From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Oct 4 20:55:33 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25930 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA25924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:55:21 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199910050055.UAA25924@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:55:06 +0900 Subject: [9fans] namespace or file name space? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is just concerned with terminology of a concept in Plan 9. In the papers where "file hierarchy" are concerned, the term "file name space" is used. On the other hand, Programmer's Manual Volume 1 says namespace(4) and namespace(6). Can I use those words with the same meaning? Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Oct 4 23:34:39 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28832 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:34:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA28825 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910050334.XAA28825@cse.psu.edu> From: Dave Presotto Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:34:09 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] namespace or file name space? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lhijgwehtekccgbgbuptcqntox" Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lhijgwehtekccgbgbuptcqntox Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit namespace is the best. you can say file name space if you want but I would prefer namespace. --upas-lhijgwehtekccgbgbuptcqntox Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com ([135.104.9.2]) by plan9; Mon Oct 4 21:15:26 EDT 1999 Received: from cse.psu.edu ([130.203.3.50]) by plan9; Mon Oct 4 21:15:25 EDT 1999 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA25998; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by claven.cse.psu.edu (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:55:45 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25930 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA25924 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:55:21 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199910050055.UAA25924@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:55:06 +0900 Subject: [9fans] namespace or file name space? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk This is just concerned with terminology of a concept in Plan 9. In the papers where "file hierarchy" are concerned, the term "file name space" is used. On the other hand, Programmer's Manual Volume 1 says namespace(4) and namespace(6). Can I use those words with the same meaning? Kenji --upas-lhijgwehtekccgbgbuptcqntox-- From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Oct 5 04:47:32 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02492 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:47:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp (granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp [157.16.91.52]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA02488 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:47:27 -0400 (EDT) From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp Message-Id: <199910050847.EAA02488@cse.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:47:09 +0900 Subject: Re: [9fans] namespace or file name space? Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu >namespace is the best. you can say file name space if you want but >I would prefer namespace. Then, I'll follow you. Thanks Kenji From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Tue Oct 5 13:49:28 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13767 for 9fans-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:49:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from bio.cse.psu.edu (galapagos.cse.psu.edu [130.203.12.17]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13761 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24392 invoked by uid 991); 5 Oct 1999 17:49:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19991005174921.24391.qmail@g.bio.cse.psu.edu> From: steve.kilbane@ind.alstom.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:03:18 +0100 Subject: [9fans] Sun Ray: Deja vu Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Sun's web site is currently full of "Sun Ray", its devastating new breakthrough in systems design, moving all the computation back into a central powerful server, and putting dumb, exchangable bitmap/keyboard/mouse units on the desktop. Right. It has a number of interesting aspects, not least of which is the bandwidth required. Instead of using something like bit(3) to do rendering on the terminal, Sun Ray has X clients render into a virtual frame buffer on the server, which is then zapped across to the terminal. This might be one of the reasons why Sun Ray requires a dedicated switched network, rather than being on the LAN. I didn't spot any mention of the distinction between cpu and file servers (since the server runs Solaris, I guess they're combined). As far as this goes, there is a solid border between cpu server and terminal: the terminal does no application processing. Authentication can be via normal login, or smart cards, with a smart card reader built into the terminal base unit. An interesting side-effect of using a proxy X server on the server is that sessions need not be terminated when you detach. They can continue, and be recovered when you log in again, at another terminal. Another devastating breakthrough, although there is no mention of "Teleporting", which Olivetti Labs did in the early 90s using proxy X servers. Supposedly, Citrix WinFrame stuff can be used to display Wintel apps on the same screen, seemingly at the same time, and with cut'n'paste between the Solaris and Wintel apps. Plus, Sun are pushing StarOffice as a means of getting access to most of what Wintel's needed for, without requiring Wintel client licences. Roughly speaking, this seems to take the hardware/administration aspects of the Plan 9 model, and apply them in a blunt manner to the existing Solaris system, with no other changes. I vaguely recall Brazil having a different graphics model, more suited to exploiting high-bandwidth networks. That wouldn't be another unrecognised ancestor of this, would it? steve From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Oct 11 18:12:45 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20087 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:12:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20083 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 6625hvt3r227 (209-239-207-52.oak.jps.net [209.239.207.52]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA02709 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "kim kubik" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Sun Ray: Deja vu Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:15:59 -0700 Message-ID: <01bf1436$324c1660$34cfefd1@6625hvt3r227> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The following came across: -----Original Message----- From: steve.kilbane@ind.alstom.com To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 10:55 AM Subject: [9fans] Sun Ray: Deja vu > >Sun's web site is currently full of "Sun Ray", its devastating new breakthrough >in systems design, moving all the computation back into a central powerful >server, and putting dumb, exchangable bitmap/keyboard/mouse units on the >desktop. > >Roughly speaking, this seems to take the hardware/administration aspects of the >Plan 9 model, and apply them in a blunt manner to the existing Solaris system, >with no other changes. > >I vaguely recall Brazil having a different graphics model, more suited to >exploiting high-bandwidth networks. That wouldn't be another unrecognised >ancestor of this, would it? > >steve > and so: (DANGER: Long Boring Message Ahead) This idea of local processing for the interactive user stuff and 'down the wire' processing of the big stuff and the storage is nearly thirty years old. A lot had the beginnings at Cambrdige (UK), but without the benefit of the DARPA billions available in the US, much of this work never got beyond the prototype/proof of concept stage. Obviously, there won't an exact one-to-one mapping for systems using 1999 hardware (e.g. SunRay), but the fundamental approach is quite similar. For example, 'RAINBOW - A Multi-Purpose CAD System' (Software-Practice & Experience (1972) v2, p239) describes a distributed system with a PDP-7 on the user desk (whopping 8K of store) with light pen, stylus tablet, teletype, and CRT, connected to a TITAN computing system with 128K store, paper and mag tapes, plotters/printers, etc. To quote, "give users many of the facilities of fully interactive computing without the overhead of stagnant programs in core awaiting terminal I/O." If you look at dmr's 'History of Unix' pages you'll see that sperm-meets-egg at the scanned PDF of Martin Richards BCPL manual, given to Ken Thompson (I assume) while Richards was at MIT on sabbatical from Cambridge. Richards was a rather unprolific publisher, but you find his ideas pervading almost everything with a cpu these days. I assume he lectured to Bjarne Stroustrup and gave him a few pointers on techniques for handling complexity in large systems, maybe even pointing him to the 'Lauer-Needham Duality Hypothesis'. At Xerox PARC during this period (the mid-1970s) Warren Teitelman brought some ideas from MIT, e.g. 'A Display Oriented Programmer's Assistant' (Int. J. Man-Machine Studies (1979) v11, p157), an InterLisp system which the user had a minicomputer to handle the bit-map display, windows and mouse, with PDP-10/Tenex networked in to run the Lisp interpreter. The Acme/Wily folks might recognize the meaning of a quote from that paper: "any text that is displayed on the screen can be pointed at and treated as input, exactly as though it were typed." And if you check AT&T's 'new' Cambrige Labs (www.cam-orl.co.uk/ring.html) you'll see that "the first high speed digital network platform was the Cambridge Fast Ring." One project that utilized this slotted ring was an update of the RAINBOW, this one using a 68000 cpu and 2901 bit-slice processor to handle the display and window system. This distributed system used Martin Richards TRIPOS (Software-Practice & Experience (1979), v9, p513) portable OS on the desktop machine, the file servers, and the minicomputers in the 'cpu pool' or 'processor bank'. This gave invariant response time for user interaction but will full scale processing available down-the-wire'. They even developed a fonts & typesetting system ('use ELF for your elf-abets') and the Rainbow allowed "an undergraduate project to enable eight different published methods for performing the anti-aliasing calculation to be compared. Only a windowing display with grey-level capability could do this at all, and only the Rainbow could do it as responsively." ('Computer Bulletin' (Dec. 1995, p. 25). And to finish up, at PARC (they did a lot of cross-breeding with Cambridge) Warren Teitelman published "A Tour Through Cedar" (IEEE Software,(1984) v1, n2, p.44) which describes a networked environment using the Dorado on the desktop and 'tiling' on the screen: "it is one of the most widely discussed aspects of the Cedar user interface, and often leads to heated, religious debates between its adherents and advocates of overlapping windows." And then Teitelman went to Sun Microsystems. And now we have the fabulous 'new' SunRay. The future's so bright I gotta wear shades. From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Oct 13 13:03:17 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02643 for 9fans-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:03:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from plan9.cs.bell-labs.com (plan9.bell-labs.com [204.178.31.2]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02632 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910131703.NAA02632@cse.psu.edu> From: "rob" Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 Local Resources .... Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:03:01 -0400 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Here is the current, recently updated contents of the master file of device characters root / audio A boot B bridge B sac C ssl D mpeg E tinyfs F astar G ata H hard H ip I isdn J conc K lpt L mnt M iproute P arch P icmp Q cdrom R scsi S lm78 T kprof T pri T sdp T usb U lml V voice V tv V cd W alacron X atm a bit b cons c dup d env e floppy f astar g draw i dk k ether l lance l midi m mouse m proc p rtc r srv s ns16552 t z8530 t duart t ns16552 t vga v sd w wren w xsrv x pcmcia y i82365 y intrts z mntstats z pipe | From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:01:18 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21615 for 9fans-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from smtp.fywss.com (84.angoss.com [209.47.149.84] (may be forged)) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21610 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by smtp.fywss.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18781 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:01:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:01:01 -0400 From: Steve Kotsopoulos Message-Id: <199910150401.AAA18781@smtp.fywss.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] [reminder] pointer to Plan 9 FAQ Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu The Plan 9 faq is posted to comp.os.plan9 at the beginning of each month. It is also at news.answers archive sites, look for comp-os/plan9-faq The latest hypertext version of the faq is available at url http://www.fywss.com/plan9/plan9faq.html From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Oct 25 08:42:59 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05123 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:42:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from fw2.softwell.se (fw2.softwell.se [193.15.236.44]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05118 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trillian.softwell.se (IDENT:bengt@trillian.softwell.se [192.42.172.11]) by fw2.softwell.se (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23515 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:40:15 +0200 Received: (from bengt@localhost) by trillian.softwell.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16410 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:40:14 +0200 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:40:14 +0200 From: Bengt Kleberg Message-Id: <199910251240.OAA16410@trillian.softwell.se> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: [9fans] looking for briand, who had the web page http://www.inetarena.com/~briand/scheme_eval.html Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu You used to post to 9fans, and I hope that you might read this. The web page is gone, and I wonder if there is a new address (or I I could ge a copy of it) From owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Mon Oct 25 11:22:40 1999 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09563 for 9fans-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:22:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: claven.cse.psu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-9fans using -f Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za (cackle.proxima.alt.za [196.28.218.141]) by cse.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09556 for <9fans@cse.psu.edu>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lucio@localhost) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA00420 for 9fans@cse.psu.edu; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:25:24 +0200 (SAST) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:25:24 +0200 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] looking for briand, who had the web page http://www.inetarena.com/~briand/scheme_eval.html Message-ID: <19991025172523.B209@cackle.proxima.alt.za> Reply-To: lucio@proxima.alt.za Mail-Followup-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu References: <199910251240.OAA16410@trillian.softwell.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <199910251240.OAA16410@trillian.softwell.se>; from Bengt Kleberg on Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 02:40:14PM +0200 Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu On Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 02:40:14PM +0200, Bengt Kleberg wrote: > > You used to post to 9fans, and I hope that you might read this. > > The web page is gone, and I wonder if there is a new address (or I I could ge a copy of it) I noticed its new address in the monthly reminder. 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