From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 03:04:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12915 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:04:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA12911 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:04:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24706 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 08:04:11 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 08:04:11 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 1 Nov 1998 02:53:48 GMT From: Michael Carmody Message-ID: <363BCD3C.CA2BBB1D@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Subject: [9fans] Nameserver question Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I've loaded the diskette version of Plan 9 on my pc. The ethernet card is recognized ok. My question is how do the entries for the nameservers appear in the ndb file? The installation guide shows examples for the ip and gateway, but doesn't mention nameservers. Michael. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 03:09:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13062 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:09:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13058 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24966 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 08:09:17 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 08:09:17 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:30:00 -0500 From: James howard Message-ID: <363D0B17.FB9B1F95@wam.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland Subject: [9fans] Publicly Accessible Plan 9 System? Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Are there any publicly accessible Plan 9 systems? I was reading through the man pages and some of the commands just don't seem to make sense (read(1) for instance). I'd like to try these out in an operational environment. Does anyone know of or have such a set up? Thanks, Jamie From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 03:10:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13170 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:10:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13157 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25014 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 08:10:19 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 08:10:19 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 29 Oct 1998 20:56:11 GMT From: "Rob S. Wolfram" Message-ID: Organization: Academic Medical Center, The Netherlands Reply-To: efj@zpf.ay Subject: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu (Crossposted to non-dutch groups) There was (is) a thread going on about someone violating DMR's copyright. He posted an article in the thread himself, of which I would like to present you the headers: From: Dennis Ritchie Newsgroups: nl.comp.programmeren,nl.comp.os.linux,comp.lang.c Subject: Re: "The C programming Language" now online Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:04:36 +0000 Organization: Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies Lines: 11 Message-ID: <36367BB4.7B3A@bell-labs.com> References: Reply-To: dmr@bell-labs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: cebu.cs.bell-labs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U) ^^^^^ I have read about this happening before, but this time I witnessed it myself. How it it possible that the very person who brought us Unix and the C language, apparently doesn't believe enough in his own design to use it as a client OS and uses this sorry excuse of an OS instead? I think he really underestimates the example he is setting with this. :( He is still one of my heroes, but I am not very pleased right now. I do consider this post advocacy, so I didn't cc DMR himself. But it would be nice if he would join the forum and reply on this. HAND, -- Rob S. Wolfram ejbysenz@jv.yrvqrahavi.ay efj@zpf.ay e.f.jbysenz@nzp.hin.ay PGP: 768/07606049 31 09 D2 D7 57 B4 F4 FC CA FC 1F 34 8C BA C8 56 Use ROT-13 to get a valid e-mail address. No UCE please. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 03:14:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13336 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:14:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13331 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2660 invoked by uid 991); 3 Nov 1998 08:14:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19981103081433.2659.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 3 Nov 1998 03:14:33 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver question In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Nov 1998 02:53:48 GMT." <363BCD3C.CA2BBB1D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 03:14:33 -0500 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Michael Carmody writes: | I've loaded the diskette version of Plan 9 on my pc. The ethernet card | is recognized ok. My question is how do the entries for the | nameservers appear in the ndb file? The installation guide shows | examples for the ip and gateway, but doesn't mention nameservers. Something like: dom= ns=A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET ns=B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET ns=C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET dom=A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET ip=198.41.0.4 dom=B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET ip=128.9.0.107 dom=C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET ip=192.33.4.12 dom=example.com ns=foo.example.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 05:02:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14245 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:02:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA14239 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811031002.FAA14239@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:10:30 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] Publicly Accessible Plan 9 System? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu i don't think the existing licence, although its terms are broad, allows providing access to people outside an organisation that has got a licence or a member with a licence. you might be able to try the 4 diskette demo system, but that typically isn't easy to install on an already partitioned PC (and you might not have one to spare anyhow). in the particular case of read(1), here's an example: while(x=`{read}) echo $x it reproduces each line of a unicode file. no doubt amongst other things read(1) can be used by rc scripts to read a little data from files, and to prompt for input (as in /rc/bin/termrc): echo -n 'Mouse port is (ps2, 0 (DOS''s COM1), 1 (DOS''s COM2)):' mouseport=`{read} switch($mouseport){ case ps2 0 1 if(~ $monitor '') monitor=vga aux/vga -l $vgasize aux/mouse -dC $mouseport case * echo Cannot recognize mouse type "$"mouseport" } or in a self-contained command following an example for the Bourne Shell in Kernighan & Pike's The Unix Programming Environment (as it then was). % cat pick.rc #!/bin/rc # pick -- echo selected items to the standard output fn ask { echo -n $1^'? ' >/dev/cons x=`{read ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25044 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:18:13 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:18:15 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <363F1186.209218B1@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:21:58 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Bonnie Benchmark References: <19981028033702.10448.qmail@bezout.newcastle.edu.au> <3636FA30.CF6E016D@dcc.unicamp.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Did anyone run Bonnie Benchmark (http://www.portal.ca/~cjs/computer/benchmark/bonnie.c) on Plan 9? Franklin. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 10:21:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17927 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:21:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA17917 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:21:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811031521.KAA17917@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 20233 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 23:27:08 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 23:27:08 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Publicly Accessible Plan 9 System? In-reply-to: Message from forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:10:30 GMT."References: <199811031002.FAA14239@cse.psu.edu> <199811031002.FAA14239@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <20225.910135628.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:27:08 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > i don't think the existing licence, although its terms are broad, > allows providing access to people outside an organisation that has got > a licence or a member with a licence. you might be able to try the 4 > diskette demo system, but that typically isn't easy to install on an > already partitioned PC (and you might not have one to spare anyhow). When I first read the above, I thought to myself "wait, was it just the source code? Or was it everything?" -- Looking up the license again, it does indeed seem to be EVERYTHING. So according to the license, in fact one may not let people even log in to the system if they are not a license holder. How sad. :( 1. LICENSE. Lucent Technologies Inc. (LUCENT) grants you, the LICENSEE, a personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive license to use the enclosed software programs, documentation, and other materials (collectively SOFTWARE), subject to the terms and restrictions of this Agreement. The term SOFTWARE includes any works derived or modified from the enclosed materials, but does not include your original works, even though they conform to specifications included in the SOFTWARE provided such works are not derived or modified from the SOFTWARE. [...] This SOFTWARE may be used by you or by an organization of which you are a member or employee solely for research or educational purposes. Without executing an applicable sublicense with LUCENT, no part of the SOFTWARE may be published, sold, or offered for sale, nor may any part of the SOFTWARE be made available on a computer network external to you or your organization, nor may commercial services utilizing this SOFTWARE be sold or offered for sale. You may transmit derived or modified portions of this SOFTWARE specifically to other LICENSEES of LUCENT who are bound by the terms of this Agreement solely for their internal research or educational purposes. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 10:29:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18312 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:29:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18307 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:29:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811031529.KAA18307@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 20777 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 23:35:12 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 23:35:12 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver question In-reply-to: Message from Michael Carmody of "01 Nov 1998 02:53:48 GMT."References: <363BCD3C.CA2BBB1D@worldnet.att.net> <363BCD3C.CA2BBB1D@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <20769.910136112.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:35:12 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > I've loaded the diskette version of Plan 9 on my pc. The ethernet card > is recognized ok. My question is how do the entries for the > nameservers appear in the ndb file? The installation guide shows > examples for the ip and gateway, but doesn't mention nameservers. If you don't plan to be a domain-level server yourself, you may want to piggy-back off whatever domain-level server does exist for your network. What I have in mine is: dom= ns=cilantro.stanford.edu ns=cassandra.stanford.edu ns=caribou.stanford.edu dom=cilantro.stanford.edu ip=171.64.7.99 dom=cassandra.stanford.edu ip=171.64.7.77 dom=caribou.stanford.edu ip=171.64.7.55 The above gives me full DNS capability off of the Stanford DNS system. Of course, this also means that if their DNS has a bad cache or something, I won't be able to do anything about it. And, as was shown earlier, you can have specific dom= entries for specific domains, or have a 'dom=' entry with a list of the root-level DNS servers. Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 12:43:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21973 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:43:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA21429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:59:00 -0500 (EST) From: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811031659.LAA21429@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:58:20 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I don't see what the fuss is about. Would you rather he ran Netscape under Linux instead of Win95? The browser and OS will crash just as often in either case. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 19:21:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01288 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:21:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from prognet.com (prognet.com [205.219.198.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01282 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:21:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from alanp (ten205.prognet.com [172.16.10.205]) by prognet.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA28752 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:21:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981103163139.01682900@mail.prognet.com> X-Sender: skipt@mail.prognet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:31:39 -0800 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Fariborz \"Skip\" Tavakkolian" Subject: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( In-Reply-To: <199811031659.LAA21429@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu So, why would anyone in Bell Labs, of all places, *need* to run inferior browsers on inferior OS? At 11:58 AM 11/3/98 -0500, rob@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: >I don't see what the fuss is about. Would you rather he ran >Netscape under Linux instead of Win95? The browser and >OS will crash just as often in either case. > >-rob > > From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 3 22:16:30 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03644 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:16:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03640 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:16:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811040316.WAA03640@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 3952 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1998 11:21:49 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 4 Nov 1998 11:21:49 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( In-reply-to: Message from "Fariborz \"Skip\" Tavakkolian" of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:31:39 PST."References: <3.0.5.32.19981103163139.01682900@mail.prognet.com> <3.0.5.32.19981103163139.01682900@mail.prognet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3944.910178509.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 03:21:49 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > So, why would anyone in Bell Labs, of all places, *need* to > run inferior browsers on inferior OS? Please folks! Let's not have a flame war on the list! You can go to Usenet for that... Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 03:00:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07042 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:00:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07038 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id AAA06896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma910166445.006885; Wed, 4 Nov 98 00:00:45 -0800 Received: by symnt3.Cadence.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:01:09 -0000 Message-ID: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE8DF@symnt3.Cadence.COM> From: Nigel Roles To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:01:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I quite agree. One point though, I not aware of any browser that deserves the sobriquet "superior". Which one is it? -----Original Message----- From: James A. Robinson [mailto:Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 11:22 AM To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( > So, why would anyone in Bell Labs, of all places, *need* to > run inferior browsers on inferior OS? Please folks! Let's not have a flame war on the list! You can go to Usenet for that... Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 03:48:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07408 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:48:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from homa.tavako.com (root@PPPbug-3.prognet.com [205.219.198.243]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07403 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:48:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from real.com (fst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homa.tavako.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA18902 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:50:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3640154C.4C85688A@real.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 00:50:20 -0800 From: Skip Tavakkolian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] A browser worthy of Plan9 References: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE8DF@symnt3.Cadence.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I was bluffing. Apparently no one knows of one. Nigel Roles wrote: > I quite agree. One point though, I not aware of any browser that > deserves the sobriquet "superior". Which one is it? > > -----Original Message----- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 04:16:18 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07718 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:16:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA07714 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:16:14 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811040916.EAA07714@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:24:20 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] A browser worthy of Plan9 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>I was bluffing. Apparently no one knows of one. the new charon (which runs under Inferno, native or emu) is well written, though incomplete (last i saw it, but that was months ago). it does its best with the disgusting html/http environment. what a way to run a network. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 04:37:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07927 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:37:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cegelecproj.co.uk (ganymede.cegelecproj.co.uk [194.216.105.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA07923 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:37:51 -0500 (EST) From: steve_kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk Received: from vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (cerberus.cegelecproj.co.uk) by cegelecproj.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10065; Wed, 4 Nov 98 09:37:18 GMT Received: from spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk (spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk [172.16.34.71]) by vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA28603 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:37:15 GMT Received: by spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 802566B2.00351C08 ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:40:05 +0000 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: CEGELECPROJ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <802566B2.0034B225.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:40:24 +0000 Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On 04/11/98 08:01:07 Nigel Roles wrote: > I quite agree. One point though, I not aware of any browser that > deserves the sobriquet "superior". Which one is it? I feel that forsyth's point from long ago is just as valid to web browsers: "then again, cat > /dev/null is often just as good a news reader as any." steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 09:39:00 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11104 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:38:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA11100 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 17375 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1998 14:38:39 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 4 Nov 1998 14:38:39 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 4 Nov 1998 01:05:08 GMT From: Michael Carmody Message-ID: <363FA83F.163B189A@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Subject: [9fans] Nameserver Question Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thanks to all who responded to my question. Unfortunately I'm still not able to get the nameserver thing to work. Most of the trouble is due to my inexperience, but I'm going to keep trying. Using Mothra when I try to locate a URL that isn't a file on my local machine I get the error: cs: can't translate address. Maybe by looking at how things work under Linux I can get Plan 9 working. Under Linux I have a file called /etc/route.conf. In that file there is one line that says: default xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx Xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is the ip address of my gateway. I also have a file called /resolv.conf. In that file there are 3 lines : nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx I have the ip addresses of the nameservers, but not what they are called (like caribou.stanford.edu) My understanding of how all this works is pretty dim, but I think if the address, or name can't be found on my machine (it never can), the default is to send it to the gateway. Anyway it works ok under Linux. Is it possible to accomplish this with Plan 9? Michael From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 10:40:48 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12618 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:40:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA12611 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:40:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811041540.KAA12611@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 16926 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1998 23:45:56 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 4 Nov 1998 23:45:56 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver Question In-reply-to: Message from Michael Carmody of "04 Nov 1998 01:05:08 GMT."References: <363FA83F.163B189A@worldnet.att.net> <363FA83F.163B189A@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <16917.910223155.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:45:56 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > to locate a URL that isn't a file on my local machine I get the error: > cs: can't translate address. Can you run ndb/dnsquery? term% ndb/dnsquery > aubrey.stanford.edu aubrey.stanford.edu ip 36.48.0.102 Your gateway is set up with the entry for the network: # # Networks # ipnet=myrandomlocalnetname ip=36.48.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0 ipgw=36.48.0.1 fs=myfileservername.domain.org auth=mycpuservername > I have the ip addresses of the nameservers, but not what they are called You can find out the name by using nslookup from your linux box: #maturin:~ ; nslookup 171.64.7.55 Server: ns.mediacity.com Address: 205.216.172.10 Name: caribou.Stanford.EDU Address: 171.64.7.55 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 11:25:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13831 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:25:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13820 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:25:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811041625.LAA13820@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:24:43 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: re: [9fans] Nameserver Question Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu It's also worth pointing out that you don't really need to know the names of your nameservers. Just make them up! I just use this and it works fine for me. dom= ns=harvard0 ns=harvard1 ns=harvard2 dom=harvard0 ip=140.247.21.21 dom=harvard1 ip=140.247.21.22 dom=harvard2 ip=128.103.200.101 Remember that after you change this, you'll need to restart dns, and the easiest way to do this is to just reboot [sic]. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 17:11:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22579 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:11:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (root@ns.dbsystems.com [204.178.76.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:11:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gdb@localhost) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05581 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:03:17 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:03:17 -0600 From: "G. David Butler" Message-Id: <199811042203.QAA05581@ns.dbSystems.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Bonnie Benchmark Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Did anyone run Bonnie Benchmark >(http://www.portal.ca/~cjs/computer/benchmark/bonnie.c) on Plan 9? Here is bonnie. I ported the program (included at the end) to Plan9, but didn't change it otherwise. It is obvious what happens when the file size is greater than the buffer cache, but it is interesting that the read performance is impacted by the buffer flush continuing after the writes. Look at the single character read times. I didn't write the test, I just ran it. The rewrite behavior is really interesting. The amount of random IO created by the read ahead processes, the buffer flush and the server processes is amazing. Also, because of the distributed nature of the system, this is the slowest of the tests. When the file fits in the buffer cache, ethernet performance is the bottleneck. The times for 1, 2, 4, 8 and 16 show that. Otherwise, random disk IO is the killer. Notice the seek times across all the sizes. This test is made up of multi-threaded random reads interspersed with 10% writes. One last thing. I have tuned my filesystem for many small files and it uses 1k blocks. For the type of IO that this program is testing a 4k block size would be better. The equipment of the test (not my best stuff, but it works): File Server (with 1k block size) Intel 486DX/100 32MB RAM Two Adaptec 1542CF SCSI controllers 3C509 ethernet 10BaseT Mirrored 2GB Micropolis narrow SCSI drives (writes go to both drives, reads come from "closest") Ethernet Hub (no other traffic at the time of the tests) Terminal Intel 486DX/100 32MB RAM WD8003 ethernet 10BaseT term% ./bonnie -s 1 File './bonnie.54', size: 1048576 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 2...Seeker 1...Seeker 3...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 1 393 44.6 556 27.2 224 12.7 323 44.5 494 8.7 93.0 25.5 term% ./bonnie -s 2 File './bonnie.58', size: 2097152 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 1...Seeker 3...Seeker 2...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 2 384 47.4 466 22.8 236 15.2 270 36.5 252 4.3 93.5 27.3 term% ./bonnie -s 4 File './bonnie.62', size: 4194304 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 3...Seeker 1...Seeker 2...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 4 387 40.1 461 21.1 204 13.2 333 36.7 492 7.9 94.2 24.9 term% ./bonnie -s 8 File './bonnie.66', size: 8388608 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 1...Seeker 2...Seeker 3...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 8 351 43.5 514 26.9 236 15.4 310 41.4 485 7.9 91.8 27.5 term% ./bonnie -s 16 File './bonnie.70', size: 16777216 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 1...Seeker 2...Seeker 3...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 16 364 44.6 480 21.1 246 15.7 306 39.9 482 7.9 92.7 29.3 term% ./bonnie -s 32 File './bonnie.77', size: 33554432 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting...done Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 1...Seeker 2...Seeker 3...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 32 336 41.8 347 13.8 52 3.2 70 7.6 370 5.8 94.1 21.0 term% ./bonnie -s 64 File './bonnie.81', size: 67108864 Writing with putc()...done Rewriting... Writing intelligently...done Reading with getc()...done Reading intelligently...done start 'em...Seeker 1...Seeker 2...Seeker 3...done...done...done... -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 64 151 18.8 123 5.9 46 2.9 112 14.9 370 6.2 93.2 27.3 /* * This is a file system benchmark which attempts to study bottlenecks - * it is named 'bonnie' for semi-obvious reasons. * * Specifically, these are the types of filesystem activity that have been * observed to be bottlenecks in I/O-intensive applications, in particular * the text database work done in connection with the New Oxford English * Dictionary Project at the University of Waterloo. * * It performs a series of tests on a file of known size. By default, that * size is 100 Mb (but that's not enough - see below). For each test, bonnie * reports the bytes processed per elapsed second, per CPU second, and the * % CPU usage (user and system). * * In each case, an attempt is made to keep optimizers from noticing it's * all bogus. The idea is to make sure that these are real transfers to/from * user space to the physical disk. The tests are: * * 1. Sequential Output * * 1.1 Per-Character. The file is written using the putc() stdio macro. * The loop that does the writing should be small enough to fit into any * reasonable I-cache. The CPU overhead here is that required to do the * stdio code plus the OS file space allocation. * * 1.2 Block. The file is created using write(2). The CPU overhead * should be just the OS file space allocation. * * 1.3 Rewrite. Each BUFSIZ of the file is read with read(2), dirtied, and * rewritten with write(2), requiring an seek(2). Since no space * allocation is done, and the I/O is well-localized, this should test the * effectiveness of the filesystem cache and the speed of data transfer. * * 2. Sequential Input * * 2.1 Per-Character. The file is read using the getc() stdio macro. Once * again, the inner loop is small. This should exercise only stdio and * sequential input. * * 2.2 Block. The file is read using read(2). This should be a very pure * test of sequential input performance. * * 3. Random Seeks * * This test runs SeekProcCount processes in parallel, doing a total of * 4000 seek()s to locations in the file specified by random() in bsd systems, * drand48() on sysV systems. In each case, the block is read with read(2). * In 10% of cases, it is dirtied and written back with write(2). * * The idea behind the SeekProcCount processes is to make sure there's always * a seek queued up. * * AXIOM: For any unix filesystem, the effective number of seek(2) calls * per second declines asymptotically to near 30, once the effect of * caching is defeated. * * The size of the file has a strong nonlinear effect on the results of * this test. Many Unix systems that have the memory available will make * aggressive efforts to cache the whole thing, and report random I/O rates * in the thousands per second, which is ridiculous. As an extreme * example, an IBM RISC 6000 with 64 Mb of memory reported 3,722 per second * on a 50 Mb file. Some have argued that bypassing the cache is artificial * since the cache is just doing what it's designed to. True, but in any * application that requires rapid random access to file(s) significantly * larger than main memory which is running on a system which is doing * significant other work, the caches will inevitably max out. There is * a hard limit hiding behind the cache which has been observed by the * author to be of significant import in many situations - what we are trying * to do here is measure that number. * * COPYRIGHT NOTICE: * Copyright (c) Tim Bray, 1990. * Everybody is hereby granted rights to use, copy, and modify this program, * provided only that this copyright notice and the disclaimer below * are preserved without change. * DISCLAIMER: * This program is provided AS IS with no warranty of any kind, and * The author makes no representation with respect to the adequacy of this * program for any particular purpose or with respect to its adequacy to * produce any particular result, and * The author shall not be liable for loss or damage arising out of * the use of this program regardless of how sustained, and * In no event shall the author be liable for special, direct, indirect * or consequential damage, loss, costs or fees or expenses of any * nature or kind. */ #include #include #include typedef long time_t; typedef long off_t; typedef enum { Putc, ReWrite, FastWrite, Getc, FastRead, Lseek, TestCount } tests_t; #define IntSize (4) /* * N.B. in seeker_reports, CPU appears and Start/End time, but not Elapsed, * so position 1 is re-used; icky data coupling. */ #define CPU (0) #define Elapsed (1) #define StartTime (1) #define EndTime (2) #define Seeks (4000) #define UpdateSeek (10) #define SeekProcCount (3) #define Chunk (8192) static double cpu_so_far(void); static void doseek(long, int, int); static void get_delta_t(tests_t); static void io_error(char*); static void newfile(char*, int*, Biobufhdr**, int, int); static void report(int); static double time_so_far(void); static void timestamp(void); static void usage(void); static int basetime; static double delta[(int) TestCount][2]; static char * machine = ""; static double last_cpustamp = 0.0; static double last_timestamp = 0.0; void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int buf[Chunk / IntSize]; int bufindex; int chars[256]; int child; char * dir; int fd; double first_start; double last_stop; int seek_count = 0; char name[Chunk]; int next; int seek_control[2]; char seek_tickets[Seeks + SeekProcCount]; double seeker_report[3]; int size; Biobufhdr *stream; int words; fd = -1; basetime = (int) time((time_t *) 0); size = 100; dir = "."; for (next = 1; next < argc; next++) if (argv[next][0] == '-') { /* option? */ switch (argv[next][1]) { case 'd': dir = argv[next + 1]; break; case 's': size = atoi(argv[next + 1]); break; case 'm': machine = argv[next + 1]; break; default: usage(); break; } next++; } /* option? */ else usage(); if (size < 1) usage(); size *= (1024 * 1024); sprint(name, "%s/bonnie.%d", dir, getpid()); fprint(2, "File '%s', size: %d\n", name, size); /* Fill up a file, writing it a char at a time with the stdio putc() call */ fprint(2, "Writing with putc()..."); newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 1, OWRITE); timestamp(); for (words = 0; words < size; words++) if (BPUTC(stream, words & 0x7f) < 0) io_error("putc"); /* * note that we always close the file before measuring time, in an * effort to force as much of the I/O out as we can */ if (Bterm(stream) < 0) io_error("fclose after putc"); get_delta_t(Putc); fprint(2, "done\n"); /* Now read & rewrite it using block I/O. Dirty one word in each block */ newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 0, ORDWR); if (seek(fd, (off_t) 0, 0) == (off_t) -1) io_error("seek(2) before rewrite"); fprint(2, "Rewriting..."); timestamp(); bufindex = 0; if ((words = read(fd, (char *) buf, Chunk)) == -1) io_error("rewrite read"); while (words == Chunk) { /* while we can read a block */ if (bufindex == Chunk / IntSize) bufindex = 0; buf[bufindex++]++; if (seek(fd, (off_t) -words, 1) == -1) io_error("relative seek(2)"); if (write(fd, (char *) buf, words) == -1) io_error("re write(2)"); if ((words = read(fd, (char *) buf, Chunk)) == -1) io_error("rwrite read"); } /* while we can read a block */ if (close(fd) == -1) io_error("close after rewrite"); get_delta_t(ReWrite); fprint(2, "done\n"); /* Write the whole file from scratch, again, with block I/O */ newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 1, ORDWR); fprint(2, "Writing intelligently..."); for (words = 0; words < Chunk / IntSize; words++) buf[words] = 0; timestamp(); for (words = bufindex = 0; words < (size / Chunk); words++) { /* for each word */ if (bufindex == (Chunk / IntSize)) bufindex = 0; buf[bufindex++]++; if (write(fd, (char *) buf, Chunk) == -1) io_error("write(2)"); } /* for each word */ if (close(fd) == -1) io_error("close after fast write"); get_delta_t(FastWrite); fprint(2, "done\n"); /* read them all back with getc() */ newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 0, OREAD); for (words = 0; words < 256; words++) chars[words] = 0; fprint(2, "Reading with getc()..."); timestamp(); for (words = 0; words < size; words++) { /* for each byte */ if ((next = BGETC(stream)) < 0) io_error("getc(3)"); /* just to fool optimizers */ chars[next]++; } /* for each byte */ if (Bterm(stream) == -1) io_error("fclose after getc"); get_delta_t(Getc); fprint(2, "done\n"); /* use the frequency count */ for (words = 0; words < 256; words++) sprint((char *) buf, "%d", chars[words]); /* Now suck it in, Chunk at a time, as fast as we can */ newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 0, ORDWR); if (seek(fd, (off_t) 0, 0) == -1) io_error("seek before read"); fprint(2, "Reading intelligently..."); timestamp(); do { /* per block */ if ((words = read(fd, (char *) buf, Chunk)) == -1) io_error("read(2)"); chars[buf[abs(buf[0]) % (Chunk / IntSize)] & 0x7f]++; } /* per block */ while (words); if (close(fd) == -1) io_error("close after read"); get_delta_t(FastRead); fprint(2, "done\n"); /* use the frequency count */ for (words = 0; words < 256; words++) sprint((char *) buf, "%d", chars[words]); /* * Now test random seeks; first, set up for communicating with children. * The object of the game is to do "Seeks" seek() calls as quickly * as possible. So we'll farm them out among SeekProcCount processes. * We'll control them by writing 1-byte tickets down a pipe which * the children all read. We write "Seeks" bytes with val 1, whichever * child happens to get them does it and the right number of seeks get * done. * The idea is that since the write() of the tickets is probably * atomic, the parent process likely won't get scheduled while the * children are seeking away. If you draw a picture of the likely * timelines for three children, it seems likely that the seeks will * overlap very nicely with the process scheduling with the effect * that there will *always* be a seek() outstanding on the file. * Question: should the file be opened *before* the fork, so that * all the children are seeking on the same underlying file object? */ if (pipe(seek_control) < 0) io_error("pipe"); for (next = 0; next < Seeks; next++) seek_tickets[next] = 1; for ( ; next < (Seeks + SeekProcCount); next++) seek_tickets[next] = 0; /* launch some parallel seek processes */ for (next = 0; next < SeekProcCount; next++) { /* for each seek proc */ if ((child = fork()) == -1) io_error("fork"); else if (child == 0) { /* child process */ /* set up and wait for the go-ahead */ close(seek_control[1]); newfile(name, &fd, &stream, 0, ORDWR); srand(getpid()); fprint(2, "Seeker %d...", next + 1); /* wait for the go-ahead */ if (read(seek_control[0], seek_tickets, 1) != 1) io_error("read ticket"); timestamp(); seeker_report[StartTime] = time_so_far(); /* loop until we read a 0 ticket back from our parent */ while(seek_tickets[0]) { /* until Mom says stop */ doseek((long) (rand() % size), fd, ((seek_count++ % UpdateSeek) == 0)); if (read(seek_control[0], seek_tickets, 1) != 1) io_error("read ticket"); } /* until Mom says stop */ if (close(fd) == -1) io_error("close after seek"); /* report to parent */ get_delta_t(Lseek); seeker_report[EndTime] = time_so_far(); seeker_report[CPU] = delta[(int) Lseek][CPU]; if (write(seek_control[0], seeker_report, sizeof(seeker_report)) != sizeof(seeker_report)) io_error("pipe write"); exits(""); } /* child process */ } /* for each seek proc */ /* * Back in the parent; in an effort to ensure the children get an even * start, wait a few seconds for them to get scheduled, open their * files & so on. */ close(seek_control[0]); sleep(5); fprint(2, "start 'em..."); if (write(seek_control[1], seek_tickets, sizeof(seek_tickets)) != sizeof(seek_tickets)) io_error("write tickets"); /* read back from children */ for (next = 0; next < SeekProcCount; next++) { /* for each child */ if (read(seek_control[1], (char *) seeker_report, sizeof(seeker_report)) != sizeof(seeker_report)) io_error("pipe read"); /* * each child writes back its CPU, start & end times. The elapsed time * to do all the seeks is the time the first child started until the * time the last child stopped */ delta[(int) Lseek][CPU] += seeker_report[CPU]; if (next == 0) { /* first time */ first_start = seeker_report[StartTime]; last_stop = seeker_report[EndTime]; } /* first time */ else { /* not first time */ first_start = (first_start < seeker_report[StartTime]) ? first_start : seeker_report[StartTime]; last_stop = (last_stop > seeker_report[EndTime]) ? last_stop : seeker_report[EndTime]; } /* not first time */ if (wait(0) < 0) io_error("wait"); fprint(2, "done..."); } /* for each child */ fprint(2, "\n"); delta[(int) Lseek][Elapsed] = last_stop - first_start; report(size); remove(name); } static void report(int size) { print(" "); print( "-------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random--\n"); print(" "); print( "-Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks---\n"); print("Machine MB "); print("K/sec %%CPU K/sec %%CPU K/sec %%CPU K/sec %%CPU K/sec "); print("%%CPU /sec %%CPU\n"); print("%-8.8s %4d ", machine, size / (1024 * 1024)); print("%5d %4.1f %5d %4.1f %5d %4.1f ", (int) (((double) size) / (delta[(int) Putc][Elapsed] * 1024.0)), delta[(int) Putc][CPU] / delta[(int) Putc][Elapsed] * 100.0, (int) (((double) size) / (delta[(int) FastWrite][Elapsed] * 1024.0)), delta[(int) FastWrite][CPU] / delta[(int) FastWrite][Elapsed] * 100.0, (int) (((double) size) / (delta[(int) ReWrite][Elapsed] * 1024.0)), delta[(int) ReWrite][CPU] / delta[(int) ReWrite][Elapsed] * 100.0); print("%5d %4.1f %5d %4.1f ", (int) (((double) size) / (delta[(int) Getc][Elapsed] * 1024.0)), delta[(int) Getc][CPU] / delta[(int) Getc][Elapsed] * 100.0, (int) (((double) size) / (delta[(int) FastRead][Elapsed] * 1024.0)), delta[(int) FastRead][CPU] / delta[(int) FastRead][Elapsed] * 100.0); print("%5.1f %4.1f\n", ((double) Seeks) / delta[(int) Lseek][Elapsed], delta[(int) Lseek][CPU] / delta[(int) Lseek][Elapsed] * 100.0); } static void newfile(char *name, int *fd, Biobufhdr **stream, int new, int mode) { if (new) { /* create from scratch */ if (remove(name) == -1 && *fd != -1) io_error("remove"); } /* create from scratch */ if (mode == ORDWR) { *stream = 0; if (new) { *fd = create(name, mode, 0666); } else { *fd = open(name, mode); } } else { *stream = Bopen(name, mode); *fd = BFILDES(*stream); } if (*fd == -1) io_error(name); } static void usage() { fprint(2, "usage: bonnie [-d scratch-dir] [-s size-in-Mb] [-m machine-label]\n"); exits("usage"); } static void timestamp() { last_timestamp = time_so_far(); last_cpustamp = cpu_so_far(); } static void get_delta_t(tests_t test) { int which = (int) test; delta[which][Elapsed] = time_so_far() - last_timestamp; delta[which][CPU] = cpu_so_far() - last_cpustamp; } static double cpu_so_far() { long tms[4]; if (times(tms) < 0) io_error("times"); return ((double) tms[0]) / ((double) 1000) + ((double) tms[1]) / ((double) 1000); } static double time_so_far() { long val; long tms[4]; if ((val = times(tms)) < 0) io_error("times"); return ((double) val) / ((double) 1000); } static void io_error(char *message) { char buf[Chunk]; sprint(buf, "bonnie: drastic I/O error (%s)", message); perror(buf); exits("io error"); } /* * Do a typical-of-something random I/O. Any serious application that * has a random I/O bottleneck is going to be smart enough to operate * in a page mode, and not stupidly pull individual words out at * odd offsets. To keep the cache from getting too clever, some * pages must be updated. However an application that updated each of * many random pages that it looked at is hard to imagine. * However, it would be wrong to put the update percentage in as a * parameter - the effect is too nonlinear. Need a profile * of what Oracle or Ingres or some such actually does. * Be warned - there is a *sharp* elbow in this curve - on a 1-Mb file, * most substantial unix systems show >2000 random I/Os per second - * obviously they've cached the whole thing and are just doing buffer * copies. */ static void doseek(long where, int fd, int update) { int buf[Chunk / IntSize]; off_t probe; int size; probe = (where / Chunk) * Chunk; if (seek(fd, probe, 0) != probe) io_error("seek in doseek"); if ((size = read(fd, (char *) buf, Chunk)) == -1) io_error("read in doseek"); /* every so often, update a block */ if (update) { /* update this block */ /* touch a word */ buf[((int) rand() % (size/IntSize - 2)) + 1]--; if (seek(fd, (long) probe, 0) != probe) io_error("seek in doseek update"); if (write(fd, (char *) buf, size) == -1) io_error("write in doseek"); } /* update this block */ } /* END OF bonnie.c */ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 19:03:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24431 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:03:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA24427 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:03:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811050003.TAA24427@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 16255 invoked from network); 5 Nov 1998 00:03:33 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 5 Nov 1998 00:03:33 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Bonnie Benchmark In-reply-to: Message from "G. David Butler" of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:03:17 CST."References: <199811042203.QAA05581@ns.dbSystems.com> <199811042203.QAA05581@ns.dbSystems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <16247.910224213.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:03:33 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Interesting! I ran it on my cpu server, and got some different numbers. I imagine much of the difference is due to the wide-scsi (an NCR 53c875, using Nigel's driver). Also, I did not set any specific block size when I was creating the file system. File server Intel P2/233 128 Mb RAM Diamond Fireport 40 PCI SCSI Seagate 9Gb 19171WC w/ SCA adapter 3c509 ethernet 10BaseT Ethernet Hub has smart routing, i.e., host-to-host routing CPU/Auth acting as terminal Intel P2/400 256MB RAM 3c509 ethernet 10BaseT bonnie -s 1 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 1 747 16.1 775 12.9 399 8.6 752 5.9 775 3.0 107.0 4.7 bonnie -s 2 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 2 764 14.9 793 13.6 393 8.8 752 6.6 778 1.5 108.7 4.0 bonnie -s 4 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 4 778 16.3 801 15.1 393 7.9 748 5.3 771 1.3 107.4 3.7 bonnie -s 8 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 8 775 16.6 803 14.3 399 6.6 749 5.9 790 1.1 107.7 3.9 bonnie -s 16 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 16 779 16.0 805 14.7 401 8.5 749 6.1 788 1.4 107.3 3.9 bonnie -s 32 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 32 781 16.7 807 14.8 399 7.4 747 6.1 785 1.3 108.2 3.4 bonnie -s 64 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 64 777 17.0 807 14.9 400 8.1 748 6.2 788 1.2 107.2 3.6 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 19:15:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24635 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA24631 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811050015.TAA24631@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 17185 invoked from network); 5 Nov 1998 00:15:00 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 5 Nov 1998 00:15:00 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu cc: jimr@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Bonnie Benchmark X-followup-to: My Message of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:03:33 -0800." <199811050003.TAA24427@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <17176.910224900.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:15:00 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:03:33 -0800 I wrote: < Interesting! I ran it on my cpu server, and got some different numbers. < I imagine much of the difference is due to the wide-scsi (an NCR 53c875, < using Nigel's driver). Also, I did not set any specific block size when < I was creating the file system. And as a side note... Here are the results from a P2/400 Linux box with 128MB ram and an IDE drive... bonnie -s 1 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 1 6321 98.8 75577 147.6 37539 110.0 5886 97.7 124422 121.5 15501.6 96.9 bonnie -s 2 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 2 6336 102.1 69745 68.1 31725 92.9 5729 97.9 125336 61.2 13833.9 96.8 bonnie -s 4 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 4 6319 100.3 68308 100.1 31169 106.5 5783 100.2 133433 130.3 13089.2 98.2 bonnie -s 8 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 8 6213 98.6 67784 99.3 33832 103.2 5747 100.3 132900 97.3 12539.6 97.2 bonnie -s 16 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 16 6244 99.9 66131 100.9 34100 99.9 5717 100.2 128472 94.1 1476.8 11.1 bonnie -s 32 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 32 5868 93.7 45987 66.0 2809 10.3 5283 93.5 126288 100.2 11155.8 83.7 bonnie -s 64 -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 64 5637 90.8 29349 43.4 1918 6.0 2807 49.4 123903 96.4 10850.2 86.8 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 4 19:15:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24700 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ns.dbSystems.com (root@ns.dbsystems.com [204.178.76.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA24672 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gdb@localhost) by ns.dbSystems.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA06111 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:07:17 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:07:17 -0600 From: "G. David Butler" Message-Id: <199811050007.SAA06111@ns.dbSystems.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Bonnie Benchmark Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >From: "James A. Robinson" >Interesting! I ran it on my cpu server, and got some different numbers. >I imagine much of the difference is due to the wide-scsi (an NCR 53c875, >using Nigel's driver). Also, I did not set any specific block size when >I was creating the file system. The main difference is that you are only writing to one hard drive, your write numbers are about twice mine. Also your 4k block size helps alot. The other difference is: > File server > 128 Mb RAM You need to test up to -s 256 to blow the cache. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 5 06:08:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01560 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:08:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01555 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:08:21 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811051108.GAA01555@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:07:57 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] bootp udp packets seem to be growing... Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>getting an too-large packet. bootp on the CPU server reports it is >>sending out a 364 byte packet, and the client says it expects a 364 byte >>packet. But the actual packet size is 366 bytes! >>How could it be growing??? i don't think i've ever seen such a thing with Plan9. is the 366 seen only at the client, or also by another machine snooping the net? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 5 14:58:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11900 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:58:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:58:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811051958.OAA11896@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 24628 invoked from network); 5 Nov 1998 19:58:41 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 5 Nov 1998 19:58:41 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] acme or sam user's list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24618.910295921.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:58:41 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Are there active e-mail lists for users of the acme and sam editors? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 5 16:22:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13939 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:22:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13935 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:22:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811052122.QAA13935@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:21:18 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: re: [9fans] acme or sam user's list? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu There's a sam-fans list at sam-fans@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu Try mailing sam-fans-owner. I don't think there's an acme fans list, but there's a wily-fans (free Unix "clone" of acme written in C). Neither is particularly "active". I don't remember the last time I saw a sam-fans message. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 5 19:01:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16882 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:01:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA16876 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811060001.TAA16876@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:01:33 GMT Subject: re: [9fans] acme or sam user's list? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu 9fans will probably do for acme. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 6 04:47:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22995 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:47:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA22991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:47:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2005 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 09:47:24 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 09:47:24 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: 5 Nov 1998 02:58:36 GMT From: Michael Carmody Message-ID: <36411458.63785630@worldnet.att.net> Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services References: , <199811041540.KAA12611@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver Question Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu James A. Robinson wrote: > > to locate a URL that isn't a file on my local machine I get the error: > > cs: can't translate address. > > Can you run ndb/dnsquery? > No, this command doesn't seem to exist on the pc distribution.. > term% ndb/dnsquery > > aubrey.stanford.edu > aubrey.stanford.edu ip 36.48.0.102 > > Your gateway is set up with the entry for the network: > # > # Networks > # > ipnet=myrandomlocalnetname ip=36.48.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0 > ipgw=36.48.0.1 > fs=myfileservername.domain.org > auth=mycpuservername > > > I have the ip addresses of the nameservers, but not what they are called > > You can find out the name by using nslookup from your linux box: > #maturin:~ > ; nslookup 171.64.7.55 > Server: ns.mediacity.com > Address: 205.216.172.10 > > Name: caribou.Stanford.EDU > Address: 171.64.7.55 I used nslookup from my linux box and got the names of the servers like you suggested. I put them in my /lib/ndb/local file but still get the error "can't translate address". I'll include my /lib/ndb/local file this time in case there is any obvious error. # # external internet domain service # dom= ns=ns1.worldnet.att.net ns=ns3.worldnet.att.net dom=ns1.worldnet.att.net ip=204.127.129.1 dom=ns3.worldnet.att.net ip=204.127.160.1 # # your PC (edit to suit) # sys = carrera dom=carrera.plan9.org ip=165.238.0.36 ether=0020afec18ca ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=165.238.0.33 bootfile=/386/9pcdisk proto=il There isn't a section titled network like in your example but there is this in the ndb file supplied with the PC distribution which I haven't changed.: # # your ip networks and subnets (edit to suit) # ipnet=mh-astro-net ip=135.104.0.0 ipmask=255.255.255.0 ipgw=135.104.9.1 fs=bootes.research.att.com auth=1127auth ipnet=third-floor ip=135.104.51.0 ipgw=135.104.51.1 ipnet=fourth-floor ip=135.104.52.0 ipgw=135.104.52.1 Anything under this point was unchanged from the origimal file on the pc distribution. There is a lot of stuff that looks like all Bell labs internal stuff. Is there anything obvious missing? Thanks, Mike From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 6 06:04:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23566 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:04:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA23560 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:04:48 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811061104.GAA23560@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:05:20 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver Question Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu don't forget to check that ndb/dns is actually running. ndb/cs uses it (via /srv/dns union mounted on /net) to translate domain names. ps will show you if the ndb/dns is running. if it isn't you'll need to start it in /rc/bin/termrc (or start it in /rc/bin/cpurc on a cpu server and import it in /rc/bin/termrc). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 20:55:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07209 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:55:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07205 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:55:15 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811090155.UAA07205@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:56:42 +0900 Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > "then again, cat > /dev/null is often just as good a news re>ader as any." Plan 9 reduced much unneccessary efforts from system management and programming. Yes, I deeply agree. However, it'd be better, I think, to consider what would be her merrit for general users like me. Genral users don't care what ever the system is. They have interests only on applications. I have one point regarding its international nature from the bottom. We have to fight against old standard though. :-) Sorry of delay of response. I've just returned from Maui. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 22:42:17 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08870 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:42:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08855 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03599 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:41:34 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811031659.LAA21429@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:41:34 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >I don't see what the fuss is about. Would you rather he ran >Netscape under Linux instead of Win95? The browser and >OS will crash just as often in either case. I have to dispute that statement as strongly as possbile. I run netscape under linux and linux has never crashed on me. netscape only crashes when I have java enabled... r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 23:02:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09553 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:02:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA09547 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:02:32 -0500 (EST) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811090402.XAA09547@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:00:36 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp ... I have one point regarding its international nature from the bottom. We have to fight against old standard though. :-) ... Could you elaborate on that a little? Thanks. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 23:12:31 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09813 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:12:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA09809 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:12:27 -0500 (EST) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811090412.XAA09809@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:03:30 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha ... I run netscape under linux and linux has never crashed on me. netscape only crashes when I have java enabled... i first responded in this way when asked in a previous life why the emacs mode wasn't working in the korn-shell: two wrongs don't make a right. --jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 23:47:20 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10664 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:47:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10653 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:47:13 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811090447.XAA10653@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:52 +0900 Subject: RE: [9fans] Re: DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > standard though. :-) > >Could you elaborate on that a little? Thanks. For an example, Plan 9 uses Unicode to deal with many languages, and UTF-8 for its communication. I agree with those choices as a reasonable base. However, unfortunately, there have been locale standard in many advanced countries. Japan is not an exception of this. We have to communicate with many others based on those "localed" machines. Well, network is communication! In such a situation, we have always two choices, one is accepting the foregoing standard, which free-unices are following as, and the other is a harder way where we are now facing. Logically speaking, the latter is wright. However,... Plan 9 might be too much logical for many of general users. Furthermore, according to my understanding, those general users seem to be getting controle of the future networking environment as a large mass. It's not worthy to teach them what is better from technical point of view. For an example, if we want to use TeX( I mean Japanese version), we have to work more than those of other free-unix users. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 8 23:58:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10891 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:58:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10887 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:58:07 -0500 (EST) From: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811090458.XAA10887@cse.psu.edu> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:58:35 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu when i was on sabbatical the university installed linux on the PC on my desk. it crashed regularly, several times a week. the netscape on it crashed at least several times as often; i never enabled java on it. everyone else in the department said that i was crazy; linux was very stable, etc. etc. they changed hardware, it made no difference. i sat down at their desks and crashed their machines, always by doing nothing more than running xterm and netscape to look at ordinary things. a friend of mine sat at my desk, typed a single url to her own perfectly sane home page, and hung the machine completely. i came to learn what stable means: linux is perfectly stable between crashes. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 00:15:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11272 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:15:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11268 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from risky.emt.com (user-38lcpun.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.103.215]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA10480 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:15:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:15:02 -0500 (GMT) From: Erik Theisen Subject: Re: [9fans] Nameserver Question To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <36411458.63785630@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Glenayre Electronics, Inc. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Wed 04 Nov, Michael Carmody wrote: > James A. Robinson wrote: > > > > to locate a URL that isn't a file on my local machine I get the error: > > > cs: can't translate address. > > > > Can you run ndb/dnsquery? > > > > No, this command doesn't seem to exist on the pc distribution.. > Yes it does, if you purchase the complete distribution for $350. The download/eval doesn't include it. Most things don't exist in the 4 disk set. Erik -- "Where do WE want YOU to go today" - Microsoft Erik Theisen Glenayre Electronics, Inc. (W) +1 770 2832648 11360 Lakefield Drive (F) +1 770 4973984 Duluth, GA 30097 (H) +1 770 6225354 USA From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 00:45:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11764 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:45:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11760 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:45:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:45:04 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811090458.XAA10887@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:45:05 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >i came to learn what stable means: linux is perfectly stable between crashes. all I can say is that my experience is exactly the opposite. I have 3 pc's (2 486DX2/66 and a 6x86) and they simply do not crash. (and I run much more than just netscape and xterm.) the longest continuous uptime that I recall was just over 70 days; they're in my living room so I do have to power them down every once in a while when I vacuum... current uptime stats are 1 day, 34 days and 25 days respectively. (my 56K modem card seems to get into a bad state that can only be cleared by a power cycle; hence the 1 day uptime for the first machine. just got a new modem card to replace it, with a Lucent chip, I'm sure it will work perfectly...) perhaps you were exerting a psychotronic effect on these systems that you were using? ie, your ill-will towards them caused them to crash... ;-) r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 00:51:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12010 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:51:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (pmdf@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.24.3]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12005 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from bezout.newcastle.edu.au (rejoarefj@[134.148.7.92]) by mail.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-29 #29342) with SMTP id <0F2500GJJ49XYY@mail.newcastle.edu.au> for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:51:34 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 8940 invoked by uid 500); Mon, 09 Nov 1998 05:52:59 +0000 Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:52:59 +1100 From: Russell Davies Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( In-reply-to: "Your message of Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:58:35 CDT." <199811090458.XAA10887@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-id: <19981109055259.8938.qmail@bezout.newcastle.edu.au> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > i came to learn what stable means: linux is perfectly stable between crashes. > This sounds most unusual. I hardly think Linux would have enjoyed such popularity were it as prone to crashing as you suggest. I've been using linux for around 4 years, I don't think I've ever had it crash once, (although X has died a couple of times) I'm sure many others will vouch for its stability. r. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 03:18:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13546 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:18:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (polaris.we.lc.ehu.es [158.227.6.43]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13519 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sirius.we.lc.ehu.es by polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16043; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:17:03 +0100 From: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es (Borja Marcos) Received: by sirius.we.lc.ehu.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28296; Mon, 9 Nov 98 09:17:03 +0100 Message-Id: <9811090817.AA28296@sirius.we.lc.ehu.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:17:02 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <19981109055259.8938.qmail@bezout.newcastle.edu.au> from "Russell Davies" at Nov 9, 98 04:52:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > This sounds most unusual. I hardly think Linux would have enjoyed such > popularity were it as prone to crashing as you suggest. I've been using > linux for around 4 years, I don't think I've ever had it crash once, > (although X has died a couple of times) I'm sure many others will vouch > for its stability. I prefer FreeBSD. Both OSs are indeed very stable. If I see an unstable Linux or FreeBSD box, you can suspect of the hardware. (I'm sure you know that there are PCs that hardly work...) Borja. -- *********************************************************************** Borja Marcos * Internet: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es Alangoeta, 11 1 izq * borjamar@sarenet.es 48990 - Algorta (Vizcaya) * borjam@well.com SPAIN * CompuServe: 100015,3502 *********************************************************************** From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 03:22:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13678 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:22:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (polaris.we.lc.ehu.es [158.227.6.43]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA13672 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:22:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sirius.we.lc.ehu.es by polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16053; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:21:45 +0100 From: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es (Borja Marcos) Received: by sirius.we.lc.ehu.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28334; Mon, 9 Nov 98 09:21:44 +0100 Message-Id: <9811090821.AA28334@sirius.we.lc.ehu.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:21:44 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199811090458.XAA10887@cse.psu.edu> from "rob@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 8, 98 11:58:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > when i was on sabbatical the university installed linux on the PC on my desk. > it crashed regularly, several times a week. the netscape on it crashed at least > several times as often; i never enabled java on it. everyone else in the department > said that i was crazy; linux was very stable, etc. etc. they changed hardware, > it made no difference. i sat down at their desks and crashed their machines, > always by doing nothing more than running xterm and netscape to look at > ordinary things. a friend of mine sat at my desk, typed a single url to her own > perfectly sane home page, and hung the machine completely. > I think you had a hardware problem, or you were using an experimental version. Some friends use Linux for work, as HTTP server, DNS... and I have seen uptimes in excess of months. In fact, those are their most stable machines. (The others have MS operating systems). And my experience with FreeBSD (which I prefer to Linux) has also been excellent. I have had no problems. I can recall it only crashed once, when I was trying a "snapshot" of a development branch. Regarding Linux, there are too many "distributions" and it is too chaotic. But, anyway, it works. Borja. -- *********************************************************************** Borja Marcos * Internet: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es Alangoeta, 11 1 izq * borjamar@sarenet.es 48990 - Algorta (Vizcaya) * borjam@well.com SPAIN * CompuServe: 100015,3502 *********************************************************************** From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 04:31:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14344 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:31:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA14340 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:31:20 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811090931.EAA14340@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:32:19 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>This sounds most unusual. I hardly think Linux would have enjoyed such >>popularity were it as prone to crashing as you suggest. I've been using it was my impression that the most common operating system today was indeed one of the least reliable. it must be popular with someone. (i wasn't thinking of solaris, though that's a close second in the unreliability stakes, in my experience, even after applying Jumbo patches.) perhaps o/s popularity increases with instability (much like politicians). i can't comment about linux: i installed it several times (until i got one that worked) but then found i had no reason ever to run it, so i turned the disc into a paging file to get some work out of it. anecdotal experience doesn't seem to me to settle the matter, and i think this is all irrelevant in the context of the original message: surely someone (even dmr) can run what he likes on a `personal' computer? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 11:57:56 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20548 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:57:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20540 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:57:50 -0500 (EST) From: rob@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:57:45 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Everyone seems to perceive some psychic effect or bad hardware. It wasn't the hardware; we replaced that once to no avail and I could crash others' machines that were otherwise stable just by using them for a few minutes. The anti-Midas touch, I guess. I guarantee it wasn't psychic. But I should add that around here, we have also seen much Linux instability. I suspect that, like most systems including ones I have built, Linux is stable until it gets used in a new way, usually by a new user. Even so, the claims of Linux's perfection seem untenable given my experiences with it in several versions on a variety of hardware. And that is my last word on the subject here; this is 9fans. -rob From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 14:33:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24394 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:33:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24379 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:32:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00558 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:32:54 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21951 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:32:53 GMT Message-Id: <199811091932.TAA21951@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:32:52 +0000 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu> from "rob@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 9, 98 11:57:45 am From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >But I should add that around here, we have also seen much Linux >instability. I suspect that, like most systems including ones I have built, >Linux is stable until it gets used in a new way, usually by a new >user. Even so, the claims of Linux's perfection seem untenable >given my experiences with it in several versions on a variety of >hardware. > >And that is my last word on the subject here; this is 9fans. > I don't see anything surprising here. If you are coming from Plan9, your expectations are high and Linux seems flakey. If, like a majority of Linux users, you are a Windows refugee, two commands in a row without a crash and you are ecstatic. My impression is that the BSD derivatives are a little more stable because they are more conservative. Linux has a somewhat more adventurous, bohemian development philosophy, for which there is a slight robustness penalty. Even so, I can believe that many people use it for years without ever seeing a problem. The only mystery is why Rob would have let someone load a clone of an ancient Bell Labs operating system on his PC in the first place :-) Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 15:13:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25790 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:13:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25772 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:13:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811092013.PAA25772@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 8070 invoked from network); 9 Nov 1998 20:13:01 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 9 Nov 1998 20:13:01 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] Re: Anonimity (Was: SCSI woes.) In-reply-to: Message from Lucio de Re of "Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:01:43 +0200."References: <199707141701.TAA05457@foible.proxima.alt.za> <199707141701.TAA05457@foible.proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8061.910642380.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:13:00 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > No, we are a society of nameless faceless individuals. > > #6 > > Nopes, my Plan 9 CD-ROM claims to have pictures of you all. Nary a name > in sight though :-) Check out http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/picdir.html. jmk is Jim McKie. Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 16:11:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27672 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:11:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (polaris.we.lc.ehu.es [158.227.6.43]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA27666 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from sirius.we.lc.ehu.es by polaris.we.lc.ehu.es (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA26626; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:10:21 +0100 From: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es (Borja Marcos) Received: by sirius.we.lc.ehu.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02228; Mon, 9 Nov 98 22:10:21 +0100 Message-Id: <9811092110.AA02228@sirius.we.lc.ehu.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:10:20 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu> from "rob@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 9, 98 11:57:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > And that is my last word on the subject here; this is 9fans. Sorry, I didn't want to start a flame war, and I'm really interested on Plan 9 (I bought a license myself!) :-) Borja. -- *********************************************************************** Borja Marcos * Internet: borjam@we.lc.ehu.es Alangoeta, 11 1 izq * borjamar@sarenet.es 48990 - Algorta (Vizcaya) * borjam@well.com SPAIN * CompuServe: 100015,3502 *********************************************************************** From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 21:20:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02548 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:20:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02537 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06975 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:19:27 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811091932.TAA21951@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> References: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu> from "rob@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 9, 98 11:57:45 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:19:27 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >The only mystery is why Rob would have let someone load a clone >of an ancient Bell Labs operating system on his PC in the ancient? I think 'venerable' would be a better choice of adjective... ;-) r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 22:41:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03716 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:41:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03712 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:41:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811100341.WAA03712@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 3526 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1998 03:41:16 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 10 Nov 1998 03:41:16 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> cc: jimr@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Anonimity (Was: SCSI woes.) X-followup-to: My Message of "Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:13:00 -0800." <199811092013.PAA25772@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3518.910669275.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:41:15 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:13:00 -0800 I wrote: < Check out http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/picdir.html. jmk is Jim McKie. Someone pointed out that I had been responding to an ancient message. That confused me, since it was marked as an unseen message in my inbox. I think what happened is my auto-indexing auto-filing script must have gotten confused and popped it in there -- I don't see any indication that anybody else got that message! Sorry for the confusion! Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 22:43:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03817 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:43:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03811 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:43:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07203 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:43:03 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811091932.TAA21951@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> References: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu> from "rob@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 9, 98 11:57:45 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:43:03 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >If, like a majority of Linux users, you are a Windows refugee, >two commands in a row without a crash and you are ecstatic. well, I wasn't going to post any more on this subject, however, I just ran across a website (http://ufo.its.kun.nl/uptime/) that tracks server uptimes. number one on the list is PenguinMail, an i586 running Linux 2.0.30. it has been up continuously for 359 days. (I guess they don't have to power down when they vacuum...) r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 23:06:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04312 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:06:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04307 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:06:00 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811100406.XAA04307@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:05:16 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu My palm pilot has been up for 2 years without a crash. It did flake out 2 years ago when I let the batteries run down though. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 23:23:10 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04773 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:23:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:40 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811100406.XAA04307@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:42 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >My palm pilot has been up for 2 years without a crash. It did >flake out 2 years ago when I let the batteries run down though. you mean you didn't just throw it away and buy a new one? r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 23:26:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04991 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:26:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04987 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811100426.XAA04987@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:26:20 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>My palm pilot has been up for 2 years without a crash. It did >>flake out 2 years ago when I let the batteries run down though. >you mean you didn't just throw it away and buy a new one? >r Please, enough! Don't give Dave ideas about throwing things. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 9 23:45:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05362 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:45:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA05358 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:45:27 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811100445.XAA05358@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:44:25 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I have to now, it didn't survive my last flight, the circuit board flexed a bit too much. However, the OS is still working, it just doesn't drive most of the display anymore. ------ forwarded message follows ------ >From cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Mon Nov 9 23:24:01 EST 1998 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Nov 9 23:24:01 EST 1998 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Mon Nov 9 23:23:40 EST 1998 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04812; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:23:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04773 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:23:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from gateway.minimal.com (root@gateway.minimal.com [206.243.174.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04764 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.243.174.23] (zorak.minimal.com [206.243.174.23]) by gateway.minimal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07354 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:40 -0500 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199811100406.XAA04307@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:22:42 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: ralph muha Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk >My palm pilot has been up for 2 years without a crash. It did >flake out 2 years ago when I let the batteries run down though. you mean you didn't just throw it away and buy a new one? r From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 00:13:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05885 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:13:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA05881 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:13:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811100513.AAA05881@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 9378 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1998 05:13:30 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 10 Nov 1998 05:13:30 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( In-reply-to: Message from presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com of "Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:44:25 EST."References: <199811100445.XAA05358@cse.psu.edu> <199811100445.XAA05358@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9370.910674809.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 21:13:30 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > I have to now, it didn't survive my last flight, the circuit > board flexed a bit too much. However, the OS is still working, > it just doesn't drive most of the display anymore. Since there is Linux for the pilot, is there going to be Inferno for the pilot? :P Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 00:48:23 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06361 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA06357 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:48:17 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811100548.AAA06357@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:49:46 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >Since there is Linux for the pilot, is there going to be Inferno >for the pilot? :P What is the merrit to have Inferno on note PC? I have no idea on Inferno though. ;_; Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 02:10:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07114 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:10:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA07110 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:09:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811100709.CAA07110@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 16516 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1998 07:09:58 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 10 Nov 1998 07:09:58 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( In-reply-to: Message from okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp of "Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:49:46 +0900."References: <199811100548.AAA06357@cse.psu.edu> <199811100548.AAA06357@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <16507.910681798.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:09:58 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > What is the merrit to have Inferno on note PC? >From what I've read, inferno has the same namespace coolness that Plan9/Brazil has. Think about how nice that would be for a hand-held. Instead of needing to squeeze apps into the tiny 1-4mb memory-storage on a pilot (or spending big bucks to get an 8mb chip), you could have all the storage be on a "pilot-server" sitting on a computer with a real harddrive. o No more worries about backing up the pilot o Almost automatic groupware funcionality o You could "download" software to the pilot (in reality, your harddisk) via your computer's network connection -- instant install without the need for serial-cable downloads. o No more need to hotsync between your PC and your pilot. both apps read the same files! o Pilot hardware can be dedicated more toward to screen i/o, and cache. o Having the equiv of /bin/cpu would be nice! They have tiny ricochet modems (wireless PPP-capable modems) that are about the size of the pilot. *I* think it would be cool. :) > I have no idea on Inferno though. ;_; http://www.lucent-inferno.com/Pages/Developers/Documentation/White_Papers/ Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 05:07:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08263 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:07:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA08259 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11234 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1998 10:07:41 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 10 Nov 1998 10:07:41 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:01:09 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <36477424.B9EBF090@null.net> Organization: @Home Network References: <199811091657.LAA20540@cse.psu.edu>, <9811092110.AA02228@sirius.we.lc.ehu.es> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I suspect that, like me, Dennis uses the right tool for the job. Plan 9 is wonderful, but it isn't supported by commercial apps. There is no way that a small development team can provide all the useful apps that one can obtain (free or cheaply) for the Windows environment. For example, I require Photoshop, S-Plus, and Mathematica or some close equivalent, but there is (to my knowledge) no close equivalent available on Plan 9. Consequently, my own PC can be booted into Windows 95, NT, Plan 9, or Solaris, all with C/C++ development environments, and hosts Inferno and Java Workshop as well. I get to choose the most appropriate environment for whatever I need to do. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 05:18:32 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08452 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:18:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08448 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id CAA22574 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma910693101.022555; Tue, 10 Nov 98 02:18:21 -0800 Received: by symnt3.Cadence.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:18:44 -0000 Message-ID: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE90E@symnt3.Cadence.COM> From: Nigel Roles To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:18:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Well put. It's disappointing that this needed to be said, since I would have thought it was self-evident. Let's get back to the jokes. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas A. Gwyn [mailto:DAGwyn@null.net] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 11:01 PM To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( I suspect that, like me, Dennis uses the right tool for the job. Plan 9 is wonderful, but it isn't supported by commercial apps. There is no way that a small development team can provide all the useful apps that one can obtain (free or cheaply) for the Windows environment. For example, I require Photoshop, S-Plus, and Mathematica or some close equivalent, but there is (to my knowledge) no close equivalent available on Plan 9. Consequently, my own PC can be booted into Windows 95, NT, Plan 9, or Solaris, all with C/C++ development environments, and hosts Inferno and Java Workshop as well. I get to choose the most appropriate environment for whatever I need to do. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 05:23:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08605 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:23:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from algw2.lucent.com (algw2.lucent.com [205.147.213.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA08598 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:23:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from emsr2.emsr.lucent.com by alig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id FAA25645; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:35:48 -0500 Received: by emsr2.emsr.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 Solaris/emsr) id FAA13050 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu.smtp; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:23:35 -0500 Received: from dante.lucent.com by emsr2.emsr.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 Solaris/emsr) id FAA13045 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:23:34 -0500 Received: from mill by dante.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA11088; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:20:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199811101020.FAA11088@dante.lucent.com> From: "Dharaneedharan Vilwanathan" To: , <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:22:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > What is the merrit to have Inferno on note PC? > > From what I've read, inferno has the same namespace coolness > that Plan9/Brazil has. Think about how nice that would be for a > hand-held. Instead of needing to squeeze apps into the tiny 1-4mb > memory-storage on a pilot (or spending big bucks to get an 8mb chip), > you could have all the storage be on a "pilot-server" sitting on a > computer with a real harddrive. > > o No more worries about backing up the pilot > o Almost automatic groupware funcionality > o You could "download" software to the pilot > (in reality, your harddisk) via your computer's > network connection -- instant install without > the need for serial-cable downloads. > o No more need to hotsync between your PC and your pilot. > both apps read the same files! > o Pilot hardware can be dedicated more toward > to screen i/o, and cache. > o Having the equiv of /bin/cpu would be nice! > > They have tiny ricochet modems (wireless PPP-capable modems) that are > about the size of the pilot. *I* think it would be cool. :) > > > I have no idea on Inferno though. ;_; > > http://www.lucent-inferno.com/Pages/Developers/Documentation/White_Papers/ The next version the same project had Papyrus handwriting recognition module running in Inferno with file tree interface. So we were even able to keep the recognizer itself in the network. It was evident that a powerful multi-lingual recognizer with huge dictionaries and look-up tables can be kept in the host while the device is still of same size. With new communication mechanisms like wireless modem, waveLAN, irDA, bluetooth, etc., things seem to be very promising. In fact, in an Inferno based solution, you will only need to have a device with display and input method. Everything else can be in a remote place. Imagine using a thin device with LCD display and a keyboard anywhere to browse, organize personal information, do home automation, etc!! Regards, dharani dharani@dante.mh.lucent.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 06:11:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08995 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:11:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cegelecproj.co.uk (ganymede.cegelecproj.co.uk [194.216.105.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA08991 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: steve_kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk Received: from vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (cerberus.cegelecproj.co.uk) by cegelecproj.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12892; Tue, 10 Nov 98 11:11:05 GMT Received: from spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk (spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk [172.16.34.71]) by vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA18995 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:11:02 GMT Received: by spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 802566B8.003DB7D0 ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:14:07 +0000 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: CEGELECPROJ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <802566B8.003CC7BD.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:12:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On 10/11/98 10:22:28 Dharaneedharan Vilwanathan wrote: > With new communication mechanisms like wireless modem, waveLAN, irDA, bluetooth, > etc., things seem to be very promising. In fact, in an Inferno based solution, > you will only need to have a device with display and input method. > Everything else can be in a remote place. I'm not at all convinced by this. The key attribute of hand-helds is that they work, wherever you go. If there's any requirement on communications, they're going to fall over at some point. There's a big leap between being able to make use of a network while it's there, and having to have one all the time. Does Inferno support data replication and conciliation? Having said that, I find the idea of replaceable application servers deeply attractive. At the moment, as you move around, your cell-phone attaches to different cells. Systems like Ricochet could also an Inferno-based server that provides facilities such as Dharaneedharan mentions "locally", while your personal data either lives on your palmtop, or on the other side of the world. steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 15:24:39 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19876 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:24:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from prowler.amdur.com (84.angoss.com [209.47.149.84] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19864 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:24:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by prowler.amdur.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04322 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:23:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:23:27 -0500 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <199811102023.PAA04322@prowler.amdur.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Dave Presotto wrote: > My palm pilot has been up for 2 years without a crash. It did > flake out 2 years ago when I let the batteries run down though. My organizer has never crashed on me, and I've had it since before Unix existed. It does OCR without having to learn someone's handwriting, voice recognition, supports I18N, has almost unlimited storage capacity, and an easy-to-use (actually, invisible) OS/GUI. It requires no batteries and has survived several collisions against concrete, ice and skulls. I've never forgotten it, needed to back it up, swapped the hardware or patched the software. Hopefully, I never will. Computer hardware and software still has a long way to go. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 20:06:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25791 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25786 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:25 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16290 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:24 GMT Message-Id: <199811110106.BAA16290@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: [9fans] kfs on sparc To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:23 +0000 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <199705100132.VAA25559@cse.psu.edu> from "beto@ncube.com" at May 9, 97 06:30:28 pm From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hi, I have a SPARCstation 2 which I can network boot using u9fs running on a local Unix machine, and I am trying to set it up to use its local hard disk. I can see the disk ok after doing a bind -a '#w1' /dev But can't figure out how to partition and format it. PREP(8) requires as argument a 'special', which is described as a 'maximal prefix of names of the logical units on the disk', but I can't find a definition of what this means. The example given is '#w/hd0', but I don't see how that relates to '#1'? Also, the '-a' is supposed to create default partitions on a new disk, but the description indicates this includes a DOS partition, so I am worried that maybe this is for the PC version only.... Finally, the entry for the sparc in BOOTING(8) only mentions net booting. Can a Sun be made into a stand alone Plan9 workstation? Thanks, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 21:36:54 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27224 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:36:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA27220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:36:44 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811110236.VAA27220@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:34:27 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, digbyt@acm.org Subject: re: [9fans] kfs on sparc Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Not the world's best wording is it? Since you have a scsi drive, you want 'disk/prep /dev/sd?'. ls -l /dev/sd* to see what's there after the bind and replace ? with the right number. It works for non-PC's, or at least used to. Just don't expect to see any DOS partitions to be found. A sun can be stand-alone. ------ forwarded message follows ------ >From cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Tue Nov 10 20:08:08 EST 1998 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Tue Nov 10 20:08:08 EST 1998 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Tue Nov 10 20:07:07 EST 1998 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA25825; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25791 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25786 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17414 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:25 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16290 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:24 GMT Message-Id: <199811110106.BAA16290@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: [9fans] kfs on sparc To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:06:23 +0000 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <199705100132.VAA25559@cse.psu.edu> from "beto@ncube.com" at May 9, 97 06:30:28 pm From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a SPARCstation 2 which I can network boot using u9fs running on a local Unix machine, and I am trying to set it up to use its local hard disk. I can see the disk ok after doing a bind -a '#w1' /dev But can't figure out how to partition and format it. PREP(8) requires as argument a 'special', which is described as a 'maximal prefix of names of the logical units on the disk', but I can't find a definition of what this means. The example given is '#w/hd0', but I don't see how that relates to '#1'? Also, the '-a' is supposed to create default partitions on a new disk, but the description indicates this includes a DOS partition, so I am worried that maybe this is for the PC version only.... Finally, the entry for the sparc in BOOTING(8) only mentions net booting. Can a Sun be made into a stand alone Plan9 workstation? Thanks, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 10 21:55:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27602 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:55:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (h24-64-158-136.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.158.136]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27572 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:53:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from spitfire (steve@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spitfire.fywss.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01278; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:52:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199811110252.VAA01278@spitfire.fywss.com> To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin), 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: steve-kotsopoulos@home.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs on sparc In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:06:23 EST." <199811110106.BAA16290@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:52:00 -0500 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Digby Tarvin wrote: > I have a SPARCstation 2 which I can network boot using u9fs > running on a local Unix machine, and I am trying to set it > up to use its local hard disk. > > I can see the disk ok after doing a > bind -a '#w1' /dev > But can't figure out how to partition and format it. [snip] > Finally, the entry for the sparc in BOOTING(8) only mentions > net booting. Can a Sun be made into a stand alone Plan9 > workstation? I've done this with a MIPS Magnum workstation, but not a sparc. You'll need a kernel with kfs support, try 'diff /sys/src/9/magnum/magnum /sys/src/9/magnum/magnumdisk' for help with that There are scripts in the subdirs of /rc/bin for setting up standalone systems Take a look at /rc/bin/magnum/home, which preps the disk copies the boot partition and kernel, then uses kfs to setup the filesystem. You'll probably want to run disk/prep manually. You might not need a boot partition with sparcs. Once your system is setup and running, you can sync it with your fileserver by running something like /rc/bin/magnum/update From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 00:24:09 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29905 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:24:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29901 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id VAA28799; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:24:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:24:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811110524.VAA28799@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt To: Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( In-Reply-To: <199811100709.CAA07110@cse.psu.edu> References: <199811100548.AAA06357@cse.psu.edu> <199811100709.CAA07110@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu James A. Robinson writes: >From what I've read, inferno has the same namespace coolness >that Plan9/Brazil has. Think about how nice that would be for a >hand-held. Does it have the same source-code coolness? In other words, can anyone who has Inferno get the source code for the whole thing? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 02:48:11 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01284 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:48:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26067; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:47:59 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA28757; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:47:57 GMT Message-Id: <199811110747.HAA28757@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs on sparc To: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:47:56 +0000 (GMT/BST) Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <199811110235.VAA25748@mail.acm.org> from "presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com" at Nov 10, 98 09:34:27 pm From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Hi Dave, Thanks for the quick reply. > >Not the world's best wording is it? > With free support like this, I guess it doesn't have to be :-) >Since you have a scsi drive, you want 'disk/prep /dev/sd?'. ls -l /dev/sd* >to see what's there after the bind and replace ? with the right number. > >It works for non-PC's, or at least used to. Just don't expect to see any DOS >partitions to be found. > >A sun can be stand-alone. > Ah, thanks. Still mystified about how this relates to the '#w/hd0' in the docs, but I think I know what it should be now. Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 02:51:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01405 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:51:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01401 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26198; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:50:55 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29068; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:50:54 GMT Message-Id: <199811110750.HAA29068@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs on sparc To: steve-kotsopoulos@home.com (Steve Kotsopoulos) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:50:53 +0000 (GMT/BST) Cc: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In-Reply-To: <199811110252.VAA01278@spitfire.fywss.com> from "Steve Kotsopoulos" at Nov 10, 98 09:52:00 pm From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >I've done this with a MIPS Magnum workstation, but not a sparc. >You'll need a kernel with kfs support, try >'diff /sys/src/9/magnum/magnum /sys/src/9/magnum/magnumdisk' for help with that > >There are scripts in the subdirs of /rc/bin for setting up standalone systems >Take a look at /rc/bin/magnum/home, which preps the disk >copies the boot partition and kernel, then uses kfs to >setup the filesystem. You'll probably want to run disk/prep manually. >You might not need a boot partition with sparcs. > >Once your system is setup and running, you can sync it with your >fileserver by running something like /rc/bin/magnum/update > Hi Steve, Thanks for the clues. I hadn't even gotten up to thinking about how I was going to copy the system onto the disks yet. Your information should be very helpful. Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 03:48:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01909 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:48:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail.core.genedata.com (mentolat-e0.core.genedata.com [157.161.173.16]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01905 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay.ch.genedata.com (pinatubo-e0.ch.genedata.com [157.161.173.32]) by mail.core.genedata.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22429 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:47:56 +0100 Received: (from enh@localhost) by relay.ch.genedata.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA372028 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:47:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:47:55 +0100 (CET) From: Elliott Hughes Message-Id: <199811110847.JAA372028@relay.ch.genedata.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( References: <199811100548.AAA06357@cse.psu.edu> <199811100709.CAA07110@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Does it have the same source-code coolness? it's possible to buy a source licence, but the price i heard was well out of my league. i don't think buying the source is a realistic option for an individual. as long as the documentation is so vague, there's unlikely to be a free alternative. i know i couldn't guess the format of the link section, for example. P.S. i've just realised (and wasn't in hold mode!) that you might not mean kernel source. if you're talking about the source to the contents of /bin, then /appl is the place to look. /appl/cmd/sh.b is the source to /dis/sh.dis, for example. unfortunately, things like the TK graphics library aren't written in limbo. so you don't get any source there, and are limited in what you can do to (say) the window manager. -- quest'avventura // ah, come diavolo // mai finira'? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 09:21:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05264 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:21:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA05259 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:20:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4217 invoked from network); 11 Nov 1998 14:20:49 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 11 Nov 1998 14:20:49 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:42:30 -0500 From: pip@stricca.org Message-ID: <3648EB86.395EED3C@stricca.org> Organization: the stricca inferno interest group References: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE8DF@symnt3.Cadence.COM>, <3640154C.4C85688A@real.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] A browser worthy of Plan9 Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > I was bluffing. Apparently no one knows of one. > > Nigel Roles wrote: > > > I quite agree. One point though, I not aware of any browser that > > deserves the sobriquet "superior". Which one is it? > > > > -----Original Message----- It is called Opera: http://www.operasoftware.com -- pip From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 12:27:43 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09240 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:27:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA09235 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1248 invoked from network); 11 Nov 1998 17:27:32 -0000 Received: from amos.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.36) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 11 Nov 1998 17:27:32 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:41:21 GMT From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <3649A201.E02970BE@null.net> Organization: @Home Network References: <199811102023.PAA04322@prowler.amdur.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > My organizer has never crashed on me, and I've had it since before Unix > existed. It does OCR without having to learn someone's handwriting, > voice recognition, supports I18N, has almost unlimited storage capacity, > and an easy-to-use (actually, invisible) OS/GUI. It requires no batteries > and has survived several collisions against concrete, ice and skulls. > I've never forgotten it, needed to back it up, swapped the hardware or > patched the software. Hopefully, I never will. Furthermore, its self-diagnostic program never reports any errors ... whether or not there are any! From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 13:02:16 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10176 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:02:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10165 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:02:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA00552 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:02:03 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA15668 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:02:02 GMT Received: (from root@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15230 for digbyt (digbyt@acm.org); Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:54:38 GMT X-Envelope-To: Received: from TDC.dircon.co.uk (root@tdc.dircon.co.uk [194.112.34.200]) by popmail.dircon.co.uk with SMTP id IAA20307 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:55:32 GMT Received: from popmail.dircon.co.uk by TDC.dircon.co.uk with SMTP id AA14224 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:55:31 GMT Received: from mail.acm.org (mail.acm.org [199.222.69.4]) by popmail.dircon.co.uk with ESMTP id IAA18698 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:55:26 GMT Received: from mail.core.genedata.com (mentolat-e0.core.genedata.com [157.161.173.16]) by mail.acm.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id DAA52760 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:54:36 -0500 Received: from relay.ch.genedata.com (pinatubo-e0.ch.genedata.com [157.161.173.32]) by mail.core.genedata.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22449 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:55:23 +0100 Received: (from enh@localhost) by relay.ch.genedata.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA331408 for digbyt@acm.org; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:55:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:55:22 +0100 (CET) From: Elliott Hughes Message-Id: <199811110855.JAA331408@relay.ch.genedata.com> To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs on sparc Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > Finally, the entry for the sparc in BOOTING(8) only mentions > net booting. Can a Sun be made into a stand alone Plan9 > workstation? good question. making a SPARC kernel with kfs is easy (the Plan 9 FAQ even tells you how). booting that off the net is similarly easy. booting from a local disc... that part has escaped me. in the end i worked out that the only way it was going to work was if i left a minimal Solaris partition on my disc with the second- and third-stage boot loaders and replaced the Unix kernel with the Plan 9 one. sadly a friend had kindly installed Solaris 2.6 over Solaris 2.5 on my little old IPC, and the boot loader in 2.6 only supports ELF binaries. i don't have an ELF kernel, and frankly haven't the faintest idea how to make one easily. versions of Solaris earlier than 2.6 may (i'm wary of being more confident, though i know forsyth used to boot an SLX from local disc) support booting of a Plan 9 kernel. as if one needed any more reason _not_ to "upgrade" to a new version of Solaris... [my IPC is currently running a stripped-down Solaris 2.6 install and has a very minor role on the network. and to think it could have been running acme and 5s!] -- quest'avventura // ah, come diavolo // mai finira'? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 11 16:32:06 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15473 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:32:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15461 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:32:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811112132.QAA15461@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:18:37 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > My organizer has never crashed on me, and I've had it since before Unix > existed. It does OCR without having to learn someone's handwriting, > voice recognition, supports I18N, has almost unlimited storage capacity, > and an easy-to-use (actually, invisible) OS/GUI. It requires no batteries > and has survived several collisions against concrete, ice and skulls. > I've never forgotten it, needed to back it up, swapped the hardware or > patched the software. Hopefully, I never will. That's strange. I've had quite a different experience. Mine is a newer model, ten years younger than Unix. It requires daily down time or it mostly stops functioning. Proper (and frequent!) care and feeding is essential as well, unlike (say) a Palm Pilot that lasts three months on a single set of batteries. Despite the almost unlimited storage capacity, throughput is comparatively (and frustratingly!) small. Long-term data loss is increasingly a problem and it doesn't come with ECC memory. Computational power is annoyingly limited; it would be nice if there were an upgrade kit to add a couple extra processors. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 03:25:05 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25678 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:25:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (mailhost.dircon.co.uk [194.112.32.65]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:24:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (cthulhu.dircon.co.uk [194.112.45.202]) by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23729 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:24:56 GMT Received: (from digbyt@localhost) by cthulhu.dircon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11591 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:23:04 GMT Message-Id: <199811120823.IAA11591@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Subject: [9fans] sunmmu.h?? To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:23:03 +0000 (GMT/BST) From: Digby Tarvin Reply-To: digbyt@acm.org (Digby Tarvin) X-Face: &(//%&/WHJk7>_lW'@YYeED-qsdBV8&h3_Hpn/0.9_=}vTk}5u/2l=Mx&rX!\.i9X{(S@nk[we'a|IX#|?jmh`(j}a+\C5/> %DpYTPd<7jF2V b[Z.TjttL[FMm_$Z$^#qd62A:T.qw7}0S\o.Or_|I 2t~t0D=eCU"S?ls%(Ro X-Pgp-Key-Fingerprint: 61 E7 39 FE 4A F4 CA F3 F5 5E BB 45 26 EC 36 3C X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I tried my first 'mk all' in /sys/src/9 today, and hit a snag. I don't seem to be able to build a ss10 kernel from my CD distribution. Is this a known problem? >From /sys/src/9/ss10/l.s: #include "mem.h" #include "sunmmu.h" But a search of my CD (under UNIX) gives: skaro:/usr/home/digbyt> find /cdrom -name 'sunmmu.h' -print skaro:/usr/home/digbyt> Couldn't see any mention of this in the plan9 faq on www.ecf.toronto.edu, so I am puzzled as to why I seem to be the only one to have hit this... Is this missing header file available somewhere? I am running the system on a SS2 served by a BSD hosted u9fs, although I don't think that should effect anything. Any Plan9 gurus offer any insight into this?? Regards, DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org http://www.cthulhu.dircon.co.uk From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 12:01:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02736 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:01:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02730 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:01:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from tanya (tanya.ucsd.edu [132.239.141.90]) by mail.ucsd.edu; id JAA02071 sendmail 8.8.8AS/UCSD8.3 via SMTP Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:01:39 -0800 ( PST) for <@mail.ucsd.edu:9fans@cse.psu.edu> Received: by tanya (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI.AUTO) id JAA19700; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:01:38 -0800 Message-ID: <19981112090138.A19671@Tanya.ucsd.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:01:38 -0800 From: Eric Dorman To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] sunmmu.h?? References: <199811120823.IAA11591@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91 In-Reply-To: <199811120823.IAA11591@cthulhu.dircon.co.uk>; from Digby Tarvin on Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 08:23:03AM +0000 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 08:23:03AM +0000, Digby Tarvin wrote: > I tried my first 'mk all' in /sys/src/9 today, and hit a snag. > > I don't seem to be able to build a ss10 kernel from my CD > distribution. Is this a known problem? > > >From /sys/src/9/ss10/l.s: > #include "mem.h" > #include "sunmmu.h" I believe if you comment out the #include "sunmmu.h" it'll compile fine. > Regards, > DigbyT > Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt@acm.org Regards, Eric Dorman edorman@ucsd.edu From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 14:22:14 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06180 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:22:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06176 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:22:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09138 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:19:33 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23248 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:19:34 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <364B3599.5A4CD91C@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:23:05 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Sockets Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D0B73312BD0C303FEB3C4EA0" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu --------------D0B73312BD0C303FEB3C4EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone run tests with bsd sockets library in /sys/src/ape/lib/bsd? Connect.c calls unlink which is inexistent in Plan 9 and remove needs libc.h which conflicts with sockets.h. Franklin. --------------D0B73312BD0C303FEB3C4EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     Did anyone run tests with bsd sockets library in /sys/src/ape/lib/bsd?

    Connect.c calls unlink which is inexistent in Plan 9 and remove needs libc.h which conflicts with sockets.h.

Franklin. --------------D0B73312BD0C303FEB3C4EA0-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 15:00:13 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07195 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:00:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07185 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1607 invoked by uid 991); 12 Nov 1998 20:00:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19981112200007.1606.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 12 Nov 1998 15:00:07 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Sockets In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:23:05 -0200." <364B3599.5A4CD91C@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:00:07 -0500 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> writes: | Did anyone run tests with bsd sockets library in | /sys/src/ape/lib/bsd? I posted some patches for various things a while back. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 19:59:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13960 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:59:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13956 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811130058.TAA13956@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:00:33 +0900 Subject: [9fans] How to use strdup()? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu strdup(2) uses malloc(2), but does not free it. When the malloced memory space will be freed? I'm facing memory problem in news reader having more than 2000 unread articles which uses the strdup() more than 2000 times, and then fails in malloc. Is this mean not to use strdup() in that situation? Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 20:12:34 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14282 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:12:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:12:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12515 invoked by uid 991); 13 Nov 1998 01:12:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19981113011224.12514.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 12 Nov 1998 20:12:24 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How to use strdup()? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:00:33 +0900." <199811130058.TAA13956@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:12:24 -0500 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp writes: | strdup(2) uses malloc(2), but does not free it. | When the malloced memory space will be freed? You'll need to free each string when you know it is no longer in use. Anyone ported Bohem's garbage collector to Plan 9? Alternatively, anyone ported Limbo to Plan 9? :-) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 12 20:18:46 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14500 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:18:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from assaris.sics.se (assaris.sics.se [193.10.66.108]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14494 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from assar@localhost) by assaris.sics.se (8.8.5/8.7.3) id CAA03297; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:19:04 +0100 (MET) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Re: How to use strdup()? References: <199811130058.TAA13956@cse.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.68) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Assar Westerlund Date: 13 Nov 1998 02:19:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp's message of "Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:00:33 +0900" Message-ID: <5ln25wmltk.fsf@assaris.sics.se> Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp writes: > strdup(2) uses malloc(2), but does not free it. > When the malloced memory space will be freed? You have to call free(2). /assar From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 02:35:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20721 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:35:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA20717 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:35:12 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811130735.CAA20717@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:36:47 +0900 Subject: [9fans] alias problem Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu We experienced a curious problem on mail alias of upas. In a user's /mail/box/user/names file, we have a line as ryu ryu-98@abcd.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp, and then, tryed to send a mail to "ryu" from acme Mail program. As a result, we got an error message from the upas system as: Mail to "ryu" alias 'local!ryu' from 'Liz.Bimmler' failed. The error message was: unknown user. Of course, we have not a local user of "ryu" or "Liz Bimmler" anywhere. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 03:16:19 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21234 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21230 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28347 invoked from network); 13 Nov 1998 08:16:11 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Nov 1998 08:16:11 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:01:18 -0500 From: Douglas Fraser Message-ID: <3649D0EE.DF1C1FBF@lucent.com> Organization: Lucent Technologies References: <199811102023.PAA04322@prowler.amdur.com>, <3649A201.E02970BE@null.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] DMR's OS :( Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Douglas A. Gwyn wrote: > > Steve Kotsopoulos wrote: > > My organizer has never crashed on me, and I've had it since before Unix <> > Furthermore, its self-diagnostic program never reports any errors ... > whether or not there are any! Tru, buht tha spel chekker iz limmited. -- Doug Fraser dwfraser@lucent.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 03:16:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21260 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21248 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28351 invoked from network); 13 Nov 1998 08:16:19 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Nov 1998 08:16:19 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:08:59 +0100 From: Mats Karlssohn Message-ID: <3649FC32.230BB9CC@swipnet.se> Organization: K.A.O.S Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I'm thinking about ordering the Plan 9 distribution to get something fresh to play around with. Not to make things too easy for me I'm (and to make use of machines present in the appartment) thinking of using an old SPARCstation IPC as my file server and a pentium/200 as CPU server. What I basically want to know is: is this a resonable configuration ? Will the IPC be fas enough to give resonable performance ? Better ideas ? -- Mats Karlssohn (SM5TFX), sm5tfx@swipnet.se "Without mistakes there is no forgiving, without forgiving there is no love" From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 03:16:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21296 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21272 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28357 invoked from network); 13 Nov 1998 08:16:27 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Nov 1998 08:16:27 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:01:24 +0100 From: Bengt Kleberg Message-ID: Organization: A Customer of Tele2 References: <199811110855.JAA331408@relay.ch.genedata.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] kfs on sparc Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In article <199811110855.JAA331408@relay.ch.genedata.com>, 9fans@cse.psu.edu wrote: > > Finally, the entry for the sparc in BOOTING(8) only mentions > > net booting. Can a Sun be made into a stand alone Plan9 > > workstation? > > good question. making a SPARC kernel with kfs is easy (the > Plan 9 FAQ even tells you how). booting that off the net is > similarly easy. booting from a local disc... that part has > escaped me. in the end i worked out that the only way it > was going to work was if i left a minimal Solaris partition > on my disc with the second- and third-stage boot loaders > and replaced the Unix kernel with the Plan 9 one. sadly a > friend had kindly installed Solaris 2.6 over Solaris 2.5 on > my little old IPC, and the boot loader in 2.6 only supports > ELF binaries. The only way to boot from a disk is to have a boot loader that supports plan9 kernels. Such a loader is installed if one use SunOS4 or OpenBSD (and apperantly old versions of Solaris? I tried 2.5, but it did not work for me) What one can do on a Solaris system is to get hold of the following SunOS4 programs/data files: /boot /usr/kvm/mdec/installboot /usr/kvm/mdec/bootsd and do the following on a minimal 'a' partition (I had the /dev compatibility package installed on Solaris) on _another_ disk, not the Solaris boot disk: mount /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 /mnt cp /boot /mnt/boot /usr/kvm/mdec/installboot /mnt/boot /usr/kvm/mdec/bootsd /dev/rsd1a cp plan9kernel /mnt From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 03:29:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21709 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:29:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA21705 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 13627 invoked by uid 991); 13 Nov 1998 08:29:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19981113082950.13626.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 13 Nov 1998 03:29:50 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:08:59 +0100." <3649FC32.230BB9CC@swipnet.se> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:29:50 -0500 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Mats Karlssohn writes: | Will the IPC be fas enough to give resonable performance? | Better ideas ? I used an ss2, which was ok, but I had random problems with the scsi controllers in my SLCs. (I didn't have any IPCs, sorry.) If you use an x86 you can use more modern scsi controllers, which will probably be faster and more stable. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 13 09:51:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25760 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:51:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA25748 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:50:57 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811131450.JAA25748@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:52:48 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] How to use strdup()? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>I'm facing memory problem in news reader having >>more than 2000 unread articles which >>uses the strdup() more than 2000 times, and >>then fails in malloc. it probably means i didn't consider closely enough when to free the string passed to plinitlabel etc, and never noticed the program growing. i think most of the other strdup'd values are freed correctly. as several people have said, the result of strdup must be freed explicitly somewhere. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 15 00:01:37 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23677 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:01:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from spitfire.fywss.com (h24-64-158-136.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.158.136]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23673 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:01:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by spitfire.fywss.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07351 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:01:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:01:01 -0500 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <199811150501.AAA07351@spitfire.fywss.com> Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 15 10:11:58 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26825 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:11:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26194 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:09:16 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11269 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:09:17 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <364EEF75.E15B415A@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:12:54 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] BSD Sockets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu When I compile the following program I get the following error messages. /* * tcpblast - test and estimate TCP throughput * * Daniel Karrenberg */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #define BLKSIZE 1024 struct sockaddr_in sock_in; struct servent *sp; struct hostent *host; long starts, startms, stops, stopms, expms; struct timeval ti; struct timezone tiz; char greet[BLKSIZE] = "Hi!"; int nblocks; int f; int main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { register int i; if (argc!=3) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: tcpblast destination nblkocks\n"); fprintf(stderr, "blocksize: %d bytes\n", BLKSIZE); exit(1); } nblocks = atoi(argv[2]); if (nblocks<=1 || nblocks>=10000) { fprintf(stderr, "tcpblast: 1 < nblocks <= 10000 \n"); exit(1); } /*bzero((char *)&sock_in, sizeof (sock_in));*/ sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; f = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (f < 0) { perror("tcpblast: socket"); exit(3); } if (bind(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof (sock_in)) < 0) { perror("tcpblast: bind"); exit(1); } host = gethostbyname(argv[1]); if (host) { sock_in.sin_family = host->h_addrtype; /* bcopy(host->h_addr, &sock_in.sin_addr, host->h_length);*/ } else { sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr(argv[1]); if (sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr == -1) { fprintf(stderr, "tcpblast: %s unknown host\n", argv[1]); exit(1); } } sock_in.sin_port = htons(9); if (connect(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof(sock_in)) <0) { perror("tcpblast connect:"); exit(1); } if (gettimeofday(&ti, &tiz) < 0) { perror("tcpblast time:"); exit(1); } /* starts = ti.tv_sec; startms = ti.tv_usec / 1000L;*/ for (i=0; i; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:17:28 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811151817.NAA28171@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:19:41 GMT Subject: re: [9fans] BSD Sockets Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu move #include ... #include above #include (they can go a bit lower down but that's enough to have the libraries dealt with in the right order by the #lib system; alternatively enumerate them on the pcc command line as on a unix system) you can either include to get the bzero stuff or do as i did, and replace bzero by memset and bcopy by memmove, with suitable changes to the corresponding argument lists. add #include after (say) to get the definition of system calls include write(). i believe its absence is a bug in the original source. then uncomment the calls to bzero, bcopy, the use of tv_sec and tv_usec, not to mention the write that does the work. i left a comment round the write "." because that will only slow things down (for what it's worth on a benchmark like this). pcc gives ANSI C only (see the man page and the APE document); you'll need -D_POSIX_SOURCE to access the Posix extensions and -D_BSD_EXTENSION to access the BSD ones including sockets and associated sin: pcc -D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_BSD_EXTENSION tcpblast.c compiles it. if it hangs during the connect() it (probably) means you haven't applied all the APE boddles required to swizzle things consistently on a little-endian machine. here's one i prepared earlier. /* * tcpblast - test and estimate TCP throughput * * Daniel Karrenberg */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #define BLKSIZE 1024 struct sockaddr_in sock_in; struct servent *sp; struct hostent *host; long starts, startms, stops, stopms, expms; struct timeval ti; struct timezone tiz; char greet[BLKSIZE] = "Hi!"; int nblocks; int f; int main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { register int i; if (argc!=3) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: tcpblast destination nblkocks\n"); fprintf(stderr, "blocksize: %d bytes\n", BLKSIZE); exit(1); } nblocks = atoi(argv[2]); if (nblocks<=1 || nblocks>=10000) { fprintf(stderr, "tcpblast: 1 < nblocks <= 10000 \n"); exit(1); } memset(&sock_in, 0, sizeof (sock_in)); sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; f = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (f < 0) { perror("tcpblast: socket"); exit(3); } if (bind(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof (sock_in)) < 0) { perror("tcpblast: bind"); exit(1); } host = gethostbyname(argv[1]); if (host) { sock_in.sin_family = host->h_addrtype; memmove(&sock_in.sin_addr, host->h_addr, host->h_length); } else { sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr(argv[1]); if (sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr == -1) { fprintf(stderr, "tcpblast: %s unknown host\n", argv[1]); exit(1); } } sock_in.sin_port = htons(9); if (connect(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof(sock_in)) <0) { perror("tcpblast connect:"); exit(1); } if (gettimeofday(&ti, &tiz) < 0) { perror("tcpblast time:"); exit(1); } starts = ti.tv_sec; startms = ti.tv_usec / 1000L; for (i=0; i; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:12:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (okamoto@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20480 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:12:05 +0900 Message-Id: <199811160812.RAA20480@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How to use strdup()? In-reply-to: forsyth's message of Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:52:48 +0000. <199811131450.JAA25748@cse.psu.edu> X-Face: c&p4R0TJjYFjk=@bKczo{C sKKOf\&6Uit'm^\>/U$hw>Q$ME8|YGbcfnd`z Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:12:05 +0900 From: Kenji Okamoto Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > >>I'm facing memory problem in news reader having > >>more than 2000 unread articles which > >>uses the strdup() more than 2000 times, and > >>then fails in malloc. > > it probably means i didn't consider closely enough when to free > the string passed to plinitlabel etc, No! It's mainly my part in making tcs(1) to library. It's expensive to convert ISO-2022-JP to utf or vise versa. I'm now in the process of updating this, however, it's hard enough to me. :-) Many strange behaviour have I. Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 16 06:00:28 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07821 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:00:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fw.softwell.se (fw.softwell.se [193.15.236.45]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07816 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from trillian.softwell.se (trillian.softwell.se [192.168.0.1]) by fw.softwell.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26920 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:00:20 +0100 Received: (from bengt@localhost) by trillian.softwell.se (8.8.3/8.8.3) id MAA06424 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:00:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:00:19 +0100 From: Bengt Kleberg Message-Id: <199811161100.MAA06424@trillian.softwell.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How to use strdup()? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > It's mainly my part in making tcs(1) to library. greetings, is tcs, the unix version, considered "free"? may i use it if i remember to keep copyright notices and such? Best Wishes, Bengt =============================================================== Everything aforementioned should be regarded as totally private opinions, and nothing else. bengt@softwell.se ``His great strength is that he is uncompromising. It would make him physically ill to think of programming in C++.'' From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 03:59:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22825 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:59:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA22821 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:59:28 -0500 (EST) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199811180859.DAA22821@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:01:21 +0900 Subject: [9fans] Base64 mime encode/decode program Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I tried to make base64 encoding/decoding program to use with such as rin's header lines. This is a limited implementation of RFC 1341/1342. However, I believe this works for most cases. My basic policy is: Encoding whole text line as a part which means I don't care even if such a text cannnot be read from English terminal. This is because I believe no one have any interests on those text, even if a part can be read anyway. All or nothing should be the reasonable way in this case. I tested this program of decoding patrt by reading many Japanese articles from fj, but hadn't have any problem up to now. The encoding part is new. I also put new version of tcs library which would be neccessary to compile this program on our plan 9 site: http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/p9index.html which is written by UTF-8. Kenji --------cut here------ /* * MIME encode/decode test program for Japanese mode rin * Nov. 18, 1998 Kenji Okamoto * * char1 char2 char3 char4 * |----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 * |--------------|---------------|---------------| * 1 2 3 */ #include #include #include char *mime_decode(char *, char*); static char *decodeB64(char *); char * mime_decode(char *from, char *decoded) { char *mimest, *charst, *newline; char tbuff[150], tbuff2[150]; *decoded = 0; if(!(mimest = strstr(from, "=?"))) return(from); else { /* mime encoded */ if (charst = strstr(from, "ISO-2022-JP?")) charst += 12; else if(charst = strstr(from, "iso-2022-jp?")) charst += 12; else return(from); /* MIME but other than JIS */ } if(*charst++ != 'B') return(from); /* probably Q encoded */ charst++; /* top address of B64 encoded string */ /* if(*charst != 'G') return(from); not JIS */ strncpy(decoded, from, mimest-from); /* not encoded part */ decoded[mimest-from] = 0; mimest = strstr(charst, "?="); /* mimest=last address + 1 */ strncpy(tbuff, charst, mimest-charst); tbuff[mimest-charst] = 0; if(newline = strstr(tbuff, "\n\t")) { tbuff2[0] =0; strncat(tbuff2, tbuff, newline-tbuff); strcat(tbuff2+(newline-tbuff), newline+2); tbuff[0] = 0; strcat(tbuff, tbuff2); } decoded = strcat(decoded, decodeB64(tbuff)); return(decoded); } static char *decodeB64(char *from) { char decoded[150]; int char1, char2, char3, char4; int i=0,j=0; char base64[] = { -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, 62, -1, -1, -1, 63, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, }; decoded[0] = '\0'; while(from[i] != 0) { if((char1 = base64[from[i]]) == -1) return 0; if(from[i+1] == '=') { char2 = 0; decoded[j] = (char1 << 2) | ((char2 & 0x30) >> 4); decoded[j+1] = '\0'; break; }else if(from[i+2] == '=') { if((char2 = base64[from[i+1]]) == -1) return 0; char3 = 0; decoded[j] = (char1 << 2) | ((char2 & 0x30) >> 4); decoded[j+1] = ((char2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((char3 & 0x3c) >> 2); decoded[j+2] = '\0'; break; }else if(from[i+3] == '=') { if((char2 = base64[from[i+1]]) == -1) return 0; if((char3 = base64[from[i+2]]) == -1) return 0; char4 = 0; decoded[j] = (char1 << 2) | ((char2 & 0x30) >> 4); decoded[j+1] = ((char2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((char3 & 0x3c) >> 2); decoded[j+2] = ((char3 & 0x03) << 6) | char4; decoded[j+3] = '\0'; break; }else { if((char2 = base64[from[i+1]]) == -1) return 0; if((char3 = base64[from[i+2]]) == -1) return 0; if((char4 = base64[from[i+3]]) == -1) return 0; decoded[j] = (char1 << 2) | ((char2 & 0x30) >> 4); decoded[j+1] = ((char2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((char3 & 0x3c) >> 2); decoded[j+2] = ((char3 & 0x03) << 6) | char4; decoded[j+3] = '\0'; i+=4; j+=3; } } return(decoded); } /* * mime Base64 encode routine * K.Okamoto Nov. 18, 1998 */ static char B64charset[] = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/"; static int encodeB64(char*, char*); char *mime_encode(char*, char*); char *mime_encode(char *from, char *encoded) { char *jisstr, *ptr; char buff[100]; int i, j; ptr = encoded; while(*from) { if (*from >= ' ' && *from <= 0x7f) /* ASCII code */ *ptr++ = *from++; else if (*from == '\n' || *from == '\t') *ptr++ = *from++; else if (*from == '\033') { /* ESC sequence for JIS code */ j = 0; if (!strncmp(from, "\033$B", 3)) { /* JISIN */ strncpy(ptr, "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?", 16); jisstr = ptr + 16; j = encodeB64(from, jisstr); for(i=0;*jisstr;jisstr++, i++); ptr = ptr+i+16; strncpy(ptr, "?=", 2); ptr += 2; *ptr = 0; from += j; } } } if((i = strlen(encoded)) > 66) { /* folding og large length line */ strncpy(buff, encoded, 66); buff[66] = '\n'; buff[67] = '\t'; strncpy(buff+68, encoded+66, i-66); i += 2; while(*encoded) *encoded = 0; strncpy(encoded, buff, i); encoded[i] = 0; } return(encoded); } static int encodeB64(char *from, char *encoded) { int char1, char2, char3; char *first; first = from; while (char1 = *from++) { if (char2 = *from++) { if (char3 = *from++) { *encoded++ = B64charset[char1 >> 2]; *encoded++ = B64charset[((char1 & 0x3) << 4) | ((char2 & 0xF0) >> 4)]; *encoded++ = B64charset[((char2 & 0xF) << 2) | ((char3 & 0xC0) >> 6)]; *encoded++ = B64charset[char3 & 0x3F]; } else { *encoded++ = B64charset[char1 >> 2]; *encoded++ = B64charset[((char1 & 0x3) << 4) | ((char2 & 0xF0) >> 4)]; *encoded++ = B64charset[((char2 & 0xF) << 2) | ((0 & 0xC0) >> 6)]; *encoded++ = '='; break; } } else { *encoded++ = B64charset[char1 >> 2]; *encoded++ = B64charset[((char1 & 0x3) << 4) | ((0 & 0xF0) >> 4)]; *encoded++ = '='; *encoded++ = '='; break; } } *encoded = '\0'; return(from-first); } void * main(void) { char txt[150]; char encoded[150]; uchar outp[150]; int i; for(i=0;i<150;i++) outp[i]=0; for(i=0;i<150;i++) txt[i] = 0; strcpy(txt, "Re: $B$3$l$O(HmimeB64$B$N%F%9%H$G$9(H."); print("\noriginal text = %s\n", txt); tcs((uchar*)txt, outp, "jis", "utf"); print("\nvisible original text = %s\n", (char *)outp); for(i=0;i<150; i++) encoded[i] = 0; mime_encode(txt, encoded); print("\nencoded string = %s\n", encoded); for(i=0;i<150;i++) txt[i]=0; print("\ndecoded string = %s\n", mime_decode(encoded, txt)); } -----end of this mail------ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 16:05:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04954 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:05:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04949 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:05:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01627 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:02:47 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18455 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:02:51 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <365336C6.DCB3B78A@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:06:14 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory References: <199811151817.NAA28171@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I'd like to map and unmap pages of memory. In Unix there exists map and unmap functions defined in /usr/include/sys/mman.h. How could I use these functions in Plan 9? Franklin. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 16:14:45 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05289 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:14:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05285 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:14:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811182114.QAA05285@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:13:47 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: re: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Depending on what sort of memory you want to map and unmap, segattach might be what you're looking for. There's no mmap() that does memory-mapped files. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 17:38:41 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07289 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07278 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:38:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03208 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:36:05 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28358 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:36:07 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <36534CA3.285BE557@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:39:31 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory References: <199811182114.QAA05285@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I got the following benchmark which is part of Hbench benchmarks (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~vino/perf/hbench/): bw_mmap_rd - Read bandwith from an mmap()'d File Description: This test measures the attainable bandwith when reading from a file that has been freshly mmap'd into memory, but not yet touched. The file is pre-read so as to be in the virtual memory system's page cache. It thus can be used as an indirect measure of the virtual memory system overhead. /* * Copyright (c) 1997 The President and Fellows of Harvard College. * All rights reserved. * Copyright (c) 1997 Aaron B. Brown. * Copyright (c) 1994 Larry McVoy. * * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or * (at your option) any later version. * * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the * GNU General Public License for more details. * * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License * along with this program, in the file COPYING in this distribution; * if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, * Cambridge, MA 02139, USA. * * This work is derived from, but can no longer be called, lmbench. * Results obtained from this benchmark may be published only under the * name "HBench-OS". */ /* * bw_mmap_rd.c - time reading & summing of a file using mmap * * Usage: bw_mmap_rd size file * * Without hardware counters, sizes less than 2m are not recommended. * Memory is read by summing it up so the numbers include the cost of * the adds. If you use sizes large enough, you can compare to * bw_mem_rd and get the cost of TLB fills (very roughly). * * We don't do an internal iteration loop in this benchmark since mmap * read cannot be repeated (if we did, we'd lose the interesting timing * from the initial read). * The benchmark is structured in the iterative form for consistency, though. * * Based on: * $lmbenchId: bw_mmap_rd.c,v 1.3 1995/10/26 01:03:42 lm Exp $ * * $Id: bw_mmap_rd.c,v 1.8 1997/06/27 00:33:58 abrown Exp $ */ char *id = "$Id: bw_mmap_rd.c,v 1.8 1997/06/27 00:33:58 abrown Exp $\n"; #include "common.c" #include #include /* * Use unsigned int: supposedly the "optimal" transfer size for a given * architecture. */ #ifndef TYPE #define TYPE unsigned int #endif #ifndef SIZE #define SIZE sizeof(TYPE) #endif #define CHK(x) if ((int)(x) == -1) { perror("x"); exit(1); } /* * The worker function. We don't really need it here; it is just to make * the structure parallel the other tests. */ int do_mmapread(); /* * Global variables: these are the parameters required by the worker routine. * We make them global to avoid portability problems with variable argument * lists and the gen_iterations function */ unsigned int bytes; /* the number of bytes to be read */ int fd; /* file descriptor of open file */ main(ac, av) int ac; char **av; { clk_t totaltime; unsigned int xferred; struct stat sbuf; int niter; /* print out RCS ID to stderr*/ fprintf(stderr, "%s", id); /* Check command-line arguments */ if (parse_counter_args(&ac, &av) || ac != 4) { fprintf(stderr, "Usage: %s%s ignored size file\n", av[0], counter_argstring); exit(1); } /* parse command line parameters */ niter = atoi(av[1]); bytes = parse_bytes(av[2]); CHK(fd = open(av[3], 0)); CHK(fstat(fd, &sbuf)); if (bytes > sbuf.st_size) { fprintf(stderr, "%s: is too small; %d bytes requested but only" " %d available\n", av[3], bytes, sbuf.st_size); exit(1); } /* * The gory calculation on the next line computes the actual number of * bytes tranferred by the unrolled loop. */ xferred = (200*SIZE)*((((bytes/SIZE)-200)+199)/200); if (xferred == 0) { fprintf(stderr, "error: buffer size too small: must be at " "least %d bytes.\n",201*SIZE); printf("\n"); exit(1); } /* initialize timing module (calculates timing overhead, etc) */ init_timing(); /* Get the number of iterations */ if (niter == 0) { /* We always do 1 iteration here */ printf("1\n"); return (0); } /* * Take the real data */ #ifndef COLD_CACHE do_mmapread(1, &totaltime); /* prime the cache */ #endif do_mmapread(1, &totaltime); /* get cached reread */ output_bandwidth(xferred, totaltime); return (0); } /* * This function does all the work. It reads "bytes" from "fd" * "num_iter" times via mmap and reports the total time in whatever * unit our clock is using. * * Note that num_iter > 1 is not useful in dealing with low-resolution * timers, since each loop is timed individually. * * Returns 0 if the benchmark was successful, and -1 if there were too many * iterations. */ int do_mmapread(num_iter, t) int num_iter; clk_t *t; { /* * Global parameters * * unsigned int bytes; * int fd; */ register TYPE *p; register unsigned long sum; register TYPE *end; int i; TYPE *where; /* Try to map in the file */ #ifdef MAP_FILE CHK(where = (TYPE *)mmap(0, bytes, PROT_READ, MAP_FILE|MAP_SHARED, fd, 0)); #else CHK(where = (TYPE *)mmap(0, bytes, PROT_READ, MAP_SHARED, fd, 0)); #endif p = where; #define TWENTY sum += p[0]+p[1]+p[2]+p[3]+p[4]+p[5]+p[6]+p[7]+p[8]+p[9]+ \ p[10]+p[11]+p[12]+p[13]+p[14]+p[15]+p[16]+p[17]+p[18]+p[19]; \ p += 20; #define HUNDRED TWENTY TWENTY TWENTY TWENTY TWENTY sum = 0; end = where + (bytes/SIZE) - 200; *t = 0; /* Do the read num_iter times, remapping the file each time around */ for (i = num_iter; i > 0; i--) { munmap((char *)where, bytes); #ifdef MAP_FILE CHK(where = (TYPE *)mmap(0, bytes, PROT_READ, MAP_FILE|MAP_SHARED, fd, 0)); #else CHK(where = (TYPE *)mmap(0, bytes, PROT_READ, MAP_SHARED, fd, 0)); #endif start(); for (p = where; p < end; ) { HUNDRED HUNDRED } *t += stop(sum); } /* Remove our mapping */ munmap((char *)where, bytes); return(0); } The problem is in mmap and munmap functions which are defined in /usr/include/sys/mman.h (UNIX). Franklin. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 18:40:08 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08401 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:40:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08397 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:39:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811182339.SAA08397@cse.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:28:45 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: Re: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu That test from hBench-OS is measuring the speed of the memory-mapped file calls, which don't exist in Plan 9. The necessary hooks are there and are being used to load executable images -- a long time ago I thought about proposing an extension to segattach to accept "file!n" where n is an open file descriptor as at least a read-only mmap. I'ld be interested to hear what numbers you got out of hBench under Plan 9 on a particular machine as compared with that same exact machine running say Linux or one of the BSDs. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 18 23:40:36 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12757 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:40:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from krystal.com (2860423339517020349@krystal-gate.BSDI.COM [205.230.227.71]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12753 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:40:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from prb@localhost) by krystal.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA11114; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:38:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:38:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811190438.WAA11114@krystal.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Paul Borman Subject: Re: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Please be careful on how you read the numbers from hbench-OS. At least the networking numbers are probably not measuring what you think. The benchmarks are flawed in several aspects and actually measure different things on different OS's. I have not examined their benchmarks of map and unmap, however, if they are as simplistic as the networking benchmarks they they are probably measuring something that is related, but not quite what you expect. -Paul Borman prb@bsdi.com PS: A good benchmark is often hard to write > From: "Russ Cox" > Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu > Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:28:45 -0500 > Subject: Re: [9fans] map and unmap pages of memory > To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > > That test from hBench-OS is measuring the speed of the > memory-mapped file calls, which don't exist in Plan 9. ... > I'ld be interested to hear what numbers you got > out of hBench under Plan 9 on a particular machine as compared > with that same exact machine running say Linux or one of > the BSDs. > > Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 04:18:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14977 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:18:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14973 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:18:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id BAA13296; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:18:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:18:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811190918.BAA13296@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu using BIND, a process can customize a namespace so that /big/long/file/name can be referred to as /biggie. is there a way to *remove* /big/long/file/name from the namespace as seen from a particular process? why would one want to do that? well, suppose that I want to run a game that does not need the network. before I run the game, I remove the file that "exports" (terminology?) the network interface from the game's namespace so that it impossible for the game to act as a trojan horse. so, it is useful for security reasons. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 07:11:04 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15948 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:11:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cegelecproj.co.uk (ganymede.cegelecproj.co.uk [194.216.105.6]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15944 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:10:58 -0500 (EST) From: steve_kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk Received: from vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (cerberus.cegelecproj.co.uk) by cegelecproj.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10089; Thu, 19 Nov 98 12:10:22 GMT Received: from spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk (spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk [172.16.34.71]) by vampire.cegelecproj.co.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA20601 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:10:21 GMT Received: by spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 802566C1.004324B6 ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:13:23 +0000 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: CEGELECPROJ To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Message-Id: <802566C1.004308FA.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:13:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On 19/11/98 09:18:25 Richard Uhtenwoldt wrote: > why would one want to do that? well, suppose that I > want to run a game that does not need the network. > before I run the game, I remove the file that "exports" > (terminology?) the network interface from the game's > namespace so that it impossible for the game to act as a > trojan horse. so, it is useful for security reasons. Wrong way round. You create a new namespace, using rfork(), and only attach to it the parts of the system that you need. See the ftp and http servers for examples. steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 08:22:03 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16695 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:22:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk (qmailr@pat.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16689 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9915 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1998 13:21:42 -0000 Received: from ss1.bath.ac.uk (HELO bath.ac.uk) (mmdf@138.38.32.41) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 19 Nov 1998 13:21:42 -0000 Received: from GATEWAY by bath.ac.uk with netnews for 9fans@bath.ac.uk (9fans@cse.psu.edu) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:06:48 GMT From: Jennifer Radtke Message-ID: Organization: USENIX Association Subject: [9fans] OSDI '99: Program Available Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu 3rd Symposium on Operating Systems Design and Implementation OSDI '99 February 22-25, 1999 New Orleans, LA, USA Sponsored by the USENIX Association Co-Sponsored by IEEE TCOS and ACM SIGOPS The Future in Operating Systems Research and Innovation-- Engage in Open Discussion and Hear Multiple Points of View ============================================= For Detailed Program and Online Registration: http://www.usenix.org/events/osdi99 ============================================= World Wide Web an OS Issue? Hear Why in the Keynote by Jim Gettys, Compaq Computer Corporation ATTEND THESE ADVANCED TUTORIALS IN: Building Security (for Developers) Marcus J. Ranum, Network Flight Recorder Windows NT Internals Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems Deploying and Benchmarking Web Caches Peter Danzig, Network Appliance and USC and Alex Rousskov, National Laboratory for Applied Network Research (NLANR) REFEREED PAPERS Discuss Latest Results of Innovative Research and Experience in: * I/O * Resource Management * Kernels * Real-Time * Distributed Systems * Virtual Memory * Filesystems HIGHLY INTERACTIVE SESSIONS AND INFORMAL GET-TOGETHERS * Works-in-Progress * Panel Discussion on Virtual Memory-Based Operating Systems * Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions * Sunday evening Welcome Reception * Tuesday Evening Symposium Reception ============================================================== USENIX is the not-for-profit Advanced Computing Systems Association with an international membership of technical professionals. ============================================================== For Detailed Program and Online Registration on OSDI'99: http://www.usenix.org/events/osdi99 From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 10:24:02 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19290 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:24:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19283 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:23:55 -0500 (EST) From: presotto@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811191523.KAA19283@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:22:35 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu You might want to do something that we did in inferno also. We added a system call that disables a process' ability to dereference '#xxxx' names, i.e., local devices. That way, once you've built a namespace, you can keep anyone from adding things to it that you don't already have access to. That gives you a more secure sandbox to play in. To build a safe namespace, you really wan't one where you can't expose files via unbinding. For example, hiding /x/y/x by binding an empty directory onto /x/y isn't very safe since the program can unbind it. You would be best served by buidling a namespace starting at the root and working your way down. For example: # create a sandbox mkdir sandbox/x mkdir sandbox/x/bin mkdir sandbox/dev > sandbox/dev/cons > sandbox/dev/mouse > sandbox/dev/time mkdir sandbox/tmp # bind things into it bind -c /386/safebin sandbox/x/bin bind -c /dev/cons sandbox/x/dev/cons bind -c /dev/mouse sandbox/x/dev/mouse bind -c /dev/time sandbox/x/dev/time # replace the root bind -c sandbox/x / magic call to turn off '#' access At this point you can exec a game and it will be hard pressed to get to things outside the original namespace though it can still change its namespace. ------ forwarded message follows ------ >From cse.psu.edu!owner-9fans Thu Nov 19 04:19:52 EST 1998 Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Thu Nov 19 04:19:52 EST 1998 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Thu Nov 19 04:19:51 EST 1998 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA15022; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:18:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14977 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:18:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14973 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:18:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id BAA13296; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:18:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:18:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811190918.BAA13296@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk using BIND, a process can customize a namespace so that /big/long/file/name can be referred to as /biggie. is there a way to *remove* /big/long/file/name from the namespace as seen from a particular process? why would one want to do that? well, suppose that I want to run a game that does not need the network. before I run the game, I remove the file that "exports" (terminology?) the network interface from the game's namespace so that it impossible for the game to act as a trojan horse. so, it is useful for security reasons. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 10:54:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20142 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:54:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from glenlivet.ohm.york.ac.uk (glenlivet.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.136.21]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20132 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from talisker.ohm.york.ac.uk ([144.32.136.89]) by glenlivet.ohm.york.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #2) id 0zgWOh-00013A-00 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:53:31 +0000 Received: (from rog@localhost) by talisker.ohm.york.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8/1.0) id PAA00770 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:53:35 GMT Message-Id: <199811191553.PAA00770@talisker.ohm.york.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Roger Peppe Date: Thu, 19 Nov 98 15:53:34 GMT To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Reply-To: rog@ohm.york.ac.uk References: <199811191523.KAA19283@cse.psu.edu> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > # create a sandbox > mkdir sandbox/x > mkdir sandbox/x/bin > mkdir sandbox/dev > > sandbox/dev/cons > > sandbox/dev/mouse > > sandbox/dev/time > mkdir sandbox/tmp > > # bind things into it > bind -c /386/safebin sandbox/x/bin > bind -c /dev/cons sandbox/x/dev/cons > bind -c /dev/mouse sandbox/x/dev/mouse > bind -c /dev/time sandbox/x/dev/time > > # replace the root > bind -c sandbox/x / > magic call to turn off '#' access > > At this point you can exec a game and it will be hard > pressed to get to things outside the original namespace > though it can still change its namespace. does this guarantee that if you cd to sandbox/x/bin/.. you will be in sandbox/x, not /386? i found the semantics of ".." always seemed rather unobvious within the plan 9 namespace (particularly with union directories...) is there a simple way of understanding it? cheers, rog. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 15:48:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26609 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:48:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA26602 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:48:47 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811192048.PAA26602@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:49:17 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>is there a simple way of understanding it? i believe .. simply picks one of the parents. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 19 23:16:55 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04286 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:16:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04282 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:16:49 -0500 (EST) From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com Message-Id: <199811200416.XAA04282@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:12:52 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu > does this guarantee that if you cd to sandbox/x/bin/.. > you will be in sandbox/x, not /386? > i found the semantics of ".." always seemed rather unobvious within > the plan 9 namespace (particularly with union directories...) > is there a simple way of understanding it? The Black Knight says, "It's just a flesh wound!" - D. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 20 02:05:21 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06662 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:05:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06656 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ru@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id XAA05146; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:05:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:05:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811200705.XAA05146@ohio.river.org> From: Richard Uhtenwoldt To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space In-Reply-To: <802566C1.004308FA.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk> References: <802566C1.004308FA.00@spectre.cegelecproj.co.uk> Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Thanks to Steve Kilbane and "presotto" for answering my question. -- to mail me, replace "roo" with "ru". From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 20 02:15:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06879 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:15:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06875 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:15:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id XAA02517 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma911546130.002514; Thu, 19 Nov 98 23:15:30 -0800 Received: by symnt3.Cadence.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:15:58 -0000 Message-ID: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE95F@symnt3.Cadence.COM> From: Nigel Roles To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] removing a name from the name space Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:15:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Brilliant! That really brightened up my day working with an inferior OS. -----Original Message----- From: dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com [mailto:dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com] Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 4:13 AM To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] removing a name from the name space > does this guarantee that if you cd to sandbox/x/bin/.. > you will be in sandbox/x, not /386? > i found the semantics of ".." always seemed rather unobvious within > the plan 9 namespace (particularly with union directories...) > is there a simple way of understanding it? The Black Knight says, "It's just a flesh wound!" - D. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 20 12:45:35 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16605 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:45:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16600 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08593 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:41:54 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00134 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:41:54 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <3655AAAC.73DEA3F5@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:45:16 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] Malloc References: <199811151817.NAA28171@cse.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I'd like to allocate a block of memory of at least 32MB (my PC have only 64MB). I'm using malloc, but when I compile using 8c I can allocate only 16MB and when I use pcc I can allocate only 8MB. Franklin. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Nov 20 13:41:24 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17956 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:41:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA17951 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:41:09 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811201841.NAA17951@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:42:05 GMT Subject: Re: [9fans] Malloc Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu the limit isn't really a function of the compiler, since pcc uses the same one, but APE's libraries are typically larger. the problem is possibly a kernel limit on the PC: check that you don't need to change SEGMAPSIZE in /sys/src/9/pc/mem.h #define SEGMAPSIZE 64 /* 16 is for wooses */ i think this is in the FAQ somewhere, which you might check for details (in case anything else is required). perhaps /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/malloc.c needs similar changes to /sys/src/libc/port/malloc.c (which are in a boddle somewhere). From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun Nov 22 02:04:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05848 for 9fans-outgoing; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:04:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA05844 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:04:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811220704.CAA05844@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 9168 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1998 07:04:12 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 22 Nov 1998 07:04:12 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: [9fans] auth/key for pilot? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9159.911718251.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:04:11 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Anyone know if there is a challenge/response program for the 3com pilot that works with the Plan9 system? Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Nov 24 20:54:26 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29046 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:54:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from aubrey.stanford.edu (qmailr@aubrey.Stanford.EDU [36.48.0.102]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA29042 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:54:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811250154.UAA29042@cse.psu.edu> Received: (qmail 29444 invoked from network); 25 Nov 1998 01:54:15 -0000 Received: from localhost.stanford.edu (HELO aubrey.stanford.edu) (jimr@127.0.0.1) by localhost.stanford.edu with SMTP; 25 Nov 1998 01:54:15 -0000 X-url: http://highwire.stanford.edu/~jimr/ X-face: "!ZH^<"U,NeU:732A To: "Plan 9 Mailing List" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> cc: jimr@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/key for pilot? X-followup-to: My Message of "Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:04:11 -0800." <199811220704.CAA05844@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <29433.911958855.1@aubrey.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:54:15 -0800 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:04:11 -0800 I wrote: < Anyone know if there is a challenge/response < program for the 3com pilot that works with the < Plan9 system? And I want to thank presotto & forsythe for pointing me toward the Pilot PRC: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/netkey.prc and for the pilot and other systems: http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/netkey.html Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Nov 25 03:21:38 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02919 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:21:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02915 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:21:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id AAA29387 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma911982086.029375; Wed, 25 Nov 98 00:21:27 -0800 Received: by symnt3.Cadence.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:21:54 -0000 Message-ID: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE983@symnt3.Cadence.COM> From: Nigel Roles To: Plan 9 Mailing List <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] auth/key for pilot? Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:21:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I also have netkey for the Psion 5.... -----Original Message----- From: James A. Robinson [mailto:Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 1:54 AM To: Plan 9 Mailing List Cc: jimr@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] auth/key for pilot? On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:04:11 -0800 I wrote: < Anyone know if there is a challenge/response < program for the 3com pilot that works with the < Plan9 system? And I want to thank presotto & forsythe for pointing me toward the Pilot PRC: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/netkey.prc and for the pilot and other systems: http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/plan9/soft/netkey.html Jim From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 26 06:38:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21542 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:38:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA21534 for <9fans@cs.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:38:40 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199811261138.GAA21534@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:40:43 GMT Subject: [9fans] dial M for Minimalism Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu as a doctor, i am often asked ``why doesn't Plan 9 (or Inferno) use the `standard' socket calls?'' the source of tcpblast.c was recently posted to this list. it makes a tcp/ip call to a given machine. the bits that do so are shown below (i have completed the code that looks up the service name): #include #include #include #include ... struct sockaddr_in sock_in; struct servent *sp; struct hostent *host; ... memset(&sock_in, 0, sizeof (sock_in)); sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; f = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (f < 0) { perror("tcpblast: socket"); exit(3); } if (bind(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof (sock_in)) < 0) { perror("tcpblast: bind"); exit(1); } host = gethostbyname(argv[1]); if (host) { sock_in.sin_family = host->h_addrtype; memmove(&sock_in.sin_addr, host->h_addr, host->h_length); } else { sock_in.sin_family = AF_INET; sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr(argv[1]); if (sock_in.sin_addr.s_addr == -1) { fprintf(stderr, "tcpblast: %s unknown host\n", argv[1]); exit(1); } } sp = getservbyname("discard", "tcp"); if (sp) sock_in.sin_port = sp->s_port; else sock_in.sin_port = htons(9); if (connect(f, (struct sockaddr*) &sock_in, sizeof(sock_in)) <0) { perror("tcpblast connect:"); exit(1); } by contrast, in my variant for Plan 9, i wrote: #include #include ... fd = dial(netmkaddr(argv[0], "tcp", "discard"), nil, nil, nil); if(fd < 0){ fprint(2, "tcpbuzz: can't dial %s: %r\n", argv[0]); exits("dial"); } the nil, nil, nil looks and sounds like a Eurovision Song Contest score, which is perhaps a blemish. (each nil represents a default that more specialised applications can set to access such things as port number assignment and the connection's control and status files. Inferno's dial interface is simpler still, partly because of the use of Limbo tuples.) apart from that, the incantation is straightforward and easy to write. because the interface and underlying infrastructure provides a good degree of abstraction, it also works without change for all suitable network types and protocols; it isn't limited to TCP/IP or IP networks. the connection service and name space together sort out the details; that the network files live in the per-process name space also enables the same code to dial through an imported gateway. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 26 06:38:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21554 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:38:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from grande.dcc.unicamp.br (grande.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.1.11]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21536 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:38:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.7.11]) by grande.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28783 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:58 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dcc.unicamp.br (mercurio.dcc.unicamp.br [143.106.24.117]) by amazonas.dcc.unicamp.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01481 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:59 -0200 (EDT) Message-ID: <365D3DF1.27CBD833@dcc.unicamp.br> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:39:29 -0200 From: Franklin <973930@dcc.unicamp.br> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] RC shell References: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE983@symnt3.Cadence.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu In Plan 9, how can I use the command: cat $TESTS | while read TESTLINE do ... done In Plan 9: TESTS = full.test cat $TESTS | while (read TESTLINE){ } term% rc program_rc TESTLINE: file does not exist Franklin. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 26 07:29:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22027 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:29:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22023 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:29:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id EAA03026 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma912083385.003018; Thu, 26 Nov 98 04:29:45 -0800 Received: by symnt3.Cadence.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:30:14 -0000 Message-ID: <9E919A2F71B2D111877A006097AF45FA6DE993@symnt3.Cadence.COM> From: Nigel Roles To: "'9fans@cse.psu.edu'" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: RE: [9fans] dial M for Minimalism Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:30:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu as a doctor, i am often asked ``why doesn't Plan 9 (or Inferno) use the `standard' socket calls?'' Shurley some mishqoute here (ed)? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Thu Nov 26 10:40:52 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22900 for 9fans-outgoing; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:40:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA22896 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:40:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811261540.KAA22896@cse.psu.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:36:47 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: re: [9fans] RC shell Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu #!/bin/sh TESTS=full.test cat $TESTS | while(TESTLINE=`{read}) { ... } that clip look suspiciously like an hbench maindriver script. is there a reason to rewrite it rather than just run it under ape/psh? From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 30 15:43:47 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05299 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:43:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from pixar.com (pixar.pixar.com [138.72.10.20]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05294 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from marvin.pixar.com (marvin.pixar.com [138.72.30.83]) by pixar.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA24451 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by marvin.pixar.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0zka6q-00HelBC; Mon, 30 Nov 98 12:39 PST From: "Tom Duff" Message-Id: <9811301239.ZM28204@marvin> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:39:52 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Russ Cox" "re: [9fans] RC shell" (Nov 26, 10:36am) References: <199811261540.KAA22896@cse.psu.edu> Reply-To: td@pixar.com X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] RC shell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Nov 26, 10:36am, Russ Cox wrote: > Subject: re: [9fans] RC shell > #!/bin/sh > TESTS=full.test > > cat $TESTS | > while(TESTLINE=`{read}) { > ... > } I would write #!/bin/rc TESTS=full.test ifs=' ' # newline only for(TESTLINE in `{cat $TESTS}){ ... } but what do I know? -- Tom Duff. I hate quotations. -Ralph Waldo Emerson From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 30 17:57:33 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08069 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:57:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fw1.tek.com (fw1.tek.com [192.65.17.16]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08064 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: pat@hacker.isdn2.tek.com Received: from fw1.tek.com (root@localhost) by fw1.tek.com with ESMTP id OAA27295 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from hacker.isdn2.tek.com (host141.isdn2.tek.com [128.181.205.141]) by fw1.tek.com with SMTP id OAA27291 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:57:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811302257.OAA27291@fw1.tek.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:48:37 PST Subject: [9fans] pop3 client Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu I would like to access mail on a unix server running pop3 from my plan9 system without having to 'con' to a unix host. Any suggestions? Is there a pop3 client up and running in plan9 which integrates to upas? Thanks for the help. Pat reply-to: pat.hacker@tek.com From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 30 18:18:59 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08464 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:18:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08460 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:18:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811302318.SAA08460@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:02:43 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "Russ Cox" Subject: re: [9fans] pop3 client Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu There's a pop3 client I wrote and used for a while a year ago at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/~rsc/pop3get.c It's somewhat rough, but if you're willing to spend a little time hacking at it it's probably fairly usable. The invocation was something like pop3get -drN maxsize -s secretfile server -d deletes the messages when done. if you don't delete, you'll get the same messages next time. -r reads the mail box in reverse order; you won't need this flag. -N max sets a maximum message size to download. -s secretfile reads a password from file. pop3get downloads the mail and then runs upas/sendmail to deliver it to the local user. There are references to MD5 routines from a non-existant to do challenge-response authentication. If all you want is password, just comment out the MD5 calls and specify the -p flag to use plaintext passwords. If you want challenge-response, you can probably pull the appropriate MD5 code from /sys/src/cmd/md5sum.c Finally, you'll see that the sendmail call calls upas/mysendmail and not upas/sendmail. I think the difference was that mysendmail pulled the sender from the From: line if there was no Unix-style From line; that was some bit of ugliness I never got around. I don't remember. Like I said, it's a little rough in places, but it's a start. I'ld be interested in any changes. An alternative place to look would be Eric Raymond's fetchmail, which does a functionally similar thing; I don't know how hard it would be to port to Plan 9. It delivers the mail by connecting to port 25 of the local machine, so you'ld need to be running smtpd, and you'ld need David Butler's loopback device to get 127.0.0.1. Russ From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 30 19:54:15 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09957 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:54:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from caldo.demon.co.uk (caldo.demon.co.uk [194.222.207.148]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09952 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk Message-Id: <199812010054.TAA09952@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:56:59 GMT Subject: re: [9fans] pop3 client Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >>it would be to port to Plan 9. It delivers the mail by connecting >>to port 25 of the local machine, so you'ld need to be running >>smtpd, and you'ld need David Butler's loopback device to get 127.>>0.0.1. alternatively, just pipe: cat /bin/service/tcp25 and follow instructions, for the far end of the pipe. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Nov 30 20:07:49 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10224 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:07:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10220 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:07:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10537 invoked by uid 991); 1 Dec 1998 01:07:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19981201010744.10536.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> Date: 30 Nov 1998 20:07:44 -0500 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] pop3 client In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:56:59 GMT." <199812010054.TAA09952@cse.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:07:44 -0500 From: Scott Schwartz Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Actually fetchmail has an option to run the delivery agent of your choice. tcp25 is just the default. Drifting away from pop for a moment, a 9p interface to imap would be somewhat more interesting, as well as more in the plan9 spirit.