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Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:38:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8413442CB for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 00:38:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8650a8d6_8329_11d8_83a6_00304828b574_9331; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:38:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7380419ED7; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:38:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9132E19E83; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:38:33 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9613119CE5; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E0D4519C00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 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Thu Apr 1 06:42:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5d0b8eb8_835c_11d8_9c4a_00304828b574_21708; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 06:42:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAE5344603 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:42:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5cd4f47a_835c_11d8_9b45_00304828b574_21705; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 06:42:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5F01E7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:42:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1535A7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:42:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c93baf0_835c_11d8_9ad9_00304828b574_21702; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 06:42:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26512344603 for ; 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charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] London Hostels Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:43:45 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I never thought I would be spamming 9fans with one of my websites but : http://www.hostel-search.com/hostels_in/england/london/ You can search for available beds and book online, prices from 7.98 per night for a dorm, private rooms from 15 per night plenty to choose from m From plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 07:05:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ff023b8_835f_11d8_8b87_00304828b574_25488; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C07345322 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8fbf9fea_835f_11d8_833b_00304828b574_25485; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4AF797580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:05:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013BF7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f7f007a_835f_11d8_824d_00304828b574_25482; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFBB345322 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ed0fce6_835f_11d8_8428_00304828b574_25478; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D323319F07; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7956919EF9; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:05:30 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D78219C82; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:04:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from paris.snellwlcox.com (cpc2-sout4-6-0-cust223.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.111.117.223]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC25F19C89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <961870212c6527689764090ad7c6d6b4@snellwilcox.com> From: plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] authentication failed... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:04:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, To recap, I am trying to install a single Auth/CPU/Fossil/Venti/secstore server. When I boot the machine loads ther kernel, secstore seems OK, but when I enter my username and password I get an error and the kernel panics. I re-checked everything and now when I boot I get a different error message, though I admit I have seen this one before during my many attempts: authentication failed (auth_proxy write fd: uname: uid 'write' not found), trying anyway. I can see the error message is from fossil /sys/src/cmd/fossil/9user.c:89 but where the username 'write' comes from I have no idea. I am running a pccpuf kernel on the server, and 9pc on the terminal with no significant modifications. Help! -Steve From bwc@coraid.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 07:22:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2402228_8361_11d8_8182_00304828b574_29188; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FA1345355 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f20f26e6_8361_11d8_8d06_00304828b574_29185; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3AA167580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:22:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86E57580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1d0e94e_8361_11d8_83ce_00304828b574_29182; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029C4345355 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f122a172_8361_11d8_99d4_00304828b574_29178; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8191419A20; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:22:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1FC919A69; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:22:31 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9011B19A69; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:21:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 218A819A20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:21:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brantley Coile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] multiple certs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:11:16 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? Brantley From micah@epaphras.fernsend.stetsonnet.org Thu Apr 1 11:39:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 09:01:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c725d25a_836f_11d8_977d_00304828b574_22201; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DAC34475E for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6f5567a_836f_11d8_970e_00304828b574_22198; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D65EA7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:01:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7527580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:01:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6b4a7c4_836f_11d8_8430_00304828b574_22195; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDEF34475E for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:01:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c60725fe_836f_11d8_97d1_00304828b574_22191; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6375619C03; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5058D19ECF; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:01:31 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9EC6D19ECF; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:00:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from epaphras.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5AFC19D34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by epaphras.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4D255AA; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic Message-ID: <20040331170247.GA8698@epaphras.fernsend.stetsonnet.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:02:47 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > p.s. Yeah, I am sure there is not bayesian spam filter on this list, but > still, I betcha that last message (most appropriate name, eh?) would have > gone right through. My bayesian filter caught it. Micah From bs@nospam.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 09:52:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d87cc7b4_8376_11d8_837e_00304828b574_32657; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8569F345357 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d8486e38_8376_11d8_94a2_00304828b574_32653; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 67E1B7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170E47580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d8036fb8_8376_11d8_9ea0_00304828b574_32646; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:52:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DE1345357 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d75452e4_8376_11d8_98c3_00304828b574_32641; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:52:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6B1019F0D; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:52:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B1CE119CF5; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:52:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 486A919EFA; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:51:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EBA919C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.67.167]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004040100511501100c2ojje>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 00:51:15 +0000 Message-ID: <406B6786.7020904@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs References: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> In-Reply-To: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:51:18 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFCI_DSN autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Brantley Coile wrote: > So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion > on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? > I don't think it can do certs as you see it. What you can do is send the fingerprint of your cert, which it can lookup and authorize. This is similar to what some telnet clients do: (a) someone must have had the authorization to the fp on the server (b) you are presenting me with that, so, you are OK http://www.vandyke.com/products/securecrt/public_key.html From bwc@coraid.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 10:05:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0192838_8378_11d8_8115_00304828b574_7092; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1443447E5 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id afe261f4_8378_11d8_8edb_00304828b574_7080; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 38E3D758104; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:05:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181437580FF for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:05:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab50f7c2_8378_11d8_8d6c_00304828b574_7006; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:05:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABEE3447F2 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:03:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5e6e490a_8378_11d8_9018_00304828b574_5743; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:03:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E58A19F12; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:03:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCA6A19CF5; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:03:05 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F0E119CF5; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9044A19C05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:01:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61fafe8ab9b86563901218d32ec29c92@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <406B6786.7020904@nospam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:54:26 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Brantley Coile wrote: >> So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion >> on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? >> > I don't think it can do certs as you see it. > > What you can do is send the fingerprint of your cert, > which it can lookup and authorize. I want to do https without having the browser fuss. How can figerprints help with that? From bs@nospam.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 11:11:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2a42b8c_8381_11d8_8dda_00304828b574_21343; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8B9345360 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e272b4d0_8381_11d8_8928_00304828b574_21340; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E9A007580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19DC7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2353d1c_8381_11d8_8dbf_00304828b574_21337; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:11:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FCC345360 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e18105f4_8381_11d8_8922_00304828b574_21333; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:11:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26CB719F27; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1741919F1B; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:11:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9524119F1F; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DB0519F19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.67.167]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004040102105301600hudkne>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:10:55 +0000 Message-ID: <406B7A30.3010506@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs References: <406B6786.7020904@nospam.com> <61fafe8ab9b86563901218d32ec29c92@borf.com> In-Reply-To: <61fafe8ab9b86563901218d32ec29c92@borf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:10:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFCI_DSN autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Brantley Coile wrote: >>Brantley Coile wrote: >> >>>So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion >>>on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? >>> >> >>I don't think it can do certs as you see it. >> >>What you can do is send the fingerprint of your cert, >>which it can lookup and authorize. > > > I want to do https without having the browser fuss. > How can figerprints help with that? > I misunderstood: I assumed that you wanted the server (https) to validate a clients cert. Fingerprints cannot help you there. I don't know this https server to tell you how to make it present the cert chain. From bs@nospam.com Thu Apr 1 11:39:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 11:15:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6fc10fd0_8382_11d8_8a5e_00304828b574_22065; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:15:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BFB345369 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f9094ae_8382_11d8_9563_00304828b574_22062; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:15:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AAB6A7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6203B7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f50d0e4_8382_11d8_9dcd_00304828b574_22059; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:15:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65525345369 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6e9be058_8382_11d8_9f7f_00304828b574_22055; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:15:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52C2119CE4; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:15:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD62419C08; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:15:08 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E569919CE4; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D86E319C08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from nospam.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.67.167]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004040102142101200nb37je>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:14:21 +0000 Message-ID: <406B7B01.7060809@nospam.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs References: <406B6786.7020904@nospam.com> <61fafe8ab9b86563901218d32ec29c92@borf.com> In-Reply-To: <61fafe8ab9b86563901218d32ec29c92@borf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: bs@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:14:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFCI_DSN autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Brantley Coile wrote: >>Brantley Coile wrote: >> >>>So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion >>>on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? >>> >> >>I don't think it can do certs as you see it. >> >>What you can do is send the fingerprint of your cert, >>which it can lookup and authorize. > > > I want to do https without having the browser fuss. > How can figerprints help with that? > If your browser is like Mozilla/Netscape, you can import the server cert as a .pem file. So, if you know the cert it presents, you can make the browser aware of it. Simplest is to issue a self signed cert and import it in the browser. From rminnich@lanl.gov Thu Apr 1 16:22:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 12:56:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ecca700_8390_11d8_9251_00304828b574_18996; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF67B3449C4 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e9b2dba_8390_11d8_9d84_00304828b574_18993; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B2D147580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692EB7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e5af9f2_8390_11d8_86e4_00304828b574_18989; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CD83449C4 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8dacb086_8390_11d8_83a6_00304828b574_18985; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 573B019F1D; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EB9F19F18; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:56:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A78E19F10; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD4FB19EFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i313tnik026174 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:55:49 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i313tns0018417 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:55:49 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i313tmwO009366 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:55:49 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic In-Reply-To: <20040331170247.GA8698@epaphras.fernsend.stetsonnet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:55:48 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Micah Stetson wrote: > My bayesian filter caught it. Wrong again. Darn. I gotta get me one of these things. ron From nmh@t3x.org Thu Apr 1 16:22:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 16:03:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abc80ea2_83aa_11d8_8cff_00304828b574_718; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:03:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDB4344B29 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:03:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab805fb2_83aa_11d8_920b_00304828b574_714; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:03:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B0607580FD; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:03:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856907580FF for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:03:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8b36892_83aa_11d8_9360_00304828b574_676; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:03:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48875344B29 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:02:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c5dfb9e_83aa_11d8_8280_00304828b574_32736; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:02:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 087AF19F35; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:02:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9079C19F29; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:02:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 713D319F2F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:01:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDA4119F29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 02:01:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B8wCk-0001wg-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:34 +0200 Received: from [80.140.14.29] (helo=t3x.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B8wCj-00078L-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:01:34 +0200 Received: (from nmh@localhost) by t3x.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id i3170QT09583; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:00:26 +0200 (CEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Nils M Holm Subject: Re: [9fans] authentication failed... In-Reply-To: <961870212c6527689764090ad7c6d6b4@snellwilcox.com> Message-ID: <2004040106561800-9569@Symmetry.UUCP> X-Mailer: NMail X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:5b68ff8df1d89a0a7485e040b6c88401 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:56:18 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On 2004-03-31, plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com wrote: > I can see the error message is from fossil > /sys/src/cmd/fossil/9user.c:89 but where the username > 'write' comes from I have no idea. When a group called write exists, only users of that group have write permission on the file server. To all others, the server appears read-only. This is what fossil(4) says. Nils. -- Nils M Holm -- http://www.t3x.org/nmh/ From nemo@lsub.org Thu Apr 1 22:03:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 17:46:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11496722_83b9_11d8_868f_00304828b574_24618; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:46:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98173344E93 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1114d3cc_83b9_11d8_995e_00304828b574_24615; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8210D7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0957580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10dab6c4_83b9_11d8_8949_00304828b574_24612; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B429344E93 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 102db064_83b9_11d8_8926_00304828b574_24608; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C2CF19F3E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:46:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44EBA19F2C; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:46:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7448319F2E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:45:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2048E19F22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:45:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] x10 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:45:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've pushed to sources a program called lights, that is a gui for the x10 file system. It can be used to see the status of lights/sensors and to change them by using the mouse. The file system (cm11 driver) has some bugs fixed too. hth From david@cantrell.org.uk Thu Apr 1 22:03:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 18:37:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31dab69c_83c0_11d8_817b_00304828b574_4950; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:37:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95FA344CE1 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:37:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31a934b4_83c0_11d8_97cd_00304828b574_4947; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:37:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9C5837580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:37:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526647580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:37:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3168d6b2_83c0_11d8_9944_00304828b574_4944; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:37:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA30344CE1 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:37:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30b9f61a_83c0_11d8_9f4f_00304828b574_4940; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:37:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AEF219F42; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 04:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6358819F2E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 04:37:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B172419F3B; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 04:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from bytemark.barnyard.co.uk (bytemark.barnyard.co.uk [212.13.209.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C050819F2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 04:07:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from david by bytemark.barnyard.co.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B8yAF-0004GK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:07:07 +0100 From: David Cantrell To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... Message-ID: <20040401090706.GA16331@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> References: <1080657809.4901.214.camel@zevon> <1080742399.17780.318.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1080742399.17780.318.camel@zevon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Tell-Your-Children: knives taste nice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:07:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 03:13:19PM +0100, Dave Lukes wrote: > P.S. We're up to 13 definite attendees, plus a couple of maybes! Count me as a maybe too. I won't know if I can attend until maybe a week before the con. But I live in London, so at least sorting out accomodation won't be a problem :-) -- Grand Inquisitor David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The test of the goodness of a thing is its fitness for use. If it fails on this first test, no amount of ornamentation or finish will make it any better, it will only make it more expensive and foolish. -- Frank Pick, lecture to the Design and Industries Assoc, 1916 From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Thu Apr 1 22:03:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 19:55:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 161c9d2a_83cb_11d8_8be7_00304828b574_26969; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E1F344C7A for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15e1448c_83cb_11d8_95fe_00304828b574_26966; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 812B67580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:55:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3715A7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15a5f454_83cb_11d8_95b0_00304828b574_26963; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37841344CE9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14ef1fae_83cb_11d8_8ad0_00304828b574_26959; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD50D19F50; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:55:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88DDE19D40; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2998019AFA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 991CF19F4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 05:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1B8zmc-0000ef-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:50:50 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <40606498.1050200@swtch.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:50:08 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Russ Cox wrote: ...deleted > > the problem isn't that i don't know what the structure should look like. > the problem is that i don't want to do it. i find it annoying to have > to type things like /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin/acme, surely you would have set your $path to include /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin ? > and further > it makes writing shell scripts impossible: > > #!/usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin/rc > > isn't very portable! you'd have to have a shell script "rc" that ran > the binary rc and then use > > #!/usr/local/plan9/rc/bin/rc > > or something like that. it's just disgusting. is it correct to assume that this unportableness of rc scripts is the reason for using /bin/sh all over the place? including in mk, which is not entirely to my liking. > i don't have many > environments > where different architectures share a tree like /usr/local, so i don't > worry > much about it. if we had union directories (or even athena's environment > variable symlinks) to hide the ugliness, i might feel differently. how about ignoring those that have the same home directory on several architectures? this leaves ''only'' the simpler problem of installing different files into $PLAN9/bin depending upon architecture. the reason that i am willing to ignore these people is that i no longer am one of them. at the time i did inded use the "disgusting" method of having $PLAN9/bin/rc calling different binaries. > it's easy enough to change if you want to change it -- just edit > /usr/local/plan9/src/mkhdr and change BIN and LIB. since i am not entirely sure about what "it's" refers to, i will ask: do you mean that changing BIN and LIB will make it possible to install into /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386 bengt From rsc@swtch.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 22:21:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a156294_83df_11d8_8550_00304828b574_1143; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AB63441FF for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79e48552_83df_11d8_9909_00304828b574_1140; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 37C967580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:21:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E642A7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79a7999e_83df_11d8_8a2b_00304828b574_1137; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66493441FF for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78f073fe_83df_11d8_9653_00304828b574_1133; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC3E919F68; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:21:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D8A819C83; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:21:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 238E319B62; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 371F219B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:20:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C9924FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:20:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406C1717.4030809@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs References: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> In-Reply-To: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:20:23 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Brantley Coile wrote: >So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion >on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? > > use the source, luke. From rsc@swtch.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 22:25:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0af8fc94_83e0_11d8_8f00_00304828b574_2114; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:25:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5813B344213 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:25:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0abe2330_83e0_11d8_90a8_00304828b574_2108; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:25:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 394887580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:25:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C797580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:25:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a760712_83e0_11d8_9fec_00304828b574_2105; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:25:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9579344213 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:25:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09bf3262_83e0_11d8_9d25_00304828b574_2101; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:25:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5911919C95; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 356DB19C83; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:25:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE8C219C83; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1E5019C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438A924FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:24:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: , <40606498.1050200@swtch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:24:33 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Bengt Kleberg wrote: > Russ Cox wrote: > ...deleted > >> >> the problem isn't that i don't know what the structure should look like. >> the problem is that i don't want to do it. i find it annoying to have >> to type things like /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin/acme, > > > surely you would have set your $path to include > /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin ? sure but i still type the paths a lot. > > and further > >> it makes writing shell scripts impossible: >> >> #!/usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386/bin/rc >> >> isn't very portable! you'd have to have a shell script "rc" that ran >> the binary rc and then use >> >> #!/usr/local/plan9/rc/bin/rc >> >> or something like that. it's just disgusting. > > > is it correct to assume that this unportableness of rc scripts is the > reason for using /bin/sh all over the place? including in mk, which is > not entirely to my liking. the reason mk uses sh is that it came before rc. i'm not sure what to do here. i'm not convinced rc is quite stable enough to be used in mk. > > i don't have many > >> environments >> where different architectures share a tree like /usr/local, so i >> don't worry >> much about it. if we had union directories (or even athena's >> environment >> variable symlinks) to hide the ugliness, i might feel differently. > > > how about ignoring those that have the same home directory on several > architectures? this leaves ''only'' the simpler problem of installing > different files into $PLAN9/bin depending upon architecture. how does this differ from what i am currently doing? >> it's easy enough to change if you want to change it -- just edit >> /usr/local/plan9/src/mkhdr and change BIN and LIB. > > > since i am not entirely sure about what "it's" refers to, i will ask: > do you mean that changing BIN and LIB will make it possible to install > into /usr/local/plan9/FreeBSD/386 yes. From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 22:42:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b4c5e2c_83e2_11d8_9c27_00304828b574_5453; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:42:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA03344DD2 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b11fd04_83e2_11d8_9aa1_00304828b574_5450; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D8B057580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE0A7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ad8b1de_83e2_11d8_9113_00304828b574_5447; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7C3344DD2 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:42:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a2b4724_83e2_11d8_888a_00304828b574_5443; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C61A319F78; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D85E619F60; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:42:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E4AF19F78; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26FFC19F6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:41:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4f0a1035cb523869008cb59cb22c7f6c@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <406C1717.4030809@swtch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:38:36 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Brantley Coile wrote: > >>So, maybe I missed it. Did anyone have a suggestion >>on how to send a certificate chain in tlssrv? >> >> > > use the source, luke. I am. Can I just decode the pem, stick all the certs together and turn them back into a pem and point tlssrv at that? From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 22:52:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cbabe782_83e3_11d8_9102_00304828b574_7159; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:52:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23937344F7E for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:52:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb70fc94_83e3_11d8_8526_00304828b574_7156; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:52:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 04B2B7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:52:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5777580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:52:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb2cac7e_83e3_11d8_9297_00304828b574_7153; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:52:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1113344F80 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:52:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca79a0d4_83e3_11d8_84d0_00304828b574_7144; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:52:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98D6419F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:52:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 061E619F68; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:52:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DF2C19F74; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:51:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 086A319F6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id A2E3D3D3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:50:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B9E3CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:50:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22371 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:50:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080827408.17780.468.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:50:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Damn! All I need is a place to live, a load of X10 stuff and a plan9 system and I can really start to have some fun:-~. Dave. On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 09:45, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > I've pushed to sources a program called lights, > that is a gui for the x10 file system. It can be used to > see the status of lights/sensors and to change them by > using the mouse. > > The file system (cm11 driver) has some bugs fixed too. > > hth > > From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 22:55:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3bcf7f10_83e4_11d8_8e6c_00304828b574_7608; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EB6344F81 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b9e59c6_83e4_11d8_8a73_00304828b574_7605; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 350767580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:55:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08647580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b5d0f8e_83e4_11d8_9d14_00304828b574_7602; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7B6344F81 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3aaf2da6_83e4_11d8_904e_00304828b574_7598; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:55:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF12519F63; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:55:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA5D19C15; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00D0119C15; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2687219B62 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10439 invoked by uid 991); 1 Apr 2004 13:54:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20040401135457.10438.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-reply-to: <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> References: , <40606498.1050200@swtch.com> <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> Comments: In-reply-to Russ Cox message dated "Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:24:33 -0500." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:54:57 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | rc is quite stable enough to be used in mk. Byron's rc is! From matt@proweb.co.uk Fri Apr 2 15:37:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 23:09:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a0f352a_83e6_11d8_89d0_00304828b574_11032; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80707344F92 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 29d8e678_83e6_11d8_972e_00304828b574_11029; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 63AFD7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBAA7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 299aa002_83e6_11d8_9370_00304828b574_11026; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:09:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D28D344F92 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:09:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 28edba36_83e6_11d8_8a85_00304828b574_11022; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:09:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADB4419BB5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7D0819B11; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:09:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88D5519F80; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:08:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E77619F79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:08:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:10:31 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It will soon be 9 years since plan9 was announced to the world http://www.lucent.com/press/0795/950718.bla.html I found a picture of the team here : http://www.bell-labs.com/history/unix/ltcontributions.html I made a mock up of a new one here : http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/curse_of_glenda.html Seems it's about time to have a new picture taken :) Sorry, we were trying for an April fools but this is the best I could manage at 2 mins notice. m From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 23:54:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84dcc3d6_83ec_11d8_94ed_00304828b574_22259; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:54:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CC1344279 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:54:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84a8b9c4_83ec_11d8_9bab_00304828b574_22256; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:54:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A38BB7580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:54:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650067580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83cb87d4_83ec_11d8_8e00_00304828b574_22253; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D6F344279 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:54:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 831cec74_83ec_11d8_8ba8_00304828b574_22248; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:54:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C6C419FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:54:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D0BC19FC1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:54:30 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D84A619FC7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8ABB719FCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <328404-28664>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:26 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:05:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > you just can't beat those bayesian spam filters with a stick, eh? bayesian doan work. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 23:55:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95195fa2_83ec_11d8_8bf7_00304828b574_22401; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E5534427D for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94e3bc94_83ec_11d8_91f8_00304828b574_22395; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 01D267580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:14 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7127580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94a946f4_83ec_11d8_9859_00304828b574_22392; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B935B34427D for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93f98976_83ec_11d8_8a0b_00304828b574_22387; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B25019FDE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2747019FD6; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:55:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6808819FA9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F3A219FD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <328362-28669>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c417f0$5a313260$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1080657809.4901.214.camel@zevon> <19C285BF-82A9-11D8-AF77-000A95C4B4C0@orb.sh> <1080724905.17780.1.camel@zevon> <59F752CE-82F9-11D8-AF77-000A95C4B4C0@orb.sh> <1080727037.17780.54.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] Re: 9conlon Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:55:22 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 10:54, Michael Baldwin wrote: > > > You might want to "officially" attend in order to get a personalised > > > t-shirt from boyd, though! > > > > Hmm, yes, perhaps. Do I email Boyd directly and ask for a T-shirt? > > Yup: or I do, like this:-) yeah, i got it down to a 2 minute job for the images. i have a contact in paris for the printing. payment is the ony problem; i'll give the image(s) away, but printing them costs real fiscal device(s) (tm). From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 23:55:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a86772c4_83ec_11d8_9df4_00304828b574_22439; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B69F34427F for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a82b62a2_83ec_11d8_9168_00304828b574_22436; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 56D587580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C81A7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7f016de_83ec_11d8_87a1_00304828b574_22433; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1FA34427F for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7417a70_83ec_11d8_8574_00304828b574_22429; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9EEB019FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DA0119FD4; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:55:37 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2271019FD4; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C69F019FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <328267-28669>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c417f0$56f4f320$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:22:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I'll agree with you there. The eval is unnecessary. 'eval' -- therein lies dragons. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 1 23:56:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ba0a9a42_83ec_11d8_8ff2_00304828b574_22589; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:56:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F62344280 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:56:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9d47d54_83ec_11d8_922d_00304828b574_22586; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:56:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F21567580FA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:56:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA92D7580F9 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b99beeee_83ec_11d8_93aa_00304828b574_22583; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9791344280 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:56:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b8ee0720_83ec_11d8_80d3_00304828b574_22579; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9279719FE3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2363819FD2; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:56:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83A1919FC7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5606019FCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <328287-28669>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:52:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c417f0$579578e0$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] certificates and tlssrv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:28:37 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > We don't follow chains, we just believe any x.509 fingerprints we > have. good call. the PKI is a disaster and a monopoly. From noah.evans@cwru.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:04:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dca60252_83ed_11d8_83dc_00304828b574_24576; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624D334429D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbb50d8e_83ed_11d8_9063_00304828b574_24564; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2B9557580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:04:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A30A7580FB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db2b6782_83ed_11d8_85a1_00304828b574_24553; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79E834429D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c361ea54_83ed_11d8_9846_00304828b574_24247; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:03:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2D6C19F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88F1219F7D; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:03:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A02F19BDF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:01:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.med.unc.edu (zebulon.med.unc.edu [152.19.4.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBE2319BFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:01:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.222.128 (d8k4c531.med.unc.edu [152.19.50.16]) by smtp.med.unc.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i31F1226003133 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:01:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <13f1d7af5d5cba9ea39f9b75adc4996a@cwru.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Noah Evans In-Reply-To: <000a01c417f0$56f4f320$34fea8c0@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xpfigfusdqyjserwjttlrdajba" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:01:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xpfigfusdqyjserwjttlrdajba Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yup, consider me chagrined. What do the 9fans think of hygenic macros? Noah --upas-xpfigfusdqyjserwjttlrdajba Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (mpspam4.tis.case.Edu [129.22.104.191]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HVH0166WYW6AL@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for npe@cwru.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:57:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) id AEN43764 (forwarded by mail filter of npe); Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:57:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mirapoint2.tis.cwru.edu (mirapoint2.TIS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.47]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id AEN43762; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:57:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mirapoint2.tis.cwru.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id ASU39166; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C339919FD6; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 247BC19FA9; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:55:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2271019FD4; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:53:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C69F019FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <328267-28669>; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:52:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:22:51 +0200 From: "boyd, rounin" Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Errors-to: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Reply-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <000a01c417f0$56f4f320$34fea8c0@SOMA> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mirapoint-Loop-ID: 214852143cb9831b7351d13999d7498c X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Junkmail-Status: score=17/45, host=mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu References: X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 List-Archive: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> Original-recipient: rfc822;npe@spamfree.cwru.edu > I'll agree with you there. The eval is unnecessary. 'eval' -- therein lies dragons. --upas-xpfigfusdqyjserwjttlrdajba-- From salomo3@cooper.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:22:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67262612_83f0_11d8_931e_00304828b574_28602; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:22:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042AD34420A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:22:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66f4cbe4_83f0_11d8_8f39_00304828b574_28599; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:22:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DDD947580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:22:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9607F7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66b761a0_83f0_11d8_9783_00304828b574_28596; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9759734420A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6600fe88_83f0_11d8_9a02_00304828b574_28592; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 352F219FC7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:22:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6141419F83; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:22:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C84D19F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:21:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7479419F78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:21:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id BB0F13939; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id EB3C83937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from conjunction.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.223]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4227.199.98.20.223.1080832249.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:10:49 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable boyd, rounin said: >> you just can't beat those bayesian spam filters with a stick, eh? > > bayesian doan work. > > I've been getting spam that has significant amounts of Dissociated Press-style text after the sales pitch - they're trying to make bayesian filters break. In html mail spam, some of this is in microscopic font - I needed to zoom to 32x to make out any words. --Joel From t.lankots@aprote.ee Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:26:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5c92c66_83f0_11d8_94c2_00304828b574_29237; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF71344E28 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5980ea6_83f0_11d8_91d2_00304828b574_29234; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2F0E27580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9C57580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f556c1e4_83f0_11d8_87d5_00304828b574_29231; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8EEE344E28 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4a88d72_83f0_11d8_902c_00304828b574_29227; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4822919FA9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EFD019F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0981319F94; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A160B19F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i31FQUH4007096 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:26:31 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] tactic X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D92@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] tactic Thread-Index: AcQX/UQ5T7KqPvynQNOXWJXacZHG9AAADoSg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:25:55 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > In html mail spam, some of this is in microscopic font - I=20 > needed to zoom > to 32x to make out any words. My bayesian is trained to trigger on html. I do not receive non-spam html mail. From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:26:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc6ae8ca_83f0_11d8_85f0_00304828b574_29258; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F93344E28 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc35872a_83f0_11d8_85a0_00304828b574_29255; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 59A257580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1371B7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc01539c_83f0_11d8_978c_00304828b574_29252; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21177344E28 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:26:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb52b170_83f0_11d8_9d71_00304828b574_29248; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:26:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EDEC19FD7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B647C19FDE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24BBE19F7A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CB7619F79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:25:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <13f1d7af5d5cba9ea39f9b75adc4996a@cwru.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:31:24 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > What do the 9fans think of hygenic macros? dunno what others think but i reckon macros (hygienic or not) make it much harder to maintain a program. you have to get through the custom syntax before you can start seeing what's really going on. if you need that kind of expressivity, consider writing an interpreter, a translator or a preprocessor. limbo doesn't have macros, and although i've occasionally thought "a macro would be nice here" the benefits of having all source code in standard form far outweigh the costs. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:28:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3411ca00_83f1_11d8_957a_00304828b574_29578; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:28:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE20344E30 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:28:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33dbc7ca_83f1_11d8_9b21_00304828b574_29575; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:28:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AB9317580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:28:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618087580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:28:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33a0cb34_83f1_11d8_812f_00304828b574_29572; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:28:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B14344E30 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:28:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32f32b82_83f1_11d8_9750_00304828b574_29568; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:28:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD63519F94; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:28:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC7F219FCF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:28:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3A2719FC7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4127319F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <319578-15131>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:09 -0500 Message-ID: <01ac01c417f5$0f91db60$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1080657809.4901.214.camel@zevon> <1080742399.17780.318.camel@zevon> <20040401090706.GA16331@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:24:35 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > But I live in London, so at least sorting out > accomodation won't be a problem :-) i _am_ in london :) From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:29:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 57550c16_83f1_11d8_96b7_00304828b574_29743; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:29:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF79344E29 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 57216514_83f1_11d8_9f53_00304828b574_29740; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC8B27580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9383C7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56eabe6a_83f1_11d8_911d_00304828b574_29737; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35F0344E29 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 563d88a8_83f1_11d8_8190_00304828b574_29733; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B24D19FD7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DD0D19FCF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:29:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4F6F19F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:28:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (neuromancer.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE79B19FA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:28:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 6E2A41B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:27:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7d1888911c2480baef75cf5968630b5a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:33:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Sorry, we were trying for an April fools but this is the best I could > manage at 2 mins notice. yeah, it's a bummer when April 1st arrives at 2 minutes notice. again. :-) From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:32:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c58c4f64_83f1_11d8_86b1_00304828b574_30277; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4352344E38 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c54df05c_83f1_11d8_95c7_00304828b574_30274; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B14577580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:32:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AEA27580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5162276_83f1_11d8_82e3_00304828b574_30271; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6B4344E38 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:32:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c468acfe_83f1_11d8_809c_00304828b574_30267; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:32:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA85919F7A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B03519F3A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5B0C1999B; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:31:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7326C19F79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <320622-23213>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:30:11 -0500 Message-ID: <01f301c417f5$9eb820b0$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <236644674bedacddc3c60778cf9d5a99@borf.com> <406C1717.4030809@swtch.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple certs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:28:35 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > use the source, luke. as one with the knowledge and magic of the source. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:34:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a5d00ca_83f2_11d8_81fc_00304828b574_30531; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528BE344E38 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a2b1970_83f2_11d8_9254_00304828b574_30528; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 355227580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9DC7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09f19114_83f2_11d8_84f3_00304828b574_30525; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0556C344E38 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0943b486_83f2_11d8_85b4_00304828b574_30521; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D563C19FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:34:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08DD319F68; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:34:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4B2B19F3A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F09119B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <335209-29412>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:31:50 -0500 Message-ID: <020501c417f5$d9622210$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> <4227.199.98.20.223.1080832249.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:30:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > boyd, rounin said: > >> you just can't beat those bayesian spam filters with a stick, eh? > > > > bayesian doan work. > > > > > I've been getting spam that has significant amounts of Dissociated > Press-style text after the sales pitch - they're trying to make bayesian > filters break. yes, i've seen that, hence my comment [above]. From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:34:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1412ddb0_83f2_11d8_95c6_00304828b574_30567; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1B1344E3B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13d91ba2_83f2_11d8_8a34_00304828b574_30564; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 79F127580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294057580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 139ab10a_83f2_11d8_87ac_00304828b574_30561; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30159344E3B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12e7d436_83f2_11d8_8739_00304828b574_30557; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 140B419FDC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A0B719F68; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:34:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B76F119F41; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:33:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE1D619B11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:33:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 9F4683E9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:32:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B323B3DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:32:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18204 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:32:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: RE: [9fans] tactic From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D92@black.aprote.com> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D92@black.aprote.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080833535.17780.525.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:32:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > My bayesian is trained to trigger on html. Sorry: I didn't understand that: are you saying you've weighted your bayesian filter against html, or that you just reject all html mail before the statistical stuff? > I do not receive > non-spam html mail. You are very lucky! Dave. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:36:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52126bc6_83f2_11d8_9c70_00304828b574_30919; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C18344E40 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51dce852_83f2_11d8_9336_00304828b574_30910; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7AE957580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327C87580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 519d9f08_83f2_11d8_88a2_00304828b574_30906; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:36:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F78344E40 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:36:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50f01a54_83f2_11d8_8e7b_00304828b574_30900; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:36:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FA0B19F68; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43C7219FC7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:36:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 975A719F8D; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:35:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 249B419B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <318769-23202>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:33:51 -0500 Message-ID: <021801c417f6$2237c350$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1080827408.17780.468.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:32:15 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > All I need is a place to live, a load of X10 stuff and a plan9 > system and I can really start to have some fun:-~. all i need is a large amount of money [150k EUR] and then ... From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:37:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 74a455a0_83f2_11d8_9795_00304828b574_31226; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962C6344E46 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 746e0392_83f2_11d8_9b7c_00304828b574_31223; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 81CFD7580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0797580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 74346ea2_83f2_11d8_9c8b_00304828b574_31220; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E3A344E46 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:37:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73854d78_83f2_11d8_960c_00304828b574_31210; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:37:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A940F19FE4; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9BC919FDB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:37:07 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FDB719FCF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B415C19F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <320872-23209>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:35:28 -0500 Message-ID: <021e01c417f6$5c059580$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040401135457.10438.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:33:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Byron's rc is! solid as a rock, since '91 or so. ran it for 2.5 years at PRL as my shell, on mutiple archictectures and os's. From salomo3@cooper.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:39:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2478f98_83f2_11d8_8e68_00304828b574_31560; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:39:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB01344FC3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:39:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c215e358_83f2_11d8_9242_00304828b574_31557; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:39:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BE4FA7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:39:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F397580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:39:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1d64f4a_83f2_11d8_8419_00304828b574_31554; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:39:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81CE3344FC3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:39:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1268f74_83f2_11d8_9490_00304828b574_31549; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:39:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB32219FE5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:39:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20BD719FE3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:39:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37C0919FD8; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C91FF19FDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:37:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id D42F33938; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 48BF23937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from conjunction.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.223]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4385.199.98.20.223.1080833219.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D92@black.aprote.com> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D92@black.aprote.com> Subject: RE: [9fans] tactic From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:26:59 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tiit Lankots said: >> In html mail spam, some of this is in microscopic font - I >> needed to zoom >> to 32x to make out any words. > > My bayesian is trained to trigger on html. I do not receive > non-spam html mail. > Good idea. This, however, was a spamtrap email address - I get *no* non-spam email there. I just got curious about any new tactics, and adding random "conversational" text (probably snarfed off usenet) is a pretty clever on= e - expect the false positive rate to go up once you've trained your filter on a couple of these. --Joel From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:47:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3c0b13a_83f3_11d8_9793_00304828b574_427; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88086344FD2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e38f5478_83f3_11d8_81af_00304828b574_424; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6AD1D7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217D67580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e34f404a_83f3_11d8_8e40_00304828b574_421; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F64A344FD2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2a0cca4_83f3_11d8_9ac2_00304828b574_417; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B6A1919FEA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F39E819F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D26419FDC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:46:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3B6E19F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:46:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <320276-23213>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:45:00 -0500 Message-ID: <026901c417f7$b0808470$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:43:23 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > limbo doesn't have macros, and although i've occasionally thought "a > macro would be nice here" the benefits of having all source code in > standard form far outweigh the costs. yup From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:47:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb9912ee_83f3_11d8_9684_00304828b574_453; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9FA3344FD2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb643010_83f3_11d8_919a_00304828b574_450; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 973767580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCB67580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb29f62a_83f3_11d8_9bc2_00304828b574_447; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A968344FD2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:47:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea7b6970_83f3_11d8_80d3_00304828b574_443; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E078219FEB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BF7619FE9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14F9219FE0; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:46:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C530519FD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:46:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3661148-30210>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:35:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > It will soon be 9 years since plan9 was announced to the world it was up and running in the last '80s iirc. brucee securenet keyed into it from sydney :) From jsnader@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 00:48:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 020cd1be_83f4_11d8_93e7_00304828b574_574; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:48:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591A6344FD3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:48:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 01d7fc46_83f4_11d8_9d2b_00304828b574_571; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:48:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 435107580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:48:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFCE7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:48:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 019c75ae_83f4_11d8_9973_00304828b574_568; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:48:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06EC6344FD3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:48:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00ed84b8_83f4_11d8_9453_00304828b574_564; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:48:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7F7E19B28; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A20C019FDC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:48:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FCC319FDE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (cmc-gw.customer.alter.net [63.122.229.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA0E419F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0A4BD5B6; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:57 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Snader To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic Message-ID: <20040401154757.GA96198@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> <4227.199.98.20.223.1080832249.squirrel@wish> <020501c417f5$d9622210$34fea8c0@SOMA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <020501c417f5$d9622210$34fea8c0@SOMA> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:47:57 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 04:30:14PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > > > > bayesian doan work. > > > > > I've been getting spam that has significant amounts of Dissociated > > Press-style text after the sales pitch - they're trying to make bayesian > > filters break. > > yes, i've seen that, hence my comment [above]. They're working fine for me. The filter adapted to the garbage salad at the end pretty quickly, and now it routinely drops all those messages in the spam trap. jcs From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:02:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd473ab4_83f5_11d8_8b7e_00304828b574_6065; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4FC344259 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd02e990_83f5_11d8_8ac1_00304828b574_6058; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A32D8758102; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:02:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8878C7580FF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f99e5dde_83f5_11d8_99da_00304828b574_6016; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173883442BC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6d23da78_83f5_11d8_82b9_00304828b574_3783; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F54D19F77; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C4B919B28; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:58:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E17119F5E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A29BE19B28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:57:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <321256-23207>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:56:24 -0500 Message-ID: <02a801c417f9$477d5c30$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:54:45 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > http://www.lucent.com/press/0795/950718.bla.html where's ken? From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:03:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 271e97c4_83f6_11d8_9477_00304828b574_6715; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8556A344231 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26e91158_83f6_11d8_9ea5_00304828b574_6707; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D98FF758103; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:03:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EE17580FF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:03:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 218eac5e_83f6_11d8_9231_00304828b574_6596; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:03:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD98C3441BF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:00:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b637dee4_83f5_11d8_8f13_00304828b574_5006; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:00:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26CDC19F54; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79CE619FB7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:00:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38C5D19F54; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3D6819B4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <320187-15129>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <02b001c417f9$68950a30$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:55:41 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I found a picture of the team here : > http://www.bell-labs.com/history/unix/ltcontributions.html oops, where's ken? From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:10:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 19a0ad7a_83f7_11d8_8e46_00304828b574_8118; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:10:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622043442D9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:10:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 196a5ad6_83f7_11d8_9aef_00304828b574_8115; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:10:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 41FFE7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:10:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53AE7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:10:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1923b2ca_83f7_11d8_8b4d_00304828b574_8112; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:10:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6C83442D9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:10:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1871108e_83f7_11d8_87b6_00304828b574_8108; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:10:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01B3319CFD; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24DE319CFD; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9062619CFD; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 697B719CA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 155F73EB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:08:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119233E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:08:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28479 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:08:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080835687.17780.568.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:08:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > bayesian doan work. No, not in the absolute sense, but neither does anything else. I've yet to see anything that works better than SpamAssassin in a "real" situation (i.e. no "please confirm ..." etc.) At the moment, we're getting slightly more spam than usual, probably due to all the markov stew the spammers are using: the tuning becomes somewhat more critical: e.g. if I have insomnia and dump the spam into the processor through the night, the intra-day spam drops off by ~~%50. BTW, FYI: I'm backpedalling rapidly on SPF: it looks like it already has enough traction to do some good ... Also SPF will, hopefully, allow us to "sharpen" bayesian filters by allowing through the good stuff and thus not polluting the filters so much. Dave. From rob@mightycheese.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:12:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 593502d8_83f7_11d8_9280_00304828b574_8458; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:12:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177BE3442DF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:12:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59029bea_83f7_11d8_9d68_00304828b574_8455; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:12:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EC7D67580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:12:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42F07580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:12:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58c1efd2_83f7_11d8_88b1_00304828b574_8452; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:12:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27633442DF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:12:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5813c204_83f7_11d8_9eac_00304828b574_8447; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:12:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65AFF19D09; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BF3019BCA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75BE019BCA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [204.239.179.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33CAD19BB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:57 -0500 (EST) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from [192.168.0.2] (adsl-69-110-26-179.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.110.26.179]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i31GBsYx005025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:11:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <656AD03B-83F7-11D8-8EB1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rob Pike Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:12:38 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> It will soon be 9 years since plan9 was announced to the world the plan 9 'coming out' papers appeared at UKUUG in 1990. -rob From t.lankots@aprote.ee Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:14:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a261270c_83f7_11d8_9f33_00304828b574_8803; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:14:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90583442E5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2294abc_83f7_11d8_9636_00304828b574_8800; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B1B7F7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:14:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679177580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1ec6110_83f7_11d8_9366_00304828b574_8797; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765143442E5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a13e7a78_83f7_11d8_9452_00304828b574_8793; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC4CF19F93; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:14:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4299C19D09; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:14:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1ED319D09; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 649BF19C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i31GE3sU007695 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:14:03 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [9fans] tactic X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D93@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] tactic Thread-Index: AcQYA/D4M4XV7NzbRzKQsUMKDT4d5gAADLxg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:13:27 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I've yet to see anything that works better than SpamAssassin > in a "real" situation (i.e. no "please confirm ..." etc.) I backed out of SpamAssassin quickly. Turned out to be a memory/cpu hog. From rsc@swtch.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:15:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6d5f608_83f7_11d8_9def_00304828b574_9024; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:15:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22883442EC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c69edd58_83f7_11d8_9920_00304828b574_9021; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC8EC7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DCE7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6634d24_83f7_11d8_86d9_00304828b574_9018; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17063442EC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:15:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5b55822_83f7_11d8_9bef_00304828b574_9014; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C69A19FA9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D56B819F6F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:15:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 227D619F3A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:14:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 404BE19C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:14:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (lusitania.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.154]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D478024FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:14:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406C3FF6.6050704@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: , <40606498.1050200@swtch.com> <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> <20040401135457.10438.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040401135457.10438.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:14:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Scott Schwartz wrote: >| rc is quite stable enough to be used in mk. > >Byron's rc is! > > if not! From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:18:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35e23106_83f8_11d8_8add_00304828b574_9522; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087D73442F3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3582c19e_83f8_11d8_9092_00304828b574_9519; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3AF87580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:18:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D797580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:18:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3512fada_83f8_11d8_8c29_00304828b574_9516; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:18:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD86D3442F3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:18:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34157fa4_83f8_11d8_9b5d_00304828b574_9506; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:18:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDB1819C5A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A64019FA9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:18:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 91DE719F63; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA5AB19C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:17:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e5d57a52ec72f44737ce2436a3731db@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <656AD03B-83F7-11D8-8EB1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-neomvepuevhoqvvlqgljgpdwww" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:23:20 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-neomvepuevhoqvvlqgljgpdwww Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit frightening, isn't it. --upas-neomvepuevhoqvvlqgljgpdwww Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by doppio; Thu Apr 1 17:17:23 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9539319F5E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AE6119CFD; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:08 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75BE019BCA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer01.geekmail.cc (dictum-ext.geekmail.cc [204.239.179.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 33CAD19BB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:11:57 -0500 (EST) X-Envelope-To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: from [192.168.0.2] (adsl-69-110-26-179.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.110.26.179]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailer01.geekmail.cc (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i31GBsYx005025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:11:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <656AD03B-83F7-11D8-8EB1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rob Pike Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:12:38 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> It will soon be 9 years since plan9 was announced to the world the plan 9 'coming out' papers appeared at UKUUG in 1990. -rob --upas-neomvepuevhoqvvlqgljgpdwww-- From rsc@swtch.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:27:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 800e8954_83f9_11d8_8cd9_00304828b574_11589; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:27:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC2A3442F5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:27:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e73fa98_83f9_11d8_8d6b_00304828b574_11579; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4DF2B758105; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:27:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C307580FE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7dca79dc_83f9_11d8_9e7a_00304828b574_11564; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2053442F5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7aacc638_83f9_11d8_80f9_00304828b574_11517; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 915F919FD1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE1F019C5A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:27:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3076119F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:26:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E0E119C5A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:26:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (lusitania.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.154]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D787724FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:26:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406C42A4.8000607@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:26:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: rog@vitanuova.com wrote: >>What do the 9fans think of hygenic macros? >> >> > >dunno what others think but i reckon macros (hygienic or not) make it >much harder to maintain a program. you have to get through the custom >syntax before you can start seeing what's really going on. > >if you need that kind of expressivity, consider writing an >interpreter, a translator or a preprocessor. > > I think it would be great if the C compiler had some sort of nice extension facility (call it hygenic macros with syntax) so that we could write alt { <- done => print("done\n"); c <-= val => print("sent val\n"); } But you're right, that would make it much harder to maintain the program. Instead we should content ourselves with writing Alt alts[3]; alts[0].c = done; alts[0].v = 0; alts[0].op = CHANRCV; alts[1].c = c; alts[1].v = val; alts[1].op = CHANSND; alts[2].op = CHANEND; switch(alt(alts)){ case 0: print("done\n"); break; case 1: print("sent val\n"); break; } which is much clearer and doesn't require us to wade through custom macro syntax. Russ From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:29:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc8f51a6_83f9_11d8_9a40_00304828b574_12577; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:29:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB5E3442BE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc5e52d6_83f9_11d8_88dc_00304828b574_12572; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A03B87580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C097580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc1d5b28_83f9_11d8_9854_00304828b574_12568; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DC23442BE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb6f008c_83f9_11d8_95c3_00304828b574_12560; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DA2819F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 915F819F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:29:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3634B19F36; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00C4E19B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <315282-23209>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:27:17 -0500 Message-ID: <02e901c417fd$94193060$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <406C3FF6.6050704@swtch.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:25:32 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > if not! curmugeon ;) From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:32:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 28135f62_83fa_11d8_907d_00304828b574_13050; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167623442BE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 27d6f810_83fa_11d8_9e6f_00304828b574_13047; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 02BE67580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:32:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1597580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 279dc41e_83fa_11d8_9b0c_00304828b574_13044; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC07F3442BE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26eeb2b2_83fa_11d8_9b4b_00304828b574_13040; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7679D19FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE95F19F8A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:32:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDBB319F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAEF719FB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:31:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5e41b72c510b06780690bb849150319c@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <3e5d57a52ec72f44737ce2436a3731db@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:39 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Eric Levenez's Unix chart starts the Plan 9 line in 1986. I have it highlighted on the wall. It runs along without arrows branching into it for the bulk of the chart, while the rest of the Unix world is a chaos of incest between all the versions of Unix. It is truly telling. http://www.levenez.com/unix Brantley From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 01:35:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97565bd6_83fa_11d8_8db5_00304828b574_13557; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:35:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB947344318 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 971d01f6_83fa_11d8_93c9_00304828b574_13554; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A9C697580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:35:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688147580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96e794ee_83fa_11d8_9a5e_00304828b574_13551; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A81A344318 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:35:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 963bbea8_83fa_11d8_986d_00304828b574_13547; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:35:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9888619FE1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCA7A19F8A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:35:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 33F5819F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:33:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C961819B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:33:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3e5d57a52ec72f44737ce2436a3731db@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:33:50 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > frightening, isn't it. It isn't. At least if you consider that most people are using technology made for the environments in the (early) 70s. From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:01:06 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a9053ea_83fe_11d8_939b_00304828b574_17881; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482F934500C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a5a66ea_83fe_11d8_94c0_00304828b574_17878; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 29ECA7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:06 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC007580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 297c8064_83fe_11d8_9012_00304828b574_17868; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26F234500C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 28c87af6_83fe_11d8_961e_00304828b574_17864; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:04 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7604419F75; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB6BA19F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:00:41 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87BA819F5B; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:57:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A38719F49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 496493F6; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:57:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8643C7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:57:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA09162 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:57:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: RE: [9fans] tactic From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D93@black.aprote.com> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D93@black.aprote.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080838598.17780.704.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:56:38 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I backed out of SpamAssassin quickly. Turned out to be a memory/cpu > hog. Sure is: we're only ~80 people/5000 messages per day, and we'll probably need to throw a load of hardware at it to keep it going, but so what? Its still a damned sight cheaper than 80 people manually spamfiltering. Dave. From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:01:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 363e1b28_83fe_11d8_8dcf_00304828b574_17900; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7BD34500D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36022258_83fe_11d8_9b4a_00304828b574_17897; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BBE657580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693F47580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35c23788_83fe_11d8_9f62_00304828b574_17894; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F49B34500D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 350eeb6a_83fe_11d8_9e54_00304828b574_17890; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B564619F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:01:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9199D19F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:01:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBCBC19F8D; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 057D519F60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 693722FF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6B92E8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09757 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <656AD03B-83F7-11D8-8EB1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> <022401c417f6$8a684760$34fea8c0@SOMA> <656AD03B-83F7-11D8-8EB1-000A95B984D8@mightycheese.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080838784.17780.712.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:59:44 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the plan 9 'coming out' papers appeared at UKUUG in 1990. Damn. After a nostalgic smile, I suddenly realised that my (ex-)wife has probably burned my original copy of the proceedings. :-(, Dave. From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:03:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89854a22_83fe_11d8_9346_00304828b574_18228; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:03:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E091345012 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:03:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 894b87c4_83fe_11d8_87ef_00304828b574_18225; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:03:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71CA07580F9; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:03:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC337580FA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88ed8340_83fe_11d8_8b48_00304828b574_18222; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:03:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33A8345013 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:03:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88270e4a_83fe_11d8_87a6_00304828b574_18205; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 114FE19FC9; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 865B319AA2; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:03:30 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF8D419F8A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8EF019F3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:01:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 8A3C03B7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9813B2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09791 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:53 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040401154757.GA96198@ix.netcom.com> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> <4227.199.98.20.223.1080832249.squirrel@wish> <020501c417f5$d9622210$34fea8c0@SOMA> <20040401154757.GA96198@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080838815.17780.714.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:00:15 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > They're working fine for me. The filter adapted to the garbage > salad at the end pretty quickly, and now it routinely drops all > those messages in the spam trap. Yes, but ... 1) your database(s) just keep growing 2) you're fuzzying the line a lot: our well tuned spamassassin scores most stuff _very_ close to the "non-spam" score: a difference of .1/5 (2%) in the score means about another 20-30 spams getting through. So, as you "pollute" your filter, you increase the likelihood of false positives/negatives. Dave. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 2 15:37:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:08:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 331f6ac2_83ff_11d8_899b_00304828b574_19012; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:08:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E51B34501F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:08:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32ef4356_83ff_11d8_9628_00304828b574_19009; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:08:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 111417580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:08:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA1E7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:08:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32aefa44_83ff_11d8_900d_00304828b574_19006; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:08:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0CED34501F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:08:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31fb1a74_83ff_11d8_8b09_00304828b574_19002; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:08:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D7EE19FC1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:08:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6E9119F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:08:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D066519F79; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:07:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EB6819F97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:07:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i31H7GD13991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:07:16 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] _SLEEP.s Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:06:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: When attempting to debug tcl 7.6, one of the tests that fails uses select() and seems to get caught in an infinite loop. Acid reports: acid: lstk() _SLEEP()+0x7 /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/syscall/_SLEEP.s:5 select(timeout=0x5d2d0,rfds=0x0,wfds=0x0,efds=0x0,nfds=0x0)+0x5e3 /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/_buf.c:280 t=0xa f=0x7fffd3c4 i=0x8a43a26c n=0xe9d6f slots=0x0 err=0x7fffd3bc Tcl_Sleep(ms=0xa)+0xe8 /pub/src/tcl7.6/plan9/tclPlan9Notfy.c:319 before=0x8a43a26c after=0x8a43a26c [ ... ] and what baffles me is that the stated syscall code is not to be found in the given location. The nearest I came up with was in the .../gnu/ape hierarchy. I checked sources and that also has no entries other than the mkfile in /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/syscall so perhaps somebody can explain how that mkfile works, at least in broad terms. Lastly, can anyone hazard a reasonable guess as to how the sleep syscall actually gets itself in a loop? The timeout value is "10", if acid is not lying. ++L From jsnader@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:26:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b688daa4_8401_11d8_8158_00304828b574_24930; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:26:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B3D3442F6 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:26:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b650eeb4_8401_11d8_9abb_00304828b574_24925; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:26:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C3A17758100; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:26:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981297580FE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:26:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b489e752_8401_11d8_85af_00304828b574_24909; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:26:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC5B344349 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:25:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91daf6a6_8401_11d8_83ec_00304828b574_24425; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:25:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 720FF19FDC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDA4719FD7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:25:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5451319FD3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (cmc-gw.customer.alter.net [63.122.229.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 271EA19FD5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:24:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by jsnader.netwolvesrd.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B3CB04B6; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Snader To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic Message-ID: <20040401172414.GB96744@ix.netcom.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Snader , 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> <4227.199.98.20.223.1080832249.squirrel@wish> <020501c417f5$d9622210$34fea8c0@SOMA> <20040401154757.GA96198@ix.netcom.com> <1080838815.17780.714.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1080838815.17780.714.camel@zevon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:24:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 06:00:15PM +0100, Dave Lukes wrote: > > They're working fine for me. The filter adapted to the garbage > > salad at the end pretty quickly, and now it routinely drops all > > those messages in the spam trap. > > Yes, but ... > 1) your database(s) just keep growing > 2) you're fuzzying the line a lot: > our well tuned spamassassin scores most stuff _very_ close > to the "non-spam" score: a difference of .1/5 (2%) in the score > means about another 20-30 spams getting through. > So, as you "pollute" your filter, you increase the likelihood > of false positives/negatives. > I haven't used SpamAssassin, so I'll take your word for it. My use of a Bayesian filter is for my personal account, which is relatively low volume (150-200 messages per day). I doubt that a Bayesian filter would work as well when it's filtering for multiple people. The point of my post, though, was only that Bayesian filters could deal with the garbage salad. They obviously aren't the perfect solution, or even the best solution for all purposes. They do, however work well for me. Maybe one or two spams slip by on a given day, and I get virtually no false positives. YMMV, of course. jcs From ggm@apnic.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:31:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 699edf80_8402_11d8_9ecc_00304828b574_25665; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BD034436A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69680f00_8402_11d8_8106_00304828b574_25662; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F0BD77580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7DE57580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 692de83e_8402_11d8_8477_00304828b574_25659; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55AE34436A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 687f3c4e_8402_11d8_9e24_00304828b574_25655; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EEC119FDA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3AF519F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:31:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8310A19F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BEE219F7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i31HUlI7023033 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:30:49 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic Message-Id: <20040402024613.49a0850e@garlic> In-Reply-To: <1080835687.17780.568.camel@zevon> References: <001001c417f0$5b952f30$34fea8c0@SOMA> <1080835687.17780.568.camel@zevon> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws33 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.001 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100.001 (notspam) BAYES_40,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:46:13 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:08:07 +0100 Dave Lukes wrote: >> bayesian doan work. Bayesian koan work. the disciple was hit by the master with a stick and was enlightened. But the spam kept coming, he just didn't care any more. -George From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:31:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71d45914_8402_11d8_8b30_00304828b574_25682; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD30B34436A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 719d7cfa_8402_11d8_9a18_00304828b574_25679; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B9D587580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752267580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71666fda_8402_11d8_8bfe_00304828b574_25676; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E8234436A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:31:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70b7e8f2_8402_11d8_81ca_00304828b574_25672; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:31:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E3A019FE3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA4FB19FD7; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:31:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B668B19F7A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:30:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57B0019F3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:30:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8cdad86de9428072d82f8764a903f798@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <406C42A4.8000607@swtch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:36:36 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > which is much clearer and doesn't require us to wade through > custom macro syntax. i sympathise completely. problem is the moment you have something that's flexible enough to allow alt, you'll get someone that wants to do all kinds of other things with it. remember: LOCAL TREPTR list(flg) { REG TREPTR r; REG INT b; r = term(flg); WHILE r ANDF ((b=(wdval==ANDFSYM)) ORF wdval==ORFSYM) DO r = makelist((b ? TAND : TORF), r, term(NLFLG)); OD return(r); } what you're after, i think, is a different language, one with one or two extra features, not really a way to customise C in an arbitrary way. a pre-processor could do the job, but you'd pay the price. if many people defined syntax like the alt stuff, you'd really struggle to work out what was going on. IMHO a language requires a small, coherently designed set of features, not a way to add every feature under the sun. From ggm@apnic.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:34:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d2474fae_8402_11d8_9719_00304828b574_26193; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:34:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2DE344361 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:34:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d20417de_8402_11d8_9db0_00304828b574_26190; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:34:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 796947580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:34:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306087580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:34:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d1cab23c_8402_11d8_848e_00304828b574_26187; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:34:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4C8344361 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:34:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d11ce1e8_8402_11d8_89d5_00304828b574_26183; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:34:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0C0F19FDF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A36E19F7E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:34:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A7D919F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1015319F7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i31HXgI7023473 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:33:49 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available Message-Id: <20040402024820.4d4a86fd@garlic> In-Reply-To: <5e41b72c510b06780690bb849150319c@borf.com> References: <3e5d57a52ec72f44737ce2436a3731db@vitanuova.com> <5e41b72c510b06780690bb849150319c@borf.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws33 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:48:20 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: counting tech development generations akin to human ones, I suspect the incest is more like a small tribe rooting amongst itself a little more than you'd want, but not actually what claude levi-strauss would class as full on whack-jobs. mandatory mating with VMS and CTSS would of course be much more in the levi-strauss model of tribal anti-incest control.. -George From noah.evans@cwru.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 02:59:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54018fc0_8406_11d8_9d78_00304828b574_31074; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75295345041 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 539b138a_8406_11d8_9349_00304828b574_31071; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5EBC77580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:59:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22D87580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:59:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5332988c_8406_11d8_90cb_00304828b574_31068; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:59:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C20345041 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:59:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52352da0_8406_11d8_8b78_00304828b574_31064; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:59:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1D7619FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:59:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BBEA19F5E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:59:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 456F919F5E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.med.unc.edu (ahoskie.med.unc.edu [152.19.4.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A836E19BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.222.128 (d8k4c531.med.unc.edu [152.19.50.16]) by smtp.med.unc.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i31HwBCg003965 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:58:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4480b39f295c1bb285304c4b2e0f9261@cwru.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Noah Evans In-Reply-To: <8cdad86de9428072d82f8764a903f798@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nhuknwbulvpcuncxxlcnzijcdy" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:58:05 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nhuknwbulvpcuncxxlcnzijcdy Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the idea of the hygenic macro is to implement the macro facility in to the compiler as a change to the parse tree rather than a change to the program text with a preprocessor(sorry if I'm being painfully obvious here). This means that your macros don't have the normal problems associated with macros(precedence problems, multiple evaluation of arguments etc.). I haven't put very much thought into this, but from I'm guessing an implementation would act like a simplified yacc that worked with the compiler directly. Again I'm not sure how practical this would be. The only implementation I know of, in scheme, is aided by scheme's use of prefix notation. Figuring out the precedence order would be a pain. Thoughts? Noah --upas-nhuknwbulvpcuncxxlcnzijcdy Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (mpspam4.tis.case.Edu [129.22.104.191]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HVI00U0860TW8@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for npe@cwru.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) id AEN71584 (forwarded by mail filter of npe); Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (mirapoint1.TIS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.46]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id AEN71575; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id BBV20066; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67C2119F5E; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0DDA719F3E; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:31:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B668B19F7A; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:30:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57B0019F3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:30:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:36:36 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs In-reply-to: <406C42A4.8000607@swtch.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Errors-to: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Reply-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <8cdad86de9428072d82f8764a903f798@vitanuova.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mirapoint-Loop-ID: d367b96555615728d51f3e0bf52371dd X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Junkmail-Status: score=5/45, host=mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 List-Archive: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> Original-recipient: rfc822;npe@spamfree.cwru.edu > which is much clearer and doesn't require us to wade through > custom macro syntax. i sympathise completely. problem is the moment you have something that's flexible enough to allow alt, you'll get someone that wants to do all kinds of other things with it. remember: LOCAL TREPTR list(flg) { REG TREPTR r; REG INT b; r = term(flg); WHILE r ANDF ((b=(wdval==ANDFSYM)) ORF wdval==ORFSYM) DO r = makelist((b ? TAND : TORF), r, term(NLFLG)); OD return(r); } what you're after, i think, is a different language, one with one or two extra features, not really a way to customise C in an arbitrary way. a pre-processor could do the job, but you'd pay the price. if many people defined syntax like the alt stuff, you'd really struggle to work out what was going on. IMHO a language requires a small, coherently designed set of features, not a way to add every feature under the sun. --upas-nhuknwbulvpcuncxxlcnzijcdy-- From tad@entrisphere.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 03:25:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4efacd4_8409_11d8_8d87_00304828b574_3055; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:25:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F088345086 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:25:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4bfc21c_8409_11d8_97d8_00304828b574_3052; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:25:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 271B97580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:25:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90557580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:25:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f47d65e8_8409_11d8_87ff_00304828b574_3049; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:25:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DFD345086 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:25:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3ceedb0_8409_11d8_96d8_00304828b574_3044; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:25:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CCFA19F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C500819F60; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:25:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89CC619F60; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mobydick.int.entrisphere.com (unknown [63.203.52.228]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B9B419F3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:24:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from entrisphere.com ([192.168.168.142]) by mobydick.int.entrisphere.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:24:58 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:08:07 +0100." <1080835687.17780.568.camel@zevon> From: Tad Hunt Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2004 18:24:58.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3853620:01C41816] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:24:58 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: In message <1080835687.17780.568.camel@zevon>, Dave Lukes said: ;I've yet to see anything that works better than SpamAssassin ;in a "real" situation (i.e. no "please confirm ..." etc.) I find that spamassassin sucked rocks for filtering my email. I am currently using CRM114: http://crm114.sourceforge.net/ The drawback is that you have to train it before it works very well. In the beginning it's about 50%, but after the first week or two it has been well above 98% for me. It usually miss classifies a few messages out of about 150+/day for me. I should note that 3/4 of my email is actually SPAM, so I'm pretty happy with it. -Tad From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 03:37:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9c09d9f8_840b_11d8_8a84_00304828b574_4868; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:37:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 292FC3450B4 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:37:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9bd9832a_840b_11d8_9585_00304828b574_4865; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:37:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0CAAF7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:37:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97077580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:37:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b9b102c_840b_11d8_877c_00304828b574_4861; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:37:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D0C3450B4 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:37:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ac62524_840b_11d8_95d9_00304828b574_4857; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:37:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B69F19F80; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:37:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E70819F8A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:37:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0E4719F6F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF28B19B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:36:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <810c47b392ed21dbd01b75286fa1ec73@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <4480b39f295c1bb285304c4b2e0f9261@cwru.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:42:27 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I think the idea of the hygenic macro [...] one way or another you're talking about syntax transformation, so the syntax of the program you read is not that which is documented in the language reference manual. i think that this can easily lead to unmaintainable software. others disagree. off topic, anyway... From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 03:50:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 730591a8_840d_11d8_9b25_00304828b574_9955; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:50:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533B734437D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:50:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 72d43702_840d_11d8_933c_00304828b574_9952; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:50:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 36A3B7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:50:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BE17580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:50:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7295ec72_840d_11d8_9176_00304828b574_9949; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:50:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BE934437D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:50:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71e79712_840d_11d8_87ff_00304828b574_9944; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:50:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EEFC419FD1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:50:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C989219F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:50:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD82419F80; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D21619F8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:49:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37e14fef95256cf6310799c00de9177c@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] _SLEEP.s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:41 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: the mkfile generates the .s files automatically using a cunning for loop on syscall.h and case on $objtype. it's hygienic because it tidies up right away. From noah.evans@cwru.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 04:35:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf79d46c_8413_11d8_9305_00304828b574_18780; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:35:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D17E344A4F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:35:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf149a34_8413_11d8_8905_00304828b574_18777; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:35:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2EAA37580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:35:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3D27580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:35:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id beaf5d18_8413_11d8_877b_00304828b574_18774; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:35:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9F8344A4F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:35:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bdaf5e7c_8413_11d8_8f7a_00304828b574_18770; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:35:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0998F19C90; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29B3819F97; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:35:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A67719F6F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.med.unc.edu (wanchese.med.unc.edu [152.19.4.46]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D421C19C98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.222.128 (d8k4c531.med.unc.edu [152.19.50.16]) by smtp.med.unc.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i31JYFS9002576 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:34:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4623606e74a91925b510cd480e7738da@cwru.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Noah Evans In-Reply-To: <810c47b392ed21dbd01b75286fa1ec73@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pkkgxeotwynddtaprfogbsbzaz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:34:42 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pkkgxeotwynddtaprfogbsbzaz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right. But that's the point. What hygenic macros are(to me) a way of creating domain specific languages based on C. This can, when used badly, lead to unmaintainable software. You're exactly right. At the same time as Russ said it can abstract a complex and opaque computation and clarify its intention. To bring the subject of macros back to the subject of Plan 9, I made the initial comment thinking about a way to make the shell less dangerous when it expands metacharacters(in other words, protect me from myself). It's only an intuition, and I wanted to see what everyone thought of it. Noah --upas-pkkgxeotwynddtaprfogbsbzaz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (mpspam4.tis.case.Edu [129.22.104.191]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HVI014HE921F4@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for npe@cwru.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) id AEN83733 (forwarded by mail filter of npe); Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (mirapoint1.TIS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.46]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id AEN83727; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id BBV37527; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6734C19F82; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EACF19B73; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0E4719F6F; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF28B19B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:36:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:42:27 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs In-reply-to: <4480b39f295c1bb285304c4b2e0f9261@cwru.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Errors-to: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Reply-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <810c47b392ed21dbd01b75286fa1ec73@vitanuova.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mirapoint-Loop-ID: 525490f7bbb1aca8ec4cbd2b8be8c4b4 X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Junkmail-Status: score=5/45, host=mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 List-Archive: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> Original-recipient: rfc822;npe@spamfree.cwru.edu > I think the idea of the hygenic macro [...] one way or another you're talking about syntax transformation, so the syntax of the program you read is not that which is documented in the language reference manual. i think that this can easily lead to unmaintainable software. others disagree. off topic, anyway... --upas-pkkgxeotwynddtaprfogbsbzaz-- From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 04:42:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0b7c442_8414_11d8_8acd_00304828b574_19966; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510C63450D0 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0872dbe_8414_11d8_99dd_00304828b574_19963; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 33E077580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:42:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8267580FA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:42:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b04701da_8414_11d8_933e_00304828b574_19960; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:42:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4C43450D0 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:42:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af986fa8_8414_11d8_8cc3_00304828b574_19952; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:42:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB4B219F9A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:42:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 223A319C90; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:42:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5424419A6D; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:41:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6492C19A01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:41:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brantley Coile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] certificate chains Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:39:27 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Ok, I used the source. I see that tlssrv calls readcert() which reads in the PEM of the certificate and then calls dec64 to get a binary of the certificate. The tls rfc says that the certificate field is a chain starting with the current certificate progressing to a known root certificate. So, I wrote a program to read in a number of certificates, make them binary, and create a single certificate pem file that contains the certificate chain. So now, when tlssrv calls readcert it will get the whole thing. Still doesn't work. What am I missing? Brantley From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 04:43:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d24e8730_8414_11d8_90f0_00304828b574_20137; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:43:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9546D3450D1 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:43:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d212be8a_8414_11d8_9eb0_00304828b574_20134; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:43:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 827427580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:43:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6447580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:43:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d1da915e_8414_11d8_9a80_00304828b574_20131; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:43:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4667A3450D1 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:43:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d12a443e_8414_11d8_9a1c_00304828b574_20127; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:43:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0134A19FDB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDF8919FDA; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:43:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22A0A19FC1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AA6719CCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:42:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94ec8e21ec12b4dc3ae41b46df9420b8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <4623606e74a91925b510cd480e7738da@cwru.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:47:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > a way to make the shell less dangerous when it expands metacharacters it's easy... don't use eval! (i've written loads of rc scripts and i don't think i've ever used eval). if you really wanted to use eval in a safe way, you'd need some support for quoting; for instance: % quote a 'b c' d a 'b c' d % but it'd be awkward to use this in rc due to the `{} $ifs splitting. i made this kind of thing easier to do in the inferno shell, but i'm still not that convinced - it's very easy to build up inpenetrable layers. From mkasyanov@kremvax.org Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 04:56:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aabe97da_8416_11d8_9604_00304828b574_22244; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E843450F2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa8dd2c6_8416_11d8_9f77_00304828b574_22241; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2F36A7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:56:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3967580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa50b288_8416_11d8_84ce_00304828b574_22238; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E917A3450F2 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:56:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9a198d4_8416_11d8_9d23_00304828b574_22234; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 68F9819FDF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3851719FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:56:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0946F19BFF; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from kremvax.org (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5439119BCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:55:07 -0500 (EST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: vputin@kremvax.org, chernenko@kremvax.org Message-Id: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> From: mkasyanov@kremvax.org Subject: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:55:07 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, all, from Russia! On this, the 20th aniversary of my great country's first entry to the Internet, I wish to thank all members of this network for their continued support, comments, and opinions. As we had hoped, our presence on the internet has been a force for a positive exchange of ideas. This very kremvax proved very important in the support of our country in 1991. Truely this has been a positive force for all involved. Sadly, our VAX system, donated so many years ago by some in the Western world who were interested in the truth and exchange of ideas, is not able to meet the current needs for exchanging ideas. As we have become familiar with VAX hardware very much, we seek to continue to use such venerable architecture. But the system needs more "horsespower", so we have aquired much more! We are making Plan 9 run on these systems to help them work together, much as we have found the Internet helpful for. In the further interest of colaboration, we welcome any who wish to help in this effort. I invite everyone to sit back an open a new flask of vodka - or beer or wine! - to celebrate the last remarkable 20 years! NA ZDAROVJE! ----- Mikhail KASYANOV Tel: +7 095 040401 Email: mkasyanov@kremvax.org From noah.evans@cwru.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 05:05:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e7d365c8_8417_11d8_87f2_00304828b574_24477; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:05:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16E734422C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:05:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6c9e472_8417_11d8_84f1_00304828b574_24468; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:05:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1C58E758105; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:05:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A617580FA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:05:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5570c78_8417_11d8_8668_00304828b574_24444; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:05:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80BF3443F8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c7bafecc_8417_11d8_8ac3_00304828b574_23965; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26AE419FD8; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AF7319F8D; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:04:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4E9C19BFB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:02:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.med.unc.edu (ahoskie.med.unc.edu [152.19.4.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3118619BFF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.222.128 (d8k4c531.med.unc.edu [152.19.50.16]) by smtp.med.unc.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i31K2rCg017026 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:02:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Noah Evans In-Reply-To: <94ec8e21ec12b4dc3ae41b46df9420b8@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xursthrzoftcadwpdofebdornr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:02:48 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xursthrzoftcadwpdofebdornr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :) Exactly, But I love code that writes itself so I have a hard time giving it up ;) hence the interest in playing with the parse tree. Thanks for your insights, Noah --upas-xursthrzoftcadwpdofebdornr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (mpspam4.tis.case.Edu [129.22.104.191]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HVI001S2C65XJ@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for npe@cwru.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:44:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) id AEN95316 (forwarded by mail filter of npe); Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (mirapoint1.TIS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.46]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id AEN95300; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id BBV56914; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D6DF19FD4; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:43:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6952519FC7; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22A0A19FC1; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8AA6719CCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:42:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:47:56 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs In-reply-to: <4623606e74a91925b510cd480e7738da@cwru.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Errors-to: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Reply-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <94ec8e21ec12b4dc3ae41b46df9420b8@vitanuova.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mirapoint-Loop-ID: 2001bbedacbf457b3b8d3c6f7634fb43 X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Junkmail-Status: score=5/45, host=mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 List-Archive: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> Original-recipient: rfc822;npe@spamfree.cwru.edu > a way to make the shell less dangerous when it expands metacharacters it's easy... don't use eval! (i've written loads of rc scripts and i don't think i've ever used eval). if you really wanted to use eval in a safe way, you'd need some support for quoting; for instance: % quote a 'b c' d a 'b c' d % but it'd be awkward to use this in rc due to the `{} $ifs splitting. i made this kind of thing easier to do in the inferno shell, but i'm still not that convinced - it's very easy to build up inpenetrable layers. --upas-xursthrzoftcadwpdofebdornr-- From dvd@davidashen.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 05:10:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9fe29b34_8418_11d8_99c5_00304828b574_27010; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:10:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6201634442A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:10:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f4ab62a_8418_11d8_92db_00304828b574_27000; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:10:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E416A7580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:10:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A571C758102 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:10:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9d11ba98_8418_11d8_9b9b_00304828b574_26971; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:10:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56965344484 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3342a23a_8418_11d8_82c8_00304828b574_25471; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:07:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A04BD19FA5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC18819FD5; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:07:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB9B419FDC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:06:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (unknown [217.113.20.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E8D3519FDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (localhost.davidashen.net [127.0.0.1]) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i31K441b025641 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:04:04 +0500 (AMST) (envelope-from dvd@adat.davidashen.net) Received: (from dvd@localhost) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i31K44IF025640 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:04:04 +0500 (AMST) From: David Tolpin Message-Id: <200404012004.i31K44IF025640@adat.davidashen.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs In-Reply-To: <4623606e74a91925b510cd480e7738da@cwru.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:04:04 +0500 (AMST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Right. But that's the point. > > What hygenic macros are(to me) a way of creating domain specific languages > based on C. hugs is ported to Plan 9. Use haskell for domain-specific languages, it is great for the purpose. C is different -- it encourages to write thin, transparent programs; when it is used appropriately it is great. From dfawcus@cisco.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 05:58:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 557b02e6_841f_11d8_97b9_00304828b574_3854; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:58:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9503444EA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 55466414_841f_11d8_91ec_00304828b574_3851; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 97A177580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:58:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436917580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5505ea60_841f_11d8_9f07_00304828b574_3848; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504793444EA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5456cb16_841f_11d8_85e1_00304828b574_3844; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D3DB19D7A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 441EC19D6F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:58:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F44819D6F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF82219A87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:57:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2004 13:06:45 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i31KuWsk027844 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:56:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id VAA17512 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:57:05 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] soon be 9 years since plan9 was available Message-ID: <20040401215705.B12645@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <71f3a1ef8c487a0eda3a7a40caaac109@juice.thebigchoice.com> <7d1888911c2480baef75cf5968630b5a@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <7d1888911c2480baef75cf5968630b5a@vitanuova.com>; from rog@vitanuova.com on Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 04:33:09PM +0100 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:57:05 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 04:33:09PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > yeah, it's a bummer when April 1st arrives at 2 minutes notice. Though I did like the story the Beeb news site trotted out today... Cluck, Cluck, Kaboom From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 10:18:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6c7da88_8443_11d8_90a6_00304828b574_28198; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:18:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA28344739 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6883c98_8443_11d8_933d_00304828b574_28195; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CADC87580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:18:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786757580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a648f542_8443_11d8_9492_00304828b574_28192; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72507344739 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a58e0d7c_8443_11d8_89a6_00304828b574_28188; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99E6B19F82; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 418F819DAC; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:18:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CDBF19D53; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61CE519D9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id AB0DC46B; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:17:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B4245D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:17:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA15482 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:17:38 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1080865608.1815.220.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:26:48 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: First, don't get me wrong: I'm NOT a spamassassin fan, BUT ... it's the best I've seen, and I've got ~80 people to keep happy. > I find that spamassassin sucked rocks for filtering my email. Yeah, it probably did: I've never tried it but I'm sure it's uneconomical for small workloads. > I am currently using CRM114: http://crm114.sourceforge.net/ Nice, but ... > The drawback is that you have to train it before it works very > well. In the beginning it's about 50%, but after the first week > or two it has been well above 98% for me. And most of the usage I've seen has been on small, low-volume connections. i.e. even more than spamassassin it probably works better in single-mbox situations. OTOH out-of-the-box spamassassin does~~~80%, and we've got it up to ~96% (one server for all 80 people), which is deemed acceptable by the powers that be. If I tuned it a bit more wrt rbls etc. & did the per-user profile stuff I'm sure I could hit 99%. (The only negative there is that the per-user stuff is vulnerable to forgery:-(.) > It usually miss classifies > a few messages out of about 150+/day for me. I should note that > 3/4 of my email is actually SPAM, so I'm pretty happy with it. Strangely, we're only getting ~55% crap at the moment. Maybe 'cos I bounce (not can) spam? Back to plan9 programming ..., Dave. From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 10:47:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2e9375e_8447_11d8_9e4d_00304828b574_4594; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:47:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27CEE34476A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b29d0c9e_8447_11d8_916c_00304828b574_4588; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:47:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 129047580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58637580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b266d552_8447_11d8_99d5_00304828b574_4581; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:47:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4CE34476A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:47:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b1bf4ce2_8447_11d8_9e3c_00304828b574_4572; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:47:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2DE519FDB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:47:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A21A219F62; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:47:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35E1219F72; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 138C119DC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:46:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ac9f1875da23e2a87c944d85ab35e70@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <406C42A4.8000607@swtch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:41 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Actually, writing out alts initialisation by hand has always seemed clumsy to me. void newalt(Alt *ap, ChanOp op, Channel *c, void *v) { ap->op = op; ap->c = c; ap->v = v; } Alts alts[3], *ap = alts; newalt(ap++, CHANRCV, done, nil); newalt(ap++, CHANSND, c, val); newalt(ap, CHANEND, nil, nil); seems a bit more obvious and only requires one additional line per channel. From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 10:49:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f45a5f4c_8447_11d8_924b_00304828b574_5141; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:49:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171B534476A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:49:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4232d10_8447_11d8_8b1f_00304828b574_5138; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:49:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F17057580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:49:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EC97580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:49:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3e32eea_8447_11d8_94f3_00304828b574_5135; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:49:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34D934476A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:49:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3350ee6_8447_11d8_9ee0_00304828b574_5131; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:49:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2492919DC3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B87C19B4C; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:49:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09A2A19ACE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:48:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B84919ABC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:48:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <455d59ea1d087f34b30b7aa5e9a48080@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:48:17 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you find any of that code that writes itself, send some my way. Clearly AI has achieved greater things than I'd realised. =E2=98=BA From noah.evans@cwru.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 11:10:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id efc09052_844a_11d8_8da1_00304828b574_9638; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B84D344183 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:10:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eeafdcea_844a_11d8_9e06_00304828b574_9630; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9C41F7580FF; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:10:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F367580FD for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed6d6906_844a_11d8_839a_00304828b574_9623; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05AF344795 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:10:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e95f014e_844a_11d8_985d_00304828b574_9575; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1164819DA4; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:10:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4397C19D5E; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:10:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A16C19BC1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ims-msg.TIS.CWRU.Edu (northuist.CNS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.60]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 353EA19B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:09:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwru.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HVI012BETZNZ7@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [66.26.64.76] by ims-msg.cwru.edu (mshttpd); Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:09:23 -0500 From: Noah Evans Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <191f82192626.192626191f82@cwru.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:09:23 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: :) I picked up my bad habits when I figured out that I could make scheme eat syntax trees and spit out recognizers for particular patterns. It's been downhill ever since. ;) Noah ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoff Collyer Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [9fans] multiple inputs > If you find any of that code that writes itself, send some my way. > Clearly AI has achieved greater things than I'd realised. ? > > From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 11:54:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 204c3324_8451_11d8_9306_00304828b574_21608; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:54:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9EE3447E9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:54:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 201723d2_8451_11d8_97f9_00304828b574_21605; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:54:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3ACD27580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:54:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95D17580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:54:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1fe1a388_8451_11d8_9a73_00304828b574_21602; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:54:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004553447E9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:54:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1f31a050_8451_11d8_867a_00304828b574_21596; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:54:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0160A19F8A; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBA2C19DA1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:22:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C14419C4C; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:21:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FDA419A73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:21:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <53009e5e2985e691ab0193dfd0557fa2@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brantley Coile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] certificate chain Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:14:12 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Who's the keeper of tlshand.c? Brantley From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 11:55:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26e1071e_8451_11d8_8c5d_00304828b574_21756; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:55:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548B33447E9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:55:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26abd0d0_8451_11d8_8aff_00304828b574_21753; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:55:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 425FB7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:55:08 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B057580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:55:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2674ae16_8451_11d8_9b7e_00304828b574_21750; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:55:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9473447E9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:55:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25c7ae6e_8451_11d8_9213_00304828b574_21744; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:55:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B434D19F94; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:18:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AFEC19D5F; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:18:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD90919DA4; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A139419CCD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:17:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] dup vs QTAUTH Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:17:06 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Does anybody know why dup(2) appears to permit dupping a file descriptor for a QTAUTH file, but dup(3) gives Eperm? From salomo3@cooper.edu Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 12:29:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecab9078_8455_11d8_956d_00304828b574_28515; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:29:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F87A34483D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:29:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec79f770_8455_11d8_9158_00304828b574_28512; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:29:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 11E327580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:29:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0BB7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec386b66_8455_11d8_960b_00304828b574_28509; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C779934483D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb892da4_8455_11d8_8502_00304828b574_28505; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BB8519BBE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A70E19CB8; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:29:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E26919A64; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:28:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22D4919B5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 5E13B3938; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id C1B523937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from noun.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.225]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1110.199.98.20.225.1080875871.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> References: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mkasyanov@kremvax.org said: > Hello, all, from Russia! > NA ZDAROVJE! My russian is limited to "nyeh panyemayoh paruski" (and I can't spell it either ;-) ) -- is that "cheers!" or "April Fools!" ? And yes, I've read http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/K/kremvax.html --Joel From rvs@sun.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 12:34:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a76344ba_8456_11d8_94b6_00304828b574_29868; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:34:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7188934484B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:34:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7333cb6_8456_11d8_89a5_00304828b574_29864; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:34:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 543E47580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:34:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0044E7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:34:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6ec4c66_8456_11d8_853b_00304828b574_29858; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:34:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0280234484B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:34:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a636b392_8456_11d8_9273_00304828b574_29853; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:34:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6479A19DC3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3757C19BB2; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:34:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1FDD19BBE; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:32:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 540DF19A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i323W9LT009571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id i323W99s009814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id i323W6o11481 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance Message-ID: <20040402033206.GE11443@submarine> References: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> <1110.199.98.20.225.1080875871.squirrel@wish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1110.199.98.20.225.1080875871.squirrel@wish> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:32:06 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 10:17:51PM -0500, Joel Salomon wrote: > mkasyanov@kremvax.org said: > > Hello, all, from Russia! > > > NA ZDAROVJE! > > My russian is limited to "nyeh panyemayoh paruski" (and I can't spell it > either ;-) ) -- is that "cheers!" or "April Fools!" ? Depending on the context could be either "you're welcome!" or "cheers!" :-) Thanks, Roman. From frankg@jaco.fgleason.com Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 12:57:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbe68910_8459_11d8_9225_00304828b574_1616; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0162E344873 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:57:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbaec1b0_8459_11d8_9a50_00304828b574_1613; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D9E767580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:57:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9135D7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:57:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db6fe0b2_8459_11d8_91db_00304828b574_1609; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:57:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1B4344873 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:57:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dabf2812_8459_11d8_8b7c_00304828b574_1605; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:57:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47C1A19FC1; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 68F9D19CB3; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:57:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBAE319DCB; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from jaco.fgleason.com (jaco.fgleason.com [207.115.75.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FD9219D93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:56:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from jaco.fgleason.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jaco.fgleason.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i323ubRa004412; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:56:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (frankg@localhost) by jaco.fgleason.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i323ub4W004409; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:56:37 -0800 From: frankg@jaco.fgleason.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: vputin@kremvax.org, chernenko@kremvax.org Subject: Re: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance In-Reply-To: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: References: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:56:37 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Da, We welcome our socialist brothers. Sorry, we don't have any horsepower. I have seen some 'bull' on this list from time to time. On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 mkasyanov@kremvax.org wrote: > Hello, all, from Russia! > > On this, the 20th aniversary of my great country's first entry to the Internet, I wish to thank all members of this network for their continued support, comments, and opinions. As we had hoped, our presence on the internet has been a force for a positive exchange of ideas. This very kremvax proved very important in the support of our country in 1991. Truely this has been a positive force for all involved. > > Sadly, our VAX system, donated so many years ago by some in the Western world who were interested in the truth and exchange of ideas, is not able to meet the current needs for exchanging ideas. As we have become familiar with VAX hardware very much, we seek to continue to use such venerable architecture. But the system needs more "horsespower", so we have aquired much more! We are making Plan 9 run on these systems to help them work together, much as we have found the Internet helpful for. In the further interest of colaboration, we welcome any who wish to help in this effort. > > I invite everyone to sit back an open a new flask of vodka - or beer or wine! - to celebrate the last remarkable 20 years! > > NA ZDAROVJE! > > ----- > > Mikhail KASYANOV > Tel: +7 095 040401 > Email: mkasyanov@kremvax.org > From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 2 15:37:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 14:07:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3112186_8463_11d8_86ae_00304828b574_18371; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22C334490B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2dfc06e_8463_11d8_8309_00304828b574_18368; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8463F7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:07:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5CD7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a29ff876_8463_11d8_9ce7_00304828b574_18365; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A07534490B for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:07:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1f1830e_8463_11d8_83b9_00304828b574_18361; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:07:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B78BD19DC2; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3ED019DAA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:07:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C3DB19D70; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B25DA19D0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 00:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([135.196.93.169]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <360647-29418>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:52:40 -0500 Message-ID: <010a01c41865$bae3a0a0$34fea8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040401195507.5439119BCC@mail.cse.psu.edu> <1110.199.98.20.225.1080875871.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:51:06 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > My russian is limited to "nyeh panyemayoh paruski" (and I can't spell it > either ;-) ) -- is that "cheers!" or "April Fools!" ? sounds like "i don't understand russian". From t.lankots@aprote.ee Fri Apr 2 21:31:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 15:49:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de299bdc_8471_11d8_88f7_00304828b574_8109; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:49:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962793449E7 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:49:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dde14bc0_8471_11d8_8fa5_00304828b574_8106; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:49:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 806BA7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:49:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E857580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:49:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dda6f1be_8471_11d8_9338_00304828b574_8103; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:49:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458893449E7 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:49:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dcf7c39c_8471_11d8_9ed4_00304828b574_8099; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:49:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DED419D41; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A34AD19DD5; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:49:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 803E819AEF; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C51B319AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 01:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i326nGhi016296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:49:16 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D94@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance Thread-Index: AcQYcIZceia904BrT6mn3+EZqKgOkgADVC2Q From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:48:30 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiA5ZmFucy1hZG1pbkBjc2UucHN1 LmVkdSANCj4gW21haWx0bzo5ZmFucy1hZG1pbkBjc2UucHN1LmVkdV1PbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgYm95 ZCwgcm91bmluDQo+IFNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgQXByaWwgMDIsIDIwMDQgNjo1MSBBTQ0KPiBUbzog OWZhbnNAY3NlLnBzdS5lZHUNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFs5ZmFuc10gQW5pdmVyc2FyeTsgcmVx dWVzdCBmb3IgZ3VpZGFuY2UNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiA+IE15IHJ1c3NpYW4gaXMgbGltaXRlZCB0byAi bnllaCBwYW55ZW1heW9oIHBhcnVza2kiIChhbmQgSSANCj4gY2FuJ3Qgc3BlbGwgaXQNCj4gPiBl aXRoZXIgOy0pICkgLS0gaXMgdGhhdCAiY2hlZXJzISIgb3IgIkFwcmlsIEZvb2xzISIgPw0KPiAN Cj4gc291bmRzIGxpa2UgImkgZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBydXNzaWFuIi4NCg0KW9GPXSDQvdC1 INC/0L7QvdC40LzQsNGOINC/0L4t0YDRg9GB0YHQutC40LgNCg0KIlt5YV0gbnllaC4uLiIgaXMg YSByZWFzb25hYmxlIGFwcHJveGltYXRpb24NCg== From matthias@mteege.de Fri Apr 2 21:31:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 16:16:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a91814ba_8475_11d8_924e_00304828b574_16120; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6AE7344A27 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8e1650a_8475_11d8_8c52_00304828b574_16115; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 89E4F7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:16:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4E77580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8a09bce_8475_11d8_9b80_00304828b574_16111; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC8A344A27 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7f0ad04_8475_11d8_9052_00304828b574_16103; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04A1C19DE1; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:16:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A675419D93; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:16:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE3FC19DCD; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D2A419D93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 02:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 56639 invoked by uid 66); 2 Apr 2004 07:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 73141 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2004 07:15:17 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2004 07:15:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 58687 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2004 07:08:31 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2004 07:08:31 -0000 Message-ID: From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Terminal at 1400x1050 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:08:49 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Moin, is anybody runnig a Terminal at 1400x1050. I can't find a matching entry in /lib/vgadb. Matthias From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 2 21:31:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 17:41:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c2bb7b0_8481_11d8_8b74_00304828b574_2563; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25298344AEC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8bfa2c9a_8481_11d8_8f0d_00304828b574_2560; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E4E647580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:41:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A727580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ba90d7e_8481_11d8_96fa_00304828b574_2557; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4FC4344AEC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8afa5bbc_8481_11d8_8d6b_00304828b574_2553; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF43F19DF6; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:41:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 511C619DD0; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:41:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01B1B19DE9; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 179B219D71 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:39:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i328ddD16801 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:39:49 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] APE libbsd.a Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:39:18 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: In gettimeofday, the "/dev/time" device ought to be "/dev/bintime" or the procedure should be modified to use "/dev/time" correctly. The former fix seems a lot simpler. ++L From plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com Fri Apr 2 21:31:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 18:31:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87e0feca_8488_11d8_976a_00304828b574_13367; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69905344B8C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87affbf4_8488_11d8_9a94_00304828b574_13364; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4CC5F7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF257580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8776a232_8488_11d8_80f7_00304828b574_13361; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10165344B8C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86c0dd62_8488_11d8_8bd1_00304828b574_13357; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1733B19DAA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:31:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F37619D87; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:31:13 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C33BB19CD6; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9559719DE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:25:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:25:15 +0100 Received: from larch.com (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i32BBZjR002101 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:11:38 +0100 Message-ID: <32a012bc0c8ebc771a2c2c2dab58ef20@snellwilcox.com> From: plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] tactic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:25:14 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, For spam filtering I use the Plan9 auto one time certificate system (please send me back an email with this magic string in the subject line etc.) It does increase traffic but it works very well. Random thoughts on Baysian filtering: I don't understand why none of the filters seem to have an LRU policy to keep the database size down; perhaps they do now I am a bit out of touch. I am impressed with CRM114's sort-of Markov chain approach which looks much more likely to succeed. I keep meaning to try it... I have started to get emails consisting of text rendered into an image, and no textural content at all. This is not as much a problem to filter as it might appear, there are image fingerprinting techniques which are very robust to size, resolution, and colour changes. These fingerprints could then be used another degree of freedom in a baysian framework. -Steve From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 2 21:31:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 18:48:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db9863f8_848a_11d8_84b1_00304828b574_18797; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FCB3441FB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db406ba8_848a_11d8_899b_00304828b574_18779; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 80F917580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E204E75810E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d741e5e0_848a_11d8_9839_00304828b574_18716; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A4D344BCA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5073d30_848a_11d8_967f_00304828b574_18395; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0511F19DCE; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8613B19B78; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:47:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FB1C19DE8; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:32:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0BD919CD6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:32:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i329WMD19675 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:32:22 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <0b82791a20df5fb5126332025cb05429@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] APE libap.a (?) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:32:01 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The following code in /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/_buf.c strikes me at first glance as being wrong: /* make sure all requested rfds and efds are buffered */ if(nfds >= OPEN_MAX) nfds = OPEN_MAX-1; for(i = 0; i<= nfds; i++) if((rfds && FD_ISSET(i, rfds)) || (efds && FD_ISSET(i, efds))){ f = &_fdinfo[i]; if(!(f->flags&FD_BUFFERED)) if(_startbuf(i) != 0) { return -1; } The "nfsd" limit in the for() heading is unlikely to need testing less than _or_equal_to_ when one starts counting from zero. Then again, the limiting code preceding the for() heading may be wrong too and might be the cause of the confusion. ++L PS: In fact, the NetBSD man page is quite explicit: select() examines the I/O descriptor sets whose addresses are passed in readfds, writefds, and exceptfds to see if some of their descriptors are ready for reading, are ready for writing, or have an exceptional condi- tion pending, respectively. The first nfds descriptors are checked in each set; i.e., the descriptors from 0 through nfds-1 in the descriptor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ sets are examined. On return, select() replaces the given descriptor sets with subsets consisting of those descriptors that are ready for the requested operation. select() returns the total number of ready descrip- tors in all the sets. From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Fri Apr 2 21:31:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 18:48:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbb1d888_848a_11d8_8a26_00304828b574_18802; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24E0344B4E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db6ead24_848a_11d8_8f05_00304828b574_18787; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 83CFD758106; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162B7758110 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:48:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d75abd7c_848a_11d8_923e_00304828b574_18717; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB868344BC8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc4fe13c_848a_11d8_90a2_00304828b574_18480; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B0C519F65; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:47:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 94BC019DE8; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:47:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4568319DB4; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:39:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BD219B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:39:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1B9L3p-0004Yl-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:29:49 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Russ Cox wrote: > Bengt Kleberg wrote: ...deleted >> is it correct to assume that this unportableness of rc scripts is the >> reason for using /bin/sh all over the place? including in mk, which is >> not entirely to my liking. > > > > the reason mk uses sh is that it came before rc. > i'm not sure what to do here. i'm not convinced > rc is quite stable enough to be used in mk. i would conjecture that we have not one, but two ''mk''. one from mk-20040301.tgz that is of interest to a unix user that wants a new ''make'', but is not interested in plan9. this mk does not need to use ''rc''. the other ''mk'' is the one in plan9-20040321.tar.gz. this mk will be used by someone interested in plan9. i belive that this mk should use rc. if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc could be the ''trip'' test that comes with byrons rc. since it is never a good idea to have different commands with the same name (provided we have the same context. in this case unix) i suggest that one of the two mk are renamed. the one to rename, imho, is the one that uses sh. possible names would be: smk, umk (or mks, mku). ...deleted >> >> how about ignoring those that have the same home directory on several >> architectures? this leaves ''only'' the simpler problem of installing >> different files into $PLAN9/bin depending upon architecture. > > > > how does this differ from what i am currently doing? in plan9-20040321.tar.gz the ''ps'' command installed in $PLAN9/bin did not work on SunOS. i think it was working on another architecture. my solution was to choose/build the correct ''ps'' during install. i see that ''ps'' in plan9-20040330.tar.gz has solved the problem by detecting SunOS at runtime instead. about the new ''ps''. (a warning here. i am using openbsd man pages to interpret ''-axww''. this could very well be wrong since you presumably did now create ''ps'' on openbsd. however, openbsd seems to have the best man pages available online. please correct me if i am mistaken.) the ''x'' flag on openbsd means "Display information about processes without controlling terminals." the ''a'' flag on SunOS means "Lists information about all processes most frequently requested: all those except process group leaders and processes not associated with a terminal." i am not a native english speaker but my interpretation is that ''a'' does not include processes without controlling terminals. i therefore suggest that it is removed. ''A'' on its own should work. bengt From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 2 21:31:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 19:03:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0115edce_848d_11d8_8abd_00304828b574_21745; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:03:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC787344BD8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:03:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00e522d4_848d_11d8_915b_00304828b574_21742; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:03:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9DF517580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:03:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EF37580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:03:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00a5934e_848d_11d8_81a2_00304828b574_21739; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:03:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6175D344BD9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:03:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fff52374_848c_11d8_8b41_00304828b574_21734; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:03:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23E9319F29; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACEA919DD1; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:03:12 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7B0119DA5; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43ADD19D41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i329t7D20788 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:55:07 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <8810d7b486e1101e42a8165b766d6477@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] APE select(2) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:54:46 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I can't quite get my head around all the twists and turns of the APE select(2) implementation, I seem to miss the big picture altogether. Is there a brief description somewhere that will make it easier for me to understand the source? ++L From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Fri Apr 2 21:31:55 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 19:25:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 173f0402_8490_11d8_92ae_00304828b574_26782; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C6BC344C16 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 170ea5fa_8490_11d8_9668_00304828b574_26779; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 19E2A7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:25:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFD37580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:25:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 168fcde8_8490_11d8_8fdd_00304828b574_26776; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:25:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A256344C16 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:25:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15db7fe6_8490_11d8_93b3_00304828b574_26772; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:25:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BEF219DE8; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:25:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EAF819BF2; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:25:12 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D41C19DEF; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FC3219DCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1B9Lct-0004vJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:09:57 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Bengt Kleberg wrote: > if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. > a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc could be the ''trip'' test that > comes with byrons rc. the starting point in question proved to be a bit of a problem. the very first thing (not even a test i presume) of trip.rc is: # trip.rc -- take a tour of rc # Invoke as "path-to-new-rc < trip.rc" rc=$0 echo tripping $rc byrons rc (brc) thinks that $0 is: /home/eleberg/plan9/bin/rc but plan9 rc (9rc) thinks $0 is: /dev/stdin i am sure there is a prefectly good reason for this. does anybody know the reason and have the time to explain? bengt From fgergo@eik.bme.hu Fri Apr 2 21:31:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 20:11:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82142f2c_8496_11d8_8657_00304828b574_4991; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:11:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993D1344157 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81dee970_8496_11d8_8fd6_00304828b574_4988; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:11:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 868CB7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E23B7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81a5ecce_8496_11d8_9b65_00304828b574_4985; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:11:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E9F344180 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80f4ad06_8496_11d8_87db_00304828b574_4981; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:11:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7890619C75; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64A5119DCE; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:11:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB8DC19BEC; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from riddler.networkers.com.au (riddler.networkers.com.au [203.94.144.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B60919B8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from Debug ([203.94.144.67]) by riddler.networkers.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i32ARdu19334 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:27:39 +1000 Message-Id: <200404021027.i32ARdu19334@riddler.networkers.com.au> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: fgergo@eik.bme.hu Subject: Re: [9fans] Terminal at 1400x1050 X-Posting-IP: 213.253.194.6 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.2.9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:02:26 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, I use my laptop (Compaq Evo N610c, Radeon M7) - thanks to Philippe - in 1400x1050x32. Use t23 from vgadb. Gergo > Moin, > > is anybody runnig a Terminal at 1400x1050. I can't find > a matching entry in /lib/vgadb. > > Matthias --------------------------------------------- Message sent using http://www.mail2web.com.au From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Fri Apr 2 21:31:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 20:17:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ee2a812_8497_11d8_89ab_00304828b574_6036; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:17:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED06C344C6D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:17:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4e84ede4_8497_11d8_8c1c_00304828b574_6033; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:17:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D17427580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:17:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E6AC7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:17:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4e17c048_8497_11d8_919c_00304828b574_6030; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:17:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE967344C6D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:17:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d183c86_8497_11d8_9869_00304828b574_6025; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:17:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E03019F0A; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:17:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 320D919D7E; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:17:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8EA919DCD; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 42EF919D87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:15:54 +0100 Received: from larch.com (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i32D2IjR002260 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:02:19 +0100 Message-ID: <333e801f4f848cb3eadf4c91f713d224@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kbyjojgepafynifmijfcpaioeg" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:15:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kbyjojgepafynifmijfcpaioeg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. > a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc could be the ''trip'' test that > comes with byrons rc. I'am afraid Byron made some changes from (the one true ?) rc, some of these changes where usefull, some just taste but the bottom line is that trip.rc will not run under plan9 rc without a lot or work. -Steve --upas-kbyjojgepafynifmijfcpaioeg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by mta08-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040402102532.EIRE5004.mta08-svc.ntlworld.com@mail.cse.psu.edu> for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:25:32 +0100 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7980F19D87; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7949719C8D; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:25:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D41C19DEF; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0FC3219DCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1B9Lct-0004vJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:10:15 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:09:57 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Bengt Kleberg wrote: > if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. > a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc could be the ''trip'' test that > comes with byrons rc. the starting point in question proved to be a bit of a problem. the very first thing (not even a test i presume) of trip.rc is: # trip.rc -- take a tour of rc # Invoke as "path-to-new-rc < trip.rc" rc=$0 echo tripping $rc byrons rc (brc) thinks that $0 is: /home/eleberg/plan9/bin/rc but plan9 rc (9rc) thinks $0 is: /dev/stdin i am sure there is a prefectly good reason for this. does anybody know the reason and have the time to explain? bengt --upas-kbyjojgepafynifmijfcpaioeg-- From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 2 21:31:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 20:50:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea36f88c_849b_11d8_88c7_00304828b574_13066; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:50:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3BB344CCF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea028a52_849b_11d8_8e71_00304828b574_13063; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B5D727580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:50:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5E97580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9c7dfa6_849b_11d8_983d_00304828b574_13057; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B71D344CCF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:50:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e91a3428_849b_11d8_860f_00304828b574_13049; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:50:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5CBD19AC2; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:50:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC0B819D87; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:50:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7342C19DD1; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:49:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4604F19AC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:49:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <389a01cec068452f122cde5ca6966e43@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:55:27 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>but plan9 rc (9rc) thinks $0 is: >>/dev/stdin it's the name of the file (script) that rc is running, which isn't usually where-my-bin-is-today/rc itself on Plan 9, it's #d/0 From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 2 21:31:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 20:56:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c42d1864_849c_11d8_9e6b_00304828b574_14499; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F92344CDB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c3f77bb4_849c_11d8_90a2_00304828b574_14496; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 65A1B7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5F37580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c3bd043e_849c_11d8_81b9_00304828b574_14490; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B06C344CDB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:56:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c30f172a_849c_11d8_82a7_00304828b574_14486; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:56:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6246A19EDC; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F15CE19DF6; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:56:08 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2811619DF4; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB4E019D87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 06:55:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0e178c6c4f0b2720aa09d60075d1225c@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] APE select(2) In-Reply-To: <8810d7b486e1101e42a8165b766d6477@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:56:02 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/buf.prom might help, if it's reasonably consistent with the current implementation. From trickey@lucent.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 22:28:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ace2dd44_84a9_11d8_85d1_00304828b574_2625; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:28:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE839344D6E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aca78690_84a9_11d8_8d81_00304828b574_2621; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BAB757580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5837580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac68ec28_84a9_11d8_887c_00304828b574_2618; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215D344D6E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abac9b4a_84a9_11d8_8a5d_00304828b574_2613; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BCC6919B98; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:28:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED44219A8A; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:28:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34CFB19F1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:27:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail2.lucent.com [192.11.222.163]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B9CB19C27 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:27:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from nj9620exch001p.wins.lucent.com (h135-222-4-21.lucent.com [135.222.4.21]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id i32DRlc05153 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:27:48 -0600 (CST) Received: by nj9620exch001p.mh.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:27:47 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Trickey, Howard W (Howard)" To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] APE select(2) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:27:45 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I wrote the original APE select implementation, and the promela model below, but others have had their hands in it since, so it is likely that the promela model is out of date. With regards to the nfds test in the code given earlier, I agree that it seems that: if(nfds >= OPEN_MAX) nfds = OPEN_MAX-1; for(i = 0; i<= nfds; i++) should change to if(nfds > OPEN_MAX) nfds = OPEN_MAX; for(i = 0; i< nfds; i++) - Howard -----Original Message----- From: Charles Forsyth [mailto:forsyth@terzarima.net] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:56 AM To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] APE select(2) /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/buf.prom might help, if it's reasonably consistent with the current implementation. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Sat Apr 3 22:51:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 22:42:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9cb32986_84ab_11d8_8061_00304828b574_8005; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:42:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B763534415C for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:42:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9c823150_84ab_11d8_904d_00304828b574_7998; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:42:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 23FCF7580F9; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:42:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EAE27580FA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:42:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99fc7062_84ab_11d8_92b6_00304828b574_7970; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:42:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BD83441E5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:42:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93e2575a_84ab_11d8_97a4_00304828b574_7888; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:42:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D4CA19AC2; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 414E019F1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:42:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11D9E19C4C; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D336F19F1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:41:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i32DewD02086 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:40:59 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <25c7173cb159c70f2652fd026113def1@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] APE select(2) Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:40:37 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > With regards to the nfds test in the code given earlier, I agree that it seems that: > > if(nfds >= OPEN_MAX) > nfds = OPEN_MAX-1; > for(i = 0; i<= nfds; i++) > > should change to > > if(nfds > OPEN_MAX) > nfds = OPEN_MAX; > for(i = 0; i< nfds; i++) > Thanks, Howard, this improves things a little, enough to show promise. It also gives me the confidence that I'm not completely out of my depths. Now to do a little more digging. Promela, unfortunately, I am not at all familiar with, but this may be an occasion to catch up. ++L From rog@vitanuova.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 22:44:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7976760_84ab_11d8_99e4_00304828b574_8354; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545D3344196 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d74678be_84ab_11d8_881d_00304828b574_8348; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 446187580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC5B7580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:44:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d70f10e0_84ab_11d8_800e_00304828b574_8341; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:44:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E892344196 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:44:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d663b038_84ab_11d8_94ad_00304828b574_8337; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:44:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14A0F19F73; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:44:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E27C19F1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:44:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B01219F1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:43:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C9C719F4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:43:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3975dc26268439fd3e131812088febac@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] APE select(2) From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <25c7173cb159c70f2652fd026113def1@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:49:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Now to do a little more digging. Promela, unfortunately, I am not at > all familiar with, but this may be an occasion to catch up. it's well worth it. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 23:13:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea76c3fe_84af_11d8_8205_00304828b574_13613; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B0F344D8F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea40a080_84af_11d8_8237_00304828b574_13610; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0B4777580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:13:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B61177580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:13:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9ffce2a_84af_11d8_8d00_00304828b574_13604; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:13:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3318344D8F for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e950eb44_84af_11d8_8d2a_00304828b574_13599; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:13:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 27C1419F7B; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A658919DB5; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:13:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8652A19DB5; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:12:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 507BD19B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:12:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Terminal at 1400x1050 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:10:28 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > Moin, > > is anybody runnig a Terminal at 1400x1050. I can't find > a matching entry in /lib/vgadb. > > Matthias forgot to add -- if your monitor has a strange definition you can't find in /lib/vgadb, use xvidtune under X11 to find out the parameters for adding a new one... andrey From rsc@swtch.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 23:31:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 705d24de_84b2_11d8_8257_00304828b574_17408; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:31:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C289A34428A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7024d354_84b2_11d8_9c4b_00304828b574_17405; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A54EF7580FA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:31:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B677580F9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6fe0d820_84b2_11d8_8491_00304828b574_17401; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:31:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604C934428A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:31:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f304c94_84b2_11d8_981b_00304828b574_17397; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:31:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 209B819F4C; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89BE019F3B; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:31:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A21519F3E; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A8D219BA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:30:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EE124FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:30:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406D7906.3030701@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: , <406C1811.5030306@swtch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:30:30 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i would conjecture that we have not one, but two ''mk''. > one from mk-20040301.tgz that is of interest to a unix user that wants > a new ''make'', but is not interested in plan9. this mk does not need > to use ''rc''. these are the same mk, built from the same sources. > the other ''mk'' is the one in plan9-20040321.tar.gz. this mk will be > used by someone interested in plan9. i belive that this mk should use > rc. if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. in an ideal world, where there is more time for such things. it is slowly becoming stable enough. there is some funniness with process groups and backgrounded processes and interrupt notes that i have yet to work out, but otherwise it is now fine. > since it is never a good idea to have different commands with the same > name (provided we have the same context. in this case unix) i suggest > that one of the two mk are renamed. the one to rename, imho, is the > one that uses sh. possible names would be: smk, umk (or mks, mku). it's the same tool, just using a different shell. renaming it seems quite weird. should it read umkfile too? the last thing we need is for mk to bifurcate into odd variants just like make has. there is historical precedent for mk on unix using sh. i'm not claiming it should, just that it's not obviously wrong. there are non-plan 9 users who use mk on unix and expect it to use sh. telling them that all of a sudden they have to rename their mkfiles and start typing umk is odd. i have some ideas about how to solve the problem without splitting mk, but at the moment it's not very high on my list. the number of recipes i write that aren't simultaneously valid rc and valid sh is very small. russ From forsyth@vitanuova.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 2 23:48:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d07270f2_84b4_11d8_87df_00304828b574_20464; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092B1344DCB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d04131f4_84b4_11d8_8ae6_00304828b574_20461; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DF6627580FB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:48:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993497580FA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:48:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d002acea_84b4_11d8_99bb_00304828b574_20458; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:48:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A787D344DCB for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:48:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cf547aa8_84b4_11d8_87de_00304828b574_20450; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:48:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E58C019F6A; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2605519F54; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:48:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54FE119F65; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:47:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F0B319F54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:47:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <47b13c90345a68e5f6ff2eebc649c25c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <406D7906.3030701@swtch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:53:04 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: it's not unreasonably hard to write a mkfile that chooses between rules in sh syntax and rules in rc syntax based on a single parameter for the installation. it's a nuisance having to do it, but it does work reasonably well, and can be made easier to do by judicious use of `<' in the mkfiles. with some care (eg, with respect to choice of quoting rules) most rules that don't include loops can be the same for rc and sh. i maintain several packages across Plan 9 (rc), Unix (sh) and Windows (rcsh.exe) that way. it seems easier than having to have several files with similar contents but different names. From davel@anvil.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 00:57:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 728a32cc_84be_11d8_9f0a_00304828b574_3685; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA2D344E55 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7238d4d6_84be_11d8_845f_00304828b574_3682; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1FA967580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:57:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DA87580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:57:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71da8bd8_84be_11d8_8116_00304828b574_3679; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:57:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F1C344E55 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 710ecb2e_84be_11d8_9fed_00304828b574_3675; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F1C919DEB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE33019B37; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:57:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9687C19DEB; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:56:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DEF319ACD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:56:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id ADD7F349; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:55:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78958344 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:55:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22015 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:55:44 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-3JoS9AcbSGZiCFiG6qix" Message-Id: <1080918299.1704.1696.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Subject: [9fans] [Fwd: internet in the upper hall] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:04:59 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --=-3JoS9AcbSGZiCFiG6qix Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit YeeeHaw!!! (I was having a crap day until now:-~). Now I have to go haggle with my kid brother! Cheers, Dave. --=-3JoS9AcbSGZiCFiG6qix Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Forwarded message - internet in the upper hall Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from anvil.com (gatekeeper [192.168.4.253]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01291 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:25 +0100 (BST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id F2B312D9; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from uranium.btinternet.com (uranium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.89]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22572CA for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from [81.134.198.52] (helo=union3jyb188p1) by uranium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1B9Lg7-0004M8-00 for davel@anvil.com; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:13:35 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian" To: "'Dave Lukes'" Subject: internet in the upper hall Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:11:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c4189a$e2116ec0$0200a8c0@union3jyb188p1> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1078872604.1902.58.camel@rea> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Length: 323 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Further to our conversations about your may hire, I can get you a broadband connection in the upper hall - What price had we previously discussed? x A --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.615 / Virus Database: 394 - Release Date: 08/03/2004 --=-3JoS9AcbSGZiCFiG6qix-- From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 01:14:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4726066_84c0_11d8_8a4c_00304828b574_6678; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD389344E7E for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d441474c_84c0_11d8_8da4_00304828b574_6675; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8FCF67580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:14:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E437580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d40013da_84c0_11d8_8056_00304828b574_6672; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D55344E7E for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:14:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d352db70_84c0_11d8_9607_00304828b574_6668; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:14:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EA9919F9C; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:14:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66B8D19F6C; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:14:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AF4019F56; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17F8819DEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([217.207.176.114]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <313662-10520>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:11:28 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c418c4$8fd40530$0602a8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479D94@black.aprote.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Aniversary; request for guidance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:09:54 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > [=D1=8F] =D0=BD=D0=B5 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=8E =D0=BF= =D0=BE-=D1=80=D1=83=D1=81=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D0=B8 > > "[ya] nyeh..." is a reasonable approximation looks good to me. From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 3 22:51:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 01:28:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca29fc20_84c2_11d8_9886_00304828b574_11865; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6501C344154 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9f33438_84c2_11d8_8f7e_00304828b574_11862; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 537B17580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEA67580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9bc20ba_84c2_11d8_9a13_00304828b574_11859; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:28:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B80F344154 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:28:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c90e1a60_84c2_11d8_9ddb_00304828b574_11855; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:28:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4164219DC7; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:28:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDD2919F64; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEEE719D8A; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:27:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 560FF19BB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([217.207.176.114]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <334172-30217>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:26:04 -0500 Message-ID: <00a901c418c6$993f9a10$0602a8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <333e801f4f848cb3eadf4c91f713d224@snellwilcox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:24:30 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I'am afraid Byron made some changes from (the one true ?) rc yes, in the 'general case' a plan 9 rc script will break on byron's rc. as russ said: 'if not' being replace by 'else' was a bad idea. From micah@cnm-vra.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 06:27:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f03a798_84ec_11d8_8556_00304828b574_7794; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141F8344FDA for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ed3672c_84ec_11d8_8af5_00304828b574_7791; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EC1EC7580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:27:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13A87580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e930ec0_84ec_11d8_96aa_00304828b574_7788; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16B1344FDA for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8de5d232_84ec_11d8_9ee8_00304828b574_7784; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E72A719F9F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:27:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 37AD3199EE; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:27:12 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FBB719FA3; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from epaphras.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5667B199EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:26:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by epaphras.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 867B88E; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:26:22 -0800 (PST) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20040402212622.GA10241@epaphras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [9fans] Permissions question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:26:22 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Could somebody enlighten me? Why doesn't this work: term% ls -l --rwxrwxr-x M 9 micah none 0 Apr 2 16:19 file term% auth/none rc -c 'echo foo >file' file: rc: can't open: permission denied term% What's wrong? Micah From micah@cnm-vra.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 06:35:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa5d9d4a_84ed_11d8_855d_00304828b574_9124; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F37344FE9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa2de726_84ed_11d8_8c91_00304828b574_9121; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 56B067580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1E57580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9eef084_84ed_11d8_94c2_00304828b574_9118; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200CD344FE9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:35:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a942f13a_84ed_11d8_9e70_00304828b574_9114; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:35:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DF6F19FAA; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57A72199B6; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:35:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 76C9419E5C; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:34:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from epaphras.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86544199B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:34:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by epaphras.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 22B2F8E; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:34:08 -0800 (PST) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Permissions question Message-ID: <20040402213408.GB10241@epaphras> References: <20040402212622.GA10241@epaphras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040402212622.GA10241@epaphras> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:34:08 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Could somebody enlighten me? Why doesn't this work: Sorry about that, I found it in the docs... Micah From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 3 22:51:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 07:45:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70fc7076_84f7_11d8_8e06_00304828b574_24518; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C250345021 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70c423e2_84f7_11d8_8e96_00304828b574_24515; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F2F2E7580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:45:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878A57580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 706ebe5c_84f7_11d8_94e5_00304828b574_24512; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967DF345021 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:45:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6fc06528_84f7_11d8_9f33_00304828b574_24508; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40F6F19FB6; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:45:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFBFC19C1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A15519C1F; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:44:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs01-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 105AE19DB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([217.207.176.114]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3829494-10454>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:43:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c418fa$c12f4e10$0602a8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1080918299.1704.1696.camel@rea> Subject: Re: [9fans] [Fwd: internet in the upper hall] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:56:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Now I have to go haggle with my kid brother! what, 'e won't haggle? From brucee@chunder.com Sat Apr 3 22:51:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 19:18:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 444a012c_8558_11d8_9de7_00304828b574_12132; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:18:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5570A344B08 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:18:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44183386_8558_11d8_8f7c_00304828b574_12129; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:18:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3BCD47580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:18:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77F17580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:18:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43dabf92_8558_11d8_9bba_00304828b574_12126; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:18:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B37344B08 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:18:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 432b6498_8558_11d8_8282_00304828b574_12122; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:18:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3EEA319B18; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 04:45:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5FE719A75; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 04:45:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C367B19C03; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 04:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 69F7319B5C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 04:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 14429 invoked by uid 89); 3 Apr 2004 09:27:36 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-173.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.173) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2004 09:27:36 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c4195e$d7a21380$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] maybe ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:29:02 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i'll be in london if qantas get's off their collective qantas' and finds me a flight. please have a grog for dhog, even if i don't arrive. it's approx one year since we last heard from him. he was a pleasure to work with and i had a very fine thai duck salad in bondi tonight - thai thai in sterling was the only decent place open on mondays for lunch from murray hill, and we often partook 3 times a week. tuesday's was at the alley - so a Bass, Murphy's or a Beck's Dark will be a fine remembrance. brucee From boyd@insultant.net Sun Apr 4 11:36:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 3 23:10:06 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9baaabcc_8578_11d8_861c_00304828b574_28126; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:10:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05513441CB for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:10:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b70a83c_8578_11d8_829c_00304828b574_28122; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:10:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4F7ED7580FA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:10:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0F77580F9 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:10:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99966470_8578_11d8_8bc1_00304828b574_28050; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:10:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75040344202 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:09:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 847cb40e_8578_11d8_89bc_00304828b574_27722; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:09:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EB1A19C81; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:09:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E477719BE9; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:09:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3CE3D19B6B; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E26EB19BFA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from SOMA ([217.207.176.114]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <336174-25233>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:05:33 -0500 Message-ID: <00b701c4197c$22506630$0602a8c0@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003201c4195e$d7a21380$8201a8c0@cc77109e> Subject: Re: [9fans] maybe ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:03:58 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > please have a grog for dhog, even if i don't arrive. i'm sure that can be organised. From bwc@coraid.com Sun Apr 4 11:36:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 01:32:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82cc2ba8_858c_11d8_8989_00304828b574_23135; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079F1344D76 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 829714cc_858c_11d8_8bca_00304828b574_23132; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E54497580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DC37580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 823a0282_858c_11d8_9d55_00304828b574_23129; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E42344D76 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 818bae58_858c_11d8_846e_00304828b574_23124; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C752E19CF4; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 546D519CCF; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:32:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0334919CDB; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:31:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 912E219CCA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:31:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brantley Coile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] How to over ride /mail/box/bwc/headers file with Acme/Mail? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:29:49 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I put `From: bwc@prepaynt.com' for example right after the To: line in the Mail window in acme, but both that and the From: line from the headers file in my mail/box directory shows up. How to I keep that from happening? Or am I the odd man again? Thanks Brantley From bwc@coraid.com Sun Apr 4 11:36:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 01:32:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88d5fdda_858c_11d8_84d0_00304828b574_23148; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB73344D76 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88a5651c_858c_11d8_9860_00304828b574_23145; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EF3FD7580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E827580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 882fecd8_858c_11d8_9146_00304828b574_23142; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7627A344D76 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:32:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87825460_858c_11d8_8a64_00304828b574_23138; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:32:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B45DF19CCF; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21FF219CD9; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:32:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69A7F19CD9; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C588F19CCA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:31:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <632c9d244161c9c33da4c284a606755f@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Brantley Coile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Got cert chain working Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:27:50 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Thanks to all that helped. I don't know who to coordinate the changes with. I don't know enough about TLS to take the whole thing on. Brantley From kristian@phase-space.net Sun Apr 4 11:36:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 01:53:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71f8c02c_858f_11d8_83bd_00304828b574_28269; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE80344249 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71c7c12a_858f_11d8_9fc8_00304828b574_28265; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3FF77758100; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:53:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61DE758106 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:53:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f7d3436_858f_11d8_80e0_00304828b574_28236; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44270344269 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:50:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02c5b980_858f_11d8_8f73_00304828b574_26746; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:50:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24F1E19CE6; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 884D219BFE; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:50:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 964F419CE6; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:49:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from toneburst.phase-space.net (metronomic.phase-space.net [64.81.227.234]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86C3D19B9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:49:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from phase-space.net ([192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by toneburst.phase-space.net (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i33GhEog008987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:43:16 -0600 Message-ID: <406EEB0D.9090205@phase-space.net> From: Kristian A Hahn User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040215) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <004501c40d66$8e208e20$c6dd7d50@SOMA> In-Reply-To: <004501c40d66$8e208e20$c6dd7d50@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] links undefined? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:49:17 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, I've run in to some trouble attemtping to set up a cpu/auth server. I followed the instructions given in the wiki and everything worked fine, however the base configuration doesn't include support for my NIC. I added the corresponding entry : ether2114x pci to pcauth but notice that ether2114x.c is never built during the compile and the .8 isn't included in the link so the build fails with lines like: links: undefined: ether2144xlink in links If I remove the 2114x entry, the build completes normally. I pulled the latest sources, copied them over and tried again with ether2114x but it still fails. I checked 9fans and found that someone encountered a similar problem last year but their issue was resolved offline. Can someone tell me what the problem might be? I'll post my pcauth and/or compile log if needed. Thanks, Kristian From rsc@swtch.com Sun Apr 4 11:36:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 02:22:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b94e63e_8593_11d8_9019_00304828b574_1671; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:22:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374C33442C0 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 02:22:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b45086c_8593_11d8_8d62_00304828b574_1664; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:22:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1BE307580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 02:22:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5707580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 02:22:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b0ae056_8593_11d8_8e2b_00304828b574_1661; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:22:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A4C3442C0 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 02:22:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79eaea2c_8593_11d8_9e1c_00304828b574_1657; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:22:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 883A719D08; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D46319CF1; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:22:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49FDA19CCA; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:21:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6A9E19B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F74824FE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:21:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406EF278.7000404@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How to over ride /mail/box/bwc/headers file with Acme/Mail? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 12:20:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Brantley Coile wrote: >I put `From: bwc@prepaynt.com' for example right after the To: line >in the Mail window in acme, but both that and the From: line from >the headers file in my mail/box directory shows up. How to I keep that >from happening? Or am I the odd man again? > > You can't override /mail/box/$user/headers. They're always added. I'm surprised that both showed up in your mail. Acme Mail used to rewrite From: as To: (to handle the case where you reply by just editing the original message and click Post). I thought it still did. I used to use the following pipefrom to change my From: line on outgoing mail based on who it was going to, so that for example mail to anyone at *.mit.edu would be from rsc@mit.edu. This generally reduced confusion for receivers, and it was much easier than having to change my From: address in every message (like I used to do with mh on Unix). I haven't found a good way to do this with my current mail reader (thunderbird on Unix) so now all my mail says rsc@swtch.com. If a message was being sent in reply to another message, the script used the To: address on the original, assuming it was one of my aliases. This worked well for replying to 9trouble mail from 9trouble rather than from rsc. One feature that would be easy to add is that if one of my aliases is named explicitly as a destination, the from address should be that one. You could also have your own header that pipefrom notices, obeys, and removes. This should give you ideas, at least. Russ #!/bin/rc rfork ne # options opt=() while (! ~ $#* 0 && ~ $1 -*) { opt=($opt $1); shift } # change from address based on destination fromaddr=rsc from='Russ Cox' # fortune=`{fortune | sed 's:\\:\\\\:g' | tr -d "} # fortune=$"fortune # "All your mail looks like spam." # from=$fortune # I replaced the @s with %s on general principle for posting to 9fans. # If replying, use the address the sender used. if(~ $#replymsg 1){ for (i in `{cat $replymsg/to | tr A-Z a-z}){ switch($i){ case rsc%plan9.bell-labs.com rsc%research.bell-labs.com \ rsc%post.harvard.edu rsc%eecs.harvard.edu\ rsc%mit.edu rsc%lcs.mit.edu rsc%pdos.lcs.mit.edu \ rsc%amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu rsc%delbarton.org \ rsc%sagamore6.net russ%sagamore6.net \ 9trouble%plan9.bell-labs.com \ questions%ace.delos.com \ question%ace.delos.com fromaddr=$i } } } # try not to use eecs in case i get axed if(~ $fromaddr rsc%eecs.harvard.edu) fromaddr=rsc%post.harvard.edu to=() torsc=no for(i in $*){ if(~ $i rsc%*) torsc=yes if not to=($to $i) if(~ $fromaddr rsc) switch(`{echo $i | tr A-Z a-z}){ case *harvard.edu *deshaw.com fromaddr=rsc%post.harvard.edu case *mit.edu fromaddr=rsc%mit.edu } } # Default. if(~ $fromaddr rsc) fromaddr=rsc%swtch.com if(~ $torsc yes) to=($to $fromaddr) upasname=$fromaddr sed ' 1,/^$/s"^From: \"Russ Cox\" "From: \"'$from'\" <'$fromaddr'>" ' | upas/send $opt $to rsc/out%plan9.bell-labs.com # 1i\ # X-Plan9-Fortune: '$fortune' From rsc@swtch.com Sun Apr 4 11:36:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 03:16:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06665610_859b_11d8_907e_00304828b574_11732; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48C2344179 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 063570f4_859b_11d8_81fd_00304828b574_11728; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F250E758106; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:16:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428977580FB for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:16:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 041a7bfc_859b_11d8_9069_00304828b574_11699; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:16:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D2B344179 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9bb8a2aa_859a_11d8_867c_00304828b574_10196; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 088F919CF1; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F1E519CAB; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:13:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1611019CDE; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1592519BC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:12:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA7424FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:12:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <406EFE6A.40407@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] links undefined? References: <004501c40d66$8e208e20$c6dd7d50@SOMA> <406EEB0D.9090205@phase-space.net> In-Reply-To: <406EEB0D.9090205@phase-space.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:11:54 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Kristian A Hahn wrote: > Hello, > > I've run in to some trouble attemtping to set up a cpu/auth server. I > followed the instructions given in the wiki and everything worked fine, > however the base configuration doesn't include support for my NIC. I > added the corresponding entry : > > ether2114x pci > > to pcauth but notice that ether2114x.c is never built during the compile > and the .8 isn't included in the link so the build fails with lines like: > > links: undefined: ether2144xlink in links > > If I remove the 2114x entry, the build completes normally. I pulled the > latest sources, copied them over and tried again with ether2114x but it > still fails. I checked 9fans and found that someone encountered a > similar problem last year but their issue was resolved offline. Can > someone tell me what the problem might be? I'll post my pcauth and/or > compile log if needed. Try running mk clean and try again. It's possible that your clock is set funny and there are "very new" old files lying around messing things up. Also make sure that the line begins with a tab not with spaces, though I don't think that matters. From kristian@phase-space.net Sun Apr 4 11:36:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 03:44:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa524f92_859e_11d8_9aa5_00304828b574_17592; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:44:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7953442F6 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:44:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9ad64dc_859e_11d8_8b03_00304828b574_17580; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:44:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3B737580FC; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:44:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBDA7580FB for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:44:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9010c6e_859e_11d8_8f06_00304828b574_17576; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:44:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF911344343 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:44:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eee0f4d8_859e_11d8_89c0_00304828b574_17449; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:44:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E48919D62; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:44:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D061C19D35; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:44:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B35B19A8E; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:43:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from toneburst.phase-space.net (metronomic.phase-space.net [64.81.227.234]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EE7519CDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from phase-space.net ([192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by toneburst.phase-space.net (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i33IawVM009127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:36:59 -0600 Message-ID: <406F05B6.1020300@phase-space.net> From: Kristian A Hahn User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040215) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] links undefined? References: <004501c40d66$8e208e20$c6dd7d50@SOMA> <406EEB0D.9090205@phase-space.net> <406EFE6A.40407@swtch.com> In-Reply-To: <406EFE6A.40407@swtch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 12:43:02 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Thanks! That fixed it. Apparently it does matter. -- Kristian > > Also make sure that the line begins with a tab > not with spaces, though I don't think that matters. From kyran@null.net Sun Apr 4 11:36:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 06:42:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca4ee882_85b7_11d8_9396_00304828b574_21455; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:42:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE84344435 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:42:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca1c86bc_85b7_11d8_9af8_00304828b574_21452; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:42:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 41FC47580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:42:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFFA7580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9dcd49a_85b7_11d8_8c72_00304828b574_21449; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C4344435 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c926470c_85b7_11d8_9690_00304828b574_21445; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1489519CB5; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:42:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED60019B1F; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:42:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A810319CD9; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4418019CAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 5CFE71800D2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:41:06 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.178) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 3 Apr 2004 21:40:05 -0000 Received: by ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4B6ED790059; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:41:06 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [207.237.218.21] by ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com with http for kyran@null.net; Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:41:06 -0500 From: "Kiran Pamnany" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Originating-Ip: 207.237.218.21 X-Originating-Server: ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20040403214106.4B6ED790059@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: [9fans] Request Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:41:06 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, I'm looking for a paper that was released with the second edition of Plan 9. A while ago. It was on the panel library. If I remember it right, it discussed some interesting layout automating ideas, which I wanted to experiment with. So, if anyone has this paper, could they do me the favor of emailing it to me? I'm not subscribed to this list, so please reply to my email: kyran at null dot net. Thanks in advance :-) K -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From rminnich@lanl.gov Sun Apr 4 11:36:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 10:59:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7e4f032_85db_11d8_9655_00304828b574_7367; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB5A34461F for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7b350f4_85db_11d8_9d9c_00304828b574_7364; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3E4867580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:59:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36307580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b75b183a_85db_11d8_9345_00304828b574_7361; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1DB034461F for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b6accf0a_85db_11d8_9b1e_00304828b574_7357; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DFCC19D58; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:59:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E576819D17; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:59:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D179D19CE1; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:58:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EB3F19CA6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i341wNik026879 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:58:23 -0700 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i341wMdo006855 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:58:22 -0700 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i341wLwO010809 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:58:22 -0700 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:58:20 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Darwin Ronald-Minnichs-Computer.local 7.2.0 Darwin Kernel Version 7.2.0: Thu Dec 11 16:20:23 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc This is Panther. works ok until emu starts, the emu goes to pieces with stuff like this: malloc failed from 4b70c arena main too large: size 64 cursize 3563808 arenasize 33554432 maxsize 33554432 and so on. If I start emu it gets SIGBUS. Anyone seen this? ron From six@stalphonsos.com Sun Apr 4 23:46:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 12:04:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccc5eb10_85e4_11d8_89dd_00304828b574_20287; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:04:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854AA3445A6 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:04:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cbc93550_85e4_11d8_8c74_00304828b574_20276; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0C3D17580FF; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:04:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB93B7580FB for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:04:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb4e015a_85e4_11d8_92ca_00304828b574_20270; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:04:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CD13445A6 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9cf3420_85e4_11d8_82b7_00304828b574_20249; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:04:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4EC19D5A; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:04:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E66D419D4D; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:04:09 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D54419D18; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from agrun.stalphonsos.com (unknown [63.163.82.54]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4343819CA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 3133 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Apr 2004 03:03:57 -0000 From: Number Six To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... Message-ID: <20040404030357.GA14523@stalphonsos.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:03:35 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 06:58:20PM -0700, ron minnich wrote: > works ok until emu starts, the emu goes to pieces with stuff like this: > malloc failed from 4b70c > arena main too large: size 64 cursize 3563808 arenasize 33554432 maxsize > 33554432 > > and so on. If I start emu it gets SIGBUS. > > Anyone seen this? > Something's bolloxed in the VN emu binary for macos. You need Jeff Sickel's emu. See: #6 From forsyth@terzarima.net Sun Apr 4 23:46:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 15:59:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0b1c442_8605_11d8_8643_00304828b574_1739; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475F43443A7 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a07c5d84_8605_11d8_8418_00304828b574_1736; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 30CD37580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:59:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2307580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a04168e6_8605_11d8_8888_00304828b574_1732; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6903443A7 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f931b7e_8605_11d8_999f_00304828b574_1728; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7096D19D26; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AE9C19D26; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C460A19D26; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:58:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 760FE19CCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:58:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61426da3fa504b29df4e539570e56b00@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20040404030357.GA14523@stalphonsos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 07:56:32 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>Something's bolloxed in the VN emu binary for macos. You need Jeff >>Sickel's emu. See: i suspected it was just old. we ship what we last got from him. (unless i failed to copy it in correctly, which could happen.) From geoff@collyer.net Sun Apr 4 23:46:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 19:09:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ab17c90_8620_11d8_8399_00304828b574_9017; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:09:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B244D344A8E for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a7c0402_8620_11d8_8d37_00304828b574_9014; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9F8237580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:09:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E737580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a437704_8620_11d8_9d9a_00304828b574_9011; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6816C344A8E for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:09:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2996971e_8620_11d8_9c1d_00304828b574_9007; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:09:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40D4319C0D; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADFA019D3A; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:09:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41DBD19C71; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA26B19BDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87c5f336df7c7d902bc404eb6849d70a@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <61426da3fa504b29df4e539570e56b00@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 03:08:35 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I had the JIT working and Vitanuova have my changes. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Sun Apr 4 23:46:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 21:19:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52f0e01c_8632_11d8_8805_00304828b574_3511; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376AC344B81 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52c02f9e_8632_11d8_995a_00304828b574_3508; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 192E47580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:19:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58D07580F9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52806a9e_8632_11d8_97bd_00304828b574_3505; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D420F344B81 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:19:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51d264c6_8632_11d8_8ac3_00304828b574_3501; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B8A3C19D20; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0633319C0D; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:19:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24AAC19CD4; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 256F519C0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i34CHAD21472 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:17:18 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <9e96defca06300898e6dbb266bbccfad@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Request Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <20040403214106.4B6ED790059@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:16:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I'm looking for a paper that was released with the > second edition of Plan 9. A while ago. It was on the > panel library. I have /sys/doc/panel/panel.ps by Tom Duff. If there is no licencing problem with it, I can mail it to you. Of course, you may want to try other sources. ++L From jas@corpus-callosum.com Sun Apr 4 23:46:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 4 23:36:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77ab39e4_8645_11d8_9880_00304828b574_1509; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4088E344184 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77773a5e_8645_11d8_8812_00304828b574_1503; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A80F57580FA; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:36:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85550758104 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:36:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75d86aec_8645_11d8_91eb_00304828b574_1491; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:36:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6778F3441D3 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73dd84f2_8645_11d8_9bb2_00304828b574_1462; Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E49A119DE0; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31FDA19D9A; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96D8319D9A; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com (ip-216-36-98-130.dsl.chi.megapath.net [216.36.98.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71FD319D01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i34EZ4fK080320 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:35:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <87c5f336df7c7d902bc404eb6849d70a@collyer.net> References: <87c5f336df7c7d902bc404eb6849d70a@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <400B4FB2-8645-11D8-AE2C-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:34:59 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've never had the JIT working. And though Charles sent me a snapshot of Geoff's changes at one point for V3, I either missed the JIT portion when merging the code lines or something else changed when moving to gcc 3.3 with the latest OS X. I'd be happy to comb back over the source to finally get the JIT working for version 4 (and submit an audio driver as well). jas On Apr 4, 2004, at 5:08 AM, Geoff Collyer wrote: > I had the JIT working and Vitanuova have my changes. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Mon Apr 5 16:06:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 05:49:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91942fee_8679_11d8_94ab_00304828b574_12934; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C33B34519E for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91620c9e_8679_11d8_88f0_00304828b574_12931; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71DF27580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01137580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9107d9b8_8679_11d8_9056_00304828b574_12928; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0988E34519E for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 90593ade_8679_11d8_86e7_00304828b574_12924; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9624219B3A; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80DAC19C3C; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DF9E19BB9; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EEFD19AC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35bd6101f825f6f5be74ef5a2f0b6c9a@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: salomo3@cooper.edu, kyran@null.net Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Request From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <3794.199.98.20.226.1081108688.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:45:01 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/who/rsc/panel.pdf that web page doesn't exist anymore... curious why... what works for the pdf is: rhome% 9fs sources post... rhome% page /n/sources/contrib/mothra/libpanel/panel.pdf reading through pdf... won't help you much if you don't have plan9 installed, but you can download the 'Sources Extra' iso image from the Additional Software section on http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist.. you'll find libpanel there. andrey From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 5 16:06:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 08:01:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff398398_868b_11d8_87d4_00304828b574_8519; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC6B344447 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fefae6ec_868b_11d8_88fa_00304828b574_8516; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 421AC7580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:01:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D807580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id feb6a28e_868b_11d8_8e6c_00304828b574_8513; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B0B344447 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe01541a_868b_11d8_8341_00304828b574_8509; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB5F219E24; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 02EE919E22; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4994719E18; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3FF819E1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <400B4FB2-8645-11D8-AE2C-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:00:10 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It's been a while, but I think the important changes were to zero some registers at start-up and maybe later too. I'll see if I can find them. From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 5 16:06:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 11:18:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95dae6e6_86a7_11d8_8d78_00304828b574_22207; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:18:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5075E344B7D for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:18:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95801630_86a7_11d8_9971_00304828b574_22204; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:18:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 32B127580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:18:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C7A7580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:18:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 951971f0_86a7_11d8_9431_00304828b574_22201; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:18:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBEDB344B7D for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:18:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93e4ec24_86a7_11d8_9de3_00304828b574_22197; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:18:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C67E319E30; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D482019E44; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CFAF19E41; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA02419E3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b0cd52cf8dc7d7c7727f39eee7e4be5@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qedcifnupyofifwebpwrlfhpru" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:17:41 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qedcifnupyofifwebpwrlfhpru Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It looks like my modified 3e comp-power.c didn't make it into Vitanuova's tree. I added code to generate instructions to zero R0: ; grep -ni 'set r0 to 0' `{files | grep '\.[cshy]$'} ./interp/comp-power.c:682: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ ./interp/comp-power.c:1550: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ ./interp/comp-power.c:1589: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ ./interp/comp-power.c:1742: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ ./interp/comp-power.c:1778: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ ./interp/comp-power.c:1816: AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to 0 */ but these don't appear in December's preliminary 4e tree: ; cd /i/libinterp; grep -i airr comp-power.c | grep -i rzero AIRR(Oaddis, reg,Rzero,c>>16); AIRR(Oaddi, reg, Rzero, c); AIRR(Oaddis, reg,Rzero,c>>16); AIRR(Ostw, Rzero, Rreg,O(REG,st)); AIRR(Ostw, Rzero, Ro1,O(Frame,mr)); // Ro1->mr = nil Adding these instructions made the JIT start working on OS X. Quoting some mail from Charles about why the `zero R0' instructions are necessary: i decided to define R0==0 in the Inferno compilers ([...]). the run time start up code and the native kernel load R0 with 0 once or twice and keep it there. that could be done in preamble(). i haven't got my powepc handbook here, but i think this will do that much: s = code = malloc(PREFLEN*sizeof(*code)); ldc((ulong)&R, Rreg); AIRR(Oaddi, Rzero, 0, 0); /* set R0 to zero */ in fact you need to add that line after every ldc((ulong)&R, Rreg); in punt, and several mac*, so that the zero value is reset after every call out to C code. I'll send my comp-power.c to Charles and Jeff Sickel. I'll keep looking through my changes, but I'm pretty sure that this is the one that matters. Speaking of changes getting missed, I've attached a bundle of a program that I use a lot when merging trees. It sounds dangerous, but it's pretty cautious and I've used it for years without trouble. Given an original tree and a modified tree, cd into the modified tree (or a copy thereof if you want to preserve the modified tree), and run diff -rw /original/tree . >/tmp/diffs rmsame /original/tree This removes all empty directories and all files in the current tree that exactly match files in /original/tree. (One could argue that it should remove the matching contents of the argument tree instead, but this is the way it's always been. There may be a small performance advantage to removing using relative path names in the current tree.) Obvious attempts to shoot yourself in the foot, such as `rmsame .' and `rmsame `{pwd}' are rejected. The reason to run diff -r first is to see if any files in the original tree had been removed from the modified tree, if you care. One can then prowl the remaining degenerate tree with acme or cd and remove files as they are merged (or rejected) into the original tree. --upas-qedcifnupyofifwebpwrlfhpru Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=rmsame.bun Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # To unbundle, run this file mkdir rmsame echo rmsame/Makefile sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/Makefile <<'!' OS=3Do8v O=3Do CFLAGS=3D-O -w -D_BSD_EXTENSION -D_POSIX_SOURCE DESTDIR=3D$(HOME)/bin/$(objtype) CC=3Dcc LD=3Dcc all: rmsame rmsame: rmsame.$O cleanname.$O X $(CC) -o $@ $(CFLAGS) rmsame.$O cleanname.$O install: rmsame X cp rmsame $(DESTDIR) X cp -x rmsame.man $(HOME)/man/1/rmsame clean: X rm -f core make.log rmsame *.[$(OS)] ! echo rmsame/README sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/README <<'!' cleanname.c is a Plan 9 source file, so cleanname.NOTICE and cleanname.LICENSE apply to it. The terms are fairly liberal; you may redistribute it, modify it or sell it, but read the terms to be certain. ! echo rmsame/cleanname.LICENSE sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/cleanname.LICENSE <<'!' The Plan 9 software is provided under the terms of the Lucent Public License, Version 1.02, reproduced below, with the following exceptions: 1. No right is granted to create derivative works of or X to redistribute (other than with the Plan 9 Operating System) X the screen imprinter fonts identified in subdirectory X /lib/font/bit/lucida and printer fonts (Lucida Sans Unicode, Lucida X Sans Italic, Lucida Sans Demibold, Lucida Typewriter, Lucida Sans X Typewriter83), identified in subdirectory /sys/lib/postscript/font. X These directories contain material copyrights by B&H Inc. and Y&Y Inc= . 2. The printer fonts identified in subdirectory /sys/lib/ghostscript/font X are subject to the GNU GPL, reproduced in the file /LICENSE.gpl. 3. 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No party to this Agreement will bring a legal action under this Agreement more than one year after the cause of action arose. Each party waives its rights to a jury trial in any resulting litigation. ! echo rmsame/cleanname.NOTICE sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/cleanname.NOTICE <<'!' Copyright =C2=A9 2002 Lucent Technologies Inc. All Rights Reserved ! echo rmsame/cleanname.c sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/cleanname.c <<'!' X/* X * In place, rewrite name to compress multiple /, eliminate ., and proce= ss .. X */ X#define SEP(x) ((x)=3D=3D'/' || (x) =3D=3D 0) char* cleanname(char *name) X{ X char *p, *q, *dotdot; X int rooted; X rooted =3D name[0] =3D=3D '/'; X /* X * invariants: X * p points at beginning of path element we're considering. X * q points just past the last path element we wrote (no slash). X * dotdot points just past the point where .. cannot backtrack X * any further (no slash). X */ X p =3D q =3D dotdot =3D name+rooted; X while(*p) { X if(p[0] =3D=3D '/') /* null element */ X p++; X else if(p[0] =3D=3D '.' && SEP(p[1])) X p +=3D 1; /* don't count the separator in case it is nul */ X else if(p[0] =3D=3D '.' && p[1] =3D=3D '.' && SEP(p[2])) { X p +=3D 2; X if(q > dotdot) { /* can backtrack */ X while(--q > dotdot && *q !=3D '/') X ; X } else if(!rooted) { /* /.. is / but ./../ is .. */ X if(q !=3D name) X *q++ =3D '/'; X *q++ =3D '.'; X *q++ =3D '.'; X dotdot =3D q; X } X } else { /* real path element */ X if(q !=3D name+rooted) X *q++ =3D '/'; X while((*q =3D *p) !=3D '/' && *q !=3D 0) X p++, q++; X } X } X if(q =3D=3D name) /* empty string is really ``.'' */ X *q++ =3D '.'; X *q =3D '\0'; X return name; X} ! echo rmsame/mkfile sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/mkfile <<'!' Xrmsame/rmsame.c <<'!' X/* X * rmsame [-npsv] directory - remove files in . identical to those in di= rectory. X * X * rmsame recursively descends the current directory subtree and X * removes any files that are identical to files present in the X * comparison directory. rmsame refuses to "rmsame ." ("rm -rf ." is X * faster and has the same effect). symbolic links to directories are X * not followed. In cases of doubt, the file is left alone. X * X * changed to read an entire directory's contents first, then process fi= les, X * instead of reading one directory entry and then processing it. X * by Geoff Collyer, April 1996 X * Copyright (C) 1986,1987 Ron Wessels X * based on a shell script by Geoff Collyer X * X * Permission is hereby granted for general usage and re-distribution of X * this program as long as: X * a) it is not sold for profit X * b) the author's name and this notice remain intact in the program X */ X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#define STREQ(a, b) (*(a) =3D=3D *(b) && strcmp(a, b) =3D=3D 0) X#define SAMEFILE(stp1, stp2) ((stp1)->st_dev =3D=3D (stp2)->st_dev && \ X (stp1)->st_ino =3D=3D (stp2)->st_ino) X#ifdef S_IFLNK X#define STAT lstat X#else X#define STAT stat X#endif /* S_IFLNK */ X#ifndef MAXPATHLEN X#define MAXPATHLEN 1024 X#endif enum { X Differ =3D 0, X Same, X Missing, X Ignore, X /* X * size of comparison buffers: too large means reading blocks X * unnecessarily when files differ early on; too small means X * many reads when files are identical. X */ X Bufsize =3D 4*1024, X}; extern char* cleanname(char*); char *argv0 =3D "rmsame"; typedef struct stat Stat; typedef struct dirent Dirent; typedef struct dirname Dirname; struct dirname { X char *name; X Dirname *next; X}; static char cmpfile[MAXPATHLEN+1]; X/* X * holds full path of current directory at all times. X * used for error messages, not traversal. X */ static char fullcurrdir[MAXPATHLEN+1]; X/* X * always contains current directory, but may be just the name of the la= st X * component or may be the full path, depending upon the slow flag. X */ static char currdir[MAXPATHLEN+1]; static Stat filestat, cmpstat; X/* X * Execution flags. X */ static int verbose =3D 0; /* print out progress */ X/* X * don't use ".."; no longer needed on Plan 9 & X * probably only rarely needed on Unix X */ static int slow =3D 0; static int prdiff, prsame, dontrm; static void rmsame(void); static int cmpplain(char *file1name, char *file2name); static int iscurrdir(char *dir, Stat *dotstp) X{ X Stat stbuf; X Stat *dstp =3D &stbuf; X return stat(dir, dstp) >=3D 0 && SAMEFILE(dotstp, dstp); X} static int chgdir(char *dir) X{ X int ret =3D chdir(dir); X if (ret < 0) { X perror(dir); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: chdir(%s) in %s\n", X argv0, dir, fullcurrdir); X } X return ret; X} static void setup(char *dirname) X{ X /* X * Get an absolute path for the comparison directory, X * and make sure it is not ".". X */ X if (stat(".", &filestat) < 0) { X perror("."); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: stat of . at start\n", argv0); X exit(2); X } X if (verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "getting current directory\n"); X if (getcwd(currdir, sizeof currdir) =3D=3D NULL) { X /* sometimes life is just too complex for getcwd */ X char *pwd =3D getenv("PWD"); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: getcwd failed\n", argv0, pwd, currdir); X if (pwd !=3D NULL && iscurrdir(pwd, &filestat)) { X strncpy(currdir, pwd, sizeof currdir); X /* getcwd may have changed curr. dir. */ X if (chgdir(pwd) < 0) X exit(1); X } else { X fprintf(stderr, "%s: can't get current dir.\n", argv0); X exit(1); X } X } X strcpy(fullcurrdir, currdir); X cmpfile[0] =3D '\0'; X if (dirname[0] !=3D '/') { X strcat(cmpfile, currdir); X strcat(cmpfile, "/"); X } X strcat(cmpfile, dirname); X cleanname(cmpfile); X if (stat(cmpfile, &cmpstat) < 0) { X perror(cmpfile); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: stat(%s) in %s\n", X argv0, fullcurrdir, cmpfile, fullcurrdir); X exit(1); X } X if ((cmpstat.st_mode&S_IFMT) !=3D S_IFDIR) { X fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s is not a directory\n", argv0, cmpfile); X exit(1); X } X if (SAMEFILE(&filestat, &cmpstat)) { X fprintf(stderr, "%s: directory is \".\"\n", argv0); X exit(1); X } X} main(int argc, char *argv[]) X{ X int opt, errflag =3D 0; X if (argc > 0) X argv0 =3D argv[0]; X while ((opt =3D getopt(argc, argv, "npsv")) !=3D EOF) { X switch (opt) { X case 'n': X dontrm =3D prdiff =3D 1; X break; X case 'p': X dontrm =3D prsame =3D 1; X break; X case 's': X slow++; /* but robust */ X break; X case 'v': X verbose++; X break; X case '?': X default: X errflag++; X break; X } X } X if (errflag || optind !=3D argc - 1) { X fprintf(stderr, "Usage: %s [-npsv] directory\n", argv0); X exit(1); X } X if (!dontrm) X setbuf(stdout, (char *)NULL); X setup(argv[optind]); X if (verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "beginning descent\n"); X rmsame(); X exit(0); X return 0; X} static int dispose(char *compname, int same) X{ X int ret =3D 0; X if (dontrm) { X if (prdiff && (same =3D=3D Differ || Same =3D=3D Missing) || X prsame && same =3D=3D Same) { X printf("%s\n", cmpfile); X fflush(stdout); X } X } else if (same =3D=3D Same) { X ret =3D unlink(compname); X if (ret < 0) { X perror(compname); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: unlink(%s) in %s\n", X argv0, compname, fullcurrdir); X } else if (verbose) X printf("rm %s\n", compname); X } X return ret; X} X/* X * Symbolic link data. X */ X#ifdef S_IFLNK static char filelink[MAXNAMLEN], cmplink[MAXNAMLEN]; static int filecount, cmpcount; X#endif typedef struct { X Dirname *dirnm; X int opened; X int count; X} Rddirres; static Rddirres readalldir(char *name) X{ X Rddirres res; X DIR *dir; X Dirent *dirp; X Dirname *newdir, *curdir =3D NULL; X errno =3D 0; X res.dirnm =3D NULL; X res.opened =3D res.count =3D 0; X dir =3D opendir(name); X if (dir =3D=3D NULL) X return res; X res.opened++; X /* read the whole directory into memory */ X while ((dirp =3D readdir(dir)) !=3D NULL) { X newdir =3D malloc(sizeof *newdir); X if (newdir =3D=3D NULL) X abort(); X newdir->name =3D strdup(dirp->d_name); X newdir->next =3D NULL; X if (res.dirnm =3D=3D NULL) X res.dirnm =3D newdir; X else X curdir->next =3D newdir; X curdir =3D newdir; X res.count++; X } X closedir(dir); X return res; X} static void freealldir(Dirname *alldir) X{ X Dirname *next, *dp; X for (dp =3D alldir; dp !=3D NULL; dp =3D next) { X next =3D dp->next; X dp->next =3D NULL; X free(dp->name); X dp->name =3D NULL; X free(dp); X } X} static int samedir(char *compname, char *cdp) X{ X char *dirname; X /* X * Recursively rmsame the sub-directory. X */ X *cdp =3D '/'; X strcpy(cdp+1, compname); /* maintain full path to . */ X if (slow) X dirname =3D fullcurrdir; X else X dirname =3D compname; X strcpy(currdir, dirname); X if (verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "cd %s\n", dirname); X if (chgdir(dirname) < 0) /* descend */ X return Differ; /* no perms, perhaps */ X rmsame(); X *cdp =3D '\0'; /* maintain full path to . */ X if (!slow) X dirname =3D ".."; X if (verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "cd %s\n", dirname); X if (chgdir(dirname) < 0) /* climb back up */ X exit(2); /* something is ill */ X /* Remove the directory entry if empty. */ X if (!dontrm && rmdir(compname) =3D=3D 0 && verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "rmdir %s\n", compname); X return Ignore; X} X#ifdef S_IFLNK static int samesymlnk(char *filename) X{ X int filecnt, cmpcnt, same =3D Differ; X /* X * Remove if symbolic links point to the same place. X * Arguably this is too conservative, but best to let X * the user handle this one. X */ X filecnt =3D readlink(filename, filelink, sizeof filelink); X cmpcnt =3D readlink(cmpfile, cmplink, sizeof cmplink); X if (filecnt < 0) { X perror(filename); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s in %s\n", argv0, filename, fullcurrdir); X } else if (cmpcnt < 0) { X perror(cmpfile); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s in %s\n", argv0, cmpfile, fullcurrdir); X } else if (filecnt =3D=3D cmpcnt && X strncmp(filelink, cmplink, filecnt) =3D=3D 0) X same =3D Same; X return same; X} X#endif static int compare(char *compname, char *cmpname, char *cdp) X{ X /* X * skip to next file if: ".", "..", either is non-existent, X * differing file types, or matching device & i-number X * (which means we got tricked by symbolic links or namespace X * mapping) and link count is 1 (the last link). X */ X if (STREQ(compname, ".") || STREQ(compname, "..")) X return Ignore; X strcpy(cmpname, compname); X if (STAT(compname, &filestat) < 0) { /* vanished since readdir? */ X perror(compname); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: stat(%s) in %s\n", X argv0, compname, fullcurrdir); X return Missing; X } X if (STAT(cmpfile, &cmpstat) < 0) /* not in other tree */ X return Missing; X if ((filestat.st_mode&S_IFMT) !=3D (cmpstat.st_mode&S_IFMT) || X /* don't remove last link */ X SAMEFILE(&filestat, &cmpstat) && filestat.st_nlink <=3D 1) { X if (verbose) X printf("ignoring %s\n", compname); X return Differ; X } X switch (filestat.st_mode&S_IFMT) { X case S_IFDIR: X /* Recursively rmsame the sub-directory. */ X return samedir(compname, cdp); X case S_IFREG: X return filestat.st_size =3D=3D cmpstat.st_size && X cmpplain(compname, cmpfile) =3D=3D Same; X case S_IFCHR: X case S_IFBLK: X#ifdef notdef X /* Remove if major & minor device numbers are same. */ X return filestat.st_rdev =3D=3D cmpstat.st_rdev; X#endif X#ifdef S_IFLNK X case S_IFLNK: X return samesymlnk(compname); X#endif X#ifdef S_IFSOCK X case S_IFSOCK: X return Same; /* Nuke the gay unborn sockets! */ X#endif X } X} static void examine(char *compname, char *cmpname, char *cdp) X{ X if (verbose) X fprintf(stderr, "name: %s\n", compname); X dispose(compname, compare(compname, cmpname, cdp)); X} static void rmsame(void) X{ X char *cmpname, *cdp; X Dirname *dp; X Rddirres dirres; X cmpname =3D &cmpfile[strlen(cmpfile)]; X *cmpname++ =3D '/'; X cdp =3D fullcurrdir + strlen(fullcurrdir); X dirres =3D readalldir("."); X if (!dirres.opened) { X if (errno =3D=3D EMFILE) { X fprintf(stderr, "%s: directory structure too deep.\n", X argv0); X exit(1); X } X perror("."); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: opendir(.) in %s\n", argv0, fullcurrdir); X /* X * this is probably a permission problem, so give up on this X * directory but keep going. X */ X } else { X for (dp =3D dirres.dirnm; dp !=3D NULL; dp =3D dp->next) X examine(dp->name, cmpname, cdp); X freealldir(dirres.dirnm); X } X *cmpname =3D '\0'; X} X/* read with warning if error */ static int wread(int fd, void *buf, long len, char *name) X{ X int bytes =3D read(fd, buf, len); X if (bytes < 0) { X perror(name); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: read(%s) in %s\n", argv0, name, X fullcurrdir); X } X return bytes; X} X/* open with warning if error */ static int wopen(char *name, int mode) X{ X int fd =3D open(name, mode); X if (fd < 0) { X perror(name); X fprintf(stderr, "%s: open(%s) in %s\n", argv0, name, X fullcurrdir); X } X return fd; X} static int cmpfds(char *name1, char *name2, int fd1, int fd2) X{ X int cnt1, cnt2; X char buf1[Bufsize], buf2[Bufsize]; X if (fd1 < 0 || fd2 < 0) X return Differ; X do { X cnt1 =3D wread(fd1, buf1, sizeof buf1, name1); X cnt2 =3D wread(fd2, buf2, sizeof buf2, name2); X if (cnt1 < 0 || cnt2 < 0) X return Differ; X if (cnt1 !=3D cnt2) { /* can't happen */ X fprintf(stderr, X "%s: read differing amounts from %s and %s\n", X argv0, name1, name2); X return Differ; X } X if (cnt1 =3D=3D 0) /* both at EOF? */ X return Same; X } while (memcmp(buf1, buf2, cnt1) =3D=3D 0); X return Differ; X} static int cmpplain(char *name1, char *name2) X{ X int fd1, fd2, result =3D Differ; X fd1 =3D wopen(name1, O_RDONLY); X fd2 =3D wopen(name2, O_RDONLY); X if (fd1 >=3D 0 && fd2 >=3D 0) X result =3D cmpfds(name1, name2, fd1, fd2); X if (fd1 >=3D 0) X close(fd1); X if (fd2 >=3D 0) X close(fd2); X return result; X} ! echo rmsame/rmsame.man sed 's/^X//' >rmsame/rmsame.man <<'!' X.TH RMSAME 1 X.SH NAME rmsame \- remove identical files X.SH SYNOPSIS X.B rmsame X[ X.B \-npsv X] X.I directory X.SH DESCRIPTION X.B rmsame will recursively compare files from the current directory X(and below) with corresponding files from the X.I directory argument. When files are identical, the local copy is deleted. After a subdirectory has been processed, it is removed if it is empty. X.PP This program is useful when maintaining a system that is constantly receiving new software releases. Instead of installing local revisions repeatedly into the new releases, one could load a new release into a scratch disk and run rmsame to leave only those files that have changed. These can then be examined and processed manually. X.SH OPTIONS X.PD 0 X.TP 5 X.B \-n don't remove any files, just print the names of those which differ from t= hose under X.IR directory . X.TP 5 X.B \-p don't remove any files, just print the names of files identical to those = under X.IR directory . X.TP 5 X.B \-s traverse directory trees slowly but reliably. X.TP 5 X.B \-v show the processing as it is taking place X(normally processing is silent except for error messages). X.PD X.SH "SEE ALSO" X.IR cmp (1), X.IR rm (1), X.IR rmdir (1) X.SH DIAGNOSTICS X.TP 5 X\fIname\fP is "." The directory given as the comparison directory is also the current direc= tory. The command "rm\ \-r\ ." has the same effect, and is much faster. X.SH BUGS If the directory structure is too deep, the program runs out of file descriptors and exits. X.PP A symbolic link is considered to be only identical to another symbolic link pointing to the same name. If the names are different, no check is made to see if the paths are really the same. X.SH AUTHORS The original X.B rmsame was a shell script written by Geoff\ Collyer. It was later re-written as a C program by Ron\ Wessels. ! --upas-qedcifnupyofifwebpwrlfhpru-- From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 5 16:06:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 11:52:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 581cd6a2_86ac_11d8_81aa_00304828b574_31898; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:52:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAEC3445E8 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:52:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 57ecd394_86ac_11d8_8398_00304828b574_31893; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:52:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3135F75810B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:52:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CDA758100 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:52:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54ede9a8_86ac_11d8_8599_00304828b574_31853; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:52:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF3E344607 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:47:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94e46c2c_86ab_11d8_936d_00304828b574_29128; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:47:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CE1919E44; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 337A119AB5; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:47:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11A7519E43; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B971819E2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i352kNik015693 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:46:23 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i352kMFb012409 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:46:23 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i352kLwO016260 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:46:21 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... In-Reply-To: <7b0cd52cf8dc7d7c7727f39eee7e4be5@collyer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:46:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm probably missing something but did not see source lying around on the web page, unless it is in the tarballs? I assumed the ISO had everything but see no source. ron From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 5 16:06:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 11:53:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6cd75fb8_86ac_11d8_962a_00304828b574_32246; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 385EC3445EE for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c9f5c3a_86ac_11d8_932a_00304828b574_32234; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 23D2A758100; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:53:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEC27580FF for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:53:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68c481a8_86ac_11d8_92a5_00304828b574_32188; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:53:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91FEB344612 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:51:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2400f790_86ac_11d8_8650_00304828b574_31231; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:51:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43AEF19E61; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DA6019E43; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:51:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E41219AB5; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B21319E2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <95d797f4caf9a67f49930a9962dbf9f2@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:50:32 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I haven't kept up with Vitanuova's evolving licensing plans, but I've been a subscriber and thus entitled to source. I'm not sure if the free downloads include it these days. From rsc@swtch.com Mon Apr 5 16:06:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 12:16:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a14b8bf4_86af_11d8_8eb5_00304828b574_4149; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADAE34464C for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a119e270_86af_11d8_992c_00304828b574_4146; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A08967580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:16:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AAD7580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0dc3100_86af_11d8_88aa_00304828b574_4143; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6738034464C for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a02e6cdc_86af_11d8_8f71_00304828b574_4139; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F12C19E6F; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4576419E69; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F1EA19E45; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8596919B95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swtch.com (node-40245942.bos.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.89.66]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69C524FD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 23:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4070CF5C.8010900@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferrno install, macos x, fails ... References: <95d797f4caf9a67f49930a9962dbf9f2@collyer.net> In-Reply-To: <95d797f4caf9a67f49930a9962dbf9f2@collyer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:15:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Geoff Collyer wrote: > I haven't kept up with Vitanuova's evolving licensing plans, but I've > been a subscriber and thus entitled to source. I'm not sure if the > free downloads include it these days. the free downloads include source. the iso has .9gz files that need further extraction (by the installer) iirc. russ From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Mon Apr 5 16:06:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 14:37:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48282c6c_86c3_11d8_89e2_00304828b574_6457; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:37:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CACF344743 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:37:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47f0fb3e_86c3_11d8_958b_00304828b574_6452; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:37:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 65FFF758106; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:37:07 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354697580FA for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:37:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 459def54_86c3_11d8_899c_00304828b574_6422; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:37:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 720C8344713 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:32:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a089fd1e_86c2_11d8_97f2_00304828b574_3966; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:32:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A00C19E4D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 01:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75C4219BE5; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 01:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3BEEF19E56; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 01:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65E4019D77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 01:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6b9bb047db43df8a548efe072eeb5d25@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <021801c417f6$2237c350$34fea8c0@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:32:26 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > all i need is a large amount of money [150k EUR] and then ... By the way, it seems that the free software movement may have shifted to Europe these days. I got region 1 "Gangs of New york", and had to setup my Linux box to enjoy it. The ogle movie free software is from se domain... What is happening in US these days. Kenji From dpeschel@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 19:55:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 18:10:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 183829f8_86e1_11d8_9c1d_00304828b574_25745; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:10:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977EF344986 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 180525e4_86e1_11d8_8f53_00304828b574_25742; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 834317580FB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287367580FA for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17bfc058_86e1_11d8_9463_00304828b574_25739; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D83344986 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:10:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1710580c_86e1_11d8_8013_00304828b574_25735; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:10:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5B5819BAF; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D15E19D76; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 281D119C34; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BEC519DB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BAQ1S-0002n6-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Derek Peschel Message-ID: <6b26c83b.0404020930.36f9868a@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:01:45 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just getting the details while it's still easy. These numbers currently have no x_MAGIC definitions in a.out.h. What CPU and value of x, if any, used to go with each? 0 through 10 14 15=20 Are there short and long names for the little-endian MIPS 3000 (type 24 in a.out.h)? -- Derek From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 5 19:55:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 18:20:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 819eebd8_86e2_11d8_8138_00304828b574_27571; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641F7344925 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:20:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81190f7c_86e2_11d8_8a0e_00304828b574_27550; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:20:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B730F7580FB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:20:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C80758106 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7edfb698_86e2_11d8_8e7c_00304828b574_27537; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:20:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F141344E4C for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:20:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79bbf776_86e2_11d8_8568_00304828b574_27463; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:20:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFD2F19E8E; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 07E2E19E19; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:20:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88CFF19E77; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FA0819E19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0237b42484699769375ab74d368c5e23@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <6b26c83b.0404020930.36f9868a@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 02:19:35 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Since b is used as a base (radix) in _MAGIC and digits in that radix include 7, values of b less than 8 aren't sensible. From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 5 19:55:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 18:49:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83e15530_86e6_11d8_846e_00304828b574_3467; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:49:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFAF344740 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 838bec76_86e6_11d8_945e_00304828b574_3464; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5F9AD7580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:49:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167F77580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 834d2252_86e6_11d8_9cd1_00304828b574_3461; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C17344740 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:49:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82a0b9ae_86e6_11d8_951f_00304828b574_3457; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:49:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C3C119E8C; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABE4619DDF; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA66619B0C; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 680FE19AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e5ef3a23443387e810176ab94a3c695@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <0237b42484699769375ab74d368c5e23@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 02:48:41 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Early on, it appears that 8 was designated for the vax, 10 for the hobbit (letter z), 14 for the HP-PA. From brucee@chunder.com Mon Apr 5 19:55:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 19:18:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95986a80_86ea_11d8_85c4_00304828b574_10435; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C24344A00 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95623e06_86ea_11d8_9171_00304828b574_10432; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 529CD7580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0986F7580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9528a8e4_86ea_11d8_90bb_00304828b574_10428; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBC8344A00 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94742306_86ea_11d8_9d8e_00304828b574_10424; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A40BF19E97; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E6A419E91; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10BCC19E92; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 73C2419E90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20831 invoked by uid 89); 5 Apr 2004 10:12:12 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2004 10:12:12 -0000 Message-ID: <005901c41af7$8038d8f0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6b26c83b.0404020930.36f9868a@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:19:33 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i did 3c. i don't remember the details. looking at libmach may help but i think some of my stuff was excised for the distribution because it was not relevant - someone correct me if i'm wrong. btw LE R3000 is the co-processor on the ps2. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Peschel" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:01 PM Subject: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h > Just getting the details while it's still easy. These numbers currently > have no x_MAGIC definitions in a.out.h. What CPU and value of x, if any, > used to go with each? > > 0 through 10 > 14 > 15 > > Are there short and long names for the little-endian MIPS 3000 (type 24 > in a.out.h)? > > -- Derek From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 5 19:55:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 19:50:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 102def8c_86ef_11d8_8102_00304828b574_16057; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18ADB344E86 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ffd282a_86ef_11d8_98ef_00304828b574_16054; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EFA4E7580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:50:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86B67580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fbe735a_86ef_11d8_858a_00304828b574_16050; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B806A344E86 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:50:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f1116c4_86ef_11d8_8711_00304828b574_16046; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09E9519EA1; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF20619EA1; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D56F19EA2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E087F19E9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <323546-12840>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:47:52 -0400 Message-ID: <01fe01c41af2$d5d720f0$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6b9bb047db43df8a548efe072eeb5d25@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:46:09 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The ogle movie free software is from se domain... under .se law that is 'fair use' [copy whatever you like, but don't use it for a commercial purpose]. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 19:56:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df79eed0_86ef_11d8_9cb6_00304828b574_17104; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285B2344E8E for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dedaf1c2_86ef_11d8_9a75_00304828b574_17101; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 06E307580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:56:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694A27580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:56:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de6afcfa_86ef_11d8_8df4_00304828b574_17098; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:56:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3481C344E8E for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:56:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd92da0a_86ef_11d8_8570_00304828b574_17094; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:56:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A54C19EA3; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64AED19E19; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81F3E19A9F; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24C7519AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <4e5ef3a23443387e810176ab94a3c695@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xztmmtifsigcfsxnilycnqszse" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:53:36 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xztmmtifsigcfsxnilycnqszse Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i use z now for the suite for the avr, on the grounds perhaps that it's the last thing you'd choose to use (although as always the processor is fairly irrelevant once C gets going), and certainly that the hobbit is probably the last thing i'd find now. --upas-xztmmtifsigcfsxnilycnqszse Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 5 10:50:00 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE4EF19E73; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89BF819DDF; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:49:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA66619B0C; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 680FE19AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e5ef3a23443387e810176ab94a3c695@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <0237b42484699769375ab74d368c5e23@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 02:48:41 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Early on, it appears that 8 was designated for the vax, 10 for the hobbit (letter z), 14 for the HP-PA. --upas-xztmmtifsigcfsxnilycnqszse-- From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 20:01:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e03064e_86f0_11d8_89c9_00304828b574_18453; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:01:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2928344A2E for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:01:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d5a9c3e_86f0_11d8_91be_00304828b574_18446; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:01:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8B4CB7580F9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:01:12 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F007580FF for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:01:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8cf60526_86f0_11d8_9f23_00304828b574_18437; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:01:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FBB344A47 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:00:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a1739de_86f0_11d8_89c7_00304828b574_18146; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:00:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6CEA19EA3; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2097519E9D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:00:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8418519EA2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E0B219E9D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <360231-27666>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 06:58:32 -0400 Message-ID: <026201c41af4$5372a060$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0237b42484699769375ab74d368c5e23@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:56:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: in the days of the 11 the a.out header value was the instruction to jump over the a.out header. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 20:09:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c3c73f60_86f1_11d8_919b_00304828b574_22840; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:09:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D6F3446DE for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:09:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c396b02a_86f1_11d8_9d9f_00304828b574_22837; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:09:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A2E7A7580F9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:09:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF1375810A for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:09:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bfab998a_86f1_11d8_8ee6_00304828b574_22808; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:09:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C29344A51 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c7c4764_86f1_11d8_93a3_00304828b574_21622; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B40B619EB4; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66E7F19EA1; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79B3519EA1; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AA5819E98 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <82aeaf58f578e1f64cab9db5c891089a@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] unused types in a.out.h From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <005901c41af7$8038d8f0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:04:54 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: the powerpc is q[acl] because i was still working at a university when i did it, and i thought it wouldn't be universally popular if mk clean removed not just powerpc object files but pascal source as well. From plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 22:26:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d307fd4e_8704_11d8_85f0_00304828b574_20269; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A381344B93 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d2d664dc_8704_11d8_89d8_00304828b574_20265; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4CA427580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1317580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d29b0df6_8704_11d8_9d6c_00304828b574_20262; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19854344B90 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:26:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d1ecc5fc_8704_11d8_9ee3_00304828b574_20254; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:26:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C75AF19EA2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2765419E4F; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:26:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B025719C69; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.snellwilcox.com (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 209D519DBD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by mail2.snellwilcox.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:25:04 +0100 Received: from larch.com (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i35FCejR011892 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:12:41 +0100 Message-ID: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> From: plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Win32 console apps from plan9? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:25:14 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Anyone ported one of the open-source x86 compilers to plan9. I know GCC works natively and thus, in theroy I could port the x86/win32 back backend but that would be non-trivial. I wonder if LCC would be easier? Initially all I need is very dull console I/O, reading and writing files etc. I muttered about re-targeting 8c a couple of years ago but forsyth pointed out the calling convention is so different that a complete shim around the win32 api, or a serious rework of 8c would be required. -Steve From bwc@coraid.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 22:43:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 355a5062_8707_11d8_8dc5_00304828b574_27161; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:43:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B1B3441D2 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:43:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3520a81c_8707_11d8_9896_00304828b574_27158; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:43:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3A95F7580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:43:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5777580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:43:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34e89aa8_8707_11d8_9a8c_00304828b574_27155; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:43:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE483441D9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:43:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34338460_8707_11d8_934e_00304828b574_27144; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:43:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7041F19E1B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E562619B39; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 384BC19AA0; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 484D419A7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Win32 console apps from plan9? From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:38:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Anyone ported one of the open-source x86 compilers > to plan9. I know GCC works natively and thus, in theroy > I could port the x86/win32 back backend but that would > be non-trivial. I wonder if LCC would be easier? I've compiled lcc on plan 9 and use it regularly. If all you want is to generate windows assembler that will be your best bet. Brantley From nms@otdel1.org Tue Apr 6 19:52:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 22:48:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ece2703e_8707_11d8_973d_00304828b574_28165; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:48:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439A1344B99 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:48:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecad50ca_8707_11d8_88f2_00304828b574_28162; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:48:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2F0087580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:48:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E241E7580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec77fca4_8707_11d8_8c7d_00304828b574_28159; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA463344B99 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:48:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebc5b896_8707_11d8_8551_00304828b574_28148; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DCED19E7C; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB89219B39; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:48:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 555C519C87; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Draculina.otdel-1.org (unknown [62.105.150.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1137219B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by Draculina.otdel-1.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3DE9147619; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:47:46 +0400 (MSD) From: Nikolai SAOUKH To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Win32 console apps from plan9? Message-ID: <20040405134745.GA26859@otdel1.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:47:45 +0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | Initially all I need is very dull console I/O, reading and | writing files etc. May be inferno utils will help you? From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 5 22:54:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4109b6c_8708_11d8_8cb3_00304828b574_28987; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:54:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE088344BAC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:54:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c3ab7e80_8708_11d8_91bc_00304828b574_28984; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:54:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D53F47580FA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:54:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4156E7580F9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:54:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c33fa44e_8708_11d8_8f7f_00304828b574_28981; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:54:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC111344BAC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c23c90e8_8708_11d8_8a2a_00304828b574_28977; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FE2719E9D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A2B419E58; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:54:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E87EF19C87; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D41419AF6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <850f3fa88f8629d1b752074f0f2f6560@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Win32 console apps from plan9? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20040405134745.GA26859@otdel1.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-twjsrnpylfufvqoogvrdsqynhp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:51:43 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-twjsrnpylfufvqoogvrdsqynhp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit they don't generate win 32 executables. >I muttered about re-targeting 8c a couple of years ago >but forsyth pointed out the calling convention is so >different that a complete shim around the win32 api, >or a serious rework of 8c would be required. i think it was less the calling conventions, where i suppose you could try to use a pragma to control it, since caller-saves and BP as frame pointer are some of the obvious differences but perhaps not so hard, but rather more difficult that you'd find it hard if you couldn't link against the existing win32 libraries (with or without wrappers), and that would be difficult because 8l would need to handle .obj, or 8c would need to generate .obj, both of which (particularly the latter i think) would be tricky. --upas-twjsrnpylfufvqoogvrdsqynhp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 5 14:49:05 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D63A419E42; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D5C519AF6; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:48:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 555C519C87; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Draculina.otdel-1.org (unknown [62.105.150.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1137219B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by Draculina.otdel-1.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3DE9147619; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:47:46 +0400 (MSD) From: Nikolai SAOUKH To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Win32 console apps from plan9? Message-ID: <20040405134745.GA26859@otdel1.org> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2777ffc3a7017935fabfb9b8a1d7fc1e@snellwilcox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:47:45 +0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | Initially all I need is very dull console I/O, reading and | writing files etc. May be inferno utils will help you? --upas-twjsrnpylfufvqoogvrdsqynhp-- From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 01:06:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36317006_871b_11d8_9441_00304828b574_24622; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:06:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F1F344C9E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35ffeb8a_871b_11d8_834d_00304828b574_24619; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 91B3D7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DCB7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35c51c9e_871b_11d8_9f40_00304828b574_24616; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D747344C9E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3513f572_871b_11d8_9b9a_00304828b574_24612; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C975619E85; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16F7219E5B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE6E119B2E; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5EEF19AE5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6bbb2eaa8c8868ea3f540495f9ff016a@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <6b9bb047db43df8a548efe072eeb5d25@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:32:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // ...it seems that the free software movement may have shifted to // Europe these days. ...What is happening in US these days. all americans are either cowering in their duct-tape-sealed homes or have left the country. besides, only terrorists use free software. (yes, it's meant to be a joke, although i wish it was farther from reality. bah.) also: bomb, terror, semtex, NSA, congres. hello eschelon, carnivore! =E3=82=A2 From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 6 19:52:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 01:38:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af0688e6_871f_11d8_96a3_00304828b574_764; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C49134424B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aed5bc16_871f_11d8_87e3_00304828b574_761; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4D3597580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069C67580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ae9629ca_871f_11d8_9709_00304828b574_758; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C5234424B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ade9b9ec_871f_11d8_8c7a_00304828b574_754; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E3CD19EA4; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08D9A19E82; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:38:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 323DF19C58; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0819E19AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e11902657f4e1ef9c58e2c09109865f@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:37:27 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: this function was supposed to be disabled (only allowing users to edit the wiki from a Plan 9 machine) but it seems to have been re-enabled. currently the main wiki page is fscked. andrey From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 6 19:52:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 01:42:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ba9ff6c_8720_11d8_99f3_00304828b574_1406; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:42:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51328344264 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:42:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b6f9444_8720_11d8_9905_00304828b574_1402; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:42:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3D51E7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:42:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC87C7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b3809e8_8720_11d8_9317_00304828b574_1399; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AB5344264 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3a8b23a4_8720_11d8_8466_00304828b574_1395; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFF8B19EA4; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51D5519E5B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E74C119E5B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4FDB19AC4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <1e11902657f4e1ef9c58e2c09109865f@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:41:57 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > this function was supposed to be disabled (only allowing users to edit > the wiki from a Plan 9 machine) but it seems to have been re-enabled. > > currently the main wiki page is fscked. > > andrey i've reinstated the main page from its last known good state, but we should really disable editing from the web... andrey From rsc@mit.edu Tue Apr 6 19:52:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 01:51:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b351fa4_8721_11d8_91ec_00304828b574_2893; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:51:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5889734426B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:50:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5bf0b2b0_8721_11d8_9e43_00304828b574_2763; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:50:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E2FE77580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:50:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 403EF7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a17b74a_8721_11d8_9388_00304828b574_2759; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B95834426B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:50:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 579214b6_8721_11d8_928e_00304828b574_2730; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:50:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EBED19EAD; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43A6419EA0; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:50:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DCFC819E89; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D40F719E5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mit.edu (tux.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.157]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F7024FE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40719C26.60501@mit.edu> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:49:26 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: andrey mirtchovski wrote: >>this function was supposed to be disabled (only allowing users to edit >>the wiki from a Plan 9 machine) but it seems to have been re-enabled. >> >>currently the main wiki page is fscked. >> >>andrey >> >> > >i've reinstated the main page from its last known good state, but we >should really disable editing from the web... > > that didn't take long. we moved services to a new machine over the weekend, a machine with a working ip/httpd/wikipost. i think i've fixed the problem. russ From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 02:46:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d6395ae_8729_11d8_96cf_00304828b574_14815; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6313441A7 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:46:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d309c9e_8729_11d8_9ab2_00304828b574_14812; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:46:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 70494758100; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:46:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F257580FE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:46:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b082de2_8729_11d8_94ed_00304828b574_14780; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:46:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C343441A7 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:43:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c46e62d6_8728_11d8_886a_00304828b574_13387; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:43:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A32B19E42; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE84F19E8D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00D5919E58; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFB9819AC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-Reply-To: <40719C26.60501@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:41:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i don't suppose we have any log info that might be useful for tracking down the virtual vandal? just curious. =E3=82=A2 From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 6 19:52:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 03:01:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4755b22e_872b_11d8_8743_00304828b574_18410; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69704344289 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47235fcc_872b_11d8_9775_00304828b574_18404; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4CCA67580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052207580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46e4eabc_872b_11d8_9486_00304828b574_18400; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 140FB344287 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46371810_872b_11d8_9924_00304828b574_18396; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 311B619CA7; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D342719E5B; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 454C219CA7; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0980919A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:00:47 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > i don't suppose we have any log info that might be useful for > tracking down the virtual vandal? just curious. > =E3=82=A2 you can click on the 'history' link at the bottom of the wiki page to find their ip address... the latest perpetrator was from Moldova.=20 moldtelecom -- them russians and their abbreviated company names :) From rsc@swtch.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 03:09:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5cb93324_872c_11d8_8d4b_00304828b574_19545; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:09:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75FA3442B2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c87b60a_872c_11d8_9ab6_00304828b574_19542; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AC9617580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665167580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c4b0714_872c_11d8_857a_00304828b574_19539; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738A53442B2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:09:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b9c1eb6_872c_11d8_92d6_00304828b574_19535; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:09:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E257719EB5; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8153D19B54; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C912E19E42; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:08:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A749F19BBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swtch.com (lusitania.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.154]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4837624FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4071A070.2020204@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:07:44 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: a@9srv.net wrote: > i don't suppose we have any log info that might be useful for > tracking down the virtual vandal? just curious. The IP address is in the history. From dvd@davidashen.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 03:22:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35ac85d6_872e_11d8_895a_00304828b574_22280; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A75C344D02 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 357c6950_872e_11d8_89a3_00304828b574_22277; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:22:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2D3017580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:22:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83A47580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 353c6652_872e_11d8_8dfd_00304828b574_22274; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E51344D05 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 348b55e2_872e_11d8_88cb_00304828b574_22263; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 48D1D19EC4; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3847919EC2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1425119EB8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (unknown [217.113.20.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E877719EC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (localhost.davidashen.net [127.0.0.1]) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i35IIoem051865 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:18:50 +0500 (AMST) (envelope-from dvd@adat.davidashen.net) Received: (from dvd@localhost) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i35IIoF8051864 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:18:50 +0500 (AMST) From: David Tolpin Message-Id: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-Reply-To: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:18:50 +0500 (AMST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > i don't suppose we have any log info that might be useful for > > tracking down the virtual vandal? just curious. > > ã‚¢ > > you can click on the 'history' link at the bottom of the wiki page to > find their ip address... > > the latest perpetrator was from Moldova. > > moldtelecom -- them russians and their abbreviated company names :) > Moldovians are much less Russians than Bulgarians are. Tame your chauvinism. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 6 19:52:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 03:44:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40e567c6_8731_11d8_92db_00304828b574_26389; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A8A344EFE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40b45fe6_8731_11d8_875e_00304828b574_26386; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 76A467580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC527580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 407414d6_8731_11d8_904e_00304828b574_26383; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:44:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBCD344EFE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:44:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fc6481a_8731_11d8_817e_00304828b574_26379; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:44:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC6D619E58; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2957E19D38; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90BFA19D38; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 302C519CA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:43:13 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Moldovians are much less Russians than Bulgarians are. Tame your > chauvinism. 'twas a joke, get on with it. here's an emoticon that should make more sense: =E2=98=BA Bulgaria has also inherited a Soviet-style inclination to get as many abbreviated words as possible in the names of state-run companies, "Neftochim" and "Bulgartabak" come as examples. Should I not be making fun of those either? By the way, you either have the definition of 'chauvinism' wrong, or are confused about which country I am "militantly devoted to the glorification of" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=3Dchauvinism). I believe the word doesn't change meaning in either russian, armenian, bulgarian, moldovan (romanian) or gagauz. From ggm@apnic.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 04:13:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 539cbf00_8735_11d8_85ea_00304828b574_2949; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:13:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09F53442C6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52b5534a_8735_11d8_8ac2_00304828b574_2934; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8E0F77580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:13:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06A37580FF for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50599de0_8735_11d8_9083_00304828b574_2902; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CF23442DD for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30066c1c_8735_11d8_95fc_00304828b574_2428; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:12:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4973519EDA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4EE619ED2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:12:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 469BF19ED2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4267E19ED3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i35JBqNZ010554 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:11:54 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Message-Id: <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> In-Reply-To: <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.9claws17 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-netbsdelf1.6ZI) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:11:52 -0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >Bulgaria has also inherited a Soviet-style inclination to get as many >abbreviated words as possible in the names of state-run companies, >"Neftochim" and "Bulgartabak" come as examples. Should I not be >making fun of those either? The French do this too, as I am sure Boyd can point out. Maybe the Sovs got it from the French? And I wish I knew if the 'waterloo == station' urban myth my mother told me is true (apparently the czar was that impressed with the station when he saw it) I like this form of word construction. As does Bell Northern Canada and almost every other telco these days. EmbraTel, Nortel, K-Tel... > >By the way, you either have the definition of 'chauvinism' wrong, or >are confused about which country I am "militantly devoted to the >glorification of" >(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chauvinism). I believe the >word doesn't change meaning in either russian, armenian, bulgarian, >moldovan (romanian) or gagauz. I blame the cathars, or the bogomils. They're all dead anyway. But I'll blame Canada if you like! -George From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Tue Apr 6 19:52:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 04:22:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ffa156e_8736_11d8_8732_00304828b574_4497; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:22:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCD03442FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:22:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8fab0514_8736_11d8_9c75_00304828b574_4494; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:22:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6EF2C7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:22:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14DA7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:22:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f50a038_8736_11d8_9623_00304828b574_4491; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:22:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB123442FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:22:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e6d53be_8736_11d8_94d8_00304828b574_4487; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:22:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA2A319BA3; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 583F319AA2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:22:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 964E019B5D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 76B6119A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i35JL6Ci024425 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:21:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i35JL6sF018245 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:21:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i35JL6L23915 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:21:06 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404051921.i35JL6L23915@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:11:52 -0300." <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:21:06 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I like this form of word construction. As does Bell Northern Canada and almost > every other telco these days. EmbraTel, Nortel, K-Tel... once upon a time there was twentel... (a functional programming language developed at the then called 'technische hogeschool twente') Axel. - sorry about the noise, but could not resist From rvs@sun.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 04:30:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be33be34_8737_11d8_8d36_00304828b574_5879; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:30:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EB7344D4C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be02a1fa_8737_11d8_91a2_00304828b574_5876; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8881A7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:30:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B5B7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd9630a6_8737_11d8_940b_00304828b574_5873; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28007344D4E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bce10f3c_8737_11d8_898a_00304828b574_5866; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6271519E13; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3212719B5D; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:30:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E99B319EB7; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D96719AC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i35JTxLT014174 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id i35JTx9s028527 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id i35JTw928567 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:29:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Message-ID: <20040405192958.GF28438@submarine> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:29:58 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 04:11:52PM -0300, George Michaelson wrote: > > >Bulgaria has also inherited a Soviet-style inclination to get as many > >abbreviated words as possible in the names of state-run companies, > >"Neftochim" and "Bulgartabak" come as examples. Should I not be > >making fun of those either? > > The French do this too, as I am sure Boyd can point out. Maybe the Sovs got > it from the French? What ?!?!? I though USA invented the whole idea. Thanks, Roman. P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was practically Morse code when it came to the number of acronyms per sentence, boy, was I wrong: "AFAIR I've RSVPed for the FAQ session before COB"! And that's *spoken* language! From plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 05:01:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08979ffa_873c_11d8_931e_00304828b574_11978; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DD4344DE3 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08631be0_873c_11d8_8cfe_00304828b574_11975; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7E9D77580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384827580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 082b2bae_873c_11d8_8558_00304828b574_11972; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B515344DE3 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:01:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 077fbad0_873c_11d8_9bb2_00304828b574_11968; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:01:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B4E19EEA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6432619ED9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9365019ED9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paris.snellwlcox.com (cpc2-sout4-6-0-cust223.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.111.117.223]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBFC519ED1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0844d4730d503fcee80f873ed35defeb@snellwilcox.com> From: plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] train stations Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:00:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: wasn't it vauxhall station ? -Steve From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 6 19:52:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 05:16:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 236fd3f4_873e_11d8_8870_00304828b574_15427; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:16:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D1C344F4E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:16:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 233fe838_873e_11d8_98cd_00304828b574_15424; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:16:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5D8B37580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:16:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05BCC7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:16:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 22d8b726_873e_11d8_8732_00304828b574_15421; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:16:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014BC344F4E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:16:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2225079e_873e_11d8_94d8_00304828b574_15417; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:16:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D172C19EA8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2201019EA8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:16:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56E9F19E34; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D01219EA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3606978edd0370513664efc164cb68c3@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] train stations From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <0844d4730d503fcee80f873ed35defeb@snellwilcox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:15:20 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > wasn't it vauxhall station ? >=20 > -Steve http://www.vauxhallandkennington.org.uk/springgardens.shtml quote: As a result, "Vauxhall" became a generic term for other pleasure gardens, including Bath's "Sydney Gardens" Vauxhall, much visited by Jane Austen. Indeed, Vauxhall gave the Russians their word for "railway station" which is pronounced "vokzal". in cyrillic it's "=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=B7=D0=B0=D0=BB" andrey From wes@village.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 05:49:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd7a3e2c_8742_11d8_95c3_00304828b574_23813; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082A6344382 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd42e2d8_8742_11d8_9b1a_00304828b574_23810; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E95D67580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:49:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01DE7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd0952ca_8742_11d8_85db_00304828b574_23807; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC11344382 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc5b5012_8742_11d8_9172_00304828b574_23803; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D93FE19EC1; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F75D19EBE; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:49:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E245719EBE; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.abyx.com (s85f45n6e.servers.accentric.net [209.132.69.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0618199F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WK-HP-Pavilion.village.com (h004005bd31cc.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.215.98]) (authenticated) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i35KIiI13239 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:18:44 -0400 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040405164248.02b9c728@mail.village.com> X-Sender: wespop@mail.village.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Wes Kussmaul Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-Reply-To: <20040405192958.GF28438@submarine> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> <20040405192958.GF28438@submarine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:48:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > >P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was >practically Morse code when it came to the number of acronyms per >sentence, boy, was I wrong: "AFAIR I've RSVPed for the FAQ session before >COB"! >And that's *spoken* language! To have a PKI application reviewed for acceptance by the U.S. military, you'll need to apply to the DoD/DISA/JITC/PKITC/PKE AP program. WK From plan9@kp.km.ua Tue Apr 6 19:52:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 05:51:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffbc8466_8742_11d8_95e9_00304828b574_24079; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:51:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379B0344387 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:51:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff89d098_8742_11d8_9a58_00304828b574_24076; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:51:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 19C687580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:51:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F0E7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:51:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff4857f8_8742_11d8_8195_00304828b574_24073; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:51:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB24344387 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:51:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe97dff4_8742_11d8_9bd7_00304828b574_24069; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:51:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB5BB19EDD; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A6E919EC8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DBAA19EBB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infocom.km.ua (infocom.km.ua [195.46.36.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A08319EBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kp.km.ua (root@RE-2M.kp.km.ua [195.46.36.90]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/ic) with ESMTP id i35KoYrS076026 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:50:35 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from 195.135.202.14 (dialup20.kp.km.ua [195.135.202.14] (may be forged)) by kp.km.ua (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/kp-branch) with ESMTP id i35Kp2Xq036762 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:51:03 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) From: "Andrey S. Kukhar" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48d) Personal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1821134421.20040405235333@kp.km.ua> To: andrey mirtchovski <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] train stations In-reply-To: <3606978edd0370513664efc164cb68c3@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <3606978edd0370513664efc164cb68c3@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Andrey S. Kukhar" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:53:33 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > in cyrillic it's "=E2=EE=EA=E7=E0=EB" we -- russians, ukrainians, belorussians etc, what the difference :), aren't using "=E2=EE=EA=E7=E0=EB" without revision of what exactly, so: railway station is a "=C6=C4 (=E6=E5=EB=E5=E7=ED=EE=E4=EE=F0=EE=E6=ED= =FB=E9) =E2=EE=EA=E7=E0=EB" and bus terminal is a "=E0=E2=F2=EE=E2=EE=EA=E7=E0=EB". kyxap From ggm@apnic.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 06:01:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 64ee695c_8744_11d8_94b8_00304828b574_26081; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C09344344 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6341b2a8_8744_11d8_8b93_00304828b574_26064; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9AD587580FC; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:01:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFD77580FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:01:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 623f53e2_8744_11d8_9044_00304828b574_26034; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:01:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A698E344DB2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:00:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4fd42066_8744_11d8_8604_00304828b574_25716; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:00:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0899819B54; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AB8619EC8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:00:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2ACA719B54; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44AF919B3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i35KxONZ003064 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:59:25 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] train stations Message-Id: <20040405175924.69485776@garlic> In-Reply-To: <0844d4730d503fcee80f873ed35defeb@snellwilcox.com> References: <0844d4730d503fcee80f873ed35defeb@snellwilcox.com> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.9claws17 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-netbsdelf1.6ZI) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.127 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100.127 (notspam) BAYES_20,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:59:24 -0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:00:16 +0100 plan9fans@ntlworld.nospam.com wrote: >wasn't it vauxhall station ? > >-Steve See? I knew my mother wasn't a liar! I just confused the czar with the tsar. -George From 9nut@9netics.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 07:01:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd8dbf96_874c_11d8_8805_00304828b574_6860; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D5634437E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd28a106_874c_11d8_8fca_00304828b574_6857; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8516E7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:01:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460E97580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccedea02_874c_11d8_8c70_00304828b574_6854; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A0C34437E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc3f6748_874c_11d8_809c_00304828b574_6850; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA50219EBB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F14DF19EBE; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:01:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8398519ED2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E38CB19EBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040405164248.02b9c728@mail.village.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:00:28 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was >>practically Morse code when it came to the number of acronyms per >>sentence, boy, was I wrong: "AFAIR I've RSVPed for the FAQ session before >>COB"! >>And that's *spoken* language! > > To have a PKI application reviewed for acceptance by the U.S. military, > you'll need > to apply to the DoD/DISA/JITC/PKITC/PKE AP program. "Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, should we keep the PC on the QT, 'cause if it leaks to the VC, he could end up a MIA and we'd all be put on KP." - Robin Williams as Adrian Cronauer From rsc@swtch.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 07:14:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9c42b73c_874e_11d8_8db0_00304828b574_8999; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBBF3443E3 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9c125c54_874e_11d8_9e89_00304828b574_8996; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2E8C87580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:14:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92E27580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9bd217b6_874e_11d8_9dd4_00304828b574_8993; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70403443E3 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:14:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b23b3ce_874e_11d8_9d06_00304828b574_8989; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D74B819EED; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA11B19EB7; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C90819EBB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96D2819ED9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swtch.com (lusitania.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.154]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFCC24FE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4071DA05.9020506@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031221 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] patches? we don't need no steenkin' patches! Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:13:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=PLING_QUERY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've dug myself out of the patches on sources and the 9trouble mail, and also set up a reminder email so that we notice patches quicker. If you want to see the patches that have been applied (or not) you can run "patch/list applied" (or "patch/list sorry"). Thanks to everyone who has been sending changes in. Russ From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 08:02:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 53acd780_8755_11d8_8199_00304828b574_17956; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:02:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1D9345003 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5363c20c_8755_11d8_89d4_00304828b574_17953; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B16CF7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:02:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D847580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5324926c_8755_11d8_800b_00304828b574_17950; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:02:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68509345003 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:02:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 526c93ce_8755_11d8_8b1b_00304828b574_17946; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:02:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0722319EF6; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9017A19EEB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A11B19CE8; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0508919B41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <321558-1213>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:53:40 -0400 Message-ID: <055701c41b58$39a05f60$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:51:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Moldovians are much less Russians than Bulgarians are. Tame your > chauvinism. 207 From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 08:51:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 287ed37c_875c_11d8_8c13_00304828b574_29564; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:51:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08409344450 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:51:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 284d1b3e_875c_11d8_899b_00304828b574_29561; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:51:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DE24C7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:51:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ABA7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:51:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 280cd466_875c_11d8_9d90_00304828b574_29558; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:51:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1345344450 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:51:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 275cef38_875c_11d8_8f0e_00304828b574_29554; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:51:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F09119EF3; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C3A119EEB; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A38E19EEA; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD98919EE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <312209-19152>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:48:58 -0400 Message-ID: <05dd01c41b5f$f1385360$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3606978edd0370513664efc164cb68c3@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] train stations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:47:12 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > wasn't it vauxhall station ? yup, just north of brixton, but south of the river [take your passport]. From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 10:42:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac3c30c4_876b_11d8_879d_00304828b574_22766; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D591344E16 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac0b5738_876b_11d8_9c66_00304828b574_22763; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6085E7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190E67580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abcc73ba_876b_11d8_9cd8_00304828b574_22760; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:42:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F09344E16 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:42:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab1da510_876b_11d8_92b0_00304828b574_22755; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:42:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9EB0119AE9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4955719D31; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:42:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 364C019AE9; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams006.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n06.valueweb.net [216.219.253.152]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E37D19ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <360067-7425>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:37:43 -0400 Message-ID: <065501c41b6f$1c7f6f90$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net><6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:35:39 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The French do this too, as I am sure Boyd can point out. well languages are hard. i'd rather say: t'en veux? instead of: do you want some? > Maybe the Sovs got it from the French? perhaps, french being the diplomatic language. > And I wish I knew if the 'waterloo == station' urban myth both. a tubestation and a battle. ps. send the JD. From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 11:03:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9932aa6e_876e_11d8_9295_00304828b574_30067; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6F7344567 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 990197da_876e_11d8_8fed_00304828b574_30061; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E91CD7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:03:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9657580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 98c2e170_876e_11d8_8519_00304828b574_30055; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8B3344567 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:03:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9814acea_876e_11d8_852c_00304828b574_30051; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C78ED19F40; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 970DD19EB5; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC36319EFD; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams002.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n02.valueweb.net [216.219.253.98]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC78619ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <327242-19149>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:59:09 -0400 Message-ID: <069b01c41b72$19947d40$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> <20040405192958.GF28438@submarine> Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:39:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was > practically Morse code ... -.-. --.- From rvs@sun.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 11:06:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06dacdf8_876f_11d8_9aad_00304828b574_30571; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DE834456A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06a34f04_876f_11d8_9c76_00304828b574_30568; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DED4F7580FB; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984D97580FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 066a7f08_876f_11d8_92e6_00304828b574_30565; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A438434456A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 05baffce_876f_11d8_9415_00304828b574_30560; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05D0B19F33; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79C7E19F09; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F1C719F05; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03A9D19ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3625Pio001037 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id i3625O9s022613 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id i3625O529920 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Message-ID: <20040406020524.GA29916@submarine> References: <200404051818.i35IIoF8051864@adat.davidashen.net> <6024ad0f2bf35bbc6b09f9e0127fde44@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040405161152.6c83c9ff@garlic> <20040405192958.GF28438@submarine> <069b01c41b72$19947d40$084b7d50@SOMA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <069b01c41b72$19947d40$084b7d50@SOMA> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:05:24 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:39:44AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was > > practically Morse code ... > > -.-. --.- .-- - ..-. ..--.. From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 6 19:52:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 13:41:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adef8b0a_8784_11d8_82af_00304828b574_2375; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A645B344550 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adaef7e8_8784_11d8_976c_00304828b574_2365; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 11B0C75810D; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DB47580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a64055ce_8784_11d8_9710_00304828b574_2258; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:41:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1950D344658 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:38:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 41ee779a_8784_11d8_8ab6_00304828b574_725; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:38:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4C8B19EF0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30E1819C48; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABD1619C48; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F32119A33 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6a648d4b4671b665cce2a9724517c9fa@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <40719C26.60501@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:38:02 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the weekend, a machine with a working ip/httpd/wikipost. i think > i've fixed the problem. Thank you very much, Russ. I have very faint memory of this. However, the URL on Wiki was shown like [abcd | http://www.abcd.efg.com] from the beginning? Kenji From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 6 19:52:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 13:49:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cbb49a12_8785_11d8_82b7_00304828b574_4212; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309B534467D for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb7fa0a0_8785_11d8_8d88_00304828b574_4209; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2073B7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F7B7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb462c6c_8785_11d8_94e5_00304828b574_4206; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BB934467D for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca97b876_8785_11d8_9825_00304828b574_4196; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9235B19EFA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D42819E8C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:49:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9044A19D7C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E739719C07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <01fe01c41af2$d5d720f0$084b7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:38 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> The ogle movie free software is from se domain... > > under .se law that is 'fair use' [copy whatever you like, but don't use it > for a commercial purpose]. Hmm, once upon a time, all the Unix sources are hided from usual programmer by its Copyright, and only limited large company and some big Univ. had right to touch them. On that time, movement of free software, typically FSF, had its value to do. However, now, there is or should not be no such thing in the real lunix world except only in Windows world. In such circumstance, what means free software now. What they are fighting for? Is it your claim? Kenji From geoff@collyer.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 14:26:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f90aa4a2_878a_11d8_8b0e_00304828b574_11844; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:26:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB077345175 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8cefd3a_878a_11d8_9797_00304828b574_11841; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9E4417580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:26:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4831B7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8912d7a_878a_11d8_98b0_00304828b574_11838; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C53A345175 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7bea058_878a_11d8_98c6_00304828b574_11834; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2D2019F40; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CB8919EDF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19A2F19EF0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BEBA719EDF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <638fc47f04564c204ca6da8f641751d6@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:25:52 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: `fair use' is a legal doctrine legitimising personal use, or use of small portions, of movies, music, books, etc. that would require the payment of extra licensing fees if used commercially in their entirety. It shows up in copyright law in particular. The movie and music industries seem to be arguing that fair use really doesn't exist for digital media and thus music-sharing and the like are illegal and should be severely punished (even if they don't harm CD sales). Laws such as the American DMCA, which outlaw reverse-engineering and extend copyright for decades so that Disney can retain its copyright on the oldest Mickey Mouse cartoons (Steamboat Willy, in which Mickey is scarcely recognisable to the modern eye) encourage these arguments. Passage of the DMCA and similar laws, and attempts to export them to the rest of the world via stealth or gun-boat diplomacy, however, suggest a corrupt legislature and international trade system, bought, sold and paid for by the giant multinational corporations. Access to Unix source was restricted by Trade Secret law, which is different from copyright law. The difficulty with such protection is that you have to actually make strenuous efforts to keep the trade secrets secret. Once the DVD `encryption' (actually obfuscation) scheme became known around the world, the movie industry was unable (eventually) to successfully argue in court that it was still a trade secret. The courts found in the USL vs. BSDI case that ATT/USG/USDL/USL/nom-du-jour had, in practice, failed to keep the Unix source code and the ideas embodied therein secret, despite contractual language that required licencees to keep the source secret and forbade (since V7) teaching the internals (thus the suppression of the Lions book, though I'm not sure why the Bach book was permitted, maybe lack of any actual Unix source). In particular, many universities, especially early on, were fairly casual about granting students source access without making them sign iron-clad legal contracts, and arguably ATT should have been tougher with the universities (though we'd all be poorer now if they had). By the time of V8, the legal agreements were tougher and we did indeed take them seriously. I hope it's not a gross violation to reveal this after almost 20 years. Here's the initial /etc/motd from V8: Welcome to Eighth Edition Unix. You may be sure that it is suitably protected by ironclad licences, contractual agreements, living wills, and trade secret laws of every sort. A trolley car is certain to grow in your stomach if you violate the conditions under which you got this tape. Consult your lawyer in case of any doubt. If doubt persists, consult our lawyers. Please commit this message to memory. If this is a hardcopy terminal, tear off the paper and affix it to your machine. Otherwise take a photo of your screen. Then delete /etc/motd. Thank you for choosing Eighth Edition Unix. Have a nice day. I am not a lawyer and Dennis will no doubt correct me if I've got things wrong. From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 14:58:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 773432c2_878f_11d8_97af_00304828b574_19239; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:58:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39AB344497 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7601c8ba_878f_11d8_8c3a_00304828b574_19232; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:58:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5858A758102; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106E07580FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7502651e_878f_11d8_9937_00304828b574_19217; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF93334471E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25916930_878f_11d8_95b9_00304828b574_18227; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 48C9319EF2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C253119CF9; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 728C919EC7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA47719C67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <638fc47f04564c204ca6da8f641751d6@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:56:21 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Thanks geoff. I have been noticed boyd claimed many time here against lunix or free software or open source movements (I'm not sure which one), and I also read many of this kinds from others here, too. So, I have been thought something not to be able to accept must be there in those movements from the view point of boyd and others. Then, I guessed it from my own experience. What the free software motions are fighting for now? There is no such thing "Death Star" anymore, in the lunix world... Kenji From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 15:01:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e63d4dac_878f_11d8_9cf0_00304828b574_20884; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:01:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7A83444D1 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e60be4ba_878f_11d8_86c2_00304828b574_20879; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6C6457580FB; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:01:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF38D758101 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:01:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3d3d50e_878f_11d8_99ed_00304828b574_20853; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:01:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56C73446BA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 670f4e72_878f_11d8_8d7d_00304828b574_19087; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:58:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B9E219F20; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48E8119F0F; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77C7919C67; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29A5519CF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <329511-6628>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:42:22 -0400 Message-ID: <073401c41b91$3d11ef90$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <638fc47f04564c204ca6da8f641751d6@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:40:04 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: From: "Geoff Collyer" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 > `fair use' is a legal doctrine legitimising personal use, or use of > small portions, of movies, music, books, etc. excellent post. 8th ed was only handed out to a small number [~10] of sites. it came on a 9 track and you were on your own. trivial job if you had comets and the space to run pjw's bitfs. that was not our [john/piers/me] case. but, it was amazing: we had some blits and 1 jerq [5620]. so, sue me if get my history wrong -- this is 20 years ago. From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 15:29:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c116574a_8793_11d8_9ad1_00304828b574_27365; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5799F34470C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c0e46050_8793_11d8_9020_00304828b574_27362; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 382EA7580FB; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:29:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34597580FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c0a31fb4_8793_11d8_91a7_00304828b574_27359; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F043B34470C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:29:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bff3fdcc_8793_11d8_8cd6_00304828b574_27351; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC2A319EDF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B644819E2F; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69EE019CF2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams004.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n04.valueweb.net [216.219.253.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 058BF19B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <333527-6628>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 02:20:36 -0400 Message-ID: <074b01c41b96$927bd590$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:18:12 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: From: "Kenji Okamoto" > I have been noticed boyd claimed many time here against lunix or > free software or open source movements (I'm not sure which one), gaijin dakara, wakaranai!! free software? i'm all for it, as long is there is no singing, bad code, unmaintainable crap etc etc ... free != good i gave Vita DES. it still runs on 4th Ed Vita inferno, with a few mods. forsyth asked and a said 'sure'. all i got out of it was a copy of 1st Ed. and no, i'm not complaining, much as i would like a royalty payment. the terms were than my name stayed on the code, no singng 'natch, and it was his/theirs. if you look carefully at the plan 9 doc you'll find an example, using me, as a way to prevent brute force attacks. i suggest that you do some RECON before assuming, because as some of us know: assumption is the the mother of all clusterfucks [between the sheets -- td] From geoff@collyer.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 16:12:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb38a3a8_8799_11d8_9a03_00304828b574_2527; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:12:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5034034520A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:12:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb04be76_8799_11d8_82ab_00304828b574_2524; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:12:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 376997580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:12:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8A27580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:12:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cac2a964_8799_11d8_8f71_00304828b574_2521; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:12:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B559E34520A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:12:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9f4422c_8799_11d8_963c_00304828b574_2517; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:12:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C843419A3E; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F59B19A69; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:12:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C288419F18; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B809D19F0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:11:23 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: My impression is that the main opposition for open source programmers these days are Microsoft and each other (because the other guys have the wrong flavour of open/free/fresh/new/blue licence, or they use the wrong window manager/system/background theme). Certainly the concern about pushing Windows off the desktop (crash!) in favour of Linux, that one see constantly in Slashdot, seems to support that, though I think it's fighting the last war, to some degree. My own view is that many people with access to Research Unix source learned good programming techniques, principles, ideas and style from much of it (no need to go into tbl, refer and uucp here). The Berkeley CSRG eventually replaced much of that code, but at least they had seen the original code, and their own code was improved by that exposure, but was not as good as the code they learned from. The early GNU people had very likely seen the CSRG code, and learned from that, but again, wrote code that wasn't as good as what they learned from. So with each reimplementation of now-fairly-old Unix programs, the code quality tends to get a little lower (there are exceptions: despite being written in C++, I'd argue that groff is better written than tbl, refer and possibly troff, but groff was originally the product of one person, and he was far from Cambridge). So my preferences in code would be, in order of decreasing desirability: Plan 9, Research Unix, OpenBSD (they at least try to pay attention to security issues), *BSD, Linux, full stop. Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than Windows): the distributions I've seen are just a collection of ~1,000 packages and, if they even come with sources, you hope you can compile them all, but they demand different prerequisite library versions (often for little or no reason), some of which are incompatible and can't co-exist, so it becomes a major pain to construct a consistent source tree, for which you have running binaries, and which you could recompile all (or part) of. The BSDs at least are integrated systems, maintained as systems, not packages, so they come with self-consistent sources, and you can compile them. For programs that aren't part of the core system (``ports''), they let `make' figure out the dependencies (novel!) and drag in the necessary prerequisites and they usually build (occasionally the gratuitous overspecificity of version numbers bites one in the ass; it's a real problem in the BSD/Linux world). If they'd just specify `needs version X.Y.Z of library foo, or later', life would be better, but they too often *demand* exactly version 1.17.4a3beta-02, no more, no less. The number of the counting shall be 1.17.4a3beta-02; 1.18 is right out. Of course 1.17.4a3beta-02 was stamped out world-wide on websites the nanosecond 1.17.4a3beta-03 appeared, so you can't find it for love nor money, unless you get lucky and Google cached it. If you're bored and have an afternoon, a fast machine, a broadband connection and ~10GBs of disk to kill, ask FreeBSD to build `gnucash': it drags in code and compiles and drags and compiles, but the best part is, it finally finishes after several hours of strenuous exertion and says roughly `okay, it's all built, now you just have to *manually* stitch these *two* Lisp interpreters together to make it work'. Yeah, right: you couldn't do that for me? It was at that point that I blew away the whole mess. I'd rather pay for Quicken on OS X than perform obscenities on Lisp interpreters (and there had to two, you see, because they couldn't agree on Scheme vs. some-other-random-flavour-of-Lisp). And of course there are the people who insist on programming in (shudder) Perl. Lordy, lordy, lordy. One is reminded of Phil Wadler on XML (see /sys/games/lib/fortunes): it's not a language (at least in the sense of having a finite or at least well-defined grammar, or at least a grammar!, and some attempt at having a minimal, non-redundant, orthogonal set of constructs that cover the application space of interest), it's not a sharp tool but rather a swiss-army gasoline-powered chainsaw, and it's not particularly good for doing anything. Sorry; I'm allergic to Perl. I don't know if that answers your questions, Kenji. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 16:37:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44297bf4_879d_11d8_91fc_00304828b574_10079; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:37:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74B93447A6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:37:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43f9b568_879d_11d8_8e89_00304828b574_10076; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:37:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 99A2C7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:37:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A717580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:37:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43bb019c_879d_11d8_9378_00304828b574_10073; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:37:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF833447A6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:37:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43085df8_879d_11d8_9205_00304828b574_10063; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:37:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DCB419F69; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F77219F0F; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:37:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82E4419F26; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C93F19F18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <569cfc592389c7766e4372f9d65c172f@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:34:03 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>value to do. However, now, there is or should not be no such thing in the real >>lunix world except only in Windows world. In such circumstance, what means oh no, there is plenty of binary-only in the linux world, kernel modules in particular. From t.lankots@aprote.ee Tue Apr 6 19:52:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 17:05:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b569162_87a1_11d8_9c59_00304828b574_15627; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:05:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF783447F2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:05:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b208504_87a1_11d8_88bb_00304828b574_15624; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:05:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E0C867580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:05:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4F97580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:05:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ae1e5d8_87a1_11d8_836f_00304828b574_15621; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:05:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0EA3447F2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:05:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a341430_87a1_11d8_8765_00304828b574_15617; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:05:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8637619F51; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 173D919F18; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63BC019EB9; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F19FF19D74 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i3683miI003387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:04:05 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05617C@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] x10 Thread-Index: AcQbpq3nfPMYvWDrQjiL3wSMycPbvgABdECg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:03:15 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than > Windows): the distributions I've seen are just a collection of ~1,000 Just for kicks, I checked the mozilla binary on my Slackware. On = startup, it has to drag in 29 (!) DLLs, some of which need other DLLs themselves. 'Orrible. > If they'd just specify `needs version X.Y.Z of library foo, or later', > life would be better, but they too often *demand* exactly version Because too often free =3D crap (Plan 9 is a noteworthy exception).=20 It is usual that the next version of a library is completely bolloxed.=20 Not to mention incompatible with the previous one. > And of course there are the people who insist on programming in > (shudder) Perl. Lordy, lordy, lordy. One is reminded of Phil Wadler It shows that Larry Wall is a linguist, not a CS major. And he probably hadn't access to the Research Edition sources, either ;) > on XML (see /sys/games/lib/fortunes): it's not a language (at least in The problem with XML is that it's a variant of SGML and thus not a programming language per definition. Another idea pushed too far. From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 19:52:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 18:07:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d63323f4_87a9_11d8_8c19_00304828b574_29766; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:07:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44FB3448B5 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5fbdc0a_87a9_11d8_902a_00304828b574_29763; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 856847580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CEAA7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5bb5036_87a9_11d8_9539_00304828b574_29760; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171C03448B5 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4ec7ed2_87a9_11d8_88f7_00304828b574_29756; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6720119FA4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 723E219F69; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:07:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 929C419F69; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57FD419F34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 04:50:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in understanding the motivations of the Free/=0FOpen software people, it often helps to split the two out. the FSF, led by RMS, believes that closed-source, proprietary software is immoral, bad, evil. he believes there is a moral imperative to release all source openly, preferably under a license that, in his view, "protects" a certain set of "freedoms" (the quotes are because, in reality, licenses like the GPL are explicitly about limiting what you can do with the code, in contrast to, say, the BSD or MIT licenses). the OSS folks, led mostly by ESR, believe that closed-source, proprietary software is stupid, broken, dangerous. he/they seem to believe that you can't (or at least are infinitly unlikely to) have good code, secure systems, or whatever with closed source. they hold sacred the community review process. [end summary ; begin short rant] i think both these men/movements are wrong, and that RMS and the FSF people, in particular, are dilusional. it's nice for RMS that his MacArthur grant means he doesn't really have to work for a living, but most of us don't have people handing us large wads of cash. most of us have bills to pay, and writing code to solve problems that other people need solved seems like a reasonable way to do it. the idea that i've got a moral right to work you've done (or vice versa) is somewhere between distasteful and offensive. for ESR, i think he's just provably wrong: i have seen no evidence that open source projects produce better results than closed source ones (unless you measure "better" purely on bulk). i've seen 2nd ed. Plan 9 source (before it qualified as "open"), and i've seen Linux source. i'm no kernel hacker, but i can read and mostly understand the former; the later gives me headaches. and the Linux source is, in terms of quality and clenlyness, on the upper end of the GNU software scale. i like the idea of giving code to the community. my current spare time project will be given away when done. but the idea that doing so is either a moral responsability or somehow makes the code better seems like nonsense. okay, back to doing things that pay those bills... =E3=82=A2 From t.lankots@aprote.ee Tue Apr 6 19:52:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 18:20:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6d848d0_87ab_11d8_8e9d_00304828b574_758; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:20:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 386113448CA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:20:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6a2f0cc_87ab_11d8_9620_00304828b574_752; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:20:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2642A7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:20:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33BC7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:20:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a66b322c_87ab_11d8_957c_00304828b574_749; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:20:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB033448CA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:20:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a5bbc86e_87ab_11d8_9718_00304828b574_738; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:20:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E186C19D45; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 758A119BC9; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:20:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A671119BC9; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E90219B8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i369JuVi004414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:19:57 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05617D@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] x10 Thread-Index: AcQbtpwZlDKmhllAQ/2z/01Za43QHwAAKU3A From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:19:22 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: PiBpIGxpa2UgdGhlIGlkZWEgb2YgZ2l2aW5nIGNvZGUgdG8gdGhlIGNvbW11bml0eS4gbXkgY3Vy cmVudCBzcGFyZQ0KPiB0aW1lIHByb2plY3Qgd2lsbCBiZSBnaXZlbiBhd2F5IHdoZW4gZG9uZS4g YnV0IHRoZSBpZGVhIHRoYXQgZG9pbmcNCj4gc28gaXMgZWl0aGVyIGEgbW9yYWwgcmVzcG9uc2Fi aWxpdHkgb3Igc29tZWhvdyBtYWtlcyB0aGUgY29kZQ0KPiBiZXR0ZXIgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBub25z ZW5zZS4NCg0KRXZlcnkgY29kZSBoYXMgYnVncywgbGVzdCB0aG91IHdvcmtldGggaW4gaHR0cDov L3d3dy5nc2ZjLm5hc2EuZ292Ly4NCkhlbmNlLCBpdCdzIGFsd2F5cyBoYW5keSAtIGFuZCBzb21l dGltZXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IC0gdG8gaGF2ZSB0aGUgc291cmNlLg0KKEF0IGxlYXN0IGZvciBhc3Nl c3Npbmcgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgcHJvZ3JhbW1lcnMgd2VyZQ0Kc3R1cGlkLCBpbmNvbXBldGVudCwg b3IgUmVhbCBQcm9ncmFtbWVycyBbd2hvLCBhcyB3ZSBhbGwga25vdywNCmRvbid0IHdyaXRlIGlu IFBhc2NhbF0pLiANCg0KVGhlIGxhY2sgb2Ygc291cmNlIGlzIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgdHdvIGJpZ2dl c3QgcHJvYmxlbXMgb2YgdGhlIFdpbmRvemUNCmNvbW11bml0eSAodGhlIG90aGVyIGJlaW5nIGEg dG9vIGRpdmVyc2UgKHBlcnZlcnNlPykgaGFyZHdhcmUgYmFzZSkuDQpFaCwgcHJvYmFibHkgaXQg d291bGQgYmUgdG9vIGVtYmFycmFzc2luZyB0byByZWxlYXNlIGFueXdheS4NCg== From matt@proweb.co.uk Tue Apr 6 19:52:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 18:34:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99df714c_87ad_11d8_9488_00304828b574_3364; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:34:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2E53448F1 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:34:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99a77a4e_87ad_11d8_8d56_00304828b574_3352; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:34:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4A6C37580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:34:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07697580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:34:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9957a442_87ad_11d8_831c_00304828b574_3334; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:34:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68CC3448F1 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:34:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 98902e6c_87ad_11d8_95c1_00304828b574_3309; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:34:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35D2619F34; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDD3019F25; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35EA619F20; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDCF819EDF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:36:04 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the idea that i've got a moral right to work you've done (or vice versa) is somewhere between distasteful and offensive. I think you mis-represent the GNU goals here. The GPL only requires you to pay the price of revealing your derivative source code if it is derived from another GPLd work. I, for one, can't see what's wrong with that. You might not like the code that comes out of that model but I think the world is a better place for 1000s of rough GPL programs than 1000s of rough binaries. m From 9nut@9netics.com Tue Apr 6 19:52:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 18:42:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3b757aa_87ae_11d8_9889_00304828b574_4790; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F2934490C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b385ac28_87ae_11d8_8baf_00304828b574_4787; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:42:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 33D0F7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:42:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF237580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3454be2_87ae_11d8_882d_00304828b574_4781; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC7B34490C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:42:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2976810_87ae_11d8_8d33_00304828b574_4777; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:42:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CA9219F53; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F31A19F39; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:42:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63A9619BE7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 549D119EFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7ff77f951d0798f7e9b3695ccbb25275@9netics.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:41:40 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > most > of us have bills to pay, and writing code to solve problems that > other people need solved seems like a reasonable way to do it. the > idea that i've got a moral right to work you've done (or vice versa) > is somewhere between distasteful and offensive. for ESR, i think he's > just provably wrong: i have seen no evidence that open source > projects produce better results than closed source ones (unless you > measure "better" purely on bulk). By definition very few have seen the closed ones, and can't really talk about it. Five will get you ten that Windows XP source is orders of magnitude messier that Linux. As far as ownership of the work, one could in fact lock up whatever one "creates", and eliminate the danger of anyone knowing about it at all. At the risk of stating the obvious, it is about software-libre not software-gratis. M$ protects its Windows source code, not because they think people will stop paying them royalties -- they can easily enforce that with their lawyers and contracts with manufacturers as they have -- but because they are worried somebody will produce a "plug compatible" version. What is the danger in that? It exposes the market they solely own to others. Hiding the source is hiding knowledge. If every human being through the ages did that, we'd all still be reinventing the wheel and throwing rocks. From t.lankots@aprote.ee Tue Apr 6 19:52:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 18:56:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adf34278_87b0_11d8_93e4_00304828b574_7285; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:56:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D7434521B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adc1525e_87b0_11d8_98d9_00304828b574_7282; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 83E447580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C62A7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad82cd36_87b0_11d8_8777_00304828b574_7279; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A75734521B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id acd464bc_87b0_11d8_99dd_00304828b574_7275; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5F3F19FA4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF00219F69; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 104D319F94; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5EE319F53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i369tvDj004885 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:55:57 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05617E@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] x10 Thread-Index: AcQbu5DoHd/Vh7crTiKRJ9aUkIIuwQAAEPFg From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:55:23 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > "plug compatible" version. What is the danger in that? It exposes > the market they solely own to others. Hiding the source is hiding > knowledge. If every human being through the ages did that, we'd all > still be reinventing the wheel and throwing rocks. Yup, 100% pure laboratory-grade human greed, combined with a=20 "flexible" conscience. I'm getting convinced that it is impossible to=20 achieve personal net woth exceeding $10M without compromising with morale. Thus, capitalism is a flawed experiment. The means to produce should be owned by the ones producing... (goes on ranting) From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 23:00:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 20:34:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d739250_87be_11d8_91cc_00304828b574_31622; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:34:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BCF3442CA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:34:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d4335b0_87be_11d8_8f4a_00304828b574_31618; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:34:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E6E55758103; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:33:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562BA7580FA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:33:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4aa846d8_87be_11d8_9101_00304828b574_31526; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:33:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2383442CA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:30:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7fd273e_87bd_11d8_8deb_00304828b574_29894; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:30:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3CC419F2C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9745519F3C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:30:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2DBD19F2C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF53B19E3D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0eabd6a18bb35408a4bca98ac73da37b@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:23:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // I think you mis-represent the GNU goals here. well, possibly: i certainly don't speak for them. RMS has, however, on several occasions, stated outright that he believes free software to be a fundamental moral right. i think the rest follows from that belief. i don't think there's anything *wrong* (morally) with the GPL: sure, it's certainly reasonable to expect people to share what they produce from stuff they got for free. no argument. but i don't see how that's inherently *better* (again, morally) than letting people do whatever they want with stuff you make. RMS's stated position is that the GPL is morally better because it protects certain rights that he cares about at the expense of others he doesn't. that's a perfectly valid choice for him to make, but the idea that it's universally ture... well, i'm just not sold. to me, BSD or public-domain style gifting seems to have the moral high ground, if any do, in that it's much more selfless. and that all being said, i'll agree that the world is better for having 1000+ crap source files than 1000+ equivalent crap binaries. but that's somewhat irrelavent. that fact is true regardless of the license model used for them. =E3=82=A2 From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 23:00:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 20:35:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89d97a3e_87be_11d8_83b2_00304828b574_32548; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:35:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E2B3448D8 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:35:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89a5a40c_87be_11d8_98aa_00304828b574_32542; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:35:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E7AE67580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:35:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E180758103 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:35:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86ae98e4_87be_11d8_96ba_00304828b574_32499; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:35:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA543449F2 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:33:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36b0e220_87be_11d8_93a2_00304828b574_31294; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:33:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70EF019F56; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8B5C19F34; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:33:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 614D619F2C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6758319EFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <7ff77f951d0798f7e9b3695ccbb25275@9netics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:29:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // If every human being through the ages did that, [hid knowledge] // we'd all still be reinventing the wheel and throwing rocks. only in the absolute. allowing inventors to profit from their work also encourages future invention. there's a balance to be struck. current laws in the US involving generic drugs are one (very imperfect) example. original, pre-Disney copyright is another. =E3=82=A2 From ggm@apnic.net Tue Apr 6 23:00:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 20:50:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b8d5064_87c0_11d8_9626_00304828b574_2797; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B399D344A45 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:50:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b5ae28c_87c0_11d8_974f_00304828b574_2794; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:50:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 95F0F7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:50:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560177580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:50:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b2088bc_87c0_11d8_9157_00304828b574_2791; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:50:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A488344A47 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:50:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9a6be25e_87c0_11d8_9eec_00304828b574_2780; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:50:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5666319F4D; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 748B019F44; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7640319F2C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B194F19A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i36Bn6NZ005330 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:49:12 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20040406084905.06c86f19@garlic> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws33 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Subject: [9fans] Rob makes Dave Farbers 'vanity publishing' list Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:49:05 -0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Rob gets a paragraph from a blog uplifted to the Dave Farber 'interesting people' list (it has to be the most narcissistic email list out, no possible mention of Mr Farbers daily ritual passes by without a mention, but since he swings with the FCC, he still gets his messages out. http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200404/msg00066.html : : Rob Pike has gone to Google. Yes, that Rob Pike -- the OS researcher, the member of the original Unix team from Bell Labs. This guy isn't just some labs hood ornament; he writes code, lots of it. Big chunks of whole new operating systems like Plan 9. : : not *JUST* a 'lab hood ornament' ... very inclusive language there :-) -George From davel@anvil.com Tue Apr 6 23:00:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 20:58:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b87d7aea_87c1_11d8_8caf_00304828b574_4096; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D5F344A63 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b847c92c_87c1_11d8_8813_00304828b574_4093; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 99A807580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A08C7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b8020fc2_87c1_11d8_8905_00304828b574_4089; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467D2344A63 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7488dae_87c1_11d8_8e6f_00304828b574_4085; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C66C19F3F; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 090F519EB1; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DB4A19EB1; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 186CC19B5D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 50C613C8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:57:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3BE3C2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:57:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:57:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6bbb2eaa8c8868ea3f540495f9ff016a@9srv.net> References: <6bbb2eaa8c8868ea3f540495f9ff016a@9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081252603.6510.25.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:56:43 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > all americans are either cowering in their duct-tape-sealed homes > or have left the country. besides, only terrorists use free software. > > (yes, it's meant to be a joke, although i wish it was farther from > reality. bah.) Amen. > also: bomb, terror, semtex, NSA, congres. hello eschelon, carnivore! :-). "Congress", please, and "Echelon": you mustn't confuse the wee beastie with inaccurate spelling! ... SWP, IMG, Ghadaffi ... Damn. Just realised that "Ghadaffi" probably doesn't work any more:-). Dave. From g.pavelcak@comcast.net Tue Apr 6 23:00:03 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 21:26:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a30a12b4_87c5_11d8_8266_00304828b574_10172; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BDA344E94 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2d8f120_87c5_11d8_993c_00304828b574_10169; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A48627580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C5057580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a29a51c2_87c5_11d8_8017_00304828b574_10166; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5CB344E94 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1ec75fc_87c5_11d8_806d_00304828b574_10162; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 179B819F47; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44CF919F53; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E6AF19F42; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A4B719F47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brain.org (h004005b2f1be.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.62.113.60]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004040612250801100c3b1te>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:25:08 +0000 Message-ID: <4b2d7b5d36abe264ceb680d134967d2a@comcast.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Greg Pavelcak In-Reply-To: <1081252603.6510.25.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:21:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> all americans are either cowering in their duct-tape-sealed homes >> or have left the country. besides, only terrorists use free software. >> >> (yes, it's meant to be a joke, although i wish it was farther from >> reality. bah.) > > Amen. > "farther from reality"? Just how much farther from reality can you get? Greg From matt@proweb.co.uk Tue Apr 6 23:00:03 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 21:26:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id acdaa218_87c5_11d8_8bcd_00304828b574_10194; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E651344E94 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac9f78a0_87c5_11d8_8aa3_00304828b574_10188; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 19A047580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD867580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac68cfb2_87c5_11d8_995d_00304828b574_10185; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D16344E94 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:26:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abba47b2_87c5_11d8_8e9b_00304828b574_10180; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:26:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BCDB219F5C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4636C19F4D; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:26:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9842719F42; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FA3519C41 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79b487c902aaae69762c013d51fe580c@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <0eabd6a18bb35408a4bca98ac73da37b@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:27:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm with you re. morality "Morality is the penury of faith and trust and the beginning of confusion." "[RMS] stated outright that he believes free software to be a fundamental moral right." I can't quote him or contradict you but if one writes "I consider access to free software to be a fundamental right." it sounds a bit better :) > having 1000+ crap source files than 1000+ equivalent crap binaries. > but that's somewhat irrelavent. that fact is true regardless of the > license model used for them. I think that if it wasn't for the GPL then far more of the source would be shipped as binary. Just look at the world of Windows. Where is all the BSD licensed Windows software? In the end I think it is the *idea* of the GPL that is important. Hack away at something that you find interesting, copying and pasting bits you don't understand and stick the results in sourceforge under the GPL. The GPL protects your feeling of security that someone won't come along, finish it and pump it out for $300 a pop and you and your contributors got $0. You need that kind of idealism, all middle ground needs extremes. With no GPL I'm willing to bet that plan9 would not have gone open source and when it became abandonware it would have sat inside a Bell-Labs dusty cupboard, lost forever. I'm quite happy to solve people's problems for money and not give them a line of source, even obfuscating bits or running daemons on my network. That's business. But I'll never run Gnome :) m From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 6 23:00:04 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 22:05:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15a5859c_87cb_11d8_85f0_00304828b574_20049; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0EC344A9B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15659022_87cb_11d8_9069_00304828b574_20046; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 526CC7580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4FE7580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15275d8e_87cb_11d8_89d7_00304828b574_20043; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5F5344A9B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:05:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 147a1e3a_87cb_11d8_8c04_00304828b574_20039; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:05:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE35119F34; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0622F19F34; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12AE519F45; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCC7D19F34 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9ce6d910b11b7a355e5f60994fba716b@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <79b487c902aaae69762c013d51fe580c@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:53:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // Just look at the world of Windows. Where is all the // BSD licensed Windows software? um, there's not exactly a *ton* of GPL code for Win32, either. some, sure= , but the dearth of both is due, i believe, do the nature of the underlying system.=20 // With no GPL I'm willing to bet that plan9 would not have gone open sou= rce... while i'm not willing to take that bet, i'm not backing it, either. sever= al of the labs folks have been fighting with lawyers to get as much out the doo= r as possible for years before the GPL was the force it is today. and i believ= e the shift in the lawyers ability to listen is due more to changes in the worl= d at large than to the GPL (although it likely helped). that said, you point is probably valid: it's certainly been the case with various hardware manufacturers that produce drivers for linux that wouldn= 't otherwise be likely to give out the info. anyway, i'm not looking to put down the GPL. it's fine for what it is and what it does. it's actually *especially* useful for companies producing t= heir own code, all FUD aside. what strikes me as "bad" is the idea that the GP= L has a moral advantage over BSD/MIT licenses. anyway, tangential references to plan9 aside, this has gone fairly far of= f topic. whatever license you like is fine: if i don't like it, i simply won't use your stuff. there's always a choice. =E3=82=A2 From pb@research.bell-labs.com Tue Apr 6 23:00:04 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 6 22:15:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c603a1a_87cc_11d8_9280_00304828b574_21795; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:15:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A281344AB6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:15:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c2a6944_87cc_11d8_8120_00304828b574_21792; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:15:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3CBF37580FA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:15:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76687580F9 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:15:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7bea3fea_87cc_11d8_8bda_00304828b574_21789; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:15:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DC9344AB6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:15:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b38e84e_87cc_11d8_9a82_00304828b574_21766; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:15:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0495919E9C; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D3BDD19F53; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:15:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9A7A19F53; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (outside.cs.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD9F619E9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c806dc17e198357b033c8ae81271a3d@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: Peter Bosch In-Reply-To: <20040406020524.GA29916@submarine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:08:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:39:44AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: >> > P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was >> > practically Morse code ... >> >> -.-. --.- > > .-- - ..-. ..--.. #include #include #include #include static char*asciitab[] = { ".-", // A "-...", "-.-.", "-..", ".", "..-.", "--.", "....", "..", ".---", "-.-", ".-..", "--", "-.", "---", ".--.", "--.-", ".-.", "...", "-", "..-", "...-", ".--", "-..-", "-.--", "--..", // Z }; static char*numtab[] = { "-----", // 0 ".----", "..---", "...--", "....-", ".....", "-....", "--...", "---..", "----.", }; static struct { char c; char *m; } specials[] = { { '.', ".-.-.-" }, { ',', "--..--" }, { '?', "..--.." }, { '@', ".--.-." }, { ' ', " " }, }; int morsefmt(Fmt *f) { char *p, *src, *dst, c; int rv, len, i; src = va_arg(f->args, char*); len = strlen(src); p = dst = malloc(len * 6 + 1); if(dst == nil) return fmtstrcpy(f, "(romanfmt)"); while(c = *src++){ if(c == '\n') continue; if(isalpha(c)){ c = toupper(c); assert(c >= 'A' && c <= 'Z'); c -= 'A'; len = strlen(asciitab[c]); memcpy(p, asciitab[c], len); p += len; continue; } if(isdigit(c)){ assert(c >= '0' && c <= '9'); c -= '0'; len = strlen(numtab[c]); memcpy(p, numtab[c], len); p += len; continue; } for(i = 0; i < nelem(specials); i++) if(specials[i].c == c) break; if(i == nelem(specials)){ *p++ = '?'; continue; } len = strlen(specials[i].m); memcpy(p, specials[i].m, len); p += len; } *p = 0; rv = fmtstrcpy(f, dst); free(dst); return rv; } void main(void) { Biobuf b; char *p; Binit(&b, 0, OREAD); fmtinstall('M', morsefmt); while((p = Brdline(&b, '\n')) != nil){ p[Blinelen(&b)] = 0; print("[%s] %M\n", p, p); } Bterm(&b); exits(0); } From matthias@mteege.de Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:31:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e038e756_87e7_11d8_96f5_00304828b574_32473; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FAF9344EAD for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dffde2fa_87e7_11d8_98f6_00304828b574_32470; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 237027580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:31:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6EB7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dfbd3f16_87e7_11d8_975c_00304828b574_32467; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0A7344EAD for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:31:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df0f55f4_87e7_11d8_8077_00304828b574_32463; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18DA119FA3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BD5419FAF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B00EB19FA3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7771D19BE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10350 invoked by uid 66); 6 Apr 2004 16:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 17726 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 16:29:59 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 16:29:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 95044 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 16:29:59 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 16:29:59 -0000 Message-ID: From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] watch a second mailbox Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:29:10 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Moin, I use /mail/lib/rewrite to redirect some mails to a separate file. But watching this file with faces didn't work. I run faces with -i -m /mail/box/user/special. Isn't it possible or what do I missing? Many thanks Matthias From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:32:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb5950de_87e7_11d8_8364_00304828b574_32620; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993A6344EB0 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb0850f8_87e7_11d8_8b3d_00304828b574_32616; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8706D7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194AB7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fab85508_87e7_11d8_8cac_00304828b574_32613; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:32:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E21344EB0 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9c93694_87e7_11d8_8828_00304828b574_32609; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:32:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC04C19FBF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19E2C19FC6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5EF3719FBF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DC1F19FB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 81A58442; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:30:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C898436 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:30:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:30:56 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-wSEMZaEoqgPCBzLqaBRe" Message-Id: <1081268998.6510.733.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Subject: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:29:59 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --=-wSEMZaEoqgPCBzLqaBRe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, We've got broadband! (Well, some scrawny fragment of a 1e6 to 1 contended knackered old BT ADSL connection anyway:-). So, if someone (Matt?) wants to bring a WiFi router, and I'm sure I can scrounge a couple of 4-way hubs too. Also, I'm about to stump up =C2=A3120(~=E2=82=AC180) for the deposit, so now is the time to either chicken out, or spread the word (and the cost!). Let's see if we can make it to 20 participants (=C2=B1Boyd:-)! Cheers, Dave. --=-wSEMZaEoqgPCBzLqaBRe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Forwarded message - RE: internet in the upper hall Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from anvil.com (gatekeeper [192.168.4.253]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA01659 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:41:47 +0100 (BST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 2688A4B2; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:41:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from zinc.btinternet.com (zinc.btinternet.com [194.73.73.148]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A89497 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:41:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [81.134.198.52] (helo=union3jyb188p1) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #25) id 1BARGy-0006OW-00 for davel@anvil.com; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:24:08 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian" To: "'Dave Lukes'" Subject: RE: internet in the upper hall Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:22:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c41af7$e4979480$0200a8c0@union3jyb188p1> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1080924945.1704.1792.camel@rea> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Length: 1181 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tis indeed an RJ-45 Fraid it'll be time for a 30% deposit very shortly : ) -----Original Message----- From: Dave Lukes [mailto:davel@anvil.com] Sent: 02 April 2004 17:56 To: Ade Lukes Subject: RE: internet in the upper hall > network cable connection in the room, you mean RJ-45/telephone-jack style socket? > but will know all details by next week > (so you may want to put a wifi box/hub whatever on the end > in the room. No prob. > OK - well, if i get you the cable, i'll put an extra on - lets say it'll be closer to 400 if i guarantee cable access? > On the booze front - the Bar Manager says they can't really do > a sale or return, so the easiest thing to do is work out what > people want first then buy it in through us, or cheaper, go to > the pub for lunch... Cool. Any problem with us bringing booze in? X D. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.615 / Virus Database: 394 - Release Date: 08/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.615 / Virus Database: 394 - Release Date: 08/03/2004 --=-wSEMZaEoqgPCBzLqaBRe-- From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:36:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d5087dc_87e8_11d8_9abe_00304828b574_728; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:36:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A0C345274 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:36:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d203974_87e8_11d8_93a5_00304828b574_725; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:36:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 93ACF7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:36:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8427580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:36:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8cdf216e_87e8_11d8_9383_00304828b574_722; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:36:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CF4345274 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c30ee3c_87e8_11d8_822d_00304828b574_718; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C707819FCD; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9950819FC5; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DDBA19FC5; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DB6DE19FB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id socwcr65.371 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cwcr76 with SMTP id mr152; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] watch a second mailbox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:35:32 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i do this all the time, but use the plumber rather than a separate file. that is, if faces is receiving plumbing messages and upas/fs is always watching all relevant mailboxes (which may mean multiple upas/fs instances), it just works. -rob From plan9@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:40:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17f05de0_87e9_11d8_8861_00304828b574_1372; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A884345281 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17c021de_87e9_11d8_9a4c_00304828b574_1369; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2869A7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:40:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B757580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:40:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 177d45b2_87e9_11d8_96db_00304828b574_1366; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:40:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CF2345281 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:40:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16cf991c_87e9_11d8_9618_00304828b574_1362; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:40:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E287119FB6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A3AC19F81; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1142919F4D; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lagaffe.tombob.com (82-41-200-130.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.200.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909A619F81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8dfd181530f3372d0c690b43d5aa79a1@tombob.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] watch a second mailbox From: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:39:15 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I use /mail/lib/rewrite to redirect some mails to > a separate file. But watching this file with faces > didn't work. I run faces with -i -m > /mail/box/user/special. Is upas/fs watching as well? Faces reacts to plumb messages. Only in its seemail (faces -h) does it show a box directly. I watch several mailboxes like this in my profile: upas/fs -n echo 'open /imap/imap4.blueyonder.co.uk/myboxnumber rtr' >/mail/fs/ctl echo 'open /imap/imap4.blueyonder.co.uk/myboxnumber_2 p9' >/mail/fs/ctl and then have this in my riostart: window -r 100 0 500 120 faces -m /mail/fs/rtr window -r 500 0 900 120 faces -m /mail/fs/p9 Robby From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:49:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 684b7ab2_87ea_11d8_8318_00304828b574_4738; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:49:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA1A3441EB for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:49:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6813c446_87ea_11d8_924b_00304828b574_4730; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:49:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B1AA75810C; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:49:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CCE7580FC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:49:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 65988ee0_87ea_11d8_9318_00304828b574_4694; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BEC344219 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5f968f2_87e9_11d8_9b3b_00304828b574_3249; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4F9D19FD8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FE3F19FD0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCA7C19FB0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 851F619F81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <243c03345533dd02578210ec76349f1d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] watch a second mailbox From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:45:34 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i do this all the time, but use the plumber rather than a separate file. > that is, if faces is receiving plumbing messages and upas/fs > is always watching all relevant mailboxes (which may mean > multiple upas/fs instances), it just works. > > -rob % plumber; upas/fs -f /some/other/file; faces -i same trick (starting a new plumber) works when you want to keep different acme sessions for different things -- i have a second acme just for reading mail which i keep deep in the background. right-clicking on the face of a new email brings it on top. andrey From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 01:59:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb494058_87eb_11d8_8d93_00304828b574_8094; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:59:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D812344153 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:59:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb17f1ce_87eb_11d8_8ec4_00304828b574_8091; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:59:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 13A737580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:59:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC3C7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:59:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cad980ba_87eb_11d8_8d59_00304828b574_8088; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:59:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA74E344153 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:59:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca2a4b54_87eb_11d8_91b7_00304828b574_8081; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:59:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8613D19F68; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FD7C19CBF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:59:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71F0319E86; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E80D19D82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4ik012304 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4do008214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4wO026288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:58:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > the latest perpetrator was from Moldova. So what are we doing to do, hire Buford Pusser to go track 'em down and go drill a hole in them? Give it up. The Internet is a public urinal, nowadays. I'm begining to miss the '70s. We need a new 'run by fascists' Internet :-) ron From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:02:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3215f920_87ec_11d8_952a_00304828b574_8840; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0CE0344C15 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31e5203e_87ec_11d8_82d4_00304828b574_8837; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 86BCA7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFB27580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31a7f34e_87ec_11d8_9089_00304828b574_8834; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8DE344C15 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30f95d98_87ec_11d8_9b37_00304828b574_8829; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D68119EF2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 972AB19FC1; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:02:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5B87419FB8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams013.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n13.valueweb.net [216.219.253.195]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2091A19F99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <329346-28944>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:56:04 -0400 Message-ID: <087501c41bf7$b521cda0$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1081268998.6510.733.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:53:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i am now too broke to print them. in the spirit of open s/w i'll just mail the image(s) to whoever wants them or stick them on a web page. they look like this: http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/images/t/boyd.jpg From noah.evans@cwru.edu Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:07:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3e9a610_87ec_11d8_821f_00304828b574_9661; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95E3344C30 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e393ab98_87ec_11d8_8aed_00304828b574_9658; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9D9637580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:07:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A477580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e32d5258_87ec_11d8_9abd_00304828b574_9655; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:07:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57B6344C30 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2378486_87ec_11d8_846b_00304828b574_9651; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:07:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58B1E19FE6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 404FD19FDF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:07:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4736A19FD4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.med.unc.edu (ahoskie.med.unc.edu [152.19.4.48]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6483219FD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.222.128 (d8k4c531.med.unc.edu [152.19.50.16]) by smtp.med.unc.edu (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i36H6YCg026780 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: Noah Evans In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-imlomehkyedeycdycavaaxkozk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:06:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-imlomehkyedeycdycavaaxkozk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmmm... that got me thinking. How would the 9 folks implement the internet(meaning stuff like html) if given the chance? Especially the security model. I've seen alternate ideas referred to in the archives, but I don't recall any systematic discussion of it. Curious, Noah --upas-imlomehkyedeycdycavaaxkozk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (mpspam4.tis.case.Edu [129.22.104.191]) by ims-msg.cwru.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HVR0134WDUVGL@ims-msg.cwru.edu> for npe@cwru.edu; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) id AFH82889 (forwarded by mail filter of npe); Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (mirapoint1.TIS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.104.46]) by mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu (MOS 3.4.4-GR) with ESMTP id AFH82887; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mirapoint1.tis.cwru.edu (MOS 3.4.3-CR) with ESMTP id BDB11599; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29FAF19F77; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5810C19CBF; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71F0319E86; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E80D19D82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4ik012304 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4do008214 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36Gw4wO026288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0600 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:58:03 -0600 (MDT) From: ron minnich Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser In-reply-to: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Errors-to: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Reply-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-to: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mirapoint-Loop-ID: c05f0bfa927e5af67c26a2a7f4c06cf7 X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Junkmail-Status: score=0/45, host=mpspam4.TIS.case.Edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 List-Archive: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> Original-recipient: rfc822;npe@spamfree.cwru.edu On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > the latest perpetrator was from Moldova. So what are we doing to do, hire Buford Pusser to go track 'em down and go drill a hole in them? Give it up. The Internet is a public urinal, nowadays. I'm begining to miss the '70s. We need a new 'run by fascists' Internet :-) ron --upas-imlomehkyedeycdycavaaxkozk-- From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:19:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95229dfa_87ee_11d8_83e3_00304828b574_12173; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:19:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB19534416B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94f228a0_87ee_11d8_8bd3_00304828b574_12170; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AE17E7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:19:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64AE87580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94b220de_87ee_11d8_8fcc_00304828b574_12167; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B2734416B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:19:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9403b3e6_87ee_11d8_85e1_00304828b574_12163; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:19:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C81B919F5B; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CE5119FC0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:19:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DEBF419FC0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B11AF19F5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:18:04 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > How would the 9 folks implement the internet(meaning stuff like > html) if given the chance? Especially the security model. echo 'britney spears' > /mnt/web/google.com/searchctl cd /mnt/web/^`{cat /mnt/web/google.com/searchdata} page index.ps note the .ps -- there's no need for html anymore, you can link by plumbing file names... andrey From eric@willow.nutstreet.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:25:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68245f18_87ef_11d8_814e_00304828b574_13132; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CFC344C83 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67eef850_87ef_11d8_99e6_00304828b574_13129; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AE3C87580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:25:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653FC7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67b29608_87ef_11d8_9b49_00304828b574_13126; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F36344C83 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:25:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67085788_87ef_11d8_920c_00304828b574_13122; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:25:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7938E19FE7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EDBD19FDF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FB2C19FDF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1429B19F5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (adsl-66-139-38-41.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [66.139.38.41]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i36HNIjG016683 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i36HOXFJ016061 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:24:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i36HOXqp016057 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:24:33 -0500 From: Eric KD5UWL To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] In-Reply-To: <087501c41bf7$b521cda0$084b7d50@SOMA> Message-ID: References: <1081268998.6510.733.camel@zevon> <087501c41bf7$b521cda0$084b7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:24:32 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, I'm fairly new to plan 9 - just recently getting started. Have been a unix-er since 1994. I won't be coming to 9conlon (my last time in the UK was 1994, and due to the changes in my life since, I probably won't be back :) Even so, is it still possible for me to get one of those t-shirts? If so, how much $$, and who do I send it to? Also, any sizing guidance? I'm too ignorant to know if shirt sizes are the same in the US as the UK. Forgive me if there is a site with all this info already posted -- if there is, I don't know about it. Thanks in advance, Eric From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:37:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1828a030_87f1_11d8_99cb_00304828b574_15132; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:37:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D506344EC0 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:37:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17f7dbf8_87f1_11d8_983d_00304828b574_15129; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:37:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7FF167580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:37:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C037580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:37:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17b99ffa_87f1_11d8_8329_00304828b574_15126; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:37:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4A1344EC0 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:37:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 170fd466_87f1_11d8_86aa_00304828b574_15115; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:37:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA1EC19FEA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B51E419F6E; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2D5919FBF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63B1019F63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3b0759190d1b9798926d121cedeceea1@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:36:56 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Even so, is it still possible for me to get one of those t-shirts? If so, > how much $$, and who do I send it to? Also, any sizing guidance? I'm too > ignorant to know if shirt sizes are the same in the US as the UK. here's some plan9 merchandise: http://www.cafeshops.com/9grid http://www.cafeshops.com/lon9con the first one has no markup on t-shirts, the second does. there was yet another plan9 shop on cafepress, but it seems to have disappeared (search the comp.os.plan9 archives for it).. we don't know who set it up... andrey From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:42:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c708fbf4_87f1_11d8_8b17_00304828b574_15909; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086F5345298 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6d7a4be_87f1_11d8_965b_00304828b574_15906; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:42:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DF4D57580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:42:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977D67580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:42:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c698749c_87f1_11d8_90e9_00304828b574_15903; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:42:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA82345298 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:42:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5efb906_87f1_11d8_96dc_00304828b574_15899; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:42:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0431E19FF2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20B1719FBF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F99C19FCF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 78E0119F63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6ffba97b9fd3467d67d2d5cbbf07ba83@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] In-Reply-To: <1081268998.6510.733.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:43:34 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: yup, got an 802.11b router here and a 16 port 10/100 switch m From rsc@swtch.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 02:49:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c0dd2d62_87f2_11d8_9735_00304828b574_16865; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFD03452AC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c0ac2d3e_87f2_11d8_9635_00304828b574_16862; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0D9247580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:49:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40567580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c066a6d8_87f2_11d8_8410_00304828b574_16859; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A2B3452AC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:49:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bfbb2218_87f2_11d8_928c_00304828b574_16855; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84EE619FCB; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85E4319FD7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A011B19FD1; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8523E19FB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swtch.com (tux.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.157]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160F424FE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4072FB40.60208@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:47:28 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: andrey mirtchovski wrote: >>How would the 9 folks implement the internet(meaning stuff like >>html) if given the chance? Especially the security model. > > > echo 'britney spears' > /mnt/web/google.com/searchctl > cd /mnt/web/^`{cat /mnt/web/google.com/searchdata} > page index.ps maybe it's sufficiently advanced technology, but it sure looks like magic to me! From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:04:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d749c57c_87f4_11d8_835e_00304828b574_19356; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:04:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E193452CF for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d712ad26_87f4_11d8_9e20_00304828b574_19352; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A39307580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:04:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6253C7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d6dcded0_87f4_11d8_9179_00304828b574_19346; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E0E3452CF for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d6328084_87f4_11d8_8c0d_00304828b574_19342; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABCDE19FE4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E928719FD4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD50919FD4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0731A19FCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36I3Sik005076 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:03:28 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36I3Sdo011049 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:03:28 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36I3SwO029752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:03:28 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05617C@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:03:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Tiit Lankots wrote: > > Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than > > Windows): the distributions I've seen are just a collection of ~1,000 > > Just for kicks, I checked the mozilla binary on my Slackware. On startup, > it has to drag in 29 (!) DLLs, some of which need other DLLs themselves. > 'Orrible. yeah, well, just watch date(1) resolve 213 symbols sometime. to print today's date. Including threaded posix libraries for dns. It's really amazing, after we just saw Linus argue on this list how important TLB fault minimization is, to see how inefficient so many things are on Linux. They are so microbenchmark-driven that they oft-times miss the big picture, I think. ron From dfawcus@cisco.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:19:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2d0d950_87f6_11d8_9657_00304828b574_24976; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:19:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48D634421D for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f29a4930_87f6_11d8_8af7_00304828b574_24973; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D111F7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:19:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864D77580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f25f60f4_87f6_11d8_853a_00304828b574_24969; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:19:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9518E34421D for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1b2a12a_87f6_11d8_8466_00304828b574_24965; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F164C19E7E; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C734719BF4; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1739819FD7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAE7E19FC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2004 20:17:58 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i36IHSOM025345 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:17:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id TAA05470 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:17:55 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <20040406191753.C20708@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05617C@black.aprote.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from rminnich@lanl.gov on Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 12:03:28PM -0600 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:17:55 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 12:03:28PM -0600, ron minnich wrote: > > yeah, well, just watch date(1) resolve 213 symbols sometime. to print > today's date. Including threaded posix libraries for dns. Yeah it's a pain in the arse. I tend to compile things static these days - using a dietlibc. > It's really > amazing, after we just saw Linus argue on this list how important TLB > fault minimization is, to see how inefficient so many things are on Linux. > They are so microbenchmark-driven that they oft-times miss the big > picture, I think. I suspect a lot of people ignore the costs and delays being added to user mode... After severly hacking a RH install I got a more or less comfortable environment on my laptop, and a not unreasonable boot time - so I never suspend, just shutdown... but the laptop'll be replaced soon, so time to battle again - that'll be when plan9 gets a tryout on it. DF From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:21:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35cb14e6_87f7_11d8_8bb4_00304828b574_25259; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544F2344236 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 359a8e84_87f7_11d8_80ff_00304828b574_25256; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 35FAB7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:21:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDA17580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:21:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3559333a_87f7_11d8_9319_00304828b574_25253; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:21:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E37344236 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:21:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34a8cdce_87f7_11d8_8d5d_00304828b574_25249; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:21:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11F1819FE6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0263C19FD8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BD1419A77; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B520919FE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36IKkik009085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:20:46 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36IKkdo018667 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:20:46 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i36IKjwO030518 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:20:45 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <20040406191753.C20708@edinburgh.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:20:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Derek Fawcus wrote: > After severly hacking a RH install I got a more or less comfortable > environment on my laptop, and a not unreasonable boot time - so I never > suspend, just shutdown... but the laptop'll be replaced soon, so time to > battle again - that'll be when plan9 gets a tryout on it. two essential things Plan 9 lacks for laptops - sleep that works - hot plug devices (e.g. pcmcia, usb dongles, etc.) ron From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:23:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7daba460_87f7_11d8_9dc7_00304828b574_25536; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E158734425C for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d7942e0_87f7_11d8_8e9e_00304828b574_25533; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C38487580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:23:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7851B7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d379ff2_87f7_11d8_82d1_00304828b574_25530; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B23A34425C for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:23:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c8d651e_87f7_11d8_9035_00304828b574_25526; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A3FB19FEF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FF7319FD8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:23:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C909B19B27; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams005.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n05.valueweb.net [216.219.253.151]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 899AF19B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <3659598-27861>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:21:20 -0400 Message-ID: <08d101c41c03$99a985c0$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:18:39 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > yeah, well, just watch date(1) resolve 213 symbols sometime. to print > today's date. Including threaded posix libraries for dns. It's really > amazing, after we just saw Linus argue on this list how important TLB > fault minimization is, to see how inefficient so many things are on Linux. right. run strace on any given linux binary and watch the torrent of system calls before main() even gets called. it is truly appalling: From rog@vitanuova.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:44:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 72942702_87fa_11d8_97ee_00304828b574_29482; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7926344C71 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7263c92c_87fa_11d8_8bba_00304828b574_29479; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AA23B7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:44:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A4197580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 722977a4_87fa_11d8_9fa7_00304828b574_29476; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E5B344C71 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:44:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 717a1b42_87fa_11d8_9875_00304828b574_29472; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:44:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F57519FFF; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0AFD19FF6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DBDE19FEA; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BD4119BB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] x10 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:48:45 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > yeah, well, just watch date(1) resolve 213 symbols sometime. to print > today's date. it's funny, i was probably looking at the source to the plan 9 date command as you were writing that... it's perhaps an interesting example. i was looking back in the dump file system and wanted to know the exact modification times of some of the files there. ls changes its format for files older than 6 months, so: % cd /n/dump/2003/0916/usr/rog/limbo/schedule % ls -l scheduler.b --rw-r--r-- M 30 rog rog 10183 Sep 15 2003 scheduler.b % cat /dev/time 1081276575 1081276575299952521 8847783936768 305454592 % % fc 1081276575 6 30 24 60 60 x x x x - 1065724575 % ramfs % echo -n ' 1065724575 1065724575299952521 8847783936768 305454592' > /tmp/time % > /tmp/bintime; chmod 000 /tmp/bintime % bind -b /tmp /dev % date Thu Oct 9 19:36:15 BST 2003 % ls -l scheduler.b --rw-r--r-- M 30 rog rog 10183 Sep 15 22:07 scheduler.b % and there i was, back in time 6 months, and the files display their full timestamp as desired. how pleasant it is to be using a system where almost all resources are malleable, including time itself! From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 03:58:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 673159a0_87fc_11d8_8964_00304828b574_31693; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:58:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADB4344CB4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66ffa8ec_87fc_11d8_9ef5_00304828b574_31690; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8D03E7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:58:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4493D7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66bfc024_87fc_11d8_910b_00304828b574_31687; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587E3344CB4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:58:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66163374_87fc_11d8_8021_00304828b574_31683; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:58:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D286E19FF8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2AF0E19FA3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2695819FBD; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams003.ftl.affinity.com (lvs00-fl-n03.valueweb.net [216.219.253.136]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CEF319FA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA ([80.125.75.8]) by ams.ftl.affinity.com with SMTP id <316808-6180>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:50:22 -0400 Message-ID: <08f601c41c07$a725fd10$084b7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:47:41 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > how pleasant it is to be using a system where almost all resources > are malleable, including time itself! nice one. From enache@rdslink.ro Wed Apr 7 20:28:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 07:44:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa126600_881b_11d8_9ed2_00304828b574_14916; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F0F3443E4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9e1bb5e_881b_11d8_8165_00304828b574_14913; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 622D37580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C24E7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9a2bb20_881b_11d8_923d_00304828b574_14910; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB2C3443E4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8f4aa8a_881b_11d8_8699_00304828b574_14906; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B7E119F36; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17E0219E88; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:44:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 217AA19EF2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FA3F19DA8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17151 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 20:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) (81.196.254.186) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 20:43:44 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:46:29 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 a.d., rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > % bind -b /tmp /dev That could be dangerous too. I'd like a rfork flag to prevent bind() altogether. Regards, Adi From eric@willow.nutstreet.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 07:57:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c923d96e_881d_11d8_83bb_00304828b574_18072; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:57:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6719E344DCE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:57:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8f26442_881d_11d8_8a52_00304828b574_18069; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:57:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 49E4B7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:57:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C417580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8b1b82a_881d_11d8_9ec6_00304828b574_18066; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:57:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D27344DCE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c7fdd6ac_881d_11d8_95e5_00304828b574_18062; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8690119CCC; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E284F19CCC; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C626919F79; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AE5019CCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (adsl-66-139-38-41.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [66.139.38.41]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i36Muffv025335 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:56:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i36MumFJ016226 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:56:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i36MumTI016222 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:56:48 -0500 From: Eric KD5UWL To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] In-Reply-To: <3b0759190d1b9798926d121cedeceea1@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: References: <3b0759190d1b9798926d121cedeceea1@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:56:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Thanks. Eric > > Even so, is it still possible for me to get one of those t-shirts? > here's some plan9 merchandise: > > http://www.cafeshops.com/9grid > http://www.cafeshops.com/lon9con > > the first one has no markup on t-shirts, the second does. From rsc@swtch.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 07:59:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 094558ce_881e_11d8_9fa2_00304828b574_18316; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:59:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02740344DCE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:59:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0912fb2c_881e_11d8_8775_00304828b574_18313; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:59:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D9C317580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:59:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914817580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:59:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08d3a7ce_881e_11d8_9039_00304828b574_18310; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:59:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8A3344DCE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:59:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08257cb2_881e_11d8_9f56_00304828b574_18306; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:59:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17C6719FB3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1972519F79; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 077AA19F80; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1741219F79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swtch.com (tux.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.4.157]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E3424FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40734390.4000806@swtch.com> From: Russ Cox User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 References: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> In-Reply-To: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:56:00 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Enache Adrian wrote: > On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 a.d., rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > >>% bind -b /tmp /dev > > > That could be dangerous too. > I'd like a rfork flag to prevent bind() altogether. why? you can only hurt yourself. From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:55 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 09:06:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ac988f0_8827_11d8_9f03_00304828b574_1099; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:06:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CAA34444A for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:06:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a990310_8827_11d8_83d0_00304828b574_1096; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:06:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EE1567580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:06:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5ABD7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:06:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a591908_8827_11d8_8b1d_00304828b574_1092; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:06:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E2B34444A for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:06:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69aa3852_8827_11d8_9faf_00304828b574_1088; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:06:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D93CA19EA7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB62019BFB; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A54919EA7; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 048D119B82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27952 invoked by uid 89); 6 Apr 2004 23:59:20 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 23:59:20 -0000 Message-ID: <011801c41c34$4af4a280$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9c806dc17e198357b033c8ae81271a3d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:53:17 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I wish I had that when I added "set english" and "set roman" to csh as an april fool's joke (they instructed csh to display all numbers in english text, or roman numerals). set english set morse would have been particularly tedious (those pids). brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bosch" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser > static char*asciitab[] = { > ".-", // A > "-...", etc ... From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 7 20:28:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 09:28:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7aa574f2_882a_11d8_8e5f_00304828b574_6908; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2024D344DF6 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a6a773a_882a_11d8_8671_00304828b574_6900; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0A8D67580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:28:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B205F7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:28:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a2ddf0a_882a_11d8_8eb5_00304828b574_6893; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:28:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BCC344DF6 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:28:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 797ff354_882a_11d8_9bd5_00304828b574_6884; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:28:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1891E19CA8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 72E4119D44; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:28:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59C6919D8B; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8F6F19C3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4356f964d274fad12ec443c6f7ce7312@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:30:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > two essential things Plan 9 lacks for laptops > - sleep that works > - hot plug devices (e.g. pcmcia, usb dongles, etc.) usb hotswapping works for me i just run usb/usbd again m From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 10:12:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2b2e658_8830_11d8_863d_00304828b574_18811; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB9F344477 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b27d6172_8830_11d8_9929_00304828b574_18797; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7398F7580FE; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639527580FD for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aca9efb8_8830_11d8_9a50_00304828b574_18704; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788743444B2 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 385dbf68_8830_11d8_9f65_00304828b574_16959; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BAD719F8D; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C590719F76; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35EB619F79; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 035EA19F5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e2afeaa1aeaccc3ef0076ea45b63fb9@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:08:06 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hire Boyd, he's got the equipment, aptitude, attitude and relative proximity. I'll try to dig up my Protocol Police sheriff's badge. From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 10:12:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3b33f6c_8830_11d8_9e09_00304828b574_18838; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B5C34447F for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b37e6404_8830_11d8_873b_00304828b574_18829; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 281CF7580FF; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C1C7580FC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af4b6e5e_8830_11d8_8218_00304828b574_18758; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56138344485 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2f96e9e_8830_11d8_883c_00304828b574_18572; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92B5519FC0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D82019FB8; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:12:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B69319FB6; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B930619F93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6986 invoked by uid 89); 7 Apr 2004 01:05:07 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 01:05:07 -0000 Message-ID: <015701c41c3d$7c209770$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] notify woe Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:10:38 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: gee, don't call malloc from a notify function, this is from mk ... acid: stk() sleep()+0x7 /sys/src/libc/9syscall/sleep.s:5 lock(lk=0x188b8)+0x88 /sys/src/libc/port/lock.c:22 plock(p=0x17814)+0x12 /sys/src/libc/port/malloc.c:78 poolalloc(p=0x17814,n=0x1d)+0xf /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:1096 malloc(size=0x15)+0x1c /sys/src/libc/port/malloc.c:199 wait()+0x87 /sys/src/libc/9sys/wait.c:22 waitfor(msg=0x7fffc600)+0x8 /sys/src/cmd/mk/plan9.c:144 waitup(retstatus=0x0,echildok=0x1)+0x5a /sys/src/cmd/mk/run.c:119 killchildren(msg=0x7fffc6e8)+0x59 /sys/src/cmd/mk/run.c:269 notifyf(msg=0x7fffc6e8)+0x7b /sys/src/cmd/mk/plan9.c:294 notifier+0x30 /sys/src/libc/port/atnotify.c:15 actually don't call wait, or any library function that allocates, from a notify function. how's my timing in interrupting a malloc? brucee From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 10:16:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2dc5ffb0_8831_11d8_81bf_00304828b574_19699; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:16:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA002344490 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d94d7fa_8831_11d8_9c8e_00304828b574_19696; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8C8CB7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:16:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438097580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d547872_8831_11d8_9542_00304828b574_19693; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF49344495 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:16:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ca43c50_8831_11d8_8b22_00304828b574_19683; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:16:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC1B519B95; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ABBFD19BD1; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:16:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2EA9619A7B; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4CA919A10 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DAA85575E6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:15:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00fa01c41c3d$674bcc20$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2e2afeaa1aeaccc3ef0076ea45b63fb9@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:12:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Hire Boyd, he's got the equipment, aptitude, attitude ... attitude? moi? :) From jkw@eecs.harvard.edu Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 10:41:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b040a10e_8834_11d8_95d8_00304828b574_25920; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:41:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6E73444A6 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id afff4222_8834_11d8_807c_00304828b574_25917; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:41:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D4A4A7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:41:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6B47580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id afc0d4f6_8834_11d8_9309_00304828b574_25914; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4883444A6 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af0a3642_8834_11d8_9ffb_00304828b574_25910; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66FB819F7E; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C972019F30; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:41:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18AE219CF3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8475919D81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3815F24FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3380528; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:40:56 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] notify woe Message-ID: <20040407014056.GA30936@mero.morphisms.net> References: <015701c41c3d$7c209770$8201a8c0@cc77109e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <015701c41c3d$7c209770$8201a8c0@cc77109e> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 11:10:38AM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > gee, don't call malloc from a notify function, this is from mk ... > > actually don't call wait, or any library function that allocates, > from a notify function. how's my timing in interrupting a malloc? I seem to recall stumbling over that one a year or two ago and mentioning it to the list or 9trouble. Actually, I think it was a race for the malloc lock, perhaps, that could cause a deadlock in the thread library at interrupt time. Similar issue in any case... From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 11:02:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ff8f442_8837_11d8_8541_00304828b574_29713; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41364345016 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9fc74f00_8837_11d8_98e6_00304828b574_29710; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2434E7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:02:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E577580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f886402_8837_11d8_8e04_00304828b574_29707; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFEA345017 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:02:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9edacae0_8837_11d8_8497_00304828b574_29701; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5504B19D97; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F315019C13; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FA2D19BD2; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 093AA19B9A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1752057556 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <014d01c41c43$d830f450$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1081268998.6510.733.camel@zevon> <087501c41bf7$b521cda0$084b7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:58:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: here are the images: http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/images/t just don't start singing, ok? From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 11:25:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db7679c4_883a_11d8_949a_00304828b574_4975; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0C73444F5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db457dba_883a_11d8_9628_00304828b574_4972; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6CACF7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230D87580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db045e5c_883a_11d8_8dff_00304828b574_4969; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EF83444F5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id da56b9dc_883a_11d8_8eff_00304828b574_4965; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF6D919D8B; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7DA6C19E70; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E4C119CB0; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E5A8019C3F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30441 invoked by uid 89); 7 Apr 2004 02:18:51 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 02:18:51 -0000 Message-ID: <01a001c41c47$c96260e0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [9fans] new 8c Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:26:22 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: here is an 8c with native vlong support. comments welcome. http://www.chunder.com/plan9/ brucee From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 11:25:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2497440_883a_11d8_8e17_00304828b574_4992; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71F23444F5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e20d81ec_883a_11d8_8889_00304828b574_4989; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D32427580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6107580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e1d40854_883a_11d8_9ffd_00304828b574_4986; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F693444F5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:25:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e124df28_883a_11d8_8df6_00304828b574_4982; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:25:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB15219F30; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF4319E95; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 480BD19CF3; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AD81219CA5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30391 invoked by uid 89); 7 Apr 2004 02:18:49 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 02:18:49 -0000 Message-ID: <019f01c41c47$c8385fd0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <015701c41c3d$7c209770$8201a8c0@cc77109e> <20040407014056.GA30936@mero.morphisms.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] notify woe Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:16:04 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i believe this bug to be simply that a (in this case single threaded) program is interrupted holding the malloc pool lock. the notify function indirectly calls malloc. sleep time. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Josephson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] notify woe > On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 11:10:38AM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > > gee, don't call malloc from a notify function, this is from mk ... > > > > actually don't call wait, or any library function that allocates, > > from a notify function. how's my timing in interrupting a malloc? > > I seem to recall stumbling over that one a year or two > ago and mentioning it to the list or 9trouble. Actually, > I think it was a race for the malloc lock, perhaps, that > could cause a deadlock in the thread library at interrupt > time. Similar issue in any case... From jkw@eecs.harvard.edu Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 12:29:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bfd10dc0_8843_11d8_970b_00304828b574_16941; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0291345046 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf9fef4c_8843_11d8_824d_00304828b574_16938; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 866AF7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3927580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf628a62_8843_11d8_9ed8_00304828b574_16935; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D306345046 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id beb4e7a4_8843_11d8_85bd_00304828b574_16931; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:29:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A0DD119E96; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CEA619D10; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:29:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A890719D44; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7502E19C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FF524FD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2A5C728; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:28:55 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] notify woe Message-ID: <20040407032855.GA31468@mero.morphisms.net> References: <015701c41c3d$7c209770$8201a8c0@cc77109e> <20040407014056.GA30936@mero.morphisms.net> <019f01c41c47$c8385fd0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <019f01c41c47$c8385fd0$8201a8c0@cc77109e> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 12:16:04PM +1000, Bruce Ellis wrote: > i believe this bug to be simply that a (in this case single threaded) > program is interrupted holding the malloc pool lock. the notify > function indirectly calls malloc. sleep time. Yep; that's the one (though I hit it somewhere inside the thread scheduler and there's now a hack to mitigate that particular instance). From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 7 20:28:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 14:00:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8013ebb4_8850_11d8_8d94_00304828b574_6712; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:00:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E76E4344603 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:00:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e8e72dc_8850_11d8_9779_00304828b574_6704; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:00:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7D4C37580FE; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:00:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0697580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:00:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d76955a_8850_11d8_9d37_00304828b574_6689; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:00:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E99344627 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3826d294_8850_11d8_82e1_00304828b574_5638; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A928D19AC0; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E5B2F19AAA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C47EB19A2C; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AFDA19A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4dc9617780ae61b02af948fa7076b4ee@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:58:27 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, geoff. In a short word, my argument is that we should pay more respects to those who are sharing their own time to others. Of course, I know we can empl= oy more people with high quality if more money. This is true everywhere=20 professional works are concerned though. =20 It's easy to say that quality of some free software are bad from the view= point=20 of skilled professionals. However, we must remind that the programmer w= ho=20 are working without pay are shareing their own time, not full-time of the= m,=20 which is same to us after Plan 9 became to a free software. As you know= the=20 quality of Plan 9 itself is now going down, if we cpmpare it with ,say, R= elease 2=20 or 3. I think this is very natural, because we have now no full-time pr= ogrammer=20 of Plan 9. Being said above, I still love Plan 9 because of its beatiful design and = codes, very easy to understand and to read! I feel Plan 9 has her own future, = if we=20 could continue to develope its philosophy. The problem is how we can ge= t=20 more programmer even though we cannot pay them money in a future. I thi= nk=20 Linux people may have a solution or at least trying to get it with strugg= ling. >So my > preferences in code would be, in order of decreasing desirability: > Plan 9, Research Unix, OpenBSD (they at least try to pay attention to > security issues), *BSD, Linux, full stop. My preference is only Plan 9, because I don't know Research Unix.=E2=98=BA > Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than > Windows):=20 I chose Linux because it's the best spread lunix, and I can use it as my = own base for working (actually, I may not need sources of it, because it's ju= st a running base for applications to me). From this view point, I doubt the= re is=20 any value to pay attention to other Unices, because we have Plan 9. > I don't know if that answers your questions, Kenji. You did, geoff. Kenji From matthias@mteege.de Wed Apr 7 20:28:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 14:56:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50d736dc_8858_11d8_9bfe_00304828b574_19604; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:56:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78B83446E4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50a33ad0_8858_11d8_8b6c_00304828b574_19601; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C0D527580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A3A7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50688bb0_8858_11d8_8302_00304828b574_19598; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:56:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 851BE3446E4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4fb2c71c_8858_11d8_80e4_00304828b574_19594; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FCE119BBE; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D65D519B82; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46A8519B90; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB8D419B50 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19231 invoked by uid 66); 7 Apr 2004 05:55:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 21462 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 05:52:37 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 05:52:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 47635 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 05:52:37 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 05:52:37 -0000 Message-ID: <96d72bd4152315c8ec0c7193aae63ac5@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] watch a second mailbox In-Reply-To: <243c03345533dd02578210ec76349f1d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:51:07 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue Apr 6 17:15:59 GMT 2004, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > % plumber; upas/fs -f /some/other/file; faces -i Ok, after that I can see the mails in the file but if I right-clocking on one of them it shows me a mail from the main mailbox with the same message number. Matthias From david@varvel.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 15:28:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c17693d4_885c_11d8_9e35_00304828b574_28456; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:28:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5851344695 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:28:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1411394_885c_11d8_9e3d_00304828b574_28450; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:28:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 486177580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:28:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070A17580FC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:28:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf00e870_885c_11d8_8faa_00304828b574_28423; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:28:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86813446E5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:24:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3a61c7a6_885c_11d8_8005_00304828b574_26501; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:24:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED97019F72; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 654D719F6F; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:24:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D77619F23; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from secrets.varvel.net (wsip-68-224-175-38.sd.sd.cox.net [68.224.175.38]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6208919F43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by secrets.varvel.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BB6Sp-00055C-00; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:23:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <08D32155-885C-11D8-AC61-003065E5800A@varvel.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: L.David Varvel To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: [9fans] Installer Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:23:07 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, I just installed plan9 for the first time, and I'm finding it to be very interesting. I had a question about the installer, though. The "net" option for grabbing the sources seems to be either incomplete, broken, or both. I had to burn a CD-Rom to finish the install. Out of curiousity, how is the network install supposed to work? There doesn't seem to be any documentation on it. TIA, David Varvel From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Wed Apr 7 20:28:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 15:30:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fcbca36_885d_11d8_9f7e_00304828b574_29611; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:30:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDAE34465B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:30:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f96bb70_885d_11d8_9da4_00304828b574_29605; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:30:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 437707580F9; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:30:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1B17580FE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:30:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b6cab68_885d_11d8_83f0_00304828b574_29549; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:30:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88483446B4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:28:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c721f620_885c_11d8_82e7_00304828b574_28530; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:28:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E56E19F6F; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4AA019F93; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:28:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 014E119F6F; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB41C19F5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:27:13 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:27:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAg3jbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040406T232712Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] Installer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2004 06:27:13.0572 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D4D7E40:01C41C69] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:27:12 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: since you have the cd, read through the setup scripts... they're quite = revealing, and a good example of how much can be done with scripts. >>> L.David Varvel 4/6/2004 11:23:07 PM >>> Hello, I just installed plan9 for the first time, and I'm finding it to be=20 very interesting. I had a question about the installer, though. The=20 "net" option for grabbing the sources seems to be either incomplete,=20 broken, or both. I had to burn a CD-Rom to finish the install. Out of curiousity, how is the network install supposed to work? =20 There doesn't seem to be any documentation on it. TIA, David Varvel From martin@parvat.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 16:16:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80318c92_8863_11d8_8f88_00304828b574_6526; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:16:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51CA3450F7 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:16:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 800000c8_8863_11d8_8651_00304828b574_6523; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:16:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AED397580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:16:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7167580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:16:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7fbf3b7e_8863_11d8_911d_00304828b574_6520; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:16:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A343450F7 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:16:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7f0dd050_8863_11d8_9f65_00304828b574_6516; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:16:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED44719FB8; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D471919EA7; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAE0819F97; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBFC619EA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB7H4-0003A5-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:15:02 +0200 Received: from [203.101.53.207] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB7H2-0001Tr-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:15:01 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-Id: <20040407124132.14a45fd3.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> References: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:41:32 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:11:23 -0700 Geoff Collyer wrote: >... Lots of stuff I agree with... > Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than > Windows): the distributions I've seen are just a collection of ~1,000 > packages and, if they even come with sources, you hope you can compile > them all, but they demand different prerequisite library versions > (often for little or no reason), some of which are incompatible and > can't co-exist, so it becomes a major pain to construct a consistent > source tree, for which you have running binaries, and which you could > recompile all (or part) of. The BSDs at least are integrated systems, > maintained as systems, not packages, so they come with self-consistent > sources, and you can compile them. For programs that aren't part of > the core system (``ports''), they let `make' figure out the > dependencies (novel!) and drag in the necessary prerequisites and they > usually build (occasionally the gratuitous overspecificity of version > numbers bites one in the ass; it's a real problem in the BSD/Linux > world). This is also mostly true, but having used Debian Linux for several years now, I can claim with some non-trivial experience that Debian is the counter example (that proves the rule? :-). Debian linux, like the BSDs also tries to release a 'system', not just a collection of packages. That is why the Debian release cycle is so long, and why the 'latest and greatest' version is always rather out of date! I apt-get modules daily (or at least, weekly), and have never had one program/library break another, or any of the usual library-version hell. Of course, if you step outside the packages in the stable system, then things can get a little more complicated, but that is your choice, and usually the package system still sorts things out with very minimal hassle. >.. > If you're bored and have an afternoon, a fast machine, a broadband > connection and ~10GBs of disk to kill, ask FreeBSD to build `gnucash': > it drags in code and compiles and drags and compiles, but the best >... Just last week I apt-getted a reasonably recent version of gnucash, and that was all there was to it. Nothing broke, all the dependencies were automatically updated, etc. etc. No scheme-version hell, either. (It's just a pity that the up-to-date manual hadn't also been packaged, but that only took a few minutes to fix). The number of times you see instructions for the installation of packages on RPM-based systems include the direction to "turn off package version compatibility checking" is truly scary! I'm not even sure if apt has such an option! > And of course there are the people who insist on programming in > (shudder) Perl. Lordy, lordy, lordy. One is reminded of Phil Wadler > on XML (see /sys/games/lib/fortunes): it's not a language (at least in > the sense of having a finite or at least well-defined grammar, or at > least a grammar!, and some attempt at having a minimal, non-redundant, > orthogonal set of constructs that cover the application space of > interest), it's not a sharp tool but rather a swiss-army > gasoline-powered chainsaw, and it's not particularly good for doing > anything. Sorry; I'm allergic to Perl. Agreed! Agreed!!!! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From rvs@sun.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 16:26:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4a21c68_8864_11d8_838c_00304828b574_8127; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:26:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDF2345107 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e46a6b1a_8864_11d8_82c3_00304828b574_8124; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9DCCD7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:26:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402187580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e41c7996_8864_11d8_9e4d_00304828b574_8121; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:26:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09834345107 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:26:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3430d82_8864_11d8_971f_00304828b574_8117; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:26:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5379919F7E; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EE2519E96; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E836319E16; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5482219DC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.42]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i377PFio007438 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from submarine.sfbay.sun.com (submarine.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.78.138]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id i377PF9s009644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rs76089@localhost) by submarine.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id i377PER07738 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Roman Shaposhnick To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wiki editing via web browser Message-ID: <20040407072514.GA7733@submarine> References: <20040406020524.GA29916@submarine> <9c806dc17e198357b033c8ae81271a3d@plan9.bell-labs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9c806dc17e198357b033c8ae81271a3d@plan9.bell-labs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:25:14 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Wow! That's the spirit. Thanks, Roman. On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:08:48AM -0400, Peter Bosch wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 02:39:44AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > >> > P.S. Back in my childhood I though that Russian military tongue was > >> > practically Morse code ... > >> > >> -.-. --.- > > > > .-- - ..-. ..--.. > > #include > #include > #include > #include > > static char*asciitab[] = { > ".-", // A > "-...", > "-.-.", > "-..", > ".", > "..-.", > "--.", > "....", > "..", > ".---", > "-.-", > ".-..", > "--", > "-.", > "---", > ".--.", > "--.-", > ".-.", > "...", > "-", > "..-", > "...-", > ".--", > "-..-", > "-.--", > "--..", // Z > }; > > static char*numtab[] = { > "-----", // 0 > ".----", > "..---", > "...--", > "....-", > ".....", > "-....", > "--...", > "---..", > "----.", > }; > > static struct { > char c; > char *m; > } specials[] = { > { '.', ".-.-.-" }, > { ',', "--..--" }, > { '?', "..--.." }, > { '@', ".--.-." }, > { ' ', " " }, > }; > > int > morsefmt(Fmt *f) > { > char *p, *src, *dst, c; > int rv, len, i; > > src = va_arg(f->args, char*); > len = strlen(src); > p = dst = malloc(len * 6 + 1); > if(dst == nil) > return fmtstrcpy(f, "(romanfmt)"); > > while(c = *src++){ > if(c == '\n') > continue; > > if(isalpha(c)){ > c = toupper(c); > assert(c >= 'A' && c <= 'Z'); > c -= 'A'; > len = strlen(asciitab[c]); > memcpy(p, asciitab[c], len); > p += len; > continue; > } > > if(isdigit(c)){ > assert(c >= '0' && c <= '9'); > c -= '0'; > len = strlen(numtab[c]); > memcpy(p, numtab[c], len); > p += len; > continue; > } > > for(i = 0; i < nelem(specials); i++) > if(specials[i].c == c) > break; > > if(i == nelem(specials)){ > *p++ = '?'; > continue; > } > > len = strlen(specials[i].m); > memcpy(p, specials[i].m, len); > p += len; > } > *p = 0; > > rv = fmtstrcpy(f, dst); > free(dst); > return rv; > } > > void > main(void) > { > Biobuf b; > char *p; > > Binit(&b, 0, OREAD); > fmtinstall('M', morsefmt); > while((p = Brdline(&b, '\n')) != nil){ > p[Blinelen(&b)] = 0; > print("[%s] %M\n", p, p); > } > Bterm(&b); > exits(0); > } > From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 16:31:04 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86e174f6_8865_11d8_9683_00304828b574_9005; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:31:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06282345114 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:31:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86b0b834_8865_11d8_8471_00304828b574_9002; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:31:04 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC9EF7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:31:03 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6682B7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:31:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86545dd2_8865_11d8_8924_00304828b574_8999; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:31:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F99345114 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85a6e120_8865_11d8_9f14_00304828b574_8885; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B841C19FC1; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7F3919F97; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:30:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4510319F97; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6CDB19E96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b4fbce6a2f6b5c04e6b19e29c7530d3@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040407124132.14a45fd3.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:30:14 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Ah! Now I understand why the users of Debian Linux are fanatical about it. I'd never heard a convincing explanation before but this makes a lot of sense. Should I ever have occasion to install Linux again, I'll give it a try. From martin@parvat.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 17:11:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f7abf00_886b_11d8_92e9_00304828b574_19415; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5794F34478B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f4831ac_886b_11d8_9b62_00304828b574_19412; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3BCE07580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50177580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f08044c_886b_11d8_8f24_00304828b574_19409; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F149D34478F for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:11:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e588bac_886b_11d8_9e71_00304828b574_19402; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1771C19F30; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4A8719E16; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5065919F39; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.184]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F013319E16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB892-00026V-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:10:48 +0200 Received: from [203.101.53.207] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB891-0003Gh-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:10:48 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-Id: <20040407133719.43388d4b.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <7ff77f951d0798f7e9b3695ccbb25275@9netics.com> References: <7ff77f951d0798f7e9b3695ccbb25275@9netics.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:37:19 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:41:40 -0700 9nut@9netics.com wrote: > By definition very few have seen the closed ones, and can't really > talk about it. Five will get you ten that Windows XP source is orders > of magnitude messier that Linux. Yes. I'd place odds too! A related issue: I read somewhere that the source code for accessing outlook .pst mail boxes has been completely lost. All that now exists is various .dll libraries that can't be re-built! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From martin@parvat.com Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 17:19:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f74598c_886c_11d8_86bb_00304828b574_21953; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DFB3442F4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f333196_886c_11d8_9da3_00304828b574_21950; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4FFD7758103; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:19:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D21758102 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:19:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4e66e596_886c_11d8_931e_00304828b574_21947; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02278344684 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a13752c_886c_11d8_95ae_00304828b574_21894; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:19:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D5E119DDB; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 194DC19B95; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05C8B19C33; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.189]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 341EA19B95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.207] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB8GG-0006m2-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:18:16 +0200 Received: from [203.101.53.207] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BB8FM-00032a-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:17:21 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-Id: <20040407134338.31152525.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <7b4fbce6a2f6b5c04e6b19e29c7530d3@collyer.net> References: <20040407124132.14a45fd3.martin@parvat.com> <7b4fbce6a2f6b5c04e6b19e29c7530d3@collyer.net> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:43:38 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:30:14 -0700 Geoff Collyer wrote: > Ah! Now I understand why the users of Debian Linux are fanatical about > it. I'd never heard a convincing explanation before but this makes a > lot of sense. Should I ever have occasion to install Linux again, > I'll give it a try. I'm just hoping they can maintain the record, given that the woody->sarge update will see the number of packages go from 3000 -> 10,000 (numbers off the top of my head, but you get the general idea!). Martin PS Yam, apt for rpms, etc are trying to add the fundamental mechanisms to other distributions, but without the (correct!) dependency meta-data in the packages, that's all just pointless window-dressing. The meta-data takes real effort by *all* the package maintainers, and that's not so easy to retro-fit! -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 7 20:28:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 17:20:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 697cb360_886c_11d8_88cd_00304828b574_22127; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:20:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AF0344767 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69477010_886c_11d8_8b2d_00304828b574_22124; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:20:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 10D937580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73607580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68ff3548_886c_11d8_8e52_00304828b574_22120; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:20:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E68344779 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6851d4ac_886c_11d8_9b8e_00304828b574_22114; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:20:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E93F119FD1; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FEA819DBF; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E866C19E16; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A71819DBF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94b935e82432a8ccdc67aebb7ae5aee9@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040407133719.43388d4b.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:19:36 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Sounds like there's a business opportunity to sell Microsoft some Ken file servers with optical jukeboxes or fossil/venti servers with RAID disks. Maybe a few CD-RW and DVD-RAM drives too. Or maybe they just can't *find* the sources. A business opportunity for Google. From 9nut@9netics.com Wed Apr 7 20:29:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 18:17:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68c6aec8_8874_11d8_8984_00304828b574_2898; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:17:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58F33447CB for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68917a64_8874_11d8_9faa_00304828b574_2895; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D234B7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89FDF7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68583b50_8874_11d8_95dc_00304828b574_2892; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2183447CB for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:17:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67ab3838_8874_11d8_8a8a_00304828b574_2888; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:17:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DE2D19F30; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 560A319DD3; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:17:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD8C819DD3; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CC7119DB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <94b935e82432a8ccdc67aebb7ae5aee9@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:16:53 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Sounds like there's a business opportunity to sell Microsoft some Ken > file servers with optical jukeboxes or fossil/venti servers with RAID > disks. Maybe a few CD-RW and DVD-RAM drives too. > > Or maybe they just can't *find* the sources. A business opportunity > for Google. I was going to say that maybe finding sources to dll's they can't rebuild would be a good test case for their (new to them) search engine. From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:25:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffef16a6_8896_11d8_8882_00304828b574_28564; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:25:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C970934498D for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:25:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff5c230a_8896_11d8_8885_00304828b574_28551; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:25:11 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8AD5D7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:25:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFE6758103 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:25:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc291eae_8896_11d8_9f1d_00304828b574_28508; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:25:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A4F344A43 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:23:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6a6153e_8896_11d8_8dff_00304828b574_27642; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:23:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C8CB19E9B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C2BC19E0B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:23:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA8E19DF6; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B14219DEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id B814958D; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:21:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8B8589 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:21:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA24741 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:21:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> References: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081344050.4565.507.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:20:50 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > That could be dangerous too. How? > I'd like a rfork flag to prevent bind() altogether. Why? Dave. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:32:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06c6cb58_8898_11d8_94ff_00304828b574_29709; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6225A344A77 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0690ca26_8898_11d8_9020_00304828b574_29706; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4DF197580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E027580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 065733ec_8898_11d8_9f42_00304828b574_29703; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FCF344A77 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 05a82262_8898_11d8_9d10_00304828b574_29698; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:32:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A32D19DA1; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B53619DAA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:32:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD24619E0B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B403219DA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8427637846 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:31:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02b701c41ca4$461d34f0$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040407124132.14a45fd3.martin@parvat.com><7b4fbce6a2f6b5c04e6b19e29c7530d3@collyer.net> <20040407134338.31152525.martin@parvat.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:28:53 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: debian do have a slow release cycle, which is a good thing. however, i have seen sloppy apt-get's smashing things into an unusable state. this shows that there is something fundementally wrong with this whole 'pull it across the net' philosophy and this is before we get into security issues. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:39:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ab24d68_8899_11d8_8089_00304828b574_31034; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1AD344A94 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a8157d0_8899_11d8_8708_00304828b574_31030; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5F8C87580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145AE7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a409132_8899_11d8_9004_00304828b574_31027; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234F6344A94 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:39:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0992b42c_8899_11d8_80d4_00304828b574_31023; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:39:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC0E119FD7; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9197219E9B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44C2C19E9B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E39119DA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EA75457713 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:38:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02bd01c41ca5$4745e100$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <94b935e82432a8ccdc67aebb7ae5aee9@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:36:04 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > ... or fossil/venti servers with RAID disks. i had this conversation with a mate of mine the other week. RAID controllers are expensive, overly complex and prone to failure. i didn't agree 'cos i'd seen one that didn't fail. however i was compelled by his logic that the controller i was using [Digital Storageworks] expensive and probably over complex. we agreed that mirroring is simpler, less error prone and now that disks are cheap going to RAID5 is a complete waste when it can be trivially replaced with mirroring. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:40:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e8368cc_8899_11d8_9091_00304828b574_31159; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:40:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CA9344A94 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e534eb2_8899_11d8_8ffd_00304828b574_31156; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9F6567580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:40:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC137580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e19d9ac_8899_11d8_8a05_00304828b574_31153; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DAEF344A94 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d6c95c6_8899_11d8_9781_00304828b574_31149; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6212419FE2; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A56C19ECF; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24DAD19FD2; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FB0419DA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67016f97820f7efb8d96e0da91170cc6@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <1081344050.4565.507.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:41:19 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> I'd like a rfork flag to prevent bind() altogether. > Why? if someone supplies you a binary you could fork a shell without binding, clear the namespace and run the supplied binary. Like chroot & jailing it However, preventing binds altogether seems a bit strange if you fork with RFNOMNT If set, subsequent mounts into the new name space and dereferencing of pathnames starting with # are disallowed. and RFCNAMEG If set, the new process starts with a clean name space. A new name space must be built from a mount of an open file descriptor. Is mutually exclusive with RFNAMEG. what can you lose from allowing the binary from manipulating it's own namespace? m From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:43:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d8d42ce_8899_11d8_9753_00304828b574_31586; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEAA344A9B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d5c955c_8899_11d8_8dc5_00304828b574_31583; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E29307580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:43:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7AD7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:43:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d1d26f6_8899_11d8_9195_00304828b574_31580; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:43:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5CD344A9B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:43:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c6fdc8a_8899_11d8_98da_00304828b574_31576; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:43:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5157819FF7; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9445119FE7; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 029E119FD9; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 011C719FCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A50E57508 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:42:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02de01c41ca5$c384ac10$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:39:34 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I was going to say that maybe finding sources to dll's they can't rebuild > would be a good test case for their (new to them) search engine. maybe they've lost the expertice needed to code them. a windoze DLL is a scary thing and it's even worse when you have to code one. From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:47:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 185bb520_889a_11d8_89c7_00304828b574_32145; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:47:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95BE344AA2 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1825659c_889a_11d8_9256_00304828b574_32142; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BC7AC7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABED7580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 17e04bf6_889a_11d8_9703_00304828b574_32139; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7005A344AA3 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:47:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 172c7090_889a_11d8_9991_00304828b574_32135; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:47:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE79C19FEC; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93BE519AB0; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49FC41A015; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 972B11A08D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id BD5E758B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:45:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3068585 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:45:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27281 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:46:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6ffba97b9fd3467d67d2d5cbbf07ba83@juice.thebigchoice.com> References: <6ffba97b9fd3467d67d2d5cbbf07ba83@juice.thebigchoice.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081345516.4565.584.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:45:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 18:43, matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > yup, got an 802.11b router here > > and a 16 port 10/100 switch Excellent! Anvil's office is within 10 mins bike ride, so I can always whiz over there to make up cables if necc. Matt, Will you need a hand lugging stuff from St. Pancras? If so (and if I've still got my car then:-), a lift might be arranged, or a cheap(er) local taxi ... Cheers, Dave. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 7 22:56:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 7 22:54:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16b1c6d2_889b_11d8_97d3_00304828b574_2328; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9D8344A01 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1681df1c_889b_11d8_8109_00304828b574_2325; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7DF5B7580FA; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340D17580F9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 164120b2_889b_11d8_95d2_00304828b574_2321; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299F7344A01 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:54:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 157b2498_889b_11d8_83c8_00304828b574_2317; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:54:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA84819FF0; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0168419DE8; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:54:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4F2419EDC; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CACB719B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon: [Fwd: RE: internet in the upper hall] In-Reply-To: <1081345516.4565.584.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:56:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: As I'm bringing all this stuff I'll come down by car m From a@9srv.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 00:34:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12e8fa62_88a9_11d8_8c7d_00304828b574_24315; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395D13451B8 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12b7e99a_88a9_11d8_9951_00304828b574_24312; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1DDB17580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:34:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28537580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 127efa5e_88a9_11d8_933d_00304828b574_24309; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C453451B8 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11d0cede_88a9_11d8_8879_00304828b574_24305; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7445A19FFB; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49CCF19F1C; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:34:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05B6B19F1F; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA4C019F1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12626892729276d3c465686d0bee1786@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <02b701c41ca4$461d34f0$0cc47d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:29:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // however, i have seen sloppy apt-get's smashing things into // an unusable state. this shows that there is something // fundementally wrong with this whole 'pull it across // the net' philosophy and this is before we get into // security issues. no, i don't think it does. regardless of what model you use,=20 package maintainers can always make mistakes, and there are always security questions. the fact that the specific apt-get implementation of the 'pull it across the net' model is=20 flawed (but still pretty good) just means that apt-get needs fixing. how to do that without having dumps or snapshots is left as an exercise for the reader. ;-) the first time i cd'd into the BSD ports tree and did a make that automatically pulled things over the net i was totally blown away. even if i did have to go to dinner while the package downloaded over my 14.4K modem. :-) =E3=82=A2 From Latasha@hotmail.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 01:30:55 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f14eae44_88b0_11d8_834b_00304828b574_4633; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:30:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8611A344B9A for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:30:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0f24c76_88b0_11d8_9fb9_00304828b574_4630; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:30:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 672007580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:30:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39BE7580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:30:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f08a24de_88b0_11d8_9552_00304828b574_4627; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:30:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7036D344B9A for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:30:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef94dfb0_88b0_11d8_8e55_00304828b574_4621; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:30:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 196731A01B; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 976771A010; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C95A81A00E; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 68.187.44.5.ts46v-02.mhe2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com (68.187.44.5.ts46v-02.mhe2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [68.187.44.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B79BF1A009; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 43.236.203.184 by 68.187.44.5; Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:23:59 -0200 Message-ID: From: "Joshua Hanley" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------191B044F5EB4CA7" Subject: [9fans] I am shocked with this hard-rape site, u must see it! (reluctant) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Joshua Hanley" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:28:59 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET,RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: **** ------------191B044F5EB4CA7 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------8A2AFCD7841CC2" ------------8A2AFCD7841CC2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------------8A2AFCD7841CC2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beyond privacy issues, the airlines say there are questions about how the government plans to implement CAPPS II. May said that 70 percent of airline reservations now are made through third parties such as travel agents and computerized reservation systems.
"The establishment of the pan-African parliament is imperative to consolidate the aspirations of the African peoples," senior AU official Jean Mfasoni told Reuters.


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"The establishment of the pan-African parliament is imperative to consolidate the aspirations of the African peoples," senior AU official Jean Mfasoni told Reuters.
"We focused on independent films essentially by default. In doing our research, it's where most women's careers were fostered and developed. Also, it's where women were greeted on an open playing field," Klainberg said.
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9Irjp6YmHqqwjGLULyOj+KHTO6Dl47LRVgPCqd2RiiLmKJ3mar7mbN7mbv7mcK7mZBAwX8nVtefl fLsoNq1paFFB+RVzZ9Q7NWWPeQbUfgopcSbUfgbotixGu3oz7UAGx1BpUR0JOAmTIqjWIhcHzeNq LUazna7/xppu3HDNgEKbJTM2W1N8a+IpRrEjnoI+Fj1ORN6NhKO9O4urgnIqg5BKPNIFO9+B69mb VJG4lHL7ldLW6risRa8u2+mgyvBHX61cetOwhmLrq6xLXun1cpaJuZwqnglndXUeRo/+zM+ezNG+ dM7cq4BxHrj8uu5Oh4KxbwQVyc497sIOWQf02rwbrWY3sQfud3RkDdBLPxhU8Mjb3g2OZ8harOLO zjh9RlCeK8eYewudZid+oTler+7LVX6toO8awJuHM/Va0ATqnwZ8fC525FvW8hEf5/kapzI/8zRf 8zZ/8zif8zq/8zzf8z7/80Af9EI/9ERv8zB/9Eif9I4VAQEAOw== ------------191B044F5EB4CA7-- From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Thu Apr 8 22:34:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 04:50:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9ee7830_88cc_11d8_9a3f_00304828b574_15357; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F14C345258 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9bcffc6_88cc_11d8_8c5c_00304828b574_15354; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 627F97580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199B17580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d97d9732_88cc_11d8_8bf3_00304828b574_15351; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:50:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2711D345258 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:50:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d8cebf5a_88cc_11d8_94d5_00304828b574_15347; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:50:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9F3F1A025; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69EE61A023; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:50:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D5041A01A; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.7.238]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF6331A017 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] disk/kfscmd allow fails From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <20040407214157.187d067d.scusi@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:49:30 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Hi 9fans, > > after i had my first conntact with plan9 around 2 years i now installed it > again :-). > > Installation went fine, i rebooted and loged in as "glenda" to start > setting up my system (at least try how far i gonna get this time). > > My problem is that i can not change important config files since > "disk-kfscmd allow" gives back: "kfscmd: can't find commands file" > > Any ideas, what is wrong here ? > Where is the commandsfile normally ? > Can i somehow put one where it belongs to ? > > Thanks /~scusi kfs isn't the default filesystem anymore -- we've moved to fossil. to perform normal maintenance operations you can add your user to the 'sys' group, which will be enough for almost all maintenance operations. if you want something non-trivial (like changing the permissions of a file not owned by you or sys) you can use 'wstat' on the fossil console, or do serve a console allowing everyone to write to it (the replica script does that trick -- see /dist/replica/network). to connect to the fossil console do 'con -l /srv/fscons'; the commands are in fossilcons(8). here's how you may mount a write-allow fossil partition: % con -l /srv/fscons prompt: fsys main main: srv -AWP fsallow main: ^\ >>> q % mount /srv/fsallow /n/fossil % cd /n/fossil # and edit whatever you want there... hth: andrey From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Thu Apr 8 22:34:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 05:06:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15115318_88cf_11d8_8474_00304828b574_21723; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:06:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC367344179 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14dc6c3e_88cf_11d8_96d6_00304828b574_21720; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 98A6C7580FB; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:06:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C857580FA for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14a7a7ce_88cf_11d8_9ea1_00304828b574_21717; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B486344265 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:06:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13f2a87e_88cf_11d8_8228_00304828b574_21703; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:06:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D41B319DED; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1994119BDC; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:06:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D7E5D19DB3; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A4BC19BDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i37K4r7i018873 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:04:53 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i37K4ri6018869 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:04:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] watch a second mailbox In-Reply-To: <96d72bd4152315c8ec0c7193aae63ac5@mteege.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:04:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Just for the archive: Turns out nedmail opens /mail/box/user/mbox directly and doesn't go through /mail/fs/mbox/ (the one upas/fs serves). The correct solution in this case is to bind the new mailbox over /mail/box/user/mbox. andrey On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Matthias Teege wrote: > On Tue Apr 6 17:15:59 GMT 2004, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > > % plumber; upas/fs -f /some/other/file; faces -i > > Ok, after that I can see the mails in the file but if I > right-clocking on one of them it shows me a mail > from the main mailbox with the same message number. > > Matthias > From scusi@xs4all.nl Thu Apr 8 22:34:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 05:08:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5068c36a_88cf_11d8_8af8_00304828b574_22008; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:08:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5C13442C6 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:08:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50276528_88cf_11d8_94d6_00304828b574_22005; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:08:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0DCAB7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:08:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5D87580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4fe77a62_88cf_11d8_9ed9_00304828b574_22002; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9293442C6 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:08:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f31ad72_88cf_11d8_8230_00304828b574_21998; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E25271A00A; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6ACB5199B9; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:35:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A20E1A00A; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.xs4all.nl (smtp-out4.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.5]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97F0819F6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ivan (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out4.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i37JYTCY072963 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:34:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Scusi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20040407214157.187d067d.scusi@xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] disk/kfscmd allow fails Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:41:57 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi 9fans, after i had my first conntact with plan9 around 2 years i now installed it again :-). Installation went fine, i rebooted and loged in as "glenda" to start setting up my system (at least try how far i gonna get this time). My problem is that i can not change important config files since "disk-kfscmd allow" gives back: "kfscmd: can't find commands file" Any ideas, what is wrong here ? Where is the commandsfile normally ? Can i somehow put one where it belongs to ? Thanks /~scusi From enache@rdslink.ro Thu Apr 8 22:34:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 05:38:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f23c308_88d3_11d8_8350_00304828b574_28324; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7A634432D for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ef1b2b4_88d3_11d8_9fdb_00304828b574_28320; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5DC4D7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169277580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8eb1719a_88d3_11d8_86fe_00304828b574_28317; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260DE34432D for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 05:38:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e03f9c0_88d3_11d8_8f35_00304828b574_28312; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:38:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFC3B1A021; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B842B1A01C; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5715919FDD; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44DEF1A00A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13280 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2004 20:37:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) (81.196.254.135) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 7 Apr 2004 20:37:35 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <20040407204607.GA2551@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20040406204629.GA1607@ratsnest.hole> <40734390.4000806@swtch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40734390.4000806@swtch.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:46:07 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 a.d., Russ Cox wrote: > Enache Adrian wrote: > >On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 a.d., rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > > >>% bind -b /tmp /dev > > > >That could be dangerous too. > >I'd like a rfork flag to prevent bind() altogether. > > why? you can only hurt yourself. How can I enforce static namespace semantics upon a process ? Stop it from lying to its children about /dev/zero being /dev/random ? Or letting them happily fill up the disk when writing to /dev/null ? Regards, Adi From geoff@collyer.net Thu Apr 8 22:34:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 06:12:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49c78d76_88d8_11d8_9479_00304828b574_1588; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CFD344CF4 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 499399bc_88d8_11d8_81c2_00304828b574_1585; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8279C7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:12:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17AB57580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4944245e_88d8_11d8_8545_00304828b574_1582; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F0B344CF4 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:12:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 489710f2_88d8_11d8_8972_00304828b574_1575; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:12:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 113C31A018; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 892EB19FDD; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10AA11A00A; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82CF119F84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040407204607.GA2551@ratsnest.hole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:11:52 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I don't think that these are actual security problems. Remember that Plan 9 doesn't have set-id, so if you fool one of your child processes, you can only hurt yourself. Why do you want to enforce a static namespace? Why would you bind /dev/random onto /dev/zero and why would you consider it a security problem if you did? Likewise for binding an ordinary file onto /dev/null. Plan 9, like Unix, will let you shoot yourself in the foot if that makes you happy. But shooting yourself in the foot is not a security problem. From salomo3@cooper.edu Thu Apr 8 22:34:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 11:25:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0816f250_8904_11d8_8b44_00304828b574_7671; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:25:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32304344DEA for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:25:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07da0b7e_8904_11d8_970d_00304828b574_7668; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:25:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1C7E07580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:25:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2847580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0798ce7a_8904_11d8_8e24_00304828b574_7665; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A84344DEA for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:25:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06e85e0a_8904_11d8_8d95_00304828b574_7661; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:25:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80DC219E5C; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8862219B8E; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BE6819B92; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 382B919B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 6189F3939; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id D0C363937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ive7n5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.30.229]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3375.165.247.30.229.1081390422.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> References: <9d7ff25cc1cb8a187ec626f4ccfe804d@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:13:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff Collyer said: > Actually there's another reason to choose Linux last (other than > Windows): the distributions I've seen are just a collection of ~1,000 > packages and, if they even come with sources, you hope you can compile > them all, but they demand different prerequisite library versions > (often for little or no reason), some of which are incompatible and > can't co-exist, so it becomes a major pain to construct a consistent > source tree, for which you have running binaries, and which you could > recompile all (or part) of. The BSDs at least are integrated systems, > maintained as systems, not packages, so they come with self-consistent > sources, and you can compile them. For programs that aren't part of > the core system (``ports''), they let `make' figure out the > dependencies (novel!) and drag in the necessary prerequisites and they > usually build (occasionally the gratuitous overspecificity of version > numbers bites one in the ass; it's a real problem in the BSD/Linux > world). Then there's gentoo ( http://www.gentoo.org/ ) -- Linux with a ports-like system attached. I haven't the bandwidth to use it myself, but someone at cooper I introduced it too uses it on his home network and loves it. He VNC'd to his computer from school (shades of plan9) to show me an 'emerge sync' in progress. Couldn't get him hooked on plan9, though... --Joel From salomo3@cooper.edu Thu Apr 8 22:34:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 11:32:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8812cc4_8904_11d8_8dc8_00304828b574_8800; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:32:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF42344E00 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8499638_8904_11d8_9941_00304828b574_8797; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7BBF27580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:32:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307467580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f80dc68a_8904_11d8_8320_00304828b574_8794; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D06D344E00 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f75ea006_8904_11d8_8062_00304828b574_8790; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:32:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E116119FB1; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20D1A19CB8; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16BCB199B9; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA28119BF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 1AB883939; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 90BDC3937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ive7n5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.30.229]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3385.165.247.30.229.1081390854.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <7ff77f951d0798f7e9b3695ccbb25275@9netics.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:20:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a@9srv.net said: > > If every human being through the ages did that, [hid knowledge] > > we'd all still be reinventing the wheel and throwing rocks. > > only in the absolute. allowing inventors to profit from their work > also encourages future invention. there's a balance to be struck. > current laws in the US involving generic drugs are one (very > imperfect) example. original, pre-Disney copyright is another. > =E3=82=A2 > OTOH, patent law *does* require that the particulars of the invention be released. You just can't *use* it w/o permission. --Joel From martin@parvat.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 13:42:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 27f529da_8917_11d8_9668_00304828b574_7690; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:42:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CEA344612 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 27bd7c4c_8917_11d8_8611_00304828b574_7687; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:42:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0FF647580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD05C7580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 278522a2_8917_11d8_9588_00304828b574_7684; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:42:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1F3344612 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26d701ae_8917_11d8_82cf_00304828b574_7680; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:42:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFEDA1A01C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A4EC21A014; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D514B19FB5; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBCB219F8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BBRM4-0003in-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:41:32 +0200 Received: from [203.101.53.94] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BBRM3-0006dV-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:41:32 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-Id: <20040408100802.29819b88.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <02bd01c41ca5$4745e100$0cc47d50@SOMA> References: <94b935e82432a8ccdc67aebb7ae5aee9@collyer.net> <02bd01c41ca5$4745e100$0cc47d50@SOMA> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:08:02 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:36:04 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > ... or fossil/venti servers with RAID disks. > > i had this conversation with a mate of mine the other week. >... > we agreed that mirroring is simpler, less error prone and > now that disks are cheap going to RAID5 is a complete > waste when it can be trivially replaced with mirroring. This link, from the thread "Rob makes Dave Farbers 'vanity publishing' list": http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200404/msg00066.html also makes the argument that in a very big deployment - they have 100,000 servers, each with 2 disks (yes, I counted the zeros!) - RAID doesn't make much sense. I was convinced. Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From geoff@collyer.net Thu Apr 8 22:34:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 13:46:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af10acfa_8917_11d8_9dc5_00304828b574_8312; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:46:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A96344E13 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aee179ee_8917_11d8_80dc_00304828b574_8309; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BC0B87580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:46:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EE467580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aea1bf66_8917_11d8_9676_00304828b574_8306; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E56A344E13 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:46:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adf468d4_8917_11d8_9a94_00304828b574_8301; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:46:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 489901A023; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CEC519C0F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFA9419C0F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A16519AF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040408100802.29819b88.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:45:34 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: By `RAID', I just meant any form of redundancy so that data can be recovered on-line when a disk blows. I wasn't advocating any particular RAID level. The mirror device in Ken fs, for example, is just fine. From rminnich@lanl.gov Thu Apr 8 22:34:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 14:04:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32c41616_891a_11d8_974e_00304828b574_12177; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C589B344F69 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3292d7f4_891a_11d8_9440_00304828b574_12174; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A85887580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:04:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFB87580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3252b9e4_891a_11d8_80d7_00304828b574_12171; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB17344F69 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:04:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31a4cd70_891a_11d8_8348_00304828b574_12167; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:04:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 374231A037; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 293281A02E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:04:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACA871A027; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E3B019B7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3853vik025657 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:03:57 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3853vdo018822 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:03:57 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3853vwO010814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:03:57 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] inferno macos x Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:03:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: 20040331 + the fixed emu from that other site (forget which) finally brought up a window today. On the nth install something must have gone right. Anyway, now have no middle or right button support. Not the 3-button emulation or the 3-button mouse I have. 3 buttons work in everything BUT wm/wm in inferno. Anybody else seen this? ron p.s. 20040331 did not by itself fix the problem. From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Thu Apr 8 22:34:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 14:49:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81847d58_8920_11d8_8300_00304828b574_23357; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:49:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC87D344646 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8151c7b4_8920_11d8_8f56_00304828b574_23348; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BF5657580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:49:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 762C97580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8111d99c_8920_11d8_97c3_00304828b574_23342; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:49:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83709344646 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8062f472_8920_11d8_9f1d_00304828b574_23336; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:49:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3ED661A03E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17D5219FC4; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:49:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39D0C19FC4; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC8391A013 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:48:36 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:48:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAwHkbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040407T224834Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2004 05:48:36.0081 (UTC) FILETIME=[22622E10:01C41D2D] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:48:34 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I use Inferno under Mac OS X, using the Apple X11, and rio from Russ's = Plan 9 ports collection, and everything seems to work correctly... Though = I don't recall ever needing extra mouse buttons under Inferno anyway... >>> ron minnich 4/7/2004 10:03:57 PM >>> 20040331 + the fixed emu from that other site (forget which) finally=20 brought up a window today. On the nth install something must have gone=20 right. Anyway, now have no middle or right button support. Not the 3-button=20 emulation or the 3-button mouse I have. 3 buttons work in everything = BUT=20 wm/wm in inferno. Anybody else seen this? ron p.s. 20040331 did not by itself fix the problem.=20 From martin@parvat.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 16:09:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be460576_892b_11d8_9be9_00304828b574_9191; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:09:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4942934469C for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:09:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be137b42_892b_11d8_895b_00304828b574_9187; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:09:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2CE9A7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:09:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81307580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:09:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bdd438b0_892b_11d8_8f75_00304828b574_9184; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:09:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70E134469C for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:09:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd2671ee_892b_11d8_87e2_00304828b574_9180; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:09:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 596B41A041; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E04991A013; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30A0919DDE; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D8EC19B47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BBTe5-00045k-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:08:17 +0200 Received: from [203.101.53.94] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BBTe4-0004fW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:08:17 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-Id: <20040408123448.3ccdda4f.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20040408100802.29819b88.martin@parvat.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:34:48 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:45:34 -0700 Geoff Collyer wrote: > By `RAID', I just meant any form of redundancy so that data can be > recovered on-line when a disk blows. I wasn't advocating any > particular RAID level. The mirror device in Ken fs, for example, is > just fine. > Yes. I guess within the original meaning of the acronym, Google's scheme certainly counts - rather nicely! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From geoff@collyer.net Thu Apr 8 22:34:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 16:18:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id efba12ea_892c_11d8_9436_00304828b574_10707; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:18:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B979F3446CF for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef869c80_892c_11d8_9eeb_00304828b574_10704; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A43617580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5427580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef4dba82_892c_11d8_9874_00304828b574_10701; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3C23446CF for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee9bf5a4_892c_11d8_8990_00304828b574_10694; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CB9319E51; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 269E619C1B; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BAAEF19C1B; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7101719C25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 03:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008801f05ae3ee0044c59b31487384bf@collyer.net> From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <20040408123448.3ccdda4f.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:17:19 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I hadn't considered that angle, I just meant that perhaps Microsoft are so disorganised that they need a search engine to find their lost source code. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Thu Apr 8 22:34:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 17:56:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b7e224e_893a_11d8_88c7_00304828b574_1375; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633AC3447B4 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b4cbe84_893a_11d8_84e1_00304828b574_1369; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 48D2C7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092347580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b147740_893a_11d8_8a6f_00304828b574_1363; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097D73447B4 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9a5d921e_893a_11d8_88db_00304828b574_1358; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4319B1A041; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BA771A03E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CCA919AA3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDE8D199FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i388sqD00940 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:54:55 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <0390037d006b52575e2c534505bfa563@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <20040407204607.GA2551@ratsnest.hole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:54:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > How can I enforce static namespace semantics upon a process ? > Stop it from lying to its children about /dev/zero being /dev/random ? > Or letting them happily fill up the disk when writing to /dev/null ? By changing #/, of course. Just mount whatever root server you see fit. ++L From bwc@coraid.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 21:30:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 905d4566_8958_11d8_8c3c_00304828b574_19156; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEB5344944 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 902befca_8958_11d8_8f6b_00304828b574_19153; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 82DDC7580FB; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:30:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392B17580FA for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8fee4e9a_8958_11d8_93f2_00304828b574_19148; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:30:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E7D344944 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:30:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f40527c_8958_11d8_884e_00304828b574_19140; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:30:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE6051A054; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9F3C1A052; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22FAB1A04F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDBD119DB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6050c5d28564bcadde60869a566120fc@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <3385.165.247.30.229.1081390854.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:26:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > a@9srv.net said: >> > If every human being through the ages did that, [hid knowledge] >> > we'd all still be reinventing the wheel and throwing rocks. >> >> only in the absolute. allowing inventors to profit from their work >> also encourages future invention. there's a balance to be struck. >> current laws in the US involving generic drugs are one (very >> imperfect) example. original, pre-Disney copyright is another. >> =C3=A3=C2=82=C2=A2 >> >=20 > OTOH, patent law *does* require that the particulars of the invention b= e > released. You just can't *use* it w/o permission. And that is the crux of the matter. You invent to do stuff help create a product and sell it. We (society) will give you a monopoly on it for a very limited time if you tell us how you do it. We will stand on your shoulders and do new stuff based on what you have told us. Also, in 17 years we get to make more of them. The original concept of the Patent was invented in England to encourage Englishmen to figure out how the French were doing all the fancy stuff they were doing in textiles. Without doubt, if no patents, no Thomas Edison. No Thomas Edison, no power outlet. No power outlet, all the computers would have to run off kerosine. : ) Brantley From matt@proweb.co.uk Thu Apr 8 22:34:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 22:04:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48c91040_895d_11d8_9ce5_00304828b574_27061; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02BB03449B5 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48946098_895d_11d8_9d7d_00304828b574_27058; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3CD37580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:04:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CBEA7580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:04:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 485c2afc_895d_11d8_96bb_00304828b574_27055; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:04:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC85B3449B5 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47aec93e_895d_11d8_8c0f_00304828b574_27051; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:04:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F38819BCD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 864D71A05D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:04:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB36F1A05E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 725FC19BCD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 In-Reply-To: <6050c5d28564bcadde60869a566120fc@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:06:00 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: "If Mr Edison thought a bit more, he wouldn't have to sweat so much." No Mr Tesla, no AC power distribution m From bwc@coraid.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 22:31:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fa270c8_8961_11d8_83fc_00304828b574_31867; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249653450DC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f7310bc_8961_11d8_8f3b_00304828b574_31864; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0CC9B7580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1627580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f38ab16_8961_11d8_9739_00304828b574_31861; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA51A3450DC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e8ae42c_8961_11d8_8227_00304828b574_31857; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A303E1A069; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A1921A05F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:31:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 011321A060; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 588B71A05E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <915d0352dadf96ee369907c8cc1af698@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:28:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > "If Mr Edison thought a bit more, he wouldn't have to sweat so much." > > No Mr Tesla, no AC power distribution Al fired Tesla. Tesla never fired Al. : ) (My inventor can beat up your inventor!!) : ) PS. Besides, West Orange is close to Murry Hill. From bwc@coraid.com Thu Apr 8 22:34:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 22:31:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1887479a_8961_11d8_8432_00304828b574_31880; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27DC3450DC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 184bfc26_8961_11d8_8c7d_00304828b574_31877; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DEDC97580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 973C17580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 181313d4_8961_11d8_96e2_00304828b574_31874; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76833450DC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:31:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1765eba0_8961_11d8_892d_00304828b574_31870; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:31:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF2541A06F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A00F1A05F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:31:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58F341A05F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86C5519E9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:27:42 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > "If Mr Edison thought a bit more, he wouldn't have to sweat so much." > > No Mr Tesla, no AC power distribution Al fired Tesla. Tesla never fired Al. : ) (My inventor can beat up your inventor!!) : ) PS. Besides, West Orange is close to Murry Hill. From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 8 22:41:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f60e5fc_8962_11d8_8834_00304828b574_1150; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F6C3450F3 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f3045be_8962_11d8_820e_00304828b574_1147; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 239177580FA; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:41:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13627580F9 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ef15a34_8962_11d8_995e_00304828b574_1144; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7713450F3 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:41:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6e42fa34_8962_11d8_9422_00304828b574_1140; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36AF419DB0; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C36E219A7A; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B5771A065; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (borf.com [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6247119A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:31:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It's just too easy to hit that Post tag on acme! Sorry for the double post. Did you notice that acme has the same letters as emacs? I guess I'm just dense and never noticed this before. Missing the s though. Of course who would want to use an editor named sacme. ... or scame for that matter. Brantley From rminnich@lanl.gov Fri Apr 9 16:00:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 00:18:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04a9f466_8970_11d8_8ee8_00304828b574_25021; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:18:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4A9344A94 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:18:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04775f2e_8970_11d8_8af8_00304828b574_25013; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:18:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 037C47580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:18:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F477580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04234880_8970_11d8_951c_00304828b574_24982; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D69344A94 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:18:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 037255ca_8970_11d8_84dc_00304828b574_24946; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCF1D1A075; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7D501A06E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:18:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 623EC1A037; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5C2619FD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i38FHgik024408 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:17:42 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i38FHfdo011484 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:17:41 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i38FHfwO027908 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:17:41 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:17:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: OK, it is now all working, though it gets occasional weird errors (program.dis will fail due to 'bad character'). But at least it is sort of up. ron From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Fri Apr 9 16:00:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 00:19:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f64f8c2_8970_11d8_81eb_00304828b574_25785; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:19:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB143344A9C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f2d9aee_8970_11d8_9c82_00304828b574_25782; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B69207580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:19:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8037580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ef13694_8970_11d8_9cc4_00304828b574_25779; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740B0344A9D for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:19:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e3fbcac_8970_11d8_9ce2_00304828b574_25772; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:19:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9376D19B09; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 49B6A19ABB; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:19:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5057719A7A; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C3D719A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i38FIRCi017643 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:18:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i38FIOLL003723 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:18:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i38FIOM14700 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:18:24 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404081518.i38FIOM14700@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~=24bit color feedback request Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:18:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, Russ integrated a small patch that for me on a sun sparc fixes a color byte order problem for color depth >= 24. (in plan9/src/cmd/rio/color.c:/^colorpixel) Feedback whether this works on other platforms, for color depth >= 24 would be appreciated. Russ also integrated some code to allow resize/move by grabbing the border. Also for this, feedback welcome. Axel. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Fri Apr 9 16:00:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 00:53:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd1c34e0_8974_11d8_8beb_00304828b574_31804; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:53:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C151344AED for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:53:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dcebdd54_8974_11d8_8e10_00304828b574_31801; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:53:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2CFFD7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:53:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8E87580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:53:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dcad877a_8974_11d8_936a_00304828b574_31798; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:53:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB54F344AED for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:53:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbf6c7c4_8974_11d8_97b2_00304828b574_31794; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:53:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B55DA1A072; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32DFE19B6B; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:53:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A108A19B47; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D47C19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f892fac1c06222c25370acbbffee19e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] lingering network connections Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:52:19 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * I have a truckload of network connections lingering from a simple test I did: tcp 1467 network Closed 18001 7664 136.159.7.68 tcp 1468 network Closed 18001 7665 136.159.7.68 tcp 1469 network Closed 18001 7666 136.159.7.68 tcp 1470 network Closed 18001 7777 136.159.7.68 tcp 1471 network Closed 18001 7778 136.159.7.68 tcp 1472 network Closed 18001 7779 136.159.7.68 tcp 1473 network Closed 18001 7780 136.159.7.68 tcp 1474 network Closed 18001 7781 136.159.7.68 tcp 1475 network Closed 18001 7805 136.159.7.68 tcp 1476 network Closed 18001 8208 136.159.7.68 tcp 1477 network Closed 18001 8232 136.159.7.68 tcp 1478 network Closed 18001 8233 136.159.7.68 tcp 1479 network Closed 18001 8274 136.159.7.68 tcp 1480 network Closed 18001 8438 136.159.7.68 tcp 1481 network Closed 18001 8439 136.159.7.68 the remote machine has been rebooted long ago, but they still show in Plan 9. how do I clean them up? andrey From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 01:41:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 997f61ec_897b_11d8_9c00_00304828b574_10702; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1162D344B12 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9923edf8_897b_11d8_9550_00304828b574_10699; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EB6AB7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:41:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC7E7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 98b1c386_897b_11d8_8b77_00304828b574_10696; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA4A344B12 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97b1dc78_897b_11d8_9166_00304828b574_10692; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10D831A084; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C9221A07D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6109A1A07C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90BFD1A07A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lingering network connections From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <7f892fac1c06222c25370acbbffee19e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-snvubwrzzbbjdcbftzymmrpxtj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:41:27 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-snvubwrzzbbjdcbftzymmrpxtj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't think those are `lingering' in the sense that they are fin-wait-n or similar; the directory entry will be reused when someone else needs it. until then it shows the last call made through that directory. --upas-snvubwrzzbbjdcbftzymmrpxtj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by doppio; Thu Apr 8 16:58:28 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3E4011A076; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 608E519C89; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:53:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A108A19B47; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D47C19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f892fac1c06222c25370acbbffee19e@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] lingering network connections Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:52:19 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * I have a truckload of network connections lingering from a simple test I did: tcp 1467 network Closed 18001 7664 136.159.7.68 tcp 1468 network Closed 18001 7665 136.159.7.68 tcp 1469 network Closed 18001 7666 136.159.7.68 tcp 1470 network Closed 18001 7777 136.159.7.68 tcp 1471 network Closed 18001 7778 136.159.7.68 tcp 1472 network Closed 18001 7779 136.159.7.68 tcp 1473 network Closed 18001 7780 136.159.7.68 tcp 1474 network Closed 18001 7781 136.159.7.68 tcp 1475 network Closed 18001 7805 136.159.7.68 tcp 1476 network Closed 18001 8208 136.159.7.68 tcp 1477 network Closed 18001 8232 136.159.7.68 tcp 1478 network Closed 18001 8233 136.159.7.68 tcp 1479 network Closed 18001 8274 136.159.7.68 tcp 1480 network Closed 18001 8438 136.159.7.68 tcp 1481 network Closed 18001 8439 136.159.7.68 the remote machine has been rebooted long ago, but they still show in Plan 9. how do I clean them up? andrey --upas-snvubwrzzbbjdcbftzymmrpxtj-- From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 02:34:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f75912f2_8982_11d8_90ad_00304828b574_19299; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:34:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344CE344B94 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:34:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f71dbffe_8982_11d8_97b2_00304828b574_19295; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:34:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 159E87580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:34:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A927580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6dcfdf2_8982_11d8_96c6_00304828b574_19289; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01AC344B94 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:34:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f62f6c8c_8982_11d8_874f_00304828b574_19285; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:34:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2D751A078; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A560919B7C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94BEB19C84; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2A0F19C84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20040407T224834Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:39:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Though I don't recall ever needing extra mouse buttons under Inferno anyway... unfortunately you do (for instance the Cut/Snarf/Snarf/Send menu is accessed in a shell window with button 2). not to mention acme, which ain't great with only 1 one button (read: completely useless) if anyone here had a mac, we'd probably be able to do better. sorry! From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 02:46:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8e1db20_8984_11d8_8109_00304828b574_24456; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CF6344155 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8ab90ce_8984_11d8_8145_00304828b574_24451; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5EC1E758108; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:46:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9D07580FC for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:46:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6cbebaa_8984_11d8_9aed_00304828b574_24414; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:46:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173903441F5 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ec04a06_8984_11d8_8fc6_00304828b574_22874; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 131491A08A; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79C3A1A082; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36F7C19CDD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D112419CBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:48:05 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>if anyone here had a mac, we'd probably be able to do better. sorry! i'm trying to get one now. From jas@corpus-callosum.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 03:01:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6578a2c_8986_11d8_9650_00304828b574_26959; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6D7344B67 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c625f4da_8986_11d8_9878_00304828b574_26953; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:01:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DDE4F7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A147580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5e2a1a8_8986_11d8_8c06_00304828b574_26950; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2438344B67 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c53424ca_8986_11d8_9c81_00304828b574_26946; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B381A093; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D6CE1A08F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D0841A090; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com (ip-216-36-98-130.dsl.chi.megapath.net [216.36.98.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A3B21A08B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i38I0KfK090724 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:00:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <96592DF0-8986-11D8-A8DB-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:00:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The current/new emu binary I've sent to Charles should work with a three button mouse under Apple's X11. I've been running with various Logitech 3-button mice on two different machines without err. The only problem I've had with the latest release has been the supplied Mac OS X emu is one from pre 20031205, which doesn't live to long during the install and a few other things. I can send in a new binary if it's needed. jas From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 03:40:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 312612b0_898c_11d8_8f2a_00304828b574_1866; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9083344BDA for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30f007ba_898c_11d8_94ea_00304828b574_1860; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 963B77580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:40:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FF77580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30b49c84_898c_11d8_90ce_00304828b574_1854; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567C6344BDA for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 300545ae_898c_11d8_8e37_00304828b574_1845; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D0311A09B; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A3E019C89; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F3A619B5C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3E28E19C89 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:39:13 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:39:13 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAwNkbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040408T113912Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2004 18:39:13.0225 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9DE7390:01C41D98] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:39:12 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Good point... I've not used Acme under Inferno much >unfortunately you do (for instance the Cut/Snarf/Snarf/Send menu is >accessed in a shell window with button 2). > >not to mention acme, which ain't great with only 1 one button (read: >completely useless) From schwartz@bx.psu.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 03:52:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e58cfe8e_898d_11d8_884b_00304828b574_4059; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:52:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EEF344C1C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:52:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e55257e8_898d_11d8_8f27_00304828b574_4056; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:52:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 987647580FE; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:52:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589187580FD for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:52:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e50a0b0a_898d_11d8_81d1_00304828b574_4051; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:52:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4F5344C23 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e405f52a_898d_11d8_9838_00304828b574_4007; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:52:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 614211A0A1; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2019F1A0A3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:52:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6B371A0A3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ella.bx.psu.edu (ella.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1CF81A0A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schwartz by ella.bx.psu.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BBecX-0000je-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: From: Scott Schwartz Subject: [9fans] ports performance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've noticed that running (the ported version of) ls under OS X (10.2), it is very very slow. Profiling tools (is gprof+"recompile the world" all there is? why doesn't everyone have pixie!) didn't reveal much, but top shows that lookupd is burning lots of cycles. Apparently we're doing lots of lookups (of passwd entries I guess) that the native version doesn't do? Under linux the difference is very much less, but it's there. At first I attributed it to something minor like bio doing less buffering than stdio, but maybe that's not the whole story. From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 03:55:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5951c35e_898e_11d8_97f7_00304828b574_4553; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C340D344C3B for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58f0d9d6_898e_11d8_9ecd_00304828b574_4547; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ADACF7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:55:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC1F7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5889569e_898e_11d8_9cea_00304828b574_4541; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2031344C3B for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 57b45214_898e_11d8_9025_00304828b574_4536; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0813E199D9; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05CB5199BC; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 347551A0A3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E6151A0A4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <66b2af3667a4bbd0af8fc574fb87c96d@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-eiuafwyfhecldmblarrerpnigb" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:59:50 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-eiuafwyfhecldmblarrerpnigb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it probably doesn't cache user-id->name mappings. --upas-eiuafwyfhecldmblarrerpnigb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by doppio; Thu Apr 8 19:57:41 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C89521A09D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF3641A09D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:52:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6B371A0A3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ella.bx.psu.edu (ella.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.41]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A1CF81A0A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schwartz by ella.bx.psu.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BBecX-0000je-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: From: Scott Schwartz Subject: [9fans] ports performance Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:51:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've noticed that running (the ported version of) ls under OS X (10.2), it is very very slow. Profiling tools (is gprof+"recompile the world" all there is? why doesn't everyone have pixie!) didn't reveal much, but top shows that lookupd is burning lots of cycles. Apparently we're doing lots of lookups (of passwd entries I guess) that the native version doesn't do? Under linux the difference is very much less, but it's there. At first I attributed it to something minor like bio doing less buffering than stdio, but maybe that's not the whole story. --upas-eiuafwyfhecldmblarrerpnigb-- From robpike@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 03:58:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b5f1bb28_898e_11d8_8ba1_00304828b574_5176; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7D4344E54 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b5c193e4_898e_11d8_9d0e_00304828b574_5173; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5FCC47580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160AC7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b58038f4_898e_11d8_96c4_00304828b574_5170; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:58:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25015344E54 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 03:58:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4cec2cc_898e_11d8_88dc_00304828b574_5163; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:58:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C99211A082; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4F98E19B18; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9700419AC8; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7B3FE199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r65so2007cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.117.14 with SMTP id p14mr2060cwc; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <66b2af3667a4bbd0af8fc574fb87c96d@vitanuova.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:57:43 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: because of the way ls works on plan 9, a simple port to unix makes every ls as expensive as ls -l. -rob From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:10:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60c2d036_8990_11d8_8606_00304828b574_10822; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:10:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C80A34416B for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:10:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 606b483e_8990_11d8_9420_00304828b574_10811; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:10:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F2C1D7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:10:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9223F758109 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:10:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c66984c_8990_11d8_9d7e_00304828b574_10746; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:10:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1879234420B for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:08:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d664dcc_8990_11d8_97ee_00304828b574_9765; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:08:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C4501A0B1; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FD861A0AD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99DDD1A0A9; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7A8FD1A0A1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24222 invoked by uid 991); 8 Apr 2004 19:07:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20040408190702.24221.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance In-reply-to: References: <66b2af3667a4bbd0af8fc574fb87c96d@vitanuova.com> Comments: In-reply-to Rob Pike message dated "Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:57:43 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | because of the way ls works on plan 9, a simple port to unix makes | every ls as expensive as ls -l. Of course, and I expected that, but I'm seeing something much slower, like several minutes for "ls -l /usr/bin /usr/bin /usr/bin /usr/bin /usr/bin". From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:11:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89dc060e_8990_11d8_8d15_00304828b574_11102; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7EF34415C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89a67688_8990_11d8_8110_00304828b574_11099; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6A81C7580FB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2397580FA for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 897385e8_8990_11d8_9acc_00304828b574_11096; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:11:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D2B34415C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:11:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88c00752_8990_11d8_9eb7_00304828b574_11090; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:11:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A11611A0AF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A15031A0B3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C0D01A0A9; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E93F61A082 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:10:30 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:10:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAQQkbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040408T121029Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2004 19:10:30.0283 (UTC) FILETIME=[28AEC5B0:01C41D9D] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:10:29 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It's nice and fun to be able to run Plan 9's ls on other systems, but = really quite useless, when there's already an ls on every unix. >>> Rob Pike 4/8/2004 11:57:43 AM >>> because of the way ls works on plan 9, a simple port to unix makes every ls as expensive as ls -l. -rob From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:16:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dd7eac4_8991_11d8_917d_00304828b574_11900; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E79634425C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3da89e7c_8991_11d8_9328_00304828b574_11897; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B8267580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:16:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14047580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d411310_8991_11d8_8ad5_00304828b574_11894; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA6534425C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c946570_8991_11d8_8f1b_00304828b574_11890; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 615AA1A0B5; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C93A51A083; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:16:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04FEF1A0A2; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7D9E19CBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38e4aff5d1efd9489d4cfd066d8ba6dd@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20040408T121029Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:21:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > It's nice and fun to be able to run Plan 9's ls on other systems, but > really quite useless, when there's already an ls on every unix. plan 9's is more useful. not to mention i can remember how the options work... From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:26:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a5b44966_8992_11d8_914f_00304828b574_13682; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E236344BF3 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a58380a6_8992_11d8_9771_00304828b574_13679; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 20C687580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:26:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6747580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a5431eee_8992_11d8_8b10_00304828b574_13676; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC30A344BF3 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:26:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a4969476_8992_11d8_8af1_00304828b574_13672; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 806931A0C5; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B41C1A0C3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79F351A0BD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F09AB1A0B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2142b7f8a34aa346635653ed6a3546d7@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:25:19 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I have a mac but only access it via vnc over gigabit ether, which doesn't get all the funny Mac keys right and throws off the timing of everything. I think there's something wrong with the OS X vnc server; vnc was much snappier when I used it browse the web on openbsd at a mere 100Mb/s. From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:29:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0cb8cac4_8993_11d8_9f97_00304828b574_14111; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162C8344C09 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c883a8a_8993_11d8_81eb_00304828b574_14108; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:29:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EA4CF7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:29:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99847580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c4bb240_8993_11d8_8fd2_00304828b574_14105; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BA1344C09 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:29:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b99b2e8_8993_11d8_976b_00304828b574_14093; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:29:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5100019B40; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6AF119B70; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:29:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1051519ACD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B61E19AAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01dc176690fe0b98b9b529ff628cbcf9@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:28:51 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On OS X, getpwuid() of a uid that isn't in the netinfo/lookupd magic databases is excruciatingly slow. I turn off as much of that goo as I can and make it just read /etc/passwd, etc. netinfo is just another yellow pages (nis for the young ones). From a@9srv.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:38:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 531cdba8_8994_11d8_80e8_00304828b574_16620; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A393442D7 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52ec136a_8994_11d8_85f8_00304828b574_16615; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 884C57580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:38:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE647580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5295bdf8_8994_11d8_990b_00304828b574_16605; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CCA344C31 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:38:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51945496_8994_11d8_9d95_00304828b574_16581; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:38:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41A4519DA3; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C695A19C28; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:38:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9260919B2C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C62A119C86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance In-Reply-To: <20040408T121029Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:35:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // It's nice and fun to be able to run Plan 9's ls on other // systems, but really quite useless, when there's already // an ls on every unix. as rog already pointed out, plan9's is often better than the vendor-supplied one. and almost always has a smaller set of options. and, most importantly, those options are the same across every platform, as is their output. =E3=82=A2 From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:45:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 578eb926_8995_11d8_870f_00304828b574_17589; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:45:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952BF344C2A for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:45:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 575a0ece_8995_11d8_8562_00304828b574_17586; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:45:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 74A3B7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:45:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291FE7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:45:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 571677f4_8995_11d8_8e87_00304828b574_17580; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:45:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378FD344C2A for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:45:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56686d76_8995_11d8_83a0_00304828b574_17573; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:45:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 326E219B32; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BE6D19B1C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:45:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 213AD19D0F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 05C9819B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24523 invoked by uid 991); 8 Apr 2004 19:44:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20040408194444.24522.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance In-reply-to: <20040408T121029Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: AAQQkbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040408T121029Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Ben Huntsman message dated "Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:10:29 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:44:44 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | It's nice and fun to be able to run Plan 9's ls on other systems, but | really quite useless, when there's already an ls on every unix. The point it to understand what's happening, so we know if something in a port library needs fixing. From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:46:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c3f8508_8995_11d8_9927_00304828b574_17718; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D007344C2C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c0986e2_8995_11d8_9bf0_00304828b574_17715; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3A2897580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:46:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52DE7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:46:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6bcffce2_8995_11d8_960e_00304828b574_17712; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:46:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000E4344C2D for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:46:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b223e40_8995_11d8_8ac6_00304828b574_17701; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:46:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 049AF19B2C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CA19199D7; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98E1119B28; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BAE8719B2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so1086cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.62 with SMTP id v62mr5169cwb; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <253943F2.5739C297@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01dc176690fe0b98b9b529ff628cbcf9@collyer.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:45:11 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It is in fact getpwuid and getgrgid that are taking the time, not the extra stat calls. (Quite stupid given that I'm asking the same questions over and over again -- you'd think the routines would not need to work so hard the second time!) I just checked into CVS a version of _p9dir that caches the last uid and gid it looked up. This should speed up the overwhelming majority of cases. I built a new tarball too, since there have been a handful of other minor changes. In response to the utility comment, if you don't want Plan 9's ls, you can put /bin in your path before /usr/local/plan9/bin, and never worry again. Personally, I like the fact that Plan 9's ls -l is more compact on the screen, that it does quoting of special names for me, and that I don't have to learn the differences between all the different ls commands on the various Unixes I have to use. Ditto (even more so) for ps. Russ From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:52:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44bca55a_8996_11d8_93f9_00304828b574_19225; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8735B344C3C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 448b49a6_8996_11d8_8ee3_00304828b574_19222; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6A09A7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224E07580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 444c304a_8996_11d8_949d_00304828b574_19219; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:52:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32247344C3C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:52:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 439f01ea_8996_11d8_9ad9_00304828b574_19215; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:52:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BF0019F8B; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1738619B2C; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:52:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F27D19A63; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C4EF319B32 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24609 invoked by uid 991); 8 Apr 2004 19:51:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20040408195102.24608.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance In-reply-to: <253943F2.5739C297@mail.gmail.com> References: <01dc176690fe0b98b9b529ff628cbcf9@collyer.net> <253943F2.5739C297@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to Russ Cox message dated "Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:45:11 -0700." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:51:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | I just checked into CVS a version of _p9dir that stat2dir.c and _p9dir.c are very similar... should they be refactored do you think? From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 04:58:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c72ef36_8997_11d8_818d_00304828b574_20062; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CCD344C59 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c33194c_8997_11d8_90b6_00304828b574_20059; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1A2277580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:58:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EF57580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bcc48e8_8997_11d8_9ed1_00304828b574_20055; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5885344C59 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b1d5716_8997_11d8_9183_00304828b574_20048; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:58:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC14919BCD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2EFE819FB5; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63FAF19B32; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.240]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4BC3519DCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so1107cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.65 with SMTP id v65mr5325cwb; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <252C165F.408971F7@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01dc176690fe0b98b9b529ff628cbcf9@collyer.net> <253943F2.5739C297@mail.gmail.com> <20040408195102.24608.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:57:33 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: stat2dir.c was a dreg. it's gone now. From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 05:01:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88da8580_8997_11d8_96ef_00304828b574_20728; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5024E344C6C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88a8ad76_8997_11d8_9428_00304828b574_20725; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3283D7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:01:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC517580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88675d44_8997_11d8_86cc_00304828b574_20722; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAC8344C6C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87b97ecc_8997_11d8_93e0_00304828b574_20718; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB66319FD2; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB98219F8D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 755F019B32; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4288E19DCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:00:49 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:00:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAgRkbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040408T130048Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2004 20:00:49.0694 (UTC) FILETIME=[306453E0:01C41DA4] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:00:48 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Yes, I've never found a VNC server that works correctly under Mac OS X... = clients are a dime a dozen, though... >>> Geoff Collyer 4/8/2004 12:25:19 PM >>> I have a mac but only access it via vnc over gigabit ether, which doesn't get all the funny Mac keys right and throws off the timing of everything. I think there's something wrong with the OS X vnc server; vnc was much snappier when I used it browse the web on openbsd at a mere 100Mb/s. From enache@rdslink.ro Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 05:18:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ead47000_8999_11d8_943c_00304828b574_23669; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5469344E83 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea9f4632_8999_11d8_89e4_00304828b574_23666; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 68ED87580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:18:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12ADD7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea3d12b4_8999_11d8_8fc2_00304828b574_23663; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15696344E83 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:18:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e98e3514_8999_11d8_988e_00304828b574_23659; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:18:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C61D19FC7; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31B6319DCB; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E790F19BCD; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdslink.ro (mail.rdslink.ro [193.231.236.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BE0319B5C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12938 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2004 20:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) (81.196.254.152) by mail.rdslink.ro with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 20:16:10 -0000 From: Enache Adrian To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Message-ID: <20040408201926.GA1514@ratsnest.hole> Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <20040407204607.GA2551@ratsnest.hole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:19:27 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 a.d., Geoff Collyer wrote: > Why would you bind /dev/random onto /dev/zero and why would you > consider it a security problem if you did? Likewise for binding an > ordinary file onto /dev/null. What's wrong with enforcing upon a process truerand() returning random numbers and not zero every time ? bind() may dramatically change the meaning of any file operation on Plan 9 - and is itself not constrained by file permissions, etc. Sometimes one may want to turn such a powerful feature off :-) And generally, being able to control with rfork() flags the couple of things Plan 9 still do without reading or writing files seemed to me like a not completely ireasonable idea. Of course, that may not be as useful as I first thought. Regards, Adi From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 05:31:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8e3d93e_899b_11d8_9ba1_00304828b574_28610; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E56344246 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8a37e16_899b_11d8_983f_00304828b574_28598; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 67E567580FF; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B7F758104 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c680233c_899b_11d8_8b84_00304828b574_28572; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB29344252 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9e8e97dc_899b_11d8_9bca_00304828b574_27980; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4054719CCF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB02519C91; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:30:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C63E319BAE; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE4F319BB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <198820d72089ed1919a12950b31c081b@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040408201926.GA1514@ratsnest.hole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:27:06 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: If you want to make sure that you're getting the real /dev/random, unmount /dev/random (but not /dev) first, or bind -b '#c' /dev again. I don't think anybody has been persuaded yet that it's worth expending the effort and increasing the kernel's complexity to restrict bind with rfork flags. From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 05:31:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8e39a8c_899b_11d8_932a_00304828b574_28609; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5203441F7 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8a27322_899b_11d8_8603_00304828b574_28599; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0D7897580FB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A707580FA for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6ac2662_899b_11d8_9fe4_00304828b574_28574; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44AF344162 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:31:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8581c2a_899b_11d8_996c_00304828b574_28197; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:31:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AF8819D64; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E717719D55; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:30:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A18319C96; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7045719BB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so1192cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.23 with SMTP id x23mr5611cwb; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2551C921.76D09E44@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040407204607.GA2551@ratsnest.hole> <20040408201926.GA1514@ratsnest.hole> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:29:26 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > What's wrong with enforcing upon a process truerand() returning > random numbers and not zero every time ? If you start the process yourself, then you'll know that /dev/random is okay, assuming you're not shooting yourself in the foot on purpose. If you start an untrusted program and then have it start the process, all bets are off, as you have observed. But if you're letting an untrusted program start some other program, you have other things to worry about -- like the untrusted program might edit the binary to remove all the calls to truerand() before executing it. Or might just not run the binary and run its own entirely different version. There's no sense in trying to lock down this one thing. The solution is not to rely on untrusted programs to do your work for you. Russ From rog@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 9 16:00:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 05:37:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 895651a6_899c_11d8_9770_00304828b574_29558; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C22F3442DB for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 891964bc_899c_11d8_941f_00304828b574_29553; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 73B127580F9; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288A57580FA for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88dcb38c_899c_11d8_9ac2_00304828b574_29549; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:37:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D693442DB for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:37:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 882ee630_899c_11d8_9eb5_00304828b574_29536; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:37:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92FB119DCB; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD36019D2F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0532B19D16; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD55219D2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <946860799ffc675cc795c4315cafbbbc@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <2551C921.76D09E44@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:42:25 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: the reason this is a problem in unix is the setuid bit. various setuid programs expect to see files (e.g./etc/passwd) in their expected place. if you can replace 'em, you can break the system. hence chroot is a superuser-only system call. if you don't have setuid programs, it's not a problem. as far as i can see, this was one of the major "too deep to fix" problems with unix. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:55 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 06:27:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 888bdf50_89a3_11d8_9e6f_00304828b574_6933; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:27:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA914344EAE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 884e9000_89a3_11d8_8594_00304828b574_6930; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9654F7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:27:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE477580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8813f65c_89a3_11d8_88b9_00304828b574_6927; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D429344EAE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:27:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87675ac8_89a3_11d8_98c5_00304828b574_6923; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:27:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CEBF19D55; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9454619B96; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D16019B66; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6599919B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E6E2A57434 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:26:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <055d01c41daf$a5dca680$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:22:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > No Mr Tesla, no AC power distribution AC is good. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:55 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 06:28:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab10d31e_89a3_11d8_90d5_00304828b574_7115; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:28:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17B8344EAE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:28:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aadaffe6_89a3_11d8_8d52_00304828b574_7112; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:28:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8E3467580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:28:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450A37580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:28:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aaa124ec_89a3_11d8_9ef0_00304828b574_7109; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:28:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54933344EAF for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9f24454_89a3_11d8_8e02_00304828b574_7102; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 06:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE96619DEF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9AD9919B96; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:28:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E201319DBF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B04419B96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9D6557434 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:27:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <056a01c41daf$db5e5010$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <915d0352dadf96ee369907c8cc1af698@borf.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:24:20 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > PS. Besides, West Orange is close to Murry Hill. hoboken train, waz the closin' doors. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 07:04:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b55ca42e_89a8_11d8_8a2f_00304828b574_15358; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6689434433F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b5270c24_89a8_11d8_95fc_00304828b574_15355; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 52DF57580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0965B7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4ec746a_89a8_11d8_83d7_00304828b574_15352; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1797434433F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b43ec536_89a8_11d8_9952_00304828b574_15348; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C0D919C5F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2519F19CA9; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:04:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9898E19C89; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DD2519C3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.196.12]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 65ADA3798F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:03:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <05c701c41db4$e996f600$0cc47d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] lingering network connections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 00:00:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i don't think those are `lingering' in the sense that they are fin-wait-n yup, sounds right. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 07:09:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 684f36be_89a9_11d8_84a2_00304828b574_16190; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBD2344367 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 681a8c20_89a9_11d8_9f26_00304828b574_16186; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8C7BC7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:09:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44AE47580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67e1e47e_89a9_11d8_9093_00304828b574_16180; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561A9344367 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:09:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67364d30_89a9_11d8_87ff_00304828b574_16175; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9960819DEF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92EDF19C3E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 59CF719C89; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CCDE19C3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0414a9def343c4033a5bb42c823032c8@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <2551C921.76D09E44@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:09:22 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>about -- like the untrusted program might edit the binary to remove >>all the calls to truerand() before executing it. for instance, and more easily, by dynamically substituting an unexpected libc-2.74.5.beta-9 From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Fri Apr 9 16:00:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 07:13:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7cdc38c_89a9_11d8_814a_00304828b574_16783; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6714734436E for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f79d6f52_89a9_11d8_94bc_00304828b574_16780; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B5D77580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A507580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f75ef092_89a9_11d8_801f_00304828b574_16777; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:13:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F1834436E for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6b1f5a4_89a9_11d8_95df_00304828b574_16773; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:13:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D5BE19F83; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 45D9519DBF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65E0119DBF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4941219C3E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lingering network connections From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <05c701c41db4$e996f600$0cc47d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:12:30 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * >> i don't think those are `lingering' in the sense that they are fin-wait-n > > yup, sounds right. bad choice of words... I meant 'should I be seeing those directories in /net/tcp?' It's confusing when netstat reports them, though if they're being reused it's acceptable :) andrey From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 9 16:00:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 07:23:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5000918c_89ab_11d8_935d_00304828b574_19473; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:23:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1D9344374 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:23:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4fbd1be6_89ab_11d8_99d3_00304828b574_19466; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:23:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0C309758101; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:23:03 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CCF758102 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:22:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4abab6c6_89ab_11d8_9319_00304828b574_19298; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:23:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF0C344374 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:22:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36992c86_89ab_11d8_836c_00304828b574_18963; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:22:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A39E19F9E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5485819B99; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0AF7719F4A; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B446019B99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970e29326e881af1180cac0f4cd12c3f@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] lingering network connections From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:21:07 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: That's a hard question. `Should' by whose authority? It's certainly normal, if unhelpful. I usually run `netstat | grep -vi close' (`-i close' because the spelling and case of `Closed' used to vary; it looks like they are standardised now). If I weren't interested in listeners but only in established connections, I'd use `netstat | grep Established'. From brucee@chunder.com Fri Apr 9 16:01:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 08:51:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab8428d2_89b7_11d8_83d0_00304828b574_5977; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:51:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E757344CF1 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:51:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab49c5ca_89b7_11d8_98c5_00304828b574_5974; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:51:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 072D97580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:51:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CAD7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:51:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aad411b8_89b7_11d8_94ca_00304828b574_5971; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:51:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A74344CF1 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:51:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa263cfa_89b7_11d8_9d6e_00304828b574_5967; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:51:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C42C19F8D; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 901A019DBF; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:51:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3573919CE9; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A2AE219D08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7089 invoked by uid 89); 8 Apr 2004 23:44:17 -0000 Received: from cpe-203-51-68-70.nsw.bigpond.net.au (HELO cc77109e) (203.51.68.70) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 23:44:17 -0000 Message-ID: <010901c41dc4$9da24730$8201a8c0@cc77109e> From: "Bruce Ellis" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0414a9def343c4033a5bb42c823032c8@terzarima.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 Organization: www.chunder.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:52:22 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: do they have glibc swap meetings there? i hear they are popular with the pre-teens in japan. brucee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Forsyth" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] x10 > >>about -- like the untrusted program might edit the binary to remove > >>all the calls to truerand() before executing it. > > for instance, and more easily, by dynamically substituting an unexpected libc-2.74.5.beta-9 > > From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:01:20 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 11:34:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c6aa0ac_89ce_11d8_9903_00304828b574_12121; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:34:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1949D344209 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:34:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c3a1fe0_89ce_11d8_9502_00304828b574_12067; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:34:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ABED47580F9; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:34:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CB3758102 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:33:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a89a350_89ce_11d8_913f_00304828b574_12061; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:33:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3D4344427 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:33:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a81ca0a_89ce_11d8_8cec_00304828b574_11887; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:33:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2705A19F9E; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8FBF219BE4; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:33:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C6C7519EF2; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 89A6C19BEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so1904cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.34 with SMTP id x34mr8346cwb; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2385D6D1.9278905@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ports performance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:32:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > it is very very slow. Profiling tools (is gprof+"recompile the world" > all there is? why doesn't everyone have pixie!) didn't reveal much, > but top shows that lookupd is burning lots of cycles. Apparently we're Slightly off-topic, but pct (see http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/cb/pct/) provides the functionality of Plan 9's tprof and, like tprof, doesn't require recompiling. It probably wouldn't have found your problem (ls wasn't the one chewing cycles), but I've found it much more useful than gprof. The invocation is a little odd. It really needs a better wrapper. Russ From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 9 16:01:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 12:36:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bad1af0_89d7_11d8_9fd4_00304828b574_28111; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5DB3444E2 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b7d9136_89d7_11d8_853c_00304828b574_28108; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CEE157580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:36:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1BD7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b37674c_89d7_11d8_9664_00304828b574_28105; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BA03444E6 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:36:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a83c642_89d7_11d8_9bfa_00304828b574_28093; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:36:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD4FC19D4F; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9205519B67; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:36:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4771219D2A; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F08C219CAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2005cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.61 with SMTP id u61mr8700cwc; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <23CB6555.7FF610D0@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] new binaries on sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:35:00 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: There are a lot of new binaries on sources now. We'd fallen a little behind in recompiling programs that needed it. Don't be alarmed. Russ From salomo3@cooper.edu Sat Apr 10 00:26:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 9 22:01:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00462334_8a26_11d8_8607_00304828b574_29958; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351133448C2 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00142a64_8a26_11d8_8451_00304828b574_29955; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1618A7580FA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:01:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF64E7580F9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffd21e26_8a25_11d8_9375_00304828b574_29952; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF313448C2 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff235832_8a25_11d8_8e80_00304828b574_29948; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E796119D1D; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE68F19C11; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1847F19CC6; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C450A19B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id BB7233939; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E3703937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pnp103.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.103]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1220.199.98.20.103.1081514958.squirrel@wish> From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Subject: [9fans] AGP Pro Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just got a new, dual athlon motherboard to replace a dead one. Says it uses agp pro - does plan9 have any issues with that? Supposedly I can use my old agp card (that is plan 9-supported) in the slot, but I haven't gotten it to work yet. --Joel From info@ieskok.lt Sat Apr 10 19:30:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 01:47:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86a3f23e_8a45_11d8_8246_00304828b574_14715; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:47:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA1A3441FE for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:47:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8671a090_8a45_11d8_8338_00304828b574_14711; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:47:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A93CC75810C; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:47:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED31F7580FA for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:46:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84047c88_8a45_11d8_8020_00304828b574_14563; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:46:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214083447F6 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:43:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0d61d0bc_8a45_11d8_8c44_00304828b574_12947; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:43:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CFF719DFB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA63519D80; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E03CE19D6E; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cse.psu.edu (81-7-83-117.ip.takas.lt [81.7.83.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3B11419B91 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: info@ieskok.lt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="48083422" Message-Id: <20040409164220.3B11419B91@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [Virus Delete] :[9fans] hi Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:44:42 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=MICROSOFT_EXECUTABLE, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --48083422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit do you? --48083422-- From tom@insolvencyhelp.org Sat Apr 10 19:30:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 05:38:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e06caaa2_8a65_11d8_824b_00304828b574_28140; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B899344C24 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e03a7ca8_8a65_11d8_88e6_00304828b574_28137; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6E7447580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269DA7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dffb4bd2_8a65_11d8_96cb_00304828b574_28134; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9E1344C24 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df534be4_8a65_11d8_9028_00304828b574_28130; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98AFC19DE3; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 807FD19DB9; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93CA219D58; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8308619DB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aluminum.miller.net (h0004e267c13e.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.91.163.177]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004040920370601300sudffe>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:37:06 +0000 From: "Thomas Miller" Organization: InsolvencyHelp.Org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] plan 9 hosting? Message-ID: <40770940.nailBU21AHLV@insolvencyhelp.org> User-Agent: nail 10.6 11/15/03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Thomas Miller" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:36:16 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, May I please introduce myself as a lawyer in Boston who is interested in plan 9? I presently run my one person practice on NetBSD, and I would like to move to plan9. I am writing today because my very inexpensive web hosting contract is up for renewal. My site is http://www.insolvencyhelp.org. Besides the hosting, I also store 2 or 3 MB of encrypted files, use shell access, and receive email on the existing Red Hat server. If anybody might want to host me on plan9, please get in touch by private email. Thanks! Tom Miller From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 06:22:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0344d972_8a6c_11d8_86c8_00304828b574_4887; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03AF2344C0D for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 031344ca_8a6c_11d8_86a0_00304828b574_4883; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D94217580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E3B7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02d37070_8a6c_11d8_9786_00304828b574_4880; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9BBE344C0D for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 022b546c_8a6c_11d8_942a_00304828b574_4877; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29B3819E11; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6E2119E0C; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19A4B19B80; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E185319E0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ADBD237A7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:21:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002c01c41e78$496a5270$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <40770940.nailBU21AHLV@insolvencyhelp.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 hosting? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:19:02 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: From: "Thomas Miller" > If anybody might want to host me on plan9, please > get in touch by private email. one word: 'confidentiality'. From scusi@xs4all.nl Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 08:49:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8665625e_8a80_11d8_9e69_00304828b574_3684; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67E7344362 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8633c3d4_8a80_11d8_96b6_00304828b574_3681; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C94547580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804967580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85f3e232_8a80_11d8_9a2f_00304828b574_3678; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991E8344362 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 854c46bc_8a80_11d8_9959_00304828b574_3675; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F29019E14; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 18AC919B88; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:49:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 151A819D72; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (smtp-out5.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8580119B78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ivan (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i39Nmsk2031539 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:48:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Scusi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] german keyboard map ? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:53:47 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: hi 9fans, my plan9 computer is a IBM T20 with a german keyboard. i would like to have the keyboard mapped proper. i found the kbmap(2,3) manpages. but when i try to execute kbmap i just get a "bin/kbmap: file not found" back. also searching for kbmap with "du -a | grep kbmap" brought up nothing looked like a executable binary, but the source though. It also looks like there is no german keymap by default in /sys/lib/kbmap. Can someone please point me in the right direction. thx in advance /~scusi From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:10:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8344c63e_8a83_11d8_9738_00304828b574_7292; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AFB5344C5F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82a045e6_8a83_11d8_95b0_00304828b574_7270; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 174147580F9; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9AE57580FC for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8239683a_8a83_11d8_9163_00304828b574_7264; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF93344C5F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79177648_8a83_11d8_870b_00304828b574_7165; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:10:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D74619F8D; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59E8719B88; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B855519B88; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5292519AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36f8403f20bb487d8a8ee7da53bb8885@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:08:41 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * kbmap isn't compiled on sources, you'll have to do it yourself: % cd /sys/src/cmd % mk kbmap.install you need to have the appropriate permissions to do it, of course. as for a german keyboard -- there doesn't appear to be a mapping at the moment. feel free to create one :) andrey > hi 9fans, > > my plan9 computer is a IBM T20 with a german keyboard. i would like to have > the keyboard mapped proper. i found the kbmap(2,3) manpages. but when i try to > execute kbmap i just get a "bin/kbmap: file not found" back. also searching for > kbmap with "du -a | grep kbmap" brought up nothing looked like a executable > binary, but the source though. It also looks like there is no german keymap > by default in /sys/lib/kbmap. > > Can someone please point me in the right direction. > > thx in advance /~scusi From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:18:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97848fb6_8a84_11d8_9185_00304828b574_9492; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7C0344369 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97508edc_8a84_11d8_8fb9_00304828b574_9489; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 745267580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C937580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96fcf5c4_8a84_11d8_929b_00304828b574_9486; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB03344369 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 965432cc_8a84_11d8_815b_00304828b574_9483; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE5D019E2C; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C686419E26; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:18:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BEA4B19F8D; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6D5E19E26 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 074B4575D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:16:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00ba01c41e90$c34f6220$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:14:15 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > execute kbmap i just get a "bin/kbmap: file not found" back. it's not an executable, it's a file in /dev which you cat one of: brahma% pwd /n/sources/plan9/sys brahma% ls -l lib/kbmap --rw-rw-r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 23680 Mar 25 07:54 lib/kbmap/ascii --rw-r--r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 735 Mar 16 16:50 lib/kbmap/azerty --rw-rw-r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 561 Mar 16 17:23 lib/kbmap/bgmap --rw-r--r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 429 Mar 25 08:43 lib/kbmap/ee --rw-rw-r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 1360 Mar 17 09:57 lib/kbmap/es --rw-rw-r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 369 Mar 18 08:41 lib/kbmap/fi --rw-rw-r-- M 1916609 presotto sys 55 Mar 16 16:50 lib/kbmap/uk onto, to change the map. they're easy to write, just look at the examples. From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:21:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 040056b6_8a85_11d8_900a_00304828b574_9944; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D030344C7C for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03cbe39a_8a85_11d8_9aa5_00304828b574_9941; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8A8F17580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D9E7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03883f3c_8a85_11d8_8379_00304828b574_9938; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49296344C7C for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02e055d8_8a85_11d8_8916_00304828b574_9935; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:21:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15B4A19FAB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D4E219F9F; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AAE919FBC; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DBBAA19E2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 979F7575D7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:20:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00c201c41e91$4609b8f0$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl> <00ba01c41e90$c34f6220$19d37d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:17:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: oh, there's a program too. hmm, news to me. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:24:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ad10232_8a85_11d8_8d01_00304828b574_10375; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14DF0344C85 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a947736_8a85_11d8_8b3d_00304828b574_10367; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0032B7580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDE07580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a5c1ef4_8a85_11d8_9094_00304828b574_10362; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FA4344C8A for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69b4b42a_8a85_11d8_9185_00304828b574_10358; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:24:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8484B19FAB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B53E19F9F; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:24:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF54419F9F; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 161C519D85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9b5b5323a8c21e6bd77dfa174a7fa084@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <00ba01c41e90$c34f6220$19d37d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:23:21 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * >> execute kbmap i just get a "bin/kbmap: file not found" back. > > it's not an executable, it's a file in /dev which you cat one of: > there's actually an executable too, kbmap(1), which allows you to switch between keyboards via a gui. andrey From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:28:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe1166fe_8a85_11d8_836c_00304828b574_11230; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3255A344C9F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fde021a2_8a85_11d8_86fa_00304828b574_11227; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 185297580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F717580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fda1e220_8a85_11d8_82e1_00304828b574_11224; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B179344C9F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc9feb1a_8a85_11d8_9dae_00304828b574_11221; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7184719FCD; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0621C19FAB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F1A719FAA; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2975919F9F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CBEAD575F3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:27:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00e901c41e92$2bf12920$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9b5b5323a8c21e6bd77dfa174a7fa084@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:24:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > there's actually an executable too, kbmap(1), which allows you to > switch between keyboards via a gui. i still prefer cat :) From scusi@xs4all.nl Sat Apr 10 19:30:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:46:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83a41da0_8a88_11d8_84a3_00304828b574_14106; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49311344CEB for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83731e80_8a88_11d8_8355_00304828b574_14103; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2D9EB7580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D0E7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8334ddfa_8a88_11d8_9fee_00304828b574_14100; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC4A344CEB for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8281547e_8a88_11d8_8492_00304828b574_14094; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:46:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABDBD19F9E; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D343719FC7; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A72E19FAB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (smtp-out5.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9533519F8D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ivan (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out5.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3A0jjk2062853 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:45:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Scusi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? Message-Id: <20040410024930.49bf1b47.scusi@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <36f8403f20bb487d8a8ee7da53bb8885@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl> <36f8403f20bb487d8a8ee7da53bb8885@plan9.ucalgary.ca> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:49:30 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: hi 9fans, On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:08:41 -0600 andrey mirtchovski wrote: > kbmap isn't compiled on sources, you'll have to do it yourself: O.K. that was easy, and worked. But i can't get the device file working right. kbmap say: "can not open /dev/kbmap: file does not exist" > as for a german keyboard -- there doesn't appear to be a mapping at > the moment. feel free to create one :) will do, but how i find out about the keycodes of my keyboard, to get the mapping right. is there something on plan9 that does what "xev" does on unices ? What stands this unicode character (03ba) in the kbmap(3) manpage for ? thx ~/scusi From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 09:53:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d9055ae_8a89_11d8_98ce_00304828b574_15123; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD673450FE for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d5d9cc2_8a89_11d8_8e02_00304828b574_15120; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71EF27580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3198C7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d22a658_8a89_11d8_826f_00304828b574_15117; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492773450FE for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c7a2d34_8a89_11d8_95bc_00304828b574_15113; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:53:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4D8F19FEF; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D0E619FAB; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:53:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9A7C19FBC; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 82B8519FAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA726573AD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:52:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00f801c41e95$b3adf8e0$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl><36f8403f20bb487d8a8ee7da53bb8885@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040410024930.49bf1b47.scusi@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:49:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > But i can't get the device file working right. kbmap say: > "can not open /dev/kbmap: file does not exist" you'll have to recompile your kernel & reboot. searches the archives. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 10 19:30:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 10:02:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc12cec8_8a8a_11d8_8402_00304828b574_17315; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4344344342 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb2f1eda_8a8a_11d8_80f1_00304828b574_17307; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 01C2B7580FC; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70631758106 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9ca0b5e_8a8a_11d8_90e2_00304828b574_17287; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:02:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641963443A5 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:01:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9117b5b2_8a8a_11d8_9fdd_00304828b574_16754; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:01:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42D3B19FDC; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECA4519FF3; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:00:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F39A19FDC; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA68119FC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <20040410024930.49bf1b47.scusi@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:59:04 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > O.K. that was easy, and worked. > But i can't get the device file working right. kbmap say:=20 > "can not open /dev/kbmap: file does not exist" it's a device you need to bind to dev, the device is named '#=CE=BA' (gre= ek small letter kappa), you can either generate it by 'alt+*+k' or pick it up from /lib/keyboard: % bind -ac '#=CE=BA' /dev % kbmap after you've convinced yourself that it works you can put it in /rc/bin/termrc and /rc/bin/cpurc... > will do, but how i find out about the keycodes of my keyboard, to get > the mapping right. is there something on plan9 that does what "xev" doe= s > on unices ? it'll suffice to list all the different glyphs that should be generated by the different keyboard keys.. starting with 'ascii' and substituting is probably a good idea, or you can look the key correspondance in X, or on the web... >=20 > What stands this unicode character (03ba) in the kbmap(3) manpage for ? "greek small letter kappa", check /lib/keyboard or see the unicode comman= d... > =20 > thx ~/scusi andrey From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 10:06:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3facea5c_8a8b_11d8_8e80_00304828b574_19233; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B37CE34427B for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f77c566_8a8b_11d8_8552_00304828b574_19229; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 66CA67580F9; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:06 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E796E758105 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d35e17a_8a8b_11d8_93f3_00304828b574_19201; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:06:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3B73442C7 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:03:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id deed7f56_8a8a_11d8_9501_00304828b574_17781; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:03:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C82961A03B; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58B0C1A029; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0466619FF9; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6528A19FEF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 13FA75728A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:02:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <015701c41e97$28d41860$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040410015347.43d5ba28.scusi@xs4all.nl><36f8403f20bb487d8a8ee7da53bb8885@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <20040410024930.49bf1b47.scusi@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keyboard map ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:00:03 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "David Presotto" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: [9fans] devkbmap.c > I included the boyd/forsyth keyboard map stuff in the > kernel. man kbmap for details. > > In general you can > > bind -a'#=CE=BA' /dev > cat /dev/kbmap > /tmp/xxx > edit /tmp/xxx > cat /tmp/xxx > /dev/kbmap > > I also changed /sys/src/9/boot/boot.c to automaticly > load a map if specified in plan9.ini as > kbmap=3D > > In this case has to be something you can get > at before there's a file system so you'll have to > make sure its in /boot/. The reason it gets done > so early is that factotum starts before you have an > fs and it would be nice if your keyboard had the > right mapping when you type in your login name > ans password. > > No idea of the boot change works yet. Haven't tested > it... > > As usual, my apologies to the japanese/chinese/etc. > > I'll put any mapping files I get into /sys/lib/kbmap > on sources. From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 10 19:30:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 14:29:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e86d26a_8ab0_11d8_8ffa_00304828b574_11653; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65DD3445B1 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e557b5c_8ab0_11d8_878b_00304828b574_11648; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 88D2C7580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4229E7580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e170d4a_8ab0_11d8_8464_00304828b574_11645; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59ED73445B1 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0d6e8ecc_8ab0_11d8_869a_00304828b574_11641; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:29:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFBBE1A09D; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE2AE1A07B; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8A4A1A07B; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5855719C4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3A5SHik007300 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:28:18 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3A5SHdo025418 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:28:17 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3A5SHwO006170 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:28:17 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:28:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I"m getting use to option-button for middle button and 'apple-button' for right button. works just fine. ron From dvd@davidashen.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 15:15:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77505b1c_8ab6_11d8_91d8_00304828b574_20123; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726BF344ED3 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 771f7a1a_8ab6_11d8_8625_00304828b574_20120; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 47B507580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DB47580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76d80cb6_8ab6_11d8_85e9_00304828b574_20117; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18D7C344ED3 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76303a54_8ab6_11d8_8f3d_00304828b574_20111; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:15:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4434C19B24; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 97BC41A008; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF6FE19E5A; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (unknown [217.113.20.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F50D19B24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (localhost.davidashen.net [127.0.0.1]) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3A6Bqem081229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:11:52 +0500 (AMST) (envelope-from dvd@adat.davidashen.net) Received: (from dvd@localhost) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i3A6BqkH081228 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:11:52 +0500 (AMST) From: David Tolpin Message-Id: <200404100611.i3A6BqkH081228@adat.davidashen.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:11:52 +0500 (AMST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, this is not cheating or trolling, really. I had written quite a bit of parallel, asynchronously and synchronously intercommunicating code for emacs. GNU Emacs is an OS with multitasking, good API for parallel programming, and a single unifying paradigm: everything is an edit buffer. Including special devices, directories etc. What are advantages of Plan9's everything is a file server over it? David Tolpin http://davidashen.net/ From robpike@gmail.com Sat Apr 10 19:30:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 15:33:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd524584_8ab8_11d8_8b1a_00304828b574_26176; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369833445D7 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd17500a_8ab8_11d8_9d4e_00304828b574_26173; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 23D527580FB; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98947580FA for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fce4a33a_8ab8_11d8_81c6_00304828b574_26170; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0713445DA for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc3ab104_8ab8_11d8_9589_00304828b574_26161; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:33:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 973571A0AC; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FE8A1A092; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 382591A092; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F277E1A08C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r65so5246cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.117.42 with SMTP id p42mr3430cwc; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200404100611.i3A6BqkH081228@adat.davidashen.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 23:32:27 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: saying 'everything is an edit buffer' doesn't get you very far. you still need to talk about naming, authentication, security, remote access, and so on. you do get a user interface, though, and that is clearly a powerful starting point. saying 'everything is a file' brings along with it everything to do with files that we're already familiar with: naming, permissions, security, and so on. a really telling detail is that network file systems are well understood, so if we make everything a file we immediately have remote access to everything. we don't have a user interface to something, at least the way emacs has (editing etc.) but we do have shell scripts and other ways to build things from basics. 'better' is a bad term when comparing system design. the goals of systems differ. but i think that 'file' brings more powerful and systems-capable ideas to the table than does 'edit buffer'. -rob From dvd@davidashen.net Sat Apr 10 19:30:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 16:49:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8758cd7a_8ac3_11d8_855f_00304828b574_9610; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:49:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27CF3441C8 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:48:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87185d76_8ac3_11d8_8893_00304828b574_9596; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:48:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F0B3E7580FD; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:48:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E5D7580FA for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:48:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84c0b9b0_8ac3_11d8_9b7b_00304828b574_9513; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:48:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73826344622 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:45:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b71ffc4_8ac3_11d8_9e3a_00304828b574_7826; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:45:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7189519E00; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B374C19E29; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:45:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4ECF19DFF; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (unknown [217.113.20.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DE8A19C6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (localhost.davidashen.net [127.0.0.1]) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3A7fQem081456 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:41:26 +0500 (AMST) (envelope-from dvd@adat.davidashen.net) Received: (from dvd@localhost) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i3A7fQHa081455 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:41:26 +0500 (AMST) From: David Tolpin Message-Id: <200404100741.i3A7fQHa081455@adat.davidashen.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 In-Reply-To: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:41:26 +0500 (AMST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Rob, thanks a lot for the explanation. I think I understood it. David From matthias@mteege.de Sat Apr 10 22:32:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 21:41:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 64c67b30_8aec_11d8_8321_00304828b574_2235; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2F13448D2 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6494ca5e_8aec_11d8_8003_00304828b574_2232; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1006E7580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4407580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6456effe_8aec_11d8_9645_00304828b574_2229; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61963448D2 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 63aeaa24_8aec_11d8_9119_00304828b574_2226; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 531001A050; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9625C19E39; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:41:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D566719EA5; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 53FFA19E97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 77692 invoked by uid 66); 10 Apr 2004 12:40:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 43930 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2004 12:39:00 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2004 12:39:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 62213 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2004 12:38:59 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2004 12:38:59 -0000 Message-ID: <96ff515ffb9786a6970696e90ba4c920@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] server presented public key different than expected Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:37:17 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I try to connect one of my servers via ssh and get server cao presented public key different than expected (expected key in /usr/mtg/lib/keyring). will not continue. this could be a man-in-the-middle attack. I understand the problem but there isn't any public key for server cao in /usr/mtg/lib/keyring. It has only two lines for different servers. Is there any other place where public keys are saved? Many thanks Matthias From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 10 22:32:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 22:21:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f36bfe82_8af1_11d8_904a_00304828b574_10944; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B303444D5 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f334d8f8_8af1_11d8_9c84_00304828b574_10939; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 48DD47580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D51758106 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f175e5f2_8af1_11d8_926a_00304828b574_10922; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:21:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23988344542 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:20:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7301186_8af1_11d8_81f7_00304828b574_10513; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:20:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42C8019FD9; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B13819E93; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:20:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A760E19DDC; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F2FB519B84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so112cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.2 with SMTP id u2mr365cwc; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3A0CBFF9.608ADA9D@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:19:54 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I"m getting use to option-button for middle button and 'apple-button' for > right button. works just fine. clearly you don't use acme. From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 10 22:32:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 10 22:26:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a77451e0_8af2_11d8_9fc7_00304828b574_11778; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B0134487F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a742ec54_8af2_11d8_9d3f_00304828b574_11775; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E0B2E7580FA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999167580F9 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a704dcb6_8af2_11d8_80da_00304828b574_11772; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11E534487F for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a65c5d84_8af2_11d8_9db0_00304828b574_11769; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:26:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F09519F6D; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11DF119C2C; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AE7D19DDC; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3A81A19C2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so118cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.38 with SMTP id x38mr380cwb; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3A063882.56972951@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] server presented public key different than expected Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <96ff515ffb9786a6970696e90ba4c920@mteege.de> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:25:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > server cao presented public key different than expected > (expected key in /usr/mtg/lib/keyring). will not continue. > this could be a man-in-the-middle attack. > > I understand the problem but there isn't any public key > for server cao in /usr/mtg/lib/keyring. It has only two > lines for different servers. Is there any other place where > public keys are saved? ssh tries to figure out the canonical names for servers so that you don't get prompted over and over as you use slightly different names for each machine. in /sys/src/cmd/ssh.c, after the call to setaliases, put print("host aliases: %s\n", c->aliases); perhaps one of those is matching a key in that file. the message is accurate -- it's really that file that has the key. russ From pooka_regent@pool-141-157-249-31.ny325.east.verizon.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 00:23:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 000ee486_8b03_11d8_8218_00304828b574_2986; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8392B344991 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffcebd66_8b02_11d8_8f4d_00304828b574_2980; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 752C07580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160987580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff8a3cb8_8b02_11d8_9da3_00304828b574_2977; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DAF344991 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fedd1b32_8b02_11d8_948e_00304828b574_2973; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:23:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A0D319C34; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE25419BE5; 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Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1ed8196c_8b05_11d8_9aaf_00304828b574_5217; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 96EE519A2D; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C53419A2D; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D39819C93; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-gw4.njit.edu (mail.njit.edu [128.235.251.32]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 229E619C17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.njit.edu (webmail.njit.edu [128.235.251.121]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id i3AFbCVa006383 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by webmail.njit.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) id i3AFbBI25845 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] boost your heaIlth Message-ID: <1081611431.407814a7b9932@webmail.njit.edu> From: gam9478@njit.edu References: <777ICLE7E23KG2D8@cse.psu.edu> <486EBJ5890HI9LEF@pool-141-157-249-31.ny325.east.verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <486EBJ5890HI9LEF@pool-141-157-249-31.ny325.east.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4 X-Originating-IP: 62.169.213.194 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable heh=20 >:) George Marselis -><- Ghost In My Shell From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:01:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 575bf54e_8b08_11d8_8156_00304828b574_11879; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAAC3449D4 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 572a50de_8b08_11d8_8058_00304828b574_11876; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6F81E7580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EAA7580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56e82dd0_8b08_11d8_9468_00304828b574_11873; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D45C3449D4 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 564045ac_8b08_11d8_8ac3_00304828b574_11870; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:01:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D3771A0AC; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BB791A074; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:01:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE8CC1A058; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8794519E80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A3742572A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:00:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <028a01c41f14$977c9df0$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <777ICLE7E23KG2D8@cse.psu.edu> <486EBJ5890HI9LEF@pool-141-157-249-31.ny325.east.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] boost your heaIlth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:57:55 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > After the age of twenty-one, your body slowly stops releasing an important hormone known as Humapn Growth Hormone. After the age of twenty-one, your body slowly stops being able to spell ;) From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:29:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 39d09e18_8b0c_11d8_92b8_00304828b574_16166; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00711344A41 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 399ea98a_8b0c_11d8_853c_00304828b574_16163; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D5D887580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1827580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 395caecc_8b0c_11d8_8c98_00304828b574_16160; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A93344A41 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38b3ba2e_8b0c_11d8_87fd_00304828b574_16157; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:29:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0402819B77; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 236EE19B36; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E75B1A074; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D98319E87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGS6ik001658 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:28:06 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGS6do007073 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:28:06 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGS6wO021218 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:28:06 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 In-Reply-To: <200404100611.i3A6BqkH081228@adat.davidashen.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:28:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: interesting, I saw a talk from a bellcore dude in 1990 who was using emacs for distributed/parallel programming for telco stuff. emacs is kind of a poor man's lisp machine for those who remember such. Emacs could run under plan 9, plan 9 can not run under emacs. I guess I think of one of these as a superset of the other, guess which one :-) ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:31:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7510bc88_8b0c_11d8_94d0_00304828b574_16449; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A72C344A4B for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 74d91d0a_8b0c_11d8_9326_00304828b574_16409; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 47C467580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B7E7580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 749fa66a_8b0c_11d8_88e8_00304828b574_16406; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA1C344A4B for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73efdd2a_8b0c_11d8_8154_00304828b574_16399; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:31:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD58819D05; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A174419BEA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:30:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73BFD19D05; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2ABC519B6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGTtik001764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:29:55 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGTsFb002932 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:29:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3AGTswO021253 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:29:54 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x In-Reply-To: <3A0CBFF9.608ADA9D@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:29:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Russ Cox wrote: > > I"m getting use to option-button for middle button and 'apple-button' for > > right button. works just fine. > > clearly you don't use acme. ?? I've been using acme on inferno on macosx for a while now, so do not get your comment. You have left, middle, right buttons with no trouble if you can adapt to the keyboard+mouse button usage, which was my point. ron From robpike@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:48:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e60192bc_8b0e_11d8_913f_00304828b574_19359; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D946C344A5D for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5d07b46_8b0e_11d8_8276_00304828b574_19356; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BACA47580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CAB7580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e58f1e76_8b0e_11d8_885f_00304828b574_19353; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89825344A5D for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4e77a90_8b0e_11d8_9c99_00304828b574_19344; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:48:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E66F819BCA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7A1419AE6; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:48:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA40A19A21; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A240E19AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r65so6380cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.119.6 with SMTP id r6mr4034cwc; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:47:51 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: does the chording work? i'm impressed. -rob From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:55:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df86b9de_8b0f_11d8_8eca_00304828b574_20530; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1F1345058 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df5536f2_8b0f_11d8_96ab_00304828b574_20527; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5C7EA7580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DE37580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df13654c_8b0f_11d8_8494_00304828b574_20524; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9AD345058 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de6c59d2_8b0f_11d8_9e08_00304828b574_20521; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:55:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18F4619A21; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26D9019A21; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E455C19BCE; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB10519AFD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so422cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.53 with SMTP id u53mr1066cwc; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BC90EF1.504737CF@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:54:20 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > ?? I've been using acme on inferno on macosx for a while now, so do not > get your comment. You have left, middle, right buttons with no trouble if > you can adapt to the keyboard+mouse button usage, which was my point. do you use chords? i find chording with simulated mouse buttons almost impossible to master. From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:56:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id feeef37c_8b0f_11d8_9acb_00304828b574_20667; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4903450B0 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id feb9d886_8b0f_11d8_89c3_00304828b574_20664; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 197187580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65F47580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe81894a_8b0f_11d8_8011_00304828b574_20661; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8783450B0 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fdda2894_8b0f_11d8_8e0c_00304828b574_20658; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 096CC19BEB; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4571A19BCE; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D2E2B19C4A; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.251]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B93D019B87 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so424cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr1058cwb; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BC6DE74.67966B77@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: rsc@swtch.com List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:55:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > plan 9 can not run under emacs. are you sure? plan 9 is typically pretty easy to port to a new architecture. From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 01:57:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2214dcf4_8b10_11d8_95a2_00304828b574_20875; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCA9345141 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 21da3806_8b10_11d8_96ff_00304828b574_20872; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 092B97580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60107580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 21a1fd60_8b10_11d8_8824_00304828b574_20869; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC5E345141 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 20f91998_8b10_11d8_8520_00304828b574_20866; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:57:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43E7E19DF2; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAB3019BCE; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:57:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E05419BCA; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66EE319A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C122637A90 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:56:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02bb01c41f1c$66993b00$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:53:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > emacs is kind of a poor man's lisp machine for those who remember such. that reminds me of the vi(1) [editor] turing machine. > Emacs could run under plan 9, plan 9 can not run under emacs. I guess I > think of one of these as a superset of the other, guess which one :-) could you port plan 9 to the vi(1) turing machine? ;) From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 02:03:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9f92d46_8b10_11d8_96e6_00304828b574_21880; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9E434514E for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9c7909c_8b10_11d8_8e46_00304828b574_21877; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3F6FF7580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC527580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9886c14_8b10_11d8_84d3_00304828b574_21874; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1052C34514E for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8e0c22a_8b10_11d8_8648_00304828b574_21871; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:03:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 07F5019DD0; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D53219D2F; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:03:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B113E19AB2; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A681919A21 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 906B137B97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:02:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02c501c41f1d$23292c30$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <3BC90EF1.504737CF@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:59:07 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > do you use chords? i find chording with simulated mouse buttons > almost impossible to master. i find chording impossible to master, 'cept on guitar. From kjn9@citizenearth.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 11 03:18:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7967d91a_8b1b_11d8_8126_00304828b574_4851; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA1F3450C0 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7932f600_8b1b_11d8_855b_00304828b574_4848; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 095AF7580FA; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DCC7580F9 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78fa21ea_8b1b_11d8_8eeb_00304828b574_4845; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E5F3450C0 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78534168_8b1b_11d8_814c_00304828b574_4842; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:18:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D871819DF6; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 41C2219C2C; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:18:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94CD719CB9; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.dirac.net (195-97-240-22.onyx.net [195.97.240.22]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9322219A53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4667 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Apr 2004 18:19:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20040410181903.4666.qmail@mail.dirac.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 From: Keith Nash Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: 10 Apr 2004 18:19:03 -0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > GNU Emacs is an OS with multitasking, good API for parallel programming GNU/Emacs is a great OS - I just wish it had a better text editor. From scusi@xs4all.nl Mon Apr 12 22:32:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 04:07:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8379963e_8beb_11d8_80c0_00304828b574_6533; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E935F344208 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 830acd94_8beb_11d8_824b_00304828b574_6529; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D68EA7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372B37580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 829b868c_8beb_11d8_9e2b_00304828b574_6526; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E798344208 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81785afa_8beb_11d8_9a50_00304828b574_6523; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF5AF19F25; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 760A119F25; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:07:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 892F919F25; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out1.xs4all.nl (smtp-out1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.11]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD61E1998C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ivan (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3BJ6rsN017489 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:06:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Scusi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <20040411211444.7c7d7e52.scusi@xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_21_14_44_+0200_Z1h7idM8UxRcaMTb" Subject: [9fans] german keymap Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:14:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_21_14_44_+0200_Z1h7idM8UxRcaMTb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi 9fans, thank you for your help regarding the keymap issue. I got it solved, attached you find the german keymap is suitable for my IBM T20. I haven't tested it on any other system, but the scancodes look the same on my T30 Laptop, so it is hopefully also working at least on other IBM Thinkpads. In any case it should be a good starting point to other german keyboards. Because i found no way with "unicode" and "ascii" to get the decimal value for stuff i found in /lib/unicode. i wrote a littel tool that simply takes a hex value and gives back the value as a decimal integer. the tool is called "hex2dec" and is also attached. Maybe it is useful for other ppl that need to write their own keymap. Feel free to send me comments about my code, since i'm just learning c constructive feedback is welcome. One speciality in the keymap is that i put small greek kappa letter on AltGr + k, because i found it handy for binding the kbmap device ;-) Cheers /~scusi --Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_21_14_44_+0200_Z1h7idM8UxRcaMTb Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="de" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="de" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgICAgICAgIDAgCiAgICAgICAgICAwICAgICAgICAg ICAxICAgICAgICAgIDI3CiAgICAgICAgICAwICAgICAgICAgICAyICAgICAgICAgIDQ5IAogICAg ICAgICAgMCAgICAgICAgICAgMyAgICAgICAgICA1MCAKICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgICAgICAgIDQg ICAgICAgICAgNTEgCiAgICAgICAgICAwICAgICAgICAgICA1ICAgICAgICAgIDUyIAogICAgICAg ICAgMCAgICAgICAgICAgNiAgICAgICAgICA1MyAKICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgICAgICAgIDcgICAg ICAgICAgNTQgCiAgICAgICAgICAwICAgICAgICAgICA4ICAgICAgICAgIDU1IAogICAgICAgICAg MCAgICAgICAgICAgOSAgICAgICAgICA1NiAKICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgICAgICAgMTAgICAgICAg ICAgNTcgCiAgICAgICAgICAwICAgICAgICAgIDExICAgICAgICAgIDQ4IAogICAgICAgICAgMCAg 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vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19ED7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1edb4a70_8bef_11d8_9e0b_00304828b574_10927; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CC23448CD for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:33:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e32a5be_8bef_11d8_8c9d_00304828b574_10924; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:33:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 940C119F51; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C490219EAB; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78C7019F4E; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50F4419EAB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B48985737C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:32:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <04d101c41ffb$3ff35320$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040411211444.7c7d7e52.scusi@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:28:55 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > thank you for your help regarding the keymap issue. I got it solved, > attached you find the german keymap is suitable for my IBM T20. cool. does a german keyboard look like this? http://www.insultant.net/uk/BP2004/DSC00551.JPG you might like this: vr.c which is a dumb filter to debug rune problems, outputing glyph, Unicode value, UTF sequence and an optional comment. http://www.insultant.net/code/plan9/vr.c From scusi@xs4all.nl Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 04:57:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77930b82_8bf2_11d8_8160_00304828b574_14503; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89447344ABA for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7732d852_8bf2_11d8_9903_00304828b574_14500; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3E5F07580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966597580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76a274e2_8bf2_11d8_9477_00304828b574_14497; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C60344ABA for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75cb11aa_8bf2_11d8_87ef_00304828b574_14494; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:57:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A12919F74; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7C3219F56; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:57:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B03A219F5C; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.xs4all.nl (smtp-out3.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.13]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6425F19F57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ivan (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out3.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3BJuYrY073597 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:56:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Scusi To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap Message-Id: <20040411220007.64eafba3.scusi@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <04d101c41ffb$3ff35320$19d37d50@SOMA> References: <20040411211444.7c7d7e52.scusi@xs4all.nl> <04d101c41ffb$3ff35320$19d37d50@SOMA> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_22_00_07_+0200_mxRepxUDW5FfO.Ri" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:00:07 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_22_00_07_+0200_mxRepxUDW5FfO.Ri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:28:55 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: > > thank you for your help regarding the keymap issue. I got it solved, > > attached you find the german keymap is suitable for my IBM T20. > > cool. does a german keyboard look like this? > > http://www.insultant.net/uk/BP2004/DSC00551.JPG yeah, basically. > > you might like this: > > vr.c which is a dumb filter to debug rune problems, outputing glyph, > Unicode value, UTF sequence and an optional comment. > > http://www.insultant.net/code/plan9/vr.c > > well, sort of what i looked for. Actually i just found out, that there is one character missing. i attached a patch for it. But now it is good, i double checked each key. /~scusi --Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_22_00_07_+0200_mxRepxUDW5FfO.Ri Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="kbmap.de.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="kbmap.de.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Mzg5YzM4OQo8ICAgICAgICAgICAzICAgICAgICAgICA0ICAgICAgICAgICAwIAotLS0KPiAgICAg ICAgICAgMyAgICAgICAgICAgNCAgICAgICAgICAgMTY3IAo= --Multipart=_Sun__11_Apr_2004_22_00_07_+0200_mxRepxUDW5FfO.Ri-- From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 05:07:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id deb45b12_8bf3_11d8_8284_00304828b574_16107; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588C4344AD2 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de7eded8_8bf3_11d8_8d0e_00304828b574_16104; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0773B7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B348A7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de1ee99c_8bf3_11d8_9f84_00304828b574_16101; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA05C344AD3 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd760fd4_8bf3_11d8_8dd4_00304828b574_16094; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:07:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3515819F56; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDEF019F56; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:07:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B0F819F56; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0A6719F53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F3DF379E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:06:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <04fe01c42000$1a6ce710$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040411211444.7c7d7e52.scusi@xs4all.nl><04d101c41ffb$3ff35320$19d37d50@SOMA> <20040411220007.64eafba3.scusi@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:03:47 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > cool. does a german keyboard look like this? > > > > http://www.insultant.net/uk/BP2004/DSC00551.JPG > > yeah, basically. that's why i took the shot, so i'd have an idea of what one might look like now. From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 07:12:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5305574e_8c05_11d8_99b4_00304828b574_7269; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E230634452A for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52cbaee0_8c05_11d8_9ebf_00304828b574_7266; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CB47D7580FB; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8647580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 528d64f0_8c05_11d8_90f7_00304828b574_7262; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988C534452A for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51e67f78_8c05_11d8_82f8_00304828b574_7257; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80C3319F20; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD85C19B68; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:12:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E60F319F10; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FB1E19C4E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <997f919d90dd12f4cf577ea7ea3bbd5a@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040411211444.7c7d7e52.scusi@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:10:58 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: One can convert between decimal and other bases (radices) using bc, by setting the input or output base: ; bc ob=16 1024 400 ; bc ib=16 400 1024 ; For more general radix conversion, I use db: : cpu; db cannot open `8.out': '8.out' directory entry not found 386 binary 0x400=D 1024 0t1024=X 0x400 0400=D 256 0400=X 0x100 From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 07:41:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6271d3d4_8c09_11d8_81e4_00304828b574_12258; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4A8344B72 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 621a11e4_8c09_11d8_89dd_00304828b574_12255; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 731CA7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE1D7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61bbaf1e_8c09_11d8_8ba0_00304828b574_12252; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05786344B72 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 610bdb5c_8c09_11d8_893b_00304828b574_12249; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 025CE19F41; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B0CC19C32; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30E9E19BE7; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EFBE419BA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so3187cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.55 with SMTP id x55mr6763cwb; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35245206.10F8414F@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <997f919d90dd12f4cf577ea7ea3bbd5a@collyer.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:39:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > One can convert between decimal and other bases (radices) using bc, by > setting the input or output base: Or, if you're on Unix, Eric Raymond suggests that the tool of choice is his very own "ascii" [sic]. http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch09s01.html#id2939746 "One indication that this program was a good idea is the fact that it has an unexpected use =E2=80=94 as a quick CLI aid to converting between decimal, hex, octal, and binary representations of bytes." Might be the best sentence in the book. Russ From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 07:56:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c75646a_8c0b_11d8_96fc_00304828b574_14489; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773DD344BB5 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c44fd02_8c0b_11d8_8c4a_00304828b574_14486; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 36D057580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60C97580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7be0d05c_8c0b_11d8_932f_00304828b574_14483; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F10344BB5 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b3937f2_8c0b_11d8_8c1c_00304828b574_14480; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:56:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE7DE19F08; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 719D719F08; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:56:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D1F119F39; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48F9619E67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0caab737d10a64d1875c24ac3b56c7be@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <35245206.10F8414F@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:55:31 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On real Unix, one can use bc and adb. awk's printf would work too. > "One indication that this program was a good idea is the fact that > it has an unexpected use s/ the fact// Unexpected by whom? (I'm not a fan of Eric Raymond.) From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 09:02:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2181712_8c14_11d8_803f_00304828b574_28130; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5234344BD9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b1e6d058_8c14_11d8_8d29_00304828b574_28127; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CC8BE7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839767580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b1a9d360_8c14_11d8_8c86_00304828b574_28124; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B343344BD9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b10177c4_8c14_11d8_8839_00304828b574_28121; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BD7C19F55; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4151019F4B; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC71719F44; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AB00E19C2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so3331cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr7107cwb; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <329B4CD3.4318298D@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <0caab737d10a64d1875c24ac3b56c7be@collyer.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:01:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > s/ the fact// > Unexpected by whom? (I'm not a fan of Eric Raymond.) I think it's safe to say that using a character code display program as a makeshift radix-converter is unexpected. If you did the same trick with unicode(1), I wouldn't expect that! On the other hand, awk is a programming language, bc a calculator, and adb a debugger, all of which I'd expect to be able to do radix conversions in. I just find it amusing that this completely bizarre use is proof that the program is a good idea. If it does many things poorly, it must be a better tool than those pesky programs that do only one thing well. Russ From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 09:07:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 633e7860_8c15_11d8_9473_00304828b574_28985; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E0F344BE5 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 630dd750_8c15_11d8_86fa_00304828b574_28982; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 07D187580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B560C7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 62cf8a72_8c15_11d8_8fe7_00304828b574_28979; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF133344BE5 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 62287ca0_8c15_11d8_879b_00304828b574_28976; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:07:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9993E19F55; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B9E619F44; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:07:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF02F19F4B; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 959E719C2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <329B4CD3.4318298D@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:06:06 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I think he's latching onto a comment, probably in Software Tools, that one measure of a good tool is that people find uses for it other than those anticipated by its author(s). But, yes, it first has to be a sharp tool that does one thing well. From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 09:09:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6a97014_8c15_11d8_876b_00304828b574_29323; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400F7344BED for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a67943b2_8c15_11d8_9a7f_00304828b574_29320; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 12F647580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3807580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a61fc080_8c15_11d8_85ab_00304828b574_29317; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF308344BED for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a57907d6_8c15_11d8_9971_00304828b574_29314; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2533519F53; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E569D19F55; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:09:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C169219C0E; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EC9E19BC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <527486345b132273ec6ae42f8206dd26@collyer.net> From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] sources up and authenticating? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:08:33 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've been unable to get in since Friday, with complaints that authentication failed. Is sources up and authenticating correctly? Are others getting in (via 9fs)? From delivery@hosyou-r.mine.nu Mon Apr 12 22:32:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 09:21:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a1ac818_8c17_11d8_9db0_00304828b574_31540; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC839344C24 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59e43b04_8c17_11d8_8fcd_00304828b574_31537; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9E22D7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FAB7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 599c9498_8c17_11d8_8213_00304828b574_31534; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24545344C24 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58ce0150_8c17_11d8_9c53_00304828b574_31531; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:21:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 904D119F75; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C43219F63; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:21:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF9F519F3F; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hosyou-r.mine.nu (p1061-ipad402marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp [222.146.113.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0ECCF19F49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hosyou-r.mine.nu (unknown [192.168.3.80]) by hosyou-r.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF9F5540B4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:20:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <13041006.1081729203962.JavaMail.postgres@hosyou-r.mine.nu> From: =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B=24B=22!3Z!9=25H=25/=25H=25/=25S=258=25M=1B=28B?= =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B=24B=259=3EpJs=24H=24*E75=24=3EpJs=3CR=1B=28B?= To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B$B#52/#9@iK|1=5F>Z5r!&=3DPMh$k=1B(B?= =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B$B:=5FBp%S%8%M%9$H:#F|$NA49q$*=1B(B?= =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B$BE75$>pJs!!=3D54V$a$k$^$,Bh#4=1B(B?= =?iso-2022-jp?Q?=1B$B#1#09f!J=1B(B8,000=1B$BItG[=3F.=1B(B)?= Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:20:03 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=PLING_QUERY, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** 9fans@cse.psu.edu$BMM!"(B $B$*FI$_D:$-!"$"$j$,$H$&$4$6$$$^$9!#(B $B!~K\%a%k%^%,$NG[?.ITMW!"$^$?$OEPO?$7$?3P$($N$J$$>l9g$O(B $B!!0lHV2<$N"!E75$M=Js!&KhD+8+$l$k!*A49q$N$*E75$"!(B $B!!!!$N4V$K$"$k%"%I%l%9$G2r=|$5$;$FD:$-$^$9!#!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!!~#52/#9@iK|1_>Z5rM-%S%8%M%9!*9b3[6b3[$O4X?4$,9b$$!~(B $B!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B"!<}F~>Z5r3NG'$7$F!c#5@iK|1_Cy6b$,M_$7$$! /1_$N;v6H;q(B $B!!6b$,M_$7$$!&O78e$N$?$a$K#4@iK|1_M_$7$$!&0B?4$N0Y$KJ]>Z(B $B!!$,M_$7$$!&%M%C%H$G#7@iK|1_0J>e<}F~$,M_$7$$!&>\$7$$;qNA(B $B!!$rM_$7$$!&qY$5$l$?$/$J$$$N$G9b3[<}F~$N>Z5r$,M_$7$$!&!d(B $B!"Ey$NJ}!9$K:GE,:_Bp%S%8%M%9$G$9!#4{$K#32/!"#52/#9@iK|1_(B $B!!<}F~Z5r8+$F$/$@$5$$!"$=$l$+$i$G$9!*(B $B!!:[H=$O>Z5r$GH=7h!&>Z5r$O(B http://break.at/hosyou $B!!(B $B$+$i!"2?;v$bO@$h$j>Z5r!&:[H=41$NL\$G$*3N$+$a?d>)!*!*(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!!!!!!!!!(B $B5.J}MM$O!*$4B8$8$G$9$+!*(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!$D$$$K%0%i%s%I%*!<%W%s$NF|Dx$,7h$^$j$^$7$?!*(B $B!!$=$l$^$G$K5.J}$N%]%8%7%g%s$r3NJ]$7$FCV$$$F2<$5$$!*(B $B!!0l=54VM-8z$N2>EPO?$G%]%8%7%g%s$r3NJ]$7$F!"(B $B!!$=$N$"$H$f$C$/$j8!F$$7$F$/$@$5$l$P7k9=$G$9!#(B $B!!>&IJ!"%7%9%F%`%W%i%s$H5.J}$K$H$C$FM-Mx$JJ*$P$+$j$G$9!#(B $B!!5^$$$G!"$43NG'2<$5$$!*$3$A$i$h$j!!"-!!!!"-!!!!"-(B $B!!(B $B!!(Bhttp://fortuna.love-jpn.com/index.cgi?id=world $B!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!F/$/%^%^$N!*;d$K$b=PMh$k;v!*(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B%-%l%k;R6!C#!&ITEP9;$J$I!&!&;R6!$bBg?M$b%9%H%l%9$NB?$$(B $B@$$NCf(B,$B$=$l$i$rM=KI!&7Z8:$9$k!V#I#Q!W!V#E#Q!J?4$NCNG=;X(B $B?t!K!W$KCeL\!*!*(B $BBg@Z$J2HB2$N0Y$K$O$8$a$F$_$^$7$?(B $B:_8K$J$7!&%;%_%J!<;22C$J$7!&=i?4\:Y$O3Z$7$$#M#L$K$F!&!&(B http://stage-one.jp/jc/myao/ $B!!!!!!!!!!!!(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(B $B!Z9-9pEj9F?o;~Jg=8Cf(B !!$B![(B $B9-9p!!#52s7G:\!\%l%s%?%k%9%Z!<%99-9p#3#0F|7G:\$G#3#0#0#01_(B $B9-9p!!#72s7G:\!\%l%s%?%k%9%Z!<%99-9p#4#5F|7G:\$G#4#0#0#01_(B $B9-9p#1#02s7G:\!\%l%s%?%k%9%Z!<%99-9p#6#0F|7G:\$G#5#0#0#01_(B $B!!!!!!!!(B $B!}!!K\F|$bEj9F!*$"$j$,$H$&$4$6$$$^$7$?"v!}(B <<$B%a%k%^%,H/9TpJspJs$K4X$7$FH/9T5$/$@$5$$!#7G:\5-;v$K4X$9(B $B$k$*Ld$$9g$o$;$OD>@\Ej9Fl9g$O(B $B!!8E20(B $BF^$j$N$A;~!9@2$l(B $B@2$l(B $B?73c(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l(B $B6bBt(B $BF^$j(B $B@2$l(B $BBg:e(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l(B $B2,;3(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l(B $B9-Eg(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l(B $B9b>>(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l;~!9F^$j(B $BJ!2,(B $B@2$l(B $B@2$l$N$A;~!9F^$j(B $B; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9d4ad25e_8c17_11d8_9dd3_00304828b574_31900; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B44467580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E227580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ccef224_8c17_11d8_98e9_00304828b574_31894; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FD7344C34 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9bd5a214_8c17_11d8_9afd_00304828b574_31888; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:23:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEC6219F78; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E71A19F49; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6474D19F57; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1862419F49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0a1dec66053622bd56a075efd8c46b3b@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fcjmcxhcjxprbdyynfagfmjxvk" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:22:51 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fcjmcxhcjxprbdyynfagfmjxvk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think it's also important that the unexpected use be one that applies the program in its proper function, just in a way not anticipated by the original design. indeed, that seems to be the whole point! it's not just using a screwdriver to pry open a tin! for instance, the traditional example of the pipeline for spelling checking application applies several commands in turn in a way that is perfectly reasonable, and understandable, but the composition to do spelling checking was not anticipated by those who wrote the commands. in that pipeline in Software Tools, concat concatenates files, translit does its normal transliteration, sort sorts, unique eliminates duplicates, and `common' compares lines from two files as usual, but in this case one file is a dictionary. --upas-fcjmcxhcjxprbdyynfagfmjxvk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 12 01:07:34 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 31C3B19F59; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14BB519F44; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:07:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF02F19F4B; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 959E719C2F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <329B4CD3.4318298D@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:06:06 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I think he's latching onto a comment, probably in Software Tools, that one measure of a good tool is that people find uses for it other than those anticipated by its author(s). But, yes, it first has to be a sharp tool that does one thing well. --upas-fcjmcxhcjxprbdyynfagfmjxvk-- From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 12 22:32:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 10:25:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ad842f0_8c20_11d8_8b50_00304828b574_14066; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6427344C59 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4aa7da2a_8c20_11d8_880b_00304828b574_14063; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8D4D87580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CD27580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a6ab492_8c20_11d8_8298_00304828b574_14059; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B108344C5A for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49c1b522_8c20_11d8_96a3_00304828b574_14044; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:25:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 996F519F6B; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F29E919F1D; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8339019F49; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4DBC119F25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so3417cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.62 with SMTP id v62mr7485cwb; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <32CF6C32.190E0FF4@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sources up and authenticating? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <527486345b132273ec6ae42f8206dd26@collyer.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:24:58 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I just tried from a couple machines with no problems. Russ From geoff@collyer.net Mon Apr 12 22:32:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 10:41:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87634d44_8c22_11d8_9e12_00304828b574_16649; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC36344E3C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87337d76_8c22_11d8_9f18_00304828b574_16646; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 202527580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8CC7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86f549f2_8c22_11d8_8d7f_00304828b574_16643; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691EC344E3C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85feb402_8c22_11d8_90d4_00304828b574_16640; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2645819F75; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 13D0019F44; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:41:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A57719F49; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.ca [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9099119D8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <794d5b9730757b269a441fa650064153@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sources up and authenticating? From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <32CF6C32.190E0FF4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:40:01 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Andrey reports success too. I must have buggered something up. From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Mon Apr 12 22:32:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 10:55:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70a8eba2_8c24_11d8_95d1_00304828b574_19288; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23933442FD for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6fb9c20c_8c24_11d8_8649_00304828b574_19278; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D197F758108; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8FA7580FB for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6e35a2f2_8c24_11d8_90f2_00304828b574_19257; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5B73443C2 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 567c8892_8c24_11d8_9461_00304828b574_18905; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:54:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F60F19F77; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EAECE19F75; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9D6C19F25; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1528219B35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <200404100741.i3A7fQHa081455@adat.davidashen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:54:01 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > thanks a lot for the explanation. I think I understood it. You should read Rob's comment with deepest attention what he is really saying. His word is always terse enough for us. =E2=98=BA You must be careful this philosophy is not always been kept=20 in the present Plan 9 distribution. I don't know the reason, however, I guess everything has done in the restriction of time and man powers... If you are a kind of programmer who wants to invent something and has skills for it, you will=20 find many interesting targets in the present Plan 9 dsitribution. I'm aware of it, however, unfortunately, I have no such good skill, sigh... This must be a target for young skilled programmer, I think. Kenji From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:32:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:14:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 21a9949a_8c27_11d8_9098_00304828b574_24629; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CF10344D57 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 217747b0_8c27_11d8_984b_00304828b574_24626; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E7FEA7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4577580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 213a1930_8c27_11d8_8d74_00304828b574_24623; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6353344D57 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 209156b0_8c27_11d8_9642_00304828b574_24618; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7FC7B19F7A; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 52A1319F24; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81E6B19C43; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E89319F24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2DKik032540 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:13:20 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2DKdo021152 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:13:20 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2DKwO007809 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:13:20 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:13:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote: > does the chording work? i'm impressed. yes, it works fine. ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:32:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:15:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40ca1bb0_8c27_11d8_9751_00304828b574_24787; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F411344E61 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40954aac_8c27_11d8_9ae4_00304828b574_24784; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2DF637580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70C47580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 405b90be_8c27_11d8_9b73_00304828b574_24781; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9F9344E61 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fb29306_8c27_11d8_9a5a_00304828b574_24778; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBF5619F82; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8721F19F6B; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:15:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F34619F70; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DBD519F24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2Eiik032598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:44 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2Eis0008772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:44 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2EiwO007847 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:44 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 In-Reply-To: <3BC6DE74.67966B77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Russ Cox wrote: > are you sure? plan 9 is typically pretty > easy to port to a new architecture. oh, all right, lack of existence does not prove you can't run plan 9 under emacs. ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:15:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4b094632_8c27_11d8_95f1_00304828b574_24858; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC61344E55 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ad31cb0_8c27_11d8_8192_00304828b574_24855; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 592807580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1170C7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a9aa24a_8c27_11d8_8b80_00304828b574_24852; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296F7344E62 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49f2665c_8c27_11d8_9e82_00304828b574_24846; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A61D19F7F; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CA1B19F91; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:15:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 934A719F24; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E20F19C43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2E1ik032574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:01 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2E0s0008704 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:01 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2E0wO007829 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:00 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] inferno macos x In-Reply-To: <3BC90EF1.504737CF@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:14:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Russ Cox wrote: > do you use chords? i find chording with simulated mouse buttons > almost impossible to master. it's actually easier for me to do this than some of the rio chording. not that I'm fast, it's just that I can use it. ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:17:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8920a21c_8c27_11d8_80d0_00304828b574_25194; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE91344E64 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88eef4ec_8c27_11d8_9d25_00304828b574_25191; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F6D77580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A887580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88afaa58_8c27_11d8_8929_00304828b574_25188; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F933344E64 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88073cc4_8c27_11d8_93e2_00304828b574_25185; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:17:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A183E19F7C; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E108219F77; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:17:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 925D019F70; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6103619F24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2GKik032678 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:16:20 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2GKs0008948 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:16:20 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3C2GKwO007887 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:16:20 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 In-Reply-To: <20040410181903.4666.qmail@mail.dirac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:16:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Re that person I mentioned who did a distributed computing environment in emacs in 1990. Best quote: "We don't do ODE or PDE in this environment, because we are the phone company, and we don't care". Great quote, although I am sure that from time to time the phone guys do an occasional ODE or PDE. ron From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:36:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36d593c0_8c2a_11d8_8fae_00304828b574_29298; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13027344E8E for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36a5723a_8c2a_11d8_993d_00304828b574_29295; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E9C0E7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6759E7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36418f68_8c2a_11d8_8a5d_00304828b574_29292; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D72344E8E for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 359d7770_8c2a_11d8_97ed_00304828b574_29289; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EE5C19F91; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 59AA419F79; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 059A519F82; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E473719F75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DD5BF57441 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:35:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <055501c42036$7c080640$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <997f919d90dd12f4cf577ea7ea3bbd5a@collyer.net> <35245206.10F8414F@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:33:03 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: dc is your friend. From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:39:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3b6a510_8c2a_11d8_8bc0_00304828b574_29867; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCDB344E9C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a38091fa_8c2a_11d8_8a96_00304828b574_29864; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9889F7580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7F47580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3463ece_8c2a_11d8_8067_00304828b574_29861; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DF3344E9C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a29c6b24_8c2a_11d8_8059_00304828b574_29857; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:39:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1AE619CA5; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A219F19C79; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:39:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE51419C43; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 763FB19F75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D497573B6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:38:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <056101c42036$df28c390$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0caab737d10a64d1875c24ac3b56c7be@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:35:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Unexpected by whom? (I'm not a fan of Eric Raymond.) neither am i. as james brown said:: talkin' loud 'n sayin' nothin' From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:43:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2f08aec4_8c2b_11d8_8db5_00304828b574_30638; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CD7344EAA for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ed7c3c2_8c2b_11d8_8c8b_00304828b574_30635; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5D4607580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010D27580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e88c2d6_8c2b_11d8_98d7_00304828b574_30632; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF94344EAA for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2de0650a_8c2b_11d8_8e4f_00304828b574_30629; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB08119EAD; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EEC6719C2C; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 56F5B19CA5; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F73019B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C990257441 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:42:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <058001c42037$7c146ce0$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0caab737d10a64d1875c24ac3b56c7be@collyer.net> <329B4CD3.4318298D@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:40:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > On the other hand, awk is a programming language, > bc a calculator, and adb a debugger, all of which I'd > expect to be able to do radix conversions in. i've never used 'bc', but awk and adb are brilliant pieces of work. anyone ever tracked the 11/780 kernel stack from the LA-120 crash dump? From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:45:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 723d459c_8c2b_11d8_8ae5_00304828b574_31327; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31095344CA8 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71fd1a30_8c2b_11d8_8500_00304828b574_31324; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0E1887580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA4C7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71c4a010_8c2b_11d8_8eea_00304828b574_31321; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36E3344CA8 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 711d0094_8c2b_11d8_8bfa_00304828b574_31318; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 309BA19FAC; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9081E19C2C; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:45:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1EA5F199BC; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCD7619B6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 94A7857321 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:44:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <058701c42037$c1029ac0$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:42:09 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >...But, yes, it first has to be a sharp tool that does one thing well. je suis completement d'accord. From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:46:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94c16ca6_8c2b_11d8_92de_00304828b574_31456; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122D7344E2E for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9486079c_8c2b_11d8_9b6e_00304828b574_31453; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F1F787580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E047580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 944afe72_8c2b_11d8_892e_00304828b574_31450; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBDC344E2E for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93a2be7e_8c2b_11d8_9fcd_00304828b574_31447; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83F7219EAD; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A41F419E95; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2B4F19E95; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7997199BC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.211.25]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 728BC572D5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:45:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <058d01c42037$e2d95300$19d37d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <527486345b132273ec6ae42f8206dd26@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] sources up and authenticating? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:43:07 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: sources is up, i've done it from sdgm.net From countryjoe@myrealbox.com Mon Apr 12 22:33:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 11:58:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4545be96_8c2d_11d8_951d_00304828b574_1001; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AD5344EAF for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 450fa4e6_8c2d_11d8_898b_00304828b574_996; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A46827580FB; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0AF7580FA for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44d66758_8c2d_11d8_87c3_00304828b574_992; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74543344EAF for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 442e6440_8c2d_11d8_9b83_00304828b574_986; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:58:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 761E319FA3; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9E5A619FB7; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C77CA19FAF; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-send.myrealbox.com (smtp-send.myrealbox.com [192.108.102.143]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C9BD19F82 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrealbox.com countryjoe [216.128.233.46] by smtp-send.myrealbox.com with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.84 $ on Novell NetWare via secured & encrypted transport (TLS); Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:57:06 -0600 Message-ID: <407A057D.4010401@myrealbox.com> From: countryjoe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; OpenBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030908 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap References: <058701c42037$c1029ac0$19d37d50@SOMA> In-Reply-To: <058701c42037$c1029ac0$19d37d50@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:57:01 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Compl=E8tement....parceque sans l'accent ce n'est pas good. Just teasing...! Philippe boyd, rounin wrote: >>...But, yes, it first has to be a sharp tool that does one thing well. >=20 >=20 > je suis completement d'accord. >=20 >=20 >=20 From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 12 22:33:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 13:06:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c837d75e_8c36_11d8_9375_00304828b574_16017; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E510A344BEE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8057cdc_8c36_11d8_85e9_00304828b574_16014; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C78647580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A347580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c7b3552e_8c36_11d8_954d_00304828b574_16009; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79655344BEE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c70aac12_8c36_11d8_873e_00304828b574_16002; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:06:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DB2419FA1; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A41519D24; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:06:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2237C19D4C; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFA2419C29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.224.46]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 861395743B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:05:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c42043$07d6ecc0$2ee07d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <058701c42037$c1029ac0$19d37d50@SOMA> <407A057D.4010401@myrealbox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:02:53 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ouais, la langue =E9crite est un cachemare :( From davel@anvil.com Tue Apr 13 06:33:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 23:14:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd4b3b42_8c8b_11d8_9406_00304828b574_23852; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C57DF3444D1 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd154d8e_8c8b_11d8_8ba0_00304828b574_23849; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B14F97580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609CF7580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bcd645e4_8c8b_11d8_9842_00304828b574_23846; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F2183444D1 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc2841a6_8c8b_11d8_8ecf_00304828b574_23843; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 843DF19FB3; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2406C19DCA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EFA519D84; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C49A19DCE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 9216F3DC; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:12:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA3C3DA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00914 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:13:07 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] emacs vs plan9 From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081779202.16616.74.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:13:22 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 2004-04-12 at 03:16, ron minnich wrote: > emacs in 1990. Best quote: > "We don't do ODE or PDE in this environment, because we are the phone > company, and we don't care". That has a nice ring to it : I vote we adopt it as the standard riposte to all plan9whines (you know: emacs/cutesy gui/shared libs...): "We don't do shared libraries, because we're the phone company and we don't care". :-) Dave. From rminnich@lanl.gov Tue Apr 13 06:33:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 12 23:47:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 554f4a38_8c90_11d8_96b4_00304828b574_30355; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DFF34484B for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 550bdabe_8c90_11d8_9223_00304828b574_30352; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 984727580FA; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0277580F9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54c9e050_8c90_11d8_8445_00304828b574_30349; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565F234484D for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54188bd4_8c90_11d8_9508_00304828b574_30345; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:47:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB07019E0B; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B3A919C94; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37C2119D42; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCF9219C68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CEk0ik000638 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:46:00 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CEk0do017274 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:46:00 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CEk0wO027416 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:46:00 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] macosx + inferno + acme + one-button-mouse + chording Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:45:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: oops. Last night I realized too late what Rob and Russ meant. Reason is that I never use the chording in acme. So, yeah, don't know if chording can or ever could work with one-button-mouse. ron From aedil@alchar.org Tue Apr 13 06:33:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 00:46:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 941e6ade_8c98_11d8_99fd_00304828b574_9659; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37063344889 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93ee5c0e_8c98_11d8_9c2b_00304828b574_9656; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 19DC27580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53777580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93aeb02c_8c98_11d8_848b_00304828b574_9653; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A01344889 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9307b1e6_8c98_11d8_9508_00304828b574_9650; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1911919FD7; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 415FC19F12; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F73B19F12; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alchar.org (alchar.org [66.92.236.138]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0567519BC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30537 invoked by uid 100); 12 Apr 2004 15:45:07 -0000 From: Kris Van Hees To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: <20040412114507.A19633@alchar.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Subject: [9fans] Update accounts expire? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Do update accounts actually ever expire, or are they forever? I have a few (as results from times where pull just wouldn't authenticate, even when authchk would indicate that connectivity to the labs' systems worked fine), and none of them work (excluding the ones for which I cannot remember the password). I also created a new one about an hour ago, and it won't work either :) That one I can guarantee I know the password for, with 100% certainty. So something is broken beyond the connectivity aspect, or computers just hate me today :) Kris From vdharani@infernopark.com Tue Apr 13 06:33:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 00:57:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 23d7eb2c_8c9a_11d8_86b7_00304828b574_11289; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC866344899 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2393fd54_8c9a_11d8_82ff_00304828b574_11286; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 92ABB7580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B89C7580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 23551ca6_8c9a_11d8_8eab_00304828b574_11283; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457BB344899 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 229a28b0_8c9a_11d8_96bb_00304828b574_11280; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 50F1719FF5; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C00B19FD7; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:57:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9CD119FCF; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (unknown [216.127.72.23]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E04C19F12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3CIBgZ18423 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:11:42 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6594.192.11.226.116.1081793502.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] macosx + inferno + acme + one-button-mouse + chording From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:11:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > oops. Last night I realized too late what Rob and Russ meant. Reason is > that I never use the chording in acme. how do you manage without using chording? one good thing about acme is, i dont even realize how i use acme to do something. i seem to do it automatically. it would be difficult to use ac= me when some key features are missing because i will begin to be cautious wh= en i use acme even in other platforms. i like the seemless interface of acme= . From rminnich@lanl.gov Tue Apr 13 06:33:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 01:05:07 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2aacbc7e_8c9b_11d8_9e47_00304828b574_13159; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222F3344187 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a167d22_8c9b_11d8_88eb_00304828b574_13149; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C83757580FB; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871267580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 29bd0044_8c9b_11d8_9f8d_00304828b574_13144; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:05:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A3C344721 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:04:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15f85be4_8c9b_11d8_9754_00304828b574_12743; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0CE6619CB1; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 244E519BC1; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:04:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6C8619BC1; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D61319AB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CG3Kik004607 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:03:20 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CG3Js0017960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:03:20 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3CG3JwO031041 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:03:19 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] macosx + inferno + acme + one-button-mouse + chording In-Reply-To: <6594.192.11.226.116.1081793502.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:03:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: > how do you manage without using chording? I switch around boxes too much, and the mice and other buttons change too much, so it's never gotten to be automatic with me. ron From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 13 12:00:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 11:27:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 191ad944_8cf2_11d8_8777_00304828b574_12307; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F253443DD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 18e453ba_8cf2_11d8_9a67_00304828b574_12301; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 20C08758104; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBBB7580FA for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1665919e_8cf2_11d8_9015_00304828b574_12264; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:27:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32AF344CBF for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:23:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9191361c_8cf1_11d8_8c3c_00304828b574_10500; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:23:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA28719CEB; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CCC119AF2; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5496419CEB; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2CE0219B1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5a5c5460f0cf4805f733a6c238609797@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] patch(1) and adding new files Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:21:56 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i'm in a pickle with this one: how do we add new files via the patch(1) system? the man pages only discuss changing already existing ones... thanks, andrey From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 13 12:00:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 11:31:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3772638_8cf2_11d8_83b3_00304828b574_14190; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9CA3441C2 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3407f98_8cf2_11d8_91fe_00304828b574_14187; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F0F87580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393F77580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a30383b8_8cf2_11d8_8fff_00304828b574_14184; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54362344234 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a25d574a_8cf2_11d8_9bd8_00304828b574_14181; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C8C5C19FE0; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0AEC819AF2; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 850CF19C99; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 579A119AF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.224.46]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EDCB457502 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:28:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <035501c420fe$9faaf620$2ee07d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5a5c5460f0cf4805f733a6c238609797@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] patch(1) and adding new files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:25:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: /dev/null? From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 13 20:53:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 12:38:11 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fcc587e4_8cfb_11d8_9c61_00304828b574_27695; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:38:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8868A344CB9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:38:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fbbcee0a_8cfb_11d8_9b67_00304828b574_27670; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:38:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 09028758121; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:38:06 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938B775812A for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:37:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2d2de1c_8cfb_11d8_93f2_00304828b574_27297; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:37:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13B7345071 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:24:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f624786_8cfa_11d8_9655_00304828b574_24117; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:24:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 469C619C90; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4D16419C61; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B34319C59; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70C8319C44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3D3NX7i003552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:23:33 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i3D3NXME003548 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:23:33 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] patch(1) and adding new files In-Reply-To: <5a5c5460f0cf4805f733a6c238609797@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:23:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nevermind that, i browsed through /bin/patch/create -- it accepted the ne= w files fine, with just a warning... i've added support for reading/writing keysyms to vnc[vs], which is what = the RBF defines as the encodings the VNC protocol uses for special characters= . the net effect is that you can type runes > 0xff in vncv and they'll show= up in X correctly (assuming you're using a font there that has them), and vn= cs will accept such characters.=20 as a bonus, ctrl+pgup/pgdn work now in xterm... andrey ps: here's the description from the patch: This adds support in vncv and vncs for sending/receiving utf-8 text. The problem comes from the RFB protocol which requires special keys to pass through as their keysym encodings (). vncv and vncs do not convert between utf-8 and keysym, therefore they're unusable when one wants to write in foreign characters that don't match keysyms. the two header files (ksym2utf.h and utf2ksym.h) declare arrays with the same names mapping keysym definitions to unicode runes. kbdv.c and kbds.c get the corresponding character when the rune read from /dev/cons or from a client. inadvertantly this fixes a problem with vncv which would cause xterminals not to scroll on ctrl+[PgUp|PgDn]. also changed is the mkfile to add dependency between kbdv.c =E2=86=92 utf= 2ksym.h and kbds.c =E2=86=92 ksym2utf.h each array adds a total of ~32K to the run-time memory image of vncv and vncs. From vkaxnbj@lightspeedcredit.com Tue Apr 13 20:53:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 12:40:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4b4951ca_8cfc_11d8_85f4_00304828b574_28605; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B02344CB7 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4b1370be_8cfc_11d8_8049_00304828b574_28602; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 85D997580FD; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FBA7580FC for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ad0a644_8cfc_11d8_884d_00304828b574_28599; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A8C344CB7 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a24a312_8cfc_11d8_8a6c_00304828b574_28596; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE68019DE2; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AE4C19DB3; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9963619DB3; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (neuromancer.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 866AE19BBC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from daphmb01bbe-ac03-52-25.dial.mts.net (daphmb01bbe-ac03-52-25.dial.mts.net [205.200.52.25]) by neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with SMTP id F29B21B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Caleb Lampi" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: Kieaals nzmjy Epfppo-exth: smdb xhgpovep avdx Ctmae-bdpcs: uxuiv edill huzu Pwqlzup-zyesd: joglgb zmkukwq kahkich Rsyrkgav-lhea: asgi mjlzotdc bzkdzddi Vceugr-kjwzxdlt: bdfbtn crcp loceutzv Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [9fans] Invitation Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:30:03 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=REMOVE_PAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: One of your friends set you up on a Blind Date with another friend. Visit the site below to accept the invitation: http://bu.lookingforahotone.com/confirm/?oc=3D54691010 if you do not wish to be invited again: http://hlgjxdpqxb.lookingforahotone.com/remove/?oc=3D54690264 From apm@cifrid.net Tue Apr 13 20:53:04 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 16:06:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1cc9eaea_8d19_11d8_81dd_00304828b574_14545; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103C2344D1C for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c94c25c_8d19_11d8_9f17_00304828b574_14542; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F14807580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA07E7580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c5c4f62_8d19_11d8_9ceb_00304828b574_14539; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B66344D1C for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bb4ac6c_8d19_11d8_8e6b_00304828b574_14533; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:06:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 76A5B19DB6; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 747FA19BD5; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D0DF219F67; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADD1519BC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:50331) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDI2o-0008vC-DI for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:09:18 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86isg4l5mr.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:05:32 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm trying to setup a mirror as described in "Setting up Fossil" (section: USING A MIRROR WITH FOSSIL). Because there is no fs(3) compiled into the kernel by default I added it ('fs') to a 'dev' section and built a new kernel. I get panic when booting up using this kernel. Any help appreciated, Artur -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From geoff@collyer.net Tue Apr 13 20:53:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 17:45:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9f53b6c_8d26_11d8_8223_00304828b574_4273; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:45:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9686344D68 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9128eac_8d26_11d8_9f10_00304828b574_4181; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:45:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E5A187580FB; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9DC758106 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7b00efe_8d26_11d8_9b0f_00304828b574_4168; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EB5344D68 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9b49ce8_8d26_11d8_825d_00304828b574_3980; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5297E19FBE; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AF5019CD6; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EFBB19CD6; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (dnspac16.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D0FD19CB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <86isg4l5mr.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:43:37 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: What's the panic message? From apm@cifrid.net Tue Apr 13 20:53:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 19:40:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7cc3e00_8d36_11d8_848e_00304828b574_1495; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F99E344666 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6b9be48_8d36_11d8_8088_00304828b574_1473; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AD7B27580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2167580FB for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6201dba_8d36_11d8_9c5c_00304828b574_1465; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E264344660 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3b3626c_8d36_11d8_8dd3_00304828b574_1428; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CF051A003; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B46619FF7; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:40:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E4641A058; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (neuromancer.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57DD31A01D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by neuromancer.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server (Backup MX)) with ESMTP id 3C0451DEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:49357) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDKym-000HFU-Nq for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:17:21 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: (Geoff Collyer's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:44:37 GMT") References: <86isg4l5mr.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <861xmsnq2k.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:13:23 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: geoff@collyer.net (Geoff Collyer) writes: > What's the panic message? http://apm.cifrid.net/p9p/ -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From matt@proweb.co.uk Tue Apr 13 23:10:13 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 20:58:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e35a5a32_8d41_11d8_8fcc_00304828b574_19197; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC973445D1 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e316b4b2_8d41_11d8_9ad8_00304828b574_19192; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CAE067580F9; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC290758108 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e12c64bc_8d41_11d8_9728_00304828b574_19159; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:58:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2203445D1 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:53:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2bb0be8a_8d41_11d8_9181_00304828b574_16392; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:53:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACB4D19FC8; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AE8A19FD8; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:53:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4647919FC8; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6612819F8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16081d72eed62da975a0c83e49715c09@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:54:57 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/13/iomega_rev/ Would these make a suitable venti device ? m From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 13 23:10:14 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 22:54:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b7800b2_8d52_11d8_9ee3_00304828b574_12356; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310EF344DC7 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b47ffde_8d52_11d8_98b5_00304828b574_12353; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 164BA7580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27C57580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b0a7d4e_8d52_11d8_8b42_00304828b574_12350; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF57344DC9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a626528_8d52_11d8_9314_00304828b574_12340; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BD971A036; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C95681A016; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:54:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBBE01A00A; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B094919FEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so6265cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.7 with SMTP id v7mr17164cwb; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0ABB7FC0.6A6FB28F@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <16081d72eed62da975a0c83e49715c09@juice.thebigchoice.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:53:57 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/13/iomega_rev/ > > Would these make a suitable venti device ? It would be a nice backup device for a Venti server, except that it's more expensive than just buying extra disks and setting up a second server. Russ From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 13 23:10:14 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 23:01:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 103741d0_8d53_11d8_8897_00304828b574_13939; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5888344DD0 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1005d05a_8d53_11d8_8768_00304828b574_13936; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A92927580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B6F7580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fc79e8e_8d53_11d8_90a1_00304828b574_13933; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B093344DD0 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f202208_8d53_11d8_8019_00304828b574_13930; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 141931A049; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB6621A03C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 159641A02B; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.251]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EC18F19FEC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so7440cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.66 with SMTP id x66mr17185cwb; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0AB4A550.76D6B3A5@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <86isg4l5mr.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> <861xmsnq2k.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:00:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The panic message is probably cclone: hex-number. I just put a new devfs.c on sources. There was a bad interaction between the compiler and the error stack. Russ From gam9478@njit.edu Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 23:26:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d7a24c0_8d56_11d8_8276_00304828b574_18416; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646E73452BD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d424b9a_8d56_11d8_9533_00304828b574_18413; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 46EE77580FA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079FF7580F9 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d0879f6_8d56_11d8_9213_00304828b574_18410; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD863452BD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c550ab0_8d56_11d8_950f_00304828b574_18407; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E2DC1A0A2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 432FD1A06A; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42EE41A058; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-gw5.njit.edu (mail.njit.edu [128.235.251.173]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 106741A01C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.njit.edu (webmail.njit.edu [128.235.251.121]) by mail-gw5.njit.edu (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id i3DEPqD7009423 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from apache@localhost) by webmail.njit.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) id i3DEPrE11100 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:53 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) Message-ID: <1081866353.407bf8714bba9@webmail.njit.edu> From: gam9478@njit.edu References: <16081d72eed62da975a0c83e49715c09@juice.thebigchoice.com> <0ABB7FC0.6A6FB28F@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0ABB7FC0.6A6FB28F@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4 X-Originating-IP: 62.169.210.148 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting Russ Cox : > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/13/iomega_rev/ > >=20 > > Would these make a suitable venti device ? >=20 > It would be a nice backup device for a Venti server, > except that it's more expensive than just buying=20 > extra disks and setting up a second server. >=20 > Russ >=20 fast enough, slick (good looking products always get ++ from me), good= brand with solid guarrantees that they will be around for a while. It is expens= ive though. at $60/pop, it would cost me $60*30days=3D$1800 to have a rotatio= nal backup for a whole month.=20 i can buy a new motherboard, an Adaptec SATA RAID card with 8 SATA por= ts on it and install 5-6 250GB SATA hds for that price, though and have a backu= p of all my porn^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H erh, importand data. Seriously, the only thin= g that i need on this network at home is my /home/cvs root , /home/arch and my s= rc dir. all other data is over 2TB so, not easily backed up. It would be a better opportunity of the capacity was 90-120GB. Judging from the history of the= Zip drive so far, that might actually happen, so, i'll wait a bit.=20 Tell you what though. I would seriously consider using that drive to i= nstall an OS i wanna check out on. Make a multi-OS boot computer without the has= sle of having to create/format/move/resize/get backups of all partitions on a hd= , pay $60, get a new disk, install OS. PS. Hm, talking about Zip drives, anybody gave any thought putting a boot= able inferno/plan 9 image on a 750MB Zip disk? George Marselis -><- Ghost In My Shell From apm@cifrid.net Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 13 23:57:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5b9d3f2_8d5a_11d8_871c_00304828b574_26942; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741CD3447A7 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5851bb2_8d5a_11d8_9c71_00304828b574_26939; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5F6C37580F9; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163237580FA for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e54a978a_8d5a_11d8_9006_00304828b574_26936; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0A53447B1 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4a18c62_8d5a_11d8_8fb7_00304828b574_26928; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 703811A03C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B7A219DE2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:57:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7471119DDE; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F92019CEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:49832) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDPOr-000NdY-I5 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:00:33 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <0AB4A550.76D6B3A5@mail.gmail.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:01:33 GMT") References: <86isg4l5mr.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> <0AB4A550.76D6B3A5@mail.gmail.com> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86smf8lye7.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:56:32 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: russcox@gmail.com (Russ Cox) writes: > The panic message is probably cclone: hex-number. > I just put a new devfs.c on sources. There was a bad > interaction between the compiler and the error stack. Something's wrong... http://apm.cifrid.net/p9p/patched/ Maybe I'm missing something in the kernel configuration? -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 00:10:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b67ba7c6_8d5c_11d8_962b_00304828b574_30085; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3901D3447D3 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b64ac0ac_8d5c_11d8_930f_00304828b574_30082; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1B36D7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75167580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b60b48aa_8d5c_11d8_8d77_00304828b574_30079; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59283447D3 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b55ce7ec_8d5c_11d8_8aeb_00304828b574_30076; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02C301A06D; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1BB21A05C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EF9F19E9B; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DA1C19C16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f0c7449becb54d6b914b4450f775d57@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <86smf8lye7.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:09:12 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > russcox@gmail.com (Russ Cox) writes: > >> The panic message is probably cclone: hex-number. >> I just put a new devfs.c on sources. There was a bad >> interaction between the compiler and the error stack. > > Something's wrong... http://apm.cifrid.net/p9p/patched/ > > Maybe I'm missing something in the kernel configuration? do you have an appropriate devfs configuration? you need to create a one-block partition on your hard drive, call it fscfg and store in it the configuration, see below: plan9# cat /dev/sdC0/fscfg fsdev: mirror fossil /dev/sdC0/fossil /dev/sdD0/fossil mirror isect /dev/sdC0/isect /dev/sdD0/isect mirror arenas /dev/sdC0/arenas /dev/sdD0/arenas mirror nvram /dev/sdC0/nvram /dev/sdD0/nvram plan9# devfs will either look for an 'fsconfig=' environment variable (i.e. put it in plan9.ini) or use the default fsconfig=/dev/sdC0/fscfg andrey From apm@cifrid.net Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 00:33:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id effe81aa_8d5f_11d8_94d7_00304828b574_1561; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335E9344808 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id efcd7da8_8d5f_11d8_8647_00304828b574_1558; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 14C537580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AA77580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef8d6ca4_8d5f_11d8_8ac5_00304828b574_1554; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85D2344808 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eee4edd6_8d5f_11d8_9092_00304828b574_1551; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F9F11A088; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAAE319F1C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 617741A058; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51FCD19DE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:49930) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDPxn-000OTt-U7 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:36:40 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <0f0c7449becb54d6b914b4450f775d57@plan9.ucalgary.ca> (andrey mirtchovski's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:10:35 GMT") References: <86smf8lye7.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> <0f0c7449becb54d6b914b4450f775d57@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86oepvnbab.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (andrey mirtchovski) writes: > do you have an appropriate devfs configuration? I tried with and without it. Same result. I would like to boot plan 9 with fs(3) compiled into the kernel to perform steps described in "setting up fossil". -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 00:48:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07936c8e_8d62_11d8_9e63_00304828b574_3768; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA51344836 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07648374_8d62_11d8_8539_00304828b574_3765; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A0D587580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC9D7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07264942_8d62_11d8_8316_00304828b574_3762; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D21344836 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 067d649e_8d62_11d8_843d_00304828b574_3759; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 477061A0A8; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3536B1A06F; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3106B19E9B; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C0EC19DE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <86oepvnbab.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:46:41 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > I tried with and without it. Same result. I would like to boot plan 9 > with fs(3) compiled into the kernel to perform steps described in > "setting up fossil". > you don't need devfs for setting up fossil, but that's not the issue... do you have a serial cable? if you do, you can plug that in to try and grab more of the panic output (the part that scrolls off the screen is the most important, as usual)... andrey From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 00:48:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f54f1b8_8d62_11d8_9561_00304828b574_3786; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBA8344836 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ef05596_8d62_11d8_8dbb_00304828b574_3783; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5D5F57580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C217580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e86e692_8d62_11d8_8372_00304828b574_3780; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D819344836 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0d97bc98_8d62_11d8_8272_00304828b574_3777; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0F321A0B4; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39AFB1A0B2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:48:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34DC31A06F; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gamma08.escet.urjc.es (unknown [212.128.4.218]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 753E619E9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <23a7eee254996cbcb2d1c1d04463e467@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <86oepvnbab.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pavdclwwyqqeswtqimuhuayvis" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:46:59 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pavdclwwyqqeswtqimuhuayvis Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you boot without starting fs at boot time, can you setup it by hand once the system is up? --upas-pavdclwwyqqeswtqimuhuayvis Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Tue Apr 13 17:33:25 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F276C1A05C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C61EF19F1C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:33:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 617741A058; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51FCD19DE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:49930) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDPxn-000OTt-U7 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:36:40 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <0f0c7449becb54d6b914b4450f775d57@plan9.ucalgary.ca> (andrey mirtchovski's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:10:35 GMT") References: <86smf8lye7.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> <0f0c7449becb54d6b914b4450f775d57@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86oepvnbab.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (andrey mirtchovski) writes: > do you have an appropriate devfs configuration? I tried with and without it. Same result. I would like to boot plan 9 with fs(3) compiled into the kernel to perform steps described in "setting up fossil". -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // --upas-pavdclwwyqqeswtqimuhuayvis-- From a.verardo@tecmav.fastwebnet.it Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 01:04:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e565a5e_8d64_11d8_9e6a_00304828b574_8673; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B067344186 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e255f30_8d64_11d8_9ec0_00304828b574_8669; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CDDAD758108; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018CB7580FB for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3bfbc0aa_8d64_11d8_8320_00304828b574_8640; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D9344856 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:00:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b1b64cf8_8d63_11d8_81e4_00304828b574_6781; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:00:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F27819C73; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 381AF19C77; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD53219B75; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ms003msg.fastwebnet.it (ms003msg.fastwebnet.it [213.140.2.42]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0B4D19B42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tecmav.fastwebnet.it (5.255.198.122) by ms003msg.fastwebnet.it (6.7.019) (authenticated as a.verardo@tecmav.fastwebnet.it) id 40586384008406A7 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:59:34 +0200 Message-ID: <407C0F84.6090002@tecmav.fastwebnet.it> From: Adriano Verardo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <405863C6008D70AA@ms001msg.mail.fw> (added by postmaster@ms001msg.fastwebnet.it) In-Reply-To: <405863C6008D70AA@ms001msg.mail.fw> (added by postmaster@ms001msg.fastwebnet.it) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Re: hi Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:04:20 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: 9fans@cse.psu.edu wrote: >your name is wrong > > what ?? From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 14 20:59:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 01:18:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 357368bc_8d66_11d8_9db1_00304828b574_12204; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9ABF344874 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 353ec35a_8d66_11d8_8be7_00304828b574_12201; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 930117580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE577580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34f99ffa_8d66_11d8_9c8d_00304828b574_12198; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56029344874 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 345350dc_8d66_11d8_83dc_00304828b574_12195; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:18:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83ABD19FBE; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5F3219C6A; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D90C19DB0; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0BC3919C6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so7839cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.66 with SMTP id x66mr17914cwb; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0A366BA7.3FF2505E@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <23a7eee254996cbcb2d1c1d04463e467@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:16:57 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Before you start hooking up serial cables, download the new devfs.c from sources. I'm sure it fixes your problem. I ran into this a month ago. The error stack when you get to this is big enough that it scrolls way off the screen. Russ From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 14 20:59:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 02:03:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8558db7c_8d6c_11d8_8ed7_00304828b574_20049; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59CB344F32 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84ad7e26_8d6c_11d8_9d63_00304828b574_20034; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 24111758106; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E48758101 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83f787e2_8d6c_11d8_9fdb_00304828b574_20021; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA3E344F32 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 824630ce_8d6c_11d8_9c68_00304828b574_19987; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 38B5E19C90; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 389C519C8D; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7282419C90; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89B2619C6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 71B233B2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:01:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986E33AD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:01:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA12598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:01:57 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081875664.3488.479.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] FYI: 9conlon Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:01:05 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: We have internet access at Union Chapel, and I'm about to slap down the deposit. Cheers, Dave. From saw@online.de Wed Apr 14 20:59:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 04:31:10 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1dcd2d68_8d81_11d8_8201_00304828b574_20216; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F353449B6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d959290_8d81_11d8_9b56_00304828b574_20213; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 47C8D7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017C07580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d57faca_8d81_11d8_8bd0_00304828b574_20209; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195653449B6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1cafc8aa_8d81_11d8_9d2e_00304828b574_20206; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:31:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E31FD19FE7; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB8D519FEC; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:30:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45C2519FC8; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.netcologne.de (smtp1.netcologne.de [194.8.194.112]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9BAE119FC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from online.de (xdsl-195-14-222-181.netcologne.de [195.14.222.181]) by smtp1.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5886638BBB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:29:58 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <407C3FBE.901@online.de> From: Sascha Wildner Organization: Yoyodyne Natural Born Configurators User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] newsgroup? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:30:06 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, none of my posts to comp.os.plan9 seem to make it through (no problems with other newsgroups). Does anyone know why? Sascha -- http://yoyodyne.ath.cx From saw@online.de Wed Apr 14 20:59:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 04:55:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d94eb92_8d84_11d8_8800_00304828b574_24107; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C573452E2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d5ce27e_8d84_11d8_9ef7_00304828b574_24104; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 49D907580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0388E7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d1cf7c2_8d84_11d8_991d_00304828b574_24098; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114773452E2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c6e6202_8d84_11d8_8c85_00304828b574_24086; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45A131A069; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 05CB61A049; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:55:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 34C961A028; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.netcologne.de (smtp2.netcologne.de [194.8.194.218]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08F441A036 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from online.de (xdsl-195-14-222-181.netcologne.de [195.14.222.181]) by smtp2.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE36F3A0F1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:54:25 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <407C4579.6070601@online.de> From: Sascha Wildner Organization: Yoyodyne Natural Born Configurators User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:54:33 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, so which mice do you use? Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. Regards, Sascha -- http://yoyodyne.ath.cx From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 14 20:59:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 05:04:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cbb8e97c_8d85_11d8_8130_00304828b574_25516; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3833F3452F6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb87d792_8d85_11d8_8f24_00304828b574_25513; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1C49B7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82927580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb492efc_8d85_11d8_89ba_00304828b574_25507; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A023452F6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id caa15df8_8d85_11d8_8467_00304828b574_25501; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A3431A049; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C3CE1A025; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 171981A049; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (d137-186-244-103.abhsia.telus.net [137.186.244.103]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 858CF1A03C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <407C4579.6070601@online.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:03:22 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DSBL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > so which mice do you use? Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 > button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. IBM has one for $25USD: http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=-840&langId=-1&partNumber=31P7405&storeId=1 that's what i use on my desktop. andrey From apm@cifrid.net Wed Apr 14 20:59:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 05:13:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 19907948_8d87_11d8_872b_00304828b574_29305; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3912C34417C for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 19519a34_8d87_11d8_93a2_00304828b574_29302; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C34FC7580F9; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69EF1758104 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 170ee2c2_8d87_11d8_9f26_00304828b574_29270; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3183441BC for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:10:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 98847750_8d86_11d8_99a0_00304828b574_27614; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:10:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 559F319CAA; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 282DC19BE2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:10:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0310819BE9; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C772419BCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:50447) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDUHc-0004jN-QS for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:13:25 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <0A366BA7.3FF2505E@mail.gmail.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:19:06 GMT") References: <23a7eee254996cbcb2d1c1d04463e467@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <0A366BA7.3FF2505E@mail.gmail.com> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86k70jmyh2.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:09:29 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: russcox@gmail.com (Russ Cox) writes: > Before you start hooking up serial cables, download the > new devfs.c from sources. I tried. You can see the result at http://apm.cifrid.net/p9p/patched/. -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 14 20:59:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 06:26:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40142b6e_8d91_11d8_80b2_00304828b574_10524; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE05F34531A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fe348e6_8d91_11d8_977f_00304828b574_10521; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C10CF7580FB; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814447580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fa95956_8d91_11d8_8955_00304828b574_10517; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC4A34531A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f021d44_8d91_11d8_98ec_00304828b574_10512; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:26:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD32319D97; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7168519C99; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B729119C26; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6498D19C99 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <16081d72eed62da975a0c83e49715c09@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:25:35 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: My experience with iomega devices has not been good. The Jaz drives I tried tended to go crazy and bugger up the scsi bus. They also tended to crash without provocation after a short time. I'd be reluctant to trust them. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 14 20:59:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 06:37:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc2ae048_8d92_11d8_95bf_00304828b574_14466; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7677B3441F6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bbe998c2_8d92_11d8_8fff_00304828b574_14456; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 89261758103; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F49A7580FA for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b996be42_8d92_11d8_81fd_00304828b574_14415; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:37:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008FE344213 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3a29bd94_8d92_11d8_867f_00304828b574_12595; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:33:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 71E931A08D; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 66B491A080; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 793FE19AD9; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6418B19B20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.203.81]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 05EE55729A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:31:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00d901c4219e$3a1f3690$51cb7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:28:12 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > My experience with iomega devices has not been good. The Jaz drives I > tried tended to go crazy and bugger up the scsi bus. They also tended > to crash without provocation after a short time. I'd be reluctant to > trust them. isn't the deal is that these things are so cheap because they are basically flakey? From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 14 20:59:55 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 07:26:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0b77158_8d99_11d8_9ade_00304828b574_24409; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045AD344A76 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a08709f0_8d99_11d8_88ba_00304828b574_24406; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D7E217580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF477580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a045c2ce_8d99_11d8_8824_00304828b574_24403; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8344344A75 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f9db8ae_8d99_11d8_8296_00304828b574_24399; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:26:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DE1119BE2; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A7BC419BAC; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD7AA19BAC; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.251]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 46D5719BB8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so9559cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.66 with SMTP id x66mr22195cwb; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0B673A7E.77E58023@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <23a7eee254996cbcb2d1c1d04463e467@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <0A366BA7.3FF2505E@mail.gmail.com> <86k70jmyh2.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:25:23 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I tried. You can see the result at http://apm.cifrid.net/p9p/patched/. looks like it fixed your problem. if you echo hwaccel off >/dev/vgactl your "idle stat" messages will go away. we apparently don't know how to talk to your card the right way to do accelerated ops. you want to put the echo into termrc or cpurc right after the line that runs aux/vga. russ From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 14 20:59:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 15:15:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2634dc12_8ddb_11d8_987b_00304828b574_7173; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB543444C6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26038c70_8ddb_11d8_91b0_00304828b574_7170; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 278C67580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BC77580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25c94074_8ddb_11d8_9c65_00304828b574_7167; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6753444C6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2520af72_8ddb_11d8_885e_00304828b574_7164; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DECF1A073; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BB521A065; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:15:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3617C19CD1; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DE15519C2A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r65so24782cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.117.31 with SMTP id p31mr14078cwc; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <94FEF496.59E911E5@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:14:33 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i have a few of andrey's mice. they're catching on at work. -rob From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 14 20:59:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 15:22:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1cd930cc_8ddc_11d8_8b92_00304828b574_8273; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E857344CA4 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1ca8d256_8ddc_11d8_978b_00304828b574_8270; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3E5F7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C48F7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c68bee6_8ddc_11d8_8283_00304828b574_8267; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A749C344CA4 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bb89eda_8ddc_11d8_8f1c_00304828b574_8264; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57EF71A087; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 325621A084; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:22:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11C231A073; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BFCA119CB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3E6LfD18246 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:21:49 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <94FEF496.59E911E5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:21:39 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i have a few of andrey's mice. they're catching on at work. I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. Or is it just me? I keep having to reposition the mouse on the pad because ACME moves the cursor for my very convenience. I'm assuming that a trackball would be better suited in such case. But trackballs, specially three-button ones, seem expensive. ++L From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 14 20:59:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 15:31:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5687772e_8ddd_11d8_84db_00304828b574_9995; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FA6344E2D for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 565291f8_8ddd_11d8_8b8a_00304828b574_9992; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 310D27580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F9C7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56134642_8ddd_11d8_8230_00304828b574_9989; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DB9344E2D for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 556bcaf2_8ddd_11d8_81a3_00304828b574_9985; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 419DB1A096; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F6A31A08A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A2AC1A08B; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6A801A08A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <407C4579.6070601@online.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:29:20 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > so which mice do you use? Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 > button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. You can also use the two button + wheel-button logitech ones. We use them and now can't leave without. In particular, the one that comes with the BT keyboard/mouse set is really ergonomic. From apm@cifrid.net Wed Apr 14 21:00:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 18:14:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 243f6b7a_8df4_11d8_960d_00304828b574_16717; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E864344D5A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 240dbe18_8df4_11d8_974d_00304828b574_16714; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3F6B57580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98CF7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 23cc1620_8df4_11d8_9f67_00304828b574_16711; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D78A344D5B for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2323f378_8df4_11d8_8ec7_00304828b574_16703; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:14:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0F741A049; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B26A19BE9; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 977EE19BED; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.cifrid.net (altair.cifrid.net [195.136.117.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 16C6C19BB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menkar.cifrid.net ([217.172.244.10]:50584) by altair.cifrid.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BDgWa-000PTM-Vl for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:17:41 +0200 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <0B673A7E.77E58023@mail.gmail.com> (Russ Cox's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:26:44 GMT") References: <23a7eee254996cbcb2d1c1d04463e467@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <0B673A7E.77E58023@mail.gmail.com> From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <863c76ncqi.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:13:41 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: russcox@gmail.com (Russ Cox) writes: > looks like it fixed your problem. It did. Thanks a lot. Artur -- // WWW: apm.cifrid.net // PGP: finger apm@acrux.cifrid.net // From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 14 21:00:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 19:12:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3df9754e_8dfc_11d8_9cbb_00304828b574_30290; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8C43445F6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dbdaffa_8dfc_11d8_9bc2_00304828b574_30287; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5DD8F7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1602E7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d85bfe6_8dfc_11d8_9d13_00304828b574_30284; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5C23445F6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3cdbf0a6_8dfc_11d8_8f0d_00304828b574_30281; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:12:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B639219BCF; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96FED19BCE; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DDED19BE1; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 667A419BCF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 7965E39E; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:10:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66684388 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:10:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11201 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:11:20 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:10:24 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. Or is it just me? I > keep having to reposition the mouse on the pad because ACME moves the > cursor for my very convenience. I'm assuming that a trackball would > be better suited in such case. No, not really: you'd just have to roll instead of scroll. > But trackballs, specially three-button ones, seem expensive. I use a trackball, nothing to do with the gui: I want to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome, wandering mouse disease and needing a desk extension just to point accurately. The downside is that you'll hate it until you're used to it, after that, you'll hate mice! Also, once you're used to it, a trackball is much easier, especially for fine positioning: there's less physical and psychological intertia involved (one finger vs. one hand). I use a "Logitech=C2=AE Cordless TrackMan=C2=AE Optical". It's big, expensive and dextro-centric but I really like it: I'm getting another one for home. It has 4 buttons, scroll-lock button, a wheel and scrolling buttons, JIC you're short of things for your fingers to do. It's ~=E2=82=AC70, but, hey, my wrist is worth more than that. If you do find any cheaper alternatives I'd be interested. BTW: the smaller the ball, the trickier they are to use. Dave. From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 14 21:00:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 19:31:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dca9241c_8dfe_11d8_8bda_00304828b574_2190; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBFA3450E2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc6880a6_8dfe_11d8_9b0b_00304828b574_2186; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8F5BC7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5D17580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc2b10a4_8dfe_11d8_963e_00304828b574_2174; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEBC3450E2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db7f873e_8dfe_11d8_9344_00304828b574_2170; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FDD31A088; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3605119D4F; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26E7219DC5; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0145919CE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 26C903BE; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:28:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97C53B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:28:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14838 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:29:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1081938501.20600.65.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:28:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just noticed: =20 http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hardware/keyboardsmicejoystickswheelsandt= ablets/productView.htm?quicklinx=3D2H8K 4D Trackball Combo It claims to be a serial+PS2 trackball with 3 buttons and 2 wheels. I know nothing about it, but, since it's ~=E2=82=AC12, it may be worth a try. I may just buy one to try out. Also, there are a load of trackballs from trust, kensington and (yuk) microsoft available, some fairly cheap. Cheers, Dave. On Wed, 2004-04-14 at 11:10, Dave Lukes wrote: > > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. Or is it just me? I > > keep having to reposition the mouse on the pad because ACME moves the > > cursor for my very convenience. I'm assuming that a trackball would > > be better suited in such case. >=20 > No, not really: you'd just have to roll instead of scroll. >=20 > > But trackballs, specially three-button ones, seem expensive. >=20 > I use a trackball, nothing to do with the gui: > I want to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome, wandering mouse disease > and needing a desk extension just to point accurately. >=20 > The downside is that you'll hate it until you're used to it, > after that, you'll hate mice! >=20 > Also, once you're used to it, a trackball is much easier, > especially for fine positioning: there's less physical > and psychological intertia involved (one finger vs. one hand). >=20 > I use a "Logitech=C2=AE Cordless TrackMan=C2=AE Optical". >=20 > It's big, expensive and dextro-centric but I really like it: > I'm getting another one for home. >=20 > It has 4 buttons, scroll-lock button, a wheel and scrolling buttons, > JIC you're short of things for your fingers to do. >=20 > It's ~=E2=82=AC70, but, hey, my wrist is worth more than that. >=20 > If you do find any cheaper alternatives I'd be interested. > BTW: the smaller the ball, the trickier they are to use. >=20 > Dave. >=20 From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 22:05:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66622482_8e14_11d8_927d_00304828b574_5771; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FDC344331 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 662ba9ca_8e14_11d8_9fbd_00304828b574_5768; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 12E9A7580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0F27580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 65eaa740_8e14_11d8_9136_00304828b574_5765; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DDA344331 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6542f4c8_8e14_11d8_952d_00304828b574_5762; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:05:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73D6019DAE; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 726DC19A7F; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B3B319A90; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 084CA19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BC5A57630 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:04:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004e01c42220$92a63340$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:01:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. i'm sure logitech make one. From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 22:18:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e5e40b8_8e16_11d8_9f51_00304828b574_9804; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE66134518E for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dfbcf3c_8e16_11d8_99c5_00304828b574_9801; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9FC777580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EBD7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d8b0a90_8e16_11d8_8836_00304828b574_9798; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D13A34518E for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c8d3154_8e16_11d8_9326_00304828b574_9795; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DD45919DA3; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63F7519D83; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9325719D7D; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3DC419D83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 01CE54A6; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:16:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E874A0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:16:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18531 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:17:15 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <004e01c42220$92a63340$45747d50@SOMA> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> <004e01c42220$92a63340$45747d50@SOMA> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-zsPY7brDe+Kk5V4RsdlL" Message-Id: <1081948579.20600.177.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:16:19 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --=-zsPY7brDe+Kk5V4RsdlL Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's an echo in here:-). --=-zsPY7brDe+Kk5V4RsdlL Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from anvil.com (gatekeeper [192.168.4.253]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15966 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:05:07 +0100 (BST) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 2D6CE4A1; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:04:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354A943E for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:04:31 +0100 (BST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B8B19DA3; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 77E0B19A7A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B3B319A90; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 084CA19A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BC5A57630 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:04:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004e01c42220$92a63340$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:01:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Length: 78 X-Evolution-Source: imap://davel@mailhost/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. i'm sure logitech make one. --=-zsPY7brDe+Kk5V4RsdlL Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> References: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:10:24 +0100 X-Evolution-Transport: smtp://davel@mailhost X-Evolution-Account: davel@anvil.com X-Evolution-Fcc: imap://davel@mailhost/Sent X-Evolution-Format: text/plain X-Evolution-Source: imap://davel@mailhost/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. Or is it just me? I > keep having to reposition the mouse on the pad because ACME moves the > cursor for my very convenience. I'm assuming that a trackball would > be better suited in such case. No, not really: you'd just have to roll instead of scroll. > But trackballs, specially three-button ones, seem expensive. I use a trackball, nothing to do with the gui: I want to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome, wandering mouse disease and needing a desk extension just to point accurately. The downside is that you'll hate it until you're used to it, after that, you'll hate mice! Also, once you're used to it, a trackball is much easier, especially for fine positioning: there's less physical and psychological intertia involved (one finger vs. one hand). I use a "Logitech=C2=AE Cordless TrackMan=C2=AE Optical". It's big, expensive and dextro-centric but I really like it: I'm getting another one for home. It has 4 buttons, scroll-lock button, a wheel and scrolling buttons, JIC you're short of things for your fingers to do. It's ~=E2=82=AC70, but, hey, my wrist is worth more than that. If you do find any cheaper alternatives I'd be interested. BTW: the smaller the ball, the trickier they are to use. Dave. --=-zsPY7brDe+Kk5V4RsdlL-- From rminnich@lanl.gov Thu Apr 15 19:22:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 22:31:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc81d590_8e17_11d8_8831_00304828b574_12474; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890E83451B2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc4acee2_8e17_11d8_9d4c_00304828b574_12471; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 746457580FA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B17C7580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc102008_8e17_11d8_9ab6_00304828b574_12468; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431623451B2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb67e7c6_8e17_11d8_9506_00304828b574_12465; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C7A01A08B; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2454B19B2A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DAB419FAA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0397219B2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3EDUCik010050 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:30:12 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3EDUCdo025477 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:30:12 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3EDUBwO002087 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:30:11 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <9434b52ea2924f776bcec1c4927093e4@proxima.alt.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:30:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > I keep wishing for a three-button trackball. Or is it just me? No it's not. I have trackball but hate that damned scrollwheel. If you have a pointer to a 3-button trackball, let us know. ron From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 14 22:55:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61e4be04_8e1b_11d8_883c_00304828b574_20919; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D9D34475F for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61a4a3e6_8e1b_11d8_8f53_00304828b574_20916; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ECE4E7580FB; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22757580F9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6163ceb6_8e1b_11d8_9e74_00304828b574_20911; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A2334475F for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60a44f14_8e1b_11d8_8a49_00304828b574_20901; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B7DA19D5E; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 361251A06A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A5281A0A7; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C78B1A099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 4E6154B0; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BE64A9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25332 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:54:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081950797.20600.265.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:17 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > If you have a pointer to a 3-button trackball, let us know. > > ron Ron, The logitech has 4 buttons (3 under thumb position, 1 under annular/little ) _plus_ 2 scroll buttons _plus_ a scroll wheel _plus_ scroll-lock. I think it's called "overkill". Xfree86 thinks that one of the thumb buttons is button 1, the other two are both button 2, and the annular is 3: I'm sure you could get at all 4 buttons independently if you wanted to driver-hack. Dave. From anyrhine@cs.helsinki.fi Thu Apr 15 19:22:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 01:07:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2f371ea_8e2d_11d8_8696_00304828b574_15567; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544223452AD for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e293a922_8e2d_11d8_9271_00304828b574_15564; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3CDC47580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9E87580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e22792c8_8e2d_11d8_846d_00304828b574_15560; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275A23452AD for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e127d482_8e2d_11d8_88f8_00304828b574_15550; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2063A19AA1; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31BD719B13; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:07:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB8D519AE3; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA43619AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi [::ffff:128.214.9.204]) (IDENT: root, AUTH: PLAIN cs-relay, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:41 +0300 Received: from melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3EG6f26011396; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:41 +0300 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EG6egN011394; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:40 +0300 From: Aki M Nyrhinen Message-Id: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> To: davel@anvil.com, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gkfiigavkgulttenykfyfhueyz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:34 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gkfiigavkgulttenykfyfhueyz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Still, the button setup sounds like it'd make chording in acme painful. Is it feasible to learn it (1-2,2-1,1-3,2-3,...) well, or are you just not using chording? Aki --upas-gkfiigavkgulttenykfyfhueyz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Delivered-To: anyrhine@cs.helsinki.fi Return-Path: <9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu> Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [::ffff:130.203.4.6]) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:55:26 +0300 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B7DA19D5E; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 361251A06A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A5281A0A7; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C78B1A099 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 4E6154B0; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BE64A9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25332 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:54:13 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1081950797.20600.265.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:17 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Originating-ASN: AS1290 X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.00000000, version=0.17.2 > If you have a pointer to a 3-button trackball, let us know. > > ron Ron, The logitech has 4 buttons (3 under thumb position, 1 under annular/little ) _plus_ 2 scroll buttons _plus_ a scroll wheel _plus_ scroll-lock. I think it's called "overkill". Xfree86 thinks that one of the thumb buttons is button 1, the other two are both button 2, and the annular is 3: I'm sure you could get at all 4 buttons independently if you wanted to driver-hack. Dave. --upas-gkfiigavkgulttenykfyfhueyz-- From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 01:35:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id acb38fd0_8e31_11d8_8f59_00304828b574_23719; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:35:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3647D34448F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:35:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac4513d4_8e31_11d8_96b9_00304828b574_23685; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:35:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EC1C37580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:34:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A111758105 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:34:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa6135a2_8e31_11d8_999c_00304828b574_23570; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:34:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B1734475B for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:30:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 18a4a860_8e31_11d8_8d13_00304828b574_21431; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:30:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A7EF19DD5; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E83719D4F; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D3F519B73; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29C1619A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id DCD394E2; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:29:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56284CE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:29:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15941 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:29:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1081960126.20600.460.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:28:46 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Still, the button setup sounds like it'd make chording in acme > painful. Is it feasible to learn it (1-2,2-1,1-3,2-3,...) well, > or are you just not using chording? I'm not using plan9 at all yet ... When I do, I'll either live with the buttons (effectively, button1 under thumb, button 2 under index finger, button3 under annular finger), or I'll remap them in s/w somehow. Also, note that, firstly, a trackball doesn't "twitch" like a mouse when you hit the buttons, which makes accurate pointing a little easier and secondly, although you tend not to notice so much with a mouse, the usual sequence is move button(s) press/release/hold move ... i.e. the pointer doesn't move during button ops, so all you do is reduce the pressure of your ball finger(s) when pressing buttons, which is a lot easier than keeping a mouse still. Cheers, Dave. From anjuli.graunke@pse.org Thu Apr 15 19:22:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 03:05:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52bd6d22_8e3e_11d8_882d_00304828b574_10113; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14909344639 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52825124_8e3e_11d8_924a_00304828b574_10110; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 049AC7580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32D17580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 524ccdc4_8e3e_11d8_904f_00304828b574_10107; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDD9344639 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51919aae_8e3e_11d8_816f_00304828b574_10104; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CA091A0BA; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E82819DAF; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F23071A0B4; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pse.org (host-216-153-173-2.mil.choiceone.net [216.153.173.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9072719DAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <10404141305.AA111716037@pse.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Anjuli Graunke" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Precedence: bulk Subject: [9fans] automated response Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:05:39 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Thank you for your message. I will be away from my desk from Monday April 12 through Tuesday April 20 attending the Pi Sigma Epsilon National Convention in Reno. I will be checking me e-mail during this time, so please be patient if I don't respond promptly. If you need me urgently, call my cell phone at 414-807-5100. Have a great day! Anjuli Graunke Director of Chapter Operations Pi Sigma Epsilon 800-761-9350 anjuli.graunke@pse.org From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 08:36:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96e6751a_8e6c_11d8_8058_00304828b574_18788; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4A4344A81 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96a6f480_8e6c_11d8_8483_00304828b574_18785; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3035D7580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0667580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 966fad68_8e6c_11d8_986a_00304828b574_18782; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37CB344A83 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95c7cf12_8e6c_11d8_9de5_00304828b574_18773; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:36:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2C1D19EF2; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4866519F80; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:36:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 296AB19F92; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C594C19EF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 96B2D57455 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <015001c42278$cc7b7780$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:32:47 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > No it's not. I have trackball but hate that damned scrollwheel. the 'thing' is truly ghastly piece of 'design'. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 08:40:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1f55d396_8e6d_11d8_9c2b_00304828b574_19636; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FD5344A8F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1f1f2512_8e6d_11d8_8814_00304828b574_19633; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 145427580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5D97580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1edd0588_8e6d_11d8_9a00_00304828b574_19630; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9776344A8F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e3635e6_8e6d_11d8_8410_00304828b574_19627; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7669119E12; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B9FD19E85; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 264AA19E85; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1980519E0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C6D36573B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:39:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: chording is bad. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 08:53:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0c97698_8e6e_11d8_9c0e_00304828b574_21653; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189AD34555E for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0908bda_8e6e_11d8_8c14_00304828b574_21649; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E6AB17580FB; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55217580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f04ffe76_8e6e_11d8_9e7b_00304828b574_21644; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F0C34555F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef4b0548_8e6e_11d8_8781_00304828b574_21636; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:53:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 170B81A0C6; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC26F19AAC; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:53:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A61AE1A06A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92C3619AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D76585741F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:52:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01c201c4227b$2562f2e0$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> <1081960126.20600.460.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:46:19 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: the only reason i can see for a trackball is if yer flying around in an E-2 hawkeye: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/e-2.htm or an E-3 sentry: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/e-3.htm From robpike@gmail.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 09:10:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54ca7ad2_8e71_11d8_8599_00304828b574_25280; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148DD344223 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 524f5e30_8e71_11d8_8445_00304828b574_25265; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7DF81758100; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E6E7580FA for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51ba44ee_8e71_11d8_87f3_00304828b574_25252; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7BB8344223 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 502a0aa6_8e71_11d8_9067_00304828b574_25228; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69D6719E1A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A78DC19DFD; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9AFD1A03D; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 5805019D72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r65so3037cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.117.1 with SMTP id p1mr1975cwc; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> <018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:09:13 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > chording is bad. chording is good. -rob From 9nut@9netics.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 09:13:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7676894_8e71_11d8_90bc_00304828b574_26044; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B0E344254 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b730f836_8e71_11d8_819a_00304828b574_26041; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 346B87580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22277580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b6f2a810_8e71_11d8_9d0c_00304828b574_26038; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072BE344254 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b64b3f44_8e71_11d8_92a5_00304828b574_26035; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7573F19F36; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0B3019DFD; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:13:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66D1019DFD; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0B05F19D72 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <634c46ccda72663e1a2879128129e913@9netics.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <01c201c4227b$2562f2e0$45747d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:16:46 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the only reason i can see for a trackball is if yer flying > around in an E-2 hawkeye: > > http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/e-2.htm To be totally accurate, one of the pictures on this page, is that of an S-2 (Tracker); this one: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/us_mil_e2_02.jpg From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 09:26:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d7050ee_8e73_11d8_9bbe_00304828b574_28238; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FB43455B7 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d3a69fc_8e73_11d8_872b_00304828b574_28235; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CDA007580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850E27580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d0055f0_8e73_11d8_9d80_00304828b574_28232; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9FE3455B7 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c589810_8e73_11d8_8a1e_00304828b574_28229; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B95571A0C9; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC0A01A096; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B29A81A0C8; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9FC9C1A096 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.116.69]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A1D0957437 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:25:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <022a01c4227f$c3bdbfc0$45747d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <634c46ccda72663e1a2879128129e913@9netics.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:22:15 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > To be totally accurate, one of the pictures on this page, is that of > an S-2 (Tracker); this one: > > http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/us_mil_e2_02.jpg yes, it seems to lack a radome. didn't you discard it as bogus? From rminnich@lanl.gov Thu Apr 15 19:22:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 11:58:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5c40dea_8e88_11d8_9726_00304828b574_3636; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A59344DF5 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c58e77d4_8e88_11d8_8e87_00304828b574_3633; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C29377580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0BD7580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c54f66c0_8e88_11d8_9255_00304828b574_3630; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C866344DF5 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4a22f1e_8e88_11d8_9848_00304828b574_3627; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:58:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F063719FEF; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21C6319F8D; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:58:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08E4919D20; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAD8F19C60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3F2vuik030498 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:57:56 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3F2vt5n008773 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:57:56 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3F2vtwO004288 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:57:55 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:57:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote: > > chording is bad. > > chording is good. I did a Karnaugh map. I used to do these all the time, when a kid, so it was easy. I worked out the entire map and came up with the following profound conclusion: chording is I hope that helps. ron From martin@parvat.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 13:11:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb5c0aca_8e92_11d8_9f61_00304828b574_23529; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3E734427B for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb29ac60_8e92_11d8_951c_00304828b574_23526; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 93B407580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B7E7580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fae35918_8e92_11d8_8420_00304828b574_23518; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D99934427B for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa388aba_8e92_11d8_9b5b_00304828b574_23513; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:11:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A91A19FBC; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9065D19D80; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EF3419E06; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.173]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B6E519BF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BDyCp-0002ee-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:10:27 +0200 Received: from [203.101.50.190] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BDyCn-0007Qo-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:10:26 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Message-Id: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> <018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA> <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:36:50 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:09:13 -0700 Rob Pike wrote: > > chording is bad. > > chording is good. > > -rob Since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, even amongst 9 fans, would it be possible to conceive of a (non-limiting) non-chording version of acme to keep the other half happy? How would one do it without losing most of the (non-)ergonomics? (the (...) depending on one's opinion) Partly :-), but partly a serious question, since the "I hate chording" topic seems to come up quite frequently. How constrained do the non-chording folks feel by the current acme interface? Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Thu Apr 15 19:22:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 13:17:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df094af8_8e93_11d8_93c7_00304828b574_24580; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11BB344FDB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ded47da0_8e93_11d8_9e00_00304828b574_24577; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9CD607580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B9A7580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de9acbdc_8e93_11d8_89f0_00304828b574_24574; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA34344FDB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ddf3caee_8e93_11d8_85d6_00304828b574_24571; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E52319FA0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D33619F8B; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:17:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDAA819C11; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0981419BF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:17:24 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, even amongst 9 fans, > would it be possible to conceive of a (non-limiting) non-chording > version of acme to keep the other half happy? I've never heard anyone else than boyd. =E2=98=BA Kenji From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:56 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 13:52:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b66f4c14_8e98_11d8_9c34_00304828b574_3401; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F3B344369 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b62f1112_8e98_11d8_9cdb_00304828b574_3392; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E23A67580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6A77580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b5f7b46a_8e98_11d8_87f2_00304828b574_3387; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EE5344369 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b54b3fe6_8e98_11d8_895f_00304828b574_3380; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 445B419FD6; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22B6319FC1; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A48BB19E41; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61BB719E1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F7E45759E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:51:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008001c422a4$f3830f10$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:48:06 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I've never heard anyone else than boyd. =E2=98=BA the solution is simple: leave the code alone and i (and others) will sti= ck to sam. From 9nut@9netics.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 14:08:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1d1b6f0_8e9a_11d8_8f79_00304828b574_6414; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B304B344BFB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f19fa138_8e9a_11d8_93d0_00304828b574_6411; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 95BA27580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F757580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f164f9a2_8e9a_11d8_8c1c_00304828b574_6408; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADBF344BFB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0bb5aa0_8e9a_11d8_9821_00304828b574_6405; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC28C19FF9; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F08541A00E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:08:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAF5C19F5E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A0B0E19FC7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93ee48297fd02f91b63b2eee28593184@9netics.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:07:21 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > chording is Depends on what your definition of "IS" is. From robpike@gmail.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 14:14:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cae06dd8_8e9b_11d8_9850_00304828b574_7755; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDF1344C10 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id caaf1b0c_8e9b_11d8_9bc3_00304828b574_7751; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BE9B47580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E4A7580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca6eeec4_8e9b_11d8_97ab_00304828b574_7748; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81623344C10 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9bef852_8e9b_11d8_84b2_00304828b574_7745; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:14:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0061719D72; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A0C719F5E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F2A019D35; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.245]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 062261A020 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so3911cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.120.76 with SMTP id s76mr3019cwc; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9FCC3C91.613D9488@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> <018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA> <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:51 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > How would one do it without losing most of the (non-)ergonomics? > (the (...) depending on one's opinion) it's already done. the program is called acme. the chording is just shortcuts, not added functionality. -rob From 9nut@9netics.com Thu Apr 15 19:22:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 14:57:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccb0014a_8ea1_11d8_82c2_00304828b574_16448; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A6B345396 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc80ca24_8ea1_11d8_8217_00304828b574_16445; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C4D2A7580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEB67580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc413b84_8ea1_11d8_92a1_00304828b574_16442; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97DB4345396 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb9a4324_8ea1_11d8_9ea4_00304828b574_16439; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 861BA19E54; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D84319E2E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:57:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 73EDF19D35; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDAE819C8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:56:59 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > How would one do it without losing most of the (non-)ergonomics? > (the (...) depending on one's opinion) middle-click on Cut , Snarf , Paste ? To paraphrase Martha Stewart: "chording: it's a good thing" From forsyth@terzarima.net Thu Apr 15 19:22:57 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 15:46:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a59b2600_8ea8_11d8_9ad5_00304828b574_31628; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB639345015 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a56a99fe_8ea8_11d8_96ce_00304828b574_31625; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ADF237580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673B07580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a52bfff0_8ea8_11d8_865a_00304828b574_31622; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80758345016 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a484889c_8ea8_11d8_86ab_00304828b574_31617; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:46:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5AEF319E50; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA9819E31; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 009471A00E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F191E19CDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:46:25 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>How constrained do the non-chording folks feel by the current acme interface? it will be less than the severe constraint felt by those who chord, who are stuck without chording in nearly every other interface known to man, which nevertheless are full of unbelievably many utterly trivial and silly things that don't actually help you get your work done. the arrival of chording was the first time (apart from Oberon, same thing only more so) i had seen a `look and feel' that actually `felt' different: once you get used to it, it feels as if you're grabbing text directly from the screen with the mouse (and the `undo' effect is important too). one current exception is Opera, which does use chording a bit. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Thu Apr 15 19:22:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 16:12:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4630f024_8eac_11d8_926d_00304828b574_4680; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE7634563A for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45fb78a4_8eac_11d8_8a76_00304828b574_4677; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9703D7580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5000A7580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45c16aec_8eac_11d8_9317_00304828b574_4674; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD8B34563A for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45123ab8_8eac_11d8_84d0_00304828b574_4671; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19F7B19CE7; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 547D719B7C; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:12:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37F9F19BF3; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7031519B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3F7ApD29572 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:53 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:10:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > No, not really: you'd just have to roll instead of scroll. > Well, you don't need to _lift_ the device, the way a mouse demands. > Also, once you're used to it, a trackball is much easier, > especially for fine positioning: there's less physical > and psychological intertia involved (one finger vs. one hand). > Yes and no. Positioning isn't necessarily easier. > It's big, expensive and dextro-centric but I really like it: > I'm getting another one for home. > I prefer using my left hand, sadly. > It has 4 buttons, scroll-lock button, a wheel and scrolling buttons, > JIC you're short of things for your fingers to do. > You mention that three buttons are under the right-hand thumb. I agree with others that chording is practically impossible in such case. Why didn't Logitech just stick a third button on their perfectly adequate product of a few years ago, I wonder? Its only other flaw seems to have been a propensity to catch smoke particles which lead to an extremely ugly, grimy interior. Nobody smokes in my office, so the problem would be much smaller. ++L From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 15 22:30:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 19:38:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c8e6bea_8ec9_11d8_9b3d_00304828b574_13882; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5413A3445BD for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c4da42a_8ec9_11d8_93e2_00304828b574_13879; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 33DD87580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3277580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c0166d2_8ec9_11d8_8597_00304828b574_13876; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AD43445BD for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b4c6fca_8ec9_11d8_8009_00304828b574_13873; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5758819E29; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2929E19E6E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:38:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2507019E0C; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E542019D58 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 340D937A; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:36:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F886370 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:36:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26138 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:37:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> References: <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082025393.26171.99.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:36:33 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 08:10, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > Yes and no. Positioning isn't necessarily easier. It _must_ be, once you're used to it: less muscles and inertia involved. Plus, when you get CTS, using a mouse becomes a _lot_ harder! > I prefer using my left hand, sadly. :-(. I've been looking for left handed or neutral pointing interfaces, and they are few and far between. > > It has 4 buttons, scroll-lock button, a wheel and scrolling buttons, > > JIC you're short of things for your fingers to do. > > > You mention that three buttons are under the right-hand thumb. I > agree with others that chording is practically impossible in such > case. I lied: see later mail: there's actually 8(eight) buttons in total: 3 under the thumb, one under your pinkie/annular/whatever finger and a scroll wheel with 2 scroll buttons either end plus a scroll lock button (no, I'm not making this up!!!). So you can get a reasonable combo of (thumb, index, annular) for the 3 buttons. Interestingly XF86 gives you 2 middle buttons (the scroll wheel and one of the other thumb buttons), and I'm starting to use them interchangeably?!? (If you wanted to, you could, no doubt, remap some of the other 5 buttons to create a greatly enriched user chording experience). > Why didn't Logitech just stick a third button on their perfectly > adequate product of a few years ago, I wonder? Lack of marketing-compatibility:-). > Its only other flaw > seems to have been a propensity to catch smoke particles which lead to > an extremely ugly, grimy interior. Nobody smokes in my office, so the > problem would be much smaller. Well, that's generally less of a problem with optical stuff anyway: I pop the ball out of mine about once a month and blow/wipe the dust off and that's it. Dave. From martin@parvat.com Thu Apr 15 22:30:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 19:43:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5dc83d4_8ec9_11d8_9e1b_00304828b574_17779; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871CD34458E for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c533c50a_8ec9_11d8_850e_00304828b574_17767; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 37BC67580FD; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68277580FB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4d6d5ca_8ec9_11d8_9d4b_00304828b574_17761; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D95134458E for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c05e8d62_8ec9_11d8_8e3a_00304828b574_17702; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:43:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E731D19E60; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F7D41A063; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9682719E60; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:42:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE23719D35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BE4KY-0000qa-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:42:50 +0200 Received: from [203.101.50.190] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BE4KW-0007HM-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:42:49 +0200 From: Martin C.Atkins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Message-Id: <20040415160910.428e5351.martin@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <9FCC3C91.613D9488@mail.gmail.com> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi> <018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA> <98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com> <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> <9FCC3C91.613D9488@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:113a684b1fe18b05bb432fb0fae7a311 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:09:10 +0530 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:51 -0700 Rob Pike wrote: > > How would one do it without losing most of the (non-)ergonomics? > > (the (...) depending on one's opinion) > > it's already done. the program is called acme. the chording is > just shortcuts, not added functionality. I suppose I was assuming that the non-chording alternatives to the chords were significantly less "convenient" than the chords - why else would the chords be there? So my question was: is there a way to be as convenient as the chords, without using chords? Has anyone any ideas? Charles' contribution implies that the answer might be "no". Which would be a perfectly reasonable answer to my question! However, the fact remains that I remember several people (not just Boyd) saying they don't/can't use chords, for various reasons. I'm neutral on that point, and would just say that "they certainly take some getting used to". Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From forsyth@terzarima.net Thu Apr 15 22:30:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 20:01:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 507458bc_8ecc_11d8_9870_00304828b574_787; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0E63445EF for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 504177a8_8ecc_11d8_8df6_00304828b574_781; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B40E87580FB; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755307580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 500ac726_8ecc_11d8_9ca7_00304828b574_775; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990A13445EF for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f69db72_8ecc_11d8_84fd_00304828b574_770; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB944199FC; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5D9D319A60; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:00:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F08E519E72; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:59:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6A5A819E75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20040415160910.428e5351.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:59:43 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>Charles' contribution implies that the answer might be "no". Which >>would be a perfectly reasonable answer to my question! it was not so much the answer was `no' -- obviously you could use the increasingly extensive selection of function keys or an emacs-style richard-the-third scheme-- but the acme interface is clean and pleasantly uncluttered as it is, thanks. also, that i'm more interested in how other interfaces might benefit from more of the same, or in what other ways might an interface be given different `feel' (that does some good)? acme is suggestive of some possibilities for `a user interface for programmers'. (at last.) is there a potential `user interface for end-users that want to get their work done' that doesn't patronise the poor sods or limit them with cruddy `metaphors'? bouncy globes indeed. From a@9srv.net Thu Apr 15 22:30:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 20:02:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6d61d314_8ecc_11d8_817f_00304828b574_1617; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557243445EF for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6d2b8502_8ecc_11d8_9439_00304828b574_1614; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 427057580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0117580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6cf2eae4_8ecc_11d8_9071_00304828b574_1610; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A5F3445F0 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c494782_8ecc_11d8_9541_00304828b574_1600; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44AD719AD1; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26CCC19ACF; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 518D519A12; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D5F0199D8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2bc9cba3aaaff0a4dffe668e281beac8@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <20040415160910.428e5351.martin@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:47:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // So my question was: is there a way to be as convenient as the // chords, without using chords? Has anyone any ideas? given that all the keys/buttons already have their own meaning, the only two options (far as i see) is making the *combintations* have different meaning (chording), or expose the functionaly to the existing functionality (click on "Cut"). both are already in acme, although it's optimized for the former (sam, by contrast, i would consider optimized to the later, with its menus under the pointer on button-press, regardless of position). there are two other options that preserve the "each key has its function" assumption: more keys, or *replace* tun functionality. i don't think the PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Ins/Del block is used frequently in Plan 9 (certainly not by me or others i've observed), in favor of the arrow-scroll. Ins and Del could be reasonalbe Cut and Paste proxies providing the same effect as the acme chording. or add buttons, and get back to the old Sun aircraft-carrier-sized keyboards. it's been a while, but didn't they have cut and paste? the remaining option is toss the "each key has its function" assumption, but i think that gets you context-sensative key meaning, and intuitivly that sounds like it would confuse the hell out of my hands - the meaning is wired well below concious level. i *do* have a Shuttle Xpress i use with my PowerBook, quite happily. it's got 5 buttons and two (nested) jog wheels. they currently do nothing for me in Plan 9 or X11. in OS X, pretty much everything's configurable, and (optionally) context sensitive (interpreted by their software). it might be useful in Plan 9 if i could map, say, the buttons to 1+2, 1+3, 1+(2,3) and the outter jog wheel to scroll up/down. anyway, enough of that. personally, i miss the chording in every application i've ever used after my first month of acme. =E3=82=A2 From rminnich@lanl.gov Fri Apr 16 15:00:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 22:42:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c3440cdc_8ee2_11d8_90ae_00304828b574_7929; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4D9344E97 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c311472a_8ee2_11d8_8555_00304828b574_7926; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4276C7580FA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF787580F9 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2d1ef30_8ee2_11d8_98ed_00304828b574_7923; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106AA344E97 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c228c57c_8ee2_11d8_851f_00304828b574_7920; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94EE619EC5; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 023B819E8E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E159A19E7A; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F80E19E6E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3FDfOik017745 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:41:25 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3FDfO5n031707 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:41:24 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3FDfOwO022439 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:41:24 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:41:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Martin C.Atkins wrote: > Partly :-), but partly a serious question, since the "I hate > chording" topic seems to come up quite frequently. How constrained do > the non-chording folks feel by the current acme interface? I don't chord. I'm too uncoordinated. I still like Acme quite a bit. I shift around too many editors in a single day to really get too exercised about this or that feature. ron From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Fri Apr 16 15:00:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 15 23:16:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89869db6_8ee7_11d8_947c_00304828b574_7015; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEDD344730 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8950bdea_8ee7_11d8_8d57_00304828b574_7009; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71CE6758100; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E1A758108 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 873b754a_8ee7_11d8_8167_00304828b574_6978; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040F8344736 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9b2e7da_8ee6_11d8_9931_00304828b574_32390; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C61D219E7A; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7317E19E72; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:10:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B439419E6C; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cc-smtp3 (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 35A8219DF9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by cc-smtp3 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:09:14 +0100 Received: from larch (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3FG05Iw032146 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:00:06 +0100 Message-ID: <60795aa85cca8833f6b2bad4dc4f08e4@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: [9fans] sam & chording Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:09:12 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have ported Mark Wilkinson's mouse chording patch from the 8=C2=BD/X11 samterm to the current plan9 release. Have I (re)guilded a lilly, or made a usefull feature more uinversal? -Steve From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Fri Apr 16 15:00:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 00:03:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 144b48d8_8eee_11d8_9538_00304828b574_13756; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72D7344ECA for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 141b4818_8eee_11d8_857a_00304828b574_13753; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A89C87580F9; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626F67580FA for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13dc6986_8eee_11d8_974f_00304828b574_13750; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C71D344ECA for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 133576c6_8eee_11d8_8714_00304828b574_13742; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:03:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CBAA19F78; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F279919E78; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:03:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B2F919D80; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 182C619E78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <701592418b4e4f2397578c614b3e0887@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <2bc9cba3aaaff0a4dffe668e281beac8@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:01:45 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the remaining option is toss the "each key has its function" > assumption, but i think that gets you context-sensative key > meaning, and intuitivly that sounds like it would confuse the hell > out of my hands - the meaning is wired well below concious level. I think you left out the so called ''mouse gestures''. Last time they were mentioned on this list people claimed they only had derogatory meaning :) andrey ps: has anyone tried ''gestures'' (now i can't type it without giggling like a schoolgirl!) with a trackball? how hard are they? From micah@cnm-vra.com Fri Apr 16 15:00:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 01:33:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7f4ef06_8efa_11d8_941c_00304828b574_24070; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1EEC345017 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a76153b8_8efa_11d8_91e0_00304828b574_24055; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EA1737580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78787580FE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a629a70c_8efa_11d8_9f6b_00304828b574_24037; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F02345017 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3652d70_8efa_11d8_8d9f_00304828b574_23999; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:33:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39CA81A042; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31C4C19F9B; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:33:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D42A19E7B; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epaphras.cnm-vra.com (adsl-66-122-178-130.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net [66.122.178.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 08DEB19BA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by epaphras.cnm-vra.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1282E8F; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Stetson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Message-ID: <20040415163204.GA4629@epaphras> References: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:32:04 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Why didn't Logitech just stick a third button on their perfectly > adequate product of a few years ago, I wonder? Its only other flaw Sigh. They had some very nice three-button products a few years ago -- both mice and trackballs. I still use my three button MouseMan all the time. I'd like to go optical, and possibly cordless, but I'm not willing to settle for a lesser mouse. But here's an idea. We three-button mouse users are apparently a minority group, and we're obviously being discriminated against. Perhaps we could lobby for some sort of affirmative action law dictating that all mouse manufacturers produce a particular percentage of their mice with a sane button configuration. I don't think this would be too hard to pull off, especially here in California. Micah From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 02:00:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7154186a_8efe_11d8_8ad4_00304828b574_16008; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36F134451F for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 711cc23e_8efe_11d8_9a8c_00304828b574_16003; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E8B9A7580FE; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25BA7758105 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f88df8e_8efe_11d8_81f2_00304828b574_15983; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826463445DD for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:55:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b94075b6_8efd_11d8_8551_00304828b574_10299; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:55:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E8DF19F1E; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B09A19BEF; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3309B19B79; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D21819B6B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 714764BE; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:53:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943544B1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:53:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05942 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:53:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <701592418b4e4f2397578c614b3e0887@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <701592418b4e4f2397578c614b3e0887@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082047978.26171.405.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:52:58 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > ps: has anyone tried ''gestures'' > with a trackball? how hard are they? I just did: they're no worse with a trackball than with a mouse:-). 'Nuff said. > (now i can't type it without > giggling like a schoolgirl!) Ditto. Dave. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 02:40:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 075e0ee2_8f04_11d8_8a97_00304828b574_16104; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AECEE3450D7 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06fa3e8a_8f04_11d8_8e3f_00304828b574_16094; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5EBF8758100; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149EE7580FB for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0600d8cc_8f04_11d8_8f06_00304828b574_16076; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CAB93450D7 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02f3ed36_8f04_11d8_8890_00304828b574_16034; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:40:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D727B19CF8; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 506FB19CF8; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:40:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 513DD19CB1; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA67819B80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B5A337B7E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:39:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00cc01c42310$3ef837c0$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:36:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Why didn't Logitech just stick a third button on their perfectly > adequate product of a few years ago, I wonder? probably because windows only ever used 2 and X was probably not in the equation. even X only really used 2 button; the 3rd being used by very few things and in completely arbitrary ways. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 02:59:04 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 951896ce_8f06_11d8_925e_00304828b574_30457; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75E6345125 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94e68634_8f06_11d8_960a_00304828b574_30434; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:03 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A8BFB7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:03 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD657580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94a34338_8f06_11d8_8019_00304828b574_30417; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70813345125 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93f91462_8f06_11d8_8dea_00304828b574_30346; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:59:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9215519B0C; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FE1B19AD4; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AED5419CE0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CAA6019D7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7683D3796B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:56:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <012101c42312$a31ce5a0$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <200404141606.i3EG6egN011394@melkinkari.cs.helsinki.fi><018701c42279$5de80350$45747d50@SOMA><98271634.407BA074@mail.gmail.com><20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com><9FCC3C91.613D9488@mail.gmail.com> <20040415160910.428e5351.martin@parvat.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:54:02 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > However, the fact remains that I remember several people (not just > Boyd) saying they don't/can't use chords, for various reasons. rob is right in that chording is a short cut. forsyth is right in that those who use it will get a shock when they move from acme to other user interfaces and that the addition of chording may indicate a useability problem with the current interface. i've always thought that acme had some neat ideas in it, but i'm a sam-ite. use the tools that suit you for the job. From g.pavelcak@comcast.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 03:04:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c098a68_8f07_11d8_981c_00304828b574_2322; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9027A345135 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5bd85e02_8f07_11d8_9b6a_00304828b574_2319; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 712EC7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250AA7580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b956b1a_8f07_11d8_9a0a_00304828b574_2316; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D94A345135 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5aed9cdc_8f07_11d8_88d6_00304828b574_2311; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 491C819BF0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C6A019C13; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:04:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CE3F19BAA; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3207C19AAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from df1njh31 (uhlc-225.dhcp.umass.edu[128.119.118.225]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040415180338011008iqtre> (Authid: g.pavelcak); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:03:38 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c42313$fa918c90$e1767780@SARIS.ads.umass.edu> From: "Greg Pavelcak" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1081937424.20600.29.camel@zevon> <59cc861c309ae76693745694d3c59ead@proxima.alt.za> <20040415163204.GA4629@epaphras> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:03:38 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Micah Stetson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice > > Why didn't Logitech just stick a third button on their perfectly > > adequate product of a few years ago, I wonder? Its only other flaw > > Sigh. They had some very nice three-button products a > few years ago -- both mice and trackballs. I still use > my three button MouseMan all the time. I'd like to go > optical, and possibly cordless, but I'm not willing to > settle for a lesser mouse. > Yeah. I still like my TrackMan Marble. A ball under the thumb and three big buttons. Very comfy. Unfortunately, button 1 sometimes "lets go" in the middle of selecting text areas. It doesn't realize I'm still holding it down, so I use the wheeled version. It's nowhere near as good. Greg From rm@hamnavoe.com Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 03:39:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f9368fe_8f0c_11d8_902a_00304828b574_882; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471AC3448AB for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f5d57a0_8f0c_11d8_8d14_00304828b574_879; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 28BC67580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B174C7580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f0725a6_8f0c_11d8_8cc8_00304828b574_875; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7903448AB for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e603d72_8f0c_11d8_9c5a_00304828b574_871; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9937919D7D; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C25AE19CA7; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D236819CA7; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3D1D419C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <2bc9cba3aaaff0a4dffe668e281beac8@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:46 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the old Sun aircraft-carrier-sized > keyboards. it's been a while, but didn't they have cut and paste? The lefthand keypad on the one gathering dust under my desk has keys labelled: Stop Again Props Undo Front Copy Open Paste Find Cut Help The only one I can remember ever using is Stop. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 03:59:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ad0f0d4_8f0f_11d8_8dac_00304828b574_16908; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C3F34519C for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a86d3f0_8f0f_11d8_96bf_00304828b574_16905; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 012077580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFF07580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a453756_8f0f_11d8_872d_00304828b574_16902; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378F34519C for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 099cc454_8f0f_11d8_8a8a_00304828b574_16899; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:59:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78C5719DD0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43AE019D8D; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB98619CE0; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6174519D80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DB39557504 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:58:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01df01c4231b$34de9cb0$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:55:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the old Sun aircraft-carrier-sized keyboards. it's been a while, ... iirc brucee's (one time) cat halted his sun by jumping down on the keyboard and hitting: Alt-L1-a impressive piece of chording ;) From a@9srv.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 04:05:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id da71b436_8f0f_11d8_90ef_00304828b574_22191; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2E03451C7 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id da0485b4_8f0f_11d8_84a1_00304828b574_22186; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1D4847580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FF57580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9c34b94_8f0f_11d8_96b4_00304828b574_22183; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14863451C7 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d91bfbdc_8f0f_11d8_8fdc_00304828b574_22180; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:05:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99C3D19B5D; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3963B19D7D; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAE9419D2F; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8137B19B86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53d9b00f5fa9e3ce39072644edd3313d@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:01:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yeah, them's the keys. most of the suns i hooked them up to didn't actually do anything with most of them, either. did seem like something of a waste, though. i never knew what "Props" was supposed to do. did it cause things like "Dude, you rock!" to print on the screen? =E3=82=A2 From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Fri Apr 16 15:00:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 04:12:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd4a3844_8f10_11d8_8e22_00304828b574_27477; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5103451E9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd1904c2_8f10_11d8_9e9e_00304828b574_27474; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C02AC7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778B17580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dcd8be08_8f10_11d8_8471_00304828b574_27471; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBB33451E9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc30bf50_8f10_11d8_82a4_00304828b574_27468; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:12:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A316E19E00; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F3D019D85; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:12:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3164119D85; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E9CDC19CD1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26940 invoked by uid 991); 15 Apr 2004 19:11:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20040415191104.26939.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: <53d9b00f5fa9e3ce39072644edd3313d@9srv.net> References: <53d9b00f5fa9e3ce39072644edd3313d@9srv.net> Comments: In-reply-to a@9srv.net message dated "Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:01:25 -0400." From: Scott Schwartz Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:11:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: | yeah, them's the keys. most of the suns i hooked them up to | didn't actually do anything with most of them, either. did | seem like something of a waste, though. I was an enthusiastic user of the "Front" key for shuffling windows around, as well as "Copy" and "Paste" to access the clipboard (instead of just the selection). | i never knew what "Props" was supposed to do. did it cause | things like "Dude, you rock!" to print on the screen? It opened the current application's preferences dialog (in SunView and Openlook, at least.) From brucee@chunder.com Fri Apr 16 15:00:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 04:21:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16269972_8f12_11d8_8eee_00304828b574_2370; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBC9345217 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15f1ecfe_8f12_11d8_991f_00304828b574_2367; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ABE7A7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642967580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15b94502_8f12_11d8_99a8_00304828b574_2364; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAF0345217 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1510dc00_8f12_11d8_9619_00304828b574_2361; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:21:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3C43C199F4; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29486199BF; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:20:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B680619CD1; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D8CE19E24 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20781 invoked by uid 89); 15 Apr 2004 19:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2004 19:11:22 -0000 Message-ID: <407EE0EA.1000402@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice References: <01df01c4231b$34de9cb0$57d87d50@SOMA> In-Reply-To: <01df01c4231b$34de9cb0$57d87d50@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:22:18 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: was indeed a clever cat - but that feat was followed by scorn and derision. i bet he could have turned off a 780 with hia bum. oh yeah, that's been done. brucee boyd, rounin wrote: >>the old Sun aircraft-carrier-sized keyboards. it's been a while, ... > > > iirc brucee's (one time) cat halted his sun by jumping down on the keyboard > and hitting: > > Alt-L1-a > > impressive piece of chording ;) From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 15:00:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 04:27:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2d0a598_8f12_11d8_95d4_00304828b574_7139; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0337D345238 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f29ed810_8f12_11d8_9343_00304828b574_7136; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D9B197580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8B07580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f264c756_8f12_11d8_9c30_00304828b574_7133; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B214D345238 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1bc6836_8f12_11d8_89fb_00304828b574_7130; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE3A419C17; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E15019ADB; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:27:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52FB419BDD; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 004B9199F4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 922C057551 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:26:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <020001c4231f$2fe32470$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <01df01c4231b$34de9cb0$57d87d50@SOMA> <407EE0EA.1000402@chunder.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:23:50 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i bet he could have turned off a 780 > with hia bum. oh yeah, that's been done. yes, that feat was most impressive. From tom@insolvencyhelp.org Fri Apr 16 15:00:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 10:10:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9fb279c_8f42_11d8_9950_00304828b574_11199; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0115534428E for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9c4960a_8f42_11d8_8908_00304828b574_11193; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 92A79758100; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15724758107 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df16a194_8f42_11d8_86b9_00304828b574_11057; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:10:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36BC344978 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:09:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b8c4c5ac_8f42_11d8_94f0_00304828b574_9851; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B009319BA5; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5136519BC6; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:09:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9ABC19B1B; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E51C19B1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from metta.miller.net (h0004e267c13e.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.91.163.177]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004041601080301500rdoebe>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0000 From: "Thomas Miller" Organization: InsolvencyHelp.Org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Successful install+update? Message-ID: <407F31CF.nail9O11TLQU@insolvencyhelp.org> User-Agent: nail 10.6 11/15/03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Thomas Miller" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:07:27 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, Maybe I successfully updated and recompiled a plan9 system which was installed today from an install cd burned back in August 2003. I had to resolve a couple of minor problems which I will mention briefly. I have some questions too. I used the August 2003 install cd to put a kfs file system on an x86 box. I got a sources account, and the pulls seemed to work fine. My "mk all" in /sys/src didn't complete until after I removed an empty directory called /sys/src/cmd/rtstats. The rstats directory existed on my system, but was not on sources. When I installed and rebooted, however, the system got only as far as "dossrv: serving #s/dos," followed repeatedly by "fifo stat 0 scrio d6000000 scr 802b2028 pc 8017094E" (copied by hand). I reinstalled from the cd, repulled, rebuilt, and reran "mk install." After looking around, I guessed that the kernel needed to be rebuilt too. I rebuilt and reinstalled 9pcdisk, and the machine now seems to boot and run fine. Logs made with "| tee logfilename" are available at ftp://insolvencyhelp.org/pub/. The logs are for a pull a few days ago, a second pull today just prior to today's first build, and the "mk all," the "mk install," and the kernel "mk" from today's second build. I'd be grateful if one of you guys who actually know something could please warn me if I wasn't as succesful as I think. Maybe I somehow shot myself in the foot in a way I do not yet realize. Also, I'd like to know if there was an easy way I could have fixed the kernel problem without re-installing from the cd. Would anybody care to explain why the old kernel didn't work? Thanks to everybody responsible for making plan9 and for making plan9 available to me. Kindest regards, Tom From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 16 21:27:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 15:50:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c76e9da_8f72_11d8_88a1_00304828b574_15963; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F950344C33 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c45bc8e_8f72_11d8_92e5_00304828b574_15960; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 505BF7580FB; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A2F7580FA for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c0c465c_8f72_11d8_97e2_00304828b574_15954; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7D6344C33 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b640e74_8f72_11d8_8260_00304828b574_15945; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21F8F19D7A; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B113519D0E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:50:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC95319AC7; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4CC7219D1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33f0c04ef455444413b6dcf2d9db3b9b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Successful install+update? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <407F31CF.nail9O11TLQU@insolvencyhelp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:49:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > followed repeatedly by "fifo stat 0 scrio d6000000 > scr 802b2028 pc 8017094E" (copied by hand). I saw that on some of our machines and I think it has to do with changes in the nvidia driver that don't fit well with our cards. Going back to the driver version as of some days go fixed this. (IIRC it's /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/nvidia.c and /sys/src/9/pc/devnvidia.c; although I'd also go back to the /lib/vgadb of the same date just for sanity). > I reinstalled from the cd, repulled, rebuilt, and > reran "mk install." After looking around, I > guessed that the kernel needed to be rebuilt too. > I rebuilt and reinstalled 9pcdisk, and the machine > now seems to boot and run fine. I don't understand why this did fix your problem; although I'd like to. Maybe I'm wrong regarding the nvidia thing. hth From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 16 21:27:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 15:56:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 335f577a_8f73_11d8_8c50_00304828b574_21077; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A2D344C60 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33250458_8f73_11d8_9809_00304828b574_21074; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D216F7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABF17580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32ea57cc_8f73_11d8_931d_00304828b574_21071; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48B8344C60 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32435fda_8f73_11d8_9dc2_00304828b574_21068; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2F2D319CF9; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAF7619D0E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:56:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8731219D1F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5321419D63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <412a76b4ec0ca6b86437fd26bcf34131@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <407EE0EA.1000402@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:55:28 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> iirc brucee's (one time) cat halted his sun by jumping down on the keyboard >> and hitting: >> >> Alt-L1-a Yep. And it was even more impresive that you could continue execution without rebooting the thing. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Fri Apr 16 21:27:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 16:08:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e01736d0_8f74_11d8_981e_00304828b574_32024; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED3F345093 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dfe22b70_8f74_11d8_8fa3_00304828b574_32021; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2A3667580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62027580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dfa82650_8f74_11d8_9469_00304828b574_32018; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF1B345093 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id deffd22a_8f74_11d8_9f3e_00304828b574_32013; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADEF819DB1; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B386E19AD9; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC9FB19D8F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0734C19AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90be826f65f335ab5fc4e7bf5f28293d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Successful install+update? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <33f0c04ef455444413b6dcf2d9db3b9b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:06:43 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I don't understand why this did fix your problem; although > I'd like to. Maybe I'm wrong regarding the nvidia thing. vganvidia.c was updated on the 6th (or 7th) of April and the 'fifo stat...' message disappeared from it: /n/dump/2004/0415/sys/src/9/pc/vganvidia.c:385,458 c /n/dump/2004/0407/sys/src/9/pc/vganvidia.c:263,264 [big snip] --- > if(x >= 1000000) > iprint("fifo stat %d scrio %.8lux scr %p pc %luX\n", *fifofree, scr->io, scr, getcallerpc(&scr)); so your troublesome kernels must be older ones... i haven't recompiled since (though i must now, to get geoff's ipv6 changes in) so i don't know whether my cards will experience any problems with the changed vganvidia.c... hth, andrey From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 16 21:27:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 16:13:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92779e3c_8f75_11d8_8f95_00304828b574_3547; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1BC34538F for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92130f80_8f75_11d8_9060_00304828b574_3544; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 199357580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791C77580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91a5cb32_8f75_11d8_8705_00304828b574_3541; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10FF034538F for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 90ada060_8f75_11d8_8be9_00304828b574_3538; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:13:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D47F219DC5; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 885A719D7C; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 888C519CE6; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E83E319D7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4aee4b4fec725290801663b323136933@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Successful install+update? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <90be826f65f335ab5fc4e7bf5f28293d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ifjuyqenmzbkexmitpihrvzfea" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:12:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ifjuyqenmzbkexmitpihrvzfea Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see. Actually we had both a cursor/speed problem and the message. But I now see how the message went away. thanks --upas-ifjuyqenmzbkexmitpihrvzfea Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 16 09:08:23 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB33D19D7C; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A405919AD9; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:08:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CC9FB19D8F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0734C19AD9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90be826f65f335ab5fc4e7bf5f28293d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Successful install+update? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <33f0c04ef455444413b6dcf2d9db3b9b@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:06:43 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I don't understand why this did fix your problem; although > I'd like to. Maybe I'm wrong regarding the nvidia thing. vganvidia.c was updated on the 6th (or 7th) of April and the 'fifo stat...' message disappeared from it: /n/dump/2004/0415/sys/src/9/pc/vganvidia.c:385,458 c /n/dump/2004/0407/sys/src/9/pc/vganvidia.c:263,264 [big snip] --- > if(x >= 1000000) > iprint("fifo stat %d scrio %.8lux scr %p pc %luX\n", *fifofree, scr->io, scr, getcallerpc(&scr)); so your troublesome kernels must be older ones... i haven't recompiled since (though i must now, to get geoff's ipv6 changes in) so i don't know whether my cards will experience any problems with the changed vganvidia.c... hth, andrey --upas-ifjuyqenmzbkexmitpihrvzfea-- From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 16 21:27:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 17:11:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad5ebb24_8f7d_11d8_9c0a_00304828b574_22269; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9714F344C83 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad27a044_8f7d_11d8_89d5_00304828b574_22266; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 841BC7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450B37580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aceec2e2_8f7d_11d8_9e35_00304828b574_22263; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431CC344C83 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac3c02c4_8f7d_11d8_82e0_00304828b574_22260; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24F7C19DB5; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1261019D92; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E339719D4E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CDD619D1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3G84dD06938 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:04:43 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Subject: [9fans] waitpid() Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:04:29 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Posix waitpid() seemingly can select the PID to wait for. Unlike P9 waitpid(2) which merely returns the PID. It has always baffled me that originally Unix allowed one to wait for a child to complete without providing a mechanism to select _which_ child. In other words, I side with Posix on this issue but I would be curious to know why what seems obvious to me (in hindsight of course) was not the design in the first place. Of some importance is the fact that the current APE implementation has an understandably faulty waitpid(): it removes PIDs it does not (yet) care about while looking from the requested one. When one later goes looking for one of these discarded PIDs, it naturally does not get found. It is unmanageable to cache PIDs somehow within APE wait model, because it is difficult (unless I miss something) if not impossible to track PID as children terminate, so they can be added to the cache by the time a process comes looking for them. So the big question is whether it is entirely out of the question to enhance the kernel "wait" functionality so that something resembling Posix waitpid() can return the termination information for a chosen PID. I have not looked at the kernel myself, but until the historical reasons have been shown to be insignificant, I'm not the best person to investigate this. ++L From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 16 21:27:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 17:55:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d428be5c_8f83_11d8_9408_00304828b574_26672; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A934B3458B5 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3f427aa_8f83_11d8_820d_00304828b574_26669; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 949F87580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEBB7580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3ba7992_8f83_11d8_8ae2_00304828b574_26666; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630613458B5 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3112b3a_8f83_11d8_83db_00304828b574_26657; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:55:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBB9919C57; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2709419D1B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AD7319D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA2BA19C57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:54:38 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Posix waitpid() seemingly can select the PID to wait for. Unlike P9 > waitpid(2) which merely returns the PID. My question is, what does posix say regarding the pids you don't want. I mean, does it say something like "when waitpid finds an unwanted pid it guarantees that such information is not dropped" or the opposite, or just nothing about. Perhaps rsc knows. Regarding what should be done, I think that all waitpid() variants should be dropped. The regular wait one is the one that should be there IMHO. If you just happen to be looking for a particular pid, then put your wait() in a lopp. If you also happen to want to keep the unwanted ones around (should you want to wait for them in the future), record them in a list. The plan9 waitpid is a convenience for the case when you look for a pid but don't care about others. Thus, I wouldn't vote for changing the native interface; I'd just change ape, but only if posix says so. Otherwise I'd fix the program using ape. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 16 21:27:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 18:04:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1418c344_8f85_11d8_9a04_00304828b574_1994; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C883458E0 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13e6760a_8f85_11d8_9125_00304828b574_1990; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 563927580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDB67580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13a6c0b4_8f85_11d8_962d_00304828b574_1987; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9773458E0 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12f79986_8f85_11d8_8768_00304828b574_1984; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 531D019D94; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1AF919D94; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:04:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51D1219D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03E3419D1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3G93JD09644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:03:20 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <098cc449668fabc366ee4852e9cfbaff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:03:16 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The plan9 waitpid is a convenience for the case when you look for > a pid but don't care about others. Thus, I wouldn't vote for changing > the native interface; I'd just change ape, but only if posix says so. > Otherwise I'd fix the program using ape. I hope I'm not reading it wrong: P9 waitpid(2) is a stripped down version of wait(2) that returns only the "current" PID, no other details. It has nothing in common with Posix waitpid(). ++L From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 16 21:27:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 18:08:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3e87172_8f85_11d8_9b82_00304828b574_5370; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80D83458EE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a3b6cf82_8f85_11d8_8bf8_00304828b574_5367; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9A8557580FB; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A18B7580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a37c16ee_8f85_11d8_8a8c_00304828b574_5364; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7288E3458EE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2cbb7b8_8f85_11d8_82c2_00304828b574_5352; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E1FA419D2F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A8DA19D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A85219DBD; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7019E19D1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3G97lD09741 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:07:48 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:07:43 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > My question is, what does posix say regarding the pids > you don't want. I mean, does it say something like > > "when waitpid finds an unwanted pid it guarantees that such > information is not dropped" or the opposite, or just nothing about. The NetBSD man page is a bit ambiguous, but I think waitpid() and wait4() specifically wait for the given PID and no other. Remember that the child need not have terminated yet, so you may not want to return at all and carry on waiting even though other children have terminated (don't ask!). ++L From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 16 21:27:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 18:14:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7158c062_8f86_11d8_99c9_00304828b574_10214; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF37334417E for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70bb852c_8f86_11d8_832e_00304828b574_10206; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 614597580FB; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E31F7580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7060db0e_8f86_11d8_910e_00304828b574_10202; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:14:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C0234450A for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:13:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60bf9492_8f86_11d8_8904_00304828b574_9327; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:13:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEAFA19E52; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6544419E5C; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:13:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B02AA19DBD; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A675D19D2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3G9CQD10060 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:12:26 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:12:22 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The NetBSD man page is a bit ambiguous, but I think waitpid() and This might help: http://netbsd.gw.com/cgi-bin/man-cgi?wait+2+NetBSD-current ++L From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 16 21:27:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 20:12:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e18a5692_8f96_11d8_9481_00304828b574_17309; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520BE3444BC for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e097b284_8f96_11d8_9717_00304828b574_17296; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0F5297580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702287580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df78404e_8f96_11d8_99da_00304828b574_17281; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA963444BC for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb870f3e_8f96_11d8_8c32_00304828b574_17085; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:11:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1543A19AE9; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E4C5119D3E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:11:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3358A19A85; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 556FD19CE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e81f7ee7f9152d03fb4d66e06c9c882@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <098cc449668fabc366ee4852e9cfbaff@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dlzlwcyabpdyyyjbfaubstdcbe" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:10:23 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dlzlwcyabpdyyyjbfaubstdcbe Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry. I meant the bsd waitpid and not the plan 9 waitpid. --upas-dlzlwcyabpdyyyjbfaubstdcbe Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 16 11:04:25 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C40F619D8D; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C040419D1F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:04:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 51D1219D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (beam.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03E3419D1B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3G93JD09644 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:03:20 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <098cc449668fabc366ee4852e9cfbaff@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:03:16 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The plan9 waitpid is a convenience for the case when you look for > a pid but don't care about others. Thus, I wouldn't vote for changing > the native interface; I'd just change ape, but only if posix says so. > Otherwise I'd fix the program using ape. I hope I'm not reading it wrong: P9 waitpid(2) is a stripped down version of wait(2) that returns only the "current" PID, no other details. It has nothing in common with Posix waitpid(). ++L --upas-dlzlwcyabpdyyyjbfaubstdcbe-- From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 21:27:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 20:41:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03fe765a_8f9b_11d8_9ab9_00304828b574_9787; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA413459F1 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03c9ca68_8f9b_11d8_8025_00304828b574_9784; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 475C87580FB; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22D97580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 038fe460_8f9b_11d8_99cc_00304828b574_9778; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139B73459F1 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02e642c0_8f9b_11d8_90b8_00304828b574_9772; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:41:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C7D519D76; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 28F4D19D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:41:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD80D19D2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A177819C0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 985B9573D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:39:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <036c01c423a7$21a3f3c0$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:36:38 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > So the big question is whether it is entirely out of the question to > enhance the kernel "wait" functionality so that something resembling > Posix waitpid() can return the termination information for a chosen > PID. don't do it in kernel mode. do it in user mode. just record the pid + Waitmsg of the ones that wait has returned and search this first and if not found go into a wait loop, recording the pid + Waitmsg as wait returns if it's not the one you want, otherwise return. The Waitmsg structure is allocated by malloc(2) and should be freed after use. For programs that only need the pid of the exiting program, waitpid returns just the pid and discards the rest of the information. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/wait From lucio@proxima.alt.za Fri Apr 16 21:27:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 20:56:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13b7d8aa_8f9d_11d8_8318_00304828b574_25072; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB823441B0 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 138761d4_8f9d_11d8_8fcc_00304828b574_25067; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6B09A7580FB; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3C9758107 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1163cae6_8f9d_11d8_9460_00304828b574_25043; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:56:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26283445EE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:47:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5d8fc4a_8f9b_11d8_817f_00304828b574_15393; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:47:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 983B519E08; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B433B19CE1; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7C4319E13; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F45719E07 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3GBkXD16860 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:46:33 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <036c01c423a7$21a3f3c0$57d87d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:46:28 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > don't do it in kernel mode. do it in user mode. just record the > pid + Waitmsg of the ones that wait has returned and search > this first and if not found go into a wait loop, recording the > pid + Waitmsg as wait returns if it's not the one you want, > otherwise return. Hm, I thought it couldn't be done, but the above makes sense. Now if I just had rob's skills with linked lists... I'll report back. ++L From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 16 21:27:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 16 21:05:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5cd4522e_8f9e_11d8_8c76_00304828b574_2506; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3653445F8 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c9ef43a_8f9e_11d8_9031_00304828b574_2503; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CB6BE7580FA; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836C77580F9 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c6816fe_8f9e_11d8_9fb5_00304828b574_2500; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99EDB3445F8 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5bbd7406_8f9e_11d8_99f3_00304828b574_2497; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:05:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF77919C69; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EA3F19C69; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC96319C69; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AABCF19BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EFE03575CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:04:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <03be01c423aa$85426530$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:01:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Hm, I thought it couldn't be done, but the above makes sense. Now if well i thought i'd coded it before. look at pipe.c: http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/mace.bundle 1st Ed, 2 day rush job port done in 1994. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Sat Apr 17 16:04:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 17 01:48:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id edd3d336_8fc5_11d8_8f77_00304828b574_19658; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421BB344F16 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed75d6aa_8fc5_11d8_84d0_00304828b574_19655; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2ACDA7580FA; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA227580F9 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed0a9ce6_8fc5_11d8_8106_00304828b574_19652; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185C7344F16 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec0c0208_8fc5_11d8_8f46_00304828b574_19643; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC1B919E3A; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24B6719E2D; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:48:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3091619E2B; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3683D19BC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3GGl4D27993 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:47:07 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <03be01c423aa$85426530$57d87d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gqsuhdebffrzuokhpurranldze" X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:47:00 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gqsuhdebffrzuokhpurranldze Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > well i thought i'd coded it before. > > look at pipe.c: Thanks, Boyd, for the guidelines and also to Nemo for suggesting a similar tack in previous private mail. I have no idea whether this is adequate, but it matches some superficial expectations, at least. I'm including my efforts here because I'm going away for the weekend and somebody may have the opportunity in the meantime to look at the code and use it, but more specially to inspect it and hopefully make suggestions on how to improve it (other than in code layout, I have a great deal of trouble omitting spaces as seems to be the norm in Plan 9 sources, sorry about that). I'll be grateful for all and any feedback, please be alerted that the code is designed for use in the APE environment, modelled on the NetBSD wait(2) man page I mentioned earlier. It is intended to replace /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/wait.c in its entirety, but I have not checked this to any degree. The module compiles and runs with $ pcc -D_PLAN9_SOURCE -D_POSIX_SOURCE -I/sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9 -c pidwait.c $ 8l -o pidwait pidwait.8 $ pidwait from my home directory. ++L --upas-gqsuhdebffrzuokhpurranldze Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=pidwait.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include "lib.h" #include #include #include #include #include #include #include "sys9.h" pid_t wait(int *status); pid_t waitpid(pid_t wpid, int *status, int options); pid_t wait3(int *status, int options, Waitmsg *waitmsg); pid_t wait4(pid_t wpid, int *status, int options, Waitmsg *waitmsg); /* ** PID cache */ typedef struct wdesc wdesc; struct wdesc { pid_t w_pid; Waitmsg *w_msg; wdesc *w_next; }; static wdesc *wd = 0; static Waitmsg * lookpid (pid_t pid) { wdesc **wp0 = &wd, *wp; Waitmsg *msg; printf ("PID+ %d ", pid); if (pid == -1) { if (wd == 0) return 0; pid = wd->w_pid; } for (wp = wd; wp; wp = wp->w_next) { printf ("looking: %d.", wp->w_pid); if (wp->w_pid == pid) { msg = wp->w_msg; *wp0 = wp->w_next; printf (" yes\n"); free (wp); return msg; } wp0 = &(wp->w_next); } printf (" no\n"); return 0; } static void addpid (Waitmsg *msg) { wdesc **wp0 = &wd, *wp = malloc (sizeof (wdesc)); printf ("ADD: %d\n", msg->pid); wp->w_msg = msg; wp->w_pid = msg->pid; wp->w_next = wd; wd = wp; } pid_t wait (int *status) { return wait4(-1, status, 0, 0); } pid_t waitpid (pid_t wpid, int *status, int options) { return wait4(wpid, status, options, 0); } pid_t wait3 (int *status, int options, Waitmsg *waitmsg) { return wait4(-1, status, options, waitmsg); } pid_t wait4 (pid_t wpid, int *status, int options, Waitmsg *waitmsg) { Waitmsg *w; if (options & WNOHANG) { char pname[128]; int i; struct stat buf; snprintf (pname, sizeof (pname), "/proc/%d/wait", getpid()); i = stat (pname, &buf); if (i >= 0 && buf.st_size == 0) return 0; } if (w = lookpid (wpid)) { waitmsg = w; wpid = w->pid; return wpid; } w = _WAIT(); while (w) { if (wpid <= 0) { waitmsg = w; wpid = w->pid; return wpid; } if (w->pid == wpid) { if (status) { int r = 0; int t = 0; char *bp, *ep; if (w->msg[0]) { /* message is 'prog pid:string' */ bp = w->msg; while (*bp) { if (*bp++ == ':') break; } if (*bp == 0) bp = w->msg; r = strtol (bp, &ep, 10); if (*ep == 0) { if (r < 0 || r >= 256) r = 1; } else { t = _stringsig (bp); if (t == 0) r = 1; } } *status = (r << 8) | t; } waitmsg = w; wpid = w->pid; return wpid; } else { addpid (w); } w = _WAIT(); } if (w == 0) { _syserrno (); } } #define N (5) main () { int x, status; pid_t p, pid[N]; Waitmsg waitmsg; for (x = 0; x < N; x++) { switch (pid[x] = fork()) { case 0: sleep (5); exit (0); case -1: _syserrno (); break; default: sleep (3); break; } printf ("ID[%d]: %d\n", x, pid[x]); } for (x = 0; x < N; x++) { if (p = wait4 (pid[x], &status, 0, &waitmsg)) printf ("PID[%d]: %d\n", x, p); } } --upas-gqsuhdebffrzuokhpurranldze-- From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 17 16:04:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 17 02:14:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88a80ce4_8fc9_11d8_89ae_00304828b574_7318; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87B3345BA6 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8877e258_8fc9_11d8_83bc_00304828b574_7315; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AB6897580FA; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C947580F9 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88384134_8fc9_11d8_80f0_00304828b574_7312; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B27C345BA6 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8790695a_8fc9_11d8_92f3_00304828b574_7309; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A12BF19E51; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CB5719E42; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2400C19E3E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03B4419E3B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.216.87]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 025243789A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:13:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <046e01c423d5$c5cf2630$57d87d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:10:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Thanks, Boyd, for the guidelines and also to Nemo for suggesting a > similar tack in previous private mail. i could of used a list but NOFILE was small when i wrote the original, so an array more than sufficed. wait4() -- therein lies madness. From a@9srv.net Mon Apr 19 20:30:14 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 06:08:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9b3a6460_917c_11d8_84f3_00304828b574_2289; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F17D1344221 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9afa4416_917c_11d8_902c_00304828b574_2281; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7683275810B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B1775810A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 98c02a12_917c_11d8_917f_00304828b574_2253; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:08:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DF53442F8 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff34b8c2_917b_11d8_86d2_00304828b574_29947; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D27111A106; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5104F1A0F6; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:04:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C69019D3C; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 786C119CAC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <586bf256f1df583dd0cc69d6f980e549@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: [9fans] comm but within files? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:59:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable does a program similar to comm for finding similar sections of a file exist that looks for similar sections of a single file (or the conccatination of several)? something to aid in identifing likely targets for librarization (what?). =E3=82=A2 From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 19 20:30:15 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 06:29:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c81e34c_917f_11d8_99b1_00304828b574_19123; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2157344ADF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c459040_917f_11d8_8f0f_00304828b574_19120; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CD9F57580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804B37580FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c086864_917f_11d8_80be_00304828b574_19117; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986F2344ADF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b4c7fdc_917f_11d8_85fb_00304828b574_19111; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 502F81A113; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 09BA01A10A; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:29:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACDBF1A108; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6C7E11A103 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B8E505762A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <022301c4258b$8b45dd30$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <586bf256f1df583dd0cc69d6f980e549@9srv.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] comm but within files? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:24:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: this is not exactly what you want, but it might be usable basis: http://www.insultant.net/repo/vidi.html http://www.insultant.net/repo/plan9/vidi you just need to invert the output. From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:16 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 07:30:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 027c6cf8_9188_11d8_86f3_00304828b574_6367; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98EB3441BC for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 024c7eb2_9188_11d8_89f2_00304828b574_6363; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B2846758104; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB587580FB for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffce8860_9187_11d8_9d3a_00304828b574_6325; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:30:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD17344905 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7293ad68_9187_11d8_9cfa_00304828b574_1826; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2192C19C75; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6251519C75; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:26:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9170519C81; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3A06719C73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so112cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.32 with SMTP id x32mr3485cwb; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1126B519.7E343430@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] comm but within files? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <586bf256f1df583dd0cc69d6f980e549@9srv.net> <022301c4258b$8b45dd30$0fca7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: brenda baker wrote a nice program called dup that did exactly this. the theory behind it is published but the source code, sadly, is not. http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/bsb/research.html russ From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:16 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 07:37:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd775276_9188_11d8_9f78_00304828b574_12288; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F89344902 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fcf45dee_9188_11d8_8bec_00304828b574_12285; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2D7A97580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CAB7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc66f30a_9188_11d8_8088_00304828b574_12282; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2D0344902 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb4a1358_9188_11d8_899e_00304828b574_12279; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC7E919EA3; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4508E19C75; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:37:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05EBB19C80; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paris.quintile.net (cpc2-sout4-6-0-cust223.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.111.117.223]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BA03F19C75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep" Subject: [9fans] protocol botch Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:36:06 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Still struggling with authentication. I am trying to get a terminal to network boot from a signge cpu/fossil/auth server. this now fails with (from memory) auth_proxy rcp write: write fd: file not found Just to test the configuration I tried booting the terminal from its local factotum and try to authenticate. auth/debug is quite happy, its tests for my steve and bootes work fine. but: paris% cpu -h felix cpu: can't authenticate: felix: auth_proxy rpc write: cpu: srvauth:: auth server protocol botch also (this one is from memory) paris% telnet felix challange: 838323 response: 983Fe7302 !auth server protocol botch I copied my factotum contents and ndb/local between the machines (via secstore), so they are definitely in sync. I turned on factotum's debug on paris (the terminal) but its not clear to me what is going wrong. I have tried authenticating between terminals (comp.os.plan9 passim) and always found that when auth/debug is happy auth just works; This one seems different. I searched the archives and got pointers to the authdom being different on the two machines, but I checked this very carefully, the /lib/ndb/local is the same, and even trying xd /dev/sd00/nvram to double check. I have spent many hours on this and cannot find the problem (sigh). Sorry to be dumb, -Steve --upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=factotum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit key proto=p9sk1 dom=home.mydom.net user=steve !password=xxxxxxx --upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=factotum.debug Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 11: start proto=p9any role=client yields phase CNeedProtos: ok 11: read 4093 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CNeedProtos: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedProtos 11: write 0 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CNeedProtos: toosmall 2048 11: start proto=p9sk1 role=client dom=home.mydom.net yields phase CHaveChal: ok 11: write 19 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CHaveProto: ok 11: read 19 in phase CHaveProto yields phase CRelay: ok 11: read 8 in phase CHaveChal yields phase CNeedTreq: ok 11: read 8 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 11: read 4093 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CNeedTreq: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedTreq 11: read 4093 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedTreq 11: write 0 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CNeedTreq: toosmall 141 11: write 0 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: toosmall 141 11: write 141 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CHaveTicket: ok 11: write 141 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 11: read 85 in phase CHaveTicket yields phase CNeedAuth: ok 11: read 85 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 11: read 4093 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedAuth 11: read 4093 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedAuth 11: write 0 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: toosmall 13 11: write 0 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: toosmall 13 11: failure auth server protocol botch 11: write 13 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: failure auth server protocol botch 11: write 13 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: failure auth server protocol botch --upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=local Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # # network database # # to force this file to be re-read type # !echo -n refresh >/net/cs ip=127.0.0.1 sys=localhost dom=localhost database= file=/lib/ndb/local file=/lib/ndb/common # laptop sys=paris ether=0020af8d6140 ip=192.168.0.3 authdom=home.mydom.net dom=paris.mydom.net bootf=/386/9pc.gz # home server sys=felix ether=00609765ed59 ip=192.168.0.5 authdom=home.mydom.net dom=felix.mydom.net # home, inside firewall ipnet=home ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=192.168.0.1 # dns=194.168.4.100 dns=194.168.8.100 # dnsdomain=mydom.net pop3=webmail.snellwilcox.com smtp=smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com authdom=home.mydom.net nntp=news.ntlworld.com ntp=gb.public.ntp.get-time.net fs=192.168.0.5 cpu=192.168.0.5 auth=192.168.0.5 auth=felix authdom=home.mydom.net --upas-ytcqiedjvupagcdqzxytrgkrep-- From forsyth@terzarima.net Mon Apr 19 20:30:16 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 07:40:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68567536_9189_11d8_8c29_00304828b574_14511; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81CC344923 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67e3c252_9189_11d8_8f68_00304828b574_14508; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8FE227580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83527580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6753e1d2_9189_11d8_967f_00304828b574_14504; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232EF344923 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 663f6c4e_9189_11d8_9f0c_00304828b574_14498; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4970919EB4; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EDED719C99; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9A5B519C7E; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9B8719C75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91f9bed3f75a3cb6af665bcf3fb6eb5d@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] comm but within files? From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <1126B519.7E343430@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wjnlsmqsdaeggmvgdvkbzrwhjr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:41:45 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wjnlsmqsdaeggmvgdvkbzrwhjr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there is a program called sim that was published on Usenet many years ago that looks for similarities within files. i'm fairly sure i've made a Plan 9 port available somewhere. --upas-wjnlsmqsdaeggmvgdvkbzrwhjr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Sun Apr 18 23:25:53 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A349019C80; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B9F519C75; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:26:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9170519C81; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 3A06719C73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so112cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.32 with SMTP id x32mr3485cwb; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1126B519.7E343430@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] comm but within files? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <586bf256f1df583dd0cc69d6f980e549@9srv.net> <022301c4258b$8b45dd30$0fca7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:25:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: brenda baker wrote a nice program called dup that did exactly this. the theory behind it is published but the source code, sadly, is not. http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/bsb/research.html russ --upas-wjnlsmqsdaeggmvgdvkbzrwhjr-- From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:17 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 07:58:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d79793b0_918b_11d8_84ec_00304828b574_28883; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:58:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9651134422B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:58:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d74d930a_918b_11d8_90cc_00304828b574_28862; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:58:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 651197580FE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:57:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5057580FF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:57:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4884c28_918b_11d8_8f93_00304828b574_28708; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:57:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849DE34422B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:56:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a5129494_918b_11d8_92ff_00304828b574_27450; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:56:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9616E19C75; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6FCF19C7E; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:56:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F275119C7E; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AC16C19C75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so131cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.72 with SMTP id x72mr3603cwb; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <114AE5BD.57FDA837@mail.gmail.com> From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] protocol botch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:55:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Have you run auth/debug on both machines? What are paris and felix? Assuming one is the terminal, how is it that you have a prompt if you cannot boot the terminal? Russ From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 08:41:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb788d16_9191_11d8_8d5c_00304828b574_31128; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE56344D88 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb47e38c_9191_11d8_9c10_00304828b574_31125; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F057E7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97CD7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb087134_9191_11d8_95c8_00304828b574_31120; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C363D344D88 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea617690_9191_11d8_9ccb_00304828b574_31117; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:41:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3AD119DBA; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 93E1719C6A; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 975AB19C6B; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paris.quintile.net (cpc2-sout4-6-0-cust223.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.111.117.223]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55F0319C2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4009fbe836fa996d0157f83b1da6775f@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] protocol botch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:40:38 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, Russ, as I couldn't get the terminal (paris) to network boot I loaded the distribution onto it and booted it as a standalone terminal. Thus I could run auth/debug on the paris against the fileserver (felix). Felix is a PIII 650 with scsi disks, paris is my venerable NEC Versa SX. Andrey, I saw your previous posts about "protocol botch" but as the authdom specified in the nvram is definitely the sam as the one in /lib/ndb/local, bowth machines have their authdom set explicitly (in the sys= line in /lib/ndb/local), and the /lib/ndb/local on the two machines is a copy of the same file, I think I have covered that; unless you know different? Sorry, still stumpped. I shall check I start listen after keyfs (and post a copy of my cpurc) tomorrow. -Steve From ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Mon Apr 19 20:30:20 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 11:05:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10dfd05a_91a6_11d8_9318_00304828b574_28850; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB5C7344EE0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10aa9a66_91a6_11d8_8630_00304828b574_28847; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A84E37580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616687580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10726056_91a6_11d8_92e1_00304828b574_28844; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA79344EE0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fc3931e_91a6_11d8_97bc_00304828b574_28841; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 377F619F47; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1053119D0C; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:05:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2306B19CF4; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ob1.cmich.edu (ob1.cmich.edu [141.209.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBC7F19AB9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by ob1.cmich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3J228Ik029495 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:02:11 -0400 Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6992782 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:04:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-Spam-Score: -0.9 () X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Subject: [9fans] Russ's plan9.tar.gz question.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:57:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The system is Linux Mandrake-9.1. I downloaded, installed plan9.tar.gz in /usr/local/plan9 Set up the environments for PLAN9 and PATH [ export PLAN9=/usr/local/plan9 export PATH=$PATH:$PLAN9/bin ] but 9l produces an error (shown below). How to fix it? -ishwar --- $ 9c x.c $ 9l x.o /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/3.2.2/../../../crt1.o(.text+0x18): In function `_start': : undefined reference to `main' x.o(.text+0xc): In function `p9main': /local/users/ishwar/x.c:7: undefined reference to `print' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status --source-- #include #include void main(void) { print("Hello, world\n"); } From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:20 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 11:30:07 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78eb0de2_91a9_11d8_84cd_00304828b574_20770; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C83344A27 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78b6db1c_91a9_11d8_8356_00304828b574_20764; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E68897580F9; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7851D758105 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 762232a2_91a9_11d8_9640_00304828b574_20333; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:30:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BAD5344A22 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:22:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66be6430_91a8_11d8_96c4_00304828b574_12369; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:22:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E0D519BCE; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 269E919BDA; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:22:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 640F919AEE; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.251]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2E89319A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so587cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.13 with SMTP id u13mr4519cwc; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Russ's plan9.tar.gz question.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:21:07 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Run 9l x.o -l9. See the "Writing Programs" section of /usr/local/plan9/NOTES for more info. Russ From lucio@proxima.alt.za Mon Apr 19 20:30:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 15:38:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37eed882_91cc_11d8_9b0c_00304828b574_11365; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E693442C0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37b4e730_91cc_11d8_825d_00304828b574_11362; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4C873758121; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46126758107 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 297d1b42_91cc_11d8_828e_00304828b574_11133; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7F0344240 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51bcf416_91cb_11d8_8a70_00304828b574_4343; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:32:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88A5B19CB6; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F19119CB6; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61A9219C90; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FF3819BCB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3J6V1D10429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:31:05 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] waitpid() Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <046e01c423d5$c5cf2630$57d87d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:30:55 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > wait4() -- therein lies madness. Probably, but it is merely a generalisation. I doubt it is used much directly and it does not defeat the original intentions. Pity about the name, really. ++L From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 17:31:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef4fc888_91db_11d8_8f82_00304828b574_14547; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1276F345505 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee625c38_91db_11d8_88b5_00304828b574_14536; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F29357580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B067580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed712e26_91db_11d8_963e_00304828b574_14532; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2E5345505 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebf21b78_91db_11d8_9f1a_00304828b574_14523; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5413319D5D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2D6819FB3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:30:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8880519CBC; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paris.quintile.net (cpc2-sout4-6-0-cust223.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.111.117.223]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B28F19CFB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6ff137bc8218a00cb469b5040c10c62b@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq" Subject: [9fans] (no subject) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:29:04 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, To reiterate, I am just trying to boot a terminal (paris) from a cpu/auth/file server (felix). I get an authentication failure on startup, though everything up to secstore works fine. To debug this I put a copy of the distribution on the terminal and booted that standalone. I used auth/debug to check authenticatioon is set up properly; it is happy (see auth-debug.out). I then tried to use cpu(1) to attach to the file server (see cpu.out) and its fails. I have enabled factotum debug at both ends and included the logs of these also. plan9.ini, local, and cpurc are the files from the server felix, factotum is an extract from my secstore factotum file. I don't understand how cpu can fail when auth/debug succeeds. what have I missed? -Steve --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=auth-debug.out Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit p9sk1 key: proto=p9sk1 dom=home.mydom.net user=steve !password? successfully dialed auth server password for steve@home.mydom.net [hit enter to skip test]: ticket request using steve@home.mydom.net key succeeded cpu server owner for domain home.mydom.net [bootes]: password for bootes@home.mydom.net [hit enter to skip test]: ticket request using bootes@home.mydom.net key succeeded --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=cpu.out Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cpu: can't authenticate: felix: auth_proxy rpc write: cpu: srvauth:: auth server protocol botch --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=cpurc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #!/bin/rc echo -n cpu > /env/service date > /env/boottime # replace FILESERVER with the name of your file server # here we start with kfs, your local disk file system fileserver=felix # replace FACEDOM with the local domain to be used in the faces database facedom=FACEDOM ip/ipconfig -N ether /net/ether0 add ip/ipconfig loopback /dev/null 127.1 # mount points mntgen -s slashn && chmod 666 /srv/slashn # name translation, cs sets /dev/sysname ndb/cs sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname} ndb/dns -r # parallelism for mk NPROC=`{wc -l /dev/sysstat} NPROC=`{echo $NPROC|sed 's/ .*//'} prompt=($sysname^'# ' ' ') # pick a timeserver closer to you when you can or we'll get clogged aux/timesync -n # uncomment the following for booting other systems ip/dhcpd ip/tftpd # If you are on an auth server, start these before listening: # auth/keyfs -wp -m /mnt/keys /adm/keys auth/cron >>/sys/log/cron auth/secstored # services available to networks aux/listen -q -t /rc/bin/service.auth -d /rc/bin/service tcp aux/listen -q -t /rc/bin/service.auth -d /rc/bin/service il for(i in m) /bin/bind -a '#'^$i /dev bind -b $home/bin/rc /bin --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=factotum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit key proto=p9sk1 dom=home.mydom.net user=steve !password=xxxxxxx --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=local Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # # network database # # to force this file to be re-read type # !echo -n refresh >/net/cs ip=127.0.0.1 sys=localhost dom=localhost database= file=/lib/ndb/local file=/lib/ndb/common # laptop sys=paris ether=0020af8d6140 ip=192.168.0.3 authdom=home.mydom.net dom=paris.mydom.net bootf=/386/9pc.gz # home server sys=felix ether=00609765ed59 ip=192.168.0.5 authdom=home.mydom.net dom=felix.mydom.net # home, inside firewall ipnet=home ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=192.168.0.1 # dns=194.168.4.100 dns=194.168.8.100 # dnsdomain=mydom.net pop3=webmail.snellwilcox.com smtp=smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com authdom=home.mydom.net nntp=news.ntlworld.com ntp=gb.public.ntp.get-time.net fs=192.168.0.5 cpu=192.168.0.5 auth=192.168.0.5 auth=felix authdom=home.mydom.net --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=plan9.ini Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [menu] menuitem=terminal menuitem=server menudefault=server,5 [terminal] bootfile=sd00!9fat!9pcf venti=#S/sd06/arenas0 [server] venti=#S/sd06/arenas0 bootfile=sd00!9fat!9pccpuf nobootprompt=local!#S/sd00/fossil [common] *nomp=1 vgasize=640x480x8 monitor=multisync110 mouseport=ps2 distname=plan9 ether0=type=elnk3 media=10BaseT scsi0=type=ncr53c8xx bootargs=local!#S/sd00/fossil bootdisk=local!#S/sd00/fossil --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=felix.fact.debug Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1: start proto=p9any role=server yields phase SHaveProtos: ok 1: no key matches proto=p9sk1 role=server dom? 1: failure no key matches proto=p9sk1 role=server dom? 1: read 24 in phase SHaveProtos yields phase SNeedProto: ok 1: read 4093 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: phase: protocol phase error: read in state SNeedProto 1: write 0 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 1 1: write 1 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 2 1: write 2 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 3 1: write 3 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 4 1: write 4 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 5 1: write 5 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 6 1: write 6 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 7 1: write 7 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 8 1: write 8 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 9 1: write 9 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 10 1: write 10 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 11 1: write 11 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 12 1: write 12 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 13 1: write 13 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 14 1: write 14 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 15 1: write 15 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 16 1: write 16 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 17 1: write 17 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 18 1: write 18 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 19 1: write 19 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 20 1: write 20 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 21 1: write 21 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 22 1: write 22 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 23 1: write 23 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SNeedProto: toosmall 24 1: write 24 in phase SNeedProto yields phase SRelay: ok 1: read 4093 in phase SNeedChal yields phase SNeedChal: phase: protocol phase error: read in state SNeedChal 1: read 4093 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state SNeedChal 1: write 0 in phase SNeedChal yields phase SNeedChal: toosmall 8 1: write 0 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: toosmall 8 1: write 8 in phase SNeedChal yields phase SHaveTreq: ok 1: write 8 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: ok 1: read 141 in phase SHaveTreq yields phase SNeedTicket: ok 1: read 141 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: ok 1: read 4093 in phase SNeedTicket yields phase SNeedTicket: phase: protocol phase error: read in state SNeedTicket 1: read 4093 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state SNeedTicket 1: write 0 in phase SNeedTicket yields phase SNeedTicket: toosmall 85 1: write 0 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: toosmall 85 1: failure auth server protocol botch 1: write 85 in phase SNeedTicket yields phase SNeedTicket: failure auth server protocol botch 1: write 85 in phase SRelay yields phase SRelay: failure auth server protocol botch 9fat: --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=paris.fact.debug Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit paris% cat /dev/kprint 1: start proto=p9any role=client yields phase CNeedProtos: ok 1: read 4093 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CNeedProtos: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedProtos 1: write 0 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CNeedProtos: toosmall 2048 1: start proto=p9sk1 role=client dom=home.mydom.net yields phase CHaveChal: ok 1: write 24 in phase CNeedProtos yields phase CHaveProto: ok 1: read 24 in phase CHaveProto yields phase CRelay: ok 1: read 8 in phase CHaveChal yields phase CNeedTreq: ok 1: read 8 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 1: read 4093 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CNeedTreq: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedTreq 1: read 4093 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedTreq 1: write 0 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CNeedTreq: toosmall 141 1: write 0 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: toosmall 141 1: write 141 in phase CNeedTreq yields phase CHaveTicket: ok 1: write 141 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 1: read 85 in phase CHaveTicket yields phase CNeedAuth: ok 1: read 85 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: ok 1: read 4093 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedAuth 1: read 4093 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: phase: protocol phase error: read in state CNeedAuth 1: write 0 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: toosmall 13 1: write 0 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: toosmall 13 1: failure auth server protocol botch 1: write 13 in phase CNeedAuth yields phase CNeedAuth: failure auth server protocol botch 1: write 13 in phase CRelay yields phase CRelay: failure auth server protocol botch --upas-koupwcumfhpyphfwrozfoyxdxq-- From wmcreq@microsoft.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 17:53:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 119c7852_91df_11d8_9409_00304828b574_1101; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AD53455A6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10aba0b2_91df_11d8_9f6e_00304828b574_1086; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4DE63758104; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F367580FE for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1004dd54_91df_11d8_9840_00304828b574_1077; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1493455A6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e8e5892_91df_11d8_9933_00304828b574_1057; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:53:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70DCA1A004; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4C27419FB3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5962F19F2B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cse.psu.edu (81-208-74-180.fastres.net [81.208.74.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AFB3719F47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:51:57 -0400 (EDT) From: wmcreq@microsoft.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="31061463" Message-Id: <20040419085157.AFB3719F47@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [Virus Delete] :[9fans] warning Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:56:58 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --31061463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here, the introduction --31061463-- From fgergo@eik.bme.hu Mon Apr 19 20:30:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 17:54:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2c074e4c_91df_11d8_9239_00304828b574_2000; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9282A3455A9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2bcc1bd8_91df_11d8_941b_00304828b574_1997; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F3177580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FEC7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b00fef8_91df_11d8_8ced_00304828b574_1993; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D9C3455A9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a58da2a_91df_11d8_99c3_00304828b574_1990; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C1201A036; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C10BA19FE7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04AFD19FE7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from riddler.networkers.com.au (riddler.networkers.com.au [203.94.144.65]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6965819FB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debug ([203.94.144.67]) by riddler.networkers.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i3J81dM19447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:01:41 +1000 Message-Id: <200404190801.i3J81dM19447@riddler.networkers.com.au> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: fgergo@eik.bme.hu Subject: Re: [9fans] comm but within files? X-Posting-IP: 213.253.194.6 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.2.9 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:36:46 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: google (sim forsyth plan9) reveals: http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/ > there is a program called sim that was published on Usenet > many years ago that looks for similarities within files. > i'm fairly sure i've made a Plan 9 port available somewhere. > --------------------------------------------- Message sent using http://www.mail2web.com.au From eliz@is.elta.co.il Mon Apr 19 20:30:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 18:05:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb48704e_91e0_11d8_9354_00304828b574_10787; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710993455DB for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb1112a2_91e0_11d8_883b_00304828b574_10783; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5DF877580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4CB7580FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id badcd8d4_91e0_11d8_83fe_00304828b574_10778; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7133455DB for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9db2b0c_91e0_11d8_98fe_00304828b574_10771; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C33EA1A019; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6FAFB19F47; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:05:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B67019C9C; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cse.psu.edu (81-208-74-180.fastres.net [81.208.74.180]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id EAA7819A0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:04:29 -0400 (EDT) From: eliz@is.elta.co.il To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="50841264" Message-Id: <20040419090429.EAA7819A0C@mail.cse.psu.edu> Subject: [Virus Delete] :[9fans] warning Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:09:30 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --50841264 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kill the writer of this document! --50841264-- From tom@insolvencyhelp.org Mon Apr 19 20:30:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:12:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1528411c_91ea_11d8_809b_00304828b574_5265; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966D5345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14e174f8_91ea_11d8_86c4_00304828b574_5261; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 839227580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B6B7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14ae5a28_91ea_11d8_85b9_00304828b574_5256; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CCE345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13fff668_91ea_11d8_9c22_00304828b574_5252; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 401761A028; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 091B019F2B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F7F519F47; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B214E19F2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdB-0006nJ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Tom Miller Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Subject: [9fans] plan9 host? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:38 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, My web hosting contract is up for renewal and I wonder if anybody wants to host my low traffic site and email on plan9. Would anybody who might be interested please contact me by private email? Thanks, Tom From jjk3@msstate.edu Mon Apr 19 20:30:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:12:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e7fa4c6_91ea_11d8_9fef_00304828b574_5298; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544A3345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e41872c_91ea_11d8_842c_00304828b574_5293; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 415FE7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6B07580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e089bc4_91ea_11d8_9725_00304828b574_5290; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E06345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d60d84e_91ea_11d8_8ae4_00304828b574_5286; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AE3101A071; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36B391A05F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52A521A036; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC87A19FDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdC-0006nP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Joel Konkle-Parker Message-ID: <196f381b.0404091423.53b0b231@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:50 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can Plan 9 be used successfully on a personal desktop, as a replacement for, say, Windows or Linux? Or are its design goals and implementation incompatible with that sort of use? --=20 Joel Konkle-Parker Webmaster [Ballsome.com] E-mail [jjk3@msstate.edu] From apm-junk@cifrid.net Mon Apr 19 20:30:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:13:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2461818e_91ea_11d8_8b74_00304828b574_5558; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CEFD345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2428cf06_91ea_11d8_9964_00304828b574_5555; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 27C267580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55817580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 23db1658_91ea_11d8_9f39_00304828b574_5484; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87B7345680 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2330368e_91ea_11d8_9e80_00304828b574_5404; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8ACE91A08D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF0F21A06F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 878C819FF0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2C0C1A019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdv-0006oZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86ptadl3oe.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:04:18 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm trying to setup a mirror as described in "Setting up Fossil" (section: USING A MIRROR WITH FOSSIL). Because there is no fs(3) compiled into the kernel by default I added it ('fs') to a 'dev' section and built a new kernel. I get panic when booting up using this kernel. Any help appreciated, Artur -- // WWW: artur.black.pl // PGP: finger apm%acrux.cifrid.net // From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:13:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 314b31d8_91ea_11d8_834c_00304828b574_6066; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3170345686 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31150112_91ea_11d8_8d02_00304828b574_6063; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D02A77580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DF17580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30dd348a_91ea_11d8_8c38_00304828b574_6060; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0867345686 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3034471c_91ea_11d8_99dc_00304828b574_6056; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4AB9D1A095; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 175EC1A019; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 92C1719FE7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A0EF19FDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdv-0006of-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <333e801f4f848cb3eadf4c91f713d224@snellwilcox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:04:32 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Steve Simon wrote: >>if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. >>a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc could be the ''trip'' test that >>comes with byrons rc. > > > I'am afraid Byron made some changes from (the one true ?) rc, > some of these changes where usefull, some just taste but the bottom line > is that trip.rc will not run under plan9 rc without a lot or work. if the unix port of plan9 rc had been very unstable (something i prematurely thought was the case when mr cox did not want to use rc as the shell for mk) trip.rc might have been a _starting point_ for testing plan9 rc. since then mr cox has explained that there are only a few problems (with process groups and backgrounded processes and interrupt notes) left with the unix port of plan9 rc this is not so interesting any more. although i would suggest that a test suite is always a good thing. bengt From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:13:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dc8585a_91ea_11d8_8652_00304828b574_6094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E7D34568A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d92fa84_91ea_11d8_8889_00304828b574_6091; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C565E7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B5F7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d53114e_91ea_11d8_8923_00304828b574_6088; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2C234568A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c851bd6_91ea_11d8_8228_00304828b574_6085; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:13:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D1881A065; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 308BF1A019; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBB0B1A028; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1E17619F2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdv-0006ol-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <406D7906.3030701@swtch.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:04:44 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Russ Cox wrote: > >> i would conjecture that we have not one, but two ''mk''. >> one from mk-20040301.tgz that is of interest to a unix user that wants >> a new ''make'', but is not interested in plan9. this mk does not need >> to use ''rc''. > > > > these are the same mk, built from the same sources. you are ofcourse correct. i was beeing very fuzzy in my writing here. i was not thinking of ''mk, the implementation'', but more of ''mk, the program the user interfaces too''. >> the other ''mk'' is the one in plan9-20040321.tar.gz. this mk will be >> used by someone interested in plan9. i belive that this mk should use >> rc. if rc is not stable enough it should be made stable enough. > > > > in an ideal world, where there is more time for such things. > it is slowly becoming stable enough. there is some funniness > with process groups and backgrounded processes and interrupt > notes that i have yet to work out, but otherwise it is now fine. is it ok to interpret this to mean that rc is good enough to be used as the shell in mk? >> since it is never a good idea to have different commands with the same >> name (provided we have the same context. in this case unix) i suggest >> that one of the two mk are renamed. the one to rename, imho, is the >> one that uses sh. possible names would be: smk, umk (or mks, mku). > > > > it's the same tool, just using a different shell. renaming it seems > quite weird. > should it read umkfile too? the last thing we need is for mk to bifurcate > into odd variants just like make has. i fully agree. it was this kind of problem that made me raise the question in the first place. i think mk using sh is an odd variant. i think of mk as using rc. this is also why i decided it would be best (for me) to penalise old mk-on-unix users (the ones already using sh). > there is historical precedent for mk on unix using sh. i'm not claiming it > should, just that it's not obviously wrong. > > there are non-plan 9 users who use mk on unix and expect it to use sh. > telling them that all of a sudden they have to rename their mkfiles and > start typing umk is odd. this is true. however, how large a user base is neccessary to stop progress in the name of backwards compatibility? > i have some ideas about how to solve the problem without splitting mk, > but at the moment it's not very high on my list. the number of recipes > i write that aren't simultaneously valid rc and valid sh is very small. a kitchen sink approach would be for mk to recognise sh or rc recipes, and handle them accordingly. another solution would be for mk to check for $PLAN9, and then use rc but mostly this would mean mkfiles that sometimes work, and sometimes does not work. we could call mk-with-rc for rmk, mk9, ... or use ''mk -r[c]''. i will use mk instead of make, even if you decide to keep sh. bengt From saw@online.de Mon Apr 19 20:30:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:14:03 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4876aaae_91ea_11d8_9ce4_00304828b574_6381; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B1934568A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4837fcfa_91ea_11d8_8744_00304828b574_6347; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A206A7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB327580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47f43358_91ea_11d8_8fa2_00304828b574_6288; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E16A34568A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47359d1c_91ea_11d8_90c5_00304828b574_6198; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 758F51A06F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E68641A019; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:13:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8449C19F47; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C30D19FE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVib-0006ts-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:09:37 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sascha Wildner Message-ID: Organization: Yoyodyne Natural Born Configurators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:09:30 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, somehow my first post didn't get through... What mice do you guys use for p9? Is there a good optical 3 button mouse available somewhere (I don't mind if it has a cable). Sascha -- http://yoyodyne.ath.cx From komadori@myrealbox.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:14:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 534a5bd8_91ea_11d8_97e0_00304828b574_6845; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033D134568B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 531b3376_91ea_11d8_9114_00304828b574_6842; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DD1237580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9431E7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52dd28e2_91ea_11d8_88cf_00304828b574_6836; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD11F34568A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52359cbc_91ea_11d8_98cf_00304828b574_6833; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 340FA1A116; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DCE319F2B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93DC919FF0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3588119F2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVj7-0006uu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:10:09 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robin KAY Message-ID: <1081918264.2948.0@despina.uk.clara.net> Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de>, <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:09:42 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: andrey mirtchovski wrote: > Sascha Wildner wrote: > > > so which mice do you use? Does anyone know where I can buy an > > optical 3 button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. > > IBM has one for $25USD: I can't see properly from the picture. Is there a middle mouse button beyond the blue 'ScrollPoint' thing, or is the 'ScrollPoint' thing the middle button? How is to use? -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori) From y@onesixtythree.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:14:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5e02da14_91ea_11d8_8f84_00304828b574_6881; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D8134568B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5dd1b1be_91ea_11d8_90a3_00304828b574_6878; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D9B117580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8CA7580FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5d9436cc_91ea_11d8_89e7_00304828b574_6875; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A039C34568B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ce81950_91ea_11d8_97dc_00304828b574_6869; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43B2D19F47; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36C7F19F2B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4D5E19FDD; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FABA19F47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVj7-0006v0-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:10:09 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: yassine Message-ID: <2ae48a09.0404141140.edcce35@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:09:55 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3=20 > button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. A real 3-button one can be bought here:=20 http://www.contourdesign.com/pmo/ Yassine From saw@online.de Mon Apr 19 20:30:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:14:55 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6782d6ca_91ea_11d8_9f90_00304828b574_6917; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FCC345690 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6722f156_91ea_11d8_8d60_00304828b574_6914; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 80E8C7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB517580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66e9d81c_91ea_11d8_8d4c_00304828b574_6911; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F1D345690 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6641d9fa_91ea_11d8_8666_00304828b574_6907; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BA991A117; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9EED419FDD; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1DB419FEC; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5359C19FDD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdu-0006oT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:46 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sascha Wildner Message-ID: Organization: Yoyodyne Natural Born Configurators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 3 button mouse Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:04:08 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, so what mice are you people using for p9? Where do you buy a good optical three button mouse? I couldn't find one. I don't mind if it has a cable. Regards, Sascha -- http://yoyodyne.ath.cx From martin.wyser@inf.ethz.ch Mon Apr 19 20:30:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:27:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2de6ccb2_91ec_11d8_85bf_00304828b574_17360; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC9C3456EA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2db51b90_91ec_11d8_91bf_00304828b574_17357; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 259B77580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4E37580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d760a5e_91ec_11d8_9a1b_00304828b574_17352; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67AD3456EA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ccd8302_91ec_11d8_92df_00304828b574_17348; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DFD41A11C; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F420719BD4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D96B31A094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A8C451A10A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVnW-00071F-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Martin Wyser Message-ID: <407fd031$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Organization: ETHZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed References: <20040415093650.209d0af0.martin@parvat.com>, Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:14:11 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kenji Okamoto wrote: >=20 > I've never heard anyone else than boyd. =E2=98=BA >=20 > Kenji Add me now. There was the question of how constraining the current acme=20 interface is to non-chording users. For me, there is only one=20 constraint: when I saw that acme uses chording, I immediately and=20 definitely lost any interest into it. I do not see any reason to change=20 the code - I am happy with sam until I will get emacs or vi. Why I do not chord? I use Plan 9 for maybe an hour a week. Martin From chaotrope@jps.net Mon Apr 19 20:30:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:27:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3414cd5a_91ec_11d8_8bf9_00304828b574_17383; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958173456EC for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33e09210_91ec_11d8_977d_00304828b574_17380; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 818017580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2117580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33a744a6_91ec_11d8_832f_00304828b574_17377; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518D13456F0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32fc96fa_91ec_11d8_95d2_00304828b574_17369; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 55B491A11E; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47A191A11F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D223E1A116; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 766131A094 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVms-000702-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: kim kubik Message-ID: Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de>, <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:13:48 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: andrey mirtchovski wrote in message news:8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca... > > Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 > > button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. > IBM has one for $25USD: > http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=-8 40&langId=-1&partNumber=31P7405&storeId=1 > On that web page description of mouse, under "Features and Benefits" it reads: "No mechanical ball to get dusty, dirty or stolen." Stolen? STOLEN? Is there a big market for hot mouse balls? Guy comes home, finds window broken, laptop, printer, digital camera all still sitting there; tries to use computer, no response. Mouse ball is gone . . . a pink glove is laying by the pad. An alley downtown, swarthy guy in black trenchcoat, "psst, kid, lookit here: this is from a little old lady who only used her Mac for email on Sunday's . . ." From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:28:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c3a23a4_91ec_11d8_8f19_00304828b574_17399; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414503456F0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c042650_91ec_11d8_892e_00304828b574_17396; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2DCC97580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:01 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD297580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3bcbf780_91ec_11d8_9977_00304828b574_17393; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F348E3456F0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:27:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b239d9c_91ec_11d8_8328_00304828b574_17390; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:28:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 770E61A10A; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 636E71A11D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:27:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFFD51A119; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 906241A116 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVms-000709-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] plan9port, rio Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:13:59 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: greetings, i am not allowed to change window manager at work, but out of curiosity i tried ''rio'' when cde was already running. the error message was: 9wm: it looks like there's already a window manager running; 9wm not started is it silly to make a patch for this error message? bengt From nemo@lsub.org Mon Apr 19 20:30:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 19:31:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b30cfd8a_91ec_11d8_95f4_00304828b574_20437; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C26E3456FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2a7e7ba_91ec_11d8_93c0_00304828b574_20434; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3E7C37580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983BF7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b23eb60a_91ec_11d8_935b_00304828b574_20431; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C323456FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b147ab44_91ec_11d8_861e_00304828b574_20428; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 269731A125; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A1C91A11F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:31:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D94F1A121; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87A9F19C75 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) In-Reply-To: <86ptadl3oe.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnxqyyyxrhjpzynxndecpywyrd" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:30:29 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnxqyyyxrhjpzynxndecpywyrd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd try first to configure the fs(3) on a working system. Then try again. --upas-mnxqyyyxrhjpzynxndecpywyrd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Apr 19 12:12:58 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FDE31A07F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8CA51A06B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:12:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 878C819FF0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2C0C1A019 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVdv-0006oZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:47 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Artur Meski Message-ID: <86ptadl3oe.fsf@menkar.cifrid.net> Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:04:18 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm trying to setup a mirror as described in "Setting up Fossil" (section: USING A MIRROR WITH FOSSIL). Because there is no fs(3) compiled into the kernel by default I added it ('fs') to a 'dev' section and built a new kernel. I get panic when booting up using this kernel. Any help appreciated, Artur -- // WWW: artur.black.pl // PGP: finger apm%acrux.cifrid.net // --upas-mnxqyyyxrhjpzynxndecpywyrd-- From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Mon Apr 19 20:30:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 20:09:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0939542e_91f2_11d8_9344_00304828b574_23447; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B50E345724 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08465dfa_91f2_11d8_885f_00304828b574_23438; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 32F227580FE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E527580FC for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07632aee_91f2_11d8_9291_00304828b574_23425; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:09:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13BA345724 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5c16432_91f1_11d8_9ab2_00304828b574_22309; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCD311A086; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A29C1A06F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DD851A071; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cc-smtp3 (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 279971A06B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by cc-smtp3 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:07:44 +0100 Received: from larch (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3JCxvIw009849 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:59:58 +0100 Message-ID: <75f25db15d4bf5f015ccb26ee248e677@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:07:44 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Perhaps I am missing the point entirely but do unix mk-with-sh users generally (always) use sh as their login shell? One could just code mk to fork the shell specified in the SHELL=3D enviroment variable if it exists (bash/ash/sh/ etc) and rc if not (I'm pretty sure rc doesn't set shell=3D). one could also override this using: SHELL=3D/bin/sh mk It does feel a bit like more(1) changing mode when stdout is a tty, but mk appears to have fallen the way of all software (backward compatability) so somthing has to give... just my 2=C2=A2 -Steve From a@9srv.net Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 20:34:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88808146_91f5_11d8_922e_00304828b574_11739; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF019345791 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 884c46a6_91f5_11d8_8141_00304828b574_11736; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9A56B7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524057580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8812368c_91f5_11d8_860c_00304828b574_11733; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689CC345791 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8768f856_91f5_11d8_97e5_00304828b574_11730; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2B681A06F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C1BDF1A06D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 037E31A049; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96B9B19C80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f99a79787f1ebda675dc2ae47c4d292@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? In-Reply-To: <196f381b.0404091423.53b0b231@posting.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:29:36 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // Can Plan 9 be used successfully on a personal desktop... yes, but... // as a replacement for, say, Windows or Linux? not really, no. you can use it as a desktop system, but you're going to have a *very* different experience from what you'd have using, say, Windows or Linux. *VERY* different. its not that the design goals are incompatable, so much as the focus of most of the community does not lend itself to working on typical "desktop" apps. there's nothing in the design to prevent someone from porting, say, Mozilla or gtk or whatever, but it's a ton of work that nobody's done, and most of the community doesn't really have a drive for. =E3=82=A2 From a@9srv.net Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 20:36:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb1e4038_91f5_11d8_8ff5_00304828b574_13342; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ED53457A0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id caecf29e_91f5_11d8_81c7_00304828b574_13339; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5F9307580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADB87580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cab16e18_91f5_11d8_9339_00304828b574_13336; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C913457A0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca09e8a0_91f5_11d8_880e_00304828b574_13333; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:36:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E4B81A06D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B948F1A072; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:36:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D58F1A06F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 842541A028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:35:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d6d12286111e26bf2f2dd3134af698a@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <407fd031$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:33:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // I am happy with sam until I will get emacs or vi. shudder. and we *have* vi. but i'm not sure i see the relevance... ;-) // Why I do not chord? I use Plan 9 for maybe an hour a week. and, what, you don't want that hour to be more productive or interesting? i can understand people not liking it, or finding it dificult given physical limitations like RSI, but why on earth would chording as an idea turn you off from the entire interface? =E3=82=A2 From a@9srv.net Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 20:39:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 388294bc_91f6_11d8_9f98_00304828b574_15623; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BF33457A9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3851bf68_91f6_11d8_92b6_00304828b574_15620; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DF73C7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953867580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38117ed0_91f6_11d8_8758_00304828b574_15617; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3383457A9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3769624a_91f6_11d8_8aff_00304828b574_15614; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:39:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 14CA01A049; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5499E1A089; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:39:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E223E1A072; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 450151A049 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:36:26 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // Stolen? STOLEN? Is there a big market for hot mouse balls? maybe not a market, but you'd be surprised how often the walk off. especially in public or semi-public places, like university comp centers or 'net cafes. in high school, somebody stole *all* the mouse balls from our computers, only to replace them a week later. it's a common prank. =E3=82=A2 From nemo@lsub.org Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 21:24:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83096712_91fc_11d8_8899_00304828b574_23590; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1D63457FF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82da4a40_91fc_11d8_9e0b_00304828b574_23587; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E36DE7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9972D7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8298a75c_91fc_11d8_9f6a_00304828b574_23584; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41673457FF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81f23282_91fc_11d8_8de4_00304828b574_23581; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:24:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0F86B1A0DA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4BFE1A074; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:24:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29A551A074; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4EA419C7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <8f99a79787f1ebda675dc2ae47c4d292@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:23:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > // as a replacement for, say, Windows or Linux? > > not really, no. Yes really, yes. At least, some of us do that. Of course, you don't need to use the same OS for all tasks all the time. For us, it's 90% Plan 9 and 10% XP|Lunix. From jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 21:49:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0718b988_9200_11d8_81b7_00304828b574_12957; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104A0345873 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06e369f4_9200_11d8_8afa_00304828b574_12954; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F1DA87580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0E67580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06ab6676_9200_11d8_87f8_00304828b574_12951; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4AB3345873 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06046d4e_9200_11d8_8172_00304828b574_12948; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E646F1A089; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3104519C9C; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:49:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81E381A028; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67D8819C16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53d39a62b928608347a764c76b8e5add@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <407fd031$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:48:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kenji Okamoto wrote: >=20 > I've never heard anyone else than boyd. =E2=98=BA >=20 > Kenji Neither Presotto nor I use acme. We've tried, maybe we're just too old. From bwc@coraid.com Mon Apr 19 22:18:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 22:13:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69c1651e_9203_11d8_8662_00304828b574_1983; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:13:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9ACD3445DF for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3618ed4a_9203_11d8_817f_00304828b574_742; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6927F7580FB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B2F7580FA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34f17aae_9203_11d8_87ea_00304828b574_735; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004403458B7 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:03:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9028750_9201_11d8_8c48_00304828b574_23939; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:03:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 668EB1A0DA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35C391A07F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:03:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C85411A089; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FB831A07F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6fba6117616e88a0a9a042418ebac533@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <1081918264.2948.0@despina.uk.clara.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ilakihvufbzufjidqwvhjablxs" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:58:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ilakihvufbzufjidqwvhjablxs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just bought one. There is indeed a middle button. The 800dpi thing is great, too. Takes a little getting used to, though. Like going from a Cessna 172 to a Pitts S2B. (That's an aerobatic biplane for those of you who are aeronautically challenged.) --upas-ilakihvufbzufjidqwvhjablxs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C942D1A105; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24B891A019; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:14:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93DC919FF0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3588119F2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFVj7-0006uu-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:10:09 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robin KAY Message-ID: <1081918264.2948.0@despina.uk.clara.net> Organization: www.gekkou.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de>, <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:09:42 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: andrey mirtchovski wrote: > Sascha Wildner wrote: > > > so which mice do you use? Does anyone know where I can buy an > > optical 3 button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. > > IBM has one for $25USD: I can't see properly from the picture. Is there a middle mouse button beyond the blue 'ScrollPoint' thing, or is the 'ScrollPoint' thing the middle button? How is to use? -- Wishing you good fortune, --Robin Kay-- (komadori) --upas-ilakihvufbzufjidqwvhjablxs-- From bwc@coraid.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 22:22:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a18d27d4_9204_11d8_8ca3_00304828b574_12296; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244234416B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a13ce90e_9204_11d8_9969_00304828b574_12290; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 43A37758102; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F46758117 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93c6ed42_9204_11d8_8eda_00304828b574_12081; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:22:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D773458EA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:13:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c6e8aae_9203_11d8_9e78_00304828b574_1846; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:13:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81F8E1A074; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75AA61A094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81E641A0EA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6C5A19F47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:03:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> // as a replacement for, say, Windows or Linux? >> >> not really, no. > > Yes really, yes. At least, some of us do that. > Of course, you don't need to use the same OS > for all tasks all the time. For us, it's 90% Plan 9 and 10% XP|Lunix. I, too, use Plan 9 like this. I'm using drawterm on XP--all my iMac's broke! We use OpenBSD, FreeBSD and Linux as well. Plan 9 is meant to do what it was meant to do and it would be a big waste of time to reinvent all the Mac and Windows applications. And the user interface for the technical users would begin to suck. Brantley From tom@insolvencyhelp.org Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 23:07:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec24783c_920a_11d8_83ae_00304828b574_17431; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5162A34593D for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebf2c1ca_920a_11d8_8687_00304828b574_17428; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D70AD7580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA93A7580FB for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea88c082_920a_11d8_8b05_00304828b574_17411; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE3134593F for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9c81c38_920a_11d8_9a1f_00304828b574_17390; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:07:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D62219C7C; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CCFD1A088; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BEAC19D18; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A9E319C7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from metta.miller.net (h0004e267c13e.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.91.163.177]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004041914063201300fk7u8e>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:06:32 +0000 From: "Thomas Miller" Organization: InsolvencyHelp.Org To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9 host? Message-ID: <4083DCD1.nail5G33PHJQ@insolvencyhelp.org> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: nail 10.6 11/15/03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "Thomas Miller" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:06:09 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Tom Miller wrote: > Hello, > > My web hosting contract is up for renewal > and I wonder if anybody wants to host my > low traffic site and email on plan9. > > Would anybody who might be interested > please contact me by private email? > > Thanks, > > Tom Hi, Sorry for the noise resulting from the parent appearing twice. I wrote and sent this via usenet, waited a day or two for it to appear, and then sent an email. I guess I wasn't patient enough. Kindest regards, Tom From rminnich@lanl.gov Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 23:33:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8b8e486e_920e_11d8_83b7_00304828b574_7537; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6724934436B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ada8220_920e_11d8_9cf5_00304828b574_7528; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2C6097580FF; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84377580FD for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a88afa4_920e_11d8_81ed_00304828b574_7524; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:33:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BFB344404 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa2ca9ec_920d_11d8_922a_00304828b574_3237; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:29:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F6101A116; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A41B61A094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 283431A094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D67961A036 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3JESbik020409 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:28:37 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3JESap9008522 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:28:36 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3JESawO029497 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:28:36 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? In-Reply-To: <196f381b.0404091423.53b0b231@posting.google.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:28:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joel Konkle-Parker wrote: > Can Plan 9 be used successfully on a personal desktop, as a > replacement for, say, Windows or Linux? long as you don't need anything like zyxOffice, or any x tools, or whatever. > Or are its design goals and implementation incompatible with that sort > of use? The big limitation is you can't participate in virus propagation. That's a real limiter. ron From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 23:45:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 334ef49e_9210_11d8_8889_00304828b574_20824; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3EA344234 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 331776cc_9210_11d8_963b_00304828b574_20821; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8767D758119; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931AF75810E for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 289dc782_9210_11d8_947c_00304828b574_20510; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:45:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578DD34435A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:41:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9fd7396_920f_11d8_8999_00304828b574_16369; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:41:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EF051A120; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DCB171A11D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:41:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E2CE1A109; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 467451A118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <1081918264.2948.0@despina.uk.clara.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:40:04 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I can't see properly from the picture. Is there a middle mouse button > beyond the blue 'ScrollPoint' thing, or is the 'ScrollPoint' thing the > middle button? How is to use? > Yes, there is a middle button (the blue thingy is left unused). As Brantley Coile says it takes some getting used to but it's worth it. I've used it to play the occasional game of quake too. andrey From j.krug@lancaster.ac.uk Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 19 23:46:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5af08f62_9210_11d8_9660_00304828b574_21689; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7963442A0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ab67250_9210_11d8_8ff2_00304828b574_21686; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8A0A87580FA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FAC7580F9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a7e9920_9210_11d8_93ab_00304828b574_21683; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D043442A0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59cff690_9210_11d8_932f_00304828b574_21680; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD4681A11D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B87051A123; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:46:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8391D1A118; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rebo.lancs.ac.uk (rebo.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.16.230]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85D6A1A102 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lic019000032.lancs.ac.uk ([148.88.124.34]) by rebo.lancs.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BFa1q-00022v-Mb for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:45:46 +0100 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: j.krug@lancaster.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: [9fans] Ligatures Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:45:46 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Can anyone explain how troff handles ligatures on plan9?=20 With this input=20 .TS center allbox; l l l l l. \(Fi ffi =EF=AC=83 fb03 64259 \(fi fi =EF=AC=81 fb01 64257 \(ff ff =EF=AC=80 fb00 64256 \(Ae AE =C3=86 00c6 198 \(ae ae =C3=A6 00e6 230 \(fl fl =EF=AC=82 fb02 64258 \(Fl ffl =EF=AC=84 fb04 64260 - ft =EF=AC=85 fb05 64261 .TE piped through tbl | troff -ms | lp -d stdout generates a postscript file that will only display the ae ligatures (whether viewed with page or printed). The third column is from Compose X hex-code. Or is this a font problem (which I am still unsure how to solve)? The last page of /sys/doc/troff.ps (the tables of special characters include the ligatures) seems to have the same behaviour. I got the unicode values from=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligature_(typography)=20 Cheers, John From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 00:01:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75492480_9212_11d8_9d50_00304828b574_1510; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB38F344434 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75173ed4_9212_11d8_9a19_00304828b574_1507; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CC4787580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E9B7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 74e0c58e_9212_11d8_913e_00304828b574_1504; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C977344434 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7438d9dc_9212_11d8_94cc_00304828b574_1501; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:01:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C09D019DEF; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5007219BE0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:01:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 15D1319BA5; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 077B919B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2247cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.72 with SMTP id x72mr8261cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <406D7906.3030701@swtch.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:00:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > this is true. however, how large a user base is neccessary to stop > progress in the name of backwards compatibility? not sure. ask Linus. russ From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 00:05:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0490870a_9213_11d8_9ef8_00304828b574_4667; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A9F34445D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 045ed02a_9213_11d8_89d3_00304828b574_4664; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2BDCE7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB16E7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0424567a_9213_11d8_85b0_00304828b574_4661; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0070434445D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 037d0186_9213_11d8_8f9e_00304828b574_4658; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 79B4319D9E; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 720C019BB2; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:05:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9CA3119CB9; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.243]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8D91419B92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2256cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.13 with SMTP id u13mr8264cwc; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:04:13 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Pull a new devfs.c from sources to stop the panic. Russ From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 00:14:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44a95104_9214_11d8_8a66_00304828b574_11440; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467623444B0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44739942_9214_11d8_813b_00304828b574_11437; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3355B7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE28E7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4439f11a_9214_11d8_9664_00304828b574_11434; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECD103444B0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 438bbb5e_9214_11d8_8e8c_00304828b574_11431; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:14:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9F8419BD5; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C4F0C19D49; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E493619BD5; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cc-smtp3 (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8D7B419A8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by cc-smtp3 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0100 Received: from larch (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3JH5iIw010039 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:05:44 +0100 Message-ID: <304d7ba63f14d8c236e1de8d22103f4e@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] protocol botch Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, I feel really bad asking again but I am stumped. I checked my cpurc (I posted it this morning but forgot to add a subject in my rush). The only way forward I can see is to: 1/ understand the internals of factotum (which I really don't have time to do at the moment) so I can understand its debug messages. 2/ format my disks and reinstall from scratch in the hope I type somthing differently. 3/ store my data on paper :-^ - auth/debug works - cpu(1) doesn't - telnet doesn't - booting from the network doesn't all authentication problems. I'al pay in beer at the 9con... Anyone ? -Steve From a@9srv.net Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 00:44:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 744eedd4_9218_11d8_9d0b_00304828b574_3073; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3663459E3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73fee9ba_9218_11d8_9844_00304828b574_3069; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E0C807580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABD97580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73c0c784_9218_11d8_95b4_00304828b574_3066; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49593459E3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7319a0b2_9218_11d8_952e_00304828b574_3063; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:44:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E874519DEF; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 661E31A09B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAD9719DEF; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62FA019B54 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on the desktop? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:33:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // Yes really, yes. At least, some of us do that. the point of my split response was that you *can* certainly use plan9 as a desktop, but it won't "replace windows", in the same sense that linux w/ kde or gnome or whatever can be said to. i don't think that's a bad thing at all. i used plan9 as my only system for years, quite happily. but i wasn't looking for a "windows replacement" - i was looking for a good system. plan9 won't give you wysiwyg html editors, office-style prodoctivity apps, your half-dozen IM environments, quicktime, nor quake. none of these make it a bad system, or even really detrack from it at all for many people. but it does, in a very substantial way, i think, make it unsuitable as a "windows replacement". =E3=82=A2 From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 01:08:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce2a86ee_921b_11d8_8837_00304828b574_27874; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 621FB344331 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cdeb70c6_921b_11d8_8fdd_00304828b574_27865; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5753575810D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6567580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf9d5cfa_921b_11d8_961d_00304828b574_27314; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:08:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D9C344560 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:01:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d32d8f48_921a_11d8_84cd_00304828b574_19848; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:01:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C50771A118; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A6061A0A4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:01:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E1D1A01F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 573771A065 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2400cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.72 with SMTP id x72mr8681cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] protocol botch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <304d7ba63f14d8c236e1de8d22103f4e@snellwilcox.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:59:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Your auth server is unhappy. Auth/debug mainly debugs network and auth server setup problems. it doesn't debug the factotums themselves. It seems likely that either your server or client factotum (or since they're in sync, both!) don't have the password that you've been typing into auth/debug and used in the auth server changeuser setup. I'd reread your secstore file very carefully to make sure it's got the password you think it has. Russ From davel@anvil.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 01:09:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3a7d782_921b_11d8_8432_00304828b574_28796; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5986C344331 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3737618_921b_11d8_8dd2_00304828b574_28789; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4402A7580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18F57580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f33005e0_921b_11d8_9569_00304828b574_28784; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A2E344331 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2835386_921b_11d8_9efa_00304828b574_28774; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A58821A116; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 942A21A0A4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0459A1A109; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17A341A09B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 4E73A3B7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:07:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9313B0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:07:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06604 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:07:51 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082390797.4691.946.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 9conlon ... Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:06:38 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ... is paid for and ready to roll. Is everyone sorted for accommodation etc.? I'm starting to put together a "pack": map of the area, some URLs of public services etc. Anything else I should include? Cheers, Dave. From g.pavelcak@comcast.net Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 01:45:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7ee41f0_9220_11d8_98cf_00304828b574_25003; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AC6345A2A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7b94ba8_9220_11d8_8fdb_00304828b574_25000; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E5AD37580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3197580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7816990_9220_11d8_8712_00304828b574_24997; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7378345A2A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6d90e44_9220_11d8_9924_00304828b574_24990; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E84ED1A084; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8128219B3B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:45:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C24A11A01F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAE9019B68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.0.102 (h004005b2f1be.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.62.4.194]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004041916441001100k2aqde>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:44:10 +0000 Message-ID: <440e1de372ba8ba5ddcbef439c16903b@comcast.net> From: Greg Pavelcak To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Rio on diskless terminal Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:42:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** I have a cpu server running and can drawterm into it. I was hoping to have a very quiet (booted from floppy) terminal attached through the network. I put 9LOAD, PLAN9.INI and 9pcdisk.gz on the floppy, and root is on il. I do get a prompt, and I'm clearly on the cpu server as glenda, but unfortunately when I try to run rio either from $term or $cpu, it runs on the cpu server and I don't see it on the terminal. I assume I've made some errors in binding devices on the server, but I haven't found the answer. I hope this is reasonably coherent, but I've been losing sleep over this one. Any help greatly appreciated. Greg From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 01:59:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee6ed5d4_9222_11d8_87b8_00304828b574_3621; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B50C345A70 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee3f066a_9222_11d8_95b6_00304828b574_3618; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F36937580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFEB7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee00fc1c_9222_11d8_9e2d_00304828b574_3615; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C4C345A70 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed5884b0_9222_11d8_828b_00304828b574_3612; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 53B2D1A0CE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C6CC1A0A4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BC4E1A094; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.243]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C0E2619FAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2630cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.66 with SMTP id v66mr9188cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rio on diskless terminal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <440e1de372ba8ba5ddcbef439c16903b@comcast.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:58:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Usually rio is run on the terminal. If you boot a terminal, it should run termrc, which should start vga for you, and then glenda's profile should start rio. Assuming you've changed something, you need to make sure that you run aux/vga on the local terminal and then bind -b '#i' /dev on the terminal before you cpu into the cpu server. Once on the cpu server, you'll want to unmount '#m' /dev unmount '#i' /dev bind -a /mnt/term/dev /dev bind /mnt/term/dev/cons /dev/cons bind /mnt/term/dev/consctl /dev/consctl before trying to start rio. The first two lines remove the cpu's mouse and draw from your name space (why they're there I don't know), and then the next line adds yours in. The final two make sure you're using the right console. The last two are typically done in your profile in the cpu case already. Russ From john@cs.york.ac.uk Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 02:16:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c08cb5e_9225_11d8_90b7_00304828b574_17150; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:16:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374EC34464A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:16:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b3554b8_9225_11d8_86c2_00304828b574_17025; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:16:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3B00758101; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:16:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DA77580FF for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:15:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3a35441a_9225_11d8_9e4c_00304828b574_16911; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:16:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897D93446C5 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:14:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 093399f2_9225_11d8_8b92_00304828b574_15622; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0526E1A119; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB3BC1A109; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:14:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE1071A0F3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw.cs.york.ac.uk (mailgw.cs.york.ac.uk [144.32.40.3]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB18B1A10B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from minster ([144.32.40.2] helo=minster.cs.york.ac.uk) by mailgw.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24) id 1BFcJE-0006Gg-Gb for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:11:52 +0100 Received: from pc118 ([144.32.41.119] helo=pc118.cs.york.ac.uk) by minster.cs.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BFcJE-00058l-U0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:11:52 +0100 From: John Murdie To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: john@cs.york.ac.uk Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082394712.1552.22.camel@pc118> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Another D? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:11:52 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I see that Slashdot[1] has come across Digital Mars'[2] "D" programming language (again?). I'm trying to remember how many other "D" programming languages I've heard of before - can anyone help? John A. Murdie Department of Computer Science University of York UK 1. http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/19/1124204&mode=thread&tid=108&tid=126&tid=156 2. http://www.digitalmars.com/ From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 02:30:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d81f926_9227_11d8_9a75_00304828b574_905; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976F23442B7 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d53f8dc_9227_11d8_9081_00304828b574_899; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 56D717580FF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBCD758100 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49f5fc08_9227_11d8_88e2_00304828b574_839; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:30:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DC334466D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f809ce8_9226_11d8_938c_00304828b574_27547; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C447A1A119; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11C331A109; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EACD19E8A; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 568C21A085 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Another D? From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <1082394712.1552.22.camel@pc118> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:24:48 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I see that Slashdot[1] has come across Digital Mars'[2] "D" programming > language (again?). I'm trying to remember how many other "D" programming > languages I've heard of before - can anyone help? > DDJ #358 (March 2004), article titled "Collection Enumeration -- Loops, Iterators and Nested Functions". Abstract is: "Yes, all languages do it, but D's approach is different". It references "The D Programming Language" by Walter Bright, DDJ, February 2002. Not sure if it's the same as the one on slashdot. Interesting side note: The same issue of DDJ details S-XML, a language for manipulating XML trees. To quote: "Specifically, S-XML represents XML elements with S-expressions". (have I mentioned this before on 9fans? deja-vu?) andrey From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 02:42:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3d58472_9228_11d8_94ad_00304828b574_10539; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11EFA3446C5 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f39969e2_9228_11d8_82e6_00304828b574_10536; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 029117580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4E77580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f358b10e_9228_11d8_8304_00304828b574_10533; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733173446C5 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f28666ea_9228_11d8_977c_00304828b574_10530; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:42:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F0A7519C0A; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0137519CFD; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:42:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2FAA19B7E; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 110A819A85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so2795cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.35 with SMTP id u35mr9522cwc; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: Steve Simon Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: [9fans] Re: protocol botch Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:41:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The story is this. I'm CC'ing 9fans so that it ends up in the archives for anyone else who has trouble. Auth/keyfs serves the keys from /adm/keydb. It consults nvram to learn the encryption key for the database (it uses the p9sk1 key for bootes to do this), but that is all. Bootes has its own entry in the key database that had better have the same key as in the nvram. Factotum initializes itself using nvram, either pulling out the p9sk1 key or a secstore key (and then grabbing a whole file of keys from secstore). The p9sk1 key for bootes then lives in many places: 1. it is in the nvram on the auth server machine, used to encrypt the auth db. 2. it is listed in bootes's entry in the key db. 3. it is listed in the secstore file. 4. it is in the nvram of any machine that doesn't use secstore. 5. either via #3 or #4, it gets loaded into the server factotum. If #1 is not right, auth/keyfs will not be able to decrypt the db. It is up-to-you to keep #2 through #4 in sync. Auth/debug checks that the password you type into auth/debug matches what is in the auth db (#2 above). It doesn't check the others. In particular, it doesn't check what ends up in factotum, which would indirectly check #3 and #4. It could, but it doesn't. In order for cpu to work between two machines, the factotums on the two machines (#5) must agree with the auth server (#2) about the passwords in question. The big-hammer approach to making this work is to go to the auth server and run "auth/changeuser bootes" and "auth/changeuser glenda" and make extra sure that you type the passwords correctly. Then reset the keys in factotum using echo 'key proto=p9sk1 user=whoever dom=my.dom.net \ !password=my-password' >/mnt/factotum/ctl on the terminal and the cpu server (setting the right user and password combo on each). Now you should have reasonable confidence that the auth db and the two factotums are in sync, and cpu should work. The factotum debug logs you've been posting show that all is well until factotum contacts the auth server, at which point you get a protocol botch. This protocol botch happens because the factotum and the auth server are speaking at each other using different encryption keys, so each appears to be speaking random garbage to the other. Looking at the logs you've posted, the first botch happens when the client hands the ticket to the cpu server, suggesting that the client and the auth server agree about the client password, but the auth server and the cpu server do not agree about the server password, so that would be the first password I tried resetting. Russ From boyd@insultant.net Tue Apr 20 08:16:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 03:55:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 29bcd0c2_9233_11d8_96b8_00304828b574_8787; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838683446AC for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 298a813a_9233_11d8_9c1b_00304828b574_8784; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 663917580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D42D7580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 294a858a_9233_11d8_9a99_00304828b574_8779; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0443446AC for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 28a88032_9233_11d8_8f2c_00304828b574_8773; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:55:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F16321A0C6; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A8091A0EA; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:55:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 798971A0A4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20ED41A04D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ED9C957444 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <041901c4263f$5582d810$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:51:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > not sure. ask Linus. compatibility? ohh, you can get into a real mess with that on linux when your shared libs don't match your binaries. From annie.demur@free.fr Tue Apr 20 08:16:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 06:57:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92daffb6_924c_11d8_9998_00304828b574_4899; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3953448AE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 929f6a78_924c_11d8_8ece_00304828b574_4893; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2592A7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D920C7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9267b2cc_924c_11d8_8220_00304828b574_4890; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC773448AE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 919d8f24_924c_11d8_92dd_00304828b574_4885; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:57:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9EA519D59; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8270319D19; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:57:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4108A19CAD; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7337819B73 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFgic-00009k-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:54:22 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Annie D. Message-ID: <971a2f9b.779797b5@host-69-48-73-244.roc.choiceone.net> Organization: Nader for President 2004 - P.O. Box 18002, Washington, DC 20036 - (202) 265-4000 Subject: [9fans] Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: campaigns@votenader.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:49:53 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney, Get Congress to Take Action Sign our online Petition and read below for more information: http://www.votenader.org/get_involved/impeach.php HEY DUDE WHERE'S MY BUDDY!!!??? COME BACK HOME MICHAEL!!! Ok Michael, you've had your realpolitik fling with ex-General Wesley Clark. Your endorsed Presidential candidate in the Democratic Primaries has withdrawn. It is time for you to come home, to join your buddies and resume your only genuine role which is that of defiance and resistance. Compliance and assistance with the Democrats does not accord with your past, your character, your bold writings and, most memorably, your long corrosive assaults on the Party that betrayed the working classes and plunged our country into corporate globalization. Remember, Michael, you're the flinty man from Flint, Michigan. You've never forgotten your roots. The heady Hollywood, Manhattan scene with the celebrities and Academy Awards have never gotten to your head but rather have gotten into your deserving pockets. How we all recall your standing before one billion people in Los Angeles at the televised Academy Awards in 2003 and, breaking the customary cant of the awardees, throwing the gauntlet down to George W. Bush and his "fictitious" war mongering. Now the War has become a quagmire, with both Republicans and Democrats complicit (check the votes in Congress). The Draft may be on the way. So what are you doing going on the Al Franken Show very nearly breaking down when Al Gore (he of the pro NAFTA/GATT, anti-worker, regime-change, Iraq-bombing, lethal sanctions on half a million children Administration) called and thought you were apologizing. You have nothing to apologize for, Michael. Gore has a lot to apologize for-blowing the election he won in Florida and the country as a whole and for blowing, with Bill Clinton, the many opportunities the rich-booming Nineties and the collapse of the Soviet Union gave this country to turn a peace dividend into a pro-worker, pro-environment, pro-consumer and anti-poverty resurgence. Come back and join our Presidential campaign, Michael. Talk to those "Reagan Democrats"-those 35% of union members who still vote Republican and against their own interests-as only you can. Michael, if you go pumping for the Democratic Party this year, just what are you going to say to the unemployed steelworkers near Sparrows Point in Maryland? To the megathousands of laid off textile and furniture workers in North and South Carolina? To the abandoned auto workers waiting and waiting near their empty factories that went to repressive countries? To the millions of blue-collar workers, who fought our wars, only to learn that the two parties won't fight for their company pensions and health insurance? Are you going to tell them how the Democratic Party pushed through the WTO, let their pensions erode or disappear, were too busy collecting checks from the corporate bosses to pay attention to the corporate crime wave that looted and drained trillions of dollars from millions of workers, their retirement and small investments? Will you tell them that the cowardly Democrats, who couldn't win the fewer elections they are now not losing without the labor vote, won't even mount a determined drive to repeal the notorious, union-blocking Taft Hartley Act? How can you be free to be what you are, or to depress Bush's vote, to jolt into consciousness the moribund Democratic Party? Hey Dude, join your real buddies! The ones you may be thinking about just don't fit either your message, your vision, or our website VoteNader.org. Come back home Michael. The workers and the youth of America are looking for you. Best regards, Ralph Nader P.S. Will you put this invitation on your website and see how your fans react to Michael Moore returning to the Nader 2004 presidential campaign? Patti Smith will reserve a big singing spot, for you, on the stage for the customary finale, PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER. Wednesday April 14, 2004 Join the Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney Help us Get Congress to Take Action You can help the call for an impeachment inquiry of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. Sign our online Petition. http://www.votenader.org/get_involved/impeach.php George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be impeached for two reasons: They led the United States into an illegal, unconstitutional war in Iraq. They misled the Congress and the American people with five falsehoods that led to war. All it takes is one Member of the House of Representatives to call for an Impeachment Inquiry to start the process to investigate the two grounds. If the House then votes by a simple majority for Articles of Impeachment, the Senate would then undertake a trial of the President and Vice President. They would only be convicted, and impeached, if two-thirds of the Senate agrees. -- to "link up with .the parties and organizations that make up the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement. With the weapon of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism and its military strategy, people's war, the Palestinian people's fight will surely become .more integral part of the world revolution, hastening the day when imperialism, Zionism .meet their doom." These Maoist terrorist organizations are financing their activities by trafficking in controlled substances. According to December 13, 2000, testimony by Frank Cilluffo, to the U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) " is heavily involved in the European drug trade, especially in Germany and France. French law enforcement estimates that the PKK smuggles 80 percent of the heroin in Paris." Cilluffo is Deputy Director, Global Organized Crime Program Counterterrorism Task Force at Washington, D.C.'s Center for Strategic and International Studies. This same testimony reveals the Nepal Communist Party, ".turned to drug trafficking for funding. Nepal serves as a hub for hashish trafficking in Asia." The CIA Fact Book lists Nepal as a major From matt@proweb.co.uk Tue Apr 20 08:16:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 08:15:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79beafea_9257_11d8_8e1b_00304828b574_7667; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EC8344967 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 798f683e_9257_11d8_9dec_00304828b574_7664; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 860157580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2527580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 794fdee4_9257_11d8_9a72_00304828b574_7661; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57475344967 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78a84ba2_9257_11d8_9856_00304828b574_7658; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC17719D29; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0E9E19C8A; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:15:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1006E19C9D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BAAE519ABA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:17:03 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hooray, I thought, MS let you download the toolchain, now I can compile drawterm with SSL http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/ almost I used : mk -n 'CONF=Windows' on plan9 to produce http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/drawterm-compile.bat but it failed, mainly due to a missing windows.h (the MS version I presume) http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/plan9/compile_output.txt there are some other minor errors too such as auth.c(104) : warning C4013: 'des56to64' undefined; assuming extern returning int oh well, it was close m From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 08:31:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a913ee02_9259_11d8_8a22_00304828b574_19881; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079CC344B2B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8ddb3e6_9259_11d8_9eca_00304828b574_19878; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E86DB7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3917580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8a3f548_9259_11d8_9677_00304828b574_19875; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC735344B2B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7f4f7c8_9259_11d8_8ee5_00304828b574_19871; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E26119D5E; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC92619C96; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB9F119DA0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C40019D84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BAAE237990 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:29:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <04eb01c42665$becced30$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:26:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > there are some other minor errors too > > such as auth.c(104) : warning C4013: 'des56to64' undefined; assuming extern returning int my theory is that you need the inverse of this: -/* - * Convert a Plan 9 key to a DES key. - */ -uchar * -des9key(uchar *key) -{ - int i; - int m1[] = { 0x00, 0x01, 0x03, 0x07, 0x0F, 0x1F, 0x3F }; - int m2[] = { 0x00, 0xFC, 0xF8, 0xF0, 0xE0, 0xC0, 0x80 }; - static uchar nkey[DESKEYPLEN]; - - nkey[0] = key[0] & 0xFE; - - for (i = 1; i < 7; i++) - nkey[i] = (key[i - 1] & m1[i]) << 8 - i | (key[i] & m2[i]) >> i; - - nkey[7] = (key[6] & 0x7F) << 1; - - - return nkey; -} as Plan 9 packs a DES key into 7 bytes, the 8th bit being a 'parity' bit and unused. From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 08:48:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1236ffda_925c_11d8_8707_00304828b574_2153; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF69344BC4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 120617d0_925c_11d8_8588_00304828b574_2150; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4FC8F7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073757580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11c5f47a_925c_11d8_8894_00304828b574_2147; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0E3344BC4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 111ced62_925c_11d8_938f_00304828b574_2144; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54E0E19E02; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C39C619D84; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:48:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1183E19D84; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BFF2D19CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u33so5732cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.27 with SMTP id x27mr694cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> <04eb01c42665$becced30$0fca7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:46:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > my theory is that you need the inverse of this: at least you don't need the inverse of sha1. seriously, though, if you're missing you're not anywhere near close. it sounds like the build environment is quite a bit different. is the equivalent of plan 9's -- it defines everything. russ From ajft@ajft.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 08:55:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0d185020_925d_11d8_9082_00304828b574_7925; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF45344BFE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ce194e0_925d_11d8_9e67_00304828b574_7922; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 342547580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9F37580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c983af2_925d_11d8_9d94_00304828b574_7919; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF7D344C01 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0bec6bb4_925d_11d8_88b0_00304828b574_7909; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F20DC19F82; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAB9819E77; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:55:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 132B419DC9; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA1.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha1.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5341F19DA3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.85]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L95DG8EJCI91XAPT@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:54:06 +1000 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55773158005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:54:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (pc-949122.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.169]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427A6120008 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:54:06 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <40846659.8040809@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de> <8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: ajft@ajft.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:52:57 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: kim kubik wrote: > andrey mirtchovski wrote in message > news:8b896c83d31d6ce56f17a1cbf17c4dbd@plan9.ucalgary.ca... > >>>Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 >>>button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. > > >>IBM has one for $25USD: >> > > http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=-8 > 40&langId=-1&partNumber=31P7405&storeId=1 > > On that web page description of mouse, under "Features and Benefits" > it reads: > > "No mechanical ball to get dusty, dirty or stolen." > > Stolen? STOLEN? Is there a big market for hot mouse balls? There is zero market for stolen mouse balls, but tons of inconvenience when some brilliant student decides to steal them from fifty or more PCs in labs. Solution to this was to hot-glue the little ball-retainer thingy shut, this prevented the ball being stolen, but resulted in them being uncleanable and very quickly filling up with whatever grey goo mouse balls and rollers fill up with. Students steal stuff because they can, not because there's any need or market for it. > Guy comes home, finds window broken, laptop, printer, digital > camera all still sitting there; tries to use computer, no response. > Mouse ball is gone . . . a pink glove is laying by the pad. > > An alley downtown, swarthy guy in black trenchcoat, "psst, kid, > lookit here: this is from a little old lady who only used her Mac > for email on Sunday's . . ." From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 08:59:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96654c98_925d_11d8_9140_00304828b574_11031; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAE5344C1A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96349dc8_925d_11d8_9508_00304828b574_11028; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 930EC7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6967580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95f74162_925d_11d8_878f_00304828b574_11025; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64967344C1A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 954fbb54_925d_11d8_922a_00304828b574_11022; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1CA3719E80; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B425C19DA0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCFD719DAE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6CF7119CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4daf065eadae4ebeaf0204f1c78e014d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <53d39a62b928608347a764c76b8e5add@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:58:50 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I use acme for reading mail and browsing directory trees, but I don't live in it, like dhog did. Now that I know how to cancel an inadvertently-clicked button 2, it's okay. I'm also a long-time sam user. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:08:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc5d29fe_925e_11d8_9a83_00304828b574_18427; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C1B344C65 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc19637c_925e_11d8_8f8c_00304828b574_18424; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 55A837580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3CB7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbd95b4c_925e_11d8_94be_00304828b574_18421; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2269D344C65 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db2ffdcc_925e_11d8_9b36_00304828b574_18418; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C54A19FC2; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C31C19E15; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B31A19EDF; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25BB619CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 444B737A06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <050e01c4266b$07c1bcf0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> <04eb01c42665$becced30$0fca7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:04:18 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > it sounds like the > build environment is quite a bit different. > is the equivalent of plan 9's -- it defines everything. sure does. From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:13:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80cea684_925f_11d8_8cf4_00304828b574_22927; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADA9344677 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7eccefa8_925f_11d8_906a_00304828b574_22741; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 725417580FE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47037580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7dbfc9d2_925f_11d8_9c54_00304828b574_22629; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C603441D0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:11:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4807b728_925f_11d8_909f_00304828b574_21167; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:11:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F91319F37; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D50419DA0; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C594D19E15; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 625E219CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12284 invoked by uid 89); 20 Apr 2004 00:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2004 00:00:49 -0000 Message-ID: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 References: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> In-Reply-To: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:13:08 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: what a coincidence - i downloaded it too for a look-see. you'll need the windows SDK to get windows.h etc... http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/sdkupdate/ happy disk filling! brucee matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > Hooray, I thought, MS let you download the toolchain, now I can compile drawterm with SSL > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/ > > almost From bwc@coraid.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:17:10 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 107377b0_9260_11d8_8be7_00304828b574_27371; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98193448BA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fd4e0dc_9260_11d8_8d7a_00304828b574_27294; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 35E887580FE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:08 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31900758102 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ee68c16_9260_11d8_8f50_00304828b574_27181; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11EAE3448BA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89c524d4_925f_11d8_85af_00304828b574_23263; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:13:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B27419DFB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D001A079; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC11919DFB; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0EA1B19CBE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <4daf065eadae4ebeaf0204f1c78e014d@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:03:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I use acme for reading mail and browsing directory trees, but I don't > live in it, like dhog did. Now that I know how to cancel an > inadvertently-clicked button 2, it's okay. I'm also a long-time sam > user. I'm truly muddled. I've used Oberon so Acme is like a place where two worlds meet. Brantley From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:29:11 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be43a4fe_9261_11d8_9554_00304828b574_8475; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:29:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8AF3441C7 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:29:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bdf99d96_9261_11d8_90ee_00304828b574_8437; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:29:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B6B13758119; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:29:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49FF758110 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:28:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad83f858_9261_11d8_97e5_00304828b574_7643; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:28:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E26344293 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a384cc0_9261_11d8_8785_00304828b574_3007; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:24:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3023119F87; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4BC9519F87; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EBCE19EFD; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 322DF19E15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14724 invoked by uid 89); 20 Apr 2004 00:13:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2004 00:13:18 -0000 Message-ID: <40846DFD.9010903@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 References: <31c092fb1a6b81a657845f36752eacba@juice.thebigchoice.com> <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> In-Reply-To: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:25:33 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: and don't forget that only the cheese stands alone. % grep include windows.h Master include file for Windows applications. #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include % Bruce Ellis wrote: > what a coincidence - i downloaded it too for a look-see. > you'll need the windows SDK to get windows.h etc... > > http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/sdkupdate/ > > happy disk filling! > > brucee > > matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > >> Hooray, I thought, MS let you download the toolchain, now I can >> compile drawterm with SSL >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/ >> >> almost > > > From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:33:55 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67e4a06c_9262_11d8_8df5_00304828b574_12109; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2863448BA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67b382f2_9262_11d8_8e37_00304828b574_12106; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 11AED7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE53D7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67777546_9262_11d8_8f32_00304828b574_12103; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77583448BA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66cfe9ca_9262_11d8_8c09_00304828b574_12100; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:33:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3818519A26; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61C3A19AE7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9058D19ACC; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 116B319AB2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <40846DFD.9010903@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:32:43 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Might as well just include everything: cd \usr\include find . -name '*.h' -type f -print | sort | sed 's/.*/#include <&>/' >windows.h make From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 09:56:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 925955ce_9265_11d8_8bb6_00304828b574_31033; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F45344CF4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9222c266_9265_11d8_894e_00304828b574_31030; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BE2357580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765287580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91ea08ea_9265_11d8_85f9_00304828b574_31027; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDF5344CF4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91422832_9265_11d8_981b_00304828b574_31024; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:56:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E0D51A096; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6740D1A014; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 584C71A014; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 37BEC19D08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5060 invoked by uid 89); 20 Apr 2004 00:45:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2004 00:45:40 -0000 Message-ID: <4084759C.9050904@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:04 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: a novel solution but it's messier than that ... % grep -c '#if' windows.h 43 % Geoff Collyer wrote: > Might as well just include everything: > > cd \usr\include > find . -name '*.h' -type f -print | sort | sed 's/.*/#include <&>/' >windows.h > make From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 10:06:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1f2ac14_9266_11d8_8609_00304828b574_8349; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5F6344D30 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1b4f716_9266_11d8_8df8_00304828b574_8343; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9C7337580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531D27580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f17ee54a_9266_11d8_9371_00304828b574_8339; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B78B344D30 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0d706c2_9266_11d8_8725_00304828b574_8336; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:06:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 28A441A0B7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 153A019B37; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:06:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B0E7C19C96; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 98FA819AE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 686D137AE0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:05:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <053c01c42673$1bbecc40$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4084759C.9050904@chunder.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:02:08 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > a novel solution but it's messier than that ... enormously. From splite@purdue.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 10:36:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36488998_926b_11d8_859d_00304828b574_6260; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EDC344299 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36103aca_926b_11d8_952c_00304828b574_6255; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6BDBE7580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E457580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 340866d0_926b_11d8_8776_00304828b574_6221; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1BB344D68 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a58bb81e_9268_11d8_9708_00304828b574_18326; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F340E1A11D; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D64161A110; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B79A1A10B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1749419D47 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 9667BCDCE; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:17:38 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] fs(3) problem (kernel) Message-ID: <20040420011738.GA5571@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:17:38 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 11:04:13AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > Pull a new devfs.c from sources to stop the panic. That'd make a good t-shirt: Front: STOP THE PANIC! Back: Pull a new devfs.c from sources [glenda pic] From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 21 23:44:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 10:53:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ad4dc30_926d_11d8_953c_00304828b574_21214; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3B6344977 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8aa40ace_926d_11d8_9ad3_00304828b574_21211; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1CBFC7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5BA7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a62f534_926d_11d8_9d78_00304828b574_21208; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3452344977 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89bb6594_926d_11d8_8b91_00304828b574_21205; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 670D21A123; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 177D21A10B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:53:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C90661A10B; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E28E51A120 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <53d39a62b928608347a764c76b8e5add@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:21 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Neither Presotto nor I use acme. We've tried, maybe we're just too old. Probably, you grows up in the character device era, right? If we consider Plan 9 only from character user interface, I can only find one advantage of Plan 9 on a file server side. If that's all the Plan 9, we don't need terminals. We need only file server, auth/cpu server. I know it's the very obvious advantage of Plan 9 system. However, I see another possibility of Plan 9 to use it as our GUI terminals, where I'm not saying that present distribution is satisfying for it. Acme of its present form may not be the goal of GUI terminals of Plan 9 which I'm saying, however, it seems to me that the goal must exist beyond the point where we could overcome it. According to my understanding, the most weak point of acme is that it's not fully impremented as user level file server model of Plan 9, but as older style of library calls. Rob will say something else, I know of course. Acme's user interface is best to me to write documents, paricularly its multi-window capability. Everytime when I teach beginner students, who are not computer science major, how to use acme, they learn it very quickly, of course, including chording. Kenji From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 10:57:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1267b10e_926e_11d8_8b28_00304828b574_24360; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A725A34498F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12331232_926e_11d8_813d_00304828b574_24357; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 930997580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8CA7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11f91d02_926e_11d8_8845_00304828b574_24354; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626BF34498F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1150f212_926e_11d8_93ee_00304828b574_24351; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0380C19DB3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5161F19D04; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:57:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A733419C08; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 4E60619B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so9842cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.117.50 with SMTP id p50mr6961cwc; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <76F91F21.4651201E@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:56:31 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: acme is a file server. the interface is a little odd but i assure you it's a file server. Mail, win, etc. all just read and write files to connect to acme. in an acme window, ls /mnt/acme -rob From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 21 23:44:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 11:02:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce797152_926e_11d8_9b67_00304828b574_28330; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2233449C1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce495b66_926e_11d8_939f_00304828b574_28327; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1CA0E7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F837580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce08b3fe_926e_11d8_9aa9_00304828b574_28324; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7F63449C1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd60498a_926e_11d8_8a88_00304828b574_28321; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09E3519EE3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4189419DC9; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:02:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDCA419D04; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC6B719DC1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c25772175fc8df6612a239406d5e508@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <76F91F21.4651201E@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:57 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > acme is a file server. the interface is a little odd but i assure you > it's a file server. > Mail, win, etc. all just read and write files to connect to acme. Oh, I'm sorry, you are right. I should have to say, all the acme applications are written as older style library calls. Kenji From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 11:12:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b998ec4_9270_11d8_9fc3_00304828b574_4115; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6236344D7D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b68082c_9270_11d8_9ed2_00304828b574_4111; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A74077580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610E07580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b28c9fa_9270_11d8_9919_00304828b574_4106; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F92344D7D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3a7f6efa_9270_11d8_89f5_00304828b574_4103; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 079FA19EF8; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 40C2719F6F; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:12:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D4D419E17; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 073F219D04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B2E0237892 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:11:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <059001c4267c$67ec8310$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:08:41 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Acme's user interface is best to me to write documents, paricularly its multi-window > capability. it's your choice. no-one ever said you couldn't use it. btw: check your facts. From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 12:01:11 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9d46dae_9276_11d8_88bf_00304828b574_17410; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23AB3442CE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f98c1fb8_9276_11d8_82e6_00304828b574_17396; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3FF8E758112; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:01:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96C2758105 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:00:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0a9c7e2_9276_11d8_9abf_00304828b574_16748; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:00:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A49E344A2B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e8bcad66_9275_11d8_8f7f_00304828b574_8619; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8CD0419E85; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD50A19B87; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 620C91A0A4; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F3EB819E85 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u33so55cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.32 with SMTP id x32mr14194cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] more plan 9 ports, including acid Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:52:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: There are a lot of changes available in the CVS repository for the Plan 9 ports tree. There is also a new tarball. Among the changes: - 9term won't echo passwords anymore (thanks to Axel Belinfante) - UTF8 input support (thanks to David Tolpin) - added comm, gzip, bzip2, look, plot, graph (thanks to Taj Khattra) - many little fixes to rio (thanks to Axel Belinfante) - added htmlfmt (thanks to William Josephson) - added fmt, tweak - a first stab at some manual pages The biggest new piece is db and acid, though they're not quite as portable as I would like. They run on all the supported systems, but they're only really useful for debugging FreeBSD and Linux x86 binaries at the moment. (That is, you can debug x86 binaries on any supported system.) OtherBSD x86 binary support should be easy to add. The Mac OS part is done except that stack traces are very hard and not implemented -- you can look at binaries and data, just not stack traces. Adding support for SunOS binaries is probably easy if you understand register windows, which I don't. Acid works well enough on the x86 systems to debug multithreaded programs using -lthread. It handles dynamic libraries reasonably and uses the stabs or dwarf type info embedded in the binaries being debugged. The acid(1) man page has some high-level details. You don't really want to know the low-level details. /usr/local/plan9/src/acid/Notes details the changes to the acid language that didn't fit into the man page. (I haven't updated philw's manual.) Enjoy. Russ From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 12:54:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78cc0034_927e_11d8_9d63_00304828b574_29372; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A820344F16 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78905dea_927e_11d8_9f7d_00304828b574_29369; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4742C7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005107580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7857e0f0_927e_11d8_8072_00304828b574_29366; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A388344F16 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77b0fbd2_927e_11d8_87e2_00304828b574_29363; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF56919D41; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 919C519DB2; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:54:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EE5C619D70; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.243]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id C07A819A64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so10193cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.119.53 with SMTP id r53mr7245cwc; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <755C3E53.24B9DD1C@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7c25772175fc8df6612a239406d5e508@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:46:42 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I should have to say, all the acme applications are written as older > style library calls. i don't understand why you say this. have you looked at the source to Mail or win? -rob From okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 21 23:44:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 13:10:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad808a14_9280_11d8_953b_00304828b574_12021; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2645C344F53 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ace46c42_9280_11d8_8979_00304828b574_12010; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A22127580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180717580FB for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac42ccac_9280_11d8_8b4f_00304828b574_12002; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BEA344F53 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:06:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a9f79f8_9280_11d8_9bcf_00304828b574_7563; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:06:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F76519E1E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69A6219D93; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:06:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CFEB19DB2; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.101.69]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D176819D93 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <64754f3e3999f48f93184da6446074ca@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Kenji Okamoto In-Reply-To: <755C3E53.24B9DD1C@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:07:04 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i don't understand why you say this. have you looked at the source > to Mail or win? I'll shut up my mouth untill I got time and to concentrate myself to computers, sorry. Kenji From uncover@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp Wed Apr 21 23:44:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 14:29:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abe554ea_928b_11d8_8087_00304828b574_15817; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6543442B3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aaa30bea_928b_11d8_8c5a_00304828b574_15810; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 821F37580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428E37580FE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9b4c782_928b_11d8_8252_00304828b574_15802; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064263442B3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70379c14_928b_11d8_9f87_00304828b574_13900; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 883E019F60; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDB8719DFD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:27:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 388A419E19; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mps6.plala.or.jp (c149240.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.149.240]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C7C119CD2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vaitya ([219.164.28.243]) by mps6.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040420052638.SDVR27327.mps6.plala.or.jp@vaitya> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:26:38 +0900 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: YAMANASHI Takeshi In-Reply-To: <76F91F21.4651201E@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:55 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > acme is a file server. the interface is a little odd but i assure you > it's a file server. This is surely an advantage of acme compared to other extendable editors. One can add a feature to acme without learning a specific macro or language. Instead, just use rc script, c program or all comfortable mingling of them. Thank you for the interface. -- From uncover@beat.cc.titech.ac.jp Wed Apr 21 23:44:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 14:48:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56d1666c_928e_11d8_81cb_00304828b574_4537; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560F4344194 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 569bf590_928e_11d8_8178_00304828b574_4525; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7CC2E7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B7A758103 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52b27634_928e_11d8_9534_00304828b574_4487; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272E234419D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1567fdb2_928e_11d8_8e6f_00304828b574_2310; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:46:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A71419FD1; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C905919E19; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:46:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7D4319EFC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mps8.plala.or.jp (c151240.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.151.240]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCB7319E19 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vaitya ([219.164.28.243]) by mps8.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040420054536.WGZX4641.mps8.plala.or.jp@vaitya> for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:45:36 +0900 Message-ID: <65a4d392f7139bd571fe15143a649030@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: YAMANASHI Takeshi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:46:53 +0900 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > However, I see > another possibility of Plan 9 to use it as our GUI terminals By the way, I am seeing Plan 9 terminals as grid terminals these days; ie, a Plan 9 terminal working as front end to linux clusters (they are common computing nodes, aren't they?) Users on Plan 9 can import linux-nodes' file systems via u9fs so there is no need for any particular mechanism to do so-called staging. Only cp(1) between the terminal and clusters would be enough. And of course, you can start your jobs on the clusters with ssh. factotum/secstore provides the one-time-sign-on feature here. Honestly speaking, I'd love to see Plan 9 as computing nodes and looking eagerly 9grid project to develop. However, many applications doesn't support Plan 9 yet. (Hmm, having written down my idea as above, it doesn't sound new. they're ordinary usages of Plan 9 terminals after all.) -- From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:31 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 16:13:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38a8428a_929a_11d8_8d74_00304828b574_14888; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0958345144 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38732f5a_929a_11d8_8c8d_00304828b574_14885; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 97A277580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4976F7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38340596_929a_11d8_8997_00304828b574_14879; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63181345144 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 378cdb2c_929a_11d8_9ccf_00304828b574_14868; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B16FC19A1F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AA6119E41; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB94F19B0D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46D3119A1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:11:14 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>Everytime when I teach beginner students, who are not computer science >>major, how to use acme, they learn it very quickly, of course, including chording. i found that too. they sometimes find it refreshingly different. often they have no idea that a computer interface COULD be different. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:03:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35a6f732_92a1_11d8_93c0_00304828b574_23620; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22138345214 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35704f8e_92a1_11d8_9299_00304828b574_23617; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0CD2C7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9F97580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35370b66_92a1_11d8_94cb_00304828b574_23614; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C568D345214 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3486aa00_92a1_11d8_9c82_00304828b574_23610; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:03:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 213E319D88; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83CC919CDE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBDB019BE3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6381419CD4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3K82jD22536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:02:50 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Another D? Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:02:40 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > DDJ #358 (March 2004), article titled "Collection Enumeration -- > Loops, Iterators and Nested Functions". Abstract is: "Yes, all > languages do it, but D's approach is different". It references "The D > Programming Language" by Walter Bright, DDJ, February 2002. Walter Bright has a special place in my memory, I wonder what happened to him? He eventually sold Zortech to Symantec (I presume). This happened to be a surprisingly complete C++ (version 1 and version 2) compiler suite for the 8086 and later processors. I still use it occasionally, largely for small C utilities. I found it all pretty impressive, for what my opinion may be worth. In fact, his C++ compiler would, again in my opinion, complement Plan 9 rather successfully. Pity the source is not, to the best of my knowledge, in the public domain. ++L From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:33:03 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 56bc7088_92a5_11d8_9ede_00304828b574_20577; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:33:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708203442F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:33:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5664854e_92a5_11d8_9976_00304828b574_20526; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:33:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 90FB47580FE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:33:01 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A197580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:32:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54df352a_92a5_11d8_83c9_00304828b574_20413; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:33:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7CC34438A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:32:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4cd3f05a_92a5_11d8_8cc5_00304828b574_20323; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:32:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C0DE519F9E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B429319E4C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:32:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B3D6219CDE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cc-smtp3 (mail2.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.4]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2EC4F19E18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.253.14 by cc-smtp3 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:31:22 +0100 Received: from larch (netscreen-gateway.snellwilcox.com [192.168.253.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-uk.snellwilcox.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3KANqIw010929 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:23:53 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] it works Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:31:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, It works! Thanks for Russ and andrey for their kind help. The problem was solved (cpu works, telnet works, and I can network boot from my server) when I replaced the server's factotum keys with ones I generated by hand, IE the ones that factotum extracted from my nvram seemed to be incorrect. Why exactly these keys are bad I don't know, yet, I shall investigate, probably my finger trouble (sigh). Thanks again all! -Steve From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:42:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b01359de_92a6_11d8_8ac0_00304828b574_28162; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02089344FC3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id afdb9ad0_92a6_11d8_8245_00304828b574_28159; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC8897580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7932B7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id af8d6e78_92a6_11d8_8706_00304828b574_28156; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8337F344FC3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ae8201ba_92a6_11d8_84ce_00304828b574_28153; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEA3D19FDC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DAFB19EB7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:42:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03E5419F20; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C27FA19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFqmU-0002TL-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:39:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <75f25db15d4bf5f015ccb26ee248e677@snellwilcox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:38:34 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Steve Simon wrote: > Hi, > > Perhaps I am missing the point entirely but do unix mk-with-sh users > generally (always) use sh as their login shell? > > One could just code mk to fork the shell specified in the SHELL= > enviroment variable if it exists (bash/ash/sh/ etc) and rc if not > (I'm pretty sure rc doesn't set shell=). > > one could also override this using: > SHELL=/bin/sh mk imho the idea with mk is that it should be possible to send somebody mkfiles (and source etc) that will work on their system. generally speaking it is unlikely that ''they'' are all running the same shell, or even one that is compatible with the SHELL in your environment. therefore it is probably a good idea that mk uses one and the same shell everywhere. in my opinion that shell should be rc. bengt From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:43:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ba7d39b2_92a6_11d8_9508_00304828b574_28186; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78DF4344FC3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ba47de70_92a6_11d8_991c_00304828b574_28183; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6A19B7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32F47580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9fbafc8_92a6_11d8_8918_00304828b574_28180; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16198345238 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b952e9e2_92a6_11d8_8a14_00304828b574_28172; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:42:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A59C1A058; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3A1B1A07E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:42:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3344519E4C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D908B19EB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFqmU-0002TR-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:39:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:38:45 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Russ Cox wrote: >>this is true. however, how large a user base is neccessary to stop >>progress in the name of backwards compatibility? > > > not sure. ask Linus. i have read, but never verified, that libc has changed beyond backwards compatibility on linux. linux has many users. should i interpret this as a statement of intent to change mk :-)? bengt From diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:43:10 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c068788c_92a6_11d8_85c0_00304828b574_28740; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F10344FC3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c03148f8_92a6_11d8_95c1_00304828b574_28706; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 51B807580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EF87580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bff845bc_92a6_11d8_9cf6_00304828b574_28696; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E781344FC3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf4df800_92a6_11d8_8bbf_00304828b574_28629; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:43:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8F8E1A07E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3C611A0DD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:43:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6518619F78; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E740519B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFqmU-0002TF-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:39:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Diego Calleja Message-ID: <20040419231647.713719d4.diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <196f381b.0404091423.53b0b231@posting.google.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:38:21 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: El Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:50 GMT Joel Konkle-Parker escr= ibi=F3: > Can Plan 9 be used successfully on a personal desktop, as a > replacement for, say, Windows or Linux. >=20 > Or are its design goals and implementation incompatible with that sort > of use? If so, then Plan9 would suck, and it doesn't. Bur right now, being a mor or less "research os" you can expect that windows users are going to use it.=20 The key for desktop, anyway, are the apps, not the OS itself. If you can po= rt gnome/kde, openoffice, mozilla, xmms, and you have drivers to listen mp3 and watch dvds, then you're a desktop OS. But there's not a reason to port them if you have near zero users. Does Plan9 support linux binary emulation like open source BSDs do? If it does it'd be even easier, since you'd benefit from all apps (including commercial ones like databases) that are being written for linux. From paurea@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:58:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e99b0e34_92a8_11d8_856f_00304828b574_8406; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A29F345292 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e96992e6_92a8_11d8_8516_00304828b574_8401; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6B4F97580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256D27580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e92b15f2_92a8_11d8_8bd0_00304828b574_8397; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9C4345291 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e883b8ac_92a8_11d8_9ed9_00304828b574_8394; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EB5E19CC5; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A57BF19B8F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:58:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4485C19B85; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sailu.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc031.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C503919B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... From: Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz In-Reply-To: <1082390797.4691.946.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I'm starting to put together a "pack": > map of the area, some URLs of public services etc. > Anything else I should include? Cheap place to change Euros?. Just in case. G. From t.lankots@aprote.ee Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 17:59:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0646dc34_92a9_11d8_96b1_00304828b574_9162; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D90D345290 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 061272e6_92a9_11d8_8b2b_00304828b574_9157; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8AA467580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A007580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 05da328c_92a9_11d8_9c1d_00304828b574_9154; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56358345293 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 052c870e_92a9_11d8_8060_00304828b574_9147; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D70FC19DF0; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6EF919B91; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80BA019B91; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 105DC19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i3K8wixt006750 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:58:44 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05618B@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? Thread-Index: AcQms5c7b7jW9TGxTuKFw+/zQ8nIfwAAJHNQ From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:58:42 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Does Plan9 support linux binary emulation like open source=20 > BSDs do? If it One of the raison d'=EAtres of Plan 9 is the _absence_ of such things. = If you want Linux, use Linux; if you want Plan 9, use Plan 9. Conceptual = impurity is an evil, and not a necessary one. P.S. The desktop metaphor is a relict. Actually, it never quite worked, = but most people don't care to notice. Plan 9 is ahead of it's time by a = good 30 years (sigh). P.P.S. To quote Dijksta, "I was pleasantly surprised to find that the = dictionary description of 'elegant' is 'simple and surprisingly = effective'." From a@9srv.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 18:29:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ee72b62_92ad_11d8_9a01_00304828b574_2175; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9CE345303 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3eb58d96_92ad_11d8_9766_00304828b574_2172; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 817277580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4D77580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e763362_92ad_11d8_976c_00304828b574_2169; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5422F345303 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dcf3b16_92ad_11d8_996c_00304828b574_2166; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:29:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5CE5D19E4C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71B8A19E45; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 61BA319CDE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3708A19BA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 In-Reply-To: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:25:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // happy disk filling! i'd worked up the courage to look at the code, to satisfy my curiosity. then i firmly clenched my jaw in preparation for poluting my otherwise clean system with microsoft crap, and went seeking the download. but ah! you cannont get anything from there without IE running on a PC! thank you, microsoft, for saving me from my weakness and helping to preserve the purity of my system. =E3=82=A2 From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 18:40:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5a115fe_92ae_11d8_81f1_00304828b574_11777; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17F1344417 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c51fca94_92ae_11d8_8261_00304828b574_11769; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 623567580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E727580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4d0a3b0_92ae_11d8_8d4c_00304828b574_11765; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AAB344417 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7f51a8f2_92ae_11d8_8418_00304828b574_9704; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47AA219E4E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EBB319F78; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D38F119E45; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1C2219E23 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id E8ABE385; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0B437C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17298 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1082453743.22281.147.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:35:43 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 09:57, Gorka Guardiola M=C3=BAzquiz wrote: > Cheap place to change Euros?. Just in case. Good idea: don't forget the UK ain't in the Euro zone yet. Does anyone know anywhere cheap in London to buy =C2=A3UK? N.B. It may be worth bringing some Euros too, since lots of the big shops take them now! Cheers, Dave. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 19:34:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5158eb10_92b6_11d8_8d71_00304828b574_24830; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E99D34538F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5125967a_92b6_11d8_8fe2_00304828b574_24823; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E3B207580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEF27580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50e50650_92b6_11d8_8605_00304828b574_24819; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A660D34538E for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5034f094_92b6_11d8_9ea3_00304828b574_24815; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB92719B63; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3F9819B7F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:34:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1659F19B83; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 777BA19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0bbe5f15c4f273636c5445d108c0f42d@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon - Tshirts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:36:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: they are nice shirts, I have one already, but perhaps I should be like Einstein and have 20 of them and wear them all the time vita have my address already, I presume, I don't mind transporting them to London m From davel@anvil.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 19:35:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70d93aee_92b6_11d8_8430_00304828b574_25740; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EF5345393 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 709f3312_92b6_11d8_9cb7_00304828b574_25737; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BEB497580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEC37580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 705f6b6a_92b6_11d8_8310_00304828b574_25734; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71468345393 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6faaf90a_92b6_11d8_89cb_00304828b574_25731; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78C3219D72; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C869219E46; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:35:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98CFB19B7F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D95C19B83 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id A500137F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:34:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7FDD36E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:33:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27218 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:34:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon - Tshirts From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <1082390797.4691.946.camel@zevon> , <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082457200.22281.160.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:33:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 11:14, Michael Jeffrey wrote: > If anyone attending the 9conlon conference in London > would like one of the VN Plan 9 T-shirts (free), let me know > and I will get them sent down. Michael, Yes, please! Put me down for one. > I will need one address to send them to. Send them to me: Dave Lukes, 17 Birchmore Walk, Highbury Quadrant Estate, London, N5 2TJ U.K. I'll whiz them down to the Chapel and distribute them on Saturday. Many Thanks, Dave. From a@9srv.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 19:48:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 359bed6c_92b8_11d8_846c_00304828b574_3902; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7747134444C for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3564bd2e_92b8_11d8_8041_00304828b574_3879; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 63BFC7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4607580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 352b2d98_92b8_11d8_9cbc_00304828b574_3862; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F1F34444C for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3482d38c_92b8_11d8_872c_00304828b574_3790; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 12A0A1A027; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E198019F92; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0DA8219EDD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF2D819E48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32765109c5cd7e91373afccc4ccfdc91@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 In-Reply-To: <20040420104239.A10185@edinburgh.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:46:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // Well I certainly managed to start the download from phoenix/firebird/f= irefox huh. blast, now i'm all curious again. have you played with your agent st= ring? the error i get back from the MS server basically says "sorry, try again = using IE on a Win32 box." there's nothing clickable on the page. =E3=82=A2 From michael@vitanuova.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 20:10:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f23e9d0_92bb_11d8_8535_00304828b574_24921; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD59344C7D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ef17180_92bb_11d8_85c5_00304828b574_24918; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4ACD87580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31017758106 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4cc488b6_92bb_11d8_93f8_00304828b574_24885; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F283443E1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81a73f5c_92ba_11d8_8cc0_00304828b574_18301; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF6521A005; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E841119C66; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:27:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D60119B31; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1236219B4B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFsLG-0003Ts-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:19:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Michael Jeffrey Message-ID: Organization: ntl Business News Service References: <1082390797.4691.946.camel@zevon>, <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: [9fans] 9conlon - Tshirts Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:14:49 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: If anyone attending the 9conlon conference in London would like one of the VN Plan 9 T-shirts (free), let me know and I will get them sent down. I think we have quite a number of XL left but only a few of other sizes, you can see an image on our web site. http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.com/order.pl?PRODUCTSET=TSHIRTS I will need one address to send them to. From dfawcus@cisco.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 20:10:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 539f7bb4_92bb_11d8_90a2_00304828b574_24973; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42235344C0B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 535ed67c_92bb_11d8_9114_00304828b574_24959; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EAC0575810D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E29758100 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 527e2500_92bb_11d8_9fd1_00304828b574_24948; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF36344C0B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 843fc72a_92ba_11d8_8d6c_00304828b574_18326; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE96E19FE3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C3F019E70; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:44:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 66D3C19F8B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFA8A19BED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2004 11:47:09 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3K9g4ks009356 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id KAA08379 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:42:39 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 Message-ID: <20040420104239.A10185@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net>; from a@9srv.net on Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 05:25:17AM -0400 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:42:39 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 05:25:17AM -0400, a@9srv.net wrote: > but ah! you cannont get anything from there without IE running Well I certainly managed to start the download from phoenix/firebird/firefox (whatever it's called this week) From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 20:10:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59b16a62_92bb_11d8_901a_00304828b574_25051; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3A5344E36 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5978fec0_92bb_11d8_80d7_00304828b574_25045; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B39D87580FC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13656758101 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 576dbc06_92bb_11d8_9f9d_00304828b574_25009; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21891344441 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a4dbab4_92ba_11d8_851f_00304828b574_18399; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52A5D19BED; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8841919B31; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E06CC19B63; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 14EB719B25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 In-Reply-To: <20040420104239.A10185@edinburgh.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:22:54 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: the SDK uses an activeX installer, last time I looked Mozilla didn't support ActiveX So I think you arew talking at cross purposes m From a@9srv.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 20:21:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc94f7ae_92bc_11d8_803a_00304828b574_4165; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94E40344C11 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc5df18c_92bc_11d8_9a75_00304828b574_4160; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F0577580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361167580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc22b39c_92bc_11d8_8952_00304828b574_4156; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8C3344C11 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db7b3fae_92bc_11d8_9e11_00304828b574_4152; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C09819FBF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B62D19FC7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:53:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0559C19FBF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7DDF19F8B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8bbd18e2b4cda40b6198454440904a93@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:48:55 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // ...paricularly its multi-window capability. i've just (re)discovered Zerox. that one feature makes me about 15% more productive when working on largish documents or pretty much any program longer than two pages. every time i use it i find myself wondering why every editor doesn't have something similar. i showed Zerox to a windows/mac based coworker who's just discovering the unix world. it took a few runs to explain that, no, it wasn't just making a copy of the file. =E3=82=A2 From arnold@skeeve.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 20:21:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df79eb8c_92bc_11d8_9549_00304828b574_4181; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71710344C11 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df42b9aa_92bc_11d8_906c_00304828b574_4178; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5DD827580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149077580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df08b200_92bc_11d8_8864_00304828b574_4175; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA86344C11 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id de61393a_92bc_11d8_800e_00304828b574_4172; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:21:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 487241A025; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E132019FC7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDFA01A025; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (80.178.6.172.forward.012.net.il [80.178.6.172]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C052C19FF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skeeve.com (deva [127.0.0.1]) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3K9siXQ029279 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0300 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by skeeve.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3K9siU4029277; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:44 +0300 From: Aharon Robbins Message-Id: <200404200954.i3K9siU4029277@skeeve.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Another D? X-Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Pioneer Consulting, Ltd. Cc: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:54:44 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: In article you write: >> DDJ #358 (March 2004), article titled "Collection Enumeration -- >> Loops, Iterators and Nested Functions". Abstract is: "Yes, all >> languages do it, but D's approach is different". It references "The D >> Programming Language" by Walter Bright, DDJ, February 2002. > >Walter Bright has a special place in my memory, I wonder what happened >to him? See www.digitalmars.com. He has D compilers for x86 Linux and Windows. Arnold From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:00:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5df79de2_92c2_11d8_9cfd_00304828b574_4415; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF1B345430 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5dc51b74_92c2_11d8_9646_00304828b574_4412; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 137F67580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04F07580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5d86c144_92c2_11d8_9cc4_00304828b574_4409; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8577345430 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5cde9492_92c2_11d8_935d_00304828b574_4406; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37E0E19C65; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB5E619B7F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:00:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D592919B7C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87E7E19B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 45F1937C48 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:59:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <062a01c426ce$750692a0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:52:35 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i found that too. they sometimes find it refreshingly different. often they > have no idea that a computer interface COULD be different. that's what PARC found when they gave their system to a bunch of secretaries. From martin.wyser@fastmail.fm Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:12:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fdecb39a_92c3_11d8_9cc0_00304828b574_13968; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E32E34545B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fdba5bca_92c3_11d8_841c_00304828b574_13962; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E47BF7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD687580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd79ad00_92c3_11d8_86a4_00304828b574_13959; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A5534545B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fcd1633e_92c3_11d8_85cf_00304828b574_13956; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B7A3A19D0B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EF2C19B49; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:12:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED23819C53; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F5F219B49 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFu3i-0004zf-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:09:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Martin Wyser Message-ID: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETHZ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <407fd031$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>, <7d6d12286111e26bf2f2dd3134af698a@9srv.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:07:11 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: a@9srv.net wrote: > // I am happy with sam until I will get emacs or vi. >=20 > shudder. and we *have* vi. but i'm not sure i see the relevance... ;-) vi? Where? > // Why I do not chord? I use Plan 9 for maybe an hour a week. >=20 > and, what, you don't want that hour to be more productive or interestin= g? > i can understand people not liking it, or finding it dificult given > physical limitations like RSI, but why on earth would chording as an id= ea > turn you off from the entire interface? > =E3=82=A2 How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean=20 proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:16:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 956fdd1e_92c4_11d8_9099_00304828b574_17156; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1D5345468 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 953e4204_92c4_11d8_84e4_00304828b574_17153; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 205FF7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC087580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94fe3466_92c4_11d8_9c43_00304828b574_17150; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34D634546A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9455252e_92c4_11d8_8453_00304828b574_17141; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:16:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36A2D19D36; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8C0A19B7F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B6BB19B49; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 028FA19C53 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F1DF379F5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:15:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <065101c426d0$ba587970$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:12:17 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > imho the idea with mk is that it should be possible to send somebody > mkfiles (and source etc) that will work on their system. the problem isn't with mk, it's the recipies; the chunks of code that get run could (should?) be written in a 7th Ed shell or rc independent 'style' if possible. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:19:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe0e422a_92c4_11d8_943c_00304828b574_19565; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFDE34546E for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fddc6b7e_92c4_11d8_9cb0_00304828b574_19562; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A05677580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0387580FA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd9f38c6_92c4_11d8_86de_00304828b574_19559; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7188034546E for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fcf56346_92c4_11d8_899f_00304828b574_19552; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:19:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 49F0A19C53; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A277D19EE8; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E4CFD19E5D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C20FF19B7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6123337949 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:18:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <065701c426d1$24af11d0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:15:15 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i have read, but never verified, that libc has changed beyond backwards > compatibility on linux. debian managed to shoot themselves in the foot with some libc, some time back. you couldn't go forward 'cos other stuff would break and you couldn't go back 'cos more stuff would break. i smirked a lot. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:21:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ff4d6d6_92c5_11d8_9efc_00304828b574_21111; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54239345475 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fc38a2c_92c5_11d8_8646_00304828b574_21108; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 30F4B7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45B47580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f7b1a08_92c5_11d8_8147_00304828b574_21105; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4777345475 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ec3f8dc_92c5_11d8_871e_00304828b574_21102; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4A0E619FED; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B66F19EEB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:21:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5BA2A19EEB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 332CA19D35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3KCKUD06210 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:20:31 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <89de3b4325c40999e16ca4857bbc723b@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <065101c426d0$ba587970$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:20:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the problem isn't with mk, it's the recipies; the chunks of code > that get run could (should?) be written in a 7th Ed shell or rc > independent 'style' if possible. A "SHELL=" assignment in the mkfile could go a long way to guarantee recipe compatibility, surely? Or should it be a command line argument to mk? ++L PS: I use mk very little, so I may be off the mark above. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:23:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a055386_92c5_11d8_976f_00304828b574_22677; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92788345479 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89d366a0_92c5_11d8_91dc_00304828b574_22674; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 63D017580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4887580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 898a2ba2_92c5_11d8_9dc7_00304828b574_22671; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369B0345479 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88e2d140_92c5_11d8_8fac_00304828b574_22667; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20FFE1A010; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6482D19FF3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E66EA19EFC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C457119D35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BB9037849 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:21:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <066001c426d1$966b20c0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:18:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Cheap place to change Euros?. Just in case. use an ATM and take out largish sums [100 GBP] from a major bank. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:24:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9a78745a_92c5_11d8_81f9_00304828b574_22829; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:24:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928F33444DC for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99eb5200_92c5_11d8_8970_00304828b574_22820; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 123447580FD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912647580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99399362_92c5_11d8_9679_00304828b574_22812; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB8C3444E1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 910acecc_92c5_11d8_8a41_00304828b574_22728; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 151791A020; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0018819F4F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 918E819EEB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7614A19D35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0b45418776543a3858b55835a4df93a9@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:21:30 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > vi? Where? in Plan 9 vi(1) is an instruction simulator of MIPS binaries. the emacs(1) man page is even more telling. > How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean > proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. a week. no, really. much less time than it took me to learn vi proficiently. that includes chording :) andrey From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:30:33 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8460aee8_92c6_11d8_8771_00304828b574_30156; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C39345492 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83b265b8_92c6_11d8_9a44_00304828b574_30147; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6A5E37580F9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE37758104 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82b9a3ce_92c6_11d8_9c20_00304828b574_30142; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6F6344E19 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6409e2a_92c5_11d8_9cfb_00304828b574_25891; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4E1221A090; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B72919FF3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:26:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 476141A02B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE30419F4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:27:41 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. you type, you press Put, you right click stuff, you middle click stuff if you like you can chord 1-2 2-3 but it's not required the rest is Acme independent there is no search and replace, that's what sed is for (though you are free to use awk, tr, grep, etc.etc.) the only other thing to learn is selecting using : , . n and // but again, they aren't required as such once you've used Acme you won't want to go back m From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:32:12 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf6af71e_92c6_11d8_9c0c_00304828b574_32134; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A684E345481 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bea06ea4_92c6_11d8_9ca8_00304828b574_32054; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5FFEA7580FE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:10 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1459D7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be450118_92c6_11d8_8d11_00304828b574_32014; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:32:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536A8345481 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1506eabc_92c6_11d8_8230_00304828b574_26926; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:27:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1E5F71A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5EBF019F4F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:27:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F088919FF8; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA2BB19D35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 804E037A29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:26:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <067501c426d2$2a0b7c80$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> <20040420104239.A10185@edinburgh.cisco.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:22:34 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Well I certainly managed to start the download from phoenix/firebird/firefox > (whatever it's called this week) perhaps it lies about who/what it is? From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:34:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e5cc9d2_92c7_11d8_9604_00304828b574_2293; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED313444B4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e2baf3c_92c7_11d8_9c50_00304828b574_2290; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C82827580F9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42917580FB for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c4f2edc_92c7_11d8_8d14_00304828b574_2267; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2DC34548C for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:29:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b03f2f8_92c6_11d8_8754_00304828b574_29011; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:29:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CAAF1A059; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 56E6E19C4F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 867A619C4F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4959819B4A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F26EE37A09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <067e01c426d2$6d92a050$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8bbd18e2b4cda40b6198454440904a93@9srv.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:24:29 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i showed Zerox to a windows/mac based coworker who's just > discovering the unix world. i don't use it, except to freak people out :) From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:36:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a2536fc_92c7_11d8_85fa_00304828b574_4637; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4A634455B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59f15896_92c7_11d8_95a4_00304828b574_4632; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B28C9758109; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046227580FF for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 576a6a04_92c7_11d8_9cfb_00304828b574_4595; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B491344E19 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8410fc54_92c6_11d8_8439_00304828b574_30151; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:30:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C5DE01A0EB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22EBE1A0C7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:30:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA4C51A0E4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B5201A02B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 63674378B3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:29:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <068d01c426d2$ae94c6f0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:26:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the SDK uses an activeX installer, last time I looked Mozilla didn't support ActiveX ahh, that would explain it. From bwc@coraid.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:39:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b748d99c_92c7_11d8_87e6_00304828b574_7658; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8391E3443D7 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b717bb50_92c7_11d8_9888_00304828b574_7648; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 89FD4758102; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E187580FE for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0815468_92c7_11d8_8da6_00304828b574_7112; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3F1344CD4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:33:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0fe9a38_92c6_11d8_8ca2_00304828b574_1061; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:33:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A6CB19B16; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7384A1A0C7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 579521A0EC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7990A1A09D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2bc3dd6243efad1aabdc65df2a638240@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > there is no search and replace, that's what sed is for (though you are free to use awk, tr, grep, etc.etc.) There is Edit. Brantley From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:39:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b80b6052_92c7_11d8_8595_00304828b574_7732; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE5B344170 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7d42402_92c7_11d8_8676_00304828b574_7695; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 21AFA758107; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F02758103 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2f5d494_92c7_11d8_9bbf_00304828b574_7171; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65797344C40 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c4b8a08_92c7_11d8_8594_00304828b574_4658; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF6E61A107; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D6FF1A103; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 697A01A107; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 525E01A0C7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E56B237BC3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:35:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <06bc01c426d3$897c0da0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <89de3b4325c40999e16ca4857bbc723b@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:32:22 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > A "SHELL=" assignment in the mkfile could go a long way to guarantee > recipe compatibility, surely? no, consider SHELL=/bin/cat From plan9@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:39:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc593dfa_92c7_11d8_8d15_00304828b574_8006; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0992E3443F3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc28c544_92c7_11d8_8000_00304828b574_8003; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 62C7A7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:10 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B5A758100 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4d27bd2_92c7_11d8_91f1_00304828b574_7339; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEB2344486 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:37:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7bdd888a_92c7_11d8_90f2_00304828b574_5769; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:37:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C7F61A11B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71D6A1A0C7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4008E1A10B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from prunelle.tombob.com (82-41-200-130.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.200.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C38B61A0C7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ac0e057485fe0e345384e49e632132f@tombob.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk In-Reply-To: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:36:57 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean > proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. It took me about a week and a half real time (so, maybe 20 odd hours) to get to the stage where using any other editor was a royal pain in the arse. That time did involve growing my own guide file and writing a couple of "have to have" scripts for stuff like ctags and the like (this was wily under Unix at the time). Robby From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:39:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd667ae6_92c7_11d8_9b77_00304828b574_8044; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95607344427 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd18be00_92c7_11d8_813b_00304828b574_8021; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CC6A9758105; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:10 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C977580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b5383954_92c7_11d8_8bee_00304828b574_7412; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:39:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E9C3443D7 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:37:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87418992_92c7_11d8_8a4f_00304828b574_5894; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:37:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AC691A129; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A34F1A127; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19B2C1A103; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5939B1A105 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3KCaYCi011028 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:36:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3KCaY8H025270 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:36:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3KCaYH03541 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:36:34 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404201236.i3KCaYH03541@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:27:41 +0100." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:36:34 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > >How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean > > proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. > > you type, you press Put, you right click stuff, you middle click stuff > > if you like you can chord 1-2 2-3 but it's not required Wily (acme clone for unix) comes with a tutorial that shows you (allows you to experience) the basic editing operations/features. I also do not use plan 9 for so many hours a day, but have been using wily and 9term with chording daily, for years. Still recall how amazed I was when I 'fully automatically' without thinking used (tried, and failed, to use) an edit chord in a different application no supporting chords. > there is no search and replace, that's what sed is for > (though you are free to use awk, tr, grep, etc.etc.) However, acme does have the Edit command that does allow search and replace using (please correct me if I'm wrong) the same command language as in sam. Axel. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 21:50:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 528afbfa_92c9_11d8_862b_00304828b574_16746; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5533454A1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5250bf4e_92c9_11d8_836b_00304828b574_16743; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5C8E27580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15D9A7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5218d2fa_92c9_11d8_93a5_00304828b574_16740; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB5D3454A1 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5171bbc8_92c9_11d8_9f5c_00304828b574_16737; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:50:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 817A41A12B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 039A119FC6; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:50:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 914581A07C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1AD219E17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2adf8249a95d539d7c55d8265d6b9b4e@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <2bc3dd6243efad1aabdc65df2a638240@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:52:27 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: oh, I don't have Edit on my menus I had regarded no search and replace as a feature not a drawback :) One wish is that the blue bars would expand downwards instead of scrolling across so that really long commands were a bit easier. I have got into the habit of using "; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d548625c_92ca_11d8_9bf2_00304828b574_25599; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8683D7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8CC7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d50695f2_92ca_11d8_85d7_00304828b574_25596; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554533454C4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3ff0df6_92ca_11d8_83f5_00304828b574_25593; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C872A1A137; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 257F51A12E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:01:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E96F519DE7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31F3619C08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3KCxFD07883 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:59:15 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <2aa78de3278c853c61d44511e705f1e7@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <06bc01c426d3$897c0da0$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:58:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> A "SHELL=" assignment in the mkfile could go a long way to guarantee >> recipe compatibility, surely? > > no, consider SHELL=/bin/cat Sure, but the assumption is that the user distributing a mkfile actually would want it to produce the desired result? If SHELL=/bin/cat appears in such a mkfile, then it is a joke. I'm assuming that the various /bin/^(sh csh ksh bash tcsh) are reasonably portable across platforms that the publisher's intent can mostly be met. Not unlike having #!/bin/rc at the beginning of a script. The interesting question is whether mk, unlike make, can be shell agnostic. If I specify SHELL=/usr/bin/perl and supply perl recipes, will mk cope more or less invisibly? ++L From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:04:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 41459dc6_92cb_11d8_80d1_00304828b574_27864; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810923454D4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4113c5bc_92cb_11d8_9606_00304828b574_27861; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6215B7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185627580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40d259ec_92cb_11d8_9696_00304828b574_27855; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCEB3454D4 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 402995dc_92cb_11d8_92c9_00304828b574_27849; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA58B19C7F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92EE119BAB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:04:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EF6919AF0; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4032019ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3KD3dD08074 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:03:39 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <09146464332bbe55c007f20f5fa09b5b@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <2aa78de3278c853c61d44511e705f1e7@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:03:34 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > The interesting question is whether mk, unlike make, can be shell > agnostic. If I specify SHELL=/usr/bin/perl and supply perl recipes, > will mk cope more or less invisibly? I meant, in this theoretical situation where SHELL= determines which shell to use, of course. ++L From ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:08:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d803e04c_92cb_11d8_99ba_00304828b574_30940; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682603454E3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4d6040e_92cb_11d8_9539_00304828b574_30937; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 49A347580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1ED7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d49b3f68_92cb_11d8_9204_00304828b574_30934; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD983454E3 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3e480ca_92cb_11d8_91d7_00304828b574_30931; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:08:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2EFB11A0CD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B46019EE4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:08:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6AC2719D90; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ob1.cmich.edu (ob1.cmich.edu [141.209.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFEE919B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by ob1.cmich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3KD3aIk019922 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:59 -0400 Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2201971 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:06:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more plan 9 ports, including acid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-Spam-Score: -0.9 () X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Is anybody working on a Cygwin port? -ishwar On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Russ Cox wrote: > There are a lot of changes available in the CVS repository > for the Plan 9 ports tree. There is also a new tarball. > > Among the changes: > > - 9term won't echo passwords anymore (thanks to > Axel Belinfante) > - UTF8 input support (thanks to David Tolpin) > - added comm, gzip, bzip2, look, plot, graph > (thanks to Taj Khattra) > - many little fixes to rio (thanks to Axel Belinfante) > - added htmlfmt (thanks to William Josephson) > - added fmt, tweak > - a first stab at some manual pages > From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:28:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7b96d32_92ce_11d8_9334_00304828b574_15236; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC91C34552F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7873db2_92ce_11d8_8f0b_00304828b574_15233; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BEFDF7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A1F7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a748287a_92ce_11d8_8a19_00304828b574_15230; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC9034552F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a69f6406_92ce_11d8_9a9f_00304828b574_15227; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30F991A040; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 64ADB19D36; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC21B19E17; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.248]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 8B16B19D36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so1228cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.35 with SMTP id u35mr17267cwc; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] more plan 9 ports, including acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:27:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Is anybody working on a Cygwin port? I hope not. I'd much rather see a native Windows port if you're going to spend the energy. It's not hard, and would avoid needing to install one system simulator to get another. Russ From a@9srv.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:49:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89aed6a8_92d1_11d8_9553_00304828b574_5225; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE9C34416F for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 897b28ee_92d1_11d8_9127_00304828b574_5221; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 41EC5758102; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:23 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057FA7580FD for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82f2a2d6_92d1_11d8_9c0f_00304828b574_5076; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DFF34556A for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:38:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09740a9a_92d0_11d8_802c_00304828b574_25246; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88BE619FC6; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2692919D5E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:38:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F35AD19D0B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B497019DF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35b95a6f6285f1a30524ce59485f5102@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:31:06 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? as people have said, i think it's about a week or two using acme an hour or so a day. ahtat's for the whole thing, and there's a lot of stuff in there. but it's a very consistent model and remarkably easy to pick up. the chording itself is about an hour before you're familiar enough that you don't really think about it, another hour before it's natural, and, for me, it was one more hour before i started wondering why something like it wasn't in tons of other programs. =E3=82=A2 From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:49:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f0895bc_92d1_11d8_9c42_00304828b574_5304; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2534433B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ec430fc_92d1_11d8_8f89_00304828b574_5295; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 26CB57580FB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3B9758116 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86aa5112_92d1_11d8_8626_00304828b574_5165; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF1034450D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:44:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e0f3def0_92d0_11d8_9c23_00304828b574_31951; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:44:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ED2A419D29; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2A0C19D29; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:44:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9689919DF0; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FADE19D0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <35b95a6f6285f1a30524ce59485f5102@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:42:15 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: you might well have been surprised that kfs touches your hard drive when you've given it an ordinary file. what is it doing? should you worry? answer: console session, 9p1.c:/^f_session, mkchallenge, readnvram! (and no). gosh. From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:49:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ff20116_92d1_11d8_9be5_00304828b574_5320; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10067344320 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f7a12f0_92d1_11d8_985a_00304828b574_5312; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D802B7580FF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC7D758110 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 881f53f8_92d1_11d8_9f46_00304828b574_5193; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9C9344C6C for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1ed3bf1a_92d1_11d8_864c_00304828b574_1660; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F6BD1A11B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA72C1A07C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:46:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AD7A19E4E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E032319DF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7895ecc6a59ce0deff8e566b8110667c@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] kfs -f file ... From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ypxgsfaswirxslaodwdkkftzui" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:44:30 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ypxgsfaswirxslaodwdkkftzui Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, i left the wrong subject on that one. here's a better one. --upas-ypxgsfaswirxslaodwdkkftzui Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Tue Apr 20 14:43:55 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8EFF19E85; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0CF9019D29; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9689919DF0; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FADE19D0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <35b95a6f6285f1a30524ce59485f5102@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:42:15 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: you might well have been surprised that kfs touches your hard drive when you've given it an ordinary file. what is it doing? should you worry? answer: console session, 9p1.c:/^f_session, mkchallenge, readnvram! (and no). gosh. --upas-ypxgsfaswirxslaodwdkkftzui-- From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:53:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a714f0e_92d2_11d8_8d32_00304828b574_8460; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F7D34433B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a3fe0ae_92d2_11d8_9ac4_00304828b574_8457; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B73317580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFDB7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a00205e_92d2_11d8_9f19_00304828b574_8454; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8343834433B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1956d83c_92d2_11d8_9505_00304828b574_8451; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:53:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 538861A090; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E64CF19E1E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:53:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C86C319E1E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89AF419BF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KDqbik010890 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:52:37 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KDqap9021461 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:52:36 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KDqawO013549 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:52:36 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <65a4d392f7139bd571fe15143a649030@orthanc.cc.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 grid Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:52:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: if we had a Plan-9 style MPI that worked in clusters, it would work in the 9grid. That's the beauty of Plan 9. ron From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 22:58:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7970c04_92d2_11d8_8153_00304828b574_12327; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AEB344A39 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7674532_92d2_11d8_931a_00304828b574_12324; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 150D17580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF07D7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d725bacc_92d2_11d8_8f65_00304828b574_12321; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AA7344A39 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d67c17d8_92d2_11d8_8790_00304828b574_12317; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:58:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 658151A096; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A343D1A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B59C19FED; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 26E0219E1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] zerox for page(1) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:57:04 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: while on the subject of zerox, i've added (upon request) similar functionality to 'page' available under the middle-button menu. if people don't mind the name zerox i'll go ahead and add a description in the man page too. for now, here's what the patch readme says: --- add a zerox-like functionality accessible via the middle mouse button. creates a new window with the current image only, useful for selecting important pages of large documents. note that it doesn't implement _full_ Zerox functionality because modifications to the current image aren't reflected in the zerox-ed one. it is doubtful that such functionality is needed. man page will be modified as soon as the name 'zerox' is agreed upon. --- cheers: andrey From paurea@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 23:22:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 348b5340_92d6_11d8_9b82_00304828b574_31773; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E07A345590 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 345aa222_92d6_11d8_99be_00304828b574_31770; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 821DA7580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA7B7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 341d2456_92d6_11d8_8355_00304828b574_31767; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FDF345590 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 337669b8_92d6_11d8_93cf_00304828b574_31764; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F83F1A0CD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C15719FD1; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D7A319F60; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sailu.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc031.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AACBD19CF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon - Tshirts From: Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz In-Reply-To: <1082457200.22281.160.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:21:47 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 11:14, Michael Jeffrey wrote: >> If anyone attending the 9conlon conference in London >> would like one of the VN Plan 9 T-shirts (free), let me know >> and I will get them sent down. > > Michael, > Yes, please! Put me down for one. > >> I will need one address to send them to. We'll wan't four: One for nemo (he is not attending, but I'll give it to him). One for paurea, kleal, alcortes. G. From paurea@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 23:28:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe80158c_92d6_11d8_8098_00304828b574_3909; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BEE63455A0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe4a9d26_92d6_11d8_8015_00304828b574_3906; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 585C27580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1080B7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe117a50_92d6_11d8_93b6_00304828b574_3903; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AF93455A0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd67822a_92d6_11d8_8f04_00304828b574_3897; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:28:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E9AFF19D41; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A8C619BDB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:28:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AC7C319CC5; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sailu.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc031.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.31]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 04F6519BED for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29367c46a4587a513c1d2ac76121d892@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon - Tshirts From: Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:27:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 11:14, Michael Jeffrey wrote: >>> If anyone attending the 9conlon conference in London >>> would like one of the VN Plan 9 T-shirts (free), let me know >>> and I will get them sent down. > > > We'll wan't four: > > One for nemo (he is not attending, but I'll give it to him). > One for paurea, kleal, alcortes. > Rereading it, I think we would prefer L, but if it is XL... Thanks a lot. G. From sah@coraid.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 20 23:47:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ade4cd54_92d9_11d8_9fb4_00304828b574_19303; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F8B3455CA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id adb39f04_92d9_11d8_85e8_00304828b574_19300; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 937D17580FA; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A77D7580F9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad738b9e_92d9_11d8_9261_00304828b574_19297; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625443455CA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id accb4632_92d9_11d8_9ac7_00304828b574_19294; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:47:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6456C19DFE; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8EDD419CA9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:47:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B71219CFB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 35A5919B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3KDojGh018286 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:50:45 -0400 From: Sam X-Sender: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme (was: p9 mice) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:50:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I adore acme -- mostly because i adore chording, which never struck me as something particularly hard to get used to. My first linux chord using the acme in ports was a jubilant day. Cut-chording from 9term and pasting into the browser is sweet, sweet icing. I do have a few complaints about acme, though, and perhaps it's just because I haven't found the 'right' way (as is quite often the case 'round these parts). Conditional search and replace is one -- I type the word i'm looking for in the header, chord cut/paste it for a snarf, then right-click. I continue right- clicking on the matches until I find one I want to replace, do so with a double-first-third and now I have to drag back up to the bar to right-click on the word again. Do this several times and you wish you had an equivalent to the 'n' key to hit. Another that comes to mind is cursor teleport when I try to delete a modified window (ie: win). Make me click Del twice, fine, but the current mechanism seems to violate both 'minimize mouse activity' and 'don''t second-guess the user.' Lastly, the window headers can be a pain to leave the mouse over for typing. Quite often in the draw- right-hand-back-to-the-keyboard I nudge the little fella ever so and end up typing in the window body. Undo, re-place mouse, move more carefully, etc. These are tiny issues compared to the benefit I get using it, though. Sam From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:03:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dbd9adfe_92db_11d8_8905_00304828b574_2635; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C755234424C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dba7db9e_92db_11d8_9d2c_00304828b574_2628; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3A76D75810A; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA27A7580FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d94746dc_92db_11d8_96e1_00304828b574_2599; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCAE344394 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13876832_92db_11d8_94a7_00304828b574_28350; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 05AFB19E8E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D9A8019E2C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEA4919E5F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4FA7F19E25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEuGik006110 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:56:17 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEuGp9024624 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:56:16 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEuGwO016408 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:56:16 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <065701c426d1$24af11d0$0fca7d50@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:56:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > debian managed to shoot themselves in the foot with some libc, > some time back. you couldn't go forward 'cos other stuff would > break and you couldn't go back 'cos more stuff would break. gets better. Symbols are now versioned (well, this really happened a few years back). So you are very tightly screwed (good word) to the library you use, and it covers a definite range forward/backward. I assume but am not sure that glibc nowadays encompaesses lots of versions of lots of functions going back for years. Which also means the version naming of the file (libc-2.3.2.so) has a lot less meaning than it used to. At some point, given the tight wiring of an executable to the particular library version, one starts to lose track of just why .so's are still thought to be a good idea (I mean, on a 1960s-era Burroughs machine with not much memory, I get it, but ... /bin/cat on my Redhat box at 20K, is not much smaller than /bin/cat on Plan 9 (22K stripped), and the Plan 9 one doesn't do symbol fixup every time it runs ...). And, as Linus mentioned, TLBs matter. Hmm. Judging by 'ps', cat on linux needs 256 of them, and cat on Plan 9 needs 6. xclock has got 900 or so, and Plan 9 clock appears to have 3*30 or so (3 clock procs when you run clock). So you do pay a bit for .so's. You don't gain an implementation-independent interface for your programs, since the .so is versioned and the symbols in it are versioned; I wonder what you DO gain? The theory always was you could swap out a shared library and swap in a bug-fixed version, which sounds nice until you try it and it fails miserably (there was a time when this worked ...) ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:04:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 047b6914_92dc_11d8_975b_00304828b574_3880; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9FF8344311 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04457188_92dc_11d8_852d_00304828b574_3872; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 182D57580FF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B948758104 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02b152c4_92dc_11d8_9738_00304828b574_3844; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:04:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 303873443C0 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33ad7f98_92db_11d8_98cb_00304828b574_29360; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FC8619E80; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 476B119B20; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D9C6419DB3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0F1DE19E64 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEvIik006447 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:18 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEvIp9025202 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:18 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEvIwO016470 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:18 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 matt@proweb.co.uk wrote: > once you've used Acme you won't want to go back that one I agree with. Acme really does feel like an editor that was built for a windows system; Emacs kind of takes me back to the VT-52. ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:05:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3138f174_92dc_11d8_8149_00304828b574_5190; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011E2344356 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3100a256_92dc_11d8_8bdc_00304828b574_5184; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AE89D7580F9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F14758101 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ee05688_92dc_11d8_88f1_00304828b574_5150; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE5A3441C2 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:59:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 520d8c8a_92db_11d8_8059_00304828b574_30362; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:59:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E53319FBF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9943619B63; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D5E619CE4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58CF819DFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEwCik006785 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:12 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEwBQ8001942 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:11 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KEwBwO016512 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:11 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <5ac0e057485fe0e345384e49e632132f@tombob.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 plan9@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: > It took me about a week and a half real time (so, maybe 20 odd hours) > to get to the stage where using any other editor was a royal pain in > the arse. That time did involve growing my own guide file and writing > a couple of "have to have" scripts for stuff like ctags and the like > (this was wily under Unix at the time). so how do I do ctags in acme? I still drop back into vi for the ^[/^t stuff (tags stack -- very handy for me anyway). ron From pigeon@digitaltundra.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:11:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eeb1d05e_92dc_11d8_8242_00304828b574_10982; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:11:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39D834417A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee7c3d04_92dc_11d8_82c1_00304828b574_10976; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C911D7580FE; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B69758109 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e8e08cb0_92dc_11d8_8dd6_00304828b574_10870; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EC73441C2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3087ca34_92dc_11d8_87dd_00304828b574_5173; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 326C71A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 873A519E2C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:05:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D478119E2C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esmai.com (rrcs-west-24-106-20-154.biz.rr.com [24.106.20.154]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9C75E19B63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dual666 ([24.106.20.154]) by esmai.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:09:55 -0500 From: pigeon@digitaltundra.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.00.10 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2004 15:09:55.0062 (UTC) FILETIME=[8993D960:01C426E9] Subject: [9fans] Manage your mailing list Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:09:55 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=5.0 required=5.0 tests=DCC_CHECK,NO_REAL_NAME, PRIORITY_NO_NAME,X_LIBRARY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: **** This message contains an advertisement. 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Please be sure to use the subject. **Manage your email lists with Pigeon. http://www.digitaltundra.com/ From salomo3@cooper.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:11:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6be0a10_92dc_11d8_87ab_00304828b574_11777; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:11:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565EB34417A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:11:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6808230_92dc_11d8_8b31_00304828b574_11773; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:11:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BC59A758118; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE8375810A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e98f0e02_92dc_11d8_86f4_00304828b574_10882; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE351344338 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:06:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4b87f93a_92dc_11d8_9a59_00304828b574_6195; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:06:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 329D419E2C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0676219FDC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:06:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBFB819F87; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5B6A19E2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id BCDC93939; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 359B33937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adverb.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.222]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1455.199.98.20.222.1082472795.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [9fans] more plan 9 ports, including acid From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Russ Cox said: >> Is anybody working on a Cygwin port? > > I hope not. I'd much rather see a native > Windows port if you're going to spend the > energy. It's not hard, and would avoid > needing to install one system simulator > to get another. > I have, in the past, attempted to compile some of the 9ports under mingw = - aka gcc for native windows. I've just rebuilt/replaced my system & need t= o reinstall everything, but next chance I get I will report how a mingw build goes. --Joel From sape@huygens.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:16:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3f50002_92dd_11d8_8b89_00304828b574_15900; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B90344394 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3bffb6e_92dd_11d8_9ba1_00304828b574_15895; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BE6C07580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F587580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3874684_92dd_11d8_8bc7_00304828b574_15892; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F51B344397 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2dc1462_92dd_11d8_8062_00304828b574_15879; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:16:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 883421A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E425519B7C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:16:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF61619E8E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (outside.cs.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A950019B7C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Sape Mullender In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:15:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > so how do I do ctags in acme? I still drop back into vi for the ^[/^t > stuff (tags stack -- very handy for me anyway). All regular Plan 9 code is written in such a way that you can grep for '^function\(' in the coe and find where that function is declared. From dfawcus@cisco.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:21:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6bdc7a1a_92de_11d8_9b84_00304828b574_19822; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6573F34440C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ba9f7c0_92de_11d8_9818_00304828b574_19819; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 475CF7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01F77580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b6814ae_92de_11d8_9164_00304828b574_19816; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F1434440C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ac087fc_92de_11d8_9291_00304828b574_19813; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:21:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DD0D1A133; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 713941A0B7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:21:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7755119B7C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8E571A0EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2004 17:24:59 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3KFKhM1015862 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:20:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id QAA25861 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:20:42 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 Message-ID: <20040420162040.B20680@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <40846B14.2080306@chunder.com> <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> <20040420104239.A10185@edinburgh.cisco.com> <067501c426d2$2a0b7c80$0fca7d50@SOMA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <067501c426d2$2a0b7c80$0fca7d50@SOMA>; from boyd@insultant.net on Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 02:22:34PM +0200 X-PMX-Version: 4.6.0.97784 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:20:40 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 02:22:34PM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > Well I certainly managed to start the download from > phoenix/firebird/firefox > > (whatever it's called this week) > > perhaps it lies about who/what it is? Nah - I suspect it was crossed purpose - I then tried to download the SDK (vs the compiler) and got the "need IE" page. DF From huxw@knight.6test.edu.cn Wed Apr 21 23:44:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:26:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c28efc0_92df_11d8_9fe5_00304828b574_23667; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3077F344459 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bf64c00_92df_11d8_9c0f_00304828b574_23664; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 15F0F7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B265E7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1baf8306_92df_11d8_961b_00304828b574_23661; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB773344459 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1afdf956_92df_11d8_9c76_00304828b574_23658; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:26:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 952271A130; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C766D1A12D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:26:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D25A31A12E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from knight.6test.edu.cn (unknown [202.38.99.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E6021A0EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ibm-linux.6test.edu.cn (unknown [218.18.232.63]) by knight.6test.edu.cn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482A53DA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:52:42 +0800 (CST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Robin Hu User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Message-ID: <87y8oqzn5l.fsf@ibm-linux.6test.edu.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [9fans] plan9port on linux (i386) suse 9.1 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:25:58 +0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: hi all: I just download the latest plan9port source, from cvs.pdos.lcs.mit.edu. Here are two problems I found. 1. a lot of programs use libdraw failed to start on my systerm. stack overflow is reported. gdb bt shows: #0 _sched () at sched.c:170 #1 0x0806cc80 in _alt (alts=0x80d2450) at channel.c:122 #2 0x0806d359 in runop (op=Variable "op" is not available. ) at channel.c:233 #3 0x0806d5a9 in recvul (c=0x80d24c0) at channel.c:301 #4 0x0806e13f in _threadfdwait (fd=32, rw=114, pc=134669225) at fdwait.c:198 #5 0x0806e34c in threadread (fd=13, a=0x80d2578, n=4) at fdwait.c:241 #6 0x0806e3a9 in threadreadn (fd=13, a=0x80d2578, n=4) at fdwait.c:292 #7 0x0806c064 in _fsrecv (mux=0x20) at fs.c:274 #8 0x0806c68a in _muxrecv (mux=0x80f4500) at io.c:96 #9 0x0806c4ad in muxrpc (mux=0x80f4500, tx=0x80f45b8) at mux.c:68 #10 0x0806bb9c in fsrpc (fs=0x80f44d0, tx=0x80d2810, rx=0x80d2650, freep=0x80d264c) at fs.c:171 #11 0x0806bcea in fsversion (fs=0x80f44d0, msize=32, version=0x80f44d0 "9P2000", nversion=20) at fs.c:117 #12 0x0806bfe9 in fsmount (fd=13, aname=0x807aca6 "") at fs.c:64 #13 0x0806b221 in nsmount (name=0x807acbd "plumb", aname=0x807aca6 "") at ns.c:30 #14 0x0806b175 in plumbopen (name=0x8078c98 "send", omode=1) at mesg.c:17 #15 0x0804e252 in plumbstart () at 9term.c:1677 #16 0x0804a883 in threadmain (argc=0, argv=0xbffff198) at 9term.c:229 #17 0x0806ebb5 in mainlauncher (arg=0x20) at main.c:77 #18 0x0806fc5d in launcher386 (f=0x806eba0 , arg=0x80ca008) at 386.c:6 #19 0xfefefefe in ?? () I found _threadgetproc()->thread->stk is modified by XCreateBitMap in x11-init.c accidently. Since I am a newbie to both X programming and plan9, I can't tell why this happens indeed, but the following change can workaround it. - pmid = XCreatePixmap(_x.display, _x.drawable, 1, 1, 1); + pmid = XCreatePixmap(_x.display, _x.drawable, Dx(r), Dy(r), _x.depth); My XFree's version is 4.3.99, carried by SuSE 9.1. If anyone can help to debug, I can provide more details on this problem. 2. Acme keeps anonnying me with the following information > acme: cannot handle selection request for 'TIMESTAMP' (427) Can anyone decrypt this message for me ;( thanks a lot. From plan9@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:50:15 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a782f94_92e2_11d8_9256_00304828b574_9958; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1347B345622 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a476b3e_92e2_11d8_9bf4_00304828b574_9955; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E77437580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:14 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F467580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a081088_92e2_11d8_878d_00304828b574_9952; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB997345622 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 695c0b12_92e2_11d8_97c5_00304828b574_9949; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B17F19AC8; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A5B719AB2; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:49:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70265199D9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from prunelle.tombob.com (82-41-200-130.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.200.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 139F5199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37e1cff69173444f0e0db8e49d31a972@tombob.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:48:24 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > so how do I do ctags in acme? I still drop back into vi for the ^[/^t > stuff (tags stack -- very handy for me anyway). Oh crikey, now you're taking me back 7 years. I haven't done much C in recent years. I shall see if I can dig around in my archives to revive my ailing memory. I think it might actually have been cscope and not ctags that I used. In the meantime, you can get very good mileage out of glimpse. I use it all the time to browse the multi-lingual source base I work on, using nightly updated indices. Robby From eli@cs.wisc.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:50:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7eaf3386_92e2_11d8_8db0_00304828b574_9995; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9812345624 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e78b3a6_92e2_11d8_87ff_00304828b574_9992; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC5517580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8370A7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e38fb76_92e2_11d8_8651_00304828b574_9989; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60951345624 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d6be546_92e2_11d8_8005_00304828b574_9986; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:50:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E79581A107; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC2D619C1E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:49:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BA6D5199DB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sabe.cs.wisc.edu (sabe.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.6.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0287D199BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.wisc.edu (c66.168.31.229.mad.wi.charter.com [66.168.31.229]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by sabe.cs.wisc.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3KFm1108415 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128 bits) verified NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:48:01 -0500 Message-ID: <40856130.7040708@cs.wisc.edu> From: Eli Collins User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:43:12 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ron minnich wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > > >>debian managed to shoot themselves in the foot with some libc, >>some time back. you couldn't go forward 'cos other stuff would >>break and you couldn't go back 'cos more stuff would break. > > > gets better. Symbols are now versioned (well, this really happened a few > years back). So you are very tightly screwed (good word) to the library > you use, and it covers a definite range forward/backward. I assume but am > not sure that glibc nowadays encompaesses lots of versions of lots of > functions going back for years. Which also means the version naming of the > file (libc-2.3.2.so) has a lot less meaning than it used to. At some > point, given the tight wiring of an executable to the particular library > version, one starts to lose track of just why .so's are still thought to > be a good idea (I mean, on a 1960s-era Burroughs machine with not much > memory, I get it, but ... /bin/cat on my Redhat box at 20K, is not much > smaller than /bin/cat on Plan 9 (22K stripped), and the Plan 9 one doesn't > do symbol fixup every time it runs ...). > > And, as Linus mentioned, TLBs matter. Hmm. Judging by 'ps', cat on linux > needs 256 of them, and cat on Plan 9 needs 6. xclock has got 900 or so, > and Plan 9 clock appears to have 3*30 or so (3 clock procs when you run > clock). > > So you do pay a bit for .so's. You don't gain an > implementation-independent interface for your programs, since the .so is > versioned and the symbols in it are versioned; I wonder what you DO gain? > The theory always was you could swap out a shared library and swap in a > bug-fixed version, which sounds nice until you try it and it fails > miserably (there was a time when this worked ...) > > ron > Why does this no longer work? I've upgraded glibc on a gentoo linux system without much dificulty. I like the simplicity of static linkage but it seems like a nightmare if Oracle had to build/test/ship a new version of their code every time there was a bug in printf or some xml parsing library. Regarding the TLB and SOs, I can't figure out all the fuss either since the TLB is flushed on context switch (on x86 at least). eli From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:53:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6e3a978_92e2_11d8_825e_00304828b574_12295; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F5134562B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6b29fb8_92e2_11d8_8051_00304828b574_12292; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A91967580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F44C7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6713e7e_92e2_11d8_97fa_00304828b574_12289; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7624D34562B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5c84936_92e2_11d8_8e77_00304828b574_12286; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:53:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 310D919AE7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFD8519ADB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:53:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 332B9199CF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E7E19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KFpxik030446 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:51:59 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KFpxp9025814 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:51:59 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KFpwwO019143 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:51:58 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <40856130.7040708@cs.wisc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:51:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Eli Collins wrote: > Regarding the TLB and SOs, I can't figure out all the fuss either since > the TLB is flushed on context switch (on x86 at least). and that's the problem. ron From nmh@despammed.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 00:57:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76ec3f6c_92e3_11d8_9ac0_00304828b574_15352; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72681345638 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76bb6aa4_92e3_11d8_8e54_00304828b574_15349; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 537E87580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085747580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76792e78_92e3_11d8_9c03_00304828b574_15346; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216A0345638 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75d19c62_92e3_11d8_9fbd_00304828b574_15343; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A8CA219AC9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B47E919AD3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64BA119B02; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E689119ADB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFxNz-00002r-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:42:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Nils M Holm Message-ID: Organization: T3X.ORG References: <407fd031$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>, <7d6d12286111e26bf2f2dd3134af698a@9srv.net>, <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:42:03 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Martin Wyser wrote: > How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? [...] I can only speak for myself. It took me about an hour to memorize the basics (chording, discovering -c 1, understanding how commands work), about one day before I switched to acme for most editing tasks, and about a week until I discovered that Edit commands are actually explained in the sam(1) man page (used |sed before). All in all, acme(1) is a very clean interface and should not take too much time to get proficient with. Acme(4) may be a different thing (haven't looked too hard yet). Nils. -- Nils M Holm -- http://www.t3x.org/nmh/ From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 01:13:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2fdfeb2_92e5_11d8_9d56_00304828b574_28460; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F7134564C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b2c82472_92e5_11d8_9c99_00304828b574_28457; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1FCAC7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD467580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b28f25c8_92e5_11d8_91a0_00304828b574_28454; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB77534564C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b1e1a0d8_92e5_11d8_8d31_00304828b574_28451; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7BA9319E8E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C0E6A19BA4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAACD19B74; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5FD4019AA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <470cd428ca4b59ae758c764934935bf0@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <40856130.7040708@cs.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:10:52 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>Oracle had to build/test/ship a new version of their code every time i think they still have to test their software with the changed bit, regardless whether the library is statically or dynamically linked! indeed, i'd have thought one advantage of static linking in that case is that the thing being run is more likely to be the thing that was tested, without (say) a new malloc being substituted by dynamic linking. From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:37 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 01:28:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c07c89d0_92e7_11d8_9d16_00304828b574_11224; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E4A34443B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c04965b4_92e7_11d8_9d1e_00304828b574_11218; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71D15758108; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDFC7580FC for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bdfa0930_92e7_11d8_8c7d_00304828b574_11188; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55EF434443B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed75bcdc_92e6_11d8_8f10_00304828b574_4734; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:22:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB40C19E35; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:22:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EA1D19E94; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:22:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16C4B19CB2; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A396D19BA4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KGL4ik008188 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:04 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KGL4p9010446 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:04 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KGL3wO020629 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:03 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <470cd428ca4b59ae758c764934935bf0@terzarima.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>Oracle had to build/test/ship a new version of their code every time > > i think they still have to test their software with the changed bit, regardless whether the library > is statically or dynamically linked! Look at it this way: see how many vendors ship a shared library with their code. That should answer that question :-) ron From eli@cs.wisc.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 01:41:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9a6cabce_92e9_11d8_8333_00304828b574_23458; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C55344500 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9a39f210_92e9_11d8_8bd7_00304828b574_23455; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D8FDA7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF687580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99fb9c36_92e9_11d8_8d27_00304828b574_23452; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F68344500 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9952a5f4_92e9_11d8_8218_00304828b574_23449; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:41:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D785A19F60; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E60F1A12E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:41:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A528519E8E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wasabi.cs.wisc.edu (wasabi.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.166.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D5C5919D42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (eli@localhost) by wasabi.cs.wisc.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA31325 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:40:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Eli Collins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <470cd428ca4b59ae758c764934935bf0@terzarima.net> Message-ID: References: <470cd428ca4b59ae758c764934935bf0@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:40:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>Oracle had to build/test/ship a new version of their code every time > > i think they still have to test their software with the changed bit, regardless whether the library > is statically or dynamically linked! indeed, i'd have thought one > advantage of static linking in that case is that the thing being run > is more likely to be the thing that was tested, without (say) > a new malloc being substituted by dynamic linking. > For security bugs this is a major disadvantage, because you never want to keep an old copy of the library around. A buffer overflow in strcmp is now present in practically every binary on the system. Security bugs need to be fixed asap -- updating copies of all your applications (which you might not have sources for) just to get rid of a single buffer overflow seems unacceptable. This of course assumes you can easily track different versions of strcmp in all your applications with static linking, which is time intensive at best. From martin.wyser@inf.ethz.ch Wed Apr 21 23:44:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 01:57:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d55415a4_92eb_11d8_93bb_00304828b574_3619; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F13344557 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d522fb68_92eb_11d8_9f15_00304828b574_3616; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AD0A67580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6248C7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4e241d6_92eb_11d8_93f1_00304828b574_3613; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747A5344557 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d43619a6_92eb_11d8_81b2_00304828b574_3610; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:57:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 199DE1A133; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1B0DF1A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C478D1A0A9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 243F519BF3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BFyLq-0000tW-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:44:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Martin Wyser Message-ID: <408550d7$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETHZ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>, <5ac0e057485fe0e345384e49e632132f@tombob.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:40:48 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: >>How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean >>proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. > > > It took me about a week and a half real time (so, maybe 20 odd hours) > to get to the stage where using any other editor was a royal pain in 20 hours turns into 20 weeks at the rate I use plan9. And if it makes other editors a pain in the ass, I may be too risky to learn - too much need of other editors :-) . But I to admit that acme is powerful, once you are used to it, it looks like a powerful tool, and I will try wily, as suggested by Axel Belinfante. > the arse. That time did involve growing my own guide file and writing > a couple of "have to have" scripts for stuff like ctags and the like > (this was wily under Unix at the time). > > Robby From jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 02:12:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb86236a_92ed_11d8_80fd_00304828b574_15517; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086CD34458E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb515f36_92ed_11d8_9a6b_00304828b574_15514; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E84527580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B9C7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb19433a_92ed_11d8_9e11_00304828b574_15511; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBAEE34458E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea719766_92ed_11d8_8259_00304828b574_15508; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:12:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2277919A0D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDC9019F60; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:11:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99CC91A107; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (outside.cs.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 48B1119D5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <883be303d77057955c1a22b8d95e2732@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue Apr 20 11:53:45 EDT 2004, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Eli Collins wrote: > > > Regarding the TLB and SOs, I can't figure out all the fuss either since > > the TLB is flushed on context switch (on x86 at least). > > and that's the problem. > > ron Plan 9 on the x86 does not do a very good job of managing the TLB, when the port was done there was only the option of flushing it entirely. Better code for the modern variants may happen. From plan9@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:38 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 02:14:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e4e5600_92ee_11d8_9ccd_00304828b574_16415; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048713445A0 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1df8e616_92ee_11d8_93e1_00304828b574_16325; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E44687580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E527580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1dc677d0_92ee_11d8_9a64_00304828b574_16322; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67A83445A0 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:13:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d1857ea_92ee_11d8_92fc_00304828b574_16319; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:14:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A19BB1A112; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8783E19E09; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:13:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B6EA19AE7; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from prunelle.tombob.com (82-41-200-130.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [82.41.200.130]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4050E19999 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <72cf5a12345c5a9691ef270e5882c6c6@tombob.com> To: martin.wyser@inf.ethz.ch, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: plan9@blueyonder.co.uk In-Reply-To: <408550d7$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:12:29 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 20 hours turns into 20 weeks at the rate I use plan9. And if it makes > other editors a pain in the ass, I may be too risky to learn - too much > need of other editors :-) . > > But I to admit that acme is powerful, once you are used to it, it looks > like a powerful tool, and I will try wily, as suggested by Axel Belinfante. Admittedly, I was being a bit over the top. I can still cope with vi, and I could never get the hang of emacs in the first place. One of the first things I do on every machine I work on, is install sam (even did that on a course on Java programming I took ages ago, the guy teaching the course was slightly puzzled when he saw me not using the IDE). I would recommend trying out the new P9 port to Unix instead of wily. The colour scheme alone is gorgeous. Although, I can now no longer easily distinguish my drawterm to my home machine from my work desktop. Robby From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 02:23:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e564b2e_92ef_11d8_8424_00304828b574_24113; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6C73445D4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7dc5719e_92ef_11d8_87c7_00304828b574_24101; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BCEA8758101; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773F17580FF for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d52e890_92ef_11d8_8a0e_00304828b574_24097; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269C23445D4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c656f02_92ef_11d8_889c_00304828b574_24072; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89DB11A112; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6004B199F4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:23:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7DC241A00F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1CA9C199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <72cf5a12345c5a9691ef270e5882c6c6@tombob.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:22:12 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I would recommend trying out the new P9 port to Unix instead of wily. > The colour scheme alone is gorgeous. Although, I can now no longer > easily distinguish my drawterm to my home machine from my work > desktop. that's why i've stuck with 9wm for now -- it got too confusing having two separate desktops that look exactly the same (vnc)... if i'm ever forced to live outside Plan 9 i know i'll be using p9port's rio though :) andrey From eli@cs.wisc.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 02:35:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2857b206_92f1_11d8_9b75_00304828b574_1181; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8850C34461D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 28227636_92f1_11d8_8f28_00304828b574_1178; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 71FA07580FB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273757580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 27e5c51a_92f1_11d8_8f4b_00304828b574_1174; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3207534461D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 27353ede_92f1_11d8_9b17_00304828b574_1169; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:35:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0031F19B3E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 381811A147; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:35:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47FFA19B3E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wasabi.cs.wisc.edu (wasabi.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.166.35]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F0D5A19D44 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (eli@localhost) by wasabi.cs.wisc.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA31521 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:34:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Eli Collins To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <883be303d77057955c1a22b8d95e2732@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: References: <883be303d77057955c1a22b8d95e2732@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:34:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > On Tue Apr 20 11:53:45 EDT 2004, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Eli Collins wrote: > > > > > Regarding the TLB and SOs, I can't figure out all the fuss either since > > > the TLB is flushed on context switch (on x86 at least). > > > > and that's the problem. > > > > ron > > Plan 9 on the x86 does not do a very good job of managing the TLB, when > the port was done there was only the option of flushing it entirely. Better > code for the modern variants may happen. > Where could it be improved? My understanding is that on x86 the TLB needs to be flushed entirely on context switch regardless of the OS (unless you want to carve up the 4GB linear address space among all proceses and use segmentation registers). From jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 02:40:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2ba49ba_92f1_11d8_906e_00304828b574_5311; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92ADE3445E9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e22061e2_92f1_11d8_838c_00304828b574_5305; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2926A7580FD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6B47580FC for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e11e377e_92f1_11d8_9e61_00304828b574_5295; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA0A3445E9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d24cac4e_92f1_11d8_8393_00304828b574_5130; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:40:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E26B1A15E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7BE01A152; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A251C1A14D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (outside.cs.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88BEA1A14C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:39:32 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: It is flushed entirely at other times (like on a page fault) when it doesn't need to be. The instructions to do that didn't exist on the original 386. On Tue Apr 20 13:35:46 EDT 2004, eli@cs.wisc.edu wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > > > > On Tue Apr 20 11:53:45 EDT 2004, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote: > > > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Eli Collins wrote: > > > > > > > Regarding the TLB and SOs, I can't figure out all the fuss either since > > > > the TLB is flushed on context switch (on x86 at least). > > > > > > and that's the problem. > > > > > > ron > > > > Plan 9 on the x86 does not do a very good job of managing the TLB, when > > the port was done there was only the option of flushing it entirely. Better > > code for the modern variants may happen. > > > > Where could it be improved? My understanding is that on x86 the TLB needs > to be flushed entirely on context switch regardless of the OS (unless you > want to carve up the 4GB linear address space among all proceses and use > segmentation registers). > From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:39 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 03:05:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 55b727d2_92f5_11d8_901a_00304828b574_29762; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA99F3446B2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5586b03e_92f5_11d8_8a76_00304828b574_29759; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 89F487580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4B27580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 554a689a_92f5_11d8_8657_00304828b574_29756; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DD33446B2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 549c580e_92f5_11d8_9460_00304828b574_29753; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:05:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9FA8619D28; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5119A1A14E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:05:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36A0619E84; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9FB3F19D28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so440cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.10 with SMTP id v10mr1271cwb; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9port on linux (i386) suse 9.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <87y8oqzn5l.fsf@ibm-linux.6test.edu.cn> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:57:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I found _threadgetproc()->thread->stk is modified by XCreateBitMap > in x11-init.c accidently. Since I am a newbie to both X programming > and plan9, I can't tell why this happens indeed, but the > following change can workaround it. > > - pmid = XCreatePixmap(_x.display, _x.drawable, 1, 1, 1); > + pmid = XCreatePixmap(_x.display, _x.drawable, Dx(r), Dy(r), _x.depth); > > My XFree's version is 4.3.99, carried by SuSE 9.1. > > If anyone can help to debug, I can provide more details on this problem. I'm surprised that works at all. The point of pmid is to provide a 1-bit bitmap for use in creating the gc contexts on the next few lines. You're probably tickling some memory problem. Could you run valgrind and see if it turns anything up? > 2. Acme keeps anonnying me with the following information > > > acme: cannot handle selection request for 'TIMESTAMP' (427) > > Can anyone decrypt this message for me ;( thanks a lot. I just checked in a change that silences this message for this particular case. Russ From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:16:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44f884d6_92ff_11d8_841f_00304828b574_24581; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893FD344729 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44c65b5a_92ff_11d8_87e7_00304828b574_24577; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D4F0D7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5947758107 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4275b12a_92ff_11d8_8d7c_00304828b574_24539; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A316C3446C7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:10:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 65326088_92fe_11d8_88f5_00304828b574_17715; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:10:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C0B21A006; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 241111A141; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5B771A12E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65C411A13A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KJ9oik032451 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:09:50 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KJ9oQ8024673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:09:50 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3KJ9owO028485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:09:50 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <883be303d77057955c1a22b8d95e2732@plan9.bell-labs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:09:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Plan 9 on the x86 does not do a very good job of managing the TLB, when > the port was done there was only the option of flushing it entirely. Better > code for the modern variants may happen. I'm not being real specific I think. I'm just saying that if you have to flush/reload the tlb, it's nicer if your use of tbl is rather small, as it is for Plan 9 programs. ron From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:19:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9be34ccc_92ff_11d8_8e4f_00304828b574_27766; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AE9344499 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ba97db2_92ff_11d8_8d70_00304828b574_27760; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 058417580FE; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:12 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B6D75810A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 984a64ba_92ff_11d8_91eb_00304828b574_27357; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE3E3441F7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c52d40a_92ff_11d8_837b_00304828b574_23384; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CD901A12E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF3351A159; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13D0C1A13F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 63FA319AB5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3KJEbCi021400 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3KJEb8H006389 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3KJEbj05929 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:37 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:22:12 -0600." <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca> References: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:14:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > I would recommend trying out the new P9 port to Unix instead of wily. > > The colour scheme alone is gorgeous. Agreed. With my reference to wily I just tried to point out (hmm... the obvious? oh dear... ) that chording and/or acme style editing can be used (and learning investment pays back) also outside plan 9, (and that this has been the case for a while). With the new port this is even easier and, of course, it makes the plan9 feel outside plan 9 much more complete. the wily tutorial I mentioned might be helpful to new acme users too, though (maybe slightly modified for slight differences between the two) Notwithstanding acme's nice colors, one wily feature I may be missing in acme is the way wily allows you to use variables to keep your tag names short (reducing the need to scroll in tags). If e.g. foo=/long/path/prefix is present in wily's environment, all occurences of /long/path/prefix will be replaced by $foo in tag names, and button3 click on $foo opens a window on /long/path/prefix . I'm sure this and other feature differences hava all been discussed before, either here or on the wily fans list... > > Although, I can now no longer easily distinguish my drawterm to > > my home machine from my work desktop. > > that's why i've stuck with 9wm for now -- it got too confusing having > two separate desktops that look exactly the same (vnc)... Hmm. maybe, but border dragging is something I do not want to miss (gotten too used to it in rio and elsewhere to want to go back) (typing this on a pc at home running plan 9 (booted from the file server at work), in a vnc window connecting to a vnc server on the sun at work - in the vnc session I use the rio port, and type in vi in an xterm. wouldn't want to replace the vnc by an exceed session, though) Axel. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:19:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9c03a710_92ff_11d8_92af_00304828b574_27769; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902FE3441F7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9bd08f38_92ff_11d8_95a3_00304828b574_27763; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5BB89758106; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D0375810E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 989270d4_92ff_11d8_8668_00304828b574_27431; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:19:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF512344499 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38d3b2ca_92ff_11d8_8234_00304828b574_24427; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:16:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9C9A1A169; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 878B21A006; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:16:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B6191A141; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D61171A159 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D52F57465 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:15:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <073901c4270b$6da5ea50$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:12:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Emacs kind of takes me back to the VT-52. you mean the cursor addressed version of teco ;) From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:24:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 620e4bf4_9300_11d8_9d96_00304828b574_31771; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3C9344755 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61d6bc5c_9300_11d8_9190_00304828b574_31768; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B0A447580FB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F2E7580FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61a03f88_9300_11d8_82c2_00304828b574_31764; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76179344755 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60ec3448_9300_11d8_9a17_00304828b574_31759; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 959131A162; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F7A11A169; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:24:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D6BC1A15E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 501171A165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 30A2C575E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:23:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <076801c4270c$931193b0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <40856130.7040708@cs.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:20:39 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I like the simplicity of static linkage but it seems like a nightmare if > Oracle had to build/test/ship a new version of their code every time > there was a bug in printf or some xml parsing library. in this case, the problem lies with oracle. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:36:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1025f5e2_9302_11d8_8212_00304828b574_8700; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69AC0345717 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ff4218e_9302_11d8_8d84_00304828b574_8695; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4C8457580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035CE7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fb41cd8_9302_11d8_9f74_00304828b574_8692; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A218345717 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f0b3a6e_9302_11d8_8bf0_00304828b574_8688; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:36:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B661E19EAF; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3B7319E02; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:36:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 498F019E02; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2637D19EAF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5473D37AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:35:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <077e01c4270e$2781f430$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <470cd428ca4b59ae758c764934935bf0@terzarima.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:31:59 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > A buffer overflow in strcmp is now present in practically every binary on the system. WTF? strcmp() is not exactly _hard_ ... if the system is requires shared libs to be maintainable it is, by definition, unmaintainable. on 1 MIP VAXes we could re-compile the whole kernel in less than 20 minutes. now, on plan 9 you can do it in 20 seconds (or less). From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:39:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79116f5a_9302_11d8_9a60_00304828b574_11614; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6931B34571B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78db4de4_9302_11d8_97a8_00304828b574_11611; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 536157580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAE47580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78a1685e_9302_11d8_9ac7_00304828b574_11608; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E0834571B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77f9dbd4_9302_11d8_8824_00304828b574_11605; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:39:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 904DE1A17B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2E4A1A178; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:39:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E7D461A175; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D93601A174 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 87E22573A3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <078f01c4270e$a1f4d8e0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <408550d7$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:35:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: it took me quite a while to get the hang of sam's 'x', but i wouldn't give it up for anything. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 04:48:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a11bf474_9303_11d8_842c_00304828b574_17889; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:48:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD6134573D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:48:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0e685a0_9303_11d8_96e1_00304828b574_17886; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:48:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F1AEC7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B877580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0a68ba8_9303_11d8_870b_00304828b574_17883; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7B434573D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ffd9c6e_9303_11d8_880f_00304828b574_17880; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFB4A1A172; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DF7FE19B20; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:47:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 20F5919CD1; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB14B19AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 087E95745C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:46:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <07aa01c4270f$b02feca0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:42:57 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > It is flushed entirely at other times (like on a page fault) when it doesn't > need to be. The instructions to do that didn't exist on the original 386. iirc the VAX would let you flush one entry or the whole thing; something not to mess up should you implement copy-on-write fork. From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 05:51:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 854b55a6_930c_11d8_9476_00304828b574_8017; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBA83447FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85139eea_930c_11d8_9645_00304828b574_8014; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C1FFC7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790C07580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84d5e366_930c_11d8_9d2a_00304828b574_8011; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 918243447FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 842e0bc8_930c_11d8_839e_00304828b574_8008; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 380881A13F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6C9319C68; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:51:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 327C019CAD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id E519A19C68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so1770cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.119.47 with SMTP id r47mr2599cwc; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7AF75F22.4366DCA3@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <408550d7$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> <078f01c4270e$a1f4d8e0$0fca7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:50:01 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > it took me quite a while to get the hang of sam's 'x', > but i wouldn't give it up for anything. same here. that's why i put it in acme. life was too hard without it. -rob From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:40 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 06:20:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 905b8fa2_9310_11d8_9424_00304828b574_31887; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3D23457E3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9024fd2a_9310_11d8_9074_00304828b574_31884; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5E8387580FB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130CD7580FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8feb4e9a_9310_11d8_8c01_00304828b574_31881; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1343457E3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f432fc6_9310_11d8_97ce_00304828b574_31878; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBC771A169; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B22751A14B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5446119A0D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 439531A15F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1fe036d7e68bd070b8d68b998e9e9c4c@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] windows drawterm Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:21:49 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: After downloading the core SDK - thanks Brucee (which took over 3 hours to install on my dual 1ghz !) I succesfully compiled drawterm first time I've not snoopied it to check that ssl works though thanks m From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 08:09:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cea82536_931f_11d8_825f_00304828b574_25415; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3453458F6 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce73667a_931f_11d8_9524_00304828b574_25412; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 585367580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117557580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce3b3fd4_931f_11d8_8d25_00304828b574_25409; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFEC3458F6 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd940b06_931f_11d8_8959_00304828b574_25396; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D56F319C3C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D1E7519C1D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9BD1119C89; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36ADB19C3C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C8447573B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:08:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:04:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > how long does it take to recompile the entire system if you have a bug in printf? for how many architectures? i'll bet you it's a lot less woe and time than any oracle/lunix related screwup. someone has the numbers. anyone? From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 08:22:05 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88e9d13c_9321_11d8_9ef4_00304828b574_5071; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6391F3441E2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88b2cfac_9321_11d8_931b_00304828b574_5030; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:04 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9D7E27580F9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:03 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2824758106 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8719774a_9321_11d8_9db8_00304828b574_4831; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:22:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996633441EF for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:17:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec879ba8_9320_11d8_8689_00304828b574_32714; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:17:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 084D21A150; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF64B19F6E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:17:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF34F1A000; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FA4519ECE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:18:52 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: cd /sys/src ; mk install took me about 45 mins on an athlon 800 From geoff@collyer.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 08:27:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4e521380_9322_11d8_8c29_00304828b574_11206; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9E63441C0 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4df86d6c_9322_11d8_960a_00304828b574_11203; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3E2CA7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDAB7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d8a7280_9322_11d8_8ba7_00304828b574_11200; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FDA3441C0 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4cb7e482_9322_11d8_9702_00304828b574_11197; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 017231A169; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F0C51A15F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:27:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EE7E19F81; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 58D9619BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <397aba06b9eefc7cd1cc9bd0077cf5d0@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iseayjfosuccufgftzxvqrewsz" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:26:24 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iseayjfosuccufgftzxvqrewsz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What file server did you use (ken fs, kfs, fossil)? What speed are your Ethernet interfaces? Are they plugged into a switch? 45 minutes seems a little long, though there is a lot of code to compile. --upas-iseayjfosuccufgftzxvqrewsz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.12]) by collyer.net; Tue Apr 20 16:17:47 PDT 2004 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by collyer.net; Tue Apr 20 16:17:46 PDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17A4C1A11B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1D0BB19F2A; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:17:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF34F1A000; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FA4519ECE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:18:52 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: cd /sys/src ; mk install took me about 45 mins on an athlon 800 --upas-iseayjfosuccufgftzxvqrewsz-- From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 08:32:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0075a892_9323_11d8_989a_00304828b574_15141; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABA23448C3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0043a48c_9323_11d8_9db6_00304828b574_15138; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5D4867580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CB57580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0003e842_9323_11d8_9c4f_00304828b574_15135; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3133448C3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ff5c05a0_9322_11d8_991b_00304828b574_15132; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:32:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5ACEB1A17B; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 378681A16D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4FE081A15F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F3FCB1A15F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C4E4573B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:31:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <089301c4272f$32433cf0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <397aba06b9eefc7cd1cc9bd0077cf5d0@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:28:32 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 45 minutes seems a little long, ... nothing, compared to the time needed to read oracle doc. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 08:48:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 386a7e24_9325_11d8_8205_00304828b574_27962; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2459934419C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 377d5324_9325_11d8_9aba_00304828b574_27953; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 44335758107; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76837580FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36bc084a_9325_11d8_92e5_00304828b574_27945; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD0B34419C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:47:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 273a19e8_9325_11d8_8e4a_00304828b574_27057; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:47:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 918C61A182; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B0F0F1A16F; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:47:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E7EA1A16D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8BBD51A165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <54c7434628308198a3cb4b0a7d9131bd@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <397aba06b9eefc7cd1cc9bd0077cf5d0@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:48:57 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I wasn't actually timing it when I did it so it might have finished before I noticed the 45 mins so I should say "in under 45 mins" it was from kfs running on my pentium 150 with 64mb ram my ether is 100mbit switched I was impressed enough with 45mins after previously waiting all night for XFree to compile or the aforementioned 3 hour install of the MS Core SDK files m From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:02:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 379c133e_9327_11d8_8763_00304828b574_7730; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F139C34493F for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3765ccf2_9327_11d8_8130_00304828b574_7727; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DCEA57580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728C17580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37169934_9327_11d8_8511_00304828b574_7724; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC7D34493F for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 366e996e_9327_11d8_9f89_00304828b574_7721; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 839521A186; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 641221A172; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:02:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A93BB1A165; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 31E431A172 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6326b7e3ecccb3d942157a2a91480246@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <54c7434628308198a3cb4b0a7d9131bd@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:59:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>or the aforementioned 3 hour install of the MS Core SDK files i'm sure that when i installed visual whatsit .net from CD it deployed a new `autoboot' feature that allowed it to do the necessary 9 or was it 15 reboots without my having to be there. shame about the one modal dialogue that did appear that suspended it early on! From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:09:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25ffa0c2_9328_11d8_9d05_00304828b574_13891; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4F0344A1C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25ce841a_9328_11d8_8405_00304828b574_13887; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CFDCC7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BCF7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25904286_9328_11d8_84da_00304828b574_13882; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5561344A18 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 24ea4dea_9328_11d8_93a0_00304828b574_13878; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CFDAD19A14; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 42BB719A23; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB2651A188; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 96A871A182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so1799cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.3.58 with SMTP id 58mr5798rnc; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <397aba06b9eefc7cd1cc9bd0077cf5d0@collyer.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:07:31 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 45 minutes seems a little long, though there is a lot of code to > compile. ghostscript takes most of the time, i bet. the nightly builds used to take almost exactly one hour on a fairly fast p4 machine. 386 only. From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:19:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 955a79be_9329_11d8_8dd4_00304828b574_22097; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45971344A94 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95286cc6_9329_11d8_8392_00304828b574_22094; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 282A47580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FC07580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 94e8d020_9329_11d8_9182_00304828b574_22091; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96FC344A98 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 943e0618_9329_11d8_8391_00304828b574_22082; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AD361A180; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D4E919C17; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D66F519CB3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DA4219C17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L0Ikik005889 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:18:46 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L0Ik31003396 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:18:46 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L0IkwO010296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:18:46 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:18:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > > how long does it take to recompile the entire system if you have a bug in > printf? wrong question. On many of these later systems, as I said, app .o is tied to lib .so. So it doesn't matter if you just rebuild the library -- the app may not be fixed because it is tied to (e.g.) GLIBC 2.0 versioned symbols, and the fixed symbols are later versions. So you replace a broken libc.so with a new one, and guess what? not all your apps are fixed. You have to replace the apps anyway, so they'll use the right symbols. Maybe I'm painting a grimmer picture than reality, but that's the way it looks to me. The old goal of shared libs was to provide an implementation-independent interface to a set of functions in a possibly changing library. It's pretty hard to square this goal with the idea of versioned symbols. I've seen cases on some OSes where the vendor told you (to fix a bug) to update the shared library and all the apps -- although the type signature of the fixed function in question had not changed. That's weird. A rebuild of all of gnubin is a rather long process. Best way to find out how long is to build a gentoo linux system. It's interesting. ron From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:24:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44df84ec_932a_11d8_94aa_00304828b574_26506; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3B3344AB4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44aecc94_932a_11d8_85ea_00304828b574_26502; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9FEF67580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602CE7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4475da6a_932a_11d8_94e2_00304828b574_26499; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DC9344AB5 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43cc2ef2_932a_11d8_8e47_00304828b574_26490; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 06C451A18A; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2B0719C93; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C640E19C17; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 86F6D19A14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AE1A5729D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:23:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <08bf01c42736$52a15ac0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:19:30 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: From: "ron minnich" > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > > how long does it take to recompile the entire system if you have a bug in > > printf? no, i didn't! From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:47:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b3a3d0a_932d_11d8_9f13_00304828b574_15190; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C0F34429A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6aef42be_932d_11d8_9d39_00304828b574_15161; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 68063758108; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBDC7580FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 668f200e_932d_11d8_8d82_00304828b574_14702; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4816A3442A1 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:42:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4560d30_932c_11d8_9032_00304828b574_9194; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:42:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52A7019C51; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25B3D1A023; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:41:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A3A11A182; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17D5B19BF0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:40:27 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > someone has the numbers. anyone? Pentium 4, 2.66Ghz, local fossil, only 386 compiled: 450 seconds with the default fossil 320 seconds with a fossil compiled with brucee's non-vlong-challenged compiler that from two weeks ago, could be faster today ;) From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:42 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 09:47:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b030eec_932d_11d8_96f1_00304828b574_15588; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F8734415E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7ac4f54e_932d_11d8_9a3f_00304828b574_15574; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D91E77580FC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B537580FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 783067aa_932d_11d8_8cbe_00304828b574_15543; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:47:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F547344285 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:42:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd4cc23a_932c_11d8_940f_00304828b574_9922; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:42:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6CCDC1A192; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 066A71A18E; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:41:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C007C1A17C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21CD91A182 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Charles Forsyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:38:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: it seems a touch faster building the libraries if you start ramfs first. i get Wed Apr 21 01:17:54 BST 2004 217.64u 158.54s 891.96r mk all h% cat '#P/cputype' # cpu server AMD-Athlon 750 athlon 800 /sys/src/fs file server, scsi drives, 128mb ram i didn't do a mk install just a mk all >/dev/null, after a ramfs and mk clean From mailsecurity@drugstore.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 10:01:21 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6759dfcc_932f_11d8_955a_00304828b574_28324; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD73D34496E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66f87b60_932f_11d8_8a61_00304828b574_28321; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A3F947580FC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551857580FB for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66b735d8_932f_11d8_8e88_00304828b574_28318; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:01:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6903134496E for ; 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Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:09 -0700 thread-index: AcQnO9qd0FUDlCRURJufa83Xk2IXUA== Thread-Topic: Symantec Mail Security detected that you sent a message containing prohibited attachment (SYM:09797344860254128733) From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <1201501c4273b$da9d6b80$8406000a@corp.drugstore.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Apr 2004 00:59:09.0924 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAB7AA40:01C4273B] Subject: [9fans] Symantec Mail Security detected that you sent a message containing prohibited attachment (SYM:09797344860254128733) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:59:09 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SUBJ_HAS_SPACES, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Subject of the message: Re: Thank you for delivery Recipient of the message: "associates@drugstore.com" From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:10:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15fc6ff0_9339_11d8_884d_00304828b574_27129; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76DDB344296 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15c16d56_9339_11d8_88e6_00304828b574_27125; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5A9EC7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CAF7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 157be9fc_9339_11d8_999d_00304828b574_27119; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205D234428F for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14d42ad2_9339_11d8_8d52_00304828b574_27116; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:10:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1B5D1A196; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D5FB1A183; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 377F41A183; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BCC0A1A187 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L29Bik017792 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:09:11 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L29BQ8007847 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:09:11 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L29AwO013685 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:09:11 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <08bf01c42736$52a15ac0$0fca7d50@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:09:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > no, i didn't! It's some dude's mailer -- it is misquoting things. Sorry. ron From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:45:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb37f7a2_933d_11d8_84cc_00304828b574_23389; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AD4344CCA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fad70e06_933d_11d8_8707_00304828b574_23381; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B26647580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F077580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa9c5644_933d_11d8_8ecc_00304828b574_23375; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80487344CCA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9f3dcee_933d_11d8_84e2_00304828b574_23360; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E159019E74; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D30B19B8D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:45:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4149D19B8D; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE74719AF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.202.15]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CC2A573EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:22:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <094801c42747$4485b0b0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:20:06 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > It's some dude's mailer -- it is misquoting things. undoubtably, but if i need to be shot in the foot i'd rather do it myself ;) if you want a job done properly ... From jkw@eecs.harvard.edu Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:49:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80d6e670_933e_11d8_8343_00304828b574_26492; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03896344CD8 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8079618a_933e_11d8_8aa2_00304828b574_26489; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D665F7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9B87580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8036ecb0_933e_11d8_803f_00304828b574_26482; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4543344CD8 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7f8e1d92_933e_11d8_934d_00304828b574_26479; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:49:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9765E19CA9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC9BF19BB3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 35DC619CA9; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1BA1A19BB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219A024FE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1CF9F29; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:16:51 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Message-ID: <20040420121651.GA21521@mero.morphisms.net> References: <7d6d12286111e26bf2f2dd3134af698a@9srv.net> <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40850780$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 12:07:11PM +0000, Martin Wyser wrote: > How many hours will it take me get proficient with ACME? I mean > proficient, so I do not have to resort to my previous editor again. My experience the summer I used Acme almost exclusively was that I could be productive in about thirty minutes. My real "problem" with acme was that after a day or two using it I kept wondering why the mouse never worked in X11 or Windows; it took me a while to realize that I was trying to use the Acme mouse gestures in the old environment. Were it not for the fact that I use the console because of the larger fonts and general laziness, I'd use Acme under Unix exclusively now. In fact, when I use X11 for anything other than web browser (rare), I do use Acme under Inferno. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:52:32 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef500a8c_933e_11d8_8fce_00304828b574_29278; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8643A344CE7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef0fd94e_933e_11d8_84ca_00304828b574_29275; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 737227580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9867580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eed8481c_933e_11d8_8d08_00304828b574_29272; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4606F344CEA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee3074f2_933e_11d8_8b8b_00304828b574_29264; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 085D31A0EB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4815719EFC; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 714DC19E2C; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 266AA19BB3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:27:16 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: soliciting opinion -- how many of you would like to have the ability to search through the text in a rio terminal? i find the need mostly when browsing through large man pages. would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? andrey From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:56:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76918282_933f_11d8_98ee_00304828b574_32435; 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Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:56:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E9B019AAB; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38E6A19A85; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:55:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 016321A0CD; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 74EC819E2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27080 invoked by uid 89); 21 Apr 2004 02:44:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 02:44:13 -0000 Message-ID: <4085E2FB.40702@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 References: <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> In-Reply-To: <9410b2072d859058157843977ca7811c@9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:56:59 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable gee i really want to download a huge amount of stuff that *only works on windows* to somewhere else. and i have defective knowledge of downloading using my non-IE browser. wake up. brucee a@9srv.net wrote: > // happy disk filling! >=20 > i'd worked up the courage to look at the code, to satisfy my > curiosity. then i firmly clenched my jaw in preparation for > poluting my otherwise clean system with microsoft crap, and > went seeking the download. but ah! you cannont get anything > from there without IE running on a PC! thank you, microsoft, > for saving me from my weakness and helping to preserve the > purity of my system. > =E3=82=A2 From robpike@gmail.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 11:59:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb39b032_933f_11d8_91db_00304828b574_2380; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFE1344D05 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb049f0a_933f_11d8_9ba5_00304828b574_2377; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2D23C7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D904A7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eacb85d0_933f_11d8_89a2_00304828b574_2374; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F169C344D05 for ; 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Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <79A6169D.58F1B604@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:58:21 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? i think so. -rob From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 12:25:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8777f794_9343_11d8_9aa3_00304828b574_28807; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7A13442F5 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 872e20a6_9343_11d8_848a_00304828b574_28803; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 51711758105; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB197580FC for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81d31b7a_9343_11d8_87db_00304828b574_28701; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F09B344A17 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:17:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ec85230_9342_11d8_8c1d_00304828b574_19867; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:17:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B054819B41; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C73EE19AB0; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:17:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69FC719AF5; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1720F19AAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22302 invoked by uid 89); 21 Apr 2004 03:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 03:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <4085E81A.4070702@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: <6326b7e3ecccb3d942157a2a91480246@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <6326b7e3ecccb3d942157a2a91480246@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:18:50 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: i installed both VC and SDK without a reboot. am i just having a good week? laugh all you like but now i have a windows inferno that compiles/works against a known and free toolchain (i hate that word). brucee Charles Forsyth wrote: >>>or the aforementioned 3 hour install of the MS Core SDK files > > > i'm sure that when i installed visual whatsit .net from CD it deployed a new `autoboot' feature > that allowed it to do the necessary 9 or was it 15 reboots without my having to be there. > shame about the one modal dialogue that did appear that suspended it early on! From brucee@chunder.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 12:25:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 973aadde_9343_11d8_8c1d_00304828b574_29006; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55831344522 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97094a46_9343_11d8_99b2_00304828b574_29000; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 41C1575810D; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3CFF758109 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8bf0caa8_9343_11d8_98f5_00304828b574_28876; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79F63449B1 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:23:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4621e912_9343_11d8_8395_00304828b574_26596; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:23:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 74E55199B3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54BFB199B3; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:23:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6D72F19B25; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wmail.atlantic.net (wmail.atlantic.net [209.208.112.158]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 2908319B4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7657 invoked by uid 89); 21 Apr 2004 03:12:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chunder.com) (brucee@chunder.com@61.9.198.183) by wmail.atlantic.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 03:12:29 -0000 Message-ID: <4085E99C.7000101@chunder.com> From: Bruce Ellis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:25:16 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: wow! good result - i'll post an update that catches a hidden _testv gotcha (not a bug just a speedup). thanks for the testing! brucee andrey mirtchovski wrote: >>someone has the numbers. anyone? > > > Pentium 4, 2.66Ghz, local fossil, only 386 compiled: > > 450 seconds with the default fossil > 320 seconds with a fossil compiled with brucee's > non-vlong-challenged compiler > > that from two weeks ago, could be faster today ;) From ncj@mcs.vuw.ac.nz Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 12:38:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 600c11b6_9345_11d8_9d89_00304828b574_6817; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8A5344A80 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5fdb549a_9345_11d8_9017_00304828b574_6814; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9ED0E7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D117580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5f9af1d4_9345_11d8_892e_00304828b574_6811; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B449344A80 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ef1eb52_9345_11d8_982b_00304828b574_6808; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7992C19B58; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2137119B26; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A4D5A19A11; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kaukau.mcs.vuw.ac.nz (kaukau.mcs.vuw.ac.nz [130.195.5.20]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA99219B13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from square-affair.mcs.vuw.ac.nz (square-affair.mcs.vuw.ac.nz [130.195.5.170]) by kaukau.mcs.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3L3bbuT028808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:37:38 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by square-affair.mcs.vuw.ac.nz (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) id i3L3bbwk010311 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:37:37 +1200 (NZST) From: Nick Jamieson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404211537.37526.ncj@mcs.vuw.ac.nz> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:37:37 +1200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i find the need mostly when browsing through large man pages. #!/bin/rc man $* >[2=1] | acme -c 1 '#d/0' Nick From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 12:44:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 357838ac_9346_11d8_912b_00304828b574_11615; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1766344CFD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35418136_9346_11d8_9e58_00304828b574_11612; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B1C6C7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684E37580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 35099ac8_9346_11d8_977a_00304828b574_11609; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E372344CFD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 34604e8c_9346_11d8_9074_00304828b574_11606; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60C7119B26; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E465419B77; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCCAA19B25; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70DE419A11 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L3hNik023937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:43:23 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L3hMQ8027245 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:43:22 -0600 Received: from pinkish.lanl.gov (pinkish.lanl.gov [128.165.250.189]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L3hMwO016752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:43:22 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <094801c42747$4485b0b0$0fca7d50@SOMA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:43:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > > It's some dude's mailer -- it is misquoting things. > > undoubtably, but if i need to be shot in the foot i'd rather do it myself ;) actually the dude in question was me, but let's not get into it. ron From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 12:58:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ac48bfc_9348_11d8_9e53_00304828b574_23309; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20B7344256 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a924d0e_9348_11d8_9f9a_00304828b574_23306; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B60087580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE6F7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a5387c2_9348_11d8_8838_00304828b574_23303; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BA8344256 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 29ab6fe2_9348_11d8_90bd_00304828b574_23300; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:58:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABF8F19BE2; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89D3719B93; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:58:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 67C7E19BA8; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1612219B77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3L3vW7i030574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:57:32 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i3L3vWWW030570 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:57:32 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <79A6169D.58F1B604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:57:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote: > > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? > > i think so. > > -rob > how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the 'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, and i admit myself always searching for a empty 'grey' area to click on when i want to open a new terminal, but it's a more drastical change so i omitted it originally... andrey From Roman.Shaposhnick@Sun.COM Wed Apr 21 23:44:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 13:06:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 47c6c85e_9349_11d8_8f5b_00304828b574_29731; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0653A344D8A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4794953c_9349_11d8_8ed0_00304828b574_29728; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DD5777580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9333B7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4753d81c_9349_11d8_8078_00304828b574_29725; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E58E344D8A for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 468fcecc_9349_11d8_8389_00304828b574_29722; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C4E219BF0; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AAFE719BC4; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D122A19BCD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06FDF19B66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-mpk-2 ([129.146.11.82]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3L45u6b023927 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goose.sfbay.sun.com (vpn-129-150-17-163.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.17.163]) by mpk-mail1.sfbay.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HWI00FFD61WLE@mpk-mail1.sfbay.sun.com> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by goose.sfbay.sun.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:15:25 -0700 From: Roman Shaposhnick Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-reply-to: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <20040421031525.GC11456@goose.eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i References: <79A6169D.58F1B604@mail.gmail.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:15:25 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 09:57:32PM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote: > > > > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? > > > > i think so. > > > > -rob > > > > how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the > 'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, and i admit myself always > searching for a empty 'grey' area to click on when i want to open a new > terminal, but it's a more drastical change so i omitted it originally... you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though, has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ? Thanks, Roman. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Wed Apr 21 23:44:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 13:41:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26cd35a2_934e_11d8_9959_00304828b574_28744; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3198E344312 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 269d713c_934e_11d8_8ec8_00304828b574_28741; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4CD777580FB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA03E758109 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2401509c_934e_11d8_9d97_00304828b574_28716; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:41:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFCA344B02 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:35:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 516e29b6_934d_11d8_8bf2_00304828b574_22268; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:35:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7382319C1F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 541D619BE5; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:35:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09ED019BD6; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88D1A19B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3L4Y97i030655 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:34:09 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i3L4Y9gD030651 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:34:09 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs From: andrey mirtchovski To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <20040421031525.GC11456@goose.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:34:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Roman Shaposhnick wrote: > you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though, > has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ? > I'm not really considering taking out the "New|Resize|etc"... Note that sam already has 'look' in the middle button menu, so we won't be setting a precedent. The text window has 6 entries in the menu, same as a terminal, but the command window has 7 -- cut, paste, snarf, plumb, look, , send... andrey ps: drastic? radical? nah, drastical! From rminnich@lanl.gov Wed Apr 21 23:44:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 13:44:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96a64d1e_934e_11d8_8899_00304828b574_32663; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4497344A66 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 966f0be2_934e_11d8_91a3_00304828b574_32659; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DC48C7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32197580FD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93693a4e_934e_11d8_9851_00304828b574_32555; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:44:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECCE344E01 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:37:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97b51592_934d_11d8_9c18_00304828b574_24375; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:37:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C80BD19C28; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5636219BF0; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4649D19BCD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D8AA719B17 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L4aeik027258 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:36:40 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L4aep9025096 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:36:40 -0600 Received: from pinkish.lanl.gov (pinkish.lanl.gov [128.165.250.189]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3L4aewO018578 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:36:40 -0600 From: "Ronald G. Minnich" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <20040421031525.GC11456@goose.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:36:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Roman Shaposhnick wrote: > you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though, > has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ? depends on productively and what it means. But my 85-year-old dad loves his 5-button mouse. To each his own. ron From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 21 23:44:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 15:07:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33878296_935a_11d8_87b4_00304828b574_8902; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A3534481E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33518e2a_935a_11d8_9ce0_00304828b574_8899; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C414F7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F81A7580FE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30e1f4cc_935a_11d8_9870_00304828b574_8866; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E48344A56 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:00:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3bb562fe_9359_11d8_88fb_00304828b574_1040; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:00:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B028319CD8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B91919C85; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:00:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 214B119C6F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (sparkle.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A560319C28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3L5xUD08054 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:59:31 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <73e035486b7fbeb6b1a216c396bc2ba5@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:59:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > soliciting opinion -- how many of you would like to have the ability > to search through the text in a rio terminal? I have certainly wanted to, frequently. But it seems to me to be more appropriate to solicit opinion on how to cause acme, rio and sam to converge into a single, most likely customisable, desktop management tool. Not that I expect a single solution, but I'm sure a few productive souls would run off with some of the ideas and return with exciting new concepts. Just my 2 cents' worth. Plan 9 seems to encourage thinking outside even its own box. ++L From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 15:48:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e8ab7254_935f_11d8_8429_00304828b574_11491; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA13E344FD6 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e879dd98_935f_11d8_91fc_00304828b574_11488; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BC4BE7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730B67580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e8395b06_935f_11d8_876a_00304828b574_11485; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5DE344FD6 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e790d346_935f_11d8_8853_00304828b574_11480; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:48:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DE42C19D34; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 91654199DB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:48:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 44BCE19CE9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C696019CA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <431f0d54a403b3e22c624f3de62941eb@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:47:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Notwithstanding acme's nice colors, one wily feature > I may be missing in acme is the way wily allows > you to use variables to keep your tag names short I've seen wily name your buffers $CWD/blah, which is a nightmare. Same with other variables. I was a fan of wily usage of environment variables until it did bite me a couple of times with this issue. From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 16:25:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07c90eb2_9365_11d8_8c89_00304828b574_11372; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1874E344926 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06b5920c_9365_11d8_9600_00304828b574_11360; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C5CC8758101; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631977580FB for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 064b93f2_9365_11d8_905f_00304828b574_11320; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:25:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B43B344F73 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:20:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 62f51566_9364_11d8_8a31_00304828b574_6204; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:20:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C56D19CEC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B56DC19D53; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:20:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BED3E19D0E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4019819CDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3L7JMCi022783 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3L7JM8H014359 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3L7JNs09837 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:23 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404210719.i3L7JNs09837@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:47:36 +0200." <431f0d54a403b3e22c624f3de62941eb@plan9.escet.urjc.es> References: <431f0d54a403b3e22c624f3de62941eb@plan9.escet.urjc.es> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:19:22 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > Notwithstanding acme's nice colors, one wily feature > > I may be missing in acme is the way wily allows > > you to use variables to keep your tag names short > > I've seen wily name your buffers $CWD/blah, > which is a nightmare. Same with other variables. > I was a fan of wily usage of environment variables > until it did bite me a couple of times with this issue. I use a wrapper function to start wily; it explicitly undefines those variables that bit me. Then it works fine for me. (apart from the fact that for buffers named as $VAR, button3 on .. would no longer take me upwards. Never took the time to look into that, though. ) I also liked the possibility to button3 on e.g. $PLAN9/src . Hmm. could that be done via the plumber, or would it need changes in acme? Axel. From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 16:54:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25be3ed4_9369_11d8_975f_00304828b574_5141; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB76A34509C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 258d7178_9369_11d8_9e2b_00304828b574_5138; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AC7C77580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635C57580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 254c58e6_9369_11d8_9eda_00304828b574_5135; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B41234509C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 24a3f2d2_9369_11d8_9a90_00304828b574_5132; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:54:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0341619E5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB08719DFA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:54:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9FD319DA7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75D2A19DE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200404210719.i3L7JNs09837@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:53:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I also liked the possibility to button3 on e.g. $PLAN9/src . This is different. (although we might have problems to plumb messages that already include $). However, having wily on its own replace /x/y/z with $A/z is something that bothers me. (I did also the trick of undef PWD, but then other shells defined other variables, ... ugh). From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 17:30:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 321e0a42_936e_11d8_9ecb_00304828b574_2843; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE9C345111 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31eac15a_936e_11d8_921c_00304828b574_2840; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EB8A77580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F60A7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31a274a4_936e_11d8_90ea_00304828b574_2837; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AE4345111 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 30d315ec_936e_11d8_85f3_00304828b574_2834; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:30:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F07219B7F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D24B19B1C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:30:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD37219ACA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74345199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3L8TXCi000106 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3L8TX8H021235 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3L8TXI10302 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404210829.i3L8TXI10302@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:53:25 +0200." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > I also liked the possibility to button3 on e.g. $PLAN9/src . > > This is different. (although we might have problems to plumb messages > that already include $). (to state the obvous: I like it because scripts, readmes and similar text may contain references just like that.) I also have handful of variables for 'deep' subdirs I often visit. > However, having wily on its own replace > /x/y/z with $A/z is something that bothers me. (I did also the trick of > undef PWD, but then other shells defined other variables, ... ugh). I see your point. I only use a few shells, and after a while you know what to undef. The number of accidental replacements were in my case minimal. Would you be happy if you could explicitly specify the replacements? (or would that only increase complexity?) Maybe my problem is that my dir/file names are longer than x, y or z, (rooted path to home dir already takes 18 characters) So, for me, the replacements save screen (tag) space. Also, for the often-visited subdirs, the path represented by $A is of no particular interest to me, the information is in the file/dir name to the right of the $A/ (the z in your example). So, $A instead of /this/long/path/to/where/I/start/working just gives me space I can use as scratch space without having to scroll in the tag. Axel. From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 17:51:10 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09469f00_9371_11d8_8212_00304828b574_22543; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD56E344408 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 08e26922_9371_11d8_8db6_00304828b574_22503; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7EEAD7580F9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:08 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA3C758101 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06b3e9be_9371_11d8_824f_00304828b574_22268; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:51:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D224934440D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:45:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 412de8c0_9370_11d8_8ddb_00304828b574_16329; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:45:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E3AC19D0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF6B419C5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3F89219C1E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 55F8A19A92 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <200404210829.i3L8TXI10302@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bstrguflqdspevovryraswvlht" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:44:35 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bstrguflqdspevovryraswvlht Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought about giving replacement strings to avoid those long paths, but in a controlled way. Eg, like saying /a/long/path/imported/from/somewhere/else -> /alongpath and then seing aroung /alongpath instead of the other and making wily make the change. Regarding acme, it doesn't bother me much as to like to change the current behaviour. --upas-bstrguflqdspevovryraswvlht Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Apr 21 10:30:57 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D17DF19AFD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DE71019AFD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:30:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD37219ACA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74345199DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3L8TXCi000106 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3L8TX8H021235 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3L8TXI10302 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404210829.i3L8TXI10302@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:53:25 +0200." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:33 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > I also liked the possibility to button3 on e.g. $PLAN9/src . > > This is different. (although we might have problems to plumb messages > that already include $). (to state the obvous: I like it because scripts, readmes and similar text may contain references just like that.) I also have handful of variables for 'deep' subdirs I often visit. > However, having wily on its own replace > /x/y/z with $A/z is something that bothers me. (I did also the trick of > undef PWD, but then other shells defined other variables, ... ugh). I see your point. I only use a few shells, and after a while you know what to undef. The number of accidental replacements were in my case minimal. Would you be happy if you could explicitly specify the replacements? (or would that only increase complexity?) Maybe my problem is that my dir/file names are longer than x, y or z, (rooted path to home dir already takes 18 characters) So, for me, the replacements save screen (tag) space. Also, for the often-visited subdirs, the path represented by $A is of no particular interest to me, the information is in the file/dir name to the right of the $A/ (the z in your example). So, $A instead of /this/long/path/to/where/I/start/working just gives me space I can use as scratch space without having to scroll in the tag. Axel. --upas-bstrguflqdspevovryraswvlht-- From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 17:54:03 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70117548_9371_11d8_8e28_00304828b574_25649; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D068344238 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6fe1279e_9371_11d8_85eb_00304828b574_25639; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AC3BF758102; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0828758100 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:53:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6d95c09e_9371_11d8_8e61_00304828b574_25457; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:53:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3777634451E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:47:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8be44d50_9370_11d8_9474_00304828b574_18521; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:47:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E1BE19D7C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71F0719B01; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:47:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1392619DFB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1259419C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <614d87cf956734c6ee5dbb8fce761fb9@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:48:48 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > how many of you would like to have the ability to search through the text in a rio terminal? I have oft wanted that, reproducing the output in acme so I can search it > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? you can get rid of cut, paste & snarf for me - I use chording :) putting it on button 2 makes it inconsistent with 3 in Acme, I already get tripped up enough pressing escape in the shell to delete and having my activity screwed up when RAW goes off (usually when writing an email, luckily it doesn't get sent but you do have to kill the window and start again) If one deletes a window with 3, and then middle clicks on another window to search, instinctively pressing 3 to repeat the search will kill that window as delete has become the default action for 3 thats that :) m From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 17:56:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf5b3d32_9371_11d8_8322_00304828b574_28555; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816D6344164 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bf2adade_9371_11d8_9f56_00304828b574_28551; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3E4E8758110; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:12 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8107580FD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bab6db92_9371_11d8_849e_00304828b574_28147; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77C53442AD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:50:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2bb6400_9370_11d8_8789_00304828b574_21761; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:50:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8AEC119DA7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD72219C1E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:50:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAB7C19CE6; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8837C19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f217cd38b52a8206601b6168035ba6b@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <4085E81A.4070702@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:51:47 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i installed both VC and SDK without a reboot. am i just having a good week? me too I did wonder why MS decided to change the appearance of the dialog controls seems each developer will now be free to choose his/her own inconsistent button colours m From a@9srv.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 17:56:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c7257a78_9371_11d8_973a_00304828b574_28635; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9081A3441E7 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6e3bbce_9371_11d8_99be_00304828b574_28628; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B82D07580FF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF67C758113 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c12f5d8c_9371_11d8_9f08_00304828b574_28579; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:56:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E47534434B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85075e18_9371_11d8_8ff3_00304828b574_26428; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 195F419E06; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73FCF19C1E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:54:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A01319CDC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C4E19C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12c63e4238729e9b41a0d889d51485c9@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:45:26 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'd love having Look in rio. i've made two or three half-hearted passes at doing it myself over the last few years, but never finished any of them. my solution to it making the button 2 menu too croweded was to remove the cut/snarf/paste options in favor of chording. in one of my passes at Look, i had the menu changed (-cut/snarf/past, +non-functional look) and i didn't look for the missing options once. but i realize that's a solution many here would hate. maybe options for including sets of features? the addition of plumb was, i think, quite noticable. =E3=82=A2 From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:07:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c71ff9c_9373_11d8_80a3_00304828b574_5330; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC0434514C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c3899d2_9373_11d8_91ad_00304828b574_5327; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 62E777580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF727580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5bfa3e9e_9373_11d8_9a53_00304828b574_5324; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327D034514C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b51bce2_9373_11d8_9800_00304828b574_5320; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A5CA19E06; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1DC4219B5E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:07:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36BBD19B5E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3C4219A7A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2c1fd0d1b8e3ce674c5b39a3748861a3@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] something for you In-Reply-To: <20040421085850.CF47F19C1E@mail.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:09:00 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Received: from cse.psu.edu (unknown [81.2.122.217]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id CF47F19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:58:50 -0400 (EDT) From: cupid@adultfriendfinder.com so lonely .... so lonely well, at least you have viruses to find you friends m From diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:14:05 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3c79d2e0_9374_11d8_9391_00304828b574_10497; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E2D345163 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b5a4ea8_9374_11d8_801d_00304828b574_10375; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:03 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5997B75810C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94198758107 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 39f9e6ae_9374_11d8_9ae6_00304828b574_10220; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D20345161 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:13:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37024c48_9374_11d8_9a3b_00304828b574_10139; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:13:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F9EB19D0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C23F219AA9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:13:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0803519C20; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8471B19D06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGDeE-0000zB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Diego Calleja Message-ID: <20040420204032.12a9eac7.diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE05618B@black.aprote.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:20 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: El Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:59:26 GMT t.lankots@aprote.ee (Tiit Lankots) escribi= =F3: > One of the raison d'=EAtres of Plan 9 is the _absence_ of such things. If= you want Linux, use Linux; if you want Plan 9, use Plan 9. Conceptual impu= rity is an evil, and not a necessary one. heh, good answer :) > P.S. The desktop metaphor is a relict. Actually, it never quite worked, b= ut most people don't care to notice. Plan 9 is ahead of it's time by a good= 30 years (sigh). Plan9 is not ahead of anything. It's most of the world who is 30 years behi= nd. From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:14:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49b80530_9374_11d8_87ec_00304828b574_11072; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98314344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49827816_9374_11d8_9534_00304828b574_11069; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 80D307580FB; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433727580FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48b5d52c_9374_11d8_8aaa_00304828b574_11066; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AFA344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4673f370_9374_11d8_9a0d_00304828b574_11039; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00E9F19E39; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 886CE19BED; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:13:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BB5119B5E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C123819AA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGDeE-0000zZ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <06bc01c426d3$897c0da0$0fca7d50@SOMA>, <2aa78de3278c853c61d44511e705f1e7@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:03:07 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: ...deleted > The interesting question is whether mk, unlike make, can be shell > agnostic. If I specify SHELL=/usr/bin/perl and supply perl recipes, > will mk cope more or less invisibly? could you please expand upon your question. i am currently understanding it as: if we have a (future, theoretical) mk that can handle SHELL=xyz instead of the current hard coded /bin/sh, would that work? to me the only possible answer would be yes. perhaps your question really is: it is worth it to expand(/improve?) mk to be able to handle SHELL=xyz instead of the current hard coded /bin/sh? then i would guess that the answer is: please, go ahead and try to do it. then we will know :-) bengt From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:14:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 51ca8892_9374_11d8_9164_00304828b574_11097; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E5F344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 519526de_9374_11d8_9de2_00304828b574_11094; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 14FB07580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFED87580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 515aef6e_9374_11d8_9c47_00304828b574_11091; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B3B344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 50b16e3a_9374_11d8_95fc_00304828b574_11088; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0FE2619C5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 65BE519E2C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 52A1319CDC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFAE619B5E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGDeE-0000zT-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <065101c426d0$ba587970$0fca7d50@SOMA>, <89de3b4325c40999e16ca4857bbc723b@proxima.alt.za> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:55 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: ...deleted > A "SHELL=" assignment in the mkfile could go a long way to guarantee > recipe compatibility, surely? Or should it be a command line argument > to mk? since it is the mkfiles that are the ''problem'' it would be best to put the information into them. note that it would not be possible to use the full path to the shell, since atleast rc would be possible to find in different locations. which means that the current use of execl() in plan9/src/cmd/mk/unix.c would have to be replaced with execlp(). bengt From saw@online.de Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:14:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c7f632a_9374_11d8_9737_00304828b574_11112; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B49344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c4a9cb2_9374_11d8_96b2_00304828b574_11109; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0D60C7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B807580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c1747e0_9374_11d8_9ace_00304828b574_11106; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B893C344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b59c8d2_9374_11d8_9b1d_00304828b574_11103; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:14:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3A6219E85; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 51AE319DA7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:14:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30FC619C63; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 99DD119CDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGDeE-0000zH-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Sascha Wildner Message-ID: Organization: Yoyodyne Natural Born Configurators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <407C4579.6070601@online.de>, <2ae48a09.0404141140.edcce35@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:33 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: yassine wrote: >>Does anyone know where I can buy an optical 3 >>button mouse? I don't mind if there's a cable. > > > A real 3-button one can be bought here: > > http://www.contourdesign.com/pmo/ > > Yassine Hmmm. Maybe someone should add this and the IBM link to the Wiki... Sascha -- http://yoyodyne.ath.cx Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Keywords: Cc: -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:15:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67d6b35e_9374_11d8_9105_00304828b574_11885; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2662D344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67a155c4_9374_11d8_9543_00304828b574_11882; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 11E557580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD62C7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67671cf6_9374_11d8_8610_00304828b574_11879; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E0B344C76 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66bcd2dc_9374_11d8_84a6_00304828b574_11875; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:15:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E4C619E81; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B63A19E35; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:15:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0932F19D0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A9D7F19C28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGDeE-0000zN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:04:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , <065101c426d0$ba587970$0fca7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:02:44 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: boyd, rounin wrote: ...deleted > the problem isn't with mk, it's the recipies; the chunks of code > that get run could (should?) be written in a 7th Ed shell or rc > independent 'style' if possible. imho, you are mostly correct. it is mainly the receipes in the mkfiles that are affected by the sh/rc differences. however, i sometimes find myself doing this, or similar, in a mkfile: DIR = `{pwd} this is not what i call a recipe, and i do not know how to vrite it in an independent style. bengt From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:20:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 289cd5be_9375_11d8_84d0_00304828b574_15846; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5C4345176 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2866faf2_9375_11d8_8868_00304828b574_15842; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 78E227580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320547580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 282e7f10_9375_11d8_90d3_00304828b574_15836; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A20C345177 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 278669d8_9375_11d8_81dd_00304828b574_15825; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD2C319D5C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5456F19E06; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2774719D7C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB72F19B01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:17:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: mk also sets particular options that can depend on the shell, so SHELL= isn't enough. From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:27:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1ffa5976_9376_11d8_86bb_00304828b574_21300; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9131B345193 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1fc5f0b4_9376_11d8_9f43_00304828b574_21293; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7E0BE7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384387580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1f8e5ece_9376_11d8_8c44_00304828b574_21290; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B348F345193 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e8b4852_9376_11d8_9e72_00304828b574_21287; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:27:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF55319D7C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DBA119B01; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:27:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A59A19E06; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFB3719D06 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7fc6a319b6b86d847ba8a413fc351e3a@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <4085E81A.4070702@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:24:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>i installed both VC and SDK without a reboot. >>am i just having a good week? laugh all you like no, or rather perhaps you are! but it's just as likely to have been some other microsoft stuff i installed two years ago, although since it was my machine and that's about all i've got on it, i'd have thought it was VC++6. i certainly don't propose to retry it to find out! From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:29:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66b70fc6_9376_11d8_946f_00304828b574_22832; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4019C345197 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6681352c_9376_11d8_83df_00304828b574_22829; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2B8827580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65D77580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 66468d14_9376_11d8_9ad1_00304828b574_22826; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48FD345197 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 658e459c_9376_11d8_97d8_00304828b574_22823; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:29:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A69919E35; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DC6619C5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:29:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2CFC19E06; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9422319C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3L9SED20338 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:28:14 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:28:07 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > boyd, rounin wrote: > ...deleted >> the problem isn't with mk, it's the recipies; the chunks of code >> that get run could (should?) be written in a 7th Ed shell or rc >> independent 'style' if possible. > One could go insane and allow an #!-type specification at the beginning of non-default scripts. I'm sure that way lies madness. > imho, you are mostly correct. it is mainly the receipes in the mkfiles > that are affected by the sh/rc differences. > however, i sometimes find myself doing this, or similar, in a mkfile: > > DIR = `{pwd} > > this is not what i call a recipe, and i do not know how to vrite it in > an independent style. > I can't see how it could be done portably. Teaching mk all sorts of tricks would be counterproductive, may as well use GNU Make then. ++L From david@cantrell.org.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:34:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a25863c_9377_11d8_94f3_00304828b574_27741; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497863451A4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 19f00228_9377_11d8_8060_00304828b574_27738; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3532E7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9BC7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 19b4a4ee_9377_11d8_9f61_00304828b574_27735; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58853451A4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1901bc8a_9377_11d8_9006_00304828b574_27731; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:34:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E23419E74; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BA4219E6E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:34:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5138E19D5C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bytemark.barnyard.co.uk (bytemark.barnyard.co.uk [212.13.209.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B7B319E05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from david by bytemark.barnyard.co.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BGE6Y-0002GI-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:33:18 +0100 From: David Cantrell To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... Message-ID: <20040421093318.GA8005@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> References: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <1082453743.22281.147.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1082453743.22281.147.camel@zevon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Rdate: a.d. XI Kal. Mai. MMDCCLVII AUC Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:33:18 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 10:35:43AM +0100, Dave Lukes wrote: > N.B. It may be worth bringing some Euros too, > since lots of the big shops take them now! As does my favourite pub, the Pillars of Hercules on Greek St. And the guvnor's a geek too! -- David Cantrell | Reprobate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david From forsyth@terzarima.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:39:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ce1b2eda_9377_11d8_9a77_00304828b574_31855; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0733451C2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cdea62f0_9377_11d8_8b78_00304828b574_31852; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1F6BB7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B447D7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd9bb2f4_9377_11d8_92b1_00304828b574_31849; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBAC43451C2 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccf325ee_9377_11d8_87fc_00304828b574_31846; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 13E6B19C5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1F6C419B47; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:39:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3996619B74; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DDDBB19B57 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <06ce521c00ab2af9ced54e4c986f4f8e@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <20040421031525.GC11456@goose.eng.sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:37:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though, >> has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ? probably: but i'd suppose that as the number of buttons increases, it's even more important to have the actions be consistent across the whole interface, so you have no need to think about it. as another aside, buxton et al had one scheme that used two devices, one in each hand, the non-dominant hand positioning a partly-transparent control, and the dominant hand operating on the things beneath the control. From forsyth@vitanuova.com Wed Apr 21 23:44:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:44:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81ac5c62_9378_11d8_9f79_00304828b574_3508; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE983451D8 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 817b42bc_9378_11d8_8d88_00304828b574_3505; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 61DE17580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE8D7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 813d61ea_9378_11d8_9f34_00304828b574_3502; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339433451D8 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8095becc_9378_11d8_83ca_00304828b574_3499; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:44:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE89319B47; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EA4D19B13; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:44:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C9AB7199BE; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C05719A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c79257739cd2f1bb92dffcec2be1b1d@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <4085E81A.4070702@chunder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:49:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>but now i have a windows inferno that compiles/works >>against a known and free toolchain (i hate that word). i'd assumed that was the main reason for microsoft making their kit freely available. From matt@proweb.co.uk Wed Apr 21 23:44:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:47:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb0a7766_9378_11d8_85d3_00304828b574_6085; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CCB3451DF for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ead6fc24_9378_11d8_8545_00304828b574_6082; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3107B7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD7D7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea9eaebe_9378_11d8_9cf4_00304828b574_6079; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019003451DF for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e9f67320_9378_11d8_8c3f_00304828b574_6076; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFD2919B13; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B7DC19B13; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:47:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A87B119B57; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46C2419AB6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:48:37 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > So, $A instead of /this/long/path/to/where/I/start/working just gives > me space I can use as scratch space without having to scroll in the tag. if only you had per process namespaces huh! :) From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Wed Apr 21 23:44:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 18:59:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97a0bf20_937a_11d8_99fc_00304828b574_15424; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E833345213 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 976c64be_937a_11d8_8ba0_00304828b574_15421; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 327AB7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6B87580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 972b60ea_937a_11d8_9e58_00304828b574_15418; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED464345213 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 967fc7b2_937a_11d8_8709_00304828b574_15414; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8A47319B77; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10E8519B53; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D34419B57; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC17B19B4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 05:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3L9wpCi009666 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:58:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3L9wp8H007123 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:58:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3L9wpV10960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:58:51 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404210958.i3L9wpV10960@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:48:37 +0100." References: From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:58:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > So, $A instead of /this/long/path/to/where/I/start/working just gives > > me space I can use as scratch space without having to scroll in the tag. > > if only you had per process namespaces huh! :) yup! From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 21:09:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c20c6478_938c_11d8_8a5d_00304828b574_2825; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65376344F9E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1d546be_938c_11d8_875b_00304828b574_2822; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4ADCF7580F9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72617580FA for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c179cfb4_938c_11d8_8391_00304828b574_2819; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04C9344F9E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c0d26abc_938c_11d8_9448_00304828b574_2812; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6EC3C19E5F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB34B19E35; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6492A19E5D; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DA56C19E30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 082B45777B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:08:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <097001c42798$efe91a40$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:05:19 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded? i suggested this to rob in 1992-1993 when 9term came out but he said it would make the button 2 menu too long. i added it to 9term anyway and it was very useful; looking for 'close' strings in log files was one use. perhaps you could do some hack with the plumber? but it would be a hack and would not be general. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 21:18:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04cb6ace_938e_11d8_8bcd_00304828b574_10436; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC8334534F for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 048c0bfe_938e_11d8_8b1f_00304828b574_10433; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B00577580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630DE7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04492492_938e_11d8_8472_00304828b574_10430; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D7C34534F for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 039fc6fe_938e_11d8_80ef_00304828b574_10427; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:18:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 518A319E8E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B768A19E81; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF5AC19E74; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DB64619E35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5914E3784B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:17:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <098601c4279a$31d25010$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6326b7e3ecccb3d942157a2a91480246@terzarima.net> <4085E81A.4070702@chunder.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:14:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i installed both VC and SDK without a reboot. > am i just having a good week? i'd say so. i plugged my logitech webcam into a different USB port and it auto-re-installed the s/w and THEN wanted a reboot, even though said camera had been working fine on the other USB port. i was just waiting for a crash, but it was not to be. things did get _very_ slow for a _long_ time while it was doing this [700Mhz P3]. this combined with some idiot asking me to turn off my firewall turned my thoughts to applying different 'tools'. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 21:49:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59dc2450_9392_11d8_8bb0_00304828b574_2438; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893933453D9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 599ffcc8_9392_11d8_9fe7_00304828b574_2435; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 76A7A7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C50F7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5965dbd8_9392_11d8_8179_00304828b574_2432; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437133453D9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58bd2772_9392_11d8_8610_00304828b574_2429; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 973F919E2C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B00A19B79; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:49:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 544FB19A90; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE33819B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C2A037BDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:48:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <09a801c4279e$7037d600$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:44:45 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the > 'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, ... oh no. that violates practice/principles that date from at least 1984: - button 1 for selection - button 2 for in window operations - button 3 for window manipulation a consistent interface is a good thing. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 22:04:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69ee8af2_9394_11d8_9fe6_00304828b574_18902; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B87A3444AB for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69b7ffa0_9394_11d8_9c9c_00304828b574_18893; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0DE9075810B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9393758104 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 664e2f24_9394_11d8_80b9_00304828b574_18822; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:04:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B94E3444AB for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb720e90_9393_11d8_857b_00304828b574_13085; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:59:32 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D33319E84; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7FEB819DF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1486F19D8F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EFC4719C9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8061537B39 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:58:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <09b501c4279f$ded94200$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <79A6169D.58F1B604@mail.gmail.com> <20040421031525.GC11456@goose.eng.sun.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:54:59 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though, > has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ? nah, a morse key. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 22:09:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25b14ba8_9395_11d8_96c3_00304828b574_22977; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93869344C78 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25807faa_9395_11d8_8f37_00304828b574_22974; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 75F6B7580FA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29EAD7580F9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 253e72e0_9395_11d8_87a6_00304828b574_22971; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CC7344C78 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 249640f2_9395_11d8_9ca2_00304828b574_22968; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:09:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B10B619E6E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 74B0619E2C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:09:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E0F7919E2C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CA5CE19D8F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D67F37B14 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0a2c01c427a1$3de1e990$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <614d87cf956734c6ee5dbb8fce761fb9@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:04:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > you can get rid of cut, paste & snarf for me - I use chording :) try and chord on a 2 button mousepad. From boyd@insultant.net Wed Apr 21 23:44:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 21 23:16:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 764f1bfe_939e_11d8_8cfb_00304828b574_19268; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E71934430C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 761d6b7c_939e_11d8_9e4b_00304828b574_19262; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 008F87580FF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F96D758102 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71f1e35c_939e_11d8_9bf0_00304828b574_19185; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F097345951 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:57:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id df387c44_939b_11d8_9dbd_00304828b574_30801; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:57:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4412D19E81; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8DAB419EAA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:57:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 65D5A19EB0; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AE2319EAA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 42C7B37996 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:56:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0a6f01c427a8$1d6f02e0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:53:57 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > DIR = `{pwd} > > this is not what i call a recipe, and i do not know how to vrite it in > an independent style. fancy stuff in a recipe has always been a bad idea, although mk does fix this problem which then allows you to write fancy stuff. goto fonfon; From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 00:52:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb909cdc_93ab_11d8_8e06_00304828b574_5038; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C37534442E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb600c0c_93ab_11d8_8417_00304828b574_5035; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5D3E37580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122EB7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb1dcc3e_93ab_11d8_9513_00304828b574_5032; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2812834442E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea743a3e_93ab_11d8_8aff_00304828b574_5029; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:52:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D94419FCE; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6825F19FBF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:52:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A85BB19F82; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F2E919E8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <824dcbc42c5a77605369bc958f12f80a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <097001c42798$efe91a40$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:57:55 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=CLICK_BELOW,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i suggested this to rob in 1992-1993 when 9term came out but > he said it would make the button 2 menu too long. i added it > to 9term anyway and it was very useful; looking for 'close' > strings in log files was one use. what i tend to do in these circumstances is select all the text in the rio window, click New in acme and paste it in there. (that brings me to the thing i find most annoying in rio - i'll drag down to the end of the window, chord cut and paste to snarf it all... and it executes the entire snarf buffer! (potentially really nasty, but mitigated by dumpfs...) i started to have a look at fixing this once, but got bogged down and haven't mustered the energy again.) acme Edit in temporary windows for playing with log files is a wonderful thing. (actually, it's great in other ways too. for example, i tend to keep a large mailbox, and in a /mail/fs/mbox/ window, i can do: Edit ,x/^[0-9].*\n( .*\n)*/g/\[9fans]/d to restrict my view to non-9fans messages only.) acme temporary, unlabeled, windows are great. it's a pity they're not archived when acme is Dumped. to add to the mouse button thing: if i had an extra mouse button, i think i'd use it as a "search backwards" button in acme. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 00:54:30 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2c91f334_93ac_11d8_8dfb_00304828b574_6780; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8459D34445D for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2c5d35a4_93ac_11d8_9033_00304828b574_6777; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 700837580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295E47580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2c245e00_93ac_11d8_932a_00304828b574_6774; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA0334445D for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b7b06c0_93ac_11d8_81e6_00304828b574_6770; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:54:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F01C19E8E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D1BD19DE5; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:54:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 359BC19FBF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A89919D94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4fc3ded940329526c1c62edd1b3f1d7d@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <8bbd18e2b4cda40b6198454440904a93@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:59:51 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i've just (re)discovered Zerox. that one feature makes me > about 15% more productive when working on largish documents for me, the only alternative is a printout... so Zerox saves paper. how ironic is that? From matt@proweb.co.uk Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:04:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97a363c8_93ad_11d8_9cbb_00304828b574_14768; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA95D34555A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97732276_93ad_11d8_934a_00304828b574_14765; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8C24E7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4346D7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97328bb2_93ad_11d8_8f54_00304828b574_14762; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD5F34555A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 968aa834_93ad_11d8_9f0d_00304828b574_14748; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5119A19FBF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9636E19FDC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:04:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0399019FBF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6F99519CE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <824dcbc42c5a77605369bc958f12f80a@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:05:46 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: perhaps one solution would be rio keeping shell windows as a file server like acme m From russcox@gmail.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:18:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d98f2ba_93af_11d8_8aa2_00304828b574_26152; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF187345597 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d68ef66_93af_11d8_9e09_00304828b574_26149; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B15367580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E357580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d29b9fe_93af_11d8_9c6d_00304828b574_26146; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83512345597 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c825da8_93af_11d8_8b2c_00304828b574_26143; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:18:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09DAA1A056; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBFFC1A01B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7589E1A01B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.248]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 34E9B1A005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u33so4280cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.35 with SMTP id x35mr12082cwb; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:17:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > perhaps one solution would be rio keeping shell windows as a file server like acme you mean like it already does in /dev/text? russ From matt@proweb.co.uk Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:29:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1599489e_93b1_11d8_9468_00304828b574_2127; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F96C3455AD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 156a12c2_93b1_11d8_88ca_00304828b574_2124; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 660787580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270807580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1532c100_93b1_11d8_969a_00304828b574_2121; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4023F3455AD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 148b2e36_93b1_11d8_837d_00304828b574_2118; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:29:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 64F161A05B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDA3D1A027; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:29:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82CE21A033; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE9271A01E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48739712dff6a5cc9c82f7c50304d07e@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:31:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: lol, i hadn't noticed that is there a way to access *all* of the /dev/texts rio is serving as 'grep $term /dev/text' starts to get a bit recursive :) but thanks. I have read the manuals at least 3 times cover to cover, seems I can never remember enough of it :) m From forsyth@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:31:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 63e90c00_93b1_11d8_8f8c_00304828b574_3715; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CCE3455B2 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 638cf596_93b1_11d8_9fce_00304828b574_3712; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7CAFC7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E817580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 631bdbfe_93b1_11d8_8c3d_00304828b574_3709; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE283455B2 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 622393ae_93b1_11d8_89cf_00304828b574_3706; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:31:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72A441A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3C291A046; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEC5E1A01E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BD21F1A040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14c38b21b68f6078aff5665d848663e5@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <48739712dff6a5cc9c82f7c50304d07e@juice.thebigchoice.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dwnwsdjlxchwxxoqdslvcxjwus" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:36:38 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dwnwsdjlxchwxxoqdslvcxjwus Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit % ls -l /dev/wsys/*/text --r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/1/text --r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/2/text --r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/21/text --r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/28/text --r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/29/text --upas-dwnwsdjlxchwxxoqdslvcxjwus Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 17:34:53 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A443B1A046; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 755191A01E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 82CE21A033; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EE9271A01E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48739712dff6a5cc9c82f7c50304d07e@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:31:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: lol, i hadn't noticed that is there a way to access *all* of the /dev/texts rio is serving as 'grep $term /dev/text' starts to get a bit recursive :) but thanks. I have read the manuals at least 3 times cover to cover, seems I can never remember enough of it :) m --upas-dwnwsdjlxchwxxoqdslvcxjwus-- From matt@proweb.co.uk Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:33:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f312fb8_93b1_11d8_94e1_00304828b574_5221; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C1D3455BC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ef7162a_93b1_11d8_804b_00304828b574_5215; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 343307580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:29 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94367580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9ec35d3a_93b1_11d8_8392_00304828b574_5210; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E21C3455BC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9e1bc958_93b1_11d8_9401_00304828b574_5207; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:33:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2CE001A01E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A931419F71; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:33:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B4D1F19FE3; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F206619D1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <561c5bf4eb5531f4af05a2b6cda29130@juice.thebigchoice.com> From: matt@proweb.co.uk To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <14c38b21b68f6078aff5665d848663e5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:35:20 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: thanks, there we go then, who needs look on the mouse :) m From forsyth@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:39:38 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b0454b6_93b2_11d8_8ddc_00304828b574_9844; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270E83455DC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7ad377ba_93b2_11d8_95d6_00304828b574_9841; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 098067580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B953A7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a964d86_93b2_11d8_908c_00304828b574_9838; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55CA3455DC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 79f095ee_93b2_11d8_9c89_00304828b574_9835; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D54F1A07E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B16B1A040; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:39:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 312E31A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03F1C19D1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows From: C H Forsyth In-Reply-To: <14c38b21b68f6078aff5665d848663e5@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:44:36 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: try du /dev/wsys much more fun. From matthias@mteege.de Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:41:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bca83496_93b2_11d8_844b_00304828b574_11406; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7FC34597E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc72c87e_93b2_11d8_9310_00304828b574_11403; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2A3DE7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74107580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc39b480_93b2_11d8_91df_00304828b574_11400; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FB134597E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb8c4f3e_93b2_11d8_9fe3_00304828b574_11397; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D7831A0B7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A677C1A040; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:41:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A9CC01A05B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1FB6A1A097 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 76734 invoked by uid 66); 21 Apr 2004 16:40:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 39514 invoked by uid 0); 21 Apr 2004 16:37:27 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 16:37:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 35391 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2004 16:37:26 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 16:37:26 -0000 Message-ID: <66fd4051180d77a5ee501d386a48a255@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] upas/list problem Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:36:41 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Moin, I playing with upas/list and try to check a mailaddress against a patternfile. I do the following echo matthias@mteege.de > adr echo =matthias@mteege.de > pat Then I create a small script #!/bin/rc if( /bin/upas/list check pat adr ) { echo Welcome } But I don't get the "Welcome" message. What do I missing? Matthias From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 01:41:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9dac048_93b2_11d8_8656_00304828b574_11422; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F46D34597F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9a431a4_93b2_11d8_9a74_00304828b574_11419; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B06C7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028987580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c96a43e0_93b2_11d8_991a_00304828b574_11416; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1BF34597F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8c26c4c_93b2_11d8_8215_00304828b574_11413; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:41:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1BC201A0CD; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20E861A062; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:41:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 01ADC1A097; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC5731A040 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E261A57784 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:40:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0b8601c427be$e7aeab30$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <561c5bf4eb5531f4af05a2b6cda29130@juice.thebigchoice.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:37:08 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > thanks, there we go then, who needs look on the mouse :) not when you could put it on a function key. From a@9srv.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 02:01:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 867f64e0_93b5_11d8_9be4_00304828b574_32688; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981633441E5 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86227b54_93b5_11d8_90e0_00304828b574_32685; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6F3A17580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC3E7580FB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 853c3806_93b5_11d8_8d3c_00304828b574_32679; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE1E34429C for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8464772c_93b5_11d8_8a00_00304828b574_32670; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DE9F19DC5; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CE43319D51; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:01:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E5F9B19BEC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A70F19B12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d8a85e3b4aff98d1cdd11e2e55cf888@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: <0a2c01c427a1$3de1e990$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:59:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable // try and chord on a 2 button mousepad. that's easy. my mousepad has 0 buttons. i've even managed to chord with no mousepad at all! ;-) =CE=E3=82=A2 From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 02:38:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bd2ae136_93ba_11d8_9a0d_00304828b574_29223; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF61F345630 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bcd1538c_93ba_11d8_9b41_00304828b574_29220; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B21137580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228577580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bc654d40_93ba_11d8_9e9f_00304828b574_29217; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA42345630 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb6da3e2_93ba_11d8_8789_00304828b574_29214; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:38:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A178B19B1C; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9605619A68; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:38:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 99A9F19E27; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE7DC19E0B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <997f919d90dd12f4cf577ea7ea3bbd5a@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ldichnxoqweowxvcoqbimrmqfi" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:43:37 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ldichnxoqweowxvcoqbimrmqfi Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > One can convert between decimal and other bases (radices) using bc, by > setting the input or output base: [...] > For more general radix conversion, I use db: to add my own 2 cents, i tend to use a little command-line calculator i wrote ages ago to do this sort of thing. i still prefer it to the above tools because it's not interactive (=3D less stuff to type to get the results). it's a reverse polish calculator, which works quite well on the command line, as there's almost no punctuation to get in the way of the shell's syntax (no brackets, and the stuff to be executed is just a list of operands/operators, which maps well to rc's lists). it's also handy for building up an expression incrementally. it's very similar to the inferno version, documented at http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/man/1/fc.html all calculations are done in floating point, and it's a convenient command-line way of getting access to the floating point library, not to mention converting between bases. e.g. % fc 0x400 1024 % fc -x 1024 0x400 % fc 0400 256 % fc -x 0400 0x100 % fc 22 7 / 3.142857143 % x=3D(1 2 3 4 5 6) % fc $x sum 21 % fc -B 96451234 0b00000101101111111011101010100010 10987654321098765432109876543210 3 2 1 % fc 0b00000101101111111011101010100010 sqrt 9820.958914 % fc -help Usage: fc -[dcxotbB] Option specifies output format: -d decimal -c rune -x hex -o octal -t time -b binary -B annotated binary Operands are decimal(default), hex(0x), octal(0), binary(0b), rune(@), time(hh:mm.ss) Operators are: (number of arguments in brackets) swap[2] dup[1] rep[n] ![1] %[2] p[1] *,=C3=97,x[2] **,xx,^,pow[2]=20 +[2] -[2] /[2] _[1] <<,=C2=AB,shl[2] >>,=C2=BB,shr[2] and,=E2=8B=80[2] =E2= =8B=81,or[2]=20 xor[2] not[1] sum[n] acos[1] asin[1] atan[1] atan2[2] ceil[1]=20 cos[1] cosh[1] deg[1] exp[1] fabs[1] floor[1] fmod[2] ldexp[2]=20 log,ln[1] log10[1] log2[1] rad[1] sin[1] sinh[1] =E2=88=9A,sqrt[1]=20 tan[1] tanh[1] trunc[2]=20 Constants are: =CF=80=3D3.14159 pi=3D3.14159 e=3D2.71828 %=20 i've attached it. someone might find it useful. --upas-ldichnxoqweowxvcoqbimrmqfi Content-Type: 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boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 02:48:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 207ef37a_93bc_11d8_80d1_00304828b574_4459; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F08B34564E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 204e1160_93bc_11d8_897e_00304828b574_4456; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 219967580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE22E7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 200ef1e2_93bc_11d8_9807_00304828b574_4453; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E599234564E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1f666b08_93bc_11d8_9d71_00304828b574_4450; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 361FE19F61; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1765319BF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:48:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6880E19BF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 20DB819BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F9C7574F3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:47:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0bba01c427c8$4e349d70$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:44:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > to add my own 2 cents, i tend to use a little command-line > calculator i wrote ages ago to do this sort of thing. why? dc(1) From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 02:51:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8bd916c8_93bc_11d8_81c3_00304828b574_6946; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5AA345656 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ba8fb1e_93bc_11d8_9724_00304828b574_6943; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3EBC27580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E850F7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8b692020_93bc_11d8_90ad_00304828b574_6940; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1FD345656 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ac18568_93bc_11d8_9aab_00304828b574_6936; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 156F319E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 604D019A68; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:51:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C884D19A68; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6067119B77 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1676f28c780188eafaafdb41ecd09564@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <0bba01c427c8$4e349d70$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:56:40 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > why? > > dc(1) dc doesn't take arguments on the command line. dc doesn't do stuff in floating point. dc doesn't gives you access to the floating point operators. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:08:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4446878_93be_11d8_987f_00304828b574_20652; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F299F344446 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3bf6f24_93be_11d8_9bd7_00304828b574_20642; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B209C7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DB47580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2d644de_93be_11d8_80c1_00304828b574_20632; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:08:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E6C344446 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c94f3814_93be_11d8_983f_00304828b574_19573; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 45D1D19BF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CC3519BF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:07:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 54E8719E28; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB68819BF8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 315EE574F8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:06:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0bc501c427ca$e3c45b30$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1676f28c780188eafaafdb41ecd09564@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:03:01 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > dc doesn't take arguments on the command line. echo ... | dc > dc doesn't do stuff in floating point. % dc 5k 1 3/p .33333 2vp 1.41421 > dc doesn't gives you access to the floating point operators. and which set would you like? From michael@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:05 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:15:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5a57608_93bf_11d8_8531_00304828b574_28032; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF5B34451A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4b402dc_93bf_11d8_8870_00304828b574_28023; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D51D17580FB; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9462A758101 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3b9dcf8_93bf_11d8_8f2d_00304828b574_28007; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AD634455D for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31c7e8d2_93bf_11d8_9298_00304828b574_22693; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 101D619FE0; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8C07E19BF8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 72A1519E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3C5519DC5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 19:12:12 BST 2004 Message-ID: <011901c4280d$3979dc70$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:57:53 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap > it's a reverse polish calculator, which works quite well The first calculator I bought was from a market stall. The stall holder said he was selling them cheap because "they don't have an '=' key"; turned out it used reverse polish. It did work quite well, and no one wanted to borrow it either. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:36:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3771efc_93c2_11d8_85aa_00304828b574_15746; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E89F3445BB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d33f2f74_93c2_11d8_866f_00304828b574_15743; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 512027580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0974A7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d2fffd2c_93c2_11d8_898b_00304828b574_15740; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180E43445BB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d251eeee_93c2_11d8_865c_00304828b574_15737; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 091AF19E8E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 921EC19D55; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:36:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE12119BB1; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F1D4319D12 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <0bc501c427ca$e3c45b30$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:41:08 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > dc doesn't take arguments on the command line. > > echo ... | dc % echo 5k 1 3 /p|dc .33333 isn't nearly as convenient as: % fc 1 3 / 0.3333333333 especially since in rio i can just tack on " 60 +" to the end of that line, click Send and thus manipulate the original expression with minimal effort. yes, i know they're more-or-less equivalent (but see below), but i thought i'd mention it because since i wrote it i've found that it's one of those tools that just "fits" really nicely. no particular feature in mind; i just find it consistently satisfying to use. YMMV, of course; i'll freely admit i'm biased :-) > % dc > 5k 1 3/p > .33333 > 2vp > 1.41421 i said *floating* point. > > dc doesn't gives you access to the floating point operators. > > and which set would you like? the set available by including libc.h, or some approximation thereof (e.g. sin, log, sqrt, etc). i presume hoc gives access to these also, but it's overkill for the kind of thing i'm talking about, not to mention awkward to use on the command line. From lyndon@orthanc.ca Thu Apr 22 08:36:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:39:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e07701e_93c3_11d8_8bba_00304828b574_18138; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDD83445CE for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3dd1fed4_93c3_11d8_996f_00304828b574_18135; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 299F37580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:37 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FE67580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d969aa6_93c3_11d8_8b62_00304828b574_18132; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AC53445CE for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3ced88a8_93c3_11d8_9df8_00304828b574_18129; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6393019E2B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B680919BB1; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C961819BB1; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ca [209.89.70.53]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5765C19E16 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net (d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net [207.6.110.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by orthanc.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3LIcApu070245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... Message-ID: <2147483647.1082547485@d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net> In-Reply-To: <066001c426d1$966b20c0$0fca7d50@SOMA> References: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <066001c426d1$966b20c0$0fca7d50@SOMA> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:38:05 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --On 2004-4-20 2:18 PM +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: >> Cheap place to change Euros?. Just in case. > > use an ATM and take out largish sums [100 GBP] from a major bank. > Or if you're paranoid, buy some pound-sterling travellers cheques from Amex. You can cash these for free at any Thomas Cook exchange kiosk at the airports. --lyndon From robpike@gmail.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:43:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccb96286_93c3_11d8_80a1_00304828b574_21219; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB633445EB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc82674a_93c3_11d8_8524_00304828b574_21216; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 80E4F7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388307580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc43249a_93c3_11d8_9657_00304828b574_21213; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9703445EB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cb9a5f5e_93c3_11d8_993f_00304828b574_21210; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:43:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6E6C19E16; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4610B19E2B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:43:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2C13F19E1A; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id DDE5B19BB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so5578cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.2.58 with SMTP id 58mr7561rnb; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7D060658.75466CAA@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:42:08 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i presume hoc gives access to these also, but it's overkill for the > kind of thing i'm talking about, not to mention awkward to use on the > command line. % hoc -e 1/3 .333333333333 % how hard was that? -rob From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:47:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 640006c2_93c4_11d8_864d_00304828b574_24230; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6F43445F8 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 63c852e0_93c4_11d8_8efb_00304828b574_24226; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4C9017580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042967580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6387c4a0_93c4_11d8_9d96_00304828b574_24223; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5913445F8 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 62dfbc4c_93c4_11d8_8325_00304828b574_24219; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B17E19F83; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCE1519E8E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:47:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2D0F19E2B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E119B19E25 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 91F76577BF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:46:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0be501c427d0$86b66e00$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:43:18 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > isn't nearly as convenient as: > % fc 1 3 / > 0.3333333333 ever written a script? From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:06 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:52:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e46d052_93c5_11d8_971e_00304828b574_28086; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F535344602 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e10e64a_93c5_11d8_9efe_00304828b574_28083; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0C6687580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B741C7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0dd7420a_93c5_11d8_9546_00304828b574_28080; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF968344602 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0d2f41ea_93c5_11d8_9826_00304828b574_28077; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:52:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD87019E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA57B19FE3; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:52:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0821919E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 030F519E8E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B001D577D1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:50:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0be901c427d1$293fed40$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:47:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i said *floating* point. 1.23456789 2.3456789 20k*p 2.895899850190521 > > and which set would you like? > > the set available by including libc.h, or some approximation thereof > (e.g. sin, log, sqrt, etc). err, awk(1)? From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:54:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ec7a47a_93c5_11d8_85cb_00304828b574_29596; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361CA344613 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5e9681f6_93c5_11d8_85da_00304828b574_29593; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 231447580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92947580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5e4fd17a_93c5_11d8_9a0b_00304828b574_29590; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03EC344613 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5da71b34_93c5_11d8_8217_00304828b574_29587; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:54:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5185319B41; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4153119E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:54:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86C4019E2F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8183C19F61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F954573D4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:53:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0bf501c427d1$80769640$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <5c33411e344041aa0e5352a402280f1f@plan9.escet.urjc.es> <066001c426d1$966b20c0$0fca7d50@SOMA> <2147483647.1082547485@d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] 9conlon ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:50:17 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Or if you're paranoid, buy some pound-sterling travellers cheques even in russia, in 1997, there were enough ATMs to make this a waste of time. From robpike@gmail.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 03:58:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e65f83d0_93c5_11d8_9c1c_00304828b574_774; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967DB3444E7 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6202fb4_93c5_11d8_8e3f_00304828b574_771; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7883E7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309C67580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5e07e82_93c5_11d8_9b98_00304828b574_753; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:58:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DB734461F for ; 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Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7D34011E.5022E9AC@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> <0be901c427d1$293fed40$0fca7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:57:24 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=LARGE_HEX autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * > > i said *floating* point. > > 1.23456789 2.3456789 20k*p > 2.895899850190521 > boyd, he said floating point. % dc 10 300 ^ p 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000\ 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000\ 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000\ 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000\ 0000000000000000000000 % hoc -e '10^300' 1e+300 % -rob From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 04:02:31 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70eb9d9a_93c6_11d8_866f_00304828b574_4237; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2789344629 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70980e78_93c6_11d8_833e_00304828b574_4234; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:30 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BA0627580FC; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB2B7580FB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 704f0a70_93c6_11d8_9387_00304828b574_4227; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C64344629 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f97c928_93c6_11d8_8445_00304828b574_4207; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:02:29 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 258031A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1486419CE0; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:02:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E98619F83; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8541719E2D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C78A57571 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:01:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0c0901c427d2$b1cacd50$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0f862368e4dafd90990fdca630810e49@vitanuova.com> <0be901c427d1$293fed40$0fca7d50@SOMA> <7D34011E.5022E9AC@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:58:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > boyd, he said floating point. i was hoping he could join-the-dots. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 04:11:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b87ee45e_93c7_11d8_9233_00304828b574_11763; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB66C344653 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b848fc22_93c7_11d8_8864_00304828b574_11760; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8CD7D7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4755D7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b80a6ce6_93c7_11d8_8530_00304828b574_11757; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55663344653 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b75bf030_93c7_11d8_9aa2_00304828b574_11754; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:11:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21F031A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0E881A005; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:11:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E00DD1A005; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8164719FDC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <114211b71be26157069c0d33d02eda61@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <7D060658.75466CAA@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:16:50 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > how hard was that? i find the reverse-polish thing works really nicely on the command line. whatever the complexity of the expression, you can always add stuff to the end to operate on the previous result. the output is always suitable as input. if i've got some values in shell variables, the fact that you don't have to quote is really nice: % v=4000 % fc $v log 2 log / 12 % vs. % v=4000 % hoc -e 'log('$v')/log(2)' 11.96578428466 % it's also pleasant to be able to operate on lists of values. e.g. multiply a list of of numbers together: % d=(3.4 5.6 3.9 99) % fc $d x rep 7351.344 % neither awk nor hoc have anything like the complete set of math functions provided in libc.h. it's useful having these if you're experimenting with a mathematical expression in a program and want to know what the result is without compiling a program to do it. nor does hoc convert between bases, which is what prompted this whole discussion. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:07 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 04:15:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4653addc_93c8_11d8_93b6_00304828b574_15138; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E213344665 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 461c9914_93c8_11d8_8fa4_00304828b574_15135; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F68D7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E7E7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45dcafca_93c8_11d8_829c_00304828b574_15132; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4380C344665 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 452cbf52_93c8_11d8_8a3e_00304828b574_15122; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:15:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39AB01A09A; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D212A1A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:15:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 372BC1A040; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D64E31A005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <822e25712bcec39b9ec007856b2b7a7a@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <0c0901c427d2$b1cacd50$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:20:01 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i was hoping he could join-the-dots. "the dots" in this case mean that you have to pre-guess the scale of the result of the expression before running it. a useful skill if you're using log tables, but not really something that's ideal for casual use. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 05:02:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9e08cae_93ce_11d8_9beb_00304828b574_24620; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B378344754 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d9a9714c_93ce_11d8_8f7d_00304828b574_24617; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 16ADD7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31C47580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d96fc35c_93ce_11d8_9a85_00304828b574_24614; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC87344754 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d8c06b64_93ce_11d8_8bfc_00304828b574_24611; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:02:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 748FC19DFF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D93619DFF; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:02:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DA9A419CF2; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 452CD19C84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DF9BC37A08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:01:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0c1a01c427db$0466e5f0$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <822e25712bcec39b9ec007856b2b7a7a@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:58:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > "the dots" in this case mean that you have to > pre-guess the scale of the result of the expression > before running it. no, 'the dots' is that someone has already done the hard work [dc/awk] and you should build a tool with these extremely well tested tools, rather than building yet another one that leaves itself open to be choc-full-o-bugs. pre-guess the scale? if you don't like it the first time snarf it up, change the scale and run it again. eg. get it to spit: dc input etc = result [programing the inputs]. before you make the calculation i think you'd have a pretty good idea of how 'big' the result will be. or, if you want to write more code, write a thing to scale the output, based on a huge input scale. this is not large-n-bit RSA. % set roman btw: i think i shall return to my 243 mega parsec barns of red. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 05:22:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8b48db70_93d1_11d8_883f_00304828b574_8324; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:22:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36F9344542 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8b0e9578_93d1_11d8_8ffc_00304828b574_8312; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1A6D875810B; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249E67580FD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 897bbf24_93d1_11d8_9356_00304828b574_8289; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08495344542 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80f1c1dc_93d1_11d8_98ad_00304828b574_8190; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8DBF61A02B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 427B519F83; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:21:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22BFA19E3F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43A3519CF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2fa50e693885da524f53ffbfcd653e9d@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] german keymap From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <0c1a01c427db$0466e5f0$0fca7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:26:03 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > before you make the calculation i think you'd have a pretty > good idea of how 'big' the result will be. not good enough. the scale of sub-expressions is important too. > or, if you want to > write more code, write a thing to scale the output, based > on a huge input scale. there's already something that does this, to a good approximation. it's called the FPU. > rather than building yet > another one that leaves itself open to be choc-full-o-bugs. i wrote it nearly 15 years ago. it's almost trivially simple. (ok, it gained a couple of excrescences early on, but i knocked 'em off for the inferno version). i just pointed it out because it's one of the very few tools i've written that i've found consistently useful and usable. if you don't like the way it works, ignore it. i really don't see the problem. From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 06:21:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3f73480_93d9_11d8_8a18_00304828b574_27149; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924F03447FD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3c52b2a_93d9_11d8_92df_00304828b574_27145; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 750707580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8C67580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3861c3c_93d9_11d8_8ffa_00304828b574_27142; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF533447FD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2bc627a_93d9_11d8_9aac_00304828b574_27137; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D7E019C38; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C9E9419E49; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:21:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03AEC19E0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C86519E29 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <499f328d8dc6462edbadb7e4894feaf8@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] an idea Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:26:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ok, this idea's a bit off the wall, but i thought i'd mention it because i think it's got some potential. some observations on the way 9p works currently: 1) if i import a remote namespace containing /srv, mounting a file in /srv triples the latency of requests on the mounted namespace (write tmsg, reply, read rmsg header, reply, read rmsg body, reply). 2) without re-mounting the connection, there's no way of introducing a new user to a remotely imported namespace. 3) the '#' namespace is quite restrictive (devices can't be attached by a remote machine, unless using an additional protocol, such as import), but also overly permissive (there's no way of arbitrarily restricting the set of devices available to sub-processes) 4) there's an arbitrary distinction between the '#' namespace and normal namespace, when kernel/user boundary is potentially largely arbitrary. you can't, for instance, substitute a user-level simulation of device x if a program accesses it via #x rather than a previously mounted instance of it. 5) there's a global idea of "user" (the user id of the current process, as used by fauth(2) at al) but in a situation with resources imported from many authentication domains, this isn't necessarily realistic. 6) kernel level devices are privileged in that they can access some user resources directly, in particular open fds and names. user level servers can't. here's the germ of a solution: put auth files in the namespace. here's how it might work: in your namespace you find a file with the DMAUTH bit set, an auth file. opening this produces a fid suitable for authentication, which can also be used as part of a later attach message, giving access to a new namespace - the namespace accessible as a result of this attach is distinct (files occupy a different qid space) but derived (the server decides what namespace to provide from the auth file used). imagine that /srv contains a load of these auth files. each one is like a gateway into a new namespace, in just the same way that the files in the current /srv are, except that the mount driver's job has already been done, so that someone mounting one of these remotely does not incur any additional latency over the network. moreover (and this is where things start to become interesting, i think), there's no particular reason why the auth files in /srv have to be 9p servers - they could be devices too. suppose, for the sake of argument, that it is possible to have a file descriptor that represents a walked-to-but-not-yet-open file (the kernel can do this already; an implementation would be trivial). suppose also that there are some of the usual 9p-like operations on such a file, such as walk, bind, open, etc. then imagine a device similar to the current /srv, except that any attach gives a new, clean instance, containing nothing at all, rather than globally shared resources, as currently. any file descriptor could be posted to this directory; a walk to it would give you back the original. when you boot the system, you bootstrap an instance of the /srv device, containing an auth file for each device compiled into the kernel, including the srv device itself. suddenly you don't need the '#' namespace any more. to do the equivalent of newns, attach to a new instance of the srv device, place within it the resources you want available after the newns (could include auth files, directories, etc), clear the namespace, and then bind the new instance of /srv (you'll still have its file descriptor around) onto /. for a subprocess, you can arrange exactly the set of devices that are available. there's also the potential to "push" an authentication scheme onto an auth file. in fact there are bucketloads of possibilities i haven't begun to think about yet. this kind of arrangement seems to me to make the namespace less arbitrary and more powerful. an auth file acts as a kind of tunnel to another namespace, but one that itself exists within the namespace, and is thus amenable to "meta-" namespace tools, such as iostats, cfs, etc. the implementation would be straightforward (main kernel change would be having a Dev* inside a Chan rather than indirecting through devtab), and it doesn't change 9p. almost all user-level code would be unaffected. quite a number of solutions to previously unpleasant problems seem to me to fall out from this, but i'm likely missing some blindingly obvious objection. what do you think? From demas@TheWorld.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 06:58:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 132f03cc_93df_11d8_9d55_00304828b574_23964; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B3B34572F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12fc6372_93df_11d8_8b1c_00304828b574_23961; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 355C17580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECC27580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12c1a1d8_93df_11d8_9af5_00304828b574_23956; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B94B834572F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11f2ffc2_93df_11d8_8055_00304828b574_23952; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8F14419F83; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E52419E0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:58:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BADB19E0F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2F8BC19E65 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGPah-00037L-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:49:11 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Charles Demas Message-ID: Organization: Nader for President 2004 - P.O. Box 18002, Washington, DC 20036 - (202) 265-4000 Subject: [9fans] Re: we attempt the cold walnut Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: campaigns@votenader.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:42:38 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,DCC_CHECK, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: *** Nader: Iraq an Unconstitutional, Illegal War Based on Five Falsehoods: CONGRESS SHOULD BEGIN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY OF BUSH AND CHENEY "All public policy should revolve around the principle that individuals are responsible for what they say and do." -- George W. Bush, 1994. Washington, DC: Building on his call for the impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney, Independent Presidential candidate Ralph Nader today is calling on Members of the House of Representatives to begin an impeachment inquiry to investigate two distinct impeachable offenses. An Impeachment Inquiry is the first step toward considering Articles of Impeachment. During an Impeachment Inquiry the House would investigate whether there are potential impeachable offenses. Impeachment Inquiry and the Process of Impeachment While the Constitution is clear in granting the impeachment power to the House, it leaves the development of mechanisms for exercising the power to the House. As noted by the Association of the Bar of the City of New York in "The Law of Presidential Impeachment By the Committee on Federal Legislation" (see: http://www.abcny.org/presimpt.htm): "A variety of methods have been employed to institute impeachment proceedings: Charges may be made orally on the floor by a Member of the House; a Member may submit a written statement of charges; one or more Members of the House may offer a resolution and place it in the legislative hopper; a presidential message to the House may initiate proceedings. The House has also received charges from a state legislature, from a territory, and from a grand jury. Finally, there may be a report of a committee of the House which may submit facts or charges that will lead to impeachment. Under the rules governing the order of business in the House a direct proposition to impeach is a matter of highest privilege and supersedes other business. Similar privileged treatment is given to propositions relating to a pending impeachment." The purpose of the Impeachment Inquiry is to have a Committee develop a report for the House which then can be considered for the purpose of determining whether to proceed with impeachment proceedings. The House determines whether to impeach based on a majority vote. It is important to remember that impeachment does not mean conviction - that is left to the Senate. Impeachment is the equivalent of an indictment, making formal charges, which the Senate then considers. Conviction requires two-thirds of the Members present in the Senate to vote for conviction. Two Potential Articles of Impeachment that Should be Part of an Impeachment Inquiry The Impeachment Inquiry should focus on two areas involving President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. The unconstitutional war in Iraq. "The Inquiry should examine whether President Bush and Vice President Cheney have gone beyond the bounds of the Constitution, defied the rule of law, and if so, whether impeachment is the appropriate constitutional punishment," said Nader. The United States Congress never voted for the Iraq war. Congress voted for a resolution in October 2002 which unlawfully transferred to the President the decision-making power of whether to launch a first-strike invasion of Iraq. The United States Constitution's War Powers Clause (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11) vests the power of deciding whether to send the nation into war solely in the United States Congress. This can only be changed by a constitutional amendment. "Our founders had seen what could occur when the power to declare war was vested in one person, a King or a Queen, so they took clear steps to ensure no one person could declare war for the United States. As James Madison wrote: "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war and peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department," noted Nader. Five Falsehoods that Led to the Iraq Quagmire: Making matters worse in this situation, the illegal first-strike invasion and occupation of Iraq was justified by five falsehoods. Nader calls for a second area for Impeachment Inquiry to examine: the "five falsehoods that led to war." In 1994 George W. Bush said: "All public policy should revolve around the principle that individuals are responsible for what they say and do." In 2000, he ran as the "responsibility " candidate. Manipulation or deliberate misuse of national security intelligence data, if proven, would be "a high crime" under the Constitution's impeachment clause. Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution provides: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. The weapons have still not been found. Nader emphasized, "Until the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam Hussein was our government's anti-communist ally in the Middle East. We also used him to keep Iran at bay. In so doing, in the 1980s under Reagan and the first Bush, corporations were licensed by the Department of Commerce to export the materials for chemical and biological weapons that President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney later accused him of having." Those weapons were destroyed after the Gulf War. President Bush's favorite chief weapons inspector, David Kay, after returning from Iraq and leading a large team of inspectors and spending nearly half a billion dollars told the president :We were wrong." See: David Kay testimony before Senate Armed Services Committee, January 28, 2004. IRAQ TIES TO AL QAEDA: The White House made this claim even though the CIA and FBI repeatedly told the Administration that there was no tie between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. They were mortal enemies - one secular, the other fundamentalist. SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES: In fact, Saddam was a tottering dictator, with an antiquated, fractured army of low morale and with Kurdish enemies in Northern Iraq and Shiite adversaries in the South of Iraq. He did not even control the air space over most of Iraq. SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS A THREAT TO HIS NEIGHBORS: In fact, Iraq was surrounded by countries with far superior military forces. Turkey, Iran and Israel were all capable of obliterating any aggressive move by the Iraqi dictator. THE LIBERATION OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE: There are brutal dictators throughout the world, many supported over the years by Washington, whose people need "liberation " from their leaders. This is not a persuasive argument since for Iraq, it's about oil. In fact, the occupation of Iraq by the United States is a magnet for increasing violence, anarchy and insurrection. Nader urges the Congress to investigate the illegal nature of the war, and how the five falsehoods became part of the Bush Administration's drum beat for war, in a formal Inquiry of Impeachment. -- For further information, contact: Kevin Zeese 1-202-265-4000 Matt Ahearn ahearn@votenader.org 1-201-314-9747 -- the Nepal Communist Party: "The Maoists (Nepal) draw inspiration from the 'Revolutionary International Movement', among whose affiliate is the American Revolutionary Communist Party that provides them their ideological sustenance. Observers have noticed striking similarities in the policies and guerilla tactics adopted by the Maoists and those of the Shining Path of Peru.. Maoist violence has already cost Nepal several hundred lives and destruction of property worth millions of rupees. In 1996, the year the insurgency commenced, 82 people were killed. This figure included insurgents, security forces, personnel and civilians. During the next year, total killings came down by half - 38 people died. The following year, in 1998, after the Maoists intensified their program of violence, 408 people were killed - nearly an elevenfold increase in the number of deaths over the previous year. Ever since, the death toll has been on the rise. By late 2000 the death toll has risen to over 2,100. As of August 2002, nearly 5,000 lives have been lost to the insurgency " Shining Path sent congratulations to RIM for its first anniversary in May of 1985. The Central Committee wrote, "...the people's war in our country continues to blaze defiantly, expanding, spreading its roots and preparing for newer and higher tasks, guided always by Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, battling for the emancipation of our people for the purpose of and at the service of the world revolution. Thus we are contributing and will contribute to the tasks of the RIM, more and more willing and able to aid in every possible way our glorious common cause: the emancipation of the proletariat and communism prevailing though out the earth. "Comrades, the Communist Party of Peru is part of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement and feels honored to be so, honored to serve in such a far-reaching and historic vanguard battle, From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 07:08:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71c4cb82_93e0_11d8_9f27_00304828b574_32082; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71ADE34575A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 718fb10e_93e0_11d8_816b_00304828b574_32079; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 529EC7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DD67580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 714ed0bc_93e0_11d8_9217_00304828b574_32076; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221AA34575A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 70a6bf08_93e0_11d8_8f9b_00304828b574_32073; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:08:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C35711A075; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 85F6F19EE9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A66D119E65; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 853D219C38 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.236.51]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 76BA657421 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:07:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <0cd601c427ec$952bfe70$0fca7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: we attempt the cold walnut MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:04:04 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: lifted by a swallow? From rog@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 22 08:36:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 07:48:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0ad54374_93e6_11d8_975b_00304828b574_2912; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31333448BD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a9de1f4_93e6_11d8_8975_00304828b574_2909; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9B9847580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B0B7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a638612_93e6_11d8_9569_00304828b574_2906; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9BE3448BD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09b9fcc8_93e6_11d8_8bd6_00304828b574_2903; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:48:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EB3871A029; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4916919E56; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 87D4319D6B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F18D19B08 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:53:13 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: j.krug@lancaster.ac.uk: > Can anyone explain how troff handles ligatures on plan9? nope... but what you're seeing does indeed look look like a font problem - peter-faces are shown instead of the correct characters, and i get several error messages like this: /386/bin/aux/tr2post: :52 :WARNING: cannot find glyph, rune=0x46 stoken= troff font R which seems fairly clear. someone out there should know how to substitute a more suitable font... From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 08:04:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 42f884da_93e8_11d8_8700_00304828b574_15596; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17893457C3 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 42c31f3e_93e8_11d8_84a0_00304828b574_15593; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CCF997580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838C07580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 42886f06_93e8_11d8_9c0b_00304828b574_15590; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B803457C3 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 41df09a2_93e8_11d8_9100_00304828b574_15587; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:04:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70F711A0E9; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2C4A31A0C7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:04:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3D8421A0C8; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED5871A0C6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.81.164]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1756D575B2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:03:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:00:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > j.krug@lancaster.ac.uk: > Can anyone explain how troff handles ligatures on plan9? this might help debug it: http://www.insultant.net/code/plan9/vr.c From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 08:13:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e7810ce_93e9_11d8_98ec_00304828b574_23613; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4223D3457E6 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e471de8_93e9_11d8_9304_00304828b574_23610; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 24CA87580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30257580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e0916ce_93e9_11d8_9e70_00304828b574_23607; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89DE3457E6 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d5f560c_93e9_11d8_8d06_00304828b574_23604; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:13:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEDAB1A0C7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF26819E69; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:13:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 47D5C1A096; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5230E19E52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3LNCPNZ007650 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:12:26 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures Message-Id: <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> In-Reply-To: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:12:25 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Its always appealed to me that ligatures are the small threads you tie around arteries on bleeding stumps after a successful amputation, and which are pulled on to reveal the laudible pus, or fateful corruption... From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 08:36:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 08:20:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e6638d0_93ea_11d8_83ed_00304828b574_28962; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D99F3457F7 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e347c0a_93ea_11d8_85a6_00304828b574_28959; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 84CF97580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC3C7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7df7fad2_93ea_11d8_8822_00304828b574_28956; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558C63457F7 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d503b12_93ea_11d8_9200_00304828b574_28953; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:20:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 60C7C1A0C6; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24EA61A096; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:20:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 846C019E69; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 69AD819E3A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.81.164]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B02957323 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:19:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:16:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Its always appealed to me that ... it would appeal to me if the APNIC actually had anything on its website to combat spam. they shoulda left the whole thing with kre. From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 08:45:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 070542aa_93ee_11d8_8225_00304828b574_17901; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B59934472D for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 065cdfe8_93ee_11d8_8236_00304828b574_17891; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4F2487580F9; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01267580FE for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06034500_93ee_11d8_98ed_00304828b574_17887; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:45:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D883B344E1F for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:42:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 95c74980_93ed_11d8_9b03_00304828b574_14572; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:42:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5749C1A112; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50F9C1A10B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:42:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A60F81A10B; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 904B71A103 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3LNfBNZ016333 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:41:11 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures Message-Id: <20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic> In-Reply-To: <002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> <002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.001 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100.001 (notspam) BAYES_40,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:41:11 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:16:31 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: >> Its always appealed to me that ... > >it would appeal to me if the APNIC actually had anything on its website to >combat spam. aye well, small steps. what do you suggest? > >they shoulda left the whole thing with kre. KRE never really had Asia-wide numbering. I think you're confusing us with the .AU authority. We do IP addresses. We came from Tokyo, which is not Melbourne. -george From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 09:03:07 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f514d34_93f0_11d8_8994_00304828b574_3012; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8F23448CC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6f1e1ebe_93f0_11d8_8de7_00304828b574_3002; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2EDBA7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:07 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EDA7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6edc092a_93f0_11d8_97c1_00304828b574_2972; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBBFD3448CE for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6e31c2d0_93f0_11d8_8d15_00304828b574_2861; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:03:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF4981A0C7; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 612E719E50; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:02:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BDA1719C02; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A16F019AE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.81.164]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C482A57390 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:01:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422091225.3abee279@garlic><002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:58:41 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > aye well, small steps. what do you suggest? http://mail-abuse.org versions of this have been around since '97 or so. > KRE never really had Asia-wide numbering. I think you're confusing us with > the .AU authority. We do IP addresses. We came from Tokyo, which is not Melbourne. tokyo? group decisions leading to no progress? From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 09:10:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83fe20d0_93f1_11d8_8a06_00304828b574_9003; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB2234586B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83cc5e9c_93f1_11d8_9129_00304828b574_9000; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 634F87580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F347580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 838f4ec6_93f1_11d8_949b_00304828b574_8997; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFC834586B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 82e5d242_93f1_11d8_95d2_00304828b574_8991; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:10:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 08A601A0EA; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80EBC19FED; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:10:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B3F619FED; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89D2519C20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3M09fNZ023932 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:09:41 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures Message-Id: <20040422100941.13e805a3@garlic> In-Reply-To: <003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> <002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic> <003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.001 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100.001 (notspam) BAYES_44,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:09:41 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:58:41 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: >> aye well, small steps. what do you suggest? > > http://mail-abuse.org > >versions of this have been around since '97 or so. we're a membership body. I'm not convinced the peoples republic of china can demonstrate a desire for us to run this service. But if you want to put up a policy proposal, the APNIC web should explain how you do it. > >> KRE never really had Asia-wide numbering. I think you're confusing us with >> the .AU authority. We do IP addresses. We came from Tokyo, which is not >Melbourne. > >tokyo? group decisions leading to no progress? oh come on. Otemachi is full of progress. How can heated toilet seats being sold next to KT66 valves not be progress? -George -- George Michaelson | APNIC Email: ggm@apnic.net | PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064 Phone: +61 7 3858 3150 | Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 | http://www.apnic.net From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 09:37:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4644c06a_93f5_11d8_8f6a_00304828b574_32704; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6936345902 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46140c18_93f5_11d8_9d13_00304828b574_32701; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C853B7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFA87580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45d2147a_93f5_11d8_8989_00304828b574_32698; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EF9345902 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45293df0_93f5_11d8_875c_00304828b574_32695; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:37:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F2F7B1A129; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A75B19E27; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:37:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D3FC81A0EC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7BA4819D36 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.209.173]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 880C6573E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:36:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004c01c42801$65c823b0$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422091225.3abee279@garlic><002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic><003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422100941.13e805a3@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:33:12 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > But if you want to put up a policy proposal, ... policy proposal? just get out there and do it. > oh come on. Otemachi is full of progress. How can heated toilet seats being > sold next to KT66 valves not be progress? i see you've never participated in a japanese meeting or if you have you know how to do it very well. From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 09:48:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4ab8c0c_93f6_11d8_9101_00304828b574_9511; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CAC3448FB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d478fa08_93f6_11d8_882a_00304828b574_9508; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3D2297580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DC97580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d43c559e_93f6_11d8_914e_00304828b574_9504; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3343448FB for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d38a4f52_93f6_11d8_9bf2_00304828b574_9498; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42E351A128; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B7A321A11E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:48:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17D111A0EC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1C57719AE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3M0liNZ003285 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:47:44 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures Message-Id: <20040422104744.2c87afc2@garlic> In-Reply-To: <004c01c42801$65c823b0$a4517d50@SOMA> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> <002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic> <003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422100941.13e805a3@garlic> <004c01c42801$65c823b0$a4517d50@SOMA> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:47:44 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:33:12 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: >> But if you want to put up a policy proposal, ... > >policy proposal? just get out there and do it. generally, people don't like that. integers between 0 and 2**32 being a limited supply (like big eyed beans from Venus, oh my oh my) tends towards not wanting 'just do it' as a deployment engine. but hey, please feel free to advise your customers to simply walk the number-space until they stop getting ping responses, and use the address. I'm sure the upstream ISPs will love it. (did you know swiss telecom routinely announce random /8? They've been accepting 61/8 for some time now, despite it being an AP region allocation block.. oh, you have to love those chocolate gnomes.) > >> oh come on. Otemachi is full of progress. How can heated toilet seats >being >> sold next to KT66 valves not be progress? > >i see you've never participated in a japanese meeting >or if you have you know how to do it very well. Oh, I've been in several. Generally I get rolled. But then, I get rolled in the meetings with non-Japanese people too. You know, having read 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' I can't say I miss either the apostrophe/colon opportunities unused here, or for that matter the ligatures. be honest: when was the last time you actually needed that kerning? nroff just works. -George From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 10:18:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03b87dbc_93fb_11d8_9787_00304828b574_6088; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246E1344601 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03747450_93fb_11d8_8c25_00304828b574_6084; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4898C758102; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F54758106 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 00eafc22_93fb_11d8_950f_00304828b574_6047; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB19344938 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:11:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0816a510_93fa_11d8_958c_00304828b574_30489; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:11:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A296519E6F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0C66E19E5A; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:11:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3393819E51; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E6C519D1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.209.173]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 19751377B9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005a01c42806$3b722e30$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422091225.3abee279@garlic><002001c427f6$ae8cfd10$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422094111.5dab7155@garlic><003901c427fc$937bea30$a4517d50@SOMA><20040422100941.13e805a3@garlic><004c01c42801$65c823b0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422104744.2c87afc2@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:07:40 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > generally, people don't like that. integers between 0 and 2**32 being a > limited supply no, they are not. there are only some 6 billion people on the planet: http://opr.princeton.edu/popclock of which a lot of those are chinese who have vicious censorship on IP feeds. you can kick in india too, so that cuts it down a bit further. handing out blocks to organisations who then delegate using the various reserved nets for private networks conserves a lot of them. i don't recall the RFC, but it specifies them. From geoff@collyer.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 10:20:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 323c02c6_93fb_11d8_8873_00304828b574_7873; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C13634417D for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 320af154_93fb_11d8_92e7_00304828b574_7858; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B8B48758101; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CDE7580FD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e0f8e70_93fb_11d8_81ab_00304828b574_7356; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430DE344936 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:12:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2511724e_93fa_11d8_9e57_00304828b574_31551; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:12:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF3DB1A131; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90D241A11D; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:12:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4EF4819B88; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 095EE19D1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <477db556990e6fffc3d346a76255eebe@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040422104744.2c87afc2@garlic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:11:03 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Ligatures were almost certainly added to troff to exploit the fonts on the GSI CAT/4 phototypesetter that troff was originally intended to drive. It had ligatures for ff, fi, fl, Fi and perhaps Fl in its font set. (We had a CAT/8 [with twice the fonts!] at the U of T comp. center.) As nice as 1200 dpi laser printer fonts look, the phototypesetter output was gorgeous. No jaggies at all. You can see reproductions of phototypesetter output in the early books, at least, from 1127: K&R 1, Software Tools and The Elements of Programming Style, for example. The phototypesetter output (after being developed) was even sharper. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 10:20:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43c0796e_93fb_11d8_8a93_00304828b574_8328; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AA134415E for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4364c61e_93fb_11d8_949f_00304828b574_8305; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2BA8A75810E; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E7C758121 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36596812_93fb_11d8_9254_00304828b574_8150; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5115434491B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5039f32_93fa_11d8_90ec_00304828b574_5027; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CA831A127; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 61BA21A127; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:17:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E3A1C1A127; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3CF019E79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.209.173]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 848523786A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:16:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006701c42807$03f55b70$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <477db556990e6fffc3d346a76255eebe@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:13:26 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Ligatures were almost certainly added to troff to exploit the fonts on > the GSI CAT/4 phototypesetter that troff was originally intended to > drive. i'm with you, captain. From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 10:23:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3943870_93fb_11d8_83e5_00304828b574_10960; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C624344285 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b362ddb6_93fb_11d8_93ca_00304828b574_10957; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2D8577580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E128E7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3274440_93fb_11d8_8233_00304828b574_10954; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF15C344285 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b278ca3c_93fb_11d8_8a27_00304828b574_10951; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:23:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 990141A141; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B486519E6F; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:23:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D9D919E79; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 92B9F1A0E7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3M1LpNZ015270; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:21:51 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Cc: geoff@collyer.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures Message-Id: <20040422112151.5c2753f0@garlic> In-Reply-To: <477db556990e6fffc3d346a76255eebe@collyer.net> References: <20040422104744.2c87afc2@garlic> <477db556990e6fffc3d346a76255eebe@collyer.net> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:21:51 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: geoff, I loved my ll and ff and ffl too, and I loved the smell of that wet process paper spitting out of the 100dpi printer we had, and I even loved the two hypen cutmarks added to tell me where to cut the paper to get A4 back. (hell, I even loved the mistaken TBL throw-back of 2mil or so which Lesk told me was to fix the over-correct of the mechanical typesetter doing table boxes) but, the thing I really loved most of all was the W O R D S I haven't met a printer yet who didn't want to get down into the paper tape driving their bromide-cutter and freak a bit with the positioning before the photons hit the phototypesetter. With the best will in the world, each of them has their own idea of what it 'should' look like. lligatures are a ccompromise for these people. They'd rather be carving them by hand. -George From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:04 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 10:40:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14cb5838_93fe_11d8_9b9f_00304828b574_25093; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D60134497A for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1495b2aa_93fe_11d8_8791_00304828b574_25088; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 477917580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DCA7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 145a8cac_93fe_11d8_8594_00304828b574_25084; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FC6344978 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13b0a502_93fe_11d8_857a_00304828b574_25081; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E83119E69; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE43F1A148; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:40:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 18D2F1A14E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E647519E69 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.209.173]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BED05573D4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:39:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008001c4280a$3056dec0$a4517d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040422104744.2c87afc2@garlic><477db556990e6fffc3d346a76255eebe@collyer.net> <20040422112151.5c2753f0@garlic> Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:36:05 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > geoff, I loved my ll and ff and ffl too, and I loved the smell of that wet process smelled like ... victory. From nemo@lsub.org Thu Apr 22 23:30:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 16:12:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 795d412a_942c_11d8_9fe5_00304828b574_29859; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F060E344EEC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 792be72e_942c_11d8_9939_00304828b574_29855; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D42147580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9807580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78ed967c_942c_11d8_883e_00304828b574_29852; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4840344EEC for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 784543f0_942c_11d8_8c98_00304828b574_29844; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:12:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DAA11A141; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:12:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36E531A141; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:12:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70C1F19EBA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F385619EDF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20040420204032.12a9eac7.diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:11:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Plan9 is not ahead of anything. It's most of the world who is 30 years behind. Fortune? Should be there, IMHO. From nemo@lsub.org Thu Apr 22 23:30:08 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 16:15:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd4962cc_942c_11d8_8999_00304828b574_32269; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5123A344EFF for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dceb23e2_942c_11d8_89db_00304828b574_32266; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3F0CC7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA2F7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc826adc_942c_11d8_80c2_00304828b574_32263; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E903344EFF for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db85a75c_942c_11d8_8f54_00304828b574_32259; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:15:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 018881A187; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A79C19BA3; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:15:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3692C1A141; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 458DD19FE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <12c63e4238729e9b41a0d889d51485c9@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uxhezskseteglojjtlokgapmhw" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:14:19 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uxhezskseteglojjtlokgapmhw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries give you nothing. I'd keep just plumb send look scroll --upas-uxhezskseteglojjtlokgapmhw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Wed Apr 21 10:54:29 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1F8219CE6; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F023919C1E; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:54:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A01319CDC; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 34C4E19C5F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12c63e4238729e9b41a0d889d51485c9@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:45:26 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'd love having Look in rio. i've made two or three half-hearted passes at doing it myself over the last few years, but never finished any of them. my solution to it making the button 2 menu too croweded was to remove the cut/snarf/paste options in favor of chording. in one of my passes at Look, i had the menu changed (-cut/snarf/past, +non-functional look) and i didn't look for the missing options once. but i realize that's a solution many here would hate. maybe options for including sets of features? the addition of plumb was, i think, quite noticable. =E3=82=A2 --upas-uxhezskseteglojjtlokgapmhw-- From geoff@collyer.net Thu Apr 22 23:30:09 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 16:31:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a577bda_942f_11d8_9483_00304828b574_13084; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ACAE344F3B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a20dad0_942f_11d8_83d5_00304828b574_13081; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1A4107580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:16 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56707580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09e8f570_942f_11d8_84b4_00304828b574_13078; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1D4344F3B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 093fe610_942f_11d8_9e94_00304828b574_13075; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8889D1A18D; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F4AA1A17B; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:30:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4CAE11A17F; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (p9auth.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CEB1A1A17B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Geoff Collyer To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ipv6 arrives Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:29:50 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: If you pull, then compile and boot new kernels, you'll be nearly able to use IPv6, even through gateways. You'll still need ipconfig6, IPv6 address space and IPv6 connectivity. Once ipconfig6 is released, ip/ipconfig6 -A /net ether /net/ether? should configure /net for IPv6 once you've added v6 addresses to ndb: ip=2001:470:1f00:238::3 sys=cpuv6 dom=cpuv6.collyer.net I haven't worked out if all the piece parts for ip-in-ip tunnels are present in Plan 9, so if you don't have native v6 connectivity (which is likely in the US) the easiest way to get connected is to get 64 bits of address space from Hurricane Electric for free at www.tunnelbroker.com, and configure a v6-over-v4 tunnel using (l)unix. Hurricane Electric can suggest the right administrative commands for various popular (l)unixes. Once this is working, you'll be able to see the swimming turtle (``dancing kame'') at www.kame.net as confirmation of v6 connectivity, and we'll be able to exchange mail by v6, which should throw the spammers off the scent for a while. From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 22 23:30:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 17:55:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5a1e842_943a_11d8_8ab4_00304828b574_23269; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFD8345A81 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5627766_943a_11d8_91ce_00304828b574_23264; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8A5BE7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379417580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5228444_943a_11d8_99f3_00304828b574_23261; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474D9345A81 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4751cbe_943a_11d8_874f_00304828b574_23258; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:55:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63EFD1A185; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 358101A161; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:55:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9023319CCB; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CA9119C0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id E9AE34DC; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:53:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082534D9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:53:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05328 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:54:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] Ligatures From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> References: <001501c427f4$8370fca0$a4517d50@SOMA> <20040422091225.3abee279@garlic> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082589349.3238.0.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:56:04 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 00:12, George Michaelson wrote: > Its always appealed to me that ligatures are the small threads you tie around > arteries on bleeding stumps after a successful amputation, and which are pulled > on to reveal the laudible pus, or fateful corruption... :-) Also a fine cord used for strangulation. From lucio@proxima.alt.za Thu Apr 22 23:30:10 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 17:57:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c700236_943b_11d8_87b4_00304828b574_24866; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F9D345A93 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c39493a_943b_11d8_81c8_00304828b574_24863; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 68B687580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD037580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1bffbc7e_943b_11d8_8f4f_00304828b574_24860; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28808345A93 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b4fdb6a_943b_11d8_8488_00304828b574_24857; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:57:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC4D11A17F; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C00941A161; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:57:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 086361A174; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparkle.iba.co.za (server.iba.co.za [196.30.44.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D88BC19B79 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by sparkle.iba.co.za (8.11.7/8.11.5) with ESMTP id i3M8uaD27030 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:56:40 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Organization: Proxima Research & Development From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.3(snapshot 20030221) (sparkle) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:56:30 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the > menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have > a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries > give you nothing. Maybe I'm clumsy, but I use Snarf from the menu in preference to Cut+Paste if for no other reason than the cursor moves when I press buttons, making my life difficult. Cut and Paste I can do without, on the other hand. ++L From lucio@proxima.alt.za Thu Apr 22 23:30:11 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 19:58:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 058795b4_944c_11d8_83ad_00304828b574_4002; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837323451CA for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0555965e_944c_11d8_8439_00304828b574_3999; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 66DEB7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF0B7580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 051649cc_944c_11d8_8b01_00304828b574_3996; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287E23451CA for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 04658ed4_944c_11d8_98ab_00304828b574_3993; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:58:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 255BC1A196; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD07D19EBF; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9932D19EC7; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 043751A18E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3MAux04014883 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:57:00 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Obvious mail system error? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:56:54 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: What could cause the following entry to be generated in /sys/log/mail for every incoming mail message without apparently affecting the actual message delivery? huddle Apr 22 12:50:04 lock error: /mail/tmp/L.mbox: access permission denied The permissions are: d-rwxrwxrwx M 9 upas upas 0 Apr 22 12:50 /mail/tmp I also get a large number of /mail/tmp/mine.NNN messages left over. This also seems like something broken in my configuration. Suggestions on how to fix it? ++L From salomo3@cooper.edu Thu Apr 22 23:30:13 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 22 21:56:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84dbd7fc_945c_11d8_9892_00304828b574_9909; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12977345337 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84a5015a_945c_11d8_9faa_00304828b574_9906; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F1B0F7580FA; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A267580F9 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8469900c_945c_11d8_9b82_00304828b574_9903; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF35345337 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83c040e2_945c_11d8_82d6_00304828b574_9893; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6FEBF1A1A1; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4A70B1A199; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:56:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4662F1A19C; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5DAB41A19A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 9657C393A; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A1D03937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adjective.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.221]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1652.199.98.20.221.1082637825.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <20040420204032.12a9eac7.diegocg-yoquetuquitabaesto-@teleline.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Plan 9 on the desktop? From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:43:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Plan9 is not ahead of anything. It's most of the world who is 30 years >> behind. > > Fortune? > Should be there, IMHO. patch(1) --Joel From steve.simon@snellwilcox.com Fri Apr 23 08:26:41 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 04:54:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebb908b6_9496_11d8_8e6d_00304828b574_14967; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA9A345BD3 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb881db4_9496_11d8_8768_00304828b574_14964; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5C19C7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1550F7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb48c7a4_9496_11d8_9f23_00304828b574_14961; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA19345BD3 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eaa0c072_9496_11d8_80c6_00304828b574_14958; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AEE651A1A1; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F2E881A155; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:54:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C464A1A14A; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paris.quintile.net (cpc1-sout4-6-0-cust121.sot3.cable.ntl.com [81.96.207.121]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AD9219ED9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <901dea28d459decab416b3dc637b77fe@snellwilcox.com> From: "Steve Simon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] 100BaseT pcmcia in use? Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:53:35 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, The supported PC hardware page mentions the linksys fastether and accton-etherpair 100BaseT ethernet cards as "not widely used" Anyone using either of these with the current kernel and drivers? Also could anyone supply a bit more detail? linksys have two cards that fit the description, which may be re-packaging, but may be different chipsets... Thanks, -Steve From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 12:47:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fcc64078_94d8_11d8_8906_00304828b574_13420; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00E3345904 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc8ed7f0_94d8_11d8_9fee_00304828b574_13417; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B5CC57580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CF77580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc55bdf8_94d8_11d8_9aec_00304828b574_13414; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813E4345904 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fba63da6_94d8_11d8_8b86_00304828b574_13411; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C909B1A20E; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D2801A202; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:47:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C5A61A204; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 71E041A200 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2655A37848 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:46:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Subject: [9fans] telnet Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:44:04 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: it seems that telnet has departed from the man page and the utility of using it (albiet not strictly correctly) with smtp, pop, ftp etc ... has also been lost. here is a diff so you can: telnet host telnet host!service service can be textual or numeric. as far as i can see 'net' [see netmkaddr] will always be 'tcp'. brahma% diff /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip telnet.c 41c41 < fatal("usage: telnet [-Cdnr] net!host[!service]", 0, 0); --- > fatal("usage: telnet [-Cdnr] host[!service]", 0, 0); 80a81,85 > enum { > Thost, > Tservice, > }; > 82c87 < * dial and return a data connection --- > * dial host[!service] and return a data connection 89a95,96 > int n; > char *to[2]; 91c98,110 < name = netmkaddr(dest, "tcp", "telnet"); --- > to[Thost] = dest; > to[Tservice] = "telnet"; > > switch (n = getfields(dest, to, nelem(to), 0, "!")) { > case 2: > case 1: > break; > > default: > usage(); > } > > name = netmkaddr(to[Thost], "tcp", to[Tservice]); all done with drawterm [to NY], mousepad and 2 buttons. i have not hacked the man page into shape. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 12:54:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f6000688_94d9_11d8_8936_00304828b574_18861; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06F43459CA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5c8d2d0_94d9_11d8_935c_00304828b574_18858; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D2A007580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893677580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5884062_94d9_11d8_8fe3_00304828b574_18855; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A177B3459CA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4e0169e_94d9_11d8_98e2_00304828b574_18852; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:54:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D5BA1A209; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 860AC1A200; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:54:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6A4F81A204; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6851E1A200 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F5C337842 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:53:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005d01c428e6$13358440$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:50:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: damn, 'int n;' is redundant, but was written with some hope to do: net!host!service two selects and cuts and it's gone. From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 13:06:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7960374_94db_11d8_9c54_00304828b574_30455; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB618344257 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6f112ce_94db_11d8_8a91_00304828b574_30448; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6D9FB7580FD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291907580FC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a69f9462_94db_11d8_8e4d_00304828b574_30444; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:06:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606403448F8 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:03:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d7ce694_94db_11d8_9cd2_00304828b574_26260; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:03:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 632051A20F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5661F1A216; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:02:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7F33B1A210; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 363C81A211 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u33so3214cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.2.59 with SMTP id 59mr6456rnb; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:01:03 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: telnet tcp!host!pop3 works fine with the current source code. telnet host!pop3 has never worked -- a!b means net!host. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 13:16:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c6c8e8e_94dd_11d8_9e22_00304828b574_9209; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA723442ED for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0c38efde_94dd_11d8_8cd1_00304828b574_9202; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5FF457580FC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76638758109 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a0e4722_94dd_11d8_8699_00304828b574_9172; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3409034488A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:08:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e779e672_94db_11d8_85ef_00304828b574_32494; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:08:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BB4501A218; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EB43219FE3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29C1A19BA7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1856B1A1EE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 593A937839 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:07:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007501c428e8$1b974a40$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:04:42 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > telnet tcp!host!pop3 works fine with the current source code. > telnet host!pop3 has never worked -- a!b means net!host. i know that. telnet's net is tcp, so net is rather redundant. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 13:21:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a84824da_94dd_11d8_8f6b_00304828b574_14617; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6E03442E2 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a80eaca0_94dd_11d8_9a59_00304828b574_14610; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2709C758102; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9647580FD for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a4013308_94dd_11d8_92a9_00304828b574_14173; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F133449AF for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:11:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5488dc3c_94dc_11d8_81ea_00304828b574_3404; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:11:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 556A41A229; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22DB11A201; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:11:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 790391A201; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7B22419FE3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E9A57575E5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:10:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007901c428e8$7e29f860$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:07:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > telnet tcp!host!pop3 works fine with the current source code. > telnet host!pop3 has never worked -- a!b means net!host. then again, 'tcp' is not a net it's a protocol. and "tcp" is hard coded with a aforementioned constant in telnet.c From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 13:58:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5686cee_94e2_11d8_8bdc_00304828b574_11800; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6DB344BDC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5337318_94e2_11d8_97b5_00304828b574_11796; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7E5F87580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3781F7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4f58f9e_94e2_11d8_92af_00304828b574_11792; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5010B344BDC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e44dc8d6_94e2_11d8_9e42_00304828b574_11789; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:58:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 40CF019CA8; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8CF8E19BBA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:58:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D050119C43; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.244]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id A40AE19BE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so2418cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.7 with SMTP id v7mr6680cwb; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> <007501c428e8$1b974a40$48db7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:57:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > telnet's net is tcp, so net is rather redundant. so let's make it different from every other program? there might be more than one tcp. right now it works great to run telnet /net.alt/tcp!outside-machine. why does it need to be tcp? it just shuttles bytes around if it's not connecting to a telnet port, so telnet il!emelie!9fs works fine. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 14:13:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id faf4b070_94e4_11d8_8ce7_00304828b574_24200; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2569344C47 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fac288f2_94e4_11d8_9468_00304828b574_24197; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A45637580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9267580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa8240bc_94e4_11d8_8771_00304828b574_24194; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70182344C47 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9d6ce58_94e4_11d8_928e_00304828b574_24191; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:13:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88CD419DDA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7055619D7E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:13:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E12A719D7E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C11B219CEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 43BF0379BA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:12:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> <007501c428e8$1b974a40$48db7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:09:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > there might be more than one tcp. right now it > works great to run telnet /net.alt/tcp!outside-machine. all the world is not 11271. /net or /net.alt should be irrelevant. the routing should just work. it does on lunix and the last time i was in the unix room binding /net.alt it just worked too. > why does it need to be tcp? it doesn't. > it just shuttles bytes around if it's not connecting to a telnet port, > so telnet il!emelie!9fs works fine. il died years ago. it should be transparent, and as i've said before the CODE bound it to 'net' 'tcp'. it should also allow the flexibility to choose how you want to connect. but these are all moot points. telnet talks tcp, for almost all cases. the code in netmkaddr() and telnet play games, which should not be played. From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 14:44:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d7eb4a4_94e9_11d8_9786_00304828b574_22461; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3786F34434A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4d476a80_94e9_11d8_9bde_00304828b574_22457; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 10F9A7580FF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:30 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB501758104 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 483273dc_94e9_11d8_95e8_00304828b574_22388; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB8E344ACE for ; 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Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> <007501c428e8$1b974a40$48db7d50@SOMA> <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:33:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: you're wrong. addresses passed to telnet should be interpreted the same way as they are by all the other programs. there is no good reason telnet should be different, except that for some reason you refuse to type four extra characters. if you want to do less typing, use con tcp!host!pop3 instead of telnet tcp!host!pop3 From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 14:45:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 64449ba4_94e9_11d8_9415_00304828b574_23474; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747CA344A66 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6413d578_94e9_11d8_9c1a_00304828b574_23467; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 33AA67580FF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:12 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA22A758100 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5f7a96d2_94e9_11d8_807d_00304828b574_22944; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA17344A8B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:43:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2dc82366_94e9_11d8_8b90_00304828b574_21408; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:43:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A442F1A1D3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81EDC19F15; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:43:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B2A881A0E6; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C06B419F15 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E373937A84 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:42:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00d601c428f5$4d11b080$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <003501c428e5$39cdffc0$48db7d50@SOMA> <007501c428e8$1b974a40$48db7d50@SOMA> <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:39:08 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > you're wrong. i don't think so. > telnet tcp!host!pop3 telnet implies the telnet protocol. let's leave it as a Taylor Class 1 'argument'. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 15:58:24 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9d7272c0_94f3_11d8_8b9c_00304828b574_21373; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B593443AC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9d30fc64_94f3_11d8_9899_00304828b574_21368; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B127D758103; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D757580FE for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 998bfc76_94f3_11d8_9b95_00304828b574_21330; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6556344A63 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1f98526_94f2_11d8_931a_00304828b574_14849; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2AC9319F14; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5CC7819B71; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDED019F1A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8A38319C5B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0cb45ce1a91a4430636e0be90e9d12cc@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:52:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** >>all the world is not 11271. /net or /net.alt should be irrelevant. >>the routing should just work. it does on lunix and the last time /net.alt is often used to AVOID having routing between the networks, which is exactly why someone added a bizarre scheme to xBSD to get a similar effect to Plan 9's having distinct network stacks on #I0 #I1 ... reaches for B-52 From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 15:59:06 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b6385748_94f3_11d8_86d8_00304828b574_22026; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC49344AA5 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b603e60c_94f3_11d8_942b_00304828b574_21994; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3F68B758101; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7250758106 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b39221b8_94f3_11d8_8389_00304828b574_21676; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC68344AA5 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cfbc6070_94f2_11d8_83c5_00304828b574_14981; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8329919F45; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC66519F3B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:52:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5827519AFD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0E88219F1A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:53:18 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_XX autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** >> if you want >>to do less typing, use a script a function From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:44 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 16:06:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca1b2cee_94f4_11d8_9eb2_00304828b574_30741; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28193441AE for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9e06b36_94f4_11d8_821a_00304828b574_30735; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 05EE57580FB; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B921758100 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bff89f12_94f4_11d8_86f1_00304828b574_30589; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:06:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FD1344596 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f373d26_94f3_11d8_8e56_00304828b574_20575; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C3FDE19F58; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5975B19F05; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:57:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6536319F30; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4883419EAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6397037AD3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:56:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <010501c428ff$9faaf810$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <0cb45ce1a91a4430636e0be90e9d12cc@terzarima.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:53:00 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > reaches for B-52 ARC LIGHT? From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Fri Apr 23 19:30:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 16:27:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b45de2d6_94f7_11d8_8976_00304828b574_15284; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C544A344DB1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b42c3204_94f7_11d8_8e41_00304828b574_15281; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AB1717580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C837580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3edf4f8_94f7_11d8_9195_00304828b574_15278; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7963E344DB4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b344ebce_94f7_11d8_869f_00304828b574_15269; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAF8419EC7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 707CF19F14; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:27:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30C0A19EC7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9993619EAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:26:54 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:26:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040423T002652Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: 9fans mailing list <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 07:26:54.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A3187E0:01C42904] Subject: [9fans] Alpha Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:26:52 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Does anyone run Plan 9 on the Alpha? I know that the Alpha platform must = be booted via bootp/tftp. Must these services be running on another Plan = 9 system, or can I simply compile the bootloader and kernel, and move them = over to another platform to be served up under another OS? I simply can't = afford to keep another Plan 9 system around to boot the Alpha... Thanks in advance for any tips From rm@hamnavoe.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:09:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 97bc70c4_94fd_11d8_9cf5_00304828b574_17435; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8762344E6B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 978af152_94fd_11d8_8f11_00304828b574_17432; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9A1FB7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534307580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 974ba2d6_94fd_11d8_8c26_00304828b574_17429; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBA4344E6B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 96a46980_94fd_11d8_9ada_00304828b574_17426; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F35A1A1BF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 909051A1FE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:09:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A5161A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACE4619CB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:06:03 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > il died years ago. Not quite dead yet, just very il. All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else outside 11271 who still does this? From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:22:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c8c2154_94ff_11d8_9d00_00304828b574_31568; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3E2344B12 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c535cca_94ff_11d8_9215_00304828b574_31563; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B239D7580FF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B854758101 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69e72048_94ff_11d8_92d1_00304828b574_31530; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:22:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04AA344B12 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:16:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a12628e_94fe_11d8_830b_00304828b574_24801; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:16:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4932619C88; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4382319F1D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:16:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E4219F32; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BC5119EA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E2B7576B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:15:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <017901c4290a$ad8a24a0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:12:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else > outside 11271 who still does this? good question. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:29:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6841aed8_9500_11d8_9d0a_00304828b574_7232; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BDBC3442FB for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 67e5d978_9500_11d8_9bac_00304828b574_7228; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 984487580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA3A7580FC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 65b4a8d2_9500_11d8_9f48_00304828b574_7195; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B323442C4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60aef8c4_9500_11d8_9971_00304828b574_7131; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:29:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 603021A226; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BFFE1A218; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:29:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B6D81A221; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8876E1A21E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6e6cd1947630435d783c765cb37e1646@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vsgryzckkcwxoowrqstgyneavq" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:30:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vsgryzckkcwxoowrqstgyneavq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i use il on nearly all my/our systems for file service. indeed, given that two of them use /sys/src/fs as kernel and one of those has a jukebox, that's nearly essential, but even otherwise, i'm not convinced that il can't be made to outperform tcp/ip on some network/transport types (eg, because of Ildataquery), and compared to some code modules that need to be kept compiling, it's anyway not all that big. apart from il, i have used telnet (with the telnet protocol) over ILAP and also in environments where /net.alt was indeed a distinct stack, amongst others. --upas-vsgryzckkcwxoowrqstgyneavq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 23 09:08:47 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57F7F1A1C3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 512771A1FE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:09:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A5161A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ACE4619CB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <00b301c428f1$1ec6f040$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:06:03 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > il died years ago. Not quite dead yet, just very il. All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else outside 11271 who still does this? --upas-vsgryzckkcwxoowrqstgyneavq-- From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:39:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c747effe_9501_11d8_8c26_00304828b574_15030; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76473344E81 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c712a0ce_9501_11d8_86f4_00304828b574_15027; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 61F8E7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A61C7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6d91ea8_9501_11d8_9603_00304828b574_15024; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A67344E81 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6308f68_9501_11d8_9697_00304828b574_15021; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:39:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF4AA1A22A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B6E41A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFC881A225; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF5AC1A1F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9971577F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <019d01c4290d$e2d833b0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6e6cd1947630435d783c765cb37e1646@terzarima.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:35:08 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: why not bind your chosen /net* (on a per window basis) and then telnet? From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:40:12 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5b75caa_9501_11d8_97d3_00304828b574_15770; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A509D344E86 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d57df456_9501_11d8_90a6_00304828b574_15763; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:11 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9047B7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4288F7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5404d04_9501_11d8_8455_00304828b574_15753; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F265344E86 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4910006_9501_11d8_8380_00304828b574_15682; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3B4241A236; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 265E71A22C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B17E41A218; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 32BB119B76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3N8cGCi024485 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3N8cGXO013296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3N8cH402415 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:17 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404230838.i3N8cH402415@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:06:03 +0100." <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> References: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.67, clamav-milter version 0.66n Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:16 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > il died years ago. > > Not quite dead yet, just very il. > > All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else > outside 11271 who still does this? My file server still runs ken (non-fossil) fs and thus only speaks il. (transition to venti/fossil still in progress - I have fossil (non-venti), and a venti running, but not for the main file system) The home machine used to connect over tcp via trampoline on cpu server, nowadays it imports/aan the root fs from the cpu server. Axel. From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:40:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e85a4336_9501_11d8_9303_00304828b574_15814; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7377344E8A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e7f98d16_9501_11d8_96f5_00304828b574_15811; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9379D7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A687580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e771692c_9501_11d8_96c5_00304828b574_15808; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B90344E8A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e69e4038_9501_11d8_8d14_00304828b574_15805; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 698F51A22A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 304A91A22B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:40:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B17E31A223; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0805A19B76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <017901c4290a$ad8a24a0$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-thstiekbknbulkngkvvrlzsxii" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:53 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-thstiekbknbulkngkvvrlzsxii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do. --upas-thstiekbknbulkngkvvrlzsxii Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 23 10:16:30 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8C7AE19AFD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF4EA19AFD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:16:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 83E4219F32; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6BC5119EA1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E2B7576B5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:15:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <017901c4290a$ad8a24a0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:12:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else > outside 11271 who still does this? good question. --upas-thstiekbknbulkngkvvrlzsxii-- From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:41:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa233f82_9501_11d8_8761_00304828b574_16564; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1989344E8A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f9ebab76_9501_11d8_9e5c_00304828b574_16561; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7D7EA7580F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:12 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36AFB7580FA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f991ffcc_9501_11d8_9278_00304828b574_16554; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D30344E8C for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f8e996f2_9501_11d8_9191_00304828b574_16478; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:41:11 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 588661A241; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6C5D1A22B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:41:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 437D11A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87FCA1A228 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a5d3236cc9d248d5bf026803f158963@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:39:15 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I'm still using IL to the original file server. At least until I've beaten on fossil for a long time and had it not fail, I'm sticking to Ken's. A failed fossil may be easy to reinitialiase, with its data in venti, but that's not really good enough for unattended operation. I may also want to continue using optical jukeboxes, so there's some code to move to user-land from Ken's fs. From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:43:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 55a5c5a0_9502_11d8_81e9_00304828b574_18224; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4EE344E9C for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5526299e_9502_11d8_88a3_00304828b574_18211; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8DE897580FB; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484437580FA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54d1b8c8_9502_11d8_9c92_00304828b574_18201; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48AE344E9C for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 534b1134_9502_11d8_80e0_00304828b574_18174; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:43:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7C6291A248; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 67A4A1A22B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:43:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 26B061A22E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D6D3D1A237 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <3a5d3236cc9d248d5bf026803f158963@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:42:55 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I'm still using IL to the original file server. At least until I've > beaten on fossil for a long time and had it not fail, I'm sticking to > Ken's. A failed fossil may be easy to reinitialiase, with its data in > venti, but that's not really good enough for unattended operation. I > may also want to continue using optical jukeboxes, so there's some > code to move to user-land from Ken's fs. Our file system runs mostly unattended. I admit a cron reboots it once a week, but that's for safety :-) From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:44:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73c5aea6_9502_11d8_845f_00304828b574_19089; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92822344EA0 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 73662b70_9502_11d8_8bb2_00304828b574_19085; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6B0587580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFD57580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 72c96f42_9502_11d8_9ede_00304828b574_19075; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D457344EA1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 71f4e7fe_9502_11d8_9be0_00304828b574_19057; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:44:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C7F841A254; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B91FB1A24B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 978311A249; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D2971A22B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85a83343114366a9d7e118b51a929c7d@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <019d01c4290d$e2d833b0$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qzmgyhtpplwddckyebdgmpghmh" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:43:33 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qzmgyhtpplwddckyebdgmpghmh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sometimes that works, but sometimes one needs access to inside and outside networks in the same window. --upas-qzmgyhtpplwddckyebdgmpghmh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from collyer.net ([10.9.0.12]) by collyer.net; Fri Apr 23 01:39:48 PDT 2004 Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by collyer.net; Fri Apr 23 01:39:48 PDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 90DCF1A229; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 80DF21A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:39:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BFC881A225; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF5AC1A1F9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9971577F2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <019d01c4290d$e2d833b0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6e6cd1947630435d783c765cb37e1646@terzarima.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:35:08 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: why not bind your chosen /net* (on a per window basis) and then telnet? --upas-qzmgyhtpplwddckyebdgmpghmh-- From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:45:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 99aaa964_9502_11d8_8d6f_00304828b574_19912; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F49E344EA1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9975c9f6_9502_11d8_9e86_00304828b574_19909; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5EF137580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D847580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 993e6b3c_9502_11d8_82f4_00304828b574_19906; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30064344EA1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 989715c6_9502_11d8_8e17_00304828b574_19903; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:45:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 22F681A256; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AEF331A24B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:45:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C24A81A24D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87BF21A249 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00de823c52c54e81247cc4cccb1d1227@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:44:36 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: What do you think would happen if you didn't reboot once a week? From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:49:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25daf15a_9503_11d8_9c82_00304828b574_23037; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64396344EAA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 25810546_9503_11d8_806a_00304828b574_23034; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 469337580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962DE7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2507977e_9503_11d8_93e9_00304828b574_23031; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E9D344EAA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2434db18_9503_11d8_8ed4_00304828b574_23028; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C36001A263; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9CBD71A258; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:49:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4C09C19C0F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57B6F19A7F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <00de823c52c54e81247cc4cccb1d1227@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mldbdeywhlwymxchxfbpunzamf" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:48:16 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mldbdeywhlwymxchxfbpunzamf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I'd have memory leaks and the file server (which is also the web, mail, blah... server) would degrade. Once a week is a good guarantee for me that I can forget about any kind of leaks. I think the lack of user processes in Ken's is a feature, not a bug. Sometimes I've even thought about forbidding all kind of processes (but fossil) in the file server. --upas-mldbdeywhlwymxchxfbpunzamf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 23 10:45:29 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 422B61A250; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 709691A249; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:45:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C24A81A24D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 87BF21A249 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00de823c52c54e81247cc4cccb1d1227@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:44:36 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: What do you think would happen if you didn't reboot once a week? --upas-mldbdeywhlwymxchxfbpunzamf-- From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:54:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db71a43c_9503_11d8_90bc_00304828b574_26930; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DA9344EBE for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id db381816_9503_11d8_9bf8_00304828b574_26927; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 327BC7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58147580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dafa78c6_9503_11d8_91fb_00304828b574_26924; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF88344EBE for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id da46c3e4_9503_11d8_8c5f_00304828b574_26921; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E47931A269; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AE20A1A25D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 512741A25D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 39B321A260 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 91948616; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:52:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D950614 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:52:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19236 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:53:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> References: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082710487.1860.17.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:54:48 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else > outside 11271 who still does this? Not yet ... but I'm a) irrascible enough, b) will be running a wlan at some point that I might possibly do that to a) rebel against established standards b) get some security through obscurity c) keep P9 on it's toes WRT multiple protocols. d) see how well it works. :-) Dave. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:55:34 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb865880_9503_11d8_986e_00304828b574_27715; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20300344EC0 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb518cd6_9503_11d8_83d6_00304828b574_27712; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0D89B7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACB07580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb198886_9503_11d8_99fe_00304828b574_27709; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CCF344EC0 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fa720b10_9503_11d8_9d67_00304828b574_27706; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:55:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BC8211A275; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6DF7C1A263; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:55:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA921A269; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 614E81A222 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5123C577F5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:54:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01bb01c42910$1ba8a830$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:02 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Our file system runs mostly unattended. I admit a cron reboots it > once a week, but that's for safety :-) i wouldn't define that as 'unattended'. machines used to run for months to years without reboots. From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:47 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:57:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 445c85ca_9504_11d8_87ba_00304828b574_29351; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506DA344ECC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 44276b74_9504_11d8_8fe3_00304828b574_29348; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3D9F67580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB57D7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43ef99c4_9504_11d8_83da_00304828b574_29345; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BE9344ECC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43487360_9504_11d8_8434_00304828b574_29341; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:57:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F00A11A277; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9343E1A271; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 78A841A263; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1782B1A269 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Alpha From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040423T002652Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:56:29 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: My alpha seems to be broken. I had been booting it from Plan 9. I think that your dhcp server just needs to provide the options that Plan 9 expects (where's the file server, auth server, etc.?) or you have to supply that information in /alpha/conf. There didn't seem to be much advantage to Plan 9 on the Alpha aside from floating point speed and a non-x86 CPU. From hch@engr.sgi.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:58:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b0617cc_9504_11d8_821b_00304828b574_30130; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF27344ECF for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ad00d8a_9504_11d8_846e_00304828b574_30127; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1AFC87580FB; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C534C7580FA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a95fae6_9504_11d8_8281_00304828b574_30124; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD55344ECF for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69ecfde2_9504_11d8_8b6c_00304828b574_30117; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:58:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8642C1A281; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C5EE41A26A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:58:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 408F81A226; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 742221A278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGwSt-0003Jw-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:55:19 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Christoph Hellwig Message-ID: <20040422173022.GA28499@lst.de> Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <086a01c4272b$dc362730$0fca7d50@SOMA>, Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:55:07 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 12:19:47AM +0000, ron minnich wrote: > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > > > > how long does it take to recompile the entire system if you have a bug in > > printf? > > wrong question. On many of these later systems, as I said, app .o is tied > to lib .so. So it doesn't matter if you just rebuild the library -- the > app may not be fixed because it is tied to (e.g.) GLIBC 2.0 versioned > symbols, and the fixed symbols are later versions. So you replace a broken > libc.so with a new one, and guess what? not all your apps are fixed. You > have to replace the apps anyway, so they'll use the right symbols. Your statement doesn't make a lot of sense. The symbol version is incremented when the interface changes, e.g. FILE grows or off_t or what the heck. It's not incremented when the implementation changes. And when you look over glibs you'll the symbols with older versions are usually wrappers around the current version. And even if not you can be sure the maintainers will fix all versions if it's possible without changing the interface. That beeing said I'm the last one to defend glibc's bloat, but in a system where you can't easily rebuild all binaries for whatever reason shared libraries and symbol versioning makes a lot of sense. From pcanning@vmware.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:59:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7eb11e66_9504_11d8_9d95_00304828b574_30894; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D774344ED4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e7b2ff4_9504_11d8_9855_00304828b574_30891; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1A9027580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:14 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49367580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e40fd70_9504_11d8_8bae_00304828b574_30885; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA559344ED4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d9771a6_9504_11d8_90c9_00304828b574_30876; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97C031A277; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F2351A263; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C57641A269; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 894411A226 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGwTP-0003L3-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:55:51 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Peter Canning Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <431f0d54a403b3e22c624f3de62941eb@plan9.escet.urjc.es>, <200404210719.i3L7JNs09837@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:55:20 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:20:51 +0000, Axel Belinfante wrote: >> > Notwithstanding acme's nice colors, one wily feature >> > I may be missing in acme is the way wily allows >> > you to use variables to keep your tag names short >>=20 >> I've seen wily name your buffers $CWD/blah, >> which is a nightmare. Same with other variables. >> I was a fan of wily usage of environment variables >> until it did bite me a couple of times with this issue. >=20 > I use a wrapper function to start wily; it explicitly undefines > those variables that bit me. Then it works fine for me. >=20 I love this feature of wily. I always start wily from $HOME, so $PWD is always $HOME. > (apart from the fact that for buffers named as $VAR, > button3 on .. would no longer take me upwards. Never took the time to > look into that, though. ) >=20 I posted patches to the wilyfans list to fix this and a couple related problems. > I also liked the possibility to button3 on e.g. $PLAN9/src . Hmm. could > that be done via the plumber, or would it need changes in acme? >=20 > Axel. From 9cn6w6402@sneakemail.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 17:59:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9354d7f4_9504_11d8_93d7_00304828b574_30915; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C659F344ED4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 931eba70_9504_11d8_8768_00304828b574_30912; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B2DDD7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADDC7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92e57efe_9504_11d8_91a6_00304828b574_30909; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E88344ED4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 923c1616_9504_11d8_9b06_00304828b574_30906; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4DC231A27F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8861A1A28B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B9DFE1A281; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B5B71A280 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGwTP-0003LK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:55:51 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Peter Canning <9cn6w6402@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:55:44 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:15:51 +0000, Axel Belinfante wrote: > Notwithstanding acme's nice colors, one wily feature I may be missing i= n > acme is the way wily allows you to use variables to keep your tag names > short Actually the feature I immediately found myself missing (after building plan9port and running acme) is wily's Dotfiles command that toggles whether or not dot files are displayed in directories. Unfortunately, in my typical unix home directory there are about twice as many dot files as regular files. Is there some way that I'm missing in acme to hide files whose names start with dot? I'm so psyched about having real acme in linux, I'm considering tackling two enhancements: (1) Using an XWindows resource to specify the size of the acme window. (2) Providing a command-line parameter or XWindows resource to specify swapping scrolling direction of mouse buttons 1 and 3 (to make it the sam= e as all the other programs I use). After these two, my next one would probably be some way to hide dot files= . Any objections or recommendations for how to tackle these? - Peter Canning From DAGwyn@null.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:00:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab403174_9504_11d8_97fa_00304828b574_31902; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F98344EDA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa4a095c_9504_11d8_8f8f_00304828b574_31888; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3A6667580FC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D70758101 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9c7206e_9504_11d8_8cce_00304828b574_31881; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01CA344ED9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a72abbe0_9504_11d8_8941_00304828b574_31842; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:00:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEABF1A297; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 270F71A26A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:00:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D3DE1A26A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E5CD1A269 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BGwTP-0003L9-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:55:51 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <12c63e4238729e9b41a0d889d51485c9@9srv.net>, Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:55:33 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the > menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have > a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries > give you nothing. Having used many different window systems that provide those functions in different ways, I have to disagree. From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:01:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd313b24_9504_11d8_9278_00304828b574_791; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAB1344BB8 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dc41bf68_9504_11d8_9128_00304828b574_776; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9ED737580FC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFD3758103 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id daa6eb2e_9504_11d8_8400_00304828b574_753; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465BA344EDD for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d30f92b2_9504_11d8_85d2_00304828b574_666; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8B5D31A277; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC2E01A28A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B874A1A27F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDF0F1A26A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: <01bb01c42910$1ba8a830$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bretgiobswrcditlwaslfvfdjj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:58:40 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bretgiobswrcditlwaslfvfdjj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't run uptime races, I prefer to trust the machine. In fact, Ken's (on IDE) also degraded in our case (although much more slowly). I think that "all servers have leaks" is a tautology, and therefore, I use reboot as the tool to fix that problem (Not that I don't try to fix leaks, just that I don't trust that all of them can be both detected and fixed). --upas-bretgiobswrcditlwaslfvfdjj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 23 10:55:28 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E8231A26C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EAA71A266; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:55:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DA921A269; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 614E81A222 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5123C577F5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:54:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01bb01c42910$1ba8a830$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:02 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Our file system runs mostly unattended. I admit a cron reboots it > once a week, but that's for safety :-) i wouldn't define that as 'unattended'. machines used to run for months to years without reboots. --upas-bretgiobswrcditlwaslfvfdjj-- From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:02:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f27ef552_9504_11d8_8abb_00304828b574_1822; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7085E3442D3 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2472438_9504_11d8_8cf0_00304828b574_1819; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 404F0758105; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:25 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E0C7580FA for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eef42a42_9504_11d8_9e72_00304828b574_1785; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2E2344335 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e5a9f1b0_9504_11d8_83a1_00304828b574_1254; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC1211A29D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AD6931A27F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 610C61A27F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3F4951A27A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DFFA257698 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:58:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01e101c42910$b627e560$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:55:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: if everything is a file why can't i telnet to /net*/tcp/pop.insultant.net/pop3? /net* could be completely synthetic. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:02:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fbf2b18c_9504_11d8_8dc5_00304828b574_1853; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A13F344335 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fbc28426_9504_11d8_9796_00304828b574_1850; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3EBF97580FB; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C287580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fb8830dc_9504_11d8_8aea_00304828b574_1846; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB19344335 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fada4904_9504_11d8_981a_00304828b574_1840; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:02:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 775B11A2A6; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3871C1A2A1; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E35181A296; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6164F1A27F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e1859efc66a5b8d1a0b0cd3490bba7a@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <1082710487.1860.17.camel@rea> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:03:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>c) keep P9 on it's toes WRT multiple protocols. yes, i also thought there was something to be said for that. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:03:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d6ef38e_9505_11d8_8f57_00304828b574_2639; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F09A344BB8 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d3a88e2_9505_11d8_9758_00304828b574_2635; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6DA357580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C887580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d03f3fe_9505_11d8_97a5_00304828b574_2632; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F97A344BB8 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1c5bad2a_9505_11d8_9b33_00304828b574_2629; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A8051A291; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F08541A295; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:03:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCF081A295; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFF8C1A2A2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E27E57293 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:02:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <01fb01c42911$50114b30$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <20040422173022.GA28499@lst.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:59:40 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > That beeing said I'm the last one to defend glibc's bloat, but in a > system where you can't easily rebuild all binaries for whatever > reason shared libraries and symbol versioning makes a lot of sense. and define a broken [unmaintainable] system. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:05:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c5bf2b2_9505_11d8_9448_00304828b574_4366; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7C60344EE0 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6c2998e4_9505_11d8_9038_00304828b574_4363; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CEF657580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865FB7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6becacfe_9505_11d8_8bc4_00304828b574_4360; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6A1344EE0 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b447034_9505_11d8_9993_00304828b574_4357; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D43D1A255; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 259F71A22A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:05:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 81A0E19F2B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 606531A255 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E29C357487 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <020b01c42911$8e3c35f0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:01:24 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > After these two, my next one would probably be some way to hide dot files. yeah, hack namei() to death on a per-foolishness basis. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:06:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 788bd96c_9505_11d8_81b4_00304828b574_5107; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0ED344EE2 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78573d4c_9505_11d8_9b0c_00304828b574_5103; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 486647580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:13 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29587580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 781c1078_9505_11d8_85b0_00304828b574_5100; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FEE344EE2 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77759572_9505_11d8_91df_00304828b574_5097; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:06:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4D3321A298; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CF1961A244; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:06:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 490F81A29C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1A65C1A295 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:05:35 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>After these two, my next one would probably be some way to hide dot files. i can see the problem, but it's only relevant on unix (and even some real unix systems sensibly stopped hiding them). plan 9 tucks them away in lib and elsewhere. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:07:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id acd0e17c_9505_11d8_8bff_00304828b574_6053; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EA1344EEC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac970380_9505_11d8_95ba_00304828b574_6048; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E987E7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E3C7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ac5d5b94_9505_11d8_9d59_00304828b574_6044; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB381344EEC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id abb6100a_9505_11d8_8eed_00304828b574_6038; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:07:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B8731A23D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7A4281A160; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:07:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 076ED1A23D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17A691A160 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D329577F7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:06:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <022301c42911$d4d66620$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:23 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I use reboot as the tool to fix that problem (Not that I don't try to fix > leaks, just that I don't trust that all of them can be both detected and > fixed). that is not a fix. it's a hack. From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:08:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c32c60a4_9505_11d8_8de0_00304828b574_6799; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4E9344EEC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2f642b2_9505_11d8_8329_00304828b574_6794; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 77F427580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306207580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2bcc492_9505_11d8_97ff_00304828b574_6791; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49548344EEC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2152f0c_9505_11d8_8165_00304828b574_6787; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:08:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 652D91A24A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 383B41A160; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 84A871A1F9; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8079C1A229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 30FDA577AA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:05:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <021301c42911$aa5b0090$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:02:11 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Having used many different window systems that provide > those functions in different ways, I have to disagree. yup From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:09:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1639b04_9505_11d8_9333_00304828b574_7648; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C71D344EF1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f12e30c2_9505_11d8_8609_00304828b574_7645; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 06A9B7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B229E7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0f32496_9505_11d8_85c0_00304828b574_7642; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE1B344EF1 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f04d3e32_9505_11d8_92eb_00304828b574_7639; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:09:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 134081A29D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF2441A23D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:09:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D6791A24D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 497111A23E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:08:41 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've never seen leaks nor degradation with Ken's fs and I only reboot it to change hardware, boot a new fs kernel, or move the machine. Ken's fs is just slower on IDE because the IDE code doesn't use DMA. From a@9srv.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:27:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78787112_9508_11d8_8832_00304828b574_21974; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9872344F25 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 78463c74_9508_11d8_8704_00304828b574_21971; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9DB5B7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D6E7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7804c2ee_9508_11d8_8633_00304828b574_21968; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6831F344F25 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 775c4150_9508_11d8_8de5_00304828b574_21965; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:27:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 750091A28D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C8AD71A275; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:27:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE6171A278; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D021F1A254 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: <6e6cd1947630435d783c765cb37e1646@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:24:21 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my own network uses il for its internal communication; it's four boxes including one ken-fs. i have saved somewhere performance numbers presotto came up with about a year or two ago. in those, il consistently outperformed tcp, but the margin got smaller and smaller as link speed went up, so it was considered not worth it. =E3=82=A2 From rm@hamnavoe.com Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:52:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecab4796_950b_11d8_973c_00304828b574_15344; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2771D344B0F for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec735778_950b_11d8_9a65_00304828b574_15337; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EB12D7580FB; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA7E758113 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id dd7dc4ec_950b_11d8_97aa_00304828b574_14415; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:52:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0873443A5 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8f71bb64_950b_11d8_9b6c_00304828b574_12026; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2263A1A1F4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 113F81A1F4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:49:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 370EB1A257; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk (hamnavoe.gotadsl.co.uk [213.208.117.150]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9B111A245 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Richard Miller In-Reply-To: <01e101c42910$b627e560$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:48:48 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > if everything is a file why can't i telnet to > /net*/tcp/pop.insultant.net/pop3? There already seems to be some movement towards this naming convention, eg in upasfs(4): Fs interprets mailbox file names of the form /proto/host/user to mean access an account on host using the given protocol. From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 18:57:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aab3d096_950c_11d8_9efb_00304828b574_19439; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32C5344BE5 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa7da642_950c_11d8_84b4_00304828b574_19436; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DD8777580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E787580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa43f078_950c_11d8_959a_00304828b574_19433; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6A0344BEB for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a99ae726_950c_11d8_82bd_00304828b574_19428; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:57:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4F45E19F05; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC4321A226; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:57:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB7D119FA2; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (venti.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C76519F05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6539032d477448b0012d3f61ba04e24f@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:56:49 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: /sys/doc/net/net.ms:661,687, reformatted: Several possible solutions were considered and rejected; one deserves more discussion. We could have used a user-level file server to represent the network name space as a Plan 9 file tree. This global naming scheme has been implemented in other distributed systems. The file hierarchy provides paths to directories representing network domains. Each directory contains files representing the names of the machines in that domain; an example might be the path /net/name/usa/edu/mit/ai. Each machine file contains information like the IP address of the machine. We rejected this representation for several reasons. First, it is hard to devise a hierarchy encompassing all representations of the various network addressing schemes in a uniform manner. Datakit and Ethernet address strings have nothing in common. Second, the address of a machine is often only a small part of the information required to connect to a service on the machine. For example, the IP protocols require symbolic service names to be mapped into numeric port numbers, some of which are privileged and hence special. Information of this sort is hard to represent in terms of file operations. Finally, the size and number of the networks being represented burdens users with an unacceptably large amount of information about the organization of the network and its connectivity. In this case the Plan 9 representation of a resource as a file is not appropriate. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 19:04:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a78a92aa_950d_11d8_8b8f_00304828b574_25006; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354B0344F5D for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a758d166_950d_11d8_8500_00304828b574_25003; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 196F07580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C727580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a71a7e16_950d_11d8_91b9_00304828b574_25000; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE037344F5D for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6727b12_950d_11d8_9807_00304828b574_24993; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:04:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DF031A28E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6E2E41A270; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:04:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D69141A077; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B9ABB1A258 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:14 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>as link speed went up, so it was considered not worth it. network characteristics are not all tending towards unformly high link speeds with uniformly low error rate, and the need to conserve power can be important as well. i think it's also interesting having a connection protocol oriented towards rpc (-ish) interactions not varying undelimited byte streams. there probably are other candidates but the code is already there for this one. on small devices i sometimes ditch tcp completely in favour of il and/or other things. From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Fri Apr 23 19:30:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 19:12:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ae4e2ce0_950e_11d8_818c_00304828b574_31131; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBDD344F6A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ae1a14fa_950e_11d8_9f82_00304828b574_31101; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E04BD7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:08 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9635E7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id add7f264_950e_11d8_97ce_00304828b574_31084; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9928E344F6A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad22ac6a_950e_11d8_921c_00304828b574_30996; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:12:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 58CEA19A82; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4EA8119A19; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:11:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DBA9E1A28E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B10A1A275 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3NAA1Ci002869 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:10:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3NAA1XO025691 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:10:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3NAA1w10892 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:10:02 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404231010.i3NAA1w10892@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:55:44 +0000." References: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:10:01 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Actually the feature I immediately found myself missing (after building > plan9port and running acme) is wily's Dotfiles command that toggles > whether or not dot files are displayed in directories. % cd $PLAN9/src/cmd/acme % cvs log exec.c [...] ---------------------------- revision 1.6 date: 2004/04/08 19:30:18; author: rsc; state: Exp; lines: +18 -0 Let's try this - Dotfiles toggles listing of .* in directory listings. [...] From a@9srv.net Fri Apr 23 19:30:50 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 19:21:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 047e9fcc_9510_11d8_9e67_00304828b574_5991; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21366344F80 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0448f69c_9510_11d8_9168_00304828b574_5988; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0CF967580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29B07580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0415329e_9510_11d8_8deb_00304828b574_5985; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F23344F82 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0366fd6e_9510_11d8_866c_00304828b574_5976; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 57D5C1A2A5; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CDFA81A242; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:21:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDF691A257; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 9srv.net (h-66-134-100-77.mclnva23.covad.net [66.134.100.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7BE61A242 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7436bb91b36cca81f0b3d9b63433d2c4@9srv.net> From: a@9srv.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:10:03 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i also like IL in theory (and much prefer it to tcp, certainly). but it's increasingly difficult to use. maintaining the code is the smallest part of this issue. most nat boxes will choke outright or drop the packets on the floor (actually, will any=20 pass IL?), and many ISPs won't deal well with IL, either. you just don't get real, unfiltered IP any more (at least reliably). it's also frustrating that IL never got outside Plan 9 and Inferno (and one now-defunct BSD project). it makes the cost/benefit ratio for working to get IL passed much less enticing if i can't, say, drawterm using it. of course, you could s/IL/9P/g in that last paragraph without affecting the truth value of the statement. =E3=82=A2 From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 21:53:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 20:25:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f59d4e3c_9518_11d8_81fb_00304828b574_30452; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BA834506B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f5440da4_9518_11d8_9f31_00304828b574_30449; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 45DD37580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89177580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f4d66f6a_9518_11d8_8b46_00304828b574_30443; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED4134506B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f3dd27de_9518_11d8_856c_00304828b574_30432; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:25:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 502841A26B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 495C91A160; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:25:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B784C19B82; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A3BA919DE9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6e381bee290111d465d893378f5d1fac@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nliiposnsqolvezhxluqntxatr" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:23:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nliiposnsqolvezhxluqntxatr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've seen problems, but as I say, I used it only on IDE disks. Although IMHO, some problems were due to locking and had to do with the network card. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the details. It may stay up for a year, I don't know; I'm just saying that the longer is the uptime, the more scared I get (because, IMHO, the sooner it's going to fail). Of course, I'm not saying that Ken's is not reliable. In fact, I consider fossil and venti reliable as well. --upas-nliiposnsqolvezhxluqntxatr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 23 11:09:28 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 917CA1A24D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 262121A160; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:09:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7D6791A24D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (cpu.collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 497111A23E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:08:41 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've never seen leaks nor degradation with Ken's fs and I only reboot it to change hardware, boot a new fs kernel, or move the machine. Ken's fs is just slower on IDE because the IDE code doesn't use DMA. --upas-nliiposnsqolvezhxluqntxatr-- From forsyth@vitanuova.com Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:14:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd7e744c_951f_11d8_93d7_00304828b574_5708; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04A7345133 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cd45ae00_951f_11d8_8035_00304828b574_5704; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A2CBA7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4521A7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ccf8b118_951f_11d8_935b_00304828b574_5698; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F47B345133 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cc51d9ba_951f_11d8_8a22_00304828b574_5692; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:14:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7AB3B1A0CF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EA18E1A093; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:14:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB7E11A09C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doppio.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 23FF919F52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c5d5e8ca7bce0dd7e0eba4cfde4f908@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: <6e381bee290111d465d893378f5d1fac@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:19:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>It may stay up for a year, I don't know; I'm just saying that >>the longer is the uptime, the more scared I get (because, >>IMHO, the sooner it's going to fail). Of course, I'm not i'm curious: if you have been well for a fairly long time do you take to your bed because you must surely be about to come down with something? From nemo@lsub.org Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:18:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5d18212a_9520_11d8_8272_00304828b574_8898; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9078345141 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ce6d37c_9520_11d8_8b24_00304828b574_8895; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9ABDB7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5643E7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5ca9158c_9520_11d8_8727_00304828b574_8892; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F267345141 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5c0173fe_9520_11d8_8477_00304828b574_8889; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:18:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3FD8F1A1AD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0133E1A0E8; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:18:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70DA61A0D1; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DC401A0BD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8b866dce9b314afd9eaf67a0a9da7459@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <9c5d5e8ca7bce0dd7e0eba4cfde4f908@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:17:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i'm curious: if you have been well for a fairly long time > do you take to your bed because you must surely be about to come > down with something? Nope. My body does that for me. My cells get dead and replaced by other ones, you know. I just can't do that with the computer, so I do it with the whole thing. From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:37:13 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f258a5b4_9522_11d8_9ebf_00304828b574_29287; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D3534437A for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f16d9056_9522_11d8_9c78_00304828b574_29160; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:12 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 223CF758109; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:10 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82A075810D for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec080678_9522_11d8_88f3_00304828b574_28576; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE54034452D for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:33:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 753ca3fa_9522_11d8_9fc1_00304828b574_24859; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D89651A0E3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A75061A0C5; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:33:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36E4919FA2; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3865A19F30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50f4693f12c8687ca54ab70c4c6d60f4@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: <8f86534e5595a20e23cdb43c26f66de6@hamnavoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:25:42 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >> il died years ago. > > Not quite dead yet, just very il. > > All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else > outside 11271 who still does this? We still use it. We're still running ken fs down here. Brantley From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:43:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d6aeeb1a_9523_11d8_9f60_00304828b574_1686; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3525F344C11 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d67a2010_9523_11d8_9abe_00304828b574_1683; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1E2847580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCE97580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d63fb420_9523_11d8_87a1_00304828b574_1680; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DF4344C22 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5982d22_9523_11d8_9a68_00304828b574_1665; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:43:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AF9E91A0CC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AFC261A0E3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:43:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 042321A111; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2008B1A091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2906846ac9f64a3c0b87ac712e63d125@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > on small devices i sometimes ditch tcp completely in favour of il and/or > other things. Back in 1996 we tried to use il over the Cisco internal network. Somewhere in the network some one was filtering out non-standard protocol packets. (I know that's broken.) What has been your experience in using il across public networks? I would like to use it in an application, maybe. From bwc@coraid.com Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:44:05 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e78be03c_9523_11d8_8b4f_00304828b574_2050; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2B2344C22 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e74c4ab2_9523_11d8_8610_00304828b574_2019; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4FA507580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058977580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e70cc3ec_9523_11d8_8f54_00304828b574_1995; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE01344C22 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e66384d0_9523_11d8_9dfe_00304828b574_1930; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:03 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EF5E1A243; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2B57C1A15A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:43:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B6E41A0E2; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 428991A091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:34:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I've never seen leaks nor degradation with Ken's fs and I only reboot > it to change hardware, boot a new fs kernel, or move the machine. > Ken's fs is just slower on IDE because the IDE code doesn't use DMA. A few month ago we replaces ramac our 20GB ken fs. It had run, rebooting only as a result of a power failure. It would run for many months at a time. We replaced it with the new IDE version. Works for us. From forsyth@terzarima.net Fri Apr 23 21:53:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 21:50:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d6bfade6_9524_11d8_9a91_00304828b574_7144; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F937344F48 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d666d73e_9524_11d8_801d_00304828b574_7141; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 76A967580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F897580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d5f0e6dc_9524_11d8_8a78_00304828b574_7138; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CE5344F48 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d4fb1c34_9524_11d8_8a42_00304828b574_7135; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 43DA61A239; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A7921A1F8; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:50:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E06221A0E3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 430541A0AD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <2906846ac9f64a3c0b87ac712e63d125@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iaesnznyitgvfughylxdervsbn" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:51:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iaesnznyitgvfughylxdervsbn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've had no trouble with that on the networks i use. my cable supplier gives me a full proper ipv4 connection. rj45 and off i go. i can see how some firewalls and some nat might get in the way depending on capability or configuration. --upas-iaesnznyitgvfughylxdervsbn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 23 13:42:37 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CDAE61A0D1; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 762021A0CC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:43:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 042321A111; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from edsac.borf.com (unknown [209.179.94.84]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2008B1A091 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2906846ac9f64a3c0b87ac712e63d125@borf.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Brantley Coile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:34 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > on small devices i sometimes ditch tcp completely in favour of il and/or > other things. Back in 1996 we tried to use il over the Cisco internal network. Somewhere in the network some one was filtering out non-standard protocol packets. (I know that's broken.) What has been your experience in using il across public networks? I would like to use it in an application, maybe. --upas-iaesnznyitgvfughylxdervsbn-- From Administrator@tristatecamera.com Sat Apr 24 09:06:54 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 22:01:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49a7e962_9526_11d8_976c_00304828b574_15618; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC5934517B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 497695ba_9526_11d8_8f66_00304828b574_15588; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id F3E357580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:07 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92187580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 493472fc_9526_11d8_882d_00304828b574_15578; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B278234517B for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48822caa_9526_11d8_9135_00304828b574_15496; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 93B7F1A212; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D351719F1D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:00:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 871FE19FDE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIL.TRISTATE.local (unknown [209.73.232.135]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2E18819B9C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL.TRISTATE.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:06:45 -0400 thread-index: AcQpM9QP6LOJMHbaTA+mGBerN5puEg== Thread-Topic: Symantec AVF detected an unrepairable virus in a message you sent From: To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Message-ID: <0d9a01c42933$d414a450$0302a8c0@TRISTATE.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Exchange 2000 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 13:06:45.0157 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4171550:01C42933] Subject: [9fans] Symantec AVF detected an unrepairable virus in a message you sent Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:06:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Subject of the message: Mail Delivery (failure service@tristatecamera.com) Recipient of the message: Customer Service From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 24 09:06:58 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 23:39:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13610448_9534_11d8_9121_00304828b574_5299; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D2B345238 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 132bebc8_9534_11d8_8ec3_00304828b574_5296; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DE3EA7580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9591F7580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12f1b7a0_9534_11d8_9616_00304828b574_5293; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB29345238 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1248dc3e_9534_11d8_8f60_00304828b574_5290; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:39:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E66319AFC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F0A319B11; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:39:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E80019AEF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE02519AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcEik018925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:14 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcE31012074 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:14 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcDwO008268 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:13 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > Our file system runs mostly unattended. I admit a cron reboots it > once a week, but that's for safety :-) that's ok but not near good enough. I know lotsa people dislike linux but fact is 2-3 year uptimes are normal and boring nowadays, also true for BSD (in fact BSD usually still does a bit better, 2-3 year uptime was boring 8 years ago). Fossil is quite neat but needs the hardening steps. I'm well aware that nobody has the time but we ought to be aware of what is possible. ron From nemo@lsub.org Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 23 23:44:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c6a92efe_9534_11d8_8c7e_00304828b574_9171; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B89345247 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c644d030_9534_11d8_8fc3_00304828b574_9168; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 625D87580FA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D697580F9 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c5d8211a_9534_11d8_8fd9_00304828b574_9165; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44117345247 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4d7d706_9534_11d8_9400_00304828b574_9162; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:44:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6E54819B11; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1AF6D19B06; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:44:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C91C519AF2; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1821019AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <059646be5f60c46e7434a05892f59e64@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xgwnsbpagslpyvlmtgosqlxbwp" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:42:49 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xgwnsbpagslpyvlmtgosqlxbwp Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We gather stats nightly and try to find out leaks and the like. Of course, we all like our file system to be solid as a rock (Ken was mostly there--modulo the bugs we suffered). I, mostly, agree with you. --upas-xgwnsbpagslpyvlmtgosqlxbwp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Fri Apr 23 16:39:39 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF0A019B97; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 834AF19AFC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:39:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0E80019AEF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE02519AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcEik018925 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:14 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcE31012074 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:14 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NEcDwO008268 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:13 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet In-Reply-To: <30aff52398d26ce05f79da73b86be92e@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:38:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote: > Our file system runs mostly unattended. I admit a cron reboots it > once a week, but that's for safety :-) that's ok but not near good enough. I know lotsa people dislike linux but fact is 2-3 year uptimes are normal and boring nowadays, also true for BSD (in fact BSD usually still does a bit better, 2-3 year uptime was boring 8 years ago). Fossil is quite neat but needs the hardening steps. I'm well aware that nobody has the time but we ought to be aware of what is possible. ron --upas-xgwnsbpagslpyvlmtgosqlxbwp-- From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:07:26 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee766c0a_9537_11d8_9d36_00304828b574_632; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BE234425E for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee45675e_9537_11d8_9738_00304828b574_629; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6276D7580FD; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D586758108 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb794752_9537_11d8_839c_00304828b574_588; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:07:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1850C34425E for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:52:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e23e0cce_9535_11d8_821a_00304828b574_15867; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:52:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C8C119B0F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E3B3819AE7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:52:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8ABD819AE7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2687819AFC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4e468b4487cf2075836d20b6564e3c4d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <00de823c52c54e81247cc4cccb1d1227@collyer.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:34:17 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > What do you think would happen if you didn't reboot once a week? i leave my fossil/venti fs untouched unless there's a need to update the kernel -- i simply dislike rebooting as an event, unless it's a terminal, in which case i only care if it happens without warning. i regurarly run uptimes of a month, and now that fossil has been stable for a while i expect those to increase. generally there are no trivially observable leaks in fossil. the memory footprint has stayed the same, in the hundreds of kilobytes, in the past 24 days since the last reboot. overall memory usage does increase, but that's mostly from programs that refuse to die after you delete their windows. of course i'm nowhere near the unattendancy of a ken fs. just checked dan cross' cpu server -- it's been up for: brahma up 186 days, 22:17:03 andrey From nemo@lsub.org Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:09:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e4d5f04_9538_11d8_94ce_00304828b574_3121; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC8F34430C for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e084b3a_9538_11d8_86b7_00304828b574_3116; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2C24F7580FF; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:33 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94A0758111 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 347ef820_9538_11d8_8452_00304828b574_2967; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4EE3441D5 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:01:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 217df3da_9537_11d8_967d_00304828b574_25915; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:01:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6C67119CF3; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7538519B2F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2DA5A19B2F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22E13199CF for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9ab732f7e50df0ffaa13950a680124b3@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] file system stability Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:00:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The good thing of the worm is that it's mostly static. Most things are allocated at start time and from there on it just services requests. Our current file system server, on the other hand, runs code where most things are dynamic. This is a big difference on robustness. It could be made as robust as we want to, however it would require a lot more effort than doing so in a system that does not use so many dynamic resources. From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:09:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 401a1ef8_9538_11d8_815a_00304828b574_3155; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CA134431C for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fe216a2_9538_11d8_976a_00304828b574_3145; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 51F477580FC; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FB5758100 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37904c08_9538_11d8_83b2_00304828b574_3035; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:09:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352B6344471 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 90a89292_9537_11d8_9c2c_00304828b574_29432; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A97F19DCC; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADBFA19D43; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5A30C19C43; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2BBE19B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NF3sik027716 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:03:54 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NF3sp9014534 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:03:54 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NF3swO009414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:03:54 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <20040422173022.GA28499@lst.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:03:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > That beeing said I'm the last one to defend glibc's bloat, but in a > system where you can't easily rebuild all binaries for whatever > reason shared libraries and symbol versioning makes a lot of sense. No, it doesn't help much at all. Let's take program 'a', which depends on stat. In the new order of gcc, when built, 'a' will depend on stat from glib 2.0. A new stat comes along with fixes. It gets built into glibc 2.1. You install glibc 2.1. Program 'a', unless I rebuild or replace it, will be using the old stat. Of course, I might think that the shared library has fixed all binaries using stat, and I'm wrong -- or am I right? Is the V1 stat just a wrapper? who knows? And do you cover all the cases? And maybe it isn't calling stat and I don't know it. Maybe it's calling one of these: 000c888c t __GI___fxstat 000c90cc t __GI___fxstat64 000c90cc t ___fxstat64 000c888c T __fxstat 000c90cc T __fxstat64@@GLIBC_2.2 000c90cc T__fxstat64@GLIBC_2.1 000c90cc t __old__fxstat64 000c888c t _fxstat I've found programs that call all these variants, because the functions they call call different library functions. It's quite interesting to see. Which one is 'a' calling? Oh yeah, you can max out the ld.so debug options, because of course weak symbols come into this game too, and you're not really sure unless you watch this: 19595: binding file /lib/libpthread.so.0 to /lib/libc.so.6: normal symbol `getrlimit' [GLIBC_2.2] 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=date 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/libpthread.so.0 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/librt.so.1 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/libc.so.6 yup, several hundred lines of this stuff, for 'date'. Of course it's kind of interesting: Posix threads are used by 'date'. I had no idea that printing a date could be so complex. Maybe that's why it's 40k -- bigger than some OSes. The symbol versioning breaks assumptions users have about how shared libaries work -- that they provide a link to one version of a function and if you replace the library all the programs get fixed. I've seen this problem in practice, for both naive users and very non-naive sysadmins. The symbol versioning wires programs to something beyond a library version, in a way that is not obvious to most people. To fix a binary that uses a library, you have to replace the binary, not just the library, or you can not be sure anything gets fixed. That said, if you can't rebuild all the binaries, well then you're stuck, and have no idea if your new shared library is going to fix anything at all for some of those binaries. Some will stay broken, since replacing the library did not necessarily replace broken functions -- the new library has them too, for backwards compatibility. So the upgrade is not an upgrade. This is a feature? ron From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:12:35 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a65d690e_9538_11d8_859d_00304828b574_5563; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949423443C2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a62c40ea_9538_11d8_9d79_00304828b574_5560; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 742E87580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3897580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a5eb1106_9538_11d8_9a0d_00304828b574_5557; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446363443C2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a542e31e_9538_11d8_9921_00304828b574_5554; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:12:33 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B86F19DE4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4086619DD4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10DC219DA6; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca (unknown [136.159.220.110]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8B69D19B97 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87c6015b9187b39da61f83ed1d0f965d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:47:18 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Fossil is quite neat but needs the hardening steps. I'm well aware that > nobody has the time but we ought to be aware of what is possible. fossil needs to be rewritten in limbo :) *ducks* From hch@lst.de Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:31:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 446803dc_953b_11d8_8a5f_00304828b574_20072; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C5D345287 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4435d7fe_953b_11d8_93a8_00304828b574_20069; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9B4B27580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:18 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411A07580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43ecf048_953b_11d8_9696_00304828b574_20066; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196B8345288 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 431cd304_953b_11d8_8958_00304828b574_20058; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C4E0D19ED0; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B38A019D7E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D8D8C19D37; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omx1.americas.sgi.com (cfcafw.sgi.com [198.149.23.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F10BF19D8A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flecktone.americas.sgi.com (flecktone.americas.sgi.com [192.48.203.135]) by omx1.americas.sgi.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/linux-outbound_gateway-1.1) with ESMTP id i3NFToBN010084 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:29:50 -0500 Received: from maine.americas.sgi.com (maine.americas.sgi.com [128.162.232.87]) by flecktone.americas.sgi.com (8.12.9/8.12.10/SGI_generic_relay-1.2) with ESMTP id i3NFTnKe37466893 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:29:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hch by maine.americas.sgi.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BH2cf-0006C1-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:29:49 -0500 From: Christoph Hellwig To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Message-ID: <20040423152948.GA23473@lst.de> References: <20040422173022.GA28499@lst.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:29:48 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Let's take program 'a', which depends on stat. In the new order of gcc, > when built, 'a' will depend on stat from glib 2.0. A new stat comes along > with fixes. It gets built into glibc 2.1. You install glibc 2.1. Program > 'a', unless I rebuild or replace it, will be using the old stat. Of > course, I might think that the shared library has fixed all binaries using > stat, and I'm wrong -- or am I right? Is the V1 stat just a wrapper? who > knows? And do you cover all the cases? Stop here. You don't get a new symbol version just because your new version ends up in a new glibc. so unless your fix changes the interface to stat it will retain it's old symbol version. Bumping the symbol version is an explicit action of the program author. And because of the maintaince issue they rewrite the old version as a wrapper around the new one in every case I've seen so far. If this wasn't the case _and_ the author wouldn't update the version that would be considered a huge bug indeed. But that's not what happens in real life. I've looked for an example that shows this without too much code and while we're at it shows some glibc braindamage (messing up kernel syscalls when translating them to library calls), and that would be the sched_getaffinity call, implemented in sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/sched_getaffinity.c. We have a routine called __sched_getaffinity_new implementing a small wrapper for the sched_getaffinity syscalls. With versioned_symbol (libc, __sched_getaffinity_new, sched_getaffinity, GLIBC_2_3_4); it's exported as sched_getaffinity for the symbol version GLIBC_2_3_4. Then int attribute_compat_text_section __sched_getaffinity_old (pid_t pid, cpu_set_t *cpuset) { /* The old interface by default assumed a 1024 processor bitmap. */ return __sched_getaffinity_new (pid, 128, cpuset); } compat_symbol (libc, __sched_getaffinity_old, sched_getaffinity, GLIBC_2_3_3); implements the older version ontop of the new one. From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 00:55:55 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b483fc86_953e_11d8_8250_00304828b574_6463; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F640345306 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4522940_953e_11d8_8874_00304828b574_6460; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 367E57580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0567580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b41038fa_953e_11d8_89c9_00304828b574_6457; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F6A345306 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b34131d6_953e_11d8_8fe3_00304828b574_6454; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:55:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C44CE19ECD; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1921E19B97; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:55:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EF9C119D8C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B36019D2B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay3.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NFsnik007404 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:54:49 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay3.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NFsnQ8007765 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:54:49 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NFsnwO011363 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:54:49 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <20040423152948.GA23473@lst.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:54:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > Let's take program 'a', which depends on stat. In the new order of gcc, > > when built, 'a' will depend on stat from glib 2.0. A new stat comes along > > with fixes. It gets built into glibc 2.1. You install glibc 2.1. Program > > 'a', unless I rebuild or replace it, will be using the old stat. Of > > course, I might think that the shared library has fixed all binaries using > > stat, and I'm wrong -- or am I right? Is the V1 stat just a wrapper? who > > knows? And do you cover all the cases? > > Stop here. You don't get a new symbol version just because your new > version ends up in a new glibc. so unless your fix changes the > interface to stat it will retain it's old symbol version. Bumping the > symbol version is an explicit action of the program author. And because > of the maintaince issue they rewrite the old version as a wrapper around > the new one in every case I've seen so far. If this wasn't the case > _and_ the author wouldn't update the version that would be considered a > huge bug indeed. But that's not what happens in real life. > > I've looked for an example that shows this without too much code and > while we're at it shows some glibc braindamage (messing up kernel > syscalls when translating them to library calls), and that would be the > sched_getaffinity call, implemented in > sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/sched_getaffinity.c. > > We have a routine called __sched_getaffinity_new implementing a small > wrapper for the sched_getaffinity syscalls. With > > versioned_symbol (libc, __sched_getaffinity_new, sched_getaffinity, > GLIBC_2_3_4); > > it's exported as sched_getaffinity for the symbol version GLIBC_2_3_4. > > Then > > int > attribute_compat_text_section > __sched_getaffinity_old (pid_t pid, cpu_set_t *cpuset) > { > /* The old interface by default assumed a 1024 processor bitmap. */ > return __sched_getaffinity_new (pid, 128, cpuset); > } > compat_symbol (libc, __sched_getaffinity_old, sched_getaffinity, GLIBC_2_3_3); > > implements the older version ontop of the new one. > Well, here are details I was reluctant to put into email due to my sensitive nature. But take this one comment: >And because of the maintaince issue they rewrite the old version as a >wrapper around the new one in every case I've seen so far. I think you're assuming a lot now and into the future. But I'll take your word for it. I think unless I'm wrong that you've actually demonstrated the problem I'm trying to show -- an old binary, using a broken interface, doesn't get fixed just because you update the library. What happens is that the old binary retains the broken interface. This is not what people think of with shared libraries -- they naively think you upgrade the library and good things happen, bugs are fixed, angels sing. glibc retains old broken interfaces as time moves forward -- is this really a good idea? In other words, shared libraries certainly solve a problem, but I'm not sure any more which one it is. ron From 9nut@9netics.com Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:03:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca48b4f2_953f_11d8_9876_00304828b574_13297; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFF5345317 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca115fac_953f_11d8_92bc_00304828b574_13294; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2C6ED7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ED87580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9d0dbbc_953f_11d8_88cd_00304828b574_13291; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C37345317 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c929c89a_953f_11d8_882d_00304828b574_13288; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5993019EFA; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B8CBA19ADE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:03:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 736B519ED4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D712319ADE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <50f4693f12c8687ca54ab70c4c6d60f4@borf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:02:45 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>> il died years ago. >> >> Not quite dead yet, just very il. >> >> All my local machines are linked with il - is there really nobody else >> outside 11271 who still does this? > > We still use it. We're still running ken fs down here. Same here. As far as reliability, ken fs outperforms Puget Power, our local power company. "The news of my death has been greatly exaggerated" -- Mark Twain From salomo3@cooper.edu Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:34:06 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09a848ac_9544_11d8_9760_00304828b574_10452; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9253442C8 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 094d40c4_9544_11d8_8371_00304828b574_10421; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:05 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4313B7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85E37580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 090ab3da_9544_11d8_8d8c_00304828b574_10382; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15673442C8 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0859ca5c_9544_11d8_8aff_00304828b574_10268; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:04 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4802F19D3E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 10AB619B7A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:33:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFF2C19E01; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (wish.cooper.edu [199.98.16.74]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 03ED419D8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 09395393C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 637663937 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3069.199.98.17.55.1082737250.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <20040423152948.GA23473@lst.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports From: "Joel Salomon" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:20:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ron minnich said: > I think unless I'm wrong that you've actually demonstrated the problem = I'm > trying to show -- an old binary, using a broken interface, doesn't get > fixed just because you update the library. What happens is that the old > binary retains the broken interface. This is not what people think of w= ith > shared libraries -- they naively think you upgrade the library and good > things happen, bugs are fixed, angels sing. glibc retains old broken > interfaces as time moves forward -- is this really a good idea? > Is it a broken interface or implementation that's getting fixed? What I'm understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that so long as the function definition is compatible (the same?) the interface stays the same. E.g. void print_msg(void) {printf("hello wrold\n");} can be replaced in a newer version of the library by: void print_msg(void) {printf("hello world\n");} without changing the interface, but not with: void print_msg(char *mgs) {printf(msg);} If it's an interface that's being changed, your program needs a source code update to use the new function, and versioning can keep the old interface available. (And fix the spelling, too...) Have I completely misunderstood the problem? --Joel From 9nut@9netics.com Sat Apr 24 09:06:59 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:34:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1dfcc1ac_9544_11d8_9483_00304828b574_10946; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72143442FC for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1dc93ecc_9544_11d8_9fca_00304828b574_10943; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A3F127580FB; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5127580FA for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d90cd30_9544_11d8_94e4_00304828b574_10940; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F5C3442FC for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1ce8070e_9544_11d8_9741_00304828b574_10934; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6B63919B7A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F06E819DF2; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:34:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E5EE19D8C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8E62519DCC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <4e468b4487cf2075836d20b6564e3c4d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:33:04 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > of course i'm nowhere near the unattendancy of a ken fs. just checked > dan cross' cpu server -- it's been up for: > > brahma up 186 days, 22:17:03 Where's Dan anyhow? Have not seen a post from him for a while. From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:36:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 64c21fec_9544_11d8_897a_00304828b574_12575; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FE8344385 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6490fd22_9544_11d8_9a86_00304828b574_12572; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5C64F7580FB; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BD47580FA for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6450770c_9544_11d8_8dab_00304828b574_12569; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274FE344385 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 63a60f92_9544_11d8_986f_00304828b574_12566; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:36:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E8B3219F08; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2237A19EE5; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:36:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DC25219EEF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A98F19EDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:35:33 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:35:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAghnbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040423T093532Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] Alpha To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 16:35:33.0614 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFA1E8E0:01C42950] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:35:32 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>> Geoff Collyer 4/23/2004 1:56:29 AM >>> >My alpha seems to be broken.=20 What is "broken"? Hardware, or the software doesn't work correctly? >There didn't seem to be much advantage to Plan 9 on the Alpha aside >from floating point speed and a non-x86 CPU. That's plenty good enough for me!! From hch@sgi.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:48:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 194c56a2_9546_11d8_938d_00304828b574_21820; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DFB344E89 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1919ff04_9546_11d8_81b5_00304828b574_21817; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B89E47580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B117580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 18d2a0b4_9546_11d8_82d2_00304828b574_21814; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77DAB344E89 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 182642b0_9546_11d8_9a0c_00304828b574_21811; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFC9119F04; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C583419EEF; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:48:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8D0C219F00; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omx1.americas.sgi.com (cfcafw.sgi.com [198.149.23.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2943D19EF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flecktone.americas.sgi.com (flecktone.americas.sgi.com [192.48.203.135]) by omx1.americas.sgi.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/linux-outbound_gateway-1.1) with ESMTP id i3NGlpBN011742 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:47:51 -0500 Received: from maine.americas.sgi.com (maine.americas.sgi.com [128.162.232.87]) by flecktone.americas.sgi.com (8.12.9/8.12.10/SGI_generic_relay-1.2) with ESMTP id i3NGlpKe37492138 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:47:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hch by maine.americas.sgi.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BH3qB-0006cR-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:47:51 -0500 From: Christoph Hellwig To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Message-ID: <20040423164750.GB23473@lst.de> References: <20040423152948.GA23473@lst.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:47:50 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 03:56:03PM +0000, ron minnich wrote: > I think unless I'm wrong that you've actually demonstrated the problem I'm > trying to show -- an old binary, using a broken interface, doesn't get > fixed just because you update the library. What happens is that the old > binary retains the broken interface. This is not what people think of with > shared libraries -- they naively think you upgrade the library and good > things happen, bugs are fixed, angels sing. glibc retains old broken > interfaces as time moves forward -- is this really a good idea? I think this depends on your defintion of broken. E.g. if FILE grows to support $RANDOM new feature is the old interface broken because of that? If I had a third party program on my system that I don't have sources for I'd be more than happy to keep that supported, yes. I think I understand your point, but it looks more like a thoeretical issue than something that comes up in practice. Yes, symbol versioning does allow you to keep the old version around, as do weak symbols if you overrode it in your program, etc.. The thing is that the way it's used in practice works different. > In other words, shared libraries certainly solve a problem, but I'm not > sure any more which one it is. They still allow you to fix problems in a central place. Just because you might have two versions of the same symbol that doesn't mean you're magically unable to fix them. From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:49:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 37a75692_9546_11d8_841a_00304828b574_22571; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24FE344FF0 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3772812e_9546_11d8_953d_00304828b574_22568; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id AD9B07580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662CC7580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3738e28e_9546_11d8_8120_00304828b574_22565; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E740344FF0 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3686e11a_9546_11d8_9008_00304828b574_22562; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:49:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F350A19F15; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90CE319F03; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:49:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 745C619EF6; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id BB90A19DF2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so3707cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.71 with SMTP id u71mr1279cwc; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:48:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Actually the feature I immediately found myself missing (after building > plan9port and running acme) is wily's Dotfiles command that toggles > whether or not dot files are displayed in directories. Unfortunately, in > my typical unix home directory there are about twice as many dot files as > regular files. Is there some way that I'm missing in acme to hide files > whose names start with dot? Yes, it's called Dotfiles. I feel bad about having done it, but otherwise my home directory is twice as big and has very long names in it. As Forsyth says, it's only relevant on Unix. > I'm so psyched about having real acme in linux, I'm considering tackling > two enhancements: > > (1) Using an XWindows resource to specify the size of the acme window. What do you mean by an XWindows resource? Is this different from a command-line option? (Sorry, I know very little about X even now.) Clearly we need some uniform way to specify window sizes for new windows. One option is to put a '-g' into every gui problem to specify geometry. Another option, which requires no changes to the gui programs themselves, is to have initdraw look in the environment for a $windowsize and respect that. Then the Plan 9 window script is just "windowsize=$1; shift; exec $*". > (2) Providing a command-line parameter or XWindows resource to specify > swapping scrolling direction of mouse buttons 1 and 3 (to make it the same > as all the other programs I use). This isn't emacs, you know. ;-) Russ From robpike@gmail.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 01:58:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d2b6e5a_9547_11d8_8021_00304828b574_29262; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E651E345346 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7cf9fe10_9547_11d8_83c5_00304828b574_29259; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C4CBA7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD0B7580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7cb8a974_9547_11d8_95a3_00304828b574_29256; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D4B345346 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7c0fdcfe_9547_11d8_9b1a_00304828b574_29253; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BF69119F09; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB3B919E68; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F47419E68; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.244]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 565DF19EF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so5708cwc for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.120.76 with SMTP id s76mr1174cwc; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6B14E6E1.242CAE2D@mail.gmail.com> From: Rob Pike To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <76d1808cb580433f7c0b487a0ed78037@plan9.ucalgary.ca>, <200404201914.i3KJEbj05929@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> <200404231010.i3NAA1w10892@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:43 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Let's try this - Dotfiles toggles listing of .* in directory listings. > > [...] i don't understand this change. it fixes up only one directory in your whole world: $HOME. why hack acme for one directory? instead, i'd write a trivial shell script called dotfiles or whatever you want to call it that just fixes up the display of the directory in which it's executed. either that or have a file in $HOME that contains the Edit command to fix it up. open that and run. but to change the source of the editor for this??? -rob From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:04:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54f13996_9548_11d8_9811_00304828b574_1987; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC3E345377 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 54ba1740_9548_11d8_8c14_00304828b574_1984; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C8DC97580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B847580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 53eb0860_9548_11d8_856d_00304828b574_1981; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AF9345377 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 533f0830_9548_11d8_97bf_00304828b574_1978; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:04:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A99E519F0D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 306EA19F04; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:04:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 200D419F04; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E05E419EF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH3Eik024769 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:14 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH3Ep9005752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:14 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH3CwO014005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:12 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <3069.199.98.17.55.1082737250.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:03:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Joel Salomon wrote: > Is it a broken interface or implementation that's getting fixed? What I'm > understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that so long as the > function definition is compatible (the same?) the interface stays the > same. Well I'm now convinced that this is all very confusing. > If it's an interface that's being changed, your program needs a source > code update to use the new function, and versioning can keep the old > interface available. (And fix the spelling, too...) I was really responding to the point made by the SGI poster (sorry I forgot your name) that you can retain old version functions in the library in the case that you can't update binaries. This strikes me as a problem, since people will think "new library! problem fixed!" and not realize that in fact for some subset of the binaries the problem remains -- since the new library provides the old broken function in some cases. Anyway, the thread has worn me out so I'm done :-) ron From rminnich@lanl.gov Sat Apr 24 09:07:00 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:05:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76792164_9548_11d8_964e_00304828b574_2792; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AAAA34537B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76430a16_9548_11d8_93e6_00304828b574_2789; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 17C6C7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18447580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7608b3f2_9548_11d8_8a73_00304828b574_2786; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C806734537B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75559678_9548_11d8_8924_00304828b574_2783; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EAC8719F0E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BBD3219F04; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:05:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B358019F15; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 30A0719EF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH4Zik025073 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:35 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH4Yp9006686 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3NH4YwO014047 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:34 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports In-Reply-To: <20040423164750.GB23473@lst.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > I think I understand your point, but it looks more like a thoeretical > issue than something that comes up in practice. Yes, symbol versioning > does allow you to keep the old version around, as do weak symbols if you > overrode it in your program, etc.. The thing is that the way it's used > in practice works different. not according to the poster from SGI, unless I missed his point, and who knows? Maybe I did. ron From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:18:10 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31904468_954a_11d8_9b64_00304828b574_12541; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE133453A7 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 315d8ad2_954a_11d8_930d_00304828b574_12511; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6F47E7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275507580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 311da99e_954a_11d8_8deb_00304828b574_12480; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372383453A7 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3070663a_954a_11d8_87f7_00304828b574_12408; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:18:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D1CB419F0C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BDB5119E96; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:17:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CAE8B19E96; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5B3BE19ED4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 363A637CE4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:16:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <029901c42956$4cad7960$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <2906846ac9f64a3c0b87ac712e63d125@borf.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:13:28 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > What has been your experience in using il across > public networks? that's the real question. From mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:21:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b51de506_954a_11d8_8385_00304828b574_15612; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329B13442FD for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b4dec772_954a_11d8_965d_00304828b574_15609; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0DAE87580F9; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964487580FB for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b484678c_954a_11d8_92f6_00304828b574_15606; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679B93442FD for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b3b02102_954a_11d8_9f08_00304828b574_15600; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 25B9119F15; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CB33119EFE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B686919ED4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9-2.ucalgary.ca (fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.7.68]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 942BD19E96 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <969120f4722fd9bdd363136c895b96e8@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:20:45 -0600 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > What do you mean by an XWindows resource? > Is this different from a command-line option? > (Sorry, I know very little about X even now.) basically X resources allow you to circumvent having to supply an argument for each little thing you want to execute. for example, to let xterm understand utf8 you can either exec xterm -u8 every time or set: xterm*utf8: 1 in .Xresource... here's mine (! is a comment) mirtchov@localrob$ cat .Xresource !big scrollback xterm*SaveLines: 5000 !unicode xterm*utf8: 1 !a reasonably reasonable font xterm*font: *-lucidatypewriter-medium-*-12-*-75-* 9term*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1 !close a session when connected from somewhere else vnc*shareOption: false mirtchov@localrob$ of course you need to merge .Xresource with the rest on startup: mirtchov@localrob$ cat .xinitrc xrdb -m ~/.Xresource plumber exec /usr/local/plan9/bin/rio ... From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:31:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 082dc454_954c_11d8_87db_00304828b574_23136; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 238BA3453C2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07fbe1d2_954c_11d8_92b8_00304828b574_23133; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 04DA97580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3457580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07ba83ea_954c_11d8_8dd6_00304828b574_23130; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55C43453C2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07113966_954c_11d8_91f9_00304828b574_23127; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:31:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA20C19F2F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 753D219F0C; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 94C9619F0E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8F4BD19F04 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A70C37CE8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:29:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02e801c42958$23abd0a0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <4e468b4487cf2075836d20b6564e3c4d@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:26:40 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > of course i'm nowhere near the unattendancy of a ken fs. just checked > dan cross' cpu server -- it's been up for: > > brahma up 186 days, 22:17:03 brahma is unattended 'cos dan is in the Corps, somewhere. From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:43:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ba25e7c6_954d_11d8_9047_00304828b574_1713; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC4234440A for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9690ba6_954d_11d8_8785_00304828b574_1705; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1D1BB7580F9; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE86F7580FF for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b9218204_954d_11d8_83d9_00304828b574_1700; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F3834444E for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 369f5e0a_954d_11d8_816a_00304828b574_30050; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:39:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 908B819F38; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E19B919F1D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:39:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3E8D19F1D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7911A19F0E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so3855cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.17 with SMTP id x17mr1804cwb; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <969120f4722fd9bdd363136c895b96e8@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:38:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > basically X resources allow you to circumvent having to supply an > argument for each little thing you want to execute. for example, to > let xterm understand utf8 you can either exec xterm -u8 every time or > set: i'm always sorry i asked. thanks. russ From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:47:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d9f863e_954e_11d8_9ba5_00304828b574_5674; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED9434415B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d6a3344_954e_11d8_8caf_00304828b574_5638; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5EADD758103; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:06 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074477580FF for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3b2cfcb0_954e_11d8_9499_00304828b574_5403; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:47:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F6434415B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:41:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77655c8c_954d_11d8_8bbf_00304828b574_32071; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:41:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5C7E19D60; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 224ED19E3E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:41:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3DE619EDE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EF77219C1C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AB80337CE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:40:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <033001c42959$ab9344c0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:37:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Where's Dan anyhow? Have not seen a post from him for a while. don't know. i sent a postcard, sealed in a reasonably tamper proof envelope, to parris island but it got returned. he didn't give me his unit # etc so i guess they just bounced it, complete with an impressive set of stamps. i've poked around in /adm/users on brahma to see if there was anyone in there who looked like they might know, but didn't find anything like. the other choice was to spam /adm/users which didn't seem like a plan. he's somewhere in the Corps. i asked some other .mil people i know and they couldn't really help either. i hope he's ok. From boyd@insultant.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:49:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1be28dc_954e_11d8_9032_00304828b574_8459; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BA63441B2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a18435e6_954e_11d8_98e6_00304828b574_8454; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8BE7A758103; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B604D758105 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f251e00_954e_11d8_9eef_00304828b574_8427; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:49:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBF53441B2 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c133ed38_954d_11d8_8a92_00304828b574_1768; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:43:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A5A2319F46; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3A5B919EF7; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:43:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 757DB19F2E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EB5F19EDE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 220E837CEB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:41:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <033901c42959$df074400$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <969120f4722fd9bdd363136c895b96e8@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:39:03 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > basically X resources allow you to circumvent having to supply an > argument for each little thing you want to execute. i reckon it's _really there_ so that you waste weeks to months tweaking the whole mess ;) From hch@lst.de Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 02:54:22 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 40a86016_954f_11d8_88ec_00304828b574_13910; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E863442DB for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4051c8e6_954f_11d8_8bc7_00304828b574_13907; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B63FD7580F9; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:21 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1437580FF for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f87ce06_954f_11d8_8e04_00304828b574_13897; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:54:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89903444AE for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:53:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2c4b7bd0_954f_11d8_9d61_00304828b574_12944; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:53:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D719E19F4B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89F8519F38; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:53:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0EA6819F2F; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omx1.americas.sgi.com (cfcafw.sgi.com [198.149.23.1]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD72619F0C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flecktone.americas.sgi.com (flecktone.americas.sgi.com [192.48.203.135]) by omx1.americas.sgi.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/linux-outbound_gateway-1.1) with ESMTP id i3NHqtBN006402 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:52:55 -0500 Received: from maine.americas.sgi.com (maine.americas.sgi.com [128.162.232.87]) by flecktone.americas.sgi.com (8.12.9/8.12.10/SGI_generic_relay-1.2) with ESMTP id i3NHqtKe37493296 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:52:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hch by maine.americas.sgi.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BH4r8-00071U-00 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:52:54 -0500 From: Christoph Hellwig To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Message-ID: <20040423175253.GA26237@lst.de> References: <20040423164750.GB23473@lst.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:52:53 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 05:05:47PM +0000, ron minnich wrote: > On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > > I think I understand your point, but it looks more like a thoeretical > > issue than something that comes up in practice. Yes, symbol versioning > > does allow you to keep the old version around, as do weak symbols if you > > overrode it in your program, etc.. The thing is that the way it's used > > in practice works different. > > not according to the poster from SGI, unless I missed his point, and who > knows? Maybe I did. That was me I guess :) And I think you missed the point - old interfaces stay in the library, not old implementations. From rog@vitanuova.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 04:17:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e37ec504_955a_11d8_8b7f_00304828b574_18483; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1323441FC for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3368a5a_955a_11d8_8fdc_00304828b574_18479; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 040BE75810E; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C139D758109 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id def90800_955a_11d8_8f7b_00304828b574_18407; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:17:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5265534453D for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:10:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed2f0b50_9559_11d8_8e43_00304828b574_10717; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:10:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AFEAA19F3E; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 382CC19F0D; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:10:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30DB219F07; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4722319F0D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:15:45 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > There already seems to be some movement towards this naming convention, > eg in upasfs(4): > > Fs interprets mailbox file names of the form > /proto/host/user to mean access an account on host using the > given protocol. i'm not too keen on this kind of thing, in addition to the reasons quoted by geoff, because such a directory structure is inherently unenumerable. moreover it's not very clear how long the connection to the remote machine should stay valid. do you guess, and have a timeout cache? do you make the connection close down when the last reference goes away (which you might not want either)? what if i want "host" to be "/net.alt/tcp!somehost.com"? this was the kind of thing that might be solved reasonably elegantly, i think, by that "idea" i mentioned in a previous post. (which i kind of expected a little discussion on, but there y'go) From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 24 09:07:01 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 04:38:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d0a80276_955d_11d8_90d9_00304828b574_2012; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAF734458A for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d071e1e6_955d_11d8_9889_00304828b574_2008; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BF0C07580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786817580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d03297e8_955d_11d8_9c9a_00304828b574_2003; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC4034458A for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cf88cf9c_955d_11d8_90e5_00304828b574_2000; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:38:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6141F19F57; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 79BF219DF5; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:38:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3AD919EC4; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.246]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 9D47819A9B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so4161cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr2916cwb; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:37:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > There already seems to be some movement towards this naming convention, > > eg in upasfs(4): > > > > Fs interprets mailbox file names of the form > > /proto/host/user to mean access an account on host using the > > given protocol. > > i'm not too keen on this kind of thing, in addition to the reasons > quoted by geoff, because such a directory structure is inherently > unenumerable. the upas/fs hack was never intended to stand as an example of the way things ought to be done. it solved the problem of naming remote mailboxes and it has served well, but as geoff pointed out, it is very much not a good idea in general. it's not even a good idea in this case (as rog points out) but it does happen to get the job done some useful fraction of the time. From geoff@collyer.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 07:24:12 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2657710_9574_11d8_9ce2_00304828b574_12120; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50DD344734 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f22f220a_9574_11d8_8d0c_00304828b574_12113; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D1E5F7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B19A7580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f1f62ad6_9574_11d8_9559_00304828b574_12080; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCF9344734 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f14c97a0_9574_11d8_96af_00304828b574_11975; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2821119A8A; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C7C019A71; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:23:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ACE6619EDE; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47F1819E68 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7fc800a45c5e1f8d28fbf9541ad7874a@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Alpha From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <20040423T093532Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:22:13 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: The hardware seems to be broken. One day it suddenly stopped getting 2114x (ethernet) interrupts. My initial attempt at diagnosis suggests that it's not getting interrupts from PCI devices. We're moving into a house with grounded electrical outlets on May 1st (after three years without grounds) and I'll revisit this and other hardware issues then. Agreed that it's pleasant to not have an x86 cpu. From geoff@collyer.net Sat Apr 24 09:07:02 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 07:34:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a7e5cde_9576_11d8_88a5_00304828b574_19836; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB732344767 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a4e264a_9576_11d8_9cca_00304828b574_19832; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CDC327580FB; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863D17580FA for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a0edd82_9576_11d8_9410_00304828b574_19828; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956B7344767 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 69613c5e_9576_11d8_86bf_00304828b574_19825; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ADE0B19E68; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD9F719A71; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:34:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A6D4819A81; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (nolifeandliberty.com [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3CD8E19A67 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9235182959647c6e826917d90ca90966@collyer.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:33:56 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I am intrigued by your (rog's) idea. I've just been very busy of late. From russcox@gmail.com Sat Apr 24 22:09:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sat Apr 24 14:04:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e4443d78_95ac_11d8_8277_00304828b574_1791; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0BF344A18 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e40e1d4c_95ac_11d8_8d67_00304828b574_1788; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EC72B7580FA; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A457C7580F9 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e3d48be0_95ac_11d8_9b3c_00304828b574_1785; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C499B344A18 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e333905a_95ac_11d8_8f1e_00304828b574_1782; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:04:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD9F519C6E; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AA71019C6E; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:04:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03C2E19C1C; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.244]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7437C19B45 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so6060cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.79 with SMTP id u79mr6714cwc; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] plan 9 ports churn Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:03:52 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: There's a lot of new stuff in the Plan 9 ports tarball/CVS but the downside is that I don't know how well it builds on systems other than FreeBSD and Linux. (Actually going through all the motions takes me a full day, and I just can't justify doing it again so soon.) If you're not in the mood for slightly untested stuff, don't update for a while. Russ From boyd@insultant.net Sun Apr 25 19:56:18 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 25 07:46:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 469ac7b4_9641_11d8_8f92_00304828b574_3699; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B93345470 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4664dff0_9641_11d8_90a4_00304828b574_3696; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 725D57580FA; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB677580F9 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 462b5c58_9641_11d8_8dc5_00304828b574_3692; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F37E345473 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4580f722_9641_11d8_9944_00304828b574_3683; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 07:46:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4BB9B19D2B; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5A24C19D01; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:46:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BBA3D19C75; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8625E19B94 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6673837960 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:44:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <058401c42a4d$5515ffd0$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6539032d477448b0012d3f61ba04e24f@collyer.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:41:48 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Each directory contains files representing the names of the > machines in that domain; an example might be the path > /net/name/usa/edu/mit/ai. Each machine file contains information like > the IP address of the machine. We rejected this representation for > several reasons. ... i have to disagree. the ! addressing no different from / [file] addressing. you can synthesise the file tree based on context. a!b!c as a comand line argumeet is just that, whereas user mode fileservers can do whatever they like. getting the structure of the file tree may be tricky, but that's what makes it interesting. a!b!c goes all the way back to datakit and uucp. i'd say it's time to dump it. if you want shortcuts use bind(1). EGREG? ;) From russcox@gmail.com Sun Apr 25 19:56:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Sun Apr 25 12:50:19 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab6ebb80_966b_11d8_897c_00304828b574_6629; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A11534418C for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ab378714_966b_11d8_8f5b_00304828b574_6625; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C40A87580FE; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B827580FD for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9ce8440_966b_11d8_8b90_00304828b574_6600; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:50:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBB83441A5 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:36:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c4e2296e_9669_11d8_8466_00304828b574_23749; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:36:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1C75F19CBD; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 06EA319B8C; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:36:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA36619B8C; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 99F5219BAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so7097cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.4 with SMTP id u4mr11364cwc; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6539032d477448b0012d3f61ba04e24f@collyer.net> <058401c42a4d$5515ffd0$48db7d50@SOMA> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:35:25 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i have to disagree. the ! addressing no different from / [file] > addressing. you can synthesise the file tree based on context. cd /net/name/usa/edu; ls From davel@anvil.com Mon Apr 26 20:18:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 04:48:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92f51f0a_96f1_11d8_87a7_00304828b574_2474; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E42345237 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92be6c6c_96f1_11d8_8aad_00304828b574_2470; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E97B97580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9964B7580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 927b2a4c_96f1_11d8_8c77_00304828b574_2467; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22E6345237 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 91c9707c_96f1_11d8_8425_00304828b574_2463; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:48:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 86F2919B96; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B51C19ED0; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:48:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 24F0219E23; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2D37119D28 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 7EBB4715; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:45:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DFE709 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:45:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA11905 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:46:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <6539032d477448b0012d3f61ba04e24f@collyer.net> <058401c42a4d$5515ffd0$48db7d50@SOMA> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1082922524.18676.6.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:48:44 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Sun, 2004-04-25 at 04:35, Russ Cox wrote: > > i have to disagree. the ! addressing no different from / [file] > > addressing. you can synthesise the file tree based on context. I have to disagree with the disagreement: in this context Context = RandomRFCMush * random_practice_on_the_internet Now, if someone wants to write a file server that understands the minds of the creators, high priests and supplicants of that ginormous tin god DeeEnEss, then good luck to them. I look forward eagerly to the skeleton design spec, due early next millennium. > cd /net/name/usa/edu; ls Amen. Dave. From russcox@gmail.com Mon Apr 26 20:18:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 05:44:01 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 485f260e_96f9_11d8_8d40_00304828b574_18811; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:44:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431FB345305 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46968704_96f9_11d8_95b3_00304828b574_18801; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C7502758107; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3307580FF for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45226744_96f9_11d8_87cb_00304828b574_18782; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8AA0345305 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3d420110_96f9_11d8_9ded_00304828b574_18701; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:43:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D98C319EF0; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8929A19CB1; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:43:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17A9719DE2; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.243]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id D6F7719BFE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so8383cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.63 with SMTP id x63mr14910cwb; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Dotfiles Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:35:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've removed Dotfiles from the acme sources in CVS. In return, I have fixed mc to work correctly in the presence of variable-width fonts. The new mc is in the ports CVS and also on sources. The better mc makes it easy to write a shell script to take the place of Dotfiles. There is such a shell script in the CVS repository as "Getdir". It not only removes dot files but also o.* and *.o. Best of all, lc finally looks good inside a win session. Russ From boyd@insultant.net Mon Apr 26 20:18:43 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 06:48:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 539c09ca_9702_11d8_9c67_00304828b574_9787; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4071534460C for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5369ed64_9702_11d8_8ffe_00304828b574_9784; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 218F87580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2D17580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5328ba24_9702_11d8_86d1_00304828b574_9781; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B8E34460C for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52802c74_9702_11d8_9e25_00304828b574_9778; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:48:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFD0B19F77; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2BB0E19F55; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:48:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A64F419F63; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5F2D919F55 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.219.72]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B1FB37951 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:47:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <077001c42b0e$87602c60$48db7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <6539032d477448b0012d3f61ba04e24f@collyer.net> <058401c42a4d$5515ffd0$48db7d50@SOMA> <1082922524.18676.6.camel@rea> Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:44:44 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I look forward eagerly to the skeleton design spec, > due early next millennium. > > > cd /net/name/usa/edu; ls we [Digital research sysadmins: CRL/NSL/PRL/SRC] had a design in '92. From splite@purdue.edu Mon Apr 26 20:18:46 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 14:15:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id caca61d4_9740_11d8_85d6_00304828b574_11809; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FB7345886 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca99ff8a_9740_11d8_8f4a_00304828b574_11806; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DD7217580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9716C7580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca5c1850_9740_11d8_862e_00304828b574_11803; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CF7345886 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9b02112_9740_11d8_9266_00304828b574_11799; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id ABCD619FA5; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38BE319B83; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:15:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1D0BF19C65; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sigint.cs.purdue.edu (sigint.cs.purdue.edu [128.10.2.82]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 43DD719B05 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sigint.cs.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 118) id 88CF0CDCE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:14:25 -0500 (EST) From: splite@purdue.edu To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Message-ID: <20040426051425.GA3293@sigint.cs.purdue.edu> References: <020b01c42911$8e3c35f0$48db7d50@SOMA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <020b01c42911$8e3c35f0$48db7d50@SOMA> X-Disclaimer: Any similarity to an opinion of Purdue is purely coincidental Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:14:25 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 11:01:24AM +0200, boyd, rounin wrote: > > After these two, my next one would probably be some way to hide dot files. > > yeah, hack namei() to death on a per-foolishness basis. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/humor/fionavar/globbing From nemo@lsub.org Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 16:58:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 90227118_9757_11d8_8047_00304828b574_26306; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0036C345965 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8febf66a_9757_11d8_91ad_00304828b574_26303; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E4FF67580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E82B7580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8fac5910_9757_11d8_8c3d_00304828b574_26300; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B736345965 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8edf1d10_9757_11d8_9830_00304828b574_26297; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CCFCF19E48; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0530319C53; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:58:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BE34419CFC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E268519C1F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <499f328d8dc6462edbadb7e4894feaf8@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:57:05 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 1) if i import a remote namespace containing /srv, mounting a file in > /srv triples the latency of requests on the mounted namespace (write > tmsg, reply, read rmsg header, reply, read rmsg body, reply). > 2) without re-mounting the connection, there's no way of introducing a > new user to a remotely imported namespace. But this could be done by arranging the the final clients to talk to the actual servers, without resorting to proxy places. But this would require changing the name space semantics. We do that for Plan B, but don't know how it would fit with Plan 9. To make it more clear what I mean, one way to do it would be to make all 9P servers become network addressable, then change the way the ns is printed so that a user could reproduce the ns from any other place in the network. > 3) the '#' namespace is quite restrictive (devices can't be attached by > a remote machine, unless using an additional protocol, such as > import), but also overly permissive (there's no way of arbitrarily > restricting the set of devices available to sub-processes) > > 4) there's an arbitrary distinction between the '#' namespace and normal > namespace, when kernel/user boundary is potentially largely arbitrary. > you can't, for instance, substitute a user-level simulation of device > x if a program accesses it via #x rather than a previously mounted > instance of it. A regular /dev (or whatever) directory with one mounted file|dir per device would be cleaner. Instead of doing the #s trick, newns() could return not a clean namespace, but one with devices installed. To do sandboxing one could unmount from there whatever is not wanted. > 6) kernel level devices are privileged in that they can access some > user resources directly, in particular open fds and names. user level > servers can't. This is one thing that I dislike even with the way things work today. But it would probably require changing many interfaces. The clone interface is something that I think is confussing. > here's the germ of a solution: put auth files in the namespace. BTW, I don't see why you would need this: > the implementation would be straightforward (main kernel change would > be having a Dev* inside a Chan rather than indirecting through > devtab), and it doesn't change 9p. almost all user-level code would > be unaffected. Is it to proxy for a remote dev? PS: I had your mail hanging around since you sent it, it's just that it was not clear for me how your idea would actually work when compared, for example, with what I suggested above or with the current behaviour. That's why I didn't reply earlier. Perhaps the same happen to others. cheers From forsyth@terzarima.net Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:04:23 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 53e0a386_9758_11d8_8247_00304828b574_31258; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B65E345980 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 53afc77a_9758_11d8_8052_00304828b574_31255; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4D6167580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064137580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 53709870_9758_11d8_85f7_00304828b574_31252; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0CA345980 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 52c84a80_9758_11d8_8aec_00304828b574_31249; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:21 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0872619D35; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7031219D35; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:04:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11FC419D80; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D02319D20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a6a3792c064eb1febf21077afc2b938@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:04:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 6) kernel level devices are privileged in that they can access some >>This is one thing that I dislike even with the way things work today. But >>it would probably require changing many interfaces. The clone interface >>is something that I think is confussing. user level file devices can and do implement clone files/directories without special rights, so i'm not sure that comment is in the right place (discussing kernel devices). From nemo@lsub.org Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:17:11 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e09027e_975a_11d8_8bd3_00304828b574_12317; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DBC344A2B for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1dad014a_975a_11d8_8be7_00304828b574_12279; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:10 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 205047580FF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:09 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12759758100 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b71f1ec_975a_11d8_989f_00304828b574_12003; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEA9344312 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59c0ca28_9759_11d8_8458_00304828b574_6029; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DFE1F19DB0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8671E19B6A; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B822219A8D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22D3019D80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: <8a6a3792c064eb1febf21077afc2b938@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:10:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agree. It's not in the right place. Sorry. --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Apr 26 10:04:14 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2A2C19F94; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EBA019D35; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:03:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11FC419D80; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D02319D20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a6a3792c064eb1febf21077afc2b938@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:04:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 6) kernel level devices are privileged in that they can access some >>This is one thing that I dislike even with the way things work today. But >>it would probably require changing many interfaces. The clone interface >>is something that I think is confussing. user level file devices can and do implement clone files/directories without special rights, so i'm not sure that comment is in the right place (discussing kernel devices). --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds-- From forsyth@terzarima.net Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:20:08 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 872ebff0_975a_11d8_8bb8_00304828b574_15563; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18A7344A46 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86992fd0_975a_11d8_9d52_00304828b574_15487; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A543E7580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:05 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B117758105 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83cd8148_975a_11d8_800f_00304828b574_15169; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:20:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EA6344399 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:13:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a22cce1a_9759_11d8_8c04_00304828b574_8194; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:13:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F1D6C19DCF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B6B6519C09; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:13:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C634A19B86; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 050FE19B6A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7910307545b76fd22860940734bcb55d@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ccqgqljxoddygrzroapedgkduj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:13:41 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ccqgqljxoddygrzroapedgkduj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was really just checking that i hadn't misunderstood! --upas-ccqgqljxoddygrzroapedgkduj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 26 09:10:25 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 716CB19B83; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 60F4A19B86; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:11:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B822219A8D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 22D3019D80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: Fco.J.Ballesteros To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: <8a6a3792c064eb1febf21077afc2b938@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:10:13 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agree. It's not in the right place. Sorry. --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by aquamar; Mon Apr 26 10:04:14 MDT 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E2A2C19F94; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1EBA019D35; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:03:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 11FC419D80; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D02319D20 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a6a3792c064eb1febf21077afc2b938@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:04:23 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > 6) kernel level devices are privileged in that they can access some >>This is one thing that I dislike even with the way things work today. But >>it would probably require changing many interfaces. The clone interface >>is something that I think is confussing. user level file devices can and do implement clone files/directories without special rights, so i'm not sure that comment is in the right place (discussing kernel devices). --upas-jgumehxlfrvhajmtyvyyihjgds-- --upas-ccqgqljxoddygrzroapedgkduj-- From matthias@mteege.de Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:24:36 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26fd6112_975b_11d8_91d3_00304828b574_20517; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E02434419D for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 26c68318_975b_11d8_8363_00304828b574_20512; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ADA117580F9; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:32 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BB9758100 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 23b1d77c_975b_11d8_834e_00304828b574_20454; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71450344453 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:16:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0dd90f2a_975a_11d8_8d5f_00304828b574_11494; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:16:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0882819C09; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D066E19B93; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:16:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B1EE919F06; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5484D19D80 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 61279 invoked by uid 66); 26 Apr 2004 08:15:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 24265 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 08:12:07 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 08:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 19541 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 08:12:07 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 08:12:07 -0000 Message-ID: <4adb54474b9e4aec8d32b1e9e8a346b8@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Get the message number Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:11:10 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Moin, I read my mail with faces and nedmail. Sometimes I try to copy the content of the mail to an local document. But I can't use snarf because VMware doesn't support it. So I write the mail to a tempfile with "w" and read the tempfile from sam. I think it is easier to get the mail direct from /mail/fs but "=" in nedmail only gives me 1 as message number. I think, this is because faces. Is there anyway to get the "real" message number in nedmail /faces? Matthias From philippe.anel@noos.fr Mon Apr 26 20:18:48 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:27:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93fc6e3e_975b_11d8_90cc_00304828b574_23262; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CF234481E for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 93ca5b24_975b_11d8_92c4_00304828b574_23259; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 598947580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101097580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 938b632e_975b_11d8_8c2d_00304828b574_23256; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF6934481E for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 92dccb2a_975b_11d8_8d4a_00304828b574_23253; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:27:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9D88119E80; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21E4219C19; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:27:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6BA6D199FE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-16.noos.net [212.198.2.124]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CFBE8199D6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22807 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 08:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.124 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 08:26:27 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426102551.07d59110@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number In-Reply-To: <4adb54474b9e4aec8d32b1e9e8a346b8@mteege.de> References: <4adb54474b9e4aec8d32b1e9e8a346b8@mteege.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:28:33 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 10:11 26/04/04, you wrote: >Moin, > >I read my mail with faces and nedmail. Sometimes I try to copy >the content of the mail to an local document. But I can't use snarf >because VMware doesn't support it. It works here. You have to start the undocumented /386/bin/aux/vmwarefs cmd. [then take a look at /mnt/vmware/snarf] Philippe, >So I write the mail to a tempfile with "w" and read the tempfile >from sam. I think it is easier to get the mail direct from /mail/fs but >"=" in nedmail only gives me 1 as message number. I think, this is >because faces. > >Is there anyway to get the "real" message number in nedmail /faces? > >Matthias From 9cn6w6402@sneakemail.com Mon Apr 26 20:18:49 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 17:59:18 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 001008a2_9760_11d8_81ca_00304828b574_17333; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:18 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3A9344B66 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ffd33602_975f_11d8_9f7c_00304828b574_17324; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:17 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 021B375810D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:17 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D59758103 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fe17aa0a_975f_11d8_8d40_00304828b574_17284; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:59:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DA1344AF0 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f11836da_975f_11d8_8232_00304828b574_16395; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 210F419FAB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ED78919C13; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:58:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CD01819BD6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8D54F19C13 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BI1jG-0001EK-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:44:42 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Peter Canning <9cn6w6402@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: , <969120f4722fd9bdd363136c895b96e8@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:44:30 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:21:51 +0000, andrey mirtchovski wrote: >=20 >> What do you mean by an XWindows resource? >> Is this different from a command-line option? >> (Sorry, I know very little about X even now.) >=20 > basically X resources allow you to circumvent having to supply an > argument for each little thing you want to execute. for example, to > let xterm understand utf8 you can either exec xterm -u8 every time or > set: >=20 > xterm*utf8: 1 >=20 > in .Xresource... >=20 I think of X resources as Xserver-side environments variables. Typically the resources in $HOME/.Xresources get loaded into the X server as properties of the root window during session startup, so that they are accessible to X programs using that display no matter where the program is running. - Peter Canning From matthias@mteege.de Mon Apr 26 20:18:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 18:51:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4eea00ca_9767_11d8_95d1_00304828b574_1196; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80FAF34422B for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4eb3d73e_9767_11d8_9265_00304828b574_1193; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 695A27580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202317580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4e7762c2_9767_11d8_8bae_00304828b574_1190; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3C934422B for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4dc70cb0_9767_11d8_8192_00304828b574_1187; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:35 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CBE1019D82; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC45119CB3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 00ACA199FE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B02E19A60 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 63144 invoked by uid 66); 26 Apr 2004 09:50:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 24804 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 09:49:05 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 09:49:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 26404 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 09:49:05 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 09:49:05 -0000 Message-ID: <1a99377c2fde111ab537cdc1fbaaa318@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426102551.07d59110@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:48:07 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon Apr 26 08:54:45 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > It works here. You have to start the undocumented /386/bin/aux/vmwarefs > cmd. [then take a look at /mnt/vmware/snarf] Cool, i disabled aux/vmware in termrc and now I can snarf/paste between rio and sam and acme snarf/paste work to. Thanks Matthias From t.lankots@aprote.ee Mon Apr 26 20:18:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 18:55:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e15da5e2_9767_11d8_9d41_00304828b574_4529; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F63344C21 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e123b0f8_9767_11d8_8a1e_00304828b574_4525; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1FD7B7580FA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0587580F9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e0ea3666_9767_11d8_9f8c_00304828b574_4522; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCE6344C21 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e03fcb9a_9767_11d8_8e6c_00304828b574_4517; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03F1E19FB3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BDE219D90; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 03C3919DB0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id ADA2319D88 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i3Q9tBfH004599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:55:11 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] p9 mice Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479DD4@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] p9 mice Thread-Index: AcQrbLT9mpHznbt0TDO6QzWAeBVGMQAB4eqw From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:54:05 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I just found out that Labtec (http://www.labtec.com) does still make a nice optical 3-button mouse. No scroll wheel. Costs $8 in U.S. From philippe.anel@noos.fr Mon Apr 26 20:18:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 19:23:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b27d910c_976b_11d8_934e_00304828b574_27308; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:23:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 647AB344CDF for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:23:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b21dce5c_976b_11d8_93ae_00304828b574_27301; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:23:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CEAD3758100; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:23:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822CD7580FE for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:22:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b10f8f6e_976b_11d8_9ce7_00304828b574_27199; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:22:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F637344CDA for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:22:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9d20b32_976b_11d8_907c_00304828b574_27133; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:22:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DF71D19FB6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5BF1D19FAC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2D29819FAE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-14.noos.net [212.198.2.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D95E119B7B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1404 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 10:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.122 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 10:21:03 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426121423.0ac5d010@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number In-Reply-To: <1a99377c2fde111ab537cdc1fbaaa318@mteege.de> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426102551.07d59110@pop.noos.fr> <1a99377c2fde111ab537cdc1fbaaa318@mteege.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:23:04 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 11:48 26/04/04, you wrote: >On Mon Apr 26 08:54:45 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > > It works here. You have to start the undocumented /386/bin/aux/vmwarefs > > cmd. [then take a look at /mnt/vmware/snarf] > >Cool, i disabled aux/vmware in termrc and now I can snarf/paste >between rio and sam and acme snarf/paste work to. I don't understand. I'm using plan9, vmware and aux/vmware and I haven't problem with the snarf buffer. Could you start aux/vmware again and try the following commands ? echo -n 'hello' > /dev/snarf cat /dev/snarf cat /mnt/vmware/snarf echo -n 'world' > /mnt/vmware/snarf cat /dev/snarf cat /mnt/vmware/snarf Regards, Philippe. From nmh@t3x.org Mon Apr 26 20:18:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 20:04:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75cb5a40_9771_11d8_881a_00304828b574_31409; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2BB34463C for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75908a00_9771_11d8_923f_00304828b574_31401; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9EF18758106; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:14 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A087580FA for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 72f61ea4_9771_11d8_8260_00304828b574_31323; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48AD344D18 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:58:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b6b24682_9770_11d8_9843_00304828b574_24930; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:58:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0C81D19FA3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90E9619FA3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:58:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6653919C77; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7615719CD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BI3nQ-0007tS-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:57:08 +0200 Received: from [80.140.6.128] (helo=t3x.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BI3nQ-00034O-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:57:08 +0200 Received: (from nmh@localhost) by t3x.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id i3QAsTe10733; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:54:29 +0200 (CEST) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Nils M Holm Subject: Re: [9fans] p9 mice In-Reply-To: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479DD4@black.aprote.com> Message-ID: <2004042610511400-10722@Symmetry.UUCP> X-Mailer: NMail X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:5b68ff8df1d89a0a7485e040b6c88401 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:51:14 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On 2004-04-26, "Tiit Lankots" wrote: > I just found out that Labtec (http://www.labtec.com) does still make > a nice optical 3-button mouse. No scroll wheel. Costs $8 in U.S. I have checked their product description for the non-wheel mice and it does not say that they are optical. Too bad, a non-wheel optical three-button mouse would be really nice. Nils -- Nils M Holm -- http://www.t3x.org/nmh/ From t.lankots@aprote.ee Mon Apr 26 20:18:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 20:08:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d26e78c_9772_11d8_9dce_00304828b574_3841; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5F9344238 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1cf11760_9772_11d8_9d5d_00304828b574_3837; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8F7517580FD; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800DE758107 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 195ffa80_9772_11d8_88f2_00304828b574_3715; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4F3344B88 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:05:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8b676a6_9771_11d8_8a2f_00304828b574_32751; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:05:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 885C619FAC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B4AD319FA3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:05:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6239B19FAD; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.aprote.ee (ns.aprote.ee [80.235.78.106]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1043F19CD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: Message by Barricade ns.aprote.ee with ESMTP id i3QB5Q1g005275 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:05:26 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [9fans] p9 mice Message-ID: <81132473206F3A46A72BD6116E1A06AE479DD5@black.aprote.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [9fans] p9 mice Thread-Index: AcQrfYhedGbXnEKtSIa79QU2y0M5egAAGiyA From: "Tiit Lankots" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:04:19 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I have checked their product description for the non-wheel mice and > it does not say that they are optical. Too bad, a non-wheel optical > three-button mouse would be really nice. Dammit, yes. It seems that it's a ball-mouse. I saw it on Amazon where it claimed to be an optical one; I didn't verify that before = posting the link. Sorry. But still, it's a 3-button mouse that's being = manufactured. I thought they were extinct. From matthias@mteege.de Mon Apr 26 20:18:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 20:08:58 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1db01066_9772_11d8_9150_00304828b574_3858; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606F2344238 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1d783a7e_9772_11d8_8a62_00304828b574_3847; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7E7BF7580FC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC3F75810A for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1a1fc32e_9772_11d8_8b02_00304828b574_3726; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:08:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730A2344BE7 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:06:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8c1c342_9771_11d8_92e6_00304828b574_1359; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:06:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0D5DE19FAF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 38E0019FB0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:06:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 69BA619FAD; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 109BD19CD8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64658 invoked by uid 66); 26 Apr 2004 11:05:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 25224 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 11:01:33 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 11:01:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 31398 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 11:01:33 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 11:01:33 -0000 Message-ID: From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426121423.0ac5d010@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:00:36 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon Apr 26 10:34:58 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > I don't understand. I'm using plan9, vmware and aux/vmware and I haven't > problem with the snarf buffer. > Could you start aux/vmware again and try the following commands ? term% aux/vmware term% echo -n 'hello' > /dev/snarf term% cat /dev/snarf term% cat /mnt/vmware/snarf term% echo -n 'world' > /mnt/vmware/snarf term% cat /dev/snarf term% cat /mnt/vmware/snarf term% ps ax | grep vmware mtg 480 0:00 0:00 136K Pread vmwarefs Matthias From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Mon Apr 26 23:08:03 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 20:58:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 170f5332_9779_11d8_9712_00304828b574_13681; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63F2345A57 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16d694e8_9779_11d8_8a94_00304828b574_13678; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 974E37580FB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0F67580FA for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 169595e2_9779_11d8_957e_00304828b574_13675; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589E7345A57 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 15e4dcde_9779_11d8_9a3a_00304828b574_13669; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:58:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E6E4E19FC4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 54ACA19FC0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:58:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B5FA619FB8; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 36D3C19FAD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BI4gU-0003IN-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:54:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports churn Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:52:36 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Russ Cox wrote: > There's a lot of new stuff in the Plan 9 ports tarball/CVS > but the downside is that I don't know how well it > builds on systems other than FreeBSD and Linux. plan9-20040424.tar.gz does not build ''out-of-the-box'' on solaris-2.8 1 the file plan9/src/libmach/SunOS.c does not exist. tentative fix by copying Darwin.c to SunOS.c 2 twice i get the following ''for loop'' in the ''install'' script output: for i in port sun4u do (cd $i; mk ) done sh: sun4u: does not exist there are 3 places in the directory structure where this might happen: ./src/libmp ./src/libsec ./acid in all 3 places the ''sun4u'' makes no sense but replace it with ''sparc'' and things seems logical. to achive this replace ''uname -m'' with ''uname -p'' in plan9/src/mkhdr:2 . after doing that it is also neccessary to rename all the files with sun4u in their names: cp ./plan9/src/libthread/asm-SunOS-sun4u.s ./plan9/src/libthread/asm-SunOS-sparc.s cp ./plan9/src/libthread/sun4u.c ./plan9/src/libthread/sparc.c cp ./plan9/src/lib9/getcallerpc-sun4u.s ./plan9/src/lib9/getcallerpc-sparc.s cp ./plan9/src/lib9/tas-sun4u.s ./plan9/src/lib9/tas-sparc.s cp ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sun4u ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sparc cp ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sun4u-cc ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sparc-cc cp ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sun4u-gcc ./plan9/unix/make/Make.SunOS-sparc-gcc 3 i get a loader error, when plan9/src/libthread/sched.c calls _threadstacklimit() which is in plan9/src/libthread/386.c, but not in plan9/src/libthread/sparc.c. ''solved'' by adding empty functions to plan9/src/libthread/sparc.c void _threadinswitch(int enter) { USED(enter); } void _threadstacklimit(void *addr) { USED(addr); } bengt From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Mon Apr 26 23:27:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e76bb9c6_978d_11d8_94f5_00304828b574_15961; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA8C344EFE for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e7345620_978d_11d8_800d_00304828b574_15958; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2C89D7580FB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A947580FA for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e6f8e78e_978d_11d8_9a1b_00304828b574_15955; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBCF344EFE for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e628b7e4_978d_11d8_8104_00304828b574_15949; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:27:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 09BD019EE4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BF3F019E85; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:27:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5F71F19AED; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-16.noos.net [212.198.2.124]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BC9F019E78 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27588 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 14:26:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.124 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 14:26:09 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426154148.0ad1ca70@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426121423.0ac5d010@pop.noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:28:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 13:00 26/04/04, you wrote: >On Mon Apr 26 10:34:58 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > > I don't understand. I'm using plan9, vmware and aux/vmware and I haven't > > problem with the snarf buffer. > > Could you start aux/vmware again and try the following commands ? > >term% aux/vmware >term% echo -n 'hello' > /dev/snarf >term% cat /dev/snarf >term% cat /mnt/vmware/snarf >term% echo -n 'world' > /mnt/vmware/snarf >term% cat /dev/snarf >term% cat /mnt/vmware/snarf >term% ps ax | grep vmware >mtg 480 0:00 0:00 136K Pread vmwarefs Ok, it seems you disabled Cut and Paste from and to the virtual machine. Right ? I suspect a bug from aux/vmwarefs which fails to back copy to /dev/snarf, the value written to /mnt/vmware/snarf, when Cut and Paste is disabled from and to the virtual machine. Could you try the following aux/vmware script : -------------------------------------------------------cut----- #!/bin/rc if(aux/isvmware -s){ if(test -f '#P/pge'){ echo -n on >'#P/pge' # default, but set anyway. echo -n off >'#P/i8253timerset' } if(test -f /dev/archctl){ echo pge on >/dev/archctl echo coherence nop >/dev/archctl echo i8253set off >/dev/archctl } for(i in '#S'/sd??) if(test -f $i/ctl) echo dma on >$i/ctl echo 'starting vmwarefs' aux/vmwarefs if(test -f '/mnt/vmware/gui') { x=`{ grep copypaste /mnt/vmware/gui } if(~ $x(2) on){ if(! test -f /dev/snarf) aux/stub /dev/snarf echo 'binding /mnt/vmware/snarf over /dev/snarf' bind /mnt/vmware/snarf /dev/snarf } } echo 'starting vmmousepoll' aux/vmmousepoll & } -------------------------------------------------------cut----- Regards, Philippe. From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 00:18:09 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecd477b6_9794_11d8_9309_00304828b574_30275; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:18:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3494344389 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:18:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec9b1980_9794_11d8_9724_00304828b574_30262; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:18:08 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 804407580F9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:18:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE697580FF for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:17:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e73113be_9794_11d8_8f6d_00304828b574_29698; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B547E344E10 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:13:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58092eba_9794_11d8_936e_00304828b574_25135; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:14:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 736B219C73; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 95C3219D8D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:13:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CF32119C56; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.252]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 25C1E19A66 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so10117cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.31 with SMTP id u31mr19838cwc; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <499f328d8dc6462edbadb7e4894feaf8@vitanuova.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:12:30 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Here's an independent but seemingly similar idea. Suppose the kernel were a good 9P multiplexor instead of a cleaner Unix kernel with devmnt hanging on the side. All the devices would speak in terms of 9P messages (something like Fcall or lib9p's Req, not the wire representation). The traditional system calls open, read, write, etc. would simply translate into the obvious 9P transactions, always. Devmnt's job then is only to read/write messages from fds. With 9P messages at the center, exportfs is trivial -- the kernel would need to rewrite tags and fids in the messages on their way to the appropriate 9P server. Suppose also that the kernel was smart about mounting a channel it exports, noticing this case and avoiding the extra packs and unpacks to and from wire representation. Then fd = exportfs("/a"); mount(fd, "/b", MREPL); would be equivalent to bind("/a", "/b", MREPL) as far as message efficiency is concerned -- in neither case would accesses to /b be any different (in terms of extra wire traffic over pipes) than access to /a. Now suppose /srv could only post 9P services, meaning that when multiple people opened the same service, the kernel would take care of multiplexing their 9P requests appropriately so that the original poster would only see a single logical 9P conversation. Then there's no difference between mounting a fd somewhere and opening that same fd and doing your own 9P traffic on it via read and write. (You can't do that right now because once a fd gets mounted, r/w from user-space would not get multiplexed properly.) Now the # names can go away too -- the kernel just starts by posting all its devices in /srv. Of course, this says nothing about auth files, much less authentication. I think that your scheme uses auth files the same way mine does 9P services. Put another way, I think (and I could be way off base here) that your scheme posts unauthenticated 9P services while mine posts preauthenticated 9P services. I don't see how to do authentication in user space and keep the "reductions" of things like fd = exportfs("/a"); mount(fd, "/b", MREPL);. It might be that on the local machine people are already authenticated "enough", but I don't see what to do to serve incoming network connections. I think some of the things you brought up are independent of either scheme. For example, having a file descriptor represent an unopened file and bootstrapping newns by setting up a name space in a subtree and binding onto / could be done now without any significant kernel changes. What I don't really understand about your scheme is how much you're getting from an auth file being authentication-related and how much you're getting from it being the beginning of a 9P connection. I do think there's a germ of a good idea here, but the devil is in the details. Russ From matthias@mteege.de Tue Apr 27 20:06:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 00:21:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6ee97288_9795_11d8_91d6_00304828b574_582; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159D1344E71 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6eb753f2_9795_11d8_8e96_00304828b574_579; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EC12A7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14157580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6e75ff42_9795_11d8_97b3_00304828b574_576; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD22B344E71 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6dc642dc_9795_11d8_8a88_00304828b574_573; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:21:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EFD6619F81; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 15E3019E85; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:21:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2A06719EF9; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B2FC819E30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 68365 invoked by uid 66); 26 Apr 2004 15:20:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 26614 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 15:16:26 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 15:16:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 38200 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 15:16:26 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 15:16:26 -0000 Message-ID: From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426154148.0ad1ca70@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:15:29 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon Apr 26 14:50:01 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > Ok, it seems you disabled Cut and Paste from and to the virtual > machine. Right ? Yes, because there are problems with other apps. > I suspect a bug from aux/vmwarefs which fails to back copy to > /dev/snarf, the value written to /mnt/vmware/snarf, when Cut > and Paste is disabled from and to the virtual machine. > Could you try the following aux/vmware script : H run your script with cut/paste enabled and disabled in vmware. VMware c/p enabled term% ./srf starting vmwarefs binding /mnt/vmware/snarf over /dev/snarf starting vmmousepoll VMware c/p disabled term% ./srf starting vmwarefs starting vmmousepoll In both cases snarf/paste from rio to sam or acme don't work. Matthias From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 00:39:17 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e08c1db2_9797_11d8_9e1d_00304828b574_15555; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5E0344406 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e055a1f6_9797_11d8_8fca_00304828b574_15551; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:16 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id DB83D7580F9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527037580FA for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id deece1b2_9797_11d8_8fc6_00304828b574_15531; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:39:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA76344406 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:38:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cf41e532_9797_11d8_9a2c_00304828b574_14633; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:38:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7B5EC19FC5; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E69B819ECE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:38:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 21F7819EE3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-15.noos.net [212.198.2.123]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A2C1F19E35 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2064 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 15:37:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.123 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 15:37:55 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426172524.0aca9040@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426154148.0ad1ca70@pop.noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:39:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 17:15 26/04/04, you wrote: >On Mon Apr 26 14:50:01 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > > Ok, it seems you disabled Cut and Paste from and to the virtual > > machine. Right ? > >Yes, because there are problems with other apps. > > > I suspect a bug from aux/vmwarefs which fails to back copy to > > /dev/snarf, the value written to /mnt/vmware/snarf, when Cut > > and Paste is disabled from and to the virtual machine. > > Could you try the following aux/vmware script : > >H run your script with cut/paste enabled and disabled in vmware. > >VMware c/p enabled >term% ./srf >starting vmwarefs >binding /mnt/vmware/snarf over /dev/snarf >starting vmmousepoll > >VMware c/p disabled >term% ./srf >starting vmwarefs >starting vmmousepoll > >In both cases snarf/paste from rio to sam or acme don't work. :( Did you rebooted the vm between each test ? Could you execute this script from termrc (ie before rio) ? Could you execute the command "/bin/ns | grep snarf" after each test ? Regards, Philippe. >Matthias From rminnich@lanl.gov Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 00:50:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 81c9a75c_9799_11d8_9a23_00304828b574_24391; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4195344F6B for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8196a1f4_9799_11d8_9378_00304828b574_24388; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 98FC97580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBE37580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8157e202_9799_11d8_8ea4_00304828b574_24385; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6603C344F6B for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80aea778_9799_11d8_9893_00304828b574_24382; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7CB9D19EF9; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2FCFD19BC5; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:50:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C295F19E81; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B0AA19D09 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QFn7ik003190 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:49:07 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QFn7p9002204 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:49:07 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QFn7wO003711 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:49:07 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:49:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: These are neat ideas but there is one thing I still like about '#' -- it distinguishes what for me is non-private stuff from private stuff. I.e. in my (probably too simplistic) way of thinking, all the '#' stuff in addition to being devices means 'if bound in a name space, it's common to all'. If all the # stuff becomes things in /srv we'll lost the distinction -- it could be that it doesn't really matter, though. ron From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:36:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed025c5c_979f_11d8_95bb_00304828b574_3235; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D6D34444C for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecd1260a_979f_11d8_94a9_00304828b574_3232; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7A0947580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3201F7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec9214ce_979f_11d8_89e2_00304828b574_3229; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CFD34444C for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebe92cb0_979f_11d8_951d_00304828b574_3226; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:36:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9EEB319EE1; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5655719DBB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1B07C19E30; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 96C7B19C81 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e962333bab938e179d5ba0113acc7ec@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:41:25 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > one way to do it would be to make all 9P servers become network addressable this is not possible in general. one of the beauties of 9p is the fact that it is completely transport independent - just so long as you've got that single channel (whatever it's over), you've got access to the capabilities at the other end. there is not, and neither can there be, a general addressing protocol. hence it makes sense, i think, to have a protocol that can encapsulate the idea of introducing new users *within* a namespace. > A regular /dev (or whatever) directory with > one mounted file|dir per device would be cleaner. Instead of doing the > #s trick, newns() could return not a clean namespace, but one with > devices installed. To do sandboxing one could unmount from there whatever > is not wanted. how would newns() (which is not a system call) get access to those devices? and if a process is in a sandbox, what's to stop it doing a newns() and getting access to those devices anyway. the srv device idea is to let the available devices percolate down from the top level. there's no way to access a device to which one has not been granted access. > This is one thing that I dislike even with the way things work today. But > it would probably require changing many interfaces. i think it's actually relatively straightforward to change this. i don't believe this capability is used in many places, and the number of kernel devices that use it is limited. a simple capability scheme should do the job. > BTW, I don't see why you would need this: > > > the implementation would be straightforward (main kernel change would > > be having a Dev* inside a Chan rather than indirecting through > > devtab), and it doesn't change 9p. almost all user-level code would > > be unaffected. > > Is it to proxy for a remote dev? you're right, i don't think it is necessary. i'd thought it was required due to the way that some kernel devices (in particular the srv device) would "gateway" through to other kernel devices. i think the current interface is almost sufficient (depending on what kind of authentication might be required by kernel devices). From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:37:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b625bfc_97a0_11d8_8004_00304828b574_4099; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B1E3444BD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0b2b29e8_97a0_11d8_9ded_00304828b574_4096; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6EA957580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EF57580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0af08504_97a0_11d8_84de_00304828b574_4093; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE943444BD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a48553c_97a0_11d8_870d_00304828b574_4090; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:37:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9B76519F42; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D628619EAA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:37:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0BA7D19EAA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3EA9C19EB0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:42:39 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > These are neat ideas but there is one thing I still like about '#' -- it > distinguishes what for me is non-private stuff from private stuff. the devtype letter would still work, which should be sufficient. From Administrator@snellwilcox.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:40:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77a86bb2_97a0_11d8_889c_00304828b574_6381; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA2A344BE9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7771a028_97a0_11d8_8d4c_00304828b574_6377; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1C8197580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79DC7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7737fa9e_97a0_11d8_9212_00304828b574_6374; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC28344BE9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 768f5b96_97a0_11d8_8288_00304828b574_6369; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:40:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C2C1319FB4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6840C19EE3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:40:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3083919E30; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.snellwilcox.com (testone.snellwilcox.com [195.173.15.12]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id AC59B19F4F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:38:59 -0400 (EDT) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "cc:Mail Link to SMTP Administrator" Importance: normal Priority: normal Message-Id: <1082997536-0-Administrator@snellwilcox.com> X-MIME-Engine: v0.90 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Id: <1082997536-1-Administrator@snellwilcox.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: "cc:Mail Link to SMTP Administrator" List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:38:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This message was not delivered. Reason: The specified name could not be found: 981768180@snellwilcox.com Original message header follows: --------------------- Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] by snellwilcox.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.52.01.1) ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:38:54 GMT Return-Path: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: 9fans@cse.psu.edu To: 981768180@snellwilcox.com Subject: Re: Hi Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:38:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_00003B16.0000223D" From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:43:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e339328a_97a0_11d8_96cf_00304828b574_8725; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEFE344CCC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e30924dc_97a0_11d8_83c5_00304828b574_8722; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 8D5727580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CED7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2c941be_97a0_11d8_9b08_00304828b574_8719; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604E5344CCC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e222aed0_97a0_11d8_944e_00304828b574_8716; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:43:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1270A19FB4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5800E19EE3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:43:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2BC1819F2C; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CBE9219EE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9e4e21fc6d55eeda301f48ae41fd6304@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <1e962333bab938e179d5ba0113acc7ec@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:43:47 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>a simple capability scheme should do the job. the thing that applies the capability must be in the kernel to affect kernel-related data, so i'm not sure it's very different in practice from a driver doing the same. From nemo@lsub.org Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:49:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bbb2b1f4_97a1_11d8_9ec6_00304828b574_13289; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86D9344FAC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb825c3e_97a1_11d8_8bfb_00304828b574_13286; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BC33D7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EAA7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb42dbea_97a1_11d8_8671_00304828b574_13283; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B427344FAC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ba9af998_97a1_11d8_9643_00304828b574_13280; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:49:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 23D9A19F69; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9871319ECE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:49:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1101119ECE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 760CA19B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e846efb83b15272257aea9d54fa4194@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <1e962333bab938e179d5ba0113acc7ec@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:48:51 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > one of the beauties of 9p is the fact that it is completely transport > independent - just so long as you've got that single channel > (whatever it's over), you've got access to the capabilities > at the other end. I know, and that's also why in general you can't reproduce a ns at a remote location. However, if you make all your servers responsive at a network address, you are one step closer to do that. > hence it makes sense, i think, to have a protocol that can encapsulate > the idea of introducing new users *within* a namespace. Your point makes sense to me. But I think it's not too radical to solve the (few) problems that bother me while using plan 9. The one I mention above is one of them. My argument is that if we ever get into changing the name space, I'd try to fix some other problems too. >> A regular /dev (or whatever) directory with >> one mounted file|dir per device would be cleaner. Instead of doing the >> #s trick, newns() could return not a clean namespace, but one with >> devices installed. To do sandboxing one could unmount from there whatever >> is not wanted. > > how would newns() (which is not a system call) get access to those > devices? and if a process is in a sandbox, what's to stop > it doing a newns() and getting access to those devices anyway. Sorry, by newns() I meant rfork(RFCNAMEG). It can access them because it's the kernel. Also, RFNOMNT would prevent your sandbox to break. From matthias@mteege.de Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:51:40 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd87f38c_97a1_11d8_87b3_00304828b574_14833; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F678344FB1 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd55faf8_97a1_11d8_80ae_00304828b574_14830; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 30A747580FB; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF0C7580FA for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fd152d70_97a1_11d8_8ab4_00304828b574_14827; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7AF344FB1 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id fc67178a_97a1_11d8_9970_00304828b574_14824; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:51:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3AACC19F71; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6DA819ECE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E1B819F6D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3B7B919B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70000 invoked by uid 66); 26 Apr 2004 16:50:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 27193 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 16:46:54 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 16:46:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 44790 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 16:46:54 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 16:46:54 -0000 Message-ID: From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426172524.0aca9040@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:45:57 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 17:15 26/04/04, you wrote: > Did you rebooted the vm between each test ? Yes, and power off the virtuell machine. ;-) > Could you execute this script from termrc (ie before rio) ? Yes, I put it in lib/profile and can see the messages at boottime fn term%{ $* } /usr/mtg/srf exec rio -i riostart and there is the aux/vmware in termrc if(! ~ `{cat /dev/user} none) aux/vmware > Could you execute the command "/bin/ns | grep snarf" after each test ? disbaled < /bin/ns | grep snarf bind /mnt/vmware/snarf /dev/snarf enabled bind /mnt/vmware/snarf /dev/snarf I have a second vmware running. It is a p9 cpu/auth server. Maybe this is the problem. Copy and Paste is disabled in this instance. Matthias From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 01:53:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 493af55e_97a2_11d8_9c6b_00304828b574_16378; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52696344FBE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 490a8540_97a2_11d8_87b6_00304828b574_16375; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 355157580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B9A7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48ccb49a_97a2_11d8_8f12_00304828b574_16372; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0705D344FC0 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 48243586_97a2_11d8_9438_00304828b574_16369; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:53:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A2E5319FC4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7486E19FBB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:53:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9F02C19EE3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5E55719B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6cdb4535f5bb66418e0ecca111855443@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <9e4e21fc6d55eeda301f48ae41fd6304@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:57:59 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > the thing that applies the capability must be in the kernel to > affect kernel-related data, so i'm not sure it's very different in > practice from a driver doing the same. you need one system call to allow a process to translate from local capability (fd) to external capability (a string). that can't be implemented in the namespace itself because the namespace might not be implemented locally (for instance things can still work correctly if iostats is mediating the entire namespace). the translation the other way (from capability to fd) can, and should, be implemented by a kernel device. From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 02:01:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59ffee02_97a3_11d8_9372_00304828b574_22785; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:25 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC46344FDC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59ce68e6_97a3_11d8_9ca1_00304828b574_22782; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CC4017580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAC67580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 58fa3256_97a3_11d8_97bc_00304828b574_22779; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1933344FDC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5850e2c8_97a3_11d8_93db_00304828b574_22776; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:01:23 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AD25E19FBF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 849F919FBB; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:01:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5D42019EE3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.241]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 08C6919B52 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so10427cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.63 with SMTP id x63mr20720cwb; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:59:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > These are neat ideas but there is one thing I still like about '#' -- it > distinguishes what for me is non-private stuff from private stuff. I.e. in > my (probably too simplistic) way of thinking, all the '#' stuff in > addition to being devices means 'if bound in a name space, it's common to > all'. If all the # stuff becomes things in /srv we'll lost the distinction no it doesn't. #d. #c/user. etc. i think what you're really getting at is that # always means what you want it to mean and not what your parent process set it up to mean. and yes, there is a tension between really getting the recursion right and being able to do this. but a convention that /srv/sharp was always the root of the name space would be enough. even now, #p doesn't always means the process table. sometimes it means "you're running RFNOMT -- go away." From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 02:04:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d054839c_97a3_11d8_9af6_00304828b574_25067; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A3CF344FFD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d02512ce_97a3_11d8_8da8_00304828b574_25064; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5E15D7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8C07580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cfebb452_97a3_11d8_9994_00304828b574_25061; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ACD344FFD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id cf412762_97a3_11d8_89e0_00304828b574_25057; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:04:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4F9419F42; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5803919F37; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:04:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 098B119A31; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6389A19E30 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6548189ff8a51f2ccde79faf9ecc67f2@terzarima.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:05:12 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>would be enough. even now, #p doesn't always >>means the process table. sometimes it means >>"you're running RFNOMT -- go away." that one is currently one of the `iffy' amongst the exceptions From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 02:53:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a76b896a_97aa_11d8_89d0_00304828b574_4478; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0A9344368 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a72412b0_97aa_11d8_8101_00304828b574_4472; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5282C7580FD; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CC275810D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a39879ce_97aa_11d8_8c14_00304828b574_4410; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:53:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04348344E08 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:49:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1e6cc638_97aa_11d8_91f0_00304828b574_32393; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:49:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2493319FCE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 769A919FC2; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:49:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1342819FBF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-14.noos.net [212.198.2.122]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF57219FB4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4490 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 17:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.122 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 17:48:46 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426194552.0ae41c40@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426172524.0aca9040@pop.noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:50:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > > Could you execute the command "/bin/ns | grep snarf" after each test ? > >disbaled >< /bin/ns | grep snarf >bind /mnt/vmware/snarf /dev/snarf So, aux/vmware was started. >enabled >bind /mnt/vmware/snarf /dev/snarf > >I have a second vmware running. It is a p9 cpu/auth server. Are both running the same filesystem ? >Maybe >this is the problem. Copy and Paste is disabled in this instance. Ok. Could you test my script with both your p9 terminal vm and p9 cpu/auth ? I suggest you to rename aux/vmware and replace it with my script. Philippe. >Matthias From rattan@cps.cmich.edu Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 02:54:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ca087e1a_97aa_11d8_93ac_00304828b574_5351; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5903E34436A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c9d1a886_97aa_11d8_94c4_00304828b574_5345; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 448F87580FB; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEDE67580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c996adc6_97aa_11d8_8e44_00304828b574_5341; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E0934436A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c8e5e518_97aa_11d8_8cbb_00304828b574_5330; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:54:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA430199F2; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EBBF919CE8; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:54:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9269519ADC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ob1.cmich.edu (ob1.cmich.edu [141.209.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9246019AAE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by ob1.cmich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3QHogIk008528 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:50:43 -0400 Received: from cps212.cps.cmich.edu (cps212.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.212]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D813127E1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:27 -0400 (EDT) From: I RATTAN To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] vmware 4.5 and plan9's vmware image In-Reply-To: <76fd53eacc4a855081ab20e2a1b94ed2@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: References: <76fd53eacc4a855081ab20e2a1b94ed2@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-Spam-Score: -0.9 () X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Is vmware.zip built with fossil file system? -ishwar On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > put a relatively complete guide to running plan9 in vmware 4.x: > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/vmware4/index.html > > it's rather hastily written, so feel free to add your comments :) > > andrey > From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:03:53 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13fd5c9c_97ac_11d8_91a8_00304828b574_12228; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF186345007 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 13cc93aa_97ac_11d8_84ab_00304828b574_12225; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D08857580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876D97580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 138bbbbe_97ac_11d8_9abf_00304828b574_12222; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0494345007 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12e42070_97ac_11d8_8eaf_00304828b574_12219; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:03:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 336C219FB0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D517019CE8; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:03:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB67519FC6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:02:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-17.noos.net [212.198.2.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6401019DD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17512 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 18:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.117 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 18:02:21 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426195547.0ae42140@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: <6548189ff8a51f2ccde79faf9ecc67f2@terzarima.net> References: <6548189ff8a51f2ccde79faf9ecc67f2@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:04:27 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 19:05 26/04/04, you wrote: > >>would be enough. even now, #p doesn't always > >>means the process table. sometimes it means > >>"you're running RFNOMT -- go away." > >that one is currently one of the `iffy' amongst the exceptions With /srv/sharp, can these exceptions in 'chan.c:namec()' be treated with a file flag ? Philippe, From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:04:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33394f62_97ac_11d8_9150_00304828b574_12975; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFBF34500A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 33004906_97ac_11d8_8a94_00304828b574_12969; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3A90F7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71987580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 32c61970_97ac_11d8_81be_00304828b574_12964; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9DA434500A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 31fca180_97ac_11d8_8637_00304828b574_12960; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:04:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4534419FD0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44B8A19FBE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:04:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8FA8D19FB6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7518519DD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:09:12 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Now suppose /srv could only post 9P services, meaning that when > multiple people opened the same service, the kernel would take > care of multiplexing their 9P requests appropriately so that the > original poster would only see a single logical 9P conversation. this, presumably, would mean that the kernel would have to know about srv files, and translate all reads and writes through them as 9p messages (after all there's no guarantee that something posted into /srv, although a 9p service, has been either mounted or exported on the local machine, and we need to multiplex reads correctly). ok, so we assume a kernel knows about srv files. it could know by looking at the device letter, or by a mode bit in the file. let's assume the latter, as it's more general (and reducible to the former). say we've imported a namespace from a remote machine. in the namespace is a /srv directory, containing various exported 9p services. we wish to mount one of them. how can we do that without adding latency? even if the local kernel knows that the remote file represents a 9p connection, how can it actually transfer data to and from that connection? the 9p messages directed to that connection must be in-band with the 9p messages from the original connection - the only alternative is to use Twrite and Tread messages, which adds latency. that implies that all those messages must have valid tags, fids, etc. but where have those fids come from? you need something to associate the old fid (open on the file in /srv) with the new fid (representing the root of the new hierarchy). i can't see how your scheme can cope with that. > I don't see how to do authentication in user space and keep the > "reductions" of things like fd = exportfs("/a"); mount(fd, "/b", MREPL);. i'm not sure one needs to try. i think you're maybe glossing over something here too. one doesn't usually do the above, but actually: exportfs(p[0], "/a"); mount(p[1], "/b", MREPL); where p[0] and p[1] are two ends of a pipe. presumably the kernel would have to know about the pipe device as a special case? > Suppose the kernel were a good 9P multiplexor instead > of a cleaner Unix kernel with devmnt hanging on the side. i think what i like least about this scheme is that you need lots of extra processes... all of which are unnecessary. one thing that's really nice about the current kernel scheme is that a file operation at user level is just a function call in the kernel. you already have the process context around, and that's what gets used. if devices speak in terms of 9p messages, you're talking about a stream of 9p messages. many processes write messages into the stream, and then you need many processes at the other side to deal with the concurrency (as exportfs does). you're dealing with a many-one-many mapping, rather than the current simple one-one scheme, not to mention the additional data copying, context switches and fid/tag counting. > What I don't really understand about your scheme is how much > you're getting from an auth file being authentication-related and > how much you're getting from it being the beginning of a 9P > connection. it's crucial that you can do the authentication, as it allows a service to multiplex several different users onto the same connection. as charles likes to point out, the "important" authentication is the kind that Styx uses - i.e. end to end. however, once you've connected to a party you trust (to some extent) to act on your behalf, it's still useful to be able to authenticate yourself to third parties through them. to some services the identity of the user doesn't matter. others rely on it totally (for instance /proc). i'm not sure exactly what form local authentication should take though. [you can defer the decision though: suppose that all kernel level devices believed whatever user was named in the attach message. then imagine a device which, given an auth fd, produced another auth fd that required the client to satisfy certain authentication criteria - once satisfied, an attach would attach to the original device, as the correct (and authenticated) user. in this way you could push whatever authentication scheme you liked onto all the kernel devices available in /srv] From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:11:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ba4618c_97ad_11d8_8b60_00304828b574_18449; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253A034503C for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b72b77c_97ad_11d8_9e09_00304828b574_18446; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0A9697580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:42 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80B67580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b35d762_97ad_11d8_9da8_00304828b574_18443; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D030834503C for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2a8dc626_97ad_11d8_9480_00304828b574_18440; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:11:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5FF8619FCE; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CC1EF19AFC; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 105FA19AE2; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0BB6619A86 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426195547.0ae42140@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:16:07 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > With /srv/sharp, can these exceptions in 'chan.c:namec()' be treated > with a file flag ? i'm not sure that /srv/sharp would be a great idea. after all, isn't the idea of this to lose the distinction between user and kernel devices, and to be able to arrange things arbitrarily for a given process? after all, it might be quite reasonable, in some circumstances, to allow a process access to #S but deny it to #p. in the scheme i'm thinking of, the exceptions in namec() would go, along with RFNOMNT. From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:15:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bee1a7a2_97ad_11d8_953d_00304828b574_21465; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C103345046 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id beb0328a_97ad_11d8_8405_00304828b574_21462; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0F6FB7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA867580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id be70ad40_97ad_11d8_922d_00304828b574_21459; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42A6345046 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bdc96cec_97ad_11d8_9842_00304828b574_21456; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:15:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F248419F64; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C287919CE6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0441219CE8; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 189B619CE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6141957810b3baf774f7332f0ee7019f@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426195547.0ae42140@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:20:51 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: actually, i think i read russ's email wrong. i mistakenly thought he was referring to /srv/sharp as a kind of "device containing all # devices" device. if it's just a conventional place to get access to the "original" root, that's ok... but i'm not sure it would buy you much (just one extra thing to arrange in your ns file) From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:33:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 405840d2_97b0_11d8_95db_00304828b574_2991; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3EE345099 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 402784ce_97b0_11d8_940b_00304828b574_2988; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3FA6F7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECCC87580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3fe8989a_97b0_11d8_9b9a_00304828b574_2985; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13771345099 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f423a54_97b0_11d8_99ae_00304828b574_2982; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:33:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7A48919FCD; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 397D019C56; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:33:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F219C19CF4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4168C19C2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <058401c42a4d$5515ffd0$48db7d50@SOMA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:38:20 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > i have to disagree. the ! addressing no different from / [file] > addressing. you can synthesise the file tree based on context. how's the server meant to guess the authentication/firewall hoops you have to jump through to get access to the remote server? just naming it is not sufficient. From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:35:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 87885adc_97b0_11d8_8306_00304828b574_4638; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69C8345C93 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8757543c_97b0_11d8_86f7_00304828b574_4635; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id A92707580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F5387580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8716ba6c_97b0_11d8_9346_00304828b574_4632; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C6E345C93 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 866cfb80_97b0_11d8_97b2_00304828b574_4629; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:35:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F30B119DA7; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E6EEF19FD4; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:35:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 723E719FD1; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-20.noos.net [212.198.2.120]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F036B19FC6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17264 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2004 18:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.120 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 26 Apr 2004 18:34:02 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426202214.0ae43d80@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426195547.0ae42140@pop.noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:36:07 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 20:16 26/04/04, you wrote: > > With /srv/sharp, can these exceptions in 'chan.c:namec()' be treated > > with a file flag ? > >i'm not sure that /srv/sharp would be a great idea. after all, isn't >the idea of this to lose the distinction between user and kernel >devices, and to be able to arrange things arbitrarily for a given >process? True. In the scheme i'm thinking off, there is no distinction between user and kernel device. In fact, I'd like to move all the device to user mode. But i still haven't find how to move #p or #s to user mode. Finally i think that some device have to be kernel device. In fact I'd like to build a kind of a microkernel without the task/thread stuff, but entierly based on channels (ports) capabilities and 9p2000. >after all, it might be quite reasonable, in some circumstances, to >allow a process access to #S but deny it to #p. I think capabilities would help here. >in the scheme i'm thinking of, the exceptions in namec() would >go, along with RFNOMNT. Due to capabilities, in my scheme there is no need to have RFNOMNT too. Philippe. From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:45:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee9e60b2_97b1_11d8_9095_00304828b574_12491; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C050345CC8 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee6b3534_97b1_11d8_8289_00304828b574_12488; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1F4FA7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCCE7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee2c6a3e_97b1_11d8_9c77_00304828b574_12483; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24A4345CC9 for ; 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Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> Subject: [9fans] local 9p multiplexing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:44:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > Now suppose /srv could only post 9P services, meaning that when > > multiple people opened the same service, the kernel would take > > care of multiplexing their 9P requests appropriately so that the > > original poster would only see a single logical 9P conversation. > > this, presumably, would mean that the kernel would have to know about > srv files, and translate all reads and writes through them as 9p > messages (after all there's no guarantee that something posted into > /srv, although a 9p service, has been either mounted or exported on > the local machine, and we need to multiplex reads correctly). this is all local. i just said that srv is now a 9p-service-only tree. everything posted there *must* serve 9p. if you post an fd and someone else opens it, the kernel brokers the 9p messages going across it so that other people who open it see an independent conversation while the guy who posted sees a single conversation in which everything is multiplexed properly. this requires no extra processes -- a write to a server side fd goes through to the server and a write to the client side fd goes through to the client. it requires routing during the read/write, but nothing else. > it could know by looking at the device letter, or by a mode bit in the > file. let's assume the latter, as it's more general (and reducible to > the former). the kernel knows whether a file is in /srv because the kernel serves that tree. it has to, so that the correct read/write/open/close etc. routines get called. > say we've imported a namespace from a remote machine. in the > namespace is a /srv directory, containing various exported 9p > services. we wish to mount one of them. let's hold off on that. i said i didn't know how to deal with networks properly. thinking about this a little more, i think i see what you were getting at in your message. i think what i described and what you described are almost completely orthogonal. i'll expand on your stuff in a separate message. > > I don't see how to do authentication in user space and keep the > > "reductions" of things like fd = exportfs("/a"); mount(fd, "/b", MREPL);. > > i'm not sure one needs to try. > > i think you're maybe glossing over something here too. > one doesn't usually do the above, but actually: > > exportfs(p[0], "/a"); mount(p[1], "/b", MREPL); > > where p[0] and p[1] are two ends of a pipe. > presumably the kernel would have to know about the pipe > device as a special case? only if you think exportfs should be told where to write if the system call is really fd = exportfs("/a"), there is no pipe. that's also why there are no extra processes. in order to implement /bin/exportfs you'd have to get the export fd and then ferry bytes between stdin/stdout and the fd. if you really care you could put a generic trampoline(fd1, fd2) into the kernel. > > Suppose the kernel were a good 9P multiplexor instead > > of a cleaner Unix kernel with devmnt hanging on the side. > > i think what i like least about this scheme is that you need lots of > extra processes... all of which are unnecessary. there are no extra processes. all of which are bright purple, or anything else you like. there aren't any. > one thing that's really nice about the current kernel scheme is that a > file operation at user level is just a function call in the kernel. > you already have the process context around, and that's what gets used. this can still be the case. > if devices speak in terms of 9p messages, you're talking about a > stream of 9p messages. many processes write messages into the stream, > and then you need many processes at the other side to deal with the > concurrency (as exportfs does). you're dealing with a many-one-many > mapping, rather than the current simple one-one scheme, not to mention > the additional data copying, context switches and fid/tag counting. you're ignoring things i said. inside the kernel there is only some data structure representation like Fcall or lib9p's Req. no need for copying as the messages move around inside (unless you're worrying about the cost of copying pointers). there might be context switches depending on how you implement things, but they would all be between kernel processes so they'd be cheap. fid/tag manipulation is free. the "other side" can have as many processes as it needs to handle the concurrency. the handler for a read from /dev/user could handle the request immediately. the handler for a read from /dev/cons might put it on a queue of pending reads. in general there's no need for one-process-per-writer unless you're assuming the devices slip back into function calls at some point instead of dealing with the 9p requests directly. again, remember that this is all local. i'm not claiming to solve any problems with doing 9p over 9p or over a network. > > What I don't really understand about your scheme is how much > > you're getting from an auth file being authentication-related and > > how much you're getting from it being the beginning of a 9P > > connection. > > it's crucial that you can do the authentication, as it allows a > service to multiplex several different users onto the same connection. > as charles likes to point out, the "important" authentication is the > kind that Styx uses - i.e. end to end. however, once you've > connected to a party you trust (to some extent) to act on your behalf, > it's still useful to be able to authenticate yourself to third parties > through them. > > to some services the identity of the user doesn't matter. others rely > on it totally (for instance /proc). > > i'm not sure exactly what form local authentication should take though. i agree with all this. > [you can defer the decision though: suppose that all kernel > level devices believed whatever user was named in the attach message. > then imagine a device which, given an auth fd, produced another > auth fd that required the client to satisfy certain authentication criteria > - once satisfied, an attach would attach to the original device, > as the correct (and authenticated) user. in this way you could push > whatever authentication scheme you liked onto all the kernel devices > available in /srv] neat. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:55:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a348eae_97b3_11d8_8a49_00304828b574_20087; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0EA345CF7 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5a031586_97b3_11d8_9939_00304828b574_20084; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:57 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 20C537580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB537580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 59c4d8e8_97b3_11d8_8187_00304828b574_20081; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5940345CF7 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 591c0268_97b3_11d8_8b56_00304828b574_20078; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:55:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9138219FD5; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73D8B19DB1; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:55:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98A5419F37; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 321FF19DB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:55:39 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>it's crucial that you can do the authentication, as it allows a >>service to multiplex several different users onto the same connection. >>as charles likes to point out, the "important" authentication is the >>kind that Styx uses - i.e. end to end. however, once you've >>connected to a party you trust (to some extent) to act on your behalf, >>it's still useful to be able to authenticate yourself to third parties >>through them. i say that because the end to end one is the only one that gives you reliable data. there's not much point doing the others, from the third party server's point of view. if you authenticate to a server, and use that to connect to another server, that server must trust the first server to speak for every user it sees on the connection, and it must know that. that's because the multiplexing system is in a position to manipulate fids on the connection, including the attach fids carefully associated with an `authenticated' user by an afid. having made the association, how does it really know who uses which? I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. it doesn't even require a modified kernel, just control of the messages on the connection. thus the multiplexing might as well be just as in Styx: different user names [whatever that might mean in a larger context] label the Tattach messages on the connection. From russcox@gmail.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 03:56:27 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6bb2b4bc_97b3_11d8_94a9_00304828b574_20859; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D410345CF9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b7d9fde_97b3_11d8_89a3_00304828b574_20856; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7F5D67580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E187580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6b3cf876_97b3_11d8_8a5f_00304828b574_20853; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B63345CF9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6a6d30be_97b3_11d8_812b_00304828b574_20850; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:56:25 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 29B7019FDA; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3DA0319FD6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6DC5519FD1; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 7224C19DB1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so10789cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.71 with SMTP id u71mr21793cwc; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> Subject: [9fans] remote 9p multiplexing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:54:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > say we've imported a namespace from a remote machine. in the > namespace is a /srv directory, containing various exported 9p > services. we wish to mount one of them. okay, let's return to this. in my scheme, since the remote kernel is doing appropriate multiplexing, we don't need to do anything special to use the remote /srv/foo. (actually, we the local machine don't need to do anything special even now, but that's because exportfs the program is invoking itself recursively behind our back.) of course, since /srv/foo is treated like a normal file, there is message encapsulation and the like, which does incur extra latency. i never claimed to handle this case. i didn't realize you were claiming to handle it. it seems what's needed to handle it is some way to introduce a new conversation into an extant 9P connection. david mazieres suggested such a thing a few years ago when he interned at bell labs. in his scheme there was (approximately) a Ttunnel/Rtunnel message that took the place of Topen/Ropen for 9P connections, and the net effect was that the 9P connection just opened could use the original 9P connection for its messages rather than encapsulate them in Tread/Rread/Twrite/Rwrite responses. i never understood the details (i'm not sure anyone did). i think the crux of your message is that Tauth/Rauth can be coerced to let us pull this off, because it introduces a separate "attach space". i'm going to try to paraphrase: when afd != -1, the fd in mount(fd, afd, where, flags) is redundant. if you mounted 9P services by opening them, running authentication, and then calling mount(afd, where, flags), we could adopt the convention that the 9P connection for the mount is the one where afd is a fid. then Tauth invents a fid out of thin air to bootstrap a connection, but if the fid has been gotten by open, mounting this fid can be handled without further encapsulation. now *that* is cool. the auth fids are really an indirection layer and Tauth/Rauth just provides a base. of course, they'd more properly be called something else, since this has nothing to do with authentication and everything to do with setting up the context of a new 9P conversation. maybe session fids. that's really neat. it separates the setup from the actual session in a nice clean way without the clumsy 9P1 kernel hack and without any encapsulation overhead. sorry about being so dense i didn't get it the first time around. russ From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 04:39:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7f49ac82_97b9_11d8_8145_00304828b574_28919; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB8B344E45 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7f18f59c_97b9_11d8_95b5_00304828b574_28916; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 598C87580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090177580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7ed95ec8_97b9_11d8_8508_00304828b574_28913; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79E4344E45 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e0a1672_97b9_11d8_98a2_00304828b574_28906; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:39:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9C0E419FE6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C7BF019FD9; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:39:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CB90119D5D; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0D19E19ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <330f966d8a62b319b89a160f356b2ce9@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] remote 9p multiplexing From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:44:32 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > when afd != -1, the fd in mount(fd, afd, where, flags) is redundant. > if you mounted 9P services by opening them, running authentication, > and then calling mount(afd, where, flags), we could adopt the convention > that the 9P connection for the mount is the one where afd is a fid. yes. > then Tauth invents a fid out of thin air to bootstrap a connection, > but if the fid has been gotten by open, mounting this fid can be > handled without further encapsulation. actually, i was imagining that you would not be allowed to open an auth file, only Tauth it. the open doesn't really give you much and you've got to call auth to provide the uname and aname before you can read or write it anyway. this does change current 9p semantics (currently the auth fid must not currently exist; in this scheme it could optionally exist), but in a compatible way. > of course, they'd more properly be called something else, since this > has nothing to do with authentication and everything to do with > setting up the context of a new 9P conversation. maybe session fids. i'm not sure - i think auth fids is *exactly* what they are. by walking to it and calling fauth(2) on it, you're introducing yourself (authenticating) to whatever's at the other end. the 'A' that you might see in an ls -l listing could also stand for "attach"... but they'd be potentially useful even without doing the attach, as a way for a client to ascertain the identity of a party at the other end. > that's really neat. it separates the setup from the actual session > in a nice clean way without the clumsy 9P1 kernel hack and > without any encapsulation overhead. there's more to it than that. it makes possible some useful 9p server designs that were not previously possible. for instance, it becomes much more reasonable to implement a web browser in the namespace. the server could provide a namespace for a single web page, holding the data for the page, but also an auth file for each link in the page. mounting the auth file would provide the namespace for the page linked to. (https authentication falls out naturally). deciding which web pages to keep current (i.e. mounted) is a matter for the client, as it should be. it also makes sense for servers that wish to provide multiple instances of a service, but don't care about letting clients see all the instances that have been created, in the same way that the #| device does. to take a specific example, the Inferno grid scheduler program exports a single namespace to all its clients. one of those files, when opened, represents a single worker instance to the server. if i'm on a multi-process machine, i can open the file several times, and the server sees several workers. the difficulty comes when i wish to send an abort message to a particular worker - the same worker might have opened the "stoptask" file, but i have no way of associating the two opens, so i am forced to provide one such file for each attach, and let the client do the multiplexing. the current alternative would be to provide a "clone"-style interface, with one directory for each worker, each containing two files. not only does that make the server implementation more complex (have to be able to enumerate all clients, have to allocate appropriate qid space, etc) but it also makes the client interface more complex (open clone file, read id, etc, vs. open file). the auth file interface gives me the best of both worlds: i could provide an auth file for workers to attach to, giving each a namespace containing the two files (and any others necessary), and wouldn't have to worry about enumerability or qid space at all. oh yes, it also seems a natural representation for dynamically loaded device drivers. and it can solve world hunger too. From rminnich@lanl.gov Tue Apr 27 20:06:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 04:52:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a5be628_97bb_11d8_83fb_00304828b574_7154; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0963450BE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4a18f638_97bb_11d8_82be_00304828b574_7151; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 629977580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECBC7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49dba616_97bb_11d8_9bea_00304828b574_7148; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266903450BE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 49292e14_97bb_11d8_8ece_00304828b574_7145; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:52:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1DE8019E2B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7D23819E2B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7366519E42; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC9C19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYik026106 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYp9008944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYwO015229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if devices speak in terms of 9p messages, you're talking about a > stream of 9p messages. This part is a tiny bit worrisome for me but I didn't want to bring it up. Messages to kernel bits reminds me of Mach somehow. What happened to Mach was sometimes referred to as "message death". ron From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 05:07:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6196964c_97bd_11d8_9635_00304828b574_18993; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DE73450FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 616561da_97bd_11d8_8958_00304828b574_18990; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 791987580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3205D7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6127901c_97bd_11d8_871e_00304828b574_18987; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B86E3450FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 60805004_97bd_11d8_8248_00304828b574_18984; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:07:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C4B319D51; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62FCD19BD6; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:07:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 80B5F19B13; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 89886199EB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4842a6629d0318a83274fbbf07c64c2c@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:12:29 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > from the third party server's point of view. > if you authenticate to a server, and use that to connect to another server, > that server must trust the first server to speak for every user it sees on > the connection, and it must know that. i think this is a reasonably common scenario. > thus the multiplexing might as well be just as in Styx: different user > names [whatever that might mean in a larger context] label the Tattach > messages on the connection. that assumes, i think, that authentication is homogeneous throughout that system (i.e. that one agent can authenticate all users uniformly at the outer edge of the system). i'm not sure that's realistic. in the simplest case, the first server is the kernel, and i find it reasonable to trust it to speak for every user i authenticate as. if i trust the kernel, why shouldn't i trust other services i have started up, in the same way? there are occasions when i might extend the same level of trust to other machines too. from the server's point of view, it should not trust in-band authentications along a channel that has not been end-to-end authenticated in a way that it trusts. that's a matter for whoever is arranging the topology of the system, surely? From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 05:26:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0a518e48_97c0_11d8_968a_00304828b574_2775; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126E5344487 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 09c337ec_97c0_11d8_915f_00304828b574_2767; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B48D27580FE; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B4B7580FD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0968a2dc_97c0_11d8_914d_00304828b574_2763; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:26:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71FF344487 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:22:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d54594e_97bf_11d8_8a59_00304828b574_31167; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:22:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F39B31A00F; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A2A21A00B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:22:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5DF9E19FFF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A8DE19D22 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426202214.0ae43d80@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:27:09 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I think capabilities would help here. the namespace is a capability. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 27 20:06:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 05:41:15 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fff33e8_97c2_11d8_896b_00304828b574_19048; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215DE34455A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fc36caa_97c2_11d8_9098_00304828b574_19043; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4EEA87580FB; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:14 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C15758100 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e47bf2a_97c2_11d8_9cd8_00304828b574_18987; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:41:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7753444FC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:39:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e25dfd02_97c1_11d8_8efb_00304828b574_17084; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:39:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E02D91A014; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3C18E1A002; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C1C7A1A006; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 75C1D1A002 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: <4842a6629d0318a83274fbbf07c64c2c@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:40:25 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: >>that's a matter for whoever is arranging the topology of the system, >>surely? no, i don't think it is. i think what happens is that Tauth/Rauth seems cute and people keep trying to find a reason to keep it, but it's useful for only the reason it was introduced: to take the authentication out of the protocol proper for those file servers (/sys/src/fs) that don't do authentication otherwise. From forsyth@terzarima.net Tue Apr 27 20:06:26 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 05:49:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 43b0744e_97c3_11d8_9c01_00304828b574_25430; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C23C345148 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 434f82a6_97c3_11d8_95e1_00304828b574_25426; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0E9D27580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B39D7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 42e84faa_97c3_11d8_9dcd_00304828b574_25423; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7AC345148 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 41eb3414_97c3_11d8_9001_00304828b574_25420; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:49:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 036E11A015; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 760811A01A; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:49:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4B6281A006; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C003A1A009 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Charles Forsyth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rfoaliolfcuvslrgroecnbaiea" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:49:44 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rfoaliolfcuvslrgroecnbaiea Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Messages to kernel bits reminds me of Mach somehow. What happened to Mach >>was sometimes referred to as "message death". that was bad. i might have chosen the 4.2bsd design document. not messaging but a similar feel of much mechanism more complex than that it replaces (which is all that anyone ends up using anyway for some reason). nevertheless, there have been good message passing systems; it's just that (perhaps) Mach wasn't one of them. i admit it was never one of my favourites. still, to focus on the export aspect is possibly sensible since that apparently has been surprisingly troublesome all round. even there, part of the problem i think has been the usual one of gradually working out what the specification actually was, incrementally. eventually, one reaches a stage where it all seems quite obvious, but by that time, so many people have jaundiced opinions about it. --upas-rfoaliolfcuvslrgroecnbaiea Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 26 20:51:24 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A67619FE7; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7CCB019E2B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7366519E42; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3AC9C19C1E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay2.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYik026106 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay2.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYp9008944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3QJpYwO015229 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:34 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if devices speak in terms of 9p messages, you're talking about a > stream of 9p messages. This part is a tiny bit worrisome for me but I didn't want to bring it up. Messages to kernel bits reminds me of Mach somehow. What happened to Mach was sometimes referred to as "message death". ron --upas-rfoaliolfcuvslrgroecnbaiea-- From rog@vitanuova.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 08:26:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 14c220fe_97d9_11d8_8831_00304828b574_32258; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:26:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EAC344603 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:26:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 145ad7dc_97d9_11d8_8a35_00304828b574_32182; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:26:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id BEEC17580FE; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:25:59 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E9A75810B for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:25:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 10789762_97d9_11d8_83de_00304828b574_32108; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:25:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A6134467E for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:21:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 80d40c7c_97d8_11d8_8840_00304828b574_27531; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:21:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F26FD1A020; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E2BE719E59; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:21:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 88E9F1A007; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D841519E59 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:26:30 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > [Tauth/Rauth is] useful for only the reason it was introduced: to take > the authentication out of the protocol proper for those file servers > (/sys/src/fs) that don't do authentication otherwise. i think that's a bit strong. if i am connecting to a service through a mutually trusted third party (a CPU server, for example) then might this kind of authentication not be useful? from the service's point of view, only the third party has the capability to mix up users. from my point of view, only the third party can act illegitimately on my behalf. since we both trust the third party, surely there's no problem? as an example, consider the inferno demo grid (*). it's providing a range of services through a single Styx connection. with the current scheme, all services have to be part of the same user domain. however the "spree" games service allows a different set of users. using Tauth/Rauth, that service could authenticate a remote user appropriately through the same connection, rather than needing to listen on a separate tcp port as currently. i'm probably missing something, but that sounds reasonable (and useful) to me. * http://www.vitanuova.com/solutions/grid/demogrid.html, for those interested. From schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu Tue Apr 27 20:06:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 10:45:59 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a210b7a0_97ec_11d8_81e5_00304828b574_24672; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1680C34570A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1d99e8c_97ec_11d8_8991_00304828b574_24669; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EE0687580F9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:58 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CBC97580FA for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a194e94a_97ec_11d8_9dbe_00304828b574_24666; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBF834570A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a0e8a676_97ec_11d8_8aa8_00304828b574_24657; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 699DB1A02F; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ADED19DFF; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:45:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0799719DE2; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from galapagos.bx.psu.edu (galapagos.bx.psu.edu [128.118.201.21]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id B6F581A001 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21601 invoked by uid 991); 27 Apr 2004 01:44:13 -0000 From: Scott Schwartz To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea Message-ID: <20040427014413.GA21542@bio.cse.psu.edu> References: <499f328d8dc6462edbadb7e4894feaf8@vitanuova.com> <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05f311ed4273f9fdadc5f3453a807fed@plan9.escet.urjc.es> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:13 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 09:57:05AM +0200, Fco. J. Ballesteros wrote: > But this could be done by arranging the the final clients to talk to the > actual servers, without resorting to proxy places. But this would require > changing the name space semantics. We do that for Plan B, but don't know > how it would fit with Plan 9. To make it more clear what I mean, > one way to do it would be to make all 9P servers become network addressable, > then change the way the ns is printed so that a user could reproduce the > ns from any other place in the network. Without understanding all the details, it seems like that breaks a feature of Plan 9, namely that namespaces work somewhat like lexical scoping, where some things just plain aren't visible from the outside. It seems like exporting a local name could be thought of somewhat like a functional closure, where you'd have some opaque cookie to be shared with friends that referred directly to the things in your scope, but that you couldn't generate from outside the namespace. If I recall correctly, Amoeba did something like that. Also, Prospero had some idea of closure, but I can't remember how that actually worked. From matthias@mteege.de Tue Apr 27 20:06:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 14:46:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46fc4966_980e_11d8_8a7d_00304828b574_14894; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331DF3457ED for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 46caccce_980e_11d8_8122_00304828b574_14891; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 156F37580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17AF7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 468afb26_980e_11d8_8df0_00304828b574_14888; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52B83457ED for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45e05482_980e_11d8_8fdc_00304828b574_14885; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:46:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 114C01A05D; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F58B1A058; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 661AF1A058; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E31E51A05A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 80963 invoked by uid 66); 27 Apr 2004 05:45:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 31127 invoked by uid 0); 27 Apr 2004 05:44:46 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 05:44:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 96166 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2004 05:44:46 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 05:44:46 -0000 Message-ID: <7fbeb9691452f2fe78bfcfe96d743df7@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426194552.0ae41c40@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:43:51 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon Apr 26 18:14:57 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > >I have a second vmware running. It is a p9 cpu/auth server. > > Are both running the same filesystem ? Hmm, both are connected to my fileserver. > Ok. Could you test my script with both your p9 terminal vm and p9 > cpu/auth ? I suggest you to rename aux/vmware and replace it with my > script. I'll try it but on the cpu server aux/vmware is not started via cuprc as default. First I replace aux/vmware in termrc with your script on the terminal. Matthias From matthias@mteege.de Tue Apr 27 20:06:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 15:16:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 77410496_9812_11d8_998f_00304828b574_13529; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C4E3455BC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 770acc46_9812_11d8_982b_00304828b574_13526; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 10D267580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFC17580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76d08126_9812_11d8_8a69_00304828b574_13523; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE963455BC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76255bf2_9812_11d8_9ff7_00304828b574_13520; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:16:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 866F31A068; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 73A981A056; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:16:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E22701A05F; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7E80119B2E for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 81309 invoked by uid 66); 27 Apr 2004 06:15:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 31258 invoked by uid 0); 27 Apr 2004 06:10:37 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 06:10:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 97801 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2004 06:10:37 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 06:10:37 -0000 Message-ID: <01caec25b4654095476081c48e73388b@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426194552.0ae41c40@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:09:42 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Mon Apr 26 18:14:57 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > Ok. Could you test my script with both your p9 terminal vm and p9 > cpu/auth ? I suggest you to rename aux/vmware and replace it with my > script. Ok, I put your script in the termrc and see the messages at boottime. If I enabled c/p in the vm I can copy and paste trough the vm (rio, sam) but not between rio and sam. If I disable c/p in vm I can snarf and paste between rio and sam and acme work to but I cant copy from outside (which maybe ok). Matthias From nemo@lsub.org Tue Apr 27 20:06:32 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 15:44:55 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 64941a46_9816_11d8_9f4c_00304828b574_3944; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53F4345802 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 645ee7d6_9816_11d8_8076_00304828b574_3941; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B225A7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3297580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 642709a6_9816_11d8_8f48_00304828b574_3938; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EF3345802 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 637da2d0_9816_11d8_9184_00304828b574_3935; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:44:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DB1DC1A07C; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D4C9519D1A; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:44:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7EE2C1A06D; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 351111A05A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <20040427014413.GA21542@bio.cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:43:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Without understanding all the details, it seems like that breaks a > feature of Plan 9, namely that namespaces work somewhat like lexical > scoping, where some things just plain aren't visible from the outside. > It seems like exporting a local name could be thought of somewhat like > a functional closure That's interesting. I think that it would be like you say only if the mechanism is missused. The net effect of doing what I say would be like evaluating the NS until the point when the entries resolve right to the providers. Not what amoeba did. From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 16:43:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a30a42b6_981e_11d8_8321_00304828b574_25527; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C01734497E for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2d49c1a_981e_11d8_9789_00304828b574_25524; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 705DE7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0473C7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a27ff390_981e_11d8_9aa3_00304828b574_25521; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A3C34497E for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a1d17982_981e_11d8_91cc_00304828b574_25518; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:43:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A3A6619EA6; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id F253F1A085; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:43:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5E9CC19E8C; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pm-mx.noos.fr (pm-mx6.mgn.net [195.46.220.208]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2201219C42 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noos.fr (pm-mnet6.mgn.net [195.46.220.215]) by pm-mx.noos.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id BB54326F2C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:42:24 +0200 (MEST) X-Mailbox-Line: From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 09:42:24 2004 Received: from smtp.noos.fr (smtp.noos.fr [212.198.2.116]) by pm-mnet6.mgn.net with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:42:24 (MEST) Received: (qmail 8338 invoked by uid 0); 27 Apr 2004 07:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ntmail.noos.fr) ([195.132.21.231]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.116 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; 27 Apr 2004 07:42:24 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040427093624.0aca10b0@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426202214.0ae43d80@pop.noos.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:44:31 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 22:27 26/04/04, you wrote: > > I think capabilities would help here. > >the namespace is a capability. Yes. But devices are not in that namespace. Every process has access to #, hence the need to have RFNOMNT and exceptions in namec(). Without #, there is no need to have both exceptions in namec and RFNOMNT. Regards, Philippe. From nemo@lsub.org Tue Apr 27 20:06:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 17:14:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f87b8a9e_9822_11d8_866f_00304828b574_18427; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D143456BF for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f84b7dae_9822_11d8_9141_00304828b574_18424; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C993B7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877F07580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f80ff82e_9822_11d8_9ab5_00304828b574_18421; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0FC13456BF for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7687d9c_9822_11d8_8d22_00304828b574_18418; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:14:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E39311A08F; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8869019F34; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:14:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C815C19F34; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C61119D76 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d0dc0ca8e48093c6688a1ca6f81e68d@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] an idea From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426202214.0ae43d80@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:13:25 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > In fact I'd like to build a kind of a microkernel without the task/thread > stuff, but entierly based on channels (ports) capabilities and 9p2000. Get VSTa, it does mostly that (not 9p though). From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 20:06:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 17:53:42 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61f9c846_9828_11d8_8261_00304828b574_24052; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516A73449E0 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 61bce052_9828_11d8_81d7_00304828b574_24043; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:41 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 7D7D075810D; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4D9758109 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5502142c_9828_11d8_8330_00304828b574_23858; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:53:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16122344938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:47:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 917247a2_9827_11d8_8e3e_00304828b574_17136; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:47:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 46C541A0A7; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 258681A0A1; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:47:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8BAAF1A096; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pm-mx.noos.fr (pm-mx4.mgn.net [195.46.220.210]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 24E531A086 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noos.fr (pm-mnet2.mgn.net [195.46.220.219]) by pm-mx.noos.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 1227D27012 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:47 +0200 (MEST) X-Mailbox-Line: From philippe.anel@noos.fr Tue Apr 27 10:46:46 2004 Received: from ntmail.noos.fr (ntmail.noos.fr [195.132.21.231]) by pm-mnet2.mgn.net with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:46 (MEST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040427103925.0431d150@pop.noos.fr> X-Sender: philippe.anel@pop.noos.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Philippe Anel Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <01caec25b4654095476081c48e73388b@mteege.de> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040426194552.0ae41c40@pop.noos.fr> <01caec25b4654095476081c48e73388b@mteege.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:48:52 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: At 08:09 27/04/04, you wrote: >On Mon Apr 26 18:14:57 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > > Ok. Could you test my script with both your p9 terminal vm and p9 > > cpu/auth ? I suggest you to rename aux/vmware and replace it with my > > script. > >Ok, I put your script in the termrc and see the messages at >boottime. If I enabled c/p in the vm I can copy and paste >trough the vm (rio, sam) but not between rio and sam. so, cmd (in button 2 menu) doesn't work in this case ? >If I disable c/p in vm I can snarf and paste between rio and >sam and acme work to but I cant copy from outside (which >maybe ok). Ok. But if someone has the vmwarefs sources, it would be better to fix the bug. Philippe. >Matthias From a.b@email.cz Tue Apr 27 20:06:33 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 18:19:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 077ad8de_982c_11d8_8787_00304828b574_12510; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7D63456B7 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 07492104_982c_11d8_9f04_00304828b574_12507; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6CB887580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C4B7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0708ff98_982c_11d8_999e_00304828b574_12504; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3875E3456B7 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 065ebcc2_982c_11d8_859b_00304828b574_12499; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:19:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2EB2F1A0B1; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BB4F21A0A3; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:19:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu. Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0A2761A0A4; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tajfun.atc.cz (email2.atc.cz [62.168.57.102]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 1D8C91A073 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu.>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:18:06 -0400 (EDT) X-atco-email: a.b@email.cz Received: from www.email.cz by smtp.email.cz with SMTP; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:18:05 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <408E254D.000001.30248@db1.email.atc> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu.> From: X-mailer: ATC ORGANIZER v3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: [9fans] reading plan9 kernel sources Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:18:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: hi! can you give some instructions for studying plan9 kernel sources. where to start reading: ioinit, meminit, confinit.....? thank to all. sasa babic (a.b@email.cz) _________________________________________________________________________= _______ B L E S K O V =C1 Z P R =C1 V A: slevy a=BE 50% v internetov=E9 elektrop= rodejn=EC www. eProton .cz - b=EDl=E9 zbo=BE=ED, elektronika, foto, mobil= y=20 http://www.email.cz/eproton From davel@anvil.com Tue Apr 27 20:06:34 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 18:55:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 100fc1f8_9831_11d8_8b2b_00304828b574_9616; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419513458E2 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0fc29e0a_9831_11d8_8b91_00304828b574_9613; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2404E7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38D67580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0f674c6c_9831_11d8_9af3_00304828b574_9610; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7393458E2 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0e842e28_9831_11d8_8c40_00304828b574_9607; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 332E21A0B9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0F421A0A9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6307B1A0BE; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 00E761A0C2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id DF78E363; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:52:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD82C340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:52:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:52:40 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-f5g7y8lfqe3kk4eni3uO" Message-Id: <1083059460.27747.263.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Subject: [9fans] 9conlon ... Joining instructions, info and local map Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:51:01 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: --=-f5g7y8lfqe3kk4eni3uO Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit European 2004 Plan9 Conference:-). Dates: 15-16th May Times: 9:30 to 5:30 Venue: Union Chapel, Compton Terrace, London N1 2UN. Entrance: "Studio Theatre" in Compton Avenue (see map). Highbury and Islington Station serves * Tube: Victoria Line, * Rail: WAGN (Luton Airport etc.) North London Link Local map attached. 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ZXIKPDwgL1NpemUgMTQgL1Jvb3QgMSAwIFIgL0luZm8gMiAwIFIKPj4Kc3RhcnR4cmVmCjY5NDQK JSVFT0YK --=-f5g7y8lfqe3kk4eni3uO-- From matthias@mteege.de Tue Apr 27 20:06:35 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 20:01:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 469ba8d2_983a_11d8_8206_00304828b574_3481; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E46344BFE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 466a157e_983a_11d8_88c4_00304828b574_3478; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4DC7F7580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048F67580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 462ad346_983a_11d8_86be_00304828b574_3475; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190E8344BFE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 45806c62_983a_11d8_9776_00304828b574_3472; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:01:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 453FB1A0E7; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9DE271A0BB; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:01:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F35F1A0CD; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from one.mteege.de (one.mteege.de [81.2.131.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A97481A0BB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 85142 invoked by uid 66); 27 Apr 2004 11:00:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 32723 invoked by uid 0); 27 Apr 2004 10:59:40 -0000 Received: from gic.mteege.de (HELO mteege.de) (192.168.153.10) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 10:59:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 17948 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2004 10:59:40 -0000 Received: from loco.mteege.de (HELO loco) (192.168.153.22) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 10:59:40 -0000 Message-ID: <188da7218219ace91d68e8b8dfb4719c@mteege.de> From: Matthias Teege To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Get the message number (aux/vmware fix ?) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040427103925.0431d150@pop.noos.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: matthias@mteege.de List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:58:44 0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Tue Apr 27 09:09:50 GMT 2004, philippe.anel@noos.fr wrote: > >trough the vm (rio, sam) but not between rio and sam. > > so, cmd (in button 2 menu) doesn't work in this case ? It works, but only for "external" content. " paste" paste content from outside to sam. Snarf/Paste between rio and sam doesn't work and snarf/paste in acme doesn't work to. If I disable c/p in the vmware vm or disable vmwarefs completly, then I can snarf/paste between rio and sam or run snarp/paste in acme but I can't copy from outside to rio, sam or acme. Snarf/Paste between rio windows work in any case. Matthias From mlistlev@gamebox.net Wed Apr 28 20:31:19 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 21:19:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e71616a_9845_11d8_83b1_00304828b574_7571; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 523AF344D0D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e3ce75a_9845_11d8_97bc_00304828b574_7568; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 3DDB67580FA; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85EC7580F9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e0244c4_9845_11d8_84c7_00304828b574_7564; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DF9344D0D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2d521e82_9845_11d8_81cc_00304828b574_7561; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:19:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 17B831A0DD; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2DFA41A0C0; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:19:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EDBB419E86; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from babyruth.hotpop.com (babyruth.hotpop.com [38.113.3.61]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB82F19EC0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gamebox.net (kubrick.hotpop.com [38.113.3.103]) by babyruth.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 188323B2926 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:55:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gamebox.net (merkez-g.sdu.edu.tr [193.140.176.40]) by smtp-2.hotpop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B913B2951 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:55:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <408E50F9.9080707@gamebox.net> From: Levent Yavas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] reading plan9 kernel sources References: <408E254D.000001.30248@db1.email.atc> In-Reply-To: <408E254D.000001.30248@db1.email.atc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:24:25 +0300 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET, RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** a.b@email.cz wrote: > hi! > > can you give some instructions for studying plan9 kernel sources. > where to start reading: ioinit, meminit, confinit.....? in this page: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/plan9.html there is explantation of plan9 3rd edition kernel: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/usr/nemo/9.txt.gz license must be accepted for 3rd edition kernel sources: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/license.html 3rd edition kernel sources: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/plan9jun.tgz From cross@math.psu.edu Wed Apr 28 20:31:20 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 22:00:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb0c272e_984a_11d8_9eae_00304828b574_13812; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4474F3443DE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eadcca9c_984a_11d8_9339_00304828b574_13808; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D7A877580F9; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C9C7580FC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e7858d8e_984a_11d8_8b1b_00304828b574_13749; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D093F344D54 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:53:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eac8f720_9849_11d8_9809_00304828b574_5777; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:53:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C51DD1A0E1; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6732C1A0DE; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 70DB01A0C3; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4DA5519E95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3RCqIgn002917 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i3RCqIP11154 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404271252.i3RCqIP11154@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] telnet From: Dan Cross Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:52:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > Where's Dan anyhow? Have not seen a post from him for a while. > > don't know. i sent a postcard, sealed in a reasonably tamper > proof envelope, to parris island but it got returned. he didn't > give me his unit # etc so i guess they just bounced it, complete > with an impressive set of stamps. > > i've poked around in /adm/users on brahma to see if there > was anyone in there who looked like they might know, but > didn't find anything like. the other choice was to spam > /adm/users which didn't seem like a plan. he's somewhere > in the Corps. > > i asked some other .mil people i know and they couldn't > really help either. i hope he's ok. Yeah, I'm fine. I was gone for three months, but I'm back on leave for a few days, and then shipping off again. For those of you who don't know, I'm also a United States Marine and am on active duty right now. I'll try and do better about staying in touch, which should be feasible starting in late May or early June. - Dan C. From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 28 20:31:20 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Tue Apr 27 22:01:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee4d6e52_984a_11d8_90e4_00304828b574_13851; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:01:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83A63443DE for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee163ee6_984a_11d8_91c6_00304828b574_13845; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1CBA0758105; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1720A7580FC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ea27f432_984a_11d8_9791_00304828b574_13787; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:00:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19ABD34426D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a31ccd1a_984a_11d8_8c0d_00304828b574_11402; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C587B1A0F4; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 262B01A0EB; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:58:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D20E01A0C0; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 25FFF19E95 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BIRy1-00018I-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:45:41 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: , Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 ports churn Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:44:27 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Bengt Kleberg wrote: > Russ Cox wrote: > >> There's a lot of new stuff in the Plan 9 ports tarball/CVS >> but the downside is that I don't know how well it >> builds on systems other than FreeBSD and Linux. > > i have a suggestion on how to make ''9c'' perform as intended on sunos, with sun-cc. the ''uname -p'' change is only there to be consistent with the changes to $OBJTYPE that i have already made in other places. if sun4u is better value than sparc this change should be ignored: *** /tmp/plan9/bin/9c Sat Apr 24 07:03:32 2004 --- /home/eleberg/private/plan9/bin/9c Tue Apr 27 14:30:05 2004 *************** *** 16,22 **** cflags="$ngflags -ggdb" } ! tag="${SYSNAME:-`uname`}-${OBJTYPE:-`uname -m`}-${CC9:-cc}" case "$tag" in *BSD*) usegcc ;; *Darwin*) usegcc --- 16,22 ---- cflags="$ngflags -ggdb" } ! tag="${SYSNAME:-`uname`}-${OBJTYPE:-`uname -p`}-${CC9:-cc}" case "$tag" in *BSD*) usegcc ;; *Darwin*) usegcc *************** *** 45,51 **** case "$tag" in *SunOS*-cc) ! exec $cc -I$PLAN9/include $cflags "$@" | /bin/sed 's/\"\([^\"][^\"]*\)\", line \([0-9][0-9]*\)/\1:\2/g' ;; *) --- 45,51 ---- case "$tag" in *SunOS*-cc) ! exec $cc -I$PLAN9/include $cflags "$@" 2>&1 | /bin/sed 's/\"\([^\"][^\"]*\)\", line \([0-9][0-9]*\)/\1:\2/g' ;; *) From bengt.kleberg@ericsson.com Wed Apr 28 20:31:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 01:13:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e284760e_9865_11d8_8d79_00304828b574_17441; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB2D344F34 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e203b00a_9865_11d8_8c47_00304828b574_17438; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B3E847580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE60D7580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e16add58_9865_11d8_877f_00304828b574_17435; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22952344F34 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e04850cc_9865_11d8_935b_00304828b574_17432; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:13:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63D471A0EC; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 17DA519ACC; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:13:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 36B401A056; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E1B1319BF1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BIUz8-0003sP-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:59:02 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: Ericsson Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: [9fans] plan9ports, mk, using rc as shell Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:57:35 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * X-NAI-Modified: Invalid Header Continuation Line This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070508010706030608020407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit greetings, this is in case anybody is still thinking about the ''sh/rc in mk'' discussion some days ago. i added an environment variable MKSHELL_RC. if set to the full path of rc, mk will use rc to run recipes. note that assignments in the mkfile has not been changed. ie, VAR = `{echo *.c} still works. (yes, that does look like rc syntax, does it not? but it has ''always'' worked) and VAR = asd ^ 123 does not work. bengt --------------070508010706030608020407 Content-Type: text/plain; name="bfile" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bfile" *** unix.c Sat Apr 24 07:03:27 2004 --- /home/eleberg/private/plan9/src/cmd/mk/unix.c Tue Apr 27 17:40:13 2004 *************** *** 16,21 **** --- 16,64 ---- fprint(2, "%s: %r\n", s); } + static void + choose_shell( char* args, int args_are_command ) { + char* mkshell; + char* mkshell_rc; + char* mkshell_name; + + /* if rc path is set, use it */ + mkshell_rc = getenv( "MKSHELL_RC" ) ; + if (mkshell_rc) { + mkshell = mkshell_rc; + mkshell_name = "rc"; + } else { + mkshell = shell; + mkshell_name = shellname; + } + if (args_are_command) { + if(shflags) + execl(mkshell, mkshell_name, shflags, "-c", args, 0); + else + execl(mkshell, mkshell_name, "-c", args, 0); + } else { + if(shflags) + execl(mkshell, mkshell_name, shflags, args, 0); + else + execl(mkshell, mkshell_name, args, 0); + } + mkperror(mkshell); + /* when using plan9 getenv() we need free() + if (mkshell_rc) + free(mkshell_rc); + */ + } + + static void + choose_execshell( char* args ) { + choose_shell( args, 0 ); + } + + static void + choose_pipeshell( char* cmd ) { + choose_shell( cmd, 1 ); + } + void readenv(void) { *************** *** 131,141 **** close(in[1]); if (e) exportenv(e); ! if(shflags) ! execl(shell, shellname, shflags, args, 0); ! else ! execl(shell, shellname, args, 0); ! mkperror(shell); _exit(1); } close(out[1]); --- 174,180 ---- close(in[1]); if (e) exportenv(e); ! choose_execshell( args ); _exit(1); } close(out[1]); *************** *** 196,206 **** } if(e) exportenv(e); ! if(shflags) ! execl(shell, shellname, shflags, "-c", cmd, 0); ! else ! execl(shell, shellname, "-c", cmd, 0); ! mkperror(shell); _exit(1); } if(fd){ --- 235,241 ---- } if(e) exportenv(e); ! choose_pipeshell( cmd ); _exit(1); } if(fd){ *************** *** 308,310 **** --- 343,346 ---- return st.st_mtime; } + --------------070508010706030608020407-- From martin.wyser@inf.ethz.ch Wed Apr 28 20:31:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 01:14:20 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f0567f98_9865_11d8_9174_00304828b574_18183; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D533344F3C for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f01ef136_9865_11d8_84e6_00304828b574_18180; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 68B9C7580FB; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190577580FA for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id efe037f2_9865_11d8_844c_00304828b574_18177; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48F4344F3C for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ef0facc2_9865_11d8_8233_00304828b574_18171; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:14:18 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 578841A112; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C35361A10C; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:14:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 496E519AF0; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 778E519EE2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BIV7J-00045K-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:07:29 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Martin Wyser Message-ID: <408e8452$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETHZ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ramfs, lib9p Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:07:19 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Boys, and of course Girls too: I noticed that there are two ramfs implementations: /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c seems old, because does not use lib9p /sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c seems newer, because does use lib9p Unfortunately, both have bad bugs. I would suggest dumping the old one, and in that spirit started looking at the problems with the newer. I did cd /tmp mkdir ramfs 8c /sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c 8l -o ramfs ramfs.8 ./ramfs -s ramfs mount -c /srv/ramfs /tmp/ramfs unmount /tmp/ramfs mount -c /srv/ramfs /tmp/ramfs #again ls /tmp/ramfs #crashes nicely So I started looking through it, and it looks like the problems are in lib9p. Where to send my findings? Discuss them here? (I checked with sources and found that I am up-to-date). kind regards, Martin With some -D and acid, I got the following information: ----- <-5- Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000' -5-> Rversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000' <-5- Tauth tag 3 afid 211 uname mwyser aname -5-> Rerror tag 3 ename ./ramfs: authentication not required <-5- Tattach tag 3 fid 211 afid -1 uname mwyser aname -5-> Rattach tag 3 qid (0000000000000000 0 d) <-5- Tclunk tag 3 fid 211 -5-> Rclunk tag 3 <-5- Tauth tag 3 afid 208 uname mwyser aname -5-> Rerror tag 3 ename ./ramfs: authentication not required <-5- Tattach tag 3 fid 208 afid -1 uname mwyser aname -5-> Rattach tag 3 qid (0000000000000000 0 d) <-5- Twalk tag 3 fid 208 newfid 212 nwname 0 -5-> Rwalk tag 3 nwqid 0 <-5- Tstat tag 3 fid 212 -5-> Rstat tag 3 stat 'mwyser' '' 'mwyser' 'mwyser' q (0000000000000000 0 d) m 020000000777 at 1083085032 mt 1083085032 l 0 t 0 d 0 <-5- Tclunk tag 3 fid 212 -5-> Rclunk tag 3 panic: D2B called on non-block 18394 (double-free?) (magic 00000000) ramfs 122: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x00004b63 acid: stk() abort()+0x0 /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6 ppanic(p=0x17d5c,fmt=0x17914)+0x152 /sys/src/libc/port/malloc.c:158 D2B(v=0x18394,p=0x17d5c)+0x38 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:944 poolfreel(v=0x18394,p=0x17d5c)+0x20 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:1065 poolfree(p=0x17d5c,v=0x18394)+0x41 /sys/src/libc/port/pool.c:1175 free(v=0x1839c)+0x23 /sys/src/libc/port/malloc.c:228 fsdestroyfile(f=0x18330)+0x29 /usr/mwyser/ramfs/ramfs.c:111 closefile(f=0x18330)+0x23 /sys/src/lib9p/file.c:75 closefid(f=0x1d808)+0x5f /sys/src/lib9p/fid.c:71 closereq(r=0x1d428)+0x77 /sys/src/lib9p/req.c:79 respond(error=0x0,r=0x1d428)+0x31f /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:803 sclunk(srv=0x1306c,r=0x1d428)+0x51 /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:548 srv(srv=0x1306c)+0x1be /sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:702 _post2(v=0x1306c)+0x4f /sys/src/lib9p/_post.c:41 postmountsrv(s=0x1306c,name=0x7fffeff6,mtpt=0x0,flag=0x4)+0x5e /sys/src/lib9p/post.c:19 main(argv=0x7fffefe0,argc=0x0)+0x105 /usr/mwyser/ramfs/ramfs.c:162 _main+0x31 /sys/src/libc/386/main9.s:16 acid: ------ From nemo@lsub.org Wed Apr 28 20:31:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 01:19:44 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b16ca018_9866_11d8_9d81_00304828b574_22067; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790313459AC for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b13ab774_9866_11d8_9492_00304828b574_22064; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 5B94E7580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141497580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0fb9a8a_9866_11d8_908b_00304828b574_22061; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEE63459AC for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b05344f2_9866_11d8_8730_00304828b574_22058; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:19:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5C7911A11A; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50F371A0F7; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:19:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 42FE01A109; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2E0619ACC for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d70bc7a871d4ee7f5614c48a1a42dae@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ramfs, lib9p From: Fco.J.Ballesteros In-Reply-To: <408e8452$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:18:32 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I noticed that there are two ramfs implementations: > /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c seems old, because does not use lib9p > /sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c seems newer, because does use lib9p Surprisingly, the one I'm using is the old one, as reported by src. From rog@vitanuova.com Wed Apr 28 20:31:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 01:27:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3f9c7a4_9867_11d8_9c36_00304828b574_29512; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8053459BB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3b6727e_9867_11d8_8916_00304828b574_29509; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B431F7580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9A87580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d3789850_9867_11d8_9788_00304828b574_29506; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832623459BB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d2d027f6_9867_11d8_9d6f_00304828b574_29503; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:27:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7696919F18; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 50D1A19F18; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:27:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 937CD1A10E; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9B9E019F18 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <99c511594f4894ba7d456adfac2c3862@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ramfs, lib9p From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <408e8452$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:32:53 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > /sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c seems newer, because does use lib9p newer, but not much used. i'd not be surprised if the newer version was written just to test lib9p and wasn't as fully featured as /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c (for instance, the lib9p version doesn't deal with exclusive-use files, as far as i can see). what are the "bad bugs" in the older one? From russcox@gmail.com Wed Apr 28 20:31:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 03:20:14 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8722aa76_9877_11d8_942d_00304828b574_592; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA45B3441C2 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86ebf3d2_9877_11d8_9c4f_00304828b574_586; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:13 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1F4517580F9; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:13 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C867580FA for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 85480192_9877_11d8_9319_00304828b574_394; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:20:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB743442AC for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:19:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b0b5058_9877_11d8_8986_00304828b574_32181; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:19:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C94DF1A133; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 57F391A125; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:19:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 558021A126; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id F41151A128 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so14032cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr30967cwb; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ramfs, lib9p Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <99c511594f4894ba7d456adfac2c3862@vitanuova.com> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:18:53 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: /sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c is intended as a simple example of using lib9p. /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c is intended as a simple example of not using lib9p. neither will go away any time soon. there was a time when i replaced the non-lib9p with the lib9p version, but when we switched protocols, it was helpful to be able to have a toy server to experiment with before lib9p had been fully converted, hence the old one was revived. feel free to fix or identify bugs in both. if you fix bugs you can submit the fixes via patch(1). if you just identify them, you can mail 9trouble and we'll fix them. From esoriano@plan9.escet.urjc.es Wed Apr 28 20:31:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 03:48:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84f330e6_987b_11d8_9b51_00304828b574_22349; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC47345016 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 84c30100_987b_11d8_84ad_00304828b574_22346; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 310877580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA337580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8484f40a_987b_11d8_8f62_00304828b574_22343; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E08345016 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 83dced3c_987b_11d8_90d2_00304828b574_22340; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:48:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC18419ED5; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 11C941A126; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:48:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 37C581A136; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan9.dat.escet.urjc.es (gsyc056.dat.escet.urjc.es [193.147.71.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 29E401A13C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1bd53e9d0e9228e2b493bf0603e333c8@plan9.escet.urjc.es> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: esoriano@plan9.escet.urjc.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Plan9 on a powerbook Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:47:11 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hello, I'm a newbie and it's my first message to the list. While searching how to configure plan9 on a apple tibook 550 (old powerbook model) with Virtual PC 6, I found this message from 9fans list: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.3.89.10205160756.A7269-0100000%40post.cis.smu.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain This modeline DOESN'T work. We have tried with this one in vgadb: include=1152x768 #Titanium 550 (Apple esoriano) defaultclock=75 shb=1096 ehb=1232 ht=1344 shs=1072 vrs=771 vre=777 vt=806 hsync=- vsync=- It works ok. It's the same modeline that it uses for 1024x768 (i think that it has no sense for a real monitor, but it works fine for Virtual PC). The network works fine (at 10Mbps) using the 2114x driver, Cheers, Quique. PD: Sorry, my English is little. From BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu Wed Apr 28 20:31:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 04:13:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0409eaca_987f_11d8_8edd_00304828b574_10023; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3679345A93 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 03d451da_987f_11d8_98ec_00304828b574_10020; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E042F7580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9636A7580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 039a1344_987f_11d8_8e93_00304828b574_10017; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3B0345A93 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 02efeaa4_987f_11d8_9628_00304828b574_10014; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:13:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 747941A142; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4E9C91A13B; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:13:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9DD5E1A126; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx (drax.cu-portland.edu [65.170.220.179]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 1ACBC19DC2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:27 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 References: AAQ7nhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040427T121225Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 on a powerbook To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 19:12:27.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[942ADD90:01C42C8B] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:12:25 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I've had no problem running Plan 9 straight from the CD under VPC6, = running under MacOSX 10.3 on my iBook... it works for me... take a look at = the init stuff for that kernel. However, the 9pcflop kernel used to = install from the cd doesn't work, and the install always crashes when I = tried to install to the VPC hard drive... >>> 4/27/2004 11:47:11 AM >>> Hello, I'm a newbie and it's my first message to the list. While searching how to configure plan9 on a apple tibook 550 (old = powerbook model) with Virtual PC 6, I found this message from 9fans list: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DPine.3.89.10205160756.A7269-0100000%= 40post.cis.smu.edu&oe=3DUTF-8&output=3Dgplain=20 This modeline DOESN'T work. We have tried with this one in vgadb: include=3D1152x768 #Titanium 550 = (Apple esoriano) defaultclock=3D75 shb=3D1096 ehb=3D1232 ht=3D1344 shs=3D1072 vrs=3D771 vre=3D777 vt=3D806 hsync=3D- vsync=3D- It works ok. It's the same modeline that it uses for 1024x768 (i think = that it has no sense for a real monitor, but it works fine for Virtual = PC). The network works fine (at 10Mbps) using the 2114x driver, Cheers, Quique. PD: Sorry, my English is little. From martin.wyser@inf.ethz.ch Wed Apr 28 20:31:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 18:43:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8d0a3b3a_98f8_11d8_8093_00304828b574_32129; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EECBC3455BB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8cd8c708_98f8_11d8_9f51_00304828b574_32126; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D7A5C7580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825457580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8c94fe56_98f8_11d8_89d1_00304828b574_32123; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C833455BB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8be9f272_98f8_11d8_9302_00304828b574_32120; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:43:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E022419E3C; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6EAF119DDA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:43:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EBA3619DDA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk (mercury.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.81]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7F5E219CA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news by mercury.bath.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1BIlS5-0004BQ-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:34:01 +0100 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@cse.psu.edu (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Martin Wyser Message-ID: <408f770d$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch> Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETHZ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <408e8452$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>, <99c511594f4894ba7d456adfac2c3862@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] ramfs, lib9p Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:33:49 GMT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: rog@vitanuova.com wrote: >>/sys/src/lib9p/ramfs.c seems newer, because does use lib9p > > > newer, but not much used. > > i'd not be surprised if the newer version was written just to test > lib9p and wasn't as fully featured as /sys/src/cmd/ramfs.c (for > instance, the lib9p version doesn't deal with exclusive-use files, as > far as i can see). > > what are the "bad bugs" in the older one? > I do ramfs -s -D aux/nfsserver -f /srv/ramfs -c /lib/ndb/nfs.martin aux/portmapper Then I mount on my linux box at /mnt, then ls /mnt, which hangs, but triggers the suicide message below (ramfs protocol trace at end). It comes out that ropen in ramfs.c (the one in cmd/) dereferences a null pointer at ramfs.c:368: 367 r=f->ram; //f->ram is nil 368 if(r->busy) //r is nil too The null pointer is set up by newfid() at ramfs:c:738, the calls to newfid() and ropen() are made at ramfs.c:787. It seems to me that the deadly Topen sent by nfsserver could be a bug (or at least protocol nonsense) too, but even if so, ramfs is supposed to give an Rerror, rather than just crash. There may be easier ways to crash ramfs than using nfsserver, but as mentioned, I did not invest much time, because I want to concentrate on the 'newer' ramfs. After all, using lib9p looks like the future, but it could use some excercising to grow strong, sort of. regards, Martin ramfs 106:<-Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000' ramfs 106:->Rversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000' ramfs 106:<-Tattach tag 1 fid 0 afid -1 uname none aname ramfs 106:->Rattach tag 1 qid (0000000000000000 0 d) ramfs 106:<-Tstat tag 2 fid 0 ramfs 106:->Rstat tag 2 stat '.' 'mwyser' 'mwyser' 'mwyser' q (0000000000000000 0 d) m 020000000775 at 1083164331 mt 1083164331 l 0 t 65535 d -256 ramfs 106:<-Tstat tag 3 fid 0 ramfs 106:->Rstat tag 3 stat '.' 'mwyser' 'mwyser' 'mwyser' q (0000000000000000 0 d) m 020000000775 at 1083164331 mt 1083164331 l 0 t 65535 d -256 ramfs 106:<-Twalk tag 4 fid 0 newfid 1 nwname 0 ramfs 106:->Rwalk tag 4 nwqid 0 ramfs 106:<-Topen tag 5 fid 1 mode 0 ramfs 106: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr=0x0 pc=0x000018f4 From lucio@proxima.alt.za Wed Apr 28 20:31:29 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Wed Apr 28 20:17:41 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9ca74c6_9905_11d8_8ebc_00304828b574_16965; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36D834567A for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a998a0d6_9905_11d8_80ee_00304828b574_16962; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 851857580FA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBBA7580F9 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a959b934_9905_11d8_98a1_00304828b574_16959; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E3F34567D for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8a75c30_9905_11d8_9eb9_00304828b574_16950; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:17:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9AA041A1B6; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 576851A161; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:17:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 98FE619ABD; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.30.44.141]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 503E8199B7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3SBGG04023331 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:16:18 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <6103ecf4bbb8603219ac9042aa38a9cd@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail From: lucio@proxima.alt.za MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Odd binaries Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:16:10 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: cpu% history /n/sources/plan9/386/bin/disk/format Apr 18 05:08:57 SAT 2004 /n/sources/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 40960 [sys] Apr 18 05:08:57 SAT 2004 /n/sourcesdump/2004/0428/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 40960 [sys] Dec 29 22:21:52 SAT 2003 /n/sourcesdump/2004/0417/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91581 [presotto] Sep 26 19:42:05 SAT 2003 /n/sourcesdump/2003/1229/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91621 [rsc] Jun 23 12:30:43 SAT 2003 /n/sourcesdump/2003/0926/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91891 [rsc] Feb 18 05:12:52 SAT 2003 /n/sourcesdump/2003/0623/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91869 [rsc] Dec 13 07:49:16 SAT 2002 /n/sourcesdump/2003/0217/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91866 [rsc] Nov 28 02:25:21 SAT 2002 /n/sourcesdump/2002/1212/plan9/386/bin/disk/format 91438 [rsc] ... is broken, I'm not sure why. I presume it is not the only one. I have produced what seems a much healthier copy off some recent source code: --rwxrwxr-x M 9 sys sys 91595 Apr 28 12:18 /bin/disk/format My fear is that this may be one of many, and that it may have (almost certainly) slipped into the CD distribution. ++L From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 29 11:06:51 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 01:11:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a50913ba_992e_11d8_9abc_00304828b574_15728; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FCC3443A0 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a4bd8c1a_992e_11d8_8a85_00304828b574_15684; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 18E757580FD; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9798D7580FC for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:10:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a2335aa6_992e_11d8_9d7d_00304828b574_15547; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:10:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B7B3444A5 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:05:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e8c5c1b2_992d_11d8_91d2_00304828b574_9675; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:05:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2FBE81A1CB; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2532C1A1BF; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:05:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D45FA1A1BC; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E63D71A0C5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 810A0587; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:03:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876D257B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:03:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11790 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:04:04 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:02:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: If anyone's got any good ideas for individual and/or group Interesting (but cheap) Things That People Can Do In London, please feel free to contribute. I believe we already have one juggler ... Any fire-eaters??? Some things that get my personal approval, having done them with a friend recently: Corny Tourist Stuff: The London Eye (great technology!) The Tower of London and Tower Bridge Museums and Art Galleries: Tate Britain Tate Modern If someone's _really_ nice they can borrow my Tate membership card. Transport Get yourself a 1-day travelcard! The River Bus (or one of the River cruises) is a different way to see London Some things that get my personal disapproval: Eating pretty much anywhere in Central London Most of the tourist-oriented crap: You can see as much from an ordinary bus as a tourbus! Cheers, Dave. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 02:21:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8a0ffef2_9938_11d8_9911_00304828b574_13466; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A6934440E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89d77988_9938_11d8_9db4_00304828b574_13461; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 1C23F758102; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978BC758104 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 86316d70_9938_11d8_9f84_00304828b574_13400; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:21:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83BA344F0E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:07:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 769ee34e_9936_11d8_9c9c_00304828b574_29193; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:07:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 5133B1A1D7; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9F19B1A1BC; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:06:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A55E01A1BC; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5AFA41A1C8 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 56C7D673F3 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:05:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <066701c42d42$952ea4d0$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:02:21 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Some things that get my personal disapproval: > Eating pretty much anywhere in Central London opposite West End Central nick [Saville Row] there's a great restaurant, with a very impressive wine list, called Satoria. in islington, on Upper St [east] there's a great french restaurant, run by french nationals, whose name starts 'La Tro' (my credit card statement truncating it becase it starts with 'brasserie'). anyway, it's near 'the d=F4me'. Taro, in Soho, is noisy, but a good japanese. From ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Thu Apr 29 11:06:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 02:47:57 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ed82ed4_993c_11d8_90d6_00304828b574_1609; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2AA344F7C for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2ea551da_993c_11d8_8d76_00304828b574_1606; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:56 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 9119A7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:56 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F387580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2e6565f2_993c_11d8_932c_00304828b574_1603; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55290344F7C for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2db67c22_993c_11d8_9d94_00304828b574_1599; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:47:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E02AB1A0E1; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D7D511A077; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:47:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 02A1919D53; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ob1.cmich.edu (ob1.cmich.edu [141.209.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 771FB1A05D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by ob1.cmich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3SHhJIk004405 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:43:19 -0400 Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D664C27FD for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:46:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-Spam-Score: 0 () X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9276 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Subject: [9fans] Vmware-4 and Plan 9.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:37:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I am seeing a strange problem. I am trying to boot plan9-cd to boot under vmware-4.0, this is where it stops.. MBR...PBS...Plan 9 from Bell Labs ECLR: 0E00 apm ax=0f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di=ffff ebx=5a43 esi=-1 dev A0 port 1F0 config 427A capabilities 2F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 dev A0 port 170 config 85C4 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 --> hangs I downloaded the vmware.zip fiel too and I see similar behavior except for ECLR value is 0200 Any pointers? -ishwar From hugo@innerghost.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:01:29 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1300e03c_993e_11d8_8a53_00304828b574_12562; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF72E3457FE for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 12cb78ca_993e_11d8_843a_00304828b574_12559; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D0F697580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:28 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8193B7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1286c6bc_993e_11d8_812a_00304828b574_12556; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848203457FF for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 11d1636c_993e_11d8_81d6_00304828b574_12548; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:01:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4CAD1A1CC; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6B4581A186; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7E88B19EED; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haven.innerghost.net (a213-22-117-228.netcabo.pt [213.22.117.228]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 62FDD19EF7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navi.innerghost.net (navi.innerghost.net [10.23.1.11]) by haven.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11E4EDBE7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:59:50 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [9fans] Vmware-4 and Plan 9.. From: Hugo Santos To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: References: <323e1127492657ee8f9f34692a52c7fa@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083175138.12353.2.camel@navi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.5.7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:58:58 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Set VMWare's CD parameter 'legacy mode'. You'll find that option in the VM config. Hugo On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 13:37 -0400, Ishwar Rattan wrote: > I am seeing a strange problem. I am trying to boot plan9-cd to boot > under vmware-4.0, this is where it stops.. > > MBR...PBS...Plan 9 from Bell Labs > ECLR: 0E00 > apm ax=0f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di=ffff ebx=5a43 esi=-1 > dev A0 port 1F0 config 427A capabilities 2F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 > dev A0 port 170 config 85C4 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 > --> hangs > > I downloaded the vmware.zip fiel too and I see similar behavior except > for ECLR value is 0200 > > Any pointers? > > -ishwar > > From vic@plan9.bell-labs.com Thu Apr 29 11:06:52 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:02:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4090490c_993e_11d8_8327_00304828b574_13328; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610DF345804 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4057bb96_993e_11d8_8968_00304828b574_13324; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4E12A7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A777580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 401e9708_993e_11d8_9c0b_00304828b574_13319; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D807345804 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f76480a_993e_11d8_9cd5_00304828b574_13316; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:02:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 63CB91A1D6; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id EC4D11A093; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:02:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C29AF1A1CA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 880871A05D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3488f06bb89845926dd03b7a51251e34@plan9.bell-labs.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Vmware-4 and Plan 9.. From: vic zandy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:01:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > MBR...PBS...Plan 9 from Bell Labs > ECLR: 0E00 > apm ax=0f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di=ffff ebx=5a43 esi=-1 > dev A0 port 1F0 config 427A capabilities 2F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 > dev A0 port 170 config 85C4 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0007 udma 0207 > --> hangs I saw this hang in all my vmware plan 9 virtual machines after I upgraded to vmware 4.5. Somehow the behavior persisted even after I reverted back to vmware 4.0.5. (I was able to boot the plan 9 install floppy image in 4.5.) After I removed from the virtual machines all devices except disk, NIC, and memory I could boot them in 4.0.5 again. From west9@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:42:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bbb83ed2_9943_11d8_9840_00304828b574_16131; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854A93443DB for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb863cde_9943_11d8_991e_00304828b574_16127; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B3A75758109; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:57 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553247580FE for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b905e054_9943_11d8_8699_00304828b574_16095; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC8F34444B for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:34:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7c7ea94_9942_11d8_82ec_00304828b574_8194; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:34:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2B14019EF7; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B05D019CD5; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:34:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B842819CD5; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3F7F19B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g (43.piscataway-15rh16rt-16rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.75.254.43]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004042818334611200mgbfne>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:33:46 +0000 Message-ID: From: west9@worldnet.att.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Need help with acme Mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:35:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Invocation of acme mail fails: /acme/mail/Mail Mail: can't open window ctl file: '/mnt/wsys/new' file does not exist mail, or mail -f mailfile works. Probably I failed to do some setup, or something elementary. Thanks in advance. -Tom From forsyth@terzarima.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:45:07 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2b633598_9944_11d8_9178_00304828b574_19884; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB7E344201 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2aee104c_9944_11d8_8b40_00304828b574_19835; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B1C097580F9; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:04 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EAA375810A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2750940a_9944_11d8_9fc2_00304828b574_19438; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:45:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE53734436A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:42:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d7abe378_9943_11d8_825e_00304828b574_17151; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:42:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE91A19FA1; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2B3A19ED1; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:42:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8768519ED1; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net (spc1-york1-5-0-cust44.leed.broadband.ntl.com [80.0.45.44]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DFBAF19D43 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6aba7ace5023c2d8989c4f500dd79bc9@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need help with acme Mail In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-azkggeombtwmcefdpnjwzhwjrj" Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:41:01 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-azkggeombtwmcefdpnjwzhwjrj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you need to run it inside Acme, if you aren't already. try starting Acme with acme /acme/*/guide then in the frame labelled /acme/mail/guide, click on the word Mail with button 2 --upas-azkggeombtwmcefdpnjwzhwjrj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.cse.psu.edu ([130.203.4.6]) by lavoro; Wed Apr 28 19:33:14 BST 2004 Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D6FB819BFA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 6D5E119CD5; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:34:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B842819CD5; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C3F7F19B46 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g (43.piscataway-15rh16rt-16rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.75.254.43]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004042818334611200mgbfne>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:33:46 +0000 Message-ID: From: west9@worldnet.att.net To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Need help with acme Mail Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:35:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Invocation of acme mail fails: /acme/mail/Mail Mail: can't open window ctl file: '/mnt/wsys/new' file does not exist mail, or mail -f mailfile works. Probably I failed to do some setup, or something elementary. Thanks in advance. -Tom --upas-azkggeombtwmcefdpnjwzhwjrj-- From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:48:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aa0c88ea_9944_11d8_8554_00304828b574_22625; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4DC344451 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a9d9aa06_9944_11d8_8377_00304828b574_22622; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 429517580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:39 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED09C7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a999bd7e_9944_11d8_9e5a_00304828b574_22618; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CFE344451 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a8f16746_9944_11d8_92b0_00304828b574_22615; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:48:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EA88219FDF; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3FDD319ECE; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:48:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 346BE19ED6; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4B51119ECE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BC46037AE6 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:47:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <06cd01c42d50$dd3024d0$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Need help with acme Mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:44:36 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Invocation of acme mail fails: > > /acme/mail/Mail > Mail: can't open window ctl file: '/mnt/wsys/new' file does not exist now this may sound (or is) stupid but it sounds like you need to be running acme, which requires rio, and then you run it from acme. From west9@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 03:57:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2a269fc_9945_11d8_8636_00304828b574_29404; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BEB344FAC for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f2719ed0_9945_11d8_9a6b_00304828b574_29401; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 86FB57580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376CA7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f22cc63e_9945_11d8_9dae_00304828b574_29398; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5112B344FAC for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f185738e_9945_11d8_8e41_00304828b574_29389; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:57:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 654E21A02D; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E9CF619FD4; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:57:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0397D19FD3; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2912819D51 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g (46.piscataway-10rh15rt.nj.dial-access.att.net[12.75.245.46]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004042818560311300d7f9ue>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:56:03 +0000 Message-ID: <124543109248928f60a9a61e5a33a213@yourdomain.dom> From: west9@worldnet.att.net To: west9@worldnet.att.net, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Need help with acme Mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:57:37 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: That was it. Thanks. From eric@willow.nutstreet.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 04:47:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id edb2df74_994c_11d8_9139_00304828b574_3837; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47F134590C for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed81107a_994c_11d8_9783_00304828b574_3834; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B4DDA7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC4F7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed3ffda6_994c_11d8_9643_00304828b574_3831; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A4D34590C for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ec96af26_994c_11d8_8c25_00304828b574_3827; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:47:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 4ACD619EF7; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 21CB319E9B; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:47:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0B75619DDE; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 90A5A19D8C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (adsl-66-137-59-33.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [66.137.59.33]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3SJii33029540 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from willow.nutstreet.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3SJk9P9018735 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:46:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (eric@localhost) by willow.nutstreet.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i3SJk9HP018731 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:46:09 -0500 From: Eric KD5UWL To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing In-Reply-To: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Message-ID: References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:46:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > Interesting (but cheap) Things That People Can Do In London... Just look for the church spires - there should be a pub very nearby, and each pub has varying brands of beers and ales. It's arguably _interesting_ to walk about, sampling one and then the other ... but not necessarily cheap. From boyd@insultant.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 05:33:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5bc42706_9953_11d8_96cc_00304828b574_12398; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D78634501E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b928516_9953_11d8_8f1c_00304828b574_12395; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 60D067580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EFA7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5b52207a_9953_11d8_80e2_00304828b574_12392; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBBC34501E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5aaab448_9953_11d8_8334_00304828b574_12389; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:33:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3360619EA9; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A6C9619DD7; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:33:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 006C619E7B; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3F4D19DD7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BCC667402 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:32:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <070f01c42d5f$7674ddd0$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:28:56 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > but not necessarily cheap. no, given a pint sells from between 2-3 GBP [3,0-4,5 EUR | 3.5-5.3 USD]. From davel@anvil.com Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 06:11:56 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id add6a898_9958_11d8_89dc_00304828b574_10203; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B3134597E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ada0b6f2_9958_11d8_9bab_00304828b574_10200; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:55 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 82B047580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:55 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331667580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ad5bb62e_9958_11d8_81af_00304828b574_10197; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E7B34597F for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id aca5974a_9958_11d8_9bbf_00304828b574_10185; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:11:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1F09F19F2E; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 46D9419ED6; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:11:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 16BAC19EF8; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 2A5EC19EDA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 0F6FA5D5; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:09:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3275CA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:09:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (IDENT:root@rothko [192.168.4.66]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14696 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:10:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083186741.2040.8.camel@rea> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:12:21 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > > Interesting (but cheap) Things That People Can Do In London... > > Just look for the church spires What church spires? They've all been converted into Homeless Drop-In Centres:-). > - there should be a pub very nearby, This is London: there are pubs _everywhere_, independent of churches. > and each pub has varying brands of beers and ales. ... unless they belong to the same chain ... > It's > arguably _interesting_ to walk about, sampling one and then the other Not if your not an alcohol user:-). > but not necessarily cheap. Amen. Dave. From ggm@apnic.net Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 07:18:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 0727234c_9962_11d8_94dc_00304828b574_3619; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AC734599A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06f32c86_9962_11d8_85ea_00304828b574_3616; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D37817580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE7C7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 06b2fc38_9962_11d8_96ae_00304828b574_3613; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E36134599A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 05dfd268_9962_11d8_88bf_00304828b574_3610; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:18:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id DAE3719EF1; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 942C019D6D; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:18:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D098D19E28; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CD0D519D6D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3SMHSxg021236 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:17:29 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Message-Id: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> In-Reply-To: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-99.999 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -99.999 (notspam) BAYES_50,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:17:28 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Sir John Soanes house museum. It has the most eclectic collection of ephemeral architectural remains around. Wonderful! The Horniman Museum. fascinating collection of musical instruments. (The V&A is also a good bet) The reading room of the British Museum is now no longer a library but is at last available to non-ticket holders to see inside. Greenwich is fab. the Harrison chronometers are well worth a look. The Science Museum has the babbage engine and the modern reconstructions and a differential analyser made of meccano. Hendon Air Museum has a Lancaster Bomber. Brick Lane Markets. Everything on sale. including your own kidneys. Camden Lock markets. Kentish Town may still have a very nice Moroccan Restaurant called 'le petit prince' which does its own merguez. Go to the houses of parliment before they build the glass screen across the visitors gallery. The London Underground Museum, and the Post Museum are small but good. Go up St Pauls Cathedral dome. whispering gallery! (huge and works) Also has the tomb of Nelson in the crypt. Also fab view from cupola. Also the London Fire Memorial is worth a climb. (its a shame that he blitz got rid of both Gin Lane, and Grope-cunt street) The best view of the London Skyline is from Primrose Hill, which is near to Camden Lock. Richmond and Kew are fab. Kew House has a very good museum, you can see the Pagoda. The modern HotHouses are ok, but the Paxton original with the giant waterlily is the best. UCL has a museum of Archeology (Flinders Petrie worked there) which has historical weights and measures for the numerically minded. (like ancient egyptian ones) Oh, the V&A costume collection is also fab. The Elgin Marbles in the British Museum. Also a room of Netsuke! Bookshops down Shaftsbury Avenue. Very good Army & Navy surplus store between Euston and Kings Cross. Speakers Corner has the new Memorial to the aussies who died in the wars. And the Barrie memorial for peter pan fanatics. Roman London is on display at the Barbican, both physically, and recreated in the museum as is the fire of london. Greys Inn is fun to walk through. The Courtauld Institute is now down at Kings College. It has a lovely small collection of Art. (anthony blunt, who worked there, specialized in the Poussin collection which is down at the Dulwich Gallery, also lovely) Sir John Soane did the wall alongside the Bank of England. Hawksmoor did a church near by. The Natural History Musuem and the Geology Museum are worth it, but don't try and do them AND the V&A AND the Science Museum in one day. The Science Museum has been ruined by too many re-re-re-organizations. But its still worth a go. (quite apart from the babbage stuff) Windsor Castle is within decent Travelling distance. Clerkenwell has secondhand books on sale from barrows early in the morning. Near the old Communist Party publishing house. BlackFriars Bridge is the scene of one of the worlds first electricity generating systems for public distribution outside of the edison plants in the USA. Walking around is good. -George From michael@vitanuova.com Thu Apr 29 11:06:53 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 07:31:16 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2dea1d6_9963_11d8_9fbd_00304828b574_13516; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690473459B2 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c2abbdde_9963_11d8_8f13_00304828b574_13511; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 4B2E07580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:15 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E977580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c26aac36_9963_11d8_8989_00304828b574_13507; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F643459B2 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id c1bd8984_9963_11d8_9535_00304828b574_13500; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:31:14 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E29F819F07; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 19D7719D8C; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:31:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CEF8019D8C; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com (unknown [62.254.170.97]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 796EE19CF5 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Wed Apr 28 23:35:03 BST 2004 Message-ID: <009401c42db3$9ef5a0b0$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:30:44 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Michaelson" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing > > Oh, the V&A costume collection is also fab. And the V&A plaster gallery - what those victorians could do with a bit of plaster of paris! From ishwar@pali.cps.cmich.edu Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 12:16:50 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7deb9ca_998b_11d8_8def_00304828b574_3308; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC97C34479D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a7a6e8ec_998b_11d8_909b_00304828b574_3305; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D8FAB7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A437580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a76eaedc_998b_11d8_8d07_00304828b574_3302; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0EF34479D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a6c6288e_998b_11d8_9f57_00304828b574_3299; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:16:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 10D121A05C; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id BE5BA19D0A; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:16:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CA7BE19D0A; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ob1.cmich.edu (ob1.cmich.edu [141.209.20.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A16B019BA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cps.cmich.edu (cps3.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.168.43]) by ob1.cmich.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3T3C7Ik009285 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:12:07 -0400 Received: from pali.cps.cmich.edu (pali.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.169.81]) by mail.cps.cmich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DA827EA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:14:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ishwar Rattan To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-Spam-Score: -0.9 () X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Subject: [9fans] Rtl8139 NIC detection.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:06:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: I am trying to install Plan 9 on a celeron box with rtl-8139-10BaseT ether card. The system installs, looks like rtl is detected during boot but is not available after that. I did not find an entry in 9fat plan9.ini too. What is the correct incantation plan9.ini entry of this card (I am assuming that it is supported)? Thanks in advance, -ishwar From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 12:20:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3947c0be_998c_11d8_81c1_00304828b574_6779; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620023447BF for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 38bfbcb4_998c_11d8_9f5b_00304828b574_6768; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id E50707580FD; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBDA758102 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 36ea8cb6_998c_11d8_82ae_00304828b574_6736; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 265E13447BF for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 331c5632_998c_11d8_86f2_00304828b574_6676; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:20:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1313E19EFA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DC56419BA9; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:20:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E739619EFA; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AB24D19D0A for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rtl8139 NIC detection.. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:19:47 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ether0=rtl8139 though it should be found automatically. From jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 12:22:37 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 76c38e64_998c_11d8_9d41_00304828b574_8579; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162D9344737 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 768d80ee_998c_11d8_9360_00304828b574_8576; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id EE6C27580FB; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:36 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40D67580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 764d8fde_998c_11d8_8735_00304828b574_8570; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD65344737 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 75a53bf4_998c_11d8_8664_00304828b574_8564; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:22:36 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AA0DC19DE4; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 8564419D42; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 9E67819DE4; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (outside.cs.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id CCB0519BA9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41497c36a6f707dd9c226b46dd20d821@plan9.bell-labs.com> From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rtl8139 NIC detection.. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:21:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ether0=type=rtl8139 From geoff@collyer.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 12:44:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8eebe100_998f_11d8_89a3_00304828b574_26810; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FC734526A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8ebb7510_998f_11d8_9e29_00304828b574_26805; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 0B2147580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:46 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DDA7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8e7e9fd2_998f_11d8_93c8_00304828b574_26802; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF5F34526A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8dd66a24_998f_11d8_8353_00304828b574_26798; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:44:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B05B11A071; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 83FA519F12; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:44:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 3A06419D42; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from collyer.net (collyer.net [63.192.14.226]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B5CBD19CEA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rtl8139 NIC detection.. From: Geoff Collyer In-Reply-To: <41497c36a6f707dd9c226b46dd20d821@plan9.bell-labs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:43:13 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Sorry; I always forget "type=" until I look at a real plan9.ini. From rminnich@lanl.gov Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 12:55:45 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 174efdd8_9991_11d8_99eb_00304828b574_3253; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0A134528B for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 171d3636_9991_11d8_95a4_00304828b574_3250; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 51FA37580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8B57580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16de4e12_9991_11d8_994e_00304828b574_3247; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF2834528B for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 16348594_9991_11d8_9ba2_00304828b574_3244; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:55:43 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8E9B81A093; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5C99019ED4; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:55:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E66DA19ED4; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (mailwasher.lanl.gov [192.16.0.25]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A5E9019EC9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailwasher-b.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3T3s7ik022354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:54:07 -0600 Received: from ccs-mail.lanl.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3T3s731011166 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:54:07 -0600 Received: from maxroach.lanl.gov (maxroach.lanl.gov [128.165.250.187]) by ccs-mail.lanl.gov (8.12.10/8.12.10/(ccn-5)) with ESMTP id i3T3s7wO012851 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:54:07 -0600 From: ron minnich To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing In-Reply-To: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:54:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: didn't see the Imperial War Museum in your list. I liked it. ron From ajft@ajft.org Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 13:24:43 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2340d752_9995_11d8_8328_00304828b574_30910; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5B83441A6 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 230a8ef4_9995_11d8_9633_00304828b574_30902; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:42 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 54AE175810E; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:35 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325927580FB for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:29 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 1b256650_9995_11d8_9d8f_00304828b574_30770; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:24:30 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED383441A6 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:18:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4f17023a_9994_11d8_94d8_00304828b574_23976; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:18:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 97C8B1A093; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9D47119F01; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:18:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id A640019EF6; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ALPHA9.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha9.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.9]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C897719F01 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.85]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L9I73T3SVI90GOXO@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:12:35 +1000 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214EF158006 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:12:35 +1000 (EST) Received: from ajft.org (pc-949122.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.3.169]) (user ajft) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104A6120003 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:12:35 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Tritschler Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing In-reply-to: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <4090804C.7080402@ajft.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Reply-To: ajft@ajft.org List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:10:52 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: George Michaelson wrote: > Sir John Soanes house museum. It has the most eclectic collection of > ephemeral architectural remains around. Wonderful! I'd have to agree with that, one of the most amazing places I saw when i was in london. Adrian From ggm@apnic.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:21 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 14:36:25 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 277d69e8_999f_11d8_9b8e_00304828b574_30145; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D74D34417C for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 2743d9bc_999f_11d8_9f48_00304828b574_30137; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:24 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CCD8E758119; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:20 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87ACC7580FC for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 20245fa8_999f_11d8_893e_00304828b574_30028; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:36:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50A83442CF for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:26:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id d1bfd474_999d_11d8_8758_00304828b574_18854; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:26:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 89F4219F12; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0A3CC19EAD; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:26:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 8EDD619EE6; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id AF25619ED4 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3T5PUxg013547 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:25:30 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Message-Id: <20040429152530.2009a1c5@dhcppc1> In-Reply-To: References: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.001 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100.001 (notspam) BAYES_44,USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:25:30 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:54:06 -0600 (MDT) ron minnich wrote: >didn't see the Imperial War Museum in your list. I liked it. > >ron damn. indeed a favourite, and indeed fine. and Captain Blighs house is just across the street I think for the blue plaque collector. -George From david@cantrell.org.uk Fri Apr 30 09:25:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 16:21:52 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2f38af0_99ad_11d8_8308_00304828b574_21167; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0474F34494D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e2c19360_99ad_11d8_8f29_00304828b574_21164; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:52 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D97417580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A5F7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e281de14_99ad_11d8_9e58_00304828b574_21161; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94D034494D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id e1d8dbc0_99ad_11d8_8de1_00304828b574_21158; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 0583F19D16; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E737D19CC9; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:21:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 7625619CE3; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bytemark.barnyard.co.uk (bytemark.barnyard.co.uk [212.13.209.47]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9A02619CDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from david by bytemark.barnyard.co.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BJ5qk-0004sB-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:20:50 +0100 From: David Cantrell To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Message-ID: <20040429072050.GA18485@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Rdate: a.d. III Kal. Mai. MMDCCLVII AUC Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:20:50 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 08:17:28AM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: > (its a shame that he blitz got rid of both Gin Lane, and Grope-cunt street) Gropecunt Lane was renamed by those nasty prudish Victorians, but still exists. Nowadays, it's known as Milton St, EC2. -- David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information Irregular English: you have anecdotes; they have data; I have proof From jkw@eecs.harvard.edu Fri Apr 30 09:25:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 16:38:28 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 349449ec_99b0_11d8_8af0_00304828b574_2645; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED04A344B7D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3463e05e_99b0_11d8_9952_00304828b574_2642; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id CF3957580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B8A7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 342353a4_99b0_11d8_9f5e_00304828b574_2639; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E878344B7D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 337ba4e2_99b0_11d8_837b_00304828b574_2636; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:38:27 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EADB519DE3; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 44935199F2; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE46F199F2; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from holo.morphisms.net (holo.morphisms.net [66.93.84.55]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id DD37819A63 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D9324FD0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5C4CE28; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:37:47 -0400 From: William Josephson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Message-ID: <20040429073747.GA68230@mero.morphisms.net> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 08:17:28AM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: Don't forget the Wallace Collection! From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 16:55:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a07e1726_99b2_11d8_9968_00304828b574_15853; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38EE34536A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a04b60a6_99b2_11d8_89b3_00304828b574_15850; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D482A7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBB77580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id a00a8158_99b2_11d8_83fd_00304828b574_15847; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17A134536A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 9f60df5e_99b2_11d8_971e_00304828b574_15844; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2045F19DD4; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 533F119D16; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:55:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 41F0E19D2C; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf00.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.77]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C6819CEE for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A6D55673C2 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:54:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <07e001c42dbe$d2b61140$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:51:45 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > didn't see the Imperial War Museum in your list. I liked it. yeah, it's neat. From dfawcus@cisco.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:22 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 18:07:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0fc590a_99bc_11d8_98da_00304828b574_13510; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97445344C31 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b0c7058e_99bc_11d8_80fd_00304828b574_13507; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 819817580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371BB7580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b08af706_99bc_11d8_89f9_00304828b574_13504; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B265344C31 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id afdfa8c4_99bc_11d8_9176_00304828b574_13501; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:07:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2287219D8C; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 4990419DEA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:07:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id B716019CDB; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 70F0D19CA0 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Apr 2004 11:13:51 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3T96tbj014915 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:06:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id KAA25707 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:06:55 +0100 (BST) From: Derek Fawcus To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing Message-ID: <20040429100655.F21235@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1>; from ggm@apnic.net on Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 08:17:28AM +1000 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:06:55 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 08:17:28AM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: > > Go to the houses of parliment before they build the glass screen across the > visitors gallery. Too late. According to R4, a temporary screen has already been erected (over last weekend I think). This is supposed to stay 'til the permanent one is fitted. The summary was that now one might as well simply watch the parliment channel. DF From davel@anvil.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:23 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 20:21:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 696c580c_99cf_11d8_9e54_00304828b574_32634; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF231344AAD for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 6934b078_99cf_11d8_9e01_00304828b574_32631; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id D12DE7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:50 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E587580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 68efd3cc_99cf_11d8_94ad_00304828b574_32628; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858BA344AAD for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 683b8f66_99cf_11d8_900e_00304828b574_32625; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:21:49 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 75C1919EFF; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5215819ECE; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:21:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id BD85119ECE; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anvil.com (wonderwall.anvil.co.uk [194.193.52.253]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 81FAF19CDA for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by anvil.com (Postfix, from userid 27) id 8CA0D4D3; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:18:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from anvil.co.uk (mother.anvil.co.uk [192.168.4.4]) by anvil.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076714C7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:18:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from zevon (zevon [192.168.4.64]) by anvil.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA20610 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:19:43 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Lukes To: 9fans <9fans@cse.psu.edu> In-Reply-To: <4090804C.7080402@ajft.org> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> <4090804C.7080402@ajft.org> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083237476.24012.230.camel@zevon> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] URGENT: Sir John Soane's Museum [was: Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing] Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:17:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 05:10, Adrian Tritschler wrote: > George Michaelson wrote: > > Sir John Soanes house museum. It has the most eclectic collection of Thirded: I still haven't been, and I want to, and it's free! It also has Hogarths and other nice art. http://www.soane.org/ Including catalogues! Annoyingly, we can't get a group booking on Saturday AND it's only open 10-5 AND it's not open Sunday:-(. If enough people (>=6) are interested AND are going to be in London early on Friday 14th, there's a group slot available at 12:30. TELL ME NOW and I'll book it. I'm also on the waiting list in case any of the other groups booked on Friday afternoon happen to cancel. Also, there's a guided tour Saturday at 2:30 if anyone wants to bunk off plan9 stuff:-). Cheers, Dave. From rcbilson@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca Fri Apr 30 09:25:24 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 21:55:48 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 89343efe_99dc_11d8_915b_00304828b574_13836; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C339F344B2F for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 8903155e_99dc_11d8_9127_00304828b574_13833; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id ABE487580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639417580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 88c75e56_99dc_11d8_83e3_00304828b574_13830; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA1C344B2F for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 881e336c_99dc_11d8_88ee_00304828b574_13827; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:55:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 39B6719F5D; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id A47C619F2F; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id F3F9919F0C; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.140.200]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 88FBA19F4C for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rcbilson@localhost) by plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca (8.11.7/8.11.7) id i3TCsSu28256 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C Bilson Message-Id: <200404291254.i3TCsSu28256@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Rtl8139 NIC detection.. Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:54:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I am trying to install Plan 9 on a celeron box with rtl-8139-10BaseT > ether card. The system installs, looks like rtl is detected during > boot but is not available after that. I did not find an entry > in 9fat plan9.ini too. What is the correct incantation plan9.ini > entry of this card (I am assuming that it is supported)? This sounds familliar... The last time I installed, which was about a year ago, the 8139 was built in to 9load but not into the actual kernel, producing the symptoms you describe. I'd try building a new kernel, making sure that it has the 8139 driver. Once I had a proper kernel, I didn't have to do anything to plan9.ini. From matt@juice.thebigchoice.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Thu Apr 29 23:58:54 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bbe26ed2_99ed_11d8_9118_00304828b574_20242; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43706344CD7 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bbb20ca6_99ed_11d8_8371_00304828b574_20239; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 274CB7580FA; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:54 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47C27580F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bb742760_99ed_11d8_8ce2_00304828b574_20236; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8B7344CD7 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id bacd02d2_99ed_11d8_9628_00304828b574_20233; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:58:53 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 1A2411A064; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E096319FDB; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:58:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D4BEB1A02E; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com (cpc1-nott2-3-0-cust18.nott.cable.ntl.com [80.4.204.18]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 346C019FDB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-TAG: matty From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] ipso Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:59:56 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Does anyone find the new default behaviour for ipso to be less than optimum. iirc it used to be that 'ipso file' loaded the named file from secstore for editing now I have to tell it 'oh by the way, when you've finished editing that file for me, please do not flush all by factotum keys, thanks'. It seems that a specific task has superseeded the general. Surely one flags special cases, not the lack of them? comments ? m From Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl Fri Apr 30 09:25:27 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 01:19:03 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ee116b00_99f8_11d8_9f52_00304828b574_23792; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D535D344D93 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id edd7af3c_99f8_11d8_8626_00304828b574_23758; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:02 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id B77527580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:02 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B777580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ed920554_99f8_11d8_93a6_00304828b574_23748; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638DF344D93 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecd96256_99f8_11d8_82ad_00304828b574_23635; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D01EC1A077; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7816919F2E; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:18:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id E70C319F2E; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 428C419C7D for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3TGHsCi028701 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:17:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3TGHstS023513 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:17:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id i3TGHso12481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:17:54 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200404291617.i3TGHso12481@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: comp X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: inbox.tmp To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:17:54 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Just wondering: anybody looked at the faster wavelan cards? any chance that something will be 'close' (w.r.t. driver needs) to the supported orinoco cards? Axel. From dvd@davidashen.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 05:51:02 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecf5542c_9a1e_11d8_873a_00304828b574_28082; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14AF344FD9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ecc11216_9a1e_11d8_9d03_00304828b574_28079; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:01 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C2B827580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:01 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590C77580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id ebd3620a_9a1e_11d8_8306_00304828b574_27945; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:51:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3C2344FD9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:50:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id eb2a0764_9a1e_11d8_8722_00304828b574_27942; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:50:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 04E141A197; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3813B1A1A7; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:50:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 006481A19B; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (unknown [217.113.20.242]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D35781A164 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adat.davidashen.net (localhost.davidashen.net [127.0.0.1]) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3TKisem071907 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:44:54 +0500 (AMST) (envelope-from dvd@adat.davidashen.net) Received: (from dvd@localhost) by adat.davidashen.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i3TKiqnn071906 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:44:52 +0500 (AMST) From: David Tolpin Message-Id: <200404292044.i3TKiqnn071906@adat.davidashen.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [9fans] novice question -- attaching a kfs filesystem over net Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:44:52 +0500 (AMST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Hi, I know it should be something simple which I don't understand. I have a cpu server with kfs; I want to attach its file system from another machine. I execute srv -m net!xotic xotic /n/xotic (xotic is the cpu server). But the only user I can authenticate with is the user that owns processes on the cpu server (bootes). What should I set up to be able to authenticate as any kfs user? David From russcox@gmail.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 06:03:51 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b7838136_9a20_11d8_97d8_00304828b574_5545; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41206345435 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b751a6c0_9a20_11d8_99c9_00304828b574_5542; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 234D77580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:51 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05D17580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b71298ea_9a20_11d8_98ff_00304828b574_5539; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58BE345435 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b6689d36_9a20_11d8_9478_00304828b574_5536; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:03:50 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F9A419BB7; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5303B19BB7; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:03:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 6F0A719BB7; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.247]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with SMTP id 0267519BA7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so21752cwb for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.71 with SMTP id u71mr55022cwc; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Russ Cox To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] novice question -- attaching a kfs filesystem over net In-Reply-To: <200404292044.i3TKiqnn071906@adat.davidashen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200404292044.i3TKiqnn071906@adat.davidashen.net> Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:02:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > (xotic is the cpu server). But the only user I can authenticate > with is the user that owns processes on the cpu server (bootes). > > What should I set up to be able to authenticate as any kfs > user? An authentication server? Russ From 9nut@9netics.com Fri Apr 30 09:25:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 06:05:39 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f7778fe4_9a20_11d8_9e7e_00304828b574_7129; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A17534543D for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f74628a0_9a20_11d8_97a7_00304828b574_7126; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 6BD2F7580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 243FB7580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f70685f6_9a20_11d8_806f_00304828b574_7122; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5BC34543D for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id f65abba4_9a20_11d8_82cf_00304828b574_7118; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:05:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 19C1D1A1B0; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D66EA19D18; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:05:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id AB90319D4D; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from plan9.9netics.com (unknown [64.91.109.37]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 0599B19BB7 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d9733e1c3457d83c2f46c6a2bee74f3@9netics.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] novice question -- attaching a kfs filesystem over net From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <200404292044.i3TKiqnn071906@adat.davidashen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:06:29 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > I have a cpu server with kfs; I want to attach its file system > from another machine. I execute > > srv -m net!xotic xotic /n/xotic > > (xotic is the cpu server). But the only user I can authenticate > with is the user that owns processes on the cpu server (bootes). > > What should I set up to be able to authenticate as any kfs > user? In cpurc make kfs listen for its requests on the standard (or not) protocol & port. Check kfscmd listen From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 30 09:25:30 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 08:17:07 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 557bafe6_9a33_11d8_8edf_00304828b574_22843; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293F5344355 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 5538675e_9a33_11d8_9585_00304828b574_22799; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:17:07 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 28B947580FE; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:17:06 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E96758105 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:16:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4ff2d9dc_9a33_11d8_99dc_00304828b574_22395; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:16:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFB3344355 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:12:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id b8349e46_9a32_11d8_9d18_00304828b574_17758; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:12:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 2E1B419F2E; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 9821E19C10; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:12:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D88C619D4B; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7857019BE1 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D1B75378DB for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:11:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <08aa01c42e3e$e1443450$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> <4090804C.7080402@ajft.org> <1083237476.24012.230.camel@zevon> Subject: Re: [9fans] URGENT: Sir John Soane's Museum [was: Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:08:23 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 05:10, Adrian Tritschler wrote: > > George Michaelson wrote: > > > Sir John Soanes house museum. It has the most eclectic collection of been there, done that. george, your list of things to do was interesting 'cos it reminded me that i'd seen 99% of it. interesting. you know my rates. here at the FOB @ insultant.net we are NDA & non-use free as of may 1; my "short timer's" clock is saying 22 hours and 53 minutes. was this meant to be a drink/meal or some glorified london tour? URGENT? that was a Foreigner track. Sir John Soane's Museum has been there for a bit longer than bad 80's rock. From bs@none.com Fri Apr 30 14:47:25 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 09:56:49 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 429b89c4_9a41_11d8_807f_00304828b574_10182; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FC73450B5 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 426b0b78_9a41_11d8_8da3_00304828b574_10179; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 63FCA7580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEB67580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 422aa0ba_9a41_11d8_943c_00304828b574_10176; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335943450B5 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 4182b134_9a41_11d8_8f8c_00304828b574_10173; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:56:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 290BE1A094; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D0A161A0BC; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:56:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id C01BD1A094; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C2CBB19B61 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from none.com (h00095b53ce25.ne.client2.attbi.com[65.96.64.196]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004043000554901200nmibue> (Authid: balajis); Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:55:49 +0000 Message-ID: <4091A411.1030003@none.com> From: bs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429072050.GA18485@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20040429072050.GA18485@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:55:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: David Cantrell wrote: > On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 08:17:28AM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: > > >>(its a shame that he blitz got rid of both Gin Lane, and Grope-cunt street) > > > Gropecunt Lane was renamed by those nasty prudish Victorians, but still > exists. Nowadays, it's known as Milton St, EC2. > There is still Scuntthorpe... From ggm@apnic.net Fri Apr 30 14:47:28 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 11:29:46 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3f08df8e_9a4e_11d8_853d_00304828b574_26885; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED66734513A for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3eceedba_9a4e_11d8_8d78_00304828b574_26880; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:45 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id C7D687580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:45 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8D57580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3e8e8626_9a4e_11d8_8cd8_00304828b574_26876; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F49E34513C for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 3de2ee24_9a4e_11d8_9416_00304828b574_26860; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id D00FF19BD2; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id B3A0319B36; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:29:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id EC8A519B57; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (cumin.apnic.net [202.12.29.59]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id D17C719B0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apnic.net (durian.apnic.net [202.12.29.252]) by apnic.net (8.12.8/8.12) with SMTP id i3U2S05V006768 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:28:01 +1000 From: George Michaelson To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] URGENT: Sir John Soane's Museum [was: Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing] Message-Id: <20040430122800.20dd26b7@dhcppc1> In-Reply-To: <08aa01c42e3e$e1443450$deda7d50@SOMA> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon> <20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1> <4090804C.7080402@ajft.org> <1083237476.24012.230.camel@zevon> <08aa01c42e3e$e1443450$deda7d50@SOMA> Organization: APNIC Pty Ltd X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws47 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Fruit-Of-The-Month-Club: persimmon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AP-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100 required=6 X-AP-Spam-Score: -100 (notspam) USER_IN_WHITELIST X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:28:00 +1000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_RFCI autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:08:23 +0200 "boyd, rounin" wrote: >> On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 05:10, Adrian Tritschler wrote: >> > George Michaelson wrote: >> > > Sir John Soanes house museum. It has the most eclectic collection of > >been there, done that. > >george, your list of things to do was interesting 'cos it reminded me >that i'd seen 99% of it. interesting. I was feeling homesick. I think anybody who has lived in London winds up seeing many/most of these. I left off so many things worth a glim: climpompidras niddle (as tony hancock called it) on the embankment, the thames barrier, kensington market, Portobello Road Market, Marx's tomb in Highgate, the list probably *is* endless.. Harrods food hall is worth a viz, the polychrome tiles are wonderful. If you want a nostalgia trip for a photo op. the zebra crossing at Abbey Road studios is always good for a laugh. But make sure Boyd has bare feet on the black stripe.. -George From boyd@insultant.net Fri Apr 30 20:44:45 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 18:33:47 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b3bb4aa_9a89_11d8_98a9_00304828b574_5885; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CAA34535E for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7b0a8d9e_9a89_11d8_91d9_00304828b574_5882; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:47 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 29E807580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:47 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BDB7580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7ac8d246_9a89_11d8_950a_00304828b574_5879; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E944234535E for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7a1f9c12_9a89_11d8_9894_00304828b574_5875; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:33:46 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 548271A1A7; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id C6DDB1A0DE; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:33:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 77B441A110; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.cegetel.net (mf01.sitadelle.com [212.94.174.78]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 5785E1A08B for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SOMA (unknown [80.125.218.222]) by smtp.cegetel.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1518C37A0F for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:32:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <09ec01c42e95$9b5acb00$deda7d50@SOMA> From: "boyd, rounin" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> References: <1083168140.26799.444.camel@zevon><20040429081728.53728fda@dhcppc1><4090804C.7080402@ajft.org><1083237476.24012.230.camel@zevon><08aa01c42e3e$e1443450$deda7d50@SOMA> <20040430122800.20dd26b7@dhcppc1> Subject: Re: [9fans] URGENT: Sir John Soane's Museum [was: Things to do in London When You're 9con-ing] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:29:09 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: > If you want a nostalgia trip for a photo op. the zebra crossing at Abbey > Road studios is always good for a laugh. been there too. NW3 iirc. From nemo@lsub.org Sat May 1 01:42:36 2004 Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp ([202.16.124.2]) by ar; Fri Apr 30 23:56:00 JST 2004 Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e9d67e2_9ab6_11d8_8b58_00304828b574_21875; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:56:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (vega [202.16.124.3]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D63D344428 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:56:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from vega.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e6ba7de_9ab6_11d8_9987_00304828b574_21872; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:56:00 +0900 (JST) Received: by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) id 2C83C7580FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:56:00 +0900 (JST) Delivered-To: arisawa@aichi-u.ac.jp Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (smtp [202.16.124.2]) by vega.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88457580F9 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:55:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7e2012f6_9ab6_11d8_8d45_00304828b574_21869; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:55:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by smtp.aichi-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0409344428 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:55:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu by kwck.aichi-u.ac.jp via csmap id 7d7790ae_9ab6_11d8_9a5a_00304828b574_21866; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:55:59 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id 30A7B1A202; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (psuvax1.cse.psu.edu [130.203.4.6]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id E7C721A1FC; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Delivered-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Received: by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server, from userid 60001) id CE1D11A1FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sargazos.escet.urjc.es (sargazos.escet.urjc.es [212.128.4.206]) by mail.cse.psu.edu (CSE Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7C0471A1E9 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Fco.J.Ballesteros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] pic(1) question Sender: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu Errors-To: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu X-BeenThere: 9fans@cse.psu.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.cse.psu.edu> List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:54:38 +0200 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on psuvax1.cse.psu.edu X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Is there a way of using from pic an external graphic and place it within the pic drawing? Excuse the ignorance.