buecause i've not done anything to present my resources into a namespace glenda can get at. now if i export /mnt/term into /srv/ScrewWithMe, all bets are off. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 02:58:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 02:58:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2770 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 02:58:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2766 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 02:58:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 02:58:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4838719A91; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2910119B47; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD6AD19AC9; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7C6019A40 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] drawterm behaviour. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okay, i'm a bit confused. is this a bug? % cd /mnt/term/dev % lc authcheck cons cursor key snarf authenticate consctl draw mouse sysname authenticator cpunote hostowner null user brahma% cd .. ; lc dev bpf0 ptytc ttyqe bpf1 ptytd ttyqf bpf2 ptyte ttyr0 bpf3 ptytf ttyr1 console ptyu0 ttyr2 cu.Bluetooth-Modem ptyu1 ttyr3 cu.Bluetooth-PDA-Sync ptyu2 ttyr4 cu.modem ptyu3 ttyr5 disk0 ptyu4 ttyr6 disk0s1 ptyu5 ttyr7 [ a bunch more elided ] ptyta ttyqc vn3 ptytb ttyqd zero % my drawterm is a bit old. maybe it's been fixed. both are usefull in different cases; how can i explicitly access one or the other? ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 03:15:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 03:15:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3141 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 03:15:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3137 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 03:15:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 03:15:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F257C19B9E; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49AFB19B75; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:15:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EB3319B69; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C5F719A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d8154149de8f10b0ef1beb40db0f7d5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: <88a44f3d3a458f1355166670212ff726@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:14:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm with rog. All we need is a broadcast service in /srv. Anyone writes into it and everyone reading it sees it. It's basicly consolefs without the device. Call it a chat room if you like. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 03:54:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 03:54:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3988 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 03:54:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3984 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 03:54:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 03:54:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A6C419BAC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1219719BA8; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D56919B4A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DE6B19A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3d8154149de8f10b0ef1beb40db0f7d5@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:52:57 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm with rog. All we need is a broadcast service in /srv. Anyone > writes into it and everyone reading it sees it. It's basicly > consolefs without the device. Call it a chat room if you like. i've written a prototype, basically modifying consolefs to use an 'empty' device and adding some niceties to show who's talking. i'll rewrite into a full-fledged file server serving 'rooms' probably by the end of next week. and will send it here for everybody to use. it's possible that i'll serve a file descriptor somewhere on ucalgary.ca for everybody who cares to mount and have a chat without having to worry about irc clients for plan9 (and restricting it to plan9 users only :), using their sources.cs usernames andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 04:24:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 04:24:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4687 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 04:24:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4683 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 04:24:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 04:24:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A567B19A9B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7377019BA8; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:24:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9AAC19AF3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D34919A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] webls Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:23:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I updated webls. Now if /sys/lib/webls.denied is missing, it is assumed that all accesses are denied. Also, I rooted the regular expressions in the webls.{allowed,denied} files (i.e. webls now sticks a ^ at the front of each expression) so that an expression like '/xyzzy' doesn't accidentally match '/hidden/xyzzy'. Perhaps I should also tack a $ onto the end of the expression. Comments to me. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 06:19:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 06:19:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7070 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 06:19:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7066 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 06:19:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 06:19:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9545519BC0; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E93C319BB6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBB0F19BAF; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0628319B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h98MgX112921 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:42:34 -0400 Received: from 135.214.154.104 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18554.135.214.154.104.1065652954.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] webls From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I updated webls. Now if /sys/lib/webls.denied is missing, it is > assumed that all accesses are denied. Thank you. > Also, I rooted the regular expressions in the webls.{allowed,denied} > files (i.e. webls now sticks a ^ at the front of each expression) so > that an expression like '/xyzzy' doesn't accidentally match > '/hidden/xyzzy'. Perhaps I should also tack a $ onto the end of the > expression. Comments to me. Yes, support for $ would be nice to have. That way webls will fall in line with other tools that support ^ and $ usage. Regards dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 06:58:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 06:58:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7815 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 06:58:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7811 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 06:58:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 06:58:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8764F19B70; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89A1019B43; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:58:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCFE119ABC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C331719B70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:53:42 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) you might think to notify people that the cpu server is going down by having it access devices imported from the terminal, but don't forget that the file server has no such access, and in many ways it's far more serious to have the file server go away. most reasonable solutions to the latter will deal with the former, including some of those suggested so far. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 07:26:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 07:26:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8651 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 07:26:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8647 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 07:26:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 07:26:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA75219B2D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C45A19BB2; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:26:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EA8719A02; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3825919AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:30:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) okay, we all know of VGA hell, but what do people have as VGA heaven? can anyone beat 1600x1200 at 24bpp ? m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 07:41:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 07:41:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8868 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 07:41:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8864 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 07:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 07:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBADD19B04; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F7A419BAF; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B72C919BA5; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 44F4319B04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12360 invoked by uid 991); 8 Oct 2003 22:40:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20031008224029.12359.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to matt@proweb.co.uk message dated "Thu, 09 Oct 2003 00:30:28 +0100." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:40:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > can anyone beat 1600x1200 at 24bpp ? Better have some nice, hinted, scalable fonts! (e.g. Vera Sans Mono, which is free now.) -- Scott (1024x768+glasses) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 07:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 07:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9157 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 07:49:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9153 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 07:49:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 07:49:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 255E119BA5; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFDE319BC4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDFE719BAF; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4A0619B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7e8f13231b0002f43195127da1d3f98d@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-Reply-To: <20031008224029.12359.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:52:35 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i run anti-aliased fonts already & they look lovely From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 07:52:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 07:52:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9206 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 07:52:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9202 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 07:52:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 07:52:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3506D19B5C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3523919BC1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:52:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1586719BBC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C09E619BAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h98MxWu04103; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:59:32 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:59:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > you might think to notify people that the cpu server is going down > by having it access devices imported from the terminal, but > don't forget that the file server has no such access, and in many > ways it's far more serious to have the file server go away. > most reasonable solutions to the latter will deal with the former, > including some of those suggested so far. I have to agree with this. The main reason that I find this sort of fail-over critical is if a process does die, if the file server is still around we have some hope of restarting the job on another set of cpu servers without the user even being aware, other than longer execution times. If the file server dies the namespace is gone so we've no way to ensure the intended namespace, we may not be able to build it up again without user intervention. I find this most critical within the context of what I call 'free run' agents. I envision a point when there will be enough 'public' servers available that processes will be able to run forever (for all intents and purposes), this is most important for example with anonymous remailers, black nets/data havens, etc. In addition it would allow the creation of 'public' search engines that simply were not censorable because they weren't running in any particular place [1]. This of course means there needs to be a mechanism to track restarts and alert the user if they're having too many. [1] My personal belief is that this will be how the first self-aware AI comes about, a pure accident due to programs interacting and trying to survive. We'll get up one morning and all the phones will be ringing ;) -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 07:54:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 07:54:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9218 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 07:54:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9214 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 07:54:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 07:54:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2699B19BCA; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 039DF19BBE; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:54:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E80219BAD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7170F19A2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f041c3329566bda895be365ef13ae1e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20031008224029.12359.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:52:57 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Better have some nice, hinted, scalable fonts! > (e.g. Vera Sans Mono, which is free now.) send them over for conversion if you have .bdf or .ttf. i'll put them on ucalgary.ca's web for everybody to download though ttf's are a bit heavy for today's graphics cards, they'll be fine a generation later -- it's funny how Plan 9 speeds up with each new piece of hardware, while things like Linux and Windows work at the same percieved speed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 08:04:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 08:04:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9443 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 08:04:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9439 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 08:04:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 08:04:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7B9D19BCB; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49A5119BCE; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB8AC19BC4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E236619BAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h990Rp113129; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:27:51 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.68 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <7e8f13231b0002f43195127da1d3f98d@juice.thebigchoice.com> References: <7e8f13231b0002f43195127da1d3f98d@juice.thebigchoice.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cc: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:27:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i run anti-aliased fonts already & they look lovely what fonts? and what screen resolution? thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 08:17:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 08:17:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9797 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 08:17:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9793 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 08:17:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 08:17:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE53019B09; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6258D19BD1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 926A519B09; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFB7119BAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a4432f65eb75f4d542216338b20d9b0@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:16:47 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is a collection of extra fonts for Plan 9, mostly to add extra glyphs that don't exist in the Plan 9 distribution. "freetype/" contains code to convert .ttf fonts to antialiase Plan 9 subfonts. all pages contain screenshots: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/unifont/ http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/efont/ http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/freetype/ and a screenshot (not viewable from Plan 9): http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/freetype/cyber.png From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 08:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 08:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10052 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 08:27:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10048 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 08:27:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 08:27:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DCD419BBD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A843119BD8; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:27:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FE7919BCF; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F1C019BBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d4f2bbf8687505a28502bee18588c9e@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-Reply-To: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:31:27 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I converted XP's Lucida Sans using ttf2sub on Andrey's page http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/freetype/ I had to adjust the line height but font(6) is a dream come true i'm running drawterm atm. AA fonts were a bit slow on a Duron 800 as CPU server but with the XP1700+ they have become usable in Acme too http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/p9-4/screenie.png m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:29:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:29:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13149 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:29:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13145 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:29:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:29:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E40EA19BD6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7999419BB2; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4389219AE3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F18B19BB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52c610577f0eeca28eef8b70c72c20a5@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:28:03 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) We used to run 1850x1440x24 at the labs, as I recall. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:32:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:32:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13340 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:32:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13336 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:32:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:32:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 701C319A7B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3491E19BE9; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67A8119AE3; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D4019BE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49d88ae4feaba4506f44c00cc1ec5fe6@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <353097f40f2449ca8e926155cfc09c2d@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:31:26 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Okay, here are implementations of write and wall in under 100 lines. I haven't used this code heavily but it worked when I last did. You run `postwrite' in its own cpu-server window, which makes you reachable via write or wall by others on that cpu server. # To unbundle, run this file echo postwrite.c sed 's/^X//' >postwrite.c <<'!' X/* X * postwrite - post a pipe that others can write to; X * copy its contents to stdout. X * X * a file server version of this could tell who the writers are. X * it might also be good to pop up a separate small window for each message. X */ X#include X#include enum { Rd, Wr }; int mknmpipe(char *srvname) X{ X int fd, p[2]; X if (pipe(p) < 0) X sysfatal("can't create pipe: %r"); X fd = create(srvname, OWRITE, 0666); X if (fd < 0) X sysfatal("can't create %s: %r", srvname); X fprint(fd, "%d", p[Rd]); X close(fd); X close(p[Rd]); X // fprint(p[Wr], "hello"); X return p[Wr]; X} void main(int argc, char *argv[]) X{ X int n, pipe, errflg = 0; X char srvname[64], buf[256]; X ARGBEGIN { X default: X errflg++; X break; X } ARGEND X if (argc != 0 || errflg) X sysfatal("usage: %s", argv0); X snprint(srvname, sizeof srvname, "/srv/to.%s", getuser()); X if (access(srvname, 0) >= 0) X sysfatal("pipe %s already posted", srvname); X pipe = mknmpipe(srvname); X while ((n = read(pipe, buf, sizeof buf)) > 0) X if (write(1, buf, n) != n) X sysfatal("error writing stdout: %r"); X remove(srvname); X if (n < 0) X sysfatal("error reading %s: %r", srvname); X exits(0); X} ! echo wall sed 's/^X//' >wall <<'!' X#!/bin/rc X# wall word... - write words to all registered users for (f in /srv/to.*) { X b=`{basename $f | sed 's/^to\.//'} X echo -n $b... X write $b $* & # don't wait; pipe could be clogged X sleep 1 X} ! echo write.c sed 's/^X//' >write.c <<'!' X/* X * write - write a line to a user with his notification pipe in /srv X */ X#include X#include void main(int argc, char *argv[]) X{ X int i, pipe, errflg = 0; X char *user; X char srvname[64]; X ARGBEGIN { X default: X errflg++; X break; X } ARGEND X if (argc < 2 || errflg) X sysfatal("usage: %s user word...", argv0); X user = argv[0]; X snprint(srvname, sizeof srvname, "/srv/to.%s", user); X pipe = open(srvname, OWRITE); /* and NOT create, which would fail */ X if (pipe < 0) X sysfatal("%s: no pipe posted for user %s", srvname, user); X fprint(pipe, "%s %.5s: ", getuser(), ctime(time(0))+11); X for (i = 1; i < argc; i++) X if (fprint(pipe, "%s%c", argv[i], (i == argc-1? '\n': ' ')) < 0) X sysfatal("error writing %s: %r", srvname); X exits(0); X} ! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:39:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:39:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13698 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:39:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13694 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:39:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:39:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 25FA519BF6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 329CD19BBB; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:39:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEAE919BE2; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A15EC19BCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a153b2f14b8514ea9f4a1f48fa55896@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-Reply-To: <52c610577f0eeca28eef8b70c72c20a5@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:42:40 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We used to run 1850x1440x24 at the labs, as I recall. which VGA card, that's really why I'm asking From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:40:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:40:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13770 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:40:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13766 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:40:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:40:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FDE619BBB; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A91419BE9; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16C4D19BE4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D4EB19BEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 502363939; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id EC53D3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ultra2.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.11]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32920.199.98.16.11.1065659536.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <9d4f2bbf8687505a28502bee18588c9e@juice.thebigchoice.com> References: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <9d4f2bbf8687505a28502bee18588c9e@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) matt@proweb.co.uk said: > I converted XP's Lucida Sans using ttf2sub on Andrey's page Arial Unicode MS might be a good font to convert - doubt that it can be posted in converted form, but the font is available from ms Also the code2000/code2001 fonts from http://home.att.net/~jameskass/ might be of use. Thanks, Andrey. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:52:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:52:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14323 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:52:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14318 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:52:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:52:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A08019B95; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7582619BE4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:52:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B98319BC0; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C4F719BD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:52:37 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Actually they're not. Orthogonal means they are not related or dependent. > Cleary 'was' is related to 'is' when applied the thing what has the state > 'clean'. I know what is the difference between boyd and jchoate, that is intelligence. Both are sometimes/many times? noisy, but boyd has great intelligence. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:56:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:56:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14521 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:56:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14517 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:56:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:56:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2834519C00; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53AC119BED; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:56:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4311719BBC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40CE719BEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5e2712fdd3ec32fb28a9e44498d50106@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <7a153b2f14b8514ea9f4a1f48fa55896@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:55:28 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Consulting /lib/vgadb, it looks like it was actually 1800x1350x24 or 1800x1440x24 (or maybe x16). This was two or three years ago, I think it was just a common Mach 64 or ATI card. Any supported vga card with at least 220MHz of video bandwidth and enough memory (5MB bytes for x16) should be able to do it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 09:57:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 09:57:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14560 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 09:57:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14556 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:57:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:57:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E96D19BEC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F87419BFA; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94F5219C02; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85AA419BF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d4eddf2bbd97be97d2e53213af15a52@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <32920.199.98.16.11.1065659536.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:56:28 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Arial Unicode MS might be a good font to convert - doubt that it can be > posted in converted form, but the font is available from ms > > Also the code2000/code2001 fonts from http://home.att.net/~jameskass/ > might be of use. > > Thanks, Andrey. > > --Joel Yes, people are on their own when it comes to TrueType fonts. Unless they want to use the Luxi stuff from XFree86 (I distribute those fonts under the XFree86 license from the web pages linked to earlier), they're obliged to obey the license the font comes with, or pay for it. This is the reason why Charles Forsyth never distributed his port of FreeType, which was done earlier than the stuff on my web page. The most complete (meaning having the most UTF-8 glyphs) font that i can find is Cyberbit, which used to be distributed 'free of charge' with Netscape Communicator. Now google links to it have all but disappeared, but you can still get it from their ftp server: ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/communicator/extras/fonts/windows/Cyberbit.ZIP It's a very large ttf file which, when converted with ttf2subf, should suit most Plan 9 polyglots. Just a small addition -- i didn't do ttf2subf and the truetype port, it was Latchezar Ionkov. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 10:03:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 10:03:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14817 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 10:03:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14813 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:03:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:03:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E348519BFD; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE1DF19C02; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98E9C19BFA; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA9.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha9.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAC0819BD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.84]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L1ME5WSWQ08ZLFTM@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:29:21 +1000 Received: from blammo.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1571139C003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:29:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (nbk-9978.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.170]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by blammo.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37A22DC006 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:29:20 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F84ABDA.5080006@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030924 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:29:14 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > okay, we all know of VGA hell, but what do people have as VGA heaven? A card that works with plan9? > can anyone beat 1600x1200 at 24bpp ? Not quite. I use an S3 card and 19" HP91 monitor at: Windows 2000: 1600x1200x16bpp, 75Hz Linux/Xfree: 1600x1200x16bpp, 75Hz Plan9: 1024x768x8bpp, I *think* 56 or 60Hz, with an ugly blob instead of a cursor. Since the power supply here in the civilised world is 50Hz, screen refresh rates of 60Hz are not particularly useful. The resulting 10Hz beat frequency is quite noticable. As an aside, what a lot of 60Hz folk have complained about over the years of 50Hz being "too slow and flickery" for the human eye is more often them watching 50Hz displays on 60Hz power supplies, and noticing the same 10Hz beat. > m Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:ajft@ajft.org Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 10:28:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 10:28:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16168 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 10:28:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16164 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:28:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:28:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 286DF19C02; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16B5219C0F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBBE719C0A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E93DF19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24714 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 01:27:39 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 01:27:39 -0000 Message-ID: <023801c38e04$db6f3e60$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <49d88ae4feaba4506f44c00cc1ec5fe6@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:29:48 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Geoff, you spoil all the fun. I was waiting for screeds and screeds of kernel code that scrummages around in everyones namespace looking for places to write, and trying real hard to only write to each place once. And of course causing a horrible mess to every window running anything but just rc. Anyhow your code is shorter than Jim's speculations. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Collyer" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages > Okay, here are implementations of write and wall in under 100 lines. > I haven't used this code heavily but it worked when I last did. You > run `postwrite' in its own cpu-server window, which makes you > reachable via write or wall by others on that cpu server. etc From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 10:32:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 10:32:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16533 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 10:32:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16525 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:32:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:32:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 239BB19A26; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAE4B19C14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD61819C07; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6346419C01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <832a6c57bb30de122edf49083616c7c4@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:31:52 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > if you are discussing about the safety net property of trash-can, > i should say you don't need it as long as you are backed up by > either worm file system or venti/fossil. you can retrieve it from > /n/dump whenever you want it with specific date. You got a point. No, we don't need such thing. > but you can easily achieve some form of the interface in acme(1). > just type `rm' in tag line, select the file name to delete, execute > the `rm' on the tag line with middle-left mouse chording. No, it's not easy to let the today's students who are too much adapted to windows etc. I experienced it, I'm still trying though. I got a conviction that we can implement mouse left+middle chode to delete or copy a file object in a directory window. I at first worried about it's too easy action to delete it in mistake, that is we have to prepare some safety net for it. This is the reason why I considered trash can. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 10:47:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 10:47:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17672 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 10:47:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17585 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:47:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:47:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5645419C14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AF0D19C1B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:47:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02CD119C14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F13D119A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kYuV006493 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kX4F010690 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kXVP029617 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > but you can easily achieve some form of the interface in acme(1). > > just type `rm' in tag line, select the file name to delete, execute > > the `rm' on the tag line with middle-left mouse chording. > > No, it's not easy to let the today's students who are too much adapted to > windows etc. I experienced it, I'm still trying though. my fingers are too clumsy for chording, however. You need a way to do this for people with large, clumsy fingers. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 10:56:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 10:56:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18070 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 10:56:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18066 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:56:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:56:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E38819BC0; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09AC719BE0; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CF0619C18; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C7DC19A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-Reply-To: <7a153b2f14b8514ea9f4a1f48fa55896@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:54:39 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 8 20:39:52 EDT 2003, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > We used to run 1850x1440x24 at the labs, as I recall. > > which VGA card, that's really why I'm asking As Geoff later pointed out, it's actually 1800x1350; I made it up. I run it on 2 different Viewsonic P815 monitors at work, one with some form of ATI Mach64 and the other with one of the older NVidia cards. The font I use is /lib/font/bit/pelm/unicode.9.font. I'd willingly trade them in for those big Samsung LCDs at 1600x1200, they probably cost less now than the P815s did when they were new. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18945 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:10:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18940 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:10:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:10:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E3A719C21; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 634F819C1C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F62919AFB; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DE91219A72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13495 invoked by uid 991); 9 Oct 2003 02:09:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20031009020914.13494.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) In-reply-to: <32920.199.98.16.11.1065659536.squirrel@wish> References: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <9d4f2bbf8687505a28502bee18588c9e@juice.thebigchoice.com> <32920.199.98.16.11.1065659536.squirrel@wish> Comments: In-reply-to "Joel Salomon" message dated "Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:32:16 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:09:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | Arial Unicode MS might be a good font to convert - doubt that it can be | posted in converted form, but the font is available from ms Not anymore. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:17:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:17:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19325 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:17:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19321 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:17:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:17:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF89E19C31; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC84019C1C; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D0AEA19B5B; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 073E319BAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86153CEC1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:18:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031009021800.GB19220@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] i81x on an LCD Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:18:00 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It appears that I haven't updated from sources in a while. I pulled today and found on reboot that my screen just went black going into graphics mode. I recompiled aux/vga with different versions of i81x.c and both versions after Aug 28 act "funny". I'm pretty sure it has to do with the new code to set refresh rates for a CRT. Comments in the source seem to indicate that some LCD stuff is on the TODO list. I guess that might mean this is a known problem. I don't have time to fix it myself now, though, so I'm posting here. In the meanwhile, I'm just using the Feb 17 version of i81x.c. Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:27:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:27:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19845 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19841 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:27:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:27:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 454C519C28; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FB3419C0A; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:27:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D38F19BB2; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FE4819A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22dbd08b2f13c0bba31e353174c62bfc@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Watanabe 32 dot Japanese fonts Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:26:55 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I announced a few months ago that I removed the 32 dot fonts for Plan 9 from our web page, because it was reported that the base font of Watanabe Fonts might violate copyright of some fonts. I contacted with the original font supplyer, (hitach printing solutions Co. 日立プリンティングソリューションズ株å¼ä¼šç¤¾), and got a negative answer from them. They say as follows: if the original 32dot font data from that company are not used, we can use those fonts. However, we recognize that the first Watanabe Font are (illegally) copied from our original fonts. The 32 dot fonts I used was made by Marc Leisher from freetype Watanabe font. Therefore, we cannot use those fonts. We must be carefull many of free Japanese fonts, which comes with open software, such as Kochi fonts, etc. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:35:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:35:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20204 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:35:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20200 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:35:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:35:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1FB8319C2D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5FC419C15; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D059F19BD1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87AD619B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i81x on an LCD From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20031009021800.GB19220@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:34:57 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I recompiled aux/vga > with different versions of i81x.c and both versions after > Aug 28 act "funny". I'm pretty sure it has to do with > the new code to set refresh rates for a CRT. Comments > in the source seem to indicate that some LCD stuff is on > the TODO list. I guess that might mean this is a known > problem. I don't have time to fix it myself now, though, > so I'm posting here. In the meanwhile, I'm just using > the Feb 17 version of i81x.c. Probably, it was my fault. David Hogan assumed that all the registers are properly set by the BIOS, however, what means all is not so clear to me. I left most of those value untatched. But I have no convinsed it's just enough. Please let me know (personally, I prefer) the values of registes which aux/vga -p <1024x768x8> command reports. The resolution should be replaced by yours. This may help me. Another person is also facing the same problem Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:38:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:38:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20286 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:37:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20271 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:37:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:37:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D79F019BD1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFE2119C22; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 368A819C2F; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6150D19BD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h992Ztgr022554 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:35:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20031009020914.13494.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:35:54 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i like the dell 2000FP screens. good value. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:38:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:38:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20326 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:38:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20312 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:38:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:38:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64D4819C23; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFB1719C34; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2370A19BD1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43D1A19A31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61d24f19a44353057afc614d2d8b6c2b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i81x on an LCD From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wqruioexuaylvqvmcjfghvadsd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:37:54 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wqruioexuaylvqvmcjfghvadsd Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forgot one sentence. Please send me the two cases, one is the result of older driver, and the other is that of new unwork result. Kenji --upas-wqruioexuaylvqvmcjfghvadsd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ([157.16.103.2]) by granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp; Thu Oct 9 11:36:39 JST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by elmo.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.9.3p2+/3.7W-03092514) with ESMTP id LAA12284 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:35:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1FB8319C2D; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5FC419C15; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D059F19BD1; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87AD619B44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] i81x on an LCD From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <20031009021800.GB19220@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:34:57 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I recompiled aux/vga > with different versions of i81x.c and both versions after > Aug 28 act "funny". I'm pretty sure it has to do with > the new code to set refresh rates for a CRT. Comments > in the source seem to indicate that some LCD stuff is on > the TODO list. I guess that might mean this is a known > problem. I don't have time to fix it myself now, though, > so I'm posting here. In the meanwhile, I'm just using > the Feb 17 version of i81x.c. Probably, it was my fault. David Hogan assumed that all the registers are properly set by the BIOS, however, what means all is not so clear to me. I left most of those value untatched. But I have no convinsed it's just enough. Please let me know (personally, I prefer) the values of registes which aux/vga -p <1024x768x8> command reports. The resolution should be replaced by yours. This may help me. Another person is also facing the same problem Kenji --upas-wqruioexuaylvqvmcjfghvadsd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 11:43:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 11:43:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20647 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 11:43:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20640 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 11:43:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 11:43:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7777819C34; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E4DB19C38; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5A9E19C33; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C52DE19C35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23115 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 02:42:31 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 02:42:31 -0000 Message-ID: <02b001c38e0f$50a74920$c901a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <55103.135.214.42.68.1065659271.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <9d4f2bbf8687505a28502bee18588c9e@juice.thebigchoice.com> <32920.199.98.16.11.1065659536.squirrel@wish> <20031009020914.13494.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:44:48 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it is in the Microsoft Project 2000 Resource Kit, and it is 23Mb. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Schwartz" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) > | Arial Unicode MS might be a good font to convert - doubt that it can be > | posted in converted form, but the font is available from ms > > Not anymore. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 12:17:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 12:17:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22623 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 12:17:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22619 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 12:17:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 12:17:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA51519B44; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA83719C15; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4E0D19B44; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4C9E19BDA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:16:19 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What video card do you drive the 2000fp with? How do you feel that it compares with the sgi 1600sw? (Physically, the 2000fp's specs make it appear to be much heavier and deeper.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 12:27:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 12:27:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23179 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 12:27:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23165 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 12:26:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 12:26:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED10D19BE2; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1233219C15; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 558F919BD4; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A833719C04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id C2E023939; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 88D323937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uive9kf.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.38.143]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1208.165.247.38.143.1065669523.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: "Joel Salomon" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ron minnich said: > my fingers are too clumsy for chording, however. You need a way to do > this for people with large, clumsy fingers. get a better mouse ;-) Actually the mice on the sun workstations here at cooper would be quite nice for chording - nice wide mouse with the buttons spaced a bit from each other. There may be hope. (No, the sunstations are not running p9, so all the chording capability is wasted on *n!x + X. ) --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 13:05:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 13:05:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25127 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 13:05:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25122 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 13:05:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 13:05:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C766019C32; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5A6F19C39; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97EB019BF6; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4D2E19C2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a5bd66a36dac89563fb7faf5be96e9f@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:04:05 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > What video card do you drive the 2000fp with? > > How do you feel that it compares with the sgi 1600sw? (Physically, > the 2000fp's specs make it appear to be much heavier and deeper.) here's the SGI: http://homepage.usask.ca/~aam396/work.jpg a truly beautiful monitor. in all aspects... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 13:32:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 13:32:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26985 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 13:32:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26980 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 13:32:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 13:32:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 50B8219C01; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C87619C45; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CBEA19A2A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F54819BC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AE5F7CEA6; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:33:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031009043303.GB3466@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] Ethernet link status Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:33:03 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I want to make ip/ipconfig run only if my ethernet is plugged in. I use a laptop, and I spend about equal time with and without the ethernet plugged in. So I would like to have something like this in termrc.local: if (grep -s 'link: 1' /net/ether0/0/ifstats) ip/ipconfig It was trivial for me to hack this together for the 82557 (I love Plan 9 device drivers). But I think it would be more generally useful, so I'd like to do it in a way that would make it worth including in the distribution. To that end, I have a few questions. First, should it be in stats, ifstats, or a new file like addr? What is the real difference between stats and ifstats? If I read the manual aright, stats information is not specific to the network medium while ifstats is. Ether seems to be the only medium implemented, though, so I have nothing else to compare to. Is link up/down generic enough for stats? What about T1 interfaces' serial interface up/line protocol down stuff? Should it be more generic, or should I put it in ifstats, or do we care? For now, I put it in ifstats because it made it easier to get the status when it was asked for. Second, since stats and ifstats are in the connection directories, I have to open /net/ether0/clone in order to make sure I can get the status in termrc.local. This seems like needless pain. Why are the stats files in the connection directories, anyway? Third, and most important, are other people willing to do this kind of thing for the other ethernet adapters? Here's a diff for ether82557.c: diff ether82557.c.orig ether82557.c 38a39 > Gstatus = 0x1D, /* General status register */ 405c406 < int i, len, phyaddr; --- > int i, len, phyaddr, link; 458a460,462 > > link = csr8r(ctlr, Gstatus) & 0x1; > len += snprint(p+len, READSTR-len, "link: %d\n", link); Thanks, Micah From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 13:40:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 13:40:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27416 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 13:40:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27408 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 13:40:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 13:40:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 656A419C2E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC92D19BC8; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 799AE19C38; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D158C19BC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <04f174df79eebe235bcf41eed834c385@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ethernet link status In-Reply-To: <20031009043303.GB3466@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:38:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The stats files in connection directories was stupid, because I originally had a simple structure and that was the easy place to put the stats files. I really should move it up but never get around to it... In general, stats is meant for generic info common to all types of interfaces and ifstats for interface specific stuff. I would say that link is generic; even the 802.11's have something you might construe as link (i.e. a base station to talk to). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 13:59:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 13:59:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28314 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 13:59:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28306 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 13:59:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 13:59:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2077919A72; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 840AF19BF6; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:59:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3181E19C39; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE59319BC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sdgm.net ([66.108.164.142]) by brahma; Thu Oct 9 00:58:37 EDT 2003 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--678512711 From: Dan Cross To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <3DC2CA21-FA15-11D7-AF9F-000A95EA6DE8@sdgm.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] writefs. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:58:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --Apple-Mail-3--678512711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I wrote this a long time ago; it's imperfect, and full of bugs, I'm sure. It crashes fairly often, too, but seems to work for simple things. Conceptually, it's like what Geoff posted, only implemented as a filesystem instead of just a simple file descriptor in /srv. The idea is that it could thus be run on a central CPU server and imported all over the place, effectively giving network write service for free. If someone wants to clean it up and mail it back to me, feel free; I never finished writing the ACL stuff (I'd probably do it differently now, anyway). Maybe in a few weeks I'll have some time to clean it up some more and we can stick it in the distribution or something. To run it, compile writefs.c and put the binary somewhere. Run it on a CPU server when it starts up. Copy writelstn and write somewhere, and modify them as needed (for instance, to import /mnt/writefs from the CPU server if needed). Run writelstn in a window somewhere to receive messages (I usually run it in a `win' under acme) and run `write user' to send messages to others. - Dan C. --Apple-Mail-3--678512711 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=write Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0755; name="write" #!/bin/rc rfork n mount /srv/writefs /mnt/write exec cat > /mnt/write/$1 --Apple-Mail-3--678512711 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=writefs.c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name="writefs.c" /* * I miss the Unix write(1) command, but I think * this is a better way to do it. */ #include #include #include #include #include <9p.h> #define min(A, B) ((A) < (B) ? (A) : (B)) #define STREQ(A, B) ((A)[0] == (B)[0] && strcmp(A, B) == 0) // Messages are consumed by readers either when they're // posted, or when the reader sends a Tread message. typedef struct Message Message; struct Message { Ref; char *msg; }; typedef struct Reader Reader; struct Reader { Reader *next; Channel *mq; Req *req; char *name; }; typedef struct Acl Acl; struct Acl { char **acl; int acllen; }; typedef struct Station Station; struct Station { Reader *readers; Acl *rallow; Acl *rdisallow; Acl *wallow; Acl *wdisallow; Acl *callow; Acl *cdisallow; }; static void *ezmalloc(ulong); static void *estrdup(char *); static void consume(Reader *); static void produce(Message *, Reader *); void wfsopen(Req *); void wfsread(Req *); void wfswrite(Req *); enum { POOLINCR = 20 }; Srv serv = { .open = wfsopen, .read = wfsread, .write= wfswrite }; Tree *tp; static void * ezmalloc(ulong size) { void *p; p = malloc(size); if (p == nil) sysfatal("malloc %lud bytes: %r\n", size); memset(p, 0, size); return(p); } static char * estrdup(char *str) { char *p; p = strdup(str); if (p == nil) sysfatal("estrdup: malloc failed: %r\n"); return(p); } static void produce(Message *mp, Reader *readers) { Reader *rp; for (rp = readers; rp != nil; rp = rp->next) incref(mp); for (rp = readers; rp != nil; rp = rp->next) sendp(rp->mq, mp); } void consume(void *reader) { Reader *rp; Message *mp; Req *req; long len; rp = reader; for ( ; ; ) { req = rp->req; if (req == nil) { yield(); continue; } mp = recvp(rp->mq); if (mp == nil) continue; len = min(strlen(mp->msg), req->ifcall.count); memcpy(req->ofcall.data, mp->msg, len); req->ofcall.count = len; if (decref(mp) == 0) free(mp); rp->req = nil; respond(req, nil); } threadexits(0); } Reader * addreader(File *file, char *user) { Station *sp; Reader *rp, *pp, *np; sp = file->aux; for (pp = nil, rp = sp->readers; rp != nil && strcmp(rp->name, user) < 0; pp = rp, rp = rp->next) ; if (rp != nil && STREQ(rp->name, user)) return(rp); np = ezmalloc(sizeof(*rp)); np->name = estrdup(user); np->req = nil; np->mq = chancreate(sizeof(Message *), 128); np->next = rp; if (pp == nil) { // At the beginning or empty. sp->readers = np; } else { pp->next = np; } proccreate(consume, np, 8192); return(np); } /* * Add ACL testing code. */ void wfsopen(Req *req) { if (!STREQ(req->fid->file->name, "clone") && !(req->fid->file->mode & DMDIR) && (req->ifcall.mode == OREAD) || req->ifcall.mode == ORDWR) addreader(req->fid->file, req->fid->uid); respond(req, nil); } void wfsread(Req *req) { File *file; Fid *fid; char *uid; Station *sp; Reader *rp; uid = req->fid->uid; file = req->fid->file; if (file == nil) sysfatal("fid->file == nil?"); if (STREQ(file->name, "clone")) { if (req->ifcall.offset > 0) { req->ofcall.count = 0; respond(req, nil); return; } file = createfile(tp->root, uid, uid, 0622, ezmalloc(sizeof(*sp))); if (file == nil) { respond(req, "user already exists"); return; } strcpy(req->ofcall.data, uid); req->ofcall.count = strlen(uid); respond(req, nil); return; } sp = file->aux; if (sp != nil) for (rp = sp->readers; rp != nil; rp = rp->next) if (STREQ(uid, rp->name)) { if (rp->req != nil) respond(rp->req, nil); rp->req = req; } } void wfswrite(Req *req) { Station *sp; Reader *rp; Message *mp; Fid *fid; int len; char date[32]; fid = req->fid; sp = fid->file->aux; if (sp->readers == nil) { respond(req, "no listeners"); return; } snprint(date, sizeof date, "%lld", (vlong)time(nil)); len = strlen(date) + 1 + strlen(fid->uid) + 1 + strlen(fid->file->name) + 1 + req->ifcall.count + 1; mp = ezmalloc(sizeof(*mp) + len); mp->msg = (char *)mp + sizeof(*mp); snprint(mp->msg, len, "%s:%s:%s:%.*s", date, fid->uid, fid->file->name, req->ifcall.count, req->ifcall.data); req->ofcall.count = req->ifcall.count; produce(mp, sp->readers); respond(req, nil); } void threadmain(int, char *[]) { File *f; char *user; rfork(RFNOTEG); user = getuser(); if (user == nil) user = "unknown"; tp = alloctree(user, user, DMDIR | 0664, nil); serv.tree = tp; f = createfile(tp->root, "clone", user, 0666, nil); if (f == nil) sysfatal("fcreate clone"); threadpostmountsrv(&serv, "writefs", "/mnt/write", MREPL); exits(0); } --Apple-Mail-3--678512711 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=writelstn Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0755; name="writelstn" #!/bin/rc rfork n mount /srv/writefs /mnt/write cat /mnt/write/clone > /dev/null >[2=1] exec awk -F: '{ time = $1 from = $2 to = $3 msg = $0 sub(/^[^:]*:[^:]*:[^:]*:/, "", msg) print from ": " msg }' /mnt/write/$user --Apple-Mail-3--678512711-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 14:30:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 14:30:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29867 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 14:30:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29863 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 14:30:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 14:30:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA1EC19AFF; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36D3319C4B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:30:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE74819C22; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDC8C19BD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:29:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-122-68-183.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.122.68.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h995Td9w011601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:29:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] fonts (was: screen res, what's your maximum?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9C14E870-FA19-11D7-B395-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:29:53 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) it's all described in vgadb. i like it as well as the SGI. i like how cheap it is, too. i don't think it's significantly bigger physically. heavier? who knows? who cares? > What video card do you drive the 2000fp with? > > How do you feel that it compares with the sgi 1600sw? (Physically, > the 2000fp's specs make it appear to be much heavier and deeper.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 17:26:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 17:26:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6575 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 17:26:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6571 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 17:26:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 17:26:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 067AF19B5B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96BA019BD1; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FC4619B5B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EACF119B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6787ab63a7049772fdad89111afe6658@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:24:24 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > can anyone beat 1600x1200 at 24bpp ? 1600x1200 greyscale - I find text is sharper & easier to read when there's only one dot per pixel (what's the right terminology?) instead of three. I use an elderly ATI xpert@work, and /lib/font/bit/pelm/unicode.9.font. My VGA heaven would be a big greyscale LCD screen - do they exist? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 17:47:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 17:47:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7611 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 17:47:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7603 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 17:47:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 17:47:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5402E199FB; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48AE619BC7; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:47:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D816F19B3F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F350C19AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 04:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A7WOv-0003Z3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:44:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <2vidnbnNi9JlfhmiU-KYgw@comcast.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <45a1363e50d95898516db9a4a68174a5@google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:42:38 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) rob pike, esq. wrote: > Back to troff: in qed, \ was linear. You added a > backslash to quote something. In a macro, you > added two backslashes. In a macro calling a > macro you added three, etc. Instead of 2^N, > you needed N. I also forgot about the terminal driver, which in some incarnations defaulted to \ as an escape character, necessitating typing \\ to enter each one of those \s. As I recall, Software Tools used @ for all its escape characters. Experience seems to suggest that using the same character as escape at multiple nested levels of processing is not a good idea ("sucks" is the technical term). Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 18:13:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 18:13:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8768 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 18:13:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8764 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 18:13:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 18:13:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB0E219BB9; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7CB419BE2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:13:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D915419BCB; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CE0CB19BC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27133 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 09:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 09:11:56 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h999BtL05646; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:11:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <235f188c32d6eaa3e5180c5c72e8b485@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:11:43 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 8 22:40:35 JST 2003, Jim Choate wrote: > > > rio may be graphical it isn't iconic > > No, Plan 9 users can read. > It is often true that a picture is worth a thousand words. letters are the most useful icons ever invented, imho. i agree that `x' mark on web browsers is more space saving than `Stop', though. P.S. i'm always fsck'd up when i point an icon which i can't identify its function and wait a stupid balloon to appear. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 18:20:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 18:20:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8959 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 18:20:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8951 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 18:20:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 18:20:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C68319BF6; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A574819BB6; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1109219BD2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 903CF19B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9b142a6f9735566373de4e125f1beb2c@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <2vidnbnNi9JlfhmiU-KYgw@comcast.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:18:44 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I also forgot about the terminal driver, which in some > incarnations defaulted to \ as an escape character, My first experience of Unix (circa 1976) was on an uppercase-only terminal. The driver would display lowercase characters as uppercase, and uppercase characters escaped with a backslash; keyboard input was the inverse of this. So it was a common mistake to type something like this in a C program PRINTF("\HELLO, WORLD\N"): which would result in "Hello, worldN" and no newline. Exercise for the reader: how many backslashes are required in the ed 's' command to correct the error? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 18:37:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 18:37:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9606 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 18:37:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9597 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 18:37:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 18:37:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C87A519C40; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CFAB19C7C; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2274019C57; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F02EF19C70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <320ead028c67e8180c6a2fb899c8d9ac@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <235f188c32d6eaa3e5180c5c72e8b485@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:36:35 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> It is often true that a picture is worth a thousand words. Which picture describes /rc/bin/termrc ? :-) sorry to add noise, couldn't resist. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 20:13:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 20:13:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12718 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 20:13:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12714 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 20:13:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 20:13:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B236319AF2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00D8919BC9; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:13:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C84219BB3; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DC2319AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26c6c785a05503ed7ad599c401503588@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] screen res, what's your maximum? In-Reply-To: <5e2712fdd3ec32fb28a9e44498d50106@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:09:37 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) yup, all the terminals in the flag room (the lab geoff and i were in) were 1800x1350x24 @ (i think) 72 or 75 Mhz. except the one plus generally sat at, becuase of his vision. but then, he used variable-width fonts in his terminal windows, which is just weird. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 20:26:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 20:26:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13072 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 20:26:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13068 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 20:26:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 20:26:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B304919B75; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD90219BC8; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:26:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EA2319B2D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from testbsd.asuch.cas.cz (testbsd.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 377F619AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by testbsd.asuch.cas.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BF5450D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:25:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from testbsd.asuch.cas.cz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (testbsd.asuch.cas.cz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20973-05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:25:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from XMAIL.asuch.cas.cz (clusterb.asuch.cas.cz [147.231.136.17]) by testbsd.asuch.cas.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9A84176 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:25:03 +0200 (CEST) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: gcc install help needed Thread-Index: AcOOV/ri9JE0mBU3TBekP/Vh0YJd3Q== From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at asuch.cas.cz Subject: [9fans] gcc install help needed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:25:02 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Folks! =A0 Could someone lead my hand through the correct install of gcc-3.0 port? I obvoiously did something wrong ... I can compile C, but not C++ =A0 =A0 Please, HELP! ++pac. =A0 Peter A. Cejchan Lab of Paleobiology and Paleoecology http://www.gli.cas.cz/home/cejchan =A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Anonymous on the Web. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 =A0 --- Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.522 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 320 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 29. 9. 2003 =20 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 23:11:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 23:11:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17368 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 23:11:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17364 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 23:11:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 23:11:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73FEA19BAD; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE2E419BCE; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB3BD19A21; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A547719B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99E9NaK009351 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:09:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99E9LFx017991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:09:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id h99E9Lt23564 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:09:21 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200310091409.h99E9Lt23564@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:18:43 -0400." <1208.165.247.38.143.1065669523.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> References: <1208.165.247.38.143.1065669523.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:09:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Actually the mice on the sun workstations here at cooper would be quite > nice for chording - nice wide mouse with the buttons spaced a bit from > each other. There may be hope. > > (No, the sunstations are not running p9, so all the chording capability is > wasted on *n!x + X. ) just to add some noise: Well, I have a sun on my desk too -- and use chording a lot (wily, 9term, drawterm) Actually, I was quite amazed when, some years ago, I was forced to notice that I had chording to cut/paste really wired into my fingers because without thinking I tried to use a chord in an application that did not support it (exmh, I think it was). Axel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 23:21:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 23:21:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17615 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 23:21:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17611 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 23:21:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 23:21:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E80219BF4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8B4419BFD; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1621719BF3; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail505.nifty.com (mail505.nifty.com [202.248.37.213]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0E8F19BFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (eatkyo273227.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp [219.97.40.227])by mail505.nifty.com with ESMTP id h99EK7Lc004333 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:20:07 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] Watanabe 32 dot Japanese fonts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Moroo Jun To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <22dbd08b2f13c0bba31e353174c62bfc@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:20:09 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 2003.10.09, at 11:26, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > I announced a few months ago that I removed the 32 dot fonts for Plan 9 > from our web page, because it was reported that the base font of > Watanabe Fonts might violate copyright of some fonts. How about using "mikachan font"? I tried it. It works fine and cute. mikachanfont http://mikachan-font.com/index2.html From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 9 23:31:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 9 23:31:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17902 invoked by uid 1020); 9 Oct 2003 23:31:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17898 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 23:31:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 23:31:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D49C219C10; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCA1719ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:31:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E7DB19ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99FCA19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h99EOJef014010 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:24:23 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h99EOFW8014009 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:24:15 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20031009162413.Q10134@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] U9FS Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:24:14 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) There have been a few minor changes to u9fs posted here, do I have to search for them, or have they been published on sources? Can someone please point me to the most up to date source? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:00:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:00:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18703 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:00:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18699 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:00:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:00:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FE2519ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 989E119ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:00:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39F7F19ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FB3519BFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18d9029a4ccc862a702c4694b5e6c219@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <9b142a6f9735566373de4e125f1beb2c@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:01:50 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Exercise for the reader: how many backslashes are required > in the ed 's' command to correct the error? erm, 5? (or 6, depending on the pattern used) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:05:33 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:05:33 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18861 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18857 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:05:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F8C219C15; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28DA819C13; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B7EE19AB2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B35519C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3d8154149de8f10b0ef1beb40db0f7d5@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:07:12 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm with rog. All we need is a broadcast service in /srv. Anyone > writes into it and everyone reading it sees it. It's basicly > consolefs without the device. Call it a chat room if you like. problem is, that doesn't address the problem of fileservers going away. but i guess fileservers should be much more stable than cpu servers (less chance of someone like me killing it with a dodgy job), and perhaps a warning mail message is more appropriate in this case. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:11:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:11:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19061 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:11:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19057 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:11:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:11:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E556A19C13; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7178619C1B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5AB6D19A84; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C7F519C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cmtogrnyzrqgqgeribbcnrhqtv" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:10:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cmtogrnyzrqgqgeribbcnrhqtv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that file servers (fossil) just run on cpu servers, it does. You just have to import the service from the file server. The file server will have to offer it via exportfs but that's no big. --upas-cmtogrnyzrqgqgeribbcnrhqtv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 11:05:48 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 11:05:45 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D32419C18; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50DB519C05; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B7EE19AB2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B35519C1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3d8154149de8f10b0ef1beb40db0f7d5@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:07:12 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm with rog. All we need is a broadcast service in /srv. Anyone > writes into it and everyone reading it sees it. It's basicly > consolefs without the device. Call it a chat room if you like. problem is, that doesn't address the problem of fileservers going away. but i guess fileservers should be much more stable than cpu servers (less chance of someone like me killing it with a dodgy job), and perhaps a warning mail message is more appropriate in this case. --upas-cmtogrnyzrqgqgeribbcnrhqtv-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:17:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:17:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19139 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:17:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19135 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:17:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:17:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4554719C05; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB98A19AF3; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EC6E19A14; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D34919A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGRuV000574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:29 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGQge017641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGQVP017680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:26 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] pull Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've done some looking around but it's not clear how I use 'pull' to a fossil. The basic command gets lots of kfs errors, since there is no kfs. Is this the usual pilot error on my part or is it just not ready yet? thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:24:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:24:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19227 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19223 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:24:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:24:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8943819C36; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A186719C30; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:24:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15A1119C2E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CBF719AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <403d6f1f1c645461d13d6f9dec16e023@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pull From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-cdtzfssxervogepwjsesgmejfj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:23:06 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-cdtzfssxervogepwjsesgmejfj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We use this script (in our /rc/bin/pull). The magic I mention is whatever you have to do to convince your fossil to allow wstats and ignore permissions for the changes made while pulling. We use the allow command we added to fossil, but you may have to import a connection that has been created to allow such things. #!/bin/rc rfork ne *** ADD HERE YOUR MAGIC to put fossil into allow mode opt=() clean=no while(! ~ $#* 0 && ~ $1 -*){ if (~ $1 -C) clean=yes if not opt=($opt $1) shift } if(~ $1 --) shift replica/pull -v $opt /dist/replica/network $* *** ADD HERE YOUR MAGIC to put fossil out off allow mode exit '' --upas-cdtzfssxervogepwjsesgmejfj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Oct 9 17:17:36 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3A4419A14; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB98A19AF3; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EC6E19A14; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D34919A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGRuV000574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:29 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGQge017641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h99FGQVP017680 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:26 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] pull Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:16:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've done some looking around but it's not clear how I use 'pull' to a fossil. The basic command gets lots of kfs errors, since there is no kfs. Is this the usual pilot error on my part or is it just not ready yet? thanks ron --upas-cdtzfssxervogepwjsesgmejfj-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 00:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 00:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19503 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 00:34:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19499 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:34:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:34:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1DA4199F0; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D11E7199F0; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:34:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C93419BE4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8BDD19A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pull From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:32:52 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've done some looking around but it's not clear how I use 'pull' to a > fossil. The basic command gets lots of kfs errors, since there is no kfs. > > Is this the usual pilot error on my part or is it just not ready yet? > > thanks > > ron I love the 'history' comand! here are the changes I've made to do pulls on fossil: plan9-2% history -D /dist/replica/network Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /dist/replica/network 466 [bootes] Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network 466 [bootes] /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network:13,15 c /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network:13,15 < fn clientmount { 9fs boot } < c=/n/boot/dist/replica < clientroot=/n/boot --- > fn clientmount { 9fs kfs } > c=/n/kfs/dist/replica > clientroot=/n/kfs Oct 24 11:43:35 MDT 2002 /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network 463 [bootes] plan9-2% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 01:28:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 01:28:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20760 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 01:28:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20756 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 01:28:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 01:28:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8148919A23; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C637C19B6F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE4EB19ACA; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C838619ABD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a20e9f31043ea7c6d2b6b0214a927da@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kernel typo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:26:34 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/mouse.c:310 c /sys/src/9/pc/mouse.c:310 < strncmp(mouseport, cb->f[1], sizeof(mouseport)-1); --- > strncpy(mouseport, cb->f[1], sizeof(mouseport)-1); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 01:33:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 01:33:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20855 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 01:33:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20851 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 01:33:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 01:33:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 363E219AC5; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96C9719B05; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:33:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C96419B6F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B6DA19ACA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Richard Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] another kernel typo Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:31:29 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/devpccard.c:1371,1372 c /sys/src/9/pc/devpccard.c:1371,1372 < "\tconfiguration[%ld] irqs %.4uX; vpp %d, %d; %s\n", < n, ct->irqs, ct->vpp1, ct->vpp2, --- > "\tconfiguration[%d] irqs %.4uX; vpp %d, %d; %s\n", > i, ct->irqs, ct->vpp1, ct->vpp2, /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/devpccard.c:1377 c /sys/src/9/pc/devpccard.c:1377 < i, ct->io[j].start, ct->io[j].len); --- > j, ct->io[j].start, ct->io[j].len); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 01:43:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 01:43:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21065 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 01:43:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21061 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 01:43:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 01:43:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D91319AED; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30B1D19B79; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C55619B75; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9415B19B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18d4e7dde0bdb05339c40ce07d7d68c5@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another kernel typo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:41:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thsnks for both changes From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 01:48:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 01:48:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21181 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 01:48:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21177 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 01:48:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 01:48:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43D0019BD1; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE1E19BCF; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3B3719BC4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0CE719B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ifglqribfwfwgauxuzwxflupon" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:46:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ifglqribfwfwgauxuzwxflupon Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Via 9fans since the direct route doesn't work. Mailer broken? --upas-ifglqribfwfwgauxuzwxflupon Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:42:06 -0400 From: /dev/null To: presotto Subject: permanent failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vmxrgpihbhmykmfteojhoxjogy" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vmxrgpihbhmykmfteojhoxjogy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your request ``mail /net.alt/tcp!hamnavoe.demon.co.uk miller '' failed (code smtp 709239: Permanent Failure). The symptom was: Thu Oct 9 12:42:06 EDT 2003 connect to /net.alt/tcp!hamnavoe.demon.co.uk: 550 relay not permitted --upas-vmxrgpihbhmykmfteojhoxjogy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:41:52 -0400 From: David Presotto To: miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] another kernel typo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thsnks for both changes --upas-vmxrgpihbhmykmfteojhoxjogy-- --upas-ifglqribfwfwgauxuzwxflupon-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 01:54:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 01:54:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21298 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 01:54:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21293 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 01:54:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 01:54:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E54A19C0F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7562119C05; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:54:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8906619BF6; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 452A819BCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5a8c7884d8b1d88c52a4f0ca66fcd86f@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:52:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Via 9fans since the direct route doesn't work. Mailer broken? Actually, I've shut down the demon address due to excess of spam. For my real address, s/hamnavoe.demon.co.uk/hamnavoe.com/ -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 02:34:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 02:34:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22107 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22103 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 02:34:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5560F19A23; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D478319BF4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D00719B43; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE5B919BCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <4b84e0f7df20cdd551c0f8844b315396@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:35:55 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > you're in a vale of tears these days, aren't you? story of my life :-) or should that be :-( ? actually they're just things that've niggled for years but without enough incentive to mention them or change them... my vale of tears at the moment is more to do with the fact that some 9fans messages are taking days and days to get through (i still haven't seen the original "some of you guys..." post yet, for example, or my original post in this thread). if it's happening for 9fans, god knows how much other stuff has been lost in the pipeline. unreliable email is a frustrating thing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 03:34:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 03:34:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23574 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 03:34:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23570 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 03:34:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 03:34:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 044F619B91; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F0DB19C1D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E34D819BF4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2392919BE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <49d88ae4feaba4506f44c00cc1ec5fe6@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:36:36 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Okay, here are implementations of write and wall in under 100 lines. couple of potential problems: a) the pipes don't go away when you log out; maybe ORCLOSE would be a good flag to add to the create. b) anyone can pretend to be anyone else, or deny access to anyone else. i'd think that b) could be solved quite simply by doing a little 9p server and using authentication, but auth(2) doesn't seem to explain server-side authentication overly much (auth_rpc gets a mention, but that's all), and... /sys/src/cmd/fossil/9auth.c (the only 9p code i could think of that does auth) seems a little more complicated than i was after. maybe i've missed something and perhaps lib9p can handle authentication automatically? (might be nice) PS. nemo: http://www.vitanuova.com/test/termrc.gif only 368 words though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 05:35:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 05:35:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26469 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 05:35:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26465 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 05:35:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 05:35:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DC5619C20; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF78219C33; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:35:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CB0C19C23; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB00719C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-icdnfhokikgpfenppxovtwxvie" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:37:43 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-icdnfhokikgpfenppxovtwxvie Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit data glove? --upas-icdnfhokikgpfenppxovtwxvie Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1A7X3c-0007X2-D6; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:51:42 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A7X3c-0007X2-D6; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:26:04 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE73419C19; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B5A419C14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:47:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02CD119C14; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F13D119A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kYuV006493 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kX4F010690 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h991kXVP029617 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:46:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > > but you can easily achieve some form of the interface in acme(1). > > just type `rm' in tag line, select the file name to delete, execute > > the `rm' on the tag line with middle-left mouse chording. > > No, it's not easy to let the today's students who are too much adapted to > windows etc. I experienced it, I'm still trying though. my fingers are too clumsy for chording, however. You need a way to do this for people with large, clumsy fingers. ron --upas-icdnfhokikgpfenppxovtwxvie-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 07:03:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 07:03:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28258 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 07:03:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28254 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 07:03:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 07:03:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CF3119B2E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8436819C44; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:03:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B46419B2E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3F3419BBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65f74e497fffd2bb959aa393ffaa0716@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:00:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) y'know, a friend of mine once showed me a Nintendo Power Glove hacked up to a DOS PC (i think; maybe Win95) to act as a mouse. it was pretty unusable, but looked appropriatly like something out of a mid-80's vision of computers in 2003. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 07:18:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 07:18:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28600 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 07:18:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28596 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 07:18:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 07:18:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A609119BE7; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD59D19C49; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E860319C47; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0AFE19C4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging In-Reply-To: <235f188c32d6eaa3e5180c5c72e8b485@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:16:38 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>i'm always fsck'd up when i point an icon which i can't >>identify its function and wait a stupid balloon to appear. the most amusing example of that i've seen recently was the Redhat button with some text in it that when hovered over produced the same text in a balloon. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 07:33:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 07:33:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28957 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 07:33:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28953 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 07:33:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 07:33:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 102CF19AD3; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FCFA19C3E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A72EB19B52; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA40119BBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 'wall' messages From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:32:12 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) write, postwrite and wall are clearly just a first cut, analogous to write and wall on Unix. As to the cited problems: a) I added ORCLOSE and the /srv file went away much too soon, perhaps on the first close rather than the last one. I've had trouble with this before and haven't sorted it out. b) Right, a file server could provide reliable identification of users. I played a little with Dan's writefs last night and fixed a bug or two. Since then, it's been okay. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 09:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 09:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32679 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 09:27:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32675 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 09:27:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 09:27:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8682199D5; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECAAB19C50; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:27:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F89919C5A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD2F8199DE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73afeaa26bd3f166bde71fb190f73ea3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dennis Ritchie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sam command language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:26:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > My first experience of Unix (circa 1976) was on an uppercase-only > terminal. The driver would display lowercase characters as > uppercase, and uppercase characters escaped with a backslash; >keyboard input was the inverse of this. So it was a common >mistake to type something like this in a C program > PRINTF("\HELLO, WORLD\N"): > which would result in "Hello, worldN" and no newline. > Exercise for the reader: how many backslashes are required > in the ed 's' command to correct the error? Years ago I ran into a situation with a script (probably involving all of the shell, ed, and troff) in which N½ \ were needed. N was too few, N+1 were too many. Dennis From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 09:35:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 09:35:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 610 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 09:35:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 606 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 09:35:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 09:35:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBC97199F0; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA55919C5D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:35:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A8BC19B6F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94BA019C5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <344e0ec7b586b08b5df68b7b3843b1dd@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 9nfs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:38:52 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm interested in building a FreeBSD to boot diskless and was reading nfsserver(8) Ending up in the source code and I noticed snippets of debugging cruft hanging around such as the fprints and commented out alarms in /sys/src/cmd/9nfs/unixnames.c shown below. Before I start the long journey does anyone have any insight into how well plan9 behaves as an nfs server. m ============= free(m); break; } fprint(2, "looking for %lux\n", clientip); if(getdom(clientip, dom, sizeof dom)<0){ clog("auth: unknown ip address"); return nil; } fprint(2, "dom is %s\n", dom); for(r=idhead; r; r=r->next){ if(r->u.timestamp == 0 || r->g.timestamp == 0) ========== char *l; // long savalarm; // savalarm = alarm(0); in = Bopen(file, OREAD); if(in == 0){ clog("readunixidmaps can't open %s: %r\n", file); // alarm(savalarm); return -1; } =============== From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 09:48:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 09:48:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1702 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 09:48:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1698 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 09:48:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 09:48:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 769F319C75; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AA0419C67; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:48:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26FE819A2D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65A9719C66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7krB-000Mj8-B0 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:10:09 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9nfs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:38:52 BST." <344e0ec7b586b08b5df68b7b3843b1dd@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <87364.1065744609.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:10:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Before I start the long journey does anyone have any insight into how > well plan9 behaves as an nfs server. Behavior is adequate, but not spectacular. I have an NFS3 server somewhere, but it's not any faster. It might be more stable. Without locking support, I'm not sure you'll be able to boot FreeBSD off it. I've used it to serve NFS to Linux and FreeBSD before, but the lack of exact Unix semantics (in particular the locking) usually forces me to store the files on the alien systems and use u9fs. > ============= > free(m); > break; > } > fprint(2, "looking for %lux\n", clientip); > if(getdom(clientip, dom, sizeof dom)<0){ > clog("auth: unknown ip address"); > return nil; > } > fprint(2, "dom is %s\n", dom); > for(r=idhead; r; r=r->next){ > if(r->u.timestamp == 0 || r->g.timestamp == 0) > ========== This I always have problems with -- the clients must be listed in ndb in order to be spoken to, so these prints tell me what's going on. > ========== > > char *l; > // long savalarm; > > // savalarm = alarm(0); > in = Bopen(file, OREAD); > if(in == 0){ > clog("readunixidmaps can't open %s: %r\n", file); > // alarm(savalarm); > return -1; > } > =============== This caused problems for Geoff. The alarm can interrupt other I/O and confuse things. I don't remember the details. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 09:56:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 09:56:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2059 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 09:56:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2055 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 09:56:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 09:56:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1788319C69; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E7A19C70; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:56:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C8F819C6D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx2.net.titech.ac.jp (mx2.net.titech.ac.jp [131.112.125.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BA81119C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 36036 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 00:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vc2.net.titech.ac.jp) (131.112.125.36) by mx2.net.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO o.cc.titech.ac.jp) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 00:55:02 -0000 Received: from valinore by mail-o.cc.titech.ac.jp (8.11.3/1.1.10.5/20Feb97-0455PM) id h9A0t1L138428; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:55:01 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4e4885b610c6452da4c7d2ac9c981bc4@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9nfs From: YAMANASHI Takeshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:54:49 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 10 09:35:37 JST 2003, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > Before I start the long journey does anyone have any insight into how > well plan9 behaves as an nfs server. i think 9nfs behaves very well because nfsserver(8) says: DESCRIPTION ........ All users on client machines have the access privileges of the Plan 9 user `none'. : BUGS It would be nice to provide authentication for users, but Unix systems provide too low a level of security to be trusted in a Plan 9 world. but this behaviour could be considered bad for your purpose. -- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 10:00:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 10:00:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2273 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 10:00:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2269 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 10:00:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 10:00:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CBDE19ABD; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AF8219C56; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F32219A9E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8D6B19A0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48f7d36718bd21302cbd8bf854f87e70@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Watanabe 32 dot Japanese fonts From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:00:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > How about using "mikachan font"? > I tried it. It works fine and cute. Well, judging from its name "ミカã¡ã‚ƒã‚“ フォント", I suppose it was made by some young guyes. Is it designed from scratch? Anyway, I'll try it this weekend, just now, I have to work for money. ☺ Thank you very much Jun. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 10:47:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 10:47:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4339 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 10:47:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4335 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 10:47:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 10:47:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD0C519C77; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D77DB19C74; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 997FB19A15; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BBCA19A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A1kbuV006430 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:46:37 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A1kbN0004345 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:46:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A1kbVP008062 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:46:37 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:46:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I just installed from the bleeding edge ISO, fossil file system, and have sent up venti as per the WIKI web page on setting up venti. I have also done this: venti -w /dev/sdC0/arenas0 venti.conf so that the conf is in the venti partition. Finally, in plan9.ini I have set this: venti=127.1 Boot suicides on the way up with an invalid address trap. What kind of general thing should I look for at this point? thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 10:50:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 10:50:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4446 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 10:50:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4442 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 10:50:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 10:50:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A28D519C3E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D305B19C67; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:50:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2B8019C3E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1BB419B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:49:35 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) try it without venti. I think I'm also running a bleeding edge fossil but with no venti and mine doesn't go tits up. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:05:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:05:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5897 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:05:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5892 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:05:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:05:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B052319C4B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD7AF19C7A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FF9419C4B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5894D19C70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23suV007022 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23sN0006169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23rVP008482 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > try it without venti. I think I'm also running a bleeding edge fossil but > with no venti and mine doesn't go tits up. yup, it's working fine minus venti, I've got one bootmenu entry with and one without, and the one with is the one that always dies. So this is a known problem and not something I've set up wrong? (well, in reality, it could be both ...) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:12:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:12:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6538 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:12:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6523 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:12:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:12:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A26E19BCC; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3BD9B19BEB; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 068DC19BB8; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D6DC19BAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7mB1-000Oxn-HN for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:34:43 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:49:35 EDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <95961.1065749683.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:34:43 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > try it without venti. I think I'm also running a bleeding edge fossil but > with no venti and mine doesn't go tits up. > For what it's worth, I did a bleeding-edge install two weeks ago and then did Venti and it was fine. I think you have the Venti variable wrong. It needs to be venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 if I recall correctly. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:14:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:14:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6628 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:14:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6621 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:14:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE68F19BD7; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF63B19C1F; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:14:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6ABBF19B5B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B3519BAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rsvagsojdexplhwewvwrgukqqo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:13:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rsvagsojdexplhwewvwrgukqqo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not a known problem, I just don't happen to run a venti and was running a new kernel with a fossil so I figured it was worth a try. Now you have to figure out what was wrong before. A crashing PC would help. --upas-rsvagsojdexplhwewvwrgukqqo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 22:05:44 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 22:05:41 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E73419C70; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E094F19C79; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FF9419C4B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5894D19C70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23suV007022 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23sN0006169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A23rVP008482 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:03:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > try it without venti. I think I'm also running a bleeding edge fossil but > with no venti and mine doesn't go tits up. yup, it's working fine minus venti, I've got one bootmenu entry with and one without, and the one with is the one that always dies. So this is a known problem and not something I've set up wrong? (well, in reality, it could be both ...) ron --upas-rsvagsojdexplhwewvwrgukqqo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:24:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:24:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7284 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:24:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7273 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:24:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:24:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 099BD19C7B; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EE9519B10; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE0D919B85; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DF7219BB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2MsuV007516 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2Mrge023045 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2MrVP008921 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:22:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > I think you have the Venti variable wrong. > It needs to be > > venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 well, ok, but looking at some of the source it looked like processes were trying to talk to this: tcp!$venti!venti which makes some sense. Anyway I did just this this exact setting in plan9.ini: venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 [is that really right?] same problem. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:30:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:30:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7652 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:30:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7645 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:30:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:30:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9F7A19C84; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C521119C88; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 55DAC19C5A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2 (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82D1619C56 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:28:48 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think you have the Venti variable wrong. > It needs to be shouldn't there be a loopback address configured before venti can start on 127.1? my boot file for pcfl has the following: ipconfig loopback /dev/null 127.1 just before venti... would this work if put in plan9.ini: bootargs=tcp loopback /dev/null 127.1 ? then the other ip address can be configured later via dhcp? or maybe it has to be configured immediately because fossil needs it... ugh, complicated... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:31:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:31:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7767 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:31:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7758 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:31:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:31:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8C0719C8C; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4669E19C88; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E179B19C8A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DDFB19C5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It needs the 17034 because until the file system starts up, there is no /lib/ndb/common to translate venti into 17034. Of course, this doesn't help since it still doesn't work... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:34:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:34:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8000 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:34:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7996 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:34:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:34:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E11519C86; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD67419C89; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C328719C81; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4E1319C6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2XbuV007882 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:33:37 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2Xa4F019160 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:33:36 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A2XaVP009222 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:33:36 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:33:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, ron minnich wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > > > I think you have the Venti variable wrong. > > It needs to be > > > > venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 > > well, ok, but looking at some of the source it looked like processes were > trying to talk to this: > tcp!$venti!venti > > which makes some sense. > > Anyway I did just this this exact setting in plan9.ini: > venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 > [is that really right?] > hmm. OK, I can do this after booting without any venti set up in plan9.ini: venti/venti -w vac -h 172.15.239.128 ... but not vac -h 127.1 ... Strikes me as odd because I can telnet tcp!127.1!venti just fine. But the vac -h 127.1 hangs in Syn_sent (as shown by netstat) and finally times out. Time to go sleep more. Probably a silly /lib/ndb/local mis-settting. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:36:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:36:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8149 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:36:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8142 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:36:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:36:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DFC619C94; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 942FE19C85; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF93919C91; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1933919C87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7mYD-000PZq-8X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:58:41 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:22:53 MDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <98320.1065751121.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:58:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyway I did just this this exact setting in plan9.ini: > venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 > [is that really right?] Actually, no it's not. I just checked /sys/src/9/boot/local.c. You want: venti=#S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk where #S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk is the disk you branded with venti/conf -w. You can say venti=#S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!8000 but the last two fields are the defaults. Still, the boot process shouldn't be page faulting, so this might not solve your problem. But /sys/src/9/boot/local.c is where you want to look (and look carefully at any messages before the page fault). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8540 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8536 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5100319B97; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E941619BE2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4282719B97; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2D0419B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lgobestaysrqtnksfhixkmaqke" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:41:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lgobestaysrqtnksfhixkmaqke Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This new venti string should fix all of ron's problems since, with a correct venti conf disk, he'll get into the if statement in the boot process that mounts the loopback interface, which is his second problem. When he telnetted to 127.1, he was probably going to whatever machine his default route points to and connecting to its local interface. --upas-lgobestaysrqtnksfhixkmaqke Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 22:36:44 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Oct 9 22:36:41 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 390B819C9E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BC019C94; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF93919C91; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1933919C87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7mYD-000PZq-8X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:58:41 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:22:53 MDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <98320.1065751121.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:58:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyway I did just this this exact setting in plan9.ini: > venti=tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!80 > [is that really right?] Actually, no it's not. I just checked /sys/src/9/boot/local.c. You want: venti=#S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk where #S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk is the disk you branded with venti/conf -w. You can say venti=#S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk tcp!127.1!17034 tcp!127.1!8000 but the last two fields are the defaults. Still, the boot process shouldn't be page faulting, so this might not solve your problem. But /sys/src/9/boot/local.c is where you want to look (and look carefully at any messages before the page fault). Russ --upas-lgobestaysrqtnksfhixkmaqke-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 11:46:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 11:46:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8807 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 11:46:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8803 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 11:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 11:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CC1719BE2; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0646719C60; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA35719C0A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4809D19BB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:44:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) There sure are a lot of chickens and eggs when starting a system that depends on user level file system that depends on a user level network store that depends on the kernel loaded that depends on the plan9.ini, all of which can be parameterized. If you have multiple machines, it really would be cool to have the venti on a system that didn't depend on that venti. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 12:10:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 12:10:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10513 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 12:10:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10509 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 12:10:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 12:10:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDBCF19C0A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92F6C19C5D; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9479119C0A; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0CE719C3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from patton.home (12-226-232-158.client.attbi.com[12.226.232.158]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20031010030856012004k5eie>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:08:56 +0000 Message-ID: <9bd1a4912836e2a5b0ac6b26c9a56183@cs.cmu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install From: David Swasey In-Reply-To: <20031010022403.24764.97956.Mailman@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:08:44 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got venti and fossil (from sources, not a CD) working on a laptop. I did not see any invalid address trap while debugging. It took me an embarassingly long time to realize that network addresses like > tcp!$venti!venti do not work. Fossil and venti are run without /lib/ndb so they require numeric ports. Just in case it helps, I am including my boot, flproto, and venti.conf. They are rough. -dave --upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #!/boot/rc -m /boot/rcmain cd /boot cp '#r/rtc' '#c/time' bind -a '#I' /net bind -a '#l0' /net bind -a '#S' /dev bind -a '#c' /dev bind '#p' /proc bind '#d' /fd ipconfig ipconfig loopback /dev/null 127.1 authaddr=`{sed -n 's/ auth=(.*)/\1/p' /net/ndb|sed 1q} if(~ $authaddr ()){ echo 'authdom=home auth=12.226.232.158' >> /net/ndb authaddr=12.226.232.158 } factotum -a$authaddr -sfactotum -u echo -n 'dma on' > /dev/sdC0/ctl echo -n 'rwm on' > /dev/sdC0/ctl venti -c venti.conf fossil -f /dev/sdC0/fossil echo -n 127.1 > '#e'/venti mount -c '#s'/boot /root bind -ac /root / bind -c /root/mnt /mnt mount -a '#s/factotum' /mnt rootdir=/root rootspec='' exec /386/init -t --upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit srv -p fscons srv boot #listen tcp!*!564 #listen il!*!564 fsys main config /dev/sdC0/fossil fsys main venti tcp!127.1!17034 fsys main open fsys main users -r /active/adm/users --upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # the name of the index index main # the index sections isect /dev/sdC0/isect0 # the arenas # We could delete cfs and add a 512MB arenas1 arenas /dev/sdC0/arenas0 # Defaults are 1m, 0, 0 mem 1m #bcmem 0 icmem 64k addr tcp!127.1!17034 httpaddr tcp!127.1!80 queuewrites --upas-xjktmgllkwomeuiynmpghnjpwo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 12:14:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 12:14:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10697 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 12:14:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10688 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 12:14:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 12:14:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAE6419C23; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7747119BA4; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B75919C3C; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13C2919BB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A3CuuV009323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:12:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A3Cuge028227 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:12:56 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9A3CuVP010061 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:12:56 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:12:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > You want: > > venti=#S/sdC0/venti-conf-disk hey, yeah, I do. That did it! I'm putting together a little 'wiki addition' and this goes in there too. Now I have to figure out how to get fossil and venti from 'P' to 'Drive'. :-) Thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 15:23:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 15:23:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23295 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 15:23:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23291 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 15:23:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 15:23:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BF7319BF1; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E77119BFB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2B0919B1B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A847519BAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Watanabe 32 dot Japanese fonts From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <48f7d36718bd21302cbd8bf854f87e70@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:23:11 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> How about using "mikachan font"? >> I tried it. It works fine and cute. > > Well, judging from its name "ミカã¡ã‚ƒã‚“ フォント", I suppose > it was made by some young guyes. Is it designed from scratch? > Anyway, I'll try it this weekend, just now, I have to work for money. ☺ I visited this web page, and found some kinds of comic moji(Kanji). No, it doesn't fit to my needs. It's too much cute.☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 15:48:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 15:48:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24767 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 15:48:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24763 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 15:48:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 15:48:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A10419C1E; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B013419BFB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F06519B24; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94AB619ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92f58c1d82b93f0d421ece40ffb0236b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] gcc install help needed From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:48:28 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Could someone lead my hand through the correct install of gcc-3.0 port? > I obvoiously did something wrong ... I can compile C, but not C++ When I compile hpijs-1.4.1, I had to change some as follows: 1) add the function as suggested by Peter Bosch from bell-labs to the file which contains main() function, // Ugly, G++ for Plan 9 needs to be installed correctly. void ctors(void) { typedef void (*func_ptr)(void); extern func_ptr ___CTOR_LIST__[]; for (int i = 0; i != (int)___CTOR_LIST__[0]; i++) ___CTOR_LIST__[i + 1](); } and and in the top of the main function call the function: ctors(); 2) in my case I had to add two functions to vsnprintf() and snprintf() to libc library. then, I copied snprintf.c and vsnprintf.c files from /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/stdio to /sys/src/gnu/ape/libc/stdio. You may also want to add two lines for those two functions into /sys/include/gnu/stdio.h like: extern int snprintf(char *, size_t, const char *, ...); extern int vsnprintf(char *, size_t, const char *, va_list); Of course you have to change /sys/src/gnu/ape/libc/stdio/mkfile, too. 3) then, recompile /386/lib/gnu/libc.a. Don't forget to ranlib to it. You may want to add some neccessary files which I forgot. I remember it was neccessary to recompile the library. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 15:54:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 15:54:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25119 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 15:54:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25088 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 15:54:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 15:54:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CC3F19C66; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F89E19C95; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:54:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F83719C61; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B08D419C5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 02:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29e002f9eeee100018713f89977a1de6@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] gcc install help needed From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <92f58c1d82b93f0d421ece40ffb0236b@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:54:28 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > 3) then, recompile /386/lib/gnu/libc.a. Don't forget to ranlib to it. > You may want to add some neccessary files which I forgot. It was adding three files to /sys/src/gnu/ape: 1) mkconfig # global include file for the APE environment < /$objtype/mkfile # gives (compiler loader extension ranliber) APEBIN=/$objtype/bin/gnu/ape # where installed ape binaries go APELIB=/rc/bin/gnu/ape # where helper programs go CC=gcc # compiler (must be ansi) LD=gcc # loader AS=as CFLAGS= # global defaults FAMILY=plan9 AR=ar # manipulating libraries RANLIB=echo # for updating libraries INSTALL=$APELIB/install # install script INSOWNER=() # default installation parameter INSGROUP=bin # default installation parameter INSMODE=775 # default installation parameter 2) mkfile $target update:V: update $UPDATEFLAGS $UPDATE Those I copied from somewhere, and make small changes, but I forgot it. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 16:20:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 16:20:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27121 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 16:20:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27099 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 16:19:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 16:19:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C8D919BC5; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED09119C32; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11C6819B03; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA501199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65b0c8e0aa75ffe40701300be74fba23@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. In-Reply-To: <42665.135.214.42.162.1065558632.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-eixagkiovqvspximwujshonxws" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:18:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-eixagkiovqvspximwujshonxws Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, there seems to be enough interest. I'll put it on sources but want to do a little cleanup to it first. I'll post an announcement when ready. --upas-eixagkiovqvspximwujshonxws Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.2.10]) by plan9; Tue Oct 7 15:09:13 EDT 2003 Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h97J9B0C048923 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by dusty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h97JDN49054736 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4AAA19B70; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 731C919B87; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13B1E19B8A; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF73A19B70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h97KUW108874 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42665.135.214.42.162.1065558632.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <51ffec3e15f60b424ed83a65a9db2bb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Eric, > A few years ago I wrote a filterfs exclude files matching a > regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing > part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in > the past, there can be times when you need to effectively > delete things from Venti. > > It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm > willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. I just want to know what you decided on. It would be nice if you can put it on sources. Things like filterfs are special-purpose ones but I think it is worth saving the code in a way it is usable when needed. Let it be there like a parachute lying somewhere in the flight. We will use it when needed. Thanks dharani --upas-eixagkiovqvspximwujshonxws-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 21:01:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 21:01:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7099 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 21:01:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7095 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 21:01:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 21:01:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 517CC19B5B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A95F619A80; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:01:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2971119B2E; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft-old.strakt.com [62.13.29.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F1C319A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-5) with ESMTP id h9AC0BeS019279 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:00:11 +0200 Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h9AC0Bh9031069 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:00:11 +0200 Received: (from lac@localhost) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h9AC0A1c031067 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:00:10 +0200 From: Laura Creighton Message-Id: <200310101200.h9AC0A1c031067@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:00:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have to answer the question 'how do you know you have enough people on the project'? I just want to write a compiler, and after all, the syntax of the language is fixed. I want to say we don't want a bloody army, after all C was made by X people, Y helping and C++ by Q people, R people helping. Anybody here know what X Y Q R are? Laura From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 21:16:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 21:16:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7323 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7319 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 21:16:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75BE819A7C; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B7F019ABD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5522C19A90; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A6CA19A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] kfscmd atime considered harmful Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:15:16 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Using disk/kfscmd atime, which reduces disk activity by preventing the updating of access times when files and directories are accessed for reading, has an unfortunate side effect of making the effects of wstat somewhat ephemeral: term% ls -l d --rw-r----- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/one --rw-r----- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/two term% disk/kfscmd atime atimes will not be updated term% chmod 666 d/one term% mv d/two d/three term% ls -l d --rw-rw-rw- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/one --rw-r----- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/three term% du >/dev/null term% ls -l d --rw-r----- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/one --rw-r----- M 8 miller miller 0 Oct 10 10:31 d/two I'll send a suggested fix to 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 23:11:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 23:11:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10121 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 23:11:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10116 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 23:11:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 23:11:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BC7C19B39; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:11:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7C9119BAF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A93E19A88; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tfraser.cs.umd.edu (proxy.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.182]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55A9719A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tfraser.cs.umd.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tfraser.cs.umd.edu (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9AE6Lw6002790 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tfraser@localhost) by tfraser.cs.umd.edu (8.12.9/8.12.2/Submit) id h9AE6LMs002789 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Fraser To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031010140614.GB2749@tfraser.cs.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] admin with fossil? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here's a couple of newbie questions for you all; I apologize in advance for trying your patience: I recently installed Plan 9 4th edition off of an installation CD-ROM downloaded on 29 Sept 2003. Sticking to the defaults, I wound up with a stand-alone terminal running a local fossil filesystem. Question 1: What is the proper way to overcome fossil's access controls in order to perform administrative tasks (such as editing /rc/bin/termrc)? Is there a means of turning off access control with fossil as there is with kfs, or does one create a user with administrative group memberships? Question 2: Based on the number of helpful examples on the web, kfs appears to be a well-trodden path. However, it seems that fossil is the way of the future. Which filesystem is more appropriate for my stand-alone terminal, fossil or kfs? Thanks, Tim Fraser / U. Maryland Institute for Advanced Computer Studies From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 23:22:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 23:22:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10350 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 23:22:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10346 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 23:22:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 23:22:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93DEC19BAC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8BDD19B85; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75EFA199FD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8CB919A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8086cd733643978a352f1d9ce608a01d@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] admin with fossil? In-Reply-To: <20031010140614.GB2749@tfraser.cs.umd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:20:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm replaced my laptop's kfs with fossil and am not sad. It works well. To get at things, you can make a /srv file that you can administer fossil through: %; con /srv/fscons main: fsys main main: srv -AP admin Then mount /srv/admin somewhere and admin away. You could also make a user that's the leader of all groups but this is a lot less typing. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 10 23:47:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 10 23:47:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10964 invoked by uid 1020); 10 Oct 2003 23:47:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10960 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 23:47:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 23:47:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09E7419B97; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB1619BDB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:47:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0C8E19A9D; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFE93199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36fe3982fad9a0242c53d65752a361b4@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] admin with fossil? In-Reply-To: <20031010140614.GB2749@tfraser.cs.umd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:46:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>the way of the future. Which filesystem is more appropriate for my >>stand-alone terminal, fossil or kfs? fossil/venti should be fine. i've certainly switched my thinkpad from kfs to fossil without fuss. it backs up to venti on the same device, mainly so i can recover the fossil more easily if required. functionally, fossil has got long names (sometimes useful) but more important, snapshots and archives, which kfs hasn't. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 00:01:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 00:01:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11324 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 00:01:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11320 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 00:01:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 00:01:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B784119BEB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A792719BBD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E29119A0B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65ABE19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 8684DCD70; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:00:44 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] mouse dragging Message-ID: <20031010150044.GB16004@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <235f188c32d6eaa3e5180c5c72e8b485@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:00:44 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 11:16:38PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>i'm always fsck'd up when i point an icon which i can't > >>identify its function and wait a stupid balloon to appear. > > the most amusing example of that i've seen recently > was the Redhat button with some text in it that when > hovered over produced the same text in a balloon. I can't wait to see what follows "tool tips". How about full motion video in a popup window (maybe with some subtle product placement) that shows what would happen if you clicked on the icon. Maybe after that, Microsoft will be ready to switch to Voice-activated User Interfaces and start the cycle anew: take 1: speak natural language commands to the computer doesn't work, people can't form unambiguous commands take 2: computer speaks a list of commands to speak back doesn't work, applications add too many commands, takes all day to hear them take 3: invent "shorthand" language so that it doesn't take so long to recite menu items doesn't work, people can't remember the shorthand take 4: if no reponse to "shorthand" query, repeat in real language and wait for user to confirm works, but everything now takes ten times as long to do take 5: people switch to 9mm command language (small boyd tribute) Of course, by then Plan 9 users will be driving acme by thought control. (But remember, you must think in UTF-8.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 00:17:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 00:17:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11671 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 00:17:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11667 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 00:17:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 00:17:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8508219BDB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABF0F19BEA; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CDC119A65; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B82919B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A7yyX-0004Co-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:14:41 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Ed Message-ID: <9668f18.0310100652.7e2fc273@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Trolling for someone to speak about Plan 9 in the Princeton NJ area Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:14:15 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello Plan 9ers, I am the president of a Linux users group (LUG/IP - http://www.lugip.org) that meets in the Princeton, NJ area. A number of our members have expressed some interest in learning something about Plan 9. However, no one in the group has an experience with Plan 9 so we do not have anyone qualified to speak about it from within our ranks. I was hoping that I could find someone who is familiar with Plan 9 to come speak about it at one of our meetings. We don't collect dues, so we couldn't pay someone--although we could probably buy a few beers for someone that comes after the meeting. It doesn't need a professional presentation, just someone that can give a basic introduction about what Plan 9 is and it's benefits. If anyone is in the Princeton NJ area that might be interested in coming to speak, you can contact me at lug_ip@yahoo.com. BTW: We meet the third Wednesday night of the month. Thank you, Edward From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 00:18:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 00:18:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11678 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 00:18:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11674 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 00:17:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 00:17:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9BF419BFD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 461DA19C11; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:17:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5658019A90; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72DE419A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1A7yxx-0004Bl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:14:05 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "John P. Cummings" Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] wavelan wireless card Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:14:01 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) (i tried posting a similar message a few days ago but never saw it make the group. sigh...) hi- i'm a new plan9 user so all the usual caveats about stupid questions can be inserted here. i have installed plan9 on my ibm thinkpad t22 and it seems to be working. what i cannot figure out is how to use wireless ethernet. i have a orinoco "silver" pcmcia card. looking in /sys/src/9/pc/wavelan.c, it seems as if the support is basic but exists... "Has been used with the card plugged in during all up time. no card removals/insertions yet." ok, i boot up with the card in and see: ... #l0: i82557: 10Mbps port 0x180 irq 11: 00000000FEF1 #Y0: Lucent Technologies; WaveLAN/IEEE; Version 01.01; irq 3, port 180 wavelanreset, iob 0x180 #l1: wavelan: 10Mbps port 0x180 irq 3: 00022D65C81A #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1860, irq 11 ... hmm... i'm not a hundred percent sure how to read all that, but it looks ok to me. if i now poke around... term% cd '#Y' term% ls cb0ctl cb1ctl term% cd '#l' term% ls ether0 term% ether0 is my builtin ethernet. no sign of ether1 anywhere. should i see it? things seemed to get recognized at boot up. any suggestions/advice? john cummings cummij@rpi.edu From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 00:40:10 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 00:40:10 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12129 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 00:39:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12120 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 00:39:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 00:39:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6C1719B27; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0A7D19B91; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49DED19B10; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B78B19BCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A7yl3-000D3k-JU for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:00:45 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wavelan wireless card In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:14:01 GMT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <50184.1065798032.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:00:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ether0 is my builtin ethernet. no sign of ether1 anywhere. should i > see it? things seemed to get recognized at boot up. > > any suggestions/advice? bind -a '#l1' /net cd /net/ether1 ip/ipconfig ether /net/ether1 etc. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 01:41:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 01:41:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13940 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 01:41:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13936 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 01:41:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 01:41:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D3A819BAF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9ED1219BCC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCB8C19A0B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1DED199E4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wavelan wireless card In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:44:20 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) When I got my wavelan to work with the ipaq I had to fiddle around in wavelan.c curiously there are two different versions, slightly different I remember seeing it reported in 9fans but I don't know if they have been fixed on sources yet. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 02:13:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 02:13:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15245 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 02:13:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15241 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 02:13:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 02:13:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C7A019AFE; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1B1919B2E; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:13:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCFFC19A88; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DC4819AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14bae42c259a2cc25468694aada1b29a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:12:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias, I think I fixed the Opera problem. We were parsing what was a UID as a sequence number. Normally it doesn't matter. However a seqno can't be 0 and Opera was asking for uid 0 which resulted in a syntax error. The fix should be available for 'pull' soon or you can just copy over the new imap4d.c form sources, recompile, and tell me if it works. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 03:31:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 03:31:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17005 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 03:31:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17000 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 03:31:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 03:31:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4FDE19ACF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC4B019B24; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:31:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B93D319AD3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24FEE19AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f174b42aaf99a66a53d4ede5ead0fb3@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:30:40 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Matthias, I looked at the trace you got of the mutt/imap4d conversation. As far as I can tell, imap4d's responses are all correct and mutt never asks for a message. I'm intalling mutt now to see if I can figure out more, but my time for this is limited. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 04:33:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 04:33:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18608 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 04:33:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18604 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 04:33:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 04:33:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 28E4C19B45; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5F0F19B06; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:33:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5399D19ACC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00F1819A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41ac8db52c52ec54964e779d46c00c48@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wavelan wireless card In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:36:04 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ls '#l1' (letter-l 1) to see ether1, #l2 for ether2 (if there is one) etc. there's a hint to that effect in the boot messages you showed. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 05:02:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 05:02:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19401 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 05:02:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19397 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 05:02:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 05:02:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D51719AD4; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3342F19B1B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:02:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D987019A98; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DB0519AEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: <5FCD048A-F8BB-11D7-AD0A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:01:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Oct 7 07:44:52 EDT 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > >>> > >>>> By the way, is it possible to get screen shot with mouse cursor? > >>>> > >>>> Kenji Arisawa > > > > Yup. with vmware :-). > > Gorka > > Yes, such an environment is really useful in writing manual. > We can get snapshots of installation process that are impossible > on native OS. > I am using Virtual PC for this purpose. > I really want Plan 9 can work with network on Virtual PC. > > Kenji Arisawa When I read that I thought "Oh no, here's the Virtual PC question again", so I had a go at making it work. I downloaded the trial version from Microsoft (yes, they now own the Windows version, not Connectix), it's version 5.2. The ethernet and host chipset emulated have changed to ones Plan 9 has drivers for, as it does for the video adapter. I had to make some small changes to the PCI code (I thought I'd fixed it before, but apparently not); there are updated /sys/src/9/pc/pci.c and /sys/src/boot/pc/pci.c on sources. After that it works fine. The video is restricted on Plan 9 to be only 8-bits deep and doesn't know about the extra 4MB the framebuffer has, but that's just because we never did the code in aux/vga for the Trio64 chip at any higher depths. It's left as an exercise for the user. If you have any problems and you get back to me before the trial version times out I will try to help. --jim P.S. I'm writing this in an virtual PC. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 05:43:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 05:43:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20603 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 05:43:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20594 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 05:42:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 05:42:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1744419ACC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAE3119B24; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9579819ACC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58C0D19AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:41:19 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <0F43A455-FB62-11D7-B61A-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:41:01 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > When I read that I thought "Oh no, here's the Virtual PC question > again", so I had a go at making it work. I downloaded the trial version > .... Jim, I really thank you! Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 06:01:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 06:01:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21198 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 06:01:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21159 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 06:00:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 06:00:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AC6419AC8; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79BC719B1B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:00:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2D0119A89; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C77519A9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:58:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,UPPERCASE_25_50 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) OK, I just looked through the mutt source. It is incorrect. Specificly, it will not recognize a reply like this: * 26 FETCH (uid 6439 internaldate "10-Oct-2003 16:24:37 -0400" RFC822.SIZE 8883 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {1698} ... Specificly, it can't put up with the body[...] part of the message. This actually exists in the spec (and is in fact in an example). I'll fix their code and send it to them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 07:12:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 07:12:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22943 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 07:12:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22939 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 07:12:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 07:12:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6096319ABD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70B3B19B54; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:12:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D42219AEA; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8EF419A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ebe66e46b2d686c0b47607a294e5886@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200310101200.h9AC0A1c031067@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:11:39 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I believe dmr wrote the original C compiler by himself, without yacc. pcc was written by Steve Johnson, with yacc, and I think he did it by himself. The plan 9 C compilers were written by Ken Thompson, with yacc. Ken claims that it takes 3 weeks to port his compiler (and assembler and loader) to a new machine, but that's with Ken doing the porting, working long days. There are at least the 13 ports that I know of. Charles Forsyth did the power pc port (qc). If LANL comes through with money, I may end up porting it to the AMD K8. lcc was written by Dave Hanson and Chris Fraser; Norman Wilson has ported it to the VAX. I'm less sure about C++. I think it was, at least initially, done by Bjarne, with yacc. Limbo was implemented by Sean Dorward, with yacc, I think unassisted. f77 was written by Stu Feldman, with yacc, and with Peter Weinberger contributing the Fortran libraries (e.g., for I/O). There are undoubtedly compilers that I'm less familiar with that were implemented by an army (probably IBM's compilers, at least in the old days), but that was probably due to the habit of throwing armies at problems rather than any real need. I don't know how many people were used to implement the full Algol 68 language either. And MIPS's compilers are elephantine, so it's likely that they had armies working on them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 07:14:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 07:14:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22990 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 07:14:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22986 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 07:14:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 07:14:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63B1619B51; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5644419B7C; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6377519B5B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E3B619B51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <920cda07870441a59ba2e3e138f4183d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <200310101200.h9AC0A1c031067@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:12:57 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Sorry, that was meant to be private mail to Laura. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 09:23:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 09:23:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26600 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 09:23:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26596 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 09:23:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 09:23:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6623F19B56; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 349B519BAC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:23:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBCEF19B56; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4E3819B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:10:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) this is very exciting, however it seems the boot floppy generated by the web page does not pick up the new drivers? or rather, i'm not able to see my ethernet device (via ls #l). i'm running the Mac OS X version, 6.1 (which, sadly, MS also owns). Win2K tells me it's got a Intel 21041 Based PCI Ethernet Adaptor. notably, the boot floppy also fails to start rio, despite the fact that i got the needed entry for /lib/vgadb off 9fans quite some time ago. am i just SOL on the Mac version? well, VN's got a Inferno 4e edition for Mac i can play with... :-) ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 09:46:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 09:46:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27518 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 09:46:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27514 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 09:46:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 09:46:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C79D519B85; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2C8219BEB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3A6119A7C; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 122A8199CC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] venti ports and productization Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:37:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) a few times someone (ehg?) has talked about work being done to get venti working on other OSs, and i at least got the impression that this was being donwe with an eye towards productization. i, for one, am very interested. i've recently found myself back in the world of "operations". we're in the (slow) process of moving the IT stuff over to Mac OS X from various vintages of Win32. we currently use some commercial app for backups on the server, and it's pretty good. but i'm reluctant to buy more than one copy. it's not *that* good. but given the equivalent of /n/dump on OS X, and some decent management tools (so i can have non-plan9 types admin it), i'd gladly shell out $100/mac, more for the servers. i'd even buy a few copies of a Win32 port, since it may be a while until we've nixed all that crap. so... is work on that progressing? is it more research or product? any ETA? any details of the work being done (just raw venti, or some level of FS integration)? thanks, ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 09:55:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 09:55:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28020 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 09:55:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28016 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 09:55:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 09:55:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9D0A19B9A; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 864CD19B8A; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:55:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29E7A19B5B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7CAE19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02533719979dc214deeeeb88a5c0bb12@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lqynpaxsigpdbbrorrqbhjhsas" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:53:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,UPPERCASE_25_50 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lqynpaxsigpdbbrorrqbhjhsas Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I gave up trying to fix mutt. I'ld have to change the structure of its parsing to make it parse correctly, too much work. From the comments, they know its screwed up. I was wrong about what it was misparsing. The problem was that we returned flags in a seperate fetch reply. Fine by the RFC but not fine with mutt. I just changed our behaviour because it was a lot easier to do. Fixes on sources. --upas-lqynpaxsigpdbbrorrqbhjhsas Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 6 05:31:54 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Oct 6 05:31:51 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CD9319BF3; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C1D519BDC; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:31:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 562B619BA7; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EB1DE19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 68953 invoked by uid 66); 6 Oct 2003 09:31:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7841 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 09:30:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 56814 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Oct 2003 09:30:07 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <68c590d500b69a3275bc94a041de3669@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:14:05 -0400") Message-ID: <86brsuyaqo.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:30:07 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > without. If you don't manage to debug the problem, I'll bring up opera M2 > in a few days and give it a try. I've made a snapshot of the opera/imap conversation. Opera has problems to fetch the message. * OK coco IMAP4rev1 server ready 3 CAPABILITY * CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 3 OK CAPABILITY 4 AUTHENTICATE CRAM-MD5 + PGI5N2Q5MDRlMTVjNWZhYmIuOWYzZjUzNTliYzU5ZGM3M0Bjb2NvPg== bXRnIDBmMmQzNWI3NTBmM2Q2YzBmYjA1OWYzZGQwYTM1ZGZk 4 OK AUTHENTICATE 5 STATUS INBOX (MESSAGES UIDNEXT RECENT) * STATUS (MESSAGES 1 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 85) 5 OK STATUS completed 6 SELECT INBOX * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 1 exists * 0 recent * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 85] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065365553] 6 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT INBOX completed 7 FETCH 1:* (UID FLAGS) * 1 FETCH (uid 48) * 1 fetch (flags (\Seen)) 7 OK FETCH completed 8 UID FETCH 0 (UID FLAGS RFC822.SIZE RFC822.HEADER) 8 BAD UID bad syntax Mutt fetches the header of the messages but has problems with the format. I get a listing of the folders in mutt and kmail but both cant display the messages. * OK coco IMAP4rev1 server ready a0000 CAPABILITY * CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 a0000 OK CAPABILITY a0001 AUTHENTICATE CRAM-MD5 + PDlkNWFiNzY5NDBmNWNmOTkuYmExYTdiZTY1Y2MyMjc5QGNvY28+ bXRnIGQzNGNkNTY0YjM4NDI3YTUxMmM3MWI3NDQ4ZmVjZjYz a0001 OK AUTHENTICATE a0002 LIST "" "" * LIST (\Noselect) "/" "" a0002 OK LIST a0003 SELECT "INBOX/" * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 1 exists * 0 recent * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 85] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065365553] a0003 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT INBOX completed a0004 FETCH 1:1 (UID FLAGS INTERNALDATE RFC822.SIZE BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (DATE FROM SUBJECT TO CC MESSAGE-ID REFERENCES CONTENT-TYPE IN-REPLY-TO REPLY-TO LINES X-LABEL)]) * 1 FETCH (uid 48 internaldate " 5-Oct-2003 16:50:44 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2518 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {356} Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server In-Reply-To: <868ynzd5zr.fsf@gic.mteege.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:14:58 -0400 ) * 1 fetch (flags (\Seen)) a0004 OK FETCH completed a0005 NAMESPACE * namespace (("" "/")) nil nil a0005 OK NAMESPACE completed a0006 LIST "" "%" * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" INBOX * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" presotto * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" steve.simon * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" cross * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" jmk * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" rsc * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" matthias * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" fst * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" somefile * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" arisawa * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" stored * LIST (\Noinferiors) "/" Trash * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" mirtchov * LIST (\Noinferiors \Marked) "/" vdharani a0006 OK LIST completed a0007 SELECT "arisawa" * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft) * 2 exists * 0 recent * OK [UNSEEN 1] * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted)] * OK [UIDNEXT 3] * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1065290476] a0007 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT arisawa completed a0008 FETCH 1:2 (UID FLAGS INTERNALDATE RFC822.SIZE BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (DATE FROM SUBJECT TO CC MESSAGE-ID REFERENCES CONTENT-TYPE IN-REPLY-TO REPLY-TO LINES X-LABEL)]) * 1 FETCH (uid 1 internaldate "30-Sep-2003 03:07:13 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2574 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {367} Subject: Re: [9fans] cpdir Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:44:18 +0900 ) * 2 FETCH (uid 2 internaldate " 3-Oct-2003 11:40:34 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 2572 body[HEADER.FIELDS ("DATE" "FROM" "SUBJECT" "TO" "CC" "MESSAGE-ID" "REFERENCES" "CONTENT-TYPE" "IN-REPLY-TO" "REPLY-TO" "LINES" "X-LABEL")] {357} Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Kenji Arisawa To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <115AB500-F596-11D7-BEBE-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> Subject: [9fans] Pegasus 2.0b Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:38:11 +0900 ) * 1 fetch (flags ()) * 2 fetch (flags ()) a0008 OK FETCH completed a0009 LOGOUT * bye a0009 OK LOGOUT completed Read the imap rfc will take some time. ;-) Matthias --upas-lqynpaxsigpdbbrorrqbhjhsas-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 10:37:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 10:37:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29330 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 10:37:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29326 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 10:37:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 10:37:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE83F19A03; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9C5F19BC5; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 572FB19B8A; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0DBA19A80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8b476aa6a5f52ca0bb94c22b82464288@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:36:14 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri Oct 10 20:23:53 EDT 2003, a@9srv.net wrote: > this is very exciting, however it seems the boot floppy generated by > the web page does not pick up the new drivers? or rather, i'm not > able to see my ethernet device (via ls #l). i'm running the Mac OS X > version, 6.1 (which, sadly, MS also owns). Win2K tells me it's got a > Intel 21041 Based PCI Ethernet Adaptor. notably, the boot floppy > also fails to start rio, despite the fact that i got the needed > entry for /lib/vgadb off 9fans quite some time ago. am i just SOL > on the Mac version? > > well, VN's got a Inferno 4e edition for Mac i can play with... :-) > ã‚¢ I only put up the source fixes to the PCI routines on sources, nothing was built. If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 10:46:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 10:46:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29643 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 10:46:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29639 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 10:46:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 10:46:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E42519B92; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12C3619A03; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23258199DE; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94E0719B88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <73b3942dd851d4058f35864989b40426@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:45:25 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm not aware of any efforts here to 'productise' or port Venti. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 11:02:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 11:02:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30294 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 11:02:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30290 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 11:02:31 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 11:02:31 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D46E19B10; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6882F19BA1; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:02:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A03F719AE3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC979199DE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.67.67]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003101102005601400ba4cme>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:00:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3F8761EC.2010002@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization References: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> In-Reply-To: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:50:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I think ehg talked/mentioned about productizing factotum for (l)unix and windows, and IIRC not venti. > a few times someone (ehg?) has talked about work > being done to get venti working on other OSs, and > i at least got the impression that this was > being donwe with an eye towards productization. i, > for one, am very interested. i've recently found > myself back in the world of "operations". we're > in the (slow) process of moving the IT stuff over > to Mac OS X from various vintages of Win32. we > currently use some commercial app for backups on > the server, and it's pretty good. but i'm > reluctant to buy more than one copy. it's not > *that* good. but given the equivalent of /n/dump > on OS X, and some decent management tools (so i > can have non-plan9 types admin it), i'd gladly > shell out $100/mac, more for the servers. i'd > even buy a few copies of a Win32 port, since it > may be a while until we've nixed all that crap. > > so... is work on that progressing? is it more > research or product? any ETA? any details of the > work being done (just raw venti, or some level > of FS integration)? thanks, > ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 11:15:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 11:15:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30723 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 11:15:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30719 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 11:15:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 11:15:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72E1519BFB; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB16619C07; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFA3219ABD; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38EA219ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A89Gf-0001YW-FS for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:14:05 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:37:01 EDT." <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5982.1065838445.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:14:05 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) A while ago I ported vac (not vacfs!) to Windows. Dave and Eric made the port work a bit better, but my impression (from afar) is that there hasn't been any further work, especially not toward commercialization. [Jmk's recent mail supports this.] I ported Venti the server to FreeBSD a year ago, though the port is incomplete and unsatisfactory for various reasons. I also wrote a program to store FFS file system images as vac-style streams and another program to parse the backed-up images and serve them over an NFS loopback server. We back up just under 200GB of disk every night. I'm very happy with it. amsterdam=; hist ~/.profile Sep 6 22:50:53 EDT 2003 /home/am3/rsc/.profile 900 Sep 6 22:50:53 EDT 2003 /dump/am3/2003/1010/rsc/.profile 900 Apr 10 18:30:26 EDT 2003 /dump/am3/2003/0906/rsc/.profile 851 Jan 27 18:22:32 EST 2003 /dump/am3/2003/0410/rsc/.profile 797 amsterdam=; These programs use the same unsatisfactory port environment. Over the next few months I plan to clean them up and make them build using the new port environment that I used for samterm (which I'd be packaging right now if I weren't writing this email ;-). I'm also thinking about various ways to speed up the Venti server (which is currently dog slow) but again that won't happen for a few months -- I'm up to my eyeballs in other things. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 11:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 11:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31756 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 11:45:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31751 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 11:45:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 11:45:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1728B19BDF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 232F919B54; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 608C319AD3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 692E919ABF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 38F7166B2C; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031011024405.GB834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] VIA Info Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:44:05 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The folks tinkering with the VIA EPIA boards probably already know about this site. In case they don't and for anyone else interested, here's a site with all sorts of info on VIA chips, CPUs, and motherboards. http://www.viaarena.com/ It's not the greatest web site, and the info isn't enough to write drivers for anything. It may help in identifying chips and such, though. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 14:06:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 14:06:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4179 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 14:06:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4175 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 14:06:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 14:06:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0577619BB4; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CB3819BB2; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:06:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DBDF19A65; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AB2DC19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43422 invoked by uid 66); 11 Oct 2003 05:05:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 18171 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 05:03:42 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 05:03:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 61278 invoked by uid 1001); 11 Oct 2003 05:03:40 -0000 To: David Presotto Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: <9cee3c08f48b79252e3e53aa59d488c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: <9cee3c08f48b79252e3e53aa59d488c0@plan9.bell-labs.com> (David Presotto's message of "Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:12:46 -0400") Message-ID: <8665iwicwj.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:03:40 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > I think I fixed the Opera problem. We were parsing what was a UID > as a sequence number. Normally it doesn't matter. However a Many thanks. That realy helps. > seqno can't be 0 and Opera was asking for uid 0 which resulted in > a syntax error. The fix should be available for 'pull' soon or > you can just copy over the new imap4d.c form sources, recompile, > and tell me if it works. If it isnt to much trouble please send me a copy of imap4d.c via email. If got my static ip addresses this week and now I rebuild my hole network. Pull will work next week but it would be nice if I can see/test the code today or tomorrow. Many thanks again Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 14:11:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 14:11:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4276 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 14:11:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4269 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 14:11:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 14:11:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0845A19BD7; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9C5819B31; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3DB319B31; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6B41B19B31 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 43461 invoked by uid 66); 11 Oct 2003 05:10:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18232 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 05:09:32 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 05:09:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 61685 invoked by uid 1001); 11 Oct 2003 05:09:29 -0000 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] IMAP clients and plan9 imap server References: From: Matthias Teege In-Reply-To: (David Presotto's message of "Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:58:56 -0400") Message-ID: <861xtkicmu.fsf@gic.mteege.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias-9fans@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:09:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > Specificly, it can't put up with the body[...] part of the message. This > actually exists in the spec (and is in fact in an example). I'll fix their > code and send it to them. Nice, I'll test the new imap4d.c against some other email clients and post a sum. Sorry for the lot of trouble. Matthias From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 18:23:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 18:23:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10447 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 18:23:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10443 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 18:23:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 18:23:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 528E019C1C; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D129919C1C; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:23:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A724C19BC5; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89CDD19B59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <3ebe66e46b2d686c0b47607a294e5886@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:21:52 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>yacc. Ken claims that it takes 3 weeks to port his compiler (and >>assembler and loader) to a new machine, but that's with Ken doing the >>porting, working long days. it can be somewhat less than that. it rather depends on the nature of the target processor, whether there's something similar in the existing suite, and whether you feel the need to do an interpreter as well. i've found it the easiest compiler suite to port that produces reasonable code. i like its broad division of work for the machine analysis. unlike the usual assembler/linker grunge, to which people seem glued, there isn't repetition of work as regards the instruction encoding. lcc is probably quicker to port but then you still need the usual assembler/loader grunge, and the code isn't as good. (nice compiler, though.) >>problems rather than any real need. I don't know how many people were >>used to implement the full Algol 68 language either. And MIPS's Algol68R and Algol68C were both done by comparatively small groups, although it would probably be fair to say that both compilers did subsets. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 18:28:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 18:28:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10516 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 18:28:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10512 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 18:28:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 18:28:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B6AD619C1F; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BDE519C1C; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E0D019BC5; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1994E19A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <70eb54b6495fcca9e5787eb1068c8ef5@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:27:33 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I know that there was at least one implementation of the full Algol 68 language. It was for the IBM 370 series, called FLACC (Full-Language Algol-68 Check-out Compiler). UBC had it, years ago. No idea how many people it took to do it, though. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 11 18:31:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 11 18:31:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10593 invoked by uid 1020); 11 Oct 2003 18:31:31 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10589 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 18:31:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 18:31:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0DDD19C25; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61E6F19A80; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6ABF219A64; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9141419C1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bleeding edge cd install From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <9bd1a4912836e2a5b0ac6b26c9a56183@cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:29:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>do not work. Fossil and venti are run without /lib/ndb so they >>require numeric ports. a /lib/ndb by itself wouldn't be enough: ndb/cs would be needed as well, or they'd need to do the lookup themselves. (otherwise boot could simply toss something into /net/ndb temporarily until /lib/ndb turned up.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 02:10:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 02:10:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22484 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 02:10:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22480 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 02:10:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 02:10:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B06B19C4B; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35F9319C3D; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADDFE19C17; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 029C219C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2928994284222f805b7639f6dff456ec@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:05:38 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) thanks, russ, this is what i was remembering. i will now return to patiently awaiting your results. :-) if you're interested (at any point), i've got a handfull of OS X boxes i could help test with... or if you'd like an account to work with... of course, i'll be grateful for whatever you produce. FreeBSD and OS X are close enough that i can generally make things work the kernel). thanks again, ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 06:29:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 06:29:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30261 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30257 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 06:29:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C1B0199F4; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C77C419AE0; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B62A6199BB; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66FB1199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (peregrin.orthanc.ca [192.168.42.6]) by orthanc.ca (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BLSYP5026978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 Message-ID: <2147483647.1065886114@[192.168.42.6]> In-Reply-To: <70eb54b6495fcca9e5787eb1068c8ef5@collyer.net> References: <70eb54b6495fcca9e5787eb1068c8ef5@collyer.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:28:34 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Saturday, October 11, 2003 2:27 AM -0700 Geoff Collyer wrote: > I know that there was at least one implementation of the full Algol 68 > language. It was for the IBM 370 series, called FLACC (Full-Language > Algol-68 Check-out Compiler). UBC had it, years ago. No idea how > many people it took to do it, though. As I recall, Chris Thompson from the U of Alberta was either the principal architect or lead programmer (or both) of this project, and the environment was MTS running on the UofA's Amdahl 470. All circa 1982. I have a minimal set of doc for this compiler sitting in a box buried somewhere in the garage ... --lyndon From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 07:04:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 07:04:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31219 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 07:04:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31215 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 07:04:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 07:04:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73ED519C83; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C496819C7A; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:04:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E65619A9E; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F0C519A9E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <8b476aa6a5f52ca0bb94c22b82464288@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:02:54 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old > 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. > You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in > the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. > Thanks Jim, but my situation is same as a@9srv.net. It seems 'ethernet controller' of Latest version 6.1 of VirtualPC for MacOSX is Intel 21041. I really appreciate your effort, Jim... Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 07:19:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 07:19:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31677 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 07:19:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31673 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 07:19:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 07:19:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88C0419C3B; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 901BD19B56; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:19:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E57319C79; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5C0619A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: About screenshots In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:17:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat Oct 11 18:04:52 EDT 2003, arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > > If it says 21041 then it sounds like that is still using the old > > 'hardware' which was replaced in the Windows 5.2 version with a 21140. > > You can probably find the correct list of emulated hardware in > > the tech. ref. document or by searching on the web. > > > Thanks Jim, but my situation is same as a@9srv.net. > It seems 'ethernet controller' of Latest version 6.1 of VirtualPC for > MacOSX > is Intel 21041. > > I really appreciate your effort, Jim... > > Kenji Arisawa Then someone will have to write a driver for the 21041. I don't have a datasheet for that part and I have no 'hardware' to test on. --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 08:40:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 08:40:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1610 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 08:40:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1606 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 08:40:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 08:40:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 335F319C8D; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AD0119BAA; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 577FB19C89; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 658C319C63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:43:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, cruft, debugging, Subject: From: matt To: Subject:, debugging, cruft, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:43:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As much as I appreciate what plan9 is and how it gets maintained I must object to the debugging cruft that is collecting in the source code. It seems I can't fail to stumble across uncommented printfs attempting to diagnose unspecified errors. On the other hand, keep up the good work :) /sys/src/cmd/srv.c void ignore(void *a, char *c) { USED(a); fprint(2, "%s\n", c); if(strcmp(c, "alarm") == 0){ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 08:45:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 08:45:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1764 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 08:45:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1760 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 08:45:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 08:45:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6768E19C81; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9510919C6C; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2CB919C63; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B768719A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94772689fb3d66bc6eb0c230300a708a@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gcsfffoubbrxwawhvtzolnaclo" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:43:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gcsfffoubbrxwawhvtzolnaclo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit object away. point them out and they'll disappear. --upas-gcsfffoubbrxwawhvtzolnaclo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Sat Oct 11 19:40:48 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Sat Oct 11 19:40:45 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A866319C69; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2671919C7D; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:40:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 577FB19C89; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 658C319C63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:43:39 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, cruft, debugging, Subject: From: matt To: Subject:, debugging, cruft, 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:43:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As much as I appreciate what plan9 is and how it gets maintained I must object to the debugging cruft that is collecting in the source code. It seems I can't fail to stumble across uncommented printfs attempting to diagnose unspecified errors. On the other hand, keep up the good work :) /sys/src/cmd/srv.c void ignore(void *a, char *c) { USED(a); fprint(2, "%s\n", c); if(strcmp(c, "alarm") == 0){ --upas-gcsfffoubbrxwawhvtzolnaclo-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 08:48:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 08:48:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1855 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 08:48:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1851 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 08:48:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 08:48:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F03519A66; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 897F419A9E; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:48:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDD6E19C8B; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B927A19C8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <94772689fb3d66bc6eb0c230300a708a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:52:03 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > object away. point them out and they'll disappear. okay, you're on. It'll be something to do on a Sunday afternoon. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 20:13:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 20:13:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21221 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 20:13:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21217 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 20:13:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 20:13:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19BD019A76; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C26519BFD; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D12719B39; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D8A519A76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b5f244af657a398de44be02f5f83ecb@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:17:18 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here's a list of the ^fprints I have found on a fresh pull (with ones that looked kind of legititmate (8) removed) /sys/src/cmd/9nfs/unixnames.c:46: fprint(2, "looking for %lux\n", clientip); /sys/src/cmd/9nfs/unixnames.c:51: fprint(2, "dom is %s\n", dom); /sys/src/cmd/aux/olefs.c:443: fprint(2, "nt nil: create %s: %r\n", buf); /sys/src/cmd/disk/format.c:681: fprint(2, "add %s at clust %lux\n", d->name, x); /sys/src/cmd/ip/imap4d/mbox.c:207: fprint(2, "imap4d at %lud: upas/fs stat of %s/%s aka %s failed: %r\n", time(nil), username, box->name, box->fsDir); /sys/src/cmd/ip/ppp/ppp.c:1307: fprint(2, "remreq\n"); /sys/src/cmd/ip/ppp/ppp.c:1324: fprint(2, "remack\n"); /sys/src/cmd/ip/snoopy/ip6.c:189: fprint(2, "hlen0: %d\n", plen);nstr); /sys/src/cmd/postscript/tr2post/ps_include.c:148: fprint(2, "prolog=(%d,%d)\n", prolog.start, prolog.end); /sys/src/cmd/postscript/tr2post/ps_include.c:149: fprint(2, "page=(%d,%d)\n", page.start, page.end); /sys/src/cmd/postscript/tr2post/ps_include.c:152: fprint(2, "trailer=(%d,%d)\n", trailer.start, trailer.end); /sys/src/cmd/rc/win32.c:248: fprint(2, "forkexec %s", file); /sys/src/cmd/rc/win32.c:250: fprint(2, " %d %d %d\n", sin, sout, serr); /sys/src/cmd/rc/win32.c:254: fprint(2, "forking\n"); /sys/src/cmd/rc/win32.c:271: fprint(2, "execing\n"); /sys/src/cmd/rc/win32.c:273: fprint(2, "exec: %r\n"); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/irix.c:111: fprintf(stderr, "signal %d to %ld; looping\n", s, getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/irix.c:538: fprintf(stderr, "abort %ld\n", getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/linux.c:121: fprintf(stderr, "signal %d to %d; looping\n", s, getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/linux.c:623: fprintf(stderr, "abort %d\n", getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/posix.c:95: fprintf(stderr, "signal %d to %d; looping\n", s, getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/posix.c:563: fprintf(stderr, "abort %d\n", getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/solaris.c:105: fprintf(stderr, "signal %d to %d; looping\n", s, getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/solaris.c:557: fprintf(stderr, "abort %d\n", getpid()); /sys/src/cmd/upas/bayes/msgtok.c:119: fprint(2, "«%s» %.2ux", p, p[0]); /sys/src/cmd/vac/cache.c:335: fprint(2, "cache is full\n"); /sys/src/cmd/vac/cache.c:451: fprint(2, "vtRead failed: %V %d %d: %R\n", score, type, size); /sys/src/cmd/vac/cache.c:637: fprint(2, "block is free %V!\n", v->score); /sys/src/cmd/vac/cache.c:683: fprint(2, "lumpWalk: parent changed under foot\n"); /sys/src/cmd/vac/file.c:1085: fprint(2, "gen mismatch\n"); /sys/src/cmd/vac/source.c:39: fprint(2, "bad flags %#ux %V\n", d.flags, d.score); /sys/src/cmd/vac/srcload.c:93: fprint(2, "deleting\n"); /sys/src/cmd/vac/srcload.c:224: fprint(2, "%lud: %R\n", i); /sys/src/cmd/vac/srcload.c:301: fprint(2, "count = %d top = %d depth=%d maxcount %d\n", cc, n, maxdepth, max); /sys/src/cmd/vac/vac.c:244: fprint(2, "vtSha1Check: n = %d %V %V\n", n, score, score2); /sys/src/cmd/vac/vacfs.c:511: fprint(2, "write failed: %s\n", vtGetError()); /sys/src/cmd/vac/vacfs.c:842: fprint(2, "open fid: %d\n", f->fid); /sys/src/cmd/vac/vactest.c:130: fprint(2, "vac file: %s\n", path2); /sys/src/cmd/venti/checkindex.c:123: fprint(2, "found %lld entries in sorted list\n", found); /sys/src/cmd/venti/dumparena.c:81: fprint(2, "pos = %d\n", pos); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:79: fprint(2, "got %lld clumps - starting sort\n", clumps); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:229: fprint(2, "ib->max = %lld\n", ib->max); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:230: fprint(2, "ib->chunks = %ud\n", ib->chunks); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:323: fprint(2, "%d total = %lld\n", b, ib->bucks[b].total); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:326: fprint(2, "n = %ud\n", n); /sys/src/cmd/venti/sortientry.c:334: fprint(2, "n = %ud\n", n); /sys/src/cmd/venti/ventifs.c:103: fprint(2, "dirsize %d\n", n); /sys/src/cmd/venti/ventifs.c:106: fprint(2, "%d...", i); /sys/src/cmd/venti/ventifs.c:109: fprint(2, "done %p %d %p\n", p, dsize, ep); /sys/src/cmd/vnc/devdraw.c:898: fprint(2, "bad memimaged: %r\n"); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/9proc.c:196: fprint(2, "msgFlush %F\n", &m->t); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/9proc.c:213: fprint(2, "\tmsgFlush found %F\n", &old->t); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:316: fprint(2, "cacheCheck: nheap %d refed %d nblocks %ld\n", c->nheap, refed, c->nblocks); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:475: fprint(2, "_cacheLocal want epoch %ud got %ud\n", epoch, b->l.epoch); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:526: fprint(2, "_cacheLocal want epoch %ud got %ud\n", epoch, b->l.epoch); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c:1048: fprint(2, "unlinkBlock: strange epoch :%ud %ud\n", b->l.epoch, epoch); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/disk.c:306: fprint(2, "diskReadRaw failed: part=%d addr=%ux: %r\n", b->part, b->addr); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/disk.c:314: fprint(2, "diskWriteRaw failed: date=%s part=%d addr=%ux: %r\n", ctime(times(0)), b->part, b->addr); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c:217: fprint(2, "fileOpenSource: dir mismatch %d %d\n", r->dir, dir); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c:946: fprint(2, "fileMetaFlush moving entry from %ud -> %ud\n", f->boff, boff); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c:992: fprint(2, "U\n"); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c:997: fprint(2, "S\n"); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c:1497: fprint(2, "f->elem = %s\n", f->dir.elem); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/fs.c:130: fprint(2, "fsOpen error\n"); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/pack.c:78: fprint(2, "labelUnpack %.2ux %.2ux %.8ux %.8ux %.8ux\n", /sys/src/cmd/fossil/srcload.c:88: fprint(2, "deleting\n"); /sys/src/cmd/fossil/srcload.c:270: fprint(2, "count = %d top = %d depth=%d maxcount %d\n", cc, n, maxdepth, max); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 21:41:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 21:41:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23278 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 21:41:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23274 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 21:41:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 21:41:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B02119C63; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9838F19C84; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C888019C72; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3383719C58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints In-Reply-To: <1b5f244af657a398de44be02f5f83ecb@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:40:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The ones in w32.c will stay, I'm not done writing it yet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 12 23:58:31 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 12 23:58:31 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26793 invoked by uid 1020); 12 Oct 2003 23:58:30 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26789 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2003 23:58:30 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 23:58:30 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85A99199D5; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 957E819B74; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A02C199D5; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B741F1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A8hf4-0000Op-D8 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:57:34 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1537.1065970653.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:57:33 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I really think you want a lot of those fprints. Perhaps instead of removing them they should be fixed up to give more context and thus make sense to more people. If you remove, for example, the fprints in drawterm or in vac, when disaster strikes it will just sit there rather than tell you what happened. I'd rather have it talk to me. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 13 00:40:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 13 00:40:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27632 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Oct 2003 00:40:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27628 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 00:40:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 00:40:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAF9019C99; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D125B19C94; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4183D1998C; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BCB519C95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <319f7b57ae27ffea46fa21aa6e71063c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:39:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) If they're part of the code, unindent them. I'm changing some (not venti/vac) to be syslog's, others I'm putting under debug flags. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 13 01:12:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 13 01:12:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28445 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Oct 2003 01:12:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28441 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 01:12:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 01:12:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C2F219C63; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7EFD919C9C; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:12:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9299719ABB; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E05A819ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints From: matt@proweb.co.uk In-Reply-To: <319f7b57ae27ffea46fa21aa6e71063c@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:15:45 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > If they're part of the code, unindent them. > > I'm changing some (not venti/vac) to be syslog's, others I'm > putting under debug flags. nice one guys objection overuled From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 13 03:17:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 13 03:17:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31387 invoked by uid 1020); 13 Oct 2003 03:17:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31382 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2003 03:17:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 03:17:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7588919CA9; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A53319B66; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:17:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8F9F19C93; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from einstein.ssz.com (unknown [207.200.56.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DD2B19B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ravage@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h9CIOVe24017 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:24:36 -0500 From: Jim Choate To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] six-ty seven ^fprints on the wall, six-ty seven ^fprints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:24:31 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > I really think you want a lot of those fprints. > Perhaps instead of removing them they should be > fixed up to give more context and thus make sense > to more people. > > If you remove, for example, the fprints in drawterm > or in vac, when disaster strikes it will just sit > there rather than tell you what happened. I'd rather > have it talk to me. I'm in here 100%, if it breaks tell me why don't make me go hunt for it. -- -- God exists because mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exist because we can't prove it. Andre Weil, in H. Eves, Mathematical Circles Adieu ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.com www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:01:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:01:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29167 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 18:59:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29163 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 18:59:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 18:59:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49F4719AC8; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFD7019B29; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:59:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 55A6819B1A; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E38319AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f55d9e46a0352445b7c9d406c888dd2@yourdomain.dom> From: steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:58:15 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I too would love to see Plan9 Sparc port reborn - I always had a soft spot for sparcs. There is a good chance I will have a sparc10 today and will donate it to anyone who wants to have a go. If not it will live in my loft until i get around to it or I move house... I am in Winchester in the UK. -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:01:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:01:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31110 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 20:01:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31105 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 20:01:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 20:01:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70BCA19B1A; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8A6119B29; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:01:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8183199FC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12E5F19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Fri Oct 17 06:59:57 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tabs, acme (Oberon) References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:59:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I couldn't find it in my copy of `Project Oberon', but I seem to remember that you could set rulers in the text to change the tab stops. Not that they seem to use it for code. The tab stops defaulted to something like 3 or 4 chars which fit the Swiss coding style. For those who have never read any Wirthian code, it reads like the stuff you see in old papers with ALGOL. IF a > b THEN Display.WriteString("Ooops"; Dislpay.WriteLn END You could also change the color on the fly. That adds more dimension to the coding style problem. And you would see lots of test coditions nested like: IF C = TRUE THEN IF D = TRUE THEN IF E = FALSE THEN something1; something2 ELSE error(4) END ELSE error(3) END ELSE error(2) END They have only four levels of operator precedence in Oberon. And they don't like columns. Seem to think it means you're writing assembler with a list of instructions. But what is a program but a list of instructions? Brantley P. S. Don't get the wrong impression; there are a ton of great ideas in Oberon the language and Oberon the system. I discovered, however, that I'm hopelessly saturated with Unixisms. On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:29:25 +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > what did the Oberon system do with tabs, out > of interest? i'd check its source but > i can't find my copy. i recall (perhaps wrongly) > it using proportional typefaces. > > actually, it's also slightly relevant > to presotto's comment about fancy editors, > because Oberon did store its program text > as a form of structured Text. > not as big, bulky and complex as XML, which > it preceded by many years, and it > worked quite well, with some mildly useful things you > could do with it, so obviously THAT had to go ... > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:11:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:11:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31333 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 20:11:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31329 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 20:11:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 20:11:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E9A119B0B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EFA719B52; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7005319B1C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8134419AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b0b8d6d885c96d1da08079219a84551@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tabs, acme (Oberon) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:10:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I think tab stops should be just that, tab stops. Let's say you have 5, and I'd expect the editor to arrange for them to be equally spaced over the available window width. Of course, I'd also expect to be able to adjust them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:21:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:21:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26045 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 17:34:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26041 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 17:34:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 17:34:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E106B19B10; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FECB19B24; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C24119B11; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDA3F19B10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <227d4bf857cdaf8ae57e31d63cc18579@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] devfs.c and configuration files From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <4a1ac636661a12e0ac4093449e79bc0e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lqnthwuzsbjhjyldhxcobbxqvm" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:33:42 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lqnthwuzsbjhjyldhxcobbxqvm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think those bugs are my fault. Sorry. It seems I exercised a different version of that code, sic. --upas-lqnthwuzsbjhjyldhxcobbxqvm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Oct 16 23:22:42 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB80A19AD5; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB82E19AFE; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:22:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AB6619ADC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D9F819A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a1ac636661a12e0ac4093449e79bc0e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, 9trouble@plan9.bell-labs.com From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] devfs.c and configuration files Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:12 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I tried putting the devfs configuration on disk, but ran into major problems reading it back from there. The diff included fixes a few of those: 1. The config file _must_ begin with "fsdev:\n". This feature is undocumented and not really necessary -- for example it makes the man page example cp /dev/fs/ctl /dev/fd0disk not work at all. I've left it in because I don't know why it was there in the first place. 2. A double free in rdconf() 3. The parser doesn't deal with empty lines -- it will flag an error, the error handling routine will sed 'configed = 1', so the next "bind -a '#k' /dev" will work, just not the first one. We all know how important it is for other Plan 9 utilities that configuration files and scripts end in a newline, so I've changed it to handle it properly. andrey ------ plan9% yesterday -d /sys/src/9/port/devfs.c diff /n/dump/2003/1016/sys/src/9/port/devfs.c /sys/src/9/port/devfs.c 270c270 < error("Bad config"); --- > error("Bad config: should begin with: fsdev\\n"); 276a277,280 > if (e == p) { > e++; > continue; > } 280d283 < free(s); plan9% --upas-lqnthwuzsbjhjyldhxcobbxqvm-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:33:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:33:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28694 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 18:46:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28690 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 18:46:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 18:46:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46E0619B23; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07C5D19AC4; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BE1019AC4; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91016199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e3fc962d37011100c3b48c6a5a38fde@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:42:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) of late i've been assuming context of things i read a lot, and letting that overwrite what the message actually says. it's caused problems. i think my head's broke. so when i read: ...close to having the unix ports running on sparc solaris. somewhere between my eyes and my brain "unix" turned into "plan 9". i got *really* excited for a few seconds. :-( ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:34:21 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:34:21 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26504 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 17:47:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26500 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 17:47:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 17:47:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B192C19B24; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BFBF19B4E; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:47:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08B6E19B24; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E90419B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1AAQ8T-0006tT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Oleg Cherkasov Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:35:21 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I am trying to install Plan9 4th edition on very old laptop IBM 760. After I start from the floppy and my VGA card is not recognized (it was expected) the keyboard is available for a couple of minutes only. It does not matter what I am doing it will stop accept input from the keyboard, even if I do not type anything :-( However plan9 is alive but keyboard is dead. Initially I thought it is a hardware problem but I do not remember any setup I did recently. It was running WinNT without a single problem (but deadly slow) and very recently FreeBDS 4.2, it was no problem at all. I put 'debug=1' into my plan9.ini but it did not help much to reveal the problem. Any ideas? Cheers, Oleg From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 20:43:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 20:43:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32125 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 20:43:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32121 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 20:43:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 20:43:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33EA319B53; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05D9819A10; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:43:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7FBB19B11; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BD8219A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arrl.net (pcp085320pcs.arnysm01.nj.comcast.net[68.46.97.9]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003101711415801400dimfhe>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:41:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3F8FD584.3000507@arrl.net> From: John DeGood User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] My Eu paper, mark 2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:41:56 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Geoff Collyer wrote: > And MIPS's compilers are elephantine, so it's likely that > they had armies working on them. Below is a response from Steve Correll , a member of the original MIPS compiler team. John > You're welcome to attribute this to me if you want to post a followup. > > Today's MIPS compilers may be the product of an army, but for version > 1.0 there was just a platoon (benefiting, of course, from the AT&T > compiler front ends, Berkeley dbx, and various Stanford research > projects): > > Fred Chow - optimizer > Steve Correll - assembler, prof > Kevin Enderby - ld > Steve Hanson - f77, cc > Mark Himelstein - dbx > John Ho - codegen > Earl Killian - codegen, pixie > Larry Weber - assembler From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 21:39:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 21:39:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1314 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1308 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 21:39:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 530E8199FC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E25519B15; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37AEE19B15; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A487519B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:38:27 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Does ctl alt del do anything when its locked up? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 22:04:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 22:04:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2054 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 22:04:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2050 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 22:04:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 22:04:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B125D19AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ABB719B52; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A06E519AD5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amer-bmta03.csc.com (unknown [20.137.252.210]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB01F19AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csc.com (va-fch34.csc.com [20.6.39.227]) by amer-bmta03.csc.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id h9HD2kZ1018527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: From: "Caerwyn B Jones" X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VA-FCH34/SRV/CSC(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 10/17/2003 09:04:20 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:03:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Forward the files to me please. I was about to do the port myself. -Caerwyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 22:31:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 22:31:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2876 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 22:31:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2872 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 22:31:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 22:31:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA47D19AD5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC32619A10; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7981A19AD5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EC9119ADD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HDUdKV017720 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:30:39 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HDUcaE019080 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:30:38 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HDUcb1022292 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:30:38 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) In-Reply-To: <0f55d9e46a0352445b7c9d406c888dd2@yourdomain.dom> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:30:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com wrote: > I too would love to see Plan9 Sparc port reborn - I always had a soft > spot for sparcs. Me too, but let's face it, it's dead. > There is a good chance I will have a sparc10 today and will donate it to > anyone who wants to have a go. If not it will live in my loft until i > get around to it or I move house... I still think the effort that would go into this is way better spent on the K8. Even sun is starting to admit that SPARC is history. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 23:27:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 23:27:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4589 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 23:27:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4585 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 23:27:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 23:27:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 85DEB19A27; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98DF219AF5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:27:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C734D19ADC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B8AF19A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0eb42dc9fcc74fd5b972015645ab4c27@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:18:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // ...let's face it, it's dead. the plan 9 port is dead, and sparc has no future (but isn't actually cold *quite* yet). still, it was fun while it lasted, and i've still got a box or two lying around. and i agree the effort would be better spent elsewhere (hmm... Mac port? ssh2? plenty of large-effort projects), but i would not complain too loudly if a port turned up. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 23:39:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 23:39:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4860 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 23:39:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4856 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 23:39:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 23:39:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C59219B33; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B359319B00; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BB5719AC8; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFE9819AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id A3C2E3938; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 4830D3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from seacaptain.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.54]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1101.199.98.17.54.1066401051.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> References: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've managed to compile most of the port under cygwin. cp Make.FreeBSD-386 Make.CYGWIN_NT-5.0-386 in libthread/label.h, change: #if defined (__i386__) && (defined(__FreeBSD__) || defined(__linux__)) to: #if defined (__i386__) && (defined(__FreeBSD__) || defined(__linux__) || \ defined(__CYGWIN__)) cp asm-Linux-386.s asm-CYGWIN_NT-5.0-386.s in lib9: cp ffork-Darwin.c ffork-CYGWIN_NT-5.0.c cp rendez-Darwin.c rendez-CYGWIN_NT-5.0.c (cygwin provides pthreads, so I'm using that interface) Compiling sam fails, though, with: disk.o(.text+0x27c): In function `diskwrite': /yadda yadda/plan9/src/cmd/sam/disk.c:108: undefined reference to `_pwrite' disk.o(.text+0x31e): In function `diskread': /yadda yadda/plan9/src/cmd/sam/disk.c:120: undefined reference to `_pread' Haven't been able to test anything yet. When a windows port is started, I'll try libdraw under mingw. Some of the rest compiles, but I can't remember which parts. > Kudos to Russ. Seconded. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 17 23:47:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 17 23:47:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5124 invoked by uid 1020); 17 Oct 2003 23:47:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5120 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 23:47:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 23:47:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0F28199E5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6302119AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:47:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA42A19AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20D34199E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 088F83938; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id AF1413937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from seacaptain.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.54]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1109.199.98.17.54.1066401529.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <1101.199.98.17.54.1066401051.squirrel@wish> References: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <1101.199.98.17.54.1066401051.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:38:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've managed to compile most of the port under cygwin. > Haven't been able to test anything yet. Well I have now... cd src/libthread; make tprimes gives a slew of errors. maybe cygwin really doesn't have pthreads (though the headers are there) or it could be a linker problem. I'm getting *lots* of "undefined reference to foo" messages. Anyone have better luck? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 00:14:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 00:14:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6093 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 00:14:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6089 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 00:14:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 00:14:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE3FF19B16; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B01919AE5; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1346119AB9; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24FD019A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h9HFDcL26855 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200310171513.h9HFDcL26855@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > cd src/libthread; make tprimes > gives a slew of errors. maybe cygwin really doesn't have pthreads (though > the headers are there) or it could be a linker problem. I'm getting *lots* > of "undefined reference to foo" messages. Add -lpthread, perhaps? I also had to add -lrt on Solaris, to find sched_yield. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 00:21:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 00:21:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6410 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 00:21:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6406 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 00:21:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 00:21:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE5FE19AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A315119B1C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:21:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C69119A27; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30AE719A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:20:24 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I remember how thrilled I was when I first saw /usr/ports/plan9 on a FreeBSD system -- my first reaction was "woo-hoo, I don't need an extra machine to run Plan 9 on!"... Later on I came to realize that they weren't what I thought they were, and that if I want the real thing I should just get the real thing and use it, not look for a replacement. Now that it seems everybody is happy with porting Plan 9's libs to other operating systems, I'm reminded of these ports again, but not in a good way. You see, I hold the opinion that if Plan 9 becomes a 'niche' OS, one that people run in VMWare or otherwise hosted on top of other systems, it will gradually loose its appeal, and disappear. I believe the same will happen if its libraries were ported elsewhere. Whether Plan 9 libs on lunix are beneficial (to lunix) is also questionable -- it's nice to have libdraw for example, but if not widely adopted it is just a (very small, admittedly) drop of code in the huge sea that is X. Besides, non-9fans have gotten used to looking for familiar things in lunix, and it will be harder to educate them of the _proper_ Plan 9 way in their world, on their turf, than to bring them in ours -- they all end up liking Plan 9 at the end, but that's because they are able to tear off the lunix-built habits by being forced to live in a Plan 9 environment. There is a great deal of opposition to bringing/porting other apps to Plan 9, and I admit I was expecting to see the same opposition to porting Plan 9's libs to other systems: "why would they want it there anyway? throwing pearls before swine!" was going through my head. You see, without the reason to run Plan 9 it'll just become yet another dead operating system, just like Oberon recently discussed -- the ideas from it live here to an extent, but the system itself has long gone... Opinions? Andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 00:37:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 00:37:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7058 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 00:37:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7054 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 00:37:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 00:37:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC08619ADC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AE3819B1C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8F2119AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17AD019A27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Mmmm, I tend to agree. I lived with sam on HPUX under X, then sam under windows/cygwin, until just this year I managed to get real plan9 on my work desktop (hurray!). For me, running plan9 apps under *nix again would be a depressing retrogade step. However being able to write code for and on plan 9 and then just re-compile it with a library for Windows and X11 would be wonderfull. If we could do that using a plan9 hosted gcc cross compiler so much the better (and no I'am not offering :-). That would only leave the web-browser... -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 00:48:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 00:48:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7364 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 00:48:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7360 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 00:48:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 00:48:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E853719A9E; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0E5D19B4C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9A4519A73; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAEFB19AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1517fcd29422934d50617cde10c737c7@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:48:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Opinions? I'm with you, captain. Seeing the libs exported to another OS is like watching the first rat sliding down the anchor lines. Unless, of course, it is to put 9p in there somewhere. The usual outcome is that 90% gets ported and it's the 10% that bites. Will the mantra be "Linux : better plan9 than plan9' ? But it's theit time and effort, they are free to spend it how they choose. Personally I'd settle for fixing Fossil & adding cookies to mothra m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:02:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:02:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7745 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:02:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7741 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:02:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:02:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E1CF19B4C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3128919B5B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:02:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8489B19B10; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nietze.cachelogic.com (unknown [195.74.108.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D9F19B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amavis by nietze.cachelogic.com with scanned-ok (Exim 4.20) id 1AAWrp-0004qx-9X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:50:17 +0100 Received: from plato.saviso.com ([192.168.0.2]) by nietze.cachelogic.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAWrh-0004qq-KH for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:50:09 +0100 Received: from 9fs.org (cronus.saviso.com [192.168.0.86]) by plato.saviso.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9HFxld29231 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:59:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3F9012A1.1080404@9fs.org> From: Nigel Roles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) References: <1517fcd29422934d50617cde10c737c7@juice.thebigchoice.com> In-Reply-To: <1517fcd29422934d50617cde10c737c7@juice.thebigchoice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:02:41 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: >>Opinions? >> >> > >I'm with you, captain. > >Seeing the libs exported to another OS is like watching the first rat sliding down the anchor lines. > > > A dangerous simile I would have thought. According to commonly held belief, rats only do this when the ship is sinking. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:06:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:06:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7852 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:06:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7848 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:06:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:06:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5637419AA1; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2C3A19B52; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72F1519B59; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DC3719B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id h9HG5Po07882 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:05:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200310171605.h9HG5Po07882@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:05:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Opinions? I don't really disagree with anything you say, although you seem to be taking the most pessimistic view of things. For me, the bottom line is utility -- sure, I may be living in a hovel, but I can at least have some nice tools to make life a little less brutish. Not everyone gets to decide what OS they use, and not everyone has "advocate plan 9" at the top of their list of priorities. I think people resist the idea of porting software to plan 9 because there's a certain idealism to the system -- it would be silly to port Mozilla, for instance, because the design of Mozilla is in opposition to the principles of 9. On the other hand, modern Unix seems to be without any such principles, so why not humor those who rely on it for their livelihood. - Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:13:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:13:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8043 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:13:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8039 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:13:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:13:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E06F919B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A60D619B54; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B915119AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D3E819B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: <3F9012A1.1080404@9fs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:14:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >A dangerous simile I would have thought. According to commonly held belief, rats only do this when the ship is sinking. That's exactly why I said it. Once there is no differentiation, plan9 has no reason to live. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8701 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:32:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8697 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:32:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2127F19B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04CC719B60; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2313D19A9E; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CFF219B23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0c737f73c143cf69bebede3c337acd1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:30:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) We need help. We're falling further behind in supported devices. We could use a real browser. We need better C++ support (someone to really finish dave hogan's gnu work). Rsc and I have discussed some possible projects to keep us going with a small number of people: - a way to wrap linux drivers so we could use them in our kernel. We wouldn't want our most important drivers run this way, but it would be nice to quickly get drivers for stuff noone has time to work on. - a native port of X (i.e. one that actually integrates well with plan 9 rather then a straight port). If we're going to get a browser that we can use (or use one on another machine) this is one way to do it. Current browsers may be outside of our philosophy, but who can live without one? - a better POSIX porting environment. 'configure' should at least figure out how to build for us. Ape isn't quite there. - an emulation environment we could run Linux binaries in. I'm less sanguine about this but it might be a quicker way to using stuff from Linux. I've said Linux rather than FreeBSD. I like the latter better but the Linux would be more useful. I'm not pronouncing our effort at the labs dead (we still depend on Plan 9 for a lot of stuff) but it sure is moving a lot slower and the vultures aren't jumping as far away when we throw rocks at them. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:35:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:35:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8806 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:35:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8802 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:35:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:35:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B14719B0B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECDAE19B59; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:35:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB2F419B0B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5436119B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9HGYJha027598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:34:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <7f68bb19aa8d8ecb13d5f53c96524b1a@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:34:31 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Whether Plan 9 libs on lunix are beneficial (to lunix) is also > questionable -- it's nice to have libdraw for example, but if not > widely adopted it is just a (very small, admittedly) drop of code in > the huge sea that is X. Besides, non-9fans have gotten used to > looking for familiar things in lunix, and it will be harder to educate > them of the _proper_ Plan 9 way in their world, on their turf, than to > bring them in ours -- they all end up liking Plan 9 at the end, but > that's because they are able to tear off the lunix-built habits by > being forced to live in a Plan 9 environment. > I think that the cunning idea from Plan9 that one hopes would rub off on other OS'es is the filesystem protocol. I think turning other OSes into servers for various namespaces and then tying them together with something like a 9grids, is the way to go. Drawterm is a good example. > There is a great deal of opposition to bringing/porting other apps to > Plan 9, and I admit I was expecting to see the same opposition to > porting Plan 9's libs to other systems: "why would they want it there > anyway? throwing pearls before swine!" was going through my head. > I think there could be other reasons for this. I would rather program graphics using libdraw because it would be save me time and effort just in dealing with various OS's graphic subsystem complexities. Doing things in libdraw, I would guess, not win the "flashy-eye-candy" contest; but if that is not what you're aiming at, it is okay. > You see, without the reason to run Plan 9 it'll just become yet > another dead operating system, just like Oberon recently discussed -- > the ideas from it live here to an extent, but the system itself has > long gone... Plan9 wont die. That is why it has the bunny. The bunny reproduces fast and can get under fences. So, go forth and multiply ☺ Seriously, I believe that if you could get other OSs to handle 9P, then having a 9grid would enable you to provide a namespace switching mechanism that gives you tighter integration than "visiting web pages" and email. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 01:45:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 01:45:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9012 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 01:45:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9008 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 01:45:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 01:45:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7991419B7C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50FBC19B75; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:45:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C88619B60; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9773C19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhwJR025179 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:58 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhwF2016277 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:58 -0600 Received: from pink.lanl.gov (pink.lanl.gov [128.165.250.188]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhvrp029266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:57 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > You see, without the reason to run Plan 9 it'll just become yet > another dead operating system, just like Oberon recently discussed -- > the ideas from it live here to an extent, but the system itself has > long gone... > > Opinions? I'm with you. Plan 9 apps on Unix will suffer from all the things that are wrong with Unix. It's kind of like Eunice, for all you fogies out there. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 02:02:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 02:02:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9910 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 02:02:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9906 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 02:02:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 02:02:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3469119B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE29019B60; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:02:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 710DD199DE; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0AF919AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8729920c861416829cc369d0a3247e5d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ayszpfzyflwurxlbthoiaiocay" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:01:19 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ayszpfzyflwurxlbthoiaiocay Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the system will stay alive as long as some of us use it. Regarding drivers and the like, it's likely that we get them done as some of us need them. I'll try to help by proposing student projects along the lines suggested by presotto. But wouldn't count on that too much, and right now I dont have the time to pick up those tasks myself, sic. --upas-ayszpfzyflwurxlbthoiaiocay Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Oct 17 18:45:46 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F83319B6B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50FBC19B75; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:45:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C88619B60; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9773C19A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhwJR025179 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:58 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhwF2016277 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:58 -0600 Received: from pink.lanl.gov (pink.lanl.gov [128.165.250.188]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HGhvrp029266 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:57 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:43:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > You see, without the reason to run Plan 9 it'll just become yet > another dead operating system, just like Oberon recently discussed -- > the ideas from it live here to an extent, but the system itself has > long gone... > > Opinions? I'm with you. Plan 9 apps on Unix will suffer from all the things that are wrong with Unix. It's kind of like Eunice, for all you fogies out there. ron --upas-ayszpfzyflwurxlbthoiaiocay-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 02:16:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 02:16:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10367 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 02:16:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10363 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 02:16:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 02:16:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7238419B23; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0DDD19B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2069819B1C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7063019B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id D19C73938; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 616E23937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blinky.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.93]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2621.199.98.16.93.1066410500.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <7f68bb19aa8d8ecb13d5f53c96524b1a@centurytel.net> References: <7f68bb19aa8d8ecb13d5f53c96524b1a@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Steve said: > However being able to write code for and on plan 9 and > then just re-compile it with a library for Windows and > X11 would be wonderfull. Skip Tavakkolian said: > I think there could be other reasons for this. I would rather program > graphics using libdraw because it would be save me time and effort > just in dealing with various OS's graphic subsystem complexities. > Doing things in libdraw, I would guess, not win the "flashy-eye-candy" > contest; but if that is not what you're aiming at, it is okay. Offer people clean, fast libraries and code in general will be improved. "Saving" or "rescuing" Plan 9? The basic benefits of Plan 9 seem to be for the programmer, or for specialized purposes like distributed (flames to /dev/null). The guy who uses my program probably likes WinXP because it "handles multimedia better than previous versions". *I* want to use Plan 9 because it "lets me do what I want to without getting in my way". Hence, the ports. --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 02:26:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 02:26:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10658 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 02:26:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10654 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 02:26:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 02:26:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A03019B1C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43B3E19B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:26:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB28319AA4; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E776319B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HHPR5u021098 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9HHPRbd011014 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id h9HHPN906480 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: <20031017102523.B5199@submarine> References: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:25:23 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Speaking of ports -- I have had this idea for a long time to hack xterm (or rxvt) and make them understand plumbing the way rio does. It shouldn't be too hard, and I'm just curious whether somebody else has thought of it already. Comments ? Thanks, Roman. On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 10:53:33PM -0400, Richard C Bilson wrote: > To avoid unnecessary duplication of effort, let me note that I'm very > close to having the unix ports running on sparc solaris. > > It's been pretty straightforward -- most of what I have so far was > done in an afternoon. Right now, however, my threads crap out on the > first call to a shared library. I may have to spend some time > learning more about the dynamic linker than I ever wanted to know > (although, it's possible that I've simply misread the abi *again*). > > If anyone feels like poking at it I can send files and diffs. > > Kudos to Russ. The ports are already making life better for me on > Linux/386. > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 02:59:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 02:59:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11949 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 02:59:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11945 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 02:59:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 02:59:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DB4C19B7D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A885619B5B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:59:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CAFB19B62; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D1919B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26e726e0a6e928fd22b28b5d740a55f9@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: <20031017102523.B5199@submarine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:00:25 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > make them understand plumbing the way rio does. rio doesn't understand plumbing From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 03:07:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 03:07:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12187 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 03:07:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12183 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 03:07:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 03:07:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 251B519A27; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C49A219B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:07:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7E4419B52; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E933519A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.154.35]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HI6RPh007320 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9HI6RoV014451 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id h9HI6MD06851 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: <20031017110622.A6663@submarine> References: <20031017102523.B5199@submarine> <26e726e0a6e928fd22b28b5d740a55f9@juice.thebigchoice.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <26e726e0a6e928fd22b28b5d740a55f9@juice.thebigchoice.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:06:22 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 07:00:25PM +0100, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > make them understand plumbing the way rio does. > > rio doesn't understand plumbing sure it does -- otherwise you won't be able to select something and tell it "plumb this". Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 03:22:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 03:22:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12498 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 03:22:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12494 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 03:22:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 03:22:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCE8219AA1; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07FCC19B5B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 101CD19AE7; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amer-bmta03.csc.com (AMER-BMTA03.csc.com [20.137.252.210]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49BD519ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csc.com (va-fch34.csc.com [20.6.39.227]) by amer-bmta03.csc.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id h9HIL9Z1026101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: From: "Caerwyn B Jones" X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VA-FCH34/SRV/CSC(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 10/17/2003 02:22:42 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:21:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm just curious whether somebody > else has thought of it already. My 9term and sam on unix have plumbing and mouse chording, but these use the old libXg. I'll try this weekend to get the 9pm 9term working with the new libdraw, and include plumbing and chording. The tricky bit is to get the current working directory of the shell. On Solaris it's possible to use /proc/n/cwd to find it out. There's probably an equivalent on Linux. It's worth doing because it makes the user interface so much more fluid. -Caerwyn From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 03:57:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 03:57:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13493 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13489 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 03:57:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A16BD19B16; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEA5919B4C; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:57:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 760D619B23; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7EA419AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Fri Oct 17 14:55:49 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 References: <7f68bb19aa8d8ecb13d5f53c96524b1a@centurytel.net> <2621.199.98.16.93.1066410500.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2621.199.98.16.93.1066410500.squirrel@wish> User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:55:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In the early 1980's, you folks in the labs trashed the VAX kernel and replaced it with 4.1a (or c or something). You poked around in the kernel, trowing away some stuff, adding new stuff like streams and netb and stuff. On top you ran very clean stuff. This was done because you saw that for that hardware the BSD kernel was more useful. Can we do that with Linux and the plan9 stuff? Can we replace X windows altogether with a libdraw interface? Can the binding that Linux currently does me bent into shape? Can we have a Linux kernel base system that doesn't have commands with so many options that each command has built in man pages in the form of --help? Can we have a real Unix system and not a GNU one? Just a thought. Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 04:04:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 04:04:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13615 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 04:04:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13611 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 04:04:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 04:04:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFB7219A5E; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F44219B10; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:04:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C64D19AA1; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41C0619A5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0407584e7b912f9c233dad885d15ac94@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:05:26 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Can we have a real Unix system and not a GNU one? we have one : plan9 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:18:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:18:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15695 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:18:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15691 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:18:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:18:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DCA719B6B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EAD619B42; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C463B19ABB; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2381D19A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 318A666B4F; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031017201737.GT834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <8729920c861416829cc369d0a3247e5d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8729920c861416829cc369d0a3247e5d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:17:37 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 07:01:19PM +0200, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: ... > Regarding drivers and the like, it's likely that we get them done as some of us > need them. ... How else do drivers get written? :) That's exactly why I wrote the 48-bit LBA support for the ATA driver. I needed it. I would like a better multimedia subsystem so I don't have to use a MacOS or Windows to produce music, so I'm trying to work on that. I would like better SCSI controller support, so when I have the time (and no one beats me to it) I'll work on that. My point is that Plan 9 isn't dead as long as we keep developing it, which some of us are doing. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:18:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:18:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15723 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:18:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15718 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:18:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:18:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CE6119B5B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A93B19B42; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC70D19A03; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCE7D19A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HKHXJR000423 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HKHXaE027371 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:33 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HKHXrp004724 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Brantley Coile wrote: > In the early 1980's, you folks in the labs trashed the VAX > kernel and replaced it with 4.1a (or c or something). You > poked around in the kernel, trowing away some stuff, adding > new stuff like streams and netb and stuff. On top you > ran very clean stuff. This was done because you saw > that for that hardware the BSD kernel was more useful. If you look in v9fs there is a toy thing I had in there called 9sys, which was a first cut at a system call interface in linux to plan 9 system calls. It was going to look like Plan 9 outside, but ride on top of linux kernel internals, and use v9fs for 9p transport. Step 1 was to get the Plan 9 system calls in. Step two was to remove the Linux system calls. I started this before Plan 9 license got fixed, and stopped it at that time. I'd still rather work with a real plan 9 kernel. There's so much baggage in Linux I don't want to deal with. I would rather put my efforts into making plan 9 a bigger deal. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:21:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:21:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15841 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:21:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15837 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:21:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:21:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C9CD19B59; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB9FC19B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:21:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3224019A19; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89B3119B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F21E466B4F; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031017202039.GU834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:20:39 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 02:17:32PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > > I'd still rather work with a real plan 9 kernel. There's so much baggage > in Linux I don't want to deal with. I would rather put my efforts into > making plan 9 a bigger deal. Pretty much the point of my most recent post worded better. :) -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:28:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:28:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16108 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:28:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16104 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:28:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:28:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75B2B199C0; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 939B719B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F352199C0; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34DC819A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Fri Oct 17 16:26:34 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:26:30 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:17:32 -0600 (MDT), ron minnich wrote: > I'd still rather work with a real plan 9 kernel. There's so much baggage in Linux I don't want to deal with. I would rather put my efforts into making plan 9 a bigger deal. Can this be done without having to make a branch of the Linux kernel? The Linux baggage is just the cost of having most hardware supported. Can most of the Linux kernel be look--don't touch? Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:37:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:37:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16229 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:37:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16225 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:37:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:37:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C17919B61; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5973019B59; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A80AB199E6; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.74.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A8F319A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Oct 2003 22:33:58 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9HKZiTs022090 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:35:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id VAA10215 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:35:48 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: <20031017213548.H23130@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from cjones83@csc.com on Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 02:21:22PM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:35:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 02:21:22PM -0400, Caerwyn B Jones wrote: > > The tricky bit is to get the current working directory of the shell. > On Solaris it's possible to use /proc/n/cwd to find it out. There's > probably an equivalent on Linux. Well from the below, it's similar. I believe that readlink() on /proc/n/cwd (for linux) will get what you want. I'm not sure what one does on solaris. DF Solaris: $ ls -l /proc/$$ total 2717 -rw------- 1 dfawcus 2752512 Oct 16 19:09 as -r-------- 1 dfawcus 152 Oct 16 19:09 auxv -r-------- 1 dfawcus 36 Oct 16 19:09 cred --w------- 1 dfawcus 0 Oct 16 19:09 ctl lr-x------ 1 dfawcus 0 Oct 16 19:09 cwd -> dr-x------ 2 dfawcus 8208 Oct 16 19:09 fd -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus 120 Oct 16 19:09 lpsinfo -r-------- 1 dfawcus 912 Oct 16 19:09 lstatus -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus 536 Oct 16 19:09 lusage dr-xr-xr-x 3 dfawcus 48 Oct 16 19:09 lwp -r-------- 1 dfawcus 2304 Oct 16 19:09 map dr-x------ 2 dfawcus 544 Oct 16 19:09 object -r-------- 1 dfawcus 2776 Oct 16 19:09 pagedata -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus 336 Oct 16 19:09 psinfo -r-------- 1 dfawcus 2304 Oct 16 19:09 rmap lr-x------ 1 dfawcus 0 Oct 16 19:09 root -> -r-------- 1 dfawcus 1440 Oct 16 19:09 sigact -r-------- 1 dfawcus 1232 Oct 16 19:09 status -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus 256 Oct 16 19:09 usage -r-------- 1 dfawcus 0 Oct 16 19:09 watch -r-------- 1 dfawcus 3648 Oct 16 19:09 xmap Linux: ; ls -l /proc/$pid total 0 -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 cmdline lrwxrwxrwx 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 cwd -> /home/dfawcus -r-------- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 environ lrwxrwxrwx 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 exe -> /usr/packages/rc-1.6b3/bin/rc-el dr-x------ 2 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 fd -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 maps -rw------- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 mem lrwxrwxrwx 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 root -> / -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 stat -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 statm -r--r--r-- 1 dfawcus dfawcus 0 Oct 17 21:28 status From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:42:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:42:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16348 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:42:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16344 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:42:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:42:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DA5719B61; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDDD619A19; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 55CAA19A8D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5972519A8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 90FB766B4F; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:41:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) Message-ID: <20031017204106.GV834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <0f55d9e46a0352445b7c9d406c888dd2@yourdomain.dom> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:41:06 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 07:30:38AM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com wrote: > > > I too would love to see Plan9 Sparc port reborn - I always had a soft > > spot for sparcs. > > Me too, but let's face it, it's dead. > > > There is a good chance I will have a sparc10 today and will donate it to > > anyone who wants to have a go. If not it will live in my loft until i > > get around to it or I move house... > > I still think the effort that would go into this is way better spent on > the K8. Even sun is starting to admit that SPARC is history. I have a quad processor SPARC 20 that I was going to use to revive the SPARC port, but my most recent feelings are the same as ron's. As much as I loved it, SPARC is dead. Along the same lines, Alpha is dead (and rotting), too. All the world's an x86 or PowerPC. Not including embedded devices. ;) -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:45:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:45:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16389 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:45:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16385 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:45:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:45:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 876C719A19; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AED5719A8D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:45:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B421A19A19; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CECA19B55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:41:12 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>The Linux baggage is just the cost of having most hardware supported. not really: it's fundamentally flawed. to be fair, i haven't looked at 2.6 yet, though i've got it on DVD (!) but for the five (different) versions i've got, even the #include files are barely finite, you need to wade through chains of #ifn?def to work out what applies in your case, x86 is deeply embedded(!) in surprising ways, and all in all it's depressing when it's not awful. the aim of implementing an operating system (or graphics subsystem) is to try to help control complexity, not create it. The difference between a computer scientist and a hacker is that the computer scientist knows what an exponential is. -MD McIlroy From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 05:55:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 05:55:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16586 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 05:55:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16582 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 05:55:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 05:55:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 255D319B6B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 595C419B85; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD96419A8D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6910F19AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 205.185.197.105 ([205.185.197.105]) by edsac; Fri Oct 17 16:54:11 EDT 2003 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 References: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed From: Brantley Coile Organization: Prepay Network Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.11/Win32 M2 build 2887 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:41:12 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: >>> The Linux baggage is just the cost of having most hardware supported. > > not really: it's fundamentally flawed. I just meant that putting up with the Linux mess is the cost of not having to write all the drivers for everything. I didn't mean that the kernel's state was `natural.' I agree with everything you said. Can't we fix the include files and still not be trapped supporting the 2M+lines of kernel code? Brantley From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 06:15:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 06:15:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17220 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 06:15:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17216 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 06:15:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 06:15:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7BAA19B0B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F09219B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:15:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C148C19A99; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8B3619B16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51f683cdb4e39b1056b9e28e21e019d6@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: <20031017110622.A6663@submarine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:16:00 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Maybe I should read the ported libs Perhaps I interpret your 'understand' too deeply. #include Plumbmsg *m; m = emalloc(sizeof(Plumbmsg)); .. fill m plumbsend(fd, m) m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 06:37:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 06:37:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17840 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 06:37:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17836 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 06:37:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 06:37:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3146C19B80; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 535EF19B85; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 483FB199DE; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C59019B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.154.35]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9HLahPh007171 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9HLahoV023491 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id h9HLacB10948 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:36:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031017143638.B10499@submarine> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:36:38 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 02:17:32PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Brantley Coile wrote: > > > In the early 1980's, you folks in the labs trashed the VAX > > kernel and replaced it with 4.1a (or c or something). You > > poked around in the kernel, trowing away some stuff, adding > > new stuff like streams and netb and stuff. On top you > > ran very clean stuff. This was done because you saw > > that for that hardware the BSD kernel was more useful. > > I'd still rather work with a real plan 9 kernel. There's so much baggage > in Linux I don't want to deal with. I would rather put my efforts into > making plan 9 a bigger deal. I always wanted to see how many applications would break if I were to, lets say, disable shared memory from SysV API. It could be a nice experiment to do on a live contemporary distro -- just pick a set of obscure interfaces and see how many applications are really using any of it. Thanks, Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 07:20:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 07:20:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18957 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 07:20:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18953 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 07:20:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 07:20:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B17219B76; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F1BF19B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:20:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD8541998A; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D6A19B53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMInJR022288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:49 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMImF2002758 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:48 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMImI6009104 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:48 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:18:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Brantley Coile wrote: > wrote: > > I'd still rather work with a real plan 9 kernel. There's so much > > baggage in Linux I don't want to deal with. I would rather put my > > efforts into making plan 9 a bigger deal. > > Can this be done without having to make a branch of the Linux kernel? I was not doing it as a branch, but as a module. Part of the fun was it really made me think more about how Plan 9 has to do things -- so it was educational. I had trivial instances of bind etc. trivially working for trivial things, but then I was able to stop ... I only did this when I despaired of seeing the license change. That's been fixed. The goal was to at some point remove all the standard Linux system calls. I had no interest in co-existence. > The Linux baggage is just the cost of having most hardware supported. > Can most of the Linux kernel be look--don't touch? Now that inferno has opened up why not just use inferno on linux? One thing that would be a step forward would be to have a plan 9 distro that included all the inferno stuff too. Mainly a packaging thing I guess. But the plan 9/inferno split seems unnecessary (to me anyway). The main reactions I see to Plan 9 are - "I don't get the window manager" - "Where's emacs" - "Where's the browser" - "How do I handle PCMCIA and USB" I still think the last is the biggest deal. Hot-plug is really needed. It would be nice to do it somehow better than the zillions of kernel modules I see in linux: Module Size Used by Tainted: PF eepro100 19824 1 supermon_proc 12416 0 symdm 1876 0 [supermon_proc] vmnet 24704 7 vmmon 23636 4 prism2_pci 99656 1 (autoclean) p80211 25460 1 (autoclean) [prism2_pci] radeon 95736 1 agpgart 39168 3 binfmt_misc 6916 1 autofs 10980 0 (autoclean) (unused) ds 8256 2 yenta_socket 11968 2 pcmcia_core 47008 0 [ds yenta_socket] usb-uhci 24292 0 (unused) usbcore 68576 1 [usb-uhci] ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 07:55:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 07:55:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19668 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 07:55:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19664 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 07:55:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 07:55:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1686519B42; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26A7419B6B; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9879419B60; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98123199F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMs2JR028964 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:02 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMs1F2011626 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9HMs1I6010257 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:01 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] a problem I don't understand on a reinstall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:54:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > first, use the bleeding-edge cd-rom, > just in case it has a fix that you need. > (but i doubt it does). No, I was using that CDROM and still saw the 'historical partitions'. > when you get into the install at the beginning, > draw a new window and > > cp /dev/zero /dev/sdC0/data That did it. There's nothing like splating the disk with zeros to clean up things. Nice, clean oxide oersteds. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 08:39:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 08:39:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20701 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 08:39:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20697 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 08:39:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 08:39:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0CBD19995; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E5AA19B6D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8893119995; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AEF219A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:38:41 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) But 4.1BSD was much closer to V7 and 32V than Linux is to Plan 9. Berkeley had added some optimisations (real and imagined) and `poked dirty fingers all over previously clean code' (I believe that's a quote from Ken). I think the Linux kernel is hopeless and I don't want to run it: ignoring its size, complexity and ugliness, it's just too buggy and poorly designed. The thought of storing files that I value in a file system implemented on top of that kernel makes me queasy. It might be possible to construct a cage such that Linux drivers could be compiled and run in Plan 9 kernels without causing too much damage to the running system. I'd like to have a full-time person keeping up with new hardware (processors and peripherals mainly), but I don't know how to fund such a person. Much of the code could be shared with Inferno, so that might help. More later. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 08:55:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 08:55:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21236 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 08:55:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21232 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 08:55:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 08:55:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC03F19A8D; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50A1919B86; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:55:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5516B19B55; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.0.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7EFEB199FC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19499 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 23:54:40 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-66-224.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.66.224) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 23:54:40 -0000 Message-ID: <01af01c3950a$64b08f10$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200310170253.h9H2rIx25396@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> <1101.199.98.17.54.1066401051.squirrel@wish> <1109.199.98.17.54.1066401529.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:57:01 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) you'll find somewhere in the cygwin pthread headers a comment along the lines of "we don't really support pthreads because we can't swap stacks". i didn't look into it any further. brucee > cd src/libthread; make tprimes > gives a slew of errors. maybe cygwin really doesn't have pthreads (though > the headers are there) or it could be a linker problem. I'm getting *lots* > of "undefined reference to foo" messages. > > Anyone have better luck? > > --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 10:33:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 10:33:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24955 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 10:33:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24951 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 10:33:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 10:33:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D43D919B85; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA30D19B80; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:33:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E317019A8F; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26D7D19B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.67.67]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003101801323101100gmbcbe>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: <3F90958F.7040300@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:21:19 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Geoff Collyer wrote: > I'd like to have a full-time person keeping up with new hardware > (processors and peripherals mainly), but I don't know how to fund such > a person. Much of the code could be shared with Inferno, so that > might help. Probably do it all in India??? Just kidding :-) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 12:45:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 12:45:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30939 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 12:45:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30935 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 12:45:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 12:45:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DB9519AA1; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C66919B92; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 845A419AFC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com [211.9.230.145]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 875B719B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:44:46 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--ScanMail--485E040056" From: virus-alert@wakwak.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20031018124439_485E040056_0@vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com> Subject: [9fans] [message from WAKWAK virus detect system] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:39 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----ScanMail--485E040056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp $B#W#A#K#W#A#K%&%$%k%98!CN%7%9%F%`$K$h$j!"$3$N%a!<%k$K%&%$%k%9$,(B $B46@w$7$F$$$k$3$H$,8!=P$5$l$^$7$?$N$G!"%&%$%k%9$r6n=|$7$^$7$?$,!"(B $B0lIt$N%U%!%$%k$,6n=|IT2DG=$J%&%$%k%9$K46@w$7$F$$$^$7$?$N$G!"(B $B3:Ev%U%!%$%k$r:o=|$7$F!"%a!<%k$r$*FO$1$$$?$7$^$7$?!#(B ($B:o=|$5$l$?%U%!%$%k$O!"(BDELETED#.txt$B$KCV49$($^$7$?!#(B) $BAw?.!'(Binstaller426.exe $B%&%#%k%9L>!'(BW32.Swen.A@mm [$B$4Cm0U(B] $B!&%a!<%k$NFbMF$K$D$-$^$7$F$O!"#W#A#K#W#A#K$K$F3NG'$9$k$3$H$,(B $B=PMh$^$;$s$N$G!">e5-!VAw?.l9g$O!"%&%$%k%9$K$h$jAw?.85(B $B!!$N%a!<%k%"%I%l%9$,56Au$5$l$F$$$k2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#$=$N$h(B $B!!$&$J>l9g$O!VAw?.e$2$k$3$H$,$G$-$^(B $B$;$s$N$G!"$4N;>5$/$@$5$$!#(B WAKWAK Virus Detect System has found the file which is infected with coumputer virus on the e-mail you recieved. The virus was exterminated, but some files infected with unexterminable virus was removed. (Deleted files were replaced to DELETED#.txt) *sender: guillaume@ap.wakwak.com *infected file name: installer426.exe *virus name: W32.Swen.A@mm [Attention] # If you need to know about the e-mail content, Please make a contact to the sender. WAKWAK can not check the e-mail content. # If you do not have any idea who the sender is, there is a possibility that the e-mail address of a sender is camouflaged by the virus. In that case, please do not make contact to the sender about the virus. # This message is sent automatically by WAKWAK viruis detect system. Even if you reply to this e-mail, WAKWAK can not answer the question. [internet header of the e-mail is shown below] Received: from ap.wakwak.com (ap.wakwak.com [211.9.230.132]) by vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485E040056; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vnapzwrj (z27.61-193-211.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp [61.193.211.27]) by ap.wakwak.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/2003-09-30) with SMTP/inet id h9I3hxcE012107; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:43:59 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from guillaume@ap.wakwak.com) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:43:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200310180343.h9I3hxcE012107@ap.wakwak.com> From: "Network Security Department" To: "Consumer" SUBJECT: latest patch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jhytixsrnypy" ----ScanMail--485E040056 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from ap.wakwak.com (ap.wakwak.com [211.9.230.132]) by vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485E040056; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vnapzwrj (z27.61-193-211.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp [61.193.211.27]) by ap.wakwak.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/2003-09-30) with SMTP/inet id h9I3hxcE012107; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:43:59 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from guillaume@ap.wakwak.com) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:43:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200310180343.h9I3hxcE012107@ap.wakwak.com> From: "Network Security Department" To: "Consumer" SUBJECT: latest patch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jhytixsrnypy" --jhytixsrnypy Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="vfpfdzqhcpcwue"; type="multipart/alternative" --vfpfdzqhcpcwue Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="jopkngilaqr" --jopkngilaqr Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MS Consumer this is the latest version of security update, the "October 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which fixes all known security vulnerabilities affecting MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express. Install now to help protect your computer from these vulnerabilities. This update includes the functionality = of all previously released patches. System requirements: Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP This update applies to: - MS Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later - MS Outlook, version 8.00 and later - MS Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later Recommendation: Customers should install the patch = at the earliest opportunity. How to install: Run attached file. Choose Yes on displayed dialog box. How to use: You don't need to do anything after installing this item. Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles = can be found on the Microsoft Technical Support web site. http://support.microsoft.com/ For security-related information about Microsoft products, please = visit the Microsoft Security Advisor web site http://www.microsoft.com/security/ Thank you for using Microsoft products. Please do not reply to this message. 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    this is the latest version of security update, the "October 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which fixes all known security vulnerabilities affecting MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express. Install now to help protect your computer from these vulnerabilities. This update includes the functionality = of all previously released patches.


     System requirements Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP
     This update applies to MS Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later
    MS Outlook, version 8.00 and later
    MS Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later
     Recommendation Customers should install the patch = at the earliest opportunity.
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     How to use You don't need to do = anything after installing this item.

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----ScanMail--485E040056-- --vfpfdzqhcpcwue;type=multipart/alternative-- --jhytixsrnypy-- ----ScanMail--485E040056-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 12:46:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 12:46:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30975 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 12:46:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30971 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 12:46:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 12:46:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39E4919BB4; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20AF619B93; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:46:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03F4D19B9A; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com [211.9.230.145]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8CAA719B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:45:41 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--ScanMail--B494940056" From: virus-alert@wakwak.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20031018124540_B494940056_50@vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com> Subject: [9fans] [message from WAKWAK virus detect system] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:45:40 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----ScanMail--B494940056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp $B#W#A#K#W#A#K%&%$%k%98!CN%7%9%F%`$K$h$j!"$3$N%a!<%k$K%&%$%k%9$,(B $B46@w$7$F$$$k$3$H$,8!=P$5$l$^$7$?$N$G!"%&%$%k%9$r6n=|$7$^$7$?$,!"(B $B0lIt$N%U%!%$%k$,6n=|IT2DG=$J%&%$%k%9$K46@w$7$F$$$^$7$?$N$G!"(B $B3:Ev%U%!%$%k$r:o=|$7$F!"%a!<%k$r$*FO$1$$$?$7$^$7$?!#(B ($B:o=|$5$l$?%U%!%$%k$O!"(BDELETED#.txt$B$KCV49$($^$7$?!#(B) $BAw?.!'(Bhsserq.exe $B%&%#%k%9L>!'(BW32.Swen.A@mm [$B$4Cm0U(B] $B!&%a!<%k$NFbMF$K$D$-$^$7$F$O!"#W#A#K#W#A#K$K$F3NG'$9$k$3$H$,(B $B=PMh$^$;$s$N$G!">e5-!VAw?.l9g$O!"%&%$%k%9$K$h$jAw?.85(B $B!!$N%a!<%k%"%I%l%9$,56Au$5$l$F$$$k2DG=@-$,$4$6$$$^$9!#$=$N$h(B $B!!$&$J>l9g$O!VAw?.e$2$k$3$H$,$G$-$^(B $B$;$s$N$G!"$4N;>5$/$@$5$$!#(B WAKWAK Virus Detect System has found the file which is infected with coumputer virus on the e-mail you recieved. The virus was exterminated, but some files infected with unexterminable virus was removed. (Deleted files were replaced to DELETED#.txt) *sender: guillaume@ap.wakwak.com *infected file name: hsserq.exe *virus name: W32.Swen.A@mm [Attention] # If you need to know about the e-mail content, Please make a contact to the sender. WAKWAK can not check the e-mail content. # If you do not have any idea who the sender is, there is a possibility that the e-mail address of a sender is camouflaged by the virus. In that case, please do not make contact to the sender about the virus. # This message is sent automatically by WAKWAK viruis detect system. Even if you reply to this e-mail, WAKWAK can not answer the question. [internet header of the e-mail is shown below] Received: from ap.wakwak.com (ap.wakwak.com [211.9.230.132]) by vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B494940056; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:45:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vysu (z27.61-193-211.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp [61.193.211.27]) by ap.wakwak.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/2003-09-30) with SMTP/inet id h9I3ixcE012247; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:59 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from guillaume@ap.wakwak.com) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200310180344.h9I3ixcE012247@ap.wakwak.com> From: "Storage System" To: "Network Recipient" SUBJECT: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="gsgyuuauuwsykxj" ----ScanMail--B494940056 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from ap.wakwak.com (ap.wakwak.com [211.9.230.132]) by vckyb2.nw.wakwak.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B494940056; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:45:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vysu (z27.61-193-211.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp [61.193.211.27]) by ap.wakwak.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/2003-09-30) with SMTP/inet id h9I3ixcE012247; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:59 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from guillaume@ap.wakwak.com) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:44:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200310180344.h9I3ixcE012247@ap.wakwak.com> From: "Storage System" To: "Network Recipient" SUBJECT: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="gsgyuuauuwsykxj" --gsgyuuauuwsykxj Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    Undeliverable message to gkerlxl@rocketmail.net --gsgyuuauuwsykxj Content-Type: text/plain; name="DELETED0.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Id: ZmlsZSBhdHRhY2htZW50OiBoc3NlcnEuZXhlDQoNClRoZSBmaWxlIGF0dGFjaGVkIHRvIHRo aXMgZW1haWwgd2FzIHJlbW92ZWQgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpcyBpbmZlY3RlZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBX MzIuU3dlbi5BQG1tIHZpcnVzLg0K --gsgyuuauuwsykxj-- ----ScanMail--B494940056-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 17:32:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 17:32:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6527 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 17:32:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6523 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 17:32:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 17:32:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D72719AE0; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53C6319B0B; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:32:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43D1B19ADB; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E745E19A28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:27:35 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>It might be possible to construct a cage such that Linux drivers could >>be compiled and run in Plan 9 kernels without causing too much damage >>to the running system. i'd have thought it would be harder to encapsulate the drivers than user-level code, but since no one has tried, we don't really know. one result of attempting it would be a possibly useful comparison between Linux and Plan 9 kernel internals and interfaces. (currently, my favourite examples are drivers for non-x86 platforms that must produce x86-defined values for higher levels.) the Linux driver interfaces are supposed to have changed significantly in 2.6 according to the Linux glossy magazine i bought recently. i haven't yet looked at the code. the catch in using 2.6 as a basis is that i suspect many drivers haven't been converted. either that, or there's nothing to convert because it hasn't really changed. for useful drivers, is xBSD really well behind Linux? i'd have thought encapsulating a BSD one would be easier, if it's possible at all, if only because BSD started with a Unix model so the pitfalls are fairly obvious to start with. perhaps more to the point, which missing drivers in particular have provoked the crisis? has it just built up? Linux itself is having trouble with hot plugging things, if my recent experience with Redhat is any guide. actually, it was cold plugging things: i had to take one card out because it couldn't drive it at all and put in a card that i thought it could drive (sound familiar?). admittedly i got it to work in the end but only because i kept thumping it and correcting it each time it went wrong. (``which ethernet was that again?'' i don't know: you've got the PCI vendor/device ID database! look it up!) it was worse than Windows. Windows seems to specialises in drivers that must (or must not) be installed before (or after) installing the device. read the bits of paper carefully! don't panic! don't hit the computer! ``i've already given you the bloody driver disk! THERE IS THE DRIVER!'' (my 2000 hasn't really recovered from the Bluetooth experience. i myself have barely recovered.) i can only assume there are nasty things to sort out that are hard to get right that we've avoided only because we haven't done this sort of thing. either that or there are surprisingly many twits writing code. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 17:50:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 17:50:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6882 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 17:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6875 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 17:50:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 17:50:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F8A519AE2; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEB7519B74; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:50:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1987F19AC6; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 163BE19A99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:48:27 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > either that or there > are surprisingly many twits writing code. Why surprisingly? Sturgeon's Law applies to software too. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 20:10:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 20:10:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9468 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 20:10:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9464 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 20:10:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 20:10:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACAF519B9D; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE53619B83; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:10:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 013D819B95; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EDF219B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:09:18 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) There are obvious driver interface mismatches between Linux and Plan 9. Linux has ioctl, mmap and select entry points; Plan 9 drivers present a file system interface. I think we can ignore mmap and select, and probably some sort of class drivers can provide the glue between a file system interface and the Linux drivers, including turning I/O on ctl files into calls on the ioctl entry points, though I don't know if they are sufficiently standardised across drivers for that to work with tweaks for each Linux driver. My impression is that Linux has more drivers because it has more contributors. Here are some numbers from systems I have access to. RedHat 7.3: ; pwd /usr/src/linux-2.4/drivers ; du -sk 98820 . ; du -a | wc -l 4149 OpenBSD 3.3: ; pwd /usr/src/sys ; du -sk scsi arch/i386/isa arch/i386/eisa arch/i386/pci | addup 1 946 ; du -a scsi arch/i386/isa arch/i386/eisa arch/i386/pci | wc -l 106 The Linux numbers look incredible (and they exclude object files), but they've got busy little typists working for them: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 632394 Sep 7 2001 qlogicfc_asm.c -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 741668 Aug 18 11:33 advansys.c I drew up a list of obvious drivers that one could write: Adaptec PCI SCSI; various gigabit Ethernet cards; USB, Bluetooth and Firewire generic (protocol), device class and controller drivers; flash memory widgets; random sound chipsets; random VGA chipsets; and perhaps serial ATA. I must admit that I'm not currently in need of any of these, though that could change if I bought a laptop. Some of these may just be checklist items that would make people feel warm and fuzzy, but also probably some people could make use of others (notably VGA and ether). As for C++, X and configure, my sense is that implementing X (even from scratch) will add a lot of bulk to the system and I wonder how much use it would get other than web browsing (about which, see below). C++ is another source of bulk. Is there a cfront-like C++-to-C translator extant for the current version of C++? I've been pretty happy with vnc to Unix machines that also run u9fs for web browsing (I use a private 100Gb/s Ethernet for this). Likewise, when I need to use some GNUware, it's much simpler to just install it on a Unix system and access it remotely. I think trying to make GNUware runnable out of the box will contort the system until it looks like a GNUish lunix system (e.g. Linux). I installed the latest Bochs emulator last night; this is the size of its configure script: ; wc bochs/configure 23851 84792 701647 bochs/configure The sheer size of configure scripts is bad enough, but they are stuffed full of bad AI and knowledge of lunix path names and other intimate details. Some examples: if your C compiler is named pcc, configure won't find it and will quit; if your C compiler generates .8 files instead of .o files, configure will quit; if your include files aren't in /usr/include, configure won't find them. configure does all this sniffing and probing to determine things that are largely irrelevant to its real job, which seems to be converting prototype makefiles into usable makefiles and guessing at the local OS configuration, but if any of a long list of tests fail, it just quits and leaves you unable to even try to run make. For simple programs, "cc -I. *.c" usually works, but sometimes the authors have provided complicated trees of include files that have to be searched in a particular order. (Speaking of which, here are numbers from RedHat 7.3: : new; cd /usr/include : new; du -sk 81396 . : new; du -a | wc -l 9672 And these include files are full of #if, #ifdef and games with #define.) The problem that I believe configure was designed to solve (divergence of Unices during the Unix Wars) is going away and all the Unix vendors are making their systems compliant with POSIX and SUS and the like, so configure's raison d'etre is vanishing, yet configure scripts are getting bigger and more ludicrous. Maybe it's getting bad enough that lots of people need to start telling the GNU project to just aim for POSIX/SUS/whatever and get rid of configure and its associated religious machinery (autoconf, automake, etc.). The alternative, for us, seems to be to make Plan 9 look enough like Linux that ¾MB configure scripts can poke, prod, sniff and make false deductions based on bogus assumptions, and yet happily build GNUware. And once started down that road, it just gets worse. More and more GNUware now wants perl just to build, never mind run. And you may need GNU's special make too, and on and on. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 18 22:15:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 18 22:15:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12023 invoked by uid 1020); 18 Oct 2003 22:15:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12019 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2003 22:15:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 18 Oct 2003 22:15:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4053919B61; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDDE919B8B; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:15:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D86F19A63; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-2-p81.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.72.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2CE2E199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31165 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Oct 2003 13:09:08 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031018130908.GA30767@mithrandi.za.net> References: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:09:08 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 04:09:18 -0700, Geoff Collyer wrote: > As for C++, X and configure, my sense is that implementing X (even > from scratch) will add a lot of bulk to the system and I wonder how > much use it would get other than web browsing (about which, see What about OpenGL etc.? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 19 04:21:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 19 04:21:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28285 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Oct 2003 04:21:55 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28281 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2003 04:21:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Oct 2003 04:21:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFA0B19B8A; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF99819AD7; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03AC219AC6; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB5FB19AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <400be6b918a68bbf172e27d1706352b6@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:19:35 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>>It might be possible to construct a cage such that Linux drivers could >>>be compiled and run in Plan 9 kernels without causing too much damage >>>to the running system. Coincidentally, QNX Software Systems have just produced a white paper on a case study of converting a Linux driver (for the SMC9452TX ethernet adapter) to use with QNX. They report a successful result, largely because that particular Linux driver is "well-structured" with a clean division between hardware-specific code (which could be reused without changes) and OS-specific code (which was mostly rewritten). The hardware-specific and OS-specific parts were 7400 lines and 2030 lines of code respectively. The largest Plan 9 ethernet driver has 2117 lines of code in total. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 19 18:22:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 19 18:22:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20435 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Oct 2003 17:22:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20431 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2003 17:22:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Oct 2003 17:22:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F89919B6B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5664119B22; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:22:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F028119AB7; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 925F519A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <560bf571b8195e2767f06ffc580f1fb6@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: <20031018130908.GA30767@mithrandi.za.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pwcsoxevtdkxzhmkuhkqeufuzz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:25:14 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pwcsoxevtdkxzhmkuhkqeufuzz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't see why that couldn't drive draw directly. (i thought tinygl would do for my own purposes.) --upas-pwcsoxevtdkxzhmkuhkqeufuzz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1AAqvs-0003EU-Fq; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:30:16 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1AAqvs-0003EU-Fq; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:15:49 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49CD419B22; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F41619B95; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:15:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D86F19A63; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-2-p81.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.72.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2CE2E199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31165 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Oct 2003 13:09:08 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031018130908.GA30767@mithrandi.za.net> References: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:09:08 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 04:09:18 -0700, Geoff Collyer wrote: > As for C++, X and configure, my sense is that implementing X (even > from scratch) will add a lot of bulk to the system and I wonder how > much use it would get other than web browsing (about which, see What about OpenGL etc.? --upas-pwcsoxevtdkxzhmkuhkqeufuzz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 19 23:25:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 19 23:25:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30700 invoked by uid 1020); 19 Oct 2003 23:25:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30690 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2003 23:24:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 19 Oct 2003 23:24:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EB4219B6B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E712019BA6; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C04F19B97; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BC3719AF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aznynxalldwwgkklrgjfsuhwtx" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:22:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aznynxalldwwgkklrgjfsuhwtx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I added Micah's changes with the following difference: stats and ifstats now appears both in the higher level directory (/net/ether0) and the old places (/net/ether0/0/). The library and the commands changed now look first in the new place and then in the old place. In a month or so, I'll take stats and ifstats out of the old places and change the command and library to look only in the new places. If you don't keep up, you may experience some difficulties. --upas-aznynxalldwwgkklrgjfsuhwtx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Fri Oct 17 23:54:46 EDT 2003 Received: from epaphras.cnm-vra.com ([66.122.178.130]) by plan9; Fri Oct 17 23:54:45 EDT 2003 Received: by epaphras.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5A044CECC; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:55:50 -0700 From: Micah Stetson To: David Presotto Subject: Re: [9fans] Ethernet link status Message-ID: <20031018035550.GA21414@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> References: <20031009043303.GB3466@epaphras.cnm-vra.com> <04f174df79eebe235bcf41eed834c385@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <04f174df79eebe235bcf41eed834c385@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > The stats files in connection directories was stupid, because I > originally had a simple structure and that was the easy place to > put the stats files. I really should move it up but never get > around to it... > > In general, stats is meant for generic info common to all types of > interfaces and ifstats for interface specific stuff. I would say > that link is generic; even the 802.11's have something you might > construe as link (i.e. a base station to talk to). OK, tonight I got bored with the other project I was working on and made the requisite changes to move the 'link:' line to stats and move stats and ifstats up out of the connection directories. I haven't tested this very rigorously, but the changes are generally so inconsequential that I can't foresee any major problems. I also changed the ether(3) man page to bring it in line with the current state of affairs. I'm not convinced that the wording I've used is the best, but I can't think of how to say things better without being long winded. Diffs below: term% diff /sys/src/9/port/netif.h port/netif.h 77a78 > int link; /* link status */ term% diff /sys/src/9/port/netif.c port/netif.c 81a82,89 > case 2: > q.path = Nstatqid; > devdir(c, q, "stats", 0, eve, 0444, dp); > break; > case 3: > q.path = Nifstatqid; > devdir(c, q, "ifstats", 0, eve, 0444, dp); > break; 83c91 < i -= 2; --- > i -= 4; 124,127d131 < q.path = NETQID(NETID(c->qid.path), Nstatqid); < devdir(c, q, "stats", 0, eve, 0444, dp); < break; < case 3: 131,134d134 < case 4: < q.path = NETQID(NETID(c->qid.path), Nifstatqid); < devdir(c, q, "ifstats", 0, eve, 0444, dp); < break; 215a216 > j += snprint(p+j, READSTR-j, "link: %d\n", nif->link); term% diff /sys/src/9/ip/ethermedium.c ip/ethermedium.c 166c166 < snprint(addr, sizeof(addr), "%s/stats", dir); --- > snprint(addr, sizeof(addr), "%s/stats", argv[2]); term% diff /sys/src/9/pc/ether82557.c pc/ether82557.c 38a39 > Gstatus = 0x1D, /* General status register */ 426a428,429 > > ether->link = csr8r(ctlr, Gstatus) & 0x1; term% diff /sys/src/libip/myetheraddr.c myetheraddr.c 21c21 < sprint(buf, "%s/0/stats", dev); --- > sprint(buf, "%s/stats", dev); 23c23 < sprint(buf, "/net/%s/0/stats", dev); --- > sprint(buf, "/net/%s/stats", dev); term% diff /sys/src/cmd/stats.c stats.c 46c46 < /* /net/ether0/0/stats */ --- > /* /net/ether0/stats */ 628c628 < snprint(buf, sizeof buf, "%s/net/ether0/0/stats", mpt); --- > snprint(buf, sizeof buf, "%s/net/ether0/stats", mpt); 633c633 < snprint(buf, sizeof buf, "%s/net/ether0/0/ifstats", mpt); --- > snprint(buf, sizeof buf, "%s/net/ether0/ifstats", mpt); The changes to ether(3) are more than just a couple of lines, so I'm just attaching the whole file. It looks to me like the only binaries that need to be recompiled as a result of the libip change are ip/ipconfig, ip/rarpd and ndb/cs. One thing I didn't attempt was to modify the other ethernet controllers to put link info in the stats. Maybe what could be done temporarily is to have them set link to -1 to mean 'unknown'. Then as people have time/interest, they can update the individual drivers. Thanks for all your work, and thanks in advance for incorporating this stuff. I know you guys are busy; I will understand if it doesn't make the distro for a while. Micah --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ether .TH ETHER 3 .SH NAME ether \- Ethernet device .SH SYNOPSIS .nf .B bind -a #l /net .BI /net/ether n /addr .BI /net/ether n /clone .BI /net/ether n /ifstats .BI /net/ether n /stats .BI /net/ether n /[0-7] .BI /net/ether n /[0-7]/data .BI /net/ether n /[0-7]/ctl .BI /net/ether n /[0-7]/type .fi .SH DESCRIPTION The Ethernet interface, .BI /net/ether n\f1, is a directory containing subdirectories, one for each distinct Ethernet packet type, in addition to the files .BR addr , .BR clone , .BR ifstats , and .BR stats . The number .I n is the device number of the card, permitting multiple cards to be used on a single machine. .PP A read of the .B addr file yields the Ethernet address of the card. Reading .B stats returns status information such as the speed and integrity of the physical link along with general statistics, independent of the interface; .B ifstats contains device-specific data and statistics about the card. Opening the .B clone file is equivalent to opening the .B ctl file in an unused, perhaps newly created, connection directory. .PP Each numbered directory contains files to control the associated connection as well as receive and send data. Incoming Ethernet packets are demultiplexed by packet type and passed up the corresponding open connection. Reading from the .B data file reads packets of that type arriving from the network. A read will terminate at packet boundaries. Each write to the .B data file causes a packet to be sent. The Ethernet address of the interface is inserted into the packet header as the source address. .PP A connection is assigned to a packet type by opening its .B ctl file and writing .B connect .I n where .I n is a decimal integer constant identifying the Ethernet packet type. A type of \-1 enables the connection to receive copies of packets of all types. A type of \-2 enables the connection to receive copies of the first 64 bytes of packets of all types. If multiple connections are assigned to a given packet type a copy of each packet is passed up each connection. .PP Some interfaces also accept unique options when written to the .I ctl (or .IR clone ) file; see the description of .I wavelan in .IR plan9.ini (8). .PP Reading the .B ctl file returns the decimal index of the associated connection, 0 through 7. Reading the .B type file returns the decimal value of the assigned Ethernet packet type. .PP An interface normally receives only those packets whose destination address is that of the interface or is the broadcast address, .BR ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff . The interface can be made to receive all packets on the network by writing the string .B promiscuous to the .B ctl file. The interface remains promiscuous until the control file is closed. The extra packets are passed up connections only of types \-1 and \-2. .SH SOURCE .B /sys/src/9/*/devether.c --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --upas-aznynxalldwwgkklrgjfsuhwtx-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 00:11:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 00:11:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31884 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 00:11:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31880 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 00:11:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 00:11:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC52519BAF; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E4EE19BAA; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7222519B73; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBF4219B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cps210.cps.cmich.edu (cps210.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.210]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEDF3A89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) From: I RATTAN To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: <400be6b918a68bbf172e27d1706352b6@hamnavoe.com> Message-ID: References: <400be6b918a68bbf172e27d1706352b6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Richard Miller wrote: > Coincidentally, QNX Software Systems have just produced a white paper > on a case study of converting a Linux driver (for the SMC9452TX Where can I find this paper? -ishwar From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 00:57:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 00:57:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 905 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 00:57:12 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 901 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 00:57:11 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 00:57:11 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1EE419AEC; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 397C219B9F; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:56:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D95219ADA; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4A8C19B9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0e703c7332f6c55f6f4c5ab830b11ad0@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:54:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Coincidentally, QNX Software Systems have just produced a white paper >> on a case study of converting a Linux driver (for the SMC9452TX > Where can I find this paper? http://seminar2.techonline.com/~qnx22/sep2903/index.shtml You will be asked to "register" with assorted personal information before they let you download it. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 01:31:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 01:31:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2519 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 01:31:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2515 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 01:31:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 01:31:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC06319B88; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C730C19B2A; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C994D19A7B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EDB719B22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:27:06 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>My impression is that Linux has more drivers because it has more i get the impression there are also a good few drivers for old things you wouldn't use anymore, including some for which plan 9 had drivers but which have been declared obsolete and aren't there any more. (i looked at the driver for one device that i knew quite well. it was grim.) plan 9 eliminates whole platforms from time to time. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 12:04:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 12:04:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22767 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 11:01:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22761 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 11:01:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 11:01:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5098119B2A; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA53919B4B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC0B719B18; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 825B919AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <0c737f73c143cf69bebede3c337acd1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:01:12 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We need help. We're falling further behind in supported devices. We > could use a real browser. We need better C++ support (someone to > really finish dave hogan's gnu work). Rsc and I have discussed some > possible projects to keep us going with a small number of people: First of all, we need a robust file server! I want to shift our file server to fossil+venti, however, I'm still hasitating. This is because: 1) there are some negative experiences the users report. 2) no clear document to describe how to install it. 3) Is it really safe to use it as fossil+venti+auth server on one machine? Etec, etc Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 12:25:19 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 12:25:19 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21308 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 10:38:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21304 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 10:38:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 10:38:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56FC519B44; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1206119B28; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7F0B19AF3; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 993D419A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:38:46 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,UPPERCASE_25_50 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > - "How do I handle PCMCIA and USB" > > I still think the last is the biggest deal. Hot-plug is really needed. When I connected my usb HP printer, I do followings: 1) run usbd 2) wakeup the usb port 3) print anything to that printer. In practice, I use following scripts for my work: (1) and (2) /rc/bin/psc2110lp =========================================== #!/bin/rc if(! ~ `{ps |grep usbd} *usbd) usb/usbd for(i in `{seq 20}){ if (grep -s '3 0x020107' '#U'/usb0/$i/status >[2]/dev/null){ echo -n 'ep 3 bulk w 64 32' >'#U'/usb0/$i/ctl bind '#U'/usb0/$i/ep3data /n/lp exit '' } } exit 'no printer' ================================ (2) /sys/lib/lp/devices have a line of ================================== # Hewlett-Packard All-in-One usb printer psc 2110 psc2110 Kenji-Home - /n/lp - gsijs!PSC+2100 generic nospool - - - - ================================== (3) change the /sys/lib/lp/process/generic to ============================================ #!/bin/rc # Tries to determine what type of file you are printing and do the correct # thing with it. # It currently knows about images, troff intermediate, and ascii files. TMPFILE=/tmp/lp$pid fn sigexit { rm -f $TMPFILE; } if (! ~ $DEBUG '') flag x + if (~ $LPCLASS *nohead*) NOHEAD=1 if (~ $LPCLASS *duplex*) DUPLEX=1 cat >$TMPFILE FILETYPE=`{file $TMPFILE} switch ($FILETYPE(2)) { case troff; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *Latin1* *post* *opost*; switch ($FILETYPE(5)) { # Latin1 is for compatibility with old research UNIX systems, doesn't work on Plan 9 case Latin1 post; tcs -s -f utf -t latin1 < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/dpost case UTF; $LPLIB/process/tr2post < $TMPFILE } case *gs!* *gsijs!*; switch ($FILETYPE(5)) { # Latin1 is for compatibility with old research UNIX systems, doesn't work on Plan 9 case Latin1 post; tcs -s -f utf -t latin1 < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/dpost |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case UTF; $LPLIB/process/tr2post < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe } case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) -T$FILETYPE(5) output is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case special; switch ($FILETYPE(4)) { case '#b'; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs } case *; echo $FILETYPE file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case Compressed plan old; # type is really 'Compressed image' or 'plan 9 image' # or 'old plan 9 image' switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/p9bitpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs } case jpeg; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/jpgpost < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/jpgpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/jpgpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs } case GIF; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/gifpost < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/gifpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/gifpost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs } case ccitt-g31; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/g3post < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/g3post < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/g3post < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs } # bitmap for research UNIX compatibility, does not work on Plan 9. case bitmap; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/bpost < $TMPFILE case *mhcc*; $LPLIB/process/bpost < $TMPFILE | $LPLIB/process/mhcc case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case tex; mv $TMPFILE $TMPFILE.dvi TMPFILE=$TMPFILE.dvi switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/dvipost $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/dvipost $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/dvipost $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case postscript; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/post < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/post < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/post < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case HPJCL; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *HPJCL*; $LPLIB/process/noproc < $TMPFILE case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case daisy; switch ($LPDEST) { case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case English short extended alef limbo [Aa]scii assembler c latin rc sh as mail email message/rfc822; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/ppost < $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/ppost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/ppost < $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs case *canon*; $LPLIB/process/can $* < $TMPFILE case *; echo Unrecognized class of line printer for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case tiff; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/tiffpost $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/tiffpost $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipe case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/tiffpost $TMPFILE |$LPLIB/process/gspipeijs case *; echo Unrecognized class of line printer for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case PDF; switch ($LPCLASS) { case *post*; $LPLIB/process/pdfpost $TMPFILE case *gs!*; $LPLIB/process/pdfgs $TMPFILE case *gsijs!*; $LPLIB/process/pdfgsijs $TMPFILE case *; echo Unrecognized class of line printer for $LPDEST >[1=2] } case empty; echo file is empty >[1=2] case cannot; echo cannot open file >[1=2] case *; echo $FILETYPE(2) file is improper for $LPDEST >[1=2] } wait rv=$status rm -f $TMPFILE #exit $status exit ====================================== (4) add a file as /sys/lib/lp/process/gspipeijs as#!/bin/rc ====================================== # extended to IJS driver by K.Okamoto if (! ~ $DEBUG '') flag x + # usage: gspipeijs [dev] # assumes postscript on stdin switch($#*) { case 0 MANUF=`{echo $LPCLASS | sed 's/(.*\+)?gsijs!([^+]*)(\+.*)?/\2/'} PRODCT=`{echo $LPCLASS | sed 's/(.*\+)?gsijs!([^+]*)\+(.*)?/\3/'} case 1 IJS=$1 case * echo 'usage: gspipeijs [dev]' >[1=2] exit gspipeijs } GSTMPFILE=/tmp/gsp$pid GSOPT=(-q '-sDEVICE=ijs' '-sIjsServer='hpijs '-sDeviceModel='"$MANUF^' '^$PRODCT" '-sOutputFile='^$GSTMPFILE '-sPAPERSIZE='a4 -dIjsUseOutputFD -dSAFER -dNOPAUSE ) gs $GSOPT - cat $GSTMPFILE rm $GSTMPFILE exit ====================================== (5) then, lp -dpsc2110 foo.ps Lastly, I hate lp system of Plan 9!!! Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 12:29:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 12:29:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27951 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 12:29:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27946 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 12:29:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 12:29:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D32B19A97; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF5DA19B22; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C624419B04; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C27BF19A91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <560bf571b8195e2767f06ffc580f1fb6@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:28:03 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i don't see why that couldn't drive draw directly. > (i thought tinygl would do for my own purposes.) tinygl is a mess that doesn't even look right... MesaGL 5.0.1 has been sitting largely compiled in $home since June 15th.. It needs a driver for the software renderer and for glut, which I believe is the harder of the two. it also needs time, which nobody seems to have. as fo rrewriting X apps for libdraw, it is relatively straightforward to translate the simple X primitives into libdraw ones. the xscreensaver hacks are an example. i think Geoff is right -- without somebody being able to work full-time on those things nothing will get done. the bubble burst and the code that depended on developers' spare time is moving ahead slower and slower -- see how long it took for FBSD 5.0 to come out. Linux, on the other hand, has at least one full-time developer at every major corporation working for it. it's the one with the momentum behind it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 13:24:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 13:24:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11294 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 06:47:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11290 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 06:47:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 06:47:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A570019AF9; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C7F319B80; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:47:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4495E19B69; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 401DF19AA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1351d9abe28a3d4b732ead7cf5c8a298@juice.thebigchoice.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: matt@proweb.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] driver wrappers Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:47:52 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Linux can use Windows drivers http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12207 http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/19/1642233 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 15:36:30 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 15:36:30 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6440 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 15:36:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6406 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 15:35:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 15:35:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A70F19B0D; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32DC619B04; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:35:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9F3219AAD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8FB219A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.100.111] (helo=blue) by 9fs.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABTeb-0003A4-5B for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:36:33 +0100 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:33:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSGID_GOOD_EXCHANGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > First of all, we need a robust file server! > I want to shift our file server to fossil+venti, however, I'm still > hasitating. This is because: 1) there are some negative experiences > the users report. 2) no clear document to describe how to install it. > 3) Is it really safe to use it as fossil+venti+auth server on one > machine? > > Etec, etc > > Kenji I've not had any experience of fossil+venti as to it's reliability, but I would refer back to previous conversations here about disk reliability. I'm nervous about committing important data to modern disk drives, especially IDE drives. Plan 9 offers three choices in increasing cost: 1. IDE drives with devfs mirroring 2. SCSI drives with devfs mirroring 3. DVD jukebox. Unfortunately, I can't cost justify anything other than (1). This has the feel of not actually providing much more reliability. and recovering from a disk failure would be a homebrew affair, so isn't quite good enough. What would be equivalent on cost, and offer a reasonable recovery route would be hardware RAID 5, so the BIOS can do the recovery for me if needed. I'm trying to secure my data, not put it at risk, so writing a hardware RAID 5 driver for Plan 9 is not a good route to take, even if I had the time just now! There is excellent RAID 5 support in Linux, and reasonable (and perhaps more trustworthy) support in FreeBSD. Thus a port of venti to Lunix would offer people a means to secure their data without having to give up on fossil or all the other nice things in Plan 9. So we'll have less of the talk about rats thank you very much. There are good reasons for taking the best of both I would have thought. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 16:21:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 16:21:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8487 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 16:21:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8483 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 16:21:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 16:21:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0048A19B30; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05AF819B09; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu. Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D15D419AA2; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1927819AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu.>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:19:51 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:20 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F938C78.000001.16330@file1> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu.> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] Game: Snake Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi plan9-ers! i tried to make a game, so i started with primitive implementation of snake game. can be found here: http://www.plan9.cz/snake.c any comments and improvements are very welcome. Sasa Babic (a.b@email.cz) _________________________________________________________________________= _______ Hugo Boss - Boss Intense Nov=E1 v=F9n=EC pro =BEeny.=20 Zkus ji!=20 http://www.email.cz/hugoboss From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 16:43:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 16:43:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9792 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 16:43:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9788 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 16:43:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 16:43:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83B8719AEB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D086E19A7F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6711F19AA3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nautilus.escet.urjc.es (nautilus.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49AD119AA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jjhndsefyetkcvcxccvyyocjrw" Subject: [9fans] silly script to perform regression testing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:09:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jjhndsefyetkcvcxccvyyocjrw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought this might be useful for others, although it's a bit naive. hth --upas-jjhndsefyetkcvcxccvyyocjrw Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=check Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #!/bin/rc prog=8.out verb=no if (~ $1 -v){ verb=yes shift } switch($#*){ case 0 tests=`{ls [0-9]* >[2]/dev/null | grep -v 'out' | grep -v new} case 1 prog=$1 tests=`{ls [0-9]* >[2]/dev/null | grep -v 'out' | grep -v new} case 2 prog=$1 shift if (test -d $1) tests=`{ls $1/[0-9]* >[2]/dev/null | grep -v 'out$' | grep -v 'new$'} if not tests=$1 case * echo usage: $0 '[-v] [prog [test|testdir]]' >[1=2] exit usage } if (! test -x $prog){ echo $prog ': not executable' >[1=2] exit prog } pname=`{basename $prog} fn fail (){ echo $* >[1=2] exit failed } for ( f in $tests) { what=`{sed 1q $f | grep '^#'} if (! ~ $#what 0) echo test $f : $what if not echo test $f broke|rc kill $pname|rc rm -f $f.new grep '^#!' $f | sed 's/..//' | rc grep -v '^#' $f | $prog $params>$f.new >[2=1] if (test -e $f.out){ diff <{grep -v '^#' $f.out} <{grep -v '^#' $f.new} || { echo ; echo mv $f.new $f.out echo output was: sed 's/^/ /' $f.new fail test $f failed } if (~ $verb yes) sed 's/^/ /' $f.new rm -f $f.new } if not { echo first time for $f if (~ $verb yes) sed 's/^/ /' $f.new mv $f.new $f.out } } echo all tests passed exit 0 --upas-jjhndsefyetkcvcxccvyyocjrw Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=check Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .TH CHECK 1 .SH NAME check \- check that regression tests pass .SH SYNOPSIS .B check [ .B -v ] [ .I prog [ .I file | .I dir ] ] .SH DESCRIPTION .I Check is an rc script that performs regression testing for a program. It sends input files to the program .I prog (by default .B 8.out ) and compares its output with that of previous runs. It is usual to have one input file per program test. Input files must have names that start with a digit and do not have .B .out or .B .new suffixes. .PP Check executes the program just for .IR file , if given as an argument. It checks all input files in .I dir if given, and all input files in the current directory otherwise. .PP The first time a test is run, it is considered to pass and its output is kept in a file named like the input file but terminated in .BR .out . When a check fails the new output (which differs from the .B .out file) is kept in a file for inspection. This file has the same name of the input file terminated in .BR .new . .PP Input files may contain arbitrary text. Lines starting with .B # are ignored and lines starting with .B #! are executed before starting the check of the input file. This mechanism can be used to prepare the environment for the check. Option .B -v makes the program output more verbose. .PP If the first line of an input file is a comment, check considers that it contains a one-line description of the test performed by the file. That description is printed when the test is run. .SH SOURCE .B /rc/bin/check .SH BUGS Binary input files are not handled properly. --upas-jjhndsefyetkcvcxccvyyocjrw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 17:34:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 17:34:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12908 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 17:34:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12902 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 17:34:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 17:34:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 562D219AF3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 574C119A02; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA0C19AF3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A04E319A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5551b6dfb79934c8033b35ae14b86a7e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:29:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd put fossil+venti on a separate machine from a general cpu server, much as with the old file server. that way you can give it lots of memory all to itself, for cache, and you are much less likely to suffer unpleasantness (because a random program exhausts memory for instance or trips over something in the system). i'd have thought the auth could happily coexist, though: they are small, fairly easily bounded as to the resource requirements, and are unlikely to cause much trouble. --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1ABPMT-0006x2-G0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:01:34 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ABPMT-0006x2-G0 for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:01:34 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5098119B2A; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA53919B4B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC0B719B18; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 825B919AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <0c737f73c143cf69bebede3c337acd1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:01:12 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We need help. We're falling further behind in supported devices. We > could use a real browser. We need better C++ support (someone to > really finish dave hogan's gnu work). Rsc and I have discussed some > possible projects to keep us going with a small number of people: First of all, we need a robust file server! I want to shift our file server to fossil+venti, however, I'm still hasitating. This is because: 1) there are some negative experiences the users report. 2) no clear document to describe how to install it. 3) Is it really safe to use it as fossil+venti+auth server on one machine? Etec, etc Kenji --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 17:45:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 17:45:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13287 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 17:45:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13283 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 17:45:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 17:45:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73E4C19B09; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB04019B2B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 233CF19A9B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDD8019AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <5551b6dfb79934c8033b35ae14b86a7e@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:17 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i'd have thought the auth could happily coexist, though: So, you think that we don't worry about to have AUTH + Fosssil + Venti on a machine. I'm not a speciallist of computer security. I'd like to know what is the difference between old file server and new fossil + etc, the former was a standalone machine, and the latter can be a network machine. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 17:46:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 17:46:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13322 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 17:46:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13318 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 17:46:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 17:46:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5743B19991; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CC9219AD0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:46:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DE3719B39; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4184B19A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90494ce6a6a1e08e2983023e02b2ce70@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <5551b6dfb79934c8033b35ae14b86a7e@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dyyipvvntzfqtjijhulngirabr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:45:03 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dyyipvvntzfqtjijhulngirabr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit regarding robustness, I'd say venti and fossil are robust. At least, we did suffer more problems with the worm that we have with venti&fossil. --upas-dyyipvvntzfqtjijhulngirabr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Oct 20 10:34:41 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D14F919A91; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 574C119A02; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA0C19AF3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A04E319A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5551b6dfb79934c8033b35ae14b86a7e@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:29:37 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd put fossil+venti on a separate machine from a general cpu server, much as with the old file server. that way you can give it lots of memory all to itself, for cache, and you are much less likely to suffer unpleasantness (because a random program exhausts memory for instance or trips over something in the system). i'd have thought the auth could happily coexist, though: they are small, fairly easily bounded as to the resource requirements, and are unlikely to cause much trouble. --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1ABPMT-0006x2-G0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:01:34 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ABPMT-0006x2-G0 for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:01:34 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5098119B2A; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA53919B4B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:01:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC0B719B18; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 825B919AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <0c737f73c143cf69bebede3c337acd1a@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:01:12 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We need help. We're falling further behind in supported devices. We > could use a real browser. We need better C++ support (someone to > really finish dave hogan's gnu work). Rsc and I have discussed some > possible projects to keep us going with a small number of people: First of all, we need a robust file server! I want to shift our file server to fossil+venti, however, I'm still hasitating. This is because: 1) there are some negative experiences the users report. 2) no clear document to describe how to install it. 3) Is it really safe to use it as fossil+venti+auth server on one machine? Etec, etc Kenji --upas-emjsnszfkbrcdiqprjiyimiusy-- --upas-dyyipvvntzfqtjijhulngirabr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 17:51:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 17:51:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13575 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 17:51:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13571 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 17:51:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 17:51:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B849E19B47; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C66919B25; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:51:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8A2819A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E43D19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3279e1cac4e41327cb86a2b28ec29bdd@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mhhmvijltpgdfeckxaicizfdug" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:50:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mhhmvijltpgdfeckxaicizfdug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doesnt have to be a difference if you don't want to have it. For us, our fileserver is also a regular cpuserver used just for the web, mail, and the like. But you could certainly use it to export your fossil to the network and nothing else; and it would behave like the old worm. In fact, we are not even exporting venti, since it runs only on a loopback interface to service fossil requests. --upas-mhhmvijltpgdfeckxaicizfdug Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Oct 20 10:45:40 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BF8F19AF3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB04019B2B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 233CF19A9B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDD8019AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <5551b6dfb79934c8033b35ae14b86a7e@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:17 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > i'd have thought the auth could happily coexist, though: So, you think that we don't worry about to have AUTH + Fosssil + Venti on a machine. I'm not a speciallist of computer security. I'd like to know what is the difference between old file server and new fossil + etc, the former was a standalone machine, and the latter can be a network machine. Kenji --upas-mhhmvijltpgdfeckxaicizfdug-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 18:52:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 18:52:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16104 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 18:52:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16100 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 18:52:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 18:52:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E72FA19A53; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7348919BA6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:52:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E776319AA2; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F25A019B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Game: Snake From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <3F938C78.000001.16330@file1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:51:52 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > hi plan9-ers! > > i tried to make a game, so i started with primitive implementation > of snake game. can be found here: http://www.plan9.cz/snake.c > any comments and improvements are very welcome. Before comments, I don't know how to play with it. ☺ The red point is food? Snake try to catch the food? If I catch the food successfully, what will happen? I havn't any success yet. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 18:57:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 18:57:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16453 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 18:57:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16449 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 18:57:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 18:57:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6178E19B2A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 336EB199E0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 006C4199E0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D60A19B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Game: Snake From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:57:06 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I feel that the snake moves too fast for mt. I'm running it on PenIV 1.6GHz, S3 ProSavage8 graphic card (on motherboard). Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:15:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:15:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17149 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:15:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17145 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:15:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:15:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0391B19B9A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A80FC19B8B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:15:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu. Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B95319A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D673719B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu.>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:14:09 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F93B571.000001.27813@file1> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu.> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] Game Snake Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:14:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi everybody! Sorry, that I haven't send info with snake, info is inside of source code. Keys: movements 't' up, 'b' down, 'j' left, 'l' right. pause and unpause 'p'. quit 'q' If you want to change the speed, you can change variable speed inside the function void reset_snake(void), or etimer setting in main(void) function. This is very primitive implementation so there are some problems with this game. Look into snake.c and at the top there's a TODO list. Sasa Babic (a.b@email.cz) _________________________________________________________________________= _______ Aktu=E1ln=EC: Sout=EC=BEte o su=B9i=E8ku pr=E1dla Ariston A 46 C s Obchod= n=EDm domem.cz na http://www.email.cz/obchodnidum From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:50:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:50:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19518 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19345 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:48:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:48:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB07019B9A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2A2E19A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37F6719B8C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D4DF19B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXMP-0000Gh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <0f55d9e46a0352445b7c9d406c888dd2@yourdomain.dom>, <20031017204106.GV834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:33:00 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Christopher Nielsen wrote: > ... As much as I loved it, SPARC is dead. > ... > All the world's an x86 or PowerPC. Which is most unfortunate, as the x86's ISA really sucks. But I think perhaps Plan 9 ought to take a different approach. You guys are not able to keep up with the PC hardware wave front, making it necessary to configure "obsolete" equipment in order to run Plan 9; I know that the availability of Plan 9 support for graphics cards has affected how I have built my own PCs. Given that this is necessarily the case, what is so wrong about continuting the multi-platform tradition that Plan 9 started with? There are plenty of MIPS and SPARC boxes on the used equipment market, e.g. eBay, selling for peanuts compared to modern PCs. Heck, many people still build and operate PDP-11 systems (not that I expect a Plan 9 port to the PDP-11). Is there some pressing reason why you have to give in to the continual pressure to upgrade to the latest PC gizmos? Plan 9 doesn't use nor need most of the capabilities of the latest PCs. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:50:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:50:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19534 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19381 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:48:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:48:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04DA719B9F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4205919B2A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:48:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05AA919B8E; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 01B8919B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXMP-0000Gn-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <-L-dnalbzpe7Rw2iRVn-sw@comcast.com> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:33:11 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) What the whole industry really, really needs is for all resources to be accessed through a clean but adequate interface that has exactly the same access methods no matter what the nature of the resource. In other words, devices all need to come from the manufacturers speaking something like 9P. This will never be achieved by hiding in a corner hacking away at a niche OS, but could perhaps be achieved eventually by more activism in the standards realm, both de facto (e.g. Linux) and de jure (e.g. POSIX). By letting other people determine the properties of such interfaces you basically doom the most significant good idea of Plan 9 to historical oblivion. Inferno was an attempt at beginning to establish something like what I have in mind, but it didn't have enough impetus sustained on enough fronts over a long enough time to have the desired effect. Maybe the thing to do is seek out several of the smart minds in Microsoft R&D, who are bound to see the problems but might not have seen the solution, and engage them in dialogues. If you make enough impact, perhaps it would begin moving the dominant OS line in the right direction, eventually enabling protocol-compatible OSes with different higher-level interfaces to compete. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:50:26 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:50:26 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19552 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:15 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19407 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:49:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:49:13 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4678019BA0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91FF919B47; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:48:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5F0319B4A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF06B19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXMQ-0000Gz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20031017143638.B10499@submarine> Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:33:41 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Roman Shaposhnick wrote: > I always wanted to see how many applications would break if I were to, > lets say, disable shared memory from SysV API. It could be a nice > experiment to do on a live contemporary distro -- just pick a set of > obscure interfaces and see how many applications are really using > any of it. Just because something isn't much used doesn't prove that it isn't essential to have for a few cases where it is used. In the case of shared memory, more recent apps use threads instead of separate processes sharing memory. Threads weren't available when shared memory was added. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:50:27 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:50:27 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19568 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:26 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19468 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:49:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:49:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E601B199EB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9779619B2A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C65AE19A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE0AA19A0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXRF-0000Ke-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: bs Message-ID: <9lakb.809288$Ho3.219019@sccrnsc03> Organization: Comcast Online Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <7dcb175c4b441d42d3050f09e0eb74a0@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:35:06 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Here are my thoughts: To interoperate with other OS's out there one should port 9P2000 and the 9fs (u9fs) to those OS's at a minimum, and support CIFS and NFS at a minimum. Slamming the namespace into the other OS's might pose a problem, or almost close to impossible. With this, one can get into co-existing everywhere. With the port of the libraries from p9, one can, if they want, start writing portable code going forward. This way we can build up the base. The bigger challenge now is how to work with all the h/w bits out there: If one can only understand the clear differences between a plan9 device driver and a linux/bsd driver, even twits like me can contribute to converting them. Hey, run through a translator, compile a few times and get it standing up. This IMO can atleast help getting p9 closer to the masses. (This will still not get us a browser, but if the python port is complete, one can try porting Grail over. May be we need Tk too.). -bs From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:50:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:50:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19592 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19479 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:49:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:49:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D454619BBA; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C35F19B2A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C533199EB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C427319A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXRF-0000Kk-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Patrick R. Wade" Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com References: <560bf571b8195e2767f06ffc580f1fb6@vitanuova.com>, <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: pat_e@efn.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:35:20 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > >i think Geoff is right -- without somebody being able to work >full-time on those things nothing will get done. the bubble burst and >the code that depended on developers' spare time is moving ahead >slower and slower -- see how long it took for FBSD 5.0 to come out. > Which seems kind of backwards; one would expect the bubble bursting to leave lots of developers with *more* spare time than before... -- :wq! ? ^X^C ? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 19:51:16 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 19:51:16 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19633 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19539 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 19:50:13 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 19:50:13 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5E7A19BC3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D80919B6B; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:49:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F39419B47; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB86019B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABXMP-0000Gt-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <20031017201737.GT834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:33:32 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Christopher Nielsen wrote: > How else do drivers get written? :) The hardware vendors write them (or contract to have them written) for the OSes that are dominant in the marketplace. It might not be a bad idea to study the WDM to see if its drivers can be interfaced to some generic Plan 9 device driver; while crufty at least it would help solve the problem of not getting enough information from hardware vendors to write Plan 9 drivers. Or if Linux has a better driver interface for this purpose, use that. At least Linux has *some* vendor support. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 21:14:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 21:14:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22435 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22431 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 21:14:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 934A3199BB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4782D19B28; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF3F9199E0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2438919995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7638cca1580296ffcbd03bc3e5a3e89a@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sparc hardware available in the UK (probably) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:05:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) my issue with the "why bother with new stuff?" isn't that i need all the whiz-bang features of the newer devices, but rather that it quicly becomes dificult to find older components, particularly in any quantity or on any tight schedule. i've spent weeks in the past looking for supported video or sound cards (i've not had such a problem with ethernet; we may not support many, but the ones we do are fairly common), and probably longer once or twice looking for a supported scsi card. as the manufacturers move on to newer and fancier things, the older models get EOL'd and binned. and then there are one or two things i do care about from newer systems: most notably support for large quantities of fast RAM. preferably the comodoty varieties i can buy cheaply. i can get a perfectly fine Sparc 20 cheap enough, which is plenty fast enough for what i need (with processor speeds these days, the idea of cheap-dumb-terminal and super-fast cpu server seems to have fallen by the wayside), but getting the gig of ram i want for my mail server (upas/fs isn't exactly the most memory efficient mailer in the world) is a sight tougher. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 20 23:05:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 20 23:05:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25857 invoked by uid 1020); 20 Oct 2003 23:05:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25852 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 23:05:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 23:05:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75D4B19BA0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D66E219B28; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA6B619A70; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3653519AF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KE3RJR029417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:03:27 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KE3RF2021349 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:03:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KE3Ima029315 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:03:26 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: <400be6b918a68bbf172e27d1706352b6@hamnavoe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:03:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Richard Miller wrote: > The largest Plan 9 ethernet driver has 2117 lines of code in total. not a completely fair comparison. A lot of those linux drivers have cases for all the buggy various implementations. See the Tulip driver as a worst-case (but it's not; see the tg3 driver ...) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 01:04:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 01:04:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29282 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 01:04:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29278 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 01:04:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 01:04:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C9B019B90; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C527019B22; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CDB219B28; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B0CE19AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KG34Un012720 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:03:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <7cc363f14ba5668eaf8d9247a2dab077@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <-L-dnalbzpe7Rw2iRVn-sw@comcast.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:03:09 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Maybe the thing to do is seek out several of the smart > minds in Microsoft R&D, who are bound to see the problems > but might not have seen the solution, and engage them in > dialogues. If you make enough impact, perhaps it would > begin moving the dominant OS line in the right direction, > eventually enabling protocol-compatible OSes with different > higher-level interfaces to compete. It appears they've already (re)invented it. It is called WinFS and as is usual practice it will probably have something like 9P but different; There is very little information about it, but it is presumably part of Longhorn and they're saying look for it around 2005-06. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 01:13:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 01:13:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29763 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 01:13:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29759 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 01:13:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 01:13:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 62B7719B22; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E521A19BA4; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB7AA19AA0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43C8819B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4452563461f1a920a99390ce7e92db35@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] man pages Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:10:53 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the index of man pages at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/man seems to be out of date. there are pages accessible directly that aren't in the list of pages. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 01:16:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 01:16:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29892 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 01:16:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29888 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 01:16:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 01:16:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36B47199F6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C2F219B28; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:16:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDA5619BA6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE6A119AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] Re: we need help... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:15:17 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Some thoughts: Re: Effective X11 implementation. Would an implementation of gtk be enough? This would give us mozilla/firebird and many other similar apps. Re: configure I had a quick go at getting configure to go, hacking the scripts a little. It looked quite promising though perhaps my example was easy (GNU indent). An alternative approach might be to use configure's config files (sic) to generate mkfiles directly. Just my £0.02 worth -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:03:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:03:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31977 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:03:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31973 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:03:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:03:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4C5819BFE; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91D6C19BE9; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FA9819BE7; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (neuromancer.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B581119BE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvandar.mithrandi.za.net (rrba-ip-nas-1-p146.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.84.146]) by neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id B84BB1B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30094 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Oct 2003 07:04:57 -0000 From: Tristan Seligmann To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031020070457.GA30058@mithrandi.za.net> References: <560bf571b8195e2767f06ffc580f1fb6@vitanuova.com> <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:04:57 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 21:28:03 -0600, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > MesaGL 5.0.1 has been sitting largely compiled in $home since June > 15th.. It needs a driver for the software renderer and for glut, > which I believe is the harder of the two. How would hardware support be handled? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:05:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:05:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32018 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:05:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32014 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:05:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:05:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C8D819BF2; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CE5719C00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4DA219C04; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDFFC19BFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84bb8c674daa0269b77211554b83dc3e@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:51 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon Oct 20 10:05:41 EDT 2003, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Richard Miller wrote: > > > The largest Plan 9 ethernet driver has 2117 lines of code in total. > > not a completely fair comparison. A lot of those linux drivers have cases > for all the buggy various implementations. See the Tulip driver as a > worst-case (but it's not; see the tg3 driver ...) > > ron Which Linux tulip driver? The one that only handles the 21041 or the one that says it has had all 21041 support stripped out but hasn't (linux-2.5.69)? Of course I can't really disagree with your main point, that it's not a fair comparison and that the drivers purport to handle many buggy chips. Indeed, many of them do. I'm reminded of when I wrote the Realtek 8139 driver and I looked at a number of the *nix drivers. They all had reams of code dealing with chip bugs, but the bugs described in one driver were not the same as those in another. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:16:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:16:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32417 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:16:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32411 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:16:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:16:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03B0B19BFA; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98AC919C08; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:16:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A00A19BFC; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05FA119BF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03693 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h9KHF7l17447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201715.h9KHF7l17447@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] man pages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:10:53 EDT." <4452563461f1a920a99390ce7e92db35@9srv.net> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:15:07 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I rebuilt the index at sdgm.net the other day, you can try that. http://www.sdgm.net/sys/man/ - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:18:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:18:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32479 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:18:33 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32475 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:18:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:18:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21B2419C05; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAB0B19C0A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8F8C19BFB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D86F819BF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20031020070457.GA30058@mithrandi.za.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:17:19 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 21:28:03 -0600, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: >> MesaGL 5.0.1 has been sitting largely compiled in $home since June >> 15th.. It needs a driver for the software renderer and for glut, >> which I believe is the harder of the two. > > How would hardware support be handled? it won't... even if Plan 9 knew hardware optimizations for anything beyond rectangle fills, scrolling and hardware cursors there would be too much code required to get mesa to use it. ideally one would be hiding optimizations behind something like /dev/opengl, but a reimplementation of the opengl library as a file server is, I believe, beyond the amount of free time anyone on this list has available :) I don't think we can catch up with 2.0, even if we never look at the 1.x stuff... makes for a nice student project though, doesn't it? pity nobody would let me do it back when mesa was in its relative infancy. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:22:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:22:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32597 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:22:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32592 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:22:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:22:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4148619BDD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B38419C17; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:22:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD7E719C15; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD72E19BFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57b6ec5ada5e2295a6a5ca5d4f869634@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Virtual PC on Mac OS X Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:20:59 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I have put new versions of /sys/src/boot/pc/ether2114x.c /sys/src/9/pc/ether2114x.c on sources which handle the Digital 21041 ethernet chip emulated by Virtual PC on the Mac. Thanks to Kenji Arisawa and Anthony Sorace for testing the changes. Kenji has a screenshot available: http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/vpc/screenshot.png If I broke something, let me know. --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 02:23:09 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 02:23:09 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32605 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 02:23:09 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32600 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 02:23:03 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 02:23:03 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56DD419BE5; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DA0019BCB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92B2D19C0A; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DCB819BFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KHLYaJ029455 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:21:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KHLXpe014930 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:21:33 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KHLXma004747 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:21:33 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:21:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote: > 1) there are some negative experiences the users report. You mean like losing files and lockups? true. Snapshots help here however. But it is still hardly an ideal situation. I do not totally agree with some of the linux comments I have seen here. My experience is that Plan 9 file systems are less reliable than linux file systems, and both of these are less reliable then freebsd, and none of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. For trusting my files to a system, I don't yet see an advantage of Plan 9 over Linux. That situation is set to improve, I suppose. But I just lost a file today under fossil and I had a fossil lockup last week, so work is left to be done. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 04:38:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 04:38:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4412 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 04:38:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4408 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 04:38:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 04:38:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 480DD19988; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DED9D199F6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17FDB19A2D; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE0BA199A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:30:47 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX >>machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. ha ha ha ha ha. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 04:43:17 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 04:43:17 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4536 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 04:43:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4531 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 04:43:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 04:43:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 043CB19A1F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 142DD19A53; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:42:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68BBB199F6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54E9C199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KJewaJ001986 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:40:58 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KJewxi007970 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:40:58 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KJewma010728 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:40:58 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:40:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX > >>machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. > > ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, all right, I'll admit it: *I* never lost a file. YMMV. But neither did any of the other folks I worked with at U. Penn. I'm willing to accept that 'reset' is a less-than-sensible way to reboot a machine. :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 05:08:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 05:08:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5275 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 05:08:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5268 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 05:08:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 05:08:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BA5819A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E0CFE199F6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09EB219A85; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E319919A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:07:02 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm willing to accept that 'reset' is a less-than-sensible way to reboot a > machine. no, you need this: NAME halt, reboot, poweroff - stop the system. SYNOPSIS /sbin/halt [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] [-p] [-h] /sbin/reboot [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] /sbin/poweroff [-n] [-w] [-d] [-f] [-i] [-h] also: NAME shutdown - bring the system down SYNOPSIS /sbin/shutdown [-t sec] [-arkhncfF] time [warning-message] but that's not all! you are also required to have the usermode utilities. To quote: The usermode package contains the userhelper program, which can be used to allow configured programs to be run with superuser privileges by ordinary users. It provides, among other things, the very user-helpful: /usr/bin/halt /usr/bin/poweroff /usr/bin/reboot which allow a normal user to reboot the console without having administrative privileges! You may say "but why don't you just remove the usermode package, eh?" The answer is hidden here, try to find it: root@fbsd# rpm -ev usermode error: Failed dependencies: usermode is needed by (installed) redhat-config-proc-0.18-1 usermode >= 1.36 is needed by (installed) redhat-config-securitylevel-1.0.1-1 usermode >= 1.36 is needed by (installed) redhat-config-xfree86-0.6.7-1 usermode = 1.63-1 is needed by (installed) usermode-gtk-1.63-1 usermode >= 1.36 is needed by (installed) redhat-config-services-0.8.2-1 usermode is needed by (installed) gtoaster-1.0beta5-9 usermode is needed by (installed) xawtv-3.74-4 usermode >= 1.36 is needed by (installed) redhat-config-date-1.5.15-1 usermode is needed by (installed) gdm-2.4.0.7-14 usermode >= 1.36 is needed by (installed) up2date-gnome-3.0.7.2-1 root@fbsd# Now, the $0.02 question is: "Can you guess which of the two 'reboot' programs, the one that wants root, and the one that doesn't, comes first in a default RedHat user's $PATH?" andrey ps: I had to run sed on this email to change all the '-' in the pasted man pages from the special short dash symbol that Red Hat uses, surely to prevent me from searching for documentation on specific options by typing '/-d' for example. pps: I'm sending this email as a pissed off FreeBSD user, not as a pissed off Plan 9 user. Plan 9 is so detached from such debaucheries, that their vile nature is incomprehensible to the average 9fan, thus cannot drive him (her) to such curmudgeonry as witnessed in this email. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 05:16:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 05:16:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5558 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 05:16:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5554 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 05:16:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 05:16:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE3A419A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA8A819A9E; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6823719A1C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FC8219988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKEsaJ010812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKEr9C031978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKErma012278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > pps: I'm sending this email as a pissed off FreeBSD user, not as a > pissed off Plan 9 user. Plan 9 is so detached from such debaucheries, > that their vile nature is incomprehensible to the average 9fan, thus > cannot drive him (her) to such curmudgeonry as witnessed in this > email. yeah, on Plan 9 you reboot and when you come up /lib/ndb/local is gone. Just happened this morning. Sorry, things have to improve on Plan 9, not that Linux is a model, but ... ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 05:31:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 05:31:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6226 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 05:31:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6222 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 05:31:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 05:31:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA92C19A53; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FAD419A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AD2219A03; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17D4119A2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3701b09b27de9f20e9a2c1bd77e17417@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:27:48 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i also find the idea of porting gtk (rather than X11) to draw somewhat less repulsive and likely more efficient (since, to get most of the apps our X11 port would be for, we'd have to muck with it at some point anyway). it's also the approach being undertaken by various gtk porters (not to plan 9, obviously: Mac OS X and Win32). it doesn't exactly make it easy or pleasant or fast... ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:09:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:09:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7034 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:09:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7028 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:09:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:09:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F0BB19A32; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C05819A87; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0736A199E6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4CDB6199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9677 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 20:56:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ratsnest.hole) (81.196.245.153) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 20:56:30 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: <20031020210811.GA1374@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:08:11 +0300 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 a.d., mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > ps: I had to run sed on this email to change all the '-' in the pasted > man pages from the special short dash symbol that Red Hat uses, surely > to prevent me from searching for documentation on specific options by > typing '/-d' for example. The dash is 'MINUS SIGN' (0x2212 - in utf-8: \xe2\x88\x92) Disable UTF-8 locales to get rid of all that trouble. export LC_ALL=C in .bashrc RH does not really support UTF-8 (there are a lot of horror stories about their locales defaulting to xx_XX.UTF-8). Regards, Adi From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:09:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:09:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7041 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:09:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7037 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:09:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:09:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53DE819A8F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75EC419A9C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CDF819A14; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D55C199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hfpljvmjkqrdfvcbdsrkgcykjy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:08:33 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hfpljvmjkqrdfvcbdsrkgcykjy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where does that happen? --upas-hfpljvmjkqrdfvcbdsrkgcykjy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 16:16:46 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 16:16:43 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 919ED19A67; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA7819A1C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6823719A1C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FC8219988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKEsaJ010812 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKEr9C031978 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9KKErma012278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:53 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:14:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > pps: I'm sending this email as a pissed off FreeBSD user, not as a > pissed off Plan 9 user. Plan 9 is so detached from such debaucheries, > that their vile nature is incomprehensible to the average 9fan, thus > cannot drive him (her) to such curmudgeonry as witnessed in this > email. yeah, on Plan 9 you reboot and when you come up /lib/ndb/local is gone. Just happened this morning. Sorry, things have to improve on Plan 9, not that Linux is a model, but ... ron --upas-hfpljvmjkqrdfvcbdsrkgcykjy-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:19:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:19:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7276 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:19:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7272 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:19:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:19:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5440C19A32; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 493A3199EB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:19:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66D7A199DD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 829D5199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20031020210811.GA1374@ratsnest.hole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:17:48 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The dash is 'MINUS SIGN' (0x2212 - in utf-8: \xe2\x88\x92) > Disable UTF-8 locales to get rid of all that trouble. no, sorry. i _want_ to use utf-8 locale. the fact that it takes 10 years for linux to support it is just another reason for me to complain :) at least we stole their fonts :P From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:24:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:24:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7335 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:24:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7330 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:24:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:24:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2AAC199DD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B4CF19A85; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4435719A32; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BDB9B199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5364 invoked by uid 991); 20 Oct 2003 21:23:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20031020212302.5363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca message dated "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:17:48 -0600." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:23:01 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > at least we stole their fonts :P I just wish Bitstream Vera was a full unicode font, like Cyberbit. (It's especially nice because it comes in bold and italic variants.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:40:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:40:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7794 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:40:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7790 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:40:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:40:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2869E19A02; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7411619A26; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:40:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5348819A63; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BD6819A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KLdIZ2014416 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:39:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: "Skip Tavakkolian" In-Reply-To: <20031020212302.5363.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:39:18 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I just wish Bitstream Vera was a full unicode font, like Cyberbit. > (It's especially nice because it comes in bold and italic variants.) Any chance of getting Oberon's "syntax" font (I think that was the name)? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 06:41:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 06:41:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7838 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 06:41:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7834 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 06:41:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 06:41:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C970319AA0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DB3B19A9C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:41:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4C1B19AA0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00B5E19A88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 935DACC3E; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-ID: <20031020214007.GG1338@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 04:38:41PM -0700, Geoff Collyer wrote: > > I think the Linux kernel is hopeless and I don't want to run it: > ignoring its size, complexity and ugliness, it's just too buggy and > poorly designed. The thought of storing files that I value in a file > system implemented on top of that kernel makes me queasy. Then try not to think about all the poorly-designed, buggy hardware between the kernel and your bits. You'll lose your lunch. Yeah, Linux sucks, but it works well enough. I've had more trouble with my car, water softener, garage door opener, etc. than I've ever had with Linux filesystems. > It might be possible to construct a cage such that Linux drivers could > be compiled and run in Plan 9 kernels without causing too much damage > to the running system. I'd guess that each driver would require its own custom-made cage. Maybe that would be less work that re-implementing the entire driver, but I dunno. > I'd like to have a full-time person keeping up with new hardware > (processors and peripherals mainly), but I don't know how to fund such > a person. Much of the code could be shared with Inferno, so that > might help. The problem is finding someone with sufficient taste to write decent Plan 9-style drivers but low enough self-esteem to inflict monstrosities like USB on themselves daily. Good luck. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 07:44:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 07:44:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 9306 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 07:44:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 9302 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 07:44:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 07:44:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD44919A26; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FE3919A81; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 359A919A15; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79EB219A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KMhkl1014704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:46 -0400 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9KMhknM008665 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:46 -0400 Message-Id: <200310202243.h9KMhknM008665@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] laptop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:46 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My ancient ThinkPad has start emitting sparks, so I need to get a new laptop. I would, if possible, like it to run plan9 in hardware rather than emulation. The "supported hardware" list on the wiki looks a little out of date. Anyone have recent experience to share? My priorities, in decreasing order of importance are: weight, cost, plan9 compatibility, battery life, and speed. The thing also needs to boot FreeBSD, but I trust that anything plan9-compatible will satisfy that requirement. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 08:13:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 08:13:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10077 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 08:13:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10073 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 08:13:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 08:13:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 575BC19A03; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50F2119A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92B4519A03; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73E3B199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <045171c657d6dd054029ea0a915a3355@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:12:43 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm still waiting for fossil to settle down. I haven't yet been able to shutdown a fossil gracefully (with "fsys sync", a pause, then "fsys halt") and come back up without any missing blocks. I've had good experience with Ken's file server, though perhaps the best part of that is automatic nightly dumps to stable, write-once optical storage. I haven't had bad experiences with Linux file systems; I was saying that I'd be queasy to swap out a Plan 9 kernel and replace it with a Linux kernel. I can't see how replacing a relatively small and well-written kernel with a large and sprawling kernel written by a cast of hundreds, if not thousands, could improve reliability, robustness or correctness of the kernel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 08:16:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 08:16:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10152 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 08:16:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10148 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 08:16:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 08:16:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 687E319A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B17B19A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E5B219A15; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47EBC19A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <200310202243.h9KMhknM008665@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:14:55 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The "supported hardware" list on the wiki looks a little out of date. Sadly, the list is quite current -- I updated the IBM ThinkPad section 10 days ago... The only real issue that you'll face is the graphics card support. Looking at ibm.ca, all their ThinkPads come with radeon graphics, for which there are Plan 9 drivers, but mileage may vary -- I can't use them on my T30, but somebody else is perfectly fine with them, with the only difference being that my display is 1024x768, his is 1400x1050... I don't know the state of the Dell or Toshiba laptops -- I haven't seen anyone except undergrads use them, and that's all XP. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 09:11:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 09:11:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12191 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 09:11:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12174 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 09:11:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 09:11:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0221199BF; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4287519A97; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B58DC19A69; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB46219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9L0Ai5u007587; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id h9L0Aibd026327; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id h9L0AeY20608; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:10:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031020171039.A20559@submarine> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Subject: [9fans] Re: your mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:10:40 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Roman Shaposhnick wrote: > > I always wanted to see how many applications would break if I were to, > > lets say, disable shared memory from SysV API. It could be a nice > > experiment to do on a live contemporary distro -- just pick a set of > > obscure interfaces and see how many applications are really using > > any of it. > > Just because something isn't much used doesn't prove that > it isn't essential to have for a few cases where it is used. > In the case of shared memory, more recent apps use threads > instead of separate processes sharing memory. Threads > weren't available when shared memory was added. And that's why it's important to find out how many applications out there are still using it. From my personal perspective, shm is not a good thing and it should be avoided. It's the same story when P9 (or should I say 9P) broke the long-standing promise of having a file around as long as you don't close it. Turned out -- not that many apps failed. Or so I was told, anyway. Thanks, Roman. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 10:04:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 10:04:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15235 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 10:04:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15215 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 10:04:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 10:04:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A24219A3E; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA91A19A85; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01E7A19A85; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2399719A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9L13Sl1024881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:28 -0400 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9L13SnM002551 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:28 -0400 Message-Id: <200310210103.h9L13SnM002551@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] laptop Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The only real issue that you'll face is the graphics card support. > Looking at ibm.ca, all their ThinkPads come with radeon graphics, for > which there are Plan 9 drivers, but mileage may vary -- I can't use > them on my T30, but somebody else is perfectly fine with them, with > the only difference being that my display is 1024x768, his is > 1400x1050... Thanks for the information. T30 is outside my price range. I could get a T23, though. That seems to come with an S3 SuperSavage/IX, which should probably be supported. Please correct me if I am wrong on that. Another option is a Fujitsu S2020. It's lighter and faster--Athlon 1900+ rather than PIII-M 1.13--and about the same cost. Is there any hope of getting that to work? The graphics chipset is ATI Radeon IGP 320M. Has anyone ever got plan9 to work on this chipset? It should be more or less the same as a Radeon 9000. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 10:17:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 10:17:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15950 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 10:17:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15930 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 10:16:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 10:16:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35B1219AA8; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81B2619A69; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:16:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36A3A199D1; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB11219991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5063e887c4a2d79b261d7dda37da63a8@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <045171c657d6dd054029ea0a915a3355@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:16:30 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've had good experience with Ken's file server, though perhaps the > best part of that is automatic nightly dumps to stable, write-once > optical storage. That's the point I wish, although I'm using emulated WORM on scsi disks. I have no doubt what kinds of bad will happen on my file server. The file server is out of my consideration when something bad happened. This is the very point I expect to the new file server. I have no such skill to write such an exellent file server, and I'm not complaining to anyone who are developping it. However, if we must concentrate our power to something, I'd like to say it's the file server. I can continue to make Plan 9 more usable to may by writing some applications though. However, OS itself is not my bussiness.☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 10:35:32 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 10:35:32 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16941 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 10:35:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16853 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 10:31:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 10:31:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A7A5A19A14; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4695019AA2; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AD2019A93; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A930519A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <200310210103.h9L13SnM002551@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:30:41 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Thanks for the information. T30 is outside my price range. I could > get a T23, though. That seems to come with an S3 SuperSavage/IX, which > should probably be supported. LANL has had a T23 running Plan 9. Both Ron and I have run a T21 with the same S3 chipset. I had it dual booting FreeBSD and Plan 9. http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/newnetwork/term.html Unfortunately you won't see any info on how to get the T23 running on the page above, but it should be similar to the T21. The RADEON driver is something I can't comment on, since I don't have my laptop working with it. If Philippe Anel has the time and patience it would be helpful to have yet another radeon laptop to test his driver on. andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 10:44:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 10:44:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17452 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 10:43:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17332 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 10:42:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 10:42:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA1BC19A69; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E18019A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:42:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9510919AAA; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2592D19A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1eac98beaaa975f9759f5ac200c7b3bf@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bzypdbjsripgzpzmxwjxkayfcg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:45 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bzypdbjsripgzpzmxwjxkayfcg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We all run on T23's at the labs. If you can get one at a fire sale, it works fine. Ours have crufty 1024x768 screens but Russ had one with a 1400xsomething screen which seemed a lot nicer. We don't know how to run the soft modem though, I bought a pcmcia one for $30 at compusa. --upas-bzypdbjsripgzpzmxwjxkayfcg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 21:31:36 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 21:31:33 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2836819AA6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71FA219A92; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AD2019A93; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A930519A8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <200310210103.h9L13SnM002551@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:30:41 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Thanks for the information. T30 is outside my price range. I could > get a T23, though. That seems to come with an S3 SuperSavage/IX, which > should probably be supported. LANL has had a T23 running Plan 9. Both Ron and I have run a T21 with the same S3 chipset. I had it dual booting FreeBSD and Plan 9. http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/newnetwork/term.html Unfortunately you won't see any info on how to get the T23 running on the page above, but it should be similar to the T21. The RADEON driver is something I can't comment on, since I don't have my laptop working with it. If Philippe Anel has the time and patience it would be helpful to have yet another radeon laptop to test his driver on. andrey --upas-bzypdbjsripgzpzmxwjxkayfcg-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 11:03:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 11:03:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18707 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 11:03:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18702 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 11:03:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 11:03:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F4DF19995; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B356319A63; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B97F9199FB; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA00119995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABlq1-0007Bh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:01:33 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: orc@pell.portland.or.us (david parsons) Message-ID: Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units References: <560bf571b8195e2767f06ffc580f1fb6@vitanuova.com>, <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 20 Oct 2003 18:14:18 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Patrick R. Wade wrote: >In article <43bc6b835731c3c823fdd658cb28775e@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, >mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: >> >>i think Geoff is right -- without somebody being able to work >>full-time on those things nothing will get done. the bubble burst and >>the code that depended on developers' spare time is moving ahead >>slower and slower -- see how long it took for FBSD 5.0 to come out. >> > >Which seems kind of backwards; one would expect the bubble bursting to >leave lots of developers with *more* spare time than before... Not necessarily. Being unemployed takes you away from your nice remote office where you can work on your open source(r)(tm)(c) project after hours and during lunch and puts you at home, where, aside from the exciting job of writing PLEASE HIRE ME letters, sending resumes, and looking for more victims to send resumes to, you become available to the rest of your family. I'm guessing that in the two years of recovery that I've enjoyed I've done less open source(r)(tm)(c) coding than I've ever done since before I was a college student, and the largest chunk of that coding has been sneaking off to do 5-6 hour keep-my-fingers-dirty exercises. ____ david parsons \bi/ Grrr. \/ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 11:49:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 11:49:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21585 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 11:49:27 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21516 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 11:48:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 11:48:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3507F19A6F; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3EDF19A67; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C777319A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8639319A03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61de700be52af3673dfa66e55f3c8056@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <5063e887c4a2d79b261d7dda37da63a8@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:48:33 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I meant the way should be on only one road, that is fossil+venti file server if possible. Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 12:20:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 12:20:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23332 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 12:20:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23327 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 12:20:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 12:20:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D422519A1C; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D5B019A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33D4A19A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (rrcs-nys-24-97-137-50.biz.rr.com [24.97.137.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 804A6199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABn39-0000GU-Px for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:19:11 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:43:46 EDT." <200310202243.h9KMhknM008665@math.Princeton.EDU> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1020.1066706351.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:19:11 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > My ancient ThinkPad has start emitting sparks, so I need to > get a new laptop. I would, if possible, like it to run plan9 > in hardware rather than emulation. The "supported hardware" > list on the wiki looks a little out of date. Anyone have > recent experience to share? My priorities, in decreasing order > of importance are: weight, cost, plan9 compatibility, battery > life, and speed. The thing also needs to boot FreeBSD, but > I trust that anything plan9-compatible will satisfy that > requirement. The IBM T23 is your best bet for an IBM laptop (it's fully supported). Anything newer is too weird, even for some of the Unixes. I am suffering through a T40 right now (dropped my T23 on the ground). Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 12:25:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 12:25:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23559 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 12:25:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23552 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 12:24:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 12:24:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 955AE19A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BDCD19A69; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F48019A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (rrcs-nys-24-97-137-50.biz.rr.com [24.97.137.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B737E199DD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABn7W-0000HP-8Z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:23:42 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:12:43 PDT." <045171c657d6dd054029ea0a915a3355@collyer.net> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1077.1066706622.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:23:42 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I'm still waiting for fossil to settle down. I haven't yet been able > to shutdown a fossil gracefully (with "fsys sync", a pause, then "fsys > halt") and come back up without any missing blocks. The missing block thing is a red herring, I think. I suspect that flchk misses some blocks that are actually reachable, and that we leak maybe a block or two per snapshot. Either way it hasn't seemed major enough to make time to track it down. What I really like about fossil is that once the data hits Venti you know it's not going to be corrupted by bugs in Fossil. Almost all of the fossil development that I did was done using fossil itself as my file server. When I trashed the write buffer, I always had the score from the last archival snapshot (I took archival snapshots before rebooting with any new code) to save my neck. That alone makes me feel good enough about it to use for real data. Especially now that my Venti server is mirrored across two different-model 200GB IDE drives. > I've had good experience with Ken's file server, though perhaps the > best part of that is automatic nightly dumps to stable, write-once > optical storage. Right, this is how I feel about the Venti archives. > I haven't had bad experiences with Linux file systems; I was saying > that I'd be queasy to swap out a Plan 9 kernel and replace it with a > Linux kernel. I can't see how replacing a relatively small and > well-written kernel with a large and sprawling kernel written by a > cast of hundreds, if not thousands, could improve reliability, > robustness or correctness of the kernel. I have talked to a few people who independently claim that if you start Linux running lots of fs accesses and then pull the plug, fsck never fully recovers, even in ext3. I haven't verified these claims, but I trust the people who told me. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 12:33:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 12:33:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24273 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 12:33:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24250 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 12:33:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 12:33:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B835C19A69; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E00719A60; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:33:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F3D819A00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28629199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:33:03 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > real data. Especially now that my Venti server is mirrored > across two different-model 200GB IDE drives. How about IDE problem which Niger wrote. I've been using only scsi disks for our old file server, and now start to use IDE disks for our new fossil+venti... Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 13:02:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 13:02:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25825 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 13:02:03 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25642 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 12:57:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 12:57:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCBEB199D6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86EB419A84; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C592199D6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (rrcs-nys-24-97-137-50.biz.rr.com [24.97.137.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10B3F19A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABndH-0000Nf-HE for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:56:31 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:33:03 +0900." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1465.1066708591.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:56:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > real data. Especially now that my Venti server is mirrored > > across two different-model 200GB IDE drives. > > How about IDE problem which Niger wrote. That's why I'm mirroring across two different-model 200GB drives. The theory is that they're not that likely to fail simultaneously. If you believe that a drive will fail once a year (which I think is high) then two drives independently failing together will happen once every few centuries, which is low enough that I can worry about other problems, like my apartment catching fire. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 13:15:01 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 13:15:01 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26347 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 13:14:32 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25931 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 13:02:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 13:02:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CBFF199D6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10C5319A82; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:02:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7579219A2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 752BF199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9L41LaJ008114 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:01:21 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9L41KBo001965 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:01:20 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9L41KCA027975 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:01:20 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:01:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > every few centuries, which is low enough that I can worry about > other problems, like my apartment catching fire. especially if you keep dropping T23s left and right :-) ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 14:24:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 14:24:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30743 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 14:24:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30733 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 14:24:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 14:24:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72C14199E6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F06B19A70; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1763119A6F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftdaeid (unknown [202.71.146.197]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5A605199E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:23:04 -0400 (EDT) From: William Slonosky To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20031021052304.5A605199E6@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: our members are serious about finding that special someone vwcnt Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:22:08 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.3 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,RCVD_IN_NJABL,RCVD_IN_OPM version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Jump start your love life. With millions of members, there's somebody for everyone - and that means you! Click below to join for free: http://alwaysfeelgreat1.com/romance/ To update your list options: alwaysfeelgreat1.com/re/ Applicant interrupted interview to phone her therapist for advice on how to answer specific interview questions. `Like a military academy,' said Arthur, `bits of me keep passing out.'" .... Candidate explained that her long-term goals was to replace the interviewer. "`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of Thursdays.'" hctcvjeaivdysldoyqtvxhjtdiwscaomckqxuubdsgeos From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 14:41:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 14:41:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31702 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 14:41:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31698 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 14:41:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 14:41:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19DE0199E6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73E4619A82; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:41:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8294C199E6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9308B19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9L5eVnK019845 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:40:31 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h9L5eVWF019841 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:40:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:40:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > even for some of the Unixes. I am suffering through > a T40 right now (dropped my T23 on the ground). > If you're trying Philippe Anel's Radeon driver, do give it a higher color depth. What doesn't work in 16bpp may in fact be fine in 32bpp... andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 15:09:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 15:09:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 622 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 15:09:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 618 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 15:09:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 15:09:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC36719A60; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED3EF19A70; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 189B419A6D; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA6.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha6.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FB71199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.83]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L23HGK3Y528ZNIVF@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:07:41 +1000 Received: from splat.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE64223C003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:07:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (nbk-9978.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.170]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by splat.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB7B164002 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:07:41 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 In-reply-to: <7cc363f14ba5668eaf8d9247a2dab077@centurytel.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F94CD2A.10505@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031008 Thunderbird/0.3 References: <7cc363f14ba5668eaf8d9247a2dab077@centurytel.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:07:38 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >>Maybe the thing to do is seek out several of the smart >>minds in Microsoft R&D, who are bound to see the problems >>but might not have seen the solution, and engage them in >>dialogues. If you make enough impact, perhaps it would >>begin moving the dominant OS line in the right direction, >>eventually enabling protocol-compatible OSes with different >>higher-level interfaces to compete. > It appears they've already (re)invented it. It is called WinFS and as > is usual practice it will probably have something like 9P but > different; There is very little information about it, but it is presumably > part of Longhorn and they're saying look for it around 2005-06. As far as I can tell, WinFS is more the addition of vast amounts of meta-data to the file system. Nothing about the underlying protocol to talk back and forth between things. From http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp "Longhorn will include a database-like file system add-on called Windows Future Storage (WinFS), which is based on technology from SQL Server 2003 (code-named Yukon). This file system add-on will abstract physical file locations from the user and allow for the sorts of complex data searching that are impossible today. For example, today, your email messages, contacts, Word documents, and music files are all completely separate. That won't be the case in Longhorn. WinFS requires NTFS." Adrian --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:ajft@ajft.org Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 15:37:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 15:37:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2245 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 15:37:04 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1824 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 15:29:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 15:29:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 518C719A91; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5965219A97; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86C1819A6D; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9fs.org (cotswold.demon.co.uk [194.222.75.186]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D2064199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.100.111] (helo=blue) by 9fs.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABq2e-00055n-If for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:30:52 +0100 From: "Nigel Roles" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:28:18 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,MSGID_GOOD_EXCHANGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu wrote: >>> real data. Especially now that my Venti server is mirrored >>> across two different-model 200GB IDE drives. >> >> How about IDE problem which Niger wrote. > > That's why I'm mirroring across two different-model 200GB drives. > The theory is that they're not that likely to fail simultaneously. > If you believe that a drive will fail once a year (which I think is > high) then two drives independently failing together will happen once > every few centuries, which is low enough that I can worry about > other problems, like my apartment catching fire. > > Russ It's certainly true that simultaneous failures are unlikely, and you should check your fire extinguisher in your apartment, but I think Geoff made the point a while back that the probability of failure for every given day is not 1/365.25; it starts high, drops to near zero, and then climbs rapidly in the few months before the warranty runs out. This is the "bath tub reliability curve". Also, if I cannot get to my machine for a few weeks, this significantly widens the window for a simultaneous failure. I think a few centuries is optimistic. In my case I'm more interested in having someone else already worked out how to replace and rebuild a drive when it fails, hence a need for a reputable RAID BIOS. Mentioning no names, our experience with SCSI U320 drives (i.e. the des. res. drives of the moment) is that price is not a guide to reliability. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 16:35:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 16:35:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5598 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 16:35:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5590 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 16:35:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 16:35:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6550719A9C; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0036F19A70; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:35:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89B0819A91; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-01.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BD1419A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 37468371 invoked by uid 0); 21 Oct 2003 07:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.168]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 21 Oct 2003 07:34:30 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031021091733.064dad50@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] laptop In-Reply-To: References: <200310210103.h9L13SnM002551@math.Princeton.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:35:23 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 03:30 21/10/03, you wrote: > > > > Thanks for the information. T30 is outside my price range. I could > > get a T23, though. That seems to come with an S3 SuperSavage/IX, which > > should probably be supported. > >LANL has had a T23 running Plan 9. Both Ron and I have run a T21 with >the same S3 chipset. I had it dual booting FreeBSD and Plan 9. > > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/newnetwork/term.html > >Unfortunately you won't see any info on how to get the T23 running on >the page above, but it should be similar to the T21. > >The RADEON driver is something I can't comment on, since I don't have >my laptop working with it. If Philippe Anel has the time and patience >it would be helpful to have yet another radeon laptop to test his >driver on. Hello, I now could spare a few hours to work on the driver. Since I haven't the hardware to work on it and still no specs, I have to deal with the XFree86 driver sources and my radeon 8500 with DVI output (nearly same code for laptops). Moreover, it's seems there is problems with the hardware acceleration code and I still don't understand why. Regards, Philippe Anel. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 17:05:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 17:05:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7407 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 17:05:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7403 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 17:05:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 17:05:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C79B319A6F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC0B619AA9; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16AD519A6F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2796419A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7726650d11686c34f6885f4fbd2dc3fc@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:37:57 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > other problems, like my apartment catching fire. Seems to me there are other possible external causes of multiple disk failure which are more likely than that one - e.g. spike on the power line (or don't you get those in the USA?) or air conditioning failure during a heatwave. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 18:06:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 18:06:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11261 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 18:06:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11255 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 18:06:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 18:06:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CEE119AAA; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 761D819AA2; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:06:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DD2319A63; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (tajfun.atc.cz [62.168.57.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5514019A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:53 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F94F6B5.000001.15140@file1> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] Q: libdraw, loadimage, allocimage Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi! could anyone, please, help me? i have no problem with line, fillelipse, bezier and so on. but i can't put bitmap image onto screen. i red man, draw.h, faces, but my code is not working.=20 could you show me the solution for this code: uchar bitmap[]=3D{0xff,0x00.......} /* CMAP8 image */ image=3Dallocimage("help me here!"); loadimage(image,bitmap,sizeof(bitmap),"help me here!"); draw("help me here!"); thank everyone for help :-) Sasa Babic (a.b@email.cz) _________________________________________________________________________= _______ Aktu=E1ln=EC: Sout=EC=BEte o su=B9i=E8ku pr=E1dla Ariston A 46 C s Obchod= n=EDm domem.cz na http://www.email.cz/obchodnidum From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 18:33:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 18:33:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12509 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 18:33:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 18:33:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 18:33:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 890EF19ADE; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E25D819AF9; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:33:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB77919ABF; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5F9519AF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABsp3-0005as-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:29:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ByteMeDammit Message-ID: Organization: Bresnan Online Subject: [9fans] Trident9000i success? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:28:46 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Curious if anybody has been able to use this chipset successfully? I have an old HP Netserver LH Pro 6/200 that I keep Slackware on and i thought it'd be fun to play around with Plan9. Have run into a few hardware snags. First off, the video. Second, NetRaid (Symbios Logic 53c7xx) and Adaptec AIC-7880 (all-in-one aha2940uw). Neither of which seem to be supported? Hate to drag out an old IDE drive! But, I will if I can sidestep the vga issue! Any info or advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks, ByteMeDammit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 18:49:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 18:49:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13046 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 18:49:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13042 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 18:49:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 18:49:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5728619ACD; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1792819AB8; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 434201998A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42B2319AC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69d398d65865bd64b82d74e0c4ae1c2d@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: <045171c657d6dd054029ea0a915a3355@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:39:54 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // ...though perhaps the best part of that is automatic nightly dumps // to stable, write-once optical storage. that and the fact that it NEVER crashed. despite serious pounding and software that almost seemed to by trying to crash it (remember the web browser interface to the jukebox?). again, there's some distinction to be made here between the file *system* and the file *server*. was ken's file *system* good? certainly. but longer file names would've been nice, and spaces (no, not for anything i create, but for importing!). but ken's file *server* was bullet-proof. some other file *systems* i've used have seemed quite good, as well. but no file *server* comes close. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 19:08:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 19:08:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13754 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 19:08:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13750 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 19:08:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 19:08:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F075619B08; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFFC219AF5; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:08:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92B2F19AB2; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2FC719B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5c462d7248e29ccf0509df14c95d2fea@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] cpu and term in different time zones? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:02:28 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) is it possible to have a cpu server and a terminal booted from it in different time zones, and have times/dates be correct on each? can i bind something onto /adm/timezone/local early enough, or is it the case (as i fear) that the kernel checks that very early on and it would have to be exported by the root file server pre-bound? i don't expect cpu windows and the like to be correct. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 19:17:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 19:17:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14226 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 19:17:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14221 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 19:17:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 19:17:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9793719B2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 27AC619B2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:17:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBD7919B2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED0F619B09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABtYh-0007Zi-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:16:11 +0200 Received: from [203.145.153.4] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABtYf-0001ly-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:16:10 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, a@9srv.net Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization Message-Id: <20031021154451.7dcb10c8.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> References: <2ac5be8bf0047fa964b6c7068ab24559@9srv.net> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:44:51 +0530 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:37:01 -0400 a@9srv.net wrote: > a few times someone (ehg?) has talked about work > being done to get venti working on other OSs, and >... Well, perhaps now is a good time to own up! (Sorry for the delay in responding, but we had to write a web-page first!) I have been working on a re-implementation of Venti - initially for Linux, but it should be easy to port the core functionality to other Unix-like platforms, and eventually to Windows (I suppose...). This is not a port of Venti, but a rewrite from scratch - I have not seen/got the Venti source, although I have read the paper, and the man pages. I'm using the same basic ideas of Venti, but also making a number of different technical tradeoffs. Some of these trade-offs still need to be validated in practice (I'm working on it! :-). Before some of you get too excited - it isn't protocol-compatible with Venti (at least, I don't think it is! That would be too much of a coincidence! (see above) :-) Our goal is to release this as a shareware-style product, hopefully this year, for a price that would be consistent with your $100/machine. I hadn't put a Mac OS X version high on the agenda - should I reconsider? :-) See http://www.parvat.com/products/eternal for more information. Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 19:17:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 19:17:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14263 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 19:17:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14259 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 19:17:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 19:17:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3304F19B30; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80A4919AF7; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:17:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9FC519AEB; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A71B919B28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABtYq-0001Fd-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:16:20 +0200 Received: from [203.145.153.4] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ABtYn-0005q9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:16:19 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] porting from vs. porting to Plan 9 Message-Id: <20031021154459.160ee15c.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <3F90958F.7040300@nospam.com> References: <3F90958F.7040300@nospam.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:44:59 +0530 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:21:19 -0400 bs wrote: >.. > > a person. Much of the code could be shared with Inferno, so that > > might help. > Probably do it all in India??? Just kidding :-) Why kidding? I'm sitting in India - you send the money, and I'll hire the army... :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 19:27:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 19:27:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14666 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 19:27:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14662 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 19:27:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 19:27:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5297A19AF3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3418419AD1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:27:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E97B219A2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 452AB199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8735a00d21e9a918ccdeb76093e1fec3@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <20031021154451.7dcb10c8.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:20:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) the fact that it's not protocol-compatable does lower (but not totally eliminate) its value to me. if your version doesn't run on Plan 9 and host fossil, that does, as well. on the other hand, even the ideas are worth a lot, and if you can put file systems on top of it (like fossil does, rather than just using it as an archival vault) that my unix systems can use, that's a big win. those first two points make me skeptical, but i'll be checking it out today. fix those two (so why didn't you use the venti code?) and provide a few tools my VP of Marketing can use, and get an OS X port, and i'll buy a few coppies. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 21:06:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 21:06:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18018 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 21:06:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18014 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 21:06:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 21:06:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98F0E19AC8; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C30F19AF1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:06:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C94E119A08; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F2E719AC8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4843efc2c8125f1cd4810802543c5fd2@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:05:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) mine has survived dropping twice. I'm impressed. First time I stepped out onto stairs covered with ice and it broke my fall. Second time the strap on my bag gave out while I was bicycling to work. Both times the case fell apart but precious little damage to the plastic and none to the machine or disk. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 22:48:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 22:48:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20450 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 22:48:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20446 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 22:48:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 22:48:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20F8119A08; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE98919A97; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8D3D19A90; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 006161998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABwiz-0002WV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Oleg Cherkasov Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:37:59 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) presotto@closedmind.org (David Presotto) wrote in message news:... > Does ctl alt del do anything when its locked up? Yes it does, I may reboot the computer and got 'cpu0: halt' message indeed. I managed go up to files copy section in TEXT ONLY INSTALL and it finished OK but keyboard was locked by that time already :-( From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:02:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:02:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20815 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:02:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20811 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:02:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:02:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4256519A88; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3E3A19A02; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E690E19A84; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nanionic.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc106.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDEBD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88d8e2add78e9f08ceaa62a7f8bcb2bc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:01:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I do not totally agree with some of the linux comments I have seen here. > My experience is that Plan 9 file systems are less reliable than linux > file systems, and both of these are less reliable then freebsd, and none > of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX > machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. We use fossil here. On your terminals you can just reboot. I have never lost a file and find if the most reliable system I ever saw (snapshots make it even user-proof). I cross my fingers anyway... Gorka From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:13:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:13:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21154 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:13:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21150 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:13:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:13:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4260919A32; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EB7919A93; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1631219A90; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DD0E19A32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1d8958a70db52b9bd5ee9e8e77a9474c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:11:52 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Oct 21 09:48:47 EDT 2003, oleg@tiscali.no wrote: > presotto@closedmind.org (David Presotto) wrote in message news:... > > Does ctl alt del do anything when its locked up? > > Yes it does, I may reboot the computer and got 'cpu0: halt' message > indeed. > > I managed go up to files copy section in TEXT ONLY INSTALL and it > finished OK but keyboard was locked by that time already :-( What is your BIOS revision number and how much memory do you have? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:18:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:18:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21229 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:18:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21225 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:18:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:18:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5948519992; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2420419AB0; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:18:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7761119A9E; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D32E419A93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Trident9000i success? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:17:12 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) That's a chip we have no support for. As far as I can tell it has no hardware cursor and pre-dates the generation of Trident chips we handle. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:22:34 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:22:34 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21395 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:22:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21391 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:22:33 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:22:33 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6374B19AC6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8A3619AAB; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:22:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9CEA6199FD; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6342419AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: libdraw, loadimage, allocimage From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <3F94F6B5.000001.15140@file1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zoirkbsvtjdfxspjcabzjzhokc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:21:47 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zoirkbsvtjdfxspjcabzjzhokc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a long winded reply which died with my drawterm, unfortunately... Anyway, take a look at the example I've attached here, and also at the xscr hacks: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/xscr/xscr.tar.gz The key with loadimage() is to avoid using it if possible -- it circumvents optimizations in the draw() design by loading data over the network all the time. Very slow over slow networks. Compare for example 'eruption', which does 'loadimage' for the entire display, rd-bomb, which does loadimage of a 256x256 bitmap, and polyominoes, which uses pre-allocated color palette stored on the display machine and see which one is faster... andrey --upas-zoirkbsvtjdfxspjcabzjzhokc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=bmap.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include #include #include #include void eresized(int new) { USED(new); exits("done"); } void main(int argc, char **argv) { Image *img; Mouse m; uchar bmp[256]; ulong tick = 0; int i; USED(argc, argv); if(initdraw(nil, nil, "bmap") < 0) sysfatal("initdraw failed: %r"); einit(Emouse); img = allocimage(display, Rect(0, 0, 16, 16), CMAP8, 1, DCyan); if(img == nil) sysfatal("cannot allocate image: %r\n"); /* set so it replicates over the entire window */ replclipr(img, 1, Rect(0, 0, Dx(screen->r), Dy(screen->r))); for(;;) { for(i = 0; i < 256; i++) bmp[i] = tick++; tick++; /* fill it up with whatever is in bitmap */ loadimage(img, Rect(0, 0, 16, 16), bmp, 16*16); /* draw it over the entire screen */ draw(screen, screen->r, img, nil, ZP); flushimage(display, 1); if(ecanmouse()) { m = emouse(); if(m.buttons) exits(0); } } } --upas-zoirkbsvtjdfxspjcabzjzhokc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:27:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:27:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21603 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:27:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21599 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:27:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:27:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82DF019ABF; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80F8919A9E; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:27:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CF7519AB3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA15919A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53274205034b36c3976ada8f51f9c8c4@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <8735a00d21e9a918ccdeb76093e1fec3@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue Oct 21 06:27:39 EDT 2003, a@9srv.net wrote: > ... > those first two points make me skeptical, but i'll be checking it > out today. fix those two (so why didn't you use the venti code?) > and provide a few tools my VP of Marketing can use, and get an > OS X port, and i'll buy a few coppies. > ã‚¢ The feeling around here is that the Plan 9 Venti code is not a good base with which to start a port. There may be a re-implementation at some point, and it will be interesting to compare the tradeoffs each version makes. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 21 23:37:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 21 23:37:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21912 invoked by uid 1020); 21 Oct 2003 23:37:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21908 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 23:37:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 23:37:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98EF9199FD; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D566319AC1; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:37:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0540C199FD; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FE2619988 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <765701e8cf4f1f673fd9b80b15a17b81@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ilereqhlurrqoocxtnshtkpkia" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:36:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ilereqhlurrqoocxtnshtkpkia Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If ctl-alt-del works, the keyboard isn't locked up; some part of the system is. Try typing ^t^tp and see if it tells you what processes are running. --upas-ilereqhlurrqoocxtnshtkpkia Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Oct 21 09:48:43 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Oct 21 09:48:40 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4017919AA8; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA613199BF; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8D3D19A90; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 006161998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABwiz-0002WV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:39:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Oleg Cherkasov Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:37:59 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable presotto@closedmind.org (David Presotto) wrote in message news:... > Does ctl alt del do anything when its locked up? Yes it does, I may reboot the computer and got 'cpu0: halt' message indeed. I managed go up to files copy section in TEXT ONLY INSTALL and it finished OK but keyboard was locked by that time already :-( --upas-ilereqhlurrqoocxtnshtkpkia-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 00:39:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 00:39:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23485 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 00:39:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23481 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 00:39:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 00:39:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E74E19A90; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3565119A93; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:39:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAE5019A21; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AECD1998A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <53274205034b36c3976ada8f51f9c8c4@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) that's very interesting. my comment about "why rewrite" wasn't intended to necessarily imply it should've been done that way, although i realize it probably came off that way. what about the current implementation is at issue? and (the big question) is it expected that the new stuff will be protocol compatable? ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 01:03:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 01:03:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23979 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 01:03:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23975 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 01:03:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 01:03:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 508EA1998A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D84FE19A1C; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4DA1998A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 578B119A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69c060565669c0bac7bc531ec3e40ddf@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <88d8e2add78e9f08ceaa62a7f8bcb2bc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:05:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit whether it's RS6000 with JFS, Linux, log-structured file systems or fossil, unless writes are write-through to disc, if you simply reset the machine, i'd expect you stand a good chance of losing data you've written just (ie, instantly) before the reset (unless the system somehow intercepts the reset). the systems might use one or more of journalling, soft-writes, or ordered writes to ensure the logical consistency of the stored file system data and metadata, if the system is interrupted at arbitrary points. but nevertheless, unless they buffer all modified data through intermediate NVRAM that they pick up after a boot, that's just the consistency on storage, and you'll lose whatever doesn't get to disc before the reset (or if the device can't write it before power fails). it might check cleanly, because the metadata is consistent, but a file is empty! --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1ABx5p-0006LI-Bk; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:02:38 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ABx5p-0006LI-Bk; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:02:37 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 763C519A32; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E3019A88; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E690E19A84; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nanionic.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc106.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDEBD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88d8e2add78e9f08ceaa62a7f8bcb2bc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:01:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I do not totally agree with some of the linux comments I have seen here. > My experience is that Plan 9 file systems are less reliable than linux > file systems, and both of these are less reliable then freebsd, and none > of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX > machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. We use fossil here. On your terminals you can just reboot. I have never lost a file and find if the most reliable system I ever saw (snapshots make it even user-proof). I cross my fingers anyway... Gorka --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 01:06:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 01:06:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24379 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 01:06:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24375 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 01:06:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 01:06:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C56A19A2A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C83E619A69; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:06:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B8B419A23; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [65.39.243.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 022CC19A00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:05:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mightycheese.com (adsl-67-120-93-190.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.120.93.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9LG58nj021071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:05:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20031021154451.7dcb10c8.martin@parvat.com> Message-Id: <6587E314-03E0-11D8-90F1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:05:31 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > Before some of you get too excited - it isn't protocol-compatible > with Venti (at least, I don't think it is! That would be > too much of a coincidence! (see above) :-) you should make it protocol-compatible. can't be hard. ask for the details. > I hadn't put a Mac OS X version high on the agenda - should I > reconsider? :-) > yes. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 01:48:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 01:48:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26051 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 01:48:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26047 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 01:48:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 01:48:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A70C719AA9; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB3ED19A82; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:48:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FAA3199EB; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A79E919A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <6587E314-03E0-11D8-90F1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ulhfwqygqcwkgluswigphwcoyx" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:50:22 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ulhfwqygqcwkgluswigphwcoyx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > you should make it protocol-compatible. can't be hard. > ask for the details. i did most of a venti client-side module for inferno. attached + documentation for anyone that might find it useful. --upas-ulhfwqygqcwkgluswigphwcoyx Content-Type: application/x-tar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=venti.tgz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIAKxjlT8AA+08a3PbRpL5SvyKCV2OyIiiSephm5J8ZSfKylXexEVpc7mT9QEkhhIiEGAA ULI21v3268c8AVCPu9utui0j5RAz09Pd093T3fOA+i+++Yc/QoiXu7sCf4UYVH5VQbx8ubM7 2hvube9CeWe4N/xG7D6Z0tfnqU//xbVMy7g/fXLPxz+g0L2dnXX6397eGe5Y/Q+GULe7s/fy G/FkQl+fJz/xYpnIBZiA+BXtYD8I4nSWrCIp2sVt0V+094MWvIzFyW2xb9vYaLA1ePf+9NXJ f45bsywVw30sDvd0eUTl7ZEu71B5x8Dv7QcnP/wyOVLQAyieTsYtKilE+8HxWDjlTaanfvZb 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+0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBC6F19A9E; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31F0B19A70; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:48:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C32AD19A21; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0835A19A6F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1ABzSL-0005to-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ByteMeDammit Message-ID: Organization: Bresnan Online References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] Trident9000i success? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:33:52 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thanks for the response, jmk. Guess I need to dig up a card witha chipset on the list! Looks like I'll need an IDE HDD too. Neither of these SCSI controllers seems to be recognized... ByteMeDammit wrote in message news:b2748d9b3ccfea842f0ae3e3f28b31d1@plan9.bell-labs.com... > That's a chip we have no support for. As far as I can tell it has no > hardware cursor and pre-dates the generation of Trident chips we handle. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 02:13:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 02:13:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27017 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 02:13:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 02:13:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 02:13:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24E5819A21; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2607919A7A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E10BE19A60; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35D8F19A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b018dfb0698e455458b9cdfa9614bea@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <69c060565669c0bac7bc531ec3e40ddf@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lpqexevptsxxagoiuhxgtpuhco" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:11:47 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lpqexevptsxxagoiuhxgtpuhco Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's no disagreement b/w you two. Our terminals are diskless, so a Twrite was already made and probably you also got your Rwrite (because you saw the buffer status changed in acme); a reset suffices. Of course, the file server is a world appart, and we halt it prior to reset (we do the same for local fossils on terminals). --upas-lpqexevptsxxagoiuhxgtpuhco Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Oct 21 18:03:43 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8620419A06; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D84FE19A1C; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4DA1998A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 578B119A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:02:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69c060565669c0bac7bc531ec3e40ddf@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <88d8e2add78e9f08ceaa62a7f8bcb2bc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:05:28 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit whether it's RS6000 with JFS, Linux, log-structured file systems or fossil, unless writes are write-through to disc, if you simply reset the machine, i'd expect you stand a good chance of losing data you've written just (ie, instantly) before the reset (unless the system somehow intercepts the reset). the systems might use one or more of journalling, soft-writes, or ordered writes to ensure the logical consistency of the stored file system data and metadata, if the system is interrupted at arbitrary points. but nevertheless, unless they buffer all modified data through intermediate NVRAM that they pick up after a boot, that's just the consistency on storage, and you'll lose whatever doesn't get to disc before the reset (or if the device can't write it before power fails). it might check cleanly, because the metadata is consistent, but a file is empty! --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1ABx5p-0006LI-Bk; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:02:38 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ABx5p-0006LI-Bk; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:02:37 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 763C519A32; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74E3019A88; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:02:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E690E19A84; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nanionic.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc106.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDEBD19A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <88d8e2add78e9f08ceaa62a7f8bcb2bc@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:01:20 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I do not totally agree with some of the linux comments I have seen here. > My experience is that Plan 9 file systems are less reliable than linux > file systems, and both of these are less reliable then freebsd, and none > of them compare to AIX JFS from 1991. In 1991, to reboot an RS/6000 AIX > machine running JFS, you just hit reset. You never lost a file. We use fossil here. On your terminals you can just reboot. I have never lost a file and find if the most reliable system I ever saw (snapshots make it even user-proof). I cross my fingers anyway... Gorka --upas-qgpxuxhaidftayxugaqchsrbiq-- --upas-lpqexevptsxxagoiuhxgtpuhco-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 02:22:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 02:22:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27269 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 02:22:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27265 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 02:22:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 02:22:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C5B519A60; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF6D919A8B; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 62450199F6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BE59219A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10442 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 528 invoked by uid 991); 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20031021172051.527.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to a@9srv.net message dated "Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:20:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | the current implementation is at issue? and (the big question) | is it expected that the new stuff will be protocol compatable? That is the big question. Independent but compatable implementations is a sign of success. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 02:40:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 02:40:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27873 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 02:40:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27869 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 02:40:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 02:40:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A43C199CF; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC89A19A6F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65F2019A84; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (rrcs-nys-24-97-137-50.biz.rr.com [24.97.137.50]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E533A199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ABymF-0000VR-7q for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:50:31 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:24 EDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1947.1066751431.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:50:31 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > that's very interesting. my comment about "why rewrite" wasn't > intended to necessarily imply it should've been done that way, > although i realize it probably came off that way. what about > the current implementation is at issue? and (the big question) > is it expected that the new stuff will be protocol compatable? The protocol is almost completely trivial. There are only two interesting messages -- read and write. So ultimately it really doesn't matter. We have had problems with Venti since the Seans left, but I am not convinced that we really need to start over (perhaps I am the only one!). We have had some problems with the big Venti server, but my understanding is that all of the problems appeared to be disk corruption rather than software error. I think the biggest problem is that before the Seans left they didn't get the system scanning itself for damage regularly. Disks are going to fail and we need to replace them, but we haven't been. This does contrast with the WORM, where the platters fail much less frequently. Then again, the amount of code involved is so small that I do think that bulk alone doesn't justify sticking with the current code if you want to start over. If I started over, I suspect I would end up writing substantially the same code, so I don't see the point. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 03:22:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 03:22:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29163 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 03:22:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29159 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 03:22:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 03:22:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0D55199CC; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35BDD19A7A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D511919A23; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3B6F19A71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7ee4c6d81c1c3117ac6d512d0cd6b3fe@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:24:11 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Then again, the amount of code involved is so small that > I do think that bulk alone doesn't justify sticking with > the current code if you want to start over. mind you, it looks like it could be somewhat smaller still. there are various bits that look quite complex but in fact are hardly used (e.g. /sys/src/libventi/packet.c) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 06:28:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 06:28:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4220 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 06:28:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4216 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 06:28:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 06:28:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38C6B19A6F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F6D819A8F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73696199BB; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 229CD19A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <20031021172051.527.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yxujfloeeudihvpiuuowymdmtw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:30:48 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yxujfloeeudihvpiuuowymdmtw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's obviously why microsoft is a complete failure! --upas-yxujfloeeudihvpiuuowymdmtw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1AC0Dn-00075x-6e; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:23:03 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1AC0Dn-00075x-6e; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:23:03 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A147119A81; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4047819A84; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:22:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 62450199F6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BE59219A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10442 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Received: from roke.cse.psu.edu (HELO bio.cse.psu.edu) (130.203.12.14) by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 528 invoked by uid 991); 21 Oct 2003 17:20:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20031021172051.527.qmail@f.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to a@9srv.net message dated "Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:20:50 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | the current implementation is at issue? and (the big question) | is it expected that the new stuff will be protocol compatable? That is the big question. Independent but compatable implementations is a sign of success. --upas-yxujfloeeudihvpiuuowymdmtw-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 07:14:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 07:14:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5618 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 07:14:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5614 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 07:14:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 07:14:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57D7919A72; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33B8319A97; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 699F919A81; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C41CB19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19185 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h9LMDZl24338 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310212213.h9LMDZl24338@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:30:48 BST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:13:34 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > that's obviously why microsoft is a complete failure! But what Scott mentioned is only *one* sign of success! - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 10:22:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 10:22:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13893 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 10:22:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13888 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 10:22:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 10:22:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F88719A71; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C39919A8F; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B77B19A71; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AFC919A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: libdraw, loadimage, allocimage From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:22:18 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Compare for example 'eruption', which does 'loadimage' for the entire > display, rd-bomb, which does loadimage of a 256x256 bitmap, and > polyominoes, which uses pre-allocated color palette stored on the > display machine and see which one is faster... or try http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/plumb.tgz This is a games/plumb.☺ Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 12:58:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 12:58:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 22696 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 12:38:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 22690 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 12:38:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 12:38:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8C1119A1C; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C295619A8B; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:38:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 965DC19A81; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA9.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha9.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABE5B19A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.85]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L24N68NNUM8WYGZC@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:01:58 +1000 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042AD158005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:01:58 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (nbk-9978.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.170]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12FE120003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:01:57 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) In-reply-to: <7726650d11686c34f6885f4fbd2dc3fc@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <3F95E511.7090109@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031008 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <7726650d11686c34f6885f4fbd2dc3fc@hamnavoe.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:01:53 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Richard Miller wrote: >>other problems, like my apartment catching fire. > Seems to me there are other possible external causes of multiple disk > failure which are more likely than that one - e.g. spike on the power > line (or don't you get those in the USA?) or air conditioning failure > during a heatwave. Nah, fully privatised power companies, world's best practice, nothing could possibly go wrong... go wrong... go wrong... One other consideration is theft of the fileserver, especially if it is just a PC in the apartment. Just imagine those two perfectly good, reliable, mirrored drives --- stolen along with the stereo and your CDs when the junkies come visiting. > -- Richard --------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Tritschler mailto:ajft@ajft.org Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E, Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44 --------------------------------------------------------------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 13:45:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 13:45:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26466 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 13:44:57 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26023 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 13:33:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 13:33:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FDE219A63; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 806BB19A8B; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EED0019A33; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC5BA19981 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f83e848bf69899c7add200a8f514c51@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:33:08 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Russ-- > I think the biggest problem is that > before the Seans left they didn't get the system scanning > itself for damage regularly. Disks are going to fail and > we need to replace them, but we haven't been. This does > contrast with the WORM, where the platters fail much less > frequently. Hmmm, somthing bad is happening in Bell-Labs... Ok, from now, I'll read messages more carefully. Don't forget, many of Plan 9 users are gratefull of your efforts on Plan 9. And also, I hope all the developping team of Plan 9 re-united as before. I understand many difficulties around Lucent, which may indicate that it's not the time to develope OS in a company alone anymore... I'm not sure, of course. --Kenji From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 14:20:04 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 14:20:04 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28879 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 14:20:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28415 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 14:15:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 14:15:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 176D919A87; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80AF519A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:15:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CA6B19A87; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD82719A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <779ac966f2b3555101656c52c7f51ca0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp In-Reply-To: <4f83e848bf69899c7add200a8f514c51@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:15:07 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Awawawa----! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 18:51:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 18:51:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14337 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 18:51:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14333 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 18:51:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 18:51:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EA3819ACF; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0FA519A9C; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:51:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C3F419A92; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.MCLNVA23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8878619A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <75d870f60e8debae93978b899b507e4c@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <779ac966f2b3555101656c52c7f51ca0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:48:00 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) // Awawawa----! okay, my Japanese is a bit rusty (read: i only know about half a dozen words) but i'm pretty sure that translates to "Oh, so sorry. That was intended to go only to Russ, not the entire list. I'm quite embarrassed." marvelously efficient language. ã‚¢ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 19:21:35 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 19:21:35 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15403 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 19:21:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15399 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 19:21:34 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 19:21:34 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 239CE19AD9; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A09D19ACA; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:21:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 926E619AC0; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.189]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C9AB19A65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ACG5s-0006mO-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:19:56 +0200 Received: from [203.145.153.57] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ACG5r-0004ny-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:19:56 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization Message-Id: <20031022152211.0594a65d.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <6587E314-03E0-11D8-90F1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> References: <20031021154451.7dcb10c8.martin@parvat.com> <6587E314-03E0-11D8-90F1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:22:11 +0530 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:05:31 -0700 Rob Pike wrote: > > you should make it protocol-compatible. can't be hard. > ask for the details. and On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:20:47 -0400 a@9srv.net wrote: > the fact that it's not protocol-compatable does lower (but not > totally eliminate) its value to me. if your version doesn't run > on Plan 9 and host fossil, that does, as well. on the other hand, I'll have a look at what it would take to make the protocol compatible. Actually, one of the things I've chosen to do differently makes the protocol incompatible (it changes the 'score', in a way that I'd prefer not to discuss until I'm sure it is desirable!) However, it might be possible to support the Venti protocol simultaneously. Rog's Inferno code looks like a good starting point for information (thanks Rog!), although perhaps I could download the 'real thing' now, without it influencing my ideas too much about how to approach various design decisions. (I came across a 'Linux/BSD/etc CD' vendor here in Bangalore last week, who listed Plan 9 as being available - is there a Plan 9 UG in Bangalore?!) > those first two points make me skeptical, but i'll be checking it > out today. fix those two (so why didn't you use the venti code?) I also wanted to be very certain that no Venti code found its way into my implementation, lest I violate any copyrights. Patents, are of course another issue. I have searched without finding anything that seems relevant, but that is the problem with patents! > even the ideas are worth a lot, and if you can put file systems > on top of it (like fossil does, rather than just using it as an > archival vault) that my unix systems can use, that's a big win. I haven't any plans at the moment for a read-write filesystem, like fossil, but I certainly aim to provide something like /backup. > and provide a few tools my VP of Marketing can use, and get an > OS X port, and i'll buy a few coppies. We certainly intend that the system will be 'user-friendly', but in the Unix sense, not the lots-of-icons Windows sense. Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 20:26:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 20:26:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17928 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 20:26:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17924 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 20:26:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 20:26:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5B1E19A70; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BA6619A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:26:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 304DC19A70; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2757C19A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0eed4b105eaabd98d1783370d595e242@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports to unix (including libdraw) From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <1b018dfb0698e455458b9cdfa9614bea@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:20:15 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>There's no disagreement b/w you two. Our terminals are diskless, so >>a Twrite was already made and probably you also got your Rwrite >>(because you saw the buffer status changed in acme); a reset suffices. in which case the original post didn't really say much about fossil's reliability, which seemed to be the intent! your comment does, however, point out one possible advantage not yet mentioned of the lessened dependence on local discs everywhere by sharing a venti (fossil) server. the most reliable disc is one that isn't there! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 20:50:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 20:50:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18716 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 20:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18712 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 20:50:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 20:50:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54A6A19ABB; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D33B619A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF66019A9D; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7260719A7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9MBnIVB005137 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:49:18 +0200 (SAST) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h9MBnICf005136 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:49:18 +0200 (SAST) From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20031022134916.B4819@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us Organization: Proxima Research & Development Subject: [9fans] Nit picking Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:49:17 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The following files need a "chmod g+w" to allow members of "sys" to update them (at least, they did on my system, which hasn't been updated for a long time): /sys/src/9/ip/icmp6.c /sys/src/9/ip/ipv6.h /sys/src/9/pc/etherga620fw.h /sys/src/NOTICE /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/comments /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/conditionals /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/default_names /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/double_colon /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/echoing /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/errors /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/escape /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/include /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/mult_rules /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/mult_targets /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/override /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/parallelism /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/patspecific_vars /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/quoting /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/recursion /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/reinvoke /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/statipattrules /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/targetvars /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/varnesting /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/vpath /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/vpath2 /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/vpathgpath /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/features/vpathplus /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/addprefix /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/addsuffix /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/basename /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/call /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/dir /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/error /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/filter-out /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/findstring /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/foreach /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/if /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/join /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/notdir /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/origin /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/sort /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/strip /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/substitution /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/suffix /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/warning /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/wildcard /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/functions/word /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/misc/general1 /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/misc/general2 /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/misc/general3 /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/misc/version /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-C /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-I /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-e /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-f /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-k /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-l /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/options/dash-n /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/DEFAULT /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/FORCE /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/INTERMEDIATE /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/PHONY /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/SECONDARY /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/SILENT /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/targets/clean /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/test_template /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/CURDIR /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/MAKE /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/MAKECMDGOALS /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/MAKEFILES /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/MAKELEVEL /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/tests/scripts/variables/flavors /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/compat/dirent.c /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/include/dirent.h /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/include/pathstuff.h /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/include/sub_proc.h /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/include/w32err.h /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/NMakefile /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/build.bat /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/misc.c /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/proc.h /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/sub_proc.c /sys/src/ape/cmd/make-3.79/w32/subproc/w32err.c /sys/src/ape/lib/9/alpha/getfcr.s /sys/src/boot/alphapc/dat.h /sys/src/boot/alphapc/fns.h /sys/src/boot/alphapc/l.s /sys/src/boot/alphapc/main.c /sys/src/boot/alphapc/mem.h /sys/src/boot/alphapc/u.h /sys/src/cmd/7c/7.out.h /sys/src/cmd/7c/cgen.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/enam.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/gc.h /sys/src/cmd/7c/list.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/mkenam /sys/src/cmd/7c/mkfile /sys/src/cmd/7c/mul.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/peep.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/reg.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/sgen.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/swt.c /sys/src/cmd/7c/txt.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/ecmd.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/edit.c /sys/src/cmd/acme/edit.h /sys/src/cmd/acme/elog.c /sys/src/cmd/auth/secstore/secacct.c /sys/src/cmd/awk/lex.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/default.386.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/default.alpha.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/default.mips.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/default.power.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/CHANGES /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/README /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/TODO /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/ansi2knr.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/build.bat /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/descrip.mms /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/example.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/libpng.txt /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.aco /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.ama /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.atr /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.bor /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.dec /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.dj2 /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.knr /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.lnx /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.min /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.mip /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.msc /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.sgi /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.std /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.sun /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makefile.tc3 /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/makevms.com /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/png.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/png.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngconf.h /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngerror.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngget.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngmem.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngpread.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngread.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngrio.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngrtran.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngrutil.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngset.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngtest.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngtest.png /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngtrans.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngwio.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngwrite.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngwtran.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/libpng/pngwutil.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/ChangeLog /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.b32 /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.dj2 /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.in /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.riscos /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.sas /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/Makefile.wat /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/README /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/algorithm.doc /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/configure /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/zlib.def /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/zlib.rc /sys/src/cmd/map/route.c /sys/src/cmd/rtstats/mkfile /sys/src/cmd/scat/plot.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/bmap.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/font.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/hdr.h /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/kbits.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/kmap.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/main.c /sys/src/cmd/tcs/font/mkfile /sys/src/cmd/troff/FIXES /sys/src/cmd/troff/README /sys/src/cmd/troff/dwbinit.c /sys/src/cmd/troff/dwbinit.h /sys/src/cmd/troff/find /sys/src/cmd/troff2html/chars.h /sys/src/cmd/troff2html/mkfile /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/9auth.h /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/9fs.h /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/9p.h /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/Makefile /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/crypt.c /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/mount_9fs.8 /sys/src/cmd/unix/9pfreebsd/mount_9fs/mount_9fs.c /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm/canlock.c /sys/src/libc/386/387/sin.s /sys/src/libc/68000/sqrt.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/acos.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/asin.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/atan.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/cos.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/cosh.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/exp.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/fabs.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/log.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/log10.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/pow10.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/sin.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/sinh.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/sqrt.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/tan.s /sys/src/libc/68020/68881/tanh.s /sys/src/libc/68020/sqrt.s /sys/src/libcontrol/tabs.c /sys/src/libmach/7db.c /sys/src/libmach/7obj.c /sys/src/libplumb/mesg.c /sys/src/libsec/port/sha1block.c Then, it seems that the old (4th Ed) FS (I haven't tried Fossil) would allow a user with group write access to a file to change its permission bits. This is unlike Unix, where only the owner of the file has such permission. Is this intentional? On first try, I had trouble rebuilding ip/httpd as mk reported: mk: no recipe to make 'post_find.8' in directory /sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd about P.8. This message above is the product of a second attempt, in a somewhat (grossly?) more out of date environment. Needless to say, I now have a dated ip/httpd, suggestions to fix this are welcome. I also noted that many recipes check for the xxx.install indicator before relinking the binary, but many others have this reversed. Would it be very hard to change? If not, I'm happy to go ahead and do it. The former is considerably more useful. I see auth/ is a good candidate to experiment with. While still completing a system rebuild, "rtstats" gave me trouble. It found a realtime.h (an old one, seemingly) in /sys/src/9/port which is specified in the -I argument to 8c. As realtime.h has migrated to /sys/include, is the -I/sys/src/9/port parameter still required? And should the #include for realtime.h not be specified with <> rather than ""? OK, I've now successfully rebuilt the libs and cmds in /sys/src, with the provisos above. I hope this is of some help to somebody on this list. I have a somewhat long list of diagnostics generated by an attempt to build a new man index, is anyone interested in that? ++L From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 21:36:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 21:36:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20528 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 21:36:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20523 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 21:36:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 21:36:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AB0B19AA7; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5959019ABC; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D386199D6; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0E5E19AA2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b2aa0a1fe99971d48dbdf0ffb59dabf@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] webls.c - synthesize directories on the fly. From: Eric Grosse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:35:26 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > A few years ago I wrote a filterfs to exclude files matching a > regular expression. We use it on our web site when publishing > part of the dump file system since, as people have noted in > the past, there can be times when you need to effectively > delete things from Venti. > It's not polished so we never put it on sources, but I'm > willing to do so if there is sufficient interest. By popular demand, filterfs is now on sources. Pick up the new /sys/src/cmd/exportfs and read the man page for the -p option. We're not entirely happy with the syntax nor with the lack of assistance in writing patterns, but it's been useful as is. File access permissions will be added later as an optional third field on the patternfile lines. Eric Dave From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 22:14:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 22:14:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21800 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 22:14:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21796 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 22:14:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 22:14:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 262E319AB6; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 786FC19AC1; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAF4619A07; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0B7D19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:41 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8CFD66E7-0491-11D8-A23F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] Reliability of fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:13:38 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, My comments about reliability of fossil. I have two fossil server. One is for home network, another is for Internet. CASE fossil for home network That works perfectly fine. No trouble since the first installation term% ls /n/dump/* d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 18 2003 /n/dump/2003/0118 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 19 2003 /n/dump/2003/0119 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 19 2003 /n/dump/2003/0119.1 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 20 2003 /n/dump/2003/0120 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Feb 4 2003 /n/dump/2003/0204 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Feb 6 2003 /n/dump/2003/0206 ... d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 19 22:25 /n/dump/2003/1019 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 20 07:46 /n/dump/2003/1020 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 20 22:18 /n/dump/2003/1020.1 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 21 22:35 /n/dump/2003/1021 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 22 09:03 /n/dump/2003/1022 term% CASE fossil for Internet My computers are placed at my office of my university. Three of my machines were dead at 8 August because of typhoon. Windows were open and the machines were drenched! File server and CPU server were alive. So I reconstructed file server to be auth+venti+fossil server. The system continued working without any trouble until 30 September. My system, ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (with alias plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp) has been in service for educational purpose. A massive amount of accesses comes from students, specially at every Tuesday. The day, 30 September, was the first Tuesday of this semester. From that day, my fossil falls into broken state at every Tuesday. I suspected hardwares because they were old and I replaced them with new one. However even after the replacement, fossil continues getting into trouble at every Tuesday. Now I have added new machine that is based on kfs for the services to students. I appreciate the effort of Russ. Fossil is really fine. But it is desired to test under hard condition. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 22 23:58:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 22 23:58:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26237 invoked by uid 1020); 22 Oct 2003 23:58:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26233 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 23:58:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 23:58:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17CE919A80; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D783D19A89; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:58:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 521FC19AC2; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C772C19A15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <11aaa855361fd5ac7e637be3d37d3116@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:57:15 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > We have had some problems > with the big Venti server, but my understanding is that > all of the problems appeared to be disk corruption rather > than software error. The software could do a bit better in recovering from hardware errors. If a bad sector makes a venti block unreadable, rdarena and wrarena could use the redundant information in the arena trailer to skip the bad block and continue, but they just give up. Worse, if checkarenas (with -f) fails to read a block, instead of using the trailer information to skip the block, it tries to correct the mismatch between block label and trailer by copying garbage into the trailer entry from the buffer it just failed to read into. Oops. -- Richard From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 00:10:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 00:10:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26701 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 00:10:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26697 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 00:10:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 00:10:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 48BF119AF4; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC3FE19AF6; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1725719AF0; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F23F19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f2e986de625824a35852cc937ca00ba@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Reliability of fossil From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <8CFD66E7-0491-11D8-A23F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hfhuwuhxjogkyvyazopqcqpqjs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:09:10 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hfhuwuhxjogkyvyazopqcqpqjs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how did you reconstruct the file server? copying the arenas back? Did you start with a brand new fossil? Is this fossil the one breaking? --upas-hfhuwuhxjogkyvyazopqcqpqjs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Oct 22 15:14:41 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8029919A84; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 786FC19AC1; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAF4619A07; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0B7D19A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:41 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8CFD66E7-0491-11D8-A23F-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Subject: [9fans] Reliability of fossil Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:13:38 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, My comments about reliability of fossil. I have two fossil server. One is for home network, another is for Internet. CASE fossil for home network That works perfectly fine. No trouble since the first installation term% ls /n/dump/* d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 18 2003 /n/dump/2003/0118 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 19 2003 /n/dump/2003/0119 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 19 2003 /n/dump/2003/0119.1 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Jan 20 2003 /n/dump/2003/0120 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Feb 4 2003 /n/dump/2003/0204 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Feb 6 2003 /n/dump/2003/0206 ... d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 19 22:25 /n/dump/2003/1019 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 20 07:46 /n/dump/2003/1020 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 20 22:18 /n/dump/2003/1020.1 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 21 22:35 /n/dump/2003/1021 d-r-xr-xr-x M 29 adm adm 0 Oct 22 09:03 /n/dump/2003/1022 term% CASE fossil for Internet My computers are placed at my office of my university. Three of my machines were dead at 8 August because of typhoon. Windows were open and the machines were drenched! File server and CPU server were alive. So I reconstructed file server to be auth+venti+fossil server. The system continued working without any trouble until 30 September. My system, ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (with alias plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp) has been in service for educational purpose. A massive amount of accesses comes from students, specially at every Tuesday. The day, 30 September, was the first Tuesday of this semester. From that day, my fossil falls into broken state at every Tuesday. I suspected hardwares because they were old and I replaced them with new one. However even after the replacement, fossil continues getting into trouble at every Tuesday. Now I have added new machine that is based on kfs for the services to students. I appreciate the effort of Russ. Fossil is really fine. But it is desired to test under hard condition. Kenji Arisawa --upas-hfhuwuhxjogkyvyazopqcqpqjs-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 00:37:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 00:37:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28031 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 00:37:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28026 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 00:37:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 00:37:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2654519AEE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9B7619AE8; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B2E919AC2; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCF4E19AB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MFZmaJ025297 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:35:48 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MFZmBo013137 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:35:48 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MFZlCA026753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:35:47 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] "could not write super block: waiting 10 seconds" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:35:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This looks like an unhappy situation. I am not sure my latest venti install quite worked right. Any hints as to what I should be looking for? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 00:44:37 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 00:44:37 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28404 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 00:44:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28399 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 00:44:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 00:44:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E10219AFD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26E1519ADB; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:44:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8228E19AF9; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C45419AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 210C866B50; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:43:23 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I've spent the night working to recover/rebuild my venti+fossil fileserver. The recover part was due to something hosing the superblock in fossil. No idea what it was. The rebuild part was to add another disc for use as the venti index so I can use the much larger disc the index was on for more arenas. I also wanted to setup the configs on the discs using [venti,fossil]/conf. I thought this would be easy enough. For recovery, just reformat fossil with a venti score. Then I could go about rebuilding the index on the new disc and creating more arenas. This has led to nothing but trouble. After much pulling of hair and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how to handle discs over 128G because it doesn't know anything about 48-bit lba. As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. Patches to 9load should be done later today or early tomorrow. Ron, weren't you working on eliminating 9load from the picture? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 00:59:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 00:59:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28988 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 00:59:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28984 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 00:59:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 00:59:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3E7219B05; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C73919B1F; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:59:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 646D4199E8; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4561E19AD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba In-Reply-To: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:57:55 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how ... >>As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti >>tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. how does 9load cause that to happen? the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel can't use 48-bits either? i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, or perhaps with the right geometry. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 01:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 01:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29334 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 01:10:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29329 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 01:10:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 01:10:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22B8319AFE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1386E19ACE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEA0E19AE3; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95E9719A75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MG8paJ003486 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:08:51 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MG8o9C007944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:08:50 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9MG8oCA028115 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:08:50 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba In-Reply-To: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:08:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > Ron, weren't you working on eliminating 9load from the picture? yep, I'm still trying to recover my auth server from the switch to fossil+venti. I may reload from scratch, things did not go well. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 01:27:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 01:27:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30226 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 01:27:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30222 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 01:27:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 01:27:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03DBD19A23; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 341AF19B0E; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:27:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C776E199EE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 12FB619A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 2A6DC393A; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id C603C3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from seacaptain.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.54]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1949.199.98.17.54.1066839523.squirrel@wish> From: "Joel Salomon" To: "9fans" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: [9fans] Plan9 ports on cygwin Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I got another chance to experiment, so: * as far as the #ifdefs are concerned, I copied whatever was under #if defined(__FreeBSD__) to #if defined(__CYGWIN__) * gnu ld seems not to find the various libs needed to link executables (libposix, etc.). Replace calls to ld with calls to gcc - *it* knows where to find everything. * at this point there are complaints (when linking tprimes) about undefined reference to `__setlabel' and also to `__getlabel'. Apparently the extra underscore isn't added by gas, so I added them (in lib*/*.s - they're needed everywhere). * when compiling lib9: cc await.c await.c: In function `await': await.c:99: warning: implicit declaration of function `WCOREDUMP' and linking of the test programs in src/libthread all fail with this missing function. Does anyone have a work-around for this? BTW, is anything happening on the libdraw/windows front? --Joel From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 01:55:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 01:55:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31542 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 01:55:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31538 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 01:55:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 01:55:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F334919A94; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDEBC19ADD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:55:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DB6319A68; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFE30199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti ports and productization In-Reply-To: <11aaa855361fd5ac7e637be3d37d3116@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:54:36 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 22 10:58:46 EDT 2003, miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk wrote: > > We have had some problems > > with the big Venti server, but my understanding is that > > all of the problems appeared to be disk corruption rather > > than software error. > > The software could do a bit better in recovering from hardware errors. > If a bad sector makes a venti block unreadable, rdarena and wrarena > could use the redundant information in the arena trailer to skip the > bad block and continue, but they just give up. Worse, if checkarenas > (with -f) fails to read a block, instead of using the trailer information > to skip the block, it tries to correct the mismatch between block label > and trailer by copying garbage into the trailer entry from the buffer > it just failed to read into. Oops. > > -- Richard That's pretty much right, in my limited experience. When I started looking at the errors we have I hacked up the arena read programme I have to do some resynchronisation, it needs more work, though. Looking at the errors we have, I don't think I'd ever want to write back into the arena to try to fix it, that stuff with VtTypeCorrupt just seems wrong (as does the definition of VtTypeCorrupt as VtMaxType). From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 02:11:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 02:11:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32197 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 02:11:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32193 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 02:11:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 02:11:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99F0419A2A; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDBA2199FD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:11:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7EE3199D8; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E340C199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C5ECC66B45; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:10:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031022171017.GZ834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:10:17 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:57:55PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > how does 9load cause that to happen? > the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which > should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing > about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel > can't use 48-bits either? no idea. my conclusion was a semi-educated guess. > i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't > be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, > or perhaps with the right geometry. something weird is going on. i originally had the venti conf on one of the 167G drives, it would get to 'time...' in the boot sequence, and then suicide with an invalid address. so i moved the venti conf to one of the smaller discs, and then it found the venti conf and barfed because it couldn't open the arenas on the 167G discs. based on that, i am assuming something is hating those large discs. do you have any other ideas? -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 02:31:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 02:31:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32758 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 02:31:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32754 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 02:31:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 02:31:12 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B174519AA7; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E17E6199FD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3F4F19A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3919B199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3E4C266B45; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:53 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:57:55PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how > ... > >>As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti > >>tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. > > how does 9load cause that to happen? > the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which > should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing > about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel > can't use 48-bits either? > > i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't > be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, > or perhaps with the right geometry. one more bit of information. when 9load detects the discs, it says it can't add the partitions on the 167G drives because the boundaries are out of range. the upper end of the boundary that it prints is the upper end of 28-bit addressing. that's why i concluded it had to do with 48-bit lba. this is transcribed by hand, but it looks something like this: cannot add sdF0!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range cannot add sdF1!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 02:48:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 02:48:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 811 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 02:48:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 807 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 02:48:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 02:48:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF77919AB5; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FE5219A87; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:48:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1B8D19A65; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9F0D19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] create() and mtime Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:46:59 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It looks like a create of an existing file is not updating mtime. As a result news prints old news because the mtime of $home/lib/newstime gets fixed to the actual creation (not truncation) time. I changed create(newstime) to remove(newstime) create(newstime) in our news program, but that's probably wrong. BTW, the file server where newstime lives on in fossil backed up by venti. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 03:00:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 03:00:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1191 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 03:00:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1187 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 03:00:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 03:00:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB1B419A87; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81E6919A02; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:00:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89AF319A23; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 874C519A82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-aeyevpjlqmzfsyvilhlzkrysyf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:58:56 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-aeyevpjlqmzfsyvilhlzkrysyf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i see. i'd wondered after i'd posted whether this might be it: the kernel driver doesn't work out partitions on its own any more. the devices' partition tables are set, for instance in /bin/termrc, by disk/fdisk -p and disk/prep -p, into /dev/sd??/ctl, but that's not much help if you need the file systems to get termrc (let alone fdisk or prep), and you need the partitions to find the file system. thus, boot adds the results of its own probe to the internal copy of plan9.ini passed to the kernel, and so the partitions are defined in time for boot to find them. /sys/src/9/port/devsd.c has * Use partitions passed from boot program, * sdC0part=dos 63 123123/plan9 123123 456456 * This happens before /boot sets hostname so the * partitions will have the null-string for user. ... you could configure fdisk and prep into /boot, and have boot use them, but perhaps the easiest change for you might be to stop 9load from checking the values (temporarily) until something better is done. --upas-aeyevpjlqmzfsyvilhlzkrysyf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1ACMpD-0002iy-F8; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:31:12 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ACMpD-0002iy-F8 for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:31:11 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B174519AA7; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E17E6199FD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3F4F19A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3919B199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3E4C266B45; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022154323.GY834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2fe61d2b01e01d7db540f3315d679848@caldo.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:53 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:57:55PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how > ... > >>As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti > >>tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. > > how does 9load cause that to happen? > the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which > should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing > about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel > can't use 48-bits either? > > i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't > be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, > or perhaps with the right geometry. one more bit of information. when 9load detects the discs, it says it can't add the partitions on the 167G drives because the boundaries are out of range. the upper end of the boundary that it prints is the upper end of 28-bit addressing. that's why i concluded it had to do with 48-bit lba. this is transcribed by hand, but it looks something like this: cannot add sdF0!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range cannot add sdF1!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin --upas-aeyevpjlqmzfsyvilhlzkrysyf-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 03:07:39 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 03:07:39 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1380 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 03:07:37 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1376 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 03:07:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 03:07:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A560199CF; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A2B819A32; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0963B199CF; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D6B719A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ACNNC-0001Nx-5z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:06:18 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:58:56 BST." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5327.1066845975.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:06:15 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > you could configure fdisk and prep into /boot, and have boot use them, but perhaps the > easiest change for you might be to stop 9load from checking the values (temporarily) > until something better is done. yes, this. change 9load so that if the max disk address is 2^28, it doesn't sanity check the upper bounds in the partition table. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 03:08:38 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 03:08:38 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1406 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 03:08:38 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1402 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 03:08:37 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 03:08:37 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A20DD19A97; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7E6019A9E; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:08:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52357199CF; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E26919A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MI6Z7x003291 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:06:35 -0700 Message-ID: <9f2ff8a7c20beeea97858128bc424469@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] create() and mtime From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:06:35 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > It looks like a create of an existing file is not updating mtime. As a result > news prints old news because the mtime of $home/lib/newstime gets fixed to > the actual creation (not truncation) time. i just noticed this myself. you need to write to a file to get its mtime updated. i believe this is a mistake; the manual says mtime is time of change of content, not time of write. i would change your news program to create and write a byte. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 03:40:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 03:40:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2292 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 03:40:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2288 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 03:40:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 03:40:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31BB919A93; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B522D199D2; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:40:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93A7819992; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5046519A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9MK76o02967 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:07:06 -0400 Received: from 135.214.150.100 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58235.135.214.150.100.1066853226.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:07:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) hi, >> you could configure fdisk and prep into /boot, and have boot use them, >> but perhaps the easiest change for you might be to stop 9load from >> checking the values (temporarily) until something better is done. > > yes, this. change 9load so that if the max disk address is 2^28, > it doesn't sanity check the upper bounds in the partition table. is someone changing 9load source centrally also? that way it would be useful for other similar instances as well. and, may be, if reqd, the sanity check could be changed from display-error- and-exit to warn-and-proceed. thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 03:57:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 03:57:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3214 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 03:57:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3210 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 03:57:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 03:57:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AAFA19AA6; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 894BC19A7C; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:57:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A47D419A6F; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB11F19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2457b115760b955da8e1e96de8434eea@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] create() and mtime In-Reply-To: <9f2ff8a7c20beeea97858128bc424469@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 22 14:08:39 EDT 2003, r@geekmail.cc wrote: > > It looks like a create of an existing file is not updating mtime. As a result > > news prints old news because the mtime of $home/lib/newstime gets fixed to > > the actual creation (not truncation) time. > > i just noticed this myself. you need to write to a file to get its mtime updated. > i believe this is a mistake; the manual says mtime is time of change of content, > not time of write. > > i would change your news program to create and write a byte. > > -rob i would fix the bug. new version of /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c on sources. --jim From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 05:01:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 05:01:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5178 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 05:01:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5174 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 05:01:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 05:01:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C829199FE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E48A119A69; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:00:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0C3C199D6; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A83BF199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2D70266B2C; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031022195940.GD834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:59:40 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I modified 9load as Russ suggested. I cannot test it just yet, but I will do so when I get home. It was a very simple, one-line change that, should it work, will suffice until a better solution is available. On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 06:58:56PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i see. i'd wondered after i'd posted whether this might be it: > > the kernel driver doesn't work out partitions on its own any more. > the devices' partition tables are set, for instance in /bin/termrc, by > disk/fdisk -p and disk/prep -p, into /dev/sd??/ctl, but that's not much help if you need the > file systems to get termrc (let alone fdisk or prep), and you need the partitions > to find the file system. thus, boot adds the results of its own probe to the > internal copy of plan9.ini passed to the kernel, and so the partitions are > defined in time for boot to find them. > > /sys/src/9/port/devsd.c has > * Use partitions passed from boot program, > * sdC0part=dos 63 123123/plan9 123123 456456 > * This happens before /boot sets hostname so the > * partitions will have the null-string for user. > ... > > you could configure fdisk and prep into /boot, and have boot use them, but perhaps the > easiest change for you might be to stop 9load from checking the values (temporarily) > until something better is done. > From: Christopher Nielsen > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:57:55PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > >>and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how > > ... > > >>As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti > > >>tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. > > > > how does 9load cause that to happen? > > the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which > > should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing > > about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel > > can't use 48-bits either? > > > > i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't > > be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, > > or perhaps with the right geometry. > > one more bit of information. when 9load detects the discs, > it says it can't add the partitions on the 167G drives > because the boundaries are out of range. the upper end of > the boundary that it prints is the upper end of 28-bit > addressing. that's why i concluded it had to do with 48-bit > lba. > > this is transcribed by hand, but it looks something like > this: > > cannot add sdF0!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range > cannot add sdF1!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 11:18:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 11:18:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20601 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 11:18:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20583 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 11:17:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 11:17:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 647C119A66; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5CB419A32; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:17:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41E07199DE; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25534199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 755E266B2C; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:16:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031023021628.GH834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20031022195940.GD834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031022195940.GD834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:16:28 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) That didn't work. It shut up 9load about the partitions, but venti still couldn't open the partition. Unless someone has a better idea, I'm going to proceed with incorporating fdisk and prep into /boot and teach boot to use them to sniff out the partitions. On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:59:40PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > I modified 9load as Russ suggested. I cannot test it just yet, > but I will do so when I get home. > > It was a very simple, one-line change that, should it work, will > suffice until a better solution is available. > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 06:58:56PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > i see. i'd wondered after i'd posted whether this might be it: > > > > the kernel driver doesn't work out partitions on its own any more. > > the devices' partition tables are set, for instance in /bin/termrc, by > > disk/fdisk -p and disk/prep -p, into /dev/sd??/ctl, but that's not much help if you need the > > file systems to get termrc (let alone fdisk or prep), and you need the partitions > > to find the file system. thus, boot adds the results of its own probe to the > > internal copy of plan9.ini passed to the kernel, and so the partitions are > > defined in time for boot to find them. > > > > /sys/src/9/port/devsd.c has > > * Use partitions passed from boot program, > > * sdC0part=dos 63 123123/plan9 123123 456456 > > * This happens before /boot sets hostname so the > > * partitions will have the null-string for user. > > ... > > > > you could configure fdisk and prep into /boot, and have boot use them, but perhaps the > > easiest change for you might be to stop 9load from checking the values (temporarily) > > until something better is done. > > > From: Christopher Nielsen > > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:53 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:57:55PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > > >>and head-scratching, it turns out that 9load doesn't know how > > > ... > > > >>As a result, when boot tries to start venti and venti > > > >>tries to find the arenas, it all goes to hell. > > > > > > how does 9load cause that to happen? > > > the thing that starts venti is a normal kernel, which > > > should handle 48-bit LBA. does 9load (not knowing > > > about them) leave the ATA in a state where the kernel > > > can't use 48-bits either? > > > > > > i can see that 9load not knowing 48-bit addressing wouldn't > > > be able to see boot/9fat partitions beyond a certain point, > > > or perhaps with the right geometry. > > > > one more bit of information. when 9load detects the discs, > > it says it can't add the partitions on the 167G drives > > because the boundaries are out of range. the upper end of > > the boundary that it prints is the upper end of 28-bit > > addressing. that's why i concluded it had to do with 48-bit > > lba. > > > > this is transcribed by hand, but it looks something like > > this: > > > > cannot add sdF0!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range > > cannot add sdF1!plan9 [63,351646785) to disk [0,268435455): partition boundaries out of range > > > > -- > > Christopher Nielsen > > "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary > > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin > > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 17:02:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 17:02:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12532 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 17:02:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12528 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 17:02:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 17:02:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1F0619A19; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09D2B19A08; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:02:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8929919A70; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar.aichi-u.ac.jp (ar.aichi-u.ac.jp [202.250.160.40]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8594A199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:00:57 -0400 (EDT) X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Subject: Re: [9fans] Reliability of fossil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: arisawa@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <0f2e986de625824a35852cc937ca00ba@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-Id: <057CB970-052F-11D8-9415-000393A941BC@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:00:52 +0900 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hello, > how did you reconstruct the file server? copying the arenas back? > Did you start with a brand new fossil? > Is this fossil the one breaking? > I reconstructed venti and fossil from the scratch using the copy in kfs: - first time (at the time my system is damaged by typhoon) I constructed auth+venti+fossil server from old machine that had been my file server. HDs were old 8GB + 8GB. - second time ( at the first corruption of fossil ) I reconstructed auth+venti+fossil server using the copy in kfs, not from arenas. Although I suspected the origin of the trouble is in old machine: P3/Xeon/866 with 256MB memory - third time (at second corruption of fossil ) I replaced the old machine with new machine (Athron 2200+ with 512MB memory) but HDs were still old. I reconstructed the server using the copy in kfs, not from arenas. Although I suspected the origin of the trouble is in old HDs. - fourth time (at third trouble of fossil ) I replaced old HDs with new HD (80GB). arenas and fossil are constructed from the scratch. I expected fossil can run without trouble. - fifth time (at fourth trouble of fossil that were happened at mid night dump) I simply execute: checkarenas checkindex flchk - sixth time (at fifth trouble of fossil ) I simply execute: checkarenas checkindex flchk and posted the problems to 9fans The current archives are: d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 18 16:00 /n/temp/2003/1018 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 19 04:00 /n/temp/2003/1019 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 20 09:06 /n/temp/2003/1020 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 20 09:49 /n/temp/2003/1020.1 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 21 04:00 /n/temp/2003/1021 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 22 04:00 /n/temp/2003/1022 d-r-xr-xr-x M 31 adm adm 0 Oct 23 04:00 /n/temp/2003/1023 In constructing arenas and fossil I got new version of fossil and venti binary from sources.cs.bell-labs.com and used them as it is. They are: --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 1497 Sep 7 10:00 /386/bin/fossil/conf --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 232263 Sep 27 02:42 /386/bin/fossil/flchk --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 230228 Sep 27 02:42 /386/bin/fossil/flfmt --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 345764 Oct 14 11:22 /386/bin/fossil/fossil --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 160540 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/buildindex --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 164405 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/checkarenas --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 161346 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/checkindex --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 150452 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/clumpstats --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 1506 Jun 23 19:33 /386/bin/venti/conf --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 104558 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/copy --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 131327 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/findscore --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 132572 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/fmtarenas --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 150815 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/fmtindex --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 150699 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/fmtisect --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 131051 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/rdarena --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 100831 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/read --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 99981 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/sync --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 175875 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/syncindex --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 251676 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/venti --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 104568 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/verifyarena --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 181861 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/wrarena --rwxrwxr-x M 4568 sys sys 100783 Sep 27 02:46 /386/bin/venti/write Thanks nemo for your interest. Kenji Arisawa From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 23 19:39:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 23 19:39:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19043 invoked by uid 1020); 23 Oct 2003 19:39:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19039 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2003 19:39:56 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 19:39:56 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52B4319A19; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 482C219AAC; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:39:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23B3919A66; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3ABBB19ACF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] create() and mtime From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <2457b115760b955da8e1e96de8434eea@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zesvpfyvjwwiayypgrwgolejsp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:38:01 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zesvpfyvjwwiayypgrwgolejsp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was not sure of the correct behaviour, so I couldnt fix it. For me it was not clear if it was a feature or not. Thanks for the fix. --upas-zesvpfyvjwwiayypgrwgolejsp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Oct 22 20:57:45 MDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3384519A65; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 894BC19A7C; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:57:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A47D419A6F; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB11F19A23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2457b115760b955da8e1e96de8434eea@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] create() and mtime In-Reply-To: <9f2ff8a7c20beeea97858128bc424469@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:56:41 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed Oct 22 14:08:39 EDT 2003, r@geekmail.cc wrote: > > It looks like a create of an existing file is not updating mtime. As a result > > news prints old news because the mtime of $home/lib/newstime gets fixed to > > the actual creation (not truncation) time. > > i just noticed this myself. you need to write to a file to get its mtime updated. > i believe this is a mistake; the manual says mtime is time of change of content, > not time of write. > > i would change your news program to create and write a byte. > > -rob i would fix the bug. new version of /sys/src/cmd/fossil/file.c on sources. --jim --upas-zesvpfyvjwwiayypgrwgolejsp-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 08:59:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 08:59:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15717 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 08:59:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15713 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 08:59:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 08:59:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5356C199E3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D30E219A93; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98D9819A0C; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alchar.org (alchar.org [66.92.236.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 00DAD19A1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3853 invoked by uid 100); 23 Oct 2003 23:58:32 -0000 From: Kris Van Hees To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20031023195832.D9637@alchar.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Subject: [9fans] Pull? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:58:32 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is there potentially something down at the labs? I've bring trying to execute a pull for a while now tonight, and it is simply not authenticating me. I also created a new update account just to verify, and it won't accept it. Anyone else experiencing problems? Kris From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 09:59:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 09:59:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19061 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 09:59:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19054 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 09:59:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 09:59:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB6A719A73; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE5AA19ABB; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 837BB19A1E; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 216-239-45-4.google.com (216-239-45-4.google.com [216.239.45.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0ACF19ABB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stinkhorn.corp.google.com (stinkhorn.corp.google.com [10.3.18.75]) by 216-239-45-4.google.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9O0wB7x008501 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:58:11 -0700 Message-ID: <193453740f132a744e40c6cfcdd2486e@google.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Pull? From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <20031023195832.D9637@alchar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:58:11 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Is there potentially something down at the labs? I've bring trying to execute > a pull for a while now tonight, and it is simply not authenticating me. I also > created a new update account just to verify, and it won't accept it. > > Anyone else experiencing problems? i've seen this intermittently in the last few days. -rob From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 10:01:02 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 10:01:02 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19198 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 10:01:01 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19187 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 10:01:01 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 10:01:01 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A253B19A9E; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6936D19A70; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEE8019A9D; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B46819A70 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c2551b7038b004930168d222cf09a1b@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Pull? From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca In-Reply-To: <20031023195832.D9637@alchar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:59:01 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Anyone else experiencing problems? it worked for me just now, with a clean instance of factotum... my problem is that I don't see any of the changes I've submitted recently making it to sources (they're minor fixes to man pages mostly, so there's no reason they should be immediately discarded :) andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 10:47:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 10:47:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21798 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 10:47:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21794 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 10:47:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 10:47:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9C5B19AD9; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BCF819AE5; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:47:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DECA719ACE; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CB3A19AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 135.255.41.99 ([135.255.41.99]) by plan9; Thu Oct 23 21:45:59 EDT 2003 Message-ID: <008101c399cf$1097ce10$6329ff87@bl.belllabs.com> From: "david presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4c2551b7038b004930168d222cf09a1b@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] Pull? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:35:10 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm out of town. I'll stick all the changes on when I actually get 2 days in a row near a computer I understand. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Pull? > > Anyone else experiencing problems? > > it worked for me just now, with a clean instance of factotum... > > my problem is that I don't see any of the changes I've submitted > recently making it to sources (they're minor fixes to man pages > mostly, so there's no reason they should be immediately discarded :) > > andrey > > > From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 13:33:44 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 13:33:44 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31873 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 13:33:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31869 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 13:33:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 13:33:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4351819AF4; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F169519AD4; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D24419AE8; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB26019ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id h9O4W7EH012631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:32:08 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20031024143205.0c5626a3.ggm@apnic.net> In-Reply-To: <20031023021628.GH834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20031022195940.GD834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20031023021628.GH834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-netbsdelf1.6ZC) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-106.3 required=7 X-AP-Spam-Score: -106.3 (notspam) BAYES_10,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Subject: [9fans] trouble down t'labs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:32:05 +1000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,RCVD_IN_RFCI,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) AT&T have admitted to severe SPAM related slowdowns. It might be that the data congestion along the path is causing so much packetloss, crypted and other loss- intolerant paths are not working well. how much of 9 protocol is over IP or UDP rather than TCP? I suppose even if TCP, it could score massive delay as the windowsize kept down due to fragloss. Only a hypotenuse. Somebody more in-the-know can kybosh it. -George From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 14:08:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 14:08:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1695 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 14:08:34 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1383 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 14:05:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 14:05:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED13319B0D; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB1EA19B00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:05:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7153719AF5; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (neuromancer.cse.psu.edu [130.203.3.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82AC219B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lynx.url.com.tw (lynx.url.com.tw [210.59.228.198]) by neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id B42961B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13820 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 05:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pollux.url.com.tw) ([210.59.228.142]) (envelope-sender <>) by lynx.url.com.tw (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Oct 2003 05:04:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 30354 invoked by uid 505); 24 Oct 2003 05:04:18 -0000 From: "System Anti-Virus Administrator" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: X-Tnz-Problem-Type: 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Subject: [9fans] virus found in received message "Current Critical Pack" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 24 Oct 2003 05:04:18 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_REMOVE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Attention: 9fans@cse.psu.edu A virus was found in an Email message sent to you. This Email scanner intercepted it and stopped the entire message before it reached you. No further action is required on your part. The virus was reported to be: virus WORM_SWEN.A Please contact your I.T support personnel with any queries regarding this policy. The message sent to you had the following envelope: MAIL FROM: dvlp@beider.com.tw RCPT TO: normlehf@pacbell.net,grreasyfries@yahoo.com,snorwood@redballoon.net,cinerama@comcast.net,mhafner@mhafner.ch,kludge@panix.com,manitou910@rogers.com,peterh5322@aol.comminch,mrthreed@yahoo.com,jerz@earthlink.net,newshog4@aol.com,bhuelbig@prodigy.net,see.address@in.sig,loungeophonic@sbcglobal.net,myaddressishalej@dcs.gla.ac.uk,morris@sce-12.sce.carleton.ca,irh@mail2.sas.upenn.edu,cinemad@hotmail.com,jeffkreines@mindspring.com,plinfesty@bak.rr.com,moviebear1@aol.com,jsittig@pacifictheatres.com,wjh@mindless.com,timothywittneben@aol.com,hchickpearemoveme@hotmail.com,az896@freenet.carleton.ca,musicfan0920032000@yahoo.com,johnw248@aol.com,libretio@hotmail.com,richvince@aol.com,notreally@myemailaddress.com,see.message.text.for.email@bellatlantic.net,freeze@green.com,martinblockhart@widescreenblockmuseum.com,dce6644@earthlink.net,s.adler@home.se,alrob12345@yahoo.com,anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com,paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es,oleg@tiscali.no,martin@parvat.com,bytemedammit@n owhere.net,a.b@email.cz,philippe.anel@noos.fr,ajft@ajft.org,hilarypv@lycos.com,rsc@swtch.com,orc@pell.portland.or.us,rvs@sun.com,geoff@collyer.net,stalker@math.princeton.edu,splite@purdue.edu,schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu,enache@rdslink.ro,cross@math.psu.edu,jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com,mithrandi-9fans@mithrandi.za.net,fst@centurytel.net,rminnich@lanl.gov,pat_e@efn.org,dagwyn@null.net,a@9srv.net,nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es,nigel@9fs.org,mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca,okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp,matt@proweb.co.uk,9fans@cse.psu.edu,forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk,miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk,rattan@cps.cmich.edu,presotto@closedmind.org,forsyth@vitanuova.com,mahtiaz@hotmail.com,onlyinyourdreams@nightmare.com,yurigeller@hotmail.com,post@kimarthur.com,wildetuinn@hotmail.com,a@b.c ... and with the following headers: --- MAILFROM: dvlp@beider.com.tw Received: from unknown (HELO zovv) ([218.170.108.226]) (envelope-sender ) by msa.url.com.tw (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Oct 2003 05:03:50 -0000 FROM: "Microsoft Customer Bulletin" TO: "MS User" SUBJECT: Current Critical Pack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="nkcmzhkh" --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 24 14:10:59 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 24 14:10:59 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1979 invoked by uid 1020); 24 Oct 2003 14:10:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1896 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 14:10:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 24 Oct 2003 14:10:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0171019B1B; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA23919B24; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6F1719B00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lynx.url.com.tw (lynx.url.com.tw [210.59.228.198]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F0BB719B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16063 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2003 05:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pollux.url.com.tw) ([210.59.228.142]) (envelope-sender <>) by lynx.url.com.tw (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 24 Oct 2003 05:08:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 3507 invoked by uid 505); 24 Oct 2003 05:08:56 -0000 From: "System Anti-Virus Administrator" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: X-Tnz-Problem-Type: 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Subject: [9fans] virus found in received message "message" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 24 Oct 2003 05:08:56 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Attention: 9fans@cse.psu.edu A virus was found in an Email message sent to you. This Email scanner intercepted it and stopped the entire message before it reached you. No further action is required on your part. The virus was reported to be: virus WORM_SWEN.A Please contact your I.T support personnel with any queries regarding this policy. The message sent to you had the following envelope: MAIL FROM: dvlp@beider.com.tw RCPT TO: ausstu@primus.com.au,unbiased@cox.net,zekegregory@netscape.net,trammel@rogers.com,davidleon@iprimus.com.au,xodus4@hotmail.com,roberts@rogers.com,someone@somewhere.com,mosley@info.gov.mars,steve@unowut.org,dontknowwho@mail.com,fx.usa@wanadoo.fr,tarena@comcast.net,mvketel@purmerend.org,rex@selfnet.cz,dodeguy@webtv.net,wouldntyou@liketoknow.com,deathgoath@yahoo.com,vze32nz7@verizon.net,myfaveheadache@aol.comnojunk,liv_n_large@hotmail.com,hotkey@step.polymtl.ca.invalid,vanullis@aol.com,maninspace@pandora.be,victorthecleaner@netscape.net,crisden@dividedskymusic.com,jim@xmrwhoopeex.com,hotsoup@mofo.com,mark_@_nerdymark.com,ebrown2112@hotmail.com,drchristidwell@hotmail.com,nobody@localhost.localdomain,stefwolf@rogers.com,david-alexandre.gava@wanadoo.fr,jweissenburger@comcast.net,cutlipfamily@comcast.net,jamason56xx@msn.com,james@takeitouttamyass-dvd-critic.net,fsmith@umaryland.edu,xcitor@sdf.lonestar.org,sentinal@disconnectedproductions.com,noneedtoknow@yeahright.com,rego rnniw@aol.com,a@b.c,wildetuinn@hotmail.com,post@kimarthur.com,yurigeller@hotmail.com,onlyinyourdreams@nightmare.com,mahtiaz@hotmail.com,forsyth@vitanuova.com,presotto@closedmind.org,rattan@cps.cmich.edu,miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk,forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk,9fans@cse.psu.edu,matt@proweb.co.uk,okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp,mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca,nigel@9fs.org,nemo@plan9.escet.urjc.es,a@9srv.net ... and with the following headers: --- MAILFROM: dvlp@beider.com.tw Received: from unknown (HELO muqa) ([218.170.108.226]) (envelope-sender ) by msa.url.com.tw (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Oct 2003 05:08:31 -0000 FROM: "MS Internet Service" < > TO: "Email Client" SUBJECT: message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="gegtpdilewww" --- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 11:04:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 11:04:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18942 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 11:04:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18938 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 11:04:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 11:04:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7CAD19B36; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B20E19B39; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B126219B1A; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C279D19B30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] x509(8) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:03:21 -0600 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) The x509(8) man page is missing from the distribution, though it appears in the manpage index: plan9-2% lookman x509 man 2 rsa # rsa(2) man 8 x509 # x509(8) plan9-2% man x509 need /sys/man/8/x509 plan9-2% The reason I spotted is because I need to know if Plan 9's factotum understands x509 certificates. Is anyone using them? thanx, andrey From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 11:11:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 11:11:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19283 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 11:11:44 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19278 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 11:11:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 11:11:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1512019AE2; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E088219B1A; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:11:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52D7519AF3; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C39F19B0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADDxi-000F7w-03 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:15:30 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x509(8) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:03:21 MDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <58150.1067048129.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:15:29 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > The x509(8) man page is missing from the distribution, though it > appears in the manpage index: > > plan9-2% lookman x509 > man 2 rsa # rsa(2) > man 8 x509 # x509(8) > plan9-2% man x509 > need /sys/man/8/x509 > plan9-2% > > The reason I spotted is because I need to know if Plan 9's factotum > understands x509 certificates. Is anyone using them? x509(8) is dead. The man page index is out-of-date. See rsa(8) and pem(8). Factotum knows nothing about x509(8) certificates. Programs that care use thumbprint files in /sys/lib/tls. /sys/doc/auth.ps has more details. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 12:58:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 12:58:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23724 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 12:58:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23718 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 12:58:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 12:58:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE11919B0F; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3380519B35; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:58:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9732619B29; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B645319B0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6015 invoked by uid 991); 25 Oct 2003 03:57:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] bitstream vera Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 24 Oct 2003 23:57:23 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi folks, I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of point sizes, hopefully good ones. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 18:20:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 18:20:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4015 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 18:20:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4010 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 18:20:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 18:20:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E9CF199CC; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0409A19A71; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:20:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7420119A6A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C3B819A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imp1-a.free.fr (imp1-a.free.fr [213.228.0.79]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BD7C20E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:19:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by imp1-a.free.fr (Postfix, from userid 33) id 3E43212305; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:19:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from m251.net195-132-22.noos.fr (m251.net195-132-22.noos.fr [195.132.22.251]) by imp1-a.free.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:19:25 +0200 Message-ID: <1067073565.3f9a401d31684@imp1-a.free.fr> From: xigh@free.fr To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 Subject: [9fans] pcf config file ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:19:25 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,USER_AGENT_IMP version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I've just installed plan9 from the plan9.iso.bz2, configured a fossil based terminal, and tried to recompile the 'pcf' kernel, but it doesn't work at all. Where can I find the kernel config file used to compile the 'pcf' kernel which is on the iso image ? Thank you, Philippe Anel. Ps: I know I have to learn how to configure fossil+venti, but I'd rather release the radeon (laptop) driver before. -----------------------------/sys/src/9/pc/pcf--------- boot boot #S/sdC0/ il tcp local bootdir bootpcf.out boot /386/bin/ip/ipconfig /386/bin/auth/factotum /386/bin/disk/kfs /386/bin/fossil/fossil /386/bin/venti/venti -----------------------------/sys/src/9/pc/pcf--------- ------------------------------normal-boot-------- 1. sdC0!9fat!9pcf 2. sdC0!9fat!9pcf_radeon 3. none of the above bootfile: 1 found 9pcf .870083..........................................................................................................+1121644.........................................................................................................................................+90228=2081955 entry: 0x80100020 Plan 9 cpu0: 2290MHz GenuineIntel P4 (cpuid: AX 0x0F28 DX 0x3FEBFBFF) ELCR: 0E00 #l0: AMD79C970: 10Mbps port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C2990AF3D #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1060 irq 9 38953 free pages, 155812K bytes, 592612K swap root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]: user[none]: glenda time... fossil...dial net!$venti!venti: '/net/net/clone' file does not exist version...time... init: starting /bin/rc dossrv: serving #s/dos ------------------------------normal-boot-------- ------------------------recompiled-pcfl-boot----- 1. sdC0!9fat!9pcf 2. sdC0!9fat!9pcfati 3. none of the above bootfile: 2 found 9pcfati .871738..........................................................................................................+1137032...........................................................................................................................................+90236=2099006 entry: 0x80100020 Plan 9 cpu0: 2290MHz GenuineIntel P4 (cpuid: AX 0x0F28 DX 0x3FEBFBFF) ELCR: 0E00 i8253enable...#l0: AMD79C970: 10Mbps port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C2990AF3D #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1060 irq 9 38951 free pages, 155804K bytes, 592604K swap root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]: user[none]: glenda kfs...File system main inconsistent Would you like to ream it (y/n)? version...bad nvram key bad authentication id bad authentication domain tag = Tnone; expected Tdir; addr = 2 kfs init 7: FID1 attach to root kfs 7: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001d649 boot: can't init 9P: EOF receiving fversion reply panic: boot process died: unknown panic: boot process died: unknown cpu0: exiting ------------------------recompiled-pcfl-boot----- ------------------------------plan9.ini---------- bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf_radeon bootargs=local!#S/sdC0/fossil bootdisk=local!#S/sdC0/fossil *nomp=1 partition=new console=0 mouseport=ps2 monitor=multisync110 vgasize=1024x768x32 ------------------------------plan9.ini---------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 22:23:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 22:23:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12566 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 22:23:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12559 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 22:22:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 22:22:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3BDB19B14; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D6FC19B46; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB50E19A14; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10AD719A95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Eric Grosse To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x509(8) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:21:09 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > x509(8) is dead. The man page index is out-of-date. > See rsa(8) and pem(8). See also rsa(2) and /sys/src/libsec/port/x509.c. We use X.509 certificates because the rest of the world does, and so this is a feasible way to ship public keys around, whether or not you buy into the whole PKI hierarchy. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 23:08:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 23:08:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13700 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 23:08:05 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13694 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 23:08:00 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 23:08:00 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD0E319B51; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4624619B1F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:07:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D29F819AEF; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8A4B19B2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.38.115.196]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <20031025140607011008qt9ke>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:06:08 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 11950B28CE; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:06:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera Message-ID: <20031025140603.GA9479@ionkov.net> References: <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:06:03 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) ttf2subf uses 72 dpi. Lucho On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 11:57:23PM -0400, Scott Schwartz said: > Hi folks, > > I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: > http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 > > I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of > point sizes, hopefully good ones. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sat Oct 25 23:29:07 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sat Oct 25 23:29:07 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 14172 invoked by uid 1020); 25 Oct 2003 23:29:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 14162 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 23:28:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 23:28:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8765F19B19; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 267C519B4F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:28:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0948019B1A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55B5D199C0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PERbaJ022020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:27:39 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PERbSA032346 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:27:37 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PERbCA021926 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:27:37 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: <1067073565.3f9a401d31684@imp1-a.free.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:27:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 xigh@free.fr wrote: > I've just installed plan9 from the plan9.iso.bz2, > configured a fossil based terminal, and tried to recompile the > 'pcf' kernel, but it doesn't work at all. did you install this over a previous installation? It looks like it's having the problem my install had of finding a kfs partition instead of the fossil partition. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 00:42:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 00:42:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15964 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 00:42:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15960 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 00:42:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 00:42:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C27219B30; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19C6719B5A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:42:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE17719A9B; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1719919B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 74985547 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 2003 15:26:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO noos.fr) ([212.198.2.177]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Oct 2003 15:26:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: NOOSwebmail v2 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Anel Philippe" Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <20031025154056.1719919B41@mail.cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: philippe.anel@noos.fr List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 03 17:26:08 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>did you install this over a previous installation? It >>looks like it's >>having the problem my install had of finding a kfs >>partition instead of >>the fossil partition. >> >>ron No I didn't. I've installed this on a harddisk I've previously formated. It's seems there is a problem with the installation cd. At least, the system works perfectly when using the default kernel (the one installed with the cd), but I can't use the kernel I've compiled. Philippe, Ps: To reproduce the problem: 1- install the cd (using text/instonly because my radeon isn't supported yet :) ). 2- reboot 3- log as 'sys' 4- cd /sys/src/9/pc 5- mk 'CONF=pcf' 6- 9fat: 7- cp 9pcf /n/9fat/9pcf2 8- add bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf2 to plan9.ini 9- reboot 10- use 9pcf2 kernel ps2: I've also seen nearly the same problem when I tried to pull the latest sources. (ie though I'm using fossil, /srv/kfs where accessed) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 01:05:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 01:05:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16662 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 01:05:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16658 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 01:05:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 01:05:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C660C19A7F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6560019B3E; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:05:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA6E519B02; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-03.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 907D419991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14574634 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 2003 16:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Oct 2003 16:04:26 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031025111618.025c2350@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [9fans] pcf config file ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:17:18 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I've just installed plan9 from the plan9.iso.bz2, configured a fossil based terminal, and tried to recompile the 'pcf' kernel, but it doesn't work at all. Where can I find the kernel config file used to compile the 'pcf' kernel which is on the iso image ? Thank you, Philippe Anel. Ps: I know I have to learn how to configure fossil+venti, but I'd rather finish the radeon driver before. -----------------------------/sys/src/9/pc/pcf--------- boot boot #S/sdC0/ il tcp local bootdir bootpcf.out boot /386/bin/ip/ipconfig /386/bin/auth/factotum /386/bin/disk/kfs /386/bin/fossil/fossil /386/bin/venti/venti -----------------------------/sys/src/9/pc/pcf--------- ------------------------------normal-boot-------- 1. sdC0!9fat!9pcf 2. sdC0!9fat!9pcf_radeon 3. none of the above bootfile: 1 found 9pcf .870083..........................................................................................................+1121644.........................................................................................................................................+90228=2081955 entry: 0x80100020 Plan 9 cpu0: 2290MHz GenuineIntel P4 (cpuid: AX 0x0F28 DX 0x3FEBFBFF) ELCR: 0E00 #l0: AMD79C970: 10Mbps port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C2990AF3D #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1060 irq 9 38953 free pages, 155812K bytes, 592612K swap root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]: user[none]: glenda time... fossil...dial net!$venti!venti: '/net/net/clone' file does not exist version...time... init: starting /bin/rc dossrv: serving #s/dos ------------------------------normal-boot-------- ------------------------recompiled-pcfl-boot----- 1. sdC0!9fat!9pcf 2. sdC0!9fat!9pcfati 3. none of the above bootfile: 2 found 9pcfati .871738..........................................................................................................+1137032...........................................................................................................................................+90236=2099006 entry: 0x80100020 Plan 9 cpu0: 2290MHz GenuineIntel P4 (cpuid: AX 0x0F28 DX 0x3FEBFBFF) ELCR: 0E00 i8253enable...#l0: AMD79C970: 10Mbps port 0x10C0 irq 11: 000C2990AF3D #U/usb0: uhci: port 0x1060 irq 9 38951 free pages, 155804K bytes, 592604K swap root is from (il, tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]: user[none]: glenda kfs...File system main inconsistent Would you like to ream it (y/n)? version...bad nvram key bad authentication id bad authentication domain tag = Tnone; expected Tdir; addr = 2 kfs init 7: FID1 attach to root kfs 7: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001d649 boot: can't init 9P: EOF receiving fversion reply panic: boot process died: unknown panic: boot process died: unknown cpu0: exiting ------------------------recompiled-pcfl-boot----- ------------------------------plan9.ini---------- bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf_radeon bootargs=local!#S/sdC0/fossil bootdisk=local!#S/sdC0/fossil *nomp=1 partition=new console=0 mouseport=ps2 monitor=multisync110 vgasize=1024x768x32 ------------------------------plan9.ini---------- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 01:28:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 01:28:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17490 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 01:28:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17486 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 01:28:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 01:28:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F408519B34; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79EDF19B56; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:28:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB545199C0; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1258319B3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGRWaJ024948 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:32 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGRW9J030448 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:32 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGRVCA024479 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:31 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: <20031025154056.1719919B41@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Anel Philippe wrote: > It's seems there is a problem with the installation > cd. I have not seen that. I have been installing a lot with that cd lately, as I keep screwing up -- er, I mean, I keep learning by doing. My latest install happened when I had it all working and ... the IBM travelstar died (click .. click .. click .. click) At this point I've made every possible mistake you can make on installs, you betcha, and this is one problem I have not seen. > I can't use the kernel I've compiled. > 1- install the cd (using text/instonly because > my radeon isn't supported yet :) ). > 2- reboot > 3- log as 'sys' > 4- cd /sys/src/9/pc > 5- mk 'CONF=pcf' > 6- 9fat: > 7- cp 9pcf /n/9fat/9pcf2 > 8- add bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf2 to plan9.ini > 9- reboot > 10- use 9pcf2 kernel Weird, I did exactly this step and it worked fine. I could send you the pcf I have built to see if you have the same problem. When you say 'clean install', what precisely was on that disk before you did the install? and, did the install procedure ask you about writing the MBR? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 01:53:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 01:53:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18140 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 01:53:06 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18129 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 01:52:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 01:52:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB9CA19B4F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B56719B5F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:52:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD13E19A6A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-04.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F1F119A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16751529 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 2003 16:51:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Oct 2003 16:51:47 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031025184331.026099c0@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: References: <20031025154056.1719919B41@mail.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:52:37 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 18:27 25/10/03, you wrote: >On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Anel Philippe wrote: > > > It's seems there is a problem with the installation > > cd. > >I have not seen that. I have been installing a lot with that cd lately, as >I keep screwing up -- er, I mean, I keep learning by doing. My latest >install happened when I had it all working and ... the IBM travelstar died >(click .. click .. click .. click) Same problem here with my 2 year old IBM 40GB disk (kfs). >At this point I've made every possible mistake you can make on installs, >you betcha, and this is one problem I have not seen. Hehe ... Therefore, I suspect I have a bad karma :) > > I can't use the kernel I've compiled. > > > 1- install the cd (using text/instonly because > > my radeon isn't supported yet :) ). > > 2- reboot > > 3- log as 'sys' > > 4- cd /sys/src/9/pc > > 5- mk 'CONF=pcf' > > 6- 9fat: > > 7- cp 9pcf /n/9fat/9pcf2 > > 8- add bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf2 to plan9.ini > > 9- reboot > > 10- use 9pcf2 kernel > >Weird, I did exactly this step and it worked fine. I could send you the >pcf I have built to see if you have the same problem. Ok. But the I really need to recompile the kernel. I think I'll re-install a kfs based standalone terminal. >When you say 'clean install', what precisely was on that disk before you >did the install? Err... Windows XP :) Perhaps it not my bad karma's fault after all. >and, did the install procedure ask you about writing the >MBR? Yes, but I didn't installed it because I'm using the FreeBSD multiboot mbr. Regards, Philippe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 02:01:18 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 02:01:18 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18305 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 02:01:17 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18301 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 02:01:16 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 02:01:16 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B68C19B31; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB0E119B69; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:00:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 932D719A92; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55C7B19B65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGxRaJ025624 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:27 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGxRSA011999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:27 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9PGxOCA025262 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031025184331.026099c0@pop.noos.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Philippe Anel wrote: > I think I'll re-install a kfs based standalone terminal. I wouldn't do that, stick with your work and get fossil going. It's worth it, even with the occasional problems. > >When you say 'clean install', what precisely was on that disk before you > >did the install? > > Err... Windows XP :) > Perhaps it not my bad karma's fault after all. I had no luck getting the fossil cd working until I could do this: cp /dev/zero /dev/sdC0/data and just toast whatever was on there. That's what worked for me. I have no idea what the implications of the multiboot mbr are for Plan 9 however. good luck. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 02:02:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 02:02:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 18328 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 02:02:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 18324 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 02:02:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 02:02:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13FBF19B5D; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FCFD19B67; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:02:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BEF7619B67; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7059119B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADRsR-000GrP-TU for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:59 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:27:30 MDT." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <64813.1067101617.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:57 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > > 1- install the cd (using text/instonly because > > my radeon isn't supported yet :) ). > > 2- reboot > > 3- log as 'sys' > > 4- cd /sys/src/9/pc > > 5- mk 'CONF=pcf' > > 6- 9fat: > > 7- cp 9pcf /n/9fat/9pcf2 > > 8- add bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf2 to plan9.ini > > 9- reboot > > 10- use 9pcf2 kernel if you run fossil/conf /dev/sdC0/fossil what does it print? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 02:53:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 02:53:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19895 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 02:53:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19891 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 02:53:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 02:53:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5D2C19B53; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6258719B41; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:53:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BBC219B21; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.90]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4321619B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) id <0HNB00H01QK3Z6@mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> (original mail from christian.grothaus@uni-bielefeld.de) for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:52:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from plan9.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de ([129.70.3.9]) by mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPP id <0HNB00JBUQZ2NT@mail2.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:52:14 +0200 (MEST) From: Christian Grothaus Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <39e86f696a63ad615645568136e36731@uni-bielefeld.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:42:21 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Sorry to intervene, this is not directly related to Philippe's problem: I just did a fresh replica/pull from the sources and tried to recompile the pcf kernel with While trying to reproduce Philippe's problem with the pcf kernel, I encountered another: After a fresh replica/pull from the sources, I executed % cd /sys/src/9/pc % mk 'CONF=pcf' 9pcf and mk stopped with the error 8c -FVw -I. ../port/devtls.c ../port/devtls.c:1701 name not declared: encodefmt mk: 8c -FVw -I. ../port/devtls.c : exit status=rc 39119: 8c 39121: error . However, with the version of devtls.c from /n/dump/2003/1020/... it compiles fine. (Or am I missing something, maybe another file that didn't get updated during the pull?) Thanks and greetings Christian From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 03:06:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 03:06:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 20621 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 03:06:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 20607 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 03:06:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 03:06:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8727619B43; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ECD819B54; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:06:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C70619B25; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-06.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F96619B3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 74934442 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 2003 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Oct 2003 17:47:59 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031025194831.04ab43d0@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:48:54 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 19:06 25/10/03, you wrote: > > > 1- install the cd (using text/instonly because > > > my radeon isn't supported yet :) ). > > > 2- reboot > > > 3- log as 'sys' > > > 4- cd /sys/src/9/pc > > > 5- mk 'CONF=pcf' > > > 6- 9fat: > > > 7- cp 9pcf /n/9fat/9pcf2 > > > 8- add bootfile=sdC0!9fat!9pcf2 to plan9.ini > > > 9- reboot > > > 10- use 9pcf2 kernel > >if you run > > fossil/conf /dev/sdC0/fossil > >what does it print? fsys main config /dev/sdC0/fossil fsys main open -V -c 3000 # fsys main snaptime -a 0500 Philippe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 03:22:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 03:22:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21268 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 03:22:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21264 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 03:22:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 03:22:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B7A919B5B; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7663E19B67; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 267A919B22; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B59C719B5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADT7w-000HBZ-9X for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:27:04 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:19:25 +0200." <1067073565.3f9a401d31684@imp1-a.free.fr> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <66063.1067106422.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:27:02 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'm not sure what's causing your problem. put some print statements in /sys/src/9/boot/local.c's connectlocalfossil() to see which of the silent return -1s is firing. (they are silent so that if you're running kfs you don't get warnings about fossil not existing.) connectlocalfossil() has decided that this isn't a fossil system so it hands over the reins to kfs. russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 03:31:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 03:31:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 21746 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 03:30:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 21742 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 03:30:58 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 03:30:58 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CC5E19B25; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66A1519A9A; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CD9B199D5; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 781B719AFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADT3B-000HAv-7k for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:09 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:42:21 +0200." <39e86f696a63ad615645568136e36731@uni-bielefeld.de> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <66023.1067106126.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:22:06 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > ../port/devtls.c:1701 name not declared: encodefmt you need a new port/lib.h. i just pushed it out. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 04:57:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 04:57:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 25021 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 04:57:00 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 25016 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 04:56:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 04:56:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BCB119B29; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D90B19AE1; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:56:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBFA419AEF; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-14.noos.net [212.198.2.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBDDB199DC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8589 invoked by uid 0); 25 Oct 2003 19:55:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([::ffff:195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by ::ffff:212.198.2.122 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 25 Oct 2003 19:55:27 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031025213405.04dd5600@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:39:29 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 20:27 25/10/03, you wrote: >i'm not sure what's causing your problem. put some print >statements in /sys/src/9/boot/local.c's connectlocalfossil() >to see which of the silent return -1s is firing. >(they are silent so that if you're running kfs you don't >get warnings about fossil not existing.) > >connectlocalfossil() has decided that this isn't a fossil >system so it hands over the reins to kfs. > >russ Hello, There is no connectlocalfossil() in my /sys/src/9/boot/local.c At least, I now understand why my kernel tries to boot using kfs :) Should I have to download a new iso ? (I downloaded mine last week). Philippe, From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 08:13:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 08:13:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32061 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 08:13:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32057 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 08:13:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 08:13:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DD4E19B25; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09E6419B20; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:13:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CE17199DC; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F358019B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADXfY-000IKQ-BW for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:18:04 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:39:29 +0200." <6.0.0.22.0.20031025213405.04dd5600@pop.noos.fr> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <70456.1067123884.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:18:04 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > There is no connectlocalfossil() in my /sys/src/9/boot/local.c > At least, I now understand why my kernel tries to boot using kfs :) The ISO on the web page is a little old. You can either install with the bleeding-edge ISO (on the updates page) or do a pull to bring your system up-to-date. With the new port/lib.h, 9pcf should build just fine. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 08:31:20 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 08:31:20 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32748 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 08:31:19 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32744 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 08:31:19 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 08:31:19 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3487E19B47; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7276D19AE1; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:30:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7E9519A53; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B083A19B03 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADXwI-000IMq-7Z for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:35:22 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera In-Reply-To: Your message of "24 Oct 2003 23:57:23 EDT." <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <70606.1067124921.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:35:21 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: > http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 > > I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of > point sizes, hopefully good ones. That's a nice font. Does it look good in 1-bit depth? (I find the multibit fonts too fuzzy for every-day use. I think my eyes keep trying to focus better.) Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 09:03:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 09:03:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1608 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 09:03:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1604 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 09:03:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 09:03:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6F6B19AD9; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26AC619B1D; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:03:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C86FA19B1F; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5091419B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8828 invoked by uid 991); 26 Oct 2003 00:02:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20031026000222.8827.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to "Russ Cox" message dated "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:35:21 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:02:22 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | That's a nice font. Does it look good in 1-bit depth? | (I find the multibit fonts too fuzzy for every-day use. | I think my eyes keep trying to focus better.) Yes, it's pretty good. I'll make some non-fuzzy versions. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Sun Oct 26 23:08:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Sun Oct 26 23:08:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29565 invoked by uid 1020); 26 Oct 2003 23:08:07 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29553 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 23:07:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 23:07:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F30719B7D; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9AD219B8E; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:27 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C9D519B1A; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB4D419B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.38.115.196]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003102614055101100c4qc7e>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:05:51 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 189C4B3220; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 -0500 (EST) From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera Message-ID: <20031026140547.GA5550@ionkov.net> References: <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Speaking about multibit fonts ... I was trying to add suport for subpixel fonts. I think the easier way to implement that is to make memimagedraw to apply the channels of the "mask" image (if it is not monocrhome) to the appropriate channels of the "src" image. Currently it generates a greyscale image and applies it to every channel. Is that change going to break anything? Is it a good idea at all? Thanks, Lucho On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 07:35:21PM -0400, Russ Cox said: > > I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: > > http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 > > > > I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of > > point sizes, hopefully good ones. > > That's a nice font. Does it look good in 1-bit depth? > (I find the multibit fonts too fuzzy for every-day use. > I think my eyes keep trying to focus better.) > > Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 00:07:55 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 00:07:55 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31352 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 00:07:53 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31348 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 00:07:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 00:07:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EA9219ADF; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:07:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 871B319B74; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:07:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AAED419B6F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:06:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2F6619B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADmYQ-000JS0-SI for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:11:42 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 EST." <20031026140547.GA5550@ionkov.net> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <74770.1067181102.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:11:42 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I was trying to add suport for subpixel fonts. I think the easier way to > implement that is to make memimagedraw to apply the channels of the "mask" > image (if it is not monocrhome) to the appropriate channels of the "src" > image. Currently it generates a greyscale image and applies it to every > channel. > > Is that change going to break anything? I doubt it. I can't think of any software that uses color images as masks. Perhaps faces does, but it's a clumsy hack and would be easy to fix should the need arise. > Is it a good idea at all? That's less clear. All the subpixel fonts I've seen still look fuzzy enough that I wouldn't use them for much. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 00:56:14 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 00:56:14 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 32507 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 00:56:13 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 32503 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 00:56:12 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 00:56:12 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2C9419A78; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:55:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B050519A78; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:55:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B476F19AD1; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:54:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 160EE19B8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:53:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera In-Reply-To: <20031026140547.GA5550@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-thnpqnbvbdpfvkkxdgmkkcxwkt" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:57:02 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-thnpqnbvbdpfvkkxdgmkkcxwkt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit is that canonical? any references? i'd like to know that's really what is supposed to be implemented, without having to go off to investigate, since i've got a lot on at the moment. --upas-thnpqnbvbdpfvkkxdgmkkcxwkt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1ADlYe-0001kb-BM; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:48:46 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1ADlYe-0001kb-BM; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:07:52 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 095FA19B35; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8ACF19B86; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:07:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C9D519B1A; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB4D419B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.38.115.196]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003102614055101100c4qc7e>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:05:51 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 189C4B3220; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 -0500 (EST) From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera Message-ID: <20031026140547.GA5550@ionkov.net> References: <20031025035723.6014.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Speaking about multibit fonts ... I was trying to add suport for subpixel fonts. I think the easier way to implement that is to make memimagedraw to apply the channels of the "mask" image (if it is not monocrhome) to the appropriate channels of the "src" image. Currently it generates a greyscale image and applies it to every channel. Is that change going to break anything? Is it a good idea at all? Thanks, Lucho On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 07:35:21PM -0400, Russ Cox said: > > I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: > > http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 > > > > I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of > > point sizes, hopefully good ones. > > That's a nice font. Does it look good in 1-bit depth? > (I find the multibit fonts too fuzzy for every-day use. > I think my eyes keep trying to focus better.) > > Russ --upas-thnpqnbvbdpfvkkxdgmkkcxwkt-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 02:50:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 02:50:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3204 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 02:50:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3200 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 02:50:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 02:50:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8D2919B6F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADB1519B79; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F67519B7A; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:49:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5515919B69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:48:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.38.115.196]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2003102617485201200576fhe>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:48:53 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 1B1B4B31F4; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:48:39 -0500 (EST) From: Latchesar Ionkov To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera Message-ID: <20031026174839.GA21901@ionkov.net> References: <20031026140547.GA5550@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:48:39 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:57:02PM +0000, C H Forsyth said: > is that canonical? any references? i'd like to know that's really > what is supposed to be implemented, without having to > go off to investigate, since i've got a lot on at the moment. I don't know if it is canonical and I don't have any references. Finding out that is one of the reasons I asked on the mailing list before I start implementing it. I just looks as the easiest way of implementing subpixel fonts -- the font image is used as a mask for memdraw, if the red, green, and blue channels from the mask are used as masks for red, green, and blue channels we can get the subpixel font drawn properly. Thanks, Lucho > From: Latchesar Ionkov > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Subject: Re: [9fans] bitstream vera > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:05:47 -0500 > > Speaking about multibit fonts ... > > I was trying to add suport for subpixel fonts. I think the easier way to > implement that is to make memimagedraw to apply the channels of the "mask" > image (if it is not monocrhome) to the appropriate channels of the "src" > image. Currently it generates a greyscale image and applies it to every > channel. > > Is that change going to break anything? Is it a good idea at all? > > Thanks, > Lucho > > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 07:35:21PM -0400, Russ Cox said: > > > I've converted Bitstream Vera to Plan 9 format: > > > http://www.cse.psu.edu/~schwartz/vera.tar.bz2 > > > > > > I'm not sure what dpi ttf2subf is using, but I selected a handful of > > > point sizes, hopefully good ones. > > > > That's a nice font. Does it look good in 1-bit depth? > > (I find the multibit fonts too fuzzy for every-day use. > > I think my eyes keep trying to focus better.) > > > > Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 03:10:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 03:10:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3740 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 03:10:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3727 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 03:10:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 03:10:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3C4219B3F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8648719B1B; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:10:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4CFC19A96; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:09:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-12.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FF2319A6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7681491 invoked by uid 0); 26 Oct 2003 18:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Oct 2003 18:09:01 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031026190759.039c0830@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:09:51 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 00:18 26/10/03, you wrote: > > There is no connectlocalfossil() in my /sys/src/9/boot/local.c > > At least, I now understand why my kernel tries to boot using kfs :) > >The ISO on the web page is a little old. >You can either install with the bleeding-edge >ISO (on the updates page) or do a pull to bring >your system up-to-date. With the new port/lib.h, >9pcf should build just fine. > >Russ I've just downloaded and configured the bleeding-edge ISO. When I tried to pull the latest sources : term% replica/pull -sv /dist/replica/network post... !Adding key: dom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com proto=p9sk1 user[sys]: xigh password: ! kfs init 166: can't open /dev/sdC0/fs kfs 166: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001d649 mount: can't open /srv/kfs: '/srv/kfs' file does not exist clientmount: 9fs 164: mount 167: open term% what's wrong ? Thanks, Philippe. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 03:21:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 03:21:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4034 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 03:21:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4030 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 03:21:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 03:21:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 48A4D19B5F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDD0D19A19; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:21:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDC8A19B0D; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77FBF19B3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9QIKSaJ003440 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:29 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9QIKS9J019083 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:28 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9QIKRCA028938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:27 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031026190759.039c0830@pop.noos.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:26 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Philippe Anel wrote: > term% replica/pull -sv /dist/replica/network > post... > > !Adding key: dom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com proto=p9sk1 > user[sys]: xigh > password: > ! > kfs init 166: can't open /dev/sdC0/fs Andrey's changes: plan9-2% history -D /dist/replica/network Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /dist/replica/network 466 [bootes] Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network 466 [bootes] /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network:13,15 c /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network:13,15 < fn clientmount { 9fs boot } < c=/n/boot/dist/replica < clientroot=/n/boot --- > fn clientmount { 9fs kfs } > c=/n/kfs/dist/replica > clientroot=/n/kfs Oct 24 11:43:35 MDT 2002 /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network 463 [bootes] plan9-2% ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 03:22:11 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 03:22:11 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4044 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 03:22:10 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4040 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 03:22:10 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 03:22:10 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5120119B77; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED94719B0D; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:21:47 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16D4219B60; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:21:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1E8519AFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADpad-000Kxr-PK for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:26:11 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:09:51 +0100." <6.0.0.22.0.20031026190759.039c0830@pop.noos.fr> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <80589.1067192769.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:26:09 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > At 00:18 26/10/03, you wrote: > > > There is no connectlocalfossil() in my /sys/src/9/boot/local.c > > > At least, I now understand why my kernel tries to boot using kfs :) > > > >The ISO on the web page is a little old. > >You can either install with the bleeding-edge > >ISO (on the updates page) or do a pull to bring > >your system up-to-date. With the new port/lib.h, > >9pcf should build just fine. > > > >Russ > > I've just downloaded and configured the bleeding-edge ISO. > When I tried to pull the latest sources : > > term% replica/pull -sv /dist/replica/network > post... > > !Adding key: dom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com proto=p9sk1 > user[sys]: xigh > password: > ! > kfs init 166: can't open /dev/sdC0/fs > kfs 166: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001d649 > mount: can't open /srv/kfs: '/srv/kfs' file does not exist > clientmount: 9fs 164: mount 167: open > term% > > what's wrong ? pull is hard-coded to run "9fs kfs". really you should be using dan cross's /dist/replica/dist, but i never remember how to do that. instead you can just create a /srv/kfs that pull will be able to mount (it doesn't see one so it starts kfs). echo 1 >/srv/kfs ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ADpeb-000Kz8-NP for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:30:17 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:26 MST." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <80668.1067193017.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:30:17 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Andrey's changes: > > plan9-2% history -D /dist/replica/network > Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /dist/replica/network 466 [bootes] > Jul 4 13:19:30 MDT 2003 /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network 466 > [bootes] > /n/dump/2003/1009/dist/replica/network:13,15 c > /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network:13,15 > < fn clientmount { 9fs boot } > < c=/n/boot/dist/replica > < clientroot=/n/boot > --- > > fn clientmount { 9fs kfs } > > c=/n/kfs/dist/replica > > clientroot=/n/kfs > Oct 24 11:43:35 MDT 2002 /n/dump/2003/0704/dist/replica/network 463 > [bootes] > plan9-2% listen to ron. my srv trick doesn't work for read/write srvs. whoops. i have a program called aux/repost somewhere but i can't find it. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 03:33:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 03:33:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4336 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 03:33:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4332 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 03:33:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 03:33:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D51119A72; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:33:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B247819A3E; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:33:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75CD019A3E; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23E5F19B0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00567 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h9QIWJl21300 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310261832.h9QIWJl21300@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:26:09 EST." From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:32:18 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) "Russ Cox" writes: > pull is hard-coded to run "9fs kfs". really you should be using > dan cross's /dist/replica/dist, but i never remember how to do that. > instead you can just create a /srv/kfs that pull will be able > to mount (it doesn't see one so it starts kfs). > > echo 1 >/srv/kfs > should do the trick. It's called `inst', and while it's on sources, it never made it to the base distribution. It is, however, pretty easy to use: term% mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst term% 9fs sources term% cp /n/sources/plan9/dist/replica/inst /dist/replica term% bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist term% replica/pull -v /dist/replica/inst After my thinkpad died a horrible, gurgling death, I bought an iBook running MacOS X. When jmk updated the ethernet drivers such that VirtualPC for the Mac worked (well, it already worked, but now the network worked, too), I bought and installed VirtualPC. It's quite nice, if a little slow, and gave me an opportunity to jump from KFS to fossil (which I did). After doing so, however, I'm a little dismayed about how much still depends on kfs, particularly the replica scripts under /dist/replica (and in individual package replica scripts). It seems to me that if fossil is the way to go moving forward, it would behoove us to update the other parts of the system to treat it with a little more respect. To that end, I like Andrey's modification that Ron just posted; it'll also work on fileservers and the like. In short, we should be updating the system to be more general, not trying to fool things into looking vaguely like kfs so old tools will continue working. As an aside, I also had an idea for /dist/replica/site, or /dist/relica/site.local, which could be customized with a particular site's localizations (applyopts and the like). Then replica scripts could `.' it, effectively customizing themselves for given site configurations (the most obvious example would be doing things like overriding default clientroot's). I still think it's a good idea, but it never took off. - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 04:38:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 04:38:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 6094 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 04:38:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 6090 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 04:38:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 04:38:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8887019B88; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:38:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 112F919A91; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:38:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D20D319B1F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-10.noos.net [212.198.2.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E8D919B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 165521242 invoked by uid 0); 26 Oct 2003 19:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.22.204]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.81 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Oct 2003 19:36:59 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031026203433.04e13770@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] pcf config file ... In-Reply-To: <200310261832.h9QIWJl21300@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: <200310261832.h9QIWJl21300@augusta.math.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:37:49 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 19:32 26/10/03, you wrote: >"Russ Cox" writes: > > pull is hard-coded to run "9fs kfs". really you should be using > > dan cross's /dist/replica/dist, but i never remember how to do that. > > instead you can just create a /srv/kfs that pull will be able > > to mount (it doesn't see one so it starts kfs). > > > > echo 1 >/srv/kfs > > > should do the trick. > >It's called `inst', and while it's on sources, it never made it to the >base distribution. It is, however, pretty easy to use: > > term% mount -c /srv/boot /n/inst > term% 9fs sources > term% cp /n/sources/plan9/dist/replica/inst /dist/replica > term% bind /n/sources/plan9 /n/dist > term% replica/pull -v /dist/replica/inst It worked ! Thank you. > After doing so, however, I'm a little dismayed >about how much still depends on kfs, particularly the replica scripts >under /dist/replica (and in individual package replica scripts). It >seems to me that if fossil is the way to go moving forward, it would >behoove us to update the other parts of the system to treat it with a >little more respect. To that end, I like Andrey's modification that >Ron just posted; it'll also work on fileservers and the like. In >short, we should be updating the system to be more general, not trying >to fool things into looking vaguely like kfs so old tools will continue >working. I agree with you. Philippe, From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 06:11:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 06:11:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8667 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 06:11:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8663 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 06:11:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 06:11:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAB6D19B8F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C74B19B3F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:11:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3755319B1F; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EB3E19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:09:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <73e92e797fe4409d9224bfc51969f0c3@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sub-pixel From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20031026174839.GA21901@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:06:27 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) i'm sorry that earlier message was a bit abrupt because i was in a hurry, and it sounded a little grumpy although i wasn't. i've since had time to look up a cheerfully enthusiastic summary on a web page http://grc.com/ctwhat.htm, and reduced my ignorance a bit, assuming the page is accurate. unfortunately, now that i've read it, i'm feeling uneasy about building so many assumptions about a particular implementation of the display device into the drawing primitives, especially a technique with so many restrictions. you're probably right that it's an easy way to get the effect you seek, and indeed i can't suggest a sensibly constructive alternative if that's what you aim to do, but is it the right thing to do to the primitives? it's possibly not as bad as the decision to build a particular gamma correction into all image values, as is sometimes done elsewhere, but is it really that different? for instance, with `sub-pixel' rendering (as i understand it) the resulting image if stored and redisplayed won't look good as you change the type of display. the `only landscape not portrait' aspect is also unsettling (it won't work on my iPAQ, again, as i currently understand it). unfortunately unlike gamma correction it seems hard to shift the transformation to the display, although that's what i'd have preferred to do in this case. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 10:05:15 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 10:05:15 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17579 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 10:05:08 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17558 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 10:05:05 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 10:05:05 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86B7319B8B; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A6FE19B87; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:40:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B63F019B4C; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:39:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from gh-mail.centurytel.net (gh-mail.centurytel.net [209.206.160.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D330F19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from laptopvmw.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by gh-mail.centurytel.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9R0dfZ2009605 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:39:45 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Skip Tavakkolian" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] AWK's split Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:40:04 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Shouldn't split(s,a,"") break the string s into an array of runes, (i.e. keep the Unicode char intact?) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 16:49:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 16:49:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 12335 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 16:49:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 12330 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 16:49:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 16:49:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DABB019B69; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2150419BB3; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:49:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EC8A19B72; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:48:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.foobarbaz.net (unknown [216.218.196.232]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCC5519B69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.foobarbaz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6B1E166B45; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:48:13 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] venti+fossil, the boot process, and 48-bit lba Message-ID: <20031027074813.GJ834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> References: <20031022172953.GA834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20031022195940.GD834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> <20031023021628.GH834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031023021628.GH834@cassie.foobarbaz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:48:13 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:16:28PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > That didn't work. It shut up 9load about the partitions, but > venti still couldn't open the partition. > > Unless someone has a better idea, I'm going to proceed with > incorporating fdisk and prep into /boot and teach boot to > use them to sniff out the partitions. Everything is back in working order. However, the solution is a complete hack, specific to my configuration, and not worth sending in patches. I'll have a go at fixing it properly when I have the time, but that may not be before ron has a better solution replacing 9load. BTW, my idea of a proper solution is teaching 9load about 48-bit LBA. I like having the configuration info on the partition. As expected, it makes for much simpler management of the fileserver. Thanks to everyone that had suggestions. -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 19:21:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 19:21:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19123 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 19:21:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19118 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 19:21:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 19:21:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72F6219BB9; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F3BF19BB9; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:21:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 155E319AAD; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 905AF19BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:20:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1AE4J3-0005iz-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Oleg Cherkasov Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <765701e8cf4f1f673fd9b80b15a17b81@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:08:07 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) presotto@closedmind.org (David Presotto) wrote in message news:<765701e8cf4f1f673fd9b80b15a17b81@plan9.bell-labs.com>... > If ctl-alt-del works, the keyboard isn't locked up; some part of the system > is. Try typing ^t^tp and see if it tells you what processes are running. > -- I tried, it does not work. It does work before my keyboard/PC will be locked but it does not work right after it locked. As I have written into the thread, I shall give up with that PC and look up for a new one, I mean the OLD one of course :-) The PC does not worth it to spend so much time get it work. Thank you! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 19:22:03 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 19:22:03 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19136 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 19:22:02 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19132 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 19:22:02 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 19:22:02 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA3A119BBE; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DDAE19BC7; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:21:45 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B273619B1F; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9074819BB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:20:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1AE4J3-0005it-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:09:01 +0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Oleg Cherkasov Message-ID: Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: , <1d8958a70db52b9bd5ee9e8e77a9474c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Installing on IBM 760CD locks keyboard after a while Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:07:48 GMT X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote in message news:<1d8958a70db52b9bd5ee9e8e77a9474c@plan9.bell-labs.com>... > > What is your BIOS revision number and how much memory do you have? Well, I am afraid it is not possible bacause it is IBM ThinkPad ... During the boot process it shows IBM/ThinkPad logo and a memory amount, it is 56M by the way. If floppy drive is not connected then it prints some numbers but I do not know how to interpret them, I guess it is an error message. BIOS could be activated by pressing 1 during boot process (it took me a while to get it). It has options to test for all devices present but nothing else. I run all tests available and it went fine. It is funny, I would say the BIOS is completely useless to anybody nonetheless it has mouse cursors animated! It looks like during the boot I got 32M memory reported: 8203 pages 33012K bytes Could it be a problem? Think I shall give up with that PC. It takes so much time of yours guys and mine, It does not worth it really. Thank you for your help anyway! From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 22:08:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 22:08:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23924 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 22:08:36 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23920 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 22:08:36 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 22:08:36 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0077519AA8; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E49A19B84; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:08:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35D8F19AA8; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:07:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22B2D19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:07:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <282c78e6ec6bc78ab2d7cad2c2466c62@yourdomain.dom> From: steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [9fans] kfs un-removable file Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:07:01 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Maybe I should just ignore this but I have managed to create a file that I cannot remove (under kfs). I have tried disk/kfscmd 'remove /usr/steve/work/pcp/e€€B' and disk/kfscmd 'clri /usr/steve/work/pcp/e€€B' but both of them error with "can't walk e€€B" NB the above where cut and paste so the runes are correct. term% ls -lq (000000000000f6c5 1 00) --rw-r--r-- M 8 steve steve 0 Sep 18 12:56 e€€B term% ls | xd -c 0000000 e c2 80 c2 80 B \n 0000007 Anyone any ideas how I can get rid of this file? -Steve From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Mon Oct 27 22:30:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Mon Oct 27 22:30:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 24501 invoked by uid 1020); 27 Oct 2003 22:30:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 24497 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2003 22:30:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 27 Oct 2003 22:30:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC8B119AA8; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:30:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99F9419BAB; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:30:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D397119B5E; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33D9819A6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AE7WQ-000GOT-5t for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:35:02 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs un-removable file In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:07:01." <282c78e6ec6bc78ab2d7cad2c2466c62@yourdomain.dom> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <63019.1067261701.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:35:01 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > Maybe I should just ignore this but I have managed to > create a file that I cannot remove (under kfs). > > I have tried > disk/kfscmd 'remove /usr/steve/work/pcp/e=C2=80=C2=80B' > and= > disk/kfscmd 'clri /usr/steve/work/pcp/e=C2=80=C2=80B' > but both of them error with "can't walk e=C2=80=C2=80B" > > NB the above where cut and paste so the runes are correct. I doubt that. C2 80 is UTF for 0x80, the error rune. When any of the UTF routines process a bad UTF sequence, they replace it with the error rune. So what's really happening, probably, is that kfs is giving you bad data (not UTF) and ls is coping. If you write a program to walk through the directory manually and call remove on the offending file, you should be fine. Just avoid all the utf routines (like print!). Of course, kfs might check that names you give it are okay UTF, but off the top of my head I don't think it does. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 00:16:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 00:16:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27470 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 00:16:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27463 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 00:16:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 00:16:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4478A19B7A; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:16:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 714C619BA4; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:16:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C67D19A07; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:15:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A5E819AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:15:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs un-removable file From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:15:31 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>If you write a program to walk through the directory manually >>and call remove on the offending file, you should be fine. >>Just avoid all the utf routines (like print!). be sure to call it `dsw' From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 01:00:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 01:00:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 29896 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 29892 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 01:00:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B22B19A7D; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7805919B8F; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:00:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1DBA199E0; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4AA97199E0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:59:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ff7aff7e446ebd1fe0a788c93d5d844@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs un-removable file From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:02:13 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I doubt that. C2 80 is UTF for 0x80, the error rune. > When any of the UTF routines process a bad UTF sequence, they > replace it with the error rune. So what's really happening, > probably, is that kfs is giving you bad data (not UTF) and > ls is coping. that's not necessarily the case. we've got some files on our filesystem (an old style fileserver) that have C2 80 sequences in them, and they seem to be unremovable. a direct stat on the files still gives the c2-80 sequences (as far as i can see convM2D doesn't do any utf conversions, so it shouldn't be necessary to look at the raw dir format) not only are the files non-removable, several of them have a few duplicates. after a little experimentation, it seems that the fileserver (and presumably kfs too) doesn't check utf consistency on input, but does convert utf chars on output (mind you, it's not obvious from a quick check in the source). in fact, in the example i just tried, i did similar to: char buf[] = "/tmp/yyXz"; buf[7] = 0xff; create(buf, OWRITE, 8r666); buf[7] = 0xfd; create(buf, OWRITE, 8r666); both creates succeeded, and i now have two unremovable files in my /tmp (oops). cat /tmp | xd -c shows that the filenames of each are identical (in this case they're each exactly "yy"). i'd suggest that perhaps it'd be a good idea for the fileserver to canonicalise names on creation as quite apart from invalid utf sequences, aren't there several possible utf sequences that can validly map to the same character? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 01:07:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 01:07:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30122 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30118 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 01:07:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADF2F19B1F; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA3E119BAA; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:07:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8434E19B1F; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 6062F19B69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 14973 invoked by uid 991); 27 Oct 2003 16:06:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20031027160618.14972.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs un-removable file In-reply-to: <3ff7aff7e446ebd1fe0a788c93d5d844@vitanuova.com> References: <3ff7aff7e446ebd1fe0a788c93d5d844@vitanuova.com> Comments: In-reply-to rog@vitanuova.com message dated "Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:02:13." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:06:18 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) | invalid utf sequences, aren't there several possible | utf sequences that can validly map to the same character? I think only the shortest such sequence is supposed to be allowed, so maybe calling it an error is better than canonicalizing. On the other hand, Tcl uses a multibyte encoding of \0 to handle embedded nuls. That seems like a useful hack. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 01:17:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 01:17:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30625 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 01:17:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30621 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 01:17:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 01:17:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFA4419B9F; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C64819BAA; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:17:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94D1619B69; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:16:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4940A19B0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9RGFlaJ018211 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:15:47 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9RGFZIp005887 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:15:43 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9RGFXCA028340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:15:33 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs un-removable file In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:15:32 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > >>If you write a program to walk through the directory manually > >>and call remove on the offending file, you should be fine. > >>Just avoid all the utf routines (like print!). > > be sure to call it `dsw' > I think I might build a USB interface to my old PDP 11/45 front panel. Then, I can have dsw read the switches. Oh, shucks, no inumbers! But FIDS are still 16 bits, right? no problem! ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 02:27:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 02:27:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1236 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 02:27:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1232 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 02:27:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 02:27:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6391919AC1; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:27:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E56519BAB; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:27:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FAAB19B8B; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9C2D19AC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:26:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <262dd4ce410b19a7196e70f5f0c066d1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bfqelfspdqqsjbovzisvyiejsk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:26:05 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bfqelfspdqqsjbovzisvyiejsk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anything that gave me a web browser would be good enough. --upas-bfqelfspdqqsjbovzisvyiejsk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 12:16:37 EDT 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Mon Oct 20 12:16:34 EDT 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38AED19BA3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F0BD19AF7; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:16:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDA5619BA6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larch (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE6A119AA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: steve-simon@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: [9fans] Re: we need help... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:15:17 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some thoughts: Re: Effective X11 implementation. Would an implementation of gtk be enough? This would give us mozilla/firebird and many other similar apps. Re: configure I had a quick go at getting configure to go, hacking the scripts a little. It looked quite promising though perhaps my example was easy (GNU indent). An alternative approach might be to use configure's config files (sic) to generate mkfiles directly. Just my =C2=A30.02 worth -Steve --upas-bfqelfspdqqsjbovzisvyiejsk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 09:28:58 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 09:28:58 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16605 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 09:28:54 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16594 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 09:28:53 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 09:28:53 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DC4219B10; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9285A19BC0; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:28:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 971BE19B10; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from galapagos.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0ED5719AE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18669 invoked by uid 991); 28 Oct 2003 00:26:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20031028002654.18668.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Scott Schwartz" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] libfmt port Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 27 Oct 2003 19:26:54 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I really wish the libfmt port should use Plan 9 conventions for 'u', and not unix ones. I wouldn't be using it in the first place if I cared about unix compatability, especially when using or porting Plan 9 code! For example, libdraw/stringwidth.c:43: fprint(2, "stringwidth: bad character set for rune 0x%.4ux in %s\n", rune, name); From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 09:42:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 09:42:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17377 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 09:42:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17373 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 09:42:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 09:42:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C07ED19BBE; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C8B219BC7; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC7E419BCD; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:41:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B75419AEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:41:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AEG9N-000FG9-Bm for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:47:49 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] libfmt port In-Reply-To: Your message of "27 Oct 2003 19:26:54 EST." <20031028002654.18668.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <58659.1067294868.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:47:48 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I really wish the libfmt port should use Plan 9 conventions for 'u', > and not unix ones. I wouldn't be using it in the first place if I cared > about unix compatability, especially when using or porting Plan 9 code! > > For example, > libdraw/stringwidth.c:43: fprint(2, "stringwidth: bad character set for > rune 0x%.4ux in %s\n", rune, name); I believe the original intent was to match all the Unix semantics so that Unix users could adopt it in their programs without needing to learn the slight differences. I still think that's an admirable goal. What you want is a one-line change in fmt.c -- I even marked the line for you. When I'm using libfmt as part of the Plan 9 porting environment, I make the change. Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 20:40:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 20:40:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 23373 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 20:40:56 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 23369 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 20:40:55 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 20:40:55 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D1F719BCF; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:40:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53D6C19B0B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:40:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BCEBE19B20; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 914A719A69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:39:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: <262dd4ce410b19a7196e70f5f0c066d1@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:40:57 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > anything that gave me a web browser would be good enough. btw. the tk/grail option is out, grail can render less than mothra From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 23:01:06 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 23:01:06 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28081 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 23:00:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28074 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 23:00:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 23:00:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A62A419AB8; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A014E19B20; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:00:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D038C19A9C; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA8FA19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcaJ007958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:39 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcSA022856 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:38 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcCA003534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:38 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:37 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > anything that gave me a web browser would be good enough. > > btw. the tk/grail option is out, grail can render less than mothra what was the reason for not just getting mothra up to speed? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Tue Oct 28 23:11:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Tue Oct 28 23:11:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 28344 invoked by uid 1020); 28 Oct 2003 23:11:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 28340 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2003 23:11:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Oct 2003 23:11:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB85119AAA; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:11:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5DBF19A84; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:11:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D49119A67; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C378419A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37c216034e7bb1a9750b8fb87c8ce7c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:04 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It was never really very great before and now is hopelessly out of date. Charon would be a better bet. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 00:38:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 00:38:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30549 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 00:38:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30545 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 00:38:45 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 00:38:45 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A79B119A8B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:38:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE2B419AB3; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:38:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 573D719A90; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35374199D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:37:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:38:59 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) there's not *that* much wrong with mothra. The aforementioned cookies, and I'd like to be able snarf text too. One thing I've often wanted to put together was a web browser that browsed the HTML but with live links I've not really looked at the mothra source despite being interested in doing so. m From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 01:06:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 01:06:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31221 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 01:06:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31217 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 01:06:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 01:06:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53ECA19A01; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29AA319A84; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:06:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30DF7199D9; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:05:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B217519A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:05:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-tipqfhvfybwspmxndyodszfblr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:08:47 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-tipqfhvfybwspmxndyodszfblr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at a technical level, mothra assumed that it could display HTML in (essentially) a single pass, because that was true for HTML of the time. two things happened: - tables were introduced, which demolished that assumption - graphics designers were introduced, which meant that just `displaying' HTML wasn't enough, it must be displayed `properly' which arguably can't be done well in one pass. there's an interaction between the two because some pages are big tables. i did some hackery to keep mothra going for a while, but its data structures weren't really up to the bigger tasks. not it's fault, i hasten to add, it was just that the one pass assumption which was true originally (and i suppose might have remained true in a different history) no longer held so the structures were now inappropriate. somewhat later javascript was introduced, and as that's now fairly common on some sites you might well like to visit, and that's even further away from old mothra. it gets harder and harder after that... --upas-tipqfhvfybwspmxndyodszfblr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@vitanuova.com id 1AEUOs-0001Zr-DP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:49:57 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1AEUOs-0001Zr-DP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:00:46 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21EC319BD9; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1A3219AB8; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:00:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D038C19A9C; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA8FA19A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcaJ007958 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:39 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcSA022856 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:38 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SDxcCA003534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:38 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:59:37 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > > anything that gave me a web browser would be good enough. > > btw. the tk/grail option is out, grail can render less than mothra what was the reason for not just getting mothra up to speed? ron --upas-tipqfhvfybwspmxndyodszfblr-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 01:16:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 01:16:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31402 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 01:16:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31397 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 01:16:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 01:16:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CDA719BCF; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D46B319AB2; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:16:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90DB2199FB; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB7219A2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SGFLaJ010159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:15:21 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SGFLSA021640 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:15:21 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9SGFLCA008243 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:15:21 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: <37c216034e7bb1a9750b8fb87c8ce7c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:15:20 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > It was never really very great before and now is hopelessly > out of date. Charon would be a better bet. what are the odds of getting charon then? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 01:27:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 01:27:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 31654 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 01:27:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 31650 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 01:27:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 01:27:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2DDE19BD0; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:27:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A58FC19AB2; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:27:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BBE419A90; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:26:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7A25199FB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:26:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <02cd9110dbdd6eca624f2b016eb91608@caldo.demon.co.uk> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: <37c216034e7bb1a9750b8fb87c8ce7c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uzpibkrqffsffthgyndtocpiqn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:25:34 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uzpibkrqffsffthgyndtocpiqn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit roger has been working on charon running in a Plan 9 window (ie, using Plan 9's /dev/draw directly). it seemed to work fine--unsurprisingly, since the models are currently the same--and once we've installed something suitable to replace the hack his script(s) relied on (that i removed yesterday), we'll parcel it up somehow so that anyone can use it. he hasn't come in today so i haven't been able to discuss possible replacements for the hack, but it shouldn't be too long. --upas-uzpibkrqffsffthgyndtocpiqn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1AEUZd-0001vH-Ak; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:06:14 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1AEUZd-0001vH-Ak for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:11:53 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB85119AAA; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:11:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5DBF19A84; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:11:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D49119A67; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C378419A02 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37c216034e7bb1a9750b8fb87c8ce7c9@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:10:04 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It was never really very great before and now is hopelessly out of date. Charon would be a better bet. --upas-uzpibkrqffsffthgyndtocpiqn-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 02:50:56 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 02:50:56 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1219 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 02:50:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1215 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 02:50:52 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 02:50:52 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8FD719A97; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:50:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4D5D19AC9; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:50:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 644A519A05; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C005219A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9SIwen24324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62856.135.214.42.162.1067367520.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <02cd9110dbdd6eca624f2b016eb91608@caldo.demon.co.uk> References: <02cd9110dbdd6eca624f2b016eb91608@caldo.demon.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > roger has been working on charon running in a Plan 9 > window (ie, using Plan 9's /dev/draw directly). > it seemed to work fine--unsurprisingly, since the > models are currently the same--and once we've installed something > suitable to replace the hack his script(s) relied on (that i removed > yesterday), we'll parcel it up somehow so that anyone can use it. > he hasn't come in today so i haven't been able to discuss > possible replacements for the hack, but it shouldn't be too long. i am not able to understand. how is it any different from charon running on inferno? if it is the same, why are we doing it like this? and is it that this will leave us two versions of charon? thanks dharani From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 03:35:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 03:35:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3010 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 03:35:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3006 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 03:35:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 03:35:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D2B719ACD; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A28471999B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8B701999B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9435E199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIY0pK006538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SIY0nM022392 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] T23 vga Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My new T23 arrived. I installed plan9 without problems and then pulled the latest sources. Now I am trying to get a decent screen resolution. I put a menu in plan9.ini to allow me to choose from 1) vgasize=640x480x8: This works, of course, but is annoying. 2) vgasize=800x600x8: This has a weird speckled appearance, but it is tolerable for about 5 minutes. 3) vgasize=1024x768x8: This causes the screen to behave very strangely. Nothing is legible. all of these are with monitor=xga. I assume the rest of plan9.ini is not relevant. I can post the rest if anyone cares. /lib/vgadb is whatever was on sources. I didn't change anything. Does anyone with a T23 have any suggestions? Thanks, John -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 03:40:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 03:40:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 3228 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 03:40:52 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 3224 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 03:40:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 03:40:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DFE319BC4; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:40:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A2FF19BBC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:40:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5DC0199FD; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E67619BBC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:39:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] T23 vga In-Reply-To: <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ogamndpizshaezqgebiuvnhoax" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:39:05 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ogamndpizshaezqgebiuvnhoax Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AFAIK, you have a t23 monitor declared in the db. You can use that instead of xga. vgasize of 1024x768x8 should work, perhaps bigger if your laptop supports that. hth --upas-ogamndpizshaezqgebiuvnhoax Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Oct 28 19:35:40 MET 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C82419BD4; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A28471999B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8B701999B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9435E199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIY0pK006538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SIY0nM022392 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] T23 vga Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My new T23 arrived. I installed plan9 without problems and then pulled the latest sources. Now I am trying to get a decent screen resolution. I put a menu in plan9.ini to allow me to choose from 1) vgasize=640x480x8: This works, of course, but is annoying. 2) vgasize=800x600x8: This has a weird speckled appearance, but it is tolerable for about 5 minutes. 3) vgasize=1024x768x8: This causes the screen to behave very strangely. Nothing is legible. all of these are with monitor=xga. I assume the rest of plan9.ini is not relevant. I can post the rest if anyone cares. /lib/vgadb is whatever was on sources. I didn't change anything. Does anyone with a T23 have any suggestions? Thanks, John -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 --upas-ogamndpizshaezqgebiuvnhoax-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 04:22:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 04:22:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4600 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 04:22:49 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4596 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 04:22:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 04:22:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77E1419BD7; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DC53199D8; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:22:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C238199BB; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:21:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (24-6-207.wireless.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.6.207]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89BDE19BBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:21:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AEXci-00036V-0j for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:16 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] T23 vga In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 EST." <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <11933.1067362036.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:27:16 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) try using monitor=t23, and also use 1024x768x16. it looks much better. (of course if your screen is 1400x1050 use 1400x1050x16, but i'm assuming you'd have mentioned that.) From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 05:52:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 05:52:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7818 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 05:52:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7814 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 05:52:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 05:52:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0FA519A01; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D07F19BE5; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:52:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B79D519BE5; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:51:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2A4819BDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:51:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <28e932c0976b7937d4870192f66f3779@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <62856.135.214.42.162.1067367520.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kagsrgrifadlawpsnxqmipdmyk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:43:22 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kagsrgrifadlawpsnxqmipdmyk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's the same version of charon, but emu and its applications can disguise themselves better. --upas-kagsrgrifadlawpsnxqmipdmyk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk id 1AEXzY-0001qf-AW; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:49:40 +0000 Received: from [130.203.4.6] (helo=mail.cse.psu.edu) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1AEXzY-0001qf-AW for forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:52 +0000 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8FD719A97; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:50:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4D5D19AC9; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:50:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 644A519A05; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C005219A9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9SIwen24324 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 Received: from 135.214.42.162 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62856.135.214.42.162.1067367520.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we need help... From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <02cd9110dbdd6eca624f2b016eb91608@caldo.demon.co.uk> References: <02cd9110dbdd6eca624f2b016eb91608@caldo.demon.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:58:40 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_MIMEOLE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,X_NJABL_OPEN_PROXY version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > roger has been working on charon running in a Plan 9 > window (ie, using Plan 9's /dev/draw directly). > it seemed to work fine--unsurprisingly, since the > models are currently the same--and once we've installed something > suitable to replace the hack his script(s) relied on (that i removed > yesterday), we'll parcel it up somehow so that anyone can use it. > he hasn't come in today so i haven't been able to discuss > possible replacements for the hack, but it shouldn't be too long. i am not able to understand. how is it any different from charon running = on inferno? if it is the same, why are we doing it like this? and is it that this will leave us two versions of charon? thanks dharani --upas-kagsrgrifadlawpsnxqmipdmyk-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 06:13:13 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 06:13:13 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 8675 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 06:12:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 8631 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 06:12:48 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 06:12:48 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C3E319BE3; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:12:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 997D719BE9; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:12:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9AC119BE2; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E78DA19AD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SLAvpK028294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:10:57 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SLAvnM006169 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:10:57 -0500 Message-Id: <200310282110.h9SLAvnM006169@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] T23 vga Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:10:57 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Thanks, monitor=t23 and vgasize=1024x768x16 works fine. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 14:23:08 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 14:23:08 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1922 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 14:22:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1909 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 14:22:51 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 14:22:51 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80B4C19C08; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD6F919C0B; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:22:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69C4E19BF6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 428DD19A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LOaJ031960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:24 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LNSA006146 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:24 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LNCA004878 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:23 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] flchk problem: now what? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:22 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is there some recommended thing to do when I see this: term% fossil/flchk /dev/sdC0/fossil chkEpoch 510 cacheLocalData: addr=11995 type got 16 exp 8: tag got 0 exp 16b1a0cd flchk 210: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001a119 what's a reasonable next step? ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 14:56:54 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 14:56:54 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4638 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 14:56:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4631 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 14:56:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 14:56:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90E4619C0B; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:56:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 670B219C0F; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:56:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9353F19AD1; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B75E19C0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5tXaJ000609 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:55:33 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5tWSA010181 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:55:32 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5tUCA005709 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:55:30 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] fossil lockups: anyone seen this? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:55:29 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I can't 'mk CONF=pccpu' without fossil locking up in vmware. No real symptoms to speak of, just a lockup. Vmware does go into "halt and catch fire" mode, eating 99% of cpu. thanks ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 15:44:40 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 15:44:40 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 7792 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 15:44:39 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 7788 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 15:44:38 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 15:44:38 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B84D819C0B; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F2C019C0A; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:44:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E06991998C; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE83D199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:42:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T6graJ001800 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:42:53 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T6gq9J018597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:42:52 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T6gqCA006929 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:42:52 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:42:52 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) I'm working to get plan 9 to load directly from linuxbios. The first problem I've hit is that Plan 9 assumes that the gdt table is set up by 9load in a friendly fashion. Because linuxbios has to accomodate so many different OSes with directly conflicting GDT setups, it's not really practical to try to make linuxbios have a plan 9 friendly gdt. I'd like to have plan 9 just set up its own gdt correctly. I'm trying to get this to work but am still at the 'system wedges up' stage. here is my (doubtless incorrect) code. Can somebody remind me what the MSW is. Also what is a reasonable way to do this: $PADDR($tgdtptr(SB)) or is that impossible? TEXT _start0x00100020(SB),$0 CLI /* make sure interrupts are off */ /* for linuxbios. */ /* now set up the gdt so we have sane plan 9 style gdts. */ MOVL $tgdtptr(SB), AX ANDL $~KZERO, AX MOVL (AX), GDTR /* MOVL $tgdtptr(SB),GDTR /**/ MOVW $1, AX MOVW AX,MSW /* * clear prefetch queue (weird code to avoid optimizations) */ DELAY /* * set all segs */ MOVW $(1<<3),AX /**/ MOVW AX,DS MOVW AX,SS MOVW AX,ES MOVW AX,FS MOVW AX,GS /* JMP $(2<<3):$mode32bit(SB) /**/ BYTE $0xEA LONG $mode32bit-KZERO(SB) WORD $(2<<3) TEXT mode32bit(SB),$0 /* end linuxbios stuff */ MOVL $PADDR(CPU0PDB), DI /* clear 4 pages for the tables etc. */ XORL AX, AX MOVL $(4*BY2PG), CX SHRL $2, CX etc. etc. The GDT is this: /* for linuxbios mods. * /* * gdt to get us to 32-bit/segmented/unpaged mode */ TEXT tgdt(SB),$0 /* null descriptor */ LONG $0 LONG $0 /* data segment descriptor for 4 gigabytes (PL 0) */ LONG $(0xFFFF) LONG $(SEGG|SEGB|(0xF<<16)|SEGP|SEGPL(0)|SEGDATA|SEGW) /* exec segment descriptor for 4 gigabytes (PL 0) */ LONG $(0xFFFF) LONG $(SEGG|SEGD|(0xF<<16)|SEGP|SEGPL(0)|SEGEXEC|SEGR) /* * pointer to initial gdt */ TEXT tgdtptr(SB),$0 WORD $(3*8) LONG $tgdt-KZERO(SB) I suspect the tgdtptr is bogus ... probably an 0x8000xxxx address. Any hints welcome. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 16:44:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 16:44:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11704 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 16:44:51 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11696 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 16:44:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 16:44:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 048A419AF8; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4ADE819C0C; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:44:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94CFC19AF8; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BA6419BDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:43:01 -0500 (EST) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id h9T7jEbV031915 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:45:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C96@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios Thread-Index: AcOd6Co+aKLyzNrFQIGeysOlIKG2uAABybYw From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:42:58 +0200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >stage. here is my (doubtless incorrect) code. Can somebody=20 >remind me what=20 >the MSW is. MSW is the low 16 bits of CR0. Writing 1 into it sets the PE bit (i.e. switches to protected mode). Tiit From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 17:20:57 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 17:20:57 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 13745 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 17:20:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 13739 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 17:20:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 17:20:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A56919AF8; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:20:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 363A619C15; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:20:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A47019BD7; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:19:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.home.cs.york.ac.uk (public1-york1-5-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C58A19B06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:19:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8c06d2c68998f806c7a0cb8b7fdcd2f9@caldo.demon.co.uk> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:08:48 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>Also what is a reasonable way to do this: >> $PADDR($tgdtptr(SB)) >>or is that impossible? that's impossible. masking it off as you do is fine. >>I suspect the tgdtptr is bogus ... probably an 0x8000xxxx address. i'd expect so, although nm on the executable will show you. the deeper problem is that (as i understand it) you're entering the code in real mode, which is of course quite unreal. in that case you'll need to do what 9load does in l.s (using x16.h) to write the real mode code, because 8a/8l isn't very good at 16-bit code (though 8l could make it easier, with some as yet unquantified amount of work). i'd put it what's needed a separate l16.s prefix, using x16.h to write it (most of what you need is at the start of 9load's l.s), then link l16.$O in front of a slightly modified l.$O and enter the kernel at l16.$O's start. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Wed Oct 29 18:35:51 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Wed Oct 29 18:35:51 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17906 invoked by uid 1020); 29 Oct 2003 18:35:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17901 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 18:35:50 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 18:35:50 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BAE719BA7; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.8.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A7B619C10; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:35:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 787E619B23; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2672619A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 04:34:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <866de2c3235baa42d0b2d4d78f1db1ba@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: <8c06d2c68998f806c7a0cb8b7fdcd2f9@caldo.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:37:51 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>i'd put it what's needed a separate l16.s prefix, using x16.h i meant: i'd put what's needed in ... From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 00:46:53 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 00:46:53 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 424 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 00:46:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 419 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 00:46:49 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 00:46:49 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9ED6819A1E; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:46:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C00B919C23; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:46:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC79119C1B; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:45:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from t40.swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A6FF19C0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=t40.swtch.com) by t40.swtch.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AEqjV-0005yY-5S for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:51:33 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil lockups: anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:55:29 MST." From: "Russ Cox" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <22972.1067435487.1@t40.swtch.com> Message-Id: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:51:27 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I can't 'mk CONF=pccpu' without fossil locking up in vmware. No real > symptoms to speak of, just a lockup. Vmware does go into "halt and catch > fire" mode, eating 99% of cpu. And you think this is Plan 9's fault because? Seriously, can you do ^t ^t p? Does it show fossil using lots of CPU? Maybe it really is a VMware bug. If you're running VMware 4, I would not be surprised. They were a lot more interested in features than robustness. Also if you're running on top of Linux, since then you've got that problem twice. :-( Russ From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:13:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:13:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1180 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:13:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1176 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:13:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:13:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC91619C24; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:13:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E5AE19C26; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:13:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9ADA19C21; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:12:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A68419C29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:12:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGC7aJ030396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGC7SA026659 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGC7CA022084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479C96@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Tiit Lankots wrote: > >stage. here is my (doubtless incorrect) code. Can somebody > >remind me what > >the MSW is. > > MSW is the low 16 bits of CR0. Writing 1 into it sets the PE bit > (i.e. switches to protected mode). Thanks, I found that last night too, this is good to have confirmation. I clearly don't need this from linuxbios, as it's already in protected mode, but I see no harm in leaving it in. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:17:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:17:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1350 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:17:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1346 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:17:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:17:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E328319C29; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0DAB19C28; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:17:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B97119C21; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DAE8A19C26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGGfaJ031428 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:16:41 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGGdSA028785 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:16:41 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGGdCA022314 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:16:39 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: <8c06d2c68998f806c7a0cb8b7fdcd2f9@caldo.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:16:38 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote: > the deeper problem is that (as i understand it) you're entering the code > in real mode, which is of course quite unreal. in that case you'll need > to do what 9load does in l.s (using x16.h) to write the real mode code, > because 8a/8l isn't very good at 16-bit code (though 8l could make it > easier, with some as yet unquantified amount of work). Entering from linuxbios and also from 9load, you are entering plan 9 in 32-bit protected mode with the gdt set up. The issue from linuxbios is that the gdt is not Plan9-compatible. I think it is probably good hygiene for plan 9 to be able to operate under other loaders than 9load, so overall it is probably good for Plan 9 to assume - machine is in protected mode (but no paging turned on) - gdt is maybe right, but maybe wrong - lgdt can be used in 32-bit mode - plan 9 should reload the gdt in l.s, 32-bit instructions, before it sets up paging ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:27:36 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:27:36 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1676 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:27:35 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1672 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:27:35 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:27:35 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4355A19C24; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:27:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF94E199BF; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:27:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0956419C26; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:27:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28B5E19C24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGQgaJ004121 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:26:42 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGQgSA001242 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:26:42 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGQgCA022773 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:26:42 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil lockups: anyone seen this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:26:41 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Russ Cox wrote: > And you think this is Plan 9's fault because? I don't think it's anything, actually. I'm not sure what's up but it is always useful to see if anyone else has similar experiences. > Seriously, can you do ^t ^t p? Does it show fossil > using lots of CPU? Maybe it really is a VMware bug. wouldn't surprise me. I'll try that. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:40:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:40:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2024 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:40:42 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2020 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:40:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:40:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCC0319C3E; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3B9119C35; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF3EB19C29; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1165D199BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <82b2a050f82c852b82a6a50c133f23bd@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:12 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It's good hygeine but you have to assume something. Assuming 32 bit mode is already way too much, we're in 16 bit mode when entered from the normal BIOS. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:47:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:47:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2227 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:47:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2223 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:47:44 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:47:44 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35AD019C2E; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77BD419C35; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:47:21 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EEB29199BF; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:46:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F036619C23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGkOaJ010562 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:24 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGkOIp004520 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:24 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGkOCA023597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:24 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: <82b2a050f82c852b82a6a50c133f23bd@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:46:23 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > It's good hygeine but you have to assume something. Assuming 32 bit mode > is already way too much, we're in 16 bit mode when entered from the normal > BIOS. in plan 9? I know that's the way it is in 9load, but in plan 9 it looks to me like it assume that 9load enters plan 9 in protected mode. 9load sets up protected mode as far as i can see. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 01:55:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 01:55:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 2450 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 01:55:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 2446 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 01:55:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 01:55:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 096FF19C3C; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DECC19C3F; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:55:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F001F199BF; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1CFA19C32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGsCaJ012644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:54:12 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGsB9J016884 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:54:12 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TGsBCA023859 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:54:11 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:54:11 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, ron minnich wrote: > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > > > It's good hygeine but you have to assume something. Assuming 32 bit mode > > is already way too much, we're in 16 bit mode when entered from the normal > > BIOS. > > in plan 9? I know that's the way it is in 9load, but in plan 9 it looks to > me like it assume that 9load enters plan 9 in protected mode. 9load sets > up protected mode as far as i can see. foolish me, I misunderstand. Dave, you're taking this further than I thought about. I'm always ignoring those commercial BIOSen with their penchant of entering your code in 16-bit mode, possibly I'm blocking out bad memories. To start, I'm going to go with the protected-mode assumption as I want to get the EPIA boards booting Plan 9 direct from flash. Then, later, we can get into the lovely 16-bit issue. The problem there is Plan 9 loads at 0x100000 and that's a pain to deal with in 16-bit mode. We're going to need a little hook in the low 640K to set those things up. It starts to suck at that point. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 05:55:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 05:55:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 10693 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 05:55:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 10689 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 05:55:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 05:55:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74F7B19BDE; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BBB319BB0; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:55:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8013619AD6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9F6519A12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:54:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:58:25 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >>that the gdt is not Plan9-compatible. I think it is probably good hygiene what is incompatible about the gdt? to what is it initialised? From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 08:19:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 08:19:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 15200 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 08:19:46 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 15196 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 08:19:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 08:19:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7018219B1E; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:19:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.23.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CB4F19B4D; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:19:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1299319AD8; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0696119A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TNHjaJ017889 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:45 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TNHi9J031288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:44 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9TNHiCA006863 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:44 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] loading plan 9 directly from linuxbios In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:17:44 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, C H Forsyth wrote: > >>that the gdt is not Plan9-compatible. I think it is probably good hygiene > > what is incompatible about the gdt? > to what is it initialised? linuxbios follows the linux gdt setup. offset 10 is code, offset 18 is data. ds, es, etc. are set to 18, cs is set to 10. Plan 9 sets GDT SEL 8 to data; and ds, etc. need to be set to 8. Currently I am exploding in Plan 9 after linuxbios loads it and I am almost certain it is due to this incompatibility. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 09:08:49 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 09:08:49 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 17040 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 09:08:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 17035 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 09:08:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 09:08:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7013819AD8; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCCA419A82; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:08:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BCD519B4D; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 632E719AD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9U06vaJ028464 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:06:57 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9U06vSA020132 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:06:57 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9U06uCA008834 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:06:56 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] GDT reload in l.s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:06:56 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It is 32-bit code and it is working. I've dumped the gdt in main() and it's the one I have set up. It gets changed pretty quickly, of course, as the kernel comes up and puts in an "official" gdt, but it supports the kernel until the kernel gets the "official" gdt in place. Just to make sure I'm going to dump ds, es, etc. and make sure they're OK too, but it looks good so far. I wonder if it would be OK to accept these simple changes given that they cover the case of entering the kernel in 32-bit mode with a need to make sure the GDT is sane, as may happen from any number of open-source BIOSes. These changes don't help if you are in 16-bit mode, but you can't actually start executing at 0x100020 in 16-bit mode anyway, so really supporting that will require some serious work. These changes don't negatively affect a goal to support a 16-bit entry point into the kernel in the future, and they help support 32-bit entry from non-9load systems now. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 09:49:41 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 09:49:41 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 19134 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 09:49:41 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 19130 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 09:49:40 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 09:49:40 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1344319AB7; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D63319C19; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:49:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45D4519A19; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:48:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE8B019AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:48:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] GDT reload in l.s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:48:28 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) fine by me, send them From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 21:50:50 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 21:50:50 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26528 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 21:50:48 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26524 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 21:50:47 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 21:50:47 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3DF5519B12; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:50:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CD3719C31; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:50:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC1CA19B72; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:49:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08D9B19AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:48:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2d544554dc53dc7025c7a7beae06c4f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] T23 vga In-Reply-To: <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yyzqwfnsuhejoqglifubktswch" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:48:51 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yyzqwfnsuhejoqglifubktswch Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what is the actual size of your screen in pixels? Mine is really 1024x768x8. Sounds like yours might be a 1440 width screen. --upas-yyzqwfnsuhejoqglifubktswch Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Oct 28 13:35:56 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Tue Oct 28 13:35:53 EST 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03BDC19BC4; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 862B619AEE; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:35:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8B701999B; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9435E199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.16]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9SIY0pK006538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Received: from math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SIY0nM022392 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200310281834.h9SIY0nM022392@math.Princeton.EDU> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: John Stalker Subject: [9fans] T23 vga Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:34:00 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) My new T23 arrived. I installed plan9 without problems and then pulled the latest sources. Now I am trying to get a decent screen resolution. I put a menu in plan9.ini to allow me to choose from 1) vgasize=640x480x8: This works, of course, but is annoying. 2) vgasize=800x600x8: This has a weird speckled appearance, but it is tolerable for about 5 minutes. 3) vgasize=1024x768x8: This causes the screen to behave very strangely. Nothing is legible. all of these are with monitor=xga. I assume the rest of plan9.ini is not relevant. I can post the rest if anyone cares. /lib/vgadb is whatever was on sources. I didn't change anything. Does anyone with a T23 have any suggestions? Thanks, John -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 --upas-yyzqwfnsuhejoqglifubktswch-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 21:59:42 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 21:59:42 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 26779 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 21:59:40 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 26775 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 21:59:39 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 21:59:39 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9471719AC2; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55E9919AB7; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:59:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 467D719BBE; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D86919AA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:58:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <54c93c5fc24eb5b3c229b8589be3466c@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] flchk problem: now what? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ssftruiwulvkfbgujkeyzbyorz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:58:03 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ssftruiwulvkfbgujkeyzbyorz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you just did. Are you bleeding edge or normal distribution? --upas-ssftruiwulvkfbgujkeyzbyorz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Wed Oct 29 00:22:49 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Wed Oct 29 00:22:46 EST 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A56B19C09; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.30.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92DDF19C08; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:22:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69C4E19BF6; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 428DD19A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LOaJ031960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:24 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LNSA006146 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:24 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9T5LNCA004878 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:23 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] flchk problem: now what? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:21:22 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is there some recommended thing to do when I see this: term% fossil/flchk /dev/sdC0/fossil chkEpoch 510 cacheLocalData: addr=11995 type got 16 exp 8: tag got 0 exp 16b1a0cd flchk 210: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x0001a119 what's a reasonable next step? ron --upas-ssftruiwulvkfbgujkeyzbyorz-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Thu Oct 30 22:04:47 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Thu Oct 30 22:04:47 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 27032 invoked by uid 1020); 30 Oct 2003 22:04:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 27018 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2003 22:04:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 30 Oct 2003 22:04:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B33E19C2E; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.76.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F07B619C3B; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:04:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2316519C2E; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:03:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A40D19AB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:03:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58d1cd0bc03e01c8be73f9d4c94f50e8@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] T23 vga From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, stalker@Math.Princeton.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:03:20 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) By the way, I use monitor=t23 rather than monitor=xga. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 00:07:45 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 00:07:45 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 30436 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 00:07:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 30431 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 00:07:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 00:07:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6036D19AD9; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.16.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 673D419C2E; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:07:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A079919B12; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A851719AD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9UF5vaJ024317 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:05:58 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9UF5v9J018262 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:05:57 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id h9UF5vCA031630 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:05:57 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] flchk problem: now what? In-Reply-To: <54c93c5fc24eb5b3c229b8589be3466c@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:05:56 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Presotto wrote: > Are you bleeding edge or normal distribution? the flchk suicide was on bleeding edge. ron From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 01:38:43 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 01:38:43 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 1334 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 01:38:43 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 1330 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 01:38:42 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 01:38:42 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C114619B55; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DBFF19C2E; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:38:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA69F19B37; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:37:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (mail.math.Princeton.EDU [128.112.18.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E38B419AFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:37:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (fine1008.math.princeton.edu [128.112.16.123]) by Mail.Math.Princeton.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9UGbapK013594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:37:36 -0500 Received: from fine1008.math.Princeton.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9UGbaoY004772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:37:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200310301637.h9UGbaoY004772@localhost.localdomain> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] T23 vga In-reply-to: <2d544554dc53dc7025c7a7beae06c4f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> References: <2d544554dc53dc7025c7a7beae06c4f1@plan9.bell-labs.com> Comments: In-reply-to David Presotto message dated "Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:48:51 -0500." From: John Stalker Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:37:36 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > what is the actual size of your screen in pixels? Mine is really 1024x768x8. Sounds like > yours might be a 1440 width screen. The specs from the reseller were 1280x1024, but they may not really know. I haven't tried anything above 1024x768 on any operating system, though. Amusingly Windows2000--since I was forced to pay for it I thought I might as well keep it--is currently only working at 800x600x8. XFree86 does 1024x768x24 without complaints, since I edited the bizarre XF86Config that xf86cfg gave me. -- John Stalker Department of Mathematics Princeton University (609)258-6469 From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 03:36:46 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 03:36:46 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 4886 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 03:36:45 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 4874 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 03:36:43 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 03:36:43 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92B2D19B37; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B21119B55; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 533CF19B29; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 374EC19B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: cross@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:12 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It was just pointed out to me. I haven't tried to track it down. - Dan C. brahma% cd /sys/src/cmd/rio brahma% mk 8c -FVw rio.c 8c -FVw data.c 8c -FVw fsys.c 8c -FVw scrl.c 8c -FVw time.c 8c -FVw util.c 8c -FVw wctl.c 8c -FVw wind.c 8c -FVw xfid.c 8l -o 8.out rio.8 data.8 fsys.8 scrl.8 time.8 util.8 wctl.8 wind.8 xfid.8 /386/lib/libdraw.a /386/lib/libframe.a /386/lib/libthread.a /386/lib/libplumb.a /386/lib/libc.a stat: _tos: not defined mk: 8l -o ... : exit status=rc 75566: 8l 75568: error brahma% mk clean rm -f *.[v4586xq7] [v4586xq7].out y.tab.? y.debug y.output rio brahma% fspull post... c sys/games/lib/fortunes brahma% lc dat.h data.c fns.h fsys.c mkfile rio.c scrl.c time.c util.c wctl.c wind.c xfid.c brahma% grep tos *.c xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: recv(mrm.cm, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: chantostr(cbuf, screen->chan), xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ brahma% grep tos *.h brahma% From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 03:49:00 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 03:49:00 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5145 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 03:48:59 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5141 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 03:48:59 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 03:48:59 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1153919A7B; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29F0E19B55; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:48:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EE8A19B5C; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D07519B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65c5990d2b10f760540e837fe4d4c436@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:17 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arggh! We're getting too out of date twixt our system and martha. I'll try to bring everything together this weekend. FOr now, I've updated /sys/src/libc/386 with a new argv0.s and /386/lib/libc.a that should fix this problem. --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Oct 30 13:36:42 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Oct 30 13:36:40 EST 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDB9419B00; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7999619B37; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 533CF19B29; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 374EC19B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: cross@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:12 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It was just pointed out to me. I haven't tried to track it down. - Dan C. brahma% cd /sys/src/cmd/rio brahma% mk 8c -FVw rio.c 8c -FVw data.c 8c -FVw fsys.c 8c -FVw scrl.c 8c -FVw time.c 8c -FVw util.c 8c -FVw wctl.c 8c -FVw wind.c 8c -FVw xfid.c 8l -o 8.out rio.8 data.8 fsys.8 scrl.8 time.8 util.8 wctl.8 wind.8 xfid.8 /386/lib/libdraw.a /386/lib/libframe.a /386/lib/libthread.a /386/lib/libplumb.a /386/lib/libc.a stat: _tos: not defined mk: 8l -o ... : exit status=rc 75566: 8l 75568: error brahma% mk clean rm -f *.[v4586xq7] [v4586xq7].out y.tab.? y.debug y.output rio brahma% fspull post... c sys/games/lib/fortunes brahma% lc dat.h data.c fns.h fsys.c mkfile rio.c scrl.c time.c util.c wctl.c wind.c xfid.c brahma% grep tos *.c xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: recv(mrm.cm, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: chantostr(cbuf, screen->chan), xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ brahma% grep tos *.h brahma% --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 03:56:48 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 03:56:48 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 5497 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 03:56:47 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 5493 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 03:56:46 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 03:56:46 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2178F19A7A; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:56:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1097419A86; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:56:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3BBB19A86; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18015199D2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:54:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21199 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h9UIsrl14711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:54:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310301854.h9UIsrl14711@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:17 EST." <65c5990d2b10f760540e837fe4d4c436@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:54:53 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) David Presotto writes: > Arggh! Aughh! > We're getting too out of date twixt our system and martha. I'll try to > bring everything together this weekend. FOr now, I've updated /sys/src/libc/386 > with a new argv0.s and /386/lib/libc.a that should fix this problem. Okay, thanks.... - Dan C. From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 17:22:05 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 17:22:05 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 11341 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 17:21:58 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 11336 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 17:21:57 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 17:21:57 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67D9519B53; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:21:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3850D19B77; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:21:28 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36DE219B72; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E89919AFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:19:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3f02bf253833235669a201d0d61ad9c7@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <65c5990d2b10f760540e837fe4d4c436@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-glazgowvoffjijozghsnjmzgjd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:19:54 +0100 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-glazgowvoffjijozghsnjmzgjd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to be sure we don't have mail problems. Time ago I sent a mail to 9fans saying that using libthread would fail to compile because of _tos. I said also that simply recompiling libthread made the problem go away. Did others see that message? thanks a lot. Our network is a nightmare. --upas-glazgowvoffjijozghsnjmzgjd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Thu Oct 30 19:48:55 MET 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33C5319A40; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:48:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29F0E19B55; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:48:18 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EE8A19B5C; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D07519B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <65c5990d2b10f760540e837fe4d4c436@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: David Presotto To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:47:17 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arggh! We're getting too out of date twixt our system and martha. I'll try to bring everything together this weekend. FOr now, I've updated /sys/src/libc/386 with a new argv0.s and /386/lib/libc.a that should fix this problem. --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Oct 30 13:36:42 EST 2003 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by plan9; Thu Oct 30 13:36:40 EST 2003 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DDB9419B00; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.18.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7999619B37; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 533CF19B29; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from brahma.sdgm.net (brahma.sdgm.net [64.32.179.49]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 374EC19B36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: cross@sdgm.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Has anyone seen this before? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:35:12 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) It was just pointed out to me. I haven't tried to track it down. - Dan C. brahma% cd /sys/src/cmd/rio brahma% mk 8c -FVw rio.c 8c -FVw data.c 8c -FVw fsys.c 8c -FVw scrl.c 8c -FVw time.c 8c -FVw util.c 8c -FVw wctl.c 8c -FVw wind.c 8c -FVw xfid.c 8l -o 8.out rio.8 data.8 fsys.8 scrl.8 time.8 util.8 wctl.8 wind.8 xfid.8 /386/lib/libdraw.a /386/lib/libframe.a /386/lib/libthread.a /386/lib/libplumb.a /386/lib/libc.a stat: _tos: not defined mk: 8l -o ... : exit status=rc 75566: 8l 75568: error brahma% mk clean rm -f *.[v4586xq7] [v4586xq7].out y.tab.? y.debug y.output rio brahma% fspull post... c sys/games/lib/fortunes brahma% lc dat.h data.c fns.h fsys.c mkfile rio.c scrl.c time.c util.c wctl.c wind.c xfid.c brahma% grep tos *.c xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: recv(mrm.cm, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ xfid.c: chantostr(cbuf, screen->chan), xfid.c: recv(c2, nil); /* wake up window and toss data */ brahma% grep tos *.h brahma% --upas-bjmqoztofcttpbcylgvawhgpqc-- --upas-glazgowvoffjijozghsnjmzgjd-- From cse.psu.edu!9fans-admin Fri Oct 31 19:23:52 JST 2003 remote from ar Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.3]) by ar; Fri Oct 31 19:23:52 JST 2003 Received: (qmail 16618 invoked by uid 1020); 31 Oct 2003 19:23:50 +0900 Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: (qmail 16607 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 19:23:41 +0900 Received: from niscan1.aichi-u.ac.jp (HELO mail.cse.psu.edu) (202.16.124.100) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 19:23:41 +0900 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E7A119B45; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:23:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.6.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B9B919B54; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:23:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C46819B45; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FB5D19B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:22:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <13ab91b7d3a360a0ca444540bc498ba7@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: C H Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] fun with rfork Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:25:58 0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_DATE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) here is part of an application of rfork(RFMEM|RFPROC ...). most irrelevant code has been removed. libinit was called early on before the process switched to a stack on the malloc heap, and that's where it is running when it calls oscmd. what happens next? -------- void libinit(char *imod) { ... int fd, n, pid; ... /* * guess at a safe stack for vstack */ ustack = (ulong)&fd; ... /* switch to stack on the heap ... */ tramp(sp+KSTACK, up->func, up->arg); } typedef struct Targ Targ; struct Targ { int fd; int* spin; char* cmd; }; void exectramp(Targ *targ) { *targ->spin = 0; ... exec(argv[0], argv); exits(""); } int oscmd(char *cmd, int *rfd, int *sfd) { Targ targ; int spin, *spinptr, fd[2]; if(pipe(fd) < 0) return -1; spinptr = &spin; spin = 1; targ.fd = fd[0]; targ.cmd = cmd; targ.spin = spinptr; switch(rfork(RFMEM|RFPROC|RFFDG|RFENVG|RFREND)) { case -1: return -1; case 0: vstack(&targ); /* Never returns */ default: while(*spinptr) ; break; } close(fd[0]); *rfd = fd[1]; *sfd = fd[1]; return 0; } TEXT vstack(SB),$0 MOVL arg+0(FP), AX MOVL ustack(SB), SP PUSHL AX CALL exectramp(SB) POPL AX /* dammit ken! */ RET